WEBVTT - Kasey Chambers Keeps A D*ckhead List

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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<v Speaker 2>that this podcast is recorded on. So I wrote a

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<v Speaker 2>dickhead list. It's inspired by today's guest who wrote her

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<v Speaker 2>own and put it in a book. Imagine a blank page,

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<v Speaker 2>Feel the pen twitching in your hand, scribble the words

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<v Speaker 2>and being a dickhead when I and have at it,

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<v Speaker 2>it's freeing. Do you want to hear mine? Okay, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>being a dickhead when I don't listen, just wait to talk.

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<v Speaker 2>Stare in the mirror until all my problems are about

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<v Speaker 2>my jewls. Forget that my children aren't me, Refuse to

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<v Speaker 2>look at my bank balance, get too comfy on my

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<v Speaker 2>high horse. Open the clean dishwasher, take out a fork,

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<v Speaker 2>close the clean dishwasher. I know I'm being a dickhead

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<v Speaker 2>when I over commit and do a half fast job.

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<v Speaker 2>Mentally blame other people for my half fast job, indulge

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<v Speaker 2>in the poor me wallowing that over committing inevitably leads

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<v Speaker 2>to all that. To say, I'm being a dickhead when

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<v Speaker 2>I don't just grow a pair and say no, thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't write now, I'm being a dickhead when I

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<v Speaker 2>forget that my mood affects others. Forget my keep cup,

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<v Speaker 2>Forget I have choices, Forget how long it takes to

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<v Speaker 2>do absolutely everything. Really try to bake and blame the

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<v Speaker 2>recipe for the inevitable, inedible tin of shit.

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<v Speaker 3>Refresh for likes.

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<v Speaker 2>Judge books by their covers, and when I say books,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean people. And when I say covers, I mean appearances.

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<v Speaker 2>And when I say judge, I mean judge. I'm being

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<v Speaker 2>a dickhead when I don't admit I was wrong. Don't

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<v Speaker 2>pack snacks, don't call my mom, don't let the truth

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<v Speaker 2>get in the way of an easy opinion, don't have

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<v Speaker 2>time to read, don't check the weather. I never check

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<v Speaker 2>the weather. I am being a dickhead when I am

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<v Speaker 2>cruelest to those closest. Have two wines and start the lecture.

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<v Speaker 2>Allow the fact that shampoo and conditioner are no longer

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<v Speaker 2>in a big enough font on the bottles, and I

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<v Speaker 2>allow it to ruin my entire morning. Start confusing other

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<v Speaker 2>people's lives, choices, achievements with a commentary on my own.

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<v Speaker 2>Start carrying salt sachets in my purse by a size

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<v Speaker 2>too small. Get way too much enjoyment from listing all

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<v Speaker 2>my faults. Hello, my name is Holly Wainwright and I

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<v Speaker 2>am mid midlife, mid family mid writing a dickhead list.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not a list of dickheads, although, let's face it,

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<v Speaker 2>by this stage of life we've all met a few

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<v Speaker 2>of those. They are a fact of life. As a

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<v Speaker 2>wise woman once said, anyway you look, there'll be a dickhead.

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<v Speaker 2>Better get used to it.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, we're used to it.

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<v Speaker 2>No, this list is for you. It's a list of

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<v Speaker 2>warning signs, if you like red flags in online speak,

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<v Speaker 2>that signal to us that we're getting a bit.

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<v Speaker 1>Too far from who we are.

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<v Speaker 2>It's when you go against your experience and towards your bullshit.

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<v Speaker 2>Today's guest, Casey Chambers, has built a career on tuning

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<v Speaker 2>into her gut and my not pretty ener.

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<v Speaker 1>Is my heart too proory? Captain and I are no

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<v Speaker 1>one tend feels oh wanna be?

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<v Speaker 2>She calls it her little Foghorn, the foghorn who told

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<v Speaker 2>her that her first album should be called The Captain,

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<v Speaker 2>despite the suits thinking it was a terrible idea. The

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<v Speaker 2>Captain went on to go platinum three times. It was

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<v Speaker 2>the Foghorn who pushed Casey to ask ed Sheeran if

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<v Speaker 2>he might like to sing with her, even though she

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<v Speaker 2>was pretty convinced he might be, you know, busy. He

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<v Speaker 2>did the foghorn that told her to seek help for

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<v Speaker 2>an eating disorder that brought her to her knees, to

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<v Speaker 2>leave a marriage that was no longer working, to parent

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<v Speaker 2>against the grain, and to step off the glamorous but

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<v Speaker 2>arduous international touring circuit to get back to what she loved,

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<v Speaker 2>traveling around Australia in a van with her family, singing

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<v Speaker 2>songs to people who wanted to hear them. That refusal

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<v Speaker 2>to get caught up in what we're told we should

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<v Speaker 2>want rather than what we actually do. That's Casey's special source.

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<v Speaker 2>Not pretty enough, who gives a fuck? Try to look younger?

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<v Speaker 2>Why though sing songs about divorce with her ex husband

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<v Speaker 2>sounds like a bloody brilliant idea still tour with her

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<v Speaker 2>dad doing merchant, her mum doing babysitting, even though her parents'

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<v Speaker 2>romantic relationship ended ages ago. Absolutely, this conversation is an

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<v Speaker 2>absolute gem, because Casey is an absolute gem. It's dripping

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<v Speaker 2>with hard won mid lessons, good advice, and stories of

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<v Speaker 2>times everything went tits up, many of them recounted in

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<v Speaker 2>Casey's book called You Guessed It.

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<v Speaker 3>Just don't be a dickhead. And there are two bits.

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<v Speaker 2>In particular that are the kind of sparkly conversations duels

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<v Speaker 2>I wrote down immediately and I think about them all

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<v Speaker 2>the time. I'll tell you what they are at the

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<v Speaker 2>end and see if they're the same as yours. So

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<v Speaker 2>welcome to me and Casey Chambers, the most undickheady rock

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<v Speaker 2>star you're ever going to meet. Casey, you wrote a

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<v Speaker 2>book on the notes app on your phone? Do you

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<v Speaker 2>know that makes you very generation Z.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's the only thing that makes me that actually,

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<v Speaker 1>and the reason for that is that I am really

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<v Speaker 1>bad at anything technical and I don't even own a laptop. Wow,

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<v Speaker 1>So what I'm doing this interview on right now is

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<v Speaker 1>not even my laptop. So I had to borrow this

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<v Speaker 1>so that we could do this interview because I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know how to use a laptop.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, so you explain about what you just told me

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<v Speaker 2>in the sort of intro to the book, and you

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<v Speaker 2>also say in that you explore your insecurities about publishing

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<v Speaker 2>a book at all. Right, you say you went through

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<v Speaker 2>this process of going. You know, I'm not a writer.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't write it. Maybe I shouldn't put it out there.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe it's too vulnerable. I wanted to ask you about confidence,

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<v Speaker 2>because although I think that when you get to grown

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<v Speaker 2>up age, as I like to call it, in some ways,

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<v Speaker 2>we're much more confident.

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<v Speaker 3>We've survived a lot of stuff, but also a.

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<v Speaker 2>Lot of midwomen suffer from a lot of anxiety and

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<v Speaker 2>lack of confidence too, and we think, oh, who am

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<v Speaker 2>I to say whatever? You obviously overcame that to get

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<v Speaker 2>this book out.

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<v Speaker 3>What have you learned.

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<v Speaker 2>About how to shut up that insecure voice in your head?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Oh, do you know what. I don't think I

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<v Speaker 1>shut her up. I think I'm just a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>more aware of why she pops in, so I don't

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<v Speaker 1>I don't even know that we should shut her up.

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<v Speaker 2>That's interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not I think it's okay to feel insecure about stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's what we do with that that is

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<v Speaker 1>probably the most important part. Because she popped in for

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<v Speaker 1>a reason. You know, she popped in because I'm doing

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<v Speaker 1>something I've never done before. And you know what, she

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<v Speaker 1>actually had a lot of really legitimate reasons as to

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<v Speaker 1>why I shouldn't go any further, you know, because it like,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not in all and you know, if anyone reads

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<v Speaker 1>this book, they will know exactly what I'm talking about

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<v Speaker 1>in the first few paragraphs. I'm not an author at all.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know I don't. I don't write in the way that

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<v Speaker 1>you would you would read mot It's just conversational. It's

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<v Speaker 1>the way that I would talk to you right now.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm going to try and have a few less

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<v Speaker 1>swear words in this interview than what are in the book.

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<v Speaker 3>You can have a couple. It's okay, we're all grown ups.

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<v Speaker 3>It's okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Try but that's really interesting. Tell me about that, because

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I think that often we're told well, like

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<v Speaker 2>fake it till you make it, tell you're in a

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<v Speaker 2>critic to shut up, tell them to take a back seat.

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<v Speaker 2>But sometimes they have got valid things to say.

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<v Speaker 1>Right totally. And I think you know, she was coming

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<v Speaker 1>in to go, yeah, like you you don't know what

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<v Speaker 1>you're doing. This is something new that's for you that

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<v Speaker 1>you've never done before. But then I guess I think

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<v Speaker 1>about it a little bit more and go, well, does

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<v Speaker 1>that mean that I shouldn't put it out like, just

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<v Speaker 1>because it's not going to be the great book in

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<v Speaker 1>the world, it's not going to change the world. It's

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<v Speaker 1>not going to be for everybody. It's a very acquired taste,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. It's like, just because it's not all of

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<v Speaker 1>those things that you feel insecure about, does that mean

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<v Speaker 1>you don't get the chance to share it? Of course

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<v Speaker 1>I can, you know, and the people that will like

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<v Speaker 1>it will gravitate towards it, And even if that's only

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<v Speaker 1>my mom's then that's okay. Although she actually thinks there's

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<v Speaker 1>too much swearing in it, but aside from that, she

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<v Speaker 1>kind of likes it.

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<v Speaker 3>Of course she does.

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<v Speaker 2>I I mean, obviously I'm going to disagree with you

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<v Speaker 2>and say I think there's loads of wisdom in this

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<v Speaker 2>book that will be relevant to everybody. But we'll get

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<v Speaker 2>to all that. But it's interesting because there are a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of other times in the book where you do

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<v Speaker 2>talk about how you had to push yourself to be

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<v Speaker 2>more confident than you felt. You know, like there's a

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<v Speaker 2>story in there about when you really wanted to work

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<v Speaker 2>with ad Sharon, for example, and you were like too

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<v Speaker 2>nervous to ask because you're like, of course he's going

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<v Speaker 2>to say no.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So sometimes we do.

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<v Speaker 2>Just have to suck up that, like who do I

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<v Speaker 2>think I am? Stuff and jump.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I definitely, I definitely went through that when I

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<v Speaker 1>was asking Ed to sing on this song. And I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know him well or and he we're not really

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<v Speaker 1>good friends or anything, but we have some mutual friends

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<v Speaker 1>and we were label mates there for a bit and stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>So I had a way of asking him, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>through a really good friend of mine. And I did

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<v Speaker 1>go through that thing where I went, oh my god,

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<v Speaker 1>I can't ask Ed Sheeran. He's the biggest artist in

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<v Speaker 1>the world, and you know, that's just ridiculous that I

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<v Speaker 1>would think that someone like him would sing on a song.

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<v Speaker 1>And then there's the other end of the scale where

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<v Speaker 1>you want to be so confident and you go like,

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<v Speaker 1>you tell yourself, no, don't be insecure. You should be

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<v Speaker 1>able to ask anyone anything or whatever. And at the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the day, that's probably a bit of my

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<v Speaker 1>ego talking or whatever, but I think a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>it is about bringing in the actual realistic situation rather

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<v Speaker 1>than listening to these two extreme voices, yeah, where one

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<v Speaker 1>is designed just to give you self doubt, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and to bring in all these things and to try

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<v Speaker 1>and convince you to not do anything, because staying in

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<v Speaker 1>your comfort zone is obviously much more comfortable. And then

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<v Speaker 1>the other one is to protect you this ego that

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<v Speaker 1>has been developed to protect you from ever getting hurt

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<v Speaker 1>or whatever, and then it turns into this massive ego

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<v Speaker 1>where you think you're way better than you are, which

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<v Speaker 1>I've been there as well. But then at the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the day, there's just this realistic situation in the

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<v Speaker 1>middle where I can ask him, he can say no,

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<v Speaker 1>and yeah, my pride might be hurt a bit, but

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<v Speaker 1>what's the big deal about that? Anyway, you put yourself

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<v Speaker 1>out there, and I think it's just trying to be

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<v Speaker 1>even just with the book, of putting the book out there,

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<v Speaker 1>just going this is just about me sharing my stories.

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<v Speaker 1>Not everyone has to like it, not everyone has to

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<v Speaker 1>connect to it. I think once I started convincing myself

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<v Speaker 1>that the book is really similar to music, that I

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<v Speaker 1>put myself out there in music, and I don't really

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<v Speaker 1>care most of the time. Now, don't get me wrong,

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<v Speaker 1>I hope that people like my music. I'm not sitting

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<v Speaker 1>back going on. I don't give a shoot, you know whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, I do. I want people to come to

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<v Speaker 1>my shows, and it's really nice when people like my

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<v Speaker 1>music and connect to it. Of course I want that,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's not the only reason. Just getting praise and

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<v Speaker 1>compliments and like having a number one song or album

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<v Speaker 1>or whatever. That's not why I'm doing it. It's more like,

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<v Speaker 1>if they're the bonuses that happen along the way, then

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<v Speaker 1>that's great. It just turned into one.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's interesting because, well, first of all, I want

0:11:52.967 --> 0:11:54.727
<v Speaker 2>to say that what you just said is so good

0:11:54.767 --> 0:11:57.207
<v Speaker 2>about asking for what you want, well, what you'd love

0:11:57.287 --> 0:11:59.567
<v Speaker 2>or whatever, and not being afraid of the no. Because

0:11:59.847 --> 0:12:01.967
<v Speaker 2>not everybody who's listened to this obviously is asking Ed

0:12:02.047 --> 0:12:03.247
<v Speaker 2>Sharon to sing on a song with.

