Speaker 1: It's Monday, March thirty in twenty twenty six and Cassie
Speaker 1: Servos is getting ready to take her four month old
Speaker 1: baby to a mum's and Bubbs gym class. She's currently
Speaker 1: on maternity leave from her job as crime editor at
Speaker 1: seven News Melbourne. But as she packs the wipes and
Speaker 1: nappies into her bag while juggling her daughter on her hip,
Speaker 1: her watch buzzes with a notification. It keeps buzzing. Curious,
Speaker 1: Cassie checks her phone. One of her police contacts has
Speaker 1: messaged DF found, it reads. Moments later, another message comes
Speaker 1: through DF Dead. Immediately Cassie knows what it means. Desi
Speaker 1: Freeman real name Desmond Philby, Australia's most wanted fugitive for
Speaker 1: the past seven months. The man accused of murdering two
Speaker 1: police officers at his rural Victorian property. The man accused
Speaker 1: of fleeing a home in which police found hundreds of
Speaker 1: files containing child abuse material. That man, that criminal is dead. Finally,
Speaker 1: the manhunt that has terrorized a country and a police
Speaker 1: force in mourning is over. I'm Jemma Bath and you're
Speaker 1: listening to True Crime Conversations, a podcast exploring the world's
Speaker 1: most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know
Speaker 1: the most about them. Two men, two Victorian police officers
Speaker 1: simply doing their jobs, were killed on August twenty six,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, by Desmond Philby. Their names were fifty
Speaker 1: nine year old Detective Leading Senior Constable Neil Thompson and
Speaker 1: thirty four year old Senior Constable the Dim Devatata. A
Speaker 1: third officer was left seriously wounded. The deaths of Neil
Speaker 1: and the Dim have been felt deeply by their families,
Speaker 1: friends and colleagues. In Blue Neil was just a week
Speaker 1: from retirement, a dedicated detective attached to the Wangarat A
Speaker 1: criminal investigation unit. His loved ones describe a man who
Speaker 1: loved footy and campfires and hammocks, a naturally talented bushman
Speaker 1: who left behind his partner of six years, Lisa, and
Speaker 1: two step children. For Dim was just thirty four. He
Speaker 1: lived and worked in Melbourne. A member of the Public
Speaker 1: Order Response Team. He was only supposed to be in
Speaker 1: regional Victoria for a week on deployment to help deal
Speaker 1: with snow crowds. Born in belgiumvad migrated to Australia as
Speaker 1: an adult and was known as kind, adventurous, upbeat and worldly,
Speaker 1: an adrenaline junkie and a romantic at heart bad leaves
Speaker 1: behind his devastated parents and brother. After murdering these two
Speaker 1: beloved men, Philby, a self identified sovereign citizen and accused pedophile,
Speaker 1: fled the scene, leaving his wife and baby at the property.
Speaker 1: That was the start of seven long months of searching
Speaker 1: of false leads, of horrific taunts from others in his
Speaker 1: community who shared his anti police beliefs, of heartbreaking funerals
Speaker 1: and tearful goodbyes. Then, in March twenty twenty six, while
Speaker 1: cradling her baby, Cassie broke the news of Philby's death
Speaker 1: from her living room.
Speaker 2: Well, we have some major breaking news now.
Speaker 3: It regards the search for Desi Freeman.
Speaker 2: Let's go live to Cassie Zervos now in Melbourne.
Speaker 1: A Cassie, this is all happening. What can you tell us?
Speaker 3: Good morning guys. Well this is obviously huge developing news
Speaker 3: this morning.
Speaker 2: What we can confirm is that Desi Freeman, the man
Speaker 2: who shot down two police.
Speaker 3: Officers in August last.
Speaker 2: Year, was found in the poor Punker region with this
Speaker 2: morning by heavily armed officers. But as you can understand,
Speaker 2: he says, very much a developing story. So details on
Speaker 2: how it actually unfolded, what went down, how police were
Speaker 2: able to find him still known, but of course we
Speaker 2: will bring you these details as soon as we get them.
Speaker 1: Cassie has returned from maternity leave again briefly to release
Speaker 1: a six part podcast called Desi Freeman The Hunt. Just
Speaker 1: a note, in this episode, we will be referring to
Speaker 1: the killer by his birth name, Desmond Philby, not the
Speaker 1: name he's self appointed to himself in conjunction with his
Speaker 1: sovereign citizen beliefs. Cassie joins us now to take us
Speaker 1: behind the scenes of covering this extraordinary and horrifying case. Cassie,
Speaker 1: thank you for joining us on True Crime Conversations. Can
Speaker 1: you take me back to August twenty twenty five. Where
Speaker 1: were you at in your life and career at that
Speaker 1: point in time?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jim, thanks for having me. Wow, it seems like
Speaker 2: so long ago, even though it was only seven months ago.
Speaker 3: Wait months now.
Speaker 2: I was in my third trimester of pregnancy. It was
Speaker 2: a Tuesday morning. I was sent out to just another
Speaker 2: crime scene in Melbourne. I even remember what it was now,
Speaker 2: but I do remember sitting in the car, my cameramen's
Speaker 2: car because my feet, we saw, my back was sore,
Speaker 2: everything was aching. I was at that stage where I
Speaker 2: was sort of like waddling around and just just sort
Speaker 2: of counting down the days to maternity leave.
Speaker 3: And my phone is in my pocket and.
Speaker 2: I sort of was checking it and scrolling and I
Speaker 2: saw these messages that kind of pop up, and there
Speaker 2: were a number of text messages from contact saying there's
Speaker 2: been some sort of police incident in the Alpine region
Speaker 2: in Victoria and a number of members unaccounted for.
Speaker 3: And I was like, what does unaccount for me?
Speaker 2: And I actually said I'm like, excuse my ignorance, but
Speaker 2: what does unaccounting for me? And the message was Cass,
Speaker 2: I'll call you, and the conversation was we think there's
Speaker 2: been a police shooting and we think at least two
Speaker 2: members have been killed. And I remember sort of looking
Speaker 2: it was this weird moment because I looked out and
Speaker 2: it was it was raining and it was cold in Melbourne,
Speaker 2: and I looked out at the cameraman and I was like,
Speaker 2: is this happening?
Speaker 3: Like is this for real? And then thinking what do
Speaker 3: we do?
Speaker 2: Now. So it was just the process of calling the
Speaker 2: newsroom and hitting the road pretty much as soon as
Speaker 2: we got word that there was a major police incident.
Speaker 2: And because it was four and a half hours away
Speaker 2: from where we were in town, all we could do
Speaker 2: was just get there as soon as we could safely,
Speaker 2: of course.
Speaker 1: So without going home, getting supplies or anything. You just
Speaker 1: hit the road, straight to the scene, hit the road.
Speaker 2: I remember wearing boots with heels because I'd actually made
Speaker 2: plans with my husband that night to go out for dinner.
Speaker 3: And I was in like a maternity dress, a big
Speaker 3: kind of.
Speaker 2: Coke and that was it. That's all I had on me.
Speaker 2: I didn't have anything else, And to be honest, I
Speaker 2: didn't think I would be there for as long as
Speaker 2: I did. I genuinely thought by the time we arrived
Speaker 2: in Port Punka, the accused would have been in custody.
Speaker 3: I genuinely thought that.
Speaker 2: Because it was a good four and a half five
Speaker 2: hour drive. I thought by the time we get there,
Speaker 2: the narrative of the story would have changed and there
Speaker 2: would have been, you know, an angle of Okay, we've
Speaker 2: got court cases and they'll be charges and this kind
Speaker 2: of thing. But when I arrived in that that wasn't
Speaker 2: the case. There was still an active man hunt on.
