WEBVTT - How A Cop Killer Became Australia’s Most Wanted Fugitive 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.360 It's Monday, March thirty in twenty twenty six and Cassie 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:08.719 Servos is getting ready to take her four month old 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:12.640 baby to a mum's and Bubbs gym class. She's currently 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.760 on maternity leave from her job as crime editor at 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:18.880 seven News Melbourne. But as she packs the wipes and 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.240 nappies into her bag while juggling her daughter on her hip, 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:27.960 her watch buzzes with a notification. It keeps buzzing. Curious, 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:31.680 Cassie checks her phone. One of her police contacts has 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:37.840 messaged DF found, it reads. Moments later, another message comes 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:44.240 through DF Dead. Immediately Cassie knows what it means. Desi 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:49.720 Freeman real name Desmond Philby, Australia's most wanted fugitive for 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:53.599 the past seven months. The man accused of murdering two 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:57.840 police officers at his rural Victorian property. The man accused 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.320 of fleeing a home in which police found hundreds of 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:08.720 files containing child abuse material. That man, that criminal is dead. Finally, 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:12.480 the manhunt that has terrorized a country and a police 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:19.640 force in mourning is over. I'm Jemma Bath and you're 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:23.480 listening to True Crime Conversations, a podcast exploring the world's 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:26.840 most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:31.520 the most about them. Two men, two Victorian police officers 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:35.480 simply doing their jobs, were killed on August twenty six, 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:41.039 twenty twenty five, by Desmond Philby. Their names were fifty 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:45.000 nine year old Detective Leading Senior Constable Neil Thompson and 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:49.200 thirty four year old Senior Constable the Dim Devatata. A 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:53.680 third officer was left seriously wounded. The deaths of Neil 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:57.120 and the Dim have been felt deeply by their families, 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:01.920 friends and colleagues. In Blue Neil was just a week 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.800 from retirement, a dedicated detective attached to the Wangarat A 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:09.519 criminal investigation unit. His loved ones describe a man who 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:14.320 loved footy and campfires and hammocks, a naturally talented bushman 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.560 who left behind his partner of six years, Lisa, and 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:22.040 two step children. For Dim was just thirty four. He 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:24.640 lived and worked in Melbourne. A member of the Public 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.640 Order Response Team. He was only supposed to be in 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.760 regional Victoria for a week on deployment to help deal 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:35.280 with snow crowds. Born in belgiumvad migrated to Australia as 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:40.519 an adult and was known as kind, adventurous, upbeat and worldly, 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:45.359 an adrenaline junkie and a romantic at heart bad leaves 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:50.000 behind his devastated parents and brother. After murdering these two 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:55.760 beloved men, Philby, a self identified sovereign citizen and accused pedophile, 0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:00.000 fled the scene, leaving his wife and baby at the property. 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.880 That was the start of seven long months of searching 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:08.920 of false leads, of horrific taunts from others in his 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:13.960 community who shared his anti police beliefs, of heartbreaking funerals 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:19.320 and tearful goodbyes. Then, in March twenty twenty six, while 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:23.400 cradling her baby, Cassie broke the news of Philby's death 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:24.800 from her living room. 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.240 Well, we have some major breaking news now. 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.760 It regards the search for Desi Freeman. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.080 Let's go live to Cassie Zervos now in Melbourne. 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:35.320 A Cassie, this is all happening. What can you tell us? 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.600 Good morning guys. Well this is obviously huge developing news 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:39.240 this morning. 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:42.600 What we can confirm is that Desi Freeman, the man 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:44.400 who shot down two police. 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:45.840 Officers in August last. 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.200 Year, was found in the poor Punker region with this 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:51.240 morning by heavily armed officers. But as you can understand, 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.520 he says, very much a developing story. So details on 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:58.120 how it actually unfolded, what went down, how police were 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.920 able to find him still known, but of course we 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:05.560 will bring you these details as soon as we get them. 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:09.080 Cassie has returned from maternity leave again briefly to release 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:13.480 a six part podcast called Desi Freeman The Hunt. Just 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.359 a note, in this episode, we will be referring to 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.960 the killer by his birth name, Desmond Philby, not the 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.159 name he's self appointed to himself in conjunction with his 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:27.159 sovereign citizen beliefs. Cassie joins us now to take us 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:32.799 behind the scenes of covering this extraordinary and horrifying case. Cassie, 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:36.080 thank you for joining us on True Crime Conversations. Can 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:39.320 you take me back to August twenty twenty five. Where 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.880 were you at in your life and career at that 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:42.799 point in time? 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:46.320 Yeah, Jim, thanks for having me. Wow, it seems like 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.000 so long ago, even though it was only seven months ago. 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:50.240 Wait months now. 