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Speaker 1: That's something I definitely explore in the book is that

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Speaker 1: like scarcity mindset as women, that we're not going to

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Speaker 1: get these opportunities again, that we've fought tooth and nail

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Speaker 1: to have a seat at the table and if we

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Speaker 1: step away for any reason, but especially to have children,

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Speaker 1: but those opportunities will dry up.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Seize the Yay Podcast.

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Speaker 3: Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too

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Speaker 3: rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then

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Speaker 3: we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize

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Speaker 3: there's more than one way. So this is a platform to.

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Speaker 2: Hear and explore the stories of those who found lives

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Speaker 2: they adore, the good.

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Speaker 3: Bad and ugly.

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Speaker 2: The best and worst day will bear all the facets

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Speaker 2: of Seizing your Yeay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful

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Speaker 2: of Sarah, a lawyer turned funentrepreneur who swapped the suits

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Speaker 2: and heels to co found matcha Maiden and matcha Milk.

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Speaker 2: Bark Czya is a series of conversations on finding a

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Speaker 2: life you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy

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Speaker 2: and fulfillment along the way. Hallo, Beautiful neighborhood and Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the first episode of our new parenthood segment, Seize

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Speaker 2: the Baby. I know I can't help myself if you

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Speaker 2: guys all know me by now, but it just makes

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Speaker 2: me smile every time I say it or read it,

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Speaker 2: which is very on brands. I'm going to stick with it.

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Speaker 2: I just felt I'd been copying and pasting some ted

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Speaker 2: talk length answers on socials about various aspects of adjusting

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Speaker 2: to mum life, and I felt that the fuller answers

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Speaker 2: that I've been giving people needed somewhere to.

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Speaker 4: Live, so it was easy to refer to.

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Speaker 2: But I also wanted to signal more clearly to those

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Speaker 2: of you who aren't just interested in this parenthood content,

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Speaker 2: to show you what's heavily parent related and then what isn't.

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Speaker 2: The most hotly asked questions so far have been around sleep, breastfeeding,

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Speaker 2: and the juggle as a working mum, but I'm going

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Speaker 2: to start with the latter because it's particularly timely for

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Speaker 2: two reasons. Firstly, I personally felt my management of the

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Speaker 2: juggle has taken a very steep dive over the past

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Speaker 2: couple of weeks. You might have been able to tell

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Speaker 2: from my socials, so it's very close to home right now,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I love to get a bit vulnerable

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Speaker 2: on here, particularly in real time when it's still happening,

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Speaker 2: and you're getting kind of how I really feel, rather

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Speaker 2: than hearing about it when it's all resolved. Secondly, one

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Speaker 2: of the mum role models that I turned to often,

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Speaker 2: and incidentally also my manager, Genevieve Day, who is in

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Speaker 2: herself a huge part of how I maintain any kind

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Speaker 2: of juggle, just released her brand new book called The Juggle,

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Speaker 2: featuring interviews with some of our very own incredible past

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Speaker 2: guests on the topic. So a conversation on the Juggle

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Speaker 2: just seemed meant to be. I've covered parts of how

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Speaker 2: I've been balancing work and mum life in various episodes

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Speaker 2: so far, and I actually recall my answer in an

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Speaker 2: earlier episode being that I haven't really felt an identity

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Speaker 2: split or pull between my mum or work identity yet

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Speaker 2: jokes on me how quickly our babies grow, but also

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Speaker 2: how quickly you can go from relatively copy and high

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Speaker 2: on indoor for and hormones too suddenly not so much.

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Speaker 2: And I've recently felt much more of a split between

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Speaker 2: wanting more time for my career but also wanting to

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Speaker 2: be with Teddy twenty four seven at the same time.

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Speaker 2: It's like that meme where you kind of want to

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Speaker 2: be a city goal but living in the country but

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Speaker 2: working full time, but also meditating all day and doing nothing,

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Speaker 2: and like, that's me. I'm so confused, and that's the

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Speaker 2: juggle that's feeling that split. It definitely is happening, and

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Speaker 2: the way I resolve that tension changes every day. And

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Speaker 2: I'm so sorry to those who only listened to the

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Speaker 2: earlier episode what I said that I didn't have that struggle,

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Speaker 2: because I absolutely do. One thing I've really had to

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Speaker 2: grapple with is letting go of perfectionism at work now

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Speaker 2: that there's much less time to play with. So sadly

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Speaker 2: you don't get the nice new intro that I was

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Speaker 2: hoping to organize to accompany the new segment. I was

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Speaker 2: going to do our CZ eight. People call it the

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Speaker 2: CZA rap, which is so funny to me. It's not

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Speaker 2: a rap, but I was going to do a new

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Speaker 2: one for this new segment. But you'd be waiting all

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Speaker 2: year for the segment otherwise, so you're just going to

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Speaker 2: have to stick with the original. I also feel like

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Speaker 2: I got so distracted by Jen's wisdom. In this one,

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Speaker 2: we kind of venture into sleep and feeding anyway, and

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Speaker 2: then I'm not sure that I clearly laid out my

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Speaker 2: specific version of the juggle to answer your questions about

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Speaker 2: like the structure of the day and Nanny's and all that.

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Speaker 2: It literally makes me want to come out in hives

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Speaker 2: not answering questions because I hate not doing things properly.

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Speaker 2: But again, that's the juggle of just doing my best

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Speaker 2: and hoping that that represents in itself exactly what this

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Speaker 2: episode is all about. I'm just going to put it

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Speaker 2: out anyway. I hope you enjoy it, and please let

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Speaker 2: me know your thoughts on sees, the baby and what

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Speaker 2: you want next. I'm pretty sure the next episode will

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Speaker 2: be on sleep, because there have just been so many

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Speaker 2: questions about that and it's very current for us. But

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Speaker 2: of course I will also include links to Gen's amazing

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Speaker 2: book in the show notes. If you don't already know

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Speaker 2: by the end of this episode, you'll well and truly

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Speaker 2: know why you need a copy. And it's such an

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Speaker 2: incredible guide on everything related to the Juggle. Jen my love,

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Speaker 2: welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me back on what

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Speaker 1: an honor.

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Speaker 2: It's an honor for me. We've been through so many

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Speaker 2: chapters of our life together. But I mean, for the

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Speaker 2: show's purposes, it's been four years.

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Speaker 4: So if you.

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Speaker 2: Guys haven't listened to that episode, I will include the

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Speaker 2: link in the show notes so you can get the

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Speaker 2: background of how Jen started the Incredible day management and

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Speaker 2: next of kin management, how we became friends. I think

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Speaker 2: you've managed me for like ten years now or something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going up to a decade, which is insane,

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Speaker 1: and I love it because you're like a bit of

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Speaker 1: a post a child. I'm like, this is what we do.

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Speaker 1: Look at Sarah Avidson.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm also like the irony of the fact that

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Speaker 2: we're talking about the juggle. Whenever anyone asks me how

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Speaker 2: I juggle everything, I'm always like, Genevieve Day, incredible manager,

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Speaker 2: my dear friend and now mum role model. And I

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Speaker 2: think that's the beautiful thing about having a podcast. It's

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Speaker 2: been like, oh my gosh, nearly six years and you

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Speaker 2: get to trace through people's different chapters, but also your

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Speaker 2: relationship with those people and how it kind of evolves

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Speaker 2: over time.

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Speaker 1: It's so true because you're right. It's almost like as

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Speaker 1: a founder and a business owner, you have the one

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Speaker 1: business story that you tell a lot, right, and often

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Speaker 1: like how did you get started? And for me personally,

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Speaker 1: I have the same feel that I give, but I'm like,

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Speaker 1: so nine years ago there was a change in the

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Speaker 1: media landscape and I was one of the first in

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Speaker 1: Australia started a talent management agency Digital First Talent And

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Speaker 1: then I'm kind of like, what about that evolution? And

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Speaker 1: so often those stories don't get told of like what

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Speaker 1: happens next?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly what we're here to do today, to

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Speaker 2: catch everyone up on everything we've done since the last episode,

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Speaker 2: but particularly becoming mothers together and bonding over that elusive

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Speaker 2: search for balance and that ongoing juggle. And for so

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Speaker 2: many reasons, you are the perfect guest for this particular

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Speaker 2: topic in this new segment because since we last caught

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Speaker 2: up September twenty twenty two, you got married September twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty three, you had your beautiful boy, Henry, and I'll

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Speaker 2: folog you six months later. September twenty twenty four has

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Speaker 2: just passed, marking one year of you navigating the juggle,

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Speaker 2: and you celebrated by birthing your third baby, your incredible

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Speaker 2: new book that just launches this week now actually named

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Speaker 2: The Juggle.

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Speaker 4: How are you feeling?

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I love things happening in September. It

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Speaker 1: seems to be my month. It's been amazing, And it's

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Speaker 1: so funny because everyone spoke about like that one year

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Speaker 1: milestone with Henry of like things will calm down then,

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Speaker 1: or you know, you'll reflect back and you'll miss those moments.

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Speaker 1: And for me, I'm like, I'm enjoying it the most

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Speaker 1: right now with that one year mark, and then with

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Speaker 1: the book. It was so special to kind of launch

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Speaker 1: that in that same stage of life of being like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, my rhythm now with parenting and motherhood and work,

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Speaker 1: and then I'm launching this book talking about all those things,

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Speaker 1: and so kind of a poetic timing ought to happen

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Speaker 1: in that September chunk.

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Speaker 2: Sel efficient and neat as you always are, and I've

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Speaker 2: just loved it. We're, you know, six months behind you

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Speaker 2: in motherhood. You've always been such a big career role

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Speaker 2: model for me in building business and being such an

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Speaker 2: a type personality. But this next evolution of us has

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Speaker 2: been me copying and pasting everything you do as a

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Speaker 2: mother and watching you juggle motherhood with business. I can't

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Speaker 2: say how many times I've called you a voice noted,

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Speaker 2: asking questions about Nanni's and burnout and working in the

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Speaker 2: same business as your husband and all of those.

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Speaker 4: Kinds of things.

