WEBVTT - Seize the Bébé // The Juggle with Genevieve Day 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.320 That's something I definitely explore in the book is that 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:06.040 like scarcity mindset as women, that we're not going to 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:08.959 get these opportunities again, that we've fought tooth and nail 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:10.680 to have a seat at the table and if we 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:14.000 step away for any reason, but especially to have children, 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:15.960 but those opportunities will dry up. 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:18.200 Welcome to the Seize the Yay Podcast. 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.800 Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:24.960 rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.360 we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.400 there's more than one way. So this is a platform to. 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.640 Hear and explore the stories of those who found lives 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:36.199 they adore, the good. 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:36.800 Bad and ugly. 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.760 The best and worst day will bear all the facets 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:44.559 of Seizing your Yeay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.880 of Sarah, a lawyer turned funentrepreneur who swapped the suits 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.520 and heels to co found matcha Maiden and matcha Milk. 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:54.320 Bark Czya is a series of conversations on finding a 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:58.000 life you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:05.160 and fulfillment along the way. Hallo, Beautiful neighborhood and Welcome 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.920 to the first episode of our new parenthood segment, Seize 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.640 the Baby. I know I can't help myself if you 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:14.520 guys all know me by now, but it just makes 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:16.560 me smile every time I say it or read it, 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:18.440 which is very on brands. I'm going to stick with it. 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.440 I just felt I'd been copying and pasting some ted 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:25.479 talk length answers on socials about various aspects of adjusting 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.640 to mum life, and I felt that the fuller answers 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:30.479 that I've been giving people needed somewhere to. 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:32.080 Live, so it was easy to refer to. 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.839 But I also wanted to signal more clearly to those 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.720 of you who aren't just interested in this parenthood content, 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.080 to show you what's heavily parent related and then what isn't. 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:46.360 The most hotly asked questions so far have been around sleep, breastfeeding, 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.560 and the juggle as a working mum, but I'm going 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.360 to start with the latter because it's particularly timely for 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:56.160 two reasons. Firstly, I personally felt my management of the 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.560 juggle has taken a very steep dive over the past 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:01.440 couple of weeks. You might have been able to tell 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:04.600 from my socials, so it's very close to home right now, 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:06.400 and you know, I love to get a bit vulnerable 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:09.079 on here, particularly in real time when it's still happening, 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.040 and you're getting kind of how I really feel, rather 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.480 than hearing about it when it's all resolved. Secondly, one 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:17.880 of the mum role models that I turned to often, 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:22.080 and incidentally also my manager, Genevieve Day, who is in 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.799 herself a huge part of how I maintain any kind 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:29.440 of juggle, just released her brand new book called The Juggle, 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:33.040 featuring interviews with some of our very own incredible past 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.840 guests on the topic. So a conversation on the Juggle 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.560 just seemed meant to be. I've covered parts of how 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.520 I've been balancing work and mum life in various episodes 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.040 so far, and I actually recall my answer in an 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.880 earlier episode being that I haven't really felt an identity 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.680 split or pull between my mum or work identity yet 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.400 jokes on me how quickly our babies grow, but also 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:59.400 how quickly you can go from relatively copy and high 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.239 on indoor for and hormones too suddenly not so much. 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:05.600 And I've recently felt much more of a split between 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.760 wanting more time for my career but also wanting to 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:10.760 be with Teddy twenty four seven at the same time. 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:12.480 It's like that meme where you kind of want to 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.440 be a city goal but living in the country but 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.680 working full time, but also meditating all day and doing nothing, 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.000 and like, that's me. I'm so confused, and that's the 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.240 juggle that's feeling that split. It definitely is happening, and 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.000 the way I resolve that tension changes every day. And 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.560 I'm so sorry to those who only listened to the 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:30.880 earlier episode what I said that I didn't have that struggle, 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.720 because I absolutely do. One thing I've really had to 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:36.680 grapple with is letting go of perfectionism at work now 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.600 that there's much less time to play with. So sadly 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:41.600 you don't get the nice new intro that I was 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:43.960 hoping to organize to accompany the new segment. I was 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:45.960 going to do our CZ eight. People call it the 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.000 CZA rap, which is so funny to me. It's not 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:49.680 a rap, but I was going to do a new 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.200 one for this new segment. But you'd be waiting all 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:54.440 year for the segment otherwise, so you're just going to 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.480 have to stick with the original. I also feel like 0:03:57.480 --> 0:03:59.760 I got so distracted by Jen's wisdom. In this one, 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:02.840 we kind of venture into sleep and feeding anyway, and 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.440 then I'm not sure that I clearly laid out my 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.800 specific version of the juggle to answer your questions about 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:11.520 like the structure of the day and Nanny's and all that. 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:14.160 It literally makes me want to come out in hives 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:16.680 not answering questions because I hate not doing things properly. 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.880 But again, that's the juggle of just doing my best 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:22.440 and hoping that that represents in itself exactly what this 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:24.120 episode is all about. I'm just going to put it 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.080 out anyway. I hope you enjoy it, and please let 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.880 me know your thoughts on sees, the baby and what 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.400 you want next. I'm pretty sure the next episode will 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:35.280 be on sleep, because there have just been so many 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:37.480 questions about that and it's very current for us. But 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.480 of course I will also include links to Gen's amazing 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:42.960 book in the show notes. If you don't already know 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:44.719 by the end of this episode, you'll well and truly 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:46.920 know why you need a copy. And it's such an 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:51.240 incredible guide on everything related to the Juggle. Jen my love, 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:52.400 welcome back to the show. 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:54.960 Thank you so much for having me back on what 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:55.440 an honor. 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.400 It's an honor for me. We've been through so many 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.320 chapters of our life together. But I mean, for the 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:03.760 show's purposes, it's been four years. 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:04.400 So if you. 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.880 Guys haven't listened to that episode, I will include the 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:09.279 link in the show notes so you can get the 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:12.919 background of how Jen started the Incredible day management and 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:16.600 next of kin management, how we became friends. I think 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.880 you've managed me for like ten years now or something. 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.640 Yeah, we're going up to a decade, which is insane, 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:23.760 and I love it because you're like a bit of 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:25.560 a post a child. I'm like, this is what we do. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:26.560 Look at Sarah Avidson. 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.000 Well, I'm also like the irony of the fact that 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.440 we're talking about the juggle. Whenever anyone asks me how 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:36.239 I juggle everything, I'm always like, Genevieve Day, incredible manager, 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:40.240 my dear friend and now mum role model. And I 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:42.479 think that's the beautiful thing about having a podcast. It's 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.719 been like, oh my gosh, nearly six years and you 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.360 get to trace through people's different chapters, but also your 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.080 relationship with those people and how it kind of evolves 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:51.560 over time. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.120 It's so true because you're right. It's almost like as 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.080 a founder and a business owner, you have the one 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.520 business story that you tell a lot, right, and often 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.120 like how did you get started? And for me personally, 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:04.359 I have the same feel that I give, but I'm like, 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:06.320 so nine years ago there was a change in the 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:07.880 media landscape and I was one of the first in 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:11.279 Australia started a talent management agency Digital First Talent And 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:13.440 then I'm kind of like, what about that evolution? And 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.359 so often those stories don't get told of like what 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:17.240 happens next? 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:19.640 Well, that's exactly what we're here to do today, to 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.799 catch everyone up on everything we've done since the last episode, 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:27.200 but particularly becoming mothers together and bonding over that elusive 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.359 search for balance and that ongoing juggle. And for so 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.600 many reasons, you are the perfect guest for this particular 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.760 topic in this new segment because since we last caught 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.239 up September twenty twenty two, you got married September twenty 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:42.719 twenty three, you had your beautiful boy, Henry, and I'll 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:46.000 folog you six months later. September twenty twenty four has 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.440 just passed, marking one year of you navigating the juggle, 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.839 and you celebrated by birthing your third baby, your incredible 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:57.200 new book that just launches this week now actually named 0:06:57.440 --> 0:06:58.080 The Juggle. 0:06:58.240 --> 0:06:59.120 How are you feeling? 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.159 Oh my gosh, I love things happening in September. It 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:04.520 seems to be my month. It's been amazing, And it's 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:07.960 so funny because everyone spoke about like that one year 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.320 milestone with Henry of like things will calm down then, 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.000 or you know, you'll reflect back and you'll miss those moments. 