Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. We pay our respects
Speaker 2: to elders past, present and emerging, and feel privileged to
Speaker 2: continue the sharing of birth stories and knowledge that has
Speaker 2: been a fundamental part of Indigenous culture.
Speaker 3: Hi. I'm Cassnya Lukic and this is diary of a birth.
Speaker 3: Many of us go through life until we first fell pregnant,
Speaker 3: scared of childbirth. We want the baby, but we wish
Speaker 3: there was an easier way for them to come out.
Speaker 3: That's true of today's mum. Her story has all the
Speaker 3: twists and turns.
Speaker 4: And he went silent for a very long time and
Speaker 4: then made some noises that were like ooh h, which
Speaker 4: is not what you want to hear from the person.
Speaker 4: We they needle in your back.
Speaker 3: This mum went through an exhausting and sometimes terrifying experience.
Speaker 4: I couldn't interpret what he was saying. I thought, Oh
Speaker 4: my gosh, I'm the one in a million that is paralyzed.
Speaker 4: That's something horrible has happened here, and something irreversible, And
Speaker 4: how is it that that could happen to me? And
Speaker 4: my partner turned to me and said, like, just you know,
Speaker 4: you're allowed to think about it. And I turned to
Speaker 4: him and I said, my chainsaw to get the baby out.
Speaker 4: I would do that, but it was all worth it.
Speaker 3: By the time she had her beautiful baby in arms
Speaker 3: and spoiler alert, no chainsaws necessary.
Speaker 4: She had done a pooh on her way out, and
Speaker 4: I had vomited all over myself. I remember her looking
Speaker 4: up at me and looking into her eyes, and we've
Speaker 4: got the cutest little photos of those moments afterwards where
Speaker 4: we can tell. We always joke that she was looking
Speaker 4: at me being like, mum, was I the drama? And
Speaker 4: it's like, yes, you were the drama.
Speaker 3: So let's meet today's supermum. Hi.
Speaker 4: My name is Claire Stevens and this is the diary
Speaker 4: of my birth with Matila.
Speaker 3: So, before falling pregnant, Claire was quite career focused, rising
Speaker 3: through the ranks of Mamma Mia, and she'd been with
Speaker 3: her partner for over a decade.
Speaker 5: I was quite career focused.
Speaker 4: I had been with my partner for about twelve thirteen,
Speaker 4: fourteen years, a very long time since I was about eighteen.
Speaker 4: So we had always known that we wanted kids. And
Speaker 4: we were just kind of focused on career and establishing
Speaker 4: our lives, I guess. And then we got married and
Speaker 4: decided we wanted to start trying, and just a few
Speaker 4: months later we were pregnant.
Speaker 5: So very lucky.
Speaker 3: Claire's pregnancy presented some challenges.
Speaker 4: Pregnancy was pretty awful. I was not a lovely pregnant woman.
Speaker 4: It was very healthy. I am very, very grateful for
Speaker 4: how healthy it was. I was just anxious the whole
Speaker 4: time that something would go wrong. I'd had what my
Speaker 4: doctor thought was like a missed miscarriage the first month
Speaker 4: or second month we started trying, and so I think
Speaker 4: I had in the back of my head that something
Speaker 4: was going to go wrong. And I have a bit
Speaker 4: of health anxiety anyway, so I was convinced I was
Speaker 4: gonna have preclampsyr or placenta, previa, or any of the
Speaker 4: above things that would make pregnancy a nightmare. So I
Speaker 4: was anxious, and my mental health generally wasn't great, and
Speaker 4: for me, the pregnancy hormones were the ones that messed
Speaker 4: with my head a little bit.
Speaker 3: Having anxiety in pregnancy is very common. I had it.
Speaker 3: I was constantly terrified I was going to lose my
Speaker 3: first baby, particularly after those months and months and months
Speaker 3: of IVF, and it's not often discussed. Claire took steps
Speaker 3: to help herself through it.
Speaker 4: I think I slowed down a little bit with work.
Speaker 4: I took the pressure off with a few things, pushed
Speaker 4: a few big projects back instead of kind of running
Speaker 4: full throttle until the day I gave birth. I thought, no,
Speaker 4: that's just not the stage of life that I'm in
Speaker 4: at the moment. I need to look after myself, and
Speaker 4: I was very aware that I didn't want to go
Speaker 4: into birth burnt out. So I slowed down a lot
Speaker 4: and saw a psychologist and a psychiatrist and played around
Speaker 4: with medication and stuff, which helped.
Speaker 3: Towards the end of her pregnancy, Claire started looking ahead
Speaker 3: to the big event.
Speaker 4: I had a bit of a funny expectation of birth
Speaker 4: because my twin sister had given birth five or six
Speaker 4: months earlier and had had an excellent birth, and I
Speaker 4: think I was a bit biased in thinking, well, you know,
Speaker 4: similar physiology, maybe I'll be lucky enough to have that
Speaker 4: as well. And at the same time, I was very
Speaker 4: aware that that belief was not a positive one, that
Speaker 4: I needed to accept that my birth if nothing else,
Speaker 4: was going to be completely.
Speaker 5: Different, because that's what birth is.
