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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and

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Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on Hello and Welcome

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Speaker 2: to but Are You Happy? The podcast that asks the

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Speaker 2: questions you've always wanted to know from the people who

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Speaker 2: appear to have it all. Laura Byrne is a podcaster,

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Speaker 2: an author and a business owner who entered Australian homes

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Speaker 2: when she won The Bachelor in twenty seventeen, ending up

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Speaker 2: with her now husband Mattie Jay. I wanted to talk

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Speaker 2: to Laura because she's just been through the stage where

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Speaker 2: I'm at now when you desperately want to be in

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Speaker 2: two places at once. You want to be at work

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Speaker 2: and you want to be with your child or kids,

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Speaker 2: and there's a part of you missing wherever you are.

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Speaker 2: She has two little girls, Marley May and Lola, and

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Speaker 2: the balance between being a mother and leaning into your

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Speaker 2: career is impossible.

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Speaker 3: It's probably the biggest pinch point in my relationship with

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Speaker 3: matt because he often will be like, when is enough

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Speaker 3: enough for you? You take on so much and the

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Speaker 3: pressures that that can sometimes put on us or on

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Speaker 3: him because he has to pick up the extra parenting load.

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Speaker 3: He sometimes questions me about it and it's definitely been

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Speaker 3: a big conversation for us over the last six months.

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Speaker 2: We talked about Laura's traumatic first berth.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, I can feel it though, and

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Speaker 3: he was like, no, you can't, and I was like

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Speaker 3: I can and he was like, it's just pressure and

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Speaker 3: I was like, no, I can feel it. And then

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Speaker 3: he started cutting me and that's when he realized actually

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Speaker 3: I could feel it, and the epidural had completely stopped working,

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Speaker 3: and so I went into shock.

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Speaker 2: And the experience of finding love on television, waiting for

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Speaker 2: the moment you can finally celebrate it, and then getting

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Speaker 2: a response.

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Speaker 4: You didn't anticipate.

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Speaker 2: Here's my chat with Laura Burn. Laura Burn, you're a

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Speaker 2: business owner, one of Australia's most successful podcaster, is an author,

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Speaker 2: you have a radio show and you're a mum.

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Speaker 4: To two little girls.

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Speaker 2: You became a household name when you appeared on the

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Speaker 2: Bachelor and met your now husband, Matti J, who I

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Speaker 2: refuse to call anything other than Maddi J. He's a

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Speaker 2: friend of the podcast and people all over the country

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Speaker 2: tune in to hear you speak or see you live

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Speaker 2: on stage with your co host Brittany Hockley for lifeun Cut,

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Speaker 2: but putting everything aside that we can see, what is

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Speaker 2: your life actually like right now? How would you describe it? Oh?

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Speaker 1: It is chaos.

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Speaker 3: So I just walked into the office and I realized

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Speaker 3: I had my shirt on inside out, so that I

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Speaker 3: think that that kind of sums up the person.

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Speaker 1: That I am.

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Speaker 3: I am very lucky that I have Matt, who I think,

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Speaker 3: by default has become the organized one in my life.

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Speaker 3: So he kind of organizes the chaos that happens around him,

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Speaker 3: and then I just happen around him. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if he's thrilled with that, but he's still okay. Life

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Speaker 3: is great. Life is very busy. It is a constant

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Speaker 3: juggling act between the squeaky wheel that gets the oil,

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Speaker 3: whether that's the parenting or whether that is the businesses.

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Speaker 3: And also because my businesses are so different, so having

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Speaker 3: jewelry and then having podcasting like they could not be

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Speaker 3: more worlds apart. So sometimes it's a challenge flicking my

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Speaker 3: brain between the two different or three different jobs that

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Speaker 3: I feel like I have to manage and the things

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Speaker 3: that need me the most. It's often like one thing's excelling,

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Speaker 3: so then you focus on the one that isn't, and

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Speaker 3: then that one falls behind, so then you focus on

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Speaker 3: and it's just this constant juggling act.

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Speaker 2: You just seem to do so many things. It overwhelms

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Speaker 2: me to just look at You've talked about this a

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Speaker 2: bit before, but there's one theory of happiness that says

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Speaker 2: that in order for us to be happy, life should

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Speaker 2: follow like an upwards trajectory, Like basically, if we're getting happier,

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Speaker 2: if things are getting better, that makes us have a

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Speaker 2: happy life. And you've talked before about your childhood and

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Speaker 2: how you had a challenging childhood in some ways. How

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Speaker 2: was your childhood tough? And do you think that having

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Speaker 2: been through some of those experiences makes you grateful and

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Speaker 2: experience greater joy now by comparison.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going to say when you said it

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Speaker 3: makes things better, I was like, what's the definition of better?

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Speaker 1: But then when you have that comparison.

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Speaker 3: So for me growing up, I always want to preface

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Speaker 3: this because I did have a great childhood in a

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Speaker 3: lot of ways. My mum is incredible, my grandparents were

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Speaker 3: absolutely phenomenal. Couldn't have ever asked for better grandparents. They

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Speaker 3: kind of stepped into real parental roles for me. And

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Speaker 3: then my dad, even though he was away a lot,

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Speaker 3: he was in the army, so he was constantly away.

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Speaker 3: When he wasn't away, he was very plugged in as

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Speaker 3: a dad. But just because of the tyranny of distance

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Speaker 3: and his work, I guess he wasn't able to be

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Speaker 3: his hands on as what I think now when he

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Speaker 3: reflects back on our childhood, he wishes he could have been.

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Speaker 3: But my parents got divorced when I was three, and

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Speaker 3: then we moved in and lived with my grandparents, and

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Speaker 3: shortly after that my mom met my stepdad, who was

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Speaker 3: her second husband, And when I was like a teenager,

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Speaker 3: I would reflect on that period of my life, I

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Speaker 3: felt really resentful of my mom for even marrying him,

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Speaker 3: for ever bringing him into our life. But then I

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Speaker 3: think about it and I'm like, Okay, Well, she was

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Speaker 3: in her late twenties with two children, and she lived

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Speaker 3: with her parents, and life was really tough for her,

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Speaker 3: so I think the dating pool probably wasn't particularly kind.

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Speaker 3: And he was this man who showered her with attention,

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Speaker 3: and he was also just a really toxic guy, and

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Speaker 3: so he was able to kind of hide a lot

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Speaker 3: of the behaviors from her. And yeah, so he was

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Speaker 3: actually a heroin addict and really abusive in lots of

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Speaker 3: different ways. So I think they were together for eight

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Speaker 3: years in total, And it wasn't until my mum had

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Speaker 3: my brother that really just the wheels fell off the

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Speaker 3: wagon and he plunged mom into a lot of debts.

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Speaker 3: So they had started a business, a landscaping business together,

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Speaker 3: and he was embezzling money. But because that company was

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Speaker 3: started the two of them, and then once he was

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Speaker 3: out of the picture, my mum was like left with

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Speaker 3: all that debt and so she did such a good

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Speaker 3: job of hiding it from us. But he was just

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Speaker 3: he was just a really scary guy. And I spent

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Speaker 3: a lot of time in my childhood terrified of him.

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Speaker 2: Does it make you look at the childhood you're giving

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Speaker 2: your girls now and the house that you're raising them

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Speaker 2: in and feel a sense of pride and joy that

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Speaker 2: you're able.

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Speaker 1: To do that?

