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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Mom and Mia out Loud. It's

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Speaker 2: what women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the fourth

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Speaker 2: of March. My name is Holly wayIn.

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Speaker 1: Wright, my name is Amelia Lester, and.

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Speaker 3: My name is Clare Steps.

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Speaker 2: And here's what's made our agenda for today. In the

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Speaker 2: middle of a dramatic conflict, why are there so many

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Speaker 2: headlines about influences stranded in Dubai.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to mount a vigorous defense for oversharing. TMI

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Speaker 4: is back and.

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Speaker 3: Is it the end of Kyle and Jackie?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 3: We have questions.

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Speaker 4: But in case you missed it, has Jim Carrey been cloned?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 4: I kept seeing headlines about his face looking weird, and

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Speaker 4: I didn't care because I haven't thought about Jim Carrey

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Speaker 4: since the mask, which for younger listeners was during a

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Speaker 4: period called the nineteen nineties. But then I couldn't avoid

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Speaker 4: this particular headline because in twenty twenty six, you know what,

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Speaker 4: Jim Carrey probably has been cloned. And it's not even

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Speaker 4: the craziest thing to happen today. Jim Carrey was in

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Speaker 4: Paris recently receiving a prestigious award of which there is

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Speaker 4: no other kind in France, and apparently he received the

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Speaker 4: award by speaking influent French. But that wasn't even the

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Speaker 4: strangest part of the whole thing. People thought he looked

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Speaker 4: really different, and I'm talking really different. They were pointing

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Speaker 4: out that this particular new Jim Carrey has light eyes,

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Speaker 4: whereas real Jim Carrey has dark brown eyes. They were

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Speaker 4: pointing out other like little bits of his face that

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Speaker 4: looked very different. Even Megan Fox, remember her, She got

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Speaker 4: in on the action. She said, I can't handle any

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Speaker 4: more stress right now. I need to know if this

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Speaker 4: is real. You and me, both, Maggie, you and me both. Fortunately,

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Speaker 4: Jim's rep did come out and he confirmed that Jim

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Speaker 4: has not been cloned, so we can all relax.

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Speaker 3: That's what the rep of a clone would say.

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Speaker 1: You're good, You're good. So are you? Are you a

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Speaker 1: clone believer?

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Speaker 3: Okay? The biggest source of confusion in this story for

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Speaker 3: me is Jim Carrey in these photos and videos looks

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Speaker 3: significantly less unrecognizable than most people in Hollywood right now,

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Speaker 3: Like I was like, no, that's still him, that's still him.

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Speaker 3: Does he look really different?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: But I honestly think there are about twenty five other

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Speaker 3: people we need to ask questions.

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Speaker 1: You can't have like slightly longer hair to me.

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Speaker 2: Clone wars. I think it's interesting because clearly what has

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Speaker 2: happened here is that Jim Carrey and who knows of

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Speaker 2: what period of time, because as you said, merely we

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Speaker 2: haven't really been watching, we haven't really been paying close attention,

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Speaker 2: has done a lot of things to his face, and

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Speaker 2: what interesting some.

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Speaker 1: Just that masks fun intended.

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Speaker 2: But what's interesting to me is that this is really

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Speaker 2: interesting how this is how we talk about men who've

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Speaker 2: done anti aging procedures and surgeries, where he's like, there

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Speaker 2: must be something strange going on, he must be a clone.

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Speaker 2: Whereas the women who were doing this to your point, Clare,

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Speaker 2: we're all like, oh, so sad, slash so amazing.

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Speaker 1: Slash sire emoji, so tragic.

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Speaker 2: But also go you. But like with the men, we're

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Speaker 2: just like, there must be a scientific explanation. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: it says a lot about true the aging of men

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Speaker 2: and women's differently.

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Speaker 3: And we find it interesting and like an investigation, but

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Speaker 3: not in the sense of has he had an upper bleft?

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Speaker 3: Not that it's like is he real? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Is he real?

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Speaker 3: Whereas when it's a woman, it's a moral failing. It is,

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Speaker 3: and if she hasn't changed her face she's utterly discussing, it's.

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Speaker 2: A moral failing both ways, whereas he's just a puzzle

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Speaker 2: to be sold.