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Speaker 2: But now it's not just me who could access all

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Speaker 2: your fells of wisdom, it's everyone because you've collated it

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Speaker 2: all into this brilliant book, which is just so exciting

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Speaker 2: because I think the biggest thing in all of this,

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Speaker 2: the biggest thing I've learned so far in motherhood, is

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Speaker 2: just how important it is not to feel alone and

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Speaker 2: realize that you aren't alone.

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Speaker 4: We're all going.

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Speaker 1: Through it one hundred percent. And you're very sweet to

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Speaker 1: say that. I think I realized during this whole motherhood

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Speaker 1: journey that I'm someone that always wears a heart on

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Speaker 1: my sleeve. I have no qualm saying I'm fucking this up,

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Speaker 1: or like I'm finding this really hard, and I realized

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Speaker 1: it in motherhood. A lot of people don't feel comfortable

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Speaker 1: sharing that or saying that I was so happy to

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Speaker 1: be open at the time and say his sleep is terrible,

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Speaker 1: or like I'm finding it really challenging. To relate to

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Speaker 1: this beautiful blog that can't do anything yet. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that was really great for them for my

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Speaker 1: friends going through it or about to go through it,

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Speaker 1: like Okay, cool, you're finding this hard to thank goodness

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Speaker 1: you're saying that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I really felt confident to be open about it

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Speaker 1: through the journey of the book itself because I had

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Speaker 1: a lot of these conversations with these incredible women featured,

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Speaker 1: who are the likes of Steph clais Smith and Frank

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Speaker 1: Body's Jess Hatsis and the memos, Pomie Sibbons and Rachel

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Speaker 1: Corbett from the Project and these incredible women that I

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Speaker 1: know professionally and work with them and love them. They

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Speaker 1: were all so candid with me about their own struggles

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Speaker 1: and their own journey too. And that's kind of really

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Speaker 1: where the book came from, is I was having these

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Speaker 1: copies with them being like, how the hell are you

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Speaker 1: doing it? I'm pregnant, I'm terrified of having issues between

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Speaker 1: Korea and motherhood, and am I going to give up

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Speaker 1: everything I've worked so hard to build? And they were

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Speaker 1: so wonderful and sharing their story with me that I'm like,

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Speaker 1: this has to live somewhere for other women to be

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Speaker 1: exactly like you say, not feel so alone themselves.

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Speaker 2: And it's funny that you mentioned poetic timing because we're

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Speaker 2: sitting down to record this at a very different chapter

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Speaker 2: for the podcast where I am only recording fortnightly because

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Speaker 2: that's all the juggle allows. And the new segment is

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Speaker 2: partly to answer the fact that I've had more dms

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Speaker 2: than ever about juggling and work and leaving Teddy and pumping.

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Speaker 2: I actually feel less equipped than I ever have to

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Speaker 2: answer them because the last couple of months have probably

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Speaker 2: been the hardest I've had since he's been born. In

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Speaker 2: terms of the juggle. You and I have both found

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Speaker 2: different parts of our journey quite difficult, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we'll go into a little bit more about my juggle later,

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Speaker 2: but for you, I know you found that early newborn

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Speaker 2: phase extremely challenging and difficult to sort of say that,

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Speaker 2: whereas I was one of those people who probably made

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Speaker 2: you feel bad when you were in that phase because

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Speaker 2: I was sort of like, oh, it's so much easier

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Speaker 2: that I thought, Oh, it's just so magical, which is

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Speaker 2: genuinely how I felt. It was really magical. I think

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Speaker 2: I just had really sort of realistic expectations being one

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Speaker 2: of the last of my friendship group to have a baby,

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Speaker 2: So I sort of found the juggle a lot easier

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Speaker 2: at the beginning because the people in my workplace were you.

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Speaker 2: You were so good at navigating it all. I had

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Speaker 2: so much advice and support. But it's, you know, the

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Speaker 2: past couple of weeks that I've had a massive breakdown.

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Speaker 2: So it's just so funny that this is when this

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Speaker 2: particular episode is all coming together. And I'm so excited

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Speaker 2: to share your book because I read the early manuscript

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Speaker 2: when I was going through all this Oh my god,

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Speaker 2: what have I done? All that fear that we're used

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Speaker 2: to dealing with in our careers but not in motherhood before.

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Speaker 1: And it feels so personal. When someone else is saying like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm choosing to do this with my baby, or I

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Speaker 1: found this really easy, it feels like they're saying personally, well,

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Speaker 1: you're a bad mum, or that you're a terrible person,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't mean that at all. And I think

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Speaker 1: a large part of it for me too, using the

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Speaker 1: book as a resource, Like I went to my mother's

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Speaker 1: group and the women there were so gorgeous and so

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Speaker 1: friendly and warm, but they were all in their own

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Speaker 1: journeys and they most of them had like twelve months

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Speaker 1: off work, which wasn't my narrative, Like I had to

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Speaker 1: go back super early, and I didn't really feel seen

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Speaker 1: in those circles, and so I felt alone, like am

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Speaker 1: I doing the right thing? But then I go back

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Speaker 1: to the book and the conversations people are saying, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I went back at three months, or I went back earlier,

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Speaker 1: or I was emailing from the delivery room, and you're like, okay, cool,

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Speaker 1: they're eating steptrum there, like it's okay to fall somewhere

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Speaker 1: in that spectrum and we're all worried about doing the

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Speaker 1: wrong thing right. But then everyone has different like ebbs

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Speaker 1: and flows of their rhythm with it, of what they're

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Speaker 1: going to thrive out, what they're going to challenge, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's crazy, and it's so funny that ours definitely fell

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Speaker 1: on different sides of that pendulum.

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Speaker 2: Suite, and I think it is so it's I've mentioned

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Speaker 2: a couple of times before that I actually was even

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Speaker 2: hesitant to start a sort of motherhood, maternity, pregnancy, postpartum

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Speaker 2: segment of the podcast because it is such a sensitive area.

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Speaker 2: It's like we're all okay for the most part at letting,

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Speaker 2: you know, choose your own adventure, choose your own pathway.

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Speaker 2: We're not as judgmental about other people's choices in their

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Speaker 2: food or their exercise. We're sort of happy to accept,

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Speaker 2: you know, everyone does their own thing, and what suits

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Speaker 2: you won't suit someone else. But for some reason, I

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Speaker 2: think because parenthood is so personal, it's like the one

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Speaker 2: area where there's the unsolicited advice, how offended we all get,

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Speaker 2: Like we take everything personally even when it's not meant

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Speaker 2: that way, but then sometimes it is meant that way,

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Speaker 2: Like it's.

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Speaker 4: Just so sensitive.

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Speaker 2: So I almost didn't want to do this because I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to me sharing my anecdotal journey to feel

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Speaker 2: like judgment towards anyone else. But at the same time,

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Speaker 2: I think having the conversations is better than not having them.

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Speaker 2: So really, I want to talk to you about going

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Speaker 2: back to that very early decision to write this book.

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Speaker 2: This was mid pregnancy for you, and the juggle had

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Speaker 2: already started because the last job that we did together

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Speaker 2: in your pregnancy was you hosting a TV series at

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Speaker 2: thirty nine weeks. Yeah, why did I do so, and

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Speaker 2: then you continued to write an entire book during your

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Speaker 2: like early sort of first months of motherhood. So talk

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Speaker 2: to us about, yeah, the beginning of I'm going to

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Speaker 2: write a book in this time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, I'm insane. Let's just put that out better.

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Speaker 1: Set the tone that clearly I put so much pressure

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Speaker 1: on myself to do things, and I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of it was a pressure I felt to prove to

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Speaker 1: myself and to everyone that like, this isn't going to

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Speaker 1: stop me, Like I'm not going to be one of

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Speaker 1: those women who has a baby, and that's a full identity,

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Speaker 1: and that's no shade to women who do have that either,

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Speaker 1: but it was just I felt that I had to

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Speaker 1: prove to everyone that I can still do it all,

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Speaker 1: which is complete bs as well. And I was even

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Speaker 1: feeling that way in pregnancy because a lot of part

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Speaker 1: of my job is to be front facing and then

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Speaker 1: also to sign new talent and then go out and

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Speaker 1: get new clients for us, and I thought, I have

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Speaker 1: to show them that I'm still devoted even though I'm pregnant.

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Speaker 1: And it was a bit of a barrier during my

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Speaker 1: pregnancy because I was a physical reminder that I was

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Speaker 1: about to step away, right. I would rock up to

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Speaker 1: these meetings there's coffee catchups with brands, a massive belly,

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Speaker 1: and they'd be like why are you here? Literally that's

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Speaker 1: what was like vibat and what someone said. They were like,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing here? And I was like, I'm

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Speaker 1: only thirty six weeks. This is fine. With the TV

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Speaker 1: show as well, like when they asked me to host it,

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Speaker 1: I had a genuine fear they would never ask me

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Speaker 1: again if I said no. And that's something that I

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Speaker 1: definitely explore in the book, is that like scarcity mindset

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Speaker 1: as women that we're not going to get these opportunities again,

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Speaker 1: that we've fought tooth and nail to have a seat

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Speaker 1: at the table and if we step away for any reason,

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Speaker 1: but especially to have children. But those opportunities were dry up,

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Speaker 1: and so I wasn't willing to say no. I filmed

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Speaker 1: that and I was literally nine months pregnant, and I

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Speaker 1: look ridiculous. Everyone was very kind on the day, but

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Speaker 1: like looking back, I'm like, oh, that's that's a very

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Speaker 1: pregnant person on the camera there.

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Speaker 2: You looked glorious, but you definitely looked like uncomfortable, like

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Speaker 2: physically uncomfortable. You were looking sort of like now, Like

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Speaker 2: at the time, I didn't know what thirty nine weeks

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Speaker 2: pregnant felt like, and I actually didn't even make it

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Speaker 2: to thirty nine weeks, which just shows how far along.

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Speaker 4: You actually were.

