WEBVTT - Taylor, Travis & The Breakup Document 0:00:10.327 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:23.767 that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to 0:00:23.807 --> 0:00:26.687 Mamma Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking about. 0:00:26.727 --> 0:00:29.847 On Monday, the ninth of September, I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm 0:00:29.887 --> 0:00:30.847 mea Friedman. 0:00:30.567 --> 0:00:32.287 And I'm Jesse Stevens and on. 0:00:32.287 --> 0:00:35.607 The show today why women all over the world are 0:00:35.647 --> 0:00:40.687 sharing one very disturbing story, also a leaked fake breakup 0:00:40.687 --> 0:00:44.407 agreement and a stream of very public PDA. Travis and 0:00:44.447 --> 0:00:49.287 Taylor's updated PR strategy and every zeitgeistee show and movie 0:00:49.367 --> 0:00:52.007 right now features a divorced mum and a younger man. 0:00:52.407 --> 0:00:55.487 But that's not the age gap relationship we're seeing all 0:00:55.527 --> 0:00:59.847 over the Venice Film Festival red carpet. But first, Mia Freed. 0:01:00.207 --> 0:01:01.247 In case you missed. 0:01:00.967 --> 0:01:04.727 It, Border control has a new enemy, the glam passport photo. 0:01:05.527 --> 0:01:10.487 Across social media, women across the world have been complaining 0:01:10.887 --> 0:01:15.967 that the unrecognizably hot photos in their travel documents are 0:01:16.047 --> 0:01:18.767 causing them to get delayed when they're trying to get 0:01:18.767 --> 0:01:22.807 through passport control. When they're traveling, officials are noticing that 0:01:22.807 --> 0:01:25.967 they're looking very different in real life and questioning their identity, 0:01:26.527 --> 0:01:30.287 or they are failing the facial recognition scans. 0:01:30.567 --> 0:01:33.287 This is not at all an issue for me. I 0:01:33.327 --> 0:01:36.487 saw mine, my most recent one, because the lighting's never good. 0:01:36.487 --> 0:01:39.287 It's from above, it's not front on. So every fine 0:01:39.367 --> 0:01:41.367 line I looked at mine and I went, I need 0:01:41.367 --> 0:01:44.647 botox immediately, like I had an existential crisis. And every 0:01:44.647 --> 0:01:47.007 time I go through any security and they look at 0:01:47.047 --> 0:01:51.087 my passport photo and let me through, I want to 0:01:51.167 --> 0:01:53.407 stay the revolt because that's not even a double take. 0:01:53.487 --> 0:01:56.047 It's like, oh, yeah, this ugly bitch is this Oh this. 0:01:55.887 --> 0:01:58.087 Is what you're meant to do. So a travel agent 0:01:58.167 --> 0:02:01.807 called Denise and Brusco Maida who has a travel agency 0:02:01.847 --> 0:02:05.847 called Travel Brilliant. She reacted to this trend of influencers 0:02:05.847 --> 0:02:09.767 saying it's so terrible I'm being delayed through customs. She 0:02:09.967 --> 0:02:12.687 made her own TikTok video and she said it's a 0:02:12.727 --> 0:02:15.687 reminder not to do hot girl makeup few passport photos. 0:02:15.687 --> 0:02:17.967 I purposely take my passport photo to look like a 0:02:17.967 --> 0:02:18.607 swamp rat. 0:02:19.567 --> 0:02:20.887 That's how you look at the end of a long, 0:02:20.927 --> 0:02:21.447 whole flo. 0:02:21.527 --> 0:02:23.847 It's true, she said. Her advice is to think about 0:02:23.887 --> 0:02:25.447 what you might look like after you've been on a 0:02:25.487 --> 0:02:28.087 flight for fifteen hours overnight in a middle seat, and 0:02:28.127 --> 0:02:30.807 take a photo that looks like that whole situation instead. 0:02:30.887 --> 0:02:33.127 That's awesome because I didn't know that's what I was doing, 0:02:33.127 --> 0:02:34.167 but that's what I was doing. 0:02:34.327 --> 0:02:34.527 Yeah. 0:02:34.567 --> 0:02:36.087 You know how often when you go back and look 0:02:36.087 --> 0:02:37.607 at a picture of yourself when you were young and 0:02:37.647 --> 0:02:39.687 you hated it then, and you look back and you go, oh, no, 0:02:39.807 --> 0:02:42.367 I was I looked great when I was young. Not 0:02:42.407 --> 0:02:44.807 with passport pictures. Pictures. 