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Speaker 3: For over twenty years, Kyle Sandlans and Jackie O Henderson

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Speaker 3: have been Australia's most commercially successful and most controversial radio duo,

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Speaker 3: but on Friday, the twentieth of February, the pair had

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Speaker 3: an on air clash that appears to have completely blown

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Speaker 3: up their working relationship. Anyone who has ever listened to

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Speaker 3: the show, which I will admit.

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Speaker 2: Is me, let's be clear, this is a very Sydney

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Speaker 2: based show. Yeah right, So although they're national in some ways,

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Speaker 2: Sydney people in particular have an intense relationship with Kyle

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Speaker 2: and Jackiet.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of unavoidable that you've been flicking through the

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Speaker 3: radio and you've caught a segment. So anyone who has

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Speaker 3: ever listened to it will know that a fight between

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Speaker 3: them is unsurprising. There are often headlines about one of

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Speaker 3: them storming out for summer. It'll be like, where's Kyle

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Speaker 3: He hasn't shown up for work for five days, or

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Speaker 3: that Jackie stormed out, whatever it is. But this clearly

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Speaker 3: was different because on that Friday show a couple of

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Speaker 3: weeks ago, they were addressing the news surrounding Andrew Mountbatton

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Speaker 3: Windsor when Jackie read out the ex prince's astrological birth chime.

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Speaker 2: Which is an angle we didn't think of.

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Speaker 3: I know, I'm disappointed. I'm actually really disappointed, and Kyle

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Speaker 3: lost it and I want to play a bit of

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Speaker 3: that exchange. Your fixation on this has made you almost unworkable.

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Speaker 2: It's not that bad.

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Speaker 5: You're not talking.

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Speaker 4: I'm talking to that like that's not fair like, but

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Speaker 4: it's actually true.

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Speaker 5: But you might have done that in five minutes.

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Speaker 4: But you're off with the fairies with where you no, no, no,

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Speaker 4: tell me where I've been off with the fairies during

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Speaker 4: the show.

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Speaker 2: I don't have to I don't have to prove something.

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Speaker 3: Listen to the program.

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Speaker 5: You'll hear yourself.

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Speaker 2: Just give me to be aware of what's really.

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Speaker 4: Can I ask you, as a I think it's better say,

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Speaker 4: seasoned listener of this show, how is this exchange to

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Speaker 4: your ears different from all those past blow ups that

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Speaker 4: you've mentioned have been documented in the press.

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Speaker 3: So in a lot of ways it's similar. Like they

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Speaker 3: do press each other's buttons, and Jackie does go, oh,

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Speaker 3: Kyle like if you if she had a SoundBite, it

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Speaker 3: would just be Kyle like, why are you doing that?

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Speaker 3: But in this particular one, I think you could tell

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Speaker 3: that she was genuinely offended and embarrassed that he had

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Speaker 3: embarrassed her.

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Speaker 2: And to me, the most painful bit of that conversation

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Speaker 2: isn't in that grab, but it's the bit where he says,

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Speaker 2: ask anyone in the building, everyone who works here has

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Speaker 2: been talking about it, and anyone in any workplace. The

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Speaker 2: idea that everyone in the workplace is talking about them

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Speaker 2: is particularly vicious.

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Speaker 3: And she says back to him, I would never say

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Speaker 3: things like that about you, which is true because as

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Speaker 3: a listener, there are many days where you're like, Kyle

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Speaker 3: is phoning it in today, he didn't go he was

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Speaker 3: recording from home, doesn't give a crap, and Jackie plays

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Speaker 3: along because that's how you have to do radio.

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Speaker 4: So do you think the distinction was a little bit

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Speaker 4: that they used to kind of like ragging on each

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Speaker 4: other personally within these boundaries, but in this situation. He

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Speaker 4: started telling her why she was bad at her job. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and that was what was galling to her about it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that seems to be the line you don't cross.

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Speaker 3: It's like he can comment on her appearance, he can

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Speaker 3: comment on her love life, he can comment on her

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Speaker 3: sex life anything, but actually her professionalism is one place

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Speaker 3: that he doesn't usually.

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Speaker 2: Happened immediately after that.

