WEBVTT - Inside The Fight That Ended Kyle & Jackie O 0:00:08.234 --> 0:00:10.953 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:16.553 --> 0:00:19.393 Hello and welcome to Mom and Mia out Loud. It's 0:00:19.393 --> 0:00:22.234 what women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the fourth 0:00:22.233 --> 0:00:24.074 of March. My name is Holly wayIn. 0:00:23.994 --> 0:00:26.394 Wright, my name is Amelia Lester, and. 0:00:26.434 --> 0:00:27.954 My name is Clare Steps. 0:00:28.674 --> 0:00:31.394 And here's what's made our agenda for today. In the 0:00:31.434 --> 0:00:35.074 middle of a dramatic conflict, why are there so many 0:00:35.114 --> 0:00:37.913 headlines about influences stranded in Dubai. 0:00:38.193 --> 0:00:41.793 I'm going to mount a vigorous defense for oversharing. TMI 0:00:41.954 --> 0:00:43.153 is back and. 0:00:43.593 --> 0:00:45.434 Is it the end of Kyle and Jackie? 0:00:45.434 --> 0:00:45.593 Oh? 0:00:45.754 --> 0:00:46.754 We have questions. 0:00:47.034 --> 0:00:50.593 But in case you missed it, has Jim Carrey been cloned? 0:00:50.954 --> 0:00:51.154 Now? 0:00:51.193 --> 0:00:55.154 I kept seeing headlines about his face looking weird, and 0:00:55.314 --> 0:00:58.034 I didn't care because I haven't thought about Jim Carrey 0:00:58.034 --> 0:01:01.234 since the mask, which for younger listeners was during a 0:01:01.273 --> 0:01:05.234 period called the nineteen nineties. But then I couldn't avoid 0:01:05.274 --> 0:01:08.114 this particular headline because in twenty twenty six, you know what, 0:01:08.274 --> 0:01:11.033 Jim Carrey probably has been cloned. And it's not even 0:01:11.034 --> 0:01:14.154 the craziest thing to happen today. Jim Carrey was in 0:01:14.194 --> 0:01:17.714 Paris recently receiving a prestigious award of which there is 0:01:17.754 --> 0:01:20.634 no other kind in France, and apparently he received the 0:01:20.674 --> 0:01:23.394 award by speaking influent French. But that wasn't even the 0:01:23.394 --> 0:01:26.034 strangest part of the whole thing. People thought he looked 0:01:26.074 --> 0:01:29.074 really different, and I'm talking really different. They were pointing 0:01:29.074 --> 0:01:32.953 out that this particular new Jim Carrey has light eyes, 0:01:33.034 --> 0:01:37.034 whereas real Jim Carrey has dark brown eyes. They were 0:01:37.074 --> 0:01:39.234 pointing out other like little bits of his face that 0:01:39.274 --> 0:01:42.594 looked very different. Even Megan Fox, remember her, She got 0:01:42.594 --> 0:01:45.594 in on the action. She said, I can't handle any 0:01:45.634 --> 0:01:47.714 more stress right now. I need to know if this 0:01:47.834 --> 0:01:51.994 is real. You and me, both, Maggie, you and me both. Fortunately, 0:01:52.394 --> 0:01:55.594 Jim's rep did come out and he confirmed that Jim 0:01:55.754 --> 0:01:58.714 has not been cloned, so we can all relax. 0:01:58.874 --> 0:02:00.914 That's what the rep of a clone would say. 0:02:01.674 --> 0:02:04.434 You're good, You're good. So are you? Are you a 0:02:04.434 --> 0:02:05.114 clone believer? 0:02:05.874 --> 0:02:08.954 Okay? The biggest source of confusion in this story for 0:02:09.034 --> 0:02:13.314 me is Jim Carrey in these photos and videos looks 0:02:13.353 --> 0:02:17.914 significantly less unrecognizable than most people in Hollywood right now, 0:02:17.954 --> 0:02:20.554 Like I was like, no, that's still him, that's still him. 0:02:20.634 --> 0:02:21.794 Does he look really different? 0:02:21.994 --> 0:02:22.394 Yeah? 0:02:22.714 --> 0:02:27.073 But I honestly think there are about twenty five other 0:02:27.154 --> 0:02:28.834 people we need to ask questions. 