0:02:44.847 --> 0:02:46.767 I'm like, but why would you want a hot one? 0:02:46.807 --> 0:02:48.807 Because the thing about a passport photo is it's just 0:02:48.847 --> 0:02:51.687 between you and maybe you're very close travel partner and 0:02:51.727 --> 0:02:54.007 a border officer. It's not like you're putting it on 0:02:54.047 --> 0:02:55.687 the internet, So why does it need to be hot? 0:02:55.847 --> 0:02:59.167 Well, Mama Mia out loud. Guest host em Vernon had 0:02:59.167 --> 0:03:01.887 this exact problem. She's not like us. She didn't want 0:03:01.887 --> 0:03:04.607 to look like a swamp rat. Here's what happened recently 0:03:04.647 --> 0:03:06.167 when she had to renew her passport. 0:03:06.527 --> 0:03:10.327 So I had to get my passport photo redone, and 0:03:10.367 --> 0:03:12.047 my friend was like, no, you have to go to 0:03:12.087 --> 0:03:14.127 this place. Look at my passport photo and I looked 0:03:14.127 --> 0:03:16.407 at her passport photo. She looked amazing. So I was like, okay, 0:03:16.447 --> 0:03:18.567 I'm going to go to this place. It cost me 0:03:18.687 --> 0:03:20.487 twenty dollars, and I thought it was just a place 0:03:20.527 --> 0:03:23.447 I did really good passport photos. But then she took 0:03:23.527 --> 0:03:26.287 my photo to her computer and started like touching up 0:03:26.567 --> 0:03:29.407 my face in front of like everyone in the store. 0:03:29.407 --> 0:03:30.727 So everyone in the store was watching this. 0:03:30.847 --> 0:03:31.927 And it looked so good. 0:03:31.927 --> 0:03:32.767 I looked really good in it. 0:03:32.767 --> 0:03:34.927 I didn't look different to myself, but I just looked 0:03:35.047 --> 0:03:37.447 a better version of myself. I did ask her if 0:03:37.447 --> 0:03:40.007 she could photoshop about my double chin, to which she 0:03:40.047 --> 0:03:44.447 said no, But yeah, I paid twenty dollars to have 0:03:44.567 --> 0:03:46.047 my passport photo retouched. 0:03:46.447 --> 0:03:47.247 She may regret that. 0:03:47.687 --> 0:03:50.047 Oh my god, I'm just saying, you're not even allowed 0:03:50.087 --> 0:03:52.367 to smile in your passport picture. That's how much like 0:03:52.407 --> 0:03:55.047 yourself you have to look. I think AM's gonna be 0:03:55.047 --> 0:03:55.487 in trouble. 0:03:57.127 --> 0:04:00.847 The story we're about to discuss is the French rape case, 0:04:01.007 --> 0:04:04.167 and if you've heard about it, you'll know how confronting 0:04:04.287 --> 0:04:07.887 some of the details are. So this is just a warning. 0:04:07.967 --> 0:04:09.527 If you've not heard about it, or if you have 0:04:09.527 --> 0:04:11.727 little ears around, then perhaps skip and you can come 0:04:11.767 --> 0:04:16.247 back later. There's a tweet going viral this week by 0:04:16.327 --> 0:04:20.247 doctor Charlotte Proudman that reads, not all men but Gizelle 0:04:20.247 --> 0:04:23.527 Pelico's husband, who reportedly drugged and raped her for over 0:04:23.567 --> 0:04:27.247 ten years. Not all men but ninety plus male strangers, 0:04:27.287 --> 0:04:30.727 mostly living within one kilometer of her home. Not all men, 0:04:30.847 --> 0:04:34.367 but men with STDs and HIV who didn't use condoms. 0:04:34.887 --> 0:04:39.087 Not all men but her polite neighbor. The tweet refers 0:04:39.087 --> 0:04:41.447 to what is considered one of the worst abuse trials 0:04:41.487 --> 0:04:44.687 in France's history and the collective despair felt by women 0:04:44.767 --> 0:04:48.527 all over the world. Gizelle Pellico married a man named 0:04:48.607 --> 0:04:53.087 Dominique Pellico, and together they had three kids, then seven grandchildren. 