Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. The first time I
Speaker 2: spoke with Ellie Sedgwick, otherwise known as the Volver Photographer,
Speaker 2: was in twenty twenty two, and this is such an
Speaker 2: interesting conversation that I know you'll want to listen to,
Speaker 2: and we're bringing it back to you because there is
Speaker 2: a new chapter to this story. I asked Ellie for
Speaker 2: an update on how her project is going since the
Speaker 2: last time we spoke, and this is the voice note
Speaker 2: that she sent me.
Speaker 1: Hey, Mia, it's Ellie. I just wanted to send you
Speaker 1: a little update as a lot has happened since we
Speaker 1: last recorded this podcast. I'm super excited to announce that
Speaker 1: my coffee table book, Flip Through My Flaps, an Exploration
Speaker 1: of the Volver, is finally, after seven years in the making,
Speaker 1: available for purchase and next week I will personally be
Speaker 1: packing each and every order from where it's printed in Melbourne, Australia.
Speaker 1: It's something that I'm so proud to be able to
Speaker 1: put out into this world. The book aims to raise
Speaker 1: awareness of vulver diversity and it really breaks down the
Speaker 1: stigma surrounding women's health. It features the photographs and stories
Speaker 1: of over five hundred women, and it really dives into
Speaker 1: a range of readily important topics, from the complexities of
Speaker 1: our vulver anatomy to open conversations around sexual health, pleasure, motherhood, miscarriages.
Speaker 1: This book is something that I wish existed when I
Speaker 1: was younger. So it was only two weeks before the
Speaker 1: book went to print that I ended up finding the
Speaker 1: confidence to do my own vulver photo shoot, and I
Speaker 1: was feeling self conscious throughout the shoot, and my friend
Speaker 1: who shot me used the trial print copy of Flip
Speaker 1: Through My Flaps that we had on us to bring
Speaker 1: to me and show me that what I was worried
Speaker 1: about was really normal. So it was really cool seen
Speaker 1: it out in the world in action and I used
Speaker 1: it on myself, which is just amazing. I think that
Speaker 1: the statistics of people who have genital anxieties now are
Speaker 1: so large, so I really hope that this book can
Speaker 1: be used as a resource and a tool to show
Speaker 1: that we're all unique and that's what makes us beautiful.
Speaker 1: So yes, I'm very excited to be an author and
Speaker 1: for this book to be out on the shelves for
Speaker 1: the world to see. Big love for mom and me.
Speaker 2: You're listening to No Filter, the podcast where people speak
Speaker 2: candidly about their lives and aren't afraid to be vulnerable.
Speaker 2: I'm me a Friedman and I don't like the word vulver.
Speaker 2: It's not to say I don't love my actual volver.
Speaker 1: I obviously do.
Speaker 2: I mean I guess I do. Let's start some cool stuff.
Speaker 2: I don't think about it that much, to be honest,
Speaker 2: and that is part of the problem. If you have
Speaker 2: a volver, for example, did you even grow up calling
Speaker 2: it that? I didn't. My mum, a feminist, taught me
Speaker 2: to call it a vagina, and that's the word I
Speaker 2: taught my own kids their penises and vaginas. Today, you're
Speaker 2: going to meet a woman who's mad about wolvers. She
Speaker 2: loves them, and she uses the word at every opportunity.
Speaker 2: She's even turned wolvers into a well paid job, and
Speaker 2: wolvers have made her a little bit famous. So if
Speaker 2: you've ever thought to yourself, is my vulver normal or
Speaker 2: what the hell is an out yet, Ellie Sedgwick is
Speaker 2: here to set you straight. Ellie is a body positive
Speaker 2: photographer and entrepreneur who found it Comfortable in My Skin,
Speaker 2: a movement empowering people to love the skin they're in.
Speaker 2: But Ellie hasn't always felt comfortable with her own volver.
Speaker 2: She's gone from being scared to wear swimmers to even
Speaker 2: considering labiaplasty, and now she drives around the country photographing
Speaker 2: other women's volvers for her upcoming book, which is going
Speaker 2: to be called Slipped through My Flaps. I'm not even kidding.
Speaker 2: Here's Ellie.
Speaker 1: Ellie. What did you.
Speaker 2: Call your genitals when you were a little girl?
Speaker 1: Vagina always called vagina.
Speaker 2: So you weren't in one of those families that had
Speaker 2: cute little nicknames. What did your mama teach you about
Speaker 2: your vagina?
Speaker 1: This makes me feel a little bit sad, but my
Speaker 1: mom wrote me a message about a year inter comfortable
Speaker 1: with my skin, and she actually apologized. She said, I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry that I didn't teach you the correct terminology folver,
Speaker 1: because I obviously speak about that so much about how
Speaker 1: we should call it the right thing, and I had
Speaker 1: just done a post about what do you wish your
Speaker 1: parents in school taught you when you were fourteen? Then
Speaker 1: my mum read her all, and she felt really bad
Speaker 1: because she's very sensitive, loving lady, and she was like,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that I didn't teach you what all
Speaker 1: volvers look like and wrote me this big message about it.
Speaker 1: So she was always very lovely, but I mean, she
Speaker 1: just didn't call it a volver herself.
Speaker 2: Do you remember when you first became aware of it
Speaker 2: even having one, or that girls and boys had different bits.
Speaker 1: I remember the first time I was insecure about it,
Speaker 1: definitely was in high school and I got a note
Speaker 1: from someone saying, do you have an Innie or an Audi?
Speaker 1: After I realized it was Evolver that they were talking about,
Speaker 1: I realized that mine was maybe different.
Speaker 2: Was that note based on anything like It's not like
Speaker 2: in with no pants?
Speaker 1: No, No, It was just this little boy behind me
Speaker 1: in class and he just scribbled it with pen and
Speaker 1: tapped me on the shold and gave it to me.
Speaker 1: And I don't think I was even sexually active then,
Speaker 1: so it was definitely not aimed at me on purpose.
Speaker 1: It just was the start of my insecurities.
Speaker 2: And I'd never heard that terminology, certainly when I was
Speaker 2: a kid about the idea of innies and auties.
Speaker 1: I grew up on the Northern beaches, and it's very
Speaker 1: much beach culture. And I served my whole life, and
Speaker 1: so I was always hanging out with big groups of boys,
Speaker 1: and I was out the back and were to often
Speaker 1: hear the chat about the girl's it's like the night before.
Speaker 1: And I do speak about this a lot. But two
Speaker 1: of my best friends growing up have had labiaplasty, one
Speaker 1: when she was sixteen and then again when she was eighteen,
Speaker 1: and then another one had it when she was eighteen.
Speaker 1: And so I think that there was something about the
Speaker 1: boys we hung out with maybe and the girls that
Speaker 1: there was like this ideal way that your wolver should look,
Speaker 1: I mean mine. You can see it when I wear
Speaker 1: a bikini. And I photographed like, you know, four hundred
Speaker 1: people now, so I do know I have quite distinct
Speaker 1: laber and you can see it when I wear a bikini.
Speaker 1: And there was just like joke said that made me
Speaker 1: feel really sad growing up.