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.600 And for me, I'm like, I'm enjoying it the most 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.800 right now with that one year mark, and then with 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:22.240 the book. It was so special to kind of launch 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.600 that in that same stage of life of being like, 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.160 I mean, my rhythm now with parenting and motherhood and work, 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.080 and then I'm launching this book talking about all those things, 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.800 and so kind of a poetic timing ought to happen 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:35.400 in that September chunk. 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:38.480 Sel efficient and neat as you always are, and I've 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.880 just loved it. We're, you know, six months behind you 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.520 in motherhood. You've always been such a big career role 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.400 model for me in building business and being such an 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.360 a type personality. But this next evolution of us has 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:52.240 been me copying and pasting everything you do as a 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.400 mother and watching you juggle motherhood with business. I can't 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:57.360 say how many times I've called you a voice noted, 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:00.920 asking questions about Nanni's and burnout and working in the 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:02.920 same business as your husband and all of those. 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:03.400 Kinds of things. 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.800 But now it's not just me who could access all 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.280 your fells of wisdom, it's everyone because you've collated it 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.840 all into this brilliant book, which is just so exciting 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.560 because I think the biggest thing in all of this, 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:16.880 the biggest thing I've learned so far in motherhood, is 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.240 just how important it is not to feel alone and 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:20.559 realize that you aren't alone. 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:21.560 We're all going. 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:23.320 Through it one hundred percent. And you're very sweet to 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.560 say that. I think I realized during this whole motherhood 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:28.640 journey that I'm someone that always wears a heart on 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.360 my sleeve. I have no qualm saying I'm fucking this up, 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:34.800 or like I'm finding this really hard, and I realized 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:36.680 it in motherhood. A lot of people don't feel comfortable 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:38.880 sharing that or saying that I was so happy to 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.920 be open at the time and say his sleep is terrible, 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:45.320 or like I'm finding it really challenging. To relate to 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.320 this beautiful blog that can't do anything yet. And you know, 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:49.880 I think that was really great for them for my 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:51.800 friends going through it or about to go through it, 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.600 like Okay, cool, you're finding this hard to thank goodness 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:55.280 you're saying that. 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:55.920 Yeah. 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.960 And I really felt confident to be open about it 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.440 through the journey of the book itself because I had 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.679 a lot of these conversations with these incredible women featured, 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.199 who are the likes of Steph clais Smith and Frank 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:11.040 Body's Jess Hatsis and the memos, Pomie Sibbons and Rachel 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.760 Corbett from the Project and these incredible women that I 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.760 know professionally and work with them and love them. They 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.760 were all so candid with me about their own struggles 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.160 and their own journey too. And that's kind of really 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:23.880 where the book came from, is I was having these 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:25.960 copies with them being like, how the hell are you 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.800 doing it? I'm pregnant, I'm terrified of having issues between 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.600 Korea and motherhood, and am I going to give up 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.160 everything I've worked so hard to build? And they were 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.000 so wonderful and sharing their story with me that I'm like, 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.199 this has to live somewhere for other women to be 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.560 exactly like you say, not feel so alone themselves. 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.160 And it's funny that you mentioned poetic timing because we're 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:47.920 sitting down to record this at a very different chapter 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:51.120 for the podcast where I am only recording fortnightly because 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:54.120 that's all the juggle allows. And the new segment is 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:56.680 partly to answer the fact that I've had more dms 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.760 than ever about juggling and work and leaving Teddy and pumping. 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:02.760 I actually feel less equipped than I ever have to 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.000 answer them because the last couple of months have probably 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:06.960 been the hardest I've had since he's been born. In 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:09.600 terms of the juggle. You and I have both found 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.680 different parts of our journey quite difficult, and you know, 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:15.200 we'll go into a little bit more about my juggle later, 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.280 but for you, I know you found that early newborn 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.920 phase extremely challenging and difficult to sort of say that, 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.160 whereas I was one of those people who probably made 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.440 you feel bad when you were in that phase because 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:28.559 I was sort of like, oh, it's so much easier 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:31.360 that I thought, Oh, it's just so magical, which is 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.079 genuinely how I felt. It was really magical. I think 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.920 I just had really sort of realistic expectations being one 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.240 of the last of my friendship group to have a baby, 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:42.640 So I sort of found the juggle a lot easier 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:45.800 at the beginning because the people in my workplace were you. 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:47.800 You were so good at navigating it all. I had 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.240 so much advice and support. But it's, you know, the 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:52.360 past couple of weeks that I've had a massive breakdown. 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:56.280 So it's just so funny that this is when this 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.360 particular episode is all coming together. And I'm so excited 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:01.240 to share your book because I read the early manuscript 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:03.520 when I was going through all this Oh my god, 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:05.800 what have I done? All that fear that we're used 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.960 to dealing with in our careers but not in motherhood before. 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:13.160 And it feels so personal. When someone else is saying like, oh, 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.600 I'm choosing to do this with my baby, or I 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:19.240 found this really easy, it feels like they're saying personally, well, 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.400 you're a bad mum, or that you're a terrible person, 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:23.800 and it doesn't mean that at all. And I think 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:25.920 a large part of it for me too, using the 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.120 book as a resource, Like I went to my mother's 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:31.480 group and the women there were so gorgeous and so 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:33.920 friendly and warm, but they were all in their own 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:36.240 journeys and they most of them had like twelve months 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.280 off work, which wasn't my narrative, Like I had to 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.240 go back super early, and I didn't really feel seen 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.000 in those circles, and so I felt alone, like am 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:47.040 I doing the right thing? But then I go back 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:49.360 to the book and the conversations people are saying, yeah, 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:51.240 I went back at three months, or I went back earlier, 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:54.920 or I was emailing from the delivery room, and you're like, okay, cool, 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.160 they're eating steptrum there, like it's okay to fall somewhere 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.599 in that spectrum and we're all worried about doing the 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.439 wrong thing right. But then everyone has different like ebbs 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.079 and flows of their rhythm with it, of what they're 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.320 going to thrive out, what they're going to challenge, and yeah, 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.880 it's crazy, and it's so funny that ours definitely fell 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.320 on different sides of that pendulum. 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:17.280 Suite, and I think it is so it's I've mentioned 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:19.600 a couple of times before that I actually was even 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:24.440 hesitant to start a sort of motherhood, maternity, pregnancy, postpartum 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:27.480 segment of the podcast because it is such a sensitive area. 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.839 It's like we're all okay for the most part at letting, 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:32.800 you know, choose your own adventure, choose your own pathway. 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.160 We're not as judgmental about other people's choices in their 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.360 food or their exercise. We're sort of happy to accept, 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:40.679 you know, everyone does their own thing, and what suits 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.000 you won't suit someone else. But for some reason, I 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:46.000 think because parenthood is so personal, it's like the one 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:50.319 area where there's the unsolicited advice, how offended we all get, 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.679 Like we take everything personally even when it's not meant 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.520 that way, but then sometimes it is meant that way, 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:55.040 Like it's. 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:56.040 Just so sensitive. 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.839 So I almost didn't want to do this because I 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:03.200 didn't want to me sharing my anecdotal journey to feel 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:05.360 like judgment towards anyone else. But at the same time, 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.959 I think having the conversations is better than not having them. 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:11.440 So really, I want to talk to you about going 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:15.680 back to that very early decision to write this book. 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.080 This was mid pregnancy for you, and the juggle had 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.240 already started because the last job that we did together 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.640 in your pregnancy was you hosting a TV series at 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.880 thirty nine weeks. Yeah, why did I do so, and 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:34.400 then you continued to write an entire book during your 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:39.560 like early sort of first months of motherhood. So talk 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.760 to us about, yeah, the beginning of I'm going to 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:44.800 write a book in this time. 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.080 Yeah, and look, I'm insane. Let's just put that out better. 