WEBVTT - Introducing 'But Are You happy': The 5-Minute Method To Stop Your Spiral 0:00:10.085 --> 0:00:10.365 So much. 0:00:10.405 --> 0:00:14.965 You're listening to a MoMA Maya podcast. Mamma Mayer acknowledges 0:00:15.045 --> 0:00:17.685 the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 0:00:17.765 --> 0:00:18.845 is recorded. 0:00:18.365 --> 0:00:21.725 On Hello, no filter listeners. This is Naima Brown, the 0:00:21.765 --> 0:00:24.725 executive producer of this show and also of But Are 0:00:24.725 --> 0:00:27.125 You Happy? And I am very excited to bring you 0:00:27.165 --> 0:00:30.045 the first episode of the new season of But Are 0:00:30.085 --> 0:00:34.485 You Happy? Hosted by a Shawne Dante and doctor Anastasia Heronus. 0:00:34.685 --> 0:00:37.845 Ashawnee and Anastasia will be bringing you the self development 0:00:38.005 --> 0:00:41.005 and mental health conversations that we know you want that 0:00:41.045 --> 0:00:45.765 you've asked us for about everything from worry spirals anxiety, 0:00:46.325 --> 0:00:49.645 to why you keep dating the wrong person, to how 0:00:49.685 --> 0:00:53.245 to spot the narcissist in your life so many more topics. 0:00:53.285 --> 0:00:55.845 We know you're gonna like it. Enjoy this first episode 0:00:56.005 --> 0:00:58.445 and please like and follow But Are You Happy wherever 0:00:58.485 --> 0:00:59.645 you listen to podcasts. 0:01:00.445 --> 0:01:03.325 Due to circumstances that were completely in my control and 0:01:03.365 --> 0:01:06.685 actually pretty predictable based on my past behavior, I will 0:01:06.685 --> 0:01:09.045 be spiraling for the next week or so. 0:01:09.325 --> 0:01:14.525 Anyone needs anything, I'm God, poor mother Mia. 0:01:14.565 --> 0:01:17.565 I'm your host, as Shani Dante. Welcome to But Are 0:01:17.605 --> 0:01:21.525 You happy because no another personality quiz won't fix you. 0:01:21.765 --> 0:01:26.085 And I'm doctor Anastagia Hernis a clinical psychologist passionate about 0:01:26.165 --> 0:01:30.885 happiness and mental health. Now, do you ever get stuck 0:01:31.125 --> 0:01:35.605 thinking about a hypothetical situation that isn't really happening and 0:01:35.725 --> 0:01:38.525 asking yourself a bunch of questions that make you more 0:01:38.565 --> 0:01:42.685 and more stressed. You've probably found yourself in a stress spiral. 0:01:43.205 --> 0:01:45.845 If you've listened to this show before, my voice may 0:01:45.885 --> 0:01:49.445 not be familiar. I'm a mental wellbeing and self development leader. 0:01:50.325 --> 0:01:53.245 I'm Australian fore Lunkan, and I'm constantly on a journey 0:01:53.285 --> 0:01:54.365 of learning more about my. 0:01:54.365 --> 0:01:56.125 Culture and my passion. 0:01:56.245 --> 0:01:58.245 And you could say purpose in life right now is 0:01:58.285 --> 0:02:00.965 all around empowering teenage girls and young women. 0:02:01.085 --> 0:02:04.725 And I'm an academic and author. Most recently i published 0:02:04.725 --> 0:02:07.565 a book called The Dopamine Brain. So my whole career 0:02:07.605 --> 0:02:10.445 focus really is about how to help people develop new 0:02:10.485 --> 0:02:12.285 habits to optimize their mental health. 0:02:12.325 --> 0:02:14.565 We're going to be shifting gears to bring you what 0:02:14.645 --> 0:02:18.685 you told us you wanted conversations with an expert about 0:02:18.685 --> 0:02:23.125 the things that you are thinking about, working on, struggling through, 0:02:23.645 --> 0:02:26.565 or really just curious about and that's where you Doctor 0:02:26.605 --> 0:02:29.085 Anastasia heronus, you come into the equation. 0:02:29.525 --> 0:02:33.045 We're going to be covering so many relevant topics like 0:02:33.605 --> 0:02:36.405 how to stop dating the wrong person, how to say 0:02:36.445 --> 0:02:40.405 no to the people we love, and how to actually 0:02:40.525 --> 0:02:43.485 quieten down that voice in our head when it's being 0:02:43.525 --> 0:02:44.405 really mean to us. 0:02:44.565 --> 0:02:47.645 In each episode, you'll be getting all of Doctor Anastasia's 0:02:47.645 --> 0:02:52.565 wisdom and knowledge, along with her clear takeaways specific guidance 0:02:52.605 --> 0:02:55.685 for how you can apply this information to your lives. 