0:12:03.247 --> 0:12:04.927
<v Speaker 3>Them, but they are.

0:12:06.367 --> 0:12:07.407
<v Speaker 1>Now, oh yeah, they will.

0:12:07.447 --> 0:12:11.007
<v Speaker 2>Now the man's inboxes flowing as we're talking about. But

0:12:11.407 --> 0:12:13.727
<v Speaker 2>asking for anything that you want or what you need

0:12:13.927 --> 0:12:16.487
<v Speaker 2>is really hard, and for women, I think in particular

0:12:16.567 --> 0:12:19.967
<v Speaker 2>sometimes because it's always like, oh, do I sound myself?

0:12:20.007 --> 0:12:22.367
<v Speaker 2>Do I sound unreasonable? So I think that's a really

0:12:22.407 --> 0:12:24.407
<v Speaker 2>good lesson. But to the book and the album, it's

0:12:24.447 --> 0:12:28.127
<v Speaker 2>such a creative idea, right because you've got these chapters

0:12:28.167 --> 0:12:30.567
<v Speaker 2>that are sort of like little lessons and they're almost

0:12:30.567 --> 0:12:33.687
<v Speaker 2>got affirmations through them, which is so interesting. But then

0:12:33.727 --> 0:12:36.807
<v Speaker 2>there's also through it like QR codes where you can

0:12:36.927 --> 0:12:39.367
<v Speaker 2>scan and listen to the new album, which is why

0:12:39.367 --> 0:12:40.687
<v Speaker 2>the book and the album are coming out at once.

0:12:40.727 --> 0:12:44.087
<v Speaker 2>It's very clever. It made me think because obviously reading this,

0:12:44.247 --> 0:12:47.727
<v Speaker 2>music has been in your blood and your life since

0:12:47.727 --> 0:12:50.447
<v Speaker 2>you were born and since and you have been performing

0:12:50.487 --> 0:12:53.887
<v Speaker 2>since you were nine, And I was thinking that this

0:12:54.007 --> 0:12:56.087
<v Speaker 2>is such an original, interesting way of getting your music

0:12:56.127 --> 0:12:59.207
<v Speaker 2>out there. You must have seen so much change in

0:12:59.247 --> 0:13:02.487
<v Speaker 2>the industry and how to get your music to the

0:13:02.487 --> 0:13:05.287
<v Speaker 2>people who want to hear it. Is that exhausting or

0:13:05.367 --> 0:13:07.967
<v Speaker 2>is it an interesting creative challenge? And do you still

0:13:08.367 --> 0:13:10.327
<v Speaker 2>love that challenge?

0:13:10.607 --> 0:13:14.407
<v Speaker 1>I don't. It's neither. It's not exhausting, and I don't

0:13:14.447 --> 0:13:17.367
<v Speaker 1>think I look at it like a challenge, although if

0:13:17.407 --> 0:13:20.967
<v Speaker 1>I break it down, I probably do get excited about

0:13:21.007 --> 0:13:23.647
<v Speaker 1>coming up with new ways and stuff like that. In

0:13:23.687 --> 0:13:26.087
<v Speaker 1>saying that it's funny when you just said, then it's

0:13:26.127 --> 0:13:29.727
<v Speaker 1>a really clever way to do it. That QR code

0:13:29.767 --> 0:13:34.767
<v Speaker 1>thing literally came about. I thought of it a week

0:13:34.927 --> 0:13:37.567
<v Speaker 1>before we signed off on the book. Really, do you

0:13:37.607 --> 0:13:40.007
<v Speaker 1>know the only reason it came about just so the

0:13:40.047 --> 0:13:42.287
<v Speaker 1>listener knows you can read a little story. So some

0:13:42.367 --> 0:13:45.127
<v Speaker 1>of the stories inspired songs, and some of the songs

0:13:45.167 --> 0:13:48.407
<v Speaker 1>inspired stories in the book, right, So from a creative

0:13:48.407 --> 0:13:51.767
<v Speaker 1>point of view, it's always been connected. But yeah, I

0:13:52.047 --> 0:13:54.967
<v Speaker 1>just thought, oh, I wonder if that's a possibility to

0:13:55.087 --> 0:13:58.607
<v Speaker 1>do that, because on the first little bit the note

0:13:58.607 --> 0:14:02.847
<v Speaker 1>of Intention in the book, I had just signed off

0:14:03.207 --> 0:14:06.207
<v Speaker 1>on the last little bit of where that would sit

0:14:06.287 --> 0:14:08.407
<v Speaker 1>and the photos that come after it and stuff like that,

0:14:08.687 --> 0:14:12.047
<v Speaker 1>and I got to the end of that chapter reading it,

0:14:12.447 --> 0:14:16.407
<v Speaker 1>and I went, oh, my god, I just wish people

0:14:16.447 --> 0:14:19.647
<v Speaker 1>could hear A New Day Has Come, because that's the

0:14:19.687 --> 0:14:23.647
<v Speaker 1>first track on my album, and that song is really

0:14:23.687 --> 0:14:27.607
<v Speaker 1>closely related to that note of Intention, just by accident,

0:14:27.767 --> 0:14:30.447
<v Speaker 1>you know. I wrote the song years ago, in the

0:14:30.447 --> 0:14:34.167
<v Speaker 1>middle of COVID actually, and then I was just like,

0:14:34.447 --> 0:14:37.207
<v Speaker 1>I really want people to hear this right now, Like

0:14:37.327 --> 0:14:40.327
<v Speaker 1>I want them to hear almost like the soundtrack of

0:14:40.327 --> 0:14:43.287
<v Speaker 1>what they just read and be in that with me.

0:14:44.047 --> 0:14:44.927
<v Speaker 1>That's what I hear.

0:14:45.567 --> 0:14:54.407
<v Speaker 2>Love that to the harves Lot of the Dawn.

0:14:54.007 --> 0:14:55.567
<v Speaker 3>As because.

0:14:57.567 --> 0:15:05.047
<v Speaker 1>The Good Days.

0:15:08.447 --> 0:15:11.487
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to ask some of the books lessons affirmations.

0:15:11.487 --> 0:15:12.447
<v Speaker 3>What would you call them?

0:15:12.487 --> 0:15:14.767
<v Speaker 2>There's sort of statements that prop up through the book.

0:15:15.087 --> 0:15:19.047
<v Speaker 1>Well I call them lessons, I guess, But yeah, I

0:15:19.287 --> 0:15:21.647
<v Speaker 1>think of them like these little echoes in my in

0:15:21.647 --> 0:15:25.447
<v Speaker 1>my head, you know that that just pop in at

0:15:25.527 --> 0:15:29.527
<v Speaker 1>times in my life to go like just little reminders.

0:15:29.567 --> 0:15:32.647
<v Speaker 1>And I really think it is that inner voice you

0:15:32.687 --> 0:15:37.847
<v Speaker 1>know that I probably know anyway. I mean in real life,

0:15:37.887 --> 0:15:39.647
<v Speaker 1>I call her my inner foghorn.

0:15:39.727 --> 0:15:41.407
<v Speaker 3>You're in a foghorn. I love it.

0:15:41.527 --> 0:15:45.087
<v Speaker 1>You know. Sometimes she's just like really full on about

0:15:45.167 --> 0:15:47.287
<v Speaker 1>about trying to get my attention and that although I

0:15:47.647 --> 0:15:53.047
<v Speaker 1>still ignore herself times, but I yeah, just this inner

0:15:53.127 --> 0:15:56.007
<v Speaker 1>voice that I have that I believe we all have,

0:15:56.087 --> 0:15:58.727
<v Speaker 1>you know that. I think there's more answers in there

0:15:58.727 --> 0:16:00.887
<v Speaker 1>than what we give them credit for, you know. And

0:16:01.287 --> 0:16:03.327
<v Speaker 1>I think she's been there a long time. And then

0:16:03.687 --> 0:16:07.327
<v Speaker 1>I dull her down at times in my life and

0:16:07.687 --> 0:16:10.447
<v Speaker 1>I let the outer noise drown her out a lot.

0:16:11.047 --> 0:16:17.407
<v Speaker 1>You know, she's she's just really oh sorry, I'll get okay.

0:16:18.007 --> 0:16:24.527
<v Speaker 1>It's just this really it's like she's this little girl

0:16:24.687 --> 0:16:28.647
<v Speaker 1>that's just way more wise than I am and not

0:16:28.887 --> 0:16:31.767
<v Speaker 1>just like and often I think I think that I

0:16:31.847 --> 0:16:35.167
<v Speaker 1>know better than her because I've learned all this stuff

0:16:35.207 --> 0:16:39.727
<v Speaker 1>and you know, and I don't know. Sometimes I try

0:16:39.727 --> 0:16:44.727
<v Speaker 1>to think of her like like, you know, this guide

0:16:45.247 --> 0:16:49.607
<v Speaker 1>that really does know my path better than people that

0:16:49.687 --> 0:16:52.487
<v Speaker 1>are telling me what my path should be. And I

0:16:52.527 --> 0:16:54.967
<v Speaker 1>think that's the thing in the industry when when you know,

0:16:55.167 --> 0:16:58.567
<v Speaker 1>or any industry, probably I can really only talk from my.

0:16:58.567 --> 0:17:00.527
<v Speaker 2>Own well and life and the world and all the

0:17:00.567 --> 0:17:01.887
<v Speaker 2>things it's always telling you to be.

0:17:02.047 --> 0:17:05.167
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we're just I'm more than ever. We're constantly just

0:17:05.287 --> 0:17:08.167
<v Speaker 1>told who we should be and what we should look like,

0:17:08.327 --> 0:17:10.807
<v Speaker 1>and you know, what we should sound like, and what

0:17:10.847 --> 0:17:13.887
<v Speaker 1>we should say and what we should believe. Even more,

0:17:15.127 --> 0:17:19.567
<v Speaker 1>you know, like probably that that one's the hardest one

0:17:19.607 --> 0:17:22.607
<v Speaker 1>is we decide that this is what we believe.

0:17:23.167 --> 0:17:24.087
<v Speaker 3>And and.

0:17:25.607 --> 0:17:27.567
<v Speaker 1>The thing is we can believe whatever we want any

0:17:27.647 --> 0:17:30.287
<v Speaker 1>day of the week. We can take it all out

0:17:30.327 --> 0:17:32.327
<v Speaker 1>and go, I don't believe that anymore. I'm going to

0:17:32.367 --> 0:17:35.167
<v Speaker 1>believe this now because that resonates with this inner voice.

0:17:35.207 --> 0:17:38.287
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, but she's she's pretty important.

0:17:38.327 --> 0:17:41.247
<v Speaker 2>Do you think that it makes you emotional thinking about

0:17:41.727 --> 0:17:44.367
<v Speaker 2>the inner foghorn because of what sometimes it costs us

0:17:44.407 --> 0:17:46.127
<v Speaker 2>when we don't listen to her.

0:17:47.127 --> 0:17:54.807
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I do because I tune her out a lot,

0:17:54.967 --> 0:17:59.967
<v Speaker 1>you know, and that's that's like the basically the ultimate

0:18:00.247 --> 0:18:04.247
<v Speaker 1>being a dickhead for me, Yeah, is just basically tuning

0:18:04.287 --> 0:18:06.967
<v Speaker 1>her out and not listening to her because, you know,

0:18:07.607 --> 0:18:11.567
<v Speaker 1>I think it's it's funny because whenever people say, oh,

0:18:11.567 --> 0:18:14.487
<v Speaker 1>what would you go back and tell your younger self?

0:18:14.727 --> 0:18:17.927
<v Speaker 1>Whenever anyone asks me that, now now that you know what,

0:18:17.967 --> 0:18:19.847
<v Speaker 1>you know, what would you go back and tell your

0:18:19.887 --> 0:18:22.607
<v Speaker 1>younger self? And I'm like, well, I'd probably just stay

0:18:22.647 --> 0:18:26.047
<v Speaker 1>here and listen to my younger self more because I

0:18:26.087 --> 0:18:30.327
<v Speaker 1>think because I had this free spirited lifestyle, and I

0:18:30.367 --> 0:18:33.127
<v Speaker 1>think this is really this is where my life early

0:18:33.167 --> 0:18:35.887
<v Speaker 1>on was quite different than most people's. You know, I

0:18:35.887 --> 0:18:39.287
<v Speaker 1>grew up in the outback with my family for the

0:18:39.327 --> 0:18:42.567
<v Speaker 1>first ten years of my life, living this free spirited

0:18:42.607 --> 0:18:46.367
<v Speaker 1>lifestyle where it is nothing like what a lot of

0:18:46.407 --> 0:18:49.407
<v Speaker 1>people are getting nowadays. It's not even like what my

0:18:49.567 --> 0:18:51.687
<v Speaker 1>children are getting, and they're getting a bit of free

0:18:51.727 --> 0:18:55.487
<v Speaker 1>spirited lifestyle with traveling and touring with me, but it's

0:18:55.527 --> 0:18:58.767
<v Speaker 1>still not like that. I mean, this is before obviously

0:18:58.807 --> 0:19:02.847
<v Speaker 1>social media and all of this world, but even a

0:19:02.887 --> 0:19:05.767
<v Speaker 1>step away from that. I wasn't even getting the things,

0:19:06.607 --> 0:19:09.047
<v Speaker 1>all the influences and the judgment and that sort of

0:19:09.087 --> 0:19:12.207
<v Speaker 1>thing that any other kid was getting of my age

0:19:12.247 --> 0:19:15.567
<v Speaker 1>as well. We were just living this free spirited lifestyle

0:19:15.607 --> 0:19:19.967
<v Speaker 1>with these kind of hippie parents that just let us

0:19:20.087 --> 0:19:22.647
<v Speaker 1>just be whoever we wanted to be. And my parents

0:19:22.647 --> 0:19:26.087
<v Speaker 1>are still like it. You know, there's still I'm so

0:19:26.087 --> 0:19:28.927
<v Speaker 1>so grateful of this that there was no be on

0:19:29.007 --> 0:19:31.367
<v Speaker 1>your best behavior and say the right things in front

0:19:31.367 --> 0:19:34.527
<v Speaker 1>of these people. Whenever I tell myself that I have

0:19:34.647 --> 0:19:37.367
<v Speaker 1>to be a certain way or none of that is

0:19:37.407 --> 0:19:40.047
<v Speaker 1>from what I've been taught as a child. All of

0:19:40.087 --> 0:19:43.927
<v Speaker 1>that is learnt from being a part of society, and

0:19:43.967 --> 0:19:48.087
<v Speaker 1>that's you. We're all told, particularly women are told this

0:19:48.127 --> 0:19:49.447
<v Speaker 1>is how we're supposed to be.