Speaker 4: So I'd been anxious about about childbirth and had done
Speaker 4: all the birthing classes and spoken to my doctor and
Speaker 4: had gone through all sorts of things. The baby was
Speaker 4: big for my body, they thought, so. The obstrician had
Speaker 4: sort of suggested that there might be a need for
Speaker 4: a C section, but I was like, no, I think
Speaker 4: I want to try. I want to try for vaginal birth.
Speaker 4: But yeah, towards the end, I thought, I'm going to
Speaker 4: try and get into the right headspace. I'm going to
Speaker 4: do hypno birthing and read books and all of that.
Speaker 4: So I did like hypno birthing affirmations, I was listening
Speaker 4: to podcasts. I was getting fully into it, thinking I'm
Speaker 4: going to try my very best to control what i
Speaker 4: can about this. And in hindsight, I don't know anyone
Speaker 4: who's listening to this and is pregnant and feels guilty
Speaker 4: that they're not doing the things they should be doing.
Speaker 5: There's nothing you should be doing, like you can't control.
Speaker 4: I kind of think raw doging to our birth might
Speaker 4: be the way to go.
Speaker 5: You can definitely over prepare.
Speaker 3: Claire's obstric had suggested getting induced at thirty nine weeks
Speaker 3: due to research that suggests that it might be the
Speaker 3: best way for her to have a vaginal birth thanks
Speaker 3: to lower intervention, So she had an induction booked in
Speaker 3: for a Tuesday.
Speaker 5: Well, it was odd.
Speaker 4: So my obstrition had suggested getting induced because she thought
Speaker 4: that might be the best way to have a vaginal birth.
Speaker 4: She thought, at thirty nine weeks, there's all this new research,
Speaker 4: there's a lower risk of intervention. And I was meant
Speaker 4: to be induced on say, I think a Tuesday, and
Speaker 4: that morning, at like five am, my waters broke. So
Speaker 4: it was like Matilda knew and she thought, eh, I'm
Speaker 4: gonna come anyway. And I could tell that it was
Speaker 4: my waters. I didn't notice a feeling. I just went
Speaker 4: to the bathroom and went, oh, there, it is like
Speaker 4: it's sort of I instinctively kind of knew that that's
Speaker 4: sort it was. But I knew from all my research
Speaker 4: that you had to go to hospital because once your
Speaker 4: waters break.
Speaker 5: You're on a bit of a timeline in terms of infection.
Speaker 4: So I went to hospital and they confirmed, yes, your
Speaker 4: waters have broken. You're having some light contractions, but go home.
Speaker 4: And labor at home because you'll progress faster and come back.
Speaker 3: Claire was keen to follow her obstetricians advice, so Claire
Speaker 3: went home, keen to labor there for as long as
Speaker 3: possible as that was where she felt most comfortable.
Speaker 4: I thought, Okay, I am going to labor at home
Speaker 4: for as long as possible because I know that's where
Speaker 4: I feel comfortable.
Speaker 5: So I had an.
Speaker 4: Exercise ball that I was bouncing on. I was reading
Speaker 4: a book. I still can't return to that book.
Speaker 5: I've never finished it.
Speaker 4: I just weirdly I read like a few chapters and
Speaker 4: then yeah, I think I'll leave that unread. There was
Speaker 4: a huge storm, I remember, so Rory and I tried
Speaker 4: to have a nap, but our window ended up breaking
Speaker 4: in and the curtain fell down, and it was just
Speaker 4: absolutely wild storm, which apparently the drop in barometric pressure
Speaker 4: from the storm often breaks women's waters. The maternity ward
Speaker 4: was full when I went in, and yeah, I've met
Speaker 4: a lot of people who had babies at the same
Speaker 4: time and they say that it's because of the storm.
Speaker 4: So I just kind of tried to do all the affirmations.
Speaker 4: I was in the bath for a long time. The
Speaker 4: contractions took a while to kick in and were kind
Speaker 4: of slowed to ramp up. But one thing I did do,
Speaker 4: because oxytocin is meant to be really important in like
Speaker 4: fueling labor, I hung out with my sister's baby and
Speaker 4: kept sniffing her because I was like, you are the
Speaker 4: best sols of oxytocin for me. I was like, come on,
Speaker 4: start those contractions. So I did a lot of sniffing her.
Speaker 4: Went to bed that night. My partner slept. I was like,
Speaker 4: get as much sleep as you can. I couldn't sleep.
Speaker 4: I tossed and turned again, and the contractions ramped up overnight,
Speaker 4: which they say biologically happens like as it gets darker
Speaker 4: and at night time that's kind of when things seem
Speaker 4: to ramp up. And then they slowed down a bit
Speaker 4: during the day, So overnight contractions really ramped up. And
Speaker 4: I remember looking at my phone and thinking, just wait
Speaker 4: till five am. Wait till five am, and then you
Speaker 4: can wait rory when we can go. For some reason,
Speaker 4: I wanted to wait till five am. I wanted like
Speaker 4: an arbitrary marker because I wasn't confident about my own
Speaker 4: pain threshold. I was like I am very aware I'm
Speaker 4: not having this baby right now, but I also don't
Speaker 4: want to be in a whole lot of pain and
Speaker 4: feel out of control. The contractions slowed down a little
Speaker 4: bit on the way to hospital, which can happen when
Speaker 4: you're kind of out of your safety zone, and I
Speaker 4: was a bit like, no, I want them to believe
Speaker 4: me that I was in a lot of pain, Like
Speaker 4: I don't want them.