0:02:56.005 --> 0:02:58.005 Right now, as you may. 0:02:57.885 --> 0:03:00.365 Have guessed, we're kicking this season off with the topic 0:03:00.445 --> 0:03:03.365 that we know so many of us can struggle with, 0:03:03.765 --> 0:03:08.725 including myself, anxiety, worry and getting called in those stress spirals. 0:03:09.365 --> 0:03:11.405 Now, this is something so many of my clients have 0:03:11.445 --> 0:03:13.845 been dealing with lately, and you might be. 0:03:13.805 --> 0:03:23.925 Two, All right, let's jump in, okay, on the staga, 0:03:24.045 --> 0:03:26.845 How do we actually know if we're anxious? 0:03:27.245 --> 0:03:28.245 How does it show up? 0:03:28.485 --> 0:03:31.565 Anxiety is a massive topic. There's so much for us 0:03:31.605 --> 0:03:34.285 to talk about here, and it really does exist on 0:03:34.365 --> 0:03:37.885 a spectrum of experiences. It's one of the most common 0:03:37.885 --> 0:03:39.885 things actually that a lot of my clients are facing 0:03:39.885 --> 0:03:42.085 at the moment. And if we put this kind of 0:03:42.325 --> 0:03:46.085 in the context of Aussies around the country. About three 0:03:46.165 --> 0:03:49.405 million Australians actually live with anxiety. It's about one in 0:03:49.445 --> 0:03:52.365 four of us will experience problematic anxiety at some point 0:03:52.365 --> 0:03:52.925 in our lives. 0:03:53.005 --> 0:03:55.685 That's a wild stat and just goes to show how 0:03:55.685 --> 0:03:58.645 common it is. And we'd love to kind of unpack 0:03:58.685 --> 0:04:01.365 anxiety because I feel like it does get. 0:04:01.285 --> 0:04:03.885 A really bad rap. Yeah, it's so common. 0:04:04.405 --> 0:04:07.525 Yes, anxiety gets a bad rap. It doesn't feel good, right, 0:04:07.565 --> 0:04:10.565 And none of us like to feel anxious, and so 0:04:10.685 --> 0:04:14.605 it's sort of classified broadly as one of these bad emotions, 0:04:14.605 --> 0:04:16.245 an emotion that we want to get rid of. We 0:04:16.285 --> 0:04:17.925 don't want to feel anxious, so how do we get 0:04:18.005 --> 0:04:23.005 rid of it? But actually, anxiety, along with every other emotion, 0:04:23.725 --> 0:04:28.325 serves a really important function all emotions. It's important for 0:04:28.405 --> 0:04:31.965 us to think about them as sources of information. They're 0:04:32.005 --> 0:04:36.765 like data points. They give us information about ourselves, about 0:04:36.805 --> 0:04:41.765 the world, about the environment around us. So I think 0:04:41.845 --> 0:04:45.365 it's crucial for us to be able to lean into 0:04:45.605 --> 0:04:48.885 the information that an emotion actually gives us. Now, if 0:04:48.925 --> 0:04:53.805 we circle back to anxiety specifically, the function of anxiety 0:04:54.045 --> 0:04:59.125 is to essentially be the body's smoke detector and smoke alarm, right, 0:04:59.245 --> 0:05:03.605 So anxiety is giving us the message that there might 0:05:03.645 --> 0:05:06.845 be some sort of danger or threat in the environment 0:05:07.125 --> 0:05:09.285 that we need to be aware of and perhaps then 0:05:09.485 --> 0:05:11.485 do something to protect ourselves. 0:05:11.725 --> 0:05:15.245 It's really great that you're unpacking this because I feel 0:05:15.245 --> 0:05:18.485 like what I'm hearing is anxiety can actually be helpful 0:05:18.725 --> 0:05:21.965 as well at times, which is very different to I 0:05:22.005 --> 0:05:25.565 would say what we naturally have our definition of anxiety. 0:05:25.605 --> 0:05:27.245 We want to shame it. 0:05:27.285 --> 0:05:29.445 There's a stigma around it, we don't want to talk 0:05:29.485 --> 0:05:31.325 about it, we want to push it away. Yet what 0:05:31.365 --> 0:05:34.405 I'm hearing is it is actually giving us more information about, 0:05:35.085 --> 0:05:37.685 you know, the context of the situation that might be playing out. 0:05:37.845 --> 0:05:41.325 So in saying that, like, how do you differentiate between 0:05:41.405 --> 0:05:43.765 when anxiety is helpful and unhelpful? 