0:02:29.034 --> 0:02:31.634 You can't have like slightly longer hair to me. 0:02:31.874 --> 0:02:36.674 Clone wars. I think it's interesting because clearly what has 0:02:36.714 --> 0:02:38.634 happened here is that Jim Carrey and who knows of 0:02:38.634 --> 0:02:40.514 what period of time, because as you said, merely we 0:02:40.554 --> 0:02:43.594 haven't really been watching, we haven't really been paying close attention, 0:02:44.154 --> 0:02:46.394 has done a lot of things to his face, and 0:02:46.474 --> 0:02:47.354 what interesting some. 0:02:49.074 --> 0:02:52.274 Just that masks fun intended. 0:02:53.394 --> 0:02:56.754 But what's interesting to me is that this is really 0:02:56.794 --> 0:02:59.074 interesting how this is how we talk about men who've 0:02:59.234 --> 0:03:02.634 done anti aging procedures and surgeries, where he's like, there 0:03:02.714 --> 0:03:06.154 must be something strange going on, he must be a clone. 0:03:06.234 --> 0:03:09.554 Whereas the women who were doing this to your point, Clare, 0:03:10.634 --> 0:03:15.674 we're all like, oh, so sad, slash so amazing. 0:03:15.674 --> 0:03:19.194 Slash sire emoji, so tragic. 0:03:18.874 --> 0:03:21.754 But also go you. But like with the men, we're 0:03:21.834 --> 0:03:24.754 just like, there must be a scientific explanation. Yeah, I 0:03:24.954 --> 0:03:27.514 it says a lot about true the aging of men 0:03:27.554 --> 0:03:29.073 and women's differently. 0:03:28.714 --> 0:03:31.954 And we find it interesting and like an investigation, but 0:03:32.114 --> 0:03:35.714 not in the sense of has he had an upper bleft? 0:03:35.914 --> 0:03:39.474 Not that it's like is he real? Yes? 0:03:40.154 --> 0:03:41.274 Is he real? 0:03:41.514 --> 0:03:44.914 Whereas when it's a woman, it's a moral failing. It is, 0:03:45.034 --> 0:03:49.274 and if she hasn't changed her face she's utterly discussing, it's. 0:03:49.114 --> 0:03:52.634 A moral failing both ways, whereas he's just a puzzle 0:03:52.674 --> 0:03:53.354 to be sold. 0:03:54.034 --> 0:03:57.874 For over twenty years, Kyle Sandlans and Jackie O Henderson 0:03:57.954 --> 0:04:03.714 have been Australia's most commercially successful and most controversial radio duo, 0:04:04.234 --> 0:04:07.474 but on Friday, the twentieth of February, the pair had 0:04:07.554 --> 0:04:10.914 an on air clash that appears to have completely blown 0:04:11.034 --> 0:04:15.754 up their working relationship. Anyone who has ever listened to 0:04:15.874 --> 0:04:18.393 the show, which I will admit. 0:04:18.514 --> 0:04:20.794 Is me, let's be clear, this is a very Sydney 0:04:20.834 --> 0:04:24.153 based show. Yeah right, So although they're national in some ways, 0:04:24.873 --> 0:04:28.234 Sydney people in particular have an intense relationship with Kyle 0:04:28.234 --> 0:04:28.753 and Jackiet. 0:04:28.834 --> 0:04:31.433 It's kind of unavoidable that you've been flicking through the 0:04:31.513 --> 0:04:34.073 radio and you've caught a segment. So anyone who has 0:04:34.113 --> 0:04:36.794 ever listened to it will know that a fight between 0:04:36.834 --> 0:04:40.473 them is unsurprising. There are often headlines about one of 0:04:40.513 --> 0:04:43.354 them storming out for summer. It'll be like, where's Kyle 0:04:43.474 --> 0:04:46.234 He hasn't shown up for work for five days, or 0:04:46.633 --> 0:04:49.834 that Jackie stormed out, whatever it is. But this clearly 0:04:49.914 --> 0:04:52.394 was different because on that Friday show a couple of 0:04:52.433 --> 0:04:56.113 weeks ago, they were addressing the news surrounding Andrew Mountbatton 0:04:56.154 --> 0:05:01.713 Windsor when Jackie read out the ex prince's astrological birth chime. 0:05:01.594 --> 0:05:03.234 Which is an angle we didn't think of. 0:05:03.474 --> 0:05:07.714 I know, I'm disappointed. I'm actually really disappointed, and Kyle 0:05:08.433 --> 0:05:11.714 lost it and I want to play a bit of 0:05:11.753 --> 0:05:17.034 that exchange. Your fixation on this has made you almost unworkable. 0:05:18.154 --> 0:05:19.074 It's not that bad. 0:05:20.794 --> 0:05:21.674 You're not talking. 