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Speaker 3: It's almost sometimes because Matt also had quite a challenging

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Speaker 3: childhood with his father as well, and they have a

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Speaker 3: fractured relationship now and we often look at each other

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Speaker 3: and we go these kids have.

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Speaker 1: No idea how good they have got it.

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Speaker 3: They got no idea like how do you build like

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Speaker 3: resilient children who were grateful and aren't just like mum,

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Speaker 3: I want another lol.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: So in some respects, you know, I do look back

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Speaker 3: on my childhood and I think, okay, on paper, that

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Speaker 3: kind of start, But I also feel really grateful for

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Speaker 3: the resilience that it had and it created in me,

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Speaker 3: for how close it made me to my mum and

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Speaker 3: also to my grandparents. And I think as well, I

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Speaker 3: had this resentment in my teenage years, which I didn't

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Speaker 3: really realize that that's what it was. But becoming a

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Speaker 3: mum myself really made me soften towards my own mum,

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Speaker 3: and it really gave me the grace of forgiveness. And

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Speaker 3: I've realized just like how challenging parenting is, and how

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Speaker 3: you know, most moms are just doing the absolute best

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Speaker 3: that you possibly can for the children that you have

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Speaker 3: with the tools that you have around you. So there's

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Speaker 3: no part of me that feels any of that resentment anymore.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think when you become a mum, you realize

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Speaker 2: you're still just a person, and you're still just an idiot.

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Speaker 3: Like, what twenty year old that's got two kids, Like,

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Speaker 3: no one knows what they're doing. I don't know what

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Speaker 3: I'm doing, you know, And I'm so fortunate that I

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Speaker 3: have a partner that's plugged in who does fifty percent

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Speaker 3: of the work, Like I could not imagine doing that

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Speaker 3: completely on my own. So yeah, if anything, it's given

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Speaker 3: me so much more appreciation of admiration for my mum

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Speaker 3: and for everything that she was able to do with

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Speaker 3: three kids on her own.

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Speaker 2: You are clearly highly ambitious. Before you became a media personality,

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Speaker 2: you already had your jewelry business, Tony May, what's it

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Speaker 2: like running a business? And I imagine there's parts of

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Speaker 2: the business that you love and are really passionate about,

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Speaker 2: and surely there's parts of the business that you're like,

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Speaker 2: I would happily never do that bloody job again. How

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Speaker 2: do you balance those in terms of leading a happy

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Speaker 2: life and having joy in your life and trying not

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Speaker 2: to let the stuff you hate kind of infiltrate your life.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's a tipping point, right, because when

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Speaker 3: you start a new business yourself, you're everything. You're the

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Speaker 3: tax person, you're the creator, you're the content developer. You're

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Speaker 3: literally any type of work that needs to get done.

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Speaker 3: You are that person when you're a small business, and

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Speaker 3: then as you grow you have to try and find

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Speaker 3: a way to outsource the things that you don't like doing,

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Speaker 3: or even if you do like doing them, if you're

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Speaker 3: not good at them, you have to find someone else

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Speaker 3: who can do them. So for me, I had Tony May.

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Speaker 3: I've had it now for fifteen years, which is crazy.

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Speaker 3: I was in my early twenties and I was working

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Speaker 3: in corporate and I remember having this moment where I

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Speaker 3: saw an article about Samantha Wills. It was just detailing

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Speaker 3: like her rise, her meteoric rise to success and how

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Speaker 3: she'd started Bonde Markets and how she had this jewelry brand,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, I did Bondey Markets.

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Speaker 1: I have a jewelry brand.

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Speaker 3: I could see the path, and I think sometimes you

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Speaker 3: need to visualize those people who have done it before you,

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Speaker 3: and so I was like, oh, this is actually something

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Speaker 3: that could be a career. And going back to my mum.

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Speaker 3: My mum was a jeweler and she had always done

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Speaker 3: it as a hobby, even though it's what she studied

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Speaker 3: at university, and it was her passion, but I think

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Speaker 3: I kind of grew up not thinking that you could

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Speaker 3: make a career out of it. I think it was

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Speaker 3: something it had to be a hobby. So that's why

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Speaker 3: I had these two different things running at the same time.

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Speaker 3: My full time job and then my hobby is jewelry.

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Speaker 3: And it wasn't until things started to scale and started

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Speaker 3: to get a little bit busier that I realized, well,

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Speaker 3: I'm a really creative person and that's the thing that

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Speaker 3: I love to do. I love the making, I love

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Speaker 3: the content. I love the creative aspect of the business.

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Speaker 3: But I am so bad with logistics, and going back

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Speaker 3: to that whole, I am chaos personified and my sister

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Speaker 3: is the complete opposite. So my sister is the organized one.

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Speaker 3: And it was really fortunate. So after The Bachelor finished

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Speaker 3: in twenty seventeen, when I was in the house for

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Speaker 3: that three months, my sister took on board all of

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Speaker 3: the logistics side of the business. So I had one

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Speaker 3: person who was doing the creative and just managing the

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Speaker 3: stores and everything. And my sister was like, don't you worry.

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Speaker 3: I will make sure that things don't hit the fan,

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Speaker 3: like shit is okay while you're gone and I would

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Speaker 3: just manage it and see what happens. And I came

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Speaker 3: back and she was like, cool. So I organized her

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Speaker 3: one hundred thousand unread emails. I've cleared out your inboxes.

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Speaker 3: He's all of like the ordering, and she just had

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Speaker 3: everything systemized and like systemized even a word. It was

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Speaker 3: like there was systems in place. It was amazing. And

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Speaker 3: then she came to me with the proposal and she

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Speaker 3: was like, I want to be your business partner. I

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Speaker 3: want to buy in on the business. And since I

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Speaker 3: did that, since I was able to give up a

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Speaker 3: part of what I had created and give that to her,

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Speaker 3: we have grown like fifty percent year and year and year,

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Speaker 3: and it's been an incredible growth. And that is absolutely

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Speaker 3: because I was able to say, Okay, I'm not good

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Speaker 3: at doing these things and I need help. Her name's Alicia.

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Speaker 3: She's going to be like, stop referring to me as

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Speaker 3: your sister and give me a name.

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Speaker 2: You had Tony May. Then you go on The Bachelor.

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Speaker 2: What's it like to watch yourself on television? And were

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Speaker 2: you received the way you thought you would be?

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Speaker 3: I mean, even doing the show in the first place

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Speaker 3: was weird, right, because part of me, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I suck a dating.

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Speaker 1: I've had a really really bad.

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Speaker 3: Run with men, and I feel like I dated majority

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Speaker 3: of the pool that was available to me at the

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Speaker 3: time in Sydney and had had a really like wow anyway,

247
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Speaker 3: and then I signed up for The Bachelor partly because

248
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Speaker 3: I thought it would be a good way of getting

249
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Speaker 3: back at my ex boyfriend at the time, who I

250
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Speaker 3: still was quite annoyed at. And I think part of

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Speaker 3: me was worried about people thinking that I was just

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Speaker 3: doing it to promote my business, because everyone who did

253
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Speaker 3: it had like literally every person who does that show

254
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,680
Speaker 3: has a secret motivation, right, whether it's to get Instagram followers,

255
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Speaker 3: to grow their business, to hock their fitness program, like

256
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Speaker 3: we've all got something that's up our sleeves. And if

257
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Speaker 3: you say that there was nothing about it other than

258
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Speaker 3: just the experience, like, it's probably not true. Most people

259
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Speaker 3: either wanted to get into media in some ways or

260
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Speaker 3: genuinely wanted the experience and also thought it could be

261
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Speaker 3: a cool way to meet someone.