0:05:44.205 --> 0:05:47.885 Anxiety will always show up in all of us throughout 0:05:47.885 --> 0:05:49.765 our life, so we can't get rid of it completely. 0:05:49.845 --> 0:05:53.165 So I think this question about helpful versus unhelpful anxiety 0:05:53.245 --> 0:06:01.245 is really important. Unhelpful anxiety is when we experience anxiety 0:06:01.725 --> 0:06:04.805 that's out of context. So let me explain what I 0:06:04.845 --> 0:06:08.525 mean by that. If we experience anxiety in a situation 0:06:08.645 --> 0:06:12.165 that doesn't warrant us to be anxious. That's going to 0:06:12.165 --> 0:06:15.325 be unhelpful for us. So if we're sitting in the 0:06:15.365 --> 0:06:18.205 podcast studio right now talking and all of a sudden, 0:06:18.365 --> 0:06:20.405 a big grizzly bear runs through the studio, we're going 0:06:20.445 --> 0:06:23.125 to feel anxious, Right, normal natural emotion. We want to 0:06:23.165 --> 0:06:26.085 feel anxious in that situation because anxiety is going to 0:06:26.085 --> 0:06:28.405 prompt us to get up and run out of this place. Right. 0:06:28.685 --> 0:06:34.645 Helpful anxiety so unhelpful. Anxiety sends us a message which 0:06:34.765 --> 0:06:39.085 makes us overestimate the likelihood things are going to go wrong. 0:06:39.125 --> 0:06:40.685 So I think this is a great episode for us 0:06:40.685 --> 0:06:43.645 to be starting with and talking about. But to answer 0:06:43.685 --> 0:06:46.565 your question, how does anxiety show up? I'm actually going 0:06:46.645 --> 0:06:49.925 to use a client of mine. We're going to call 0:06:49.965 --> 0:06:53.045 her Catherine for not actually her name, but to be anonymous, 0:06:53.085 --> 0:06:55.685 we'll call her Catherine. She had to do a lot 0:06:55.725 --> 0:06:58.445 of public speaking for her work and in her role, 0:06:58.885 --> 0:07:02.725 but would get this crippling, overwhelming fear of getting on 0:07:02.805 --> 0:07:05.405 stage and making a full of herself and saying the 0:07:05.405 --> 0:07:08.405 wrong thing. Now, there was no history of her ever 0:07:08.445 --> 0:07:11.125 really doing that. She was generally pretty fine with her 0:07:11.125 --> 0:07:14.045 public speaking, and even if she did kind of get 0:07:14.045 --> 0:07:16.445 on stage and say something a little wrong. It wasn't 0:07:16.485 --> 0:07:19.285 kind of the end of the world. So anxiety makes 0:07:19.365 --> 0:07:22.125 us overestimate that things will go wrong, But it does 0:07:22.125 --> 0:07:27.045 another thing. It also makes us underestimate our ability to 0:07:27.205 --> 0:07:31.085 cope if things do go wrong, because I don't have 0:07:31.165 --> 0:07:33.245 a magic wand to say that Catherine will never get 0:07:33.285 --> 0:07:34.965 on stage and never make a full of herself. Right, 0:07:34.965 --> 0:07:37.645 there is a world in which that could happen. So 0:07:37.725 --> 0:07:39.805 there is a chance. It's probably a small chance, but 0:07:39.845 --> 0:07:43.485 there is a chance. But anxiety makes us underestimate our 0:07:43.525 --> 0:07:46.645 ability to cope if that happens. So if Catherine got 0:07:46.645 --> 0:07:49.045 on stage and completely forgot what she was meant to 0:07:49.045 --> 0:07:52.245 be saying in her presentation, it would feel pretty crappy, 0:07:52.285 --> 0:07:54.365 like it wouldn't be a nice experience for her. The 0:07:54.405 --> 0:07:56.805 crowd would probably be like, oh, she's forgot what she's 0:07:56.805 --> 0:07:59.525 meant to say. But in reality, it's a situation she 0:07:59.525 --> 0:08:01.765 could cope with. She'd just walk off, take a breath, 0:08:01.805 --> 0:08:04.205 grab her notes, come back on the stage, keep going. 