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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: I have some office gossip this morning. Have you heard

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Speaker 3: that we have a companion. We have an office ghost.

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Speaker 1: I love a ghost story telling me every.

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Speaker 3: Okay, her name is Sally, and you know Catherine, office manager. Catherine. Yep,

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Speaker 3: she has become intimately acquainted with the ghost who has

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Speaker 3: pat her on the back of the shoulder. Yes.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we're in new offices right, so we've only well,

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Speaker 2: how long have we been here for?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 4: A month or two? Not long.

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Speaker 2: So it's like you find out where the toilets are,

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Speaker 2: you find out where everything.

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Speaker 3: Is, you find the ghost. So apparently what she's been

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Speaker 3: doing is like the lights flicker, which some people say

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Speaker 3: the lights are on a timer, but it's like having a.

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Speaker 4: Buzz guard seeing the lights flicker.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so that's Sally. She knocks on the fridge

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Speaker 3: and apparently this is the most interesting part that you

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Speaker 3: guys need to be across. A doesn't like whining. She

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Speaker 3: doesn't like it when you whine. We had someone come in.

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Speaker 3: You may remember a few weeks ago we had a

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Speaker 3: Terrort card reader.

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Speaker 1: Come.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I obsessed.

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Speaker 2: I did not get mine done, but I'm hoping to

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Speaker 2: be on the next round.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 3: And you know how, our friend Mayor is very impressionable.

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Speaker 3: She was like a Terrort card reader. I won't see her.

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Speaker 3: I came out and said Maya that tarot card reader

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Speaker 3: is magic, and she basically the next person on the

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Speaker 3: list was pushed because Maya was now Maya hears that

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Speaker 3: the terrort card reader says as a ghost and the

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Speaker 3: Terrort card reader says, I need to sage the place.

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Speaker 3: Maya is like going up to building management being like

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Speaker 3: we must sage and it is a fire hazard. And

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Speaker 3: Maya is like, I will petition for this saging. And

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Speaker 3: then she allowed bells, which is apparently another option to

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Speaker 3: come in because Mia knows her. She might be on

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Speaker 3: a sabbatical. But she's like, we need to address the ghosts, but.

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Speaker 1: Why are we kicking Sally out? She sounds like she's

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Speaker 1: bringing nothing but positive vibe.

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Speaker 3: I actually agree.

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Speaker 2: I think we have to do but you have to

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Speaker 2: find out whether or not Sally's intentions are pure. The

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Speaker 2: energy reader can do that, I think.

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Speaker 3: Just neutralizer and we don't want to following anyone home.

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Speaker 3: This ghost really doesn't like when people want And apparently

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Speaker 3: two people are in the kitchen having a winge the

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Speaker 3: other day and there's this thing on a like a

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Speaker 3: serial lid, and it just kept popping up. Every time

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Speaker 3: they winged, it popped off, and then they said something

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Speaker 3: positive and it didn't pop up.

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Speaker 1: Is the ghost me a freeman?

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Speaker 3: I think it's hr I think it's some strategy to

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Speaker 3: make everyone stop winging. Yes, exactly, like stop it back

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Speaker 3: to work because everyone's being like, you know, you can't win.

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Speaker 3: Sally doesn't like it. Oh so it's actually a great

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Speaker 3: workplace policy, but just watch out.

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Speaker 2: Did the jingle jangling like catne think it's made any.

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Speaker 3: Difference, Yes, they do. Sally is overall quite friendly. I

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Speaker 3: think she's a companion that will stay here. But yes,

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Speaker 3: the jingle jangling I think did help with the ghost situation.

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Speaker 1: I feel like if you're a ghost in a high rise,

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Speaker 1: that's just a weird ghosting vocation.

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Speaker 3: To imagine being a ghost and getting stuck at work

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Speaker 3: for the rest of the time.

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Speaker 1: Turesque Rambling Mansion in the Southern Highlands.

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Speaker 2: We can't use the lift. Lily stuck up bit with

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Speaker 2: all us women.

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Speaker 3: Like quit your bitching.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. It's

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Speaker 2: what women are talking about on Monday, the eighteenth of August.

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Speaker 3: I'm Holly Wayne right, I'm Jesse Stevens, and I'm Amelia

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Speaker 3: Last Sorry, Sally and I were.

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Speaker 4: I wonder if.

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Speaker 2: Sally sits in on a record like she wouldn't like it,

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Speaker 2: just like whining, she wouldn't like us show very much. Okay,

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Speaker 2: here's what's on our agenda for today.

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Speaker 3: A wedding, a singles list, and the question of an

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Speaker 3: awkward setup.

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Speaker 2: Melania Trump's letter of peace and that time her husband

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Speaker 2: couldn't close a war ending deal with his great mates

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Speaker 2: lad in the back of a car. I think I've

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Speaker 2: got all those details correct.

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Speaker 1: And why Taylor and Travis are leading the charge for

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Speaker 1: the return of the Himbo. But first, maybe there is

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Speaker 1: a thing is bad publicity. Elf Cosmetics makers of your

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Speaker 1: favorite six dollar eyeliner. They're no one for pushing the

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Speaker 1: envelope in their advertising campaigns. They were the first beauty

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Speaker 1: company to buy and add at the Super Bowl, and

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Speaker 1: these have since featured Jennifer Coolidge from White Lotus of

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Speaker 1: a reunion of the cast of Suits. They love a

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Speaker 1: bit of publicity around their ads, but they may have

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Speaker 1: gone a bit too far with their latest effort. It

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Speaker 1: features the comedian Matt Rife. Now rifling through your memory?

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Speaker 1: Do you remember Matt Rife?

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Speaker 2: I have bad associations with him. When his name was

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Speaker 2: mentioned to me in relationship story, I was like, he's

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Speaker 2: that comic who?

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Speaker 1: He's that comic who. In twenty twenty three, he had

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Speaker 1: a Netflix special called Natural Selection. And in that Netflix

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Speaker 1: special he made a joke about a restaurant server with

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Speaker 1: a black eye, and he said that if she'd been

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Speaker 1: better at her job, she wouldn't have a black eye.

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Speaker 1: So in the ELF spot, he's playing a low rent

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Speaker 1: lawyer and here's what he says, Hey.

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Speaker 2: Girl has overpriced beauty. Hurt your wallet.

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Speaker 1: Elf that Alfino and Schmarns have gone to ELF court

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Speaker 1: from millions of clients, helping them to access beauty products

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Speaker 1: they deserve at prices that won't injure their lively ones.

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Speaker 1: Just ask the elfin people, I.

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Speaker 2: Know a thing or two about red flags and pricey makeup.

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Speaker 2: You deserve better than that.

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Speaker 1: So ELF shipped out the notes app on its iPhone

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Speaker 1: and it has apologized. It said they were only trying

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Speaker 1: to spot like beauty injustice and they have conceded that

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Speaker 1: they missed the mark. In the meantime, though, I guess

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Speaker 1: we've all been reminded that ELF is very good value

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Speaker 1: for money. So well done to the advertising agency, Right,

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Speaker 1: isn't that what they wanted?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels as though sowing the lines of division

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Speaker 3: is sort of a new form of publicity because Matt Rife.

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Speaker 3: What ELF probably knew about him is that he has

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Speaker 3: a TikTok following of almost twenty million, and eighty percent

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Speaker 3: of that following is female. Seventy five percent are under

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Speaker 3: the age of thirty four. They could not find a

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Speaker 3: better match, right, But why Matt Rife is so see

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Speaker 3: unpopular isn't even the right word, because those figures don't

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Speaker 3: suggest he is unpopular. But with controversial and with a

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Speaker 3: particular side of the culture, he's very on the nose.

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Speaker 3: The reason for that is that he grew his platform

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Speaker 3: off a female audience, and there was this joke that

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Speaker 3: women found him hot, blah blah blah, and then he

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Speaker 3: gets this Netflix special in.

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Speaker 1: All it's sorry a joke, So they didn't find him.

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Speaker 2: No, no, they do find him hot. Yeah, he's a

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Speaker 2: hot young copy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, and they kind of they built him, They

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Speaker 3: build Matt Rife.

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Speaker 1: And that's unusual for a male stand up I did

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Speaker 1: not realize.

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Speaker 3: And then he gets his Netflix special and in all

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Speaker 3: the interviews and promo he does, he basically says, I

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Speaker 3: don't panner my career to women. This special is mostly

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Speaker 3: for guys. And it became clear that he didn't value

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Speaker 3: his female base, and that, in fact, within comedy, a

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Speaker 3: female base isn't veryone expect. He wanted to push them

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Speaker 3: away because it was an embarrassment that his fans were wining.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, comics can be very snooty about this stuff, right,

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Speaker 2: so they would have been like, oh, TikTok comic book,

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Speaker 2: just because you're heart member memory.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And so he kind of pushed them away. And

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Speaker 3: then for Elf to elevate him as someone who's going

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Speaker 3: to sell to women when he has sort of mocked

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Speaker 3: and undermined a female fan base, I think was what

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Speaker 3: didn't sit right.

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Speaker 2: The thing that's interesting here is that, like you know,

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Speaker 2: the Sydney Sweeney jeans ad, like many other things, is

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Speaker 2: it used to be that brands used to try and

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Speaker 2: stay away from controversy at all costs. Brand safety. Right.

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Speaker 2: It's one oh one that you learn when you're working

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Speaker 2: in all kinds of content that's adjacent to advertising is

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Speaker 2: brand safety. Don't put me near anything that might spark controversy.

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Speaker 2: We don't want to be associated by that. Brands have

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Speaker 2: learned that that's an old fashioned way to go. They

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Speaker 2: want to be close to controversy. There is no way

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Speaker 2: in the world that Elf would not have known that

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Speaker 2: choosing matt Rife for all the reasons that you've given

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Speaker 2: Jesse massive following lots of young women was not going

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Speaker 2: to upset people. But the thing is is that the

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Speaker 2: young generation who are following matt Rife and buying Elf

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Speaker 2: cosmetics because they are their audience, are very savvy. I

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Speaker 2: knew about the story because my daughter, who's fifteen and

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Speaker 2: lives on TikTok, just bailed me up about it and said,

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Speaker 2: have you seen what Elf have done?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 4: And she was upset about it.

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Speaker 2: She said, they've used matt Rife, And she immediately just

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Speaker 2: said to me, they're just doing it for attention. Everybody

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Speaker 2: can see through it by a million miles. It's just

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Speaker 2: shallow rage bait, and it's like, are we really going

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Speaker 2: to fall for it again and again and.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But then at the same time, are we really

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Speaker 3: not going to buy the six dollar eyeliner?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: Like Elf is sure front and center of like the

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Speaker 3: global consciousness. Now we're all thinking about it. People are

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Speaker 3: saying boycott Elf, and there's all these TikTok videos, which

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Speaker 3: is just contributing to more and more brand recognition. I

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Speaker 3: think this strategy will work in terms of contributing to

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Speaker 3: else well.

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Speaker 4: It did with the jeans.

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Speaker 2: Those jeans are up an enormous amount because everybody's talking

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Speaker 2: about it. So it just shows that this associating yourself

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Speaker 2: with something controversial has become bread and butter. First Lady

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Speaker 2: Malania Trump has two Instagram accounts, a lot like your

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Speaker 2: average teenage girl, but enough about that. She has a

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Speaker 2: float to Swan where she posts about official business like

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Speaker 2: wearing sharp pencil skirts while urging people to be best.

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Speaker 2: That's her campaign, be Best. And she has a Millenia

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Speaker 2: Trump one where she sells her memoir and float to

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Speaker 2: themed Christmas ornaments.