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Speaker 1: If that was the case.

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Speaker 3: Now, for me, I had this real fear around because

264
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Speaker 3: my name was so intertwined in Tony May. I was

265
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Speaker 3: so worried that I would do something negative that would

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Speaker 3: impact my business. So it wasn't that I thought it

267
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Speaker 3: was going to help grow it. I was like, I'm

268
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Speaker 3: going to fuck this up. I was like, I am

269
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Speaker 3: going to end up doing something that people don't like,

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Speaker 3: and then no one's gonna mind my jewelry, and then

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be destitute and have to go back

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Speaker 3: and work in a nine to five that I hate.

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Speaker 3: So I think I was really cautious, and I think

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Speaker 3: the version of myself that I was on the show,

275
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Speaker 3: which there's no part of me that watches it back

276
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Speaker 3: and I don't enjoy it. It's how I met my husband, Like,

277
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Speaker 3: it was an incredible experience, but I think it was

278
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Speaker 3: very reserved. And I also thought at the time that

279
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Speaker 3: if you showed vulnerability, if you leant into being in love,

280
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Speaker 3: because I was like, you're a loser if you fall

281
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Speaker 3: in love on a reality TV show and then cry

282
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Speaker 3: over some guy. So I was very reserved, and I

283
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Speaker 3: think sometimes when you come across as reserved, people misinterpret

284
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Speaker 3: it as either not caring or that you are a

285
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Speaker 3: bit harder, a bit cold.

286
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Speaker 1: So yeah, for me, I watched it back.

287
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Speaker 3: And sometimes I felt a little bit disassociated for my

288
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Speaker 3: body because I was like, Wow, I was really upset

289
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Speaker 3: in that moment, but watching it back you wouldn't know,

290
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Speaker 3: or watching it back, you wouldn't know how much I

291
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Speaker 3: got to like that two month mark, and I was like, I'm.

292
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Speaker 1: A loser that fell in love on a reality TV show.

293
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Speaker 3: And I was crying at nighttime, but then when the

294
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Speaker 3: cameras came on during the day, I was like, Nah,

295
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Speaker 3: you will not cry for this man. Get your shit together, Laura,

296
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Speaker 3: and like, you will just be strong. And so sometimes

297
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Speaker 3: I think women who come across as strong actually come

298
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Speaker 3: across a little bit unlikable, and reality TV sometimes coming up.

299
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Speaker 2: Laura and I talk about one of the times she

300
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Speaker 2: thought she'd be happy and she wasn't, which was when

301
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Speaker 2: she was watching her finale.

302
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Speaker 4: Episode of the Bachelor.

303
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Speaker 2: She also talks about how this led to her starting

304
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:25,440
Speaker 2: to scrutinize herself and her appearance. You'd say that one

305
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Speaker 2: of the moments the world told you you'd be happy

306
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Speaker 2: and you weren't was watching that finale episode.

307
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

308
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Speaker 3: So watching the finale episode, I mean, it's so long

309
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,160
Speaker 3: ago now, but twenty seventeen, Matt and I are sitting

310
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Speaker 3: in a hotel room together, and it was pretty torturous

311
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Speaker 3: that day, so you wake.

312
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Speaker 1: Up really early.

313
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Speaker 3: I think it was like we got picked up at

314
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Speaker 3: two thirty in the morning or three thirty in the morning.

315
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Speaker 3: It was Elise, who was the girl who also was

316
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Speaker 3: at the finale with me. Alisa and I got picked

317
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,120
Speaker 3: up in a car. We hadn't spoken to each other

318
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Speaker 3: since the show had finished, so that in itself is

319
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,680
Speaker 3: just horrible. We've got to go and do every breakfast

320
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,600
Speaker 3: radio station across the country and we have to sit

321
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,560
Speaker 3: there being like, ooh, who could it be? Which one

322
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,840
Speaker 3: of us? And it's so weird, but it's.

323
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Speaker 1: Also so cruel.

324
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Speaker 3: Like Alise genuinely loved him and like fell in love

325
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Speaker 3: with him in that process, and her feelings were very real,

326
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Speaker 3: and so I'm sitting there having to pretend like I'm

327
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Speaker 3: not happy. She's sitting there pretending like she is happy,

328
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Speaker 3: and it was just such an emotional mind fuck. And

329
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Speaker 3: I remember we had this one interview and it was

330
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Speaker 3: with Osha at the time, he was on a breakfast

331
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Speaker 3: show and it wasn't live, thank god, but halfway through

332
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Speaker 3: Alise just burst out crying. And then it was like

333
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Speaker 3: she didn't want to be in a room with me.

334
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Speaker 1: Why would she?

335
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Speaker 3: Of course she did it, and there's no hard feelings

336
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,560
Speaker 3: about that, but I also didn't want to be in

337
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,120
Speaker 3: that room. I was like, get me out of here,

338
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,200
Speaker 3: what are we doing? So then I got taken to

339
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Speaker 3: a hotel room with Matt and Alisea's like four doors

340
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,640
Speaker 3: down from us. So we're in a hotel room watching

341
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,920
Speaker 3: the final episode, knowing that a Lisea's just down the

342
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,600
Speaker 3: hallway with her friends, and the final episode plays out,

343
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,160
Speaker 3: and we were sitting there thinking that that was like

344
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,520
Speaker 3: a moment where we were finally after because it was

345
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,320
Speaker 3: filmed and finished filming in May, and that was in September,

346
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,800
Speaker 3: that the last episode, so we'd been like doing long distance.

347
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 3: It had to be a big secret. And then we

348
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,640
Speaker 3: were sitting there in bed and I remember the show

349
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,400
Speaker 3: finishing and opening up social media and the absolute onslaught

350
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,920
Speaker 3: of people hating us, and we just looked at each

351
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,920
Speaker 3: other and were like, Okay, good night, Like I guess

352
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:33,240
Speaker 3: that's like let's just worry about this tomorrow. And it

353
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,800
Speaker 3: was like quite unaffectionate because both of us felt so anticlimactic,

354
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,120
Speaker 3: and in that moment, I thought, this relationship is never

355
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,560
Speaker 3: gonna last, Like, there is no way in hell that

356
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,480
Speaker 3: he's going to stay with me if Australia doesn't want

357
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,960
Speaker 3: him to be with me. And the stuff that we

358
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,400
Speaker 3: were receiving across social media was so cruel. It was

359
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,240
Speaker 3: such mean, Like a lot of it's like around the

360
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,840
Speaker 3: way you look, like you're not attractive enough, or that

361
00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,240
Speaker 3: he should have chosen the other girls, or and I

362
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,480
Speaker 3: was saying to you clear earlier. It's really funny how

363
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,999
Speaker 3: much the public don't remember, because at the time, I

364
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,760
Speaker 3: would have said that people were like less than fifty fifty.

365
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,639
Speaker 3: I would have said it would probably have been in

366
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,760
Speaker 3: that evening, like sixty forty sixty percent of people didn't

367
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,000
Speaker 3: want us to be together and forty percent were supportive.

368
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,800
Speaker 3: But now if you asked anyone, every article that's written,

369
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,760
Speaker 3: any person would go, oh my god, it was so

370
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:21,760
Speaker 3: you from the start.