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:50.760 Set the tone that clearly I put so much pressure 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:53.199 on myself to do things, and I think a lot 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:56.400 of it was a pressure I felt to prove to 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:58.760 myself and to everyone that like, this isn't going to 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:00.520 stop me, Like I'm not going to be one of 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.160 those women who has a baby, and that's a full identity, 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.680 and that's no shade to women who do have that either, 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:08.920 but it was just I felt that I had to 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:11.480 prove to everyone that I can still do it all, 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:15.040 which is complete bs as well. And I was even 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.080 feeling that way in pregnancy because a lot of part 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.240 of my job is to be front facing and then 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:22.960 also to sign new talent and then go out and 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.120 get new clients for us, and I thought, I have 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.520 to show them that I'm still devoted even though I'm pregnant. 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.040 And it was a bit of a barrier during my 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.000 pregnancy because I was a physical reminder that I was 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.200 about to step away, right. I would rock up to 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.520 these meetings there's coffee catchups with brands, a massive belly, 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.640 and they'd be like why are you here? Literally that's 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.400 what was like vibat and what someone said. They were like, 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:46.880 what are you doing here? And I was like, I'm 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.520 only thirty six weeks. This is fine. With the TV 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:51.480 show as well, like when they asked me to host it, 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.240 I had a genuine fear they would never ask me 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.120 again if I said no. And that's something that I 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.640 definitely explore in the book, is that like scarcity mindset 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.600 as women that we're not going to get these opportunities again, 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:05.920 that we've fought tooth and nail to have a seat 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.680 at the table and if we step away for any reason, 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:12.400 but especially to have children. But those opportunities were dry up, 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:16.080 and so I wasn't willing to say no. I filmed 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:18.760 that and I was literally nine months pregnant, and I 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.240 look ridiculous. Everyone was very kind on the day, but 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.120 like looking back, I'm like, oh, that's that's a very 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:25.520 pregnant person on the camera there. 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:30.840 You looked glorious, but you definitely looked like uncomfortable, like 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:34.960 physically uncomfortable. You were looking sort of like now, Like 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:36.880 at the time, I didn't know what thirty nine weeks 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:38.720 pregnant felt like, and I actually didn't even make it 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:40.880 to thirty nine weeks, which just shows how far along. 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:41.320 You actually were. 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.480 But like I did a similar equivalent in that I 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.000 worked up to thirty seven and a half and then 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.640 gave birth at thirty eight yeah, and had the exact 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:54.280 same sort of feeling of, well, I have to be 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.000 shown that this isn't getting in my way because I 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:59.120 want people to still keep booking me. So from the 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.960 minute I was visible pregnant, I was like, I almost 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:05.400 need to slow down less than when I wasn't visibly pregnant, 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.280 because now I have to be out there. And I 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.200 think one of the common themes that came out through 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.520 all your beautiful guests in the book was that when 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.280 you're a business owner, the one thing that's different from 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:19.240 maternity leave. And I want to talk about like the 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.120 mechanics of the juggle and how people actually structure their 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:23.600 leave and how much they take and when they do 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.360 nannies and stuff, because that's also sort of really important, 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.080 But the common theme is that when you have maternity 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.920 locked in. There's at least an element of security that 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.960 you can face motherhood as motherhood, and then your job 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.280 is kind of there at the end you come back 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.080 to it, and yes there's identity splits and whatever, but 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.760 when you work for yourself, it is such a momentum game. 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:47.840 You sort of think if I get off this like 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.120 roller coaster, then I'm never going to get back on 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:52.400 and everyone's going to hate me, and even now you. 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:56.440 I literally email guys just to be fully transparent. I 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:01.400 email Jen once or twice a week saying I physically 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.359 don't feel well enough to do this job or go 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.760 to this event because you know, Teddy hasn't been sleeping, 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.800 but I think I should because what if everyone thinks 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:12.960 that I can't do this as a mum. So yeah, 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:18.240 I kind of almost delegate to you the like pros 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.480 cons list because I feel like I'm irrational and I'm like, Jed, 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:23.480 do you think I'm going to drop off the face 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:25.080 of the earth if I don't say yes to this thing? 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:27.040 Or is it going to be okay? And I'm still 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:27.720 going through that. 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.080 Yeah, but it's such a valid thought process. And one 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:33.600 thing that came up is that almost every single woman 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.159 I spoke to for the book felt that way of like, 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.440 I've worked my whole life, a whole career to build 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.119 this momentum, and I'm terrifory of stepping away from it. 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:44.560 Then the beautiful thing was on the other side they 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.880 realized that actually that doesn't always happen, and that well, 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.280 you know, you can't do everything the way you used to. 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.480 And for me, it also you know, accumulated in a 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.639 sense that I couldn't work as many hours like I 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.480 used to just look at possibilities as just a little 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:00.159 bit of hard work. So I was like, you know, 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.199 I can do xyz. I'll have takes is ten more 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:05.320 hours of me this week, but I don't have those 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.640 hours anymore. And then I realized that, like, I didn't 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.280 actually miss out on anything by having a baby and 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.359 stepping away, but the pressure is still there and proving 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.120 myself and I almost now have the flip side where 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:21.480 I'm so hesitant to post too much baby content online 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.320 or even on the days that I might finish at 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.480 three pm and pick my sign up from daycare early 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:28.439 and go to the park, I'm like, oh shit, if 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:30.800 I post this online and people thinking I'm not committed 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.159 to my job or my business. So again it's the 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.320 optics almost in the reverse. It's like I don't want 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.280 to seem like I'm not committed to my work enough. 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.880 But then if I'm shown to be out at night 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.200 at work events and going to things and traveling to 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.840 Sydney for jobs I sometimes have to do, then everyone's like, well, 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.040 why don't you with your baby? So I feel like 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.080 that never goes away. But I definitely learned that like 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.440 that pressure and that scarcity mindset does ease up because 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.879 there's those clear examples that like, actually, you're going to 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:00.439 be okay. And I wish I could really time travel 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.080 and tell myself that I know you'd be similar. But 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:05.520 I've done things where, you know, I did a Channel 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:07.960 seven news thing about social media, and I had my 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.360 mum and Henry in the next room, and the journalists 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.080 were so understanding that like if he cried out and 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.200 made noyiage, like it's okay, We'll just recorded again, like 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:17.320 we know you have like a I think he was 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.280 seven weeks old at that stage or something. And we 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.480 actually signed some incredible new talent to the agency who 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:25.560 were mums themselves, and they loved the fact that I 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.880 understood them, and so it almost became like a superpower 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.600 that I could tap into that extra empathy and understanding. 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.320 So while I was so afraid of missing out of things, 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.280 it then actually became so much more gained on the 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.680 other side of that. Plus you get a beautiful baby. 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:44.720 Yeah, but I also love that you word it in 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:47.560 the book, as we focus a lot on losing our 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:51.720 identity and accepting Yes, you definitely lose the person you 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.960 were before, of course you do, but the focus should 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.040 be more so on the fact that you also gain 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:59.960 a new identity, and I think we lament one without 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:01.800 but the flip side of the coin, which is you 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.680 gain this whole other person that's you can't even explain 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:08.000 it to your pre motherhood's self. I kind of describe 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.320 it as such a different identity that it's almost like 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:13.800 a whole different planet. Like everyone who's had kids crosses 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.840 over to planet parent and lives there and understands. They 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:18.760 just get it, what it feels like, what it looks like. 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:20.760 And I actually felt the need to issue a formal 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.520 apology to all of those friends because when I wasn't 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.000 living on that planet, i'd interacted with them just without 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:27.879 having any idea what it took them to leave the 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:31.040 house or how I could be useful or understand their 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:34.639 time constraints, And the word busy means something different, like 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:38.080 I just really felt so bad once I finally crossed over. 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:41.080 And I think of myself as quite an empathetic, intellectual person, 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.520 but even what I imagined it would be like, it's 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:46.520 still nowhere close to it actually feels like. Another thing 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:48.840 that also came out across every no matter what the 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.680 juggle looked like for every single woman, including yourself in 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:55.760 the book, is that no one had traditional maternity leave. 