1
00:00:11,582 --> 00:00:16,182
Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

2
00:00:16,222 --> 00:00:19,702
Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waders. This podcast was

3
00:00:19,742 --> 00:00:22,902
Speaker 1: recorded on Hey, I'm Jemma Bath, host of True Crime

4
00:00:22,942 --> 00:00:25,422
Speaker 1: Conversations and did you know that the team at Mamma

5
00:00:25,462 --> 00:00:28,182
Speaker 1: Mia is bringing you over one hundred hours of the

6
00:00:28,222 --> 00:00:31,302
Speaker 1: best content from your award winning podcasts for the Hot

7
00:00:31,302 --> 00:00:35,262
Speaker 1: Pod Summer of your Dreams. Well, we are here at

8
00:00:35,302 --> 00:00:38,382
Speaker 1: two Crime Conversations. We've handpicked some of the most chilling

9
00:00:38,502 --> 00:00:42,702
Speaker 1: and thought provoking episodes from our feed, including gripping cult stories,

10
00:00:42,902 --> 00:00:46,102
Speaker 1: powerful interviews with crime victims, and in depth accounts from

11
00:00:46,142 --> 00:00:49,302
Speaker 1: women who have been incarcerated sharing the journeys that led

12
00:00:49,342 --> 00:00:52,582
Speaker 1: them to that place. And that's just the beginning. We

13
00:00:52,662 --> 00:00:55,462
Speaker 1: first brought you the story of Valo day Bell Doomsday

14
00:00:55,502 --> 00:00:59,382
Speaker 1: murders in twenty twenty two. As you'll hear, in November

15
00:00:59,382 --> 00:01:03,022
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, police conducted a welfare check on seven year

16
00:01:03,062 --> 00:01:07,102
Speaker 1: old JJ Valow. He hadn't been seen since September, and

17
00:01:07,142 --> 00:01:09,942
Speaker 1: police will come to realize that neither had his teenage sister.

18
00:01:11,022 --> 00:01:14,182
Speaker 1: Their parents led a Mormon religious group, which police would

19
00:01:14,182 --> 00:01:18,382
Speaker 1: discover to be a very sinister cult. Here's our original conversation.

20
00:01:18,622 --> 00:01:19,222
Speaker 2: Take a listen.

21
00:01:20,142 --> 00:01:24,622
Speaker 1: This episode deals with pedophilia and child abuse. Listener discretion

22
00:01:24,862 --> 00:01:31,622
Speaker 1: is advised. It's a Tuesday in November twenty nineteen, and

23
00:01:31,662 --> 00:01:35,062
Speaker 1: the autumn days in Rexburg, Idaho are getting cooler as

24
00:01:35,142 --> 00:01:40,142
Speaker 1: winter fast approaches. Police are on the doorstep of five

25
00:01:40,262 --> 00:01:44,222
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five Pioneer Road, conducting a welfare check

26
00:01:44,342 --> 00:01:49,542
Speaker 1: on seven year old JJ Vallo. JJ's grandparents haven't spoken

27
00:01:49,542 --> 00:01:54,142
Speaker 1: to him for months, and they're getting really worried. His mum,

28
00:01:54,342 --> 00:01:58,342
Speaker 1: Laurie Vallo, answers the door bye, thank you.

29
00:02:00,222 --> 00:02:03,822
Speaker 2: So yeah, this is a big mess. I just liked

30
00:02:03,822 --> 00:02:07,502
Speaker 2: to the guy already asked you. He was just saying

31
00:02:07,502 --> 00:02:10,742
Speaker 2: that you wanted to do a well chair day. So

32
00:02:11,222 --> 00:02:16,422
Speaker 2: Jaj we Arizona. Who's he worked in Arizona. He's with

33
00:02:16,502 --> 00:02:17,942
Speaker 2: one of my friends in Arizona.

34
00:02:18,022 --> 00:02:21,982
Speaker 1: But JJ isn't in Arizona. He's not with one of

35
00:02:22,022 --> 00:02:25,982
Speaker 1: Laurie's friends. And his big sister, Tylie is missing too.

36
00:02:26,822 --> 00:02:30,662
Speaker 1: Neither child has been seen since around September, when the

37
00:02:30,702 --> 00:02:34,662
Speaker 1: family first moved from Arizona to Idaho, a few months

38
00:02:34,702 --> 00:02:39,582
Speaker 1: after the shooting death of Lourie's fourth husband, police have

39
00:02:39,582 --> 00:02:43,902
Speaker 1: stumbled on a web of lies that are about to unravel. Affairs,

40
00:02:44,302 --> 00:02:48,222
Speaker 1: mysterious deaths, a doomsday cult, and at the center of

41
00:02:48,222 --> 00:02:52,462
Speaker 1: it all two missing children and a mother who isn't

42
00:02:52,622 --> 00:02:53,862
Speaker 1: trying to find them.

43
00:02:54,062 --> 00:02:57,302
Speaker 2: Where are your kids? Your comment? They've been missing for

44
00:02:57,342 --> 00:02:59,582
Speaker 2: four months. You have nothing to say. Just tell us

45
00:02:59,622 --> 00:03:00,142
Speaker 2: where they are.

46
00:03:07,742 --> 00:03:12,102
Speaker 1: I'm Jimmy Bath and this is True Crime Conversations Amma

47
00:03:12,182 --> 00:03:16,742
Speaker 1: mea podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes by speaking

48
00:03:16,742 --> 00:03:20,782
Speaker 1: to the people who know the most about them. In

49
00:03:20,782 --> 00:03:24,622
Speaker 1: today's episode, I'm speaking with journalist and author Leah Sattilly.

50
00:03:25,302 --> 00:03:28,542
Speaker 1: Her book When the Moon Turns to Blood examines the

51
00:03:28,582 --> 00:03:32,902
Speaker 1: trail of mysterious deaths surrounding Lori Valo and her husband,

52
00:03:32,982 --> 00:03:37,502
Speaker 1: doomsday novelist Chad Daybell. A reminder before we get into

53
00:03:37,502 --> 00:03:41,222
Speaker 1: the episode. While the couple are facing charges, they are

54
00:03:41,302 --> 00:03:45,862
Speaker 1: yet to stand trial for their alleged crimes. Leah, can

55
00:03:45,902 --> 00:03:48,102
Speaker 1: you give us a bit of an overview as to

56
00:03:48,182 --> 00:03:51,702
Speaker 1: who Lourie Valo was before all of this went down?

57
00:03:52,582 --> 00:03:54,622
Speaker 1: What was her family makeup, did she have a career,

58
00:03:54,662 --> 00:03:55,662
Speaker 1: what was her story?

59
00:03:56,422 --> 00:03:59,142
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. I think it was actually

60
00:03:59,142 --> 00:04:01,342
Speaker 2: a little bit hard to find when I was doing

61
00:04:01,342 --> 00:04:04,382
Speaker 2: the reporting for this book. She was somebody that wasn't

62
00:04:04,462 --> 00:04:07,982
Speaker 2: super online. She didn't have a high profile career or anything.

63
00:04:08,302 --> 00:04:10,822
Speaker 2: But what is known about her is that most of

64
00:04:10,862 --> 00:04:13,302
Speaker 2: her time she spent just being a stay at home mom.

65
00:04:13,582 --> 00:04:16,542
Speaker 2: For a time, she did work as a hairdresser in Texas,

66
00:04:16,902 --> 00:04:19,342
Speaker 2: which is probably why her hair always looks so amazing

67
00:04:19,702 --> 00:04:22,462
Speaker 2: even in jail. But for most of the time, she

68
00:04:23,222 --> 00:04:25,582
Speaker 2: was just concentrating on being a mother. You know, it's

69
00:04:25,582 --> 00:04:28,582
Speaker 2: a big part of the LDS faith that the Mormon church,

70
00:04:29,022 --> 00:04:31,422
Speaker 2: you know, to be in a mother means to be

71
00:04:31,462 --> 00:04:34,702
Speaker 2: a nurturer and a childcare provider. And that's a lot

72
00:04:34,702 --> 00:04:36,942
Speaker 2: of what she did and her life really was when

73
00:04:37,022 --> 00:04:39,622
Speaker 2: she wasn't working as a hairdresser anymore. It was raising

74
00:04:39,662 --> 00:04:43,702
Speaker 2: her children. It was going to church, teaching Sunday school,

75
00:04:43,742 --> 00:04:45,662
Speaker 2: and participating in church activities.

76
00:04:46,102 --> 00:04:48,142
Speaker 1: And she'd had quite a few husbands as well. She

77
00:04:48,182 --> 00:04:50,022
Speaker 1: was onto her fulls by the time this story kind

78
00:04:50,062 --> 00:04:50,822
Speaker 1: of really picks up.

79
00:04:51,342 --> 00:04:55,182
Speaker 2: Yes, So my understanding is that she married her high

80
00:04:55,222 --> 00:04:58,102
Speaker 2: school sweetheart. It was something that was her first marriage.

81
00:04:58,142 --> 00:05:00,862
Speaker 2: She sort of took off. Her family didn't even know

82
00:05:01,342 --> 00:05:04,782
Speaker 2: that she was getting married. That was a very brief marriage.

83
00:05:04,942 --> 00:05:08,382
Speaker 2: Her second marriage equally brief, but she did get pregnant

84
00:05:08,382 --> 00:05:11,902
Speaker 2: and that was the father of her first son, Colby,

85
00:05:12,102 --> 00:05:15,622
Speaker 2: who is alive. And that marriage I don't even think

86
00:05:15,702 --> 00:05:18,382
Speaker 2: last of the year. Then she got a little bit

87
00:05:18,462 --> 00:05:21,582
Speaker 2: more into more serious relationships. So she was married to

88
00:05:21,662 --> 00:05:24,742
Speaker 2: Joseph Ryan for quite some time, who is the father

89
00:05:24,822 --> 00:05:28,822
Speaker 2: of Tyleie Ryan. And when that marriage fell apart, she

90
00:05:29,062 --> 00:05:33,502
Speaker 2: married Charles Vaalo, her fourth husband and the father of

91
00:05:33,942 --> 00:05:36,342
Speaker 2: JJ Vaalo. They adopted JJ together.

92
00:05:36,982 --> 00:05:39,022
Speaker 1: Can you set the scene a little bit about who

93
00:05:39,302 --> 00:05:42,262
Speaker 1: JJ and Tylie were? Who were they as children?

94
00:05:42,622 --> 00:05:45,942
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's a really good question. I spent so

95
00:05:46,182 --> 00:05:49,022
Speaker 2: much of the book trying to understand who these children

96
00:05:49,062 --> 00:05:51,982
Speaker 2: were beyond their photographs, because that's really what everybody knows

97
00:05:51,982 --> 00:05:54,342
Speaker 2: about them. There are these two kids, they're in these photos,

98
00:05:54,382 --> 00:05:58,582
Speaker 2: and that's kind of it. Tylie Ryan seemed by all

99
00:05:58,702 --> 00:06:03,862
Speaker 2: accounts to be this very precocious, very intelligent child. She

100
00:06:04,062 --> 00:06:07,222
Speaker 2: went to an art based school. At one point she

101
00:06:07,382 --> 00:06:11,662
Speaker 2: was into dancing, you know, real sarcastic, quick humor. Like

102
00:06:11,782 --> 00:06:14,542
Speaker 2: kids at school couldn't even really bully her because she

103
00:06:14,582 --> 00:06:17,142
Speaker 2: would just like come right back at them, just kind

104
00:06:17,182 --> 00:06:20,062
Speaker 2: of like a really tough kid with a great sense

105
00:06:20,062 --> 00:06:22,662
Speaker 2: of humor and a good head on her shoulders. Also

106
00:06:22,702 --> 00:06:25,622
Speaker 2: really into church, you know, doing things that you know

107
00:06:25,702 --> 00:06:29,502
Speaker 2: any girl would do. She was really into Hamilton. She

108
00:06:29,982 --> 00:06:33,582
Speaker 2: you know, crushed on different celebrities with her girlfriends and

109
00:06:34,182 --> 00:06:37,422
Speaker 2: went to Disneyland and did all of those things. And

110
00:06:37,462 --> 00:06:40,942
Speaker 2: she completed her ged so she didn't finish high school,

111
00:06:40,942 --> 00:06:42,902
Speaker 2: but she did a certificate to kind of do the

112
00:06:42,942 --> 00:06:45,862
Speaker 2: equivalent of that, and was trying to figure out what

113
00:06:45,942 --> 00:06:48,022
Speaker 2: she was going to do next in her life. And

114
00:06:48,062 --> 00:06:50,702
Speaker 2: then her little brother was JJ Vallo. So it's a

115
00:06:50,742 --> 00:06:54,862
Speaker 2: real complicated family web here. I'll see if I can

116
00:06:55,222 --> 00:06:58,422
Speaker 2: explain it easily. So Laurie was married to Charles Valo.

