Speaker 1: Hello, lovely neighborhood, and welcome to our Olympic Spotlight series.
Speaker 1: As you will know, we are back recording new episodes
Speaker 1: after our extended ninety two business month hiatus, now that
Speaker 1: mum life is becoming a little bit smoother, but given
Speaker 1: that we find ourselves in the middle of Paris twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four and it is such a special time for
Speaker 1: the whole world. I love the Olympics so much I
Speaker 1: get emotional every time, I thought we'd also do a
Speaker 1: little Olympic re release series. We are so lucky to
Speaker 1: have had so many incredible Olympians as past guests, who
Speaker 1: are also competing right now over in Paris. And while
Speaker 1: our conversations are from a while back, so please mind
Speaker 1: the outdated time references. The essence of this show is
Speaker 1: reflecting on people's different chapters along the way, and I
Speaker 1: thought it would be fascinating to reflect on how far
Speaker 1: they've all come since our last chat, some of which
Speaker 1: were even before the last Olympics in Tokyo. As I
Speaker 1: mentioned last episode, athletes aren't allowed to record from the
Speaker 1: Olympic village and or they can do interviews, but they
Speaker 1: can't do audio and video, and we did have a
Speaker 1: few podcast interviews lined up that we had to postpost,
Speaker 1: which is why we couldn't do catch up episodes with
Speaker 1: these guests. But we do have a future record after
Speaker 1: the Olympics are over, so stay tuned for those in
Speaker 1: the meantime. I hope you are all loving watching along
Speaker 1: and enjoy these throwback listens. Today's guest is absolute legend
Speaker 1: Harry Garside, who we spoke to last after Tokyo twenty
Speaker 1: twenty when he won Australia's first medal in boxing at
Speaker 1: the Olympics in over three decades. He had hoped to
Speaker 1: come back to win Australia's first gold medal in boxing
Speaker 1: this year in Paris, but sadly, just a few days
Speaker 1: ago he lost to Richard Kovacs and was absolutely shatted
Speaker 1: to have to say goodbye to that dream. For this
Speaker 1: round of the Olympics, it's been heart wrenching but also
Speaker 1: so inspiring at the same time to watch Harry go
Speaker 1: through the emotions of heartbreak and those really human feelings
Speaker 1: of failure that I think we forget people at that
Speaker 1: elite level also have. They're just people as well, and
Speaker 1: yet they have to go through those.
Speaker 2: Kind of feelings.
Speaker 1: So publicly, but then he's been able to follow it
Speaker 1: up with some really powerful reflections as he starts to
Speaker 1: kind of orientate himself again. And he has such an
Speaker 1: amazing philosophy on achieving greatness, as you'll hear in this episode,
Speaker 1: and that has continued on in the way that he's
Speaker 1: dealt with everything in the last few days. If anything,
Speaker 1: I kind of think it's almost more inspiring to watch
Speaker 1: someone cope with things when they don't go well than
Speaker 1: when they go exactly to plan. And in his latest
Speaker 1: video on Instagram, he explains that he's just so grateful
Speaker 1: over the past few years, through both the highs and
Speaker 1: the lows on the journey towards his Olympic goals and
Speaker 1: his goals generally in the sport, that he's really learned
Speaker 1: to become his own friend, which is such a beautiful
Speaker 1: and inspiring takeaway. And he just remains now in all
Speaker 1: the press as reflective and articulate as he was during
Speaker 1: our chat. He actually just blew me away with his
Speaker 1: ability to talk through his mentality and his mindset. So
Speaker 1: I hope you guys enjoy listening back to this one
Speaker 1: as much as I did. Busy and Happy are not
Speaker 1: the same thing. We too rarely question what makes the
Speaker 1: heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but rarely we
Speaker 1: play and often don't realize there's more than one way.
Speaker 1: So this is a platform to hear and explore the
Speaker 1: stories of those who found lives they adore, the good,
Speaker 1: bad and ugly. The best and worst day will bear
Speaker 1: all the facets of seizing your yea. I'm Sarah Davidson
Speaker 1: or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned funentrepreneur who
Speaker 1: swapped the suits and heels to co found matcha Maiden
Speaker 1: and matcha Milk bar. Sez the Ya is a series
Speaker 1: of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring
Speaker 1: the self doubt, challenge, joy and.
Speaker 2: Fulfillment along the way.
Speaker 1: Welcome back, Lovely, yeahbehood. I couldn't think of a cooler
Speaker 1: guest to kick off the second half of the year
Speaker 1: with than the legend that I have in store for
Speaker 1: you today. You probably know by now that I get
Speaker 1: so excited by people whose brains tick as crazily and
Speaker 1: as deeply as mine likes to. So I was like
Speaker 1: a kid in a candy store with this guest and
Speaker 1: felt maybe the least articulate that I have in a
Speaker 1: long time. Next year eloquence. I am endlessly fascinated by
Speaker 1: Harry Garside, and seems most of Australia and the world
Speaker 1: shares that view, and not only because he is a
Speaker 1: championship boxer who won the nation's first medal in boxing
Speaker 1: at the Olympics in over three decades in Tokyo. While
Speaker 1: his rise to international success from losing ten out of
Speaker 1: his first eighteen fights at the Humble Lilydell Youth Club
Speaker 1: is also fascinating, I still don't think that's the reason
Speaker 1: always so enamored with him. While Harry's upbringing and beloved
Speaker 1: sport aligned very strongly with traditional ideas about masculinity and strength,
Speaker 1: it's his unique passion for changing those stereotypes that I
Speaker 1: fell in love with, complimenting his training with ballet classes
Speaker 1: and wearing now polished to some of his fights, and
Speaker 1: just when you think you've figured him out, he reveals
Speaker 1: a whole new facet of himself and his view on
Speaker 1: the world. And I could ramble on forever about how
Speaker 1: much it stretched my own mind getting to have this
Speaker 1: conversation with him. I'll let you hear more about it
Speaker 1: for yourself. As he tells so perfectly, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: you'll see from this conversation why. I just think he's
Speaker 1: one of the most fascinating human beings.
Speaker 2: This is one of my.
Speaker 1: Favorite episodes all year, so I hope you enjoy it
Speaker 1: as much as I did. Harry Garside, Welcome to Seize
Speaker 1: the AA.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for having me on.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: As I mentioned, I've been fangirling from Afar and my
Speaker 1: partner Nick has been doing the same. We've followed your
Speaker 1: journey for a while now, and it's so so nice
Speaker 1: to have you on the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm blessed to be on my part. As I
Speaker 3: was saying to you before the show, we're having a
Speaker 3: good stalk of you Instagram last night and we'll love it.
Speaker 1: I'm a total message, an absolute car accident. I love it,
Speaker 1: which leads really nicely to.
Speaker 2: Our little icebreaker.
Speaker 1: Before I get into the first section of the show,
Speaker 1: I like to start every episode just by asking everyone
Speaker 1: what the most down to earth thing is about them
Speaker 1: to break through what can often be a pretty glossy surface,
Speaker 1: especially when you know, we mentioned just before we started
Speaker 1: recording that you've been to the Olympics. You have some
Speaker 1: amazing achievements under your belt, and if people walk into
Speaker 1: your life right now, they often see, you know, a
Speaker 1: really polish side of you, forgetting that there's so much
Speaker 1: else beneath the surface. But I think it's really important
Speaker 1: from the beginning to sort of highlight the things about
Speaker 1: you that are really human and really normal. So what's
Speaker 1: something really relatable about you?
Speaker 3: I think, well, I know more so. I had an
Speaker 3: experience when I was about eight. I think it's about
Speaker 3: at seven or eight, and I was traveling through the
Speaker 3: Northern Territory with my family, and I just remember driving
Speaker 3: through an indigenous community and I was looking out the
Speaker 3: window and there was young kids playing and they're in poverty,
Speaker 3: like very poverty stricken conditions, and I just remember thinking,
Speaker 3: in that moment, what is the difference between me and
Speaker 3: that young kid. Obviously at the time, I was too young,
Speaker 3: I didn't fully understand what was going on. But looking
Speaker 3: back at my life as a twenty four year old,
Speaker 3: I've just never thought that I'm better than anyone. I've
Speaker 3: never and it's a blessing and a curse because it's
Speaker 3: also the thing that made me lose at the Olympics,
Speaker 3: and it's also the thing that, Yeah, so it's a
Speaker 3: blessing and a curse in the sense of, like I've
Speaker 3: never once sort of looked down on people or anything
Speaker 3: like that. And I had that from an early age
Speaker 3: at seven or eight when I was in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 3: And then, as I said, it's a bit of a
Speaker 3: curse as well, going to the Olympics and fighting the
Speaker 3: favorite to win the gold medal and kind of losing
Speaker 3: the fight before I even got in there because I
Speaker 3: didn't fully believe that I was better than him. And yeah,
Speaker 3: so there's two sides of each coin. I'd always try
Speaker 3: my hardest to understand that we're all just human, that's it,
Speaker 3: and doesn't matter where people start in life, but like
Speaker 3: you can always get to where they are, you just
Speaker 3: have to work hard, be consistent. But yeah's and that's
Speaker 3: probably the thing that I think is pretty down to
Speaker 3: worth about me.
Speaker 1: That is one of my favorite answers in like three
Speaker 1: hundred every cents. I think that's so fascinating because I
Speaker 1: think that is one thing that comes across really clearly.
Speaker 1: Like in researching for the episode, I was watching you know,
Speaker 1: your interviews from quite a few different things. Immediately before
Speaker 1: the Olympics just after more and like that real humility
Speaker 1: of like being able to get on other people's level
Speaker 1: and also knowing that you didn't start with a leg up.
Speaker 1: You know we're just talking about before. Like that comes
Speaker 1: through so clearly, but it's also interesting, Like it's so endearing.
Speaker 1: It's what makes the nation love you so much. Like
Speaker 1: I've never thought about the psychology of the competitive edge
Speaker 1: that you lose if you're too humble, Like there's like
Speaker 1: that weird line in the middle where you want to
Speaker 1: always be down to worth, but you also have to
Speaker 1: be able to talk yourself up when you need you.