Speaker 2: You said that your friend had a labioplastin when she
Speaker 2: was sixteen. Was this the nineties or the two thousands?
Speaker 2: How old are you really?
Speaker 1: I'm thirty two, so this was the early two thousands. Yes,
Speaker 1: So I finished school O seven, so it would have
Speaker 1: just been a few years before that. She came and
Speaker 1: showed her mum and said like, why do I look
Speaker 1: like this? And her mum said, oh, I did as well,
Speaker 1: and I don't want you to go through what I did,
Speaker 1: feeling like it was not sexy, blah blah blah, and
Speaker 1: took her and gave her permission. And she doesn't regret
Speaker 1: it at all. She's actually happy with her laby a plasty.
Speaker 1: But we always laugh and say, imagine if we all
Speaker 1: had spoken and they only came forward and told me
Speaker 1: because of comfortable in my skin or else. No one
Speaker 1: else knows.
Speaker 2: Because it's not something that girls spoke about as teenagers.
Speaker 1: Not really. I mean, it's definitely changed now. You can
Speaker 1: look on social media and find so much cool Volver
Speaker 1: diversity awareness. Yeah, but I think when we were growing up,
Speaker 1: and probably the same as you, a lot of my friends'
Speaker 1: mums when I started comfortable with my skin were like,
Speaker 1: what they all look the same? What are you doing?
Speaker 1: What do you mean? They all had that kind of response,
Speaker 1: and I was like, no, they don't.
Speaker 2: The first time I became aware of the whole beauty
Speaker 2: standard around Volvers was and I worked in magazines and
Speaker 2: I was the editor of Cosmo, and I remember talking
Speaker 2: to one of the editors of one of the men's
Speaker 2: magazines in our same company, and he was telling me
Speaker 2: how they had to always battle with the senses because
Speaker 2: they were legally required to. And the wording was extraordinary
Speaker 2: from the Bureau of Censorship seal the opening to a
Speaker 2: single slit, a single crease, a single crease, so they
Speaker 2: had to airbrush any protruding labbya from any image of
Speaker 2: a naked woman that they showed, and then they didn't
Speaker 2: disclose this. So my generation didn't grow up looking at
Speaker 2: poorn necessarily, But we saw naked girls.
Speaker 1: In men's magazine except Playboy.
Speaker 2: And People and Picture and those kinds of things, And
Speaker 2: what we never realized was that what we were looking
Speaker 2: at were not real human vaginas they were in most cases. Rush, Bob,
Speaker 2: we're going to have to do this a lot. Let's
Speaker 2: go straight to that.
Speaker 1: What I was going to say just quickly about that
Speaker 1: is that a lot of sexologists, and you see a
Speaker 1: lot of people talking about this currently saying that porn
Speaker 1: is the reason why so many people are insecure. But
Speaker 1: I personally, and this is just speaking from my personal opinion.
Speaker 1: I'm the same as you. I had never watched porn
Speaker 1: growing up, and so I don't blame the porn industry.
Speaker 1: And I think that now especially, there's so much amateur porn.
Speaker 1: You can find anything online, and so I don't actually
Speaker 1: think that that's where a lot of the insecurities are
Speaker 1: coming from.
Speaker 2: Where do you think they're coming from?
Speaker 1: Well, I think for me it was like not seeing
Speaker 1: other ones, and then, like you said, the ones that
Speaker 1: I did in Playboy or anything had been edited and photoshopped.
Speaker 1: And then maybe the few because I'm very bisexual, I've
Speaker 1: never been straight. Maybe the few girls that I was
Speaker 1: sleeping with when I was starting to explore had that
Speaker 1: kind of design of vagina, so they'd call it Barbie.
Speaker 1: That's how my journey went. That was the kind of
Speaker 1: wolvers that I first saw.
Speaker 2: Tell me about the word ellie, I can't say it.
Speaker 2: I just don't like it.
Speaker 1: Volva, you don't like it.
Speaker 2: And I've been pulled up on this for so many
Speaker 2: years now, and I call them the Vulva police police,
Speaker 2: the Vulvar police of which you are a proud card
Speaker 2: can remember. Tell me why I don't like the word elie.
Speaker 1: I don't know why you personally don't like it, but
Speaker 1: it took me. I've been capturingvolvers for four years now
Speaker 1: and it took me about three is to start saying it.
Speaker 1: And then now I can't not pick up on it,
Speaker 1: Like if I hear anyone say it's just I think
Speaker 1: because my whole world is pussy, just like vulva, vulva, vulva,
Speaker 1: and so I'm so in tune with it. As soon
Speaker 1: as someone says, for Janah, it just tingles me. I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's vulva. It makes me angry because there's such a
Speaker 1: big lack of education.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, I know how I thought that volver was
Speaker 2: the name for labbia or for your slushy bits, like
Speaker 2: to me, it's a very fleshy word. Yeah, but can
Speaker 2: you explain the difference between a vagina and revolver for
Speaker 2: those who are playing at home?
Speaker 1: While the vaginas the canal, so it's you know, where
Speaker 1: the inside the inside, yes, can't see it from the outside.
Speaker 1: Hampon goes in, babies come out, toy baby comes out, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then the volvers everything on the outside. And so
Speaker 1: so many people are using the wrong terms, having no
Speaker 1: idea and that's because we're not educated on our bodies,
Speaker 1: that part of our body, Like we just missed out
Speaker 1: on that. There's so much information on penises and everything else,
Speaker 1: but just not volvers.
Speaker 2: So it's like as if we were calling a penis
Speaker 2: a scrotum, yeah, or testical.
Speaker 1: Exactly why is.
Speaker 2: That misinformation there? Because that's a bigger question, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Why did I grow up with a feminist mother who
Speaker 2: was very much about his the name that we call
Speaker 2: it because that's what it's called. And I had an
Speaker 2: argument with one of my best friends. We both had daughters,
Speaker 2: and we were in a shop trying clothes and I
Speaker 2: had a really short skirt and I said, oh goodness,
Speaker 2: you can almost see my vagina, which you would have
Speaker 2: corrected me on. But she got angry at me because
Speaker 2: her daughters in their family, they called it a wink.
Speaker 2: And so her little girl, who was I can't remember
Speaker 2: five as the time, was skipping down the street going
Speaker 2: vagina vagina, and she's like, thanks so much for that,
Speaker 2: and she was really angry at me, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: it's important that she learns what it's actually called.
Speaker 1: It's a body part, and also talking about it normally.
Speaker 1: Like my dad said this when I started comfortable in
Speaker 1: my skin. He was like, talk about it like it's
Speaker 1: a body part, because that's what it is. And when
Speaker 1: you make things weird and nickname me, then it feels
Speaker 1: like you're being naughty talking about it, when actually it's
Speaker 1: just a beautiful part of our bodies, like our breast,
Speaker 1: and it's something that we should treasure and love and
Speaker 1: feel connected to, so we should be allowed to talk
Speaker 1: about it in the right way.
Speaker 2: He used to be a preschool teacher.