0:20:56.400 --> 0:21:01.960 Everyone went back conventionally extremely early, and almost everyone, particularly 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:04.600 if they've had second children, regret that a little bit 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.280 and have a little bit of guilt. Maybe wouldn't change it, 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:11.240 but just wish that they had not felt so much pressure. 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.200 So I want to talk to you about the fact 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:17.639 that you didn't necessarily love the newborn phase, the guilt 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:20.240 to even say that, the feelings of failure that that 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:23.400 brought up. You write a lot about that in part 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:25.800 two of the book. Yeah, because I think that's a 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.399 really big thing that motherhood mothers in any not just 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:31.879 in business mothers, no matter what their juggle looks like 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.040 they feel this like incredible guilty if their journey doesn't 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:37.040 look how they think it should totally, and. 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:39.560 I think that was a big part of that newborn 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:44.040 stage being quite heavy for me. And I wasn't diagnosed 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.119 with personal depression, but it was definitely like on that 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.160 journey to get there, it was like some quite dark 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.320 times for me personally, and I think a large part 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.240 of that was the fact that I couldn't breastfeed, and 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:58.399 that seems so silly just to think of that like 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:01.359 tiny factor that tipped me over the edge. But I also, 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:04.240 you know, like I'm such a prepared individual. I've gone 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:07.119 out and pre bought all the nursing bras, the breast pump, 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:09.760 the silverrette nipple covers, like I had all the creams. 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:11.560 I was like, oh, my nipples are going to crack, 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:13.720 so I have to buy this amazing ointment and like 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:15.200 I had it all ready to go because I just 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:18.240 thought this will be a given right. And then my 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:20.840 labor was a little bit prickly. I lost over a 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:24.760 leader of blood. I also have PCOS, so my hormones 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:28.320 are already a bit funky and a factor of those 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:30.080 I mean, we'll never know the reason why, but that's 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:32.520 what the doctors say potentially could be part of it. 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:36.440 I just had no supply. He also didn't latch. He 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:38.359 had no interest in me, probably because I had no 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:41.320 milk for him. Yeah, I'm like fair enough, little kid, 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.440 Sorry about that. But I was in the hospital and 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:48.080 the lactation consultants they're just they were awful to me, 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:50.280 if I'm really honest about it, Like they were shocking. 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:52.000 They were like, you want to give your baby the 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:53.800 best start in life, so don't you want to try 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:56.240 as hard as you can. And I'm there, like I've 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:59.399 got strangers milking my breast and I was put on 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:02.000 medication the time I helped my supply and I was 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:05.520 pumping six times a day for like thirty minutes each 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:08.440 and then the luctation consultant told me because I wasn't 0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:09.920 doing it eight times a day, I was trying to 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:13.399 cut corners, I know. And that's the thing. It's like, 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:17.080 there was just so awful, awful advice to just like 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:19.119 push through. And it was literally like trying to get 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:21.480 blood from a stone, and I just would get like 0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:24.920 ten meals each time. And it's so funny because even 0:23:25.000 --> 0:23:27.280 now I see, like, I remember you posted on the 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.479 weekend that you were pumping at the fit Her at 0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:33.080 your like speaking gig, and I saw like the amount 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:36.080 that you had expressed then, and even that still I'm like, 0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:38.680 oh my gosh, I just I've never seen that much 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:41.959 milk in my life. And even though again not personal, 0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:44.080 nothing to do with me, but I still look at 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:46.560 that and I'm like, oh, I just just wasn't my journey. 0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:48.840 So that was really hard in those early weeks. I 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:52.520 tried for six weeks to pump, but I could give 0:23:52.600 --> 0:23:55.360 him like one bottle a day would be my breast milk, 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:59.680 put those tiny ten meals each couple of hours over 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:01.760 like six punths a day and giving one bottles worth 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:04.160 just sixty meals at that time, and then the rest 0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:06.600 was formula. It was so disheartening because again, go to 0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:08.760 mother's group and everyone's feeding their babies and I've got to, like, 0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:11.200 you know, shamefully go to my bag and get my 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:13.280 formula tin out and like I'll just feed my baby. 0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:15.720 Just give me a second, and I'm like mixing it together. 0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:18.159 And so that was really really tough because again the 0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:21.159 expectation of motherhood is like it's a natural thing, and 0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:23.560 I felt like I wasn't good at labor. I felt 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:26.119 like I wasn't good at breastfeeding. It's hard because I 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:28.760 also had these lactation consultants say to me, well, if 0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:30.840 you're going to feed in with a bottle, make sure 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:32.520 that you do all the feed so you still have 0:24:32.600 --> 0:24:35.200 a connection with him because you're not breastfeeding. And so 0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:37.719 I had it in my head that like, Okay, well 0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:39.000 I have to have a connection. I'm not going to 0:24:39.040 --> 0:24:41.840 have a connection because I'm not feeding him naturally in 0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:44.840 inverted commas. So I think that was a really big 0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:48.000 contributing factor of me finding those early weeks really hard. 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:51.840 I also because I lost so much blood. I was 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:54.720 just so drained. It had no energy. I was depleted 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:58.920 straight away. And then because through labor there was a 0:24:58.960 --> 0:25:00.879 lot of pushing and he was stuck, I had a 0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:03.560 lot of pelvic floor pain, and so even like changing 0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:05.879 his nappy, I found it too painful to stand up 0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:08.439 for that period of time. So it was a lot 0:25:08.480 --> 0:25:10.720 of factors. It made that not a like joyous time 0:25:10.800 --> 0:25:13.440 for me. I couldn't really go for a walk that far. 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:16.359 And then he also hated the prem He hated the 0:25:16.400 --> 0:25:18.320 car seat, and so it was just stressful, like I 0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:20.240 was stuck at home with this baby that I didn't 0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:24.320 really understand, and I felt a bit like I couldn't 0:25:24.359 --> 0:25:26.040 be everything this baby wanted me to be, Like I 0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:28.400 didn't feel like a natural mother in that sense. It's 0:25:28.440 --> 0:25:30.400 funny when he hit like I think it was four 0:25:30.520 --> 0:25:33.280 or five months, and they start giving you a lot 0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:36.359 more of facial expressions and reactions. And even when he 0:25:36.359 --> 0:25:38.280 started crawling and he would like crawl up to me, 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:41.160 I felt like, well, for the first time, this baby's 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:44.600 actually choosing me, because in every other point in time, 0:25:45.200 --> 0:25:47.320 I wasn't the one keeping him alive. I wasn't the 0:25:47.400 --> 0:25:50.680 one that he needed. And of course there are many 0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:53.720 benefits and I'm like the queen of pro formula like 0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:56.160 formulas the bloody best. And it meant that my husband 0:25:56.200 --> 0:25:58.080 could feed and my parents would look after him, and 0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:00.600 it meant I could go into the office other people 0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:03.520 could keep him alive. But yeah, those moments where he 0:26:03.600 --> 0:26:05.960 could look at me and smile or crawl up to 0:26:06.080 --> 0:26:08.280 me and choose his mum to be the one that 0:26:08.359 --> 0:26:11.159 gets in those are really the breakthrough moments for me 0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:14.160 of like, okay, yeah, yeah, this is cool. Like I'm 0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:16.520 into this now because I feel like it's a give 0:26:16.600 --> 0:26:20.000 take relationship and not just you know, this little gorgeous 0:26:20.040 --> 0:26:22.720 blog where I couldn't really like crack the code. 0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:24.600 For yeah, oh my gosh. 0:26:24.960 --> 0:26:29.640 And it just like, I don't think anyone's ever felt inadequacy, 0:26:30.240 --> 0:26:32.560 Like we've all had imposter syndrome, we've all had self doubt. 0:26:32.560 --> 0:26:35.159 You've never felt inadequacy until you can't do something for 0:26:35.280 --> 0:26:38.600 your child because there is this expectation that you have 0:26:38.760 --> 0:26:41.399 this innate knowledge, and you know sometimes they're like, but 0:26:41.600 --> 0:26:44.600 you know, above all, it's just mother's instinct, like listen 0:26:44.680 --> 0:26:46.800 to your gut, and I'm like, my gut is telling 0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:49.080 me I just had a bloody sea section. I need 0:26:49.119 --> 0:26:49.440 a shit. 0:26:49.560 --> 0:26:50.000 I can't. 0:26:50.320 --> 0:26:52.639 It's not telling me anything sensible, Like I have no 0:26:52.760 --> 0:26:55.399 mother's instinct right now. It's not always there, and then 0:26:55.440 --> 0:26:59.280 you feel guilty and like I, on the flip side, 0:26:59.440 --> 0:27:03.479 didn't have any problem breastfeeding, which surprised me enormously because 0:27:04.200 --> 0:27:07.359 I don't have boobs. I just I had this expectation 0:27:07.440 --> 0:27:10.560 that it wouldn't happen, and the fact that it did. 0:27:10.680 --> 0:27:14.640 I have become incredibly sensitive to posting the milky pump. 0:27:14.680 --> 0:27:16.320 In fact, as soon as I posted that photo, I 0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:20.119 don't know if you saw, the immediate next slide was guys. 0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:22.840 So many people have messaged me saying about the numbers 0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:25.280 of meals. I usually blur them out because I don't 0:27:25.280 --> 0:27:28.880 want to create any feelings you know, of inadequacy, which 0:27:29.160 --> 0:27:31.480 I don't mean to. I'm just literally post, you know, 0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:35.200 sharing my life. But as an advocate for formula feeding, 0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:38.680 I was adopted, so I was an exclusively formula fed baby. 0:27:38.960 --> 0:27:41.320 I don't even know what quality a formula there was 0:27:41.480 --> 0:27:44.720 in Korea in the eighties, yeah, but probably not amazing. 0:27:44.800 --> 0:27:46.800 And I think I turned out fine. So I was 0:27:46.840 --> 0:27:50.560 always ready to formula feed. And it's interesting that as 0:27:50.640 --> 0:27:54.399 soon as they knew my supply did come in the 0:27:54.560 --> 0:27:57.800 language of oh, well, you know, this is amazing because 0:27:57.800 --> 0:27:59.960 now you won't have to use formula kind of things, 0:28:00.240 --> 0:28:02.800 like we didn't want to mention the F word, but 0:28:03.359 --> 0:28:06.000 I was like, I'm I'm sorry, like I did actually 0:28:06.080 --> 0:28:07.680 because I had a C section. It did take a 0:28:07.760 --> 0:28:10.600 few days and we gave Teddy formula for the first 0:28:10.720 --> 0:28:14.680 three until my milk did come in, and I was 0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:17.480 fine with that, but it was almost like they weren't 0:28:17.480 --> 0:28:19.040 fine with it, Like they were like, don't worry, it 0:28:19.080 --> 0:28:21.440 won't be for long, and I'm like, I actually don't 0:28:21.520 --> 0:28:24.000 care if it's for long. Like my mum was in 0:28:24.080 --> 0:28:27.680 the room and she adopted both children who were also 0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:31.080 in the room, who and Nick's mum was adopted and 0:28:31.160 --> 0:28:32.399 he was in the room, and we were like, well, 0:28:32.440 --> 0:28:34.560 we were all formula fed, So like, yes, this is 0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:36.600 almost offensive the way that you're talking about this. 0:28:37.080 --> 0:28:38.880 And it is offensive because I'm sure you had the 0:28:38.880 --> 0:28:41.040 same thing where they make you sign a form in 0:28:41.120 --> 0:28:44.000 the hospital that's like I consent to giving my baby 0:28:44.120 --> 0:28:46.640 formula and I acknowledge just not as good as breast milk, 0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:49.040 and I'm signing this form and I'm like, guys, is 0:28:49.040 --> 0:28:52.760 actually quite deplorable because the options are he starves. Yeah, 0:28:52.880 --> 0:28:55.960 and even he had to have emergency surgery at six 0:28:56.040 --> 0:28:59.920 weeks old because he had pylorixgnosis. And we were too 0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:02.400 a public hospital because it's where emergency is all connected 0:29:02.480 --> 0:29:05.080 to it, and they were amazing, but they would not 0:29:05.240 --> 0:29:08.680 give me like a meal from the hospital because I 0:29:08.800 --> 0:29:12.920 wasn't breastfeeding, and that was company policy, was only breastfeeding 0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:16.719 mothers get the meals in hospital, even though I couldn't 0:29:16.760 --> 0:29:18.520 leave my baby. I'm there to support his surgery. I 0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:20.880 was there for five days, and it was funny. The 0:29:21.000 --> 0:29:23.120 nurses would give me like a nod in a wink, 0:29:23.240 --> 0:29:27.400 being like, so you're breastfeeding. Yeah, but they would like 0:29:27.520 --> 0:29:30.480 sneak me spaghetti bolonnais because they're like, well, this is bullshit. 