Speaker 3: That's so interesting an innovation leader. Yeah, so when you're
Speaker 3: with us, just like that could be sorry, yeah it's
Speaker 3: gone now, Like is this a commercial? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I was like, is he answering for you? Is this
Speaker 2: your spokesperson?
Speaker 3: Sorry? Chats?
Speaker 2: That was the best? Oh my god, I love.
Speaker 3: Both so confutered, I was like.
Speaker 2: What is commercial break?
Speaker 1: It's like, no guest has ever brought their own to
Speaker 1: the show, but like, sure, I'm humble, but not that
Speaker 1: I brought my own sponsors with me. That was also
Speaker 1: one amazing start of the episode. I'm totally leaving that
Speaker 1: in Oh, But yeah, I just think I think the
Speaker 1: psychology around that is so interesting. And later on we'll
Speaker 1: get to that whole fine line between like confidence and
Speaker 1: then self doubt and then not being too overconfident, but
Speaker 1: then not selling yourself so short that you can't actually
Speaker 1: perform when you want to, and undervaluing your skills and
Speaker 1: obviously immense talent. But it's so nice. You mentioned before
Speaker 1: we started recording as well, that you know, you came
Speaker 1: from really humble beginnings. Your parents weren't Olympians, you didn't
Speaker 1: come from a background that it immediately makes sense that
Speaker 1: you've gone to the Olympics and competed at.
Speaker 2: Such a high level.
Speaker 1: You you know, don't know anyone who went to None
Speaker 1: of your kind of friends from childhood went to university,
Speaker 1: And I think that too, is like all the obvious
Speaker 1: markers for a really successful climb of the ladder weren't
Speaker 1: necessarily there to begin with, but you've still done it.
Speaker 1: So my first section of every podcast is your wayta,
Speaker 1: which is your pathway tracing back from childhood. To remind
Speaker 1: everyone like it's almost never a smooth journey. It's almost
Speaker 1: never what you expect. It's going to be, but the
Speaker 1: top poids all connect eventually when you look back. So
Speaker 1: take us back to young you, youngest of three boys,
Speaker 1: blokey dad, bit of a softer mum, and like what
Speaker 1: your childhood was like.
Speaker 3: I feel so blessed that I get the opportunity to
Speaker 3: constantly sort of like think about my childhood. This every
Speaker 3: time I do a podcast is almost like a psychology session,
Speaker 3: which which is unreal. So I learned something new every
Speaker 3: time I tell a story. And for me, I was
Speaker 3: really fortunate to be the youngest of three boys and
Speaker 3: always felt super loved and super connected by my family.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I felt quite different to
Speaker 3: my two brothers and of course my dad, and I
Speaker 3: was just a little bit softer to them. They were
Speaker 3: pretty rough around the edges and really good people, really
Speaker 3: kind people. But me personally, I just felt I was
Speaker 3: more connected to my mum's energy and what my mum
Speaker 3: was doing, and I didn't particularly want to do what
Speaker 3: the guys are doing in my family. Every time I
Speaker 3: was sort of doing what they were doing, I sort
Speaker 3: of didn't fully enjoy it, but I was more so
Speaker 3: doing it to fit in. And it's probably half the
Speaker 3: reason I started boxing. As well, and just super fortunate
Speaker 3: that I fell in love with the sport within the
Speaker 3: first week and the places it's taken me in the
Speaker 3: man that I am now because of that, it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 3: But initially I didn't start it because I really wanted to.
Speaker 3: I started it more so to sort of be a man,
Speaker 3: or to prove I was a man and to my
Speaker 3: brothers and my dad.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's so interesting that again, like you think that
Speaker 1: so many boys get into boxing because it is like
Speaker 1: a marker of masculinity, but yours was more to prove
Speaker 1: that you had that, even though that's not necessarily kind
Speaker 1: of like it was like a mask of on the
Speaker 1: outside to fit in. And it's so interesting when we're
Speaker 1: younger how much effort and time and how much of
Speaker 1: our identity goes into just trying to fit in and
Speaker 1: just trying to make sense of like who we are.
Speaker 1: But very very fortunate that you turned out to love
Speaker 1: it so much. And it's interesting that you started at
Speaker 1: such a young age, like nine, and most kids when
Speaker 1: they start something at nine, it's very rare that you.
Speaker 2: Actually go on to do that as a job.
Speaker 1: So how did you progress from like a childhood activity
Speaker 1: to like I'm going to go to the Olympics. Like
Speaker 1: when did that from just stumbling into something to like
Speaker 1: doing really well at it actually happen.
Speaker 3: I feel for me, I was just a sporting fan
Speaker 3: from the age of like six, seven, eight years old,
Speaker 3: so I always wanted to, like your dream of representing
Speaker 3: your country at the biggest event. I always watched the Olympics,
Speaker 3: coming of Games, anything Australia was playing in. I just
Speaker 3: loved sport. And when I started boxing, I didn't fully
Speaker 3: know that you could go to the Olympics for boxing.
Speaker 3: But yeah, as I slowly progress through through the boxing career,
Speaker 3: I'm very fortunate as well that my coach, who's still
Speaker 3: my coach to date, he's eighty years old. He's a
Speaker 3: veteran of the sport, and he sort of just made
Speaker 3: me feel special. He fed me with a lot of love,
Speaker 3: a lot of He says things like, oh, you're so
Speaker 3: naturally gifted. Your footwork is impeccable, and he would say
Speaker 3: things like that and I would feel so good. But
Speaker 3: then looking back now, he pretty much sended you every
Speaker 3: kid that walked into that everything that walks into that gym,
Speaker 3: So I'm known special. I just took it and I
Speaker 3: fully believed it. And I think as well, there's two
Speaker 3: reasons as to why I kept going I wasn't successful
Speaker 3: very early on, but the reasons why I kept going
Speaker 3: back was one because of him. He fed me with
Speaker 3: so much the love and positivity made me feel good
Speaker 3: about myself. And the second is because boxing gave me
Speaker 3: an identity that I always wanted to be sort of
Speaker 3: a tough guy, to prove that I was a man,
Speaker 3: and it gave me that, especially in my primary school
Speaker 3: years and high school years, and I was searching for
Speaker 3: that for a long time and I finally got it.
Speaker 3: And yeah, that's the read. They're the two reasons why
Speaker 3: I think I kept going back and I kept loving it.
Speaker 3: And then also as well, the feeling boxing gives me
Speaker 3: is quite electric as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, if we just had Men's Health Work a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago and we did an episode, we
Speaker 1: do one every year, and the constantly recurring theme is
Speaker 1: this like outdated view of masculinity that has forced so
Speaker 1: many men into really convoluted either behaviors or just ways
Speaker 1: of thinking about their identity and pushes you to do
Speaker 1: certain things and be certain ways when now I think
Speaker 1: it's getting a lot better, and role models like yourself
Speaker 1: who are challenging those stereotypes are amazing and allowing younger
Speaker 1: boys to not necessarily think they always need to be
Speaker 1: this marcho person. But I think you've become an amazing
Speaker 1: role model for breaking down those stereotypes, and I definitely
Speaker 1: want to get to that point. But I think another
Speaker 1: really important thing is also we have this instant gratuity thing.
Speaker 1: Right if we're not winning and we're not good at something,
Speaker 1: straight away, I personally give up pretty easily. Like I
Speaker 1: think I'm resilient, but it's sin or something's a little
Speaker 1: bit hard. I'm like, uh, but it's interesting that you know,
Speaker 1: I've heard you say that you up until kind of
Speaker 1: your teenage years, you'd lost more fights than you'd won.
Speaker 1: You lost ten out of your first eighteen fights at
Speaker 1: Lillardale Youths Club, And even with someone an amazing supporter
Speaker 1: in your corner telling you you're really good, you know,
Speaker 1: most people don't.
Speaker 2: Have the strength to kind of keep going.
Speaker 1: So I think the quote that I really love is
Speaker 1: the idea that life rewards you on your fifth or sixth,
Speaker 1: or ninth or tenth try so never give up, because
Speaker 1: it's probably the time you give up is usually just
Speaker 1: before the one where it's actually going to work. What
Speaker 1: did go through your mind to get you through? What
Speaker 1: gave you your eyes on the prize even when it
Speaker 1: did feel so far away.
Speaker 3: That's a really good question. There's so many things a
Speaker 3: play into that I hate giving up, and I think
Speaker 3: the younger it's a blessing and a curse that as well,
Speaker 3: because there needs to be a time where you actually
Speaker 3: like you need to logically look at something and go wow.
Speaker 3: It's say, in a relationship, is it time to walk away?
Speaker 3: Or is it time to end this friendship? Or you
Speaker 3: mean you've actually got to look at it. And I
Speaker 3: really struggled to do those things. And yeah, I just
Speaker 3: truly wanted to achieve good things in my sport of boxing.
Speaker 3: And there was many people who my family members', close friends,
Speaker 3: even my coach who I love On a door, I
Speaker 3: said a couple of things to me throughout that process
Speaker 3: where it made me really think like am I cut
Speaker 3: out for this? And am I ever going to achieve
Speaker 3: what I want to achieve in my boxing career? And
Speaker 3: there was always just a little boy inside of me
Speaker 3: that truly believes that I could be an astronaut, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. The kids are so that can
Speaker 3: dream so hard, and I still got that inside of
Speaker 3: me now, Like it doesn't happen all the time, and
Speaker 3: it's not as loud as what it was when I
Speaker 3: was a kid, but still there. Like I truly believe
Speaker 3: if I set my mind to something, I can achieve anything.