0:04:53.407 --> 0:04:58.127 They lived in a province in southeastern France. In twenty twenty, 0:04:58.287 --> 0:05:01.647 local French police invited Gizelle to speak to them after 0:05:01.727 --> 0:05:05.287 her husband of fifty years was arrested for filming up 0:05:05.327 --> 0:05:09.007 women's skirts in their local town. While in this interview, 0:05:09.327 --> 0:05:13.367 investigators presented her with an image of herself unconscious in 0:05:13.407 --> 0:05:16.487 her bedroom. She was being raped by a man who 0:05:16.527 --> 0:05:19.847 was not her husband. This image was just the beginning. 0:05:20.047 --> 0:05:23.687 There were dozens of videos involving dozens and dozens of 0:05:23.727 --> 0:05:28.327 men found on Dominique's computer under a file named abuse. 0:05:29.087 --> 0:05:31.687 It was only then that Gizelle realized she had been 0:05:31.687 --> 0:05:35.687 subjected to a decade of sexual abuse, orchestrated and filmed 0:05:35.687 --> 0:05:38.327 by her husband, who drugged her with a cocktail of 0:05:38.367 --> 0:05:42.687 medication before inviting men into their home. The trial started 0:05:42.767 --> 0:05:45.967 last week, and Gizelle has waived her right to anonymity. 0:05:46.567 --> 0:05:50.047 On the stand, she gave evidence for nineteen minutes explaining 0:05:50.087 --> 0:05:53.207 how she thought she had Alzheimer's after years of memory 0:05:53.287 --> 0:05:58.087 lapses and unexplained health problems. Dominique has admitted to the 0:05:58.207 --> 0:06:01.567 charges against him. If this were a simpler story, we 0:06:01.607 --> 0:06:05.487 would dismiss him as a monster a psychopath. But what 0:06:05.567 --> 0:06:09.887 makes this crime more sinister is the willing of these 0:06:09.887 --> 0:06:14.807 seemingly ordinary men, a polite neighbor, a local counselor, a nurse, 0:06:15.167 --> 0:06:19.367 a former police officer, a firefighter, to perpetrate a violent 0:06:19.487 --> 0:06:23.767 crime when invited to do so. So far, fourteen of 0:06:23.807 --> 0:06:28.207 the defendants have confessed to aggravated rate, and not one 0:06:28.247 --> 0:06:31.007 of these men, even those who walked away and did 0:06:31.007 --> 0:06:34.607 not perpetrate abuse, made a phone call to police. This 0:06:34.687 --> 0:06:37.767 is a story about bystanders and a network of men, 0:06:38.327 --> 0:06:41.767 most sourced from the internet, who committed these depraved acts 0:06:41.847 --> 0:06:46.487 with such apparent ease. Holly, what do you think this 0:06:46.607 --> 0:06:47.567 story tells us. 0:06:48.127 --> 0:06:50.967 I've been turning away from it for days because it 0:06:51.047 --> 0:06:54.207 is just so upsetting. I think one of the reasons 0:06:54.207 --> 0:06:57.047 why women are sharing this story so much. Obviously, it's 0:06:57.087 --> 0:06:59.047 extreme and it's shocking, and it's not something you read 0:06:59.047 --> 0:07:01.327 all the time, so there's a factor of it of 0:07:01.407 --> 0:07:05.207 just like, oh gosh, I hadn't heard about this, But 0:07:05.327 --> 0:07:09.567 women are sharing this because it feels to me least. 0:07:10.287 --> 0:07:10.527 I know. 0:07:10.567 --> 0:07:12.967 There are a lot of men who really smart at 0:07:13.007 --> 0:07:16.047 the idea that one depraved man's actions at anything other 0:07:16.087 --> 0:07:19.407 than one depraved man's actions, and they're like, it's sort 0:07:19.447 --> 0:07:22.567 of victim blaming to cast all men with any kind 0:07:22.607 --> 0:07:25.847 of smear about men being violent, because men are violent 0:07:25.847 --> 0:07:29.727 against men as well, and that's true, right, But this story, 0:07:29.767 --> 0:07:32.807 as you've said, is so much about bystanderds and it's 0:07:32.807 --> 0:07:36.727 not actually only about bystanders. It's about a whole system. 