0:29:30.520 --> 0:29:32.880 I can't believe that we can't feed you as a 0:29:32.920 --> 0:29:35.080 mother of a six week old baby, and you can't 0:29:35.120 --> 0:29:37.760 leave this hospital, and so yeah, those the kind of 0:29:37.840 --> 0:29:41.680 reminders happen all the time, and it's just insane, you know. 0:29:41.880 --> 0:29:43.440 I find it hard. Even with a lot of the 0:29:43.680 --> 0:29:46.480 baby food books that you read when you start solids, 0:29:46.840 --> 0:29:48.920 they have all these pages and pages devoted to how 0:29:48.920 --> 0:29:51.200 amazing breast milk is and you know, mix that with 0:29:51.240 --> 0:29:52.800 your wheat bigs and it's the best start for your 0:29:52.840 --> 0:29:55.240 baby's life. And I feel like no one was really 0:29:55.320 --> 0:29:57.440 talking about, well, what if you physically can't do it? 0:29:57.760 --> 0:29:59.160 And that's why I really wanted to put it in 0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:01.520 the book and talk about it, because I didn't know 0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:04.000 anyone that had a journey like mine, and I felt 0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:06.400 so alone in those moments and like such a failure, 0:30:07.320 --> 0:30:11.360 and it does not matter. He's so healthy, like he's thriving, 0:30:11.440 --> 0:30:15.560 he's ninety eighth percentile weight and hide and walking very early. 0:30:15.680 --> 0:30:16.640 Might I add very. 0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:19.920 Advanced obviously so advanced. 0:30:21.040 --> 0:30:23.360 But that's the thing. It's like, it doesn't matter. And 0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:25.840 so it's like, the more conversations we can have around it, 0:30:25.880 --> 0:30:26.960 I think is super powerful. 0:30:27.360 --> 0:30:30.560 Absolutely, And I have had a lot of questions and 0:30:30.640 --> 0:30:34.480 I will do in this segment an episode on for 0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:37.200 those who can breastfeed. There are a lot of questions 0:30:37.200 --> 0:30:39.000 around pumping schedules and stuff, and I do want to 0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:41.480 answer them, but I will be at pains to say, 0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:44.200 like it is, I'm trying to do the most neutral 0:30:44.240 --> 0:30:46.600 delivery ever because it just happens. 0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:48.680 That I could breastfeed. So I am. 0:30:49.360 --> 0:30:53.560 But I think the fact that it's framed like a choice, yes, 0:30:53.760 --> 0:30:56.000 for a lot of people, it's like and I think 0:30:56.080 --> 0:30:58.000 it's amazing. There are lots of people I know who 0:30:58.200 --> 0:31:01.360 choose they can breastfeed, but they choose to either start 0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:03.239 with formula or migrate when they need to go back 0:31:03.280 --> 0:31:05.480 to work or whatever it is. But it is not 0:31:05.680 --> 0:31:09.040 a choice for a lot of people. So to frame 0:31:09.120 --> 0:31:11.360 it that way, like breast is, Like, I'm sure, yes, 0:31:11.680 --> 0:31:13.959 breast is best in terms of like if you're choosing 0:31:14.080 --> 0:31:18.440 in a totally neutral landscape, but how shit is it 0:31:18.480 --> 0:31:20.440 going to make the people feel who can't choose that? 0:31:20.760 --> 0:31:23.160 Yeah? Literally, And you're so right because I had a 0:31:23.200 --> 0:31:26.080 girlfriend of mine who could breastfeed but hated it, and 0:31:26.240 --> 0:31:29.080 she felt so much guilt using formula because she's like, 0:31:29.160 --> 0:31:32.360 oh I can, so I should be breastfeeding him. But 0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:35.320 it's also like what about your mental health and if 0:31:35.360 --> 0:31:37.600 you're going back to work and all these different things, 0:31:37.720 --> 0:31:40.160 And feeding comes up in the book a lot because 0:31:40.160 --> 0:31:43.080 a lot of women did transition to formula earlier because 0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:46.880 it wasn't sustainable pumping at work or pumping during meetings, 0:31:47.200 --> 0:31:49.360 all that pressure to keep the supply going when they're 0:31:49.360 --> 0:31:52.240 trying to work a nine to five job, and there's 0:31:52.280 --> 0:31:54.520 so many complexities to it. So yeah, and I think 0:31:54.560 --> 0:31:56.880 at the same time, like, even though I'm very sensitive 0:31:57.320 --> 0:31:59.600 about it, I always try to understand that, like, no 0:31:59.680 --> 0:32:02.000 one is posting stuff out there to make me feel 0:32:02.040 --> 0:32:05.120 bad if it are sharing their own personal experience as well. Yeah, 0:32:05.160 --> 0:32:06.920 so we all should give each other a literally grace. 0:32:07.320 --> 0:32:11.680 Yeah, And like I personally really love breastfeeding. It's been 0:32:11.720 --> 0:32:15.320 a really beautiful part of motherhood for me. I think 0:32:15.400 --> 0:32:18.080 because I didn't expect it. I think because Mum obviously 0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:21.200 it wasn't even on the cards. We've kind of been 0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:23.840 on this journey of learning about it together and that 0:32:24.120 --> 0:32:27.240 like it's so it's just so different for everyone. But 0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:30.840 I also feel like, because it is so much complexity 0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:32.480 around the issue that I almost don't want to say 0:32:32.560 --> 0:32:35.360 that either because I don't want to make anyone feel bad. 0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:39.640 But it has become a lot more difficult now that 0:32:39.720 --> 0:32:42.320 I am doing longer, like I am able to leave 0:32:42.360 --> 0:32:43.920 him for a little bit longer, as you mentioned, like 0:32:44.000 --> 0:32:46.800 I was doing my first sort of eight hour days. 0:32:47.320 --> 0:32:49.440 The longest I'd been away from Teddy before was three hours, 0:32:49.480 --> 0:32:50.840 so we only had to do one bottle, so I 0:32:50.880 --> 0:32:53.640 only had to pump once a day. But the milk 0:32:53.680 --> 0:32:56.400 that I had in the fridge was so much because 0:32:56.440 --> 0:32:59.520 I had had to plan like fourteen days out to 0:32:59.560 --> 0:33:01.959 start to up my supply, knowing that i'd have two 0:33:02.040 --> 0:33:03.800 days in a row, and that milk goes off if 0:33:03.840 --> 0:33:05.400 you can't use it after said in two hours, Like 0:33:05.480 --> 0:33:08.840 there's the logistics, and this comes back to the juggle. 0:33:09.040 --> 0:33:13.560 The logistics, no matter what, of being away from your child, 0:33:14.560 --> 0:33:17.440 especially when you go back early because women in business 0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:20.880 don't really take maternity leave is an enormous physical load 0:33:21.040 --> 0:33:23.479 and an enormous mental load. So I want to move 0:33:23.560 --> 0:33:26.360 on now to like the mechanics of the juggle and 0:33:26.440 --> 0:33:29.760 the fact that most of the women in the book, yourself, 0:33:29.960 --> 0:33:33.280 myself took sort of, you know, a couple of weeks 0:33:33.360 --> 0:33:36.640 to a couple of days of maternity leave, yeah, and 0:33:36.760 --> 0:33:39.880 then had to work out the juggle of nanny's, daycare, 0:33:40.560 --> 0:33:44.560 pumping formula, relying on partners. There's single mothers in there 0:33:44.600 --> 0:33:47.080 as well who don't have partners to rely on. How 0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:49.680 you and pat split the load, how did you work 0:33:49.720 --> 0:33:51.840 out your mechanics? Like what does that look like right now? 0:33:52.080 --> 0:33:54.000 And then take us through how you kind of got there, 0:33:54.080 --> 0:33:56.680 like when you first when he first went to daycare, 0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:58.680 and how you decided that and getting a nanny and 0:33:58.720 --> 0:33:59.280 all that stuff. 0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:02.080 Yeah. Total, And I found it so pervy after these 0:34:02.200 --> 0:34:05.040 questions to people, because I'm like so nosy and I'm like, 0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:07.400 how are you doing it? And I think it's really 0:34:07.480 --> 0:34:09.920 I don't know, I find it really empowering hearing someone 0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:14.560 who I think has an amazing aspirational lifestyle. Hearing them say, 0:34:15.000 --> 0:34:16.560 oh my gosh, I don't do it all or I 0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:18.680 have heaps of help, I'm like, okay, good, We're all 0:34:18.760 --> 0:34:21.440 just human beings writing our best. How amazing. So that 0:34:21.520 --> 0:34:23.239 was a really big part of the interview question. I 0:34:23.320 --> 0:34:26.879 wanted just them to be like, feel comfortable enough to say, yeah, 0:34:26.880 --> 0:34:28.680 I have a nanny or in some cases, I have 0:34:28.800 --> 0:34:31.319 three nannies and that's how I do it all. Because 0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:33.960 it's not sustainable trying to be everything all the time. 0:34:34.080 --> 0:34:35.920 You'll burn out and be depleted, and then you'll be 0:34:36.000 --> 0:34:38.600 a terrible mum and partner because you have nothing left 0:34:38.680 --> 0:34:41.440 to give. So I kind of went into it with 0:34:41.600 --> 0:34:43.960 those conversations that I already had had about help and 0:34:44.040 --> 0:34:47.000 how important it is and how varied it is. I 0:34:47.080 --> 0:34:49.279 think again, with the formula, it meant that Pat and 0:34:49.360 --> 0:34:51.680 I could parent fifty to fifty, which was super empowering 0:34:52.040 --> 0:34:54.760 for him, meaning that I could go to the office 0:34:55.000 --> 0:34:56.759 or go to a work event, or I had to 0:34:56.760 --> 0:34:58.400 go to Sydney quite a few times when he was 0:34:58.480 --> 0:35:00.879 like three or four months old. Knew he'd be okay. 0:35:01.080 --> 0:35:02.560 So that was really great to kind of have that 0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:05.359 parenting structure, and we split it up in a sense 0:35:05.400 --> 0:35:07.520 where like I would always do the overnight fees and 0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:09.160 pot would do first thing in the morning, and then 0:35:09.200 --> 0:35:11.480 we'd try and share it during the day as well, 0:35:11.600 --> 0:35:13.920 and knowing that we both worked in the business, we 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:15.880 could kind of know what's coming up when there are 0:35:15.920 --> 0:35:18.920 busy things and issues to be sold, and so that 0:35:19.160 --> 0:35:21.600 like transparency of what we're working on really helped us 0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:24.360 divide and conquer as well. And so we did that 0:35:24.719 --> 0:35:26.840 in a shared load for the first couple of months 0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:30.839 while I still was like coming back part time ish 0:35:31.120 --> 0:35:34.400 or like just working when I could basically, and then 0:35:34.960 --> 0:35:36.719 I actually found it really helpful going back to the 0:35:36.800 --> 0:35:39.120 office for my mental health. And I loved having that 0:35:39.200 --> 0:35:42.600 structure returning to work and knowing I had these set days, 0:35:43.120 --> 0:35:47.600 not being Henry's mum or not being Genevieve day singing 0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:49.840 incy wincy Spider. They knew I could go back me 0:35:51.640 --> 0:35:54.279 day management. I loved being able to like dress up 0:35:54.280 --> 0:35:56.080 in a cute outfit and go to the office. And 0:35:56.160 --> 0:35:59.080 so that structure, which was probably January this year, so 0:35:59.200 --> 0:36:01.560 he would have been like three and a half months old, 0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:05.280 we had my parents do one day a week. Pat's 0:36:05.320 --> 0:36:07.080 mum did one day a week. Pat and I would 0:36:07.120 --> 0:36:09.400 kind of share the other three days fifty to fifty, 0:36:09.800 --> 0:36:11.400 and then when he was four months old, we ended 0:36:11.480 --> 0:36:15.080 up actually getting a nanny for the Wednesday, so Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, 0:36:15.160 --> 0:36:18.719 we had support for those big like eight hour days 0:36:18.719 --> 0:36:20.560 in the office or we were away from him for 0:36:20.600 --> 0:36:22.560 a long period of time, and then we kind of 0:36:22.680 --> 0:36:25.480 tried to share the Mondays and Fridays with him and 0:36:25.600 --> 0:36:30.120 both working, and that just became not sustainable because obviously 0:36:30.719 --> 0:36:34.000 I got busier, Pat got busier, Henry slept less, and 0:36:34.120 --> 0:36:36.480 he was getting older and needed more attention, and he 0:36:36.800 --> 0:36:39.120 is super active, so he was not going to like 0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:40.560 he also doesn't really sleep at all, so he'd have 0:36:40.600 --> 0:36:42.400 like a forty five minute now, and so if you 0:36:42.440 --> 0:36:44.080 don't take him out to the park, like he's going 0:36:44.120 --> 0:36:46.160 to combust or something. It got to a stage where 0:36:46.200 --> 0:36:48.200 I was like, this is not sustainable, and we were 0:36:48.280 --> 0:36:50.320 kind of bickering with each other of like, well, I 0:36:50.360 --> 0:36:51.839 need to jump on this phone call, and I've got 0:36:51.880 --> 0:36:54.239 this conference call or I've got this meeting, and so 0:36:54.280 --> 0:36:56.880 it just became we needed to put him into daycare. 0:36:56.920 --> 0:37:00.200 Basically around he would have just been like a eleven 0:37:00.239 --> 0:37:02.600 and a half months, almost one. So it's been in 0:37:02.719 --> 0:37:05.920 daycare for like three and a half weeks now and 0:37:06.040 --> 0:37:10.440 we've already got gastro and conjunctividis hot. Yeah, love it, 0:37:11.200 --> 0:37:13.240 And it's a big adjustment. Because we had the nanny, 0:37:13.280 --> 0:37:15.400 she would also help us by doing the washing and 0:37:15.480 --> 0:37:18.239 preparing some of the dinners and that kind of thing. 