117
00:06:58,942 --> 00:07:02,862
Speaker 2: Charles Valo's sister is a woman named Kay Woodcock who

118
00:07:02,982 --> 00:07:06,022
Speaker 2: is a real big figure in this story. Kay Woodcock

119
00:07:06,182 --> 00:07:11,262
Speaker 2: has her own son, and her son had a little

120
00:07:11,262 --> 00:07:14,222
Speaker 2: boy who's JJ. He had a different name when he

121
00:07:14,302 --> 00:07:17,342
Speaker 2: was born for a variety of reasons I don't think

122
00:07:17,422 --> 00:07:20,982
Speaker 2: we can really get into. He couldn't care for the child,

123
00:07:21,222 --> 00:07:24,902
Speaker 2: and Kay Woodcock said to her brother, Charles, you know,

124
00:07:25,262 --> 00:07:27,142
Speaker 2: are you and Laurie maybe in a position that you

125
00:07:27,182 --> 00:07:29,342
Speaker 2: could adopt this little boy if they wanted to kind

126
00:07:29,342 --> 00:07:31,862
Speaker 2: of keep him in the family, and they said yes.

127
00:07:31,982 --> 00:07:35,542
Speaker 2: So Laurie and Charles adopted JJ when he was two

128
00:07:35,622 --> 00:07:38,862
Speaker 2: years old. They gave him a new name. He was

129
00:07:38,942 --> 00:07:43,382
Speaker 2: born Canaan and they named him Joshua. And he was

130
00:07:43,422 --> 00:07:46,582
Speaker 2: on autism spectrum, so he had really kind of high

131
00:07:46,662 --> 00:07:49,902
Speaker 2: needs that required a lot of their energy, a lot

132
00:07:49,902 --> 00:07:51,902
Speaker 2: of their time, and a lot of their understanding. They

133
00:07:51,942 --> 00:07:55,502
Speaker 2: sent JJ to a special school that was you know,

134
00:07:55,622 --> 00:07:57,942
Speaker 2: catered to kids on the spectrum, and he had a

135
00:07:57,942 --> 00:08:01,342
Speaker 2: lot of success there. He had his own guide dog

136
00:08:01,542 --> 00:08:04,862
Speaker 2: named Bailey, and seemed by all accounts to be a

137
00:08:04,902 --> 00:08:07,782
Speaker 2: really happy kid. And he remaintained a really close relationship

138
00:08:07,782 --> 00:08:10,382
Speaker 2: with his grandparents, Kay Woodcock and Larry Woodcock.

139
00:08:10,822 --> 00:08:14,822
Speaker 1: So Charles who is the adopted father of JJ. So

140
00:08:15,502 --> 00:08:17,342
Speaker 1: Laurie and Charles were together, you know, for more than

141
00:08:17,382 --> 00:08:21,102
Speaker 1: a decade of marriage before things started to turn sah there.

142
00:08:22,062 --> 00:08:25,862
Speaker 1: What did start happening because Laurie started to get involved

143
00:08:25,902 --> 00:08:28,262
Speaker 1: in some teachings around that time.

144
00:08:28,822 --> 00:08:31,182
Speaker 2: When they met, you know, there was a big age

145
00:08:31,182 --> 00:08:33,382
Speaker 2: difference between them, Like I think that they would joke

146
00:08:33,502 --> 00:08:36,262
Speaker 2: that he was kind of like a sugar daddy a

147
00:08:36,262 --> 00:08:38,222
Speaker 2: little bit, and she was kind of this hot, you

148
00:08:38,262 --> 00:08:40,022
Speaker 2: know wife, and they thought that was real funny and

149
00:08:40,022 --> 00:08:43,222
Speaker 2: they're a beautiful couple, and you know, yeah, like you said,

150
00:08:43,382 --> 00:08:49,182
Speaker 2: about a decade into their relationship, Laurie started to entertain

151
00:08:49,422 --> 00:08:52,942
Speaker 2: ideas really at the fringes of the Mormon faith, things

152
00:08:52,942 --> 00:08:56,222
Speaker 2: that are not acceptable to talk about in church. And

153
00:08:56,862 --> 00:08:59,822
Speaker 2: you know, Charles converted to Mormonism for Laurie, so he

154
00:08:59,902 --> 00:09:02,142
Speaker 2: was also a real active member in the church. She

155
00:09:02,302 --> 00:09:05,662
Speaker 2: continued to go to her local ward every Sunday and

156
00:09:05,662 --> 00:09:09,062
Speaker 2: teach Sunday School, but on the side, she was becoming

157
00:09:09,102 --> 00:09:11,742
Speaker 2: a part of these groups that would sort of you know,

158
00:09:11,902 --> 00:09:15,942
Speaker 2: read into scripture and really kind of fringy extremist ways,

159
00:09:16,022 --> 00:09:20,022
Speaker 2: sort of looking for radical teachings within the Book of Mormon,

160
00:09:20,622 --> 00:09:25,382
Speaker 2: entertaining things like energy work and near death experiences. And

161
00:09:25,902 --> 00:09:30,142
Speaker 2: also she started attending conferences on the sort of survivalist

162
00:09:30,222 --> 00:09:34,382
Speaker 2: prepper circuit within the inter Mountain West, so like Utah, Arizona,

163
00:09:34,942 --> 00:09:39,342
Speaker 2: and really kind of sinking deeply into this culture that

164
00:09:39,382 --> 00:09:43,182
Speaker 2: the mainstream LDS church has long been like no, no, no,

165
00:09:43,222 --> 00:09:45,102
Speaker 2: this is not what we teach, this is not who

166
00:09:45,182 --> 00:09:48,062
Speaker 2: we are. This is not Mormonism. But even so, there's

167
00:09:48,102 --> 00:09:50,182
Speaker 2: like what I found in my reporting, there's a lot

168
00:09:50,182 --> 00:09:53,182
Speaker 2: of people who want to like level up their faith.

169
00:09:53,382 --> 00:09:56,062
Speaker 2: That's kind of what they'll say. They're like seeking something more.

170
00:09:56,182 --> 00:10:00,502
Speaker 2: They're not satisfied with, you know, just being a normal Mormon.

171
00:10:00,582 --> 00:10:02,902
Speaker 2: They want something that's going to make them feel a

172
00:10:02,942 --> 00:10:05,742
Speaker 2: little closer to their faith. And so what I found

173
00:10:05,822 --> 00:10:07,382
Speaker 2: was that I thought she was maybe a part of

174
00:10:07,422 --> 00:10:10,782
Speaker 2: like a fringe minority, and you know, that's the is

175
00:10:10,822 --> 00:10:12,822
Speaker 2: the case, but it's a lot bigger than I thought.

176
00:10:12,862 --> 00:10:15,822
Speaker 2: These conferences and these groups of people that kind of

177
00:10:15,942 --> 00:10:16,902
Speaker 2: entertain this stuff.

178
00:10:17,502 --> 00:10:19,742
Speaker 1: Now we're going to go into Chad in Daytail later,

179
00:10:19,982 --> 00:10:22,262
Speaker 1: but he's already kind of on the picture now because

180
00:10:22,302 --> 00:10:24,942
Speaker 1: he is a big influence in all of this stuff

181
00:10:24,942 --> 00:10:26,222
Speaker 1: that she's kind of sinking into.

182
00:10:26,742 --> 00:10:30,502
Speaker 2: Exactly she met Chad on that prepper circuit. He was

183
00:10:30,542 --> 00:10:33,542
Speaker 2: in Your Death Experience author had kind of like a

184
00:10:33,662 --> 00:10:38,542
Speaker 2: small cachet I think, like of celebrity within that circuit,

185
00:10:38,662 --> 00:10:41,542
Speaker 2: and that's where they met. That's how they came together.

186
00:10:42,142 --> 00:10:44,062
Speaker 1: Am I right in saying that one of the issues

187
00:10:44,102 --> 00:10:48,542
Speaker 1: between Charles and Laurie's relationship is that he is accusing

188
00:10:49,022 --> 00:10:51,982
Speaker 1: her of having an affair, she's accusing him of having

189
00:10:51,982 --> 00:10:53,782
Speaker 1: an affair. There's all this kind of it gets a

190
00:10:53,782 --> 00:10:54,302
Speaker 1: bit messy.

191
00:10:54,782 --> 00:10:57,222
Speaker 2: It did. It got very messy. I think that one

192
00:10:57,262 --> 00:11:00,182
Speaker 2: thing that I had to understand in doing my reporting

193
00:11:00,422 --> 00:11:04,822
Speaker 2: was that, you know, Charles was no angel, and that

194
00:11:05,182 --> 00:11:08,182
Speaker 2: in no way means that he should not be alive.

195
00:11:08,462 --> 00:11:11,742
Speaker 2: But there's no excuse for him being killed. But he

196
00:11:12,102 --> 00:11:15,742
Speaker 2: definitely started to have a sense that something was going

197
00:11:15,782 --> 00:11:18,422
Speaker 2: on with Laurie. You know, she had said to him, look,

198
00:11:18,462 --> 00:11:20,942
Speaker 2: I can kill you with my powers. I'm a goddess.

199
00:11:21,062 --> 00:11:23,822
Speaker 2: Like she started to really be out and proud about

200
00:11:23,822 --> 00:11:27,342
Speaker 2: the things that she was believing, and Charles was like,

201
00:11:27,422 --> 00:11:30,062
Speaker 2: what is going on with you? And he tried really

202
00:11:30,102 --> 00:11:33,782
Speaker 2: to ring the alarm kind of at church with her friends,

203
00:11:33,902 --> 00:11:36,542
Speaker 2: with her family, and kind of got shut down at

204
00:11:36,542 --> 00:11:40,982
Speaker 2: every point. Now, she also accused him of cheating on her.

205
00:11:41,502 --> 00:11:44,462
Speaker 2: She had said something to Kay Woodcock about that he

206
00:11:44,622 --> 00:11:47,862
Speaker 2: was paying prostitutes, and she'd found some kind of credit

207
00:11:47,902 --> 00:11:51,262
Speaker 2: card receipts and stuff. You know, it was clear that

208
00:11:51,342 --> 00:11:53,782
Speaker 2: their marriage was really falling apart. At one point, Laurie

209
00:11:53,782 --> 00:11:58,222
Speaker 2: disappeared for two months and went to Hawaii and left JJ.

210
00:11:58,822 --> 00:12:01,342
Speaker 2: You know, with Charles, he had no idea where she was,

211
00:12:01,462 --> 00:12:04,662
Speaker 2: and he filed for divorce. When she came back, he

212
00:12:04,822 --> 00:12:08,062
Speaker 2: revoked that filing for divorce because he said, I think

213
00:12:08,102 --> 00:12:11,142
Speaker 2: we can make it work, but of course it didn't work.

214
00:12:11,742 --> 00:12:13,822
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I want to take us to July eleven,

215
00:12:13,942 --> 00:12:17,822
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, emergency service is a cold to Laurie's house.

216
00:12:17,902 --> 00:12:20,062
Speaker 1: Laurie and Charles's house, what was happening.

217
00:12:20,742 --> 00:12:25,262
Speaker 2: So what happened was Charles had started getting more aggressive

218
00:12:25,382 --> 00:12:28,182
Speaker 2: with Laurie, saying, I'm going to expose you. I'm going

219
00:12:28,262 --> 00:12:30,942
Speaker 2: to expose you and your boyfriend, Chad Dabel. I'm going

220
00:12:31,022 --> 00:12:34,382
Speaker 2: to tell all these faithful people that you're around that

221
00:12:34,822 --> 00:12:37,622
Speaker 2: you're not really living by the way the church says,

222
00:12:37,702 --> 00:12:40,142
Speaker 2: that you're doing all this crazy stuff. You know. They

223
00:12:40,142 --> 00:12:45,142
Speaker 2: were kind of threatening each other, and she got word

224
00:12:45,422 --> 00:12:50,302
Speaker 2: that Charles had started speaking to her brother, to her sisters,

225
00:12:50,502 --> 00:12:52,662
Speaker 2: to her parents, and he was going to try and

226
00:12:52,742 --> 00:12:56,942
Speaker 2: stage an intervention with her brother where they would record

227
00:12:57,062 --> 00:12:59,542
Speaker 2: her talking about what she believed and then they would

228
00:12:59,622 --> 00:13:02,062
Speaker 2: show it to somebody in the church in hopes of

229
00:13:02,102 --> 00:13:05,622
Speaker 2: maybe getting her excommunicated or or doing something that would

230
00:13:05,662 --> 00:13:07,582
Speaker 2: really kind of wake her up out of this kind

231
00:13:07,622 --> 00:13:09,782
Speaker 2: of trance that she was in with these beliefs. So

232
00:13:09,942 --> 00:13:13,822
Speaker 2: knowing that, Rie called her brother Alex, who at this

233
00:13:13,942 --> 00:13:16,902
Speaker 2: point is known as somebody that you know has always

234
00:13:16,942 --> 00:13:18,742
Speaker 2: kind of been like a guardian, and she thought of

235
00:13:18,862 --> 00:13:21,622
Speaker 2: Alex as her guardian angel, and she said, come over,

236
00:13:21,702 --> 00:13:24,422
Speaker 2: I need you to be here. So that morning, Charles

237
00:13:24,502 --> 00:13:27,102
Speaker 2: came over to pick up JJ. He said he was

238
00:13:27,142 --> 00:13:30,582
Speaker 2: going to bring him to school. A confrontation ensued, and

239
00:13:30,742 --> 00:13:33,942
Speaker 2: Alex went to his room that he was staying in

240
00:13:33,982 --> 00:13:36,702
Speaker 2: and got the gun that he brought with him and

241
00:13:36,742 --> 00:13:40,382
Speaker 2: shot Charles. He said it was in self defense. Now

242
00:13:40,662 --> 00:13:46,222
Speaker 2: we know that investigators found two bullets, one of which

243
00:13:46,342 --> 00:13:49,342
Speaker 2: was in a wall, but the other one was directly

244
00:13:49,462 --> 00:13:52,702
Speaker 2: into the floor, which suggested to them that he shot

245
00:13:52,862 --> 00:13:56,382
Speaker 2: Charles like you know a mobster would in a movie,

246
00:13:56,462 --> 00:13:59,142
Speaker 2: Like he shot him as he was laying on the ground.