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Speaker 4: Like quite a.

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Speaker 2: Few First Ladies before her, Millania is often wheeled out

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Speaker 2: at times of humanitarian crisis like the recent Texas floods

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Speaker 2: that affect children in particular, to kind of sort of

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Speaker 2: try to.

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Speaker 4: Humanize and soften the president.

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Speaker 2: But unlike other first ladies before her, Milania hasn't always

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Speaker 2: been that convincing in that role. Who could forget the

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Speaker 2: famous I don't care, do you flat jacket that she

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Speaker 2: wore when everybody was upset about her husband putting children

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Speaker 2: in cages. Anyway, Donald Trump has been busy, he claims,

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Speaker 2: trying to stop the war in Ukraine over the last

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Speaker 2: few days, calling for a historic summit with Vladimir Putin

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Speaker 2: in Alaska. Keen eyed observers would remember that the president

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Speaker 2: has long said that he would end this war on

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Speaker 2: one of being in office. In fact, CNN reports he

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Speaker 2: said it more than fifty three times on the record

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Speaker 2: before he became president. For the second time, it's been

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Speaker 2: a lot longer than one day, and the war is

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Speaker 2: not over. An at latest stated attempt, rolling out the

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Speaker 2: red carpet in Alaska for Putin to come and chat,

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Speaker 2: he handed the president a letter from Milania, one that

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Speaker 2: she posted to her work Instagram, kind of sort of

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Speaker 2: pleading for peace. Here's how it starts, dear President Putin.

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Speaker 2: The First Lady's letter opens. Every child shares the same

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Speaker 2: quiet dreams in their heart, whether born randomly into a

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Speaker 2: nation's rustic countryside or a magnificent city center. They dream

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Speaker 2: of love, possibility, and safety from danger. Some people are

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Speaker 2: suggesting that this letter that was very vague in what

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Speaker 2: it was trying to say, was Ai. But Trump has

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Speaker 2: spoken before about how Milania has an important role in

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Speaker 2: international affairs, specifically in Russia Ukraine. I go home, he says,

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Speaker 2: and tell the first Lady you know, I spoke to

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Speaker 2: Vladimir today. We had a wonderful conversation. And she says, oh, really,

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Speaker 2: another city.

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Speaker 4: Was just hit Amelia.

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Speaker 2: It's your job to know what's going on in high

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Speaker 2: level foreign affairs. Is it usual for the president to

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Speaker 2: hand a World Leader and Instagram letter written by his wife.

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Speaker 3: Well written by chat Chip.

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting how scared Trump is of Putin. It

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Speaker 1: really is obvious when you watch them interacts. So, as

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Speaker 1: you mentioned this summit that happened on Friday, which was

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Speaker 1: ostensibly to end the war in Ukraine, to which the

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Speaker 1: President of Ukraine, voladimis Zelenski, was not invited, Trump rolls

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Speaker 1: out the red carpet for Putin.

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Speaker 3: He's literally a wanted war criman.

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Speaker 1: He is literally a wanted war criminal to countries that

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Speaker 1: are signatorious to the International Criminal Court. Rolls out the

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Speaker 1: red carpet invites him for a lift to the summit

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Speaker 1: in his armored limousine that the President drives and which

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Speaker 1: does not have any kind of aids or bugs or

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Speaker 1: anyone listening in on. So it's very unusual for the

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Speaker 1: President to be having this secret, private conversation with Vladimir

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Speaker 1: Putin before their summit, and then after the summit spoiler alert,

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Speaker 1: nothing happened at the summit. The war is not over.

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Speaker 1: Trump appeared almost flustered or dejected, I think is maybe

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Speaker 1: a better word about the lack of progress that was made.

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Speaker 1: And for the first time, he said there isn't a

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Speaker 1: deal until there's a deal. And what I found interesting

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Speaker 1: about that was he's saying there's no deal. When has

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Speaker 1: Trump ever admitted that there's no deal. He says there's

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Speaker 1: a deal even when there isn't a deal. So he

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Speaker 1: kind of came out of this summit feeling bad about himself,

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Speaker 1: feeling like maybe he didn't push Putin at all.

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Speaker 2: Do you think the letter, Milania's letter, which has been

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Speaker 2: much analyzed, was that at least some kind of because

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Speaker 2: I imagine it would have been quite heavily vetted. Right,

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Speaker 2: you don't just handed Vladimir letter. But that was the

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Speaker 2: broad attempt to say, hey, listen, we know that there

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Speaker 2: are terrible things going on during this war, and I

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Speaker 2: have to raise it somehow. Even my wife says, I

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Speaker 2: have to raise it somehow. Do you think that's what

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Speaker 2: that was about.

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Speaker 1: I think that is a charitable conceivable and interpretation. And

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Speaker 1: what's interesting is, because Trump's so scared of Putin, he

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Speaker 1: does outsource the difficult questions and the difficult points to

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Speaker 1: other people, and specifically to women. So yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: it's conceivable that he said, Malaney, you write a note

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Speaker 1: about the children because I'm too scared to bring it up.

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Speaker 1: And then there was another moment like this, because in

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Speaker 1: the press conference afterwards, where Trump was looking dejected and sad,

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Speaker 1: an amazing journalist for the US TV network ABC News

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Speaker 1: actually asked the questions that Trump was too scared to ask.

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Speaker 1: Let's hear a clip of those questions. Now, mister Hilly,

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Speaker 1: will you agree to be tired?

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Speaker 4: Mister t.

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Speaker 1: That was the amazing Rachel Scott of ABC News. So

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Speaker 1: the question she asked, when will you stop killing civilians?

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Speaker 1: When will you agree to a ceasefire? Why should President

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Speaker 1: Trump trust you? These are all questions that Trump clearly

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Speaker 1: didn't ask him. And the reason we know that is

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Speaker 1: because Putin at this press conference was grinning and he

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Speaker 1: did a very rare thing in English. Let's hear what

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Speaker 1: he said in response to Trump thanking him for coming.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Vladimer.

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Speaker 4: Next time in Moscow.

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Speaker 1: Next time in Moscow.

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Speaker 2: What was the chat GPT latter from Milania? What didn't

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Speaker 2: it say? What was it trying to allude to?

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Speaker 3: This is the thing is that it was so painfully unspecific.

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Speaker 3: It didn't name where the children were from, what was

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Speaker 3: happening to the children. It was about a vague sense

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Speaker 3: of laughter in children's hearts and something about Putin finding

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Speaker 3: that laughter again. It's funny, yes, exactly right, and that's

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Speaker 3: what the children need, is a bit of a lull

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Speaker 3: Ukrainian authorities. This is the context that I think can

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Speaker 3: also be missed when you see pictures of two men

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Speaker 3: in suits shaking hands and kind of this chummy relationship

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Speaker 3: and this spectacle what's actually underlying that is that Ukrainian

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Speaker 3: authorities have verified the identities of over nineteen thousand abducted children,

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Speaker 3: that's over the last eleven years, and this is abducted

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Speaker 3: by Russia. So they have been forcibly transferred two areas

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Speaker 3: under Russian control, They have been assigned Russian citizenship and

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Speaker 3: then adopted into Russian families. Maybe their parents have been

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Speaker 3: killed or their parents have been arrested and they have

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Speaker 3: been adopted out.

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Speaker 1: One particularly chilling example I read is that some kids

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Speaker 1: who were taking to a summer camp just never came

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Speaker 1: home from the summer camp.

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Speaker 3: This is so horrific, and part of me feels slightly

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Speaker 3: defensive of Milania, to be honest.

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Speaker 2: To me, but it feels like she was sort of

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Speaker 2: trying to bring the show I was trying to do something.

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Speaker 3: And the fact that she's from Slovenia, which is a

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Speaker 3: country that in terms of proximity and politically is incredibly

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Speaker 3: aligned with Ukraine that part of the world. This is

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Speaker 3: the bigcause new story to them because what's happening in

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Speaker 3: Ukraine is terrifying and is felt as though it could

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Speaker 3: be a pathway to the rest of Europe, like Russia

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Speaker 3: has done this before.

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Speaker 1: I have to interrupt here. I think we are ascribing

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Speaker 1: too much to Milania. And the reason I can say

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Speaker 1: this is because I am something of a Milania expert.

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Speaker 1: I am one of a handful of people worldwide who

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Speaker 1: has read her memoir from cover to cover.

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Speaker 4: Why would you do for wealth?

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Speaker 1: What I learned from that is that we project all

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Speaker 1: sorts of things on Milania. Think about in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: when the excess Hollywood tape came out, when Trump had

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Speaker 1: talked about grabbing women in a certain place, she wore

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Speaker 1: a pussy bow blouse to the debate, and people thought

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Speaker 1: that that meant she was saying I'm really mad at Donald.

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Speaker 2: There was a lot of remember the phase that was

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Speaker 2: all like blink twice if you want to be saved?

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Speaker 1: No, no, what she doesn't want to be saved. The book

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Speaker 1: is all about her love for Donald. She's the only

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Speaker 1: person who really calls him Donald and is in a

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Speaker 1: circle because apparently he hates the name Donald. That's why

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Speaker 1: he calls himself Trump, but she calls him Donald. She

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Speaker 1: talks about him as a unifying president. I want to

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Speaker 1: just share with you one story that I think says

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Speaker 1: it all about Millania and who she really is. It

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Speaker 1: does not come from the memoir. It comes from Stephanie Grisham.

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Speaker 1: She used to be Millenia's right hand. She was all

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Speaker 1: in on Maga in the first administration. No one could

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Speaker 1: accuse her of being a stooge for the other side.

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Speaker 1: She worked with Milania on her Christmas decorations and on

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Speaker 1: her galas and on her events. She came to Milania

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Speaker 1: on January sixth, twenty twenty one, when the insurrectionists were

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Speaker 1: storming the Capitol. Milania was taking some photos of some

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Speaker 1: renovations she'd done at the White House, because she's very

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Speaker 1: proud of her renovations. Stephanie begged her to speak out.

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Speaker 1: She knew that her speaking out and saying stop saying

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Speaker 1: you're going to hang the vice president, stop saying you're

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Speaker 1: going to overthrow the democratically elected government. She knew that

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Speaker 1: that would mean something to these insurrectionists if they heard

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Speaker 1: it from Milania. She begged her, can you intervene? And

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Speaker 1: you know what Milania said, with her camera in hand

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Speaker 1: in the ballroom which she just decorated, No, she did

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Speaker 1: not intervene.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't that prove though, that Milania did not have to

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Speaker 3: write this letter. Milania does not write letters. Milania does

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Speaker 3: not insert herself. She has no part in politics. The

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Speaker 3: fact that she even wrote the letter it looks to

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Speaker 3: me like it's been edited to within a shivitz.

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Speaker 2: And you can't say the word of Ukraine, and you

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Speaker 2: can't say the word Russia, and you can't say anything

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Speaker 2: about doctor.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't suggest that she does care.

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Speaker 1: But you can't save the children without getting to how

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Speaker 1: to save the children. The letter says you could stop

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Speaker 1: this with a stroke of your pen. How about she'd

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Speaker 1: be actually brave about it and say you could stop

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Speaker 1: this by stopping your stupid war. But she never gets there.

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Speaker 3: Amelia next Zelenski, what happens next?

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Speaker 1: So, in a sign of just how disastrous this summit

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Speaker 1: was for Ukraine because there was no deal reach. Putin

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Speaker 1: made no concessions, he didn't agree to a ceasefire, Zelenski

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Speaker 1: is making an urgent trip to Washington, DC today, and

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Speaker 1: in a sign of how worried Europe is about it,

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Speaker 1: five European leaders are coming along with him, the French,

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Speaker 1: the British, the Italians, NATO Secretary General and the Commissioner

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Speaker 1: of the European Union.