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Speaker 2: But like I did a similar equivalent in that I

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Speaker 2: worked up to thirty seven and a half and then

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Speaker 2: gave birth at thirty eight yeah, and had the exact

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Speaker 2: same sort of feeling of, well, I have to be

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Speaker 2: shown that this isn't getting in my way because I

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Speaker 2: want people to still keep booking me. So from the

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Speaker 2: minute I was visible pregnant, I was like, I almost

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Speaker 2: need to slow down less than when I wasn't visibly pregnant,

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Speaker 2: because now I have to be out there. And I

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Speaker 2: think one of the common themes that came out through

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Speaker 2: all your beautiful guests in the book was that when

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Speaker 2: you're a business owner, the one thing that's different from

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Speaker 2: maternity leave. And I want to talk about like the

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Speaker 2: mechanics of the juggle and how people actually structure their

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Speaker 2: leave and how much they take and when they do

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Speaker 2: nannies and stuff, because that's also sort of really important,

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Speaker 2: But the common theme is that when you have maternity

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Speaker 2: locked in. There's at least an element of security that

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Speaker 2: you can face motherhood as motherhood, and then your job

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Speaker 2: is kind of there at the end you come back

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Speaker 2: to it, and yes there's identity splits and whatever, but

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Speaker 2: when you work for yourself, it is such a momentum game.

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Speaker 2: You sort of think if I get off this like

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Speaker 2: roller coaster, then I'm never going to get back on

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Speaker 2: and everyone's going to hate me, and even now you.

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Speaker 2: I literally email guys just to be fully transparent. I

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Speaker 2: email Jen once or twice a week saying I physically

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Speaker 2: don't feel well enough to do this job or go

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Speaker 2: to this event because you know, Teddy hasn't been sleeping,

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Speaker 2: but I think I should because what if everyone thinks

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Speaker 2: that I can't do this as a mum. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I kind of almost delegate to you the like pros

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Speaker 2: cons list because I feel like I'm irrational and I'm like, Jed,

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Speaker 2: do you think I'm going to drop off the face

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Speaker 2: of the earth if I don't say yes to this thing?

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Speaker 4: Or is it going to be okay? And I'm still

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Speaker 4: going through that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's such a valid thought process. And one

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Speaker 1: thing that came up is that almost every single woman

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Speaker 1: I spoke to for the book felt that way of like,

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Speaker 1: I've worked my whole life, a whole career to build

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Speaker 1: this momentum, and I'm terrifory of stepping away from it.

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Speaker 1: Then the beautiful thing was on the other side they

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Speaker 1: realized that actually that doesn't always happen, and that well,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can't do everything the way you used to.

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Speaker 1: And for me, it also you know, accumulated in a

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Speaker 1: sense that I couldn't work as many hours like I

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Speaker 1: used to just look at possibilities as just a little

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Speaker 1: bit of hard work. So I was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I can do xyz. I'll have takes is ten more

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Speaker 1: hours of me this week, but I don't have those

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Speaker 1: hours anymore. And then I realized that, like, I didn't

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Speaker 1: actually miss out on anything by having a baby and

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Speaker 1: stepping away, but the pressure is still there and proving

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Speaker 1: myself and I almost now have the flip side where

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Speaker 1: I'm so hesitant to post too much baby content online

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Speaker 1: or even on the days that I might finish at

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Speaker 1: three pm and pick my sign up from daycare early

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Speaker 1: and go to the park, I'm like, oh shit, if

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Speaker 1: I post this online and people thinking I'm not committed

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Speaker 1: to my job or my business. So again it's the

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Speaker 1: optics almost in the reverse. It's like I don't want

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Speaker 1: to seem like I'm not committed to my work enough.

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Speaker 1: But then if I'm shown to be out at night

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Speaker 1: at work events and going to things and traveling to

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Speaker 1: Sydney for jobs I sometimes have to do, then everyone's like, well,

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Speaker 1: why don't you with your baby? So I feel like

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Speaker 1: that never goes away. But I definitely learned that like

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Speaker 1: that pressure and that scarcity mindset does ease up because

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Speaker 1: there's those clear examples that like, actually, you're going to

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Speaker 1: be okay. And I wish I could really time travel

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Speaker 1: and tell myself that I know you'd be similar. But

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Speaker 1: I've done things where, you know, I did a Channel

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Speaker 1: seven news thing about social media, and I had my

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Speaker 1: mum and Henry in the next room, and the journalists

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Speaker 1: were so understanding that like if he cried out and

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Speaker 1: made noyiage, like it's okay, We'll just recorded again, like

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Speaker 1: we know you have like a I think he was

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Speaker 1: seven weeks old at that stage or something. And we

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Speaker 1: actually signed some incredible new talent to the agency who

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Speaker 1: were mums themselves, and they loved the fact that I

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Speaker 1: understood them, and so it almost became like a superpower

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Speaker 1: that I could tap into that extra empathy and understanding.

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Speaker 1: So while I was so afraid of missing out of things,

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Speaker 1: it then actually became so much more gained on the

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Speaker 1: other side of that. Plus you get a beautiful baby.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I also love that you word it in

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Speaker 2: the book, as we focus a lot on losing our

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Speaker 2: identity and accepting Yes, you definitely lose the person you

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Speaker 2: were before, of course you do, but the focus should

435
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 2: be more so on the fact that you also gain

436
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 2: a new identity, and I think we lament one without

437
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 2: but the flip side of the coin, which is you

438
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 2: gain this whole other person that's you can't even explain

439
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,000
Speaker 2: it to your pre motherhood's self. I kind of describe

440
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 2: it as such a different identity that it's almost like

441
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 2: a whole different planet. Like everyone who's had kids crosses

442
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 2: over to planet parent and lives there and understands. They

443
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 2: just get it, what it feels like, what it looks like.

444
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 2: And I actually felt the need to issue a formal

445
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 2: apology to all of those friends because when I wasn't

446
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 2: living on that planet, i'd interacted with them just without

447
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:27,879
Speaker 2: having any idea what it took them to leave the

448
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 2: house or how I could be useful or understand their

449
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,639
Speaker 2: time constraints, And the word busy means something different, like

450
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 2: I just really felt so bad once I finally crossed over.

451
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 2: And I think of myself as quite an empathetic, intellectual person,

452
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 2: but even what I imagined it would be like, it's

453
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 2: still nowhere close to it actually feels like. Another thing

454
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 2: that also came out across every no matter what the

455
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 2: juggle looked like for every single woman, including yourself in

456
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 2: the book, is that no one had traditional maternity leave.

457
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 2: Everyone went back conventionally extremely early, and almost everyone, particularly

458
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 2: if they've had second children, regret that a little bit

459
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 2: and have a little bit of guilt. Maybe wouldn't change it,

460
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 2: but just wish that they had not felt so much pressure.

461
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 2: So I want to talk to you about the fact

462
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 2: that you didn't necessarily love the newborn phase, the guilt

463
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 2: to even say that, the feelings of failure that that

464
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,400
Speaker 2: brought up. You write a lot about that in part

465
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 2: two of the book. Yeah, because I think that's a

466
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 2: really big thing that motherhood mothers in any not just

467
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 2: in business mothers, no matter what their juggle looks like

468
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 2: they feel this like incredible guilty if their journey doesn't

469
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 2: look how they think it should totally, and.

470
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 1: I think that was a big part of that newborn

471
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 1: stage being quite heavy for me. And I wasn't diagnosed

472
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 1: with personal depression, but it was definitely like on that

473
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 1: journey to get there, it was like some quite dark

474
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: times for me personally, and I think a large part

475
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 1: of that was the fact that I couldn't breastfeed, and

476
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 1: that seems so silly just to think of that like

477
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 1: tiny factor that tipped me over the edge. But I also,

478
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm such a prepared individual. I've gone

479
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 1: out and pre bought all the nursing bras, the breast pump,

480
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 1: the silverrette nipple covers, like I had all the creams.

481
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, my nipples are going to crack,

482
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: so I have to buy this amazing ointment and like

483
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 1: I had it all ready to go because I just

484
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 1: thought this will be a given right. And then my

485
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: labor was a little bit prickly. I lost over a

486
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: leader of blood. I also have PCOS, so my hormones

487
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 1: are already a bit funky and a factor of those

488
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we'll never know the reason why, but that's

489
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: what the doctors say potentially could be part of it.

490
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 1: I just had no supply. He also didn't latch. He

491
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 1: had no interest in me, probably because I had no

492
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: milk for him. Yeah, I'm like fair enough, little kid,

493
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 1: Sorry about that. But I was in the hospital and

494
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: the lactation consultants they're just they were awful to me,

495
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: if I'm really honest about it, Like they were shocking.

496
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: They were like, you want to give your baby the

497
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: best start in life, so don't you want to try

498
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 1: as hard as you can. And I'm there, like I've

499
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 1: got strangers milking my breast and I was put on

500
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: medication the time I helped my supply and I was

501
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: pumping six times a day for like thirty minutes each

502
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 1: and then the luctation consultant told me because I wasn't

503
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: doing it eight times a day, I was trying to

504
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 1: cut corners, I know. And that's the thing. It's like,

505
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: there was just so awful, awful advice to just like

506
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 1: push through. And it was literally like trying to get

507
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: blood from a stone, and I just would get like

508
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 1: ten meals each time. And it's so funny because even

509
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: now I see, like, I remember you posted on the

510
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,479
Speaker 1: weekend that you were pumping at the fit Her at

511
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: your like speaking gig, and I saw like the amount

512
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: that you had expressed then, and even that still I'm like,

513
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I just I've never seen that much

514
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,959
Speaker 1: milk in my life. And even though again not personal,

515
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: nothing to do with me, but I still look at

516
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: that and I'm like, oh, I just just wasn't my journey.

517
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: So that was really hard in those early weeks. I

518
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: tried for six weeks to pump, but I could give

519
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 1: him like one bottle a day would be my breast milk,

520
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: put those tiny ten meals each couple of hours over

521
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: like six punths a day and giving one bottles worth

522
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 1: just sixty meals at that time, and then the rest

523
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: was formula. It was so disheartening because again, go to

524
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: mother's group and everyone's feeding their babies and I've got to, like,

525
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: you know, shamefully go to my bag and get my

526
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: formula tin out and like I'll just feed my baby.