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Speaker 3: When the news broke about Jackie walking out and not

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Speaker 3: being on air. We talked about it in our meeting

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Speaker 3: and we were trying to decide whether to cover it

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Speaker 3: at that time because this kind of thing has happened

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Speaker 3: a bit and we didn't know where it was going

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Speaker 3: to end up. But then on Tuesday this week, ARN,

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Speaker 3: the network therewith released a statement and it read, Jacqueline

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Speaker 3: Henderson has given notice that she cannot continue to work

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Speaker 3: with mister Kyle Sandalans. It went on to say that

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Speaker 3: ARN has terminated their contract with her and she will

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Speaker 3: cease to present the show, but they've offered her the

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Speaker 3: possibility of an alternative show on the network. Then it

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Speaker 3: went on to say that ARN have provided written notice

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Speaker 3: to Sandalands that it considers his behavior during the segment

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Speaker 3: an act of serious misconduct which is in breach of

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Speaker 3: his contract, and he's been given fourteen days to remedy

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Speaker 3: the breach and if it's not remedied, his contract will

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Speaker 3: be terminated and for those fourteen days he won't be

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Speaker 3: on the show. So the Kiss Breakfast Show, aka the

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Speaker 3: most lucrative show in Australian radio, has been taken off

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Speaker 3: air immediately.

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Speaker 2: The reason that that is also such a big story

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Speaker 2: too because again this is a Sydney radio show, but

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Speaker 2: their national figures possibly because famously, when they sign this contract,

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Speaker 2: it's the biggest contract in well in media, not just

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Speaker 2: in radio. It's one hundred million.

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Speaker 3: Dollars one hundred million dollars over ten years, so this

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Speaker 3: is unprecedented money and that when they signed that contract

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Speaker 3: it was quite public and it was a big celebration

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Speaker 3: and it was seen as you know, oh, in the

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Speaker 3: celebration for them, obviously not necessarily for the culture, but.

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Speaker 2: It was a big celebration and seen as like, wow,

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Speaker 2: this is the most lucrative partnership in Australian media, and

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Speaker 2: no question is the most lucrative and she is, as

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Speaker 2: Mia made the point when she was on No Filter

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Speaker 2: the year before last the highest paid female in Australian

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Speaker 2: media by a very long way. So this kind of

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Speaker 2: paints a picture of why this story is so big

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Speaker 2: because by blowing up this contract, as they have done

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Speaker 2: obstensibly over this fight, they've blown up one hundred million dollars.

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Speaker 1: And that's my question.

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Speaker 4: Do we think that this contract blow up is about

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Speaker 4: the fight or is there something else at work here?

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Speaker 4: Either strategy on the radio networks part, Jackie's part, what

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Speaker 4: do we think.

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Speaker 3: You often get this in media, but there has been

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Speaker 3: Like in January twenty twenty five, Jackie O did a

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Speaker 3: Stella interview and she talked about the boys club in

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Speaker 3: media that makes women feel like they don't matter and

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Speaker 3: her talking about this stuff. It was kind of tied

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Speaker 3: to promotion of her book, which came out late twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty four. It is kind of the first time she's

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Speaker 3: positioning herself as a bit of because she's in this

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Speaker 3: partnership with somebody Kyle Sandalans, who is known to be

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Speaker 3: absolute shock job, says awful things about women, and she's

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Speaker 3: kind of clearly trying to separate herself from that. And

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Speaker 3: then an in studio argument between Kyle and Jackie o

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Speaker 3: seem to have happened in May twenty twenty five, but

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Speaker 3: it was a similar conversation where Sandalans was criticizing Jackie's

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Speaker 3: work habits and she stormed out and he kind of

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Speaker 3: made fun of like, are you sure you're the full quid?

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Speaker 3: Like is basically is there much going on up there?

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Speaker 3: So there had been these little scandals that have sort

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Speaker 3: of been going on for the past years, so I

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Speaker 3: feel like it's been building.