247
00:13:59,222 --> 00:14:02,542
Speaker 2: So that shot, based on and many other pieces of evidence,

248
00:14:02,542 --> 00:14:04,622
Speaker 2: started to suggest to them that this was a murder.

249
00:14:04,662 --> 00:14:06,382
Speaker 2: It was not an act of self defense.

250
00:14:06,942 --> 00:14:09,222
Speaker 1: What struck me was the behavior of Alex off to

251
00:14:09,302 --> 00:14:13,502
Speaker 1: that incident. Police camera footage of him on the footpath

252
00:14:13,542 --> 00:14:19,662
Speaker 1: outside and he's he's just shot someone and he appears fine.

253
00:14:20,182 --> 00:14:23,622
Speaker 1: And then there's this other element where Laurie just takes

254
00:14:23,702 --> 00:14:27,142
Speaker 1: JJ to school, like everything just feels so normal.

255
00:14:27,942 --> 00:14:30,302
Speaker 2: I'm so glad that you've seen that footage because it

256
00:14:30,422 --> 00:14:33,782
Speaker 2: is so striking. I mean, first, you're right, Alex, you know,

257
00:14:33,862 --> 00:14:36,742
Speaker 2: he comes outside, he says, I shot my brother in law.

258
00:14:36,982 --> 00:14:38,622
Speaker 2: You know, he came out with he hit me in

259
00:14:38,662 --> 00:14:40,782
Speaker 2: the head with a baseball that I shot him in

260
00:14:40,822 --> 00:14:45,782
Speaker 2: self defense. Charles Vella at once was a college baseball player,

261
00:14:46,142 --> 00:14:50,102
Speaker 2: and he was a very you know, very muscular strong man,

262
00:14:50,582 --> 00:14:52,302
Speaker 2: and I imagine that if he'd hit somebody in the

263
00:14:52,342 --> 00:14:55,262
Speaker 2: head with a baseball bat that he would be very hurt.

264
00:14:55,702 --> 00:14:58,582
Speaker 2: And Alex had this just teeny tiny trickle of blood

265
00:14:58,622 --> 00:15:00,462
Speaker 2: on the back of his head, like maybe he'd fallen

266
00:15:00,502 --> 00:15:03,742
Speaker 2: down or something. So that was clearly a line that

267
00:15:03,782 --> 00:15:06,382
Speaker 2: he was feeding the police, but they bought it. And

268
00:15:06,662 --> 00:15:08,982
Speaker 2: the thing that struck me was that, you know, one

269
00:15:08,982 --> 00:15:11,622
Speaker 2: of the police officers was sort of realizing what was happening,

270
00:15:11,702 --> 00:15:13,902
Speaker 2: that you know, there was a dead body inside, and

271
00:15:14,302 --> 00:15:16,662
Speaker 2: he tells Alex, hang on, you know, and need just

272
00:15:16,702 --> 00:15:18,342
Speaker 2: sit here on the curb and he goes to kind

273
00:15:18,382 --> 00:15:20,782
Speaker 2: of get his colleagues and rope it off. So it's

274
00:15:20,782 --> 00:15:23,662
Speaker 2: a murder scene, and Alex has the nerve to be like, hey,

275
00:15:23,662 --> 00:15:26,422
Speaker 2: can I get some water? Like it just it just

276
00:15:26,542 --> 00:15:29,262
Speaker 2: was like, you know, we talked so much about the

277
00:15:29,342 --> 00:15:32,582
Speaker 2: differences in the way law enforcement treats people of color

278
00:15:32,742 --> 00:15:35,022
Speaker 2: and white people in America, and this was just one

279
00:15:35,062 --> 00:15:38,102
Speaker 2: of those glaring examples where you're like, this person just

280
00:15:38,142 --> 00:15:41,262
Speaker 2: shot someone and they're just like acting like they're some

281
00:15:41,422 --> 00:15:42,182
Speaker 2: kind of victim.

282
00:15:42,502 --> 00:15:44,382
Speaker 1: And he was asking about the weather and stuff.

283
00:15:44,862 --> 00:15:48,342
Speaker 2: It's bizarre. It's really bizarre. And then yeah, Laurie, so

284
00:15:49,062 --> 00:15:52,462
Speaker 2: after Charles was shot, you know, she got in the

285
00:15:52,502 --> 00:15:55,942
Speaker 2: car with JJ, went to Burger King to get him

286
00:15:55,982 --> 00:15:59,142
Speaker 2: some chicken fries and a sprite for breakfast, took him

287
00:15:59,142 --> 00:16:02,542
Speaker 2: to school, went to a pharmacy and bought some flip

288
00:16:02,542 --> 00:16:05,542
Speaker 2: flops for her and Kyle to wear, which you know,

289
00:16:05,742 --> 00:16:07,942
Speaker 2: I don't think has ever been answered, but it makes

290
00:16:07,982 --> 00:16:10,022
Speaker 2: me wonder why, you know, did they leave I think

291
00:16:10,062 --> 00:16:12,142
Speaker 2: they may have left the house without shoes on. But

292
00:16:12,182 --> 00:16:14,102
Speaker 2: then part of me is like, did they walk through

293
00:16:14,142 --> 00:16:16,742
Speaker 2: blood that they didn't want? You know, that's a speculation

294
00:16:16,862 --> 00:16:19,742
Speaker 2: on my part, but yeah, she kind of went about

295
00:16:19,742 --> 00:16:23,102
Speaker 2: her mourning and then came back and pulled up to

296
00:16:23,142 --> 00:16:25,942
Speaker 2: the house and the police, you know, told her, your

297
00:16:26,062 --> 00:16:28,582
Speaker 2: husband has been shot by your brother, and she's like

298
00:16:29,262 --> 00:16:31,782
Speaker 2: laughing and being like, wow, what an impression to make

299
00:16:31,782 --> 00:16:34,342
Speaker 2: on my new neighbors. Ha ha ha. It was very

300
00:16:34,422 --> 00:16:36,502
Speaker 2: it was very odd. It was very odd. And what's

301
00:16:36,542 --> 00:16:40,222
Speaker 2: amazing is that the police really bought what Alex and

302
00:16:40,262 --> 00:16:43,222
Speaker 2: Laurie told them. It took over a year for them

303
00:16:43,262 --> 00:16:45,742
Speaker 2: to release some of the evidence where they're like, hang on,

304
00:16:46,342 --> 00:16:48,742
Speaker 2: this was definitely not an act of self defense.

305
00:16:49,262 --> 00:16:51,622
Speaker 1: Had Alex done anything this before? You mentioned that he

306
00:16:51,702 --> 00:16:54,102
Speaker 1: was kind of like the family protecta. Was there any

307
00:16:54,102 --> 00:16:55,782
Speaker 1: other incidents.

308
00:16:55,382 --> 00:16:59,302
Speaker 2: They had a really strange relationship. There is one incident

309
00:16:59,342 --> 00:17:02,462
Speaker 2: of note that is, you know, for people who followed

310
00:17:02,462 --> 00:17:04,742
Speaker 2: this story, I think it's critical to know that when

311
00:17:04,822 --> 00:17:08,302
Speaker 2: Laurie was married to her third husband, Joseph Ryan, they

312
00:17:08,342 --> 00:17:11,062
Speaker 2: had a very very messy divorce and it was so

313
00:17:11,262 --> 00:17:15,742
Speaker 2: messy because she accused Joseph Ryan of molesting Tylee and

314
00:17:15,782 --> 00:17:19,022
Speaker 2: her older brother Colby, and that was in and out

315
00:17:19,102 --> 00:17:21,662
Speaker 2: of court. I mean, it went to trial, which is

316
00:17:21,782 --> 00:17:24,742
Speaker 2: very rare that something like that would happen. And to

317
00:17:24,822 --> 00:17:28,622
Speaker 2: this day, the mental health professionals that worked on that case,

318
00:17:28,662 --> 00:17:32,102
Speaker 2: that interviewed the kids that testified in the trial, they

319
00:17:32,142 --> 00:17:36,702
Speaker 2: told Dateline that they still think that there's nothing that happened,

320
00:17:36,742 --> 00:17:40,342
Speaker 2: that it was all a complete fabrication of Flori. But regardless,

321
00:17:40,542 --> 00:17:43,302
Speaker 2: this was sort of the circumstances. She was telling everyone

322
00:17:43,382 --> 00:17:46,182
Speaker 2: that her husband had molested her children and it was

323
00:17:46,222 --> 00:17:50,422
Speaker 2: a big deal. So at one point Joseph Ryan had

324
00:17:50,782 --> 00:17:53,382
Speaker 2: the ability to see his daughter again, but it had

325
00:17:53,382 --> 00:17:55,902
Speaker 2: to be at a facility where someone could like monitor.

326
00:17:56,142 --> 00:17:57,782
Speaker 2: It was like, you know, as they were kind of

327
00:17:57,822 --> 00:18:01,302
Speaker 2: working towards a normalcy again, he started seeing her there

328
00:18:01,702 --> 00:18:03,542
Speaker 2: and it was kind of like, so everybody was like

329
00:18:03,582 --> 00:18:06,502
Speaker 2: a neutral party sort of place. Well, he sees Tylee

330
00:18:06,862 --> 00:18:08,862
Speaker 2: and then he leaves and he's going out to his

331
00:18:08,902 --> 00:18:12,022
Speaker 2: car and there's a guy standing by his car and

332
00:18:12,062 --> 00:18:14,942
Speaker 2: it's Alex and he says, you know, I need to

333
00:18:14,982 --> 00:18:17,302
Speaker 2: talk to you, and Joseph Frian's like, we don't need

334
00:18:17,382 --> 00:18:21,102
Speaker 2: to talk. And Alex gets out of taser and tases him,

335
00:18:21,542 --> 00:18:23,862
Speaker 2: and you know, Joseph Ryan gets tased, he falls down,

336
00:18:23,982 --> 00:18:27,982
Speaker 2: he gets up, he runs away. Alex continues to tase him,

337
00:18:28,382 --> 00:18:31,742
Speaker 2: Joseph Ryan falls down again, fractures his wrist. You know,

338
00:18:31,822 --> 00:18:35,102
Speaker 2: the police get called, and in the end, Alex Cox

339
00:18:35,182 --> 00:18:37,942
Speaker 2: ends up going to jail for several months for this

340
00:18:38,022 --> 00:18:41,062
Speaker 2: assault that he thought Josephryan was a child molester and

341
00:18:41,102 --> 00:18:45,262
Speaker 2: he deserved that. So later Tyler Ryan would tell her father,

342
00:18:45,422 --> 00:18:48,422
Speaker 2: Joseph Ryan, that she saw it happen. So there's a

343
00:18:48,462 --> 00:18:51,862
Speaker 2: lot of speculation of whether or not Laurie and him

344
00:18:52,022 --> 00:18:54,942
Speaker 2: were in on this together, and that, you know, Tylee

345
00:18:55,182 --> 00:18:55,502
Speaker 2: was there.

346
00:18:56,502 --> 00:19:00,142
Speaker 1: What happens next, because not long after the shooting, Laurie

347
00:19:00,182 --> 00:19:02,342
Speaker 1: and the kids' lifetown they do.