Speaker 5: To know that I was telling the truth.
Speaker 4: But I had a few solid ones. I also had
Speaker 4: the tens machine on at that point, and that was
Speaker 4: a good distraction if nothing else, just to have a
Speaker 4: button to press and a zap going through you to
Speaker 4: distract you from a horrible contraction.
Speaker 3: Arriving at the hospital knowing this is it this time,
Speaker 3: I'm going to walk out of here with a baby
Speaker 3: is a huge overwhelming feeling.
Speaker 4: So I got to the hospital, walked in to the ward,
Speaker 4: and burst into tears. Mostly I think it was a
Speaker 4: combination of sleep deprivation and the contractions, because by that
Speaker 4: point I already hadn't slept in two nights, and they
Speaker 4: hadn't even really gone into proper labor birth all of that.
Speaker 5: So I just burst into tears.
Speaker 4: And the most beautiful midwife took me and was like,
Speaker 4: we are going to get you an ampydur or we
Speaker 4: are going to get you comfortable. This is all going
Speaker 4: to be fine, and that was incredible. She was an
Speaker 4: ab salute saint. And I remember I was so sleep
Speaker 4: deprived already that I put the gown on the wrong
Speaker 4: way so it was open at the front because I
Speaker 4: was like, well, I guess you're gonna need like access
Speaker 4: to my badge and she was like, honey, wrong way,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, this is the first time I've ever
Speaker 4: worn a hospital gown. I've ever been in hospital. I've
Speaker 4: never spent a night in hospital. So yeah, by that point,
Speaker 4: I was like, get the epidural in me. I had
Speaker 4: absolutely no anxiety about the epidural. I'm not particularly scared
Speaker 4: of needles. I've known lots and lots of people who
Speaker 4: have got epidurals. And when the anetheist came in, I
Speaker 4: was fine. I was like, get it in me, and
Speaker 4: we had Christmas carols playing and he was happy and
Speaker 4: joking about unwrapping the needles and it all being like
Speaker 4: unwrapping Christmas presents, and then he did the epidural, and
Speaker 4: my memory. It's funny what your memory kind of erases
Speaker 4: months and months down the track. But when he put
Speaker 4: it in, he said, ye can't move, You've got to
Speaker 4: be completely still, and I was like, yep. And where
Speaker 4: he put it, I'd had really bad sciatica throughout pregnancy
Speaker 4: and it felt like it hit my sciatic nerve, so
Speaker 4: I flinched. I fully leg went up in the air
Speaker 4: and I was like, ooh, I'm going to be in trouble.
Speaker 4: And he went silent for a very long time and
Speaker 4: then made some noises that were like ooh oh, which
Speaker 4: is not what you want to hear from the person
Speaker 4: with a needle in your back. And then my partner
Speaker 4: and I laughed about this now, but it was not
Speaker 4: funny at the time. He was like, I'm going to
Speaker 4: start by telling you what went right, and I was like,
Speaker 4: that implies something went wrong, and when you're that anxious
Speaker 4: and sleep deprived, it's really hard to take in information.
Speaker 4: And basically what he was saying was I've taken out
Speaker 4: spinal fluid, so he's put the needle in and some
Speaker 4: spinal fluid has come back out, and he was trying
Speaker 4: to work out what that meant if he had got
Speaker 4: it in the right place if it had gone too deep,
Speaker 4: And then I sort of was saying, okay, that's all great.
Speaker 4: I don't really need to know the ins and outs
Speaker 4: of that. I just need to know what's going to happen.
Speaker 4: And he was worried I'd get a complication after the
Speaker 4: epidural once at wore off, or that it would be
Speaker 4: too strong, or that it wouldn't work at all. It
Speaker 4: was so confusing, and I was very, very very anxious.
Speaker 4: He left and came back, and left and came back,
Speaker 4: and I think he was checking on me, which made
Speaker 4: me more worried because I thought, what are you waiting
Speaker 4: to happen in a moment, to pass out or something.
Speaker 4: And I think as well, having something go wrong in
Speaker 4: inverted coomas that early I was like, Oh, this isn't
Speaker 4: not that I pictured it. I was very rigid in
Speaker 4: I'm not going to picture how this is going to go,
Speaker 4: because whatever I picture, it's going to go the other way.
Speaker 4: But I kind of thought that was the bit that
Speaker 4: would go smoothly the epidural, and it didn't. So he
Speaker 4: came back a little while later and said, oh, okay,
Speaker 4: none of the complications seemed to have happened, but as
Speaker 4: the birth went on, the epidural very much wore off.
Speaker 3: Claire was in early labor and at this stage and
Speaker 3: quite understandably, was beginning to panic.
Speaker 4: So I was convinced when he was silent and when
Speaker 4: he was kind of babbling on, I couldn't interpret what
Speaker 4: he was saying. I thought, Oh, my gosh, I'm the
Speaker 4: one in a million that is paralyzed. That something horrible
Speaker 4: has happened here, and something irreversible, and how is it
Speaker 4: that that could happen to me? Even when he left,
Speaker 4: I remember he left for a bit and I turned
Speaker 4: to the midwife and said, I don't understand what he's saying.