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Speaker 3: So because last time he got bullied on the worldstad

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Speaker 3: and he got bullied.

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Speaker 1: So they said to him, we're not going to let

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Speaker 1: you go in alone. Here. Starmer and mccron and the

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Speaker 1: others said, we're going to flank you, basically to prevent

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Speaker 1: Trump from bullying you, from writing roughshot over you, from

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Speaker 1: making you concede territory that is yours to putin to

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Speaker 1: end the war. In a moment, Taylor Swift and Travis

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Speaker 1: Kelcey are bringing back the himbo. It's called Will Rahn

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Speaker 1: in the Free Press knew nothing about Taylor and Travis

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Speaker 1: when he sat down last week to watch the podcast

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Speaker 1: interview heard around the world. More than twelve million people

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Speaker 1: watch that podcast interview. But Will didn't know anything when

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Speaker 1: he sat down to watch it, and yet he wound

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Speaker 1: up finding their relationship dynamic oddly familiar. Here's what he

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Speaker 1: had to say. He said, the comparison that comes to

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Speaker 1: mind is the old sitcom trope of the dumb, groofy

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Speaker 1: husband and the smart, sensible wife. This arrangement was inescapable

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Speaker 1: for anyone who grew up watching television in the nineties

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Speaker 1: and the early two thousands. As I know that Jesse

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Speaker 1: and I did, from Home Improvement and The Simpsons to

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Speaker 1: the King of Queens and Family Guy. So at the time,

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Speaker 1: it's worth remembering that conservatives really complained about this dynamic.

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Speaker 1: They said, why doer men always have to be the

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Speaker 1: dumb one? And there was a sense that women were

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Speaker 1: getting a little too assertive in the domestic sphere. But

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Speaker 1: then there was this interesting backclash where by the two

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Speaker 1: thousands we'd actually decided that that sort of dynamic was

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Speaker 1: misogynistic because it means that the woman has to be

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Speaker 1: the humorless sensible one and the man can be the

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Speaker 1: goofy one who the kids like. But now with Travis

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Speaker 1: calling Taylor the smartest woman in the world and praising

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Speaker 1: her use of complicated words, Ron is making this case

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Speaker 1: for straight men that actually the most sensible thing that

435
00:20:29,821 --> 00:20:32,821
Speaker 1: they can do is find a partner who is smarter

436
00:20:32,901 --> 00:20:35,901
Speaker 1: than them. As one Twitter user put it back in

437
00:20:35,942 --> 00:20:38,461
Speaker 1: the day, I understand Taylor Swift. Now it's every girl's

438
00:20:38,462 --> 00:20:41,501
Speaker 1: biggest dream to be able to text their dog, and

439
00:20:41,542 --> 00:20:44,861
Speaker 1: that's the vibe Travis is bringing to the table. Texting

440
00:20:45,222 --> 00:20:47,782
Speaker 1: their dog. Okay, I feel uneasy.

441
00:20:47,861 --> 00:20:49,821
Speaker 2: So when I first read this, I also felt uneasy.

442
00:20:49,861 --> 00:20:53,022
Speaker 2: I felt defensive about Travis's very smart man, but there

443
00:20:53,101 --> 00:20:55,901
Speaker 2: is no question they played up to this particular trope.

444
00:20:55,901 --> 00:20:58,381
Speaker 2: And here's a little grab that explains it perfectly.

445
00:20:58,742 --> 00:21:01,982
Speaker 3: I was making albums that were a little bit more esoteric,

446
00:21:02,182 --> 00:21:09,822
Speaker 3: like folklore. So you know what esoteropy is specific exactly exactly.

447
00:21:09,621 --> 00:21:11,421
Speaker 1: Well, he knows what that means.

448
00:21:11,502 --> 00:21:13,341
Speaker 3: He doesn't know what these words mean, but he knows

449
00:21:13,341 --> 00:21:14,262
Speaker 3: what it means.

450
00:21:14,022 --> 00:21:17,181
Speaker 1: For a specific following, like a specific genre of people,

451
00:21:17,381 --> 00:21:18,182
Speaker 1: he knows what it means.

452
00:21:18,381 --> 00:21:20,341
Speaker 3: Okay, he's doing he does like he does like a

453
00:21:20,381 --> 00:21:22,142
Speaker 3: pretty I don't know what it means, but he knows

454
00:21:22,182 --> 00:21:24,141
Speaker 3: all the words, and he knows what I mean. And

455
00:21:24,141 --> 00:21:26,381
Speaker 3: he may not have read Hamlet, but I explained.

456
00:21:25,982 --> 00:21:26,422
Speaker 1: It to him.

457
00:21:28,182 --> 00:21:30,141
Speaker 3: Don't tell my middle school English teacher.

458
00:21:30,182 --> 00:21:35,022
Speaker 4: I didn't, guys.

459
00:21:35,061 --> 00:21:37,981
Speaker 3: I definitely was supposed to spark notes.

460
00:21:38,061 --> 00:21:41,821
Speaker 4: It's all right. I watched it. See, he knows what

461
00:21:41,901 --> 00:21:42,501
Speaker 4: Hamlet is.

462
00:21:42,982 --> 00:21:45,061
Speaker 1: Wait, Lion King is based off a Hamlet.

463
00:21:45,782 --> 00:21:47,262
Speaker 4: This is what we're talking about.

464
00:21:47,302 --> 00:21:50,221
Speaker 1: I didn't know that about Lion King. I didn't know

465
00:21:50,302 --> 00:21:51,381
Speaker 1: that well.

466
00:21:51,422 --> 00:21:55,221
Speaker 2: Sort of like not really, but throughout the whole interview,

467
00:21:55,222 --> 00:21:56,782
Speaker 2: and I listened to the whole interview.

468
00:21:56,901 --> 00:21:59,022
Speaker 4: I didn't watch it because you know, I have things

469
00:21:59,061 --> 00:21:59,382
Speaker 4: to do.

470
00:22:00,222 --> 00:22:02,502
Speaker 2: I listened while I did them in about five different

471
00:22:02,502 --> 00:22:05,542
Speaker 2: sittings because it's three hours long. But this has played

472
00:22:05,581 --> 00:22:08,902
Speaker 2: out a lot, this particular dynamic, which is where Taylor,

473
00:22:08,982 --> 00:22:12,982
Speaker 2: who is like, remember, a songwriter, a poet, says something

474
00:22:13,742 --> 00:22:16,621
Speaker 2: arty and interesting and Travis goes, oh, I love it

475
00:22:16,661 --> 00:22:18,821
Speaker 2: when you talk like that, and then she goes, don't

476
00:22:18,821 --> 00:22:20,782
Speaker 2: be silly, you know what it means. And then the

477
00:22:21,022 --> 00:22:23,022
Speaker 2: third voice you can hear in that clip is his brother,

478
00:22:23,462 --> 00:22:26,382
Speaker 2: who's obviously hosting. And you've got to remember that this

479
00:22:26,422 --> 00:22:29,181
Speaker 2: is on their sports podcast, New Heights. And obviously the

480
00:22:29,262 --> 00:22:33,382
Speaker 2: dynamic that these dudes have is they are sports bros

481
00:22:33,422 --> 00:22:36,342
Speaker 2: who talk a lot about football, and they're clearly very

482
00:22:36,381 --> 00:22:40,341
Speaker 2: smart and ambitious, but they're not meant to be intellectuals.

483
00:22:39,581 --> 00:22:41,822
Speaker 3: Right and merely why do it make you uncomfortable?

484
00:22:42,422 --> 00:22:45,061
Speaker 1: Well, just because I wonder what it says about where

485
00:22:45,141 --> 00:22:47,542
Speaker 1: we're at feminism wise. You know, we're always sort of

486
00:22:47,621 --> 00:22:50,262
Speaker 1: gauging the strength of feminism in the culture on a

487
00:22:50,302 --> 00:22:52,542
Speaker 1: scale of one to ten, where ten is Beyonce appearing

488
00:22:52,542 --> 00:22:55,101
Speaker 1: in front of a light up life size feminism sign

489
00:22:55,141 --> 00:22:57,661
Speaker 1: and one is the fifties. What does it mean that

490
00:22:57,702 --> 00:23:01,222
Speaker 1: we're regressing to the idea of that nineties sitcom trope.

491
00:23:01,341 --> 00:23:03,422
Speaker 3: I don't think we are. I think we have evolved

492
00:23:03,422 --> 00:23:05,861
Speaker 3: beyond it. That sitcom trope I don't think was about

493
00:23:05,861 --> 00:23:08,182
Speaker 3: a smart woman. I think it was about a straight woman.

494
00:23:08,462 --> 00:23:12,061
Speaker 3: I don't think that Marge or like in Everybody Loves Raymond,

495
00:23:12,061 --> 00:23:16,222
Speaker 3: that woman was barely characterized. Really it was the goofy,

496
00:23:16,502 --> 00:23:22,302
Speaker 3: foolish husband, but he still really had the power. Whereas

497
00:23:22,341 --> 00:23:24,621
Speaker 3: what I think is interesting in this dynamic, and I

498
00:23:24,621 --> 00:23:27,622
Speaker 3: think within any couple there is a dynamic that you perform.

499
00:23:28,022 --> 00:23:30,182
Speaker 3: It has grains of truth to it, but in public

500
00:23:30,222 --> 00:23:32,702
Speaker 3: you kind of play it up because it's a bit fun.

501
00:23:33,422 --> 00:23:37,461
Speaker 3: But in a relationship, especially when a man concedes that

502
00:23:37,502 --> 00:23:40,901
Speaker 3: a woman is clever or funny, I think it's a

503
00:23:40,982 --> 00:23:43,461
Speaker 3: concession of power. Like I've seen a lot of relationships

504
00:23:43,462 --> 00:23:47,982
Speaker 3: where a man won't accept or kind of stifles those

505
00:23:48,061 --> 00:23:51,101
Speaker 3: qualities in a female partner. You know, I remember hanging

506
00:23:51,101 --> 00:23:52,341
Speaker 3: out with this guy all the time. I was wondering

507
00:23:52,341 --> 00:23:53,861
Speaker 3: why I was getting a weird vibe and he did

508
00:23:53,901 --> 00:23:56,182
Speaker 3: not laugh when a woman made a joke. To laugh

509
00:23:56,222 --> 00:23:59,341
Speaker 3: at a woman and accept that she's funny and she's

510
00:23:59,462 --> 00:24:01,302
Speaker 3: kind of I don't know, someone who you can see

511
00:24:01,302 --> 00:24:04,781
Speaker 3: as a well rounded human being. Is to elevate her,

512
00:24:04,821 --> 00:24:06,782
Speaker 3: like when you laugh at someone's joke, you're giving them

513
00:24:06,782 --> 00:24:08,902
Speaker 3: a little bit of power. And I think for Travis

514
00:24:08,942 --> 00:24:13,542
Speaker 3: to sit there in awe of Taylor and the clever,

515
00:24:13,821 --> 00:24:16,702
Speaker 3: arty things that she says, I thought that was kind

516
00:24:16,702 --> 00:24:17,181
Speaker 3: of lovely.

517
00:24:17,302 --> 00:24:20,022
Speaker 2: The thing that's interesting to me about this is because

518
00:24:20,141 --> 00:24:23,581
Speaker 2: this whole podcast is being held up as relationship goals

519
00:24:23,782 --> 00:24:27,061
Speaker 2: very large, right, because they look absolutely besoded with each other.