527
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: Just give me a second, and I'm like mixing it together.

528
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: And so that was really really tough because again the

529
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 1: expectation of motherhood is like it's a natural thing, and

530
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: I felt like I wasn't good at labor. I felt

531
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: like I wasn't good at breastfeeding. It's hard because I

532
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: also had these lactation consultants say to me, well, if

533
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: you're going to feed in with a bottle, make sure

534
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: that you do all the feed so you still have

535
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: a connection with him because you're not breastfeeding. And so

536
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,719
Speaker 1: I had it in my head that like, Okay, well

537
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: I have to have a connection. I'm not going to

538
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: have a connection because I'm not feeding him naturally in

539
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: inverted commas. So I think that was a really big

540
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: contributing factor of me finding those early weeks really hard.

541
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: I also because I lost so much blood. I was

542
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: just so drained. It had no energy. I was depleted

543
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 1: straight away. And then because through labor there was a

544
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: lot of pushing and he was stuck, I had a

545
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: lot of pelvic floor pain, and so even like changing

546
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 1: his nappy, I found it too painful to stand up

547
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 1: for that period of time. So it was a lot

548
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: of factors. It made that not a like joyous time

549
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: for me. I couldn't really go for a walk that far.

550
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: And then he also hated the prem He hated the

551
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: car seat, and so it was just stressful, like I

552
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: was stuck at home with this baby that I didn't

553
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: really understand, and I felt a bit like I couldn't

554
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: be everything this baby wanted me to be, Like I

555
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 1: didn't feel like a natural mother in that sense. It's

556
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 1: funny when he hit like I think it was four

557
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: or five months, and they start giving you a lot

558
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: more of facial expressions and reactions. And even when he

559
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: started crawling and he would like crawl up to me,

560
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 1: I felt like, well, for the first time, this baby's

561
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: actually choosing me, because in every other point in time,

562
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: I wasn't the one keeping him alive. I wasn't the

563
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: one that he needed. And of course there are many

564
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: benefits and I'm like the queen of pro formula like

565
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 1: formulas the bloody best. And it meant that my husband

566
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: could feed and my parents would look after him, and

567
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: it meant I could go into the office other people

568
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: could keep him alive. But yeah, those moments where he

569
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: could look at me and smile or crawl up to

570
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: me and choose his mum to be the one that

571
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 1: gets in those are really the breakthrough moments for me

572
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: of like, okay, yeah, yeah, this is cool. Like I'm

573
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: into this now because I feel like it's a give

574
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: take relationship and not just you know, this little gorgeous

575
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: blog where I couldn't really like crack the code.

576
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 3: For yeah, oh my gosh.

577
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 2: And it just like, I don't think anyone's ever felt inadequacy,

578
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 2: Like we've all had imposter syndrome, we've all had self doubt.

579
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 2: You've never felt inadequacy until you can't do something for

580
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 2: your child because there is this expectation that you have

581
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 2: this innate knowledge, and you know sometimes they're like, but

582
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: you know, above all, it's just mother's instinct, like listen

583
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 2: to your gut, and I'm like, my gut is telling

584
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: me I just had a bloody sea section. I need

585
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 2: a shit.

586
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 3: I can't.

587
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: It's not telling me anything sensible, Like I have no

588
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 2: mother's instinct right now. It's not always there, and then

589
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 2: you feel guilty and like I, on the flip side,

590
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,479
Speaker 2: didn't have any problem breastfeeding, which surprised me enormously because

591
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 2: I don't have boobs. I just I had this expectation

592
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 2: that it wouldn't happen, and the fact that it did.

593
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 2: I have become incredibly sensitive to posting the milky pump.

594
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 2: In fact, as soon as I posted that photo, I

595
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 2: don't know if you saw, the immediate next slide was guys.

596
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 2: So many people have messaged me saying about the numbers

597
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 2: of meals. I usually blur them out because I don't

598
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 2: want to create any feelings you know, of inadequacy, which

599
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: I don't mean to. I'm just literally post, you know,

600
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 2: sharing my life. But as an advocate for formula feeding,

601
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 2: I was adopted, so I was an exclusively formula fed baby.

602
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 2: I don't even know what quality a formula there was

603
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 2: in Korea in the eighties, yeah, but probably not amazing.

604
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: And I think I turned out fine. So I was

605
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: always ready to formula feed. And it's interesting that as

606
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 2: soon as they knew my supply did come in the

607
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: language of oh, well, you know, this is amazing because

608
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: now you won't have to use formula kind of things,

609
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: like we didn't want to mention the F word, but

610
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm I'm sorry, like I did actually

611
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 2: because I had a C section. It did take a

612
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: few days and we gave Teddy formula for the first

613
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 2: three until my milk did come in, and I was

614
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: fine with that, but it was almost like they weren't

615
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 2: fine with it, Like they were like, don't worry, it

616
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 2: won't be for long, and I'm like, I actually don't

617
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 2: care if it's for long. Like my mum was in

618
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 2: the room and she adopted both children who were also

619
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 2: in the room, who and Nick's mum was adopted and

620
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 2: he was in the room, and we were like, well,

621
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: we were all formula fed, So like, yes, this is

622
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: almost offensive the way that you're talking about this.

623
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: And it is offensive because I'm sure you had the

624
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: same thing where they make you sign a form in

625
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: the hospital that's like I consent to giving my baby

626
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: formula and I acknowledge just not as good as breast milk,

627
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: and I'm signing this form and I'm like, guys, is

628
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: actually quite deplorable because the options are he starves. Yeah,

629
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: and even he had to have emergency surgery at six

630
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: weeks old because he had pylorixgnosis. And we were too

631
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: a public hospital because it's where emergency is all connected

632
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: to it, and they were amazing, but they would not

633
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: give me like a meal from the hospital because I

634
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: wasn't breastfeeding, and that was company policy, was only breastfeeding

635
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,719
Speaker 1: mothers get the meals in hospital, even though I couldn't

636
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: leave my baby. I'm there to support his surgery. I

637
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: was there for five days, and it was funny. The

638
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: nurses would give me like a nod in a wink,

639
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: being like, so you're breastfeeding. Yeah, but they would like

640
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: sneak me spaghetti bolonnais because they're like, well, this is bullshit.

641
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: I can't believe that we can't feed you as a

642
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: mother of a six week old baby, and you can't

643
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: leave this hospital, and so yeah, those the kind of

644
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: reminders happen all the time, and it's just insane, you know.

645
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: I find it hard. Even with a lot of the

646
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: baby food books that you read when you start solids,

647
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: they have all these pages and pages devoted to how

648
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: amazing breast milk is and you know, mix that with

649
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: your wheat bigs and it's the best start for your

650
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: baby's life. And I feel like no one was really

651
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: talking about, well, what if you physically can't do it?

652
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: And that's why I really wanted to put it in

653
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: the book and talk about it, because I didn't know

654
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: anyone that had a journey like mine, and I felt

655
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: so alone in those moments and like such a failure,

656
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: and it does not matter. He's so healthy, like he's thriving,

657
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: he's ninety eighth percentile weight and hide and walking very early.

658
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: Might I add very.

659
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 4: Advanced obviously so advanced.

660
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: But that's the thing. It's like, it doesn't matter. And

661
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: so it's like, the more conversations we can have around it,

662
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: I think is super powerful.

663
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I have had a lot of questions and

664
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 2: I will do in this segment an episode on for

665
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: those who can breastfeed. There are a lot of questions

666
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 2: around pumping schedules and stuff, and I do want to

667
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: answer them, but I will be at pains to say,

668
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 2: like it is, I'm trying to do the most neutral

669
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: delivery ever because it just happens.

670
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 4: That I could breastfeed. So I am.

671
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: But I think the fact that it's framed like a choice, yes,

672
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 2: for a lot of people, it's like and I think

673
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 2: it's amazing. There are lots of people I know who

674
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 2: choose they can breastfeed, but they choose to either start

675
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,239
Speaker 2: with formula or migrate when they need to go back

676
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 2: to work or whatever it is. But it is not

677
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 2: a choice for a lot of people. So to frame

678
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 2: it that way, like breast is, Like, I'm sure, yes,

679
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,959
Speaker 2: breast is best in terms of like if you're choosing

680
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: in a totally neutral landscape, but how shit is it

681
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 2: going to make the people feel who can't choose that?

682
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: Yeah? Literally, And you're so right because I had a

683
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: girlfriend of mine who could breastfeed but hated it, and

684
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: she felt so much guilt using formula because she's like,

685
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: oh I can, so I should be breastfeeding him. But

686
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: it's also like what about your mental health and if

687
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: you're going back to work and all these different things,

688
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: And feeding comes up in the book a lot because

689
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: a lot of women did transition to formula earlier because

690
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: it wasn't sustainable pumping at work or pumping during meetings,

691
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: all that pressure to keep the supply going when they're

692
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: trying to work a nine to five job, and there's

693
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: so many complexities to it. So yeah, and I think

694
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: at the same time, like, even though I'm very sensitive

695
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: about it, I always try to understand that, like, no

696
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: one is posting stuff out there to make me feel

697
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: bad if it are sharing their own personal experience as well. Yeah,

698
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: so we all should give each other a literally grace.

699
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like I personally really love breastfeeding. It's been

700
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 2: a really beautiful part of motherhood for me. I think

701
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 2: because I didn't expect it. I think because Mum obviously

702
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 2: it wasn't even on the cards. We've kind of been

703
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: on this journey of learning about it together and that

704
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 2: like it's so it's just so different for everyone. But

705
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: I also feel like, because it is so much complexity

706
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 2: around the issue that I almost don't want to say

707
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 2: that either because I don't want to make anyone feel bad.

708
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 2: But it has become a lot more difficult now that

709
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: I am doing longer, like I am able to leave

710
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: him for a little bit longer, as you mentioned, like

711
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: I was doing my first sort of eight hour days.

712
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: The longest I'd been away from Teddy before was three hours,

713
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: so we only had to do one bottle, so I

714
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 2: only had to pump once a day. But the milk

715
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: that I had in the fridge was so much because

716
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 2: I had had to plan like fourteen days out to

717
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,959
Speaker 2: start to up my supply, knowing that i'd have two

718
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 2: days in a row, and that milk goes off if

719
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 2: you can't use it after said in two hours, Like

720
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: there's the logistics, and this comes back to the juggle.