0:08:04.365 --> 0:08:06.725 Probably no one ever thinks about it again. So that's 0:08:06.765 --> 0:08:11.245 an example of where anxiety can be unhelpful for us, 0:08:11.285 --> 0:08:14.605 because all it was doing was making Catherine feel completely 0:08:14.685 --> 0:08:17.205 overwhelmed and stressed when she didn't really need to. 0:08:18.405 --> 0:08:20.205 I really love this too, because it kind of ties 0:08:20.245 --> 0:08:23.085 back to your statistic that you've named before and how 0:08:23.125 --> 0:08:25.565 common it is. But also what I'm hearing is that 0:08:26.125 --> 0:08:29.245 even though it's common, anxiety can show up in different ways. 0:08:29.325 --> 0:08:31.885 So I like that you're kind of giving us the 0:08:31.965 --> 0:08:35.405 listeners different ideas of what that could potentially look like. 0:08:35.765 --> 0:08:39.005 Yes, And the reason it is so common is because 0:08:39.205 --> 0:08:43.645 from a biological prehistoric perspective, anxiety was crucial for the 0:08:43.685 --> 0:08:47.125 survival of the species, if we remember, it serves evolutionary 0:08:47.605 --> 0:08:52.125 function to protect us. It's just that nowadays we live 0:08:52.245 --> 0:08:54.645 in a world, in a society, especially if you live 0:08:54.645 --> 0:08:57.605 in here in Australia, where we don't need to be 0:08:57.805 --> 0:09:01.765 as alert for threats and dangers. But emotions exist in 0:09:01.805 --> 0:09:05.085 a very primal part of the brain, so we feel 0:09:05.125 --> 0:09:08.605 those emotional experiences much more and that anxiety much more 0:09:08.645 --> 0:09:11.965 than actually need to given how our life and society 0:09:11.965 --> 0:09:12.885 functions these days. 0:09:14.765 --> 0:09:17.525 So what about a stress spiral, Like, what exactly is 0:09:17.525 --> 0:09:18.405 a stress spirl? 0:09:18.445 --> 0:09:20.805 And how can you tell if you're caughting one? 0:09:20.925 --> 0:09:23.645 I love this because a stress spiral is not necessarily 0:09:23.805 --> 0:09:27.725 a clinical technical term that I would use, but it 0:09:27.845 --> 0:09:30.085 is definitely a term that many of my clients will 0:09:30.165 --> 0:09:33.165 use right in sort of pop culture, and when people 0:09:33.165 --> 0:09:36.285 colloquially talk about anxiety, they will talk about being in 0:09:36.325 --> 0:09:39.165 a stress spiral. And so I guess what people are 0:09:39.205 --> 0:09:43.965 getting at is this idea of getting deeper and deeper 0:09:44.125 --> 0:09:48.965 in an experience. Stress Again, a normal natural emotion that 0:09:49.005 --> 0:09:51.605 will all experience at some point in time when we're 0:09:51.605 --> 0:09:54.725 feeling overwhelmed with some sort of pressure. But what can 0:09:54.765 --> 0:09:58.245 happen is we can get caught further and further in 0:09:58.325 --> 0:10:01.085 that experience, which ultimately makes it more and more intense. 0:10:02.525 --> 0:10:04.845 So does that mean in a way with stress spirals? 0:10:04.845 --> 0:10:07.045 Because you mentioned and I hear it all the time. 0:10:07.085 --> 0:10:09.805 It is thrown around a lot in pop culture. So 0:10:10.565 --> 0:10:12.285 what isn't a stress viral? 0:10:12.365 --> 0:10:17.805 Then that's a good alternative question. What isn't a stress viral? 0:10:18.045 --> 0:10:21.365 What isn't a stress viral is when we experience stress 0:10:21.405 --> 0:10:26.765 in a way that meets the expectation of a situation. 0:10:26.965 --> 0:10:30.805 So if I have an impending deadline for work on 0:10:31.045 --> 0:10:35.005 Friday and it's now Thursday and I haven't got it 0:10:35.045 --> 0:10:38.245 almost done, stress is going to naturally come about, and 0:10:38.245 --> 0:10:41.245 stress can actually be a really useful thing in that situation. 0:10:41.365 --> 0:10:43.805 Because I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but 0:10:43.885 --> 0:10:46.365 a little bit of healthy stress helps us get things done. 0:10:46.565 --> 0:10:47.925 Very true can confirm. 