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 2: It's quite the career trajectory you cash to becoming evolver photographer.
Speaker 1: Oh, speak to me about Everyone's always like what did
Speaker 1: the moms say? And what does your boss say? And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm very open with everything I do. And
Speaker 1: it's so hilarious because all the mums would pull me
Speaker 1: aside one by one to be like, I want to
Speaker 1: be photographed, but don't tell the other mums, so you
Speaker 1: do both. I don't so much. I mean, I do
Speaker 1: steal nanny a lot of travel nanny, so I sometimes
Speaker 1: go back and drop into it because I do genuinely
Speaker 1: love hanging out with kids. It's so much fun. But
Speaker 1: I do prefer hanging with the vulgar naked people capturing
Speaker 1: the volvers.
Speaker 2: Who was the first volver that you saw other than
Speaker 2: your own?
Speaker 1: The first volver I ever saw was Ella, my best friend,
Speaker 1: and we were quite best friend with benefits, with benefits, yeah,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, i'd say hers is the first I saw.
Speaker 1: We had a lot of fun, and what did you think?
Speaker 1: I remember thinking like, why does mine not look like hers?
Speaker 1: That's what I remember thinking. And then hers looked like
Speaker 1: a Barbie doll that I'd always played with when I
Speaker 1: was younger, and I was like, oh my gosh, I've
Speaker 1: got too much skin down there. Yeah, let's say that's
Speaker 1: where a lot of the insecurity start.
Speaker 2: Thanks Ella, But you didn't say anything to Ellen. Was
Speaker 2: Ella the one that got the surgery?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No, no, okay, So you didn't say anything to Ella
Speaker 2: and she didn't say anything to you. No.
Speaker 1: Well, this is the problem with volvers is because it's
Speaker 1: such a taboo topic. I never told anyone except for
Speaker 1: my sister. And then I went traveling around in my
Speaker 1: early twenties around Europe, and I came back and I
Speaker 1: remember sitting in the park with Nicki and I was
Speaker 1: crying and sister. Yeah, because I just slept with someone
Speaker 1: and I was like, what if they tell what I
Speaker 1: look like? And I was like really upset. I used
Speaker 1: to do this thing, but I would honestly cry with
Speaker 1: people when I was sleeping with them, so sad for
Speaker 1: the person I was sleeping with, because I'd be like,
Speaker 1: what's wrong with it? It's so sad for you because
Speaker 1: you were self conscious. I was so self conscious of
Speaker 1: my volver. And so then NICKI said to me, there's
Speaker 1: this thing called Laba plusty, and I think you should
Speaker 1: get it because it's been so long now of you
Speaker 1: being worried about this part of your body. And so
Speaker 1: that's when my road led down to going to cosmetic
Speaker 1: sessions in Sydney and it's so concerning. They don't even
Speaker 1: look at your body. They were just like, when can
Speaker 1: we book you in? And yeah, this is the price.
Speaker 1: Because I was young, they were like, maybe you can
Speaker 1: get under medicare. It's eight centimeters long. We can help
Speaker 1: you get it cheaper.
Speaker 2: How old were you I must have.
Speaker 1: Been early early twenties. And then when I went to
Speaker 1: finally have the surgery done, I went to India because
Speaker 1: I used to babysit in India on and off for
Speaker 1: six years, and the doctor I couldn't talk properly. I
Speaker 1: was just calling it like liposuction and pointing down like.
Speaker 2: You were calling it liposuction. Yeah, when your sister Nicki,
Speaker 2: First of all, I don't have a sister. Do sisters
Speaker 2: look at each other's volvers?
Speaker 1: Nicki was the best best big sister you could ever
Speaker 1: ever have. She was so beautiful. She just always showed
Speaker 1: me hers and as looked exactly the same, and she
Speaker 1: was like, who cares? Like who cares what the people think?
Speaker 1: And she did surf boat rowing, and she was like,
Speaker 1: you can see my outline when I'm in a bikini.
Speaker 1: She just said she never cared all the time.
Speaker 2: And what about your mum.
Speaker 1: Mom's not a newdicist as such, so she was never
Speaker 1: walking around the house nage. She talked to her about
Speaker 1: it though, No, which is weird because as soon as
Speaker 1: I lost my Virginia, I told her. I told her everything,
Speaker 1: But for some reason, I never told he about my insecurities.
Speaker 2: So your sister didn't want to get labiaplasty herself. No,
Speaker 2: Nicky obviously knew that it existed, yes, and suggested it
Speaker 2: to you little did you know one of your friends
Speaker 2: had or two of you. I had it by that stage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so then I ended up in this horrible
Speaker 1: situation with a cosmetic surgeon in India and he was like,
Speaker 1: with a yellow highlighter drawing on my legs because he
Speaker 1: thought I wanted my legs like it's actually I was
Speaker 1: going to.
Speaker 2: Say, I don't think I'm learning a lot already about
Speaker 2: well my bolvaries, but I don't think it involves my legs.
Speaker 1: And then he said after a while, I was very awkward,
Speaker 1: and I said, I mean, like here, not my legs
Speaker 1: at all. And so that's when like this hilarious moment
Speaker 1: happened that I speak about all the time. He went
Speaker 1: and got a mirror that's a circle, and he brought
Speaker 1: over to my face and made me put my teeth
Speaker 1: forward and showed me that for the same price as
Speaker 1: lavio plasty, I could have my jaw line fixed with
Speaker 1: a chin extension. And he was like, everybody sees your
Speaker 1: face and only people you love seeing your vulva. And
Speaker 1: I was like, ugh, but yeah, I went in with
Speaker 1: one insecurity, came out with two.
Speaker 2: Did you leave?
Speaker 1: And I got yellow post its with all the prices,
Speaker 1: like of what a chin extension would cost, and what
Speaker 1: laby PLASTI would cost, and how long the bruising would
Speaker 1: be if I had to go back to work for
Speaker 1: a chin extension, all this weird stuff. And like me
Speaker 1: and my best friends we always send each other double
Speaker 1: chin self. These were like constantly doing that. So I
Speaker 1: remember later telling them like, oh my god, I almost
Speaker 1: got a chin extension. They're like, why would you change
Speaker 1: your face?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like, why would I change this?
Speaker 1: Why would I change this? It's just me.
Speaker 2: So you walked out of there with some post it notes, yes,
Speaker 2: but nobody alteration.
Speaker 1: Nobody alterations, which it is make you think again? Made
Speaker 1: me think again? He said to me, have you seen
Speaker 1: other volvers? Because I don't think you need this surgery.
Speaker 1: And I think I'm quite a natural, earthy girl, you know,
Speaker 1: I love I see beauty in everyone. And I think
Speaker 1: I was quite shocked that I would had even considered
Speaker 1: doing my face. I don't know. I just think it
Speaker 1: was lucky that he put so much pressure on, like
Speaker 1: fixing everything.
Speaker 2: Wow. So it's like what he restored to you and
Speaker 2: your self esteem about your volver. He tried to take
Speaker 2: away with your face, but you just didn't pick up
Speaker 2: what he was putting down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did not at all. And I also picked
Speaker 1: up where he was like you need to go and
Speaker 1: see others, and.