Speaker 3: And I think that's something that I personally feel the
Speaker 3: younger generations missing out on it. It's not their fault
Speaker 3: in the sense of like, if you want instant money,
Speaker 3: go get crypto NFTs. If you want instant look good,
Speaker 3: go get botox, Go get your tummy tuck. If you
Speaker 3: want it's just instant gratification, go on Instagram and upload
Speaker 3: a photo and edit it heaps. Like everything's so instant,
Speaker 3: And I think even like you get a TV now
Speaker 3: in the last two or three years, you're a TV
Speaker 3: sixty years ago, it probably still last now. Everything's just
Speaker 3: so instant and it's disposable, and I just great things
Speaker 3: take a lot of time. And I'm sure you can
Speaker 3: voucher that I saw in your bio that you're a lawyer,
Speaker 3: like that would have taken a long time, and the
Speaker 3: feeling you get after the six, seven, eight years how
Speaker 3: it took you is amazing. It's electric, and I think
Speaker 3: young people need to understand that it takes a long
Speaker 3: time to get great things.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that is the perfect sound bite for
Speaker 1: this entire show and everything I try and convey that,
Speaker 1: like any climb worth climbing, or any journey worth embarking on,
Speaker 1: is most of the great ones aren't overnight. They might
Speaker 1: look overnight because you only see the tiny tip of
Speaker 1: the mountain, but all the grueling times of rejections and
Speaker 1: setbacks and you know, failures or like failures, even though
Speaker 1: I think like failures are really a learning curve that
Speaker 1: propel you forwards in some way, there's just so much
Speaker 1: that comes before everyone's journey.
Speaker 2: And you're so right about that instagratuity thing.
Speaker 1: Like we were just a couple of weeks ago in
Speaker 1: Egypt for our honeymoon, and I was laughing about how
Speaker 1: like we have to repaint our house every five years
Speaker 1: because like the paint fades, you know, from the sun
Speaker 1: in five years time, These colors that you could see
Speaker 1: on the wall from like five thousand years ago and
Speaker 1: they're still lasting and I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, what has happened to humanity?
Speaker 1: Where we want everything here and now and we don't
Speaker 1: care if it lasts. But the idea of like patience
Speaker 1: and not making one no as like a permanent no.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I think many people, if they had faced more failures
Speaker 1: than wins, you know, that would have been the end
Speaker 1: for them. But if you had let that topple you,
Speaker 1: you never would have found out you could have gone
Speaker 1: to the Olympics. So I think you're such a good
Speaker 1: example of like, just keep going, just keep believing that
Speaker 1: you know, it's worth trying the next tribe because you
Speaker 1: never know when we'll be the try that actually ends
Speaker 1: up getting you to a national championship, to then the
Speaker 1: comm Games, to then the Olympics. And I can't even
Speaker 1: imagine what that was like when that actually happened. So
Speaker 1: what do you think was the turning point? Was it
Speaker 1: a skill thing that you just trained differently? Was it
Speaker 1: I know that you did some work with the Reach Foundation.
Speaker 1: Do you that was twelve months before your first nationals?
Speaker 1: Was that the turning point more mentally than physically? Like,
Speaker 1: what do you think changed?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like it's a it's a cocktail of
Speaker 3: things and Reach is a massive the Reach foundation for
Speaker 3: those people who don't know as a youth organization, and
Speaker 3: they entered my school when I was fifteen sixteen, and
Speaker 3: prior to that I had no success in boxing. And
Speaker 3: then a year after being involved, I finally won my
Speaker 3: first nationals and they gave me the ability to have
Speaker 3: space where I could just explore myself and explore the
Speaker 3: world and stumble for be messy, fuck up and get
Speaker 3: back up again. And I think that's such a valuable
Speaker 3: place for a young person because I'm twenty four and
Speaker 3: I still got no idea who I am, no idea.
Speaker 3: I'm working it out slowly, and especially when I was
Speaker 3: fifteen to sixteen, I had even less of an idea.
Speaker 3: And I just think the space where you can really
Speaker 3: stumble for triumph, experience things is a beautiful space. And
Speaker 3: I'm really fortunate dance my life. And I think as well.
Speaker 3: The ten weeks before my first national win, I remember
Speaker 3: saying to myself, I want to give myself a bit
Speaker 3: of an ultimatum. I said, if I don't win this,
Speaker 3: I need to think about what I'm going to do
Speaker 3: with my future. And I remember I gave ten weeks,
Speaker 3: ten weeks of waking up at a certain time, really
Speaker 3: focusing on showing up in every session, having an intention
Speaker 3: and working my ass off, and then you mean, really
Speaker 3: making sure I was doing everything I possibly could, all
Speaker 3: the one percent is outside of the boxing gym to
Speaker 3: the mindset stuff. And I finally got to my first
Speaker 3: Nationals knowing that I had done everything I could. Fortunately,
Speaker 3: I definitely wasn't the favorite to take that out, and
Speaker 3: I fortunately took it out. And I think it's because
Speaker 3: I didn't turn my back on myself throughout that process.
Speaker 3: You can lie to people, you can lie to your friends,
Speaker 3: you can lie to your family, but you'll never lie
Speaker 3: to yourself. And that's a beautiful place to be is
Speaker 3: when you know you never lied to yourself.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I've never thought about it that way,
Speaker 1: the idea of like not turning your back on yourself.
Speaker 2: We're so focused on how we care for.
Speaker 1: Others our interactions outwardly, but I think, yeah, the internal
Speaker 1: work is what really can make a difference between you
Speaker 1: getting where you want to go and not. And then
Speaker 1: from there on it you just you just propelled to
Speaker 1: Then you know, three years later, the Gold Coast common
Speaker 1: Games and then the twenty twenty Summer Olympics, that childhood
Speaker 1: dream that I imagine felt impossible for so long before
Speaker 1: winning what at the first time an Australian has won
Speaker 1: a medal in boxing in.
Speaker 2: Over three decades.
Speaker 1: Talk us through that, like as the dust settled, how
Speaker 1: do you feel? What was that like actually going to
Speaker 1: the Olympics and from that, you know, twenty fifteen U
Speaker 1: to twenty twenty U. Obviously it was a big like
Speaker 1: narrative change between like having you know, a losing streak
Speaker 1: to suddenly being on this this up and up.
Speaker 2: I read that you got hypnotized before the Olympics.
Speaker 1: You're obviously like very open minded to a really you know,
Speaker 1: all rounded way to prepare yourself for these things. What
Speaker 1: was that five year stretch? Like, I just can't even
Speaker 1: imagine after the start you had to then being like
Speaker 1: our superstar.
Speaker 3: It was a crazy five years. But black looking back,
Speaker 3: I was just really grateful that boxing Australia they gave
Speaker 3: me so many opportunities, so many opportunities to just go.
Speaker 3: So I tried for the real Olympics and miss out
Speaker 3: on two occasions to make the team, and then after
Speaker 3: that it was really like I need to hone in
Speaker 3: on a few things and started really focusing on mindset.
Speaker 3: I put my room. There was about six Australian flags
Speaker 3: in my room. There was Olympic paraphernalia everywhere, all photos
Speaker 3: and it was quite psychotic. It was like like an
Speaker 3: eight year old boys. I didn't like to bring too
Speaker 3: many people over.
Speaker 2: Manifestation.
Speaker 3: I just really started to focus on the mindset stuff.
Speaker 3: And the older generation they like to trash the phone
Speaker 3: use and stuff like that, but I think one of
Speaker 3: the best things about the phone is that everything that
Speaker 3: that finger tips and it's like you get the choice,
Speaker 3: if you're conscious enough, you get the choice of what
Speaker 3: you digest online. All this mindset stuff that I just
Speaker 3: started like looking up online, what did all the greats do?
Speaker 3: What did some people? Don't really like to some people
Speaker 3: who I really got Kerry Pothurst and Natalie Cook, the
Speaker 3: two thousand olympig Beach volleyballers gold medalists, I got a
Speaker 3: lot for. And then every time they went to the
Speaker 3: shops they would buy something gold and gold was is
Speaker 3: always on their mind and people like that. I was
Speaker 3: like really sort of motivated and inspired by it. And
Speaker 3: I slowly but surely changed my mindset and changed my
Speaker 3: belief system from twenty fifteen twenty sixteen and then twenty
Speaker 3: eighteen and of course twenty twenty. But there was a
Speaker 3: lot of ups and downs in that process as well.
Speaker 3: But like something I want to add on what we're
Speaker 3: talking about just before, around the process, Like you fail
Speaker 3: so many times in the process. But I think one
Speaker 3: of the biggest things is if you love what you do.
Speaker 3: Of course we don't want to fail. It sucks, it's
Speaker 3: the worst feeling, it's shit. But if you love what
Speaker 3: you do, like you sort of don't particularly care. It's
Speaker 3: all about the journey and all about the process. Like
Speaker 3: I kind of just really like boxing. I love representing Australia,
Speaker 3: and I love the feeling it gives me. And it's like,
Speaker 3: of course I strive for greatness, but I'm just grateful
Speaker 3: that I get to box in general.
Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting as well that it's the
Speaker 1: mindset you bring to something like a setback that really
Speaker 1: changes the way you cope with it. Like I've sort
Speaker 1: of really trained my brain to see a pain point
Speaker 1: or a setback or and something that would otherwise feel
Speaker 1: like a failure, as like if I immediately look for the
Speaker 1: lesson in that then it's less painful because almost straight
Speaker 1: away you're like, oh this is silver ligning Like, of
Speaker 1: course it's a little bit embarrassing, hurts your ego. But
Speaker 1: if you know what to look for quicker, then the
Speaker 1: pain part of it, it's so instantaneous compared to you know,
Speaker 1: you could wallow, you could let it, you know, control you,
Speaker 1: or consume you for weeks and weeks, or you could go, okay,
Speaker 1: that's done. But actually this failure I'm going to use
Speaker 1: it as a failure forwards and it's going to better me.
Speaker 1: For without the setbacks, you wouldn't actually progress, you'd just
Speaker 1: be cruising along and never learn the things that you
Speaker 1: need to learn to better yourself for next time. So
Speaker 1: I love that you really embrace, like the macro is
Speaker 1: that you love what you do, so all the micro forward, back,
Speaker 1: forward back is like part of part of.
Speaker 2: That journey and all slots in.