0:19:54.007 --> 0:19:56.047
<v Speaker 2>I'll be back with more of Casey Chambers in a moment.

0:19:56.247 --> 0:19:58.007
<v Speaker 2>She's going to tell me about co parenting with her

0:19:58.087 --> 0:20:00.087
<v Speaker 2>two x's, but until then, here's.

0:19:59.927 --> 0:20:00.527
<v Speaker 3>A little break.

0:20:02.767 --> 0:20:04.727
<v Speaker 2>One of the lessons that I loved and I want

0:20:04.727 --> 0:20:07.087
<v Speaker 2>to talk to about in regards to kind of aging

0:20:07.127 --> 0:20:09.047
<v Speaker 2>and the women listening to this. When I grow up,

0:20:09.047 --> 0:20:11.767
<v Speaker 2>I want to be a kid again. You said, where

0:20:11.767 --> 0:20:13.807
<v Speaker 2>he says one of your your sort of lessons in

0:20:13.847 --> 0:20:15.647
<v Speaker 2>the book, which is kind of what you're just saying

0:20:15.647 --> 0:20:18.207
<v Speaker 2>about wanting to get back to that free spirit. I

0:20:18.287 --> 0:20:20.567
<v Speaker 2>was also thinking because in the book, when you described

0:20:20.567 --> 0:20:23.327
<v Speaker 2>those early days and your dad was earning a living

0:20:23.407 --> 0:20:27.447
<v Speaker 2>hunting feral foxes and things. You're traveling, you write a

0:20:27.447 --> 0:20:29.567
<v Speaker 2>little list of rules that you had as a kid,

0:20:29.647 --> 0:20:31.207
<v Speaker 2>and they were like, don't.

0:20:31.047 --> 0:20:31.887
<v Speaker 3>Touch the rifles.

0:20:32.847 --> 0:20:33.047
<v Speaker 1>Oh.

0:20:33.327 --> 0:20:36.447
<v Speaker 2>I know, it was not like normal, it's not normal

0:20:36.487 --> 0:20:38.727
<v Speaker 2>and inverted commers. But I wonder if that free spirit

0:20:38.767 --> 0:20:41.367
<v Speaker 2>in this must have made it really a big shock

0:20:41.407 --> 0:20:43.607
<v Speaker 2>when you were suddenly like you go to school at

0:20:43.607 --> 0:20:46.687
<v Speaker 2>different points and you're like, whoa sare's a lot like

0:20:48.047 --> 0:20:48.767
<v Speaker 2>so much.

0:20:48.807 --> 0:20:53.087
<v Speaker 1>It was really particularly going to high school for me,

0:20:53.247 --> 0:20:56.367
<v Speaker 1>because that's when we really stopped, you know, having that

0:20:56.447 --> 0:21:00.087
<v Speaker 1>nomadic sort of lifestyle, free spirited lifestyle. I went to

0:21:00.167 --> 0:21:02.407
<v Speaker 1>high school and I was like, oh my god, what

0:21:02.487 --> 0:21:06.487
<v Speaker 1>the hell is this? And not only like structure, having

0:21:06.527 --> 0:21:08.287
<v Speaker 1>structure in my life where you had to be at

0:21:08.287 --> 0:21:10.127
<v Speaker 1>a class at a certain time or whatever I mean

0:21:10.167 --> 0:21:13.367
<v Speaker 1>I did. I was homeschooled around a campfire. We did

0:21:13.367 --> 0:21:16.327
<v Speaker 1>like an hour of schooling in the morning was about

0:21:16.367 --> 0:21:19.247
<v Speaker 1>it and then we move on and whatever. So then

0:21:19.527 --> 0:21:21.687
<v Speaker 1>high school was quite a shock for me.

0:21:22.407 --> 0:21:24.687
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that is where a lot of people start

0:21:24.767 --> 0:21:27.487
<v Speaker 2>learning about, Oh, I've got to make myself smaller, I've

0:21:27.527 --> 0:21:29.167
<v Speaker 2>got to fit in this box. I've got to please

0:21:29.247 --> 0:21:31.527
<v Speaker 2>those people. High school is where a lot of us

0:21:31.607 --> 0:21:33.527
<v Speaker 2>first get all.

0:21:33.407 --> 0:21:36.807
<v Speaker 1>That input, isn't it just And I have a daughter

0:21:36.887 --> 0:21:40.887
<v Speaker 1>that's that's going through this right now. She is in

0:21:40.927 --> 0:21:43.007
<v Speaker 1>her first year of high school at the moment, you know,

0:21:43.807 --> 0:21:47.367
<v Speaker 1>and you know, she's a real little free spirit as well,

0:21:47.447 --> 0:21:49.567
<v Speaker 1>and it's just one of those things that I'm just

0:21:49.727 --> 0:21:52.967
<v Speaker 1>so aware of that I don't want her to dull

0:21:52.967 --> 0:21:57.567
<v Speaker 1>that free spirit because of all the judgment now. And

0:21:58.167 --> 0:22:00.647
<v Speaker 1>she's not on social media or anything. All of her

0:22:00.647 --> 0:22:04.327
<v Speaker 1>friends are. She's the only girl in her group that

0:22:04.487 --> 0:22:07.887
<v Speaker 1>is not on social media or which she's handling very

0:22:07.887 --> 0:22:10.687
<v Speaker 1>well so far, which I'm loving. And she said to me,

0:22:10.967 --> 0:22:12.447
<v Speaker 1>I even asked her about it the other day, and

0:22:12.487 --> 0:22:14.887
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, how are you feeling about that? You know,

0:22:14.927 --> 0:22:17.607
<v Speaker 1>because we talk about it, and I talk to her about,

0:22:17.767 --> 0:22:20.927
<v Speaker 1>you know, things of why she's not on it and

0:22:21.407 --> 0:22:24.527
<v Speaker 1>why I prefer it if she's not at this point,

0:22:24.727 --> 0:22:27.927
<v Speaker 1>you know, and so far, it's it's been quite easy

0:22:27.927 --> 0:22:30.367
<v Speaker 1>because she's kind of like, I don't really want to.

0:22:30.487 --> 0:22:33.207
<v Speaker 1>She's like, every time my friends are on social media,

0:22:33.567 --> 0:22:36.007
<v Speaker 1>they don't talk to me in person anymore, Like they'll

0:22:36.047 --> 0:22:37.967
<v Speaker 1>go and see on their phone and then no one

0:22:38.047 --> 0:22:40.927
<v Speaker 1>talks to me, and I'm not, She's like, and so

0:22:40.967 --> 0:22:43.167
<v Speaker 1>she kind of sees it as a negative thing right now.

0:22:43.247 --> 0:22:45.687
<v Speaker 1>So that's an easy one to get over the line.

0:22:45.727 --> 0:22:48.447
<v Speaker 1>But I know the conversations are going to get harder,

0:22:48.607 --> 0:22:51.487
<v Speaker 1>and you know that that's gonna Yeah, I'll be a

0:22:51.487 --> 0:22:52.207
<v Speaker 1>lot harder to it.

0:22:52.367 --> 0:22:55.247
<v Speaker 2>It is tricky because it's just so much input. But

0:22:55.447 --> 0:22:57.287
<v Speaker 2>I wanted when you were when I grew up. I

0:22:57.287 --> 0:22:58.647
<v Speaker 2>want to be a kid again. And then I was

0:22:58.727 --> 0:23:02.207
<v Speaker 2>also listening to your song with Paul Kelly when We're

0:23:02.207 --> 0:23:05.167
<v Speaker 2>Old and Madden. In that video you're like riding around

0:23:05.207 --> 0:23:07.487
<v Speaker 2>on bikes like being crazy. Do you think that the

0:23:07.607 --> 0:23:11.007
<v Speaker 2>real anti ageing? You know, like we're all told it

0:23:11.087 --> 0:23:12.807
<v Speaker 2>talked about anti aging all the time, and I want

0:23:12.847 --> 0:23:15.007
<v Speaker 2>to read out some of your amazing words about that soon.

0:23:15.087 --> 0:23:18.127
<v Speaker 2>But do you think the real anti aging secret is

0:23:18.167 --> 0:23:22.247
<v Speaker 2>to hold on to that playfulness, that curiosity, that don't

0:23:22.287 --> 0:23:24.927
<v Speaker 2>give a fuck attitude. Do you think that's really what

0:23:24.967 --> 0:23:27.647
<v Speaker 2>we should be focusing on when we talk about aging.

0:23:27.807 --> 0:23:33.047
<v Speaker 1>So much, because you know, like most I mean, maybe

0:23:33.127 --> 0:23:35.567
<v Speaker 1>it's changing a little bit these days, but I think

0:23:35.567 --> 0:23:38.207
<v Speaker 1>of myself in the first ten years of my life,

0:23:39.487 --> 0:23:42.567
<v Speaker 1>I could not have cared less what I look like,

0:23:43.287 --> 0:23:45.727
<v Speaker 1>you know, Like I know that. I know that it's

0:23:45.767 --> 0:23:48.207
<v Speaker 1>a little different now in with girls and they're and

0:23:48.247 --> 0:23:50.887
<v Speaker 1>they're you know, caring about that stuff a lot earlier

0:23:50.927 --> 0:23:53.007
<v Speaker 1>than what they did when I was a kid. But

0:23:53.647 --> 0:23:56.527
<v Speaker 1>it is it's that full circle. And it's so funny,

0:23:56.527 --> 0:23:58.927
<v Speaker 1>isn't it, Because then as we get older, a lot

0:23:58.967 --> 0:24:01.287
<v Speaker 1>of us end up going, oh, what was I so

0:24:01.567 --> 0:24:04.167
<v Speaker 1>worried about? Why am I spending so much of my

0:24:04.447 --> 0:24:08.727
<v Speaker 1>energy worrying about how many wrinkles I have on my face?

0:24:08.847 --> 0:24:11.207
<v Speaker 1>You know? So it's coming all the way back to

0:24:11.287 --> 0:24:14.807
<v Speaker 1>how we used to think about ourselves as children, because

0:24:15.127 --> 0:24:18.007
<v Speaker 1>we weren't taught yet to care about that or to

0:24:18.247 --> 0:24:24.527
<v Speaker 1>identify as that, you know. And so again I want

0:24:24.567 --> 0:24:27.167
<v Speaker 1>to go back and be I want the free spirit

0:24:27.247 --> 0:24:29.567
<v Speaker 1>I had when I was a kid, and I think

0:24:30.247 --> 0:24:34.007
<v Speaker 1>when I tune into her as a forty eight year

0:24:34.007 --> 0:24:37.607
<v Speaker 1>old woman now that is when I'm the happiest in

0:24:37.647 --> 0:24:38.167
<v Speaker 1>my life.

0:24:38.447 --> 0:24:41.007
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I need to read you this bit about this

0:24:41.287 --> 0:24:45.127
<v Speaker 2>thing because this is from your book and it's It

0:24:45.207 --> 0:24:47.727
<v Speaker 2>really touched me because it's something I'm really trying to

0:24:47.767 --> 0:24:49.927
<v Speaker 2>do and lots of women I know are trying to do.

0:24:49.967 --> 0:24:52.647
<v Speaker 2>And you wrote this is so lovely. This but you wrote,

0:24:52.687 --> 0:24:55.007
<v Speaker 2>We're all getting older every single day, every single minute.

0:24:55.007 --> 0:24:58.087
<v Speaker 2>It's inevitable. It's a shared similarity that we all have,

0:24:58.167 --> 0:25:00.367
<v Speaker 2>whether we like it or not. We're taught to fight it.

0:25:00.687 --> 0:25:02.527
<v Speaker 2>We're told that it's a negative thing and that we

0:25:02.527 --> 0:25:05.047
<v Speaker 2>should resist it at all costs. We are trained to

0:25:05.127 --> 0:25:07.287
<v Speaker 2>keep the battle against it alive for as long as

0:25:07.287 --> 0:25:10.807
<v Speaker 2>we possibly can. We condition to believe that youth equals

0:25:10.847 --> 0:25:13.967
<v Speaker 2>beauty and aging represents losing that beauty. This is the

0:25:13.967 --> 0:25:16.927
<v Speaker 2>bit I love. But what if they are wrong? What

0:25:16.967 --> 0:25:20.087
<v Speaker 2>if they're so wrong it's actually the exact opposite. What

0:25:20.127 --> 0:25:23.367
<v Speaker 2>if our true beauty lies within our aging experience. What

0:25:23.487 --> 0:25:26.447
<v Speaker 2>if I simply choose not to believe what I'm told anymore?

0:25:26.887 --> 0:25:28.887
<v Speaker 2>What if I choose to see getting older as the

0:25:28.927 --> 0:25:32.007
<v Speaker 2>most beautiful and empowering thing that could ever happen to me.

0:25:32.567 --> 0:25:35.087
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes when I look in the mirror. Now, if I

0:25:35.127 --> 0:25:37.567
<v Speaker 2>look through the eyes of my heart instead of the

0:25:37.607 --> 0:25:41.087
<v Speaker 2>eyes of society, I don't just see lines. I just

0:25:42.367 --> 0:25:47.567
<v Speaker 2>love that looking at your face through your lens and

0:25:47.647 --> 0:25:50.647
<v Speaker 2>not society's lens. And what if they are wrong?