Speaker 2: I was sort of hit me that I could be
Speaker 2: here for a while, and it turned out I was
Speaker 2: there for seventeen days straight.
Speaker 3: So wow.
Speaker 2: It was one of those things where yeah, and then
Speaker 2: like the messages were coming through from like big emergency
Speaker 2: saying if you can stay inside, active shooter on the run,
Speaker 2: do not approach Desmond Philby on the run, do not
Speaker 2: approach active shooter, and that those messages kept coming through,
Speaker 2: and we're obviously there and the police were there, and
Speaker 2: you're thinking are we safe? Like where could this guy be?
Speaker 2: Could he be hiding in playing sight? What's the situation here?
Speaker 2: So there were all these different emotions and feelings going on,
Speaker 2: but you sort of go into like the adrenaline kicks
Speaker 2: in and I almost forgot I was pregnant. It was
Speaker 2: just kind of like, Okay, I'm in work mode now.
Speaker 2: I want to do the best that I can do
Speaker 2: and cover this as the best that I can.
Speaker 3: And we were just waiting for the next update.
Speaker 1: Really, let's set the scene a bit for listeners of
Speaker 1: the area. We're talking about poor Punker Regional Victoria. Can
Speaker 1: you tell us about it. What's it like there.
Speaker 3: It's beautiful.
Speaker 2: It's the Alpine region, so there's beautiful mountain Buffalo in
Speaker 2: the background. And at the time in August, it was
Speaker 2: the end of August towards the start of September, it
Speaker 2: was freezing in Melbourne and the weather was awful, but
Speaker 2: there was actually snowfall, so it was like this beautiful
Speaker 2: part of the world, but freezing and tiny, quite rural,
Speaker 2: lots of farming properties. The area that the police were
Speaker 2: searching was really dense. The terrain was really dense. I'm
Speaker 2: on a camper, I'm not a hiker, I'm not like
Speaker 2: I'm not really familiar with that kind of those kind
Speaker 2: of activities. But a lot of people who other journalists
Speaker 2: through there had been camping there and had gone a
Speaker 2: weekend highs and it's a beautiful tourist town, so it's
Speaker 2: actually a really stunning part of the world and why
Speaker 2: lots of people decide to holiday there and you know,
Speaker 2: go on the camping trips and go on the snows
Speaker 2: trips as well.
Speaker 3: So it's but it's remote, it's very remote.
Speaker 2: And particularly Desmond's property, it was it was huge and
Speaker 2: from an outsider looking in like you drive past his
Speaker 2: street runing a track and you wouldn't know that there's
Speaker 2: a huge rural property there. But there's so many properties
Speaker 2: like it around that area where there's farmers and people
Speaker 2: who are running businesses for caravanning and camping, vanning and
Speaker 2: that kind of thing as well. So you've got a
Speaker 2: bit of everything there.
Speaker 1: And Philby's residence on this enormous property. It wasn't actually
Speaker 1: a house, was it. It was a bus.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like an old rundown bus.
Speaker 2: Was He turned it into I guess a house for
Speaker 2: him and his family. The owners of the actual property
Speaker 2: allowed him to stay there, but he didn't own the property,
Speaker 2: the actual land itself. He was just living on a
Speaker 2: bus on the property and he'd been living there for
Speaker 2: some time, I believe.
Speaker 3: But you know, this was a man who was anti society.
Speaker 2: He decided to homeschool his children, he didn't want to
Speaker 2: get his kids vaccinated, which you know, each to their own,
Speaker 2: but he made himself known in town for his beliefs,
Speaker 2: and particularly during COVID and that's something that we really
Speaker 2: sort of dick dive during this whole period of the
Speaker 2: man hunt, and particularly posted as well in the last
Speaker 2: few months.
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about what happened before we get to
Speaker 1: Bilbie's beliefs. It was about ten thirty in the morning
Speaker 1: and police were attending the property to execute a search warrant.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us the details of that. Why were
Speaker 1: they executing a search warrant?
Speaker 3: Sure?
Speaker 2: So there were allegations against Philby that historic child abuse
Speaker 2: allegations dating back to the past two years, and that's
Speaker 2: what Victoria Police came out and said. So it was
Speaker 2: very much fact. So it was a search warrant to
Speaker 2: go in and search and seize any potential evidence that
Speaker 2: could be held against him, and that's why they were there.
Speaker 3: It was a routine search warrant.
Speaker 2: Police do these kind of warrants almost every day for
Speaker 2: all different reasons, you know, And a lot of the
Speaker 2: people have come out and said, why if it was
Speaker 2: just a routine search warrant, why were there so many
Speaker 2: police officers there. And I've spoken to officers who have
Speaker 2: worked closely on this case, and they said, because the
Speaker 2: property is obviously so big, it's not unusual to have
Speaker 2: that many members attend a search warrant because it's a
Speaker 2: huge property and it's time, you know, being time efficient,
Speaker 2: and it's quite common even in Melbourne or even in
Speaker 2: like suburban warrants, it's quite common for there to be
Speaker 2: more numbers than not for safety reasons as well.
Speaker 3: But there was nothing unusual about this search warrant.
Speaker 2: They didn't believe he was capable of carrying out what
Speaker 2: he did that day, and I think that's something that
Speaker 2: will come out now in the coroner's inquest, which he's
Speaker 2: expected to begin in the next.
Speaker 3: Couple of months too.
Speaker 1: Let's go into Philby's background, because he was known to police.
Speaker 1: This wasn't the first time they'd had run ins with him.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us about him? To start with his name. Publicly,
Speaker 1: everyone will know him as Desmond Desi Bird Freeman. That's
Speaker 1: not his name, No.
Speaker 3: It's not. It's not Jaman.
Speaker 2: He actually changed his name, I believe in the late
Speaker 2: two thousands to Desi Freeman and the surname Freeman if
Speaker 2: you break it up, Freeman, and that's quite a popular
Speaker 2: name within the Sovereign citizen movement. He was born as
Speaker 2: Desmond Christopher Philby and that's what his family knew. He
Speaker 2: knew him as I've been speaking to some of his
Speaker 2: family members post everything. That's happened, and when I speak
Speaker 2: to them, they refer to him as Dares or Desmond.
Speaker 3: They don't make reference to that Freeman surname that he
Speaker 3: changed it to.
Speaker 2: He was, actually, you know, in his early teens, late teens,
Speaker 2: early twenties, really into the hippie movement and would go
Speaker 2: to and attend a lot of festivals that often spread
Speaker 2: messages of love and peace. And he was sort of
Speaker 2: going down that path. And then an associate of his
Speaker 2: that I had been speaking to throughout the past seven
Speaker 2: or so months said that all of a sudden, something
Speaker 2: switched in him, switched in him where he became quite
Speaker 2: angry and.
Speaker 3: Resented the world and authority.
Speaker 2: Nothing, there was no sort of like trigger point, Nothing
Speaker 2: really happened, but he always sort of questioned authority, you know,
Speaker 2: like why do I have to go to work? Why
Speaker 2: do I have to do this? Why do I have
Speaker 2: to perform with society? Why do I have to get
Speaker 2: a driver's license? Why can't I go to speed that
Speaker 2: I think is safe? And it's just like, well, it's
Speaker 2: the law, you've got it, do it, will do where
Speaker 2: you know it is? This is you know, I don't
Speaker 2: know necessarily always want to go to work, but you
Speaker 2: got to like, you've got bills to pay and this
Speaker 2: to do, and you know, there's responsibilities as an adult
Speaker 2: and as you get older, and he questioned that very
Speaker 2: early on, and so much so I believe the first
Speaker 2: time he's running with the police was with the New
Speaker 2: South Wales Police when he was like twenty one or
Speaker 2: twenty two, and it was for speeding and he.