0:07:37.367 --> 0:07:42.087 Because the place where her husband, Dominic Pellico, went to 0:07:42.487 --> 0:07:45.407 source these guys who wanted to come and have sex 0:07:45.447 --> 0:07:48.607 with his unconscious wife, come and rape his unconscious wife. 0:07:49.367 --> 0:07:52.407 Was a chat room on a social media platform called 0:07:52.407 --> 0:07:54.527 Coco that's been closed down since then, but there was 0:07:54.567 --> 0:07:57.887 a specific chat within that that was called something that 0:07:57.927 --> 0:08:01.847 translates as without their knowledge. So we can imagine that 0:08:01.967 --> 0:08:04.887 this wasn't the only particular incident of this that was 0:08:04.887 --> 0:08:07.927 circulating on that chat room, and we can also imagine 0:08:08.247 --> 0:08:11.087 that there are other platforms and other chat rooms that 0:08:11.127 --> 0:08:14.087 exist where this kind of content is being shared. And 0:08:14.127 --> 0:08:19.527 it makes women feel so unsafe because we're already being 0:08:19.607 --> 0:08:22.087 told every day that we're imagining it that all men 0:08:22.207 --> 0:08:24.367 are violent, and we're imagining it that all men would 0:08:24.367 --> 0:08:26.887 condone this kind of behavior, and of course they wouldn't. 0:08:27.287 --> 0:08:29.527 But the fact that this is her loving husband. She 0:08:29.647 --> 0:08:31.607 is on record as saying that they were married for 0:08:31.647 --> 0:08:34.367 fifty years and she thought they had a perfect marriage. 0:08:34.407 --> 0:08:36.967 Not just the people around them, but she did, and 0:08:37.047 --> 0:08:39.367 her loving husband was doing this to her for more 0:08:39.367 --> 0:08:42.087 than a decade, and now it seems that he may 0:08:42.167 --> 0:08:45.407 well have also been taking pictures of his daughter, his 0:08:45.527 --> 0:08:46.247 daughter in law. 0:08:46.687 --> 0:08:47.247 We have no. 0:08:47.287 --> 0:08:50.927 Idea how wide these tentacles stretch. And I think the 0:08:50.967 --> 0:08:53.447 reason that we've been are passing this story around. There's 0:08:53.487 --> 0:08:56.967 also been some other really horrendous, high profile stories this week. 0:08:57.167 --> 0:08:58.727 There was a woman that we all watched run a 0:08:58.727 --> 0:09:02.047 marathon in Paris just a few weeks ago, who was 0:09:02.127 --> 0:09:04.647 murdered by her partner just a few days ago. She's 0:09:04.647 --> 0:09:08.927 a marathon runner called Rebecca Cheptege, and she was murdered 0:09:08.927 --> 0:09:12.047 by her partner in the most horrific circumstances. Couple those 0:09:12.367 --> 0:09:15.327 with the relentless barrage we get week after week about 0:09:15.367 --> 0:09:19.647 a violent incident, and women are just feeling we're feeling crazy, 0:09:19.807 --> 0:09:21.567 like it's not the right word. I know it's not 0:09:21.647 --> 0:09:23.687 the right word, but this story is the kind of 0:09:23.727 --> 0:09:25.847 story that makes you feel crazy because you're like, it's 0:09:25.887 --> 0:09:28.287 not just one guy, as you've said, it was a 0:09:28.327 --> 0:09:31.007 whole community of guys. I've read the mayor of this town, 0:09:31.007 --> 0:09:33.087 who obviously doesn't want the stench of this to stick 0:09:33.127 --> 0:09:36.087 to his town, saying, we had no idea, we didn't 0:09:36.127 --> 0:09:38.447 really know him. They'd moved to it quite recently, and 0:09:38.487 --> 0:09:41.887 it's not like anybody died. He said, ah, you know, 0:09:41.967 --> 0:09:44.767 there's a possible pass there and a translation slip, but 0:09:44.847 --> 0:09:46.687 he said, this is not like anybody died or a 0:09:46.767 --> 0:09:49.207 child was murdered. This is a woman's rape. And if 0:09:49.247 --> 0:09:52.927 that kind of context in a world where it feels 0:09:53.007 --> 0:09:56.047 like our safety is not something we can guarantee, our 0:09:56.127 --> 0:09:59.007 rights are not something we can guarantee. That's why this 0:09:59.087 --> 0:10:02.087 story is resonating so hard. As well as the extraordinary 0:10:02.127 --> 0:10:03.367 bravery of this woman. 