0:25:52.247 --> 0:25:57.847
<v Speaker 1>I just sorry. I've never heard anyone read my book

0:25:57.967 --> 0:25:58.407
<v Speaker 1>back to me.

0:26:00.767 --> 0:26:03.927
<v Speaker 2>I love those words. Casey really touched me. It actually

0:26:03.967 --> 0:26:06.167
<v Speaker 2>made me. When I was prepping for this and I

0:26:06.207 --> 0:26:09.047
<v Speaker 2>was reading that bit, it actually made me teary, Like you,

0:26:12.767 --> 0:26:14.407
<v Speaker 2>why does it affect us so much?

0:26:14.487 --> 0:26:15.047
<v Speaker 1>This stuff?

0:26:15.047 --> 0:26:17.047
<v Speaker 2>It's so interesting, the aging stuff, Like.

0:26:17.087 --> 0:26:23.367
<v Speaker 1>Look, I think I think that is at the very least.

0:26:23.727 --> 0:26:28.607
<v Speaker 1>I hope that there is someone out there that reads

0:26:28.687 --> 0:26:33.207
<v Speaker 1>that and goes, oh yeah, hang on, maybe we can

0:26:33.447 --> 0:26:38.007
<v Speaker 1>question what we're being told because it's not I'm not

0:26:38.127 --> 0:26:42.927
<v Speaker 1>even saying I'm not saying everybody's wrong, don't listen to society,

0:26:43.007 --> 0:26:45.367
<v Speaker 1>don't go on social media. I'm not saying any of that.

0:26:45.487 --> 0:26:50.487
<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying for me, when I think about it,

0:26:50.487 --> 0:26:55.127
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't resonate. It actually doesn't resonate with my inner voice,

0:26:55.367 --> 0:26:59.767
<v Speaker 1>like my inner Folkhorn is actually saying, nah, we actually

0:26:59.807 --> 0:27:03.247
<v Speaker 1>don't want to fight aging. So and I buy into it.

0:27:03.327 --> 0:27:06.807
<v Speaker 1>Trust me. I'm not saying I don't like. I sit

0:27:06.927 --> 0:27:10.447
<v Speaker 1>there and I'll sit on social media sometimes and I'll go, oh,

0:27:10.487 --> 0:27:14.847
<v Speaker 1>my god, she looks so beautiful and I wish I

0:27:14.887 --> 0:27:16.967
<v Speaker 1>was a couple of size as smaller so I could

0:27:17.007 --> 0:27:20.087
<v Speaker 1>look like that in that dress. And I will say, oh,

0:27:20.167 --> 0:27:24.047
<v Speaker 1>I should buy that skincare because you know, her face

0:27:24.087 --> 0:27:28.087
<v Speaker 1>looks flawless, and so I do. I do, and I

0:27:28.127 --> 0:27:30.887
<v Speaker 1>even buy it sometimes. Do I get me wrong. I'm

0:27:30.927 --> 0:27:35.567
<v Speaker 1>not saying, of course we all do. I do. I

0:27:35.607 --> 0:27:38.407
<v Speaker 1>am affected by that stuff, and sometimes, you know, I

0:27:38.447 --> 0:27:41.567
<v Speaker 1>get caught up in it. But if I if I

0:27:41.647 --> 0:27:46.447
<v Speaker 1>ask myself the question, do I believe it? And I

0:27:46.647 --> 0:27:49.207
<v Speaker 1>just don't. You know, I really don't because I look

0:27:49.247 --> 0:27:54.647
<v Speaker 1>at my mom and I see everything. I see all

0:27:54.687 --> 0:27:59.167
<v Speaker 1>the lines on her face, and it reminds me of

0:27:59.247 --> 0:28:03.127
<v Speaker 1>all of the incredible travels. My Mum's traveled so much

0:28:03.647 --> 0:28:08.207
<v Speaker 1>over the world, and she's been through a divorce that

0:28:08.487 --> 0:28:13.247
<v Speaker 1>absolutely stated her. And she's been through, you know, losing

0:28:13.847 --> 0:28:17.607
<v Speaker 1>close friends, and she's been through so much and it

0:28:17.727 --> 0:28:21.127
<v Speaker 1>all shows on her face. But it shows as beauty,

0:28:21.327 --> 0:28:25.247
<v Speaker 1>it shows as experience, and when I look at her,

0:28:26.607 --> 0:28:29.727
<v Speaker 1>I don't see an old woman. I don't see an

0:28:29.807 --> 0:28:33.847
<v Speaker 1>old you know, woman that's lost her beauty. I see

0:28:34.127 --> 0:28:38.807
<v Speaker 1>everything she's been through and it is beautiful. It's so

0:28:38.887 --> 0:28:42.607
<v Speaker 1>beautiful to look at. And I hope that my daughter

0:28:42.727 --> 0:28:46.247
<v Speaker 1>sees that in my face. I don't want her to

0:28:46.287 --> 0:28:50.927
<v Speaker 1>look into my face and see botox or you know,

0:28:52.207 --> 0:28:56.047
<v Speaker 1>I don't want her to see me fighting against something

0:28:56.087 --> 0:28:59.047
<v Speaker 1>that's so natural and if I just choose to see

0:28:59.047 --> 0:29:03.207
<v Speaker 1>it another way can be so so beautiful. That's what

0:29:03.287 --> 0:29:05.447
<v Speaker 1>I want my daughter to see in my face.

0:29:06.327 --> 0:29:08.687
<v Speaker 2>That's so beautiful. Because when you just said that, and

0:29:08.727 --> 0:29:10.487
<v Speaker 2>he said, i'd wanted to look in my face and

0:29:10.567 --> 0:29:14.447
<v Speaker 2>see the first thing I thought was fear, like fear

0:29:15.167 --> 0:29:16.887
<v Speaker 2>of aging, Like I don't want to look at my

0:29:16.887 --> 0:29:19.007
<v Speaker 2>face and see her going like I'm not enough. I'm

0:29:19.007 --> 0:29:21.767
<v Speaker 2>not enough. I'm not But you wrote a song for

0:29:21.847 --> 0:29:24.247
<v Speaker 2>your mum about that, didn't you. I'm not gonna haven't

0:29:24.287 --> 0:29:25.687
<v Speaker 2>got the lyrics in front of me. It's gonna annoy

0:29:25.727 --> 0:29:27.327
<v Speaker 2>me that I don't. But about what the lines in

0:29:27.367 --> 0:29:29.167
<v Speaker 2>her face reflected back?

0:29:42.047 --> 0:29:44.767
<v Speaker 1>Your place? Anything?

0:29:47.247 --> 0:29:47.847
<v Speaker 2>What was it?

0:29:48.167 --> 0:29:50.727
<v Speaker 1>Do you know what's funny? The song isn't about that.

0:29:50.887 --> 0:29:53.087
<v Speaker 1>It's a song that I wrote for her for Mother's Day.

0:29:53.167 --> 0:29:55.647
<v Speaker 1>It's called mother It's from years ago. It's from like

0:29:55.767 --> 0:29:59.207
<v Speaker 1>my third or fourth album, and it's not about that.

0:29:59.287 --> 0:30:01.567
<v Speaker 1>It was never meant to be any statement or I

0:30:01.647 --> 0:30:05.127
<v Speaker 1>wasn't trying to tell her, you know, anything or whatever.

0:30:05.167 --> 0:30:07.487
<v Speaker 1>It was just it was a present for Mother's Day.

0:30:08.007 --> 0:30:11.207
<v Speaker 1>And but one of the lines in the song says,

0:30:11.927 --> 0:30:14.967
<v Speaker 1>you light a room with the lines on your face, right,

0:30:15.047 --> 0:30:16.727
<v Speaker 1>And I didn't think anything of it. I just put

0:30:16.767 --> 0:30:18.847
<v Speaker 1>it in the song and it sounded beautiful when I

0:30:18.887 --> 0:30:23.327
<v Speaker 1>sang it. And she told me, this is really funny though,

0:30:23.367 --> 0:30:26.847
<v Speaker 1>because this was after I had finished the book and

0:30:27.447 --> 0:30:31.927
<v Speaker 1>she was reading about the bit about me talking about

0:30:32.007 --> 0:30:36.367
<v Speaker 1>how I think that lines on my face are beautiful

0:30:36.487 --> 0:30:39.847
<v Speaker 1>and that it shows your experience. And she said to me,

0:30:41.167 --> 0:30:43.887
<v Speaker 1>you know, when you wrote that song for me, it

0:30:44.087 --> 0:30:47.127
<v Speaker 1>changed the way I look at myself in the mirror

0:30:47.247 --> 0:30:50.247
<v Speaker 1>because you saw it as such a beautiful thing and

0:30:50.287 --> 0:30:53.047
<v Speaker 1>you put it into your song, and it made me

0:30:53.367 --> 0:30:56.327
<v Speaker 1>change the way that I saw my own face. And

0:30:56.367 --> 0:30:58.447
<v Speaker 1>she said, I think of that every time I look

0:30:58.447 --> 0:31:00.887
<v Speaker 1>in the mirror. So I went back and added that

0:31:00.927 --> 0:31:04.487
<v Speaker 1>little story into my book because I just thought, not

0:31:04.687 --> 0:31:08.567
<v Speaker 1>only is it a beautiful thing that it helped her

0:31:08.607 --> 0:31:11.727
<v Speaker 1>to be able to see herself differently. It also shows

0:31:11.767 --> 0:31:15.967
<v Speaker 1>the power of what one thing that you say or sing,

0:31:16.647 --> 0:31:19.927
<v Speaker 1>but what one thing you say to another human can

0:31:20.047 --> 0:31:22.607
<v Speaker 1>actually change the way they think about themselves.

0:31:26.567 --> 0:31:29.007
<v Speaker 2>I'll be back with more from Casey Chambers in a moment,

0:31:29.327 --> 0:31:32.167
<v Speaker 2>including the pearl of wisdom that I scribbled down the

0:31:32.247 --> 0:31:37.487
<v Speaker 2>minute it came out of her mouth, that story about

0:31:37.487 --> 0:31:39.607
<v Speaker 2>your mum, and this line you've written in the book

0:31:39.887 --> 0:31:42.447
<v Speaker 2>about when you try and look through the eyes of

0:31:42.487 --> 0:31:45.167
<v Speaker 2>your heart. It also tells you something about a perspective shift.

0:31:45.687 --> 0:31:48.367
<v Speaker 2>But it's interesting what you were just saying about everybody

0:31:49.007 --> 0:31:52.847
<v Speaker 2>shouting at each other, because in your list of definitions

0:31:52.847 --> 0:31:55.407
<v Speaker 2>of being a dickhead, you obviously you talk quite a

0:31:55.447 --> 0:31:57.087
<v Speaker 2>bit in the book in different places, and then it

0:31:57.127 --> 0:32:00.127
<v Speaker 2>is in your list about the kind of difference. Being

0:32:00.167 --> 0:32:04.287
<v Speaker 2>strong doesn't make you an asshole, but being kind doesn't

0:32:04.327 --> 0:32:06.767
<v Speaker 2>have to mean abandoning yourself. Like there's a bit of

0:32:06.807 --> 0:32:09.887
<v Speaker 2>a through line here about speaking up for you yourself,

0:32:10.607 --> 0:32:14.127
<v Speaker 2>but not bullying with it, not being an arsehole about it,

0:32:14.167 --> 0:32:15.887
<v Speaker 2>and that I think that that is a line that.

0:32:15.807 --> 0:32:17.847
<v Speaker 3>People are struggling with a lot at the moment.

0:32:18.167 --> 0:32:20.087
<v Speaker 1>I struggle with it. That's why I had to put

0:32:20.167 --> 0:32:24.447
<v Speaker 1>it in because I do struggle with it, and you know,

0:32:24.607 --> 0:32:30.167
<v Speaker 1>particularly the one about being kind and abandoning yourself, and

0:32:30.327 --> 0:32:33.167
<v Speaker 1>I actually think of it every time I you know,

0:32:33.327 --> 0:32:36.807
<v Speaker 1>see people put on social media and that be kind

0:32:37.367 --> 0:32:40.127
<v Speaker 1>that is, you know, the bottom line. Everyone has to

0:32:40.167 --> 0:32:45.047
<v Speaker 1>be kind to everybody, and that that can be above everything,

0:32:45.127 --> 0:32:48.287
<v Speaker 1>you know. And on one hand, I think there are

0:32:48.407 --> 0:32:51.527
<v Speaker 1>kind ways to deliver things and to say things and

0:32:51.847 --> 0:32:54.647
<v Speaker 1>to get your point across and all of that. But

0:32:54.687 --> 0:32:57.927
<v Speaker 1>there's a real fine line between that and abandoning yourself.

0:32:57.927 --> 0:33:00.567
<v Speaker 1>And it's another thing that I do try and teach

0:33:00.647 --> 0:33:05.207
<v Speaker 1>my daughter that yeah, you can use your manners and

0:33:05.767 --> 0:33:09.847
<v Speaker 1>you know, be kind and be you know, helpful, supportive

0:33:09.887 --> 0:33:12.927
<v Speaker 1>and nice to people and blah blah blah. But if

0:33:13.007 --> 0:33:16.167
<v Speaker 1>it means that you're abandoning who you are, that's not

0:33:16.327 --> 0:33:20.487
<v Speaker 1>being kind anymore. You know that it's not about that anymore.

0:33:20.487 --> 0:33:23.967
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't become about that anymore. It's about listening to

0:33:24.007 --> 0:33:27.807
<v Speaker 1>that in a voice and going, well, if I stand

0:33:27.887 --> 0:33:31.927
<v Speaker 1>up for myself here, am I going to offend somebody?

0:33:31.967 --> 0:33:34.327
<v Speaker 1>You know? So that's just it is a fine line

0:33:34.367 --> 0:33:37.167
<v Speaker 1>and it's one that I struggle with, honestly I do.