Speaker 3: Copped a fine like you do, and he just refused
Speaker 3: to pay it.
Speaker 2: So he was sort of in and out of the
Speaker 2: court system from quite an early age. And it was
Speaker 2: often things like speeding fines, parking fines that he refused
Speaker 2: to pay.
Speaker 3: And then of course the COVID pandemic hit and that's when.
Speaker 2: His behavior really escalated, where you know, Victoria had probably
Speaker 2: the strictest lockdowns in the country, somewhat argue around the world,
Speaker 2: and you know, he refused to wear the mask, he
Speaker 2: refused to get the COVID vaccination. There were you know,
Speaker 2: the vision that is sub merge of him, like baiting
Speaker 2: police officers when they pull him over. Why are you
Speaker 2: not within you your five k radius of the rules?
Speaker 2: And and he just and his family said, he just
Speaker 2: his his mental health and his health really escalated from
Speaker 2: that moment onwards.
Speaker 3: But he never hurt.
Speaker 2: Or physically lashed out at a police officer. It was
Speaker 2: always verbal abuse.
Speaker 1: When you say sovereign citizen, is that just like an
Speaker 1: organized movement that he would be a part of. Is
Speaker 1: that a well run group for those that aren't aware, Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, a sovereign citizen is basically a person who thinks
Speaker 2: they're above the law, doesn't abide by society's laws, doesn't
Speaker 2: believe in the government, doesn't believe in police authority or
Speaker 2: essentially the laws.
Speaker 3: There's not necessarily like a group.
Speaker 2: There's a group, you know that there'd be people a
Speaker 2: movement or his associates, his friends, but in terms of
Speaker 2: actual group, I don't believe he was necessarily part of,
Speaker 2: you know, like a sovereign citizen group. It was just
Speaker 2: he was a self described sovereign citizen during the time
Speaker 2: of the pandemic, because the police would going to his
Speaker 2: house and checking on his kids because they weren't going
Speaker 2: to school and they weren't getting the vaccinations, and there
Speaker 2: was a lot of sort of welfare checks. He would
Speaker 2: go on his social media pages and rant and say
Speaker 2: that the authorities were out to get in purely because
Speaker 2: he didn't believe in abiding by the law.
Speaker 3: And the rules.
Speaker 2: And it got so bad that he would actually threaten
Speaker 2: authority online. I remember seeing a post that he wrote
Speaker 2: saying any good cop is a dead cop and described
Speaker 2: police as terrorist thugs.
Speaker 3: That's what he posted online. So there was so much
Speaker 3: hatred towards authority, and.
Speaker 2: It really escalated during the pandemic and post it as well.
Speaker 1: But in terms of like charges against him, was it
Speaker 1: more of these like nuisance charges like he's you know,
Speaker 1: verbally abusing or the speeding and stuff like that. There
Speaker 1: weren't actual serious charges on his criminal history before these
Speaker 1: allegations of child abuse.
Speaker 3: That's absolutely right. There was nothing.
Speaker 2: There was nothing, you know, obviously speeding, it's illegal parking,
Speaker 2: you know, not paying fines, but there was nothing like
Speaker 2: the allegations that we've since learned about.
Speaker 3: But in terms of the seriousness of.
Speaker 2: His offending, it wasn't violent, It wasn't It was more
Speaker 2: of a nuisance to authorities, and he would fight it
Speaker 2: and he would go through all the pages of the
Speaker 2: law and say, well, you know, under this section of
Speaker 2: this section and this and this, and it was almost
Speaker 2: it almost became a nuisance for the magistrates as well
Speaker 2: and the police, but it was never he was charged
Speaker 2: with anything incredibly criminal, if.
Speaker 3: That makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what about his kind of work life, family life?
Speaker 3: Did he have a job? Children knows that.
Speaker 2: And this is what I find quite interesting. He was
Speaker 2: actually on the doll so he was taking he was
Speaker 2: on a He claimed a disability pension or something like that,
Speaker 2: and I don't think he actually from speaking to his associates,
Speaker 2: he didn't have anything wrong, but he managed to find
Speaker 2: a loophole where he could claim.
Speaker 3: Tax payers money. So he was so anti government authority.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he was happy to take the money from
Speaker 2: from us. And that's the thing that gets med as well.
Speaker 2: You sort of think, Okay, was he a man who
Speaker 2: really wants to fight in a good fight in his
Speaker 2: own mind and in his world, but he's so happy
Speaker 2: to take money from the government.
Speaker 3: But he hadn't been working for years.
Speaker 2: When I spoke to a close relative of his, he
Speaker 2: actually said he wasn't able to hold down a job
Speaker 2: kind of for the same reasons. You know, you go
Speaker 2: to work in their rules. There are rules everywhere you go.
Speaker 2: That's just the world that that's the world, that's life
Speaker 2: that's life. He just couldn't handle it. He couldn't handle it.
Speaker 2: And these allegations that I've been told, you know what,
Speaker 2: police have since been able to.
Speaker 3: Find on his devices.
Speaker 2: Desmond actually told his family members, Oh, the police are
Speaker 2: coming after me over these you know, these lies.
Speaker 3: But I do believe.
Speaker 1: Police have since confirmed that they found child abuse material.
Speaker 2: Correct, So the devices that they see from Desmond's property,
Speaker 2: laptops and iPads, they were able to use specialized technology
Speaker 2: to download files from the from his devices, and there
Speaker 2: were hundreds and hundreds of child exploitation material found on
Speaker 2: his devices. And many people don't believe that, you know,
Speaker 2: obviously that's come out recently. And if you look at
Speaker 2: comments online, people who have the same beliefs as Desmond
Speaker 2: Philby and who are you know, supporters of him so
Speaker 2: to speak, they're saying, oh, it's fake news, the police
Speaker 2: are just out to get him. Which there's a whole
Speaker 2: other debate, like since since really deep diving into this
Speaker 2: movement and doing the podcast that we have done, the
Speaker 2: comments online, like I get messages daily being like he's
Speaker 2: still alive and to cover up all these different conspiracy
Speaker 2: theories that people genuinely believe, which is like a whole
Speaker 2: other thing.
Speaker 1: And we haven't got there yet, but that it's just
Speaker 1: so offensive to the victims of and the families that
Speaker 1: are grieving to hear all of that nonsense.
Speaker 2: And these are two men who went to work and
Speaker 2: should have come home, Like they put on a uniform,
Speaker 2: they go to their workplace, they do their job, and
Speaker 2: they should come home, and they didn't. And the people
Speaker 2: who are defending this man, it really makes you angry.
Speaker 2: And it almost like I've almost had to like mute
Speaker 2: notifications because you can't reason with these people.
Speaker 3: You're never going to change their minds.
Speaker 2: But because there's so many people who have the same
Speaker 2: thinking as him, it almost terrifies you because you're like,
Speaker 2: what kind of society are we living in where people
Speaker 2: are celebrating this person when they should be mourning the
Speaker 2: deaths of two good men.
Speaker 3: It just it really baffles me and makes me, actually
Speaker 3: makes me very angry.
Speaker 1: After the break, we talk about how a search warrant
Speaker 1: at Desmond's property escalated into a shooting. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: the circumstances the incident that led to the deaths of
Speaker 1: Fadim O'Neil. They arrived for this search warrant. There's a
Speaker 1: number of officers, I believe nine. How did it escalate
Speaker 1: into a shooting?
Speaker 2: So what I've my ownstanding of what happened that day
Speaker 2: is Neil was and had a lot of dealings with
Speaker 2: Desmond in the past, with you know, being in town.