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Speaker 2: So to be clear too, when she wrote that memoir

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Speaker 2: and she came into Mamma Mia and did two parts

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Speaker 2: sit down with me or about that. We'd actually been

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Speaker 2: trying to get her to come and talk to Momma

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Speaker 2: Mia for a long time because, as I say, whether

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Speaker 2: or not you approve of the Kyle and Jackie Oh

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Speaker 2: Show and whether you approve of her role as kind

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Speaker 2: of Kyle's chief apologist, which is a role she played

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Speaker 2: for a very long time. She is a very significant

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Speaker 2: media player. And when she wrote that memoir, she was

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Speaker 2: very honest about the fact she'd struggled with addiction, that

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Speaker 2: she'd gone into rehab in America for addiction to painkillers,

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Speaker 2: that she'd been through, you know, over the course of

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Speaker 2: two decades of working with Kyle. She'd been through all

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Speaker 2: kinds of things, you know, fertility troubles, divorce, financial issues, addiction,

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Speaker 2: and it was a very honest, frank kind of exploration

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Speaker 2: of what that career was like to And obviously in

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Speaker 2: the press for that, she is constantly asked, you sit

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Speaker 2: next to this guy. Women hate this guy, although not

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Speaker 2: all women hate this guy, obviously, but many women do.

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Speaker 2: Aren't you enabling him? And one of the things that

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Speaker 2: is obviously being speculated here is that for a very

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Speaker 2: very long time she wore that and she literally sat

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Speaker 2: there and in her book I've read a memoir, their

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Speaker 2: friendship appears to be genuine. He also famously is the

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Speaker 2: one who said will negotiate together anything I get paid,

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Speaker 2: you get paid, which you know, she's always painted as

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Speaker 2: a bit of a feminist move on his part, because

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Speaker 2: he certainly didn't have to do that, And it feels

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Speaker 2: to me like a sort of slow realization on her part,

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Speaker 2: or maybe not a realization, but of that I don't

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Speaker 2: think I can do this anymore. Yeah, you know, because

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Speaker 2: I think that she has always been good for his brand,

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Speaker 2: because she softens him, and there's always a kind of

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Speaker 2: idea that well, if she's there, he can't really be

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Speaker 2: a woman hating misogynist, even when he's calling a journalist

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Speaker 2: a fat slag or he's doing one of the many

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Speaker 2: other awful things he's done, whereas he's actually terrible for

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Speaker 2: her brand, like he's brought a riches and fame that partnership.

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Speaker 2: But it's always meant whenever we write about her or

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Speaker 2: have her a Mama Mire for example, when she was

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Speaker 2: on No Filter, will have a very large portion of

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Speaker 2: the audience. They're probably thinking it and doing it right now,

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Speaker 2: who go no, Like, she is not good for women,

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Speaker 2: she's not a supporter of women because she's worked with

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Speaker 2: that guy. And at what point do you get jack

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Speaker 2: of that? And at what point is what was once

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Speaker 2: joshing and fun and lucrative for you? Do you actually

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Speaker 2: go nah?

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Speaker 3: Because that's what was interesting listening to this exchange that

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Speaker 3: clearly upset her and he's taking a dig at her

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Speaker 3: work ethic and how she's become obsessed with astrology, and

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Speaker 3: it's derailing the show. As a listener, you're thinking derailing

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Speaker 3: the show?

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Speaker 5: Dude?

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Speaker 3: Do you know how many times you have had advertisers

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Speaker 3: pull out of the show have had us cautioned and

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Speaker 3: warned and suspended and got us in massive hot water.

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Speaker 3: And she's sat there and.

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Speaker 2: She famously have to have a sensor in the room

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Speaker 2: saw him.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and think about what they could be talking about

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Speaker 4: if they weren't talking about astrology. It's such a missed opportunity.

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Speaker 4: But just on the astrology point for a minute. I

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Speaker 4: think one of the most relatable parts of this story

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Speaker 4: about people earning one hundred million dollars for talking on

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Speaker 4: the radio is that every woman goes through a phase

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Speaker 4: where she is obsessed with astrology. It happens to all

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Speaker 4: of us. I know what happened to me, and it

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Speaker 4: typically coincides. I'm not speculating about anything in Jackie's life.

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Speaker 4: I'm noticing that anecdotally, it coincides with going through a

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Speaker 4: bit of a reckoning in your personal life, a bit

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Speaker 4: of a moment where you don't quite know where you're going.