0:33:37.847 --> 0:33:40.647
<v Speaker 2>I think we all do. But to the back to

0:33:40.807 --> 0:33:43.007
<v Speaker 2>the strength and the lessons that show on our face

0:33:43.007 --> 0:33:45.847
<v Speaker 2>and then all bits of us. Another song, ain't no

0:33:45.927 --> 0:33:51.447
<v Speaker 2>little girl Mine, no.

0:33:53.247 --> 0:34:00.487
<v Speaker 1>Nice crab.

0:34:04.207 --> 0:34:06.207
<v Speaker 2>You've said that song with like the glue for a

0:34:06.247 --> 0:34:09.367
<v Speaker 2>while that held you together almost And it's such a

0:34:09.407 --> 0:34:13.687
<v Speaker 2>powerful like roar of a song almost, But it made

0:34:13.767 --> 0:34:16.127
<v Speaker 2>me think about the most of us, and including you,

0:34:16.167 --> 0:34:17.647
<v Speaker 2>when we get to this phase of our life. We've

0:34:17.647 --> 0:34:20.327
<v Speaker 2>been through some storms, right, a lot of storms. You

0:34:20.367 --> 0:34:23.207
<v Speaker 2>have been very open about talking about having an eating

0:34:23.207 --> 0:34:27.127
<v Speaker 2>disorder and coming back from that. You've dealt with relationship breakdowns,

0:34:27.127 --> 0:34:29.247
<v Speaker 2>You've dealt with by the sounds in your book, sort

0:34:29.247 --> 0:34:32.607
<v Speaker 2>of perfectionism, and you know, keeping everything moving all the time.

0:34:32.647 --> 0:34:34.607
<v Speaker 2>You know, you've had to learn a lot of lessons

0:34:34.647 --> 0:34:39.367
<v Speaker 2>about all that. Do you feel now like all those

0:34:39.567 --> 0:34:43.807
<v Speaker 2>storms have made you this powerful like I ain't no

0:34:43.927 --> 0:34:46.887
<v Speaker 2>little girl person? Do you feel like that every day? Oh?

0:34:47.167 --> 0:34:50.447
<v Speaker 1>Ah, No, I don't feel like her every day? Definitely not.

0:34:50.647 --> 0:34:52.287
<v Speaker 2>It might be good to have a song to sing

0:34:52.367 --> 0:34:53.487
<v Speaker 2>to make you feel like her.

0:34:53.687 --> 0:34:57.807
<v Speaker 1>I do think she's there every day. She's absolutely in

0:34:57.847 --> 0:35:01.047
<v Speaker 1>me every day. I just don't tune into her every day,

0:35:02.287 --> 0:35:05.367
<v Speaker 1>so I think I am her. I just don't think

0:35:05.407 --> 0:35:07.087
<v Speaker 1>I vibe like her day.

0:35:07.207 --> 0:35:10.327
<v Speaker 2>You know, sometimes though, at the stage in our life,

0:35:10.607 --> 0:35:12.447
<v Speaker 2>these things that we've been through and survive can come

0:35:12.487 --> 0:35:14.087
<v Speaker 2>back and bart us on the ass too, right, Like

0:35:14.167 --> 0:35:17.167
<v Speaker 2>hormones are going all over the place, and sometimes something

0:35:17.247 --> 0:35:18.967
<v Speaker 2>pops up and you're like, I thought we've dealt with that.

0:35:19.367 --> 0:35:20.727
<v Speaker 3>Have you had that experience?

0:35:21.047 --> 0:35:24.847
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think we changed too, And I love that.

0:35:25.007 --> 0:35:27.607
<v Speaker 1>I love that we change. But then sometimes it makes

0:35:27.647 --> 0:35:30.607
<v Speaker 1>the answer different that you end up with and you

0:35:30.647 --> 0:35:32.687
<v Speaker 1>didn't learn the way to deal with it back then.

0:35:33.007 --> 0:35:35.567
<v Speaker 1>That might have worked for them might not work now

0:35:35.647 --> 0:35:38.087
<v Speaker 1>with who you are now, and it might not work

0:35:38.087 --> 0:35:40.367
<v Speaker 1>in ten years time. If you go through the same thing,

0:35:40.447 --> 0:35:42.167
<v Speaker 1>you might need to deal with it in a different way.

0:35:42.247 --> 0:35:46.287
<v Speaker 1>So I think I had to go through a marriage

0:35:46.287 --> 0:35:49.887
<v Speaker 1>breakdown to figure out how to be a better person

0:35:49.927 --> 0:35:53.807
<v Speaker 1>in a relationship now, because you know, I wasn't quite

0:35:53.887 --> 0:35:57.007
<v Speaker 1>the person that I convinced myself that I was in

0:35:57.047 --> 0:36:00.247
<v Speaker 1>my marriage, you know, and I've had to really face that.

0:36:00.447 --> 0:36:06.087
<v Speaker 1>So even though it feels uncomfortable, I think I embrace

0:36:06.207 --> 0:36:11.167
<v Speaker 1>the like the discomfort now in situations because I know

0:36:11.407 --> 0:36:13.807
<v Speaker 1>that I'm going to learn something for it from it.

0:36:13.887 --> 0:36:16.567
<v Speaker 1>And it doesn't always make you feel better at the time.

0:36:17.287 --> 0:36:19.487
<v Speaker 1>I get that, but at least it's a little reminder

0:36:19.567 --> 0:36:22.887
<v Speaker 1>in there to go, Okay, you're gonna learn something from

0:36:22.887 --> 0:36:25.407
<v Speaker 1>this along the way, and at least you can hang

0:36:25.487 --> 0:36:29.607
<v Speaker 1>on to that just a little bit and maybe not

0:36:29.767 --> 0:36:31.527
<v Speaker 1>let it swallow you up.

0:36:32.807 --> 0:36:35.807
<v Speaker 2>Do you have to be quite vigilant to keep on

0:36:35.847 --> 0:36:38.407
<v Speaker 2>top of your mental and physical health and stuff, well,

0:36:38.487 --> 0:36:40.527
<v Speaker 2>especially when you're busy and you're touring and all those things.

0:36:40.527 --> 0:36:43.927
<v Speaker 2>Have you learned lessons of how to stop yourself being

0:36:43.967 --> 0:36:46.647
<v Speaker 2>swallowed up that maybe you didn't have when you were younger.

0:36:47.207 --> 0:36:52.247
<v Speaker 1>I have conversations with myself all day every day. I mean,

0:36:52.247 --> 0:36:54.287
<v Speaker 1>that sounds like it's a pretty boring life to have,

0:36:54.367 --> 0:36:58.007
<v Speaker 1>doesn't it. No, you know, it's more just little little things.

0:36:58.047 --> 0:37:02.447
<v Speaker 1>So I don't well, I guess I guess I do

0:37:02.607 --> 0:37:04.727
<v Speaker 1>have some now that you're saying that. You know, I

0:37:05.167 --> 0:37:10.647
<v Speaker 1>try to really eat really healthily and things like that,

0:37:10.767 --> 0:37:15.847
<v Speaker 1>and I hate exercise. Oh my god, it's just like

0:37:15.927 --> 0:37:18.087
<v Speaker 1>it'll it'll just be the thing.

0:37:20.127 --> 0:37:23.287
<v Speaker 3>Do I have to do? I have to just the worst.

0:37:23.447 --> 0:37:27.047
<v Speaker 1>So I'm a fairly like active person, but not when

0:37:27.087 --> 0:37:30.287
<v Speaker 1>it comes to exercise, Like I'm just like, like, I

0:37:30.287 --> 0:37:33.727
<v Speaker 1>don't sit still. I'm not a sitting still person at all.

0:37:33.767 --> 0:37:35.927
<v Speaker 2>You're a meditator, though, aren't you, Didn't I think in

0:37:36.047 --> 0:37:39.487
<v Speaker 2>your book everyone I interview, Casey is telling me I've

0:37:39.527 --> 0:37:40.767
<v Speaker 2>got to meditate, and I'm like.

0:37:40.807 --> 0:37:43.407
<v Speaker 3>Do I do? I really? I find sex still really

0:37:43.407 --> 0:37:44.007
<v Speaker 3>hard to know.

0:37:44.487 --> 0:37:46.527
<v Speaker 1>And you know what you don't have to do. It

0:37:46.607 --> 0:37:49.607
<v Speaker 1>might not be your thing, and that's okay, you know

0:37:49.967 --> 0:37:54.887
<v Speaker 1>that's what I am. Just like I started realizing that

0:37:54.927 --> 0:37:58.087
<v Speaker 1>the more I did that. So I start every day

0:37:58.367 --> 0:38:02.767
<v Speaker 1>with meditation. It's the first thing I do before I

0:38:02.807 --> 0:38:03.767
<v Speaker 1>do anything.

0:38:04.047 --> 0:38:06.207
<v Speaker 2>And has that Has that been a really good change

0:38:06.247 --> 0:38:08.207
<v Speaker 2>for you? Like have you noticed a difference to your

0:38:08.247 --> 0:38:08.967
<v Speaker 2>day if you do that?

0:38:09.607 --> 0:38:13.207
<v Speaker 1>But also I will so if I'm feeling a bit

0:38:13.367 --> 0:38:16.007
<v Speaker 1>like my day is getting away from me, and you

0:38:16.087 --> 0:38:19.287
<v Speaker 1>know that feeling, and I try to recognize this when

0:38:19.287 --> 0:38:22.247
<v Speaker 1>it comes in where you feel like you're being dragged

0:38:22.287 --> 0:38:26.727
<v Speaker 1>around on the day, like by everything else. So you

0:38:26.767 --> 0:38:29.567
<v Speaker 1>know your thoughts are dragging you around, your feelings at

0:38:29.607 --> 0:38:32.567
<v Speaker 1>what somebody else did. So when I start feeling that

0:38:32.807 --> 0:38:36.487
<v Speaker 1>dragged feeling, and often I reckon, this is the time

0:38:36.527 --> 0:38:38.527
<v Speaker 1>where you go, well, I don't have time to meditate

0:38:38.567 --> 0:38:41.527
<v Speaker 1>because I've got so much on, because I'm being dragged around.

0:38:42.087 --> 0:38:45.767
<v Speaker 1>I remind myself, then that is the time you should

0:38:45.887 --> 0:38:48.407
<v Speaker 1>just and you know what, I don't even know, Like

0:38:48.447 --> 0:38:52.007
<v Speaker 1>I know, I feel a little bit like meditation was

0:38:52.047 --> 0:38:54.487
<v Speaker 1>like a bit of a dirty word or something like

0:38:54.487 --> 0:38:57.047
<v Speaker 1>like that. I used to cringe when people would say

0:38:57.047 --> 0:39:00.167
<v Speaker 1>that word. Actually, so in my mind and I do,

0:39:00.367 --> 0:39:02.767
<v Speaker 1>like I say, I start every day with meditation, but

0:39:02.887 --> 0:39:07.207
<v Speaker 1>throughout the day, sometimes I will meditate, but sometimes I

0:39:07.287 --> 0:39:11.927
<v Speaker 1>do just a little grounding for ten minutes or something

0:39:11.967 --> 0:39:15.847
<v Speaker 1>like so it's just to get my breath back, remind

0:39:16.007 --> 0:39:21.047
<v Speaker 1>myself that nothing's dragging me around. These things aren't happening

0:39:21.087 --> 0:39:25.247
<v Speaker 1>to me. You know, stuff is just happening around, and

0:39:25.327 --> 0:39:28.607
<v Speaker 1>I'm still here, and I'm still this centered person. I'm

0:39:28.687 --> 0:39:31.767
<v Speaker 1>just choosing not to be there. That's very good, right.

0:39:32.447 --> 0:39:35.567
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to ask you about family in a few

0:39:35.567 --> 0:39:38.767
<v Speaker 2>different ways in your book when you write about parenting.

0:39:38.847 --> 0:39:40.727
<v Speaker 2>I love how you say I'm a good mom except

0:39:40.767 --> 0:39:46.367
<v Speaker 2>when I'm not, because I'm like, yeah, me too. But

0:39:47.047 --> 0:39:49.567
<v Speaker 2>I think that we're getting better at being kinder to

0:39:49.647 --> 0:39:55.247
<v Speaker 2>ourselves about family and admitting that we're all human. What's

0:39:55.327 --> 0:39:58.167
<v Speaker 2>your biggest sort of struggle in that in the being

0:39:58.167 --> 0:39:59.687
<v Speaker 2>a good mom today box?

0:40:01.367 --> 0:40:04.847
<v Speaker 1>You know what, I actually don't struggle with it heaps.

0:40:04.887 --> 0:40:05.127
<v Speaker 2>Now.

0:40:05.247 --> 0:40:08.127
<v Speaker 1>I just go all right, you're just gonna make some

0:40:08.247 --> 0:40:13.727
<v Speaker 1>bad mistakes and just own them when you do and

0:40:13.967 --> 0:40:16.007
<v Speaker 1>try not to do it again next time. And I

0:40:16.087 --> 0:40:19.727
<v Speaker 1>don't really beat myself up over it at all much anymore.

0:40:20.127 --> 0:40:22.207
<v Speaker 1>But I did used to, and I think I think

0:40:22.247 --> 0:40:24.807
<v Speaker 1>it was more See my kids. So I've got a

0:40:24.847 --> 0:40:27.487
<v Speaker 1>twenty two year old who lives in Perth now and

0:40:27.567 --> 0:40:29.967
<v Speaker 1>so you know, he don't need me no morepa grown up.

0:40:31.447 --> 0:40:34.127
<v Speaker 1>So Talon is my eldest son. Then I've got a

0:40:34.127 --> 0:40:38.247
<v Speaker 1>seventeen year old boy who is just finishing up year

0:40:38.287 --> 0:40:40.887
<v Speaker 1>eleven at the moment, so he's about to go into

0:40:40.927 --> 0:40:44.327
<v Speaker 1>year twelve. And then Poet is in high school, first

0:40:44.407 --> 0:40:46.487
<v Speaker 1>year of high school, and she's twelve.