Speaker 1: One of the things I think is extraordinary about you
Speaker 1: is you are only twenty four, and of course you've
Speaker 1: had a lifetime worth of experience, but you're also incredibly
Speaker 1: self aware and incredibly well adjusted for someone your age,
Speaker 1: particularly for guys who tend to not necessarily get in
Speaker 1: mass generalization but tend to not get to that real
Speaker 1: self reflection so early. But it seems like you've had
Speaker 1: that curiosity for understanding your mind and your identity and
Speaker 1: looking at things in a less than traditional way and
Speaker 1: experimenting with you know, ballet you started doing in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: and even you know hypnotherapy is quite alternative. Have you
Speaker 1: always been that curious?
Speaker 2: And where do you think you got that from?
Speaker 3: I want to see credit a lot of it for
Speaker 3: my mum. So I'm super blessed that my mum is
Speaker 3: super spiritual. She's a medium, so she talks to dead people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's a media.
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty hectic. So growing up for me, like it
Speaker 3: was a bit. She had tarot cards and crystals and
Speaker 3: all that sort of hall and enjoy sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: And hypno therapy is like level one basic for you.
Speaker 3: No therapy was actually pretty full on though. I woke
Speaker 3: up from it and I was bawling my eyes out.
Speaker 3: I was like, I remember what happened, and I was like,
Speaker 3: it was quite amazing. And that's actually something that I
Speaker 3: love most about myself, and I think I get it
Speaker 3: from my mum, But it's my want and my ability
Speaker 3: to literally try anything. I really don't think there's anything
Speaker 3: that probably someone would stunt me if they're listening to this,
Speaker 3: But I don't think there's much that I couldn't do
Speaker 3: that I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: Try challenge, except.
Speaker 3: Someone's like murder someone. I'm like, I don't want to.
Speaker 1: Just to see what would happen, Like, how would you
Speaker 1: feel let's do a podcast about that. I hear true
Speaker 1: crime podcasts are going really well on the chat, like
Speaker 1: we can totally do one together.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I've always had that, and I just love experiencing things,
Speaker 3: and I'm very philosophical with how I think, and I
Speaker 3: truly believe that this is all quite meaningless, but at
Speaker 3: the same time it's very meaningful. And I truly I'm
Speaker 3: not religious. I honestly believe it's a bit of a
Speaker 3: miserable view, but I think that when we die, that's it,
Speaker 3: and we've only got one sort of life and we
Speaker 3: just got to live in and experience it. And I
Speaker 3: truly think that when we die, that's it. Nothing else happens.
Speaker 3: And me and my dad were talking about this and
Speaker 3: he was like, then, why do you care about what
Speaker 3: you do in this life. And it's like, because it
Speaker 3: makes me feel good. It makes me feel good to
Speaker 3: experience in things. It makes me feel good that we
Speaker 3: have feelings, we have emotions, we have connection. That's a
Speaker 3: beautiful thing and I love waking up and experiencing that.
Speaker 3: But it still doesn't take away from my belief that
Speaker 3: I think this is all quite meaningless, and I think
Speaker 3: there's beauty and humbleness in that.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's definitely another career for you in
Speaker 1: poetry and some kind of eloquent articulation, because actually I
Speaker 1: did hear that you would ash with poetry, so I
Speaker 1: think you're already onto the poetry I did. You're very,
Speaker 1: very articulate. It's also interesting coming back to that whole
Speaker 1: idea of masculinity and stereotypes. I had Bobby Holland Hanton,
Speaker 1: who's been Chris hemsworth stunt double for the last ten
Speaker 1: years on the show, who like, on the outside is
Speaker 1: the epitome of masculinity and traditional like Braun and all
Speaker 1: those kinds of concepts. But his origins were in a
Speaker 1: gymnastics career, and that you know, when he was younger
Speaker 1: wasn't cool then it wasn't cool to and similar to ballet,
Speaker 1: like men inlycrates, like not your typical thing that you
Speaker 1: expect to see, and now that it's led him to
Speaker 1: a career being thought it's considered cool.
Speaker 2: Back then it wasn't.
Speaker 1: And I think when you do things a little bit
Speaker 1: differently or a little bit against the grain, you do
Speaker 1: face a lot of bullying or teasing or just people
Speaker 1: misunderstanding you. But you seem to have always been quite
Speaker 1: comfortable to, like you said, try different things, even if
Speaker 1: they're not what normal dudes your age are doing. How
Speaker 1: did you face like, for example, when you started doing ballet,
Speaker 1: I actually was with the Australian Ballet in a past life,
Speaker 1: so I was very very out to watch the video
Speaker 1: footage if you're doing Clia's at the bar. It made
Speaker 1: me so happy. But I've been flying the flag for
Speaker 1: years that like, no one has a better physique and
Speaker 1: longer endurance and muscle strength than ballerinas. But there's still
Speaker 1: that sort of like preconception that it's for girls only.
Speaker 2: So when you do do something new, do you face criticism?
Speaker 2: How do you deal with that?
Speaker 1: How do you push through and just be like, look,
Speaker 1: I'm curious about it. I'm not threatened in my masculinity
Speaker 1: about it, Like, how can you encourage younger boys to
Speaker 1: not be so conditioned by what traditional masculinity looks like.
Speaker 3: That's a really good question, because I must submit through
Speaker 3: through most of my high school years, Like I would
Speaker 3: try some of this stuff outside of school, or I
Speaker 3: would do things outside of school where no one was
Speaker 3: really watching or no one really knew what I was doing.
Speaker 3: I would I would think, I would ponder, I would
Speaker 3: climb trees, but at school, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't.
Speaker 3: I would go to school, and I was part of
Speaker 3: the cool group. I was always part of the cool group.
Speaker 3: And there's something about when you're young, you don't want
Speaker 3: to feel like you're not a part of the tribe.
Speaker 3: You want to feel like it. You want to feel
Speaker 3: like you're part of the community. You don't want to
Speaker 3: be the outcast is the worst feeling. I was pretty
Speaker 3: scared to show my true authentic colors when I was
Speaker 3: in high school. I must have met. Even after Reach,
Speaker 3: I slowly but surely started to unpack a little bit
Speaker 3: more and started to have a bit more confidence to
Speaker 3: show my mates. It was more so after high school though,
Speaker 3: where I started to you would just be like, like, honestly,
Speaker 3: what does it matter if someone doesn't like what I
Speaker 3: do with my life. It's almost like a like, I
Speaker 3: don't like to criticize people. It's a bit of a
Speaker 3: projection of their own stuff. And it's like, as long
Speaker 3: as I'm not hurting anyone else, like me wearing a skirt,
Speaker 3: some of the backlash that I got from that, me
Speaker 3: doing ballet, some of the comments I get from that,
Speaker 3: And it's just like, why do you care so much
Speaker 3: about what I do in my life? And it's I'm
Speaker 3: having fun. I'm not hurting anyone. I just don't understand that,
Speaker 3: and it's sad. I actually I feel for them, I
Speaker 3: genuinely do, because maybe they feel like they wish they
Speaker 3: had the chance to experience with every they are and
Speaker 3: I actually feel for them because I have the confidence
Speaker 3: to do that, and I wish they had it too,
Speaker 3: because they would feel amazing if they could just really
Speaker 3: and whether it be ballet or wearing a skirt, whatever
Speaker 3: it is, if they could just experience some things that
Speaker 3: they really want to do without the fear of judgment,
Speaker 3: they would feel so much better.
Speaker 2: I believe totally.
Speaker 1: It's interesting you said that that, like without the fear
Speaker 1: of judgment. I often say to people in like a
Speaker 1: career context, or trying something new, or starting a business
Speaker 1: or learning a new skill, whatever it is, when we're
Speaker 1: talking about the idea of fear of failure, I'm like,
Speaker 1: what if you knew you could fail, Like, you could
Speaker 1: try something, you wouldn't be good at it, and you'd fail,
Speaker 1: but no one would ever know about it?
Speaker 2: Would you be scared anymore?
Speaker 1: And most of the time they're like no, So I'm like,
Speaker 1: you're not scared of failing. You don't think that if
Speaker 1: you failed you'd be a worse person. You're scared of
Speaker 1: people knowing that you failed. You're scared of looking silly,
Speaker 1: not feeling silly, looking silly, which means it's like such
Speaker 1: a useless fear, Like it's not related to anything. It's
Speaker 1: this intangible thing about people's opinions that you don't care
Speaker 1: about anyway, And it's so liberating when you let go
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 3: So I could not agree more. And I was thinking
Speaker 3: about this the other day. I was actually said this
Speaker 3: to my partner. I was saying, like, I'm a little
Speaker 3: bit concerned, and I'm very optimistic. I must've been. I'm
Speaker 3: very much glass half full type guy. But there is,
Speaker 3: of course I think pretty full on about the world.
Speaker 3: And I think right now, I think we think we're
Speaker 3: teaching young people almost narcissistic tendencies in the sense of
Speaker 3: like it's very much I I deserve my happiness. I
Speaker 3: want to feel instant gratification. It's and I think human history,
Speaker 3: the reason as to why we are where we are
Speaker 3: is because we all worked collectively most of the time.
Speaker 3: And I think and I think we've got to slowly
Speaker 3: teach young people that it's actually really important to be
Speaker 3: part of society and be kind to people and treat
Speaker 3: people with respect and help your neighbor out and some
Speaker 3: things that I feel like we're kind of losing because
Speaker 3: everyone's kind of at war on these social media platforms
Speaker 3: and it's like, I just don't know. Like, as I said,
Speaker 3: I'm quite optimistic about the future, but at the same time,
Speaker 3: just a little bit concerned about young people not learning
Speaker 3: valuable things around community and connection. And yeah, that's just
Speaker 3: a little that was a bit off topic.
Speaker 2: But no, I totally agree with you. I talk about
Speaker 2: it all the time.
Speaker 1: And I think having had ballet as a real grounding community,
Speaker 1: like I think the role that religion once played in community,
Speaker 1: or that like ethnicities, certain celebrations around ethnicities played. We're
Speaker 1: losing that connection because you know, the role of religion
Speaker 1: and the role of things like that are fading slowly
Speaker 1: in this day and age, but we're not replacing them
Speaker 1: with anything, which is I think why kids who do
Speaker 1: a sport, team, sport, or individual, but who are part
Speaker 1: of something, it gives them a belonging that like grounds
Speaker 1: them through their younger years. And I think the kids
Speaker 1: who don't have that, and also don't have a religion
Speaker 1: or any kind of like connection to something, that's where
Speaker 1: you start.