0:05:21.753 --> 0:05:25.154 I'm talking to that like that's not fair like, but 0:05:25.674 --> 0:05:26.674 it's actually true. 0:05:26.953 --> 0:05:29.273 But you might have done that in five minutes. 0:05:29.313 --> 0:05:32.474 But you're off with the fairies with where you no, no, no, 0:05:32.553 --> 0:05:34.394 tell me where I've been off with the fairies during 0:05:34.433 --> 0:05:34.674 the show. 0:05:34.674 --> 0:05:38.714 I don't have to I don't have to prove something. 0:05:38.393 --> 0:05:40.674 Listen to the program. 0:05:40.714 --> 0:05:41.593 You'll hear yourself. 0:05:41.993 --> 0:05:44.953 Just give me to be aware of what's really. 0:05:44.714 --> 0:05:47.713 Can I ask you, as a I think it's better say, 0:05:47.794 --> 0:05:52.593 seasoned listener of this show, how is this exchange to 0:05:52.753 --> 0:05:56.513 your ears different from all those past blow ups that 0:05:56.594 --> 0:05:58.873 you've mentioned have been documented in the press. 0:05:58.914 --> 0:06:01.753 So in a lot of ways it's similar. Like they 0:06:01.794 --> 0:06:04.193 do press each other's buttons, and Jackie does go, oh, 0:06:04.313 --> 0:06:06.553 Kyle like if you if she had a SoundBite, it 0:06:06.553 --> 0:06:08.914 would just be Kyle like, why are you doing that? 0:06:09.354 --> 0:06:12.193 But in this particular one, I think you could tell 0:06:13.034 --> 0:06:18.154 that she was genuinely offended and embarrassed that he had 0:06:18.193 --> 0:06:18.954 embarrassed her. 0:06:19.073 --> 0:06:22.434 And to me, the most painful bit of that conversation 0:06:23.513 --> 0:06:25.514 isn't in that grab, but it's the bit where he says, 0:06:25.714 --> 0:06:28.794 ask anyone in the building, everyone who works here has 0:06:28.873 --> 0:06:33.153 been talking about it, and anyone in any workplace. The 0:06:33.234 --> 0:06:35.674 idea that everyone in the workplace is talking about them 0:06:35.753 --> 0:06:38.473 is particularly vicious. 0:06:38.393 --> 0:06:41.273 And she says back to him, I would never say 0:06:41.313 --> 0:06:44.273 things like that about you, which is true because as 0:06:44.313 --> 0:06:46.914 a listener, there are many days where you're like, Kyle 0:06:47.073 --> 0:06:49.473 is phoning it in today, he didn't go he was 0:06:49.513 --> 0:06:52.993 recording from home, doesn't give a crap, and Jackie plays 0:06:52.993 --> 0:06:55.033 along because that's how you have to do radio. 0:06:55.274 --> 0:06:57.594 So do you think the distinction was a little bit 0:06:57.674 --> 0:07:00.553 that they used to kind of like ragging on each 0:07:00.594 --> 0:07:05.234 other personally within these boundaries, but in this situation. He 0:07:05.354 --> 0:07:08.033 started telling her why she was bad at her job. Yeah, 0:07:08.073 --> 0:07:10.434 and that was what was galling to her about it. 0:07:10.634 --> 0:07:14.074 Yeah, and that seems to be the line you don't cross. 0:07:14.114 --> 0:07:16.393 It's like he can comment on her appearance, he can 0:07:16.474 --> 0:07:18.834 comment on her love life, he can comment on her 0:07:18.874 --> 0:07:23.954 sex life anything, but actually her professionalism is one place 0:07:24.274 --> 0:07:25.754 that he doesn't usually. 0:07:26.114 --> 0:07:28.114 Happened immediately after that. 0:07:28.074 --> 0:07:32.274 When the news broke about Jackie walking out and not 0:07:32.634 --> 0:07:35.554 being on air. We talked about it in our meeting 0:07:35.594 --> 0:07:38.834 and we were trying to decide whether to cover it 0:07:39.074 --> 0:07:42.754 at that time because this kind of thing has happened 0:07:42.754 --> 0:07:44.114 a bit and we didn't know where it was going 0:07:44.154 --> 0:07:47.353 to end up. But then on Tuesday this week, ARN, 0:07:47.714 --> 0:07:51.554 the network therewith released a statement and it read, Jacqueline 0:07:51.594 --> 0:07:54.674 Henderson has given notice that she cannot continue to work 0:07:54.714 --> 0:07:57.514 with mister Kyle Sandalans. It went on to say that 0:07:57.794 --> 0:08:01.434 ARN has terminated their contract with her and she will 0:08:01.434 --> 0:08:03.674 cease to present the show, but they've offered her the 0:08:03.674 --> 0:08:07.354 possibility of an alternative show on the network. Then it 0:08:07.393 --> 0:08:11.233 went on to say that ARN have provided written notice 0:08:11.274 --> 0:08:14.994 to Sandalands that it considers his behavior during the segment 0:08:15.034 --> 0:08:18.713 an act of serious misconduct which is in breach of 0:08:18.754 --> 0:08:21.634 his contract, and he's been given fourteen days to remedy 0:08:21.754 --> 0:08:25.314 the breach and if it's not remedied, his contract will 0:08:25.354 --> 0:08:28.354 be terminated and for those fourteen days he won't be 0:08:28.393 --> 0:08:31.593 on the show. So the Kiss Breakfast Show, aka the 0:08:31.594 --> 0:08:35.874 most lucrative show in Australian radio, has been taken off 0:08:35.914 --> 0:08:36.914 air immediately. 0:08:36.953 --> 0:08:39.674 The reason that that is also such a big story 0:08:39.714 --> 0:08:42.594 too because again this is a Sydney radio show, but 0:08:42.634 --> 0:08:47.554 their national figures possibly because famously, when they sign this contract, 0:08:47.914 --> 0:08:50.434 it's the biggest contract in well in media, not just 0:08:50.474 --> 0:08:52.914 in radio. It's one hundred million. 0:08:52.634 --> 0:08:56.994 Dollars one hundred million dollars over ten years, so this 0:08:57.034 --> 0:09:01.154 is unprecedented money and that when they signed that contract 0:09:01.194 --> 0:09:03.274 it was quite public and it was a big celebration 0:09:03.394 --> 0:09:04.674 and it was seen as you know, oh, in the 0:09:04.794 --> 0:09:08.154 celebration for them, obviously not necessarily for the culture, but. 0:09:08.194 --> 0:09:11.514 It was a big celebration and seen as like, wow, 0:09:11.594 --> 0:09:15.114 this is the most lucrative partnership in Australian media, and 0:09:15.154 --> 0:09:18.634 no question is the most lucrative and she is, as 0:09:18.794 --> 0:09:20.714 Mia made the point when she was on No Filter 0:09:20.794 --> 0:09:23.674 the year before last the highest paid female in Australian 0:09:23.674 --> 0:09:26.074 media by a very long way. So this kind of 0:09:26.074 --> 0:09:28.514 paints a picture of why this story is so big 0:09:28.554 --> 0:09:32.114 because by blowing up this contract, as they have done 0:09:32.914 --> 0:09:37.474 obstensibly over this fight, they've blown up one hundred million dollars. 0:09:37.554 --> 0:09:38.634 And that's my question. 0:09:38.914 --> 0:09:42.554 Do we think that this contract blow up is about 0:09:42.554 --> 0:09:46.314 the fight or is there something else at work here? 0:09:46.354 --> 0:09:51.114 Either strategy on the radio networks part, Jackie's part, what 0:09:51.154 --> 0:09:52.274 do we think. 0:09:52.434 --> 0:09:55.314 You often get this in media, but there has been 0:09:55.434 --> 0:09:58.833 Like in January twenty twenty five, Jackie O did a 0:09:58.874 --> 0:10:02.314 Stella interview and she talked about the boys club in 0:10:02.434 --> 0:10:05.114 media that makes women feel like they don't matter and 0:10:05.754 --> 0:10:07.914 her talking about this stuff. It was kind of tied 0:10:07.954 --> 0:10:10.834 to promotion of her book, which came out late twenty 0:10:10.874 --> 0:10:15.354 twenty four. It is kind of the first time she's 0:10:15.394 --> 0:10:18.234 positioning herself as a bit of because she's in this 0:10:18.314 --> 0:10:21.714 partnership with somebody Kyle Sandalans, who is known to be 0:10:22.434 --> 0:10:27.194 absolute shock job, says awful things about women, and she's 0:10:27.354 --> 0:10:30.554 kind of clearly trying to separate herself from that. And 0:10:31.394 --> 0:10:34.474 then an in studio argument between Kyle and Jackie o 0:10:35.074 --> 0:10:37.754 seem to have happened in May twenty twenty five, but 0:10:37.954 --> 0:10:41.834 it was a similar conversation where Sandalans was criticizing Jackie's 0:10:42.394 --> 0:10:45.754 work habits and she stormed out and he kind of 0:10:45.754 --> 0:10:48.154 made fun of like, are you sure you're the full quid? 0:10:48.434 --> 0:10:51.914 Like is basically is there much going on up there? 