0:40:46.527 --> 0:40:48.127
<v Speaker 2>You've got to range, and you've been doing it for

0:40:48.167 --> 0:40:48.567
<v Speaker 2>a while.

0:40:49.327 --> 0:40:53.247
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think I'm going out of now being in

0:40:53.447 --> 0:40:56.127
<v Speaker 1>all high school. I actually feel a bit of a

0:40:56.247 --> 0:40:59.287
<v Speaker 1>change from that, and I reckon that some of that

0:40:59.447 --> 0:41:04.687
<v Speaker 1>is because in primary school you're so there's that thing

0:41:04.967 --> 0:41:09.047
<v Speaker 1>of expectation of what mothers are supposed to be like

0:41:10.287 --> 0:41:13.687
<v Speaker 1>in primary school and being so involved in every little

0:41:13.687 --> 0:41:16.327
<v Speaker 1>thing and making sure that your kid is the cleanest

0:41:16.407 --> 0:41:19.727
<v Speaker 1>kid going to school, which mine never was, you know,

0:41:19.767 --> 0:41:22.047
<v Speaker 1>and all of those things. And I think you notice

0:41:22.047 --> 0:41:27.207
<v Speaker 1>them more in primary school because you're more active, Like

0:41:27.247 --> 0:41:30.127
<v Speaker 1>the parent has more of an active role in primary school.

0:41:30.487 --> 0:41:32.807
<v Speaker 1>And I'm noticing that I'm letting God it a lot

0:41:32.807 --> 0:41:36.167
<v Speaker 1>more because the kids are expected now to be doing

0:41:36.207 --> 0:41:38.567
<v Speaker 1>a lot more stuff on their own. That and this

0:41:38.727 --> 0:41:42.527
<v Speaker 1>is part of your independence, and the teachers even expect

0:41:42.607 --> 0:41:45.407
<v Speaker 1>the kids to have more of a responsibility themselves. So

0:41:45.487 --> 0:41:47.887
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, great, I don't have to do as much.

0:41:49.287 --> 0:41:51.767
<v Speaker 2>I'm feeling the same way. My son is finishing primary

0:41:51.807 --> 0:41:54.927
<v Speaker 2>school this year, my youngest, and I'm just like, oh wow,

0:41:54.967 --> 0:41:56.727
<v Speaker 2>I've got all the way through primary school. That no

0:41:56.807 --> 0:41:58.567
<v Speaker 2>more primary school, mom. Not that I was having very

0:41:58.567 --> 0:42:00.487
<v Speaker 2>good at it, but what I wanted to ask you

0:42:00.767 --> 0:42:05.767
<v Speaker 2>was watching them grow and your oldest obviously proper adult. Now,

0:42:06.807 --> 0:42:09.647
<v Speaker 2>is that a beautiful pride? Is there a bit of

0:42:09.967 --> 0:42:12.447
<v Speaker 2>nostalgia and sadness in it. How have you found the

0:42:12.487 --> 0:42:16.047
<v Speaker 2>transition of mothering like children into adults?

0:42:16.447 --> 0:42:19.767
<v Speaker 1>Love it? Love every second of it. It's the best.

0:42:20.367 --> 0:42:23.927
<v Speaker 1>I just so when I say love every second of it,

0:42:24.007 --> 0:42:26.967
<v Speaker 1>I mean like my approach to to watching it happen,

0:42:27.687 --> 0:42:32.767
<v Speaker 1>not every second is good second. And it drives me

0:42:32.967 --> 0:42:36.127
<v Speaker 1>fucking insane. So don't you know, like I'm not saying

0:42:36.167 --> 0:42:40.127
<v Speaker 1>it's all great at all. You know, they're teenagers, so

0:42:40.367 --> 0:42:42.607
<v Speaker 1>you know they do my head in sometimes, of course,

0:42:42.767 --> 0:42:45.007
<v Speaker 1>you know. And and I was saying to someone the

0:42:45.007 --> 0:42:46.847
<v Speaker 1>other day who's got one of my friends has got

0:42:46.927 --> 0:42:50.087
<v Speaker 1>younger kids, and they were like, oh, I can't wait

0:42:50.127 --> 0:42:53.007
<v Speaker 1>till you know your kids age. And I'm like, well

0:42:53.327 --> 0:42:55.287
<v Speaker 1>it is. It is easier in some ways, but you

0:42:55.407 --> 0:42:58.807
<v Speaker 1>just trade one worry for another, now, you know, so

0:42:59.407 --> 0:43:02.567
<v Speaker 1>I do. There's still that because my middle child and

0:43:02.647 --> 0:43:06.047
<v Speaker 1>my second son, Alo just got his peace the other day,

0:43:06.527 --> 0:43:09.447
<v Speaker 1>so only a few weeks ago, and so he so now, well,

0:43:09.647 --> 0:43:11.807
<v Speaker 1>my life used to be that I was just a

0:43:11.847 --> 0:43:15.847
<v Speaker 1>taxi service for him because he loves surfing and skating

0:43:15.887 --> 0:43:17.767
<v Speaker 1>and going out with his friends and all that, and

0:43:18.047 --> 0:43:21.087
<v Speaker 1>it was just me dropping him everywhere. So that was

0:43:21.567 --> 0:43:25.007
<v Speaker 1>my whole parenting life was that. Now I just sit

0:43:25.047 --> 0:43:27.167
<v Speaker 1>at home worrying if he made it to where he

0:43:27.247 --> 0:43:29.567
<v Speaker 1>wanted to go, you know, so it's just trading one

0:43:29.647 --> 0:43:30.487
<v Speaker 1>worry for another.

0:43:31.447 --> 0:43:34.607
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to ask you about co parenting because obviously,

0:43:34.647 --> 0:43:36.527
<v Speaker 2>as you said, you've been doing it for a long time,

0:43:36.567 --> 0:43:38.927
<v Speaker 2>different ways. There'll be people listening to this who are

0:43:38.967 --> 0:43:43.127
<v Speaker 2>co parenting. Have you got advice for them about how

0:43:43.287 --> 0:43:44.207
<v Speaker 2>to make it work?

0:43:44.647 --> 0:43:50.207
<v Speaker 1>Oh? Advice? I don't know about it. Just to take

0:43:50.247 --> 0:43:52.967
<v Speaker 1>yourself out of it, you know. Is that you know,

0:43:53.127 --> 0:43:56.167
<v Speaker 1>like when I was first going through breakups with both

0:43:56.207 --> 0:44:00.447
<v Speaker 1>of my kids' fathers. You know, my eldest son is

0:44:00.487 --> 0:44:03.087
<v Speaker 1>from a previous relationship, and then my other two are

0:44:03.087 --> 0:44:06.687
<v Speaker 1>from my marriage. But if you mix your co parenting

0:44:06.727 --> 0:44:10.767
<v Speaker 1>with your breakup, that is just destined to be shit,

0:44:11.247 --> 0:44:15.567
<v Speaker 1>you know. Like so I think once my ex and

0:44:15.607 --> 0:44:18.527
<v Speaker 1>I let the breakup be one thing over there and

0:44:19.207 --> 0:44:21.447
<v Speaker 1>kept the co parent It's almost like we would have

0:44:21.687 --> 0:44:24.887
<v Speaker 1>conversations about the kids where we'd be really friendly to

0:44:24.967 --> 0:44:27.207
<v Speaker 1>each other and we'd be like, oh, yeah, cool, you

0:44:27.207 --> 0:44:29.207
<v Speaker 1>know you, and then we'd talk about our stuff and

0:44:29.207 --> 0:44:31.287
<v Speaker 1>we'd be like right, I mean'd get this real latitude

0:44:31.367 --> 0:44:34.567
<v Speaker 1>or whatever. But at the very least. It's not like

0:44:34.607 --> 0:44:37.207
<v Speaker 1>that anymore. Obviously we're years down the track now, but

0:44:37.887 --> 0:44:41.007
<v Speaker 1>at the time, you know, at least we could separate

0:44:41.047 --> 0:44:43.847
<v Speaker 1>them and you know, and that was really important. But

0:44:43.887 --> 0:44:47.247
<v Speaker 1>I'm also extremely grateful that I have exes that were

0:44:47.247 --> 0:44:50.447
<v Speaker 1>willing to do that. Not everyone has that. I also

0:44:50.727 --> 0:44:56.927
<v Speaker 1>have a really amazing partner myself, and my ex has

0:44:57.247 --> 0:45:00.887
<v Speaker 1>the most beautiful partner that if I could hand pick,

0:45:01.367 --> 0:45:03.327
<v Speaker 1>you know, who my ex would end up with and

0:45:03.407 --> 0:45:05.767
<v Speaker 1>my kids would have as a step parent, it would

0:45:05.887 --> 0:45:09.647
<v Speaker 1>absolutely be just her, and she's the best. So I'm

0:45:10.167 --> 0:45:13.687
<v Speaker 1>really lucky in that. But I don't know. I mean,

0:45:14.167 --> 0:45:17.047
<v Speaker 1>you know, I have a song on my new album

0:45:17.447 --> 0:45:20.607
<v Speaker 1>that is a duet with my ex husband that is

0:45:20.647 --> 0:45:23.487
<v Speaker 1>called the Divorce Song. His name, Shane Nicholson.

0:45:23.607 --> 0:45:25.327
<v Speaker 2>Because you've played a lot of music together. That was

0:45:25.367 --> 0:45:27.127
<v Speaker 2>a big part of your marriage and your relationship.

0:45:27.567 --> 0:45:30.367
<v Speaker 1>We made records together, and we actually kind of say

0:45:30.407 --> 0:45:33.607
<v Speaker 1>that that those records probably ended up being the demise

0:45:33.647 --> 0:45:37.767
<v Speaker 1>of our marriage. Our second our last album we made

0:45:37.807 --> 0:45:40.527
<v Speaker 1>together was called reck and Ruin, and then we got

0:45:40.527 --> 0:45:43.087
<v Speaker 1>divorced not long after that, and we obviously went through

0:45:43.167 --> 0:45:45.607
<v Speaker 1>our hard times and all of that. But then, you know,

0:45:45.687 --> 0:45:48.287
<v Speaker 1>within these last few years, we've we've realized that we

0:45:48.327 --> 0:45:51.687
<v Speaker 1>actually do divorce way better than we do marriage, and

0:45:51.727 --> 0:45:55.727
<v Speaker 1>that's really where we shine. That's very was beautiful, and

0:45:55.727 --> 0:45:58.407
<v Speaker 1>we wrote a song together called the Divorce Song basically

0:45:58.447 --> 0:46:01.687
<v Speaker 1>about how we do that. But we are very supportive

0:46:01.767 --> 0:46:06.607
<v Speaker 1>partners that are just amazing. So I'm very grateful, very grateful,

0:46:06.607 --> 0:46:10.647
<v Speaker 1>because I know it's not all that easy. But I

0:46:10.687 --> 0:46:12.567
<v Speaker 1>do think some of it is a bit more of

0:46:12.567 --> 0:46:15.447
<v Speaker 1>a choice than what we convince ourselves that it is,

0:46:15.927 --> 0:46:19.287
<v Speaker 1>because I went through that too, where you know, particularly

0:46:19.327 --> 0:46:22.807
<v Speaker 1>after my divorce, I think I convinced myself that I

0:46:22.967 --> 0:46:27.167
<v Speaker 1>was being as stand up and reasonable and adult as

0:46:27.247 --> 0:46:29.527
<v Speaker 1>any person could be. And I look back now and

0:46:29.687 --> 0:46:32.647
<v Speaker 1>I was a dickhead. No, I really was. I really was.

0:46:32.727 --> 0:46:35.327
<v Speaker 1>But we just it's hard to be honest with ourselves

0:46:35.367 --> 0:46:38.447
<v Speaker 1>when we're going through something hard and something painful.

0:46:38.567 --> 0:46:40.487
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of people will resonate with that.

0:46:40.687 --> 0:46:44.567
<v Speaker 2>Just on family. The last thing, Your parents come very

0:46:44.607 --> 0:46:48.647
<v Speaker 2>vividly through this book, and I was wondering, I told

0:46:48.687 --> 0:46:50.807
<v Speaker 2>you before we started that recently I interviewed your friends

0:46:50.887 --> 0:46:53.287
<v Speaker 2>Vicker and Linda Bull, and one of the things that

0:46:53.327 --> 0:46:57.807
<v Speaker 2>they talked about beautifully, like realizing their moving into the

0:46:57.887 --> 0:47:00.647
<v Speaker 2>matriarch role in their families, like as they age and

0:47:00.687 --> 0:47:04.927
<v Speaker 2>the parents are aging, you know, and finding ways and

0:47:04.967 --> 0:47:08.967
<v Speaker 2>traditions to do that differently perhaps, but realizing that you're

0:47:08.967 --> 0:47:14.367
<v Speaker 2>become the elders. You've got a chapter about embracing change

0:47:14.407 --> 0:47:17.527
<v Speaker 2>and respecting traditions and stuff, But how are you finding

0:47:17.727 --> 0:47:20.167
<v Speaker 2>that shift. You've talked about your parents and that they're

0:47:20.207 --> 0:47:24.127
<v Speaker 2>still as free spirited as ever, but how is watching

0:47:24.167 --> 0:47:26.687
<v Speaker 2>them age and supporting them through it?