348
00:19:02,542 --> 00:19:06,822
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're there in Arizona for a couple more actually, no,

349
00:19:06,902 --> 00:19:09,582
Speaker 2: probably only about a month and a half before they

350
00:19:09,622 --> 00:19:14,422
Speaker 2: decide to move very randomly to Rexburg, Idaho. It's a

351
00:19:14,462 --> 00:19:17,902
Speaker 2: few states away. You know. Laurie lives in the Phoenix

352
00:19:17,942 --> 00:19:21,622
Speaker 2: area in Arizona's a very urban, suburban place, and she

353
00:19:21,822 --> 00:19:25,342
Speaker 2: decides to go to this very small town in rural

354
00:19:25,382 --> 00:19:29,542
Speaker 2: southern Idaho and she pulls JJ out of school, She

355
00:19:29,662 --> 00:19:32,942
Speaker 2: gets rid of his service dog, returns it to the

356
00:19:32,942 --> 00:19:35,022
Speaker 2: place that you know train service dogs, and says, we

357
00:19:35,062 --> 00:19:37,462
Speaker 2: aren't going to need the dog anymore. So they moved

358
00:19:37,502 --> 00:19:39,942
Speaker 2: to Rexburg, Idaho, and she tells no one, No one

359
00:19:39,982 --> 00:19:42,942
Speaker 2: knows that she moved. So they get to Rexburg in

360
00:19:43,102 --> 00:19:47,542
Speaker 2: early September of twenty nineteen, and pretty quickly, you know,

361
00:19:47,582 --> 00:19:49,702
Speaker 2: if you go to the area, everybody goes to Yellowstone

362
00:19:49,782 --> 00:19:52,142
Speaker 2: National Park. That's like the thing that you do in

363
00:19:52,182 --> 00:19:57,942
Speaker 2: the family. Like a family, they go to Yellowstone National Park. Lurie, Tylee, JJ,

364
00:19:58,502 --> 00:20:03,062
Speaker 2: and Alex Cox, Laurie's brother, and that is the last

365
00:20:03,062 --> 00:20:06,982
Speaker 2: time that Tyler Ryan has ever seen is in photos

366
00:20:07,022 --> 00:20:10,582
Speaker 2: from that trip to Yellowstone. Now, the whole reason that

367
00:20:10,622 --> 00:20:13,142
Speaker 2: we can surmise that Laurie moved to Rexburg was that

368
00:20:13,222 --> 00:20:16,462
Speaker 2: Chad Dabel lived there. This was somebody that she was

369
00:20:16,782 --> 00:20:19,302
Speaker 2: arranging to see. You know, while she was still married

370
00:20:19,342 --> 00:20:21,662
Speaker 2: to Charles, they were meeting, they were going to conferences

371
00:20:21,662 --> 00:20:24,582
Speaker 2: and seeing each other. She had a separate cell phone

372
00:20:24,622 --> 00:20:27,102
Speaker 2: that she would talk to for Chad Dabel. She very

373
00:20:27,102 --> 00:20:29,822
Speaker 2: clearly she was having an affair. But with Charles out

374
00:20:29,822 --> 00:20:33,342
Speaker 2: of the picture, she moves north to Rexburg, goes to Yellowstone.

375
00:20:33,502 --> 00:20:36,742
Speaker 2: Tyleye's never seen, but she has JJ for a few

376
00:20:36,782 --> 00:20:40,742
Speaker 2: more weeks and then JJ is last seen in late

377
00:20:40,822 --> 00:20:42,542
Speaker 2: September twenty nineteen.

378
00:20:42,982 --> 00:20:45,742
Speaker 1: Does anyone notice that they'd gone? I guess they're in

379
00:20:45,782 --> 00:20:47,262
Speaker 1: this new town where no one knows them.

380
00:20:47,942 --> 00:20:50,942
Speaker 2: I think the person who noticed the most that they

381
00:20:50,982 --> 00:20:54,942
Speaker 2: had moved from Arizona was Charles Valla's sister, Kay Woodcock.

382
00:20:55,142 --> 00:20:57,462
Speaker 2: Now she lived in a totally different state, but she

383
00:20:57,542 --> 00:21:01,462
Speaker 2: had really regular contact with JJ, with her grandson, and

384
00:21:01,662 --> 00:21:04,662
Speaker 2: all of a sudden that just stopped. After Charles died.

385
00:21:04,822 --> 00:21:07,582
Speaker 2: You know, they had a funeral for him, and Laurie

386
00:21:07,622 --> 00:21:10,102
Speaker 2: refused to go. I mean, she didn't go to the funeral.

387
00:21:10,542 --> 00:21:12,662
Speaker 2: She said she didn't want JJ to go to his funeral.

388
00:21:13,062 --> 00:21:16,942
Speaker 2: She stopped answering Kate's calls, and then they just moved.

389
00:21:17,022 --> 00:21:20,062
Speaker 2: And this could come out in the trial that maybe

390
00:21:20,102 --> 00:21:22,942
Speaker 2: some of Laurie's friends that she was involved with knew,

391
00:21:23,582 --> 00:21:27,142
Speaker 2: but for the most part, really nobody knew. Nobody really

392
00:21:27,182 --> 00:21:30,902
Speaker 2: and her family knew. Her own son, Colby, her oldest son,

393
00:21:31,382 --> 00:21:34,422
Speaker 2: did not initially know that his mom and his siblings

394
00:21:34,662 --> 00:21:37,462
Speaker 2: moved to Idaho. He had no idea, So it was

395
00:21:37,502 --> 00:21:39,222
Speaker 2: a very very random thing.

396
00:21:41,462 --> 00:21:45,582
Speaker 1: You're listening to true crime Conversations with me, Jemma buff

397
00:21:46,062 --> 00:21:50,022
Speaker 1: I'm speaking with investigative journalists. Leah satilly about Lourie Vallo

398
00:21:50,142 --> 00:21:56,342
Speaker 1: and her husband Chad day Bell. I want to set

399
00:21:56,422 --> 00:21:59,262
Speaker 1: up Chad Dabell a little bit more because he already

400
00:21:59,342 --> 00:22:01,142
Speaker 1: had a family in rex Book, didn't he.

401
00:22:02,062 --> 00:22:04,422
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was married to a woman named Tammy. They

402
00:22:04,462 --> 00:22:07,502
Speaker 2: had been married for twenty nine years, you know, since

403
00:22:07,542 --> 00:22:11,542
Speaker 2: they were quite young. They had five children, several that

404
00:22:11,662 --> 00:22:14,702
Speaker 2: were grown, several that still lived at home. But yeah,

405
00:22:14,782 --> 00:22:18,462
Speaker 2: by whole accounts, a very happy life together. They ran

406
00:22:18,942 --> 00:22:22,902
Speaker 2: his book publishing company called Spring Creek Books that published

407
00:22:22,902 --> 00:22:26,102
Speaker 2: lots of different authors, but also published all of his books.

408
00:22:26,622 --> 00:22:29,702
Speaker 2: And then Tammy also worked as a librarian at a

409
00:22:29,702 --> 00:22:33,822
Speaker 2: local elementary school, very popular among kids, you know, very

410
00:22:33,902 --> 00:22:36,462
Speaker 2: known for her love of books and that kind of thing.

411
00:22:36,742 --> 00:22:39,102
Speaker 2: But yeah, he had a whole life. He had moved

412
00:22:39,142 --> 00:22:43,982
Speaker 2: his family from Utah a few years earlier, and that

413
00:22:44,182 --> 00:22:47,222
Speaker 2: was also seen in the Dabel family as very odd,

414
00:22:47,382 --> 00:22:50,542
Speaker 2: Like what you're moving to Rexburg, Idaho? Why you know,

415
00:22:50,582 --> 00:22:54,782
Speaker 2: it's less far than Lori's move. But Davell started to

416
00:22:54,822 --> 00:22:57,942
Speaker 2: write in his books about his belief that, you know,

417
00:22:58,542 --> 00:23:02,502
Speaker 2: the Promised Land, the sort of like place where the

418
00:23:02,662 --> 00:23:06,502
Speaker 2: chosen people would be saved in the End Times was Rexburg, Idaho,

419
00:23:06,622 --> 00:23:09,182
Speaker 2: And you have to wonder if that's the reason why

420
00:23:09,222 --> 00:23:12,502
Speaker 2: he moved there and why he encouraged Laurie and other

421
00:23:12,542 --> 00:23:13,582
Speaker 2: people to move there.

422
00:23:14,622 --> 00:23:19,222
Speaker 1: Not long after Laurie comes to Rexburg, something happens to Tammy.

423
00:23:19,822 --> 00:23:24,222
Speaker 2: Right, So in October twenty nineteen, she is coming home

424
00:23:24,342 --> 00:23:27,622
Speaker 2: from a meeting of the Relief Society. This is the

425
00:23:27,742 --> 00:23:31,302
Speaker 2: LDS Women's organization. And my understanding is that she was

426
00:23:31,582 --> 00:23:34,302
Speaker 2: going and prepping like freezer meals, so a bunch of

427
00:23:34,342 --> 00:23:36,382
Speaker 2: meals for the week where you could just pop it

428
00:23:36,422 --> 00:23:38,102
Speaker 2: in the freezer and get it out when you get

429
00:23:38,102 --> 00:23:40,502
Speaker 2: home from work and dinner's on the table. So she

430
00:23:40,622 --> 00:23:43,022
Speaker 2: had just gotten home, she'd just pulled in the driveway

431
00:23:43,062 --> 00:23:45,422
Speaker 2: of the day Bell House, gets out of her car

432
00:23:45,902 --> 00:23:47,942
Speaker 2: and there's a guy in all black with a mask

433
00:23:48,062 --> 00:23:50,542
Speaker 2: standing there and he starts shooting at her with a gun.

434
00:23:50,982 --> 00:23:54,582
Speaker 2: And her initial thought was to scream, but then later

435
00:23:54,662 --> 00:23:57,142
Speaker 2: she thought, well, maybe it was a paintball gun. I

436
00:23:57,182 --> 00:23:58,942
Speaker 2: don't think that it was. I think that it was

437
00:23:58,982 --> 00:24:01,782
Speaker 2: a real gun. And I think the conclusion that almost

438
00:24:01,862 --> 00:24:05,102
Speaker 2: everyone has made is that that was Alex Cox. And

439
00:24:05,462 --> 00:24:09,502
Speaker 2: she screamed she called for Chad and then what we'll

440
00:24:09,502 --> 00:24:13,462
Speaker 2: call Alex ran away, and she posted on Facebook and

441
00:24:13,542 --> 00:24:15,862
Speaker 2: just said, hey, neighbors, just so you know this, like

442
00:24:16,022 --> 00:24:18,302
Speaker 2: random guy came and shot at me with a paintball

443
00:24:18,342 --> 00:24:20,302
Speaker 2: gun and I don't know what to do with that,

444
00:24:20,422 --> 00:24:22,822
Speaker 2: but just letting you know. And it was a couple

445
00:24:22,862 --> 00:24:26,022
Speaker 2: of weeks later, you know, things normalized, She went back

446
00:24:26,062 --> 00:24:28,062
Speaker 2: to work. You know, everything is going the way it

447
00:24:28,062 --> 00:24:31,142
Speaker 2: would go. And then one night, all of a sudden.

448
00:24:31,302 --> 00:24:34,262
Speaker 2: There's a bunch of different conflicting stories here, but the

449
00:24:34,302 --> 00:24:37,622
Speaker 2: way her son tells it, the oldest Dave Bell child,

450
00:24:38,142 --> 00:24:39,702
Speaker 2: is that all of a sudden, he heard the thump

451
00:24:39,702 --> 00:24:42,342
Speaker 2: in the bedroom and Chad said, you got to come

452
00:24:42,342 --> 00:24:46,182
Speaker 2: in here, and his mother was half on the bed

453
00:24:46,222 --> 00:24:48,142
Speaker 2: and half off the bed, and it looked like she

454
00:24:48,302 --> 00:24:52,502
Speaker 2: was dead. Now, Chad has given several different accounts of this.

455
00:24:53,102 --> 00:24:56,662
Speaker 2: He has said that she's given that account. He's also

456
00:24:56,702 --> 00:24:58,702
Speaker 2: given an account that he woke up in the morning

457
00:24:59,262 --> 00:25:02,422
Speaker 2: and Tammy had died sometime in her sleep. You have

458
00:25:02,462 --> 00:25:05,622
Speaker 2: to remember this is a woman in her forties. By

459
00:25:05,702 --> 00:25:08,662
Speaker 2: all accounts, she was really fit, she was running. She

460
00:25:08,782 --> 00:25:12,022
Speaker 2: had just visited her face family back in Utah, and

461
00:25:12,342 --> 00:25:14,142
Speaker 2: they were talking about how she had taken like a

462
00:25:14,302 --> 00:25:17,982
Speaker 2: clogging class, like Hi Cardio kind of things, like she

463
00:25:18,062 --> 00:25:21,142
Speaker 2: was real active and you know, had a real busy

464
00:25:21,182 --> 00:25:23,102
Speaker 2: life and everything, and then all of a sudden, she

465
00:25:23,302 --> 00:25:26,422
Speaker 2: just died. And I think, you know, among the shocking

466
00:25:26,502 --> 00:25:30,222
Speaker 2: things of what happened around Tammy Dabel's death was she died.