0:10:48.685 --> 0:10:52.885 So healthy stress actually motivates us to meet the deadline, 0:10:53.165 --> 0:10:56.965 to get done what we need to do. Unhealthy stress 0:10:57.325 --> 0:10:58.285 debilitates us. 0:10:59.845 --> 0:11:02.325 It's really interesting because I'm hearing some common themes. Even 0:11:02.325 --> 0:11:05.005 with anxiety. What we're hearing is it's helpful and unhelpful. 0:11:05.045 --> 0:11:08.125 But also with stress, it's helpful and also unhelpful. 0:11:08.205 --> 0:11:11.405 So and that goes with all emotions. All emotions can 0:11:11.445 --> 0:11:13.525 be helpful when they fit the context and when we 0:11:13.605 --> 0:11:17.125 experience them in a way that feels manageable. But if 0:11:17.125 --> 0:11:19.925 we experience them too intensely or too much or for 0:11:20.005 --> 0:11:23.645 too long, they can become really debilitating in our lives. 0:11:24.165 --> 0:11:28.085 So is there a difference between anxiety in the body 0:11:28.125 --> 0:11:30.685 as we feel it versus thinking anxious thoughts. 0:11:31.245 --> 0:11:35.965 Yes, absolutely, they're absolutely related. They're connected. So our thoughts, 0:11:36.165 --> 0:11:40.245 our thoughts are very powerful. They certainly influence how we feel. 0:11:40.405 --> 0:11:43.365 So if I'm worrying, if I'm going through that anxious 0:11:43.405 --> 0:11:47.725 thinking process, I'm more likely to feel anxiety in the body. 0:11:48.365 --> 0:11:51.685 But one of the things I interestingly find in the 0:11:51.725 --> 0:11:55.765 work that I do with clients is that people tend 0:11:55.925 --> 0:11:59.165 to fall into one of two categories. Some people will 0:11:59.165 --> 0:12:01.805 come into the therapy room and they'll be able to 0:12:02.125 --> 0:12:08.045 describe to me in great detail the physical experience of anxiety. 0:12:08.365 --> 0:12:10.605 So they'll tell me that get anxious, and they'll say, 0:12:10.605 --> 0:12:13.565 I feel my heart racing, I get sweaty, I feel dizzy, 0:12:13.565 --> 0:12:16.245 I feel like I'm going to faint, my legs feel wobbly, 0:12:16.245 --> 0:12:18.405 and I feel like I can't stand up anymore. So 0:12:18.445 --> 0:12:20.685 they can give me all the details about what it 0:12:20.725 --> 0:12:25.085 physically feels like in their body. Other people can come 0:12:25.085 --> 0:12:27.725 in the room and tell me great details about what 0:12:27.765 --> 0:12:31.325 they're thinking, their thought processes, and the things that they're 0:12:31.365 --> 0:12:34.885 worrying about. And ultimately, what we want to help people 0:12:34.965 --> 0:12:38.485 do is have an awareness of both the thought processes 0:12:38.565 --> 0:12:41.805 that can be quite anxious in nature and the physical 0:12:41.845 --> 0:12:46.405 experience of anxiety in the body. 0:12:46.485 --> 0:12:49.485 So what about a panic attack, What exactly is that. 0:12:49.965 --> 0:12:54.445 A panic attack is different to anxiety. We could sort 0:12:54.445 --> 0:12:59.525 of summarize it as a much more intense experience of 0:12:59.565 --> 0:13:03.525 anxiety in and of itself. So a panic attack tends 0:13:03.565 --> 0:13:07.205 to last not more than ten minutes on average. And 0:13:07.285 --> 0:13:11.565 when people experience a panic attack, they have this overwhelming 0:13:11.725 --> 0:13:18.405 physical experience of those anxious sensations, so really intense heart racing, sweating, 0:13:19.445 --> 0:13:22.325 feeling shaky, feeling like they're going to faint. And often 0:13:22.365 --> 0:13:25.645 people actually describe it as a feeling where they think 0:13:25.685 --> 0:13:27.845 they're having a heart attack or they think they might 0:13:27.925 --> 0:13:31.165 be dying. Like it's actually quite a scary experience for 0:13:31.205 --> 0:13:33.365 those who do have panic attacks. 