0:10:52.514 --> 0:10:54.994 So there had been these little scandals that have sort 0:10:54.994 --> 0:10:56.794 of been going on for the past years, so I 0:10:56.834 --> 0:10:58.274 feel like it's been building. 0:10:59.034 --> 0:11:01.794 So to be clear too, when she wrote that memoir 0:11:01.834 --> 0:11:04.234 and she came into Mamma Mia and did two parts 0:11:04.274 --> 0:11:06.754 sit down with me or about that. We'd actually been 0:11:06.794 --> 0:11:08.274 trying to get her to come and talk to Momma 0:11:08.314 --> 0:11:10.914 Mia for a long time because, as I say, whether 0:11:11.034 --> 0:11:13.394 or not you approve of the Kyle and Jackie Oh 0:11:13.474 --> 0:11:15.914 Show and whether you approve of her role as kind 0:11:15.914 --> 0:11:18.314 of Kyle's chief apologist, which is a role she played 0:11:18.314 --> 0:11:21.954 for a very long time. She is a very significant 0:11:22.434 --> 0:11:25.994 media player. And when she wrote that memoir, she was 0:11:26.114 --> 0:11:28.274 very honest about the fact she'd struggled with addiction, that 0:11:28.314 --> 0:11:31.674 she'd gone into rehab in America for addiction to painkillers, 0:11:32.074 --> 0:11:34.274 that she'd been through, you know, over the course of 0:11:34.314 --> 0:11:36.154 two decades of working with Kyle. She'd been through all 0:11:36.234 --> 0:11:41.274 kinds of things, you know, fertility troubles, divorce, financial issues, addiction, 0:11:41.914 --> 0:11:46.473 and it was a very honest, frank kind of exploration 0:11:46.554 --> 0:11:49.794 of what that career was like to And obviously in 0:11:49.834 --> 0:11:52.914 the press for that, she is constantly asked, you sit 0:11:52.954 --> 0:11:56.074 next to this guy. Women hate this guy, although not 0:11:56.114 --> 0:11:58.234 all women hate this guy, obviously, but many women do. 0:11:58.874 --> 0:12:01.594 Aren't you enabling him? And one of the things that 0:12:01.634 --> 0:12:03.954 is obviously being speculated here is that for a very 0:12:04.074 --> 0:12:06.674 very long time she wore that and she literally sat 0:12:06.714 --> 0:12:09.634 there and in her book I've read a memoir, their 0:12:09.674 --> 0:12:13.514 friendship appears to be genuine. He also famously is the 0:12:13.514 --> 0:12:16.274 one who said will negotiate together anything I get paid, 0:12:16.314 --> 0:12:18.834 you get paid, which you know, she's always painted as 0:12:18.834 --> 0:12:20.634 a bit of a feminist move on his part, because 0:12:20.634 --> 0:12:24.074 he certainly didn't have to do that, And it feels 0:12:24.074 --> 0:12:27.674 to me like a sort of slow realization on her part, 0:12:27.834 --> 0:12:30.034 or maybe not a realization, but of that I don't 0:12:30.114 --> 0:12:32.714 think I can do this anymore. Yeah, you know, because 0:12:33.194 --> 0:12:37.314 I think that she has always been good for his brand, 0:12:37.474 --> 0:12:40.794 because she softens him, and there's always a kind of 0:12:40.874 --> 0:12:43.794 idea that well, if she's there, he can't really be 0:12:43.994 --> 0:12:46.674 a woman hating misogynist, even when he's calling a journalist 0:12:46.674 --> 0:12:48.594 a fat slag or he's doing one of the many 0:12:48.634 --> 0:12:52.154 other awful things he's done, whereas he's actually terrible for 0:12:52.194 --> 0:12:55.474 her brand, like he's brought a riches and fame that partnership. 