Speaker 2: Neil was a thirty seven year police veteran of the force.
Speaker 2: He he knew everyone, you know, and he was just
Speaker 2: days out from retirement, and he thought, I've dealt with
Speaker 2: this guy before, I'll leave the team in.
Speaker 3: It'll be like another another search warrant.
Speaker 2: And I understand that there was a lot of back
Speaker 2: and forth.
Speaker 3: Desmond refused to come out of the bus.
Speaker 2: So what police would have done is they would have
Speaker 2: entered the property and they've got all the right paperwork saying,
Speaker 2: you know, we've got a search want we got here
Speaker 2: to execute a search warrant? Desmond, anyone else inside please
Speaker 2: come out. His wife, Marley was also inside the bus
Speaker 2: at the time. I understand she was actually breastfeeding their
Speaker 2: youngest child, their baby, and they refused to come out,
Speaker 2: and there was this standoff for some time.
Speaker 3: I don't in terms of time frame how long it
Speaker 3: went on for.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but during what I've been told, during
Speaker 2: that period, Desmond's behavior and language really escalated. He was
Speaker 2: becoming very angry, very volatile. You know, in his mind,
Speaker 2: he was there to protect his family. This is my property.
Speaker 2: You're not welcome on my property.
Speaker 3: Leave, leave, leave. And then it got to the point
Speaker 3: where the police ended up.
Speaker 2: Going in and Neil, being the true leader that he was,
Speaker 2: he led his team in and he was the first
Speaker 2: to get shot, which was just absolutely tragic, and then
Speaker 2: the dim was behind him, and then my understanding is
Speaker 2: everything from that moment was very quick and a bit
Speaker 2: of a blur for.
Speaker 3: The other members.
Speaker 2: Desmond tried to fire at the third female police sergeant,
Speaker 2: but it didn't go off. You can only imagine how
Speaker 2: she would have felt in that moment, but also months
Speaker 2: later as well. And there was another other police officer
Speaker 2: who was shot in the leg, and my understanding is
Speaker 2: that he had to take shelter under the bus until
Speaker 2: more backup arrived. But it's just it's when you think
Speaker 2: about it, these men and women, you know that they're
Speaker 2: there to protect their job as a police officers, to
Speaker 2: protect the community, and that's what they were doing. There
Speaker 2: were some serious allegations against Desmond, and they were there
Speaker 2: to seize evidence, and for whatever reason, he thought in
Speaker 2: his sick minds, no, you're not coming onto my property.
Speaker 2: It's my right to do to protect my property in
Speaker 2: my family, and that's what he decided to do, firing
Speaker 2: the gun in front of his wife, in front of his.
Speaker 3: Baby, and he's middle child.
Speaker 2: His middle son was also there who witnessed the ordeal
Speaker 2: as well the shooting as well. So just a really
Speaker 2: dark day for obviously the force and a force that's
Speaker 2: still incredibly grieving with what's happened.
Speaker 3: And I don't think I don't think members.
Speaker 2: Who work in that and that region and members who
Speaker 2: worked with for Dim, I understand he was actually working
Speaker 2: in the Public Order Response team and he was on
Speaker 2: a sir comment in Langerado, And I've spoken to a
Speaker 2: lot of members from the Port unit and they're not
Speaker 2: the same. How can you be because you sort of think, oh,
Speaker 2: that could have been me on the comment, you know,
Speaker 2: starting in my career and what I've been told for
Speaker 2: Dim just showed so much potential as a police officer
Speaker 2: as well, and learning from his colleagues and from senior members, well.
Speaker 1: I believe for dim was actually only therefore, he was
Speaker 1: only supposed to be there for a week. He was
Speaker 1: dealing with the snow crowds. This is a man that
Speaker 1: wasn't even supposed to He doesn't even live in that area.
Speaker 1: He's from Melbourne, that's where he lives and works. And
Speaker 1: he went to help out on a search warrant while
Speaker 1: there for to help with tourism and snow and he
Speaker 1: lost his life.
Speaker 2: And it's just when you break it down like that
Speaker 2: and you think, wasn't supposed to be there. Had he
Speaker 2: not have taken their comment, howd he have gone to
Speaker 2: a different region? All the what ifs, you know, that's
Speaker 2: what plays in your head.
Speaker 3: What if? What if they had more heavily armed police
Speaker 3: that went in. What if? Well, all the what is?
Speaker 2: What if Desmond decided to come out and actually do
Speaker 2: what he was told?
Speaker 3: And you know, my understanding is they didn't know that
Speaker 3: he was armed.
Speaker 2: He actually lost his firearms license years ago, so my
Speaker 2: understanding was that he didn't There was no awareness that
Speaker 2: he had weapons inside that bus. Had police have known that,
Speaker 2: there would have been the Critical Incident Response Team there,
Speaker 2: potentially even the Special Operations Group, the Victoria's most elite
Speaker 2: police squad and they have the right equipment to deal
Speaker 2: with offenders like Desmond Philby.
Speaker 1: I shared with listeners a bit earlier, a little bit
Speaker 1: about Vidim and about Neil, But can you tell us
Speaker 1: about their funerals, about the outpouring of grief and love
Speaker 1: for these two men.
Speaker 2: The services were just beautiful, the love and the police
Speaker 2: chapel and the guard of honor that they did.
Speaker 3: It was it stops you in your tracks.
Speaker 2: For Vidim's funeral, for listeners who don't know, was from Belgium,
Speaker 2: so his family flew to Melbourne, and I remember seeing
Speaker 2: his mother and she was dressed in so much color,
Speaker 2: and there were songs that were play throughout the service,
Speaker 2: and often she would stop and sing along while crying.
Speaker 2: And that was just this, so much raw emotion for
Speaker 2: DIM's brother got up and spoke and told the chapel
Speaker 2: of for DIM's love for Batman and how he'd often
Speaker 2: where Batman socks under his unifor his police uniform and
Speaker 2: go to work and wear his Batman socks under the
Speaker 2: Victoria police uniform. And he stood up for DIM's brother
Speaker 2: and said, he was my real life superhero.
Speaker 3: He was my very own Batman, and he asked.
Speaker 2: The mourners to remember for Dim for the way that
Speaker 2: he lived and not for the way that he died.
Speaker 3: And I think that was a really.
Speaker 2: Powerful message because obviously during the time of the funerals,
Speaker 2: there was still an active manhunt going on. Esmond was
Speaker 2: still somewhere out in the community. So you've got the
Speaker 2: police chapel packed with hundreds and hunt I think it
Speaker 2: almost got to over a thousand people, and those people
Speaker 2: on the street that sort of spilled out onto the
Speaker 2: road and they had to close roads down for the
Speaker 2: Guard of Honor.
Speaker 3: And all these men and women in blue grieving.
Speaker 2: And then you got the other side of it, where
Speaker 2: you've got, you know, five hours away, an active man hunt,
Speaker 2: and that morning police on the ground they were they said,
Speaker 2: we never felt more determined to find justice for the
Speaker 2: families of Nil and Dim. And obviously it came months later,
Speaker 2: but there was this real hunger and real determination that
Speaker 2: the police just said, we are not going to give up.
Speaker 2: And obviously this story led our news bulletins night after night,
Speaker 2: and the search itself started to slow, like from what
Speaker 2: resource picture wise, you know, started to slow down, and
Speaker 2: we'd asked, you know, in press conferences down the track
Speaker 2: or how many members do you still have there? And
Speaker 2: our chief commission, like Mike Bush, he came out and said,
Speaker 2: we will not give up until there's justice. It might
Speaker 2: take weeks, months, years, but we are determined to find justice.