467
00:25:30,782 --> 00:25:35,262
Speaker 2: And Idaho has this really unique thing where the coroner

468
00:25:35,462 --> 00:25:37,702
Speaker 2: came and asked, do you want me to do an

469
00:25:37,702 --> 00:25:41,142
Speaker 2: autopsy and the family said no. You know, a private

470
00:25:41,182 --> 00:25:43,262
Speaker 2: investigator I interviewed for the book said, well, that's a

471
00:25:43,302 --> 00:25:46,182
Speaker 2: really good way to cover up a murder. It's unique

472
00:25:46,182 --> 00:25:48,422
Speaker 2: and that's not how it is in most states. Idaho

473
00:25:48,462 --> 00:25:51,902
Speaker 2: has some pretty unique laws. So they didn't do an autopsy.

474
00:25:52,342 --> 00:25:54,702
Speaker 2: They shift her over to Utah, where she warn't to

475
00:25:54,742 --> 00:25:57,262
Speaker 2: be buried. She was buried in a graveyard that Chad

476
00:25:57,302 --> 00:26:00,862
Speaker 2: Dabel once worked at as a grave digger. And that

477
00:26:01,062 --> 00:26:02,942
Speaker 2: was that. It seemed like that was the end of

478
00:26:03,022 --> 00:26:03,862
Speaker 2: Tammy's story.

479
00:26:04,382 --> 00:26:07,902
Speaker 1: And he's my math correct. He bought. Two weeks later,

480
00:26:08,662 --> 00:26:10,222
Speaker 1: Laurie and Chad get married.

481
00:26:10,782 --> 00:26:13,942
Speaker 2: Yes, they do. Two weeks later. In my book, I

482
00:26:13,982 --> 00:26:17,062
Speaker 2: talk about how Chad's brother, Brad told me that at

483
00:26:17,102 --> 00:26:20,302
Speaker 2: Tammy's funeral, Chad pulled him aside and said, Hey, I'm

484
00:26:20,302 --> 00:26:22,982
Speaker 2: going to be getting married. And Brad was like, what

485
00:26:23,022 --> 00:26:25,782
Speaker 2: are you talking about. You're getting married, like your wife

486
00:26:25,902 --> 00:26:28,462
Speaker 2: just died. And he's like, well, you gotta, you know,

487
00:26:28,582 --> 00:26:30,702
Speaker 2: wait for a while. And he's like, I can't wait.

488
00:26:30,742 --> 00:26:33,422
Speaker 2: I need to get married now, and he said, don't

489
00:26:33,422 --> 00:26:36,662
Speaker 2: tell anyone. Don't tell anybody. So his brother was like,

490
00:26:36,702 --> 00:26:40,022
Speaker 2: what the heck is going on? And truly, two weeks later,

491
00:26:40,382 --> 00:26:43,662
Speaker 2: he and Laurie Valla were married on a beach in Hawaii,

492
00:26:43,782 --> 00:26:47,902
Speaker 2: so his second marriage, her fifth marriage, and there was

493
00:26:47,942 --> 00:26:50,262
Speaker 2: no one there. It was just the two of them.

494
00:26:50,702 --> 00:26:54,382
Speaker 2: They wore matching white clothing and purple flower lays around

495
00:26:54,422 --> 00:26:59,102
Speaker 2: their neck and these green malachite stone rings that they

496
00:26:59,102 --> 00:27:02,142
Speaker 2: had ordered off Amazon. And that was that. They went

497
00:27:02,182 --> 00:27:06,062
Speaker 2: home home to Rexburg. Laurie did not move into the

498
00:27:06,102 --> 00:27:09,782
Speaker 2: day Bell house. She stayed in her townhouse and Chad

499
00:27:09,862 --> 00:27:14,062
Speaker 2: Daybell his children, I got remarried, and they were all

500
00:27:14,222 --> 00:27:16,862
Speaker 2: very shocked by that news that who is this woman?

501
00:27:17,382 --> 00:27:19,942
Speaker 2: Our mother just sided You're telling us you just got married.

502
00:27:19,982 --> 00:27:20,702
Speaker 2: What is going on?

503
00:27:21,982 --> 00:27:24,302
Speaker 1: And something to remind listeners about at this point, is

504
00:27:24,462 --> 00:27:27,582
Speaker 1: that JJ and Tylie are missing this whole time.

505
00:27:28,142 --> 00:27:32,022
Speaker 2: Yeah, and no one knows. I mean, if the timeline

506
00:27:32,102 --> 00:27:35,262
Speaker 2: that everyone has determined is correct, the last time Tylie

507
00:27:35,422 --> 00:27:37,982
Speaker 2: was seen in early September. The last time JJ was

508
00:27:38,022 --> 00:27:43,302
Speaker 2: seen was late September, and you're right by November when

509
00:27:43,382 --> 00:27:47,222
Speaker 2: they are remarried, it has been over a month, almost

510
00:27:47,262 --> 00:27:50,902
Speaker 2: two months since anyone has seen Tylie and over a

511
00:27:50,942 --> 00:27:54,102
Speaker 2: month since anyone has seen JJ. And that's when Kay

512
00:27:54,182 --> 00:27:57,622
Speaker 2: Woodcock kind of comes into the equation because she calls

513
00:27:57,662 --> 00:28:02,622
Speaker 2: the police in Rexburg, Idaho, after getting into Charles Vella's

514
00:28:02,702 --> 00:28:06,542
Speaker 2: Amazon account and seeing that Laurie was using his Amazon

515
00:28:06,582 --> 00:28:10,302
Speaker 2: account to shift packages to, of all places, Rexburg, Idaho.

516
00:28:10,822 --> 00:28:14,422
Speaker 2: And she's like, oh my god, Laurie moved. She moved

517
00:28:14,462 --> 00:28:18,262
Speaker 2: to Idaho to this town. So she called the police

518
00:28:18,342 --> 00:28:21,822
Speaker 2: in Rexburg, Idaho and said, I haven't seen my grandson

519
00:28:21,942 --> 00:28:24,982
Speaker 2: since August when we were on a video call, and

520
00:28:25,182 --> 00:28:27,542
Speaker 2: can you go to this address and check. So they

521
00:28:27,582 --> 00:28:30,222
Speaker 2: went to the door, knocked on it and asked where

522
00:28:30,502 --> 00:28:34,262
Speaker 2: the kids were. And that's kind of where everything goes insane.

523
00:28:35,022 --> 00:28:37,302
Speaker 1: Well, that's, you know, what you would call a welfare chick,

524
00:28:37,942 --> 00:28:41,862
Speaker 1: and I've listened to that and when you know the background,

525
00:28:42,582 --> 00:28:45,542
Speaker 1: Laurie's lying. She lies to authorities.

526
00:28:46,142 --> 00:28:48,222
Speaker 2: She's so good at lying. Did you notice that, like

527
00:28:48,262 --> 00:28:51,742
Speaker 2: she she's so seamless. Oh no, don't worry about it.

528
00:28:51,902 --> 00:28:55,502
Speaker 2: This is all a big misunderstanding. JJ's just with my

529
00:28:55,622 --> 00:28:59,062
Speaker 2: friends back in Arizona. He's with my friend Melanie. She

530
00:28:59,182 --> 00:29:02,702
Speaker 2: has an autistic child too. You know, it seemed like

531
00:29:02,742 --> 00:29:05,302
Speaker 2: a believable story, And the detective said, okay, you know,

532
00:29:05,662 --> 00:29:07,382
Speaker 2: we'll give you the benefit of doubt. Just have your

533
00:29:07,382 --> 00:29:10,022
Speaker 2: friend give us a call and this will all be

534
00:29:10,062 --> 00:29:13,462
Speaker 2: taking that. We just need to get eyes on the kid. Well,

535
00:29:13,782 --> 00:29:17,502
Speaker 2: twenty four hours later, they hadn't. They hadn't heard from Laurie,

536
00:29:17,542 --> 00:29:20,502
Speaker 2: they hadn't heard from her friend. The police in Arizona

537
00:29:20,942 --> 00:29:24,342
Speaker 2: hadn't seen JJ, and so they went back to Laurie's

538
00:29:24,342 --> 00:29:28,182
Speaker 2: house with a warrant to search the property and whoof

539
00:29:28,382 --> 00:29:30,702
Speaker 2: she was gone. They didn't know where she went. She

540
00:29:30,742 --> 00:29:31,462
Speaker 2: had disappeared.

541
00:29:32,022 --> 00:29:34,622
Speaker 1: What else happened in that phone call? Because there was

542
00:29:34,742 --> 00:29:37,262
Speaker 1: the lie about JJ bang with a friend, which the

543
00:29:37,382 --> 00:29:41,262
Speaker 1: friend pops up and says not true. That She also

544
00:29:41,302 --> 00:29:43,982
Speaker 1: says something about where Tyler might be, and then she

545
00:29:44,062 --> 00:29:47,622
Speaker 1: says that Chad is her brother's friend or something along

546
00:29:47,622 --> 00:29:48,062
Speaker 1: those lines.

547
00:29:48,142 --> 00:29:50,502
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, right. So when the police went to her door,

548
00:29:50,582 --> 00:29:54,382
Speaker 2: you're right. They initially talked to Alex and Chad Davielle

549
00:29:54,782 --> 00:29:57,022
Speaker 2: and they said, you know, have you seen this little

550
00:29:57,062 --> 00:30:01,822
Speaker 2: boy JJ. And Alex said, oh, no, he's with his grandparents.

551
00:30:02,022 --> 00:30:04,382
Speaker 2: He's with his grandma Kay Woodcock. And they said, well,

552
00:30:04,382 --> 00:30:06,662
Speaker 2: that's not true. She's the one that called us, so

553
00:30:06,822 --> 00:30:10,422
Speaker 2: immediately got caught in a lie. They asked both Chad

554
00:30:10,622 --> 00:30:12,742
Speaker 2: Alex for Laurie's phone number, and they both said that

555
00:30:12,782 --> 00:30:15,502
Speaker 2: they didn't have it. So the police left and they

556
00:30:15,542 --> 00:30:20,862
Speaker 2: came back, and then Laurie was home and she, you know, said, uh, yeah,

557
00:30:20,942 --> 00:30:24,582
Speaker 2: JJ's with my friend Melanie gibb down in Arizona. And

558
00:30:25,222 --> 00:30:27,302
Speaker 2: they asked, you know, who were those guys. Well, that

559
00:30:27,422 --> 00:30:31,182
Speaker 2: was my brother and my brother's friend. And they said, well,

560
00:30:31,222 --> 00:30:35,302
Speaker 2: what's your brother's friend's name, Chad? He's a writer, they said,

561
00:30:35,342 --> 00:30:37,382
Speaker 2: you know, asked what his last name was, and you

562
00:30:37,462 --> 00:30:39,942
Speaker 2: hear the click. You hear it start to click for

563
00:30:40,022 --> 00:30:41,902
Speaker 2: one of the detectives. She says, his name is Chad

564
00:30:41,902 --> 00:30:46,662
Speaker 2: Babel and he says Daveill, didn't his wife just die?

565
00:30:47,142 --> 00:30:50,142
Speaker 2: And she's like, I don't know. I think so, you know,

566
00:30:50,222 --> 00:30:52,782
Speaker 2: kind of pleas dumb, you know, when you know what's

567
00:30:52,822 --> 00:30:56,222
Speaker 2: going on. Her and Chatter are already married at that point,

568
00:30:56,542 --> 00:30:59,062
Speaker 2: and Chad's you know, they're both faking it. They know

569
00:30:59,382 --> 00:31:03,302
Speaker 2: that they are very close to getting caught in something,

570
00:31:03,342 --> 00:31:05,822
Speaker 2: and they're trying to sort of weave this elaborate lie

571
00:31:05,902 --> 00:31:08,982
Speaker 2: about how they all know each other and what their

572
00:31:09,022 --> 00:31:09,742
Speaker 2: relation is.

573
00:31:11,022 --> 00:31:13,502
Speaker 1: So you mentioned that after this check they go poof.

574
00:31:13,982 --> 00:31:16,742
Speaker 1: I say, they go to Hawaii. What are they doing there?