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.920 I was in my third trimester of pregnancy. It was 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:58.039 a Tuesday morning. I was sent out to just another 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.600 crime scene in Melbourne. I even remember what it was now, 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.240 but I do remember sitting in the car, my cameramen's 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:08.200 car because my feet, we saw, my back was sore, 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.440 everything was aching. I was at that stage where I 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:13.800 was sort of like waddling around and just just sort 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.680 of counting down the days to maternity leave. 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.400 And my phone is in my pocket and. 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.200 I sort of was checking it and scrolling and I 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.920 saw these messages that kind of pop up, and there 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.520 were a number of text messages from contact saying there's 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:32.800 been some sort of police incident in the Alpine region 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:37.760 in Victoria and a number of members unaccounted for. 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:39.640 And I was like, what does unaccount for me? 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:41.839 And I actually said I'm like, excuse my ignorance, but 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:46.440 what does unaccounting for me? And the message was Cass, 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:49.920 I'll call you, and the conversation was we think there's 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:51.760 been a police shooting and we think at least two 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:54.960 members have been killed. And I remember sort of looking 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:56.919 it was this weird moment because I looked out and 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.320 it was it was raining and it was cold in Melbourne, 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.520 and I looked out at the cameraman and I was like, 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:03.359 is this happening? 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.839 Like is this for real? And then thinking what do 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:07.120 we do? 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:09.360 Now. So it was just the process of calling the 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.640 newsroom and hitting the road pretty much as soon as 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:16.400 we got word that there was a major police incident. 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:18.920 And because it was four and a half hours away 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:22.080 from where we were in town, all we could do 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.919 was just get there as soon as we could safely, 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:25.719 of course. 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.880 So without going home, getting supplies or anything. You just 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.080 hit the road, straight to the scene, hit the road. 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.680 I remember wearing boots with heels because I'd actually made 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.040 plans with my husband that night to go out for dinner. 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:40.640 And I was in like a maternity dress, a big 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:41.360 kind of. 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:43.599 Coke and that was it. That's all I had on me. 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.040 I didn't have anything else, And to be honest, I 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:48.560 didn't think I would be there for as long as 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.280 I did. I genuinely thought by the time we arrived 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:55.520 in Port Punka, the accused would have been in custody. 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:56.920 I genuinely thought that. 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.040 Because it was a good four and a half five 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.160 hour drive. I thought by the time we get there, 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.960 the narrative of the story would have changed and there 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.520 would have been, you know, an angle of Okay, we've 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:10.760 got court cases and they'll be charges and this kind 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.600 of thing. But when I arrived in that that wasn't 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.520 the case. There was still an active man hunt on. 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.440 I was sort of hit me that I could be 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:21.080 here for a while, and it turned out I was 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:22.640 there for seventeen days straight. 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:23.920 So wow. 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.600 It was one of those things where yeah, and then 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.960 like the messages were coming through from like big emergency 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:36.760 saying if you can stay inside, active shooter on the run, 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.640 do not approach Desmond Philby on the run, do not 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:44.040 approach active shooter, and that those messages kept coming through, 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:46.880 and we're obviously there and the police were there, and 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.960 you're thinking are we safe? Like where could this guy be? 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.320 Could he be hiding in playing sight? What's the situation here? 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.320 So there were all these different emotions and feelings going on, 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:58.840 but you sort of go into like the adrenaline kicks 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.400 in and I almost forgot I was pregnant. It was 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:04.520 just kind of like, Okay, I'm in work mode now. 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:05.880 I want to do the best that I can do 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:08.440 and cover this as the best that I can. 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:12.400 And we were just waiting for the next update. 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.480 Really, let's set the scene a bit for listeners of 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:19.720 the area. We're talking about poor Punker Regional Victoria. Can 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:21.720 you tell us about it. What's it like there. 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:22.600 It's beautiful. 