Speaker 4: Can you clarify it? And she said, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 4: I don't understand either. And you're getting messages from family
Speaker 4: saying like, oh, have you got the epidural, and you're like, yeah,
Speaker 4: something's gone wrong.
Speaker 5: I don't want to talk about it yet.
Speaker 4: But there was a while there that I was convinced
Speaker 4: I was paralyzed, because then you can't kind of feel
Speaker 4: your legs and you're like, am I ever going to
Speaker 4: feel them again?
Speaker 5: Is this a permanent thing? So I think that put.
Speaker 4: Me in a kind of state of fight or flight
Speaker 4: quite early, and my contractions stopped for.
Speaker 5: Ages after that because I was clearly bloody.
Speaker 3: Terrified coming up.
Speaker 4: It was like a bowling ball, trying to push a
Speaker 4: bowling ball out of my body. And I feel like
Speaker 4: I could feel it the whole time as I was pushing.
Speaker 3: So let's recap.
Speaker 4: I haven't slept in two nights already. I I'm laying
Speaker 4: there thinking I could be paralyzed, and I can't feel
Speaker 4: my legs. I am laying there thinking, Okay, at least
Speaker 4: the words is over. The scary thing has happened. It'll
Speaker 4: be smooth sailing from now on. And so the epidural
Speaker 4: was early that morning, and the day goes on and
Speaker 4: on and on and on, and this is the twentieth
Speaker 4: of December, and my birthday is the twenty first. Every
Speaker 4: midwife was like, don't worry, your baby's coming today. Like
Speaker 4: she's not going to come on your birthday, She's coming today.
Speaker 4: She's coming today. And as the day wears on and
Speaker 4: on and on, I wasn't dilating, and then it got
Speaker 4: to the point where Matilda was very stuck. I had
Speaker 4: a catheterin and I remember saying it was just full
Speaker 4: of blood, and I think that was because she must
Speaker 4: have been stuck somewhere that was blocking something. But she
Speaker 4: was posterior. She was definitely kind of the wrong angle.
Speaker 4: And that's when the epidural started to wear off. And
Speaker 4: I remember the anethethist had said, you can kind of
Speaker 4: control how the epidural works, so if you sit up,
Speaker 4: it works with gravity, so if you sit up, it
Speaker 4: kind of flows further down. And I kept kind of
Speaker 4: sitting up because it was really like that bum pain
Speaker 4: because it's posteria, and it was just agony. Nothing was happening.
Speaker 4: They kept checking and saying, she's stuck, She's stuck, and
Speaker 4: then a midwife came in checked and she said Matilda
Speaker 4: had a cone head. She could tell from checking because
Speaker 4: she'd been pushing for so long and unable to come
Speaker 4: down because I wasn't dilating, and the midwife she looked
Speaker 4: at me and said, it's probably going to be an
Speaker 4: emergency sea section. I'm just going to get the obstetrician,
Speaker 4: but kind of prepare for that. And I was really
Speaker 4: really emotional, not because I'd ever had a fear of
Speaker 4: anything about having a sea section, but just because I
Speaker 4: had this weird instinct to stay in that room. Like
Speaker 4: I just I was like, I don't think I can
Speaker 4: have another needle. For some reason, the idea of moving
Speaker 4: to another room and having surgery was like such a
Speaker 4: jump from just being in this little bubble. And it's weird.
Speaker 4: I think time everything just evaporates when you're in that
Speaker 4: much pain and something is clearly not going right with
Speaker 4: your body.
Speaker 3: Despite being so delirious from pain and exhaustion, Claire was
Speaker 3: able to tune in and listen to what her body
Speaker 3: was telling her.
Speaker 4: So the obstrition came in and she said, weird, it's
Speaker 4: miracle whatever that midwife did, You've dilated another like three centimeters,
Speaker 4: so actually, let's keep going. But she looked at me
Speaker 4: because I was clearly not okay, and she said, do
Speaker 4: you think you can go for another hour? And I said, yes, yes,
Speaker 4: I can go for another hour. And I believe it
Speaker 4: was another five hours before Matilda was born. And in
Speaker 4: that five hours I did start projectile vomiting at one
Speaker 4: point because the pain was so bad, and the midwife
Speaker 4: kept asking if it was press or pain, and I
Speaker 4: just I had no words anymore.
Speaker 5: I just felt very, very out of control.
Speaker 4: And scared, but very in my own body, Like it
Speaker 4: was almost like I wasn't there. You kind of go
Speaker 4: to another place. I think at this point my sister
Speaker 4: had kind of been there for a bit of support
Speaker 4: because I was quite distressed, and my partner's there, and
Speaker 4: then they kind of had a look and the obstrition said, Okay,
Speaker 4: we've got to get Matilda out now. She's she must
Speaker 4: have said she's in distressed. I don't think I heard
Speaker 4: that at the time. Very very quickly it turned into,
Speaker 4: I guess, more of an emergency situation. All of a sudden,
Speaker 4: my legs were like in stirrups, and there were handlebars
Speaker 4: on the bed and lots more people in the room,
Speaker 4: and I remember all the lights being on, and I
Speaker 4: remember that being different because my sister had said with
Speaker 4: hers like pretty much all the lights were off and
Speaker 4: it was just the midwife and the obstrician, and yeah,
Speaker 4: I kind of got the hint that this was going
Speaker 4: to be a little bit different. And the obstric told me,
Speaker 4: you have a few goes at pushing, and she kind
Speaker 4: of needed to tell whether I was able to push
Speaker 4: at that point or if I was too exhausted and
Speaker 4: that's why my sister ended up staying, because the original
Speaker 4: idea had been that it would be my partner and
Speaker 4: I and my sister outside. But yeah, Jesse looked at
Speaker 4: my partner and was like, I did classes on this.