Speaker 2: And so everyone else gets on with their lives, and
Speaker 2: you know, the headlines change and the top story of
Speaker 2: the news of the day changes. But these are people
Speaker 2: who kept fighting, kept looking, following up all the tip offs.
Speaker 2: There were thousands and thousands of tip offs to crime stoppers,
Speaker 2: and there were a lot of false leads.
Speaker 3: There are a lot of false sightings.
Speaker 2: People who thought they may have seen in the local Woolworths,
Speaker 2: the local calls, oh yeah, we think we've seen Desmond,
Speaker 2: and so of course police have to follow that up
Speaker 2: because what if it was that critical tip of if
Speaker 2: that eventually that eventually did come this year. So I
Speaker 2: just think it was a remarkable effort by by a team,
Speaker 2: by a force that was grieving, hurting, they were angry,
Speaker 2: they were emotional, and they just kept going and then
Speaker 2: you've got Neil's funeral. So Vidim started his career in
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. He was very much at the start of
Speaker 2: you know, he was just going up, up, up, whereas
Speaker 2: Neil was at the other end. He was days out
Speaker 2: from retirement. I believe the day of Vidim's funeral. Neil
Speaker 2: was actually supposed to retire that day, that's my understanding.
Speaker 2: And he was described as a man who you know,
Speaker 2: you know those people where you walk into a room
Speaker 2: and you've got their attention and they make you feel
Speaker 2: like you're the only person that matters. He was that
Speaker 2: kind of guy that would make you feel like you're
Speaker 2: the only person that mattered. And I feel like those
Speaker 2: people have this special art of making people feel special.
Speaker 2: And you know, our days are busy and our lives
Speaker 2: are busy, and he was a busy man, you know,
Speaker 2: protecting his community, but he would make the community feel
Speaker 2: loved and special in his colleagues, particularly his colleagues, and
Speaker 2: true to form, he said, yeah, I'll do one last
Speaker 2: I'll help my team one last time.
Speaker 3: I retire and enjoy my retirement years. And that was
Speaker 3: the decision that essentially cost him his life, which I
Speaker 3: just think, you know, when you think about it, God like,
Speaker 3: you work so hard, and.
Speaker 2: He worked so hard and just had so much to
Speaker 2: look forward to, and it was taken away from him,
Speaker 2: and it's just so much grief.
Speaker 3: I think for both of those funerals.
Speaker 1: I think for the colleagues of these two men, you
Speaker 1: have to remember that they do a very very dangerous job,
Speaker 1: so when they lose people, it's like it does happen.
Speaker 1: We have lost quite a number of police officers in
Speaker 1: Australia and then they have to go out and continue
Speaker 1: doing the dangerous job and try and find the person
Speaker 1: that killed one.
Speaker 3: Of their colleagues.
Speaker 1: It's just it's really hard to imagine having to do
Speaker 1: that like that, that's your job. You have to just
Speaker 1: kind of put the uniform back on and go out
Speaker 1: there and find the guy.
Speaker 2: And I spoke to the Police Police Association union boss
Speaker 2: Wayne Gatt, and I asked him, I said, this is
Speaker 2: probably going to sound like a really dumb question, but
Speaker 2: I'm going to ask it anyway, and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: of course. And I said, when the manhunt was going on,
Speaker 2: and you know, the hours turned into days and the
Speaker 2: days turned into weeks, was.
Speaker 3: The feeling for members Were they scared?
Speaker 2: Were they worried that, you know, this was a person
Speaker 2: they were looking for who would kill again, who was armed,
Speaker 2: who was dangerous. He stole a police firearm, and he said, Cassie,
Speaker 2: these are members who chose to stand in the dark
Speaker 2: on busy roads at roadblocks because it was almost safer
Speaker 2: for them to stand in the dark on a road
Speaker 2: than be out, you know, on display in case Desmond
Speaker 2: came across them. And as everyone knows, it's never safe
Speaker 2: to stand in the dark on a road, but in
Speaker 2: their minds it was. And I think that just shows
Speaker 2: the severity of the situation, just how they were feeling.
Speaker 2: They wanted to obviously find him, but they I mean,
Speaker 2: everyone wants to.
Speaker 3: Go home at the end of the day of their workdays.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned that you were on location for seventeen days.
Speaker 1: So at the start of that man hunt, did you
Speaker 1: feel scared there was a man with a gun running around?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I really did.
Speaker 2: I Actually it's when I arrived in Port Punker, I
Speaker 2: think I was in sort of gay mode, like there
Speaker 2: was a job to do, there was so much adrenaline.
Speaker 3: But I remember getting back to the motel that night.
Speaker 2: And in my heart I genuinely thought this they'd find
Speaker 2: it straightaway, like I'd be there for maybe a couple
Speaker 2: of days, we'd go.
Speaker 3: To court, and we'd come back.
Speaker 2: When I went back to the motel that night, and
Speaker 2: it was windy and I just couldn't sleep because I
Speaker 2: was like, this guy could be anywhere. This man could
Speaker 2: be hiding in the bush, he could you know, you know,
Speaker 2: at night time, everything.
Speaker 3: Just seems worse as well.
Speaker 2: And we were doing were yeah, we were doing door
Speaker 2: knocks the next day. So as a journal, like what
Speaker 2: we do is we go to properties nearby where something
Speaker 2: has happened, and we're trying and get as much information
Speaker 2: or get interviews with people. And I remember myself and
Speaker 2: a couple of the other TV journals, we were like,
Speaker 2: let's do it together because the properties are so big,
Speaker 2: and I was tired, like I was waddling around. I
Speaker 2: was like, I just want to work smarter, not harder, almost,
Speaker 2: And we knocked on a property next to Desmond's and
Speaker 2: it was a big rural properties, so it took a
Speaker 2: while for the for the owner to come out, the
Speaker 2: person who lived there to come out. All of a sudden,
Speaker 2: dogs starts running over to us and I was like,
Speaker 2: that's a good dog's fine.
Speaker 3: And this man emerges and he's got a.
Speaker 2: Gun over over his shoulder and I'm looking at my
Speaker 2: cameraman thinking.
Speaker 3: I don't feel good. I'm like, we're defenseless here.
Speaker 2: Not that I think he would do anything, but you
Speaker 2: don't know, there were no police around, and he just goes,
Speaker 2: who are you And we just all said, all the
Speaker 2: boy from the media, we're following up, you know what happened.
Speaker 3: And he just didn't say anything. And I just said,
Speaker 3: we're going to go. We're going to go, and that's scary.
Speaker 3: He looked at us and he goes up yeah, and
Speaker 3: he goes I just goes, I think that's a good idea.
Speaker 2: And I remember getting in that car and I said
Speaker 2: to my camera and let's go, like, we're not going
Speaker 2: back there, and he would. I just when someone comes
Speaker 2: out with a gun and you're you know, I'm I
Speaker 2: was like thirty two weeks pregnant, I think at the time,
Speaker 2: and you sort of think, God, like, what am I doing?
Speaker 3: Like this is what's what's the reward versus the risk
Speaker 3: in this situation?
Speaker 2: And I remember speaking to some of the members from
Speaker 2: a Special Operations Group because there were so many roadblocks,
Speaker 2: like you'd go to get Mine check point and they're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: you can go to there, but don't go anywhere further.
Speaker 2: But you know, people were getting around and there's always
Speaker 2: different ways to get around to get the best spot,
Speaker 2: to get the best location where police were going in
Speaker 2: and searching and everything.
Speaker 3: And this Special Operations Group member and he's in like.