520
00:24:27,742 --> 00:24:31,141
Speaker 2: It is wonderful and refreshing how unthreatened he is on

521
00:24:31,341 --> 00:24:34,102
Speaker 2: so many levels by Taylor Swift, and that they are

522
00:24:34,422 --> 00:24:39,141
Speaker 2: clearly still absolutely crazy about each other. But extrapolating from that,

523
00:24:39,302 --> 00:24:41,461
Speaker 2: as this headline did in the article you're talking about

524
00:24:41,581 --> 00:24:45,621
Speaker 2: marry a smart woman, is like, what about the smart

525
00:24:45,661 --> 00:24:47,942
Speaker 2: woman who wakes up in five years and realize she's

526
00:24:47,942 --> 00:24:52,502
Speaker 2: married to an idiot? Now I'm not calling before everyone

527
00:24:52,502 --> 00:24:55,341
Speaker 2: asks me Travis kelseyon neediot because he is clearly not

528
00:24:55,422 --> 00:25:00,381
Speaker 2: an idiot, right, He is an intensely intelligent, ambitious, driven guy,

529
00:25:01,141 --> 00:25:04,261
Speaker 2: and he obviously really loves how smart she is, But

530
00:25:04,381 --> 00:25:07,022
Speaker 2: she is a musician deep in her soul, like she

531
00:25:07,101 --> 00:25:10,702
Speaker 2: is an artist, right, she writes poetry, and you never

532
00:25:10,742 --> 00:25:12,782
Speaker 2: hear him talk about music. He talks about her music

533
00:25:12,861 --> 00:25:14,941
Speaker 2: like he says you're an amazing baby every five minutes. But

534
00:25:14,982 --> 00:25:18,302
Speaker 2: in that whole GQ article and this whole piece she

535
00:25:18,621 --> 00:25:21,581
Speaker 2: gushes and gushes in this interview about football because like

536
00:25:21,621 --> 00:25:25,061
Speaker 2: with the fervor of an evangelist who's just discovered something,

537
00:25:25,101 --> 00:25:26,862
Speaker 2: she's like, I didn't even.

538
00:25:26,661 --> 00:25:29,061
Speaker 4: Know what it was, and it's amazing.

539
00:25:28,661 --> 00:25:32,461
Speaker 2: Right, None of that is reciprocated by him about her passion,

540
00:25:32,502 --> 00:25:35,742
Speaker 2: which is music and art. And I think it's gorgeous

541
00:25:35,742 --> 00:25:37,502
Speaker 2: and I wish them all the best. But the problem

542
00:25:37,502 --> 00:25:40,421
Speaker 2: with the idea that women want to text their dog,

543
00:25:40,901 --> 00:25:42,861
Speaker 2: you know, and marry some guy who just thinks they're

544
00:25:42,901 --> 00:25:46,461
Speaker 2: amazing and isn't very smart himself, is it might feel

545
00:25:46,502 --> 00:25:49,222
Speaker 2: like a holiday at first, like a sort of delicious

546
00:25:49,222 --> 00:25:52,262
Speaker 2: break for your brain that he's got big labrador energy,

547
00:25:52,341 --> 00:25:56,142
Speaker 2: this guy, whether it's Travis or some fictional dog texting

548
00:25:56,222 --> 00:26:00,302
Speaker 2: dude like it's lovely and refreshing, But ultimately, don't you

549
00:26:00,341 --> 00:26:01,502
Speaker 2: want someone you can talk to?

550
00:26:02,381 --> 00:26:04,341
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think that's a good point. But I want

551
00:26:04,381 --> 00:26:07,302
Speaker 1: to say that this dynamic also was an interesting inversion

552
00:26:07,422 --> 00:26:11,101
Speaker 1: of the sixties groupie dynamic, because Okay, it sounds funny

553
00:26:11,101 --> 00:26:12,902
Speaker 1: to say that if Travis, given that he has won

554
00:26:12,942 --> 00:26:15,661
Speaker 1: three super Bowls, but he's kind of a groupie in

555
00:26:15,661 --> 00:26:19,141
Speaker 1: this situation, and we're so used to that being a woman,

556
00:26:19,302 --> 00:26:22,022
Speaker 1: and specifically a decorative woman or a woman who is

557
00:26:22,061 --> 00:26:23,942
Speaker 1: perceived as decorative.

558
00:26:23,502 --> 00:26:26,382
Speaker 4: And he's very decorative, he's in his very hot.

559
00:26:26,141 --> 00:26:28,901
Speaker 2: I think she talks about that a bit in the

560
00:26:28,942 --> 00:26:29,621
Speaker 2: interview too.

561
00:26:29,661 --> 00:26:31,821
Speaker 1: And so I sort of love that. It does feel

562
00:26:31,821 --> 00:26:35,782
Speaker 1: really subversive to say, in this situation, the man is

563
00:26:35,821 --> 00:26:38,862
Speaker 1: the decorative groupie, and I don't know if we need

564
00:26:38,901 --> 00:26:42,022
Speaker 1: to expect him to then also have a nuanced understanding

565
00:26:42,101 --> 00:26:44,661
Speaker 1: of the lyrics of all two Well, the termini version.

566
00:26:44,542 --> 00:26:46,821
Speaker 2: I don't think that, but I just mean, as we

567
00:26:47,141 --> 00:26:50,061
Speaker 2: want to do we see a dynamic like this play out,

568
00:26:50,141 --> 00:26:52,621
Speaker 2: we go that's what all relationships should be. It's like,

569
00:26:52,901 --> 00:26:57,302
Speaker 2: well maybe, but also I just would caution against the

570
00:26:57,341 --> 00:26:59,821
Speaker 2: idea that there should be a massive mismatch in your

571
00:26:59,942 --> 00:27:02,581
Speaker 2: interest and intellectual level at all, Like I mean, obviously

572
00:27:02,581 --> 00:27:06,021
Speaker 2: opposite's attract and all those things. But marry someone smarter

573
00:27:06,101 --> 00:27:08,581
Speaker 2: than you. Is that blanketly good advice?

574
00:27:08,901 --> 00:27:13,341
Speaker 3: You know, I did a research study years ago about

575
00:27:13,661 --> 00:27:15,901
Speaker 3: heterosexual love and the big thing that came out of

576
00:27:15,901 --> 00:27:18,061
Speaker 3: it when I interviewed and it was mostly interviewing men

577
00:27:18,542 --> 00:27:21,421
Speaker 3: about what contributed to the longevity of their relationships, and

578
00:27:21,462 --> 00:27:25,981
Speaker 3: they said intellectual equality, finding someone who was an intellectual equal.

579
00:27:26,422 --> 00:27:31,101
Speaker 3: There can be something quite reductive about calling Travis not intellectual,

580
00:27:31,182 --> 00:27:34,542
Speaker 3: Like that's a very specific vision, is right.

581
00:27:34,422 --> 00:27:36,262
Speaker 4: Like, he's clearly very smart.

582
00:27:36,341 --> 00:27:37,942
Speaker 1: He's very emotionally intelligent.

583
00:27:38,302 --> 00:27:40,421
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just not that he's not a poet. But

584
00:27:40,462 --> 00:27:43,262
Speaker 2: that bit that we've just pulled out, that's the roles

585
00:27:43,302 --> 00:27:45,982
Speaker 2: they're playing, is that he's not book smart and verted

586
00:27:46,022 --> 00:27:48,501
Speaker 2: comments he didn't read Hamlet. She has to tell him

587
00:27:48,542 --> 00:27:52,022
Speaker 2: what esoteric means. Like that's what they're putting out there,

588
00:27:52,022 --> 00:27:54,102
Speaker 2: to be clear, it's not like you know what I mean.

589
00:27:54,302 --> 00:27:58,621
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I do think that there's something maybe transgressive

590
00:27:58,942 --> 00:28:01,742
Speaker 3: about having space for all of a woman's cleverness inside

591
00:28:01,742 --> 00:28:04,381
Speaker 3: a heterosexual relationship. That does feel a bit fresh to me,

592
00:28:04,542 --> 00:28:08,581
Speaker 3: Like the idea growing up, Like the vision was that

593
00:28:09,341 --> 00:28:13,542
Speaker 3: his street is full of stories of really intellectual academic

594
00:28:14,262 --> 00:28:17,661
Speaker 3: men who were just admired by their wives, right, Like

595
00:28:17,661 --> 00:28:19,022
Speaker 3: that's a story we told. I'm sure it was.

596
00:28:19,022 --> 00:28:20,862
Speaker 4: And she brought the tea while he was you.

597
00:28:20,821 --> 00:28:23,261
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, well he sat there and you know, Wrotey's

598
00:28:23,262 --> 00:28:25,861
Speaker 3: books or his poetry. Like I mean, these people you

599
00:28:25,861 --> 00:28:28,862
Speaker 3: would imagine have enormous egos, like their work is egos.

600
00:28:28,901 --> 00:28:32,302
Speaker 3: But in that interview, what was refreshing was that it

601
00:28:32,462 --> 00:28:35,302
Speaker 3: seemed like they were just in awe of each other

602
00:28:35,381 --> 00:28:38,662
Speaker 3: for different reasons. If people watch this, if young women

603
00:28:38,702 --> 00:28:41,062
Speaker 3: watch this and go, oh, here's two people who treat

604
00:28:41,062 --> 00:28:43,221
Speaker 3: each other nicely for two hours, then that.

605
00:28:43,342 --> 00:28:46,022
Speaker 2: Feels like I love it, and I love that they're

606
00:28:46,062 --> 00:28:48,741
Speaker 2: stunning that dynamic. But I'm just going to sound a

607
00:28:48,742 --> 00:28:50,782
Speaker 2: word of caution, maybe from a woman who's been there,

608
00:28:50,782 --> 00:28:55,062
Speaker 2: who knows what might seem very exciting at first, because

609
00:28:55,102 --> 00:28:57,942
Speaker 2: one's very clear in this conversation all the way through

610
00:28:58,022 --> 00:29:00,182
Speaker 2: when they talk about their life together, is how happy

611
00:29:00,902 --> 00:29:04,302
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift is in Travis Kelsey's world. She talks about

612
00:29:04,342 --> 00:29:06,382
Speaker 2: it a lot, being at the family barbecues with kids

613
00:29:06,422 --> 00:29:08,582
Speaker 2: being passed through the windows and all these giant men

614
00:29:08,661 --> 00:29:10,822
Speaker 2: who protect her and all this stuff, like she clearly

615
00:29:10,862 --> 00:29:13,781
Speaker 2: loves it, but I just might want to say that,

616
00:29:14,062 --> 00:29:16,181
Speaker 2: you know, in a few years, when the shine wears off,

617
00:29:16,222 --> 00:29:18,461
Speaker 2: you might just find yourself at a barbecue surrounded by

618
00:29:18,462 --> 00:29:19,982
Speaker 2: a giant manybo Do you want to.

619
00:29:19,942 --> 00:29:22,782
Speaker 4: Talk about football deals? And you're like, hold on, what.

620
00:29:22,822 --> 00:29:26,542
Speaker 2: Happened to my esoteric poetry buddies, which is only to say,

621
00:29:27,502 --> 00:29:29,741
Speaker 2: we always talk about how romantic love Concett is up

622
00:29:29,782 --> 00:29:33,221
Speaker 2: to think that one person fulfills everything. It's fine, but

623
00:29:33,342 --> 00:29:35,302
Speaker 2: you just need to find your mates so you can

624
00:29:35,302 --> 00:29:36,502
Speaker 2: go and talk about poetry.

625
00:29:36,542 --> 00:29:40,022
Speaker 1: And she has She has Stevie Nixon speed dial. If

626
00:29:40,062 --> 00:29:41,782
Speaker 1: she wants to talk about poetry.