371
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,959
Speaker 1: We always knew when we love you together, But it

372
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,439
Speaker 1: was not like that when the show finished. Yeah, it was.

373
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,719
Speaker 3: It was a really sad period and it really rocked

374
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,400
Speaker 3: my self confidence and also the way that I felt

375
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,840
Speaker 3: about the way I look. Yeah, it really made me

376
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:37,919
Speaker 3: hate the way I look.

377
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,800
Speaker 2: Because I think about that a lot. Whenever I have

378
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,760
Speaker 2: done to a far, far, far smaller degree, anything that's

379
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,960
Speaker 2: like in front of a camera or a little photo

380
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,720
Speaker 2: shoot or whatever, it seems like this really exciting moment,

381
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:52,880
Speaker 2: and then you see the photo on your.

382
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:54,680
Speaker 1: Own confront you, Oh my god, is that what I

383
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:56,960
Speaker 1: looked on? Is that what I sound like? Okay? Like

384
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 1: that half of my face and not that half my face? Yeah.

385
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,840
Speaker 3: You scrutinize yourself, and you can be really cruel to yourself,

386
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,639
Speaker 3: especially when people start pointing out things about you that

387
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,000
Speaker 3: you never realized you didn't like, and then you start

388
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,080
Speaker 3: hating them yourself. So for me on it was so

389
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,359
Speaker 3: many things. It was me having thin lips, it was

390
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,040
Speaker 3: me having bad skin, and I got really fixated on it.

391
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,160
Speaker 3: And afterwards, like I'd never had botox before The Bachelor,

392
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,920
Speaker 3: I'd never gone and gotten filler. Afterwards, I went through

393
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,400
Speaker 3: this period where I was like obsessively looking up things

394
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,400
Speaker 3: I could do to fix my face, which sounds crazy now.

395
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:31,680
Speaker 3: I remember this one thing I booked in and this

396
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,879
Speaker 3: is back in twenty eighteen. I got filler in my cheeks,

397
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,639
Speaker 3: I got botox in my jaw, and I got filler

398
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,160
Speaker 3: in my lips all of that in the space of

399
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,680
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks, and it was awful, Like.

400
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:42,600
Speaker 1: It looked terrible on me.

401
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,399
Speaker 3: I looked horrible, and I knew I looked horrible, and

402
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,760
Speaker 3: even bat was like, please don't, please, don't do that again.

403
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,800
Speaker 2: It's interesting though, that as a woman, you're kind of

404
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 2: damned if you do damned if you don't like people.

405
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,160
Speaker 2: I think people look at women who have had things

406
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,800
Speaker 2: done and they're like, well, you know, why did you

407
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:01,200
Speaker 2: do anything, And it's like, because.

408
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,680
Speaker 4: The world told me I was ugly since.

409
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,440
Speaker 3: I was born, literally, But also it's funny on the

410
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,320
Speaker 3: flip side, like I've not had anything since that day,

411
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 3: and I'll see articles about me on daily mail and

412
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,640
Speaker 3: I have wrinkles. Hello, everyone, wrinkles under my eyes. I'm

413
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,679
Speaker 3: okay with it. It's the aftermath of an expressive face.

414
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,360
Speaker 3: But I see a photo of me that we put

415
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:21,760
Speaker 3: on daily Mail and the comments would be like, oh

416
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 3: my god, look what she's done to under her eyes

417
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 3: with all that filler, And I'm like, bitch, these are wrinkles. Yeah,

418
00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:28,120
Speaker 3: this is what a forty year old woman looks like,

419
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 3: Like this is normal.

420
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,359
Speaker 1: I'm thirty eight, but you know, almost forty.

421
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,280
Speaker 3: But then on the flip side, because so much of

422
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,119
Speaker 3: my insecurities were coming from people during the conclusion that

423
00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:40,639
Speaker 3: Matt and I shouldn't be together, and it was often

424
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 3: that I was like, oh, cute mum and sun vibes,

425
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:44,720
Speaker 3: that's what I would get. So I felt like I

426
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 3: looked older in comparison to Matt, which, you know, whatever,

427
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,040
Speaker 3: I'm two years older than him. I can look older

428
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,639
Speaker 3: than him. But that's what made me insecure. So it

429
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 3: made me not just insecure about the way I looked,

430
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 3: but insecured about the relationship, like why would he choose me?

431
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 3: When he is so handsome and he could have anyone?

432
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,400
Speaker 3: Why did he pick me? And so then I kept thinking,

433
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,480
Speaker 3: or maybe he's going to change his mind and I'm

434
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 3: not the person that he's gonna want to be with.

435
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,720
Speaker 3: So then I got insecure about the relationship a little bit.

436
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,879
Speaker 3: But he he was always so real, assuring of me,

437
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 3: and it was his like his commitment to our relationship,

438
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,960
Speaker 3: his always showing up, his consistency, not just commitment, but

439
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 3: the consistency of a commitment. He was the same person

440
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,399
Speaker 3: every day, unphased by it. And maybe he was phased

441
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 3: in some ways, but he never made me aware of it.

442
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 3: That is what was the reassuring thing that made me

443
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,400
Speaker 3: feel okay with myself again.

444
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 2: After Bachelor And you're in this new relationship and you

445
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 2: hadn't been together that long before you got pregnant.

446
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 3: No, are the alay together like maybe a year or

447
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 3: just under a year? It was pretty quick, yeah, speedy.

448
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 2: And you now have your two little girls. You wrote

449
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 2: a while ago about your birth with Marley may being traumatic.

450
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,880
Speaker 4: Do you still think of it as traumatic?

451
00:20:59,200 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 1: Yeah?

452
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 3: I do, but I also it's a funny one because

453
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,479
Speaker 3: I don't like to talk about it as though it

454
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 3: was traumatic because I hate the fear that that creates

455
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 3: for other women who are about to have baby. So

456
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,400
Speaker 3: I've always been very careful how I speak about it.

457
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,880
Speaker 3: But what happened to me was I felt as though

458
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 3: I wasn't being believed by my obstetricians. So I had

459
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 3: had an epidural and.

460
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 1: It was very effective. It was brilliant. I was sitting in.

461
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 3: Bed doing work on my laptop and then the pushing

462
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 3: started and the epidural stopped working.

463
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 1: Vibes hard, relate, hard, relate.

464
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 2: Okay, wow, it's ft, And they kept being like it's.

465
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 4: Just pressure, and I was like pressure.

466
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, so I had a block.

467
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 3: I hadn't been topping it up, I think, because the

468
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,199
Speaker 3: thing is it works so well for me.

469
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,119
Speaker 2: You're so in that moment, there's a lot going on,

470
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 2: and they're like, you haven't topped it up, and You're like,

471
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 2: I was distracted by the fact that I'm giving birth.

472
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 4: Can you top it up for me? Totally?

473
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:55,919
Speaker 3: Well, I don't even think anyone told me that you

474
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,879
Speaker 3: had to top it up. So just to kind of

475
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 3: like my birth with Marley in a nutshell, I didn't

476
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 3: really have a birth plan and I just kind of

477
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 3: was like, whatever happens happens, and I had to be induced.

478
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 3: But she was also the wrong way round. So posterior,

479
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 3: which is a more painful pregnancy as it is.

480
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 1: Yes, like a pain in your butt. It's like, is

481
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: it just in your butt? I thought it was like

482
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 1: a full body pain.