Speaker 2: So then like you need to go and see other volvervolvers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this idea started where I should photograph heaps and like,
Speaker 1: it's really interesting because a lot of my girlfriends remember
Speaker 1: me one night at pizza and manly being like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, like how cool would a book like this be?
Speaker 1: And this was like years before I started, but they
Speaker 1: didn't know about my insecurities. And then when I actually
Speaker 1: did this Facebook post in twenty eighteen saying I'm going
Speaker 1: to create a coffee table book flip through my flats
Speaker 1: and I'm going to photograph five hundred volvers, and they
Speaker 1: were like, I remember you talking about this for years,
Speaker 1: but I never made it about me. I was just like,
Speaker 1: how cool would that be? Just to see real you
Speaker 1: was still uncomfortable. I was still very uncomfortable, and is
Speaker 1: that when people started to go, oh, actually, yeah, that
Speaker 1: would be really cool. I'd love to see what other
Speaker 1: ones look like. But then you heard like also the
Speaker 1: jokes as well that were quite nasty.
Speaker 2: Do you think that the word flaps? Can we reclaim that.
Speaker 1: I have actually made jokes on my social media and
Speaker 1: gotten messages from people that I photographed being like, I
Speaker 1: don't find this funny. And if I'm a part of
Speaker 1: your work trying to change the narrative of how we
Speaker 1: joke about volvers, then I don't want my photos in
Speaker 1: it if you're going to do that. Social media is
Speaker 1: a very tough world. There's a lot of opinions.
Speaker 2: Where did you stand on that?
Speaker 1: Where did you I took the post down that i'd done,
Speaker 1: and I apologize, you know, I mean I photographed this
Speaker 1: person's well where she was so open to me, and
Speaker 1: I was like, if this has personally offended you, I
Speaker 1: will take it down immediately. But I do push the
Speaker 1: boundaries a little bit, I think because I find humor
Speaker 1: helps for me, and I think it's like you can
Speaker 1: say funny things as long as you just talk it.
Speaker 1: I talked about all taboo topics and I drop a
Speaker 1: bit of humor in so that it's comfortable for everyone.
Speaker 2: Do you remember the first man who saw your FOLV?
Speaker 1: I do, so this guy wasn't the first, but this
Speaker 1: is so long ago that it was on MSN, but
Speaker 1: his brother messaged me saying that his brother said my
Speaker 1: vagina looked like a track had run over it. I
Speaker 1: was really young, and so I think that plays a huge.
Speaker 2: That would have been devastating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was devastating, and I just remember sitting there
Speaker 1: being so insecure, and I held onto that comment forever
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: When did you finally let go of the idea of
Speaker 2: getting labiaplasty.
Speaker 1: Actually, I'm very anaphylactic to seafood and I had a
Speaker 1: very bad reaction not long ago, and I went in
Speaker 1: to see a doctor in Bondi and the guy was
Speaker 1: telling me about all the things he can do. He
Speaker 1: was like, I do botox, I do laba plastic and
Speaker 1: I was like, I just need medicine to make my
Speaker 1: eyes not so swollen. I said, I can't get other things.
Speaker 1: I have this single comfortable in my skin. And he
Speaker 1: said to me, I'd do laby a plasty for you,
Speaker 1: because he wasn't listening, and I was like, no, Like,
Speaker 1: I can't get labyo plasty. And now even if someone
Speaker 1: paid me, I would never get it because I've worked
Speaker 1: so hard to have the relationship I have now with
Speaker 1: my volver and like, I masturbate constantly, and I realized
Speaker 1: how many nerve endings are in there, and it's such
Speaker 1: a great pleasure too for yourself to feel good, and
Speaker 1: I would just never change it now.
Speaker 2: Never are there nerve endings in there?
Speaker 1: Tell me in your laby er?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what does our laby you do? Well?
Speaker 1: There's all sorts of funny memes, like obviously I'm a
Speaker 1: meme queen, and there's always the ones that say, like
Speaker 1: we've got eight thousand nerve endings. If you're going to
Speaker 1: get on a woman's nerves, get on them.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: There's all these like hilarious ones. But there's so much
Speaker 1: pleasure down there. And if you go and see a
Speaker 1: sex sologist, for example, if you're feeling insecure of your LaBier,
Speaker 1: they might teach you how to massage you're inner labyer
Speaker 1: a certain way so that it feels really good, and
Speaker 1: to try and connect with it that way instead of
Speaker 1: like chopping it off to fit society's idea of what
Speaker 1: a beautiful volver should look like. So there's all these
Speaker 1: great masturbation techniques and tools that I talk about in
Speaker 1: photo shoots and workshops with people to try and help
Speaker 1: them connect with their bodies rather than hate them. Because
Speaker 1: my body still looks exactly the same as it did
Speaker 1: when I had my big insecurities, and all that I've
Speaker 1: changed is my mind, the way I think and connect
Speaker 1: with my body. So it's like I am a living
Speaker 1: example that you can change the way you feel without
Speaker 1: changing it under the knife.
Speaker 2: That's incredibly profound and applies not just to our volvers,
Speaker 2: but to all aspects of ours, doesn't it physically all
Speaker 2: the things that we focus on what's wrong with ourselves
Speaker 2: instead of seeing what's right, I mean thinking about it.
Speaker 1: I need to photograph so many people a week, and
Speaker 1: every single time they have a different story, there is
Speaker 1: always something I hate this. I hate this, I hate this,
Speaker 1: like people find so many things on their bodies to hate.
Speaker 2: How did you start photographingvolvers?
Speaker 1: So the first I ever photographed, I put up that
Speaker 1: post on Facebook. She was a midwife and she said
Speaker 1: to me, this is so crazy. I watched these mother's
Speaker 1: birth babies and they're not letting their partners stand at
Speaker 1: that end of the bed because they don't want to
Speaker 1: see their volvers or their vaginas, and they make them
Speaker 1: stand up here and She's like, this is something I'm
Speaker 1: so passionate about. So it was really cool that the
Speaker 1: first person who came forward, I was so awkward photographing her.
Speaker 1: I was like, got her to stand still and just
Speaker 1: photograph her and then she was like, no, baby, you
Speaker 1: need me laying down with my legs bread like you
Speaker 1: need to get right in there.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: She's like, this is the part that people are self
Speaker 1: conscious of. For me, I was more self conscious standing
Speaker 1: up because my labya goes down and so that was
Speaker 1: like my personal thing that I wanted to see. But
Speaker 1: she was like, this is what most people are self
Speaker 1: conscious of.
Speaker 2: Did you just do it with an iPhone?
Speaker 1: My dad actually showed me a camera. My dad's a photographer, teacher,
Speaker 1: and a photographer helps a lot. And he was really
Speaker 1: funny because he has a stall at the local shops
Speaker 1: on the Northern Beach. It's a pop up store, and
Speaker 1: he said like people were coming in constantly being like, oh,
Speaker 1: love what Ellie's doing. Love what Ellie's doing. Love what
Speaker 1: Ellie's doing. And so he ended up actually understanding why
Speaker 1: I was doing it, and then he felt quite sad
Speaker 1: because he was like, we nurtured you with so much love.