627
00:29:41,342 --> 00:29:42,941
Speaker 2: She does, And so I think as long as you

628
00:29:43,062 --> 00:29:45,902
Speaker 2: keep that posse of pals, it's fine.

629
00:29:46,222 --> 00:29:49,701
Speaker 3: I want to go back to a theory that we

630
00:29:49,822 --> 00:29:53,902
Speaker 3: floated last week, because I floated on this podcast, a

631
00:29:54,022 --> 00:29:56,462
Speaker 3: theory that Taylor will be performing at the Super Bowl

632
00:29:56,862 --> 00:29:59,661
Speaker 3: and there had been easter eggs. Well, well, well the

633
00:30:00,262 --> 00:30:03,502
Speaker 3: red string people, Oh my goodness, it blew up. We

634
00:30:03,622 --> 00:30:06,982
Speaker 3: put the video on Socials millions of views because the

635
00:30:07,022 --> 00:30:11,462
Speaker 3: Internet watched this interview and went, we are being fed

636
00:30:11,542 --> 00:30:13,422
Speaker 3: easter eggs. Can I tell you some of the biggest

637
00:30:13,422 --> 00:30:15,662
Speaker 3: Easter eggs about the Super Bowls that are found within

638
00:30:15,702 --> 00:30:18,421
Speaker 3: this video. The first one is that she kept joking

639
00:30:18,502 --> 00:30:19,502
Speaker 3: about sourdough.

640
00:30:19,902 --> 00:30:21,822
Speaker 2: She said, well, she was just talked about sourdo for

641
00:30:21,822 --> 00:30:22,582
Speaker 2: most of the conversation.

642
00:30:22,702 --> 00:30:25,142
Speaker 3: Yeah, all these references to sourdough and how she thinks

643
00:30:25,142 --> 00:30:27,741
Speaker 3: about sourdough sixty percent of the time. What a strange

644
00:30:27,742 --> 00:30:30,782
Speaker 3: thing to say. Well, the San Francisco forty nine ers

645
00:30:30,822 --> 00:30:34,822
Speaker 3: are hosting the sixtieth Super Bowl next year. Right, Oh, okay,

646
00:30:34,862 --> 00:30:38,342
Speaker 3: sixty sixty whatever, that's you're being a bit crazy. Well,

647
00:30:38,502 --> 00:30:41,862
Speaker 3: the mascot of the San Francisco forty nine ers is

648
00:30:41,902 --> 00:30:45,782
Speaker 3: sour dough. Sam both the number and the mention of

649
00:30:45,822 --> 00:30:49,142
Speaker 3: the bread type has been like his sense coward, sad,

650
00:30:49,222 --> 00:30:52,941
Speaker 3: and that's a mascot mascot. Yeah. She also discussed how

651
00:30:53,342 --> 00:30:56,222
Speaker 3: she's obsessed with numerology and she dropped a lot of numbers.

652
00:30:56,262 --> 00:31:00,102
Speaker 3: So after Jason's intro, she said, thanks for the forty

653
00:31:00,142 --> 00:31:02,862
Speaker 3: seven second intro. Jason sounds quite off the cuff.

654
00:31:02,902 --> 00:31:05,582
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Well they're so exhausting. These people are

655
00:31:05,622 --> 00:31:06,262
Speaker 4: so exhausted.

656
00:31:06,542 --> 00:31:09,422
Speaker 3: Levi Stadium was the forty seventh stop on the era

657
00:31:09,582 --> 00:31:10,982
Speaker 3: to her, which is where the Super Bowl is being

658
00:31:10,982 --> 00:31:13,862
Speaker 3: held out and every time she dropped one of these

659
00:31:13,862 --> 00:31:17,142
Speaker 3: Easter eggs, eagle eyed viewers thought that they saw Travis

660
00:31:17,222 --> 00:31:19,302
Speaker 3: with a little smirk. He couldn't help but just go

661
00:31:20,062 --> 00:31:20,782
Speaker 3: how much he is.

662
00:31:20,862 --> 00:31:24,542
Speaker 1: That's because he always has that little of her.

663
00:31:24,702 --> 00:31:26,942
Speaker 2: So I listened to this whole thing, as I said,

664
00:31:27,022 --> 00:31:30,062
Speaker 2: and it was very charming in many places. But the

665
00:31:30,542 --> 00:31:35,862
Speaker 2: discussion of easter egginess, yeah, like it must be so exhausting.

666
00:31:36,022 --> 00:31:38,102
Speaker 2: She talks about how much she loves it, how deliberate

667
00:31:38,142 --> 00:31:39,501
Speaker 2: it is, and she says, you know, but for your

668
00:31:39,542 --> 00:31:41,222
Speaker 2: average person, they don't have to pick up on all this.

669
00:31:41,302 --> 00:31:43,622
Speaker 2: I'm like, yes we do, because it's all any want

670
00:31:43,622 --> 00:31:45,102
Speaker 2: to talk about the only thing I'm going to say

671
00:31:45,102 --> 00:31:45,622
Speaker 2: about soda?

672
00:31:45,862 --> 00:31:46,741
Speaker 4: Right? Do you know me?

673
00:31:46,782 --> 00:31:48,701
Speaker 2: I know how I love my gardening, So I relate

674
00:31:48,742 --> 00:31:50,382
Speaker 2: to having a boring hobby that you want to tell

675
00:31:50,422 --> 00:31:51,461
Speaker 2: everybody about and they don't.

676
00:31:51,302 --> 00:31:51,782
Speaker 4: Want to listen.

677
00:31:52,462 --> 00:31:54,181
Speaker 2: She talks a lot about how she sends him off

678
00:31:54,222 --> 00:31:57,542
Speaker 2: to training camp with his freshly baked sour dough pop tarts.

679
00:31:57,582 --> 00:31:59,742
Speaker 2: Who even knew that was a thing. She's making soder

680
00:31:59,862 --> 00:32:03,262
Speaker 2: with sprinkles in it for his nieces she's making Blueberry

681
00:32:03,222 --> 00:32:06,862
Speaker 2: sad and it's very Megan. It's coming off as intensely Megan.

682
00:32:07,342 --> 00:32:12,142
Speaker 2: There's a lot in this episode that like, it's really engaging, lovely,

683
00:32:12,182 --> 00:32:16,902
Speaker 2: but it's also like Taylor's era at the moment is housewife,

684
00:32:18,022 --> 00:32:24,102
Speaker 2: no question, housewife who works unbelievably because she also the

685
00:32:24,102 --> 00:32:26,902
Speaker 2: thing that comes across in this which is amazing is

686
00:32:26,982 --> 00:32:29,062
Speaker 2: you know, she recorded this whole album while she was

687
00:32:29,102 --> 00:32:30,982
Speaker 2: on tour and she was flying backwards and forths between

688
00:32:31,022 --> 00:32:33,182
Speaker 2: Sweden and all these places, and then she's clearly had

689
00:32:33,182 --> 00:32:36,102
Speaker 2: five minutes off during the holidays and she has committed

690
00:32:36,102 --> 00:32:37,701
Speaker 2: to being the world's best Sourdo Baker.

691
00:32:37,942 --> 00:32:39,462
Speaker 3: I love that props.

692
00:32:39,661 --> 00:32:41,982
Speaker 2: I wonder if there are any flower sprinkles in any

693
00:32:42,022 --> 00:32:42,221
Speaker 2: of that.

694
00:32:43,862 --> 00:32:46,902
Speaker 3: After the break, a wedding, a singles list, and the

695
00:32:47,022 --> 00:32:49,542
Speaker 3: question of awkward setups.

696
00:32:49,862 --> 00:32:53,582
Speaker 2: One unlimited out Loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

697
00:32:53,622 --> 00:32:57,702
Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link

698
00:32:57,742 --> 00:32:59,461
Speaker 2: in the show notes to get us in your ears

699
00:32:59,742 --> 00:33:02,461
Speaker 2: five days a week, and a huge thank you to

700
00:33:02,661 --> 00:33:04,302
Speaker 2: all our current subscribers.

701
00:33:10,342 --> 00:33:11,941
Speaker 3: Friends. I'm going to tell you the story of a

702
00:33:11,982 --> 00:33:15,502
Speaker 3: bride named Jessica Brander, who had a very original idea

703
00:33:15,582 --> 00:33:17,902
Speaker 3: about what to do with the singles at her wedding,

704
00:33:18,142 --> 00:33:20,542
Speaker 3: and I want you to tell me whether it is

705
00:33:20,582 --> 00:33:24,862
Speaker 3: offensive or whether it's play on okay. Jessica is from

706
00:33:24,982 --> 00:33:27,142
Speaker 3: New Jersey, and she spoke to The New York Post

707
00:33:27,182 --> 00:33:30,622
Speaker 3: last week about a cute little feature of her recent wedding.

708
00:33:30,622 --> 00:33:32,662
Speaker 3: We like to do things that make things a little

709
00:33:32,661 --> 00:33:36,302
Speaker 3: bit different, good for the Instagram. I love how these

710
00:33:36,462 --> 00:33:38,942
Speaker 3: in these stories. It's like, was the groom even there?

711
00:33:38,942 --> 00:33:40,702
Speaker 3: There's no mention of the groom? I don't think there's

712
00:33:40,702 --> 00:33:43,062
Speaker 3: a picture of him. He's unawareness happened.

713
00:33:43,102 --> 00:33:43,942
Speaker 4: He's not relevant.

714
00:33:44,062 --> 00:33:46,902
Speaker 3: He's like what singles list way to the New York Post,

715
00:33:46,902 --> 00:33:50,182
Speaker 3: He's got no idea. Jessica put together a poster called

716
00:33:50,222 --> 00:33:53,062
Speaker 3: the Singles Sheet. So she made it on canvas, and

717
00:33:53,102 --> 00:33:55,622
Speaker 3: it's like an a four piece of paper, right, and

718
00:33:55,661 --> 00:33:59,661
Speaker 3: it says at the top, tonight's most eligible, and below

719
00:33:59,742 --> 00:34:04,102
Speaker 3: are thirty pictures of all the single people in attendance.

720
00:34:04,782 --> 00:34:07,782
Speaker 3: She thought it was a great alternative to a singles table,

721
00:34:08,062 --> 00:34:10,582
Speaker 3: and everyone knew it was just a bit of fun.

722
00:34:11,022 --> 00:34:16,422
Speaker 3: Included on the eligible single sheet were the groom's grandparents,

723
00:34:16,422 --> 00:34:18,102
Speaker 3: so I guess he did attend, he was there. I

724
00:34:18,102 --> 00:34:19,982
Speaker 3: still don't think he knew that the grandparents were on it,

725
00:34:20,022 --> 00:34:22,461
Speaker 3: so it wasn't like it was like all you know, young,

726
00:34:22,622 --> 00:34:26,221
Speaker 3: It was just anyone who's single here they are. You

727
00:34:26,302 --> 00:34:28,701
Speaker 3: simply will not believe. This story, which started with a

728
00:34:28,741 --> 00:34:31,862
Speaker 3: TikTok video, garnered a lot of criticism. Right the internet

729
00:34:32,022 --> 00:34:34,781
Speaker 3: just exploded. One comment said if her face had been

730
00:34:34,862 --> 00:34:37,262
Speaker 3: on that post, she would have taken back her gift,

731
00:34:37,741 --> 00:34:42,022
Speaker 3: and another described it as humiliating. I am desperate to

732
00:34:42,062 --> 00:34:45,022
Speaker 3: know what you think, because I had a very strong reaction, Amelia.