483
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 2: I kept being like, it feels like somebody has a

484
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 2: fire poker in my butt, in your ass, yes, the

485
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 2: posterior not okay.

486
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 3: Yes, it's like when your spine. Their spine is against

487
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 3: your spine basically, And so I started having contractions because

488
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 3: it was induced, and it was all very quick, and

489
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 3: the pain was so so strong for me that I

490
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 3: was vomiting every time I had contractions. So I went

491
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 3: to have an epidural, which at the time I was like,

492
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 3: I'm not going to do drugs, and then twenty minutes

493
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 3: in I was like, give me all of them.

494
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: But anyway, so the drugs.

495
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 3: Had worn off, and there was also a little bit

496
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 3: of panic in the room because Molly had gotten stuck.

497
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 3: She wasn't coming down the birth canal fast enough and

498
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 3: I was dilated. I was pushing, and she just was

499
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 3: not moving anymore. So they were tossing up whether to

500
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 3: get me into have a cesarean or whether they were

501
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 3: just going to try and four steps her out. So

502
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 3: she was stuck. You could tell, you know, and you

503
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,959
Speaker 3: can tell that there's panic happening around you, but everyone's

504
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 3: trying to pretend that they're not panic.

505
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 4: There's suddenly a lot of people in the room.

506
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

507
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 3: Well, they also had all these students in the room,

508
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 3: so they'd come earlier and asked if I was okay

509
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 3: with some medical students coming in. There was about twenty

510
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 3: people in this room, and I just remember having this

511
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 3: out of body experience and I.

512
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 1: Was like, what is this? Like, this is crazy.

513
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 3: Anyway, I didn't even care anymore, but the obstetrician was like, oh,

514
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 3: we have to give you an a pisiotomy. We're going

515
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 3: to try and cut you and to get her out

516
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 3: with four steps. And I was like, I can feel

517
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 3: it though, and he was like, no, you can't, and

518
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 3: I was like I can and he was like it's

519
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 3: just pressure and I was like, no, I can feel it.

520
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 3: And then he started cutting me and that's when he

521
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 3: realized actually I could feel it, and the epidural had

522
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 3: completely stopped working, and so I went into shock because

523
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 3: I had been cut with a scalvel. It was reflecting

524
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 3: back really messed up. And at the time, the nurses

525
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 3: kept saying, oh, you've had a traumatic birth, and I

526
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 3: was like, was that what that was? But I had

527
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 3: nothing to compare it to. And so now that I've

528
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 3: had a second baby and that was really easy, it

529
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 3: makes me go, oh, okay, that really wasn't supposed to

530
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 3: go the way that it went. But yeah, I think

531
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,959
Speaker 3: after she came out and I was all stitched up

532
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 3: and the stress and panic had kind of gone away,

533
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 3: I just was overcome with this, like, Okay, this is

534
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 3: still pretty amazing.

535
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 2: It is interesting that you say that because I have

536
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 2: the same thing where you don't want to scare other women.

537
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 2: But there's a weirdly positive side to it, where it's

538
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 2: like you can have a traumatic birth and be okay

539
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: exactly and actually be okay.

540
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 3: That is exactly it, right, because I think a lot

541
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 3: of us have been told that if you have a

542
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 3: traumatic birth, you're never going to get over. It's going

543
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 3: to affect you for forever and you're going to be

544
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 3: like psychologically changed by it. I think, yes, it was traumatic,

545
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 3: but it wasn't traumatizing. I am completely fine, and I

546
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 3: was completely fine a week later. I wasn't thinking about

547
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 3: not being believed. And you know, I really feel for

548
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 3: some women who do go through that experience and have

549
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 3: a different outcome, because that's very very real, But that

550
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 3: wasn't my experience.

551
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's good for people to know, like, because

552
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: I think after that, I don't know if you had

553
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 2: the same thing, but it's sort of like, oh, am

554
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 2: I going to be traumatized? Am I going to be

555
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: thinking about this in year? And it's good to know

556
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 2: how quickly our brains can make sense.

557
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 3: Of it, And yeah, I mean, but also I think

558
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 3: it's important to say. As I mentioned two kids now,

559
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 3: and the second one was a dream. I remember going

560
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 3: into labor and the obstecution was like, cool, You're just

561
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 3: going to cough her out, And.

562
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 1: I was like, what does that say about the damage?

563
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: The first one about what you like? Just cough, don't

564
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: even push, just cough, And I was like, okay. I

565
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: coughed out Lola like literally.

566
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 2: With Maley May and Lola, they were quite different babies. Yeah,

567
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: And the period once Lola was born, your partner was

568
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 2: doing Dancing with the Stars and you were on your own.

569
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: Do you think it made it harder that you had

570
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: this happier experience to compare it to.

571
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 3: I remember even before Matt was doing Dancing with the Stars,

572
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 3: I just had Lola. She was two days old and

573
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: we were home. It was our first night home and

574
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 3: Matt was in the kitchen with Marley and I was

575
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 3: sitting on the side of the bed and you know,

576
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 3: you like massive pads and pillow booms her everything. You're

577
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 3: just like, oh, I haven't slept in two days. The

578
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 3: emotions really hit you. And she was in the little

579
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 3: bassinet next to the bed, and I remember sitting there

580
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 3: looking at her, and I was like, we have ruined

581
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 3: our lives?

582
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: What did we do? I regret everything.

583
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 3: I was so sad, and I was like, this was

584
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 3: a terrible decision, which it wasn't, of course, you know,

585
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 3: and I feel like every parent always has to preface like,

586
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 3: Laula is incredible.

587
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:37,719
Speaker 1: I love being a mum's two girls.

588
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 3: But in that moment, I had a real moment of like, wow,

589
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 3: is this regret?

590
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 4: I reckon?

591
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: Hormones do that?

592
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 2: I think that those few days afterwards, when your hormones

593
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 2: are crazy, I reckon.

594
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 4: So many women have that.

595
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: You're just scared to say it because you're like, you're

596
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 2: never meant to say this, But I think it's how

597
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 2: a lot of people feel.

598
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: Well, life was so easy.

599
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 3: We had everything dial Like Maley was like she was

600
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 3: nineteen months, I think twenty months. She was really young still,

601
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 3: but she was great. She was walking, she was talking,

602
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 3: she was communicating. We could easily get out of the house,

603
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 3: like life was just easy. And then we would throw

604
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 3: into the second child. And if you've listened to the

605
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 3: episode of that I had you with Maddie J, he

606
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 3: sort of detailed that Lola was a really different child,

607
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 3: and at the time we didn't realize, but she had

608
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 3: some neurological things that she was dealing with, and so

609
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 3: I think that that also added to the fact that

610
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 3: she just didn't sleep, cried continuously, and yeah, we went

611
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 3: from having a unicorn baby to having the most challenging

612
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 3: version of a newborn and so it was a really full, long.

613
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 2: Time after the break. Laura gets a bit emotional when

614
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 2: discussing why one of her biggest fears is that she

615
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: doesn't spend enough time with her kids and that feeling

616
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: that's very familiar to parents of mum guilt. On r

617
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: UOKDA last year, radio duo Will and Woody did this

618
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 2: segment where they asked radio and TV and podcast host

619
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 2: to say to someone else some of the cruel things

620
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 2: that they say to themselves.

621
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: I remember I cried, but I can't remember what I said. Oh,

622
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: don't bring it back up.

623
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 2: No, yours is always stuck with me because you said

624
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 2: you're a bad mum because you don't have enough time

625
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 2: for your kids.