Speaker 2: Full bulletproofessed helmet, everything, and he comes over to our
Speaker 2: car and he goes, I'm not going to tell you
Speaker 2: guys how to do your job, but we've got the
Speaker 2: full gear on. So where as protected as we can be,
Speaker 2: you don't have a helmet on, you don't.
Speaker 3: Have a vest on.
Speaker 2: This man hates the authority, he hates mainstream media, he
Speaker 2: hates police.
Speaker 3: He's just killed two of our own. I wouldn't be
Speaker 3: here if I was you.
Speaker 2: And I remember going, no worries, we're out, and I
Speaker 2: remember just saying to all the other crews, this is
Speaker 2: just not worth it, Like this is you know, we're
Speaker 2: here to do our job, We're here to cover a story.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, like nah, like
Speaker 2: I'm not risking anything, and hearing it from someone who
Speaker 2: is so oh no, and I was.
Speaker 3: Like, I've got my belly, and you know I've got nothing.
Speaker 2: I've got my At that point, I think my dress
Speaker 2: was five days old, and you know you're running on
Speaker 2: empty a bit because being pregnant as tiring as it is.
Speaker 2: Plus you know all the live cross commitments and you're
Speaker 2: not sleeping because there's an active shooter on the run,
Speaker 2: and just all the emotions said to my cameraman, let's
Speaker 2: get a coffee, let's get a hot pie, let's just
Speaker 2: take a breather.
Speaker 3: And at the end of the day where a tame.
Speaker 2: We've got to agree on everything, and I just said
Speaker 2: if we miss something, I'll wear it.
Speaker 3: I don't know at this point, we're all just doing
Speaker 3: our best right now.
Speaker 2: So there were just all these different layers of difficulty
Speaker 2: to covering this story and also making sure that you
Speaker 2: covered it in a way where, because you know family
Speaker 2: member's place are watching everything, you want to do the
Speaker 2: best you can in a way where you're not disrespecting
Speaker 2: force or adding any trauma to the families that are
Speaker 2: already going through so much too.
Speaker 3: So yeah, there was a lot to take into consideration. Definitely.
Speaker 1: Up next the moment Kathy's maternity leave was interrupted by
Speaker 1: the news that Desmond had been found dead. So if
Speaker 1: you were thirty two ish weeks pregnant. You went on
Speaker 1: maternity leave not long after all of this happened. Were
Speaker 1: you able to Obviously, having a baby is very time
Speaker 1: consuming and it changes your whole world. Were you able
Speaker 1: to park this story or were you constantly kind of
Speaker 1: checking in.
Speaker 2: I remember when I went on leave, I said to
Speaker 2: my boss, I'll only come back if Desmond is found
Speaker 2: to cover it. But I genuinely didn't think it would happen.
Speaker 2: While I was off, I'd spoken to a lot of
Speaker 2: officers who were working on this case, and you know,
Speaker 2: at the start of the year, they put out an
Speaker 2: alert saying that they brought in Cadava dogs, which are
Speaker 2: dogs that are trying to specifically smell sniff out human remains.
Speaker 2: So when I went on leave, I was sort of like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going to happen, but I just
Speaker 2: really wanted to enjoy that baby bubble as well. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so it's a bit of a me It's a weird feeling,
Speaker 2: like as someone who's like put their career first, just
Speaker 2: forever really, and then you sort of pause that to
Speaker 2: focus on something completely different.
Speaker 3: It was a bit of a mix.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was sort of checking in every now and
Speaker 2: then but I didn't know how I would feel if
Speaker 2: it was to happen.
Speaker 3: And then of course it did happen, and then it
Speaker 3: was like just.
Speaker 2: I still can't like it was just a massive blur
Speaker 2: when it did, because I just didn't think it was
Speaker 2: going to happen while I was off.
Speaker 1: Well, it happened when you had a if I'm correct,
Speaker 1: three month old baby, like you were very much in
Speaker 1: the depths of postpartum.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like a Monday morning and I'm trying
Speaker 2: to get back and like, exercise for me is sort
Speaker 2: of like my outlet and I love doing it before
Speaker 2: I felt pregnant, and I'm a lot of getting back
Speaker 2: into it. So I joined a mum of Bubbs gym class,
Speaker 2: you know, nearby my house.
Speaker 3: And Monday's always.
Speaker 2: Chaotic, as is let alone when you've got a baby,
Speaker 2: and I've got two step kids that are with us
Speaker 2: full time as well, so I'm just trying to get
Speaker 2: everyone to school, trying to you know, clean vomit off
Speaker 2: me and my watch. I had a Apple Watch on
Speaker 2: and just kept vibrating and I was like, oh, someone's
Speaker 2: you know, must be something on Instagram sending me funny
Speaker 2: reels or something.
Speaker 3: And then I must have.
Speaker 2: Looked down and it caught my eye because I was like,
Speaker 2: DF found and in my head, I'm like DF and
Speaker 2: it took me.
Speaker 3: A good couple of seconds to process.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, they're talking about Desmond Philby and then
Speaker 2: the next message DF dead. And so I'm standing in
Speaker 2: my living room. My husband's working at the table and
Speaker 2: I'm holding the baby and I'm and I'm like what, And.
Speaker 3: I walk over to him. He's like, what's wrong.
Speaker 2: You're going to gym and I'm like, I think they've
Speaker 2: just found Desmond and I think he's been killed. And
Speaker 2: I remember my husband was like deep in whatever he
Speaker 2: was doing, and he sort of always looked at me.
Speaker 2: He's like actually, and I'm like I think so yeah,
Speaker 2: because I give me the baby, make calls to what
Speaker 2: you've got to do. So I'm handing the baby over
Speaker 2: call the newsroom and I'm like, I'm so sorry, like sorry,
Speaker 2: like I hadn't I didn't have the TV on, so
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure what was on morning.
Speaker 3: News and everything, and I'm like, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: If this is like old information, and they're like, no,
Speaker 2: this is not old information. You're going to break it.
Speaker 2: Right now on live television. And I'm like, I haven't
Speaker 2: done a live cross in or five months. I don't know,
Speaker 2: I can't string acent, I've had no sleep, I've got
Speaker 2: no I don't know where my makeup bag is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we ended up we ended up doing it.
Speaker 2: I remember going like after we came off their, my
Speaker 2: husband said, are you sure you're right?
Speaker 3: Like, are you sure it's him?
Speaker 2: But during a live cross, Victoria Police sent out a
Speaker 2: media alert confirming that it was So call my mom
Speaker 2: and I said, Mom, I need you to come over
Speaker 2: and help with the baby. And she raced over and
Speaker 2: cameraman came to my house and it was just a
Speaker 2: long four and a half hour drive to where the
Speaker 2: scene was. And I this time had more time to
Speaker 2: a chance to pack things, and I remember all I
Speaker 2: took was my spectral breastpot.
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's all I really.
Speaker 2: Need right here.
Speaker 3: But I didn't realize it was like on one bar
Speaker 3: of charge, so it actually died on the way there.
Speaker 2: So I had to get the cameraman to stop at
Speaker 2: baby bunting in Aubrey so I could get like one
Speaker 2: of those like let down things.
Speaker 3: And it was just the whole thing. It was just like,
Speaker 3: it's just a crime scene done completely differently.
Speaker 1: But no, but these are the logistics that people don't understand,
Speaker 1: like your three months postpart and you've got a breastfed baby,
Speaker 1: you're trying to break a story like that's Cassie, that's
Speaker 1: a lot to deal with.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It was you know when you're in the moment and
Speaker 2: you're like, all right, I've just got to do what
Speaker 2: I've got to do and then I'll worry about everything
Speaker 2: else afterwards. It was kind of like that, like I
Speaker 2: was so determined to get there. My husband was like,
Speaker 2: you know, you were so invested in this. You've got
Speaker 2: I have a lot of you know, police officers who
Speaker 2: are just friends that like, you know, get coffee.