575
00:31:17,782 --> 00:31:20,302
Speaker 2: It seems like they're on a honeymoon. I mean, it's

576
00:31:20,302 --> 00:31:24,062
Speaker 2: interesting because in December twenty nineteen, that's when the authorities

577
00:31:24,102 --> 00:31:26,702
Speaker 2: in Roxburg said, you know, we've got two missing children

578
00:31:26,742 --> 00:31:29,262
Speaker 2: on our hands, and they did an amber alert. They

579
00:31:29,342 --> 00:31:31,382
Speaker 2: you know, did a press conference and said, you know,

580
00:31:31,502 --> 00:31:34,262
Speaker 2: keep an eye out for these two people, Chad Dabo

581
00:31:34,342 --> 00:31:37,022
Speaker 2: and Marivello. We have no idea where they are. And

582
00:31:37,062 --> 00:31:39,502
Speaker 2: that's when people started to speculate that it had something

583
00:31:39,502 --> 00:31:42,662
Speaker 2: to do with her religious beliefs, that their disappearance might

584
00:31:42,702 --> 00:31:45,862
Speaker 2: have had something with their fringe Mormon beliefs. So that's

585
00:31:45,902 --> 00:31:48,182
Speaker 2: kind of when I started paying attention because I'm thinking,

586
00:31:48,302 --> 00:31:50,582
Speaker 2: are they survivalists? Like, are they in some kind of

587
00:31:51,062 --> 00:31:53,982
Speaker 2: bunker somewhere with a bunch of guns and a bunch

588
00:31:54,022 --> 00:31:57,182
Speaker 2: of canned food waiting out the apocalypse. What is just

589
00:31:57,222 --> 00:32:00,182
Speaker 2: so crazy about that is that they were the exact opposite.

590
00:32:00,222 --> 00:32:04,022
Speaker 2: They were in this fancy condo that they had rented

591
00:32:04,102 --> 00:32:08,982
Speaker 2: in Hawaii that overlooked a golf course. And finally it

592
00:32:09,022 --> 00:32:12,102
Speaker 2: took months to track them down there. But when the

593
00:32:12,262 --> 00:32:16,542
Speaker 2: FBI and authorities in Hawaii and Idaho went and arrested them,

594
00:32:16,622 --> 00:32:20,582
Speaker 2: it was February and there was no evidence that JJ

595
00:32:20,702 --> 00:32:22,222
Speaker 2: and Tyley had ever been there.

596
00:32:22,822 --> 00:32:24,862
Speaker 1: There are a few things that happened before that that

597
00:32:24,902 --> 00:32:30,902
Speaker 1: I want to touch on. One Alex passes away right watch.

598
00:32:30,782 --> 00:32:36,102
Speaker 2: How good question? I mean, it's the number of bodies.

599
00:32:36,142 --> 00:32:39,782
Speaker 2: I mean, I've been a reporter for almost twenty years

600
00:32:39,822 --> 00:32:42,022
Speaker 2: and I have never written this story where there are

601
00:32:42,022 --> 00:32:46,702
Speaker 2: just so many dead people. So in December of twenty nineteen,

602
00:32:47,622 --> 00:32:50,782
Speaker 2: a lot of things happen. Please say the kids are missing,

603
00:32:51,022 --> 00:32:55,102
Speaker 2: keep an eye out for them. Tammy Dabell is exhumed

604
00:32:55,622 --> 00:32:59,622
Speaker 2: by authorities in Utah because at that point, people are like,

605
00:32:59,782 --> 00:33:03,662
Speaker 2: hang on, this woman just died. People are getting really suspicious,

606
00:33:04,102 --> 00:33:06,182
Speaker 2: and in Idaho you don't have to say what a

607
00:33:06,262 --> 00:33:08,662
Speaker 2: cause of death is. But she was buried in Utah

608
00:33:08,742 --> 00:33:11,902
Speaker 2: and there are totally different laws. They exhumed her body,

609
00:33:12,502 --> 00:33:14,422
Speaker 2: did a bunch of tests, and put her back in

610
00:33:14,462 --> 00:33:18,182
Speaker 2: the ground, really before anybody knew it. The very next day,

611
00:33:18,622 --> 00:33:22,822
Speaker 2: Lori Vella's brother Alex, drops dead and it's a very

612
00:33:22,902 --> 00:33:26,302
Speaker 2: very odd thing. So he is in Arizona at that point.

613
00:33:26,422 --> 00:33:29,582
Speaker 2: He is in the bathroom of his new wife, who

614
00:33:29,582 --> 00:33:32,742
Speaker 2: he had been married to for two weeks, and was

615
00:33:32,862 --> 00:33:35,422
Speaker 2: also somebody that I would say was a follower of

616
00:33:35,542 --> 00:33:38,422
Speaker 2: Chad and Laurie, a woman that was kind of on

617
00:33:38,502 --> 00:33:42,182
Speaker 2: board with all their weird interpretations of Warmon scripture, you know,

618
00:33:42,262 --> 00:33:45,742
Speaker 2: talking about all these kind of wild ideologies that they had,

619
00:33:46,222 --> 00:33:48,822
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, I mean, you've probably heard

620
00:33:48,822 --> 00:33:51,982
Speaker 2: the nine to one one call. This woman's son called

621
00:33:52,742 --> 00:33:55,142
Speaker 2: the ambulance and said, you know, this man is on

622
00:33:55,222 --> 00:33:59,382
Speaker 2: my mother's bathroom floor and he's vomiting and there's all

623
00:33:59,462 --> 00:34:02,022
Speaker 2: kinds of phone coming out of his mouth. He's barely breathing,

624
00:34:02,142 --> 00:34:06,982
Speaker 2: and he just died. So it's interesting because nobody really knows.

625
00:34:07,062 --> 00:34:09,742
Speaker 2: I mean, the medical examiner there said he died of

626
00:34:09,862 --> 00:34:14,942
Speaker 2: natural but it was literally moments after he had been

627
00:34:14,982 --> 00:34:19,502
Speaker 2: exchanging text messages with Chad Dabell. It was the day

628
00:34:19,622 --> 00:34:24,742
Speaker 2: after Tammy was found. So it's yeah, it seems very odd, right,

629
00:34:24,982 --> 00:34:26,462
Speaker 2: The timing is very strange.

630
00:34:27,062 --> 00:34:29,262
Speaker 1: There's so many twists and turns in this story, yeah,

631
00:34:29,262 --> 00:34:31,662
Speaker 1: which I think is why everyone is so fascinated by it.

632
00:34:31,702 --> 00:34:34,222
Speaker 2: Right, saying that's what's Upian was like, what the heck

633
00:34:34,302 --> 00:34:36,822
Speaker 2: is going on? Here? Here's another dead body, here's another

634
00:34:36,862 --> 00:34:39,662
Speaker 2: dead body. What is the deal with these people?

635
00:34:40,862 --> 00:34:42,862
Speaker 1: So back to a few months later when police do

636
00:34:42,942 --> 00:34:46,462
Speaker 1: actually catch up with Laurie and Chad, but JJ's parents

637
00:34:46,862 --> 00:34:50,142
Speaker 1: get a judge to order for Laurie to produce the kids.

638
00:34:50,382 --> 00:34:53,662
Speaker 1: And that's how this kind of arrest situation comes about,

639
00:34:53,742 --> 00:34:54,062
Speaker 1: isn't it.

640
00:34:54,622 --> 00:34:58,062
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know when they found her in Hawaii, you know,

641
00:34:58,262 --> 00:35:00,782
Speaker 2: really all she had to say was like, here's where

642
00:35:00,822 --> 00:35:04,022
Speaker 2: JJ is. It's all good, But she wouldn't say anything.

643
00:35:04,542 --> 00:35:08,462
Speaker 2: So they extradited her back, you know, from Hawaii to Idaho,

644
00:35:08,582 --> 00:35:11,782
Speaker 2: put her on a plane and handcuffed in jail, and

645
00:35:11,942 --> 00:35:14,942
Speaker 2: you know, she had many, many months to say something

646
00:35:15,062 --> 00:35:18,942
Speaker 2: but said nothing. No one had any idea where these children.

647
00:35:18,662 --> 00:35:23,262
Speaker 1: Were, so she just happily sat in prison just yeah,

648
00:35:23,342 --> 00:35:25,102
Speaker 1: zipped didn't say it would yeah.

649
00:35:25,062 --> 00:35:27,262
Speaker 2: You know, and it's I haven't been inside the jail

650
00:35:27,302 --> 00:35:29,542
Speaker 2: where she was, like, I've been outside of it, and

651
00:35:29,542 --> 00:35:32,542
Speaker 2: it is this teeny tiny little jail like there is

652
00:35:32,782 --> 00:35:36,702
Speaker 2: so few people they can fit there. You know. It

653
00:35:36,742 --> 00:35:39,982
Speaker 2: was this tiny jail cell where she could go outside

654
00:35:39,982 --> 00:35:43,302
Speaker 2: into this little tiny yard like for a couple hours

655
00:35:43,422 --> 00:35:46,222
Speaker 2: or an hour every day, and that was it. I mean,

656
00:35:46,222 --> 00:35:49,102
Speaker 2: it was like, you know, she wasn't even seen trial yet,

657
00:35:49,102 --> 00:35:51,302
Speaker 2: but she was already sort of being subjected to like

658
00:35:51,342 --> 00:35:54,622
Speaker 2: a torturous lifestyle that you would think somebody that is

659
00:35:54,702 --> 00:35:57,542
Speaker 2: like would say, okay, you know, let me just tell

660
00:35:57,582 --> 00:36:01,462
Speaker 2: you what happened, But she didn't. She just sat in

661
00:36:01,502 --> 00:36:06,382
Speaker 2: her jail cell and read Mormon scripture and cleaned and

662
00:36:06,502 --> 00:36:09,582
Speaker 2: that was it. Like, I mean, she didn't break I

663
00:36:09,622 --> 00:36:10,382
Speaker 2: guess from what she.

664
00:36:10,622 --> 00:36:13,742
Speaker 1: Believed was Chad arrested at this point when they got

665
00:36:13,742 --> 00:36:16,502
Speaker 1: expired back No, so he was just living his life

666
00:36:16,502 --> 00:36:17,062
Speaker 1: in Rexburg.

667
00:36:17,502 --> 00:36:19,462
Speaker 2: He was living his life in Rexburg. He was back

668
00:36:19,502 --> 00:36:23,822
Speaker 2: home at his house, you know, living with his kids, posting,

669
00:36:24,022 --> 00:36:26,582
Speaker 2: you know, on another Voice of Warning, which is like

670
00:36:26,622 --> 00:36:28,982
Speaker 2: a big website that he was a part of, just

671
00:36:29,382 --> 00:36:31,622
Speaker 2: kind of doing his thing. But his new wife was

672
00:36:31,662 --> 00:36:33,942
Speaker 2: in jail. You have to imagine that they were talking

673
00:36:33,982 --> 00:36:35,942
Speaker 2: on the phone, you know, that he could call her

674
00:36:36,102 --> 00:36:39,182
Speaker 2: and that kind of thing. But she was extradited in February,

675
00:36:39,262 --> 00:36:43,142
Speaker 2: so that's four months that he was back in Rixburg

676
00:36:43,422 --> 00:36:44,982
Speaker 2: just sort of living his life.

677
00:36:45,862 --> 00:36:49,102
Speaker 1: So it's at that four months post arrest point. It's

678
00:36:49,222 --> 00:36:54,742
Speaker 1: June twenty twenty that police converge on Chad's property in Rexburg.

679
00:36:56,342 --> 00:36:59,502
Speaker 2: What do they find? So they showed up in the

680
00:36:59,542 --> 00:37:02,622
Speaker 2: morning and said, we have a warrant to search the property. Chad,

681
00:37:02,742 --> 00:37:05,502
Speaker 2: you need to stay on the property. And he went

682
00:37:05,542 --> 00:37:07,582
Speaker 2: and sat out in the driveway. So if you go

683
00:37:07,622 --> 00:37:09,462
Speaker 2: to the Dabo house, you know, you could sit in

684
00:37:09,502 --> 00:37:12,822
Speaker 2: the driveway and be able to see the backyard. And so,

685
00:37:13,422 --> 00:37:17,382
Speaker 2: you know, local police and the FBI descended on the backyard.

686
00:37:17,582 --> 00:37:19,422
Speaker 2: You know, they had dogs with them that were sort

687
00:37:19,462 --> 00:37:21,982
Speaker 2: of sniffing the ground and they honed in on two

688
00:37:22,222 --> 00:37:24,702
Speaker 2: areas of the yard. So you know, this is a

689
00:37:24,782 --> 00:37:28,262
Speaker 2: really rural place, so it's just sort of this massive

690
00:37:28,342 --> 00:37:31,142
Speaker 2: field and they had a pet cemetery where they had

691
00:37:31,142 --> 00:37:34,622
Speaker 2: buried some you know, passed away dogs and cats. And

692
00:37:34,662 --> 00:37:37,822
Speaker 2: then there was also like a fire pit area where

693
00:37:37,822 --> 00:37:40,382
Speaker 2: they could have like bonfires and that kind of thing.