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Speaker 4: You might feel a little bit lost, and looking to

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Speaker 4: the stars helps you feel a sense of confidence and

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Speaker 4: control that you don't otherwise have. I went through a

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Speaker 4: phase where I was paying for an app which told

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Speaker 4: me what the stars had in store for me that day.

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Speaker 3: It is really relatable because when you have that friend

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Speaker 3: who's gone down that rabbit hole, it's a sort of

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Speaker 3: thing where it's so interesting to them and it's so

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Speaker 3: boring to everyone else. Yes, because you don't understand any

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Speaker 3: of like a birth chart in your head, you're.

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Speaker 1: Like, hey, but that's absolute bullshit.

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Speaker 3: It's made up. There's no such thing like you're thinking that.

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Speaker 4: Well, remember they came out with that science a couple

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Speaker 4: of years ago. It said, we actually are all saying

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Speaker 4: that we're the wrong star signed because they've done the

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Speaker 4: calculations and it's changed.

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Speaker 2: So and if you're earning one hundred million, you could

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Speaker 2: probably have an astrologer on Speedaley if you would like. Also,

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Speaker 2: Jackie is just turned fifties, turn fifty last year. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I know this is maybe a generous take. The woman

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Speaker 2: doesn't need the money. Let's be honest. She's been earning

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Speaker 2: very very good money for a really long time. And

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Speaker 2: I think that if as is being speculated, that a

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Speaker 2: lot of what she's put up with in that studio,

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Speaker 2: in terms of the just joking from Kyle, does get

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Speaker 2: to a point where you're just like, no, Like, there

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Speaker 2: have been toxic work relationships in my life over the

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Speaker 2: years and in previous jobs where you have a dynamic

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Speaker 2: that you're willing to put up with because it's fun

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Speaker 2: and it's working, but it can very easy tip over

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Speaker 2: into something much more serious, depending on how you're feeling

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Speaker 2: about yourself, depending on your position, and if you're fifty one. Also,

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Speaker 2: twenty five years is a very long time to work

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Speaker 2: with somebody. I wonder it's like a marriage.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is. And I wonder the other thing

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Speaker 3: I kind of think I heard when I was listening

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Speaker 3: to this. Jackie has in terms of her brand, gone

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Speaker 3: through a bit of a metamorphosis over the last couple

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Speaker 3: of years, coming out about this addiction, that nobody had

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Speaker 3: any idea about being incredibly vulnerable, about how she was

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Speaker 3: showing up to work and what her life looked like

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Speaker 3: at that darkest, darkest moment. And I wonder when Kyle's

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Speaker 3: having a dig about her being off with the fairies,

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Speaker 3: about her not doing her job, and everyone's talking about her,

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Speaker 3: I think it kind of presses on a bruise for her.

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Speaker 3: It's not just like a funny haha, a dopey Jackie,

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Speaker 3: dopey Jackie. It's actually that is my core vulnerability that

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Speaker 3: I've shared with the world and you are pressing on it.

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Speaker 2: She also has another business going on right with her

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Speaker 2: best friend and manager, Jemma O'Neil, and they have a

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Speaker 2: business together called Besties and they do sort of events

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Speaker 2: and trips and they bring out speakers to Australia. And

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Speaker 2: that's clearly when she started that around the same time

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Speaker 2: as the memoir, it all began to feel like next

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Speaker 2: acts and stuff. And again, as I sort of said before,

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Speaker 2: one of the problems with her being able to move

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Speaker 2: into whatever her next act is is He's always an

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Speaker 2: albatross there, not in terms of finance and success, but

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Speaker 2: in terms of a happy, positive, female focused brand. It

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Speaker 2: just is a clash that is not gonna work.

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Speaker 3: And in terms of where they are professionally. I have

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Speaker 3: always found it a little bit funny that so with

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Speaker 3: this new one hundred million dollar contract, they went on

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Speaker 3: air in Melbourne and it didn't work.

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Speaker 2: Hasn't worked at all.

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Speaker 3: Everyone in Melbourne was like, absolutely not. And I just

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Speaker 3: think that is the biggest if they're just.

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Speaker 4: Ordering their like fancy types of expresso dress and saying

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Speaker 4: we don't have time for Trady versus Lady, which he

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Speaker 4: told me is a segment on the.