721
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 2: The logistics, no matter what, of being away from your child,

722
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: especially when you go back early because women in business

723
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: don't really take maternity leave is an enormous physical load

724
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 2: and an enormous mental load. So I want to move

725
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 2: on now to like the mechanics of the juggle and

726
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 2: the fact that most of the women in the book, yourself,

727
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 2: myself took sort of, you know, a couple of weeks

728
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: to a couple of days of maternity leave, yeah, and

729
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: then had to work out the juggle of nanny's, daycare,

730
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: pumping formula, relying on partners. There's single mothers in there

731
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: as well who don't have partners to rely on. How

732
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: you and pat split the load, how did you work

733
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 2: out your mechanics? Like what does that look like right now?

734
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 2: And then take us through how you kind of got there,

735
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: like when you first when he first went to daycare,

736
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: and how you decided that and getting a nanny and

737
00:33:58,720 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 2: all that stuff.

738
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Total, And I found it so pervy after these

739
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: questions to people, because I'm like so nosy and I'm like,

740
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: how are you doing it? And I think it's really

741
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, I find it really empowering hearing someone

742
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: who I think has an amazing aspirational lifestyle. Hearing them say,

743
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I don't do it all or I

744
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: have heaps of help, I'm like, okay, good, We're all

745
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: just human beings writing our best. How amazing. So that

746
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: was a really big part of the interview question. I

747
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 1: wanted just them to be like, feel comfortable enough to say, yeah,

748
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: I have a nanny or in some cases, I have

749
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: three nannies and that's how I do it all. Because

750
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: it's not sustainable trying to be everything all the time.

751
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: You'll burn out and be depleted, and then you'll be

752
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: a terrible mum and partner because you have nothing left

753
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: to give. So I kind of went into it with

754
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: those conversations that I already had had about help and

755
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: how important it is and how varied it is. I

756
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: think again, with the formula, it meant that Pat and

757
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: I could parent fifty to fifty, which was super empowering

758
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 1: for him, meaning that I could go to the office

759
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: or go to a work event, or I had to

760
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: go to Sydney quite a few times when he was

761
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: like three or four months old. Knew he'd be okay.

762
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: So that was really great to kind of have that

763
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 1: parenting structure, and we split it up in a sense

764
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: where like I would always do the overnight fees and

765
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: pot would do first thing in the morning, and then

766
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: we'd try and share it during the day as well,

767
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: and knowing that we both worked in the business, we

768
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: could kind of know what's coming up when there are

769
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: busy things and issues to be sold, and so that

770
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: like transparency of what we're working on really helped us

771
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: divide and conquer as well. And so we did that

772
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: in a shared load for the first couple of months

773
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 1: while I still was like coming back part time ish

774
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: or like just working when I could basically, and then

775
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: I actually found it really helpful going back to the

776
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: office for my mental health. And I loved having that

777
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: structure returning to work and knowing I had these set days,

778
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: not being Henry's mum or not being Genevieve day singing

779
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: incy wincy Spider. They knew I could go back me

780
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: day management. I loved being able to like dress up

781
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: in a cute outfit and go to the office. And

782
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: so that structure, which was probably January this year, so

783
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: he would have been like three and a half months old,

784
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 1: we had my parents do one day a week. Pat's

785
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: mum did one day a week. Pat and I would

786
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: kind of share the other three days fifty to fifty,

787
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: and then when he was four months old, we ended

788
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: up actually getting a nanny for the Wednesday, so Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,

789
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: we had support for those big like eight hour days

790
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: in the office or we were away from him for

791
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: a long period of time, and then we kind of

792
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: tried to share the Mondays and Fridays with him and

793
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: both working, and that just became not sustainable because obviously

794
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: I got busier, Pat got busier, Henry slept less, and

795
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: he was getting older and needed more attention, and he

796
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: is super active, so he was not going to like

797
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: he also doesn't really sleep at all, so he'd have

798
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: like a forty five minute now, and so if you

799
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: don't take him out to the park, like he's going

800
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: to combust or something. It got to a stage where

801
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: I was like, this is not sustainable, and we were

802
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: kind of bickering with each other of like, well, I

803
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 1: need to jump on this phone call, and I've got

804
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: this conference call or I've got this meeting, and so

805
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: it just became we needed to put him into daycare.

806
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: Basically around he would have just been like a eleven

807
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: and a half months, almost one. So it's been in

808
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: daycare for like three and a half weeks now and

809
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: we've already got gastro and conjunctividis hot. Yeah, love it,

810
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 1: And it's a big adjustment. Because we had the nanny,

811
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: she would also help us by doing the washing and

812
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: preparing some of the dinners and that kind of thing.

813
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 1: But instead I'm back to meal prepping for him on

814
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: a Sunday for like three hours. But that's kind of

815
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: the way that we did all the help and the juggle,

816
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: and we're so lucky to have family support and we

817
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: definitely lean on them a lot, especially yeah, if I

818
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: have to go into state for something, or we've gotten

819
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: early morning work call with America's time zone or whatever

820
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: it might be. So that's kind of how we've juggled it,

821
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: and it definitely has not been perfect, and I think

822
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: that we really stucked it up a little bit. We

823
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: were trying to have work days but have a baby

824
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: there at the same time, because just for us and

825
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: the way that he slept and lived and played is

826
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 1: like you can't do two things at once with him,

827
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: and I see people online I have the baby in

828
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: a really cool playpan, and they're emailing and I'm like,

829
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: that is just not my real Like, he'll never sleep

830
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: for more than an hour, so it's like I don't

831
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: have big, solid work chunks to get done while he's here.

832
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're the same.

833
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 2: You can't do two things at once with Teddy at all,

834
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 2: except that he sleeps for half an hour, not an

835
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: hour during the day, which is Yeah, it's a juggle, but.

836
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: Yes, that was kind of how we navigated it. We

837
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: did parents at a nanny and then now daycare, and

838
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: we feel so much lighter, not trying to cram everything

839
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 1: into one day.

840
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 2: I feel like watching your evolution of the juggle and

841
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 2: then also reading the book and you're covering other people

842
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 2: navigating the juggle who are like a little bit further

843
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 2: ahead of you. It's gone from like this intense guilt

844
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 2: about guilt on both sides. If I'm not in my business,

845
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 2: like you said, I don't look like I'm working hard enough.

846
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: But if I'm not at home enough, then is he

847
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 2: going to be developing fast enough and meeting his milestones

848
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 2: and whatever? And like is it too early to get

849
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 2: a nanny or is it, and that's like it's every

850
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 2: mum goes through that no matter when, and what juggle,

851
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 2: like what mechanics your juggle looks like, but that it's

852
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 2: been this evolution towards like realizing that the decisions you've

853
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 2: made along the way make you all happier, and that

854
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: like who cares what it looks like compared to anyone

855
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: else's Once you make the decisions that work in your

856
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: life for your family, like everything just works better. But

857
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 2: it takes such a mental hurdle to get there. And

858
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 2: it seems like everyone in the book had this kind

859
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 2: of aha moment of like stop fighting what you need

860
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 2: in your life to make it look like someone else's.

861
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: And that's such a good point. And even like we

862
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: had to kind of sit down together and look at

863
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: a budget to say, okay, well, if I go back

864
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: to work an additional day, we can then afford to

865
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: get a cleaner once a fortnight so I'm not having

866
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 1: to look after him and work and scrubb a shower

867
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. Or in the beginning, when

868
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 1: he first out of solids, we use that La Puree

869
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 1: brand because I was like, I do don't have time

870
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: to make him organic bone broth and then pure it,

871
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: which takes a hour. I'm not doing that, but I

872
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: still want to be a good mum and still want

873
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: to give that to him, So I'm just going to

874
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: outsource that and buy it. And like it is expensive,

875
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: and you know, those are elements that do cost money,

876
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: but we had to crunch it down to be like, well,

877
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: let's just cut back on other areas to afford that

878
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: because it gives us the time back in our lives

879
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: where we can then spend our time with our son.

880
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: And I won't say that I didn't feel judged that

881
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: whole time for having a nanny, and like four months

882
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: is quite young to be getting external help. And you know,

883
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: he went into daycare at one also because I think

884
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: he needed more social interaction and he was getting a

885
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: little bit brady and like not sharing well. And I'm

886
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: like times I've seen some other kids, but it's so hard,

887
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: but you're right, everyone's on their own journey and if

888
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 1: you just accept what works for you and your family.

889
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And You've been such an amazing not just role

890
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 2: model but also mentor for me in this area because

891
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 2: so many times I've called you to say, like, at

892
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: what age did do this, and who did you go

893
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 2: to and blah blah blah, but you've sort of been like, well,

894
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 2: this is what I did, but also very much like

895
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 2: it depends on what you need right now, like it

896
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 2: doesn't have to look the same, and there's no sort

897
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 2: of too early or too late. And I think for

898
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,760
Speaker 2: any mum's listening, our conversation is obviously very weighted towards

899
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 2: women who have gone back to work very early, not

900
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: taking traditional maternity leave. Our guilty is all around how

901
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 2: early we do things or how much we sort of

902
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 2: end up needing help earlier. But I think at the

903
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 2: other end of the spectrum, there are also women who

904
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 2: take twelve months maternity leave and they feel like everyone's saying, oh,

905
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 2: look how much time you have, Oh, you'll get so

906
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: much done. That people think they're lazy because they're at

907
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 2: home for twelve months with it. It's like you are

908
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 2: raising a child, Like I'm sure their loss of identity

909
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 2: is the other way around, like losing their working identity

910
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: completely and feeling guilt around that. What I find really

911
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: interesting now is that your struggle and having like kind

912
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 2: of gone through that with you was at the beginning

913
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 2: feeling guilt about not loving the newborn phase.

914
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:42,240
Speaker 4: When everyone talks.