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:25.760 It's the Alpine region, so there's beautiful mountain Buffalo in 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:28.040 the background. And at the time in August, it was 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:30.120 the end of August towards the start of September, it 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:33.600 was freezing in Melbourne and the weather was awful, but 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:37.400 there was actually snowfall, so it was like this beautiful 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:43.080 part of the world, but freezing and tiny, quite rural, 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.760 lots of farming properties. The area that the police were 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:50.959 searching was really dense. The terrain was really dense. I'm 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:54.200 on a camper, I'm not a hiker, I'm not like 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.559 I'm not really familiar with that kind of those kind 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.760 of activities. But a lot of people who other journalists 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.920 through there had been camping there and had gone a 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.640 weekend highs and it's a beautiful tourist town, so it's 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:11.920 actually a really stunning part of the world and why 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.560 lots of people decide to holiday there and you know, 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:17.640 go on the camping trips and go on the snows 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:18.640 trips as well. 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:22.480 So it's but it's remote, it's very remote. 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:28.959 And particularly Desmond's property, it was it was huge and 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.240 from an outsider looking in like you drive past his 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.560 street runing a track and you wouldn't know that there's 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:38.920 a huge rural property there. But there's so many properties 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:43.320 like it around that area where there's farmers and people 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:47.880 who are running businesses for caravanning and camping, vanning and 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:49.720 that kind of thing as well. So you've got a 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:50.960 bit of everything there. 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:56.000 And Philby's residence on this enormous property. It wasn't actually 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:57.680 a house, was it. It was a bus. 0:09:57.800 --> 0:09:59.800 Yeah, it was like an old rundown bus. 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:03.960 Was He turned it into I guess a house for 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:07.880 him and his family. The owners of the actual property 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:13.120 allowed him to stay there, but he didn't own the property, 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.960 the actual land itself. He was just living on a 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.360 bus on the property and he'd been living there for 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:19.280 some time, I believe. 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:25.960 But you know, this was a man who was anti society. 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.439 He decided to homeschool his children, he didn't want to 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:33.680 get his kids vaccinated, which you know, each to their own, 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:37.800 but he made himself known in town for his beliefs, 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:41.320 and particularly during COVID and that's something that we really 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.920 sort of dick dive during this whole period of the 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:48.000 man hunt, and particularly posted as well in the last 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:48.880 few months. 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:51.960 Well, let's talk about what happened before we get to 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.040 Bilbie's beliefs. It was about ten thirty in the morning 0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:00.640 and police were attending the property to execute a search warrant. 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:02.719 Can you tell us the details of that. Why were 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:04.040 they executing a search warrant? 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:04.520 Sure? 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:09.600 So there were allegations against Philby that historic child abuse 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:12.280 allegations dating back to the past two years, and that's 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.600 what Victoria Police came out and said. So it was 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:18.800 very much fact. So it was a search warrant to 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:22.640 go in and search and seize any potential evidence that 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:26.800 could be held against him, and that's why they were there. 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:28.600 It was a routine search warrant. 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.319 Police do these kind of warrants almost every day for 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.000 all different reasons, you know, And a lot of the 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:37.480 people have come out and said, why if it was 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:39.800 just a routine search warrant, why were there so many 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.640 police officers there. And I've spoken to officers who have 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:45.559 worked closely on this case, and they said, because the 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.120 property is obviously so big, it's not unusual to have 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:52.160 that many members attend a search warrant because it's a 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.720 huge property and it's time, you know, being time efficient, 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.560 and it's quite common even in Melbourne or even in 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:04.400 like suburban warrants, it's quite common for there to be 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.320 more numbers than not for safety reasons as well. 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.440 But there was nothing unusual about this search warrant. 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.400 They didn't believe he was capable of carrying out what 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.280 he did that day, and I think that's something that 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.439 will come out now in the coroner's inquest, which he's 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:23.840 expected to begin in the next. 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:25.000 Couple of months too. 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:30.120 Let's go into Philby's background, because he was known to police. 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:32.840 This wasn't the first time they'd had run ins with him. 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:36.680 Can you tell us about him? To start with his name. Publicly, 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:41.080 everyone will know him as Desmond Desi Bird Freeman. That's 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:42.559 not his name, No. 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:43.560 It's not. It's not Jaman. 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:45.960 He actually changed his name, I believe in the late 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:54.000 two thousands to Desi Freeman and the surname Freeman if 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.920 you break it up, Freeman, and that's quite a popular 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:02.559 name within the Sovereign citizen movement. He was born as 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.920 Desmond Christopher Philby and that's what his family knew. He 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:08.880 knew him as I've been speaking to some of his 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.280 family members post everything. That's happened, and when I speak 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.800 to them, they refer to him as Dares or Desmond. 