733
00:34:45,382 --> 00:34:46,741
Speaker 3: What do you reckon? Is this play on?

734
00:34:47,022 --> 00:34:50,582
Speaker 1: Look? It would have been ideal as she'd gotten the agreement.

735
00:34:50,862 --> 00:34:55,221
Speaker 2: That's my number one question, Busy did she get because

736
00:34:55,221 --> 00:34:56,542
Speaker 2: that's the only thing that matters.

737
00:34:56,542 --> 00:34:57,462
Speaker 4: Did she get consents?

738
00:34:57,582 --> 00:35:00,301
Speaker 3: She did not, But after this story blew up, she

739
00:35:00,342 --> 00:35:02,421
Speaker 3: messaged them and went, hey, were you offended? And they

740
00:35:02,462 --> 00:35:03,182
Speaker 3: said they weren't.

741
00:35:03,382 --> 00:35:05,742
Speaker 4: So that's why this is bad.

742
00:35:06,982 --> 00:35:09,022
Speaker 2: If she'd have got their agreement, it would have been

743
00:35:09,142 --> 00:35:10,382
Speaker 2: fun anyway.

744
00:35:10,462 --> 00:35:11,341
Speaker 4: Sorry, Amelia, I.

745
00:35:11,302 --> 00:35:15,261
Speaker 1: Know what's controversial that look. I applaud the direction she

746
00:35:15,382 --> 00:35:18,502
Speaker 1: was going in. I went to a lot of weddings

747
00:35:18,582 --> 00:35:21,582
Speaker 1: in my single era and had a miserable time because

748
00:35:21,622 --> 00:35:24,261
Speaker 1: I'd always have to be sussing out who was single there.

749
00:35:24,822 --> 00:35:27,542
Speaker 1: And I discover that a lot of people feel uncomfortable

750
00:35:27,542 --> 00:35:29,861
Speaker 1: with the idea of being set up. But I love

751
00:35:29,902 --> 00:35:32,062
Speaker 1: the idea of being set up, and I preach it

752
00:35:32,102 --> 00:35:34,981
Speaker 1: to everyone. And it's because I have a theory about

753
00:35:34,982 --> 00:35:38,221
Speaker 1: a thing called weak ties. Can I briefly please do this?

754
00:35:38,342 --> 00:35:40,181
Speaker 1: I keep meaning to write a book about it? So

755
00:35:40,342 --> 00:35:41,062
Speaker 1: weak ties?

756
00:35:41,302 --> 00:35:44,422
Speaker 3: Excuse is that wheat ties is in wheat box or

757
00:35:44,462 --> 00:35:48,461
Speaker 3: is that weak as in like not strong w EACs.

758
00:35:48,822 --> 00:35:50,982
Speaker 3: It's your accent amelia. It really throws people.

759
00:35:51,221 --> 00:35:54,181
Speaker 1: You know everyone in your social circle, you know them all.

760
00:35:54,462 --> 00:35:56,661
Speaker 1: You know who's single, you know who's not single, the

761
00:35:56,781 --> 00:35:59,262
Speaker 1: single people, there's a reason why you're not dating them. Okay,

762
00:35:59,462 --> 00:36:02,062
Speaker 1: So there's no one in your immediate circle who you

763
00:36:02,062 --> 00:36:05,942
Speaker 1: can end up with. Weak ties are the people beyond

764
00:36:05,982 --> 00:36:08,741
Speaker 1: your social circle who you know but you maybe don't

765
00:36:08,741 --> 00:36:12,462
Speaker 1: know very well. Those people know the people that you

766
00:36:12,502 --> 00:36:15,582
Speaker 1: can be in a relationship with. So an example might be,

767
00:36:15,741 --> 00:36:19,862
Speaker 1: for instance, a barista that you have a particularly friendly relationship,

768
00:36:20,142 --> 00:36:22,861
Speaker 1: maybe a coworker you've never even gotten coffee with, but

769
00:36:22,942 --> 00:36:25,382
Speaker 1: who you say hello to in the hall and smile

770
00:36:25,422 --> 00:36:27,861
Speaker 1: at each other. These are people who you might feel

771
00:36:27,902 --> 00:36:29,821
Speaker 1: a bit embarrassed to have you set someone up with,

772
00:36:29,902 --> 00:36:32,102
Speaker 1: but you've got to ask them. You simply have to

773
00:36:32,142 --> 00:36:34,861
Speaker 1: ask them. And so I made up my business when

774
00:36:34,902 --> 00:36:38,181
Speaker 1: I wanted to be in a relationship of asking literally

775
00:36:38,261 --> 00:36:40,502
Speaker 1: everyone I knew the name of to set me up

776
00:36:40,542 --> 00:36:43,182
Speaker 1: with someone tell me the words you used. I said,

777
00:36:43,462 --> 00:36:45,381
Speaker 1: do you know someone to set me up with? And

778
00:36:45,422 --> 00:36:47,622
Speaker 1: when they said no, I would say, that's a lie,

779
00:36:47,781 --> 00:36:50,861
Speaker 1: you do. And then they go, well, there's this one guy,

780
00:36:50,982 --> 00:36:53,062
Speaker 1: and be like, set it up, make it happen.

781
00:36:53,181 --> 00:36:56,142
Speaker 2: You're confident because I would be nervous to say that

782
00:36:56,181 --> 00:36:58,221
Speaker 2: to people because if they said no, I'd be like,

783
00:36:58,261 --> 00:36:59,741
Speaker 2: you don't want to set me up with anyone because

784
00:36:59,781 --> 00:37:01,181
Speaker 2: you don't think something wrong with me.

785
00:37:01,622 --> 00:37:03,942
Speaker 3: You don't think I'm worthy because I felt like that, Amelia.

786
00:37:03,982 --> 00:37:06,262
Speaker 3: But I don't have your directness. So I was waiting

787
00:37:06,502 --> 00:37:09,221
Speaker 3: for people to just set me up without having to

788
00:37:09,261 --> 00:37:09,982
Speaker 3: ask for it.

789
00:37:10,181 --> 00:37:13,302
Speaker 1: And it's interesting it never even occurred to me this idea,

790
00:37:13,382 --> 00:37:15,542
Speaker 1: because you think they'd be like, I don't know anyone,

791
00:37:15,582 --> 00:37:17,422
Speaker 1: but they would and they just wouldn't set you up

792
00:37:17,462 --> 00:37:17,982
Speaker 1: with They're.

793
00:37:17,822 --> 00:37:19,221
Speaker 4: Not recommending you to anyone.

794
00:37:19,422 --> 00:37:19,622
Speaker 1: You know.

795
00:37:19,822 --> 00:37:22,741
Speaker 2: I've got some single male friends who I would not

796
00:37:22,822 --> 00:37:25,102
Speaker 2: recommend to anyone. They're fine to have a drink with,

797
00:37:25,261 --> 00:37:26,821
Speaker 2: but they're not a guy I would like any of

798
00:37:26,822 --> 00:37:29,301
Speaker 2: my friend's day. They said to me, why aren't you

799
00:37:29,302 --> 00:37:31,302
Speaker 2: fixing me up with any of my friends? Your friends,

800
00:37:31,342 --> 00:37:31,861
Speaker 2: I'd be like.

801
00:37:31,982 --> 00:37:34,661
Speaker 1: No, but that's weak ties. See if a woman came

802
00:37:34,701 --> 00:37:36,701
Speaker 1: to you and said, set me up with someone, but

803
00:37:36,822 --> 00:37:38,341
Speaker 1: she was sort of a coworker that you didn't know

804
00:37:38,462 --> 00:37:41,181
Speaker 1: very well, just say, like, I could ask you that, Like,

805
00:37:41,221 --> 00:37:43,341
Speaker 1: if I needed to be set up with someone, you're

806
00:37:43,382 --> 00:37:45,622
Speaker 1: an example of a weak tie. You're someone I'm friendly with,

807
00:37:45,701 --> 00:37:48,102
Speaker 1: but I don't know all your friends, And I could say,

808
00:37:48,181 --> 00:37:50,502
Speaker 1: set me up with someone, and you go, you'd rifle

809
00:37:50,582 --> 00:37:52,342
Speaker 1: through them, and I guarantee that you could think of

810
00:37:52,382 --> 00:37:54,741
Speaker 1: at least one person that you'd at least try and

811
00:37:54,781 --> 00:37:55,542
Speaker 1: set me up. Yeah.

812
00:37:55,622 --> 00:37:58,062
Speaker 3: I set a friend, a male friend up with a

813
00:37:58,102 --> 00:38:00,942
Speaker 3: an acquaintance, a female acquaintance who I really liked. I

814
00:38:00,982 --> 00:38:03,462
Speaker 3: would have liked to be friends with her, and I

815
00:38:03,502 --> 00:38:05,421
Speaker 3: set them up and he didn't trade her very well,

816
00:38:05,502 --> 00:38:09,342
Speaker 3: and then she never really.

817
00:38:08,142 --> 00:38:08,862
Speaker 4: That's the problem.

818
00:38:08,902 --> 00:38:11,741
Speaker 1: That's the problem. Like another caveat here is if you

819
00:38:11,822 --> 00:38:14,142
Speaker 1: do ask a week tie to set you up, you

820
00:38:14,221 --> 00:38:17,181
Speaker 1: cannot blame the weak tie for what happens on that day.

821
00:38:17,422 --> 00:38:20,181
Speaker 1: You cannot blame them. It's not up to them. You

822
00:38:20,302 --> 00:38:21,142
Speaker 1: insisted on it.

823
00:38:21,342 --> 00:38:22,502
Speaker 4: Okay, back to this woman.

824
00:38:22,622 --> 00:38:26,222
Speaker 1: So here's why I'm a big fan. Weddings are nothing

825
00:38:26,382 --> 00:38:29,982
Speaker 1: but weak ties. Nothing but weak ties at weddings. Oh yeah,

826
00:38:30,022 --> 00:38:32,422
Speaker 1: that's my friend's friend who I met once at a

827
00:38:32,462 --> 00:38:37,221
Speaker 1: twenty first fifteen years ago. I vaguely remember this situation.

828
00:38:37,781 --> 00:38:39,942
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's my like, you know, the person I

829
00:38:40,022 --> 00:38:42,341
Speaker 1: played tennis with once. So I don't know very well.

830
00:38:42,462 --> 00:38:44,462
Speaker 1: Weddings are weak ties in action.

831
00:38:44,701 --> 00:38:45,062
Speaker 4: Okay.

832
00:38:45,342 --> 00:38:48,022
Speaker 2: The problem with what this woman did. It would have

833
00:38:48,022 --> 00:38:50,901
Speaker 2: been so fine if she'd have asked her friends if

834
00:38:50,902 --> 00:38:52,422
Speaker 2: they wanted to, because I think you said to me Lee,

835
00:38:52,502 --> 00:38:54,022
Speaker 2: you had a singles table at your wedding.

836
00:38:53,902 --> 00:38:55,782
Speaker 1: But it was opped in, So I had an opt

837
00:38:55,781 --> 00:38:58,181
Speaker 1: in singles table at my wedding. It did result in

838
00:38:58,221 --> 00:39:01,102
Speaker 1: one liaison, that's Nue, which I think is pretty good.

839
00:39:01,142 --> 00:39:04,142
Speaker 2: But the problem with this is because she has basically

840
00:39:04,142 --> 00:39:05,822
Speaker 2: put a poster up at a wedding.

841
00:39:05,942 --> 00:39:09,661
Speaker 4: It's like, look at all these single losers, that's what

842
00:39:09,741 --> 00:39:10,022
Speaker 4: she has.