Speaker 2: To get really lost.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to find your identity because there's not
Speaker 1: a consistence, safe, grounded place. And I think that's why,
Speaker 1: like whatever sport or whatever activity it is, whether it's
Speaker 1: music or whatever, I want my kids to do some
Speaker 1: kind of thing that gives them a community, because that
Speaker 1: gives you the safety to like figure out who you
Speaker 1: are even if you don't keep doing that sport, and
Speaker 1: you know later in your life, it gives you discipline,
Speaker 1: it gives you like belonging, working with others, learning about
Speaker 1: managing yourself, time management, all of those things that you
Speaker 1: get from whether it's sport or music or just just
Speaker 1: having a hobby.
Speaker 3: Yeah. One of my biggest role models is Da Khana.
Speaker 3: I truly love everything she's about. She's a Muslim journalist
Speaker 3: and she spent time on the front lines with white
Speaker 3: supremacists and then in another series to Hardest and she
Speaker 3: says the biggest seeing the reason we all think that
Speaker 3: they're really bad people, and she articulates it very well
Speaker 3: and I highly recommend people looking her up d Ya Khan,
Speaker 3: But she articulates it. The reasons to why those people,
Speaker 3: they're usually young young men, usually join these things is
Speaker 3: because of love. Because they want connection, They want someone
Speaker 3: to care about them. And it's like she says, if
Speaker 3: we can create systems that are more positive, where they
Speaker 3: feel accepted, feel heard, feel cared about, they wouldn't need
Speaker 3: to go to these extreme organizations that are pretty full
Speaker 3: of you mean, they would have something And it's just like,
Speaker 3: that's why I think, like community youth centers, the larn
Speaker 3: Our Youth Club that I grew up in, they're so
Speaker 3: valuable and so important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, and that was a big part of
Speaker 1: the discussions for Men's Health Week, but around mental health
Speaker 1: in particular, was starting from really young age, but getting
Speaker 1: boys connected in with something, some kind of purpose or
Speaker 1: something to keep them safe and to keep them feeling
Speaker 1: like they belong it. It's all like the key what
Speaker 1: are they the five key basic human needs, and one
Speaker 1: of them is belonging. You need to feel like you
Speaker 1: belong to something, otherwise everything else does to fall out
Speaker 1: of place. And I think you've become such an amazing
Speaker 1: role model for that, not just belonging, but belonging, not
Speaker 1: just by emulating what everyone else is doing. Like you're plumber.
Speaker 1: You know, you're a boxer. In many ways, you tick
Speaker 1: a lot of boxes that make it easy for you
Speaker 1: to fit in.
Speaker 2: But I love that.
Speaker 1: Also you're like, yeah, but fuck it, I'm going to
Speaker 1: do ballet, I'm gonna wear naw polish, I'm gonna wear skirts.
Speaker 1: Like that confuses a lot of people because you're like,
Speaker 1: on one side of you the typical male, and then
Speaker 1: on the other side you're like, but but nah, Like
Speaker 1: I'm just going to do these these other incongruent things.
Speaker 1: But that's why I think it's really powerful, because you're
Speaker 1: not one or the other. You know, if you were
Speaker 1: just doing the nail polish and skirts, it would make
Speaker 1: it easy for a lot of men to switch off
Speaker 1: to you because they'd be like, oh, well, he's not
Speaker 1: like me. But because you can also be the blokey bloke,
Speaker 1: You've got this like power to just be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can have both, and I'm comfortable with that.
Speaker 2: It's amazing and I look Alie.
Speaker 3: Generally. The more that I talk to people, the more
Speaker 3: that I understand that. I think most humans, if not all,
Speaker 3: I like that too. We're kind of walking contradictions and
Speaker 3: we love it. We love things but then also love
Speaker 3: something that is the polar opposite, and that's okay, you
Speaker 3: don't have to. And I understand. I've thought about it.
Speaker 3: Why I think human stereotype or why we generalize, and
Speaker 3: I think it's to save energy. It's to conserve energy.
Speaker 3: It makes it easier in our brain to decipher, Okay,
Speaker 3: this person does this, Okay, they're going to most likely
Speaker 3: be like that. And I understand that we do that
Speaker 3: and understand why we do it. But it's like, I
Speaker 3: truly believe that if you just let everyone live freely
Speaker 3: and everyone live without social construction, Like, the world would
Speaker 3: be some crazy place. People will be doing the most
Speaker 3: weird and wonderful things, and I think that would be
Speaker 3: beautiful to watch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my gosh, you have one of those brains
Speaker 1: that I just want to create. You're like my favorite
Speaker 1: kind of guess. Your brain is just so oh interesting,
Speaker 1: Like I just want to crawl in there and look
Speaker 1: think about all the ways you're thinking. You know, it's fascinating.
Speaker 1: And I think in a very similar way, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I truly think that the more different things you try,
Speaker 1: whether you're crap at them or not, like who cares,
Speaker 1: you don't have to win it everything. The more things
Speaker 1: you try, every time you try something new, you find
Speaker 1: a new piece of your personality. Like, even if it's
Speaker 1: a piece, it's like, I actually don't like that activity,
Speaker 1: that's a new piece. And like, the most open minded,
Speaker 1: broadly skilled and interesting people are the people who've tried
Speaker 1: lots of random shit and kept going with some of
Speaker 1: it and haven't with other things. But you're just such
Speaker 1: a fascinating human. But I also love that at the
Speaker 1: same time, you've been able to have this honed in
Speaker 1: focus on now coming back for Paris, twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: So back to boxing. Amidst all this reflection, how are
Speaker 1: you training? Do you box every day? Like how do
Speaker 1: you your poor body must just feel thrashed all the time.
Speaker 1: And where does the ballet fit in? Like, you know,
Speaker 1: how are you preparing?
Speaker 3: Yeah, boxing takes up a lot of my time. It's
Speaker 3: saying that though I trained twice a day, it sounds
Speaker 3: like a lot. There's a lot of free time to
Speaker 3: just wrap with cover, listen to podcasts, to do my
Speaker 3: own sort of stuff. I like to do ballet once
Speaker 3: a week. I do travel a lot, so sometimes I'm
Speaker 3: not able to do it once a week, but it's
Speaker 3: usually once a week. And I'm just the time peer
Speaker 3: because I've got a lot of free time. I've got
Speaker 3: a lot of time to think and I really enjoy.
Speaker 2: That ponder in a tree.
Speaker 3: Someone said this to me, it's called mental masturbation, and
Speaker 3: I think that that's I think that's what I do.
Speaker 3: I'm like, that is such a good point. So I
Speaker 3: constantly do something that.
Speaker 2: I love it amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of my time, Like I must admit,
Speaker 3: it's like it's dedicated to a goal, and I must
Speaker 3: admit I feel a little bit lost if I don't
Speaker 3: have a bit of a direction and I'm going in
Speaker 3: like I do understand that after a fight there is
Speaker 3: one or two weeks we need to relax, recover, not
Speaker 3: have anything insight. Did that lasts for more than a month,
Speaker 3: I'm losing my I noticed my mental clarity and mental
Speaker 3: stability starts to sort of like falter, and I really
Speaker 3: need focused direction. I'm very aware of my personality and
Speaker 3: it's very extreme. So there's all these positive things that yes,
Speaker 3: we're talking about right now, and I am all for this,
Speaker 3: and I am also messy, dark, got trauma, as we
Speaker 3: all do, some things that I'm navigating some things I'm
Speaker 3: not proud of, and just understanding that if I don't
Speaker 3: have direction, if I don't have focus, it could go
Speaker 3: in a really bad direction. So I'm very aware of
Speaker 3: that and I have been for a very long time.
Speaker 1: I think that's something that's also really great about you,
Speaker 1: is that, I mean, to the extent that you're comfortable
Speaker 1: to talk about it. There's a part of this podcast
Speaker 1: it's all about that, the n ATA, all the things
Speaker 1: that get in the way of your joy. Because there's
Speaker 1: so much of that conversation that never makes it to
Speaker 1: the surface because it's so much like the Olympics and
Speaker 1: how you going, how are you training? And mindset and
Speaker 1: ballet and you know, so many headlines are the ballet
Speaker 1: dancing plumber becomes a boxing Olympian, which is amazing. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's so wonderful, But I'm sure there's so much shit
Speaker 1: that you would want other people trying to emulate what
Speaker 1: you're doing to understand that it's not all positives, it's
Speaker 1: not all those headlines. You know, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff that goes on behind the scenes to get you here.
Speaker 1: So whatever you're comfortable talking about, what are some of
Speaker 1: the big things that challenge you? And I think a
Speaker 1: really active mind does open you up to such deep pondering.
Speaker 1: But also like our brains are dark places because the
Speaker 1: spectrum is broader, I think, which means the highers are higher,
Speaker 1: but the lowers can be lower as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, It's something that I realized pretty early on
Speaker 3: before I started boxing, that my brain was quite unique
Speaker 3: and full on and active, we'll just say active and
Speaker 3: boxing busy, always on. No, when I started boxing, I
Speaker 3: was pretty tired. I was pretty exhausted, and that's what
Speaker 3: physical exercise has always given me. It's given me space
Speaker 3: and my thoughts and not be as loud. It's given
Speaker 3: me time for me to be a little bit more
Speaker 3: tired and me to have a good sleep. And I
Speaker 3: noticed when I'm not training that my thoughts are a
Speaker 3: little bit wilder and it's a little bit less to control.
Speaker 3: But with the dark things inside of me. It's like
Speaker 3: I truly believe that most, if not all, successful people,
Speaker 3: they've all got something that's driving them, and whether that
Speaker 3: be something that happened when they were really young, whether
Speaker 3: that be generational, whether that be something someone said to
Speaker 3: them in their teenage years, whatever it is. For me,
Speaker 3: I always felt mine was. People often criticize me and
Speaker 3: criticize my family, and a lot of I'll be completely honest,
Speaker 3: a lot of what I do is out of spite.