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Speaker 3: Show I was explaining to Amelia Trady versus lady, and

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Speaker 3: Amelia was like, is that because a trade can't be

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Speaker 3: a lady? And I said, yes, man, you've got it.

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Speaker 2: Are always very smug about their rejection of Kyle and

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Speaker 2: Jackie Hoe, and I think there is something to be

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Speaker 2: proud of there. But at the same time, and I

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Speaker 2: know this is an unpopular opinion, but the reason that

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Speaker 2: they make all that money is because they bring in

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Speaker 2: all the advertising. And what that tells you is that

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Speaker 2: there is an enormous audience what they do, and maybe

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Speaker 2: the audience is fragmenting and changing now and that the

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Speaker 2: peak has passed, right. I mean, you could totally see

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Speaker 2: a world where Kyle is now podcast king being a

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Speaker 2: Joe Rogany type following his mate Kyl. But it's like

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Speaker 2: they spoke to a lot of people, a lot of

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Speaker 2: a really diverse audience that a lot of media wasn't

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Speaker 2: speaking to for a really long time. And whatever you

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Speaker 2: think about that, it's impressive.

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Speaker 1: In a moment.

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Speaker 5: Why TMI is actually a Okay, hello out loud as

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Speaker 5: it's Mia and yesterday, what did we talk about on

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Speaker 5: our subscriber episode. Well, I'm so glad you asked, because

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Speaker 5: Amelia and I did a part two of our conversation

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Speaker 5: about c BK and JFK and the story of Well

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Speaker 5: the Love Story, which is the show that Ryan Murphy

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Speaker 5: made about their doomed relationship. If you're not already a subscriber,

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Speaker 5: please follow the link in the show notes to get

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Speaker 5: out loud in your ears five days a week and

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Speaker 5: you can listen to us right now.

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Speaker 4: So oversharing is generally seen as I think we can

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Speaker 4: say a bad thing. Think of some of the classic oversharers.

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Speaker 4: Prince Harry, in his book Spare talks about his frostbitten penis,

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Speaker 4: which he solved with Elizabeth.

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Speaker 1: Arden eight hour cream.

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Speaker 2: What doesn't it do again?

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Speaker 4: Or think about the Norwegian Winter Olympian who at this

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00:20:12,914 --> 00:20:16,474
Speaker 4: Olympics desperately wanted to tell his girlfriend, who he loves

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Speaker 4: very much, that he had recently cheated on her. In

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Speaker 4: both these instances, you might ask why is this business?

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Speaker 4: But a new book by a Harvard psychologist says that

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Speaker 4: we would be wrong. In fact, oversharing is a kind

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Speaker 4: of shortcut to intimacy. It's a secret power. It can

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Speaker 4: benefit our love lives, our careers, our friendships, and the

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Speaker 4: only catch is that we have to be vulnerable. The

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Speaker 4: book is called Revealing the Underrated Power of Oversharing by

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Speaker 4: Leslie John's.

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Speaker 1: So Leslie says that you need.

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Speaker 4: To start sharing more in basically all situations. She says

402
00:20:53,554 --> 00:20:57,394
Speaker 4: at work, great dating, definitely people.

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Speaker 1: Who are married.

404
00:20:58,194 --> 00:21:01,714
Speaker 4: You have to keep talking about your feelings, which every

405
00:21:01,754 --> 00:21:06,154
Speaker 4: straight man loves to hear. So she has four steps

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Speaker 4: for sharing more for very private people. But before I

407
00:21:09,354 --> 00:21:12,154
Speaker 4: get to the four steps, I want to know what

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00:21:12,274 --> 00:21:16,114
Speaker 4: each of you feel about TMI. Are you oversharers, Claire,

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Speaker 4: Let's start with you.

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Speaker 3: I think I've become more of an oversharer. Jesse is

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00:21:22,994 --> 00:21:25,474
Speaker 3: definitely a lot more of an oversharer than I am,

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Speaker 3: which is yeah. So I think between the two of us,

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Speaker 3: I feel like I'm.

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Speaker 2: Not Are we defining oversharing is like really personal stuff

415
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Speaker 2: or sickness?

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00:21:35,354 --> 00:21:37,434
Speaker 4: It depends on the context, right, Like I think at

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Speaker 4: work and Jesse and I know each other primarily through work.