843
00:39:10,462 --> 00:39:12,981
Speaker 2: She has because she didn't ask, because the thing about

844
00:39:12,982 --> 00:39:15,381
Speaker 2: being single, And like you, Amelia, I spent a lot

845
00:39:15,422 --> 00:39:17,422
Speaker 2: of years going to my friend's weddings when I was single,

846
00:39:18,022 --> 00:39:19,982
Speaker 2: and I didn't always want to be fixed up. I

847
00:39:19,982 --> 00:39:22,542
Speaker 2: definitely didn't like, sometimes you're single, but it's okay.

848
00:39:24,382 --> 00:39:25,261
Speaker 4: But this is what I mean.

849
00:39:25,302 --> 00:39:28,261
Speaker 2: It's like she's assuming a that all these people are

850
00:39:28,261 --> 00:39:32,342
Speaker 2: miserable and lonely just because they're single. Alie, she's assuming

851
00:39:32,382 --> 00:39:36,462
Speaker 2: that they're all comfortable with having their relationship status being advertised.

852
00:39:36,622 --> 00:39:38,941
Speaker 4: If you ask, it's okay. But if you don't, I'm going.

853
00:39:38,942 --> 00:39:41,221
Speaker 1: To throw this back at you. You were assuming that

854
00:39:41,302 --> 00:39:43,981
Speaker 1: there is a stigma to being single, and I think

855
00:39:44,022 --> 00:39:44,822
Speaker 1: that's on you.

856
00:39:44,822 --> 00:39:47,222
Speaker 2: No, I'm not assuming that at all. When I was single,

857
00:39:47,261 --> 00:39:48,942
Speaker 2: I was not all the time on the hunt. That

858
00:39:49,062 --> 00:39:49,861
Speaker 2: is not what I was doing.

859
00:39:49,902 --> 00:39:50,421
Speaker 4: And so if my.

860
00:39:50,422 --> 00:39:53,341
Speaker 1: Fritimes you were just like, no, I'm just like, genuinely

861
00:39:53,382 --> 00:39:56,142
Speaker 1: not even interested in the perfect Sometimes.

862
00:39:55,701 --> 00:39:59,142
Speaker 2: I was maybe I was secretly seeing someone who knows,

863
00:39:59,142 --> 00:40:01,741
Speaker 2: but or maybe I was happy being single. You're all

864
00:40:01,781 --> 00:40:04,502
Speaker 2: assuming that all the single people are not happy being single.

865
00:40:04,741 --> 00:40:06,502
Speaker 3: I completely disagree with you, Holley.

866
00:40:06,701 --> 00:40:07,422
Speaker 4: This was this.

867
00:40:07,622 --> 00:40:10,022
Speaker 2: All the people who said I would be here amliated.

868
00:40:10,181 --> 00:40:12,782
Speaker 2: That's why, because maybe they don't want to advertise their

869
00:40:12,822 --> 00:40:14,301
Speaker 2: personal lives to all people.

870
00:40:14,422 --> 00:40:18,501
Speaker 3: They don't see singleedom as totally neutral. I don't think

871
00:40:18,582 --> 00:40:21,662
Speaker 3: it's there's a stigma. I don't think that I judge anyone.

872
00:40:21,781 --> 00:40:23,582
Speaker 2: It's just the need their faces on a poster at

873
00:40:23,622 --> 00:40:24,261
Speaker 2: a wedding.

874
00:40:24,142 --> 00:40:27,821
Speaker 1: Because the others can identify them more like a big

875
00:40:28,342 --> 00:40:32,221
Speaker 1: like wear a special hat, wear a particular color, turn

876
00:40:32,261 --> 00:40:33,982
Speaker 1: your pineapple upside down.

877
00:40:34,102 --> 00:40:36,542
Speaker 4: Like maybe they don't want to be identified.

878
00:40:36,542 --> 00:40:38,582
Speaker 2: It just reminds me of that scene in Bridget Jones

879
00:40:38,582 --> 00:40:39,102
Speaker 2: where they're.

880
00:40:39,022 --> 00:40:41,341
Speaker 4: Like, why haven't you met anybody yet? And she's like, well,

881
00:40:41,382 --> 00:40:43,102
Speaker 4: the scales beneath my clothes.

882
00:40:43,142 --> 00:40:43,982
Speaker 2: It's like that.

883
00:40:44,342 --> 00:40:48,341
Speaker 3: No, I don't think anything about this poster suggests that

884
00:40:48,741 --> 00:40:51,741
Speaker 3: you need to mingle, or that she expects you to

885
00:40:51,741 --> 00:40:53,422
Speaker 3: go on a date, or that she thinks you're desperate,

886
00:40:53,542 --> 00:40:56,502
Speaker 3: or that she thinks you need her help. Let's remember

887
00:40:56,582 --> 00:40:58,942
Speaker 3: that one of the biggest traditions.

888
00:40:58,622 --> 00:41:01,262
Speaker 2: Face on a poster around a wedding.

889
00:41:02,102 --> 00:41:05,181
Speaker 3: Let's remember that what weddings traditionally do like and I

890
00:41:05,221 --> 00:41:09,582
Speaker 3: didn't do any of this, but the boquetos right doing that.

891
00:41:09,781 --> 00:41:13,342
Speaker 3: No one's doing it, but there has always at weddings

892
00:41:13,582 --> 00:41:17,782
Speaker 3: been a tradition around identifying single people.

893
00:41:17,862 --> 00:41:20,421
Speaker 2: And so when you're singling a wedding, it's awful because

894
00:41:20,462 --> 00:41:25,982
Speaker 2: you know, maybe you'll coach and bouquet.

895
00:41:25,822 --> 00:41:30,102
Speaker 1: Also an opportunity, lean in the opportunity.

896
00:41:30,342 --> 00:41:32,221
Speaker 3: I've been sat at a singles table. I sat an

897
00:41:32,221 --> 00:41:34,422
Speaker 3: extra guy I knew within two minutes I wasn't interested in.

898
00:41:34,622 --> 00:41:37,461
Speaker 3: We had a lovely chat. I was quite isolated at

899
00:41:37,462 --> 00:41:39,182
Speaker 3: this wedding because I didn't know a lot of people.

900
00:41:39,622 --> 00:41:42,062
Speaker 3: I didn't have a plus one because I didn't deserve

901
00:41:42,102 --> 00:41:44,542
Speaker 3: a plus one, and I wasn't in a relationship whatever. Like,

902
00:41:44,781 --> 00:41:47,662
Speaker 3: I think it's a way to just have people mingle

903
00:41:47,862 --> 00:41:49,821
Speaker 3: and I don't see an issue with that.

904
00:41:49,942 --> 00:41:51,742
Speaker 1: It's making the most of weak time.

905
00:41:52,142 --> 00:41:54,622
Speaker 4: Yeah, only with consent.

906
00:41:56,741 --> 00:42:00,341
Speaker 2: Leonardo DiCaprio has been interviewed by the director of his

907
00:42:00,502 --> 00:42:04,181
Speaker 2: new movie movie is called One Battle after Another, which.

908
00:42:05,062 --> 00:42:07,301
Speaker 3: That man makes exclusively good movie and I will not

909
00:42:07,342 --> 00:42:09,661
Speaker 3: hear a word against him.

910
00:42:08,781 --> 00:42:13,622
Speaker 2: All sounds like it sounds like life, It sounds like everything.

911
00:42:13,781 --> 00:42:17,182
Speaker 2: It sounds like twenty twenty five anyway. Paul Thomas Anderson

912
00:42:17,221 --> 00:42:19,102
Speaker 2: is the director. He's very famous, very fancy, and he

913
00:42:19,142 --> 00:42:21,382
Speaker 2: was interviewing Leonardo for a squire and among all the

914
00:42:21,422 --> 00:42:24,741
Speaker 2: actually chit chat they had, Anderson asks him, I'm going

915
00:42:24,781 --> 00:42:26,301
Speaker 2: to ask you a question and you're gonna have to

916
00:42:26,302 --> 00:42:28,341
Speaker 2: answer as quickly as you can. If you didn't know

917
00:42:28,422 --> 00:42:30,981
Speaker 2: how old you are, how old are you right now?

918
00:42:30,982 --> 00:42:36,262
Speaker 2: DiCaprio just says thirty two. DiCaprio is fifty. Everybody, Jesse

919
00:42:36,582 --> 00:42:40,622
Speaker 2: the internet went wild. Why why might anybody be interested

920
00:42:40,781 --> 00:42:45,142
Speaker 2: in how old Leonardo DiCaprio is as opposed to how

921
00:42:45,181 --> 00:42:45,902
Speaker 2: he feels.

922
00:42:46,022 --> 00:42:47,862
Speaker 4: I can't imagine, can you imagine? Well?

923
00:42:48,102 --> 00:42:51,341
Speaker 3: I imagine that this is a jab at the age of

924
00:42:51,382 --> 00:42:53,542
Speaker 3: the women that he dates, because he famously when they

925
00:42:53,582 --> 00:42:56,301
Speaker 3: turn twenty five, he's like, see ya, I'm trading you

926
00:42:56,342 --> 00:42:57,382
Speaker 3: in for a younger one.

927
00:42:57,221 --> 00:42:57,821
Speaker 4: His new one.

928
00:42:57,902 --> 00:42:59,661
Speaker 2: Well it's actually she's not that new. But his current

929
00:42:59,661 --> 00:43:03,501
Speaker 2: girlfriend is twenty seven. Oh wow, so he's broken.

930
00:43:03,181 --> 00:43:05,302
Speaker 3: The hoodoo oh my, oh my goodness.

931
00:43:05,382 --> 00:43:06,382
Speaker 4: But still he's fifty.

932
00:43:06,622 --> 00:43:09,781
Speaker 3: But I think there is something profoundly relatable about what

933
00:43:09,942 --> 00:43:13,542
Speaker 3: Leonardo DiCaprio is saying, because there is this phenomenon of

934
00:43:13,822 --> 00:43:17,062
Speaker 3: as you grow older not feeling your age. I remember

935
00:43:17,102 --> 00:43:19,542
Speaker 3: there was this Atlantic article about it years ago. But

936
00:43:19,582 --> 00:43:22,661
Speaker 3: there's also this really famous quote by a poet named

937
00:43:22,741 --> 00:43:26,301
Speaker 3: George Open, and he says, what a strange thing to

938
00:43:26,382 --> 00:43:28,942
Speaker 3: happen to a little boy. He's talking about aging, and

939
00:43:29,022 --> 00:43:32,502
Speaker 3: he says that as he gets older, he looks in

940
00:43:32,502 --> 00:43:34,901
Speaker 3: the mirror and there's a little boy inside, but he's

941
00:43:34,942 --> 00:43:38,382
Speaker 3: got these wrinkled hands and this face that isn't consistent

942
00:43:38,462 --> 00:43:41,381
Speaker 3: with how he feels. And I was reading this. It's

943
00:43:41,422 --> 00:43:44,782
Speaker 3: this substacle about kind of ideas about aging. And another

944
00:43:44,781 --> 00:43:48,221
Speaker 3: one says that if you're a young person and you're

945
00:43:48,221 --> 00:43:51,661
Speaker 3: talking to an older person, you should know that to you,

946
00:43:52,382 --> 00:43:54,821
Speaker 3: that person who's way older, right, But to the older person,

947
00:43:54,862 --> 00:43:58,102
Speaker 3: they probably feel exactly your age. And how do you

948
00:43:58,221 --> 00:43:58,462
Speaker 3: show you?