0:13:34.125 --> 0:13:37.205 Yeah, I feel like panic attacks. It's something I feel. 0:13:37.445 --> 0:13:40.165 I hear all the time with people who've experienced personally 0:13:40.325 --> 0:13:43.045 or observed someone else that they love going through one, 0:13:43.125 --> 0:13:45.165 and it can be quite confronting in a way. 0:13:45.365 --> 0:13:47.925 And the thing is, often these panic attacks can feel 0:13:47.965 --> 0:13:51.125 like they come out of nowhere. There isn't always a 0:13:51.245 --> 0:13:55.365 clear trigger, So it's not necessarily like, you know, Catherine 0:13:55.445 --> 0:13:57.805 about to go on stage, worrying about is she going 0:13:57.845 --> 0:13:59.525 to make a fool out of herself Pete. Someone might 0:13:59.565 --> 0:14:01.445 literally just be sitting in the office and all of 0:14:01.445 --> 0:14:05.365 a sudden they get this onslaught of anxious symptoms and 0:14:05.405 --> 0:14:08.725 they have a panic attack. Sometimes the trigger can be 0:14:08.805 --> 0:14:11.845 outside in the environment. But actually sometimes it can be 0:14:11.925 --> 0:14:15.525 an internal sensation. So for example, if I've had a 0:14:15.525 --> 0:14:18.245 couple of cups of coffee today, maybe a few too 0:14:18.285 --> 0:14:23.285 many cups of coffee, well, my heart might be racing 0:14:23.405 --> 0:14:25.965 a little bit faster than it usually would, and that's 0:14:25.965 --> 0:14:29.205 because of the stimulant from the caffeine. But someone who's 0:14:29.205 --> 0:14:31.445 prone to panic attacks might be sitting in the office 0:14:31.445 --> 0:14:38.085 and goof, my heart's racing. Heart racing equals anxiousness and anxiety. 0:14:38.485 --> 0:14:41.725 What's happening in my life right now that I'm anxious about? 0:14:41.845 --> 0:14:44.725 And so then they'll start spiraling down that rabbit hole, 0:14:44.965 --> 0:14:47.485 whereas it's actually just a physical sensation that they've picked 0:14:47.565 --> 0:14:49.605 up on and honed in on a bit too much. 0:14:50.605 --> 0:14:53.045 So does that mean because what I'm hearing panic attacks, 0:14:53.085 --> 0:14:56.405 it's definitely a really big it's a body sensation. 0:14:56.525 --> 0:14:58.285 It's quite sounds quite severe. 0:14:58.445 --> 0:15:01.645 So then what's the difference between just feeling anxiety in 0:15:01.725 --> 0:15:04.525 your body versus I'm having a panic attack. 0:15:05.805 --> 0:15:09.165 I think it comes back to the usefulness of the experience. 0:15:09.365 --> 0:15:12.045 So when someone has a panic attack, it's for those 0:15:12.165 --> 0:15:15.045 ten or so minutes it's debilitating. It feels like they 0:15:15.085 --> 0:15:18.205 cannot function. People might often have to actually leave the 0:15:18.285 --> 0:15:22.845 room and excuse themselves, whereas anxiety in and of itself 0:15:23.485 --> 0:15:26.365 might be uncomfortable, but we can still function in the world. 0:15:26.445 --> 0:15:29.085 It can motivate us to take an action that's helpful 0:15:29.125 --> 0:15:29.525 for us. 0:15:30.725 --> 0:15:32.565 So it's a bit like there's a bit of a spectrum, 0:15:32.605 --> 0:15:35.405 but if it's anxiety in the body, there's somewhat more 0:15:35.445 --> 0:15:37.925 control around how you can move through it. 0:15:38.125 --> 0:15:38.325 Yes. 0:15:38.565 --> 0:15:41.245 Yeah, so you've told us a bit about Catherine with 0:15:41.325 --> 0:15:44.005 her fear of public speaking. What are some of the 0:15:44.085 --> 0:15:46.285 other themes you're noticing in your clinical work. 0:15:46.965 --> 0:15:50.285 Anxiety shows up in so many different ways for people. 0:15:50.645 --> 0:15:54.925 But actually, interestingly, one of the recent themes I've seen 0:15:55.405 --> 0:16:00.325 is this anxiousness and worry about big picture kind of 0:16:00.405 --> 0:16:05.725 global events, So things like worrying about wars, worrying about 0:16:05.845 --> 0:16:09.165 climate change, worrying about politics and how politics are going 0:16:09.205 --> 0:16:13.685 to influence the future. And often in these cases they're 0:16:13.765 --> 0:16:17.245 issues that are so big that one person, you know, 0:16:17.325 --> 0:16:22.205 can't necessarily change them. So there's this theme of anxiety 0:16:22.285 --> 0:16:25.045 coming through the clinic room where people are feeling really 0:16:25.125 --> 0:16:28.725 quite overwhelmed and sometimes also a little bit hopeless, kind 0:16:28.725 --> 0:16:30.885 of at the state of affairs in the world at 0:16:30.885 --> 0:16:33.205 the moment. So that's one thing I've seen more of, 0:16:33.245 --> 0:16:36.565 particularly with climate change. Young people are really worried about 0:16:36.685 --> 0:16:38.885 and wanting to talk about climate change at the moment. 