915
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: About the newborn bubble and how beautiful that is. I

916
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 2: have found it the opposite in that. And you know

917
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 2: this intimately because we're going through it right now. And

918
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 2: to answer everyone who's been submitting questions about sort of

919
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 2: the juggle for me, I found the juggle relatively easy.

920
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 2: I mean still hard in the text of parenthood is

921
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 2: hard and your life changes dramatically. But I found maybe

922
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 2: because I had really low expectations. Nick and I also

923
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 2: work really flexibly. Teddy was a really good sleeper at

924
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 2: the start. We have so much family support in the

925
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 2: immediate five k's of our house, so we haven't had

926
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: an annial daycare yet, and it didn't really feel like

927
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: a juggle, you know. I went back to work like

928
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 2: that first photo shoot was at five weeks, but I had,

929
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,919
Speaker 2: like Nick, my mum and my auntie's there you there

930
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 2: who's also a mum and who was going through it

931
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 2: at the same time. It was hard, but it wasn't overwhelming.

932
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,720
Speaker 2: And then I went back to work at six weeks.

933
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 2: Our work is so flexible. Everyone like the TV show

934
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 2: came to film my house. I could, you know, do

935
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 2: a couple of hours of contact work sort of a week,

936
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 2: but then do the rest from home. I actually felt

937
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 2: really like, I'm okay at this for the whole first bit,

938
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 2: and I was in that newborn bubble where I didn't

939
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 2: have sort of guilt or regret or anything, which surprised me.

940
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 2: But what a lot of people who have that experience

941
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 2: have is that then they get to sort of four

942
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 2: to six.

943
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 4: Months and then it's hard.

944
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 2: And it's funny that the first time I've ever wished,

945
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 2: Like my dialogue to people, and probably even in the podcast,

946
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: so I hope I am correcting that for people who

947
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: have been listening. My dialogue at the start was I

948
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: really thought that, you know, this would be the first

949
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: time I miss corporate, and that I you know, I've

950
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 2: never regretted leaving law, but that this might be the

951
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 2: first time that I do because paid maternity leave, but

952
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 2: I didn't, I don't regret that, blah blah blah. A

953
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 2: couple of months on, I'm like, I almost wish that

954
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,439
Speaker 2: I could take maternity leave now. It's like you could

955
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 2: take you could not take it for six months and

956
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: then take it now, because now has been when I

957
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 2: found it the hardest and then I feel guilty of

958
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 2: in saying that because I'm like, he's such a good baby.

959
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 2: I love my child. I don't hate motherhood. I love

960
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 2: being among more than anything. But like you said, I

961
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 2: have not been diagnosed with postpartum anxiety or depression, but

962
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 2: I would definitely say maybe two three weeks ago. I

963
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 2: mean I was pretty much telling you. I was like, Jen,

964
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: I can't, I can't life, and it was another topic

965
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 2: that's so heated and heavy and loaded.

966
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 4: It was all sleep for me. Again.

967
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 2: You were such a good comfort for because Henry also

968
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 2: wasn't sleeping that Teddy. We took him overseas at that time.

969
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 2: He was an eight hour stretch minimum, easy sleeper until

970
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 2: we went to Italy. Italy was incredible. We'll do an

971
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 2: episode on traveling with a baby. It is coming, I promised.

972
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 2: Then we came back, he had jet lag and that

973
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 2: led into this four month regression that lasted. I don't

974
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 2: want to scare anyone off, but some of them last

975
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 2: couple of weeks and they resolve. Teddy's kind of went

976
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 2: for eight weeks plus, and that was like I was

977
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: waking up every one and a half hours all day

978
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 2: every day for like sixty something days, and then my

979
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 2: sort of manifestation of what we spoke about earlier of

980
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 2: like I'm still present and available and don't think that

981
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 2: you can't book me was just keep going, like just

982
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 2: suck it up and don't knowledge that anything's like hard,

983
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 2: and just keep selling the story that let you're fine,

984
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 2: until then suddenly I was like I reached this critical

985
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 2: point in around seven weeks and I was like.

986
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 3: I'm not fine.

987
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 4: This is not sustainable.

988
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is people kept telling me in war, they

989
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,919
Speaker 2: use this as torture, like sleep deprivation is a form

990
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 2: of torture.

991
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 4: And it just crumbled.

992
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 2: And I was like, you and I are terrible at

993
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 2: saying that we're having a hard time at something. But

994
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 2: I was like I actually need to vocalize this and

995
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 2: like go and stay at a postpartum hotel. Yeah, because

996
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,760
Speaker 2: like I can't do this anymore. I need a circuit breaker.

997
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: No one ever tells you that you're normal to feel

998
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: that way that you're like, this is a form of

999
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: torture and it is so hard. But again you're like,

1000
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: why is it just my baby? Everyone else's baby sleeping,

1001
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 1: but my baby won't say through the night. And Henry

1002
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: didn't say through the night till he was eleven months old,

1003
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,399
Speaker 1: so I had over a year of no speak because

1004
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: when you're that pregnant, you don't sleep either. And people

1005
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: would be like, oh, no, I'm in a regression. I

1006
00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 1: was like, my whole life is a regression.

1007
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 2: We live aggression. And then yeah, it's like the same

1008
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 2: as for you with breastfeeding. I would feel that mothers

1009
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 2: who were posting someone put something up about how they

1010
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 2: thought it didn't exist, like and that, you know, there's

1011
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 2: a lot of literature out there that it doesn't exist,

1012
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 2: which each to their own, like, I'm sure there are

1013
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 2: lots of babies who have shown zero manifestations of any interruption,

1014
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 2: but in my world, it very much exists. It was

1015
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 2: very much like bang on timing. He was two weeks early,

1016
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 2: so it was four and a half months on the dot. Yeah,

1017
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 2: I'll do a whole separate sleep episode on sort of

1018
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: how we've navigated out of that. But that's when the

1019
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 2: juggle became a juggle for me, Like suddenly I was

1020
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 2: I think one of the things I loved so much

1021
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 2: about your book is that everyone said the narrative that

1022
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 2: you can.

1023
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 4: Do it all is bullshit.

1024
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 2: Except you can do everything you want to do, just

1025
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 2: not all at the same time. You just have to

1026
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: juggle it in the way that works for you. You

1027
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 2: just can't do it all at once. And I kept

1028
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: trying to do socializing, seeing my friend and not really exercising,

1029
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 2: but at least like a little bit of outdoors walking, sleeping,

1030
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 2: being a mom and being a present mum, waking up

1031
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 2: to him all the time, feeding it back to sleep

1032
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 2: six times a night, and then going to work a

1033
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,919
Speaker 2: full day, all day every day, and something had to give.

1034
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's insane when you list it

1035
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 1: like that. No person can pull that off. And I

1036
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: also felt that like I kind of enjoyed going to work,

1037
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 1: going to the office in those days, and I'd been

1038
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: up four or five times in the nine but I

1039
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: could like cosplay someone who was normal and had heaps

1040
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: of sleep, and the lovely girls in the office who

1041
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: were like twenty five, like, oh my god, I'm exhausted.

1042
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, are you tired because he's late

1043
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,359
Speaker 1: watching Netflix. Wow. Sleep for us was a huge thing,

1044
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: But I feel like, again, I just always spoke about it.

1045
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 1: I was like, he's a terrible sleeper. He always hated

1046
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 1: day n apps. He would never sleep in the prem

1047
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: never sleep in the cast. We couldn't go anywhere. And

1048
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 1: then we did sleep training at four months, and even

1049
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: the sleep training consultant told me, oh wow, I love

1050
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: a challenge, and he's a challenge. Three to five days

1051
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: was the sleep training like life cycle, and I called

1052
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 1: her in day five and I was like, come, well,

1053
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: it's still not working, and she goes, Okay, I think

1054
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: it's actually going to be twenty one days. And again

1055
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 1: everyone has their methods. Is just what we decided to

1056
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: use and what worked for us. But responsive settling. So

1057
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: we left him in the room to cry for a

1058
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: bit and we'd time it and then go back in

1059
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: after a certain amount of time. But he's the most

1060
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 1: stubborn determined kid, which I love that about him, Like

1061
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,919
Speaker 1: he's so independent, he is so strong willed. He would

1062
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: just stand up at the cot and scream and like

1063
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: shake the cot in like stare at the baking auditor,

1064
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: like straight into the camera, and we were like, no,

1065
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: we have to like keep going, and then we'd get

1066
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: in the good rhythm and then he would go backwards

1067
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: and we'd sleep around him again, and so yeah, it

1068
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,399
Speaker 1: took eleven months and a sleep through the night, which

1069
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: at the moment he's been a dream and it's been

1070
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: like twelve hours of sleep seven till seven beautiful day

1071
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: n apps, forty minute daynaps. But he goes straight to

1072
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: sleep now. But there were periods of time there where

1073
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 1: I'd be like settling him for an hour with like

1074
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: an audiobook in my AirPods, just like patting his bum,

1075
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: leave the room, go back in, leave, go back in,

1076
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: and then having to try and fit in work around

1077
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 1: that is truly insane. And yeah, those I think the

1078
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: sleep deprivation also meant that I wasn't coping at the time,

1079
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: especially in those early days. I feel like so many

1080
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: people do these types of projects when they're out of

1081
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: the woods, right and they say, oh, they get so

1082
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 1: much better, And even me now with him being one,

1083
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's okay, Like he sleeps perfectly, it's fine,

1084
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: and you almost forget that pain. But what I loved

1085
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 1: about writing the book and doing it in like real

1086
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: time for me was that I would write down my

1087
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 1: thoughts at four weeks postparton, and then add a bit

1088
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 1: more at six weeks, and then edit the book at

1089
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 1: five months and do my final read over at six

1090
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: months old and beyond, and I look back and I think,

1091
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this girl sounds like unwell in the head.

1092
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,720
Speaker 1: But also there isn't there aren't enough resources. I believe

1093
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 1: in people like in the thick of it saying like,

1094
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 1: this is so hard and I feel this way totally.