0:37:19.160 --> 0:37:20.800 But instead I'm back to meal prepping for him on 0:37:20.840 --> 0:37:23.200 a Sunday for like three hours. But that's kind of 0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:26.000 the way that we did all the help and the juggle, 0:37:26.080 --> 0:37:28.279 and we're so lucky to have family support and we 0:37:28.400 --> 0:37:31.520 definitely lean on them a lot, especially yeah, if I 0:37:31.600 --> 0:37:33.680 have to go into state for something, or we've gotten 0:37:33.960 --> 0:37:36.839 early morning work call with America's time zone or whatever 0:37:36.840 --> 0:37:39.480 it might be. So that's kind of how we've juggled it, 0:37:39.520 --> 0:37:41.960 and it definitely has not been perfect, and I think 0:37:42.040 --> 0:37:44.320 that we really stucked it up a little bit. We 0:37:44.440 --> 0:37:47.040 were trying to have work days but have a baby 0:37:47.080 --> 0:37:49.680 there at the same time, because just for us and 0:37:50.120 --> 0:37:52.480 the way that he slept and lived and played is 0:37:52.600 --> 0:37:54.879 like you can't do two things at once with him, 0:37:55.480 --> 0:37:57.239 and I see people online I have the baby in 0:37:57.280 --> 0:37:59.080 a really cool playpan, and they're emailing and I'm like, 0:37:59.120 --> 0:38:01.600 that is just not my real Like, he'll never sleep 0:38:01.640 --> 0:38:03.719 for more than an hour, so it's like I don't 0:38:03.800 --> 0:38:07.040 have big, solid work chunks to get done while he's here. 0:38:07.280 --> 0:38:08.000 Yeah, we're the same. 0:38:08.080 --> 0:38:10.319 You can't do two things at once with Teddy at all, 0:38:10.640 --> 0:38:12.799 except that he sleeps for half an hour, not an 0:38:12.880 --> 0:38:16.160 hour during the day, which is Yeah, it's a juggle, but. 0:38:16.200 --> 0:38:17.920 Yes, that was kind of how we navigated it. We 0:38:18.000 --> 0:38:20.200 did parents at a nanny and then now daycare, and 0:38:20.840 --> 0:38:24.280 we feel so much lighter, not trying to cram everything 0:38:24.360 --> 0:38:25.399 into one day. 0:38:25.840 --> 0:38:28.680 I feel like watching your evolution of the juggle and 0:38:28.719 --> 0:38:32.320 then also reading the book and you're covering other people 0:38:32.440 --> 0:38:34.200 navigating the juggle who are like a little bit further 0:38:34.440 --> 0:38:37.480 ahead of you. It's gone from like this intense guilt 0:38:37.600 --> 0:38:39.800 about guilt on both sides. If I'm not in my business, 0:38:39.840 --> 0:38:41.640 like you said, I don't look like I'm working hard enough. 0:38:41.680 --> 0:38:43.160 But if I'm not at home enough, then is he 0:38:43.239 --> 0:38:45.600 going to be developing fast enough and meeting his milestones 0:38:45.640 --> 0:38:47.839 and whatever? And like is it too early to get 0:38:47.840 --> 0:38:49.399 a nanny or is it, and that's like it's every 0:38:49.480 --> 0:38:51.800 mum goes through that no matter when, and what juggle, 0:38:52.360 --> 0:38:55.440 like what mechanics your juggle looks like, but that it's 0:38:55.520 --> 0:38:58.839 been this evolution towards like realizing that the decisions you've 0:38:58.840 --> 0:39:02.320 made along the way make you all happier, and that 0:39:02.480 --> 0:39:04.600 like who cares what it looks like compared to anyone 0:39:04.640 --> 0:39:07.560 else's Once you make the decisions that work in your 0:39:07.680 --> 0:39:11.040 life for your family, like everything just works better. But 0:39:11.160 --> 0:39:13.640 it takes such a mental hurdle to get there. And 0:39:14.000 --> 0:39:16.839 it seems like everyone in the book had this kind 0:39:16.880 --> 0:39:20.920 of aha moment of like stop fighting what you need 0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:24.120 in your life to make it look like someone else's. 0:39:24.239 --> 0:39:25.920 And that's such a good point. And even like we 0:39:26.120 --> 0:39:27.719 had to kind of sit down together and look at 0:39:27.760 --> 0:39:29.239 a budget to say, okay, well, if I go back 0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:31.560 to work an additional day, we can then afford to 0:39:31.600 --> 0:39:33.600 get a cleaner once a fortnight so I'm not having 0:39:33.680 --> 0:39:36.760 to look after him and work and scrubb a shower 0:39:36.800 --> 0:39:38.839 and that kind of thing. Or in the beginning, when 0:39:38.840 --> 0:39:41.240 he first out of solids, we use that La Puree 0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:43.879 brand because I was like, I do don't have time 0:39:44.000 --> 0:39:47.040 to make him organic bone broth and then pure it, 0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:49.840 which takes a hour. I'm not doing that, but I 0:39:49.920 --> 0:39:51.200 still want to be a good mum and still want 0:39:51.200 --> 0:39:52.239 to give that to him, So I'm just going to 0:39:52.280 --> 0:39:55.400 outsource that and buy it. And like it is expensive, 0:39:55.520 --> 0:39:58.600 and you know, those are elements that do cost money, 0:39:58.680 --> 0:40:00.560 but we had to crunch it down to be like, well, 0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:02.960 let's just cut back on other areas to afford that 0:40:03.480 --> 0:40:05.880 because it gives us the time back in our lives 0:40:05.960 --> 0:40:08.080 where we can then spend our time with our son. 0:40:08.840 --> 0:40:10.840 And I won't say that I didn't feel judged that 0:40:10.960 --> 0:40:13.520 whole time for having a nanny, and like four months 0:40:13.560 --> 0:40:16.080 is quite young to be getting external help. And you know, 0:40:16.200 --> 0:40:18.480 he went into daycare at one also because I think 0:40:18.520 --> 0:40:21.160 he needed more social interaction and he was getting a 0:40:21.160 --> 0:40:23.440 little bit brady and like not sharing well. And I'm 0:40:23.480 --> 0:40:27.480 like times I've seen some other kids, but it's so hard, 0:40:27.520 --> 0:40:29.520 but you're right, everyone's on their own journey and if 0:40:29.560 --> 0:40:31.320 you just accept what works for you and your family. 0:40:31.920 --> 0:40:35.080 Yeah, And You've been such an amazing not just role 0:40:35.120 --> 0:40:37.600 model but also mentor for me in this area because 0:40:37.640 --> 0:40:39.319 so many times I've called you to say, like, at 0:40:39.360 --> 0:40:41.480 what age did do this, and who did you go 0:40:41.560 --> 0:40:43.920 to and blah blah blah, but you've sort of been like, well, 0:40:43.960 --> 0:40:45.800 this is what I did, but also very much like 0:40:46.480 --> 0:40:49.360 it depends on what you need right now, like it 0:40:49.440 --> 0:40:51.719 doesn't have to look the same, and there's no sort 0:40:51.719 --> 0:40:53.400 of too early or too late. And I think for 0:40:53.960 --> 0:40:57.760 any mum's listening, our conversation is obviously very weighted towards 0:40:58.120 --> 0:41:00.360 women who have gone back to work very early, not 0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:03.040 taking traditional maternity leave. Our guilty is all around how 0:41:03.120 --> 0:41:05.920 early we do things or how much we sort of 0:41:06.080 --> 0:41:09.279 end up needing help earlier. But I think at the 0:41:09.320 --> 0:41:10.920 other end of the spectrum, there are also women who 0:41:10.960 --> 0:41:13.960 take twelve months maternity leave and they feel like everyone's saying, oh, 0:41:14.040 --> 0:41:16.880 look how much time you have, Oh, you'll get so 0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:20.560 much done. That people think they're lazy because they're at 0:41:20.600 --> 0:41:22.279 home for twelve months with it. It's like you are 0:41:22.360 --> 0:41:25.480 raising a child, Like I'm sure their loss of identity 0:41:25.600 --> 0:41:27.800 is the other way around, like losing their working identity 0:41:27.880 --> 0:41:33.080 completely and feeling guilt around that. What I find really 0:41:33.160 --> 0:41:37.200 interesting now is that your struggle and having like kind 0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:39.320 of gone through that with you was at the beginning 0:41:39.360 --> 0:41:41.319 feeling guilt about not loving the newborn phase. 0:41:41.360 --> 0:41:42.240 When everyone talks. 0:41:42.080 --> 0:41:45.560 About the newborn bubble and how beautiful that is. I 0:41:45.760 --> 0:41:49.920 have found it the opposite in that. And you know 0:41:50.040 --> 0:41:52.680 this intimately because we're going through it right now. And 0:41:52.800 --> 0:41:55.160 to answer everyone who's been submitting questions about sort of 0:41:55.200 --> 0:41:58.480 the juggle for me, I found the juggle relatively easy. 0:41:58.840 --> 0:42:01.080 I mean still hard in the text of parenthood is 0:42:01.120 --> 0:42:05.200 hard and your life changes dramatically. But I found maybe 0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:08.120 because I had really low expectations. Nick and I also 0:42:08.200 --> 0:42:10.880 work really flexibly. Teddy was a really good sleeper at 0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:14.840 the start. We have so much family support in the 0:42:14.920 --> 0:42:17.759 immediate five k's of our house, so we haven't had 0:42:17.760 --> 0:42:19.960 an annial daycare yet, and it didn't really feel like 0:42:20.040 --> 0:42:22.120 a juggle, you know. I went back to work like 0:42:22.200 --> 0:42:24.920 that first photo shoot was at five weeks, but I had, 0:42:25.239 --> 0:42:27.919 like Nick, my mum and my auntie's there you there 0:42:28.040 --> 0:42:30.000 who's also a mum and who was going through it 0:42:30.040 --> 0:42:32.799 at the same time. It was hard, but it wasn't overwhelming. 0:42:32.920 --> 0:42:34.720 And then I went back to work at six weeks. 0:42:35.280 --> 0:42:38.719 Our work is so flexible. Everyone like the TV show 0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:41.719 came to film my house. I could, you know, do 0:42:41.840 --> 0:42:44.520 a couple of hours of contact work sort of a week, 0:42:44.640 --> 0:42:47.600 but then do the rest from home. I actually felt 0:42:47.760 --> 0:42:51.920 really like, I'm okay at this for the whole first bit, 0:42:52.040 --> 0:42:54.800 and I was in that newborn bubble where I didn't 0:42:54.840 --> 0:42:58.400 have sort of guilt or regret or anything, which surprised me. 0:42:58.600 --> 0:43:01.719 But what a lot of people who have that experience 0:43:01.840 --> 0:43:04.399 have is that then they get to sort of four 0:43:04.480 --> 0:43:05.040 to six. 0:43:04.920 --> 0:43:06.839 Months and then it's hard. 0:43:07.040 --> 0:43:09.680 And it's funny that the first time I've ever wished, 0:43:09.840 --> 0:43:12.440 Like my dialogue to people, and probably even in the podcast, 0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:14.520 so I hope I am correcting that for people who 0:43:14.560 --> 0:43:17.560 have been listening. My dialogue at the start was I 0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:20.000 really thought that, you know, this would be the first 0:43:20.040 --> 0:43:22.680 time I miss corporate, and that I you know, I've 0:43:22.760 --> 0:43:25.160 never regretted leaving law, but that this might be the 0:43:25.200 --> 0:43:27.320 first time that I do because paid maternity leave, but 0:43:27.360 --> 0:43:29.719 I didn't, I don't regret that, blah blah blah. A 0:43:29.800 --> 0:43:32.880 couple of months on, I'm like, I almost wish that 0:43:33.920 --> 0:43:36.439 I could take maternity leave now. It's like you could 0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:38.520 take you could not take it for six months and 0:43:38.560 --> 0:43:41.440 then take it now, because now has been when I 0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:43.719 found it the hardest and then I feel guilty of 0:43:43.800 --> 0:43:46.399 in saying that because I'm like, he's such a good baby. 0:43:46.480 --> 0:43:48.640 I love my child. I don't hate motherhood. I love 0:43:48.680 --> 0:43:51.880 being among more than anything. But like you said, I 0:43:52.960 --> 0:43:55.719 have not been diagnosed with postpartum anxiety or depression, but 0:43:55.800 --> 0:43:58.840 I would definitely say maybe two three weeks ago. I 0:43:58.920 --> 0:44:00.560 mean I was pretty much telling you. I was like, Jen, 0:44:00.640 --> 0:44:04.600 I can't, I can't life, and it was another topic 0:44:04.719 --> 0:44:06.880 that's so heated and heavy and loaded. 0:44:07.400 --> 0:44:09.120 It was all sleep for me. Again. 0:44:09.200 --> 0:44:11.359 You were such a good comfort for because Henry also 0:44:11.480 --> 0:44:15.759 wasn't sleeping that Teddy. We took him overseas at that time. 0:44:15.840 --> 0:44:20.560 He was an eight hour stretch minimum, easy sleeper until 0:44:20.600 --> 0:44:23.799 we went to Italy. Italy was incredible. We'll do an 0:44:23.800 --> 0:44:26.320 episode on traveling with a baby. It is coming, I promised. 0:44:26.440 --> 0:44:28.480 Then we came back, he had jet lag and that 0:44:29.080 --> 0:44:32.600 led into this four month regression that lasted. I don't 0:44:32.600 --> 0:44:34.480 want to scare anyone off, but some of them last 0:44:34.600 --> 0:44:37.239 couple of weeks and they resolve. Teddy's kind of went 0:44:37.320 --> 0:44:40.719 for eight weeks plus, and that was like I was 0:44:40.760 --> 0:44:45.160 waking up every one and a half hours all day 0:44:45.239 --> 0:44:48.560 every day for like sixty something days, and then my 0:44:49.000 --> 0:44:51.239 sort of manifestation of what we spoke about earlier of 0:44:51.360 --> 0:44:53.920 like I'm still present and available and don't think that 0:44:54.040 --> 0:44:57.640 you can't book me was just keep going, like just 0:44:57.800 --> 0:45:02.440 suck it up and don't knowledge that anything's like hard, 0:45:02.680 --> 0:45:05.000 and just keep selling the story that let you're fine, 0:45:05.760 --> 0:45:08.320 until then suddenly I was like I reached this critical 0:45:08.360 --> 0:45:09.840 point in around seven weeks and I was like. 0:45:10.160 --> 0:45:10.840 I'm not fine. 0:45:11.400 --> 0:45:12.560 This is not sustainable. 0:45:12.840 --> 0:45:15.759 Yeah, this is people kept telling me in war, they 0:45:15.920 --> 0:45:18.919 use this as torture, like sleep deprivation is a form 0:45:19.040 --> 0:45:19.800 of torture. 0:45:20.320 --> 0:45:21.320 And it just crumbled. 0:45:21.480 --> 0:45:24.319 And I was like, you and I are terrible at 0:45:24.360 --> 0:45:26.200 saying that we're having a hard time at something. But 0:45:26.239 --> 0:45:28.400 I was like I actually need to vocalize this and 0:45:28.520 --> 0:45:32.200 like go and stay at a postpartum hotel. Yeah, because 0:45:32.440 --> 0:45:34.760 like I can't do this anymore. I need a circuit breaker. 0:45:35.000 --> 0:45:37.520 No one ever tells you that you're normal to feel 0:45:37.600 --> 0:45:39.520 that way that you're like, this is a form of 0:45:39.640 --> 0:45:42.680 torture and it is so hard. But again you're like, 0:45:42.760 --> 0:45:45.680 why is it just my baby? Everyone else's baby sleeping, 0:45:45.760 --> 0:45:48.400 but my baby won't say through the night. And Henry 0:45:48.400 --> 0:45:50.520 didn't say through the night till he was eleven months old, 0:45:50.719 --> 0:45:53.399 so I had over a year of no speak because 0:45:53.400 --> 0:45:56.040 when you're that pregnant, you don't sleep either. And people 0:45:56.080 --> 0:45:57.759 would be like, oh, no, I'm in a regression. I 0:45:57.840 --> 0:45:59.240 was like, my whole life is a regression. 0:46:00.800 --> 0:46:04.040 We live aggression. And then yeah, it's like the same 0:46:04.120 --> 0:46:06.800 as for you with breastfeeding. I would feel that mothers 0:46:06.840 --> 0:46:10.839 who were posting someone put something up about how they 0:46:10.920 --> 0:46:13.480 thought it didn't exist, like and that, you know, there's 0:46:13.480 --> 0:46:15.440 a lot of literature out there that it doesn't exist, 0:46:15.560 --> 0:46:18.239 which each to their own, like, I'm sure there are 0:46:18.280 --> 0:46:21.320 lots of babies who have shown zero manifestations of any interruption, 0:46:21.520 --> 0:46:24.960 but in my world, it very much exists. It was 0:46:25.120 --> 0:46:28.200 very much like bang on timing. He was two weeks early, 0:46:28.280 --> 0:46:30.920 so it was four and a half months on the dot. Yeah, 0:46:30.920 --> 0:46:33.440 I'll do a whole separate sleep episode on sort of 0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:35.480 how we've navigated out of that. But that's when the 0:46:35.560 --> 0:46:37.920 juggle became a juggle for me, Like suddenly I was 0:46:38.280 --> 0:46:39.880 I think one of the things I loved so much 0:46:39.920 --> 0:46:44.000 about your book is that everyone said the narrative that 0:46:44.040 --> 0:46:44.359 you can. 0:46:44.280 --> 0:46:45.200 Do it all is bullshit. 