Speaker 1: We were constantly like you're so beautiful, you know, and
Speaker 1: he was like, I just can't get my head around
Speaker 1: how you felt so insecure. And he was like, I
Speaker 1: want to take you out for breakfast. So we went
Speaker 1: out for a beautiful meal, and he was like, if
Speaker 1: you explain to me from the start to the end
Speaker 1: of why you're doing this, I will give you like
Speaker 1: five photography lessons for twenty minutes a day a week.
Speaker 1: But I want you to get like a lawyer to
Speaker 1: protect yourself so that no one can ever you know,
Speaker 1: it's like risky business what I'm doing. I've got so
Speaker 1: many private photos of so many people. And so Dad
Speaker 1: just got down to logistics and was like, I'll help you.
Speaker 1: And then he said, but I want you to become
Speaker 1: a good photographer. Don't want you to be an amateurer.
Speaker 1: He's like, I want people to love the photos that
Speaker 1: you take of them.
Speaker 2: Interesting what your parents said, because it's something that a
Speaker 2: parent can't really reassure you about. Like your dad telling
Speaker 2: you you have a beautiful volver and you're a little
Speaker 2: girl is just not.
Speaker 1: I think, because he's so earthy and canoes and ab
Speaker 1: sales and you know, hates makeup and that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: and he's just thinks every single person on this earth
Speaker 1: is beautiful. Like every time I have a friend over,
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, you guys, looks so beautiful, even if
Speaker 1: we're in our pajamas, Like he does not see ugly
Speaker 1: in the world.
Speaker 2: For women, we learn about our bodies, unfortunately by comparing
Speaker 2: them to other women's bodies, or by watching how other
Speaker 2: people react yes to our bodies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then of course, like you and I have said,
Speaker 1: women so many times, but there's just people with wolvers.
Speaker 1: It's a whole big world. We've got to Chinese the
Speaker 1: right names for everything.
Speaker 2: And well that's a very conversation because there are women
Speaker 2: who have evolvers, and then there are non binary people
Speaker 2: who volvers.
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to include all of them in the
Speaker 1: project as well. Photographed two transgender women and it's incredible
Speaker 1: hearing their story. So the first transfer one a ever
Speaker 1: photographed came over at nine am and I told her
Speaker 1: that the photo shoot was going to finish it too,
Speaker 1: and she was having the best day of her whole life,
Speaker 1: like she could not leave my house. She was like
Speaker 1: just one more minute, like one more shoot, one more
Speaker 1: shoot because she was so proud of her vulver and
Speaker 1: she just had the surgery. And most time when I
Speaker 1: photographed people, they apologize. They're like, oh, I'm sorry if
Speaker 1: I smell or I'm sorry if I'm sweaty. And she
Speaker 1: was just standing there pointing to me and like, how
Speaker 1: beautiful is it? How beautiful is it? How good does
Speaker 1: it look?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Capture me l like this? Capture me like this? She
Speaker 1: was so proud of her vulver.
Speaker 2: I'm mea Friedman and you're listening to No Filter with
Speaker 2: Ellie's Sedgwick. When people come and book in to have
Speaker 2: their vulver photographed, is there a commonality in why they come.
Speaker 1: There? Is there usually?
Speaker 2: Is?
Speaker 1: It's very often a comment that's been said in high school.
Speaker 1: That's why eventually, once I bring out the book and everything,
Speaker 1: I want it in high schools. And I would love
Speaker 1: to personally go and speak to high school students because
Speaker 1: I'm like, you don't know the damage you're doing to people,
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't have to even be about the volvers,
Speaker 1: but I just want to get in there and be like,
Speaker 1: be kind, because one comment that's a throwaway in the
Speaker 1: bedroom can ruin someone's life forever and their sex life,
Speaker 1: which is so important and it should be something that
Speaker 1: should be celebrated. So yeah, it's often a comment. And
Speaker 1: then there's about ten topics that people come forward for.
Speaker 1: So there's obviously, like I mean, I say obviously because
Speaker 1: I'm so used to it, But do you know what
Speaker 1: vaginismus is?
Speaker 2: Very well, I don't have it, but there are many
Speaker 2: women that I work with who have vaginismus.
Speaker 1: Yes, So the first time I ever photographed someone with
Speaker 1: vaginismus was actually my pa Jasmine. And it's often got
Speaker 1: a lot to do with a religious background or religious upbringings,
Speaker 1: or shame around sex or trauma. So her in particular
Speaker 1: was a religious upbringing, and so then the night of
Speaker 1: her wedding when she went to have penetrate sex with
Speaker 1: her husband, she couldn't get it in and just called
Speaker 1: them muscles. It was just closed. So you can't put
Speaker 1: in a tampon, cu gumba, whatever you want to put in.
Speaker 1: Their hurts so much. They often say it feels like burning.
Speaker 1: But the thing is she'd heard that sex was painful,
Speaker 1: and so they kept trying and trying to trying, and
Speaker 1: because there's no education about vaginismus or hardly any education
Speaker 1: about what sex should be like at schools. No, it's changing,
Speaker 1: for sure. It used to just be like, don't do it.
Speaker 1: And so she tried for ages and then went to
Speaker 1: see a pelvic floor therapist, which if you're having painful sex,
Speaker 1: go and see someone because they can help you so much.
Speaker 2: They use little dilators to put.
Speaker 1: Tiny ones in and then teach you how to relax
Speaker 1: the muscles in your vagina.
Speaker 2: How would you find one of those?
Speaker 1: You can reach out to me and I can connect
Speaker 1: you to people, for sure, But go see your local
Speaker 1: GP and they'll connect you.
Speaker 2: Women come to you because they've got vaginismas.
Speaker 1: And the chat too, well, every single photo shoot, I
Speaker 1: say like why are you here? And then after a while,
Speaker 1: because I've been doing it for so many years now,
Speaker 1: I have found out how many different topics there are.
Speaker 1: And then what I do is I create a support
Speaker 1: network group on Instagram for all these topics. So, like
Speaker 1: lynchin'sclerocious back to your vaginosis reoccurring thrush herpes, I just
Speaker 1: created my fortieth herpees group chat. I have a group
Speaker 1: chat for literally everything.
Speaker 2: What do you mean?
Speaker 1: So if someone comes to me in a photoshoot and
Speaker 1: says like, I have reoccurring thrush. I just cannot get
Speaker 1: rid of it. I'm like, okay, great, I've got like
Speaker 1: five groups on Instagram of people that have the exact
Speaker 1: same problem. So I can put you in there and
Speaker 1: you can talk about what helped, maybe natural remedies.
Speaker 2: So you're like the Volver whisperer or the Vulva matchmaker,
Speaker 2: like the match on the roof, but with volvers. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, I have the most engaging Instagram you've ever met
Speaker 1: in your life, Like it just never ever, ever stops.