Speaker 3: A lot of what I do is to sick the
Speaker 3: middle finger up to the people who didn't believe in
Speaker 3: me and believe in my family. And that's a nasty
Speaker 3: place to be as well, because it's like, am I
Speaker 3: doing it because I love the sport, or am I
Speaker 3: doing it to make my family proud? And telling those
Speaker 3: people to f off who criticize my family, and I
Speaker 3: do think about that sometimes also, like I've been battling
Speaker 3: addiction for my whole life, and I'm just I'm fortunate
Speaker 3: that my addiction is socially accepted. It causes just as
Speaker 3: much pain as what other addiction does. It's just socially
Speaker 3: accepted and people celebrate you for it, so it's different
Speaker 3: and you don't get as much help. So I'm fortunate
Speaker 3: that I'm aware of it, and I'm conscious of it,
Speaker 3: and I know that if I wasn't doing boxing or
Speaker 3: something else, it could be something negative. There's almost been
Speaker 3: like a bit of a balance in my head of
Speaker 3: like success boxing, focus on that addiction, and there's also
Speaker 3: always been something else here to sort of balance it out,
Speaker 3: something more dark and gloomy, and whether that be substance
Speaker 3: use when I was younger, whether that be other things, validation, gambling.
Speaker 3: At some point, there's always been something else there balancing
Speaker 3: me out, and I've just watched, like the more conscious
Speaker 3: I've become, it's like I will be like, no, I'm
Speaker 3: not going to gamble, and then another addiction will come up,
Speaker 3: something to balance it out, Yeah, and I won't notice
Speaker 3: it straight away, but then I'll be like, wait, I'll
Speaker 3: be spending more time on social media, I'll be posting more,
Speaker 3: I'll be caring about the how many likes I'm getting.
Speaker 3: Or as I said, when I was younger, there was substance,
Speaker 3: and there's just many things that I notice to sort
Speaker 3: of counterbalance the success and ambition, addiction and obsession. There's
Speaker 3: a like the dark area that like no one really
Speaker 3: talks about it, and it's something that I'm trying to
Speaker 3: navigate because I don't want to finish sport, especially when
Speaker 3: I have kids, and be lost and be messy and
Speaker 3: not have control of it. And that's why I'm grateful
Speaker 3: that I'm navigating it now at twenty four and not
Speaker 3: at thirty five.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's incredible that you are self aware enough
Speaker 1: to even identify your own patterns at such a young age.
Speaker 1: Like twenty four year old me was like, I don't
Speaker 1: even like such a mess and just like I would
Speaker 1: run away from my thoughts. I wouldn't sit with them
Speaker 1: like I can now and work through them so they're
Speaker 1: not don't become toxic. I would run as fast as
Speaker 1: I could and then just be burnt out all the time.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating that you're able to do it now, like
Speaker 1: at twenty four, it's amazing. So I mean, good on
Speaker 1: you for even being able to identify addictive behaviors let
Speaker 1: alone go and get help for them. How do you
Speaker 1: kind of interrupt those cycles? Do you see help? You know,
Speaker 1: external help? Do you just deal with it internally? Like
Speaker 1: how do you try and interrupt those cycles or just
Speaker 1: you know, make sure that you're you're keeping on top
Speaker 1: of yourself, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a mixture of internal and external help.
Speaker 3: So internal I'm very self conscious, and you don't always
Speaker 3: win the battle with yourself. But the feeling of like
Speaker 3: like I said to my partner, like I wouldn't gamble
Speaker 3: for a certain amount of time and I haven't done it,
Speaker 3: and it's like that's a good feeling, and it doesn't
Speaker 3: always work, Like you can say something to yourself but
Speaker 3: I'm not going to do it, and then you're in
Speaker 3: you go and do it, and it's like, I think
Speaker 3: it's more so that I just I crave feeling and
Speaker 3: this is a messy part of me and something that
Speaker 3: I'm I don't understand what direction you go in, And
Speaker 3: I'm in the sense of like a crave feeling alive
Speaker 3: and often and boxing makes me feel alive. Extreme things
Speaker 3: make me feel alive. And the more that you go
Speaker 3: to the Olympics, the more you do massive things in
Speaker 3: your sport, that's probably one of the most alive feelings
Speaker 3: you can feel. And it's like life kind of feels
Speaker 3: a little bit boring, and I think as well, drug
Speaker 3: use does that. It's like you're experiencing this world with
Speaker 3: substance and feeling and emotion, and then also you come
Speaker 3: back to normal and it's like life isn't as bright.
Speaker 3: That makes sense, and it's weird. It's very strange. And
Speaker 3: I always notice I feel so much clearer and so
Speaker 3: much better when I'm just I think it's more consistent.
Speaker 3: It doesn't go as high and it doesn't go as low.
Speaker 3: But when I'm not in an addiction, in an addictive state,
Speaker 3: because the addiction will send you up high and then
Speaker 3: it will also send you really low. When I'm not
Speaker 3: in an addiction, I notice it's just more consistent. It's
Speaker 3: all as high, but it's also not as low. And yeah,
Speaker 3: but I think I'm grateful that I've got a lot
Speaker 3: of people around me who are very aware of me.
Speaker 3: My partner is so supportive of me, and that's probably
Speaker 3: one of the areas where I've shoveled the most of
Speaker 3: my life is a partner. And I'm just really grateful
Speaker 3: that my partner is super patient and she's open to
Speaker 3: however I show up, and she's willing and she's wanting
Speaker 3: to grow with me. So yeah, I'm very grateful that
Speaker 3: she entered my life about a year ago.
Speaker 2: You would her with poetry of.
Speaker 1: I'm so incredibly grateful that you are willing to be
Speaker 1: so open about that side of yourself. Particularly, I think
Speaker 1: it's easier to talk about something when you're through it,
Speaker 1: like when you're completely through the other end. So people
Speaker 1: often talk about burnout or addiction cycles when they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: back ten years ago, but I've been fine since now.
Speaker 1: But in the throes of it, for you to actually
Speaker 1: share what it feels like and to explain those highs
Speaker 1: and lows, I think one of the reasons why people
Speaker 1: don't identify it earlier is because they don't hear anyone
Speaker 1: talk about it. They don't no one talks about this
Speaker 1: stuff because it's you know, there's shame, there's stigma, there's
Speaker 1: embarrassment or people just don't know how.
Speaker 2: To articulate it.
Speaker 1: So the fact that you're willing to explain is it
Speaker 1: just shines so much light on what others might be
Speaker 1: going through or for other partners whose partners are going
Speaker 1: through it. You know, the more that we have these conversations,
Speaker 1: I've never actually heard someone talk about a gambling addiction.
Speaker 1: I know it happens, I know it can be incredibly destructive,
Speaker 1: but you know, if you haven't experienced that, it's so
Speaker 1: easy to just default to like just don't do it,
Speaker 1: like just don't spend your money, like as if it's
Speaker 1: not you know, a psychological cycle that you get in,
Speaker 1: Like it's not that simple. And I think you explaining
Speaker 1: the high and the hit that you get from that
Speaker 1: because everything else doesn't compare in that moment. That's that's
Speaker 1: enormously insightful and that and no one can imagine what
Speaker 1: it's like to go to the Olympics and then have
Speaker 1: to wait four years if you can go back at all,
Speaker 1: to get that same Like that's the pinnacle. If you've
Speaker 1: lived up there, how are you supposed to live for
Speaker 1: the four years in between before the next one? That
Speaker 1: no one really talks about.
Speaker 3: That No, that's yeah, that's the thing that it's like,
Speaker 3: I always think that I'll be super ambitious of striving
Speaker 3: for meeting connection extreme things. I understand that's part of
Speaker 3: my personality, but yeah, like I often feel like when
Speaker 3: I'm fifty, it's like, my body is not going to
Speaker 3: be like it is now at twenty four, Like how
Speaker 3: is it going to hold out? What's what's going to
Speaker 3: give me that rush, what's going to give me that thing,
Speaker 3: or what's going to make me feel alive? And it
Speaker 3: is something that is concerning. But as I said, I'm
Speaker 3: fortunate that I'm thinking about it now at twenty four
Speaker 3: and not at forty or when it's too late, so
Speaker 3: I mustn't be. I do put a lot of things
Speaker 3: in place, and I think it's from my dad. My
Speaker 3: dad's always thought about the future, and he's very much
Speaker 3: like living in the future and he's like, Okay, we've
Speaker 3: got to save enough money so I can't work forever.
Speaker 3: And it's very much like that, and I think he's
Speaker 3: instilled that in me as well. It's very much forward planning,
Speaker 3: almost too much, and it's like you're not actually really
Speaker 3: living in the moment. You're just like, hey, what's next.
Speaker 1: Yeah, again, that's that other area where it's like fine
Speaker 1: line between present and mindful, but also like you know,
Speaker 1: you need to have like a job tomorrow so you
Speaker 1: can eat.
Speaker 3: It's kind of important.
Speaker 2: But I think that's another thing.
Speaker 1: Like my husband had the same thing when he got injured,
Speaker 1: Like he did his acl like three times and he
Speaker 1: stopped running very abruptly, And there was so much sports
Speaker 1: psychology inside of the sport, but once you quit, there
Speaker 1: was nothing like and maybe it's I'm sure it's better now.
Speaker 2: This was like a decade ago.
Speaker 1: But he found that transition from a life where everything
Speaker 1: is about winning and like silver and bronze is a
Speaker 1: loss to like trying to translate into a life where
Speaker 1: there are no gold medals in life, like you just
Speaker 1: have you have a good, happy life and nothing has
Speaker 1: to be gold all the time, and you can still
Speaker 1: have a great life. Like we're not running a raise.