626
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm gonna cry and you were crying.

627
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: Can you talk me through that internal dialogue and is

628
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 2: it something you've been able to deal with?

629
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 3: Oh?

630
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: Will cry again. It's not true, you know. That's the thing.

631
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 3: The thing is is I have so much time for

632
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 3: my kids. I pick my kids up from daycare every

633
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 3: day at four thirty. I sacrifice me time to make

634
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 3: sure that they have me time. So I work until

635
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 3: really late in the evenings. I get up really early

636
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 3: and do work when I can before they wake up.

637
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 3: If that's you know, something that I have to do.

638
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 3: And usually Matt and I both work quite late into

639
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 3: the evenings. And that is all because when they finish daycare,

640
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 3: I am there. I pick them up like as I should,

641
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 3: like I'm their mum. I'm not asking for an award

642
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,959
Speaker 3: for this, That's not what I'm saying. But I just

643
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 3: want to make sure that I don't have children that

644
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: look back on their life and go, oh, yeah, we

645
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 3: were really privileged, like we had all the stuff, Like

646
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 3: mum worked hard and we earned money, but like I did,

647
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 3: never saw my mum. And I think about my relationship

648
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 3: with my dad. You know, my dad was away for

649
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 3: work so much, like physically away. He was in Somalia,

650
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 3: like he was away, but it damaged our relationship. It

651
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 3: really put a halt to the connection that we could

652
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 3: have and both Matt and I really have aspirations for

653
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 3: the type of parents that we want to be, so

654
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 3: we will never ever sacrifice that. But at the same time,

655
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 3: absolutely there's times when, especially when Matt pulls me up

656
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 3: and says, you sure you want to say yes to that,

657
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 3: because you know what that means. If you say yes

658
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 3: to that, then this is going to have the flow

659
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 3: on of X Y Z on our family. And I

660
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 3: remember when we had that discussion with Will and Woody

661
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 3: and work had been really busy, not because I had

662
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 3: control over it, but factors had meant that my work

663
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 3: had increased. And Yeah, I just had a moment where

664
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 3: I was like, you give so much of yourself to

665
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 3: work sometimes that you need to be more for your

666
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 3: family and whether it's not just for the kids, it's

667
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 3: also for Matt though as well.

668
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, having a child is the first time I've been

669
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 2: aware that time is finite in a weird way, like

670
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: I don't think I was aware of that before, and

671
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: now I'm like everything that I do, yeah, I am

672
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 2: aware that that is time that I'm not with my child,

673
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 2: and I don't It might be different in your family,

674
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 2: but I feel like men don't necessarily have the same mindset.

675
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, but also men don't have the same pressure, like

676
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 3: what dads are at work, being like I feel guilty

677
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 3: being at work totally. I mean, I understand why I'm

678
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 3: not saying that. I want to be a person that

679
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 3: doesn't feel that guilt. I want to feel that because

680
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 3: I want to spend time with my children. You know,

681
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 3: I don't go to work and then be like kids,

682
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 3: what up? Like, I don't need to worry about you.

683
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 3: I think about them all the time. They're the most

684
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 3: important thing to me. But also I am somebody who

685
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 3: gets a lot of sense of my worth from being

686
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 3: at work and from achieving my goals in life as well.

687
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 3: And I've always had the goals of I don't even

688
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 3: know if I fully realize what they are, but I've

689
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 3: always had big aspirations for work, and I never ever

690
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 3: had the aspiration for being a mum until I became

691
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 3: a mum. So for me, that's a whole new identity

692
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 3: that once I discovered it, I was.

693
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: Like, this is the best job ever.

694
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 3: But I never had those typical feelings of like I

695
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 3: was built to be a mum. I simply didn't. And

696
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 3: also I think I look at my own mom, like

697
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 3: I don't ever remember my mom sitting down and eating

698
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 3: dinner with us as a kid. She never stopped. My

699
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: mom worked full time, she made leotards, she was always

700
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 3: cutting my sister to gymnastics. She had seventeen other small

701
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 3: businesses on the side. And so I think that it's

702
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 3: been her drive and seeing her always kind of moving

703
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 3: forward in life that made me want to do the same.

704
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 3: In some ways, that's been my blueprinter of what parenting is.

705
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

706
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's amazing for daughters to see.

707
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 2: I've always thought that, Yeah, and I think that about

708
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 2: my own mum. You have one of the most listened

709
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: to podcasts in the country, and because of that, you're

710
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 2: obviously going to get commentary and feedback and criticism based

711
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: on what you say. And there's times where life uncut

712
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 2: and you, for whatever reason, have been called out online.

713
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: I want to talk.

714
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: About how that feels, because I don't know if people

715
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 2: can often understand. And it's the same with The Bachelor

716
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 2: actually that there's a bit of dehumanization that goes on.

717
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 2: You kind of see somebody and you think I'll put

718
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: stuff on them because I can't imagine that they have

719
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 2: their own inner world and their own stuff that they're

720
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: dealing with. How has that felt when it's particularly intense.

721
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: It feels awful.

722
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 3: It's a horrible feeling being at the bottom of a

723
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 3: pile when there's a pileon But for multiple reasons though,

724
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 3: and not every situation is cut the same. I think

725
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 3: sometimes when you feel as though you've been misrepresented or misunderstood,

726
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 3: that's really challenging because the first thing you want.

727
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: To do is you want to explain yourself.

728
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 3: You want to be like, no, I'm not the person

729
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 3: you're making me out to be, or the facts aren't right,

730
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 3: or you told this part of the story but not

731
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 3: this part of the story, which actually means that the

732
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 3: outcome is different, So you kind of want to I

733
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 3: guess there's this feeling of like, I want to make

734
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 3: everyone know that I'm not the person that I'm being

735
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 3: made out to be, but I've learnt there's no point

736
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 3: in doing that because people, when they're angry online, there's

737
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 3: nothing that you can say that will ever be enough.

738
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, well, because you did this one thing

739
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 3: that I don't like, even if it was true or

740
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 3: isn't true, that is proof that you're a bad person,

741
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 3: even though you've shown me it's like, ah see, you

742
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 3: are the person I tell you. But I think at

743
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 3: the very start it absolutely broke me. I was so humiliated,

744
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 3: and I thought, oh my god, maybe everyone thinks that

745
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 3: I'm this horrible person, Like maybe everyone thinks these things

746
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 3: of me. And then you realize ninety nine percent of

747
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 3: normal people are not on the Internet yelling at each

748
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 3: other for starters. The other end of that, as well,

749
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 3: is is that it's just kind of knowing how to

750
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 3: manage those situations. And I think it makes you tough

751
00:34:10,319 --> 00:34:12,479
Speaker 3: and it makes you resilient, and you have to really

752
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 3: kind of step back sometimes and go, Okay, was I

753
00:34:15,839 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 3: in the wrong? Did I do something that is warranting

754
00:34:19,279 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 3: an apology? Have I been misrepresented? Does someone have a

755
00:34:22,799 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 3: hidden agenda? And then once you've answered all those questions

756
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 3: for yourself, it kind of outlines how you can progress forward,

757
00:34:28,879 --> 00:34:30,959
Speaker 3: I guess, and like, what's the best path for you

758
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 3: to deal with it? And often I think it's just

759
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 3: logging off the Internet for a little while and then

760
00:34:35,359 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 3: you know, coming back on and just resuming business as normal.