0:47:28.247 --> 0:47:30.367
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's I guess it's a bit different for

0:47:30.487 --> 0:47:33.967
<v Speaker 1>me because I still work with my parents as well,

0:47:34.087 --> 0:47:36.487
<v Speaker 1>so I actually think we have a bit of a

0:47:36.527 --> 0:47:41.727
<v Speaker 1>different dynamic anyway. I mean at different times, Like my

0:47:41.807 --> 0:47:45.007
<v Speaker 1>mom is really involved in helping out with my kids

0:47:45.047 --> 0:47:47.047
<v Speaker 1>and things like that, you know, so she takes on

0:47:47.087 --> 0:47:51.527
<v Speaker 1>this real grandmother role that she absolutely loves and my

0:47:51.687 --> 0:47:54.047
<v Speaker 1>kids love, and it helps me out obviously, and it's

0:47:54.087 --> 0:47:58.727
<v Speaker 1>a beautiful relationship to watch. And then my dad plays

0:47:58.727 --> 0:48:01.687
<v Speaker 1>in my band as well, and he plays guitar in

0:48:01.727 --> 0:48:04.407
<v Speaker 1>my band. He has for basically my whole career really,

0:48:04.967 --> 0:48:07.727
<v Speaker 1>and so when we're out on the road, which is

0:48:07.727 --> 0:48:10.927
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the time. We often travel together too,

0:48:11.047 --> 0:48:13.327
<v Speaker 1>as in, you know, my partner and my kids and

0:48:13.367 --> 0:48:15.887
<v Speaker 1>I will take our caravan and that, and then my

0:48:16.007 --> 0:48:18.407
<v Speaker 1>dad and his family that he will take you know,

0:48:18.567 --> 0:48:21.007
<v Speaker 1>his camper and blah blah. We travel a lot and

0:48:21.127 --> 0:48:24.247
<v Speaker 1>go out into our back places and often meet up.

0:48:24.287 --> 0:48:26.527
<v Speaker 2>And he can still do all that, like health wise

0:48:26.567 --> 0:48:27.767
<v Speaker 2>and everything. He can still do all that.

0:48:27.927 --> 0:48:28.607
<v Speaker 3>Oh totally.

0:48:28.727 --> 0:48:31.127
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's smashing it. He's like all over the play

0:48:31.247 --> 0:48:33.567
<v Speaker 1>he travels more than me because when we come home

0:48:33.607 --> 0:48:36.087
<v Speaker 1>off the road of him playing in my band, he

0:48:36.127 --> 0:48:38.207
<v Speaker 1>then goes out and does his own gigs because he's

0:48:38.247 --> 0:48:40.487
<v Speaker 1>got his own career as well. So he's smashing it.

0:48:41.487 --> 0:48:43.687
<v Speaker 1>And then sometimes he might fly to a gig with

0:48:43.727 --> 0:48:45.727
<v Speaker 1>the rest of my band or something. But I do

0:48:45.887 --> 0:48:47.807
<v Speaker 1>we do it all in a caravan now and I

0:48:47.847 --> 0:48:50.527
<v Speaker 1>love that. But we also when we're out on the road,

0:48:51.127 --> 0:48:53.447
<v Speaker 1>I think my dad and I have a bit more

0:48:53.447 --> 0:48:58.007
<v Speaker 1>of a bandmates kind of dynamic between us, and it's

0:48:58.047 --> 0:49:01.007
<v Speaker 1>not so much about I've got my dad with me

0:49:01.527 --> 0:49:03.767
<v Speaker 1>on the road and I've got to look after him

0:49:03.927 --> 0:49:05.047
<v Speaker 1>or anything like that.

0:49:05.047 --> 0:49:06.007
<v Speaker 3>That's good. That's good.

0:49:06.087 --> 0:49:08.807
<v Speaker 2>And also if they're still so vivid and healthy, like

0:49:08.847 --> 0:49:10.607
<v Speaker 2>that's it's such a gift.

0:49:10.967 --> 0:49:13.727
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And my mom sells all the merchandise for the

0:49:13.767 --> 0:49:16.447
<v Speaker 1>tours and that that's her business. She does all of that.

0:49:17.127 --> 0:49:20.887
<v Speaker 1>And my mom and dad are like really beautiful friends

0:49:20.927 --> 0:49:23.567
<v Speaker 1>and have been for most of their divorce.

0:49:24.327 --> 0:49:26.927
<v Speaker 2>There was a good model, very good and I yeah,

0:49:26.967 --> 0:49:28.607
<v Speaker 2>they're a very good model of what you were just

0:49:28.647 --> 0:49:29.287
<v Speaker 2>talking about.

0:49:29.367 --> 0:49:31.047
<v Speaker 1>I probably should have said that at the start when

0:49:31.047 --> 0:49:34.247
<v Speaker 1>you first started talking about co parenting. I learned how

0:49:34.287 --> 0:49:38.647
<v Speaker 1>to co parent from my parents, you know, going through

0:49:38.687 --> 0:49:40.247
<v Speaker 1>a divorce, and they were the same. They went through

0:49:40.247 --> 0:49:42.447
<v Speaker 1>their hard times, of course, you know when you first

0:49:42.487 --> 0:49:45.007
<v Speaker 1>get divorced in that, but then you know, it gets

0:49:45.007 --> 0:49:51.087
<v Speaker 1>to a point where my parents showed me that a

0:49:51.167 --> 0:49:54.567
<v Speaker 1>marriage breakdown doesn't have to be a family breakdown, and

0:49:54.607 --> 0:49:59.087
<v Speaker 1>that was really important for me, you know, to see

0:49:59.087 --> 0:50:01.407
<v Speaker 1>that in them and to see it actually work. So

0:50:01.447 --> 0:50:04.567
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't just something people said on paper, like it

0:50:04.607 --> 0:50:07.087
<v Speaker 1>wasn't just something a therapist said to you. I saw

0:50:07.127 --> 0:50:09.487
<v Speaker 1>it and lived it every day and I continue to

0:50:09.527 --> 0:50:13.287
<v Speaker 1>live it with my parents, and so I had no

0:50:13.407 --> 0:50:16.487
<v Speaker 1>reason to think that it wouldn't work with my ex'es,

0:50:16.607 --> 0:50:16.807
<v Speaker 1>you know.

0:50:17.007 --> 0:50:18.487
<v Speaker 2>So I want to go back to the book and

0:50:18.527 --> 0:50:20.527
<v Speaker 2>talk about your definition of being a dickhead.

0:50:20.567 --> 0:50:23.407
<v Speaker 3>List just couldn't I couldn't tell you.

0:50:23.447 --> 0:50:25.167
<v Speaker 2>I could keep going all day, and then I want

0:50:25.207 --> 0:50:27.327
<v Speaker 2>to hear all the songs and then anyway, you've got

0:50:27.327 --> 0:50:28.647
<v Speaker 2>this list. I'm going to show it to you on

0:50:28.687 --> 0:50:31.087
<v Speaker 2>our video here. You've got this list because at the

0:50:31.127 --> 0:50:33.727
<v Speaker 2>top I've written this has inspired me to start my

0:50:33.807 --> 0:50:37.367
<v Speaker 2>own list. But it's my definition of being a dickhead.

0:50:37.407 --> 0:50:39.247
<v Speaker 2>And this very much looks like it was written in

0:50:39.287 --> 0:50:42.407
<v Speaker 2>notes app and I appreciate that. Now we've talked about

0:50:42.407 --> 0:50:44.887
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the things in this already, we've talked

0:50:44.887 --> 0:50:47.327
<v Speaker 2>about the idea what you feel like you're being a

0:50:47.327 --> 0:50:50.047
<v Speaker 2>dickhead when you and then these are all the different things.

0:50:50.367 --> 0:50:53.567
<v Speaker 2>Think that being strong means being an asshole? Lose sight

0:50:53.647 --> 0:50:55.807
<v Speaker 2>of my own boundaries. I actually wanted to ask you.

0:50:55.847 --> 0:50:58.167
<v Speaker 2>Boundaries as a word that gets thrown around a lot,

0:50:58.527 --> 0:51:01.007
<v Speaker 2>and I do think it's something that women and maybe

0:51:01.007 --> 0:51:03.967
<v Speaker 2>midwomen really struggle with. Have you is that something that

0:51:04.007 --> 0:51:06.407
<v Speaker 2>you've had to learn and get better at or is

0:51:06.487 --> 0:51:08.527
<v Speaker 2>that something that you think was in you from your

0:51:08.567 --> 0:51:10.487
<v Speaker 2>free spirited you?

0:51:10.527 --> 0:51:13.847
<v Speaker 1>No, well, a bit of both. I think I had

0:51:14.007 --> 0:51:19.087
<v Speaker 1>natural boundaries musically, so going into the music industry and

0:51:19.167 --> 0:51:22.967
<v Speaker 1>not giving up my musical like what I felt like

0:51:23.367 --> 0:51:26.967
<v Speaker 1>was me musically. I didn't really get talked into much

0:51:27.087 --> 0:51:30.647
<v Speaker 1>early on, like when they would say somebody might say, oh, well,

0:51:30.727 --> 0:51:33.447
<v Speaker 1>we want to remix this or re record this and

0:51:33.487 --> 0:51:36.727
<v Speaker 1>make it sound all, you know, commercial and blah blah blah.

0:51:36.927 --> 0:51:40.167
<v Speaker 1>I had boundaries. I didn't really buy into that at all,

0:51:40.207 --> 0:51:43.047
<v Speaker 1>and I was quite happy to go, Nah, sorry, that

0:51:43.087 --> 0:51:44.167
<v Speaker 1>doesn't really you know.

0:51:44.327 --> 0:51:46.847
<v Speaker 2>Because you also have on this list that you're being

0:51:46.847 --> 0:51:49.607
<v Speaker 2>a dickhead when you don't admit that you're wrong, which

0:51:49.607 --> 0:51:51.927
<v Speaker 2>I also really like, and don't ask questions. I think

0:51:51.927 --> 0:51:57.167
<v Speaker 2>that's so true, like because you know, there's you maintaining

0:51:57.247 --> 0:52:00.847
<v Speaker 2>your like your value system of I'm not being a dickhead.

0:52:00.887 --> 0:52:03.207
<v Speaker 2>But I'm sure you've had to spot a few dickheads

0:52:03.207 --> 0:52:04.887
<v Speaker 2>in the music industry over the years.

0:52:05.167 --> 0:52:06.767
<v Speaker 3>And that's always a sign.

0:52:06.527 --> 0:52:08.807
<v Speaker 2>For me that someone's a dickhead is when they cannot

0:52:08.807 --> 0:52:09.807
<v Speaker 2>admit that that wrong.

0:52:10.247 --> 0:52:13.527
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah, and I get it. No one wants

0:52:13.567 --> 0:52:16.887
<v Speaker 1>to it's a bit uncomfortable or whatever, but I actually reckon.

0:52:16.967 --> 0:52:21.127
<v Speaker 1>One of the best lessons I've learned is to be

0:52:21.207 --> 0:52:25.767
<v Speaker 1>able to tell my children that I messed up and

0:52:25.807 --> 0:52:30.207
<v Speaker 1>I was wrong about that, because I just like it's

0:52:30.247 --> 0:52:33.167
<v Speaker 1>almost like I used to say, oh, well, I can't

0:52:33.207 --> 0:52:36.607
<v Speaker 1>admit to them that I'm wrong because that will make

0:52:36.727 --> 0:52:41.367
<v Speaker 1>them lose faith in me. And it's kind of the opposite.

0:52:41.407 --> 0:52:44.207
<v Speaker 1>You're teaching them that you can't admit that you're wrong

0:52:44.247 --> 0:52:47.007
<v Speaker 1>when you are and if you know that you're wrong,

0:52:47.047 --> 0:52:49.487
<v Speaker 1>then just say you're wrong, you know. And now I

0:52:49.607 --> 0:52:51.647
<v Speaker 1>do it all the time. I'll just take the kids

0:52:51.687 --> 0:52:54.367
<v Speaker 1>aside or something. I'll say, hey, I was wrong about

0:52:54.407 --> 0:52:57.087
<v Speaker 1>that this morning. I shouldn't have reacted like that. I

0:52:57.087 --> 0:52:58.927
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't have told you guys to do that. That was

0:52:58.967 --> 0:53:01.247
<v Speaker 1>my own shit going on, and I'm sorry about that,

0:53:01.967 --> 0:53:04.527
<v Speaker 1>and that it's okay to do that. And I do

0:53:04.647 --> 0:53:07.887
<v Speaker 1>that heaps actually now. But I used to struggle with

0:53:07.887 --> 0:53:10.127
<v Speaker 1>that because I kind of thought that that look like

0:53:10.167 --> 0:53:13.367
<v Speaker 1>a weakness then to my children. But I really think

0:53:13.407 --> 0:53:17.207
<v Speaker 1>it's the opposite that like teaching them to be able

0:53:17.247 --> 0:53:19.927
<v Speaker 1>to just admit when you do shit wrong. That's a

0:53:20.007 --> 0:53:21.967
<v Speaker 1>great thing, you know, because we're all going to get

0:53:21.967 --> 0:53:25.007
<v Speaker 1>it wrong at times, and I think just owning that

0:53:25.207 --> 0:53:26.287
<v Speaker 1>is really important.

0:53:26.607 --> 0:53:28.487
<v Speaker 2>I think that's great parenting advice. You also have some

0:53:28.487 --> 0:53:30.447
<v Speaker 2>things on here that are quite specific to you, Like

0:53:30.847 --> 0:53:32.767
<v Speaker 2>you're a dickhead when you don't listen to Paul Kelly,

0:53:34.607 --> 0:53:36.527
<v Speaker 2>although maybe we all are when we're not listening to

0:53:36.527 --> 0:53:39.087
<v Speaker 2>Paul Kelly. And you're a dickhead when you cook with

0:53:39.127 --> 0:53:41.287
<v Speaker 2>gluten free flower and expect it to turn out like

0:53:41.367 --> 0:53:42.087
<v Speaker 2>normal flowers.

0:53:42.127 --> 0:53:46.127
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god. But to close up, God, I put

0:53:46.167 --> 0:53:49.527
<v Speaker 1>that one in there that is so true, and I

0:53:49.767 --> 0:53:52.447
<v Speaker 1>still do it like I still I'll buy like a

0:53:52.487 --> 0:53:55.127
<v Speaker 1>different brand and then I'll just go, no, this one's

0:53:55.167 --> 0:53:57.367
<v Speaker 1>going to be different, and then everything will crumble apart.

0:53:57.487 --> 0:53:59.207
<v Speaker 1>I'm not even gluten free. I don't even know what

0:53:59.207 --> 0:53:59.807
<v Speaker 1>I'm bothering.