Speaker 1: And so I have so many people that feel comfortable
Speaker 1: in that space. And every day I get a message
Speaker 1: being like I've just been diagnosed with general or herb
Speaker 1: is is a very common one, but whatever it is,
Speaker 1: they know that. I'll be like, oh, no worries, I've
Speaker 1: got a group for that. It's like a joke on
Speaker 1: my Instagram.
Speaker 2: So we could have come to you to be photographed,
Speaker 2: like because they've got a recurring thrush or yeah I
Speaker 2: hope he's diagnosis.
Speaker 1: And they might just want someone to talk to about it.
Speaker 1: And so when I do a photoshoot, I have six
Speaker 1: people in every group, and so they it's.
Speaker 2: A group experience.
Speaker 1: It's a group experience.
Speaker 2: How did that come about? Because I imagine at first
Speaker 2: you only did one volver at.
Speaker 1: A time, and then I was trying to teach at
Speaker 1: the same time, and I'd have one day off a week,
Speaker 1: and so then I was like, would have so many
Speaker 1: people wanting to book in? It's high demand. You would
Speaker 1: never expect it, but I have so many people try
Speaker 1: to book in. And then I started realizing that when
Speaker 1: I was putting in two or three girls or people together,
Speaker 1: they would be like, oh, yeah, this has happened to me,
Speaker 1: and then this has happened to me, and then they'd
Speaker 1: be like, I did this to solve that. And so
Speaker 1: I was like, this is so beautiful watching people connect
Speaker 1: and share their stories and what healed them. And so
Speaker 1: I started being like, it's actually better when there's a
Speaker 1: bigger group.
Speaker 2: And when they get to the photoshoot, are people naked
Speaker 2: in front of each other? Some people more shy, Like
Speaker 2: you must have noticed the way things tend to go,
Speaker 2: like do people start off shy and then walking around
Speaker 2: with my pants?
Speaker 1: So I can, pretty much without exaggerating, tell you that
Speaker 1: every single photoshoot I've ever done. Someone has messaged me
Speaker 1: being like, I don't want to be naked in front
Speaker 1: of someone else. Can I go into another en to
Speaker 1: do my shoot? And I always say yes. And then
Speaker 1: it's not just like they come in and they get naked,
Speaker 1: like we usually do two hours worth of workshop activities
Speaker 1: and then after that, I say, okay, who wants to
Speaker 1: be photographed first? And then that person has never kept
Speaker 1: their clothes often put them back on, like and so
Speaker 1: it's every single photo shoot they come back naked and
Speaker 1: they all stay naked. And I can't explain how I
Speaker 1: do it, but I create a very safe space and
Speaker 1: it's a slow process, and no one has ever put
Speaker 1: their clothes back on for the end of the workshop.
Speaker 1: They love being naked. They storm around my house, little venue,
Speaker 1: whatever I've rented, and.
Speaker 2: They just love my parts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're showing each other like, look at this
Speaker 1: mole on my lady, are this is what I'm self
Speaker 1: conscious for. Last week we had a girl showing us
Speaker 1: her buttthole because she had a skin tag and everyone
Speaker 1: was right in there.
Speaker 2: Wow, how interesting, Because I guess men see other penises
Speaker 2: from when they're young, like you know, I mean, boys
Speaker 2: are always pulling them out when they're little and then
Speaker 2: you know, wing outdoors or in a urinal or in
Speaker 2: a you know, group shower whatever after sport. But for women,
Speaker 2: I haven't ever seen a real life volver up close.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they love looking at each other's after the photo shoots.
Speaker 1: They're always very happy to do that, which is so beautiful.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I let boys come. Sometimes people are like, my
Speaker 1: partner wants to come, is that okay? And I'll check
Speaker 1: with the group and if it's okay, then a partner
Speaker 1: group would say it's okay for it's group, or if
Speaker 1: it's like people that know each other, and then they're like,
Speaker 1: can I bring my partner?
Speaker 2: I wish people could see my face. My face is
Speaker 2: just like okay, So I'm getting my volve of photographed
Speaker 2: and then there's gonna be other people there that I
Speaker 2: don't know, and I don't know the photographer, and also
Speaker 2: someone's bringing their partner, no problem.
Speaker 1: It hasn't happened for maybe two years that a partner's come,
Speaker 1: but there was a while there where people were like,
Speaker 1: can I bring? But also some men are just beautiful
Speaker 1: and want to learn anat of me, and they I
Speaker 1: have men reach out to me being like, I love
Speaker 1: what you do and if I can be part of
Speaker 1: it in any way, shape or form, I absolutely will.
Speaker 1: So I think it's really natural for us to lead
Speaker 1: down this path where we're like, oh, they just want
Speaker 1: to see, but sometimes boys do just want to learn,
Speaker 1: and like a lot of the stuff I teach is like,
Speaker 1: you know, connecting with your pussy and having good sex
Speaker 1: isn't about technique. It's about being comfortable. It's why it's
Speaker 1: called comfortable in my skin. And so many guys are like,
Speaker 1: I want to learn to be a better Ellie, and
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to spend time with them and teach
Speaker 1: them what I know, because you know, I feel like
Speaker 1: I do have a world of knowledge and I want
Speaker 1: to share it. So men shouldn't be able to miss
Speaker 1: out on that too.
Speaker 2: That's so true. And you know, I think that your
Speaker 2: book is going to be so brilliant because I was
Speaker 2: going to say, as mothers, how do we teach our
Speaker 2: sons and our daughters, Yeah, that the volvers that they
Speaker 2: see in porn, which they're going to see a lot of, yeah,
Speaker 2: are not necessarily natural. They've often been surgically enhanced or else.
Speaker 2: The women who go into porn are more comfortable because
Speaker 2: they look a certain way. How do we teach our
Speaker 2: kids about the diversity of exposure, like.
Speaker 1: What you said in a safe way. So when I
Speaker 1: lived in Manly, I had all the photos printed out
Speaker 1: on polaroids and they were along every single bit of
Speaker 1: my wall, like there was just volvers everywhere. And obviously,
Speaker 1: because I had said to you before, I'm a preschool
Speaker 1: teacher and I would nanny all the time, and I
Speaker 1: would always speak to the mums and be like, you
Speaker 1: just have to know that if your child comes to
Speaker 1: my house, they're going to see a whole lot of volvers.
Speaker 1: And I've had so many beautiful experiences with kids that
Speaker 1: are like eight, being like, look, this one's hairy, Like
Speaker 1: what color pubes do you think you'll have? And they
Speaker 1: love it. They giggle and they're like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: like I've got red hair. I've got this beautiful video
Speaker 1: of this girl and she has red hair and her
Speaker 1: mum has red hair, and she says, I think I'm
Speaker 1: going to have red pubes like my mom, and her
Speaker 1: mom was like cuddling her, I should show you the video.
Speaker 1: It's so gorgeous, goodhou And so I just think it's
Speaker 1: like normalizing it in a really safe space. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: just like leaving flips through my flaps on the coffee
Speaker 1: table for them to look at when they're ready, and
Speaker 1: maybe when they're alone and they feel comfortable and they
Speaker 1: want to just flip through it. That's what I needed
Speaker 1: when I was younger. I'm just creating what I think
Speaker 1: would have helped me.