1095
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 2: And I loved that so much about it because I

1096
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 2: could see the evolution of you keeping parts in that

1097
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: were no longer how you felt, but reflecting that they

1098
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 2: were once how you felt. And same with the way

1099
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 2: that all the interviews were written, was that it was

1100
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 2: also like, particularly people who have multiple children, sort of

1101
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 2: the approach they had at the first child versus what

1102
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 2: they do now and the things they not regret but

1103
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 2: like would tell themselves earlier, which is the reader. That's

1104
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 2: the person that's earlier them if they could go back

1105
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 2: and have the chance. And I also want to dedicate

1106
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 2: an entire episode to sort of again, I kind of

1107
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 2: wish I'd recorded this when we were more in the

1108
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 2: thick of the sleep thing, because to give you hope,

1109
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 2: it has resolved a lot for us. So anyone listening,

1110
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 2: if you are in the thick of it, you know

1111
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 2: that we haven't been, and I promise you that it

1112
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 2: can get better, but I do sort of wish i'd

1113
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 2: similar to when we had our pregnancy loss, I sort

1114
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 2: of shared before we had our happy ending, and that

1115
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 2: was possibly more powerful. So yeah, but I documented a

1116
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 2: lot of it, and I will include that in the

1117
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 2: sleep episode which will come immediately after, because I think

1118
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: it's probably the most pressing. But one of the things

1119
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:11,919
Speaker 2: you and I spoke about a lot during that time.

1120
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 2: I was literally guys calling Jen all the time, being like,

1121
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 2: tell me about day nannie, tell me about night nannies,

1122
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 2: tell me about sleep school, Like tell me about all

1123
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:20,720
Speaker 2: the options on the spectrum?

1124
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 4: When do you do them? What are they called?

1125
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 2: Because you don't know that world and if you've never

1126
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 2: had to look it up before. And the funny thing

1127
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 2: that we always mentioned is that you had posted a

1128
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,720
Speaker 2: photo of you lying on like not even a mattress,

1129
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 2: but like the play mat on the floor of Henry's

1130
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 2: bed all night, and no.

1131
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 4: One the next day.

1132
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: Not only do they not know, but their lives are

1133
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 2: so busy, not even out of sort of self centeredness,

1134
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: but no one cares that you didn't sleep the night

1135
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 2: before because they all have their own deliverables in their life,

1136
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 2: so you're just like walking around like a dead person.

1137
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 2: But the rest of the world doesn't care. So they

1138
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 2: need you to function the same as if you have slept.

1139
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 2: They need you to just keep going. And it's crazy

1140
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 2: that there's all these like deceased mothers walking around and

1141
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 2: fathers as well, but the rest of the world just

1142
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 2: keeps going, and you're like, how are you guys all

1143
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,839
Speaker 2: just like up and about doing your thing. So it's

1144
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 2: I think the sleep part is a crazy interrelated part

1145
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 2: of the coping and juggling totally.

1146
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: And I think as well, it's like there is a

1147
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: portion to it where candidness and openness is so valuable

1148
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: to almost say, especially when you're leading a team where

1149
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: I am a business of being, like I can't operate

1150
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: at the functionality level that you deserve right now. And

1151
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: I think again, looking back, like I committed to some

1152
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: things work really really early on, Like I committed to

1153
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 1: a performance review fore of my team members and I

1154
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: was three weeks postpartum. We put that in before I

1155
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: had the baby, and I had no idea what that

1156
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: meant being three weeks postpartum. When I booked in I

1157
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: was like, of course, I'm amazing, I'll push through. Of

1158
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:55,879
Speaker 1: course I'll be there. I'll pop into the office. He'll

1159
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: be three weeks old. And so I came in and

1160
00:52:58,120 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: I think I brought in with me and how was

1161
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: And I did the meeting and I think I was

1162
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: still wearing a nappy myself by that stage even and

1163
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,720
Speaker 1: it was not a good performance review because I couldn't

1164
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: have prepared properly. I'd had like two hours chunks of

1165
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: sleep and row and you know, I wish I just

1166
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: looked back and said to the people around me, like,

1167
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: I can't give you the level that you deserve based

1168
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 1: on what I'm operating with right now. Let's reset for

1169
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: this date and then I can, you know, be the

1170
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 1: better leader for you, or be the better partner for you,

1171
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,240
Speaker 1: or all those kind of things. And so there is power,

1172
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 1: I think, and admitting what you're coping with. But you're

1173
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 1: so right that on a day to day level, people

1174
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 1: don't care. And the people on the other end of

1175
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: your email, they don't care that I spent the night

1176
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: on the floor of his room, every three hours, you know,

1177
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:44,439
Speaker 1: patting his bum to stop screaming, like wading all mums again,

1178
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: all parents understand that and have empathy and like a

1179
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: knowing glance across the room of like, I know what

1180
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: you've been through, but yeah, I think there's a mixture

1181
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: there of like pushing on because the world doesn't stop,

1182
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: but also acknowledging the people around you that like, this

1183
00:53:57,840 --> 00:53:59,879
Speaker 1: is what I can realistically give you right now.

1184
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you created such a supportive environment where I

1185
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 2: really did feel like instead of like I battled on

1186
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,879
Speaker 2: with it kind of being like, oh, I'm tired, but hah,

1187
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,959
Speaker 2: this regression, but ha, I'm actually fine to then having

1188
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 2: to say, like, I really think I need to not

1189
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 2: have any expectations on me for the next sort of

1190
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 2: ten days so I can catch up to like rationality,

1191
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 2: because whatever I submit right now is not going to

1192
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 2: be my best work. So it's actually in everyone's best

1193
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 2: interest that we all just kind of like get on

1194
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 2: the page. And that's so especially for an A type

1195
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 2: personality who's really like likes to be good at stuff,

1196
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 2: and we're like twins in that regard. It's the hardest

1197
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 2: thing to ever say, is I am not doing well, Like.

1198
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 4: It's the worst.

1199
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 2: It's like not even in my vernacular. But once you

1200
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 2: do it like you suddenly feel so much better, and

1201
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 2: that sort of not even humility, but just like ability

1202
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 2: to accept that there are times where you can't do

1203
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 2: it all is a reflection I notice in every single

1204
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 2: woman's story in the book. And my biggest takeaway for

1205
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 2: you because it was your own story interweaved with and

1206
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 2: I love that you sort of do all the interviews

1207
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 2: and then you wrap it up with what have we

1208
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 2: learnt from these and then break it into really clear

1209
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:12,720
Speaker 2: themes what is your biggest learning, maybe your biggest surprise

1210
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 2: from interviewing all these incredible women, And then, if it's different,

1211
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 2: the main thing that you want people to take away

1212
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 2: from the book except that they obviously have to read

1213
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 2: it as well. But if you wanted one thing to

1214
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,320
Speaker 2: come from this episode and the book, what would it be?

1215
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I think I really loved that structure

1216
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: as well. I wanted to hold this space for each

1217
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 1: of the women to tell their stories and to your

1218
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: point before about the different stages of their life. We

1219
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 1: had someone like Jesse Stevens, who was a week away

1220
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: from giving birth to her first child when she spoke

1221
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 1: to me, versus like celebrity stylist Lina Wilkinson, who her

1222
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 1: daughters are like almost tween ages. So it's you know,

1223
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: a full spectrum there of experience, which I found really

1224
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 1: valuable as well. And I think what I took away

1225
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 1: the most was having boundaries, which I know is such

1226
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: like an over there pized word, and part of me

1227
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: hates and people are like, I need to have boundaries.

1228
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: But I was always so committed to those around me

1229
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 1: and my job and the people relying on me through

1230
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 1: my agency, and I think that applies to anyone with

1231
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: a career. You'd have you know, direct reports and a

1232
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 1: boss and everything. I would just be like they would

1233
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: say jump, I'd say how high because it was only

1234
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 1: me that that was affecting. It was just my time, right.

1235
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 1: But then with a baby around, every time that that

1236
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: boundary was pushed, I was missing out in moments with

1237
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: my son, and more and more of those stories that

1238
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 1: I was told said the same thing, where they were like,

1239
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 1: you have to put those boundaries in place because clients

1240
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: will push you and work will push you, and you

1241
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 1: realize it's actually not worth the sacrifice when it does

1242
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: come at the cost of your family. And you know,

1243
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 1: I was pushed in my boundaries hours after giving birth,

1244
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: I had to jump into a contract resolution from hospital

1245
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 1: and then you know, like I said, I lost it

1246
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: almost a leader and a half of blood, and I was,

1247
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 1: you know, emailing the next day about something because a

1248
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 1: brand was pulling a sick, bigger contract deal and unfortunately

1249
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: only I had the context helped resolve that. So those

1250
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 1: are boundaries that were pushed. And then again coming into

1251
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,720
Speaker 1: the office for those meetings so early on post pardon,

1252
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: and then it just happens all the time right where

1253
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: they think, okay, well it's not your official in the

1254
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 1: office day, but can you join this meeting It's really important,

1255
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, that's my day with my son,

1256
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 1: but okay, I'll be there. And that was something that

1257
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 1: came up again and again in the book with these

1258
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: women being like you just have to hold that time

1259
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 1: firmly for your family so you can be present. Then

1260
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: then you can be present at work as opposed to

1261
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: like a mismatch where you're not doing either party justice.

1262
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: And then just all the feelings and conversations around guilt,

1263
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: like I still feel so much mother's guilt, and every

1264
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 1: single person felt it, even the way step person we

1265
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 1: spoke about like missing Harvey's first day of daycare because

1266
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: she had a work meeting that morning she just couldn't

1267
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: get out of it, and that still sat with her

1268
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: that she was like, I still didn't know if I

1269
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: made the right choice because what I had to do

1270
00:57:55,880 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 1: in the moment, and I have so many of those moments.

1271
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 1: It's where I'm like, I feel guilty all the time,

1272
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: and the comparison really gets me in. I remember when

1273
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: we did first Sees the A recording together. My quote

1274
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: that I chose was comparison is a thief of joy

1275
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 1: because I still wrestle with that all the time, and

1276
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: I look at people who are with their children way

1277
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 1: more than I am, and you know, some part of

1278
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: me yearns for that. But and I do feel guilty

1279
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 1: all the time, Like I feel guilty when I choose

1280
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: not to be with him because it feels like a

1281
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: choice putting him into daycare or giving him to my

1282
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: parents who have him right now, And so that's always

1283
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: really hard. But again knowing I'm not alone in that,

1284
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 1: because all these women feel the same way, but they

1285
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 1: know at their core they're building something bigger for their family,

1286
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: or they're doing it for a future for their kids.