0:10:03.367 --> 0:10:07.527 That's why her testimony is so important. I don't think 0:10:07.527 --> 0:10:11.367 anyone can quite grasp the strength of someone to sit 0:10:11.407 --> 0:10:14.687 there for ninety minutes and talk about what happened to her. 0:10:14.767 --> 0:10:17.367 And of course the way that a courtroom will unfold 0:10:17.407 --> 0:10:19.287 we've seen this in Australia is that the only way 0:10:19.367 --> 0:10:22.207 to defend any of these people is to suggest that 0:10:22.247 --> 0:10:25.567 there was some kind of open marriage where she was 0:10:25.607 --> 0:10:27.447 a willing participant, and that's been brought up. So she 0:10:27.487 --> 0:10:29.567 has to sit in a courtroom where they're saying that, 0:10:29.607 --> 0:10:32.127 where the other side is referring to it as you know, 0:10:32.207 --> 0:10:36.567 consensual sex. But she has said some version of I 0:10:36.607 --> 0:10:40.007 will never be okay like this. This has absolutely broken 0:10:40.007 --> 0:10:42.447 me and I a will her children no. And oh 0:10:42.487 --> 0:10:45.127 she described when she told her daughter and the sound 0:10:45.207 --> 0:10:47.927 that her daughter made, she just screamed. She was so horrified. 0:10:48.487 --> 0:10:51.447 It's the story of a wolf in sheep's clothing, because 0:10:51.447 --> 0:10:53.847 this isn't you know. We know this and we know 0:10:53.927 --> 0:10:57.127 about the monster myth, but this is a grandfather. This 0:10:57.287 --> 0:11:01.087 is just an ordinary man who was able to get 0:11:01.567 --> 0:11:03.807 on the Internet. And I think that this is the 0:11:03.847 --> 0:11:07.927 other part of the story is that it reveals how 0:11:08.087 --> 0:11:11.287 sinister unchecked online forums are that this was allowed to. 0:11:11.407 --> 0:11:15.327 France has a cultural they're very sexually liberal and they 0:11:15.567 --> 0:11:17.687 don't like to shut down. 0:11:17.967 --> 0:11:20.407 It's not just a French thing, no, you know. One 0:11:20.407 --> 0:11:23.247 of the reasons why the CEO of Telegram has been 0:11:23.407 --> 0:11:26.807 arrested in France very recently is because there are a 0:11:26.807 --> 0:11:30.367 lot of questions about all kinds of platforms that are 0:11:30.407 --> 0:11:35.367 being very strictly defended under free speech legislation, and not 0:11:35.407 --> 0:11:37.967 just legislation, but it's kind of the owners of them 0:11:38.007 --> 0:11:39.727 are saying, but free speech, but free speech, we don't 0:11:39.767 --> 0:11:41.927 have to show you what's on there that people know 0:11:42.007 --> 0:11:46.567 are being used for terrorism activity, drug sexual assaults. 0:11:46.807 --> 0:11:50.527 These are also not just underground websites. We know that 0:11:50.607 --> 0:11:54.567 child sexual abuse material is being shared and connections being 0:11:54.607 --> 0:12:00.207 made on Facebook, on Instagram, on x on all of 0:12:00.247 --> 0:12:03.327 these places and these are crimes. To be clear, this 0:12:03.407 --> 0:12:06.047 is not free speech, and this idea that it's free speech. 0:12:06.967 --> 0:12:10.207 Free speech does not cover crimes. You know you said 0:12:10.247 --> 0:12:14.407 before Hole it makes us feel crazy. Let's just go 0:12:14.447 --> 0:12:17.487 back to Giselle here, because she talked about how she 0:12:17.527 --> 0:12:19.927 would go to her gynecologist she was having. Can you 0:12:19.967 --> 0:12:24.727 imagine the gynecological problems that she was having, including she 0:12:24.807 --> 0:12:28.487 got STDs and her husband said, have you been cheating 0:12:28.527 --> 0:12:28.727 on me? 0:12:29.447 --> 0:12:29.647 Oh? 0:12:30.207 --> 0:12:33.607 And I accused her of that? And her hair was 0:12:33.607 --> 0:12:36.687 falling out, she was losing weight. You can only imagine 0:12:36.767 --> 0:12:39.647 what she's had to process. And when they say that 0:12:39.727 --> 0:12:43.367 it's from ten years ago, that's when he started filming it. 0:12:43.927 --> 0:12:46.327 Who knows how long this has been going on. And 0:12:46.367 --> 0:12:49.407 a few months ago in Samantha Murphy was murdered in Victoria. 