0:46:45.920 --> 0:46:49.440 Except you can do everything you want to do, just 0:46:49.560 --> 0:46:52.000 not all at the same time. You just have to 0:46:52.120 --> 0:46:55.080 juggle it in the way that works for you. You 0:46:55.560 --> 0:46:57.319 just can't do it all at once. And I kept 0:46:57.360 --> 0:47:01.840 trying to do socializing, seeing my friend and not really exercising, 0:47:01.880 --> 0:47:05.760 but at least like a little bit of outdoors walking, sleeping, 0:47:05.920 --> 0:47:08.520 being a mom and being a present mum, waking up 0:47:08.520 --> 0:47:09.839 to him all the time, feeding it back to sleep 0:47:09.880 --> 0:47:11.680 six times a night, and then going to work a 0:47:11.719 --> 0:47:14.919 full day, all day every day, and something had to give. 0:47:15.200 --> 0:47:18.320 Yeah, And I think it's insane when you list it 0:47:18.440 --> 0:47:21.719 like that. No person can pull that off. And I 0:47:21.840 --> 0:47:25.040 also felt that like I kind of enjoyed going to work, 0:47:25.160 --> 0:47:26.799 going to the office in those days, and I'd been 0:47:26.920 --> 0:47:28.880 up four or five times in the nine but I 0:47:28.960 --> 0:47:32.600 could like cosplay someone who was normal and had heaps 0:47:32.640 --> 0:47:34.880 of sleep, and the lovely girls in the office who 0:47:34.920 --> 0:47:37.040 were like twenty five, like, oh my god, I'm exhausted. 0:47:37.760 --> 0:47:39.880 I was like, oh, are you tired because he's late 0:47:39.920 --> 0:47:43.359 watching Netflix. Wow. Sleep for us was a huge thing, 0:47:43.480 --> 0:47:46.040 But I feel like, again, I just always spoke about it. 0:47:46.080 --> 0:47:49.240 I was like, he's a terrible sleeper. He always hated 0:47:49.360 --> 0:47:51.879 day n apps. He would never sleep in the prem 0:47:52.080 --> 0:47:54.640 never sleep in the cast. We couldn't go anywhere. And 0:47:54.680 --> 0:47:56.759 then we did sleep training at four months, and even 0:47:56.840 --> 0:48:00.440 the sleep training consultant told me, oh wow, I love 0:48:00.480 --> 0:48:04.120 a challenge, and he's a challenge. Three to five days 0:48:04.440 --> 0:48:07.759 was the sleep training like life cycle, and I called 0:48:07.760 --> 0:48:09.520 her in day five and I was like, come, well, 0:48:09.560 --> 0:48:12.719 it's still not working, and she goes, Okay, I think 0:48:12.760 --> 0:48:15.719 it's actually going to be twenty one days. And again 0:48:15.840 --> 0:48:17.800 everyone has their methods. Is just what we decided to 0:48:17.920 --> 0:48:20.640 use and what worked for us. But responsive settling. So 0:48:20.719 --> 0:48:22.279 we left him in the room to cry for a 0:48:22.360 --> 0:48:24.560 bit and we'd time it and then go back in 0:48:24.800 --> 0:48:27.719 after a certain amount of time. But he's the most 0:48:28.040 --> 0:48:30.800 stubborn determined kid, which I love that about him, Like 0:48:30.920 --> 0:48:33.919 he's so independent, he is so strong willed. He would 0:48:34.000 --> 0:48:36.440 just stand up at the cot and scream and like 0:48:36.600 --> 0:48:39.080 shake the cot in like stare at the baking auditor, 0:48:39.200 --> 0:48:41.640 like straight into the camera, and we were like, no, 0:48:41.760 --> 0:48:44.560 we have to like keep going, and then we'd get 0:48:44.560 --> 0:48:46.680 in the good rhythm and then he would go backwards 0:48:46.719 --> 0:48:49.520 and we'd sleep around him again, and so yeah, it 0:48:49.560 --> 0:48:51.399 took eleven months and a sleep through the night, which 0:48:51.520 --> 0:48:53.680 at the moment he's been a dream and it's been 0:48:53.800 --> 0:48:57.400 like twelve hours of sleep seven till seven beautiful day 0:48:57.480 --> 0:48:59.600 n apps, forty minute daynaps. But he goes straight to 0:48:59.680 --> 0:49:02.160 sleep now. But there were periods of time there where 0:49:02.160 --> 0:49:04.719 I'd be like settling him for an hour with like 0:49:04.760 --> 0:49:07.520 an audiobook in my AirPods, just like patting his bum, 0:49:07.719 --> 0:49:09.520 leave the room, go back in, leave, go back in, 0:49:10.040 --> 0:49:13.040 and then having to try and fit in work around 0:49:13.080 --> 0:49:16.320 that is truly insane. And yeah, those I think the 0:49:16.360 --> 0:49:19.640 sleep deprivation also meant that I wasn't coping at the time, 0:49:19.880 --> 0:49:22.759 especially in those early days. I feel like so many 0:49:22.800 --> 0:49:25.160 people do these types of projects when they're out of 0:49:25.200 --> 0:49:27.480 the woods, right and they say, oh, they get so 0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:29.920 much better, And even me now with him being one, 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:32.800 I'm like, it's okay, Like he sleeps perfectly, it's fine, 0:49:32.800 --> 0:49:35.920 and you almost forget that pain. But what I loved 0:49:35.960 --> 0:49:38.359 about writing the book and doing it in like real 0:49:38.480 --> 0:49:40.960 time for me was that I would write down my 0:49:41.040 --> 0:49:43.319 thoughts at four weeks postparton, and then add a bit 0:49:43.400 --> 0:49:45.360 more at six weeks, and then edit the book at 0:49:45.520 --> 0:49:48.239 five months and do my final read over at six 0:49:48.320 --> 0:49:51.040 months old and beyond, and I look back and I think, 0:49:51.080 --> 0:49:54.000 oh my gosh, this girl sounds like unwell in the head. 0:49:54.640 --> 0:49:57.720 But also there isn't there aren't enough resources. I believe 0:49:57.760 --> 0:49:59.880 in people like in the thick of it saying like, 0:50:00.120 --> 0:50:03.320 this is so hard and I feel this way totally. 0:50:03.480 --> 0:50:05.480 And I loved that so much about it because I 0:50:05.560 --> 0:50:11.320 could see the evolution of you keeping parts in that 0:50:11.520 --> 0:50:14.000 were no longer how you felt, but reflecting that they 0:50:14.120 --> 0:50:16.879 were once how you felt. And same with the way 0:50:17.000 --> 0:50:19.560 that all the interviews were written, was that it was 0:50:19.600 --> 0:50:22.560 also like, particularly people who have multiple children, sort of 0:50:22.600 --> 0:50:24.640 the approach they had at the first child versus what 0:50:24.719 --> 0:50:27.239 they do now and the things they not regret but 0:50:27.360 --> 0:50:30.839 like would tell themselves earlier, which is the reader. That's 0:50:30.920 --> 0:50:33.640 the person that's earlier them if they could go back 0:50:33.680 --> 0:50:36.880 and have the chance. And I also want to dedicate 0:50:37.040 --> 0:50:39.759 an entire episode to sort of again, I kind of 0:50:39.800 --> 0:50:41.680 wish I'd recorded this when we were more in the 0:50:41.760 --> 0:50:44.040 thick of the sleep thing, because to give you hope, 0:50:44.200 --> 0:50:46.359 it has resolved a lot for us. So anyone listening, 0:50:46.400 --> 0:50:47.840 if you are in the thick of it, you know 0:50:47.960 --> 0:50:50.520 that we haven't been, and I promise you that it 0:50:50.600 --> 0:50:53.120 can get better, but I do sort of wish i'd 0:50:53.880 --> 0:50:56.560 similar to when we had our pregnancy loss, I sort 0:50:56.600 --> 0:51:00.520 of shared before we had our happy ending, and that 0:51:00.800 --> 0:51:04.320 was possibly more powerful. So yeah, but I documented a 0:51:04.360 --> 0:51:05.600 lot of it, and I will include that in the 0:51:05.600 --> 0:51:07.880 sleep episode which will come immediately after, because I think 0:51:07.920 --> 0:51:10.040 it's probably the most pressing. But one of the things 0:51:10.080 --> 0:51:11.919 you and I spoke about a lot during that time. 0:51:12.000 --> 0:51:14.960 I was literally guys calling Jen all the time, being like, 0:51:15.040 --> 0:51:17.040 tell me about day nannie, tell me about night nannies, 0:51:17.080 --> 0:51:19.640 tell me about sleep school, Like tell me about all 0:51:19.680 --> 0:51:20.720 the options on the spectrum? 0:51:20.719 --> 0:51:22.000 When do you do them? What are they called? 0:51:22.080 --> 0:51:24.200 Because you don't know that world and if you've never 0:51:24.239 --> 0:51:26.840 had to look it up before. And the funny thing 0:51:26.880 --> 0:51:29.680 that we always mentioned is that you had posted a 0:51:29.760 --> 0:51:32.720 photo of you lying on like not even a mattress, 0:51:32.760 --> 0:51:34.880 but like the play mat on the floor of Henry's 0:51:34.920 --> 0:51:36.759 bed all night, and no. 0:51:36.880 --> 0:51:37.879 One the next day. 0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:41.000 Not only do they not know, but their lives are 0:51:41.080 --> 0:51:43.920 so busy, not even out of sort of self centeredness, 0:51:43.960 --> 0:51:45.680 but no one cares that you didn't sleep the night 0:51:45.719 --> 0:51:48.279 before because they all have their own deliverables in their life, 0:51:48.360 --> 0:51:51.080 so you're just like walking around like a dead person. 0:51:51.640 --> 0:51:54.319 But the rest of the world doesn't care. So they 0:51:54.440 --> 0:51:56.440 need you to function the same as if you have slept. 0:51:56.480 --> 0:51:59.600 They need you to just keep going. And it's crazy 0:51:59.719 --> 0:52:03.759 that there's all these like deceased mothers walking around and 0:52:04.680 --> 0:52:07.120 fathers as well, but the rest of the world just 0:52:07.239 --> 0:52:09.520 keeps going, and you're like, how are you guys all 0:52:09.640 --> 0:52:12.839 just like up and about doing your thing. So it's 0:52:12.960 --> 0:52:16.680 I think the sleep part is a crazy interrelated part 0:52:16.719 --> 0:52:19.160 of the coping and juggling totally. 0:52:19.280 --> 0:52:21.279 And I think as well, it's like there is a 0:52:21.600 --> 0:52:25.160 portion to it where candidness and openness is so valuable 0:52:25.600 --> 0:52:28.600 to almost say, especially when you're leading a team where 0:52:28.800 --> 0:52:31.640 I am a business of being, like I can't operate 0:52:32.040 --> 0:52:34.920 at the functionality level that you deserve right now. And 0:52:35.000 --> 0:52:37.520 I think again, looking back, like I committed to some 0:52:37.600 --> 0:52:40.600 things work really really early on, Like I committed to 0:52:40.760 --> 0:52:42.840 a performance review fore of my team members and I 0:52:42.960 --> 0:52:45.920 was three weeks postpartum. We put that in before I 0:52:45.960 --> 0:52:48.719 had the baby, and I had no idea what that 0:52:48.840 --> 0:52:50.880 meant being three weeks postpartum. When I booked in I 0:52:50.960 --> 0:52:53.480 was like, of course, I'm amazing, I'll push through. Of 0:52:53.560 --> 0:52:55.879 course I'll be there. I'll pop into the office. He'll 0:52:55.880 --> 0:52:58.080 be three weeks old. And so I came in and 0:52:58.120 --> 0:52:59.920 I think I brought in with me and how was 0:53:00.440 --> 0:53:02.000 And I did the meeting and I think I was 0:53:02.040 --> 0:53:05.000 still wearing a nappy myself by that stage even and 0:53:05.560 --> 0:53:07.720 it was not a good performance review because I couldn't 0:53:07.760 --> 0:53:10.080 have prepared properly. I'd had like two hours chunks of 0:53:10.160 --> 0:53:13.160 sleep and row and you know, I wish I just 0:53:13.200 --> 0:53:15.040 looked back and said to the people around me, like, 0:53:15.239 --> 0:53:17.480 I can't give you the level that you deserve based 0:53:17.520 --> 0:53:20.320 on what I'm operating with right now. Let's reset for 0:53:20.840 --> 0:53:23.000 this date and then I can, you know, be the 0:53:23.080 --> 0:53:25.800 better leader for you, or be the better partner for you, 0:53:25.920 --> 0:53:28.240 or all those kind of things. And so there is power, 0:53:28.320 --> 0:53:31.239 I think, and admitting what you're coping with. But you're 0:53:31.320 --> 0:53:33.640 so right that on a day to day level, people 0:53:33.719 --> 0:53:35.239 don't care. And the people on the other end of 0:53:35.280 --> 0:53:37.520 your email, they don't care that I spent the night 0:53:37.600 --> 0:53:40.480 on the floor of his room, every three hours, you know, 0:53:40.600 --> 0:53:44.439 patting his bum to stop screaming, like wading all mums again, 0:53:44.480 --> 0:53:47.640 all parents understand that and have empathy and like a 0:53:47.760 --> 0:53:49.880 knowing glance across the room of like, I know what 0:53:49.960 --> 0:53:52.600 you've been through, but yeah, I think there's a mixture 0:53:52.600 --> 0:53:55.480 there of like pushing on because the world doesn't stop, 0:53:55.560 --> 0:53:57.719 but also acknowledging the people around you that like, this 0:53:57.840 --> 0:53:59.879 is what I can realistically give you right now. 0:54:00.400 --> 0:54:03.480 Yeah, and you created such a supportive environment where I 0:54:03.600 --> 0:54:05.960 really did feel like instead of like I battled on 0:54:06.120 --> 0:54:08.879 with it kind of being like, oh, I'm tired, but hah, 0:54:09.040 --> 0:54:11.959 this regression, but ha, I'm actually fine to then having 0:54:12.000 --> 0:54:14.400 to say, like, I really think I need to not 0:54:14.640 --> 0:54:17.120 have any expectations on me for the next sort of 0:54:17.239 --> 0:54:20.200 ten days so I can catch up to like rationality, 0:54:20.480 --> 0:54:22.600 because whatever I submit right now is not going to 0:54:22.600 --> 0:54:24.799 be my best work. So it's actually in everyone's best 0:54:24.840 --> 0:54:26.440 interest that we all just kind of like get on 0:54:26.480 --> 0:54:29.839 the page. And that's so especially for an A type 0:54:29.880 --> 0:54:32.480 personality who's really like likes to be good at stuff, 0:54:32.840 --> 0:54:35.520 and we're like twins in that regard. It's the hardest 0:54:35.520 --> 0:54:38.279 thing to ever say, is I am not doing well, Like. 0:54:38.320 --> 0:54:39.080 It's the worst. 0:54:39.239 --> 0:54:42.400 It's like not even in my vernacular. But once you 0:54:42.520 --> 0:54:46.520 do it like you suddenly feel so much better, and 0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:50.320 that sort of not even humility, but just like ability 0:54:50.440 --> 0:54:52.520 to accept that there are times where you can't do 0:54:52.560 --> 0:54:54.719 it all is a reflection I notice in every single 0:54:54.800 --> 0:54:58.080 woman's story in the book. And my biggest takeaway for 0:54:58.239 --> 0:55:01.400 you because it was your own story interweaved with and 0:55:01.480 --> 0:55:03.160 I love that you sort of do all the interviews 0:55:03.160 --> 0:55:04.880 and then you wrap it up with what have we 0:55:05.000 --> 0:55:08.040 learnt from these and then break it into really clear 0:55:08.120 --> 0:55:12.720 themes what is your biggest learning, maybe your biggest surprise 0:55:13.239 --> 0:55:18.520 from interviewing all these incredible women, And then, if it's different, 0:55:19.160 --> 0:55:21.120 the main thing that you want people to take away 0:55:21.120 --> 0:55:23.160 from the book except that they obviously have to read 0:55:23.200 --> 0:55:25.759 it as well. But if you wanted one thing to 0:55:25.840 --> 0:55:28.320 come from this episode and the book, what would it be? 0:55:28.680 --> 0:55:30.840 I mean, yeah, I think I really loved that structure 0:55:30.840 --> 0:55:32.640 as well. I wanted to hold this space for each 0:55:32.640 --> 0:55:34.799 of the women to tell their stories and to your 0:55:34.840 --> 0:55:37.640 point before about the different stages of their life. We 0:55:37.760 --> 0:55:40.840 had someone like Jesse Stevens, who was a week away 0:55:40.880 --> 0:55:43.200 from giving birth to her first child when she spoke 0:55:43.239 --> 0:55:46.680 to me, versus like celebrity stylist Lina Wilkinson, who her 0:55:46.840 --> 0:55:50.320 daughters are like almost tween ages. So it's you know, 0:55:50.480 --> 0:55:52.640 a full spectrum there of experience, which I found really 0:55:52.719 --> 0:55:55.799 valuable as well. And I think what I took away 0:55:55.840 --> 0:55:59.239 the most was having boundaries, which I know is such 0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:01.200 like an over there pized word, and part of me 0:56:01.239 --> 0:56:02.960 hates and people are like, I need to have boundaries. 0:56:03.320 --> 0:56:07.160 But I was always so committed to those around me 0:56:07.320 --> 0:56:09.879 and my job and the people relying on me through 0:56:10.239 --> 0:56:12.759 my agency, and I think that applies to anyone with 0:56:12.880 --> 0:56:15.160 a career. You'd have you know, direct reports and a 0:56:15.239 --> 0:56:18.560 boss and everything. I would just be like they would 0:56:18.560 --> 0:56:20.680 say jump, I'd say how high because it was only 0:56:21.239 --> 0:56:23.560 me that that was affecting. It was just my time, right. 