Speaker 1: We're all living different lives. And he found it really
Speaker 1: difficult to like to feel happy and to feel fulfilled
Speaker 1: because yeah, if he got anything that resembled a silver
Speaker 1: in like at the bakery or like you know, in
Speaker 1: normal life activities, he'd be like, my life's shit, I'm
Speaker 1: shit everything, shit, what's the point of life? And I
Speaker 1: think it's amazing that you've got a career as well
Speaker 1: that isn't competitive. That's just like allows you to build
Speaker 1: skills and you know, build for a future, that allows
Speaker 1: you a break from that, like a type let's win
Speaker 1: kind of thing, like are you plumbing at the moment?
Speaker 1: Do you do it on the side and do you
Speaker 1: find that's a nice release from that kind of competitive nature?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely. I always just Peter Bowle, who was a
Speaker 3: meter runner at the Olympics, he said this one comment
Speaker 3: like we're all we're all just humid at the end
Speaker 3: of the day. And I truly think that, like, although
Speaker 3: of course absolutely I went to the Olympics for boxing,
Speaker 3: but at the end of the day, like I'm just
Speaker 3: like my brother who's a plumber and every time I'm
Speaker 3: back in Melbourne, always give you a hand helping him out.
Speaker 3: And I'm pretty useless on the tools, but I try
Speaker 3: my best, and I think it's so important. I think
Speaker 3: it's really important to just like, I don't know, I
Speaker 3: never think that you're above someone. But then also at
Speaker 3: the same time, something that I'm trying to work on
Speaker 3: is I never think you're above someone, but then also
Speaker 3: looking at someone who you strive to be, like, never
Speaker 3: think that you can't be that.
Speaker 1: Actually you mentioned that at start, How are you going
Speaker 1: to do that differently in Paris? Like you mentioned you
Speaker 1: had lost before you even turned up last time? Is
Speaker 1: that because you'd psyched yourself out, like because you were like,
Speaker 1: I don't belong here or I am I'm not going to?
Speaker 1: Like what are you changing to turn up in Paris
Speaker 1: and not have that?
Speaker 3: So there's a few things I've been working on in
Speaker 3: this sense of life for so long. So I only
Speaker 3: found this out recently about myself. For so long, I
Speaker 3: kept saying on podcasts or every time I spoke at
Speaker 3: my story, it's like I just felt I wasn't good enough.
Speaker 3: And then I thought about this. I've seen my life
Speaker 3: coach through about six months, and we realized together that
Speaker 3: in the moments where at the age of twelve, when
Speaker 3: I lost my first fight, the reason why I went back,
Speaker 3: it's because I truly believe that I could do it,
Speaker 3: or else I wouldn't have went back, or else I
Speaker 3: wouldn't even try it. And it's like, for so long
Speaker 3: I kept telling myself that maybe I'm not good enough,
Speaker 3: and it's like, no, you've started this, so obviously you
Speaker 3: believe that you are good enough, or obviously wouldn't have
Speaker 3: even tried so. And it's just like I'm just trying
Speaker 3: to change the tone of how I talk about myself,
Speaker 3: talk to myself. It's like even little things when I'm training.
Speaker 3: I'll be training, it's like, oh, like it does get
Speaker 3: me to new levels I've been training. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 3: that's not good enough, go up, go up higher in
Speaker 3: the treadmill, and you're like you're pushing, but it's like
Speaker 3: encouraging myself more. It's like, mate, that's awesome, right, let's
Speaker 3: go one more. Come on, you can do this. It's
Speaker 3: just like changing that tone. And I think that could
Speaker 3: unlock because I think a lot of my life has
Speaker 3: been lived in scarcity and fear, where I think in
Speaker 3: love and abundance, especially in those areas, it's only going
Speaker 3: to propel me forward. I believe so true.
Speaker 1: I think the most important conversations you ever have are
Speaker 1: with yourself, and some people really underestimate the fact that, like,
Speaker 1: well it's in my own brain, like what I'm saying
Speaker 1: to myself, how could that possibly make a difference no
Speaker 1: one else can even hear it. I think you hear
Speaker 1: that more than you hear what anyone else tells you.
Speaker 1: So switching that could.
Speaker 2: Be the mo powerful thing you ever do.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I'm so excited to watch you head
Speaker 1: to barrass. So the very last section is where we
Speaker 1: kind of you know, we've talked a lot about identity,
Speaker 1: and it's where we strip back the identity that most
Speaker 1: people know you as, and often most of the time
Speaker 1: it's the identity that you know and you've constructed for
Speaker 1: yourself as well, and just talk about what brings you joy.
Speaker 1: That's totally separate to boxing, that's totally separate to what
Speaker 1: you're passionate about. That's totally separate to breaking down stereotypes
Speaker 1: about masculinity.
Speaker 2: But it's just purely for fun.
Speaker 1: And often it's things that are not related to anything.
Speaker 1: You don't have to be good at it, but it's
Speaker 1: just the things. I kind of define it as those
Speaker 1: activities that make you forget what time it is when
Speaker 1: you're in a child comes out and you're just like
Speaker 1: just having a great time.
Speaker 2: What are the play like ways you play.
Speaker 3: In your life? Yeah, that's the bit I actually listen
Speaker 3: to a podcast about this recently, and it's like, clay
Speaker 3: is one of the most important things. That's why I like,
Speaker 3: you look at kids and this so like just they're
Speaker 3: just in their own zone, and I think we lose
Speaker 3: as adults. And for me, I've noticed this more so
Speaker 3: to try and combat how I am in a relationship
Speaker 3: because I've really been unsuccessful in my past relationships and
Speaker 3: something it's because I get quite dependent and reliant on
Speaker 3: my partner and she's a social butterfly, loves going out.
Speaker 3: But then also as well, I've realized that I need
Speaker 3: to have my own things.
Speaker 1: And oh, you're a stage five clinger.
Speaker 3: I am. I've been working on it very hard, but
Speaker 3: I still am.
Speaker 2: You're like little amabor that, but just.
Speaker 3: Trying to find those things that I really enjoy, and
Speaker 3: those things are rock climbing, bouldering. I absolutely love it
Speaker 3: the best. And for me, the whole world kind of
Speaker 3: stops and time goes out the window and I'm just
Speaker 3: focusing on the wall and I'm pretty bad at it.
Speaker 3: So you're progressing quick. So surfing as well is something
Speaker 3: that I really love. I think the reasons as to
Speaker 3: why I love those two things it's because just like boxing,
Speaker 3: it's quite humbling. Like one, you're never bigger than the ocean.
Speaker 3: Ocean always wins, and I'm so bad at rock climbing
Speaker 3: that really humbles me. So I think that's a beautiful thing,
Speaker 3: is doing things that you're really bad at and you're like, well,
Speaker 3: I want to try and beat this wall, or I
Speaker 3: want to try and get on this wave, And there
Speaker 3: are two places where I really find a lot of
Speaker 3: joy and peace and play.
Speaker 1: I think it's also almost always activities that you can't
Speaker 1: they're mutually exclusive with doing anything else, like they consume
Speaker 1: your whole being. And it's usually because like you choose
Speaker 1: things that you shit at because if you're good at them,
Speaker 1: and you just co through them and you'll be able
Speaker 1: to be on your phone at the same time, like
Speaker 1: you can't serf and be on your phone.
Speaker 2: So I love that.
Speaker 1: It's usually like if you can't use your phone, it's
Speaker 1: a good play to It's so true. Just to finish up,
Speaker 1: second last question is three interesting things about you that
Speaker 1: don't normally come up in conversation. And as you said,
Speaker 1: you're a bit of an open book, so this is.
Speaker 2: A hard one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I found this one hard, but I wrote a
Speaker 3: little list. There's four and you can pull. I much
Speaker 3: mention all of them, to be honest, But Olympics not
Speaker 3: living up to what I hoped. That's something that I've
Speaker 3: been navigating lately, as.
Speaker 2: In the result or the overall experience.
Speaker 3: A bit of both. And obviously I don't know because
Speaker 3: I've never been in Olympics, but I don't know if
Speaker 3: it's because of the COVID, I don't know what it was.
Speaker 3: And also for me when I was in the actual games,
Speaker 3: I'm focusing purely on results. I'm there for business. I'm
Speaker 3: not there to really soak up the experience and go
Speaker 3: to the dining hall or I'm there to compete. I'm
Speaker 3: there to win that gold medal. And so because of that,
Speaker 3: I'm not going out socializing really taking it in. I
Speaker 3: was more so just focusing on what I could focus on,
Speaker 3: and I spent a lot of my time in my
Speaker 3: room watching a movie or relaxing and focusing on comp
Speaker 3: So pondering, yeah, pondering hardcore.
Speaker 2: I can imagine, you know, like.
Speaker 1: A monastery doing like a Zen Buddhist monk kind of
Speaker 1: like stay just for like you know, a year of
Speaker 1: like silence, just to let your brain go to town.
Speaker 3: I've thought about, you know, I think it's called I
Speaker 3: can't remember exactly what it's called, but that twenty one
Speaker 3: for part one day silent meditated. Oh my, that is
Speaker 3: up my alley.
Speaker 2: I actually am surprised you haven't done one yet.
Speaker 3: It's time. I really want to. There's a ten day
Speaker 3: one ten day would still be challenging. There's a ten
Speaker 3: day one year where I grew up in Melbourne. I
Speaker 3: really want to try it. So one day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had quite a few friends do that, the
Speaker 1: one in Melbourne. Yeah, yeah, so one day and they
Speaker 1: like life changing, life changing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they say like day seven, day eight, You're really
Speaker 3: like no this, I can't do this. And then there's
Speaker 3: something that happens, say eight day nine, day ten.
Speaker 2: So the devil leaves your body and you're like a
Speaker 2: new person.
Speaker 3: The devil enters your body.
Speaker 4: Yeah alright, So I already said love for rock climbing
Speaker 4: and surfing, latch myself to my identity as a teenager
Speaker 4: something that I've been trying.
Speaker 3: To navigate lately. It's like I did things, said things,
Speaker 3: was things when I was younger. I was hopeless in relationships.