0:12:49.407 --> 0:12:52.407 When she went for a run, women were like, we 0:12:52.447 --> 0:12:54.847 can't even go for a run. It's not about walking 0:12:54.887 --> 0:12:57.367 home late at night or what you're wearing. We can't 0:12:57.407 --> 0:12:59.727 even go for a run near our house in the 0:12:59.767 --> 0:13:04.327 early morning. And now it's like we can't even sleep 0:13:04.367 --> 0:13:07.727 in our own bed, inside our own marriage, inside our 0:13:07.767 --> 0:13:09.927 own house and be safe. 0:13:10.087 --> 0:13:12.447 It's that idea this might be a really naive thing 0:13:12.487 --> 0:13:15.767 to say, but the idea that there are enough men 0:13:16.087 --> 0:13:19.327 who want to do that, right, like who want to 0:13:19.367 --> 0:13:23.927 have sex with an unconscious woman and use her like 0:13:24.007 --> 0:13:28.447 a posable doll in this horrific fashion. You know, I'm 0:13:28.447 --> 0:13:30.407 a grown woman is seeing a lot of things. It 0:13:30.607 --> 0:13:33.967 still absolutely shocks me. And I was talking about this 0:13:34.087 --> 0:13:37.447 case to my partner. I know not all men, but 0:13:37.567 --> 0:13:39.607 I was like, what is wrong with you? 0:13:39.727 --> 0:13:39.927 Lot? 0:13:40.087 --> 0:13:41.327 What is wrong with you? 0:13:41.527 --> 0:13:44.247 And I know it's not him, but it's when a 0:13:44.327 --> 0:13:47.167 case like this cuts through and you have to read 0:13:47.207 --> 0:13:49.327 this and I feel like when a woman is as 0:13:49.367 --> 0:13:53.207 brave as Giselle is being in waiving her anonymity, her 0:13:53.287 --> 0:13:55.527 daughter's written a book. They're trying to do a few 0:13:55.527 --> 0:13:57.647 different things. They're trying to change laws around these kind 0:13:57.687 --> 0:14:02.607 of platforms, and they're trying to obviously expose their husband 0:14:02.687 --> 0:14:04.367 slash father as the monster that. 0:14:04.327 --> 0:14:06.927 He is, and also alert women to the fact that 0:14:07.047 --> 0:14:09.727 this is We think about date rape drugs as something 0:14:09.767 --> 0:14:12.167 that happens in bars and nightclass the idea that it 0:14:12.167 --> 0:14:14.407 could happen over a long period of time in your 0:14:14.447 --> 0:14:17.207 own home. She also wants people to know if you're 0:14:17.207 --> 0:14:19.687 having gynecological issues that you don't understand, or if you're 0:14:19.807 --> 0:14:23.167 forgetting things or falling asleep at the table, and his 0:14:23.327 --> 0:14:25.087 kids would say, because he's got two adult sons as 0:14:25.127 --> 0:14:27.567 well who've been with their mother along with her daughter, 0:14:28.287 --> 0:14:30.847 they'd be sitting at the table having dinner and she'd 0:14:30.847 --> 0:14:33.567 fall asleep at the table, and the dad would say, 0:14:34.167 --> 0:14:36.567 sometimes this happens, it's better if I just carry her 0:14:36.607 --> 0:14:39.967 to bed. And they are tortured that the fact this 0:14:40.087 --> 0:14:41.047 was happening under their. 0:14:40.927 --> 0:14:43.007 Nose, the bravery of her, and the fact that this 0:14:43.127 --> 0:14:45.807 has because I did see some posts earlier in the 0:14:45.847 --> 0:14:48.407 week that were like, this should be front page news. 0:14:48.487 --> 0:14:50.767 Everybody should know about this, and it is right. It 0:14:50.847 --> 0:14:53.047 is a story that has broken through and gone around 0:14:53.047 --> 0:14:54.607 the world as it should. I don't think men are 0:14:54.607 --> 0:14:56.767 talking about but they're not exactly This is what I 0:14:56.807 --> 0:14:59.047 mean when I was talking to my partner about it. 0:14:59.647 --> 0:15:01.727 I'm not seeing men talk about it, and I understand 0:15:01.807 --> 0:15:05.527 it's horrific, but I also I don't know, Like I say, 0:15:05.687 --> 0:15:07.847 you just get to a point with these stories where 