761
00:34:38,439 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I think when that sort of stuff

762
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 2: does happen, it's interesting. I've watched a few instances recently

763
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,959
Speaker 2: where people are getting called out and it's sort of

764
00:34:48,319 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 2: you need to apologize, you need to say this, you

765
00:34:49,879 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 2: need to say that, and you might not know, like

766
00:34:52,799 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: the reason somebody isn't putting anything else out there is

767
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 2: because they.

768
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 4: Know putting something else out there is just going to

769
00:34:58,239 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 4: fuel it.

770
00:34:58,839 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 3: I remember many many moons ago, and I don't actually

771
00:35:01,799 --> 00:35:04,639
Speaker 3: remember the exact instance of what it was. Because when

772
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,639
Speaker 3: you are a podcast and you have opinions, there will

773
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 3: be times where your opinions don't align with people. So

774
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,439
Speaker 3: a little piece of information will be taken out of context,

775
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 3: and or you'll listen to a ten second grab of

776
00:35:15,839 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 3: something and that gives you an impression, but when you

777
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 3: put it in context of an hour episode, it's a

778
00:35:19,799 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 3: very different conversation. Those things are all very true, but

779
00:35:22,919 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 3: when the mob comes, the mob feels fierce, right, But

780
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 3: the mob also moves on. It really does, and sometimes

781
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,479
Speaker 3: you just have to not give it fuel. Because the

782
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,639
Speaker 3: way that the media system works is that one person

783
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 3: will write an article, then you say something else, so

784
00:35:37,279 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 3: then they write an article of the thing that you said,

785
00:35:39,359 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 3: and then they say and so then you're just feeding

786
00:35:41,319 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 3: the beast, right, So that's often a reason why people

787
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 3: don't say anything or respond. Also, sometimes it's because they

788
00:35:48,279 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 3: can't because they work for companies who don't allow them to.

789
00:35:50,879 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 3: So there's many, many reasons why people don't respond and

790
00:35:53,919 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 3: act in a way that we might expect them to.

791
00:35:56,399 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 3: And of all the things that you could be controversial about,

792
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,959
Speaker 3: we talk about sex and relationships. We're not a controversial podcast,

793
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 3: so it's very infrequent. But also I think it's interesting

794
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 3: that it happens mostly to women in Australia, And I

795
00:36:08,919 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 3: would beg you to question what was the last big

796
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 3: outrage that you witnessed happen on social media? And I

797
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,479
Speaker 3: would say that ninety nine point nine percent of the

798
00:36:16,479 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 3: time it surrounds women, and when it doesn't surround women,

799
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 3: it surrounds extremely problematic men. Men only get taken down

800
00:36:23,759 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 3: in the same way that women do if their views

801
00:36:25,879 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 3: are absolutely fucking vile, whereas like a really normal woman

802
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,039
Speaker 3: will get taken down for saying something that's just like

803
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,399
Speaker 3: a little bit left of center and that's kind of

804
00:36:35,439 --> 00:36:35,919
Speaker 3: gross to me.

805
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: Exactly have you ever, on your podcast or in media

806
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 2: shared something personal that you regret?

807
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:50,439
Speaker 3: I had an experience where what I have shared wasn't

808
00:36:50,479 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 3: well received, and that was more so from family. So

809
00:36:53,439 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 3: when we wrote our book, We Love Love, I have

810
00:36:55,799 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 3: a very religious auntie who we're very close and she's

811
00:36:59,399 --> 00:37:02,519
Speaker 3: been close to us for our whole lives. And her

812
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 3: response to that book and also because I spoke about

813
00:37:05,439 --> 00:37:09,559
Speaker 3: abortion in there, I swaw, I wrote, I wrote fucking there.

814
00:37:09,879 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 3: She was very unimpressed. And I think that for me,

815
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 3: I had a moment where I was like, oh, maybe

816
00:37:17,439 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 3: some of the people who were closest to me don't.

817
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: Actually know who I really am in that way.

818
00:37:22,839 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 3: And I think that me talking about abortion was something

819
00:37:25,919 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 3: that was quite triggering for people in my immediate network,

820
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 3: and especially even my mom. I sat my mom down

821
00:37:30,839 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 3: and I spoke to her about that what happened and

822
00:37:33,879 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 3: why I made that choice and everything, and she never knew,

823
00:37:36,359 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 3: so I kind of felt as though I wanted to

824
00:37:38,399 --> 00:37:40,199
Speaker 3: tell her that before she read it in a book

825
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,919
Speaker 3: that's still sitting by her bed. And Yeah, that was

826
00:37:42,919 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 3: probably an interesting period. Was almost like explaining to people

827
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,039
Speaker 3: the choices and the reasons why I felt like I

828
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 3: wanted to talk about the things that I that I

829
00:37:49,919 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 3: have experienced.

830
00:37:50,839 --> 00:37:53,119
Speaker 2: It's weird how it can sometimes be easier to share

831
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: things on a mass scale, but really the people intimately

832
00:37:56,759 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 2: in your life.

833
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 3: Even recently, we talked about it on the podcast last week.

834
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,919
Speaker 3: My stepdad he's in palliative care for prostate cancer and

835
00:38:04,839 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 3: it's been a really hard time for my family, and

836
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,479
Speaker 3: I talked about it, but I also am super just

837
00:38:10,479 --> 00:38:13,039
Speaker 3: that it's not my story to share. It's happening within

838
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 3: my family, but it's not happening to me, even though

839
00:38:15,919 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 3: I love him dearly. But he has two biological children,

840
00:38:18,759 --> 00:38:20,959
Speaker 3: and so we spoke about it on the podcast as

841
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,679
Speaker 3: like a real awareness piece to try and get us

842
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 3: as women to speak to our husbands and our dads

843
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,519
Speaker 3: around prostate cancer, speak to them and ask them. I mean,

844
00:38:30,759 --> 00:38:32,959
Speaker 3: what thirty year old has ever sat their dad down

845
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,999
Speaker 3: and said, Hey, dad, have you had your prostate checked?

846
00:38:35,279 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: Because it's a weird. It's a weird chat.

847
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 3: But that was the conversation we had, and then I

848
00:38:39,279 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 3: had to think about it afterwards, and I was like, Oh,

849
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 3: his kid's going to be okay with me talking about that.

850
00:38:43,879 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 3: So sometimes it's being aware of the other people who

851
00:38:46,919 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 3: are involved in the stories that we share that we

852
00:38:49,279 --> 00:38:50,439
Speaker 3: have to take into consideration.

853
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, your wedding day looked so beautiful, and on that

854
00:38:55,439 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: day there were some paps who came in and filmed

855
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 2: some of your vowels.

856
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and in the bushes, Yeah, literally in the bushes.

857
00:39:03,319 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 4: And we were just still like photos, so fucking world.

858
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we even hired a security guard.

859
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 3: So we got we got married at QS in Mollymook

860
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 3: is beautiful and yeah, we didn't know until directly after

861
00:39:14,879 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 3: the vows and then we saw it in daily mail.

862
00:39:17,359 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 3: We saw that the vows had been published, and like, yeah,

863
00:39:20,479 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 3: it's just funny but also very invasive.

864
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:24,079
Speaker 1: Wasn't funny at the time?