0:56:24.400 --> 0:56:27.719 But then with a baby around, every time that that 0:56:27.800 --> 0:56:30.120 boundary was pushed, I was missing out in moments with 0:56:30.200 --> 0:56:32.520 my son, and more and more of those stories that 0:56:32.560 --> 0:56:34.759 I was told said the same thing, where they were like, 0:56:35.000 --> 0:56:37.080 you have to put those boundaries in place because clients 0:56:37.080 --> 0:56:39.160 will push you and work will push you, and you 0:56:39.280 --> 0:56:42.279 realize it's actually not worth the sacrifice when it does 0:56:42.360 --> 0:56:44.920 come at the cost of your family. And you know, 0:56:45.080 --> 0:56:48.400 I was pushed in my boundaries hours after giving birth, 0:56:48.440 --> 0:56:52.200 I had to jump into a contract resolution from hospital 0:56:52.360 --> 0:56:53.759 and then you know, like I said, I lost it 0:56:53.760 --> 0:56:55.560 almost a leader and a half of blood, and I was, 0:56:56.000 --> 0:56:58.920 you know, emailing the next day about something because a 0:56:59.000 --> 0:57:02.160 brand was pulling a sick, bigger contract deal and unfortunately 0:57:02.280 --> 0:57:05.520 only I had the context helped resolve that. So those 0:57:05.560 --> 0:57:08.440 are boundaries that were pushed. And then again coming into 0:57:08.480 --> 0:57:10.720 the office for those meetings so early on post pardon, 0:57:11.520 --> 0:57:13.120 and then it just happens all the time right where 0:57:13.120 --> 0:57:15.000 they think, okay, well it's not your official in the 0:57:15.040 --> 0:57:17.880 office day, but can you join this meeting It's really important, 0:57:18.240 --> 0:57:19.760 and you're like, oh, that's my day with my son, 0:57:20.000 --> 0:57:22.200 but okay, I'll be there. And that was something that 0:57:22.280 --> 0:57:23.760 came up again and again in the book with these 0:57:23.760 --> 0:57:26.320 women being like you just have to hold that time 0:57:26.640 --> 0:57:30.640 firmly for your family so you can be present. Then 0:57:30.680 --> 0:57:32.520 then you can be present at work as opposed to 0:57:32.600 --> 0:57:35.680 like a mismatch where you're not doing either party justice. 0:57:36.080 --> 0:57:38.960 And then just all the feelings and conversations around guilt, 0:57:39.320 --> 0:57:42.280 like I still feel so much mother's guilt, and every 0:57:42.320 --> 0:57:45.480 single person felt it, even the way step person we 0:57:45.640 --> 0:57:48.760 spoke about like missing Harvey's first day of daycare because 0:57:48.800 --> 0:57:50.600 she had a work meeting that morning she just couldn't 0:57:50.600 --> 0:57:52.880 get out of it, and that still sat with her 0:57:52.960 --> 0:57:54.320 that she was like, I still didn't know if I 0:57:54.360 --> 0:57:55.760 made the right choice because what I had to do 0:57:55.880 --> 0:58:00.000 in the moment, and I have so many of those moments. 0:58:00.040 --> 0:58:02.040 It's where I'm like, I feel guilty all the time, 0:58:02.120 --> 0:58:05.160 and the comparison really gets me in. I remember when 0:58:05.160 --> 0:58:08.040 we did first Sees the A recording together. My quote 0:58:08.080 --> 0:58:10.000 that I chose was comparison is a thief of joy 0:58:10.040 --> 0:58:13.200 because I still wrestle with that all the time, and 0:58:13.280 --> 0:58:15.760 I look at people who are with their children way 0:58:15.840 --> 0:58:17.920 more than I am, and you know, some part of 0:58:17.960 --> 0:58:20.800 me yearns for that. But and I do feel guilty 0:58:20.840 --> 0:58:22.720 all the time, Like I feel guilty when I choose 0:58:22.800 --> 0:58:24.160 not to be with him because it feels like a 0:58:24.320 --> 0:58:26.480 choice putting him into daycare or giving him to my 0:58:26.600 --> 0:58:29.520 parents who have him right now, And so that's always 0:58:29.560 --> 0:58:31.800 really hard. But again knowing I'm not alone in that, 0:58:32.040 --> 0:58:35.040 because all these women feel the same way, but they 0:58:35.160 --> 0:58:38.120 know at their core they're building something bigger for their family, 0:58:38.320 --> 0:58:41.080 or they're doing it for a future for their kids. 0:58:41.200 --> 0:58:43.919 Also that they can feel fulfilled and be a great 0:58:44.000 --> 0:58:46.200 mum and a great partner because they've filled their cup 0:58:46.320 --> 0:58:49.800 up through their own career ambitions. So I think definitely 0:58:50.520 --> 0:58:54.400 the guilt helped me so much heal, because that's something 0:58:54.440 --> 0:58:57.200 I still wrestle with all the time, and something I'll 0:58:57.240 --> 0:58:59.800 say that men don't get as well. Like my husband's 0:58:59.800 --> 0:59:02.920 had a number of like family weddings and Bucks parties, 0:59:02.960 --> 0:59:06.040 has traveled for a weekend away for and good on him. 0:59:06.080 --> 0:59:08.680 He deserves that time off too, But I'm always like, oh, 0:59:08.760 --> 0:59:09.520 do you feel guilty? 0:59:10.120 --> 0:59:11.120 And he never does. 0:59:11.200 --> 0:59:13.200 He's never like, oh, yeah, I missed Henry the whole time. 0:59:13.240 --> 0:59:14.720 He's like, no, I know, I've seen him in two 0:59:14.800 --> 0:59:16.520 days time, and I love him and I'm a good dad, 0:59:16.600 --> 0:59:19.560 so I'm cool with it. I know the difference with 0:59:19.680 --> 0:59:22.080 men and women is just like so obvious in these 0:59:22.160 --> 0:59:23.160 parenting moments too. 0:59:24.000 --> 0:59:28.280 It's so funny that you said that because the expert 0:59:28.280 --> 0:59:30.560 I was hosting on the weekend, I was meant to 0:59:30.960 --> 0:59:33.840 do the Brisbane version of that. And I don't know 0:59:33.880 --> 0:59:35.320 if you guys know some of you will know that 0:59:35.440 --> 0:59:37.720 I was meant to be there, and I'm so sorry 0:59:37.800 --> 0:59:40.440 if we were meant to catch up in Brizee, but 0:59:40.520 --> 0:59:42.480 I had to pull out because it was meant to 0:59:42.520 --> 0:59:44.560 be my first mum's weekend away. I'd booked a massage 0:59:44.600 --> 0:59:46.720 and everything, but he just literally stopped taking the bottle 0:59:46.800 --> 0:59:49.840 that week, and like my child has to eat, I 0:59:49.960 --> 0:59:52.960 have the boobs, Like, Unfortunately, I just couldn't make it work, 0:59:53.000 --> 0:59:56.120 and I had so much guilt around that, and then 0:59:56.360 --> 0:59:58.760 I still haven't, like it's not conceivable that I could 0:59:58.800 --> 1:00:02.080 sort of go away without him. But this end of 1:00:02.120 --> 1:00:04.160 this week, Nick's going to Thailand for a week on 1:00:04.480 --> 1:00:06.800 a work trip. But still it's like I can't even 1:00:06.920 --> 1:00:10.840 imagine seven days. But it's funny you also said about 1:00:11.600 --> 1:00:13.440 the guilt thing and how much the book helped me. 1:00:13.960 --> 1:00:17.360 It's interesting that I have had. I've had so much support. 1:00:17.440 --> 1:00:19.400 Nick works from home, so it's a lot easier than 1:00:19.680 --> 1:00:21.280 either of us being in an office all the time. 1:00:21.800 --> 1:00:24.600 But my mechanics of the juggle has been I didn't 1:00:24.640 --> 1:00:26.400 need any help until the sleep thing, and then we 1:00:26.520 --> 1:00:28.080 got a night nanny, which I'll talk all about in 1:00:28.120 --> 1:00:32.360 the sleep episode, which has been game changing. But Teddy's 1:00:32.400 --> 1:00:35.640 like Harry, he only sleeps for twenty seven to thirty 1:00:35.680 --> 1:00:39.720 one minutes max. Like clockwork during the day, so I 1:00:39.880 --> 1:00:43.360 can't do anything really during the day, but I have 1:00:43.480 --> 1:00:45.720 film so it has to be during light hours, so 1:00:45.840 --> 1:00:48.400 I kind of need a day nanny. But the first 1:00:48.440 --> 1:00:50.439 thing I asked you, I've asked quite a few people 1:00:50.440 --> 1:00:53.040 who I know have nanny's. I ask them how they 1:00:53.160 --> 1:00:56.760 got their nanny. But I also asked when, as if 1:00:56.840 --> 1:00:59.360 that matters, as if that's got anything to do with anything. 1:00:59.440 --> 1:01:00.480 I clearly need one. 1:01:00.960 --> 1:01:02.960 Why does it matter that I need to compare how 1:01:03.040 --> 1:01:05.600 many months old Teddy is to how many months old 1:01:05.640 --> 1:01:08.280 someone else was when their children, in a totally different 1:01:08.280 --> 1:01:09.520 situation had a nanny. 1:01:09.600 --> 1:01:11.600 But it's the guilt. I'm like, is it too early, 1:01:11.720 --> 1:01:14.320 is it too late? Who cares? The reality is I 1:01:14.400 --> 1:01:16.720 need one. I need to get one. So it's just funny, 1:01:17.080 --> 1:01:17.280 I know. 1:01:17.400 --> 1:01:18.880 And we're all the same. And that was such a 1:01:18.920 --> 1:01:22.680 beautiful uncovering in the project as well, was like we 1:01:22.880 --> 1:01:25.120 all have the same feelings, and you think it's just you, 1:01:25.640 --> 1:01:27.440 and you think I'm a ship mum, or like my 1:01:27.600 --> 1:01:30.400 baby does this and I'm terrible or whatever, then like, 1:01:30.440 --> 1:01:32.120 hang on, we all feel this way. We're not special, 1:01:32.160 --> 1:01:35.080 We're not unique in it like everybody has trouble with sleep, 1:01:35.240 --> 1:01:37.480 Everyone has trouble with help and joggling it all. And like, 1:01:38.160 --> 1:01:39.720 I think, just that was awesome for me to see 1:01:39.760 --> 1:01:41.480 that from people I really looked up to as well. 1:01:42.160 --> 1:01:44.560 And even I remember Jess hatsis from Frank Body said 1:01:44.600 --> 1:01:47.240 in the book, like going back earlier and not really 1:01:47.320 --> 1:01:50.480 having any time off initially with her baby. She wouldn't 1:01:50.480 --> 1:01:52.560 wish that upon anyone, Like that's a hell that she 1:01:52.560 --> 1:01:54.920 wouldn't wish upon anybody. And I was like, yeah, that 1:01:55.200 --> 1:01:58.000 was really hard, Like I thought that too, and yeah, 1:01:58.040 --> 1:02:00.560 I just think that's so powerful to be like we 1:02:00.680 --> 1:02:03.800 all feel guilty, but we all also have these career 1:02:03.880 --> 1:02:06.280 ambitions and aspirations that we don't have to miss out 1:02:06.360 --> 1:02:08.760 on because we chose to start a family. And you 1:02:08.920 --> 1:02:10.840 just make it work in whatever way you can. And 1:02:11.840 --> 1:02:13.880 again like whatever makes you sleep at night, right, And 1:02:13.960 --> 1:02:17.720 there are some people who have no qualms about their 1:02:17.840 --> 1:02:19.720 level of support, some people who don't want to have 1:02:19.800 --> 1:02:22.320 external support at all. And again, like the women that 1:02:22.360 --> 1:02:24.080 stay home with their babies all the time, I'm like, 1:02:24.160 --> 1:02:26.240 hats off to you, because that is such a hard 1:02:26.360 --> 1:02:28.840 and demanding job. And I have so much respect for 1:02:28.920 --> 1:02:30.919 women who can do that as well, and who choose 1:02:31.000 --> 1:02:34.040 to do that unpaid work, and you deserve to have 1:02:34.120 --> 1:02:36.720 supernuation and all that stuff, and I think that, Yeah, 1:02:36.880 --> 1:02:40.760 it's massive the spectrum there, and we all feel a 1:02:40.920 --> 1:02:44.200 level of guilt and pain and regret and we're all 1:02:44.280 --> 1:02:44.960 just doing our best. 1:02:45.880 --> 1:02:49.240 I actually love that you've mentioned Steph, Phoebe from the memo, 1:02:49.560 --> 1:02:53.040 Jess and Lana. I've cried to all of them in 1:02:53.360 --> 1:02:55.720 the last couple of months at some point, and you 1:02:56.000 --> 1:02:58.440 so this book was like truly cathartic for me. But 1:02:58.880 --> 1:03:01.800 it's funny that the very life line is but would 1:03:01.840 --> 1:03:05.520 you change it? Not one bit? And I love that 1:03:05.640 --> 1:03:08.480 so much because the juggle is hard, it's messy, you 1:03:08.600 --> 1:03:12.320 cry a lot, you feel guilty, you have regrets, but 1:03:12.640 --> 1:03:14.720 like you really wouldn't You wouldn't change it. 1:03:15.280 --> 1:03:19.040 Yeah, one hundred percent. And again would I change some aspects? 1:03:19.080 --> 1:03:21.200 I think I'd like a better birth next time, and 1:03:21.320 --> 1:03:22.560 maybe I don't. 1:03:22.400 --> 1:03:27.400 Know, like a day of maternity leave, like one day totally, and. 1:03:27.480 --> 1:03:30.160 Those kind of things. Again, when people spoke about going 1:03:30.240 --> 1:03:33.200 around too, they could impart wisdom onto themselves and make 1:03:33.240 --> 1:03:36.600 those choices to be Jembler and give themselves more space 1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:40.200 and boundaries. So yes, definitely we wouldn't change it when 1:03:40.280 --> 1:03:42.880 you are challenged and you know, put up to the 1:03:42.960 --> 1:03:46.360 task of raising this little tiny human, especially you know 1:03:46.480 --> 1:03:49.480 at the stage where Henry, he's walking and he can 1:03:49.680 --> 1:03:52.480 kind of talk but not really, so everything is cart's 1:03:52.520 --> 1:03:55.880 all he can really say. It's just it's the cutest 1:03:55.920 --> 1:03:58.120 misial boarding thing in the world. And I feel like 1:03:58.800 --> 1:04:00.240 I was lucky in the sense I had a lot 1:04:00.240 --> 1:04:02.120 of validation from my work, and I was given a 1:04:02.120 --> 1:04:05.360 lot of external validation as well, and I've won awards 1:04:05.400 --> 1:04:07.200 and I've been on four thirty under thirty and all 1:04:07.240 --> 1:04:10.320 those things that I thought madded to me. And now 1:04:10.480 --> 1:04:13.360 contrasting to him walking into the room and saying, ca, 1:04:13.840 --> 1:04:15.600 I'm like, oh my god, there's nothing like it. 1:04:16.520 --> 1:04:17.880 Oh it's so beautiful. 1:04:18.000 --> 1:04:20.600 Well, I feel like no one who has listened to 1:04:20.680 --> 1:04:22.920 this point in the episode will need any convincing of. 1:04:23.040 --> 1:04:23.920 Why the juggle. 1:04:24.040 --> 1:04:29.120 Your Beautiful book is such a valuable and validating and 1:04:29.320 --> 1:04:31.400 cathartic guide. 1:04:31.280 --> 1:04:32.520 To the juggle. 1:04:32.680 --> 1:04:37.280 Literally, it's out like as we type, as we type, 1:04:37.320 --> 1:04:40.120 oh my god, see mam brain, it's out as we speak, 1:04:40.760 --> 1:04:43.960 and as you guys, listen, I think it's on presale, 1:04:44.000 --> 1:04:45.560 but within a couple of days of this coming out, 1:04:45.600 --> 1:04:46.960 it will be officially on sale. 1:04:47.080 --> 1:04:49.960 But how are you feeling? Where can we find it? 1:04:50.120 --> 1:04:50.920 Where can we get it? 1:04:51.440 --> 1:04:54.360 Yes, I'm so excited, So I think it will be 1:04:54.440 --> 1:04:56.200 out in the world by the time this is released, 1:04:56.280 --> 1:04:58.120 maybe a couple of days afterwards, so it'll be out 1:04:58.160 --> 1:05:00.360 in limited bookstores, or you can also find it on 1:05:00.400 --> 1:05:03.120 the Brio Books website or in my Instagram link in 1:05:03.200 --> 1:05:06.320 bio if you want to check me out at Genevieve Underscore. 1:05:06.040 --> 1:05:09.080 Day and it will be in my Instagram bio as well. Everybody, 1:05:09.160 --> 1:05:11.560 as well as the show notes for this episode, Jen, 1:05:11.720 --> 1:05:14.680 thank you so much for everything you do and have 1:05:14.880 --> 1:05:17.240 done on a personal level for me, but also now 1:05:17.440 --> 1:05:22.200 for the broader motherhood population on Planet Parent, where we're 1:05:22.240 --> 1:05:26.400 all just like totally unhinged and sleep deprived but fulfilled 1:05:26.480 --> 1:05:29.280 and happy and wondrous all at the same time. 1:05:29.600 --> 1:05:31.240 No, thank you so much saying you're the best. 1:05:31.480 --> 1:05:33.600 Well, that was meant to be a shorter form episode 1:05:33.640 --> 1:05:35.919 on The Juggle, and it ended up being a longer form, 1:05:36.360 --> 1:05:38.960 juicy chat about pretty much everything. But that kind of 1:05:39.120 --> 1:05:42.120 is the juggle, I guess, and I found it incredibly cathartic. 1:05:42.280 --> 1:05:44.840 And I don't think you can ever hear enough that 1:05:44.880 --> 1:05:47.920 you're not alone in balancing all the different things that 1:05:47.920 --> 1:05:50.560 we're trying to balance, no matter what structure your career 1:05:50.640 --> 1:05:52.560 and your life and how many kids you have and whatever. 1:05:52.680 --> 1:05:54.560 Like everyone's going through it, And I hope that this 1:05:54.800 --> 1:05:58.480 was reassuring and a really nice addition to the CZA 1:05:58.600 --> 1:06:01.360 lineup for you guys. Really enjoying this segment so far, 1:06:01.600 --> 1:06:04.240 and also feel like, hopefully it will be a great 1:06:04.280 --> 1:06:07.640 addition to an extension of all the copying and pasting 1:06:07.960 --> 1:06:10.360 I've been doing on DMS trying to answer you eloquently. 1:06:11.640 --> 1:06:12.800 Please let me know what you think. 1:06:13.000 --> 1:06:15.640 Please share the episode, of course, go to the show 1:06:15.680 --> 1:06:18.120 notes and get the link to Gen's book, and we'll 1:06:18.160 --> 1:06:21.200 be back with more shortly. In the meantime, I hope 1:06:21.200 --> 1:06:22.440 you're seizing your ya