0:16:39.725 --> 0:16:43.925 But another one is cost of living. Things have become 0:16:44.005 --> 0:16:46.565 so expensive at the moment. We're certainly in a cost 0:16:46.605 --> 0:16:51.685 of living crisis, and that can range from people worrying 0:16:51.725 --> 0:16:54.205 about how they're going to, you know, afford to buy 0:16:54.205 --> 0:16:55.765 a house one day in the future if that's one 0:16:55.805 --> 0:16:57.765 of their goals, all the way down to do I 0:16:57.805 --> 0:16:59.725 have enough money to buy groceries this week? 0:17:00.885 --> 0:17:03.765 I mean, the cost of living example is so relatable 0:17:03.805 --> 0:17:07.285 and I think even for me personally. Once I left 0:17:07.365 --> 0:17:11.325 high school, I went straight into university and then went 0:17:11.365 --> 0:17:14.605 down that traditional path, but then I decided to get 0:17:14.605 --> 0:17:17.005 into the startup world, so I started the flourish journey, 0:17:17.005 --> 0:17:18.885 which I'm so incredibly proud of. 0:17:19.045 --> 0:17:21.045 But in saying that, you. 0:17:21.005 --> 0:17:24.125 Know, startup life, you don't really have a very stable income, 0:17:24.245 --> 0:17:26.925 which means you can't really secure alone for a home, 0:17:27.045 --> 0:17:29.085 And to be honest, when you're in your early twenties, 0:17:29.125 --> 0:17:30.005 you don't really. 0:17:29.805 --> 0:17:30.805 Think about those things. 0:17:30.845 --> 0:17:33.525 You think that, oh, that's a ten year problem. But 0:17:33.965 --> 0:17:36.565 fast forward, you know, I'm thirty three now. It feels 0:17:36.565 --> 0:17:38.805 like society tells you, oh, you need to have a 0:17:38.845 --> 0:17:40.765 house and have all the things set up. 0:17:40.725 --> 0:17:42.605 By thirty and that weighs on me. 0:17:42.765 --> 0:17:45.885 I feel like I feel like I am behind, even 0:17:45.885 --> 0:17:48.125 though it's so easy to look at the highlight reels 0:17:48.165 --> 0:17:50.765 on Instagram and know that it is the highlight reels, 0:17:50.805 --> 0:17:53.845 but you still get sucked into it. So it's definitely 0:17:53.845 --> 0:17:55.605 something that weighs on me. I'm not sure if that's 0:17:55.885 --> 0:17:57.285 something you can relate to as well. 0:17:57.605 --> 0:18:00.845 Absolutely, this idea of kind of financially where we should 0:18:00.845 --> 0:18:02.525 be at any point in our life and how much 0:18:02.565 --> 0:18:04.525 we should have saved or what we should have done 0:18:04.565 --> 0:18:07.045 with that money, is you know, something I can relate 0:18:07.085 --> 0:18:08.725 to as well. But as I said, like a lot 0:18:08.765 --> 0:18:10.765 of people, a lot of younger people are kind of 0:18:10.765 --> 0:18:12.965 thinking about this and worrying about it as well. 0:18:13.165 --> 0:18:14.925 Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of shame around 0:18:14.965 --> 0:18:17.685 talking about money, right, and so often we feel like 0:18:17.725 --> 0:18:20.085 we're alone in it, or we feel like we're the 0:18:20.125 --> 0:18:22.285 poorest friend out of everyone. 0:18:22.605 --> 0:18:25.485 And the starts speak to the opposite, right, So so 0:18:25.765 --> 0:18:29.405 many people are actually struggling financially. And I was actually 0:18:29.445 --> 0:18:31.285 looking at a report that came out last year from 0:18:31.285 --> 0:18:36.005 Mission Australia and it surveyed almost twenty thousand people and 0:18:36.045 --> 0:18:38.725 a particularly young cohort. Right, So these were fifteen to 0:18:38.885 --> 0:18:42.045 nineteen year olds, and what they found is that fifty 0:18:42.085 --> 0:18:46.485 five percent, so more than half, were significantly worried about 0:18:46.485 --> 0:18:49.365 and had anxiety about their financial security. And I was 0:18:49.405 --> 0:18:51.205 just blown away when I read that, because I was like, 0:18:51.405 --> 0:18:54.565 fifteen to nineteen year olds, like we should be worried about. 