694
00:37:40,462 --> 00:37:44,742
Speaker 2: So the dogs really concentrated on those two spots. And

695
00:37:44,822 --> 00:37:48,742
Speaker 2: in the pet cemetery area they unearthed the body of

696
00:37:48,822 --> 00:37:52,942
Speaker 2: JJ Vaalow. He was you know, duct taped, his hands

697
00:37:52,982 --> 00:37:55,622
Speaker 2: were duct taped together, he had duct tape over his face,

698
00:37:55,662 --> 00:37:57,902
Speaker 2: he had you know, it was really it was really horrible.

699
00:37:57,902 --> 00:38:00,462
Speaker 2: He was in his pajamas. But then in the fire

700
00:38:00,542 --> 00:38:05,382
Speaker 2: pit area they excavated body parts that they then had

701
00:38:05,422 --> 00:38:07,822
Speaker 2: to test and it proved to be the remains of

702
00:38:07,862 --> 00:38:12,382
Speaker 2: Tyler Ryan. Really really grizzly scene. I mean, in both

703
00:38:12,462 --> 00:38:17,302
Speaker 2: cases both are grizzly, but what Tylee's body was just unrecognizable.

704
00:38:17,462 --> 00:38:21,222
Speaker 2: So that was when Chad Dabel decided to you know,

705
00:38:21,262 --> 00:38:23,022
Speaker 2: he's sitting in his car, he turns his car on

706
00:38:23,142 --> 00:38:26,702
Speaker 2: speeds out of the driveway. The cops had this place,

707
00:38:26,982 --> 00:38:29,102
Speaker 2: you know, there were so many of them there. He

708
00:38:29,182 --> 00:38:31,782
Speaker 2: didn't make it very far. They pulled him over and

709
00:38:31,822 --> 00:38:34,502
Speaker 2: they arrested him, and that was his last gasp of freedom.

710
00:38:34,542 --> 00:38:35,822
Speaker 2: He's been in jail ever since.

711
00:38:36,742 --> 00:38:39,902
Speaker 1: How did the police know to go to that backyard

712
00:38:39,902 --> 00:38:40,662
Speaker 1: in the first place.

713
00:38:41,182 --> 00:38:43,022
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a great question. I think that there's

714
00:38:43,062 --> 00:38:45,302
Speaker 2: a lot of different things that'll probably come out in

715
00:38:45,342 --> 00:38:47,062
Speaker 2: the trial. But the one thing that we do know

716
00:38:47,982 --> 00:38:50,462
Speaker 2: was they started really doing a lot of forensic testing

717
00:38:50,662 --> 00:38:55,022
Speaker 2: on the cell phones of Alex Cox and Laurie and

718
00:38:55,742 --> 00:38:58,102
Speaker 2: you know, all the people are around them, but specifically

719
00:38:58,142 --> 00:39:04,222
Speaker 2: Alex Cox's phone hanged to a cell tower on the

720
00:39:04,342 --> 00:39:07,982
Speaker 2: day that Tyler Ryan was last seen after they went

721
00:39:08,022 --> 00:39:12,262
Speaker 2: to Yellowstone, and on last day that JJ had ever

722
00:39:12,342 --> 00:39:15,422
Speaker 2: been seen, so that I think gave them a lot of,

723
00:39:15,702 --> 00:39:18,862
Speaker 2: you know, clues. He also sort of remained in these

724
00:39:18,902 --> 00:39:22,302
Speaker 2: two areas for quite some time, so you know, by

725
00:39:22,382 --> 00:39:24,942
Speaker 2: the power of modern technology, they were able to like

726
00:39:25,062 --> 00:39:27,982
Speaker 2: really be able to be specific about where they were looking.

727
00:39:28,182 --> 00:39:30,702
Speaker 2: And so that is at least one piece of evidence.

728
00:39:30,702 --> 00:39:32,742
Speaker 2: I think that allowed them to know where to look.

729
00:39:33,582 --> 00:39:37,262
Speaker 1: So the kids' bodies were found in June of twenty

730
00:39:37,302 --> 00:39:41,262
Speaker 1: twenty and Chad and Laurie went charged until May the

731
00:39:41,302 --> 00:39:45,222
Speaker 1: following year. What happened in that time frame was that

732
00:39:45,302 --> 00:39:46,502
Speaker 1: just polace building evidence.

733
00:39:46,502 --> 00:39:49,142
Speaker 2: So I think so, I think so, I think I

734
00:39:49,182 --> 00:39:53,262
Speaker 2: think at that point everyone realized there are so many

735
00:39:53,302 --> 00:39:55,862
Speaker 2: moving parts here. So you've got the bodies of JJ

736
00:39:55,982 --> 00:39:58,902
Speaker 2: and Tylie. You've got the body of Tammy Daybill in

737
00:39:58,982 --> 00:40:02,902
Speaker 2: a totally different state, totally different jurisdiction. You've got the

738
00:40:02,942 --> 00:40:07,102
Speaker 2: body now of Charles Valow down in Arizona, not really

739
00:40:07,102 --> 00:40:10,062
Speaker 2: looking like a self defense case anymore. And then you've

740
00:40:10,062 --> 00:40:12,662
Speaker 2: got the body of Alex Cox. How did he die?

741
00:40:12,782 --> 00:40:16,862
Speaker 2: You know, you get these multiple jurisdictions. What I've found

742
00:40:16,942 --> 00:40:20,182
Speaker 2: over the years, it is like very difficult for those

743
00:40:20,262 --> 00:40:23,102
Speaker 2: to talk to each other and kind of combine evidence.

744
00:40:23,182 --> 00:40:28,142
Speaker 2: So my understanding is that police in Rexburg started then

745
00:40:28,222 --> 00:40:31,142
Speaker 2: going down to Arizona. They started doing interviews, They started

746
00:40:31,142 --> 00:40:33,582
Speaker 2: trying to get people around Chad and Laurie to talk

747
00:40:33,622 --> 00:40:36,222
Speaker 2: to them about what they knew. And I don't know

748
00:40:36,302 --> 00:40:39,102
Speaker 2: when that started. And that's another thing to your previous question.

749
00:40:39,502 --> 00:40:42,502
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if some of those friends started to

750
00:40:42,582 --> 00:40:45,822
Speaker 2: share information that also led to finding JJ and Tylee.

751
00:40:45,942 --> 00:40:48,182
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, it took about a year for

752
00:40:48,302 --> 00:40:51,062
Speaker 2: really any charges of weight because for a while, the

753
00:40:51,142 --> 00:40:54,542
Speaker 2: only charge that Laurie was facing was just failing to

754
00:40:54,542 --> 00:40:57,062
Speaker 2: produce her kids. It was like a misdemeanor, So it

755
00:40:57,102 --> 00:41:00,142
Speaker 2: was something that you know, it's serious, but it wasn't

756
00:41:00,262 --> 00:41:03,742
Speaker 2: like we're not talking prison time at that point. So yeah,

757
00:41:03,742 --> 00:41:06,702
Speaker 2: it took about a year and then the hammer dropped

758
00:41:06,742 --> 00:41:11,782
Speaker 2: and it was like conspiracy to murder, first degree murder.

759
00:41:12,382 --> 00:41:15,462
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, we're talking about our

760
00:41:15,542 --> 00:41:19,142
Speaker 2: prosecutors in Idaho going to make this a death penalty case,

761
00:41:19,542 --> 00:41:20,222
Speaker 2: and they did.

762
00:41:21,182 --> 00:41:23,502
Speaker 1: Can you take us through the charges one by one?

763
00:41:23,742 --> 00:41:25,062
Speaker 1: Who is being accused of what?

764
00:41:25,662 --> 00:41:28,942
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna try and get this right. So Chad

765
00:41:28,982 --> 00:41:32,182
Speaker 2: and Lourie are both facing charges of first degree murder

766
00:41:32,222 --> 00:41:34,822
Speaker 2: and conspiracy to commit murder in the deaths of Tylie

767
00:41:34,942 --> 00:41:40,502
Speaker 2: Ryan and JJ Vallo and Tammy Dabell. Laurie is potentially

768
00:41:40,582 --> 00:41:44,502
Speaker 2: also facing charges in Arizona for the death of Charles Valo,

769
00:41:44,622 --> 00:41:47,102
Speaker 2: but Arizona has sort of said we're gonna let Idaho

770
00:41:47,222 --> 00:41:50,022
Speaker 2: do their thing and get through with that before we

771
00:41:50,062 --> 00:41:54,822
Speaker 2: bring her here. There are also several charges involving I

772
00:41:54,822 --> 00:41:58,022
Speaker 2: don't know exactly what the term is, but Laurie was

773
00:41:58,142 --> 00:42:02,462
Speaker 2: using or is accused of using, like Tylee's debit card

774
00:42:02,662 --> 00:42:04,502
Speaker 2: and things like that. So there are some kind of

775
00:42:04,542 --> 00:42:08,862
Speaker 2: like financial you know things around ty Lee as well,

776
00:42:08,982 --> 00:42:12,182
Speaker 2: so you know there's they're very serious charge. I mean,

777
00:42:12,262 --> 00:42:15,062
Speaker 2: you cannot just call for the death penalty for anything

778
00:42:15,102 --> 00:42:17,982
Speaker 2: but conspiracy to commit murder and first murder certainly.

779
00:42:17,702 --> 00:42:22,342
Speaker 1: Or that Chad plays not guilty immediately. But Laurie's case

780
00:42:22,422 --> 00:42:25,702
Speaker 1: was put on hold for a while. Why was that it.

781
00:42:25,662 --> 00:42:29,902
Speaker 2: Was put on hold because pretty quickly after the ward's

782
00:42:29,942 --> 00:42:33,222
Speaker 2: death penalties started getting tossed around, all of a sudden,

783
00:42:33,662 --> 00:42:37,582
Speaker 2: Laurie was deemed to be incompetent. So what that meant

784
00:42:37,942 --> 00:42:41,022
Speaker 2: was was that she didn't understand the charges that were

785
00:42:41,062 --> 00:42:44,222
Speaker 2: against her, and she wasn't mentally competent to assist in

786
00:42:44,262 --> 00:42:47,182
Speaker 2: her defense. So obviously, like a lawyer needs their client

787
00:42:47,222 --> 00:42:49,022
Speaker 2: to be able to tell them, you know what happened,

788
00:42:49,062 --> 00:42:52,102
Speaker 2: you know, to be able to defend them appropriately. So

789
00:42:52,382 --> 00:42:55,902
Speaker 2: this is something that happens sometimes with death penalty cases.

790
00:42:55,942 --> 00:42:58,222
Speaker 2: This is why, like death penalty cases can take a

791
00:42:58,262 --> 00:43:00,982
Speaker 2: really long time to go to trial because oftentimes you

792
00:43:01,062 --> 00:43:04,182
Speaker 2: will see somebody all of a sudden they're mentally incompetent,

793
00:43:04,262 --> 00:43:06,102
Speaker 2: they get taken out of the jail, they get put

794
00:43:06,182 --> 00:43:09,702
Speaker 2: in a mental health facility, or they can be restored

795
00:43:09,742 --> 00:43:12,902
Speaker 2: to competence, see, so they can understand how to assist

796
00:43:12,982 --> 00:43:16,382
Speaker 2: in their defense. So she was in a mental health facility,

797
00:43:16,782 --> 00:43:19,142
Speaker 2: you know, in a completely different place in Idaho for

798
00:43:19,182 --> 00:43:23,142
Speaker 2: a number of months trying to be restored to competency.

799
00:43:22,862 --> 00:43:24,022
Speaker 1: And that ends up happening.

800
00:43:24,222 --> 00:43:28,182
Speaker 2: It does. She's daemed fit eventually, I mean it took

801
00:43:28,182 --> 00:43:31,662
Speaker 2: a while, but she was deemed fit and then they

802
00:43:31,742 --> 00:43:35,182
Speaker 2: finally were able to officially charge her of what she

803
00:43:35,262 --> 00:43:36,582
Speaker 2: also pleaded not guilty.

804
00:43:37,102 --> 00:43:39,302
Speaker 1: When are we expecting these trials to play out?