Speaker 4: I know how to help her, and everything had gone
Speaker 4: out of my head. Then the obstrician said, we're going
Speaker 4: to need a vacuum, but in order to do that,
Speaker 4: you do need to push, and the vacuum kind of
Speaker 4: keeps them there. Like apparently when you push, it's like
Speaker 4: baby comes out, goes back in, goes out, back in.
Speaker 4: With a vacuum, it kind of you push and it
Speaker 4: keeps them there, and then you push again and keeps
Speaker 4: them there. So she said, you've got like three pushes
Speaker 4: and if you can't push, I'm gonna have to use
Speaker 4: forceps and risk about it.
Speaker 5: And I was like, wow, that's really hectic.
Speaker 4: And I could feel and I still remember the pain,
Speaker 4: and it really felt like something was wrong, Like I
Speaker 4: could feel the pressure and I thought as I was pushing,
Speaker 4: I was like, I am just certain I'm damaging something,
Speaker 4: I'm breaking something.
Speaker 5: This does not feel It was like it was like.
Speaker 4: A bowling ball trying to push a bowling ball out
Speaker 4: of my body, and I feel like I could feel
Speaker 4: it the whole time as I was pushing. I think
Speaker 4: maybe because there had just been quite a few things
Speaker 4: at all, these moments of thinking that the worst was over,
Speaker 4: and then the obstitution said I'm going to have to
Speaker 4: do a pisiotomy. My partner and I still talk about it.
Speaker 4: There was something about the way she said it and
Speaker 4: the fact that I was so exhausted by that point
Speaker 4: that it feels really scary, Like it feels really scary
Speaker 4: to be consenting to something when you're kind of like,
Speaker 4: obviously you're the obstrician. And my partner turned to me
Speaker 4: and said, like, just you know, you're allowed to think
Speaker 4: about it, blah blah blah.
Speaker 5: And I turned to him and I said, I chainsaw
Speaker 5: to get the baby out.
Speaker 4: I would do that, like obviously she is the obstrician.
Speaker 4: Whatever she says, I'm happy. But there is something I
Speaker 4: think very with birth. It's such a vulnerable position for
Speaker 4: women to be in, and it is your body, you
Speaker 4: not being in control of your body for a lot
Speaker 4: of people for the first time ever, and so I
Speaker 4: think just almost having the visual of that was a
Speaker 4: bit was a bit confronting at the time, and seeing
Speaker 4: her having a tray of instruments and all of that,
Speaker 4: and so it was an episiotomy, and then I think
Speaker 4: it was like one other push and Matilda was out.
Speaker 3: And finally Matilda was here, but then came emotions. Claire
Speaker 3: wasn't expecting.
Speaker 4: When Matilda comes out, I expect to feel the most
Speaker 4: relief I've ever felt.
Speaker 5: But as she.
Speaker 4: Came out, she didn't cry, and I was aware that
Speaker 4: not every baby cries, and there are lots and lots
Speaker 4: of reasons for that. But she was kind of placed
Speaker 4: on me, and I remember she had something in her eye.
Speaker 5: It was really cute.
Speaker 4: She had something in hery, and I was like, honey,
Speaker 4: i'm something. You're right, I was probably goo of some
Speaker 4: description from my body, but she wasn't breathing properly. She
Speaker 4: was on me, and I kind of gave her a cuddle,
Speaker 4: but not for very long. And then they asked my
Speaker 4: partner if he wanted to cut the cord, and he
Speaker 4: had been very because he doesn't like blood and that
Speaker 4: kind of thing. He had been really tossing up, so
Speaker 4: he had a moment of like, oh, I don't know,
Speaker 4: and they kind of looked at him like, cut the
Speaker 4: fricking cord, mate, are you cutting the cord or not?
Speaker 5: And he's like, yes, yes, yes, and so he.
Speaker 4: Cut it and then they took her to the little
Speaker 4: table thing in the room and there were tubes and
Speaker 4: they must have been fluid or something, but yeah, she
Speaker 4: wasn't breathing. So the pediatrician was there, and I remember
Speaker 4: there were several people in the room at that point,
Speaker 4: and I was still in shock that I had just
Speaker 4: given birth and convinced that I was because I was like,
Speaker 4: did the bewt hair happen? I don't know if the
Speaker 4: bowtair happened. I don't like she did the episiotomy.
Speaker 5: Did that?
Speaker 4: Was it a normal episiomy or there are different varieties
Speaker 4: of episiotomy. So I was still kind of focused on
Speaker 4: my body, and I think my partner was as well.