865
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,559
Speaker 2: Is now when that happens on Obviously, your wedding day

866
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 2: is kind of one of those days. It's meant to

867
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 2: be the greatest day of your life and you meant

868
00:39:31,359 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 2: to be euphoric the whole time. Was there part of

869
00:39:34,879 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 2: you that was angry that that had stolen that moment?

870
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 3: I think there was a part of me that almost

871
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 3: expected that it was going to happen. And that's because

872
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 3: Anna Heinrich had gotten married i think the year prior,

873
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 3: overseas in Italy, and they had gone to Italy to

874
00:39:51,359 --> 00:39:53,959
Speaker 3: get photos of her so like the fact that we

875
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,039
Speaker 3: got married in Mollymook, like they're going to travel three

876
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 3: hours if they're going to travel to another country. And

877
00:39:58,839 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 3: also like the whole thing was not just photograph but

878
00:40:01,839 --> 00:40:04,919
Speaker 3: it was video recorded, they had audio, and then to

879
00:40:04,959 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 3: be told that that was all for people to think

880
00:40:06,759 --> 00:40:08,559
Speaker 3: that that's something that we would set up, I was like,

881
00:40:08,799 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 3: so humiliating. Guys w doing fine for money. I don't

882
00:40:11,399 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 3: need someone to take photos of my wedding. Plus also

883
00:40:13,279 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 3: I want to post those photos on my social media first.

884
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,879
Speaker 3: That's better for me and for my engagement than having

885
00:40:17,879 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 3: some dude doing it for the Daily Mail and anyway.

886
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like we've got it.

887
00:40:21,759 --> 00:40:22,479
Speaker 1: Was infuriating.

888
00:40:22,919 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think that's probably the thing I struggle

889
00:40:24,959 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 3: with the most, and that's even going back to outreach culture.

890
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 3: It's being misrepresented. It's having things written about you that

891
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:34,919
Speaker 3: aren't true. That can be really really infuriating, but you

892
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 3: just have to get over it and get on with it,

893
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,559
Speaker 3: because what are you going to do? Fight everyone, try

894
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 3: and prove that you're not the person that they're saying

895
00:40:40,279 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 3: you are. And it takes a really tough skin to

896
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,679
Speaker 3: get to a point where you're like, that's a really

897
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 3: stupid headline.

898
00:40:46,439 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: I don't feed my child dog food, you know, But

899
00:40:50,279 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: they just write what they write.

900
00:40:51,439 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, Laura, you have a beautiful family, you have a

901
00:40:55,439 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 2: glamorous and exciting career. You fell in love in front

902
00:40:58,399 --> 00:41:00,679
Speaker 2: of all of us, and you have people all over

903
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 2: the country who listen to your opinions and interviews and

904
00:41:03,839 --> 00:41:05,919
Speaker 2: stories and read your words.

905
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 4: But are you happy?

906
00:41:07,919 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: Yes, I am happy.

907
00:41:10,359 --> 00:41:13,559
Speaker 3: I feel incredibly grateful for the life that I have

908
00:41:13,839 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 3: with my husband and with my girls. I feel so

909
00:41:17,479 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 3: incredibly grateful every day that I get to go to

910
00:41:19,399 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 3: work and work with my friends, my sister, and also

911
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 3: with brit Like that part of it is like living

912
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,999
Speaker 3: a dream, actually having a job that I love, and

913
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 3: also just being able to have and as you guys know,

914
00:41:30,839 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 3: like with mom and me, I like having a community

915
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,399
Speaker 3: of people who care about you, genuinely care about the

916
00:41:36,399 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: things that you have to share. It's been a really

917
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 3: interesting journey these last sort of seven years post bachelor.

918
00:41:42,479 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 3: I am so aware of the privileges that that has

919
00:41:45,799 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 3: brought me, and so much of that has made me happy,

920
00:41:49,479 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 3: especially when I compare it to the shit show of

921
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 3: my twenties.

922
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 1: I I feel really really.

923
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 3: Grateful, And also I think, yeah, when life is good,

924
00:41:57,439 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 3: you have to have that gratitude because there will be

925
00:41:59,839 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 3: times when life is not that good. So if you

926
00:42:01,839 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 3: don't appreciate it while it's like it now, then you're

927
00:42:04,279 --> 00:42:05,919
Speaker 3: going to be in a real state of sorry when

928
00:42:05,959 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 3: something goes wrong.

929
00:42:06,839 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny, Well it's not funny at all. Really,

930
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,519
Speaker 2: what we think it's okay to say to someone who

931
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 2: happens to be on television, particularly women, that it's okay

932
00:42:22,359 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 2: to tear apart her appearance directly to her, even though

933
00:42:26,439 --> 00:42:29,039
Speaker 2: we would never ever do that to someone in our

934
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,879
Speaker 2: own lives. And speaking to Laura really crystallized the impact

935
00:42:34,359 --> 00:42:39,039
Speaker 2: that online commentary can have on an individual. Women with

936
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 2: media careers are stuck because they're criticized no matter what

937
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 2: they look like, and that's after being socialized to believe

938
00:42:46,479 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 2: our worth comes from our appearance. There's the impact on

939
00:42:50,439 --> 00:42:53,999
Speaker 2: the individual which Laura has shared, But then you think

940
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 2: about the impact that that commentary has on all the

941
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: other women who are seeing it. If she's being abused

942
00:43:00,319 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 2: for her appearance, what does that actually say about me?

943
00:43:04,439 --> 00:43:07,559
Speaker 2: I selfishly got a lot out of this conversation. I

944
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 2: think I really needed to chat to someone about traumatic

945
00:43:10,799 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 2: birth and how it's possible to experience a trauma something

946
00:43:15,399 --> 00:43:18,999
Speaker 2: you never thought you'd go through, and be okay, and

947
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:24,439
Speaker 2: perhaps even feel stronger because of it. Join me next

948
00:43:24,439 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 2: week for a conversation with Rob Mills about standing on

949
00:43:28,279 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 2: stage and feeling your lowest.

950
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,399
Speaker 5: I was having a really, really tough time. If I'm

951
00:43:33,399 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 5: being brutally honest, I had suicidal thoughts for the very

952
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 5: first time in like seventeen years, wow, on stage during

953
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 5: a show. I was exhausted. I was so tired. I

954
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 5: miss Georgie, I miss life.

955
00:43:47,759 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 2: Last week on the podcast, I spoke to reality star

956
00:43:50,919 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 2: and chef cahn Ong about family tragedy, the brutality of

957
00:43:55,399 --> 00:43:58,039
Speaker 2: being cheated on, and what it's like to get your

958
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 2: own TV show and then focus on all the wrong things.

959
00:44:02,839 --> 00:44:04,959
Speaker 2: There's a link in the show notes to listen.

960
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 4: To that episode.

961
00:44:06,759 --> 00:44:09,959
Speaker 2: If you enjoyed the podcast, leave us a review, share

962
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 2: it with friends. We love more people to discover these conversations.

963
00:44:15,399 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 2: If you'd like to suggest someone for the podcast, we

964
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 2: also love hearing your suggestions, so you can email us

965
00:44:21,359 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 2: here at podcast at mommeya dot com dot au and

966
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,919
Speaker 2: my Instagram handle is Claire dot Stevens. Lots of the

967
00:44:28,919 --> 00:44:32,119
Speaker 2: people we've had on this season have been suggestions from

968
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 2: our listeners. This episode was produced by Tarlie Blackman, with

969
00:44:36,479 --> 00:44:39,919
Speaker 2: audio production by Scott Stronik. See you next week.