0:12:55.914 --> 0:12:58.514 But it's always meant whenever we write about her or 0:12:58.554 --> 0:13:00.194 have her a Mama Mire for example, when she was 0:13:00.234 --> 0:13:02.114 on No Filter, will have a very large portion of 0:13:02.154 --> 0:13:04.874 the audience. They're probably thinking it and doing it right now, 0:13:04.874 --> 0:13:09.234 who go no, Like, she is not good for women, 0:13:09.274 --> 0:13:10.954 she's not a supporter of women because she's worked with 0:13:10.994 --> 0:13:13.914 that guy. And at what point do you get jack 0:13:13.954 --> 0:13:16.274 of that? And at what point is what was once 0:13:16.514 --> 0:13:19.954 joshing and fun and lucrative for you? Do you actually 0:13:19.994 --> 0:13:21.754 go nah? 0:13:21.794 --> 0:13:26.594 Because that's what was interesting listening to this exchange that 0:13:26.874 --> 0:13:29.953 clearly upset her and he's taking a dig at her 0:13:29.994 --> 0:13:32.874 work ethic and how she's become obsessed with astrology, and 0:13:32.914 --> 0:13:36.794 it's derailing the show. As a listener, you're thinking derailing 0:13:36.834 --> 0:13:37.354 the show? 0:13:37.714 --> 0:13:38.114 Dude? 0:13:38.194 --> 0:13:42.594 Do you know how many times you have had advertisers 0:13:42.674 --> 0:13:46.274 pull out of the show have had us cautioned and 0:13:47.274 --> 0:13:51.794 warned and suspended and got us in massive hot water. 0:13:52.354 --> 0:13:53.994 And she's sat there and. 0:13:53.954 --> 0:13:56.314 She famously have to have a sensor in the room 0:13:56.474 --> 0:13:56.954 saw him. 0:13:57.234 --> 0:13:59.314 Yeah, and think about what they could be talking about 0:13:59.394 --> 0:14:02.914 if they weren't talking about astrology. It's such a missed opportunity. 0:14:03.634 --> 0:14:06.514 But just on the astrology point for a minute. I 0:14:06.594 --> 0:14:09.314 think one of the most relatable parts of this story 0:14:09.354 --> 0:14:12.354 about people earning one hundred million dollars for talking on 0:14:12.394 --> 0:14:17.194 the radio is that every woman goes through a phase 0:14:17.274 --> 0:14:20.394 where she is obsessed with astrology. It happens to all 0:14:20.434 --> 0:14:22.994 of us. I know what happened to me, and it 0:14:23.154 --> 0:14:27.554 typically coincides. I'm not speculating about anything in Jackie's life. 0:14:27.994 --> 0:14:32.994 I'm noticing that anecdotally, it coincides with going through a 0:14:33.034 --> 0:14:35.394 bit of a reckoning in your personal life, a bit 0:14:35.434 --> 0:14:37.954 of a moment where you don't quite know where you're going. 0:14:38.394 --> 0:14:41.714 You might feel a little bit lost, and looking to 0:14:41.794 --> 0:14:45.714 the stars helps you feel a sense of confidence and 0:14:45.754 --> 0:14:48.714 control that you don't otherwise have. I went through a 0:14:48.714 --> 0:14:51.674 phase where I was paying for an app which told 0:14:51.714 --> 0:14:54.594 me what the stars had in store for me that day. 0:14:55.114 --> 0:14:58.114 It is really relatable because when you have that friend 0:14:58.194 --> 0:15:00.474 who's gone down that rabbit hole, it's a sort of 0:15:00.514 --> 0:15:03.594 thing where it's so interesting to them and it's so 0:15:03.754 --> 0:15:07.354 boring to everyone else. Yes, because you don't understand any 0:15:07.394 --> 0:15:09.514 of like a birth chart in your head, you're. 0:15:09.394 --> 0:15:10.834 Like, hey, but that's absolute bullshit. 0:15:10.874 --> 0:15:13.074 It's made up. There's no such thing like you're thinking that. 0:15:13.194 --> 0:15:15.394 Well, remember they came out with that science a couple 0:15:15.434 --> 0:15:17.914 of years ago. It said, we actually are all saying 0:15:17.954 --> 0:15:20.554 that we're the wrong star signed because they've done the 0:15:20.554 --> 0:15:22.394 calculations and it's changed. 