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.640 They don't make reference to that Freeman surname that he 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:19.360 changed it to. 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:24.320 He was, actually, you know, in his early teens, late teens, 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.840 early twenties, really into the hippie movement and would go 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.200 to and attend a lot of festivals that often spread 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:33.880 messages of love and peace. And he was sort of 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:37.080 going down that path. And then an associate of his 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.680 that I had been speaking to throughout the past seven 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.079 or so months said that all of a sudden, something 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:44.600 switched in him, switched in him where he became quite 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:45.520 angry and. 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:48.520 Resented the world and authority. 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:50.720 Nothing, there was no sort of like trigger point, Nothing 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:52.920 really happened, but he always sort of questioned authority, you know, 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:54.600 like why do I have to go to work? Why 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:55.880 do I have to do this? Why do I have 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.000 to perform with society? Why do I have to get 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.200 a driver's license? Why can't I go to speed that 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:02.079 I think is safe? And it's just like, well, it's 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:03.720 the law, you've got it, do it, will do where 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:05.920 you know it is? This is you know, I don't 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:07.280 know necessarily always want to go to work, but you 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:08.840 got to like, you've got bills to pay and this 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.000 to do, and you know, there's responsibilities as an adult 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:14.160 and as you get older, and he questioned that very 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:17.360 early on, and so much so I believe the first 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.680 time he's running with the police was with the New 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:21.920 South Wales Police when he was like twenty one or 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.680 twenty two, and it was for speeding and he. 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.800 Copped a fine like you do, and he just refused 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:28.240 to pay it. 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:29.520 So he was sort of in and out of the 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.280 court system from quite an early age. And it was 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.760 often things like speeding fines, parking fines that he refused 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:36.120 to pay. 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.680 And then of course the COVID pandemic hit and that's when. 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:47.160 His behavior really escalated, where you know, Victoria had probably 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:51.920 the strictest lockdowns in the country, somewhat argue around the world, 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.440 and you know, he refused to wear the mask, he 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:59.080 refused to get the COVID vaccination. There were you know, 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.920 the vision that is sub merge of him, like baiting 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:06.000 police officers when they pull him over. Why are you 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.160 not within you your five k radius of the rules? 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.480 And and he just and his family said, he just 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:16.000 his his mental health and his health really escalated from 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:17.200 that moment onwards. 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:19.960 But he never hurt. 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.400 Or physically lashed out at a police officer. It was 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:25.320 always verbal abuse. 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.520 When you say sovereign citizen, is that just like an 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:32.800 organized movement that he would be a part of. Is 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:36.560 that a well run group for those that aren't aware, Yeah. 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:40.920 So, a sovereign citizen is basically a person who thinks 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:45.640 they're above the law, doesn't abide by society's laws, doesn't 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:50.080 believe in the government, doesn't believe in police authority or 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:51.840 essentially the laws. 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:53.320 There's not necessarily like a group. 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:55.280 There's a group, you know that there'd be people a 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:59.960 movement or his associates, his friends, but in terms of 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.200 actual group, I don't believe he was necessarily part of, 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.120 you know, like a sovereign citizen group. It was just 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:11.600 he was a self described sovereign citizen during the time 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.960 of the pandemic, because the police would going to his 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.320 house and checking on his kids because they weren't going 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.360 to school and they weren't getting the vaccinations, and there 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:22.680 was a lot of sort of welfare checks. He would 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:26.000 go on his social media pages and rant and say 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.160 that the authorities were out to get in purely because 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:33.200 he didn't believe in abiding by the law. 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:33.680 And the rules. 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:39.240 And it got so bad that he would actually threaten 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:44.040 authority online. I remember seeing a post that he wrote 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:48.400 saying any good cop is a dead cop and described 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.600 police as terrorist thugs. 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:54.120 That's what he posted online. So there was so much 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.560 hatred towards authority, and. 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.880 It really escalated during the pandemic and post it as well. 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:07.200 But in terms of like charges against him, was it 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.520 more of these like nuisance charges like he's you know, 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:15.080 verbally abusing or the speeding and stuff like that. There 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:19.440 weren't actual serious charges on his criminal history before these 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:20.920 allegations of child abuse. 