Speaker 2: When you talk to straight men about volvers, what do
Speaker 2: they tell you? It depends if they're alone or in
Speaker 2: a group, or it depends on life speak about that.
Speaker 1: I think that when they're one on one, they're often like,
Speaker 1: wear's the G spot was all the pleasure points? Like,
Speaker 1: so they want to know. They want to know better
Speaker 1: how they can pleasure a girl more. Definitely, they're very inquisitive,
Speaker 1: and so that's when I'm sort of like, well, it's
Speaker 1: all about communicating because I can speak for what feels
Speaker 1: good for me, but I'm not going to be able
Speaker 1: to speak for what feels good for the next person
Speaker 1: you sleep with. So I love having these kind of
Speaker 1: conversation with my male friends just to be like it's
Speaker 1: okay to ask, but you know, sometimes they don't even
Speaker 1: know what to ask for. So are you by it
Speaker 1: all or am I yeah?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, it's not yet.
Speaker 1: I noticed when I have sex with a woman compared
Speaker 1: to when I have sex with a man, it's so different.
Speaker 2: In what way is it different?
Speaker 1: For example, my ex and I, when we had sex,
Speaker 1: it would be like a four hour magic thing of
Speaker 1: like you know, it wasn't even four play four play
Speaker 1: was the sex like we would.
Speaker 2: Have sounds very tiring, Alli, No, no, but.
Speaker 1: We'd have oils. We'd be blindfolded, for example, and we'd
Speaker 1: have oils just smelling them and like putting them behind
Speaker 1: our ears and have amazing zick plane and like starting
Speaker 1: with the body massage. And it was a huge like tease.
Speaker 1: And then I find when I have sex with men,
Speaker 1: not all men, they're on top. I'm bam, thank you,
Speaker 1: Ma'm roll over, go to sleep, not after care. Whereas
Speaker 1: with a woman. Hate to generalize, but we're lay in
Speaker 1: bed kissing for so long after either of us has orgasm,
Speaker 1: be like, you know, debrief, how is that for? You
Speaker 1: did that feel good? I loved it when you did that.
Speaker 1: And then the next day, oh my gosh, remember when
Speaker 1: you did that? It felt amazing And the communication just
Speaker 1: feels so much better. So I love explaining this to
Speaker 1: my straight male friends, being like, talk more, ask what
Speaker 1: they want, Like, You're.
Speaker 2: Right, because I was gonna ask. In straight sex, the
Speaker 2: male orgasm is kind of like the definitive end point usually,
Speaker 2: or that certainly was often we've been led to believe,
Speaker 2: you know, in everything that we've always seen in popular culture.
Speaker 2: But in sex between two women, it's not that.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's no endpoint, and once you've orgasmed, you can
Speaker 1: still I don't know why, but when I have sex
Speaker 1: with the guy again, I'm just speaking from me personally,
Speaker 1: they so often just finish and they're done, and I'm
Speaker 1: not even close to done, because as a volver owner
Speaker 1: often we take out way longer time to climax and
Speaker 1: it's like they just don't even care about your pleasure,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, hey, I'm not at all finished, you know.
Speaker 1: And so so many people think that they can't orgasm.
Speaker 1: I have groups for that as well. They tell me
Speaker 1: all the time like I've never had an orgasm, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, that's sad, that's sad, and you can.
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with you. Sometimes people do find it
Speaker 1: really hard, but I truly believe that we can all
Speaker 1: have really great, pleasurable sex. And sometimes it's not done
Speaker 1: in the way that you see in porn. It's done
Speaker 1: in like really slow, gentle activating all the senses or
Speaker 1: you know, whatever's your blue erotic print, like maybe kinks
Speaker 1: what works for you or senses. You know. It's just
Speaker 1: everyone has a different way to get off and you
Speaker 1: just need to find what it is.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you how if there's a difference
Speaker 2: in the way queer women and straight women feel about
Speaker 2: their volvers, because I interviewed Sophicacia and she had a labiaplasty.
Speaker 2: She was always very conscious of her labia. She hadn't
Speaker 2: seen any other labia except her sisters because she'd have
Speaker 2: bards and she had three sisters and they didn't have outias,
Speaker 2: and she did, and she was always self conscious and
Speaker 2: it was uncomfortable when she was wearing clothes or riding
Speaker 2: a bike. And she said, now that she's queer and
Speaker 2: she's seen a lot more volvers, yeah, she wishes she
Speaker 2: hadn't done it because she realizes that she wasn't as
Speaker 2: quote mark abnormal as she thought.
Speaker 1: This is exactly what I said to you. It's just
Speaker 1: a lack of seeing them. Like it's not even if
Speaker 1: you're queer or straight. It's like how many you've seen
Speaker 1: in my opinion, Like that's why I just plus this everywhere,
Speaker 1: like go on my website, look at it. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I had someone do something credible for me once. They
Speaker 1: said to me after the third time we'd had sex,
Speaker 1: like why are you so self conscious of your vulva
Speaker 1: or I think he said pussy and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not and he was like, no, you are, Like
Speaker 1: you stand with your hands like covering your pussy in
Speaker 1: the shower, and you walked backwards to the bedroom and
Speaker 1: dropped your towel like you've put yourself in so many
Speaker 1: positions so I can't see you. It didn't matter if
Speaker 1: it was a boy or a girl that did this
Speaker 1: to me. It's just someone that's like self aware.
Speaker 2: I was going to say, very self aware that he's.
Speaker 1: And aware of like the person that he was sleeping with.
Speaker 1: And I just like cried more than I've ever cried
Speaker 1: in my life, and he was like, let me just
Speaker 1: see what you look like. And for me, that was
Speaker 1: so healing. And so I think it's kind of like
Speaker 1: if you're lucky enough to sleep with someone that's having conscious,
Speaker 1: lovely sex and that wants to be there and wants
Speaker 1: to make you feel good. And then he went to
Speaker 1: so much effort to make me feel like beautiful because
Speaker 1: he could realize I was self conscious. And then following that,
Speaker 1: I have had really nice partners that are women that
Speaker 1: do similar things. And so I just think it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter if you're straight or gay, it's just whoever you're
Speaker 1: sleeping with, trying and sleep with people that are lovely
Speaker 1: if you can.
Speaker 2: The people you know who've had labiaplastis, have you photographed them?
Speaker 1: One I have, but she doesn't want it to go
Speaker 1: in the book. She was like, this is purely a
Speaker 1: thing for you and me, and that's fine. Like often
Speaker 1: I photograph people and they're like, I don't want this
Speaker 1: to go anywhere. This is like a pure healing process
Speaker 1: for me. That's almost like delete the photos. It's the
Speaker 1: process of having them taken that is the healing for them. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And then the other one, she's very keen to be photographed,
Speaker 1: but I just have not got round to it. But
Speaker 1: she's still very very self conscious, even though she's had
Speaker 1: the surgery, still hasn't had an orgasm at thirty two
Speaker 1: and thinks it's because of cutting off the nerve endings.