Speaker 3: With and whatever, and this is something that really.
Speaker 2: Affected them and the way that they went about working
Speaker 2: in the months that followed. And for me, it was
Speaker 2: almost like I needed personal closure in covering a story
Speaker 2: like this and to do it right and to do
Speaker 2: it I hope where the families felt like, you know,
Speaker 2: as best as it could have been dealt with. And
Speaker 2: it wasn't about thinking, oh I'm going to you know,
Speaker 2: come in on that leave and do it. I didn't
Speaker 2: even think of it. It was just like I put my
Speaker 2: journalist my journalist hat came back on and I parked
Speaker 2: my mum one for a bit and then you've got
Speaker 2: all the feelings. Four and a half hours is a
Speaker 2: long time to get from A to B. And my
Speaker 2: phone was blowing, you know, there was interviews and crosses
Speaker 2: and everything, and I kept thinking, am I doing the
Speaker 2: right thing? Like? Am I doing the right thing? And
Speaker 2: it was too late. I was already three hours doing
Speaker 2: up the road and it was again, it was adrenaline.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't until I sort of stopped in the
Speaker 2: evening that night and I thought, I just really want
Speaker 2: to get home now and see my baby and.
Speaker 3: Made her and get the milk out.
Speaker 2: And it was dealing with that too, Like I was
Speaker 2: pumping in between news commitments on the side of a
Speaker 2: road when there's a crime scene and you've got people
Speaker 2: kind of walking past, go oh, well, can't look at you.
Speaker 2: You're you know, got your boob out on the side
Speaker 2: of the road, and I'm like trying to do it
Speaker 2: discreetly and trying to get my head in it.
Speaker 3: Hey, I got to say this.
Speaker 2: I got to say that I can't do this, you
Speaker 2: can't do it, you know, just just balancing it all and.
Speaker 3: We got there in the end.
Speaker 1: I definitely couldn't have done that three months postpartum, so
Speaker 1: kudos to you. Can you tell us how police found
Speaker 1: Desi and how it ended in him being killed.
Speaker 3: He was killed on March thirty this year.
Speaker 2: My understanding what I've been told from contacts is that
Speaker 2: they received this critical tip off just a week before
Speaker 2: and from there they didn't think. Their initial reaction was like, okay,
Speaker 2: well we'll check it out. And the biggest thing for
Speaker 2: them is of course identifying that the person that they're
Speaker 2: looking for is Desmond. But I understand too, it had
Speaker 2: been seven months at that point. His appearance was very different.
Speaker 2: His hair had grown, he had beard and everything. So
Speaker 2: once they realized this, he's here, Yep, he's alive.
Speaker 3: He's here.
Speaker 2: This is the man we've been looking for for seven months.
Speaker 2: It's their risk assessment. So is there anyone else with him?
Speaker 2: Are the people coming and going? Are there who's living
Speaker 2: at this property? Who owns this property? Are there any
Speaker 2: kind of you know, traps that he may have set
Speaker 2: up for an ambush?
Speaker 3: Are their paths where he can get away?
Speaker 2: What this.
Speaker 3: You know, he was living inside a shipping container.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if this is how in depth police
Speaker 2: were thinking, but just ways that he could escape, so
Speaker 2: there's a risk assessment and making sure that he's there,
Speaker 2: yeah it's him, and making sure there's no one else there.
Speaker 2: Once all of those things were ticked off, it was
Speaker 2: then gay modes. So obviously these are you know, confidential
Speaker 2: ways that they carry out operations like this. But Special
Speaker 2: Operations Group were called in and they surrounded the property.
Speaker 2: They went in at five point thirty in the morning
Speaker 2: Monday that Monday, March thirty, and their goal was to
Speaker 2: get him into custody.
Speaker 3: They didn't want to kill him, they didn't want to
Speaker 3: shoot him.
Speaker 2: They had a police and agotiator there and that person's
Speaker 2: job is to purely negotiate with the suspect, with the accused,
Speaker 2: and that is to get this man out safely, handcuffed,
Speaker 2: no one else injured, no one else hurt, and intercut
Speaker 2: and you know, interviewed it into the cells.
Speaker 3: Once that.
Speaker 2: Wasn't going the way that they had originally planned for,
Speaker 2: they things escalated during the police negotiations with Desmond. There
Speaker 2: were things that he was saying to the officers there.
Speaker 3: That only he would know.
Speaker 2: So I don't know what was said between them and
Speaker 2: the team that was there. But after the fact, when
Speaker 2: police confirmed that it was him, they said, you know,
Speaker 2: there was things that he was saying about what happened
Speaker 2: on August twenty sixth last year that only he would know.
Speaker 2: And his demeanor became so volatile that he started to
Speaker 2: defend what he did that day, why he killed the police,
Speaker 2: why he decided to open fire. And so you've got
Speaker 2: a team of police who are grieving, but whoever job
Speaker 2: to do, and you never want to act out of
Speaker 2: anger or out of rage, so they've got to just
Speaker 2: sort of almost like in one ear out the other
Speaker 2: kind of just focus on what you've got to do
Speaker 2: to get this man out safely or then what ended
Speaker 2: up happening. So because he refused to come out, they
Speaker 2: used this tool on the bear Cat that essentially pierces
Speaker 2: the shipping container and they use like a capsicum spray
Speaker 2: or like an oc spray to essentially like smoke bomb
Speaker 2: him out. I'm not sure if you've ever had capsicum
Speaker 2: spray in your eyes, were down your throat, but it
Speaker 2: is brutal, like it really throws you off it, sorry,
Speaker 2: im takes you. So that's what they wanted to do,
Speaker 2: and it worked. He eventually emerged. He was wrapped in
Speaker 2: a donner, but he was holding the police firearm that
Speaker 2: he stole and as soon as they saw the gun,
Speaker 2: and my understanding now is that he did, there was
Speaker 2: cross they were shots fired. That's when police opened fire
Speaker 2: on Desmond and killed him and shot him dead.
Speaker 1: Can he take us through the reaction from his community
Speaker 1: when that happened, because they didn't even believe it, did
Speaker 1: they No.
Speaker 2: So it's this online community of like minded people to
Speaker 2: Desmond who believe they're above the law, and many commented
Speaker 2: saying it's not true, it's fake news, it's not real.
Speaker 3: He's still alive.
Speaker 2: Then there was other people saying, oh, he was actually
Speaker 2: killed on August twenty six and this is just a
Speaker 2: huge police cover up. And the comments were just coming
Speaker 2: in coming in. You're like, do you bother responding or
Speaker 2: do you just leave it? And my take was I'm
Speaker 2: just I can't. I'm not going to change his people's minds.
Speaker 2: If they can't see the evil and what Desmond has
Speaker 2: done and carried out, you're not going to convince them otherwise,
Speaker 2: So I'm like, I'm not going to waste my time,
Speaker 2: energy and emotions on these people.
Speaker 3: So you've got that side of it.
Speaker 2: Then you've got the community and Bright and in Port
Speaker 2: Punker who are so angry at Desmond for what he's
Speaker 2: done and for what he's done to their community as well,
Speaker 2: because they said, we're not all like this, we don't
Speaker 2: all have these sick beliefs. We love the police and
Speaker 2: you know, we follow the rules and we follow the law.
Speaker 2: And a lot of them actually donated food and coffee
Speaker 2: to the officers who were working relentlessly for the seven
Speaker 2: months that were based there for so long. So you've
Speaker 2: got that side of it. You've got all these different
Speaker 2: little sides of a town that's grieving in their own way.