Speaker 4: He was kind of looking at me to see if
Speaker 4: I was okay. And then I remember when he kind
Speaker 4: of stood up and looked over to the back of
Speaker 4: the room and he was.
Speaker 5: Like, oh, is she okay?
Speaker 4: And I guess I'd still been stuck in thinking about me,
Speaker 4: and so I had a lot of guilt about that
Speaker 4: that I wasn't immediately thinking, hold on, wait, what about
Speaker 4: my baby?
Speaker 3: We all planned for that picture perfect first baby photo,
Speaker 3: but Claire's, like many of ours, in reality, didn't come
Speaker 3: out as instaready as planned.
Speaker 4: She had done a pooh on her way out, and
Speaker 4: I had vomited all over myself. So I remember cuddling
Speaker 4: her and looking at her and being so amazed, but
Speaker 4: also being like, oh, I love a shower. I remember
Speaker 4: being like, does anyone have any wipes? Like I just
Speaker 4: had just all sorts of bodily fluids all over me.
Speaker 4: I remember her looking up at me and looking into
Speaker 4: her eyes, And we've got the cutest little photos of
Speaker 4: those moments afterwards where we can tell. We always joke
Speaker 4: that she was looking at me being like, Mum, was
Speaker 4: I the drama? And it's like, yes, you were the drama.
Speaker 4: You were a little bit the drama Matilda. And so
Speaker 4: we had cuddles, and then she was in her basinet
Speaker 4: and my partner, I mean, the things that you don't
Speaker 4: know when you have a baby for the first time.
Speaker 4: He had sort of slept in those two nights, but
Speaker 4: not a whole lot, and he was hovering over the
Speaker 4: Bacinet kind of falling asleep, and the midwife was like,
Speaker 4: do you need something, and he's like, oh, well, someone
Speaker 4: has to watch her while she sleeps, and the midwife
Speaker 4: was like, no, the baby's just going to sleep. You
Speaker 4: can sleep too, So we kind of tried to sleep,
Speaker 4: but you can't because you've got all this adrenaline of
Speaker 4: what just happened.
Speaker 5: And then it's started not defeeding.
Speaker 4: Coming up and people see you and visit you and say,
Speaker 4: oh my god, is it just amazing? Is it everything
Speaker 4: you ever dreamed of? And it's really really confronting if
Speaker 4: inside you're thinking, oh, what if it's not? And I
Speaker 4: can see that that could be the genesis of a
Speaker 4: lot of postpart and mental health issues for men and women.
Speaker 3: Claire is wonderfully candid about the next stage, the bit
Speaker 3: Every movie and book tells you should be filled with
Speaker 3: immediate joy and love, but for many of us doesn't
Speaker 3: play out that way.
Speaker 4: So my twin sister, the moment she gave birth, she
Speaker 4: described it as she felt like the universe open, like
Speaker 4: it was a very profound, moving moment for her. And
Speaker 4: when I was in labor, she had said to me, like,
Speaker 4: you know, tomorrow is going to be the best day
Speaker 4: of your life, like you have like you have no idea,
Speaker 4: it's just going to be so amazing. And everybody had
Speaker 4: said that throughout pregnancy, like this is just going to
Speaker 4: be It is all worth it.
Speaker 5: It is incredible.
Speaker 4: And because I guess when it's a traumatic berth, you
Speaker 4: can't switch gears that quickly of hold on, I'm really
Speaker 4: scared for me and my baby. Like when Matilda was stuck,
Speaker 4: I was thinking, well, hold on, is she in distress?
Speaker 4: Do we know that her heart rate's fine? Should we
Speaker 4: be worried about this? And then when she was born,
Speaker 4: I think all the trauma of it can't be separated
Speaker 4: from the baby immediately. And I think as well, when
Speaker 4: I was pushing, I was angry, like the overwhelming emotion.
Speaker 4: I felt out of control, I was in pain. But
Speaker 4: when she then came out, I couldn't go from the
Speaker 4: anger to the this is you know, the best day
Speaker 4: of my life. I couldn't do that immediately, and I
Speaker 4: think the pressure to do that is really it's not great.
Speaker 4: And people see you and visit you and say, oh
Speaker 4: my god, is it just amazing? Is it everything you
Speaker 4: ever dreamed of? And it's really really confronting if inside
Speaker 4: you're thinking, oh, what if it's not? And I can
Speaker 4: see that that could be the genesis of a lot
Speaker 4: of postpart and mental health issues for men and women,
Speaker 4: because I am a bit ashamed to admit that probably
Speaker 4: before giving birth, I didn't really understand how men could
Speaker 4: get postnal depression. I thought, but women have all sorts
Speaker 4: of hormones, and you've had this experience. And then I
Speaker 4: looked at my partner and thought, you would be just
Speaker 4: as entitled to be traumatized by this as I have.
Speaker 4: And then there's the sleep deprivation for days afterwards, and
Speaker 4: then there's contending with hold on what if I don't
Speaker 4: feel the way that I'm meant to feel? And I
Speaker 4: think a lot of people have that, And it's actually
Speaker 4: the shame that you put on top of that emotion
Speaker 4: and not the emotion itself that is the really scary thing.