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:22.959 That's absolutely right. There was nothing. 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.720 There was nothing, you know, obviously speeding, it's illegal parking, 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.399 you know, not paying fines, but there was nothing like 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:32.720 the allegations that we've since learned about. 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:35.520 But in terms of the seriousness of. 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.440 His offending, it wasn't violent, It wasn't It was more 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.159 of a nuisance to authorities, and he would fight it 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.560 and he would go through all the pages of the 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.680 law and say, well, you know, under this section of 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:48.439 this section and this and this, and it was almost 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.879 it almost became a nuisance for the magistrates as well 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:57.360 and the police, but it was never he was charged 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:01.960 with anything incredibly criminal, if. 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:02.639 That makes sense. 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:06.720 Yeah, what about his kind of work life, family life? 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.840 Did he have a job? Children knows that. 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:13.320 And this is what I find quite interesting. He was 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.439 actually on the doll so he was taking he was 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:20.880 on a He claimed a disability pension or something like that, 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.440 and I don't think he actually from speaking to his associates, 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:27.160 he didn't have anything wrong, but he managed to find 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:28.920 a loophole where he could claim. 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:33.879 Tax payers money. So he was so anti government authority. 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:36.200 But yeah, he was happy to take the money from 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:38.680 from us. And that's the thing that gets med as well. 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.240 You sort of think, Okay, was he a man who 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:41.919 really wants to fight in a good fight in his 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:46.119 own mind and in his world, but he's so happy 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.800 to take money from the government. 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.000 But he hadn't been working for years. 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.840 When I spoke to a close relative of his, he 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:57.680 actually said he wasn't able to hold down a job 0:18:57.960 --> 0:18:59.399 kind of for the same reasons. You know, you go 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:01.480 to work in their rules. There are rules everywhere you go. 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:03.480 That's just the world that that's the world, that's life 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.600 that's life. He just couldn't handle it. He couldn't handle it. 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.720 And these allegations that I've been told, you know what, 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:11.040 police have since been able to. 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:13.280 Find on his devices. 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.359 Desmond actually told his family members, Oh, the police are 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:19.879 coming after me over these you know, these lies. 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:21.000 But I do believe. 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:25.280 Police have since confirmed that they found child abuse material. 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:29.080 Correct, So the devices that they see from Desmond's property, 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:34.280 laptops and iPads, they were able to use specialized technology 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:38.960 to download files from the from his devices, and there 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:42.959 were hundreds and hundreds of child exploitation material found on 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:47.159 his devices. And many people don't believe that, you know, 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.680 obviously that's come out recently. And if you look at 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:54.400 comments online, people who have the same beliefs as Desmond 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:58.879 Philby and who are you know, supporters of him so 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.800 to speak, they're saying, oh, it's fake news, the police 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:06.040 are just out to get him. Which there's a whole 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:10.800 other debate, like since since really deep diving into this 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:16.040 movement and doing the podcast that we have done, the 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.240 comments online, like I get messages daily being like he's 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:23.840 still alive and to cover up all these different conspiracy 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:26.879 theories that people genuinely believe, which is like a whole 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:27.600 other thing. 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:29.760 And we haven't got there yet, but that it's just 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:32.399 so offensive to the victims of and the families that 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:34.520 are grieving to hear all of that nonsense. 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:37.360 And these are two men who went to work and 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:40.840 should have come home, Like they put on a uniform, 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.440 they go to their workplace, they do their job, and 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:46.920 they should come home, and they didn't. And the people 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:50.360 who are defending this man, it really makes you angry. 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:52.800 And it almost like I've almost had to like mute 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:57.000 notifications because you can't reason with these people. 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:58.720 You're never going to change their minds. 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:02.320 But because there's so many people who have the same 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.840 thinking as him, it almost terrifies you because you're like, 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:08.280 what kind of society are we living in where people 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:12.480 are celebrating this person when they should be mourning the 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:14.480 deaths of two good men. 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:16.840 It just it really baffles me and makes me, actually 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:17.920 makes me very angry. 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:20.879 After the break, we talk about how a search warrant 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:25.240 at Desmond's property escalated into a shooting. Let's talk about 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:29.320