0:15:22.634 --> 0:15:25.354 So and if you're earning one hundred million, you could 0:15:25.394 --> 0:15:29.434 probably have an astrologer on Speedaley if you would like. Also, 0:15:29.554 --> 0:15:32.954 Jackie is just turned fifties, turn fifty last year. I mean, 0:15:33.074 --> 0:15:35.274 I know this is maybe a generous take. The woman 0:15:35.314 --> 0:15:37.394 doesn't need the money. Let's be honest. She's been earning 0:15:37.514 --> 0:15:39.874 very very good money for a really long time. And 0:15:39.914 --> 0:15:43.914 I think that if as is being speculated, that a 0:15:43.954 --> 0:15:46.434 lot of what she's put up with in that studio, 0:15:46.514 --> 0:15:50.754 in terms of the just joking from Kyle, does get 0:15:50.794 --> 0:15:53.074 to a point where you're just like, no, Like, there 0:15:53.074 --> 0:15:56.274 have been toxic work relationships in my life over the 0:15:56.474 --> 0:16:00.034 years and in previous jobs where you have a dynamic 0:16:00.834 --> 0:16:03.994 that you're willing to put up with because it's fun 0:16:04.194 --> 0:16:07.954 and it's working, but it can very easy tip over 0:16:08.674 --> 0:16:11.314 into something much more serious, depending on how you're feeling 0:16:11.314 --> 0:16:14.674 about yourself, depending on your position, and if you're fifty one. Also, 0:16:14.754 --> 0:16:17.474 twenty five years is a very long time to work 0:16:17.474 --> 0:16:20.034 with somebody. I wonder it's like a marriage. 0:16:20.154 --> 0:16:22.874 Yeah, it really is. And I wonder the other thing 0:16:22.914 --> 0:16:25.594 I kind of think I heard when I was listening 0:16:25.674 --> 0:16:29.634 to this. Jackie has in terms of her brand, gone 0:16:29.794 --> 0:16:33.874 through a bit of a metamorphosis over the last couple 0:16:33.914 --> 0:16:36.634 of years, coming out about this addiction, that nobody had 0:16:36.674 --> 0:16:40.754 any idea about being incredibly vulnerable, about how she was 0:16:40.754 --> 0:16:43.594 showing up to work and what her life looked like 0:16:43.754 --> 0:16:47.954 at that darkest, darkest moment. And I wonder when Kyle's 0:16:47.994 --> 0:16:50.234 having a dig about her being off with the fairies, 0:16:50.714 --> 0:16:54.354 about her not doing her job, and everyone's talking about her, 0:16:54.954 --> 0:16:57.714 I think it kind of presses on a bruise for her. 0:16:57.954 --> 0:17:01.314 It's not just like a funny haha, a dopey Jackie, 0:17:01.314 --> 0:17:05.434 dopey Jackie. It's actually that is my core vulnerability that 0:17:05.474 --> 0:17:08.874 I've shared with the world and you are pressing on it. 0:17:09.074 --> 0:17:11.954 She also has another business going on right with her 0:17:12.154 --> 0:17:15.914 best friend and manager, Jemma O'Neil, and they have a 0:17:15.914 --> 0:17:18.194 business together called Besties and they do sort of events 0:17:18.234 --> 0:17:21.634 and trips and they bring out speakers to Australia. And 0:17:21.674 --> 0:17:24.834 that's clearly when she started that around the same time 0:17:24.834 --> 0:17:27.434 as the memoir, it all began to feel like next 0:17:27.554 --> 0:17:30.793 acts and stuff. And again, as I sort of said before, 0:17:31.234 --> 0:17:33.274 one of the problems with her being able to move 0:17:33.314 --> 0:17:35.634 into whatever her next act is is He's always an 0:17:35.634 --> 0:17:39.834 albatross there, not in terms of finance and success, but 0:17:39.954 --> 0:17:44.954 in terms of a happy, positive, female focused brand. It 0:17:45.234 --> 0:17:48.594 just is a clash that is not gonna work. 0:17:48.594 --> 0:17:54.194 And in terms of where they are professionally. I have 0:17:54.354 --> 0:17:57.553 always found it a little bit funny that so with 0:17:57.674 --> 0:18:00.754 this new one hundred million dollar contract, they went on 0:18:00.794 --> 0:18:02.634 air in Melbourne and it didn't work. 0:18:02.954 --> 0:18:03.714 Hasn't worked at all. 0:18:03.754 --> 0:18:06.074 Everyone in Melbourne was like, absolutely not. And I just 0:18:06.074 --> 0:18:07.834 think that is the biggest if they're just. 0:18:07.994 --> 0:18:11.994 Ordering their like fancy types of expresso dress and saying 0:18:11.994 --> 0:18:15.354 we don't have time for Trady versus Lady, which he 0:18:15.434 --> 0:18:16.754 told me is a segment on the. 0:18:16.714 --> 0:18:19.714 Show I was explaining to Amelia Trady versus lady, and 0:18:19.874 --> 0:18:22.194 Amelia was like, is that because a trade can't be 0:18:22.234 --> 0:18:25.834 a lady? And I said, yes, man, you've got it. 0:18:27.154 --> 0:18:29.273 Are always very smug about their rejection of Kyle and 0:18:29.394 --> 0:18:31.954 Jackie Hoe, and I think there is something to be 0:18:31.994 --> 0:18:35.114 proud of there. But at the same time, and I 0:18:35.194 --> 0:18:38.234 know this is an unpopular opinion, but the reason that 0:18:38.314 --> 0:18:40.513 they make all that money is because they bring in 0:18:40.554 --> 0:18:43.033 all the advertising. And what that tells you is that 0:18:43.074 --> 0:18:45.513 there is an enormous audience what they do, and maybe 0:18:45.514 --> 0:18:48.354 the audience is fragmenting and changing now and that the 0:18:48.434 --> 0:18:51.154 peak has passed, right. I mean, you could totally see 0:18:51.154 --> 0:18:53.874 a world where Kyle is now podcast king being a 0:18:53.954 --> 0:18:58.114 Joe Rogany type following his mate Kyl. But it's like 0:18:58.674 --> 0:19:00.513 they spoke to a lot of people, a lot of 0:19:00.554 --> 0:19:03.834 a really diverse audience that a lot of media wasn't 0:19:03.874 --> 0:19:06.073 speaking to for a really long time. And whatever you 0:19:06.114 --> 0:19:08.833 think about that, it's impressive. 0:19:08.754 --> 0:19:09.394 In a moment. 0:19:09.594 --> 0:19:19.394 Why TMI is actually a Okay, hello out loud as 0:19:19.394 --> 0:19:22.954 it's Mia and yesterday, what did we talk about on 0:19:22.994 --> 0:19:26.194 our subscriber episode. Well, I'm so glad you asked, because 0:19:26.194 --> 0:19:29.394 Amelia and I did a part two of our conversation 0:19:29.674 --> 0:19:34.394 about c BK and JFK and the story of Well 0:19:34.474 --> 0:19:37.314 the Love Story, which is the show that Ryan Murphy 0:19:37.314 --> 0:19:42.074 made about their doomed relationship. If you're not already a subscriber, 0:19:42.194 --> 0:19:44.194 please follow the link in the show notes to get 0:19:44.234 --> 0:19:46.634 out loud in your ears five days a week and 0:19:46.714 --> 0:19:48.394 you can listen to us right now. 0:19:52.034 --> 0:19:55.354 So oversharing is generally seen as I think we can 0:19:55.394 --> 0:19:58.714 say a bad thing. Think of some of the classic oversharers. 0:19:58.714 --> 0:20:02.754 Prince Harry, in his book Spare talks about his frostbitten penis, 0:20:02.834 --> 0:20:05.034 which he solved with Elizabeth. 0:20:04.634 --> 0:20:05.594 Arden eight hour cream. 0:20:05.954 --> 0:20:07.994 What doesn't it do again? 0:20:09.434 --> 0:20:12.674 Or think about the Norwegian Winter Olympian who at this 0:20:12.914 --> 0:20:16.474 Olympics desperately wanted to tell his girlfriend, who he loves 0:20:16.594 --> 0:20:19.833 very much, that he had recently cheated on her. In 0:20:19.874 --> 0:20:24.394 both these instances, you might ask why is this business? 0:20:24.674 --> 0:20:28.554 But a new book by a Harvard psychologist says that 0:20:28.594 --> 0:20:32.154 we would be wrong. In fact, oversharing is a kind 0:20:32.194 --> 0:20:35.394 of shortcut to intimacy. It's a secret power. It can 0:20:35.434 --> 0:20:38.994 benefit our love lives, our careers, our friendships, and the 0:20:39.034 --> 0:20:41.434 only catch is that we have to be vulnerable. The 0:20:41.474 --> 0:20:45.313 book is called Revealing the Underrated Power of Oversharing by 0:20:45.394 --> 0:20:46.154 Leslie John's. 0:20:46.754 --> 0:20:49.474 So Leslie says that you need. 0:20:49.234 --> 0:20:53.474