949
00:43:58,701 --> 00:44:03,701
Speaker 2: What you're saying is leon ardas twenty seven year old

950
00:44:03,741 --> 00:44:05,542
Speaker 2: girlfriend and the twenty four year old girlfriend before that,

951
00:44:05,582 --> 00:44:07,181
Speaker 2: and the twenty four year old girlfriend before.

952
00:44:07,862 --> 00:44:09,182
Speaker 1: He's got a last week ties.

953
00:44:10,142 --> 00:44:13,741
Speaker 2: They think that Leo's just a little bit older than them. No, no,

954
00:44:13,822 --> 00:44:15,941
Speaker 2: they think that is quite a lot older than them.

955
00:44:15,942 --> 00:44:18,661
Speaker 2: But Leo thinks that he is the same age as them.

956
00:44:18,701 --> 00:44:21,662
Speaker 3: He's like, I just turned thirty. I turned thirty last week, Holly,

957
00:44:21,701 --> 00:44:22,502
Speaker 3: how old do you feel?

958
00:44:23,942 --> 00:44:26,102
Speaker 2: I think I feel forty. I would like to feel thirty,

959
00:44:26,542 --> 00:44:27,862
Speaker 2: but I think I feel forty.

960
00:44:27,902 --> 00:44:30,182
Speaker 3: I read something that said that people get stuck at forty,

961
00:44:30,382 --> 00:44:31,062
Speaker 3: like that's a thing.

962
00:44:31,261 --> 00:44:35,781
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely understand what Leo's talking about, in the

963
00:44:35,862 --> 00:44:38,501
Speaker 2: fact that as you get, like, fifty is a big number,

964
00:44:38,661 --> 00:44:41,622
Speaker 2: and I'm just just over fifty these days, and it

965
00:44:41,701 --> 00:44:44,701
Speaker 2: is sometimes confronting, like jolting to be like whoa, and

966
00:44:44,741 --> 00:44:47,142
Speaker 2: when people relate to you in a way that makes

967
00:44:47,181 --> 00:44:50,502
Speaker 2: it clear that they think you're significantly older, and you

968
00:44:50,542 --> 00:44:53,022
Speaker 2: do think light Leo does. And I'm just down hanging

969
00:44:53,022 --> 00:44:54,902
Speaker 2: out with my hot girlfriend and we like all the

970
00:44:54,942 --> 00:44:56,902
Speaker 2: same things and she and I are on TikTok and

971
00:44:56,942 --> 00:45:00,742
Speaker 2: it's great, Like I understand it. But if I was Leo,

972
00:45:01,422 --> 00:45:03,461
Speaker 2: I think I'd be a little more self aware about

973
00:45:03,502 --> 00:45:07,341
Speaker 2: that answer, don't you think? Oh no, no, Because Leo

974
00:45:07,542 --> 00:45:09,301
Speaker 2: is just one of the latest line of the gen

975
00:45:09,422 --> 00:45:12,942
Speaker 2: x Icons who perpetually disappoints me. Like he was so cool,

976
00:45:13,181 --> 00:45:16,542
Speaker 2: he was so cool, and now he's just hanging out

977
00:45:16,542 --> 00:45:19,902
Speaker 2: with Jeff Bezos flying around on private jets going to

978
00:45:19,982 --> 00:45:22,422
Speaker 2: those kind of weddings. He and all the others that

979
00:45:22,542 --> 00:45:24,982
Speaker 2: either dating the terrified of women their own age, or

980
00:45:25,022 --> 00:45:27,301
Speaker 2: at least women who look their own age. Bezos his

981
00:45:27,661 --> 00:45:30,622
Speaker 2: wife Lauren Sanchez, is older, but she certainly doesn't look

982
00:45:30,622 --> 00:45:35,142
Speaker 2: at They've just become such laughable cliches of the men

983
00:45:35,181 --> 00:45:38,462
Speaker 2: who never grow up. And wouldn't it be more interesting

984
00:45:38,582 --> 00:45:40,982
Speaker 2: if he was like, I feel every one of my

985
00:45:41,261 --> 00:45:44,782
Speaker 2: fifty years, but I still like twenty seven year old Underwell,

986
00:45:44,781 --> 00:45:46,022
Speaker 2: that's not true, though, Amelia.

987
00:45:46,062 --> 00:45:46,942
Speaker 3: How old do you feel?

988
00:45:47,142 --> 00:45:49,502
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel about thirty five. I think it's hard

989
00:45:49,542 --> 00:45:52,142
Speaker 1: to feel your age as you get older. One thing

990
00:45:52,261 --> 00:45:54,901
Speaker 1: that made me think about is do you think that

991
00:45:55,062 --> 00:45:58,022
Speaker 1: people can lie about their age in the age of

992
00:45:58,062 --> 00:46:01,221
Speaker 1: the Internet and radical transparency anymore? Because I have one

993
00:46:01,302 --> 00:46:03,582
Speaker 1: person in my life who I obviously am not going

994
00:46:03,661 --> 00:46:05,542
Speaker 1: to get into the details of who it is, I'm

995
00:46:05,582 --> 00:46:08,502
Speaker 1: pretty sure that person has shaved a year off their

996
00:46:08,542 --> 00:46:12,741
Speaker 1: age between the end of forty and fifty one year is.

997
00:46:12,661 --> 00:46:14,301
Speaker 4: A very specific shave to do.

998
00:46:14,622 --> 00:46:16,661
Speaker 1: Well, maybe they're going to do one for each decade

999
00:46:16,741 --> 00:46:19,341
Speaker 1: going forward, but I just think it's much harder these

1000
00:46:19,422 --> 00:46:20,462
Speaker 1: days than it used to be.

1001
00:46:20,502 --> 00:46:22,982
Speaker 2: I understand why women do it one hundred percent and men.

1002
00:46:23,022 --> 00:46:26,182
Speaker 2: I guess I'm not Leonard DiCaprio, but I'm quite tempted

1003
00:46:26,221 --> 00:46:27,421
Speaker 2: to like about my age now.

1004
00:46:27,582 --> 00:46:28,702
Speaker 4: Quite really, I'd.

1005
00:46:28,622 --> 00:46:31,102
Speaker 2: Quite like to just stay at fifty. Yeah, and just

1006
00:46:31,422 --> 00:46:34,341
Speaker 2: or rather never talk about it, just because like it

1007
00:46:34,422 --> 00:46:36,502
Speaker 2: or not. We live in a very age of society,

1008
00:46:36,741 --> 00:46:39,582
Speaker 2: and you can be working really hard to try and

1009
00:46:39,622 --> 00:46:43,261
Speaker 2: reclaim that, but there's something you're fighting against that is

1010
00:46:43,302 --> 00:46:45,062
Speaker 2: almost important, and it's not just about how you look.

1011
00:46:45,102 --> 00:46:47,382
Speaker 2: It's about lots of things. So I'm quite tempted to

1012
00:46:47,422 --> 00:46:50,181
Speaker 2: stick at fifty. I interviewed someone recently who refused to

1013
00:46:50,181 --> 00:46:52,781
Speaker 2: tell me how old. They were, just absolutely refused, and

1014
00:46:52,822 --> 00:46:55,022
Speaker 2: I followed up to ask, and they still said, no,

1015
00:46:55,102 --> 00:46:57,342
Speaker 2: I don't talk about it because it immediately pigeonholes me

1016
00:46:57,382 --> 00:46:59,142
Speaker 2: and I don't want to do that, and so I

1017
00:46:59,221 --> 00:46:59,622
Speaker 2: get it.

1018
00:47:00,181 --> 00:47:04,022
Speaker 1: I've also heard that the age you are, you can't

1019
00:47:04,102 --> 00:47:07,982
Speaker 1: tell the age accurately of anyone below your age, but

1020
00:47:08,022 --> 00:47:10,702
Speaker 1: you can continue to tell it for people above your age,

1021
00:47:10,781 --> 00:47:12,741
Speaker 1: and that's certainly true. I went back to my high

1022
00:47:12,781 --> 00:47:17,222
Speaker 1: school last week for a career's night and I'm pretty

1023
00:47:17,261 --> 00:47:20,301
Speaker 1: sure that the questions people were asking me kind of

1024
00:47:20,342 --> 00:47:22,741
Speaker 1: insinuated that they thought I was on the verge of retirement.

1025
00:47:23,142 --> 00:47:26,462
Speaker 1: I think everyone who's like over the age of thirty

1026
00:47:26,542 --> 00:47:29,462
Speaker 1: to a young person is probably seventy.

1027
00:47:30,862 --> 00:47:35,661
Speaker 2: Poor Leo girlfriend thinks he's seventy. She's like, why are

1028
00:47:35,701 --> 00:47:37,741
Speaker 2: you still making those movies? When are we going to

1029
00:47:37,781 --> 00:47:39,502
Speaker 2: just going to be on the yacht twenty four to seven?

1030
00:47:39,822 --> 00:47:40,542
Speaker 3: Are you going to die?

1031
00:47:40,582 --> 00:47:41,102
Speaker 4: Certain, Leah.

1032
00:47:42,822 --> 00:47:46,381
Speaker 3: If you've been thinking about becoming a Muma Mea subscriber,

1033
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1034
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1035
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Speaker 3: annual Muma Mea membership. That's just for new subscribers. So

1036
00:47:56,502 --> 00:47:59,062
Speaker 3: subscribe to Momma Mea via the link in our show

1037
00:47:59,102 --> 00:48:02,542
Speaker 3: notes and you can use the code give back out

1038
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Speaker 3: Loud or one word.

1039
00:48:03,902 --> 00:48:05,261
Speaker 4: But here's the really good bit.

1040
00:48:05,302 --> 00:48:08,102
Speaker 2: We're going to match that twenty percent discount and donate

1041
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Speaker 2: it to Rise Up, which is an incredible Australian charity

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Speaker 2: not only are you getting access to all US subscriber

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Speaker 2: also helping us support families who really need it.

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Speaker 3: You've got until Sunday, the twenty fourth of August to

1047
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Speaker 3: be part of this, so don't miss out.

1048
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Speaker 2: That's all we've got time for today, out louders, thank

1049
00:48:31,342 --> 00:48:33,741
Speaker 2: you for being with us on this Monday as always,

1050
00:48:33,741 --> 00:48:35,862
Speaker 2: and thank you to our brilliant team for putting the

1051
00:48:35,902 --> 00:48:36,542
Speaker 2: show together.

1052
00:48:36,862 --> 00:48:38,942
Speaker 3: We will be back in your ears tomorrow, and of

1053
00:48:38,982 --> 00:48:41,382
Speaker 3: course you can watch us just like our friend Taylor,

1054
00:48:41,422 --> 00:48:42,822
Speaker 3: you can watch us on YouTube.

1055
00:48:43,502 --> 00:48:46,221
Speaker 2: Will you gaze at me lovingly? Actually, I gaze at

1056
00:48:46,261 --> 00:48:46,902
Speaker 2: you loving me, and go.

1057
00:48:46,982 --> 00:48:48,782
Speaker 3: Like I love it when she says those long words,

1058
00:48:50,422 --> 00:48:55,142
Speaker 3: You're so smart. You're so smart. Bye Bye. Shout out

1059
00:48:55,142 --> 00:48:57,661
Speaker 3: to any Mum and me A subscribers listening. If you

1060
00:48:57,701 --> 00:49:00,421
Speaker 3: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing

1061
00:49:00,462 --> 00:49:02,701
Speaker 3: to Mom and Mia is the very best way to

1062
00:49:02,781 --> 00:49:05,181
Speaker 3: do so. There's a link in the episode description

1063
00:49:09,982 --> 00:49:13,181
Speaker 2: The play The ban Dog Back cock Tack Cook