Speaker 2: And then of course you've got Desmond's family. So his
Speaker 2: son actually posted pretty soon after this long post on
Speaker 2: Facebook in their community page basically just saying that those
Speaker 2: people who are celebrating my dad's death, you know you're
Speaker 2: with this and that and and he said what my
Speaker 2: dad did was wrong and he should never have done that,
Speaker 2: but he's my dad, and people who were celebrating his death,
Speaker 2: you know this is not nice, it's not fair, and
Speaker 2: and so there's just all these elements to it of grief.
Speaker 2: But the biggest one, of course, was for the families
Speaker 2: of Neil and for dim like, this is a man
Speaker 2: who had been on the run for so long and
Speaker 2: so many unknowns, like, you know, was he alive, was
Speaker 2: he dead? Everyone had a theory. Everyone thought, oh, he's
Speaker 2: done this, or he's gone here, or at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, you've got two families who you know,
Speaker 2: finding him is not going to bring their love once back.
Speaker 2: But it's a little bit of I can only imagine
Speaker 2: it would be a little bit of closure.
Speaker 1: I think it's also unfair for these conspiracy theorists because
Speaker 1: that's what they are, and I remember dealing with them
Speaker 1: during COVID as a journalist as well, and their beliefs
Speaker 1: just get so warped and they get so kind of
Speaker 1: removed from reality and say things like you're celebrating his death. No,
Speaker 1: they were probably relieved it was over and that, you know,
Speaker 1: it had finally come to an end. These people aren't
Speaker 1: cheering that the man's died. They're just glad it's over,
Speaker 1: and it was.
Speaker 2: I think you're right, it's that it's that it was over,
Speaker 2: like that man hunt, the search for Desmond, the appeals,
Speaker 2: the you know, there'd always be like little oh potential
Speaker 2: sighting was it was it is he there? Or is
Speaker 2: he here? Or the gossip as well. I think kind
Speaker 2: of puts an end to that town gossip. But with
Speaker 2: that said, there are still, like you mentioned, the people
Speaker 2: who genuinely think that it's a police cover up and
Speaker 2: it's or you know, the police are out to get him,
Speaker 2: and like it's I personally can't see.
Speaker 3: Any sense in any of that.
Speaker 2: And to me, anyone who is murdered the way that
Speaker 2: for Dim and Neil and had their lives taken from
Speaker 2: them in such a violent way, there's no ifs, there's
Speaker 2: no butts. It's evil, it's brutal. And they didn't deserve
Speaker 2: to die like that. No one deserves to die like that.
Speaker 2: Everyone deserves to go home to their families and loved
Speaker 2: ones at the end of their working day, and they didn't.
Speaker 2: And people defending Desmond, like I said, you just can't.
Speaker 3: It makes you angry.
Speaker 2: It makes even talking about it, you're like, oh, I
Speaker 2: just it infuriates you, because how can you be so
Speaker 2: cold herded to think there's any sense to it.
Speaker 1: I think you're juggling a baby, You're juggling step kids everything.
Speaker 1: Is this a story that you have found quite defining
Speaker 1: in your career covering this?
Speaker 2: I think it has been, but not by choice, if
Speaker 2: that makes sense. Like for me, my job has always
Speaker 2: been really important to me, and I think being a
Speaker 2: journalist is a privilege. And I think covering news and
Speaker 2: giving people a voice and maybe they don't have a
Speaker 2: voice or can't get their message across is It's something
Speaker 2: that I don't take for granted ever. But I think
Speaker 2: this story, I think because it just went on for
Speaker 2: so long, and I think the added layer of like
Speaker 2: you know, I was pregnant with my daughter when the
Speaker 2: man Hutt was on, and then my daughter was here
Speaker 2: when they found him.
Speaker 3: It's just like all these different little bits to it.
Speaker 3: I think for me, my.
Speaker 2: Biggest thing is I never I always want to treat
Speaker 2: people that I interview and speak to you with respect.
Speaker 3: And I have a lot of respect for the police.
Speaker 3: I think what they do is bloody hard work. And
Speaker 3: you know, when.
Speaker 2: I spoke to Wayne Gatt, the union, the police union boss,
Speaker 2: he said, post COVID is so much anger towards police,
Speaker 2: and we see it like in protests. There's almost a
Speaker 2: protest every single weekend in Melbourne, and I see.
Speaker 3: What they have to put up with. And it's only
Speaker 3: because they're in uniform.
Speaker 2: If they took the uniform off, they probably would have
Speaker 2: be spoken to the way that they'd spoken to it.
Speaker 2: It's the uniform that upsets people. And I think my
Speaker 2: job is really important. And I I remember saying to
Speaker 2: my boss at the time after all this happened, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't want.
Speaker 3: This to be about me, Like this is about them.
Speaker 3: This is about Neil and the dim in the forest.
Speaker 2: So I just I just want to do the best
Speaker 2: that I can do as a reporter to cover the
Speaker 2: facts accurately and fairly and represent that as best as.
Speaker 3: I can do.
Speaker 2: And he was like, yeah, fair point, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's been it's been a lot. And even
Speaker 2: now I'm like, oh, did I do the right thing
Speaker 2: on the day, Like should I have left my baby?
Speaker 3: But everyone I've.
Speaker 2: Spoken to you said she won't have any clue and
Speaker 2: it's a story to tell her when she's older, And
Speaker 2: I'm like, true, but it's.
Speaker 3: That guilt, right, You get guilt, like as a new mom.
Speaker 3: I'm like all these different.
Speaker 2: Feelings and thoughts, and you want to protect your career,
Speaker 2: but then you also want to be present as a parent,
Speaker 2: as a partner.
Speaker 3: So just juggling all of.
Speaker 1: That, Cassie, this will only happen. What's seven eight months ago,
Speaker 1: it's so fresh. The murders of the Dim and Neil.
Speaker 1: Their families are still in deep grief trying to come
Speaker 1: to terms with what happened. This is something the Force,
Speaker 1: their families are going to be dealing with for many
Speaker 1: months and years to come, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Oh, Jim, Absolutely, I think this is something that their
Speaker 2: families and the Force, it'll always.
Speaker 3: Be with them.
Speaker 2: The brutality of it, of course, and also the other
Speaker 2: people and the other officers who were involved in that
Speaker 2: search warrant that day. There was a third police officer
Speaker 2: who was shot and injured and he literally had to
Speaker 2: hide under the bus to protect himself until back up arrived.
Speaker 2: So you can only imagine what he's going through. And
Speaker 2: in his recovery. You've got the other members who witnessed it.
Speaker 2: You've got that fourth police officer, the female sergeant who
Speaker 2: had a gun pointed at her and it didn't go off.
Speaker 2: You can only imagine, and I haven't spoken to them,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but the ripple effect mentally and physically
Speaker 2: that this will have on the Victoria police community will
Speaker 2: be ongoing. I'm now band together and they'w mourn and
Speaker 2: grieve and work towards, you know, some sort of new normal.
Speaker 2: But then you've got the families like Vidim, he was
Speaker 2: in his early thirties, there's so much, there was so
Speaker 2: much ahead of him. And then you've got Neil who
Speaker 2: right now should have been enjoying his retirement years, going
Speaker 2: camping and spending time with his partner, and they don't
Speaker 2: get to do that. So the ripple effect that this
Speaker 2: shooting will have on the Victorian community and the policing
Speaker 2: community will be in what I believe, ongoing for some time.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Thank you to Cassie for joining us on this episode.
Speaker 1: You can find a link to the six part podcast,
Speaker 1: Deisi Freeman the Hunt at the link in our show notes.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. I'll be back next week
Speaker 1: with another true crime conversation.