805
00:43:39,582 --> 00:43:42,542
Speaker 2: So right now they're scheduled for January twenty twenty three,

806
00:43:43,102 --> 00:43:46,302
Speaker 2: So that's a long time. I mean that's almost three

807
00:43:46,382 --> 00:43:49,382
Speaker 2: years from when they were found in Hawaii. You know,

808
00:43:49,502 --> 00:43:51,822
Speaker 2: it could still get moved, but I think that right

809
00:43:51,862 --> 00:43:55,622
Speaker 2: now there is a very very aggressive effort to see

810
00:43:55,742 --> 00:43:59,502
Speaker 2: justice for what happened and to really solve what happened

811
00:43:59,582 --> 00:44:03,102
Speaker 2: with Tammy and what happened, you know, what is known

812
00:44:03,302 --> 00:44:05,702
Speaker 2: by the police and by the prosecutors in Rexperts. So

813
00:44:06,302 --> 00:44:08,982
Speaker 2: it will happen in January twenty twenty three. Part of

814
00:44:09,022 --> 00:44:11,462
Speaker 2: the delay has been that they need to move the

815
00:44:11,542 --> 00:44:15,262
Speaker 2: trial from the rural community where Laurie and Chad are

816
00:44:15,262 --> 00:44:19,222
Speaker 2: both housed in jail and where they see charges to Boise, Idaho,

817
00:44:19,262 --> 00:44:22,782
Speaker 2: which is I want to say, five hours away, and

818
00:44:23,022 --> 00:44:25,742
Speaker 2: it's a much more you know, a larger city, and

819
00:44:25,782 --> 00:44:27,782
Speaker 2: they think that they can get a much more unbiased

820
00:44:27,902 --> 00:44:31,142
Speaker 2: jury pool there. So they're trying, you know, you get

821
00:44:31,182 --> 00:44:33,182
Speaker 2: the right to a fair trial, and the judge has

822
00:44:33,342 --> 00:44:35,062
Speaker 2: just basically said, you know, I don't think that they

823
00:44:35,062 --> 00:44:37,742
Speaker 2: can get a fair trial here because everybody knows the case.

824
00:44:38,582 --> 00:44:41,462
Speaker 1: Have Chad and Laurie said anything since being charged?

825
00:44:42,302 --> 00:44:45,862
Speaker 2: No, nothing, A notable amount of nothing. I mean I've

826
00:44:45,902 --> 00:44:48,822
Speaker 2: covered other federal trials, not death penalty trials, but other

827
00:44:48,862 --> 00:44:52,502
Speaker 2: federal trials where the people in jail will use the

828
00:44:52,582 --> 00:44:54,662
Speaker 2: media and say I want to do an interview. I

829
00:44:54,662 --> 00:44:57,142
Speaker 2: want to talk about what I know this is. You know,

830
00:44:57,182 --> 00:44:59,982
Speaker 2: I'm not guilty, and that it has just been utter

831
00:45:00,502 --> 00:45:06,502
Speaker 2: silence the only time anything has happened that felt and

832
00:45:06,782 --> 00:45:09,222
Speaker 2: I put like a heavy emphasis on it felt like

833
00:45:09,302 --> 00:45:12,382
Speaker 2: it was coming from Chad. Was a while back, as

834
00:45:12,462 --> 00:45:15,022
Speaker 2: Chad has sat in jail, his children did a big

835
00:45:15,102 --> 00:45:17,982
Speaker 2: TV interview with a news program here where they said

836
00:45:18,262 --> 00:45:21,262
Speaker 2: they all sat down with the reporter and they said,

837
00:45:21,382 --> 00:45:24,702
Speaker 2: our father is not guilty. This is a conspiracy. Somebody

838
00:45:24,742 --> 00:45:27,622
Speaker 2: did something to him, and you know, they really couldn't

839
00:45:27,662 --> 00:45:30,982
Speaker 2: answer for how dead bodies ended up in their backyard.

840
00:45:31,062 --> 00:45:34,062
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't look good, but it did really

841
00:45:34,102 --> 00:45:37,302
Speaker 2: feel like maybe one last gasp of Chad trying to

842
00:45:37,662 --> 00:45:40,702
Speaker 2: control the narrative in jail and get his children to

843
00:45:40,782 --> 00:45:42,742
Speaker 2: speak for him. That's my theory. I don't know if

844
00:45:42,742 --> 00:45:44,542
Speaker 2: that's actually true.

845
00:45:44,782 --> 00:45:48,142
Speaker 1: What about Tylee and JJ? For the people left behind

846
00:45:48,142 --> 00:45:51,662
Speaker 1: that did love them. The grandparents of JJ and Laurie

847
00:45:51,702 --> 00:45:55,142
Speaker 1: had another son. Were they given a proper goodbye?

848
00:45:55,822 --> 00:45:58,862
Speaker 2: No? I mean I think that Laurie has communicated with

849
00:45:58,902 --> 00:46:02,822
Speaker 2: her eldest son, Colby, who has been utterly destroyed by this.

850
00:46:02,902 --> 00:46:05,222
Speaker 2: I mean he was very close to his siblings and

851
00:46:05,942 --> 00:46:08,262
Speaker 2: didn't know that his family had moved. I mean, he

852
00:46:08,382 --> 00:46:10,062
Speaker 2: was grown up and out of the house and sort

853
00:46:10,062 --> 00:46:13,422
Speaker 2: of psued doing his own relationship and marriage, and you

854
00:46:13,462 --> 00:46:15,262
Speaker 2: know that all of a sudden, his mom vanishes, then

855
00:46:15,302 --> 00:46:18,182
Speaker 2: she's on TV. Then his brother and sister are gone,

856
00:46:18,262 --> 00:46:20,342
Speaker 2: and his head was spinning. I think just as much

857
00:46:20,342 --> 00:46:24,582
Speaker 2: as anybody, he has been really vocal about how much

858
00:46:24,582 --> 00:46:27,382
Speaker 2: it is just really destroyed him and He's really a

859
00:46:27,542 --> 00:46:30,302
Speaker 2: very religious person and has tried to sort of seek

860
00:46:30,382 --> 00:46:33,582
Speaker 2: healing through his spirituality for how he feels about his mother.

861
00:46:34,262 --> 00:46:37,942
Speaker 2: Kay and Larry Woodcock, I mean, JJ was their grandson.

862
00:46:38,222 --> 00:46:40,862
Speaker 2: I don't know that they considered Tylye to be their

863
00:46:40,902 --> 00:46:43,982
Speaker 2: grandchild too. And I think Tyley is unique in that

864
00:46:44,022 --> 00:46:47,022
Speaker 2: account because initially, you know, people didn't even really talk

865
00:46:47,022 --> 00:46:49,622
Speaker 2: about When the police went to Laurie's door, they were

866
00:46:49,702 --> 00:46:53,102
Speaker 2: asking about JJ. They weren't asking about Tylee. I don't

867
00:46:53,102 --> 00:46:55,622
Speaker 2: think anybody knew that she was missing. It was almost

868
00:46:55,622 --> 00:46:57,102
Speaker 2: like she was a little bit of an island on

869
00:46:57,182 --> 00:47:01,262
Speaker 2: her own. But Kay and Larry have been consistently, you know,

870
00:47:01,302 --> 00:47:04,342
Speaker 2: they live across the country, and they have been consistently

871
00:47:04,422 --> 00:47:07,182
Speaker 2: at all the court hearings that are major. You know,

872
00:47:07,262 --> 00:47:10,222
Speaker 2: they show up there, they sit there, they watch Laurie,

873
00:47:10,622 --> 00:47:14,982
Speaker 2: watch Chad, and they give press conferences and it's heartbreaking

874
00:47:15,182 --> 00:47:17,902
Speaker 2: to watch. You know. In the last press conference I

875
00:47:17,942 --> 00:47:20,342
Speaker 2: saw that they gave, Larry said, you know, we know

876
00:47:20,502 --> 00:47:22,702
Speaker 2: that justice is going to be served, Like we have

877
00:47:22,782 --> 00:47:25,702
Speaker 2: no doubt in our minds. The evidence is just it's

878
00:47:25,862 --> 00:47:27,262
Speaker 2: very stacked against them.

879
00:47:27,542 --> 00:47:29,582
Speaker 1: How are you feeling ahead of the trial because you

880
00:47:29,622 --> 00:47:32,542
Speaker 1: have dug into every corner of this story, do you

881
00:47:32,622 --> 00:47:35,022
Speaker 1: still have a lot of unanswered questions that you're hyping

882
00:47:35,382 --> 00:47:35,822
Speaker 1: come out?

883
00:47:37,222 --> 00:47:39,742
Speaker 2: Yes? I think I really want to know what the

884
00:47:39,782 --> 00:47:44,542
Speaker 2: prosecutors in Idaho and the detectives know about Tyler Ryan's

885
00:47:44,622 --> 00:47:49,542
Speaker 2: last days, about JJ's last days. That tripped Yellowstone is

886
00:47:49,662 --> 00:47:53,422
Speaker 2: very strange. I mean, they were taking family photos, you know,

887
00:47:53,462 --> 00:47:56,342
Speaker 2: they were taking photos of her, and then that night

888
00:47:56,622 --> 00:47:58,622
Speaker 2: is the night that they think that she was killed.

889
00:47:59,062 --> 00:48:02,742
Speaker 2: It's very strange to me. I want to know what happened.

890
00:48:02,942 --> 00:48:07,462
Speaker 2: I want to know more about Laurie and Chad's supposed

891
00:48:07,582 --> 00:48:10,062
Speaker 2: control of Alex Cox. I don't know. I think that

892
00:48:10,102 --> 00:48:12,462
Speaker 2: they're going to say that everything. They're going to blame

893
00:48:12,502 --> 00:48:15,902
Speaker 2: everything on Alex, who's dead and can't speak for himself.

894
00:48:16,422 --> 00:48:18,302
Speaker 2: I want to know more about that. And I really

895
00:48:18,342 --> 00:48:20,502
Speaker 2: I think the thing that anybody who's watched this case

896
00:48:21,062 --> 00:48:23,942
Speaker 2: wants more than anything is how the heck did Tammy

897
00:48:24,022 --> 00:48:27,342
Speaker 2: Davell die? Because the medical examiner in Utah has not

898
00:48:27,502 --> 00:48:29,902
Speaker 2: said what they found when they exumed her and they

899
00:48:29,982 --> 00:48:33,782
Speaker 2: did an autopsy, whatever happened there is under lock and key.

900
00:48:33,902 --> 00:48:35,542
Speaker 2: They have not said what it is. So I think

901
00:48:35,582 --> 00:48:37,502
Speaker 2: that's going to be the big reveal as if they

902
00:48:37,542 --> 00:48:38,222
Speaker 2: found something.

903
00:48:41,942 --> 00:48:45,102
Speaker 1: Lea Settilli knew everything there is to know about this case.

904
00:48:45,142 --> 00:48:48,062
Speaker 1: What an absolute joy it was for her to Lindu's

905
00:48:48,062 --> 00:48:52,102
Speaker 1: her knowledge in this complicated and horrifying story. When we

906
00:48:52,142 --> 00:48:55,382
Speaker 1: wrapped up our interview about Lauri and Chad's alleged crimes,

907
00:48:55,782 --> 00:48:57,982
Speaker 1: there were a few more questions I wanted to ask

908
00:48:58,022 --> 00:49:01,382
Speaker 1: about the couple's cult like beliefs that were the backdrop

909
00:49:01,462 --> 00:49:02,142
Speaker 1: of this case.

910
00:49:02,342 --> 00:49:06,422
Speaker 2: They believed that they were so pure that the law

911
00:49:06,542 --> 00:49:09,342
Speaker 2: didn't even apply to them, that they could really do

912
00:49:09,462 --> 00:49:13,822
Speaker 2: what they wanted because they were God's chosen warriors. They

913
00:49:13,862 --> 00:49:16,702
Speaker 2: were the ones that were recruiting the people to survive

914
00:49:16,782 --> 00:49:19,902
Speaker 2: the end of the world, so that gave them free

915
00:49:19,902 --> 00:49:21,262
Speaker 2: rein to do what they wanted.

916
00:49:21,582 --> 00:49:25,782
Speaker 1: That episode is available now exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers.

917
00:49:26,102 --> 00:49:28,142
Speaker 1: You'll find a link to that in our show notes.

918
00:49:28,902 --> 00:49:32,382
Speaker 1: True Crime Conversations is a mmamea podcast hosted by me

919
00:49:32,742 --> 00:49:37,222
Speaker 1: Jemma Bath and my executive producer is Geamoylan. If you

920
00:49:37,262 --> 00:49:39,502
Speaker 1: have a case you think we should cover next, get

921
00:49:39,502 --> 00:49:42,142
Speaker 1: in touch with us. Send an email to true Crime

922
00:49:42,342 --> 00:49:45,942
Speaker 1: at mammamea dot com dot au or join our online community.

923
00:49:46,462 --> 00:49:49,462
Speaker 1: Just search for True Crime Conversations on Facebook and make

924
00:49:49,502 --> 00:49:52,502
Speaker 1: a request to join. If you're looking for something else

925
00:49:52,542 --> 00:49:54,982
Speaker 1: to listen to, like and follow all of our Muma

926
00:49:55,022 --> 00:49:58,342
Speaker 1: Mea podcasts, which are currently bringing you Hot pod Summer

927
00:49:58,662 --> 00:50:01,782
Speaker 1: one hundred hours of Summer listens, from spicy conversations to

928
00:50:01,902 --> 00:50:05,142
Speaker 1: incredible stories, fashion, beauty and more.