Speaker 3: Like many mums, it took Claire time to bond with
Speaker 3: her baby.
Speaker 4: So then I was very focused on the feeding and
Speaker 4: the like I need to do this and I need
Speaker 4: to do this right. And so I think it took
Speaker 4: a few weeks for me to sort of give myself
Speaker 4: some grace and take the pressure off myself and just
Speaker 4: enjoy this absolutely beautiful baby, and it just gets better
Speaker 4: and better and better. Yeah, it's the sort of thing
Speaker 4: I don't know if anyone can tell you at the time,
Speaker 4: but it passes, and the love and obsession is just
Speaker 4: unlike anything I've ever experienced before. My biggest word of
Speaker 4: this year has been grace that I really think giving
Speaker 4: yourself grace and being gentle on yourself is so important.
Speaker 4: And so however birth goes, it is not your fault.
Speaker 4: There is no judgment. And this might be different personalities
Speaker 4: and different ways of looking at things, but whatever way
Speaker 4: they come into the world is perfect. Whatever way you
Speaker 4: feed them is perfect. With breastfeeding, I remember reading a
Speaker 4: thing that changed my perspective on it. That's like carrots
Speaker 4: are healthy, but you don't have to eat carrots to
Speaker 4: be healthy, like you can eat other things. And I
Speaker 4: kind of think about that in regards to all the
Speaker 4: stuff around birth postpartum. No one's gonna get the perfect
Speaker 4: set of circumstances for their child because life is life,
Speaker 4: and your baby doesn't know what they didn't.
Speaker 5: Get, Like, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Like, it's so stupid to have any like all the
Speaker 4: research around, like c sections and vaginal birds and breastfeeding
Speaker 4: versus not breastfeeding. It's like, well, that baby is only
Speaker 4: getting what they're getting and they are who they are.
Speaker 4: I just think taking the pressure off yourself, your or
Speaker 4: baby is not a science experiment. They are a really complex,
Speaker 4: full human being, and so you are not going to
Speaker 4: inject the perfect amount of things into them and make
Speaker 4: them into some superhuman And even if that was possible,
Speaker 4: you don't want that anyway, because you just want a
Speaker 4: normal kid.
Speaker 3: While we love learning about women's birth stories, we recognize
Speaker 3: that it's also important to hear from the experts, and
Speaker 3: we're lucky enough to have one of the best in
Speaker 3: doctor Golly, who is one of the country's favorite pediatricians
Speaker 3: and a Data three like Claire. Many Australian women choose
Speaker 3: to have epidurals and for the vast majority of the
Speaker 3: time they are completely safe and drama free. Here's doctor Golli.
Speaker 1: Yeah, epidurols are. They are a very safe and extremely
Speaker 1: effective method of pain relief during labor. But like any procedure,
Speaker 1: there are always side effects and this is the real
Speaker 1: challenge is weighing up the pros and the cons And
Speaker 1: what I really want women out there to know is
Speaker 1: that side effects are common, but you've got to know
Speaker 1: what's common, what's mild, what's serious, and just how often
Speaker 1: they occur. So with regard to an epidural, what are
Speaker 1: the common side effects? Probably the most common one that
Speaker 1: I see with women who've had epidurals, certainly the same
Speaker 1: when my wife had her epidurals low blood pressure. And
Speaker 1: it can usually be managed really well with fluids and
Speaker 1: sometimes medications. This is happening about probably up to twenty
Speaker 1: percent of the time. There's also with a similar incidence
Speaker 1: is itchy skin. It's often quite a minor annoyance. And
Speaker 1: here I am saying it's a minor annoyance. I'm not
Speaker 1: someone who's ever had to experience it, but again, it
Speaker 1: can be treated really easily, really effectively with medication. And
Speaker 1: then in about less than one percent of cases, there
Speaker 1: is a headache, and it's a specific type of headache.
Speaker 1: It's known as a post dural puncture headache PDPH, and
Speaker 1: it's often from a small leak of spinal fluid, so
Speaker 1: it's quite rare and it usually resolves very quickly. Also,
Speaker 1: there is a present seizure, a very minor procedure called
Speaker 1: a blood patch, which is what an anesthetis can do
Speaker 1: to basically seal that little leak, and it's very effective
Speaker 1: in terming the headache off. I haven't seen that very often,
Speaker 1: but it is something that happens. So even the common
Speaker 1: side effects are not particularly common. And then there are
Speaker 1: the rare implications. So infection. Now, any time you breach
Speaker 1: the skin with anything, there is a risk of infection.
Speaker 1: Here we're talking point one of percent. Then there is
Speaker 1: the risk of nerve damage, which is probably the fear
Speaker 1: that's at the forefront of most women. It's extremely, extremely rare,
Speaker 1: and it's usually temporary as well. In terms of rarity,
Speaker 1: we're talking zero point zero three percent, so it's a
Speaker 1: really dining number. And then arguably the most severe side effect,
Speaker 1: most serious one, is a severe allergic reaction. But this
Speaker 1: is so uncommon. I've not only never seen it, I've
Speaker 1: never heard of it any of my colleagues, never talking
Speaker 1: less than zero point zero one percent. So the other
Speaker 1: thing to remember during epidurals the niece that is, they're
Speaker 1: monitoring your blood pressure, your vital signs throughout the procedure
Speaker 1: throughout the labor, so it's always being watched and like
Speaker 1: I touched on before, you've got a way up the
Speaker 1: benefits and the risks. So for many women, the pain
Speaker 1: relief provided from epidural significantly improves their labor experience and
Speaker 1: they can participate more actively in the birth. They can actually,
Speaker 1: you know, some people say, actually enjoy it. It's a
Speaker 1: very very individualized decision. I just want mums and expected
Speaker 1: mums to know what the percentages are so they know
Speaker 1: what to worry about and what is so uncommon that
Speaker 1: it's extremely unlikely to happen.