0:15:08.687 --> 0:15:11.167 it makes you want to I don't. 0:15:11.007 --> 0:15:11.847 Know what the word is. 0:15:11.887 --> 0:15:14.207 I want to build a wall, like I want them away, 0:15:14.607 --> 0:15:15.287 like I just. 0:15:15.567 --> 0:15:17.967 It's the details. It's what you say is that you 0:15:18.007 --> 0:15:21.367 see the headlines, but then there are just these details 0:15:21.407 --> 0:15:23.367 which reveals something. And this is what a lot of 0:15:23.407 --> 0:15:25.807 the analysis in France is saying, is that this is 0:15:26.447 --> 0:15:29.527 about French culture. But although I think it's much broader 0:15:29.527 --> 0:15:32.727 than that, doing some soul searching about how this happened, 0:15:32.767 --> 0:15:37.247 because there are details about her meeting this man who 0:15:37.287 --> 0:15:40.807 was a friend of her husband's and they talked about cycling, 0:15:40.847 --> 0:15:42.207 and then she went to the bakery and said ow 0:15:42.247 --> 0:15:43.727 low to him. He was one of the men. Yeah, 0:15:43.887 --> 0:15:47.447 so a completely ordinary guy. And the difference with the Internet, 0:15:47.487 --> 0:15:50.247 I would say, is that the Internet gives you a 0:15:50.287 --> 0:15:54.207 playbook and you know it's whistleblowing on the fact that 0:15:54.687 --> 0:15:57.927 if this was some kind of sick, sadistic thing you 0:15:57.967 --> 0:16:01.607 wanted to do, well, you know, he learned this from somewhere. 0:16:01.647 --> 0:16:04.407 He also taught it. He's also been charged Dominic Pelico 0:16:04.687 --> 0:16:08.567 with doing this to another man's wife, and this other 0:16:08.607 --> 0:16:12.207 man is one of Gisel Pellico's rapists accused rapists as well, 0:16:12.687 --> 0:16:17.887 and so clearly this is more widespread, this fantasy that 0:16:17.927 --> 0:16:21.847 so many men have that we didn't realize not just 0:16:22.367 --> 0:16:25.007 willing to keep it as fantasy, but that so many 0:16:25.007 --> 0:16:27.687 men were willing to act on it, and had he 0:16:27.767 --> 0:16:30.967 not been stopped, he was still going. He was still 0:16:31.007 --> 0:16:33.447 doing it out loud. As This is a very heavy 0:16:33.447 --> 0:16:35.887 story and we want you to know that there is 0:16:35.927 --> 0:16:38.647 help always available. We have links to resources in the 0:16:38.687 --> 0:16:51.887 show notes hell, because I can do it with the 0:16:52.007 --> 0:16:52.687 book again. 0:16:53.567 --> 0:16:56.967 Taylor Swift has spent the last five days doing very 0:16:57.007 --> 0:17:01.167 public PDA filled patworks with her boyfriend Travis Kelcey, and 0:17:01.247 --> 0:17:04.327 I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the 0:17:04.367 --> 0:17:07.247 fact that last week a rumor flew around the world 0:17:07.247 --> 0:17:10.847 that their relationship is in fact on tractual agreement. But 0:17:10.887 --> 0:17:14.247 I do need to check this with Mia first some context. 0:17:14.967 --> 0:17:17.687 Swift is having a little break from world domination at 0:17:17.687 --> 0:17:21.287 the moment. The Era's taught, which started in March last 0:17:21.367 --> 0:17:25.247 year twenty twenty three, will finish in December this year. 0:17:25.527 --> 0:17:27.167 My god, that woman works hard. 0:17:27.567 --> 0:17:29.927 She's spent the northern summer in Europe and now she's 0:17:29.927 --> 0:17:32.407 on a very well earned break until October when she 0:17:32.447 --> 0:17:34.607 starts her last run of shows in Canada and the US. 0:17:35.007 --> 0:17:37.167 So you wouldn't blame the woman for wanting to have 0:17:37.207 --> 0:17:39.447 a little bit of fun. And these past few days 0:17:39.447 --> 0:17:43.767 she's been watching her boyfriend Travis Kelsey play football in Missouri. 