1287
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,919
Speaker 1: Also that they can feel fulfilled and be a great

1288
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 1: mum and a great partner because they've filled their cup

1289
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: up through their own career ambitions. So I think definitely

1290
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: the guilt helped me so much heal, because that's something

1291
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: I still wrestle with all the time, and something I'll

1292
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: say that men don't get as well. Like my husband's

1293
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 1: had a number of like family weddings and Bucks parties,

1294
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 1: has traveled for a weekend away for and good on him.

1295
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 1: He deserves that time off too, But I'm always like, oh,

1296
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: do you feel guilty?

1297
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 4: And he never does.

1298
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 1: He's never like, oh, yeah, I missed Henry the whole time.

1299
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: He's like, no, I know, I've seen him in two

1300
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 1: days time, and I love him and I'm a good dad,

1301
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: so I'm cool with it. I know the difference with

1302
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: men and women is just like so obvious in these

1303
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: parenting moments too.

1304
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 2: It's so funny that you said that because the expert

1305
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 2: I was hosting on the weekend, I was meant to

1306
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 2: do the Brisbane version of that. And I don't know

1307
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 2: if you guys know some of you will know that

1308
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 2: I was meant to be there, and I'm so sorry

1309
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 2: if we were meant to catch up in Brizee, but

1310
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 2: I had to pull out because it was meant to

1311
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 2: be my first mum's weekend away. I'd booked a massage

1312
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 2: and everything, but he just literally stopped taking the bottle

1313
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 2: that week, and like my child has to eat, I

1314
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 2: have the boobs, Like, Unfortunately, I just couldn't make it work,

1315
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 2: and I had so much guilt around that, and then

1316
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 2: I still haven't, like it's not conceivable that I could

1317
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 2: sort of go away without him. But this end of

1318
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 2: this week, Nick's going to Thailand for a week on

1319
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 2: a work trip. But still it's like I can't even

1320
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 2: imagine seven days. But it's funny you also said about

1321
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 2: the guilt thing and how much the book helped me.

1322
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 2: It's interesting that I have had. I've had so much support.

1323
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 2: Nick works from home, so it's a lot easier than

1324
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: either of us being in an office all the time.

1325
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 2: But my mechanics of the juggle has been I didn't

1326
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 2: need any help until the sleep thing, and then we

1327
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 2: got a night nanny, which I'll talk all about in

1328
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 2: the sleep episode, which has been game changing. But Teddy's

1329
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 2: like Harry, he only sleeps for twenty seven to thirty

1330
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 2: one minutes max. Like clockwork during the day, so I

1331
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 2: can't do anything really during the day, but I have

1332
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 2: film so it has to be during light hours, so

1333
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 2: I kind of need a day nanny. But the first

1334
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:50,439
Speaker 2: thing I asked you, I've asked quite a few people

1335
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 2: who I know have nanny's. I ask them how they

1336
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 2: got their nanny. But I also asked when, as if

1337
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 2: that matters, as if that's got anything to do with anything.

1338
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 4: I clearly need one.

1339
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:02,960
Speaker 2: Why does it matter that I need to compare how

1340
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 2: many months old Teddy is to how many months old

1341
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 2: someone else was when their children, in a totally different

1342
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 2: situation had a nanny.

1343
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 4: But it's the guilt. I'm like, is it too early,

1344
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 4: is it too late? Who cares? The reality is I

1345
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 4: need one. I need to get one. So it's just funny,

1346
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 4: I know.

1347
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 1: And we're all the same. And that was such a

1348
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 1: beautiful uncovering in the project as well, was like we

1349
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 1: all have the same feelings, and you think it's just you,

1350
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: and you think I'm a ship mum, or like my

1351
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: baby does this and I'm terrible or whatever, then like,

1352
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: hang on, we all feel this way. We're not special,

1353
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 1: We're not unique in it like everybody has trouble with sleep,

1354
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 1: Everyone has trouble with help and joggling it all. And like,

1355
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 1: I think, just that was awesome for me to see

1356
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: that from people I really looked up to as well.

1357
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: And even I remember Jess hatsis from Frank Body said

1358
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 1: in the book, like going back earlier and not really

1359
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 1: having any time off initially with her baby. She wouldn't

1360
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 1: wish that upon anyone, Like that's a hell that she

1361
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 1: wouldn't wish upon anybody. And I was like, yeah, that

1362
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 1: was really hard, Like I thought that too, and yeah,

1363
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 1: I just think that's so powerful to be like we

1364
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: all feel guilty, but we all also have these career

1365
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: ambitions and aspirations that we don't have to miss out

1366
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: on because we chose to start a family. And you

1367
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: just make it work in whatever way you can. And

1368
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: again like whatever makes you sleep at night, right, And

1369
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: there are some people who have no qualms about their

1370
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 1: level of support, some people who don't want to have

1371
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 1: external support at all. And again, like the women that

1372
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 1: stay home with their babies all the time, I'm like,

1373
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 1: hats off to you, because that is such a hard

1374
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 1: and demanding job. And I have so much respect for

1375
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:30,919
Speaker 1: women who can do that as well, and who choose

1376
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,040
Speaker 1: to do that unpaid work, and you deserve to have

1377
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 1: supernuation and all that stuff, and I think that, Yeah,

1378
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: it's massive the spectrum there, and we all feel a

1379
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 1: level of guilt and pain and regret and we're all

1380
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 1: just doing our best.

1381
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 2: I actually love that you've mentioned Steph, Phoebe from the memo,

1382
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 2: Jess and Lana. I've cried to all of them in

1383
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 2: the last couple of months at some point, and you

1384
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 2: so this book was like truly cathartic for me. But

1385
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 2: it's funny that the very life line is but would

1386
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 2: you change it? Not one bit? And I love that

1387
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 2: so much because the juggle is hard, it's messy, you

1388
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 2: cry a lot, you feel guilty, you have regrets, but

1389
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 2: like you really wouldn't You wouldn't change it.

1390
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. And again would I change some aspects?

1391
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 1: I think I'd like a better birth next time, and

1392
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 1: maybe I don't.

1393
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 2: Know, like a day of maternity leave, like one day totally, and.

1394
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 1: Those kind of things. Again, when people spoke about going

1395
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 1: around too, they could impart wisdom onto themselves and make

1396
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 1: those choices to be Jembler and give themselves more space

1397
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 1: and boundaries. So yes, definitely we wouldn't change it when

1398
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: you are challenged and you know, put up to the

1399
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 1: task of raising this little tiny human, especially you know

1400
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 1: at the stage where Henry, he's walking and he can

1401
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 1: kind of talk but not really, so everything is cart's

1402
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 1: all he can really say. It's just it's the cutest

1403
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 1: misial boarding thing in the world. And I feel like

1404
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 1: I was lucky in the sense I had a lot

1405
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: of validation from my work, and I was given a

1406
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 1: lot of external validation as well, and I've won awards

1407
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 1: and I've been on four thirty under thirty and all

1408
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: those things that I thought madded to me. And now

1409
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: contrasting to him walking into the room and saying, ca,

1410
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, there's nothing like it.

1411
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 4: Oh it's so beautiful.

1412
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 2: Well, I feel like no one who has listened to

1413
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:22,920
Speaker 2: this point in the episode will need any convincing of.

1414
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 4: Why the juggle.

1415
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 2: Your Beautiful book is such a valuable and validating and

1416
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 2: cathartic guide.

1417
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 4: To the juggle.

1418
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 2: Literally, it's out like as we type, as we type,

1419
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 2: oh my god, see mam brain, it's out as we speak,

1420
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 2: and as you guys, listen, I think it's on presale,

1421
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 2: but within a couple of days of this coming out,

1422
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 2: it will be officially on sale.

1423
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 4: But how are you feeling? Where can we find it?

1424
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 4: Where can we get it?

1425
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm so excited, So I think it will be

1426
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: out in the world by the time this is released,

1427
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 1: maybe a couple of days afterwards, so it'll be out

1428
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 1: in limited bookstores, or you can also find it on

1429
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: the Brio Books website or in my Instagram link in

1430
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 1: bio if you want to check me out at Genevieve Underscore.

1431
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 2: Day and it will be in my Instagram bio as well. Everybody,

1432
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 2: as well as the show notes for this episode, Jen,

1433
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 2: thank you so much for everything you do and have

1434
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 2: done on a personal level for me, but also now

1435
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 2: for the broader motherhood population on Planet Parent, where we're

1436
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 2: all just like totally unhinged and sleep deprived but fulfilled

1437
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 2: and happy and wondrous all at the same time.

1438
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 1: No, thank you so much saying you're the best.

1439
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 2: Well, that was meant to be a shorter form episode

1440
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:35,919
Speaker 2: on The Juggle, and it ended up being a longer form,

1441
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 2: juicy chat about pretty much everything. But that kind of

1442
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 2: is the juggle, I guess, and I found it incredibly cathartic.

1443
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 2: And I don't think you can ever hear enough that

1444
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 2: you're not alone in balancing all the different things that

1445
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 2: we're trying to balance, no matter what structure your career

1446
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 2: and your life and how many kids you have and whatever.

1447
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 2: Like everyone's going through it, And I hope that this

1448
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 2: was reassuring and a really nice addition to the CZA

1449
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 2: lineup for you guys. Really enjoying this segment so far,

1450
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 2: and also feel like, hopefully it will be a great

1451
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 2: addition to an extension of all the copying and pasting

1452
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 2: I've been doing on DMS trying to answer you eloquently.

1453
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 4: Please let me know what you think.

1454
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 2: Please share the episode, of course, go to the show

1455
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 2: notes and get the link to Gen's book, and we'll

1456
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 2: be back with more shortly. In the meantime, I hope

1457
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 2: you're seizing your ya