Speaker 1: But I've told her I as my own opinion, I
Speaker 1: don't think it's that because I know people that have
Speaker 1: had labiaplasty that can still orgasm. I just think that
Speaker 1: she is in like fight or flight motes still and
Speaker 1: she can't let go, and an orgasms all about letting go.
Speaker 2: I should have asked you what people want to do
Speaker 2: with the photos.
Speaker 1: A lot of them are proud to be part of
Speaker 1: the change that I'm creating, and everyone's got a different thing.
Speaker 1: Like so I give a poloid at each photo. Shit,
Speaker 1: So so many times people send it to me and
Speaker 1: they're like, it's next to my bed, or they keep
Speaker 1: it in their wallet as like a self empowered they
Speaker 1: give it to a lover, they frame it. It's pretty cool. Actually,
Speaker 1: I have got come from my skin tattooed on me. See,
Speaker 1: and there's six people in the world now that have
Speaker 1: come to my skin tattooed on them, and so they're
Speaker 1: just like comfortable. My skin just represents like confidence and
Speaker 1: love for yourself. So I think it's the same with
Speaker 1: the vulb or they like carry it around the vulb
Speaker 1: of photo and they're like, whenever I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: not good enough or I'm ugly or different, I can
Speaker 1: look at this and be like, no, I'm beautiful.
Speaker 2: Just finally, if someone's listening to this and they might
Speaker 2: be feeling very emotional because maybe they feel really self
Speaker 2: conscious about their volver and maybe they didn't even realize
Speaker 2: how it was impacting their sex life or how they
Speaker 2: felt about themselves, what should they do? What are some
Speaker 2: of the tangible things that they can do? I think
Speaker 2: talk about it. I'm a huge to who audy.
Speaker 1: You can come to me. I put you in one
Speaker 1: of the groups message me. I mean I do this constantly.
Speaker 1: Every single day. Someone reaches out and says like I've
Speaker 1: just found you through this, like I've spent a whole
Speaker 1: life in hiding. I can't not even my husband of
Speaker 1: blah blah blah like seeming naked like, and I always
Speaker 1: try and then help them. It is getting harder because
Speaker 1: it's corresting like.
Speaker 2: An angel on Earth, because that's a lot of unpaid
Speaker 2: work for you.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of unpaid work, which is something that
Speaker 1: I'm navigating right now is that there's not enough of
Speaker 1: me to do the work I'm doing. But I do
Speaker 1: have a lot of groups where it's like these people
Speaker 1: are all self conscious of their volver and so I
Speaker 1: pop them in there and then I try and give
Speaker 1: like group advice and say this is what helped me,
Speaker 1: this is what you can do.
Speaker 2: And if someone wanted to get their volve a photographed,
Speaker 2: You're probably are booked out, aren't you.
Speaker 1: I'm onto us, so you can message me again and
Speaker 1: just see where I'm at right now. I'm in Tasmania.
Speaker 1: I flew in today straight off the playing to you
Speaker 1: maya very honored and then I head to I'm going
Speaker 1: all around Australia, so wherever you are. I do small towns,
Speaker 1: big towns do so many events events, yes, so each town.
Speaker 1: I mean I usually do like a dominate Trix event.
Speaker 1: What's that, Well, it's when everyone comes dressed in leather
Speaker 1: or as a dom but you can wear just all
Speaker 1: black if you want. And then I bring in dominate
Speaker 1: tricks who teach different kinds of play because maybe you
Speaker 1: didn't even know you were into kink. You just haven't
Speaker 1: been opened up to the world. So we all have
Speaker 1: different levels of what's like kinky for us. It doesn't
Speaker 1: mean it's like has to be like painful play. It
Speaker 1: can be something in your mind that you find naughty.
Speaker 1: So I love teaching people different ways that they can
Speaker 1: have kink play. So I do that through hiring dominatrix,
Speaker 1: and then we might have someone come in and teach
Speaker 1: the art of seduction. Everywhere I go, I fly in
Speaker 1: different people to teach someone something that's maybe a little
Speaker 1: bit taboo but could help their sex life or their
Speaker 1: sexuality a lot.
Speaker 2: You're amazing, You're amazing. When's the book going to be out?
Speaker 2: And how can we support your work from the outside
Speaker 2: if perhaps we don't want to have our own volvers photograph,
Speaker 2: but we want to help support what you do.
Speaker 1: So the book I have actually got enough folvers to
Speaker 1: bring out a book right now. But there is no
Speaker 1: diversity in this book. I do not know why I
Speaker 1: am struggling so much to get women of color, bigger women,
Speaker 1: elder women. I'm just seem to be photographing white bossie
Speaker 1: gal and so I do so many call outs. And
Speaker 1: not long ago, I went up to someone on the beach,
Speaker 1: this beautiful black woman, and I tried to explain her
Speaker 1: in a really nice way, and then I never heard
Speaker 1: back from her. She didn't check kindly to that, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm never doing that again. I'm just
Speaker 1: like I I was so so innocent. I was just like,
Speaker 1: you know, if you want to just come and have
Speaker 1: your breast photograph or just like even do an interview
Speaker 1: on your sex like on my page, I'm just trying
Speaker 1: so hard and I'm not getting any diversity, all right.
Speaker 2: So anyone who is perhaps a woman of color.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would love to do. Someone who has had
Speaker 1: female jes FGMFGM genital mutilation. I would love to meet
Speaker 1: someone like that to share that kind of story. Or
Speaker 1: you know in countries where they pull the LaBier, they
Speaker 1: want it longer, you know, just a different kind of story.
Speaker 1: And until there is a representation of every single person
Speaker 1: in this world in my book, I will not bring
Speaker 1: my work out.
Speaker 2: Ellie was such a joy to chat with, and I
Speaker 2: really want to try and help her finish the book.
Speaker 2: So if you are interested in being photographed, especially if
Speaker 2: you have one of the folvers that she hasn't yet
Speaker 2: photographed for inclusion in her book, or if you just
Speaker 2: want to support her work more broadly. There's a link
Speaker 2: in the show notes, and there's more of my conversation
Speaker 2: with Ellie for Mum and Maya subscribers. We've kind of
Speaker 2: done a bit of like a sealed section version of
Speaker 2: this conversation if you're old enough to remember magazine sealed sections.
Speaker 2: We talked about a fairly detailed explanation of how Ellie
Speaker 2: achieved the best orgasm of her life. We talked about vibrators,
Speaker 2: about sex. Take a listen, here's a little bit.
Speaker 1: This one night, I was watching my reflection and I
Speaker 1: was dat sing and I was like touching myself. I
Speaker 1: wasn't intentionally trying to have an orgasm, but I ended
Speaker 1: up having the most transformative, back arching, like couch grabbing
Speaker 1: orgasm of my probably my life. And it was because
Speaker 1: I had been doing the mirror work.
Speaker 2: And there's a link in the show notes to hear
Speaker 2: the rest of that bonus episode right now. This episode
Speaker 2: of No Filter was produced by GM moylan and the
Speaker 2: executive producer he lies Ratliffe. See you next week, Hm,