0:54:00.327 --> 0:54:02.487
<v Speaker 2>The last thing I wanted to just ask you, because

0:54:02.487 --> 0:54:04.807
<v Speaker 2>you've got, as I say, little lessons through the book

0:54:05.247 --> 0:54:08.087
<v Speaker 2>live your own dreams, not someone else's. I think is

0:54:08.127 --> 0:54:12.007
<v Speaker 2>a very powerful thing all the way through our lives.

0:54:12.047 --> 0:54:14.167
<v Speaker 2>Because even now, as we talked about at the beginning,

0:54:14.407 --> 0:54:16.447
<v Speaker 2>we've got a lot of shoulds. I should be like this,

0:54:16.607 --> 0:54:19.487
<v Speaker 2>why and I like that? Do you feel like at

0:54:19.487 --> 0:54:22.327
<v Speaker 2>this phase in your life, as you're releasing this new

0:54:22.367 --> 0:54:25.967
<v Speaker 2>work and you're releasing this book, are you living your dream.

0:54:26.367 --> 0:54:29.607
<v Speaker 1>One hundred percent, like daily, and not even just to

0:54:29.647 --> 0:54:32.847
<v Speaker 1>do with my album and book coming out, even just

0:54:32.927 --> 0:54:35.847
<v Speaker 1>the way that I'm living my life, the way that

0:54:35.887 --> 0:54:40.047
<v Speaker 1>I'm touring, the way that I'm showing up to my

0:54:40.247 --> 0:54:43.847
<v Speaker 1>children each day, like on little things. Because so, I

0:54:43.887 --> 0:54:49.127
<v Speaker 1>mean in the book, that chapter is very much about living,

0:54:49.447 --> 0:54:51.687
<v Speaker 1>you know, because I was I was flying all around

0:54:51.767 --> 0:54:54.327
<v Speaker 1>the world and doing all these amazing big tours and

0:54:54.367 --> 0:54:56.887
<v Speaker 1>big festivals and blah blah blah blah. I was flying everywhere,

0:54:57.327 --> 0:55:00.847
<v Speaker 1>going into these beautiful airport lounges and living the most convenient,

0:55:00.927 --> 0:55:04.207
<v Speaker 1>luxurious lifestyle that you could possibly ask for. And I

0:55:04.287 --> 0:55:07.527
<v Speaker 1>know that a lot of musicians absolutely that would be

0:55:07.767 --> 0:55:11.447
<v Speaker 1>their dream life. But then I just sat there there

0:55:11.487 --> 0:55:13.487
<v Speaker 1>in that airport lounge one day and I went, hang

0:55:13.527 --> 0:55:16.527
<v Speaker 1>on a minute, is this my dream life? I don't

0:55:16.607 --> 0:55:18.927
<v Speaker 1>think this is setting my soul on fire. I feel

0:55:18.927 --> 0:55:24.287
<v Speaker 1>like I'm missing out on calling into roadhouses and chatting

0:55:24.327 --> 0:55:26.647
<v Speaker 1>to the locals on the way to my gig. I

0:55:26.687 --> 0:55:28.887
<v Speaker 1>think I want to be able to take my kids

0:55:28.967 --> 0:55:32.567
<v Speaker 1>to the swimming hole down the road, even if it

0:55:32.607 --> 0:55:35.367
<v Speaker 1>goes against the flight schedule that we have made. You know,

0:55:35.967 --> 0:55:39.047
<v Speaker 1>and I want to be able to go and play

0:55:39.207 --> 0:55:42.807
<v Speaker 1>at the school out at an Aboriginal community and go

0:55:42.847 --> 0:55:45.727
<v Speaker 1>and do that in between that gig and that gig

0:55:45.767 --> 0:55:48.487
<v Speaker 1>instead of flying somewhere else or what. And I want

0:55:48.527 --> 0:55:50.847
<v Speaker 1>to be able to do that. So I changed my

0:55:50.927 --> 0:55:54.127
<v Speaker 1>whole lifestyle because I was like, what are the things

0:55:54.127 --> 0:55:57.287
<v Speaker 1>that fill me up? And to be honest, it's not

0:55:57.407 --> 0:56:00.727
<v Speaker 1>sitting in an airport lounge and I'm grateful. I'm not saying.

0:56:00.607 --> 0:56:02.487
<v Speaker 3>It's okay, It's okay.

0:56:02.287 --> 0:56:06.607
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know what I mean. I love not being ungrateful.

0:56:06.727 --> 0:56:10.487
<v Speaker 1>I'm just going this is not my dream. It doesn't

0:56:10.527 --> 0:56:14.767
<v Speaker 1>set my soul on fire. Sitting around a campfire playing

0:56:14.887 --> 0:56:18.287
<v Speaker 1>music with my kids while they're playing guitar and I'm

0:56:18.367 --> 0:56:22.047
<v Speaker 1>cooking in the camp oven. That sets my soul on fire.

0:56:22.407 --> 0:56:24.647
<v Speaker 1>And so that's what my life is now. So I'm

0:56:24.687 --> 0:56:28.327
<v Speaker 1>literally living my dream. But just on the other side

0:56:28.367 --> 0:56:35.087
<v Speaker 1>of that, I think sometimes where we have this like

0:56:35.447 --> 0:56:38.487
<v Speaker 1>we have a really clear view of our big dreams,

0:56:39.567 --> 0:56:43.287
<v Speaker 1>but I also want to fulfill my little dreams throughout

0:56:43.367 --> 0:56:46.847
<v Speaker 1>a day. And that is mainly of who I show

0:56:46.927 --> 0:56:49.927
<v Speaker 1>up as every day. So who I show up as

0:56:50.247 --> 0:56:54.447
<v Speaker 1>when I'm talking to my daughter, and no one is watching,

0:56:54.607 --> 0:56:58.327
<v Speaker 1>and it's not on Instagram, My friends aren't around. And

0:56:58.607 --> 0:57:01.047
<v Speaker 1>you know, this happened to me just the other day.

0:57:01.287 --> 0:57:06.967
<v Speaker 1>I spoke to my daughter in a way where I

0:57:07.047 --> 0:57:09.087
<v Speaker 1>was like, I was really cranky at her, and I

0:57:09.847 --> 0:57:11.447
<v Speaker 1>can't remember what it was, but it was something she

0:57:11.487 --> 0:57:14.927
<v Speaker 1>hadn't done. I was like, ah, I lost my shit.

0:57:16.447 --> 0:57:20.447
<v Speaker 1>And then I remembered that she had a friend over

0:57:20.927 --> 0:57:24.327
<v Speaker 1>right and her friend was there, and her friend would

0:57:24.407 --> 0:57:28.047
<v Speaker 1>have heard me lose my shit, and I felt really bad.

0:57:28.407 --> 0:57:30.767
<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh my god, I can't talk to

0:57:30.807 --> 0:57:33.047
<v Speaker 1>my daughter like that while her friend's over. And then

0:57:33.087 --> 0:57:35.967
<v Speaker 1>I went, hang on a minute, why the fuck does

0:57:36.007 --> 0:57:38.847
<v Speaker 1>that matter? You shouldn't talk to your daughter like that anyway.

0:57:39.007 --> 0:57:40.447
<v Speaker 1>You know, if you can't do it in front of

0:57:40.487 --> 0:57:42.527
<v Speaker 1>another person, then you shouldn't be doing it, you know.

0:57:43.367 --> 0:57:45.047
<v Speaker 1>And look, it was no big deal. I'm sure I

0:57:45.047 --> 0:57:48.087
<v Speaker 1>didn't scar her for life. Yeah, but talk about it

0:57:48.127 --> 0:57:50.327
<v Speaker 1>in therapy one day. Fine, Fine, that's gotta.

0:57:50.087 --> 0:57:51.087
<v Speaker 3>Give them something to talk about.

0:57:51.367 --> 0:57:53.447
<v Speaker 2>But I think that's brilliant. And what you just said

0:57:53.447 --> 0:57:56.327
<v Speaker 2>about your dream and the other people's dream, like, I've

0:57:56.367 --> 0:57:58.527
<v Speaker 2>got goosebumps up and down my arm. I just it

0:57:58.687 --> 0:58:01.847
<v Speaker 2>just resonates so much, and I can't thank you enough

0:58:01.887 --> 0:58:03.967
<v Speaker 2>for your generosity. I can't thank you enough for writing

0:58:03.967 --> 0:58:06.567
<v Speaker 2>this book and far out. I can't wait to hear

0:58:06.567 --> 0:58:07.967
<v Speaker 2>the whole album like I can't.

0:58:08.327 --> 0:58:11.887
<v Speaker 1>Oh, thank you so much. This has been just the

0:58:11.927 --> 0:58:22.087
<v Speaker 1>most soul feeling interview to sit here and talk to you. Well.

0:58:22.287 --> 0:58:24.887
<v Speaker 2>When I finished that interview, I was driving straight back

0:58:24.927 --> 0:58:26.327
<v Speaker 2>down the coast to where I lived, and I put

0:58:26.367 --> 0:58:31.007
<v Speaker 2>on a Casey Chambers playlist and I leant into her unmistakable, unique,

0:58:31.047 --> 0:58:33.967
<v Speaker 2>heartfelt songs all the way home, and I was busy

0:58:34.127 --> 0:58:36.007
<v Speaker 2>with one of the pieces that I wrote down, thinking

0:58:36.087 --> 0:58:38.967
<v Speaker 2>about that all the way home on the drive, reminding

0:58:39.007 --> 0:58:42.167
<v Speaker 2>myself that this was my dream, my weird little yellow

0:58:42.247 --> 0:58:44.367
<v Speaker 2>house by the river, and the veggie garden and the

0:58:44.447 --> 0:58:46.287
<v Speaker 2>rider's shed and my dog and my kids and my

0:58:46.367 --> 0:58:47.247
<v Speaker 2>elderly boyfriend.

0:58:47.487 --> 0:58:48.087
<v Speaker 3>And it's not.

0:58:48.007 --> 0:58:52.087
<v Speaker 2>Necessarily as sparkly a dream, a shiny and fancy dream,

0:58:52.127 --> 0:58:54.647
<v Speaker 2>as many others, but it was mine and those dreams

0:58:54.647 --> 0:58:56.287
<v Speaker 2>are none of my business. So that was the first

0:58:56.287 --> 0:58:59.167
<v Speaker 2>piece of wisdom I wrote down. And if you've let

0:58:59.247 --> 0:59:01.527
<v Speaker 2>go of all the stuff everyone told you should want,

0:59:01.647 --> 0:59:04.207
<v Speaker 2>or you're in the process of doing that, you'll know

0:59:04.247 --> 0:59:05.847
<v Speaker 2>why that bit of the conversation was so.

0:59:05.887 --> 0:59:06.567
<v Speaker 3>Powerful for me.

0:59:07.127 --> 0:59:11.007
<v Speaker 2>The other bit that I loved Casey's words about aging

0:59:11.087 --> 0:59:13.607
<v Speaker 2>and how we see our faces and that question what

0:59:13.767 --> 0:59:16.207
<v Speaker 2>if we're wrong? What if the smooth face of youth

0:59:16.287 --> 0:59:19.527
<v Speaker 2>isn't beauty? Anyway, I'm not going to prosecute Casey's amazing

0:59:19.527 --> 0:59:22.127
<v Speaker 2>words anymore, but I bloody love playing with that rebellious

0:59:22.167 --> 0:59:24.927
<v Speaker 2>idea when I'm staring in the mirror blaming my gels.

0:59:25.687 --> 0:59:28.687
<v Speaker 2>Casey's book and album, the album that goes with it,

0:59:28.687 --> 0:59:32.127
<v Speaker 2>it's appropriately called Backbone, are available now and we're putting

0:59:32.167 --> 0:59:33.767
<v Speaker 2>links in our show notes away you can get them

0:59:33.807 --> 0:59:37.247
<v Speaker 2>to support this incredible Australian artist. And if you loved

0:59:37.247 --> 0:59:39.607
<v Speaker 2>that chat, please scroll back and listen to my conversation

0:59:39.647 --> 0:59:42.327
<v Speaker 2>with Gina Chick from a few weeks ago. These two women,

0:59:42.367 --> 0:59:44.847
<v Speaker 2>I think, share a sort of particular spirit that makes

0:59:44.887 --> 0:59:47.487
<v Speaker 2>me want to be braver and that makes me bounce

0:59:47.527 --> 0:59:50.367
<v Speaker 2>out of those studios full of energy. And if you

0:59:50.447 --> 0:59:52.527
<v Speaker 2>love the bit about beauty standards, maybe go and listen

0:59:52.567 --> 0:59:54.727
<v Speaker 2>to my conversation with Ali Daddo called but what have

0:59:54.767 --> 0:59:56.527
<v Speaker 2>you done to your face? It's the last episode of

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<v Speaker 2>season two and we talk about all that stuff and

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<v Speaker 2>if you love mid like, follow share, like all the

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<v Speaker 2>young YouTubers say, it really does make a difference. Enormous

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<v Speaker 2>thank you to my undickheaded team, my amazing epim A Brown,

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<v Speaker 2>who had ms that sometimes she doesn't put the shopping

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<v Speaker 2>trolley back. Ni, that is a dickhead move, but that's okay.

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<v Speaker 2>We forgive you. Also our other producer, Charlie Blackman, who

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<v Speaker 2>says that when she's being a dickhead, she starts talking

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<v Speaker 2>in a British accent. Well that's good to know, Tarlie.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll be looking up for that.

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<v Speaker 1>Anna.

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<v Speaker 2>Amazing audio production is by Tom Lyon, who says that

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes his short attention span needs that he tunes out

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<v Speaker 2>and someone will tell him something really profound and he'll

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<v Speaker 2>just be like, oh yeah, cool, yeah, and that's his dickhead.

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<v Speaker 2>Tell I promise you none of these people are dickheads.

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<v Speaker 2>They work so hard on this wonderful show of ours,

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<v Speaker 2>and we'll be back in your ears next week.