Speaker 3: I love how honest Claire was about the time it
Speaker 3: took to bond with Matilda. Doctor Gollie says that this
Speaker 3: is common and it really should be spoken about to
Speaker 3: alleviate the guilt mums unfairly put on themselves for feeling
Speaker 3: this way.
Speaker 1: Oh I love this, I really do. And you know,
Speaker 1: I've worked with Claire and her bub and one thing
Speaker 1: that struck me was just that absolute honesty, and it's
Speaker 1: so refreshing and it's so necessary in these conversations because
Speaker 1: there is this idyllic, Hollywood style, Instagram friendly version of
Speaker 1: childbirth where baby arrives and you know, the tears flow,
Speaker 1: and this is what I've always been waiting for, and
Speaker 1: it's everything I've ever dreamed of, And it's just not
Speaker 1: always the case. I know, when my first was born,
Speaker 1: I was anticipating this more than anything that I'd ever
Speaker 1: thought of in my life, and when she arrived, I
Speaker 1: had the same absence of feeling and I worried there
Speaker 1: was something wrong with me. There was certainly nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with my daughter. So I completely empathize with what Claire
Speaker 1: went through. And it's important that people know what to expect.
Speaker 1: I know that line is cliche, but know what to
Speaker 1: expect when you are expecting and also what doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: happen straight away. So that is a surprisingly common response
Speaker 1: for new parents, even if it's not your first child.
Speaker 1: There are so many reasons why this is the case,
Speaker 1: anything from a traumatic birth experience, sleep deprivation, shock, fear, anxiety,
Speaker 1: postpartum blues. There are so many reasons why this can happen.
Speaker 1: But the important thing to know is that that bond
Speaker 1: and that connection, it doesn't have to be instant, and
Speaker 1: it is built over time, and the way you build
Speaker 1: it is by parenting. It's by feeding, whether breast or bottle,
Speaker 1: by winding, by changing nappies, by bathing, by rubbing a lotion,
Speaker 1: on being there, just simply being with your baby. That's
Speaker 1: what builds that bridge. And speaking from personal experience, it
Speaker 1: makes no difference in the long term whether that bridge
Speaker 1: is built the moment the cord is cut, or that
Speaker 1: bridge is built over days to weeks or months. It
Speaker 1: does get built, and there is absolutely no harm in
Speaker 1: a delay.
Speaker 3: Here a diary of a birth. We want to educate
Speaker 3: and entertain you with these amazing stories of birth, but
Speaker 3: also prepare expectant mums for what comes next the fourth
Speaker 3: trimester when you bring your baby home. Here's Claire's advice.
Speaker 4: My practical advice is I read a book called The
Speaker 4: First Six Weeks by midwife Cas. It was the only
Speaker 4: thing I read and it's really short, so you can
Speaker 4: read it very quickly. That was my guide because essentially
Speaker 4: she says.
Speaker 5: All you need to do is feed them and hold them.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 4: They are the rules. There are no habits. You can't
Speaker 4: stuff anything up in that period. So that's my practical advice.
Speaker 4: And the other thing is don't try and do too much,
Speaker 4: I think for future babies. I would do a lot
Speaker 4: more of the slowing down. Just hang it home, people
Speaker 4: can wait. Everyone's going to meet your baby eventually, so
Speaker 4: I think take the pressure off. Just nappies and you
Speaker 4: think you don't need as many as you do, but
Speaker 4: you do.
Speaker 5: You need lots.
Speaker 4: And the other thing is and I will say this
Speaker 4: was a Maya Friedman special, great practical gifts. She got
Speaker 4: me just these Kmart big cumphy undies and was like,
Speaker 4: however long, just wear them and you can just chuck
Speaker 4: them out. You don't have to worry about maintaining these.
Speaker 4: And they were perfect because you know you might not
Speaker 4: be your normal size and your size is fluctuating and
Speaker 4: all of that, and just so comfy. Don't try to
Speaker 4: prep too much because you just and you can change.
Speaker 4: You can change your baby's nappy on the bloody floor.
Speaker 4: You don't need your full stocked everything like.
Speaker 5: You'll be fine.
Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us on Diary of a Birth,
Speaker 3: where we celebrate all the amazing ways that we as
Speaker 3: women bring life into the world. If you'd like to
Speaker 3: share your birth story with us, we'd love to hear
Speaker 3: from you. Details are in the show notes. Diary of
Speaker 3: a Birth was hosted by me Cassanya Lukic with expert
Speaker 3: input from Doctor Collie, Audio production by Scott Stronach and
Speaker 3: our executive producer is Georgie Page.