0:18:54.605 --> 0:18:57.405 Fifteen is like you know, the fight that you've had 0:18:57.405 --> 0:18:59.525 with your friends at school, and like you're going to 0:18:59.565 --> 0:19:02.085 sit with at lunch and maybe studying for tests, not 0:19:02.125 --> 0:19:03.925 financial security for your future. 0:19:06.965 --> 0:19:08.925 After this short break, duck down a stage is going 0:19:08.925 --> 0:19:11.645 to teach you the five minute method to help you 0:19:11.765 --> 0:19:15.565 break out of an anxiety spiral and stop an anxiety attack. 0:19:15.365 --> 0:19:16.165 In its tracks. 0:19:20.685 --> 0:19:24.685 At Asasia, I want to ask you for two techniques today. First, 0:19:24.685 --> 0:19:26.525 I want you to tell us what we can do 0:19:26.605 --> 0:19:31.045 for ourselves where we find ourselves spirally, and what should 0:19:31.045 --> 0:19:32.045 we do for someone else. 0:19:33.165 --> 0:19:34.285 Let's start with ourselves. 0:19:34.845 --> 0:19:38.285 So the technique and the strategies that I'm going to 0:19:38.325 --> 0:19:40.685 give you today are based on a type of therapy 0:19:40.885 --> 0:19:46.085 called cognitive behavior therapy or CBT for short, and it 0:19:46.165 --> 0:19:48.925 has the evidence behind it. It's sort of the gold 0:19:49.045 --> 0:19:52.485 standard therapeutic approach that we would use for someone who 0:19:52.525 --> 0:19:57.165 is experiencing anxiety. It's what I used with Catherine when 0:19:57.165 --> 0:19:59.045 she was worried about getting on stage and doing her 0:19:59.085 --> 0:20:03.765 public speaking. So what I first recommends to people, and 0:20:03.805 --> 0:20:06.085 this is going to sound really basic, but bear with me, 0:20:07.605 --> 0:20:13.125 is stop as a first step, just stop, take a moment, 0:20:13.685 --> 0:20:16.325 take a breath, take a pause. For us to be 0:20:16.365 --> 0:20:19.605 able to do kind of anything effective for ourselves, we 0:20:19.725 --> 0:20:22.125 first need to be able to just stop and take 0:20:22.165 --> 0:20:25.005 a breath and ground ourselves in the moment. 0:20:25.765 --> 0:20:28.885 It's really interesting because it can sound really basic, but 0:20:28.925 --> 0:20:31.605 also it can be really hard when you're in it 0:20:31.725 --> 0:20:32.405 so deeply. 0:20:32.885 --> 0:20:33.965 It's hard to stop. 0:20:34.485 --> 0:20:38.405 Yes, absolutely, And so I say to people, just like physically, stop, 0:20:38.485 --> 0:20:42.405 don't take another step, don't say another word, you know, metaphorically, 0:20:42.525 --> 0:20:44.325 even if you're sort of in a situation where you 0:20:44.445 --> 0:20:47.365 are in a meeting at work or something, imagine yourself stopping, 0:20:47.685 --> 0:20:50.365 but just kind of take that moment, take that pause, 0:20:50.845 --> 0:20:53.965 take that breath, because once we've done that we're in 0:20:54.005 --> 0:20:57.125 a better position to help ourselves through the next few steps. 0:20:57.565 --> 0:21:01.605 So once we've stopped, we want to take a moment 0:21:02.325 --> 0:21:07.765 to think about our thinking, reflect on our thoughts, actually 0:21:07.925 --> 0:21:11.485 notice what our brain and our mind is telling us. 0:21:12.165 --> 0:21:15.245 We were saying earlier that the mind is so powerful, 0:21:15.325 --> 0:21:19.165 our thoughts are so powerful, and they certainly influence us 0:21:19.565 --> 0:21:24.245 to feel particular ways. But not everything that we think, well, 0:21:24.325 --> 0:21:28.205 not everything that we tell ourselves is actually true. We 0:21:28.485 --> 0:21:35.245 all engage in unhelpful patterns of thinking. We might catastrophize, 0:21:35.405 --> 0:21:38.045 we might be quite black and white now thinking, we 0:21:38.125 --> 0:21:41.365