Speaker 3: I was hopeless to some people, I was a poor human,
Speaker 3: and I haven't fully forgiven myself for those things when
Speaker 3: I was in high school or after high school. And
Speaker 3: it's like sometimes I latch myself to that identity, yeah,
Speaker 3: which is something that I'm trying to navigate because it's
Speaker 3: like I did that say when I'm fifteen, you do something,
Speaker 3: and then it's like I don't take into account the
Speaker 3: last ten years of growth and the person that I
Speaker 3: am right now, and it's like sometimes there's that little
Speaker 3: bit of like, oh, wonder if people are going to
Speaker 3: find out the real media because I'm still latching myself
Speaker 3: so that identity as a teenager. So that's something that
Speaker 3: I'm trying to navigate. I'm just trying to let go
Speaker 3: of things that I did and it's like a bit
Speaker 3: of a clean slate with self, but it is an
Speaker 3: ongoing process. And then the last seeing people pleasing tendency,
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, a bit of a people please it like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: no worries.
Speaker 2: I literally made a TikTok last night.
Speaker 1: There was like real footage of me putting my foot
Speaker 1: down and being assertive to get what I want.
Speaker 2: And then it's like me, Dad, do you want thing?
Speaker 2: No worries, I'll totally do that. Can I do it
Speaker 2: straight away for you?
Speaker 3: I understand, no worries.
Speaker 1: If not, oh my god, no pressure, don't even worry especially,
Speaker 1: don't even worry about It's totally fine. Like ignore what
Speaker 1: I said. I'm like, oh my god, my life. I'm
Speaker 1: so bad.
Speaker 3: It's crazy. And I thought about it, like why don't
Speaker 3: we do that. It's like the people that I choose
Speaker 3: the let in. I don't let in many people, but
Speaker 3: there's people that I choose to let in. I'm really
Speaker 3: scared that they're going to leave you or you not
Speaker 3: love me anymore, or and I think it's just it's
Speaker 3: just always like oh yeah, whatever, yeah, you know, do
Speaker 3: we do heaps of access service and yeah, I just
Speaker 3: it's something that I'm trying to navigate and my life coach.
Speaker 3: For anyone who is the people pleaser that's listening to this,
Speaker 3: it's like, try it for a month. When someone asks you, hey, Harry,
Speaker 3: do you want to coffee? Just something small like that,
Speaker 3: just just go hey, can you just give me a sec?
Speaker 3: And it's like, even if you really want a coffee,
Speaker 3: you're freeing up the space to actually think about what
Speaker 3: you want. And it's like even just by saying yeah,
Speaker 3: and I think that's a really powerful thing. So something
Speaker 3: that I've been slowly trying to integrate. Someone asked me,
Speaker 3: what's something that I want to do? Even if it's
Speaker 3: something I really want to do, I just go, hey,
Speaker 3: could just give me a second, I'll come back to you.
Speaker 3: Or and I think that's a really powerful thing.
Speaker 2: That is groundbreaking.
Speaker 1: Oh god, it's like giving your body a chance to override.
Speaker 2: It's like natural.
Speaker 3: Pilot. Yeah, and shout out to to why he should
Speaker 3: be amenda project And yeah, he's been my life coach
Speaker 3: about six months and I love everything that is about whoa.
Speaker 2: Whoa?
Speaker 1: That is like going to change my life, seriously going
Speaker 1: to change my life.
Speaker 2: WHOA. I can't allieve that.
Speaker 1: It's like you're so automatic in the way that you
Speaker 1: answer that just saying I can just imagine someone get
Speaker 1: the shop being like, what would you like fries?
Speaker 2: With that? Hold on?
Speaker 3: Give me we have good?
Speaker 1: Okay, mate to drive through and there's like twenty cars
Speaker 1: behind you.
Speaker 2: Do you want the prize or not?
Speaker 3: Something else is because as I said, relationships something that
Speaker 3: I really struggle with. Something else is really helped me
Speaker 3: with It's like role playing arguments with your partner. So
Speaker 3: it's like when you argued with your partner and things
Speaker 3: didn't go how you wanted them to go, it's like
Speaker 3: role playing the actual scenario that you wanted to happen.
Speaker 3: And it's like at least that it's in your body
Speaker 3: because often we're in autopilot in those moments, and it's
Speaker 3: like if you can do it five times, at least
Speaker 3: you've done it five times, so your body knows that
Speaker 3: there is a different direction.
Speaker 1: You can go, Oh my god, that's so clever. I
Speaker 1: just like more and more. Just think, the key to
Speaker 1: happiness and success in life, not success in terms of
Speaker 1: like money or anything, but success at getting the life
Speaker 1: that you want, all the results that you want out
Speaker 1: of your life is just to hack your own brain,
Speaker 1: like figure out the patterns that you don't like and
Speaker 1: then just interrupt them, like practice until you.
Speaker 2: Rewire that pathway.
Speaker 1: Even like I shared something the other day about even
Speaker 1: on the podcast or in speaking gigs, not using the
Speaker 1: word um, like the in law. If you say um,
Speaker 1: even though it doesn't actually mean anything about your intelligence,
Speaker 1: it just changes how persuasive you sound to someone else,
Speaker 1: and no one is ever going to not you know,
Speaker 1: need to pause every now and then to think about
Speaker 1: what they're saying. But instead of saying am, you just
Speaker 1: change it with another word. You just change it with
Speaker 1: a sow or and so, and you teach your brain
Speaker 1: and you're still buying the same amount of time as
Speaker 1: unbuyas you You just sound so much more eloquent. And
Speaker 1: I think I shared it on TikTok or something and
Speaker 1: people were like brain explosion, Like they've never known how
Speaker 1: lawyers never say um. And it's like they're definitely not
Speaker 1: not brain farighting. They're just using a different word and
Speaker 1: they practice replacing that.
Speaker 2: You can do that with anything. I love that so clever.
Speaker 3: It just brought me back to a thought. When I
Speaker 3: was in primary school, we spent maths TV, so our
Speaker 3: time stable to you. You'd be around the room with
Speaker 3: the teacher and yell at a timestable and she was
Speaker 3: yelled at four times four and I would say, what
Speaker 3: did you say? And then in that time, I'm thinking
Speaker 3: about the poor and then she would say four times four,
Speaker 3: I'm like sixteen.
Speaker 2: It's like I.
Speaker 1: Still have I'm like thirty three or whatever. I am
Speaker 1: now and I still have to go A, B, C
Speaker 1: D like to figure out which the next letter. I
Speaker 1: have to go from A every time, So I'm like, well, wait,
Speaker 1: what did you say ABCD?
Speaker 3: I'd like to get love that?
Speaker 2: Oh my god's hilarious. And very last question for you,
Speaker 2: what is your favorite quote?
Speaker 3: So's it's quite a long one, but it's The Man
Speaker 3: in the Arena by Theodore Rash Yeah.
Speaker 2: I love that quote.
Speaker 3: Yeah, more than happy to read it. But people who
Speaker 3: don't know it, yeah, look at up. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: I'll do you read it, Yeah, especially because you are
Speaker 1: actually the man in the arena, Like this is hilarious
Speaker 1: because you are a man inside an arena right right now.
Speaker 3: This is a boxing match right now. Yeah, excuse my reading.
Speaker 3: But it's not the critic who counts, not the man
Speaker 3: who points out how the strong man symbols or where
Speaker 3: the doer of deeds could have done them better. The
Speaker 3: credit belongs to the man who was actually in the arena,
Speaker 3: whose face is mad by dust and sweat and blood,
Speaker 3: who strives valiantly, who ers, who comes short again and
Speaker 3: again because there is no effort without error and shortcoming,
Speaker 3: but who does actually strive to do the deeds. Who
Speaker 3: knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in
Speaker 3: a worthy cause? Who are the best? Knows in the
Speaker 3: end the triumph of high achievement, And who, at the worst,
Speaker 3: if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly,
Speaker 3: so that his place shall never be with those cold
Speaker 3: and souls. You neither know victory nor defeat.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, so good. It's such a good one,
Speaker 2: the best.
Speaker 1: I love that, do you know, Like no other quote
Speaker 1: has been repeated, Like no other person has had the
Speaker 1: same favorite quote except that quote.
Speaker 2: Like ten people. It's like the most universally quoted quote.
Speaker 3: It's it's really helped me in the sense of like
Speaker 3: pricing in the icuonone cared about what to do with
Speaker 3: my life, no one coming to no one. And now
Speaker 3: it's like, yes, you get thousands of positivity and love,
Speaker 3: but there's that one percent who try and get you,
Speaker 3: and they said rude things, and you think about that
Speaker 3: comment and then that quote always brings me back to
Speaker 3: like they're not in the arena. They don't know what
Speaker 3: I'm going through, they don't know what I'm doing. I
Speaker 3: know I'm striving for it, and I think it always
Speaker 3: just brings me back to like, Okay, Mars be settled.
Speaker 2: Amazing.
Speaker 1: Well, Harry, thank you so much for your time. I
Speaker 1: admire you so much. You will have such an extraordinary
Speaker 1: and such an extraordinary ability to articulate what's going on
Speaker 1: up there, So thank you so much for sharing it
Speaker 1: with our yighborhood as I call. I could have literally
Speaker 1: talked to you for hours, but I appreciate your time
Speaker 1: so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much having me on What a role
Speaker 2: model right?
Speaker 1: I wish I could spend a week or a month
Speaker 1: shadowing Harry just to learn more from the way his
Speaker 1: brain works and help share that with young boys, men
Speaker 1: and really everyone as much as possible. As always, we
Speaker 1: are so lucky that our guests are so willing to
Speaker 1: give us their time, So please do share the episode
Speaker 1: and tag at Harry Underscore Guarside, showering him with yighborhood love,
Speaker 1: or any takeaways that you have to keep helping us
Speaker 1: grow as far and wide as possible. I promise you
Speaker 1: will very soon be getting another dose of and and
Speaker 1: yeas of our lives with some reflections from Egypt and
Speaker 1: the Honeymoon.
Speaker 2: So keep your ears appealed.
Speaker 1: I hope you're having an amazing week and as seizing
Speaker 1: your yeay