0:17:44.007 --> 0:17:46.127 She went to a wedding in Manhattan, she went to 0:17:46.167 --> 0:17:48.567 the US Open final in Flushing Meadows, and on a 0:17:48.607 --> 0:17:51.767 fancy color coordinated dinner date with Travis, also in New 0:17:51.807 --> 0:17:55.367 York City. Every occasion there have been pictures of arrivals 0:17:55.367 --> 0:17:59.207 and departures, and there have been really cute couple dressing moments, 0:17:59.487 --> 0:18:01.367 and they've been passionate up all. 0:18:01.207 --> 0:18:01.887 Over the place. 0:18:02.487 --> 0:18:04.487 And if you can be sure of anything, it's that 0:18:04.527 --> 0:18:07.087 if Taylor Swift was j LO, my friend Mia would 0:18:07.087 --> 0:18:09.407 have a lot of thoughts about just how public all 0:18:09.447 --> 0:18:12.327 this is. And if you're thinking, but isn't a woman 0:18:12.367 --> 0:18:14.607 allowed to go out with her boyfriend, yes, yes they are, 0:18:14.927 --> 0:18:17.847 you'd be one hundred percent right. But the very visible 0:18:17.887 --> 0:18:21.727 strategy is extra intriguing to people with no life like myself, 0:18:22.007 --> 0:18:25.047 because last week the couple denied the veracity of a 0:18:25.127 --> 0:18:29.207 contract circulating about their relationship on the letterhead of Kelsey's 0:18:29.247 --> 0:18:33.167 PR firm, Full Scope Public Relations. This document appeared to 0:18:33.167 --> 0:18:35.967 provide the wording for an official announcement for the news 0:18:36.007 --> 0:18:37.967 of the couple split, which, to be honest, any of 0:18:38.007 --> 0:18:41.087 us could have written. It was like, after careful consideration, 0:18:41.247 --> 0:18:43.007 please respect their privacy. 0:18:42.607 --> 0:18:43.447 Blah blah blah. 0:18:43.487 --> 0:18:45.847 It was a whole content strategy. Doc I went really 0:18:45.847 --> 0:18:47.727 do keep going back like I think it's real. 0:18:47.807 --> 0:18:50.807 It was like when the announcement would happen after the split, 0:18:50.887 --> 0:18:52.647 and there were rumors that there was a date of 0:18:52.687 --> 0:18:54.727 their split, which was September the twenty eighth, which is 0:18:54.767 --> 0:18:57.167 almost exactly a year since they first went public with 0:18:57.207 --> 0:18:59.727 their dating. Blah blah blah. They have, of course denied 0:18:59.767 --> 0:19:01.767 that it was real. The PR company came out and 0:19:01.767 --> 0:19:05.727 said it is absolutely not real. It's fake news. But Mia, 0:19:06.007 --> 0:19:08.567 what is going on in Travison Taylor world. 0:19:09.527 --> 0:19:11.967 I just want to light a little candle for Tree Payne, 0:19:12.287 --> 0:19:15.327 who is someone I admire a lot. That's Taylor Swift's publicist. 0:19:15.407 --> 0:19:19.207 She's having quite the time at the moment because. 0:19:19.687 --> 0:19:23.247 She would never get her document leaked, never to regard 0:19:23.287 --> 0:19:24.607 that with her life not. 0:19:24.527 --> 0:19:26.327 An arabt by her document. 0:19:26.407 --> 0:19:29.567 I have to work with these amateurs. 0:19:29.767 --> 0:19:32.807 I'm still waiting for the bio pic of Tree Payne's 0:19:32.807 --> 0:19:36.207 life that will definitely win another Oscar for amistone. Now, look, 0:19:36.207 --> 0:19:39.127 there's been a lot going on because also in Taylor's 0:19:39.207 --> 0:19:42.847 orbit so much for her downtime. The squad has been 0:19:42.927 --> 0:19:47.007 conspicuously absent. So when she's been at games in previous 0:19:47.087 --> 0:19:50.167 last season, she was always had her posse with her. 0:19:50.207 --> 0:19:53.447 There was Brittany Mahomes, who is the wife of Travis's 0:19:53.487 --> 0:19:57.487 teammate Patrick Mahomes, and there's been Black Lively. There's been 0:19:57.527 --> 0:19:58.407 a whole crew, but. 0:19:58.767 --> 0:20:00.207 Even a little bit controversy. 0:20:00.487 --> 0:20:04.047 Correct, all of those people were at Taylor's house after 0:20:04.087 --> 0:20:05.927 she finished the tour for a little bit of a holiday, 0:20:06.367 --> 0:20:09.207 but they haven't been by her side because they are 0:20:09.287 --> 0:20:12.327