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Speaker 4: I would say the bar for what is TMI at

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Speaker 4: work is fairly low, meaning that anything to do with

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Speaker 4: your toilet habits, perhaps if your stomach is a little

421
00:21:52,994 --> 00:21:55,074
Speaker 4: bit in a difficult spot.

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00:21:54,874 --> 00:21:57,434
Speaker 1: Right now, you had a fight with your partner.

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Speaker 4: I think all of these things maybe not typically what

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00:22:00,954 --> 00:22:02,754
Speaker 4: you want to be sharing with people at work.

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Speaker 3: I've seen Jesse on stage at out Loud show and

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Speaker 3: seeing her maybe talking about sex or talking about sex,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, whoa, I never in one million years.

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Speaker 1: No sex. I think in general is considered overshare at work.

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Speaker 4: I mean you're British, like I assume that overshare for

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Speaker 4: you is like how you take your team.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone has a different line, don't they. Right, So

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Speaker 2: I don't think I'm an oversharer. But because my job

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Speaker 2: requires me to talk about myself a fair amount, people

434
00:22:38,194 --> 00:22:40,594
Speaker 2: will often say, oh, I can't believe how open you are,

435
00:22:40,754 --> 00:22:42,874
Speaker 2: and I'll be like, oh, mate, you have no idea.

436
00:22:43,194 --> 00:22:44,434
Speaker 1: Think I don't tell you.

437
00:22:47,194 --> 00:22:51,114
Speaker 2: I find it in a private setting. If I've just

438
00:22:51,274 --> 00:22:53,914
Speaker 2: met somebody and they go straight in with an overshare,

439
00:22:53,954 --> 00:22:56,553
Speaker 2: I know some women love that. I can't say that

440
00:22:56,594 --> 00:22:56,794
Speaker 2: I do.

441
00:22:57,154 --> 00:22:59,314
Speaker 1: So can we talk about me for a little bit?

442
00:22:59,394 --> 00:23:02,114
Speaker 2: Please? Do I think that you're a very private Yes?

443
00:23:02,234 --> 00:23:04,114
Speaker 4: You said this to me in the prep and I

444
00:23:04,194 --> 00:23:08,074
Speaker 4: was fascinated because I think I'm I'm actually a very

445
00:23:08,074 --> 00:23:11,394
Speaker 4: frank person, and in fact that sometimes has got me

446
00:23:11,434 --> 00:23:14,754
Speaker 4: into trouble in my friendships that people perceive me as

447
00:23:14,794 --> 00:23:17,194
Speaker 4: being too frank. But I guess what you meant by

448
00:23:17,194 --> 00:23:19,714
Speaker 4: private is that I don't have social media, and social

449
00:23:19,754 --> 00:23:23,513
Speaker 4: media is a forum where people love to share. Is

450
00:23:23,554 --> 00:23:26,074
Speaker 4: that overshare if it's on social media, maybe almost by

451
00:23:26,114 --> 00:23:27,513
Speaker 4: definition it's not oversharing.

452
00:23:27,754 --> 00:23:31,074
Speaker 2: Well, social media runs on overshareh Let's be honest, and

453
00:23:31,114 --> 00:23:33,273
Speaker 2: again everyone has upset their boundaries about that. But I

454
00:23:33,314 --> 00:23:35,674
Speaker 2: think when I said that about you, because you're right,

455
00:23:35,674 --> 00:23:38,513
Speaker 2: you're a very frank and direct person and generally speaking,

456
00:23:38,554 --> 00:23:40,074
Speaker 2: if I ask you a question, you're going to tell

457
00:23:40,114 --> 00:23:43,074
Speaker 2: me the answer. But your private in that I don't

458
00:23:43,114 --> 00:23:45,434
Speaker 2: think that the average people who would mill around you

459
00:23:45,474 --> 00:23:47,874
Speaker 2: in an office would know very much about where you live,

460
00:23:48,074 --> 00:23:51,794
Speaker 2: what your family's like, because it's just not your thing.

461
00:23:51,914 --> 00:23:54,554
Speaker 2: You're not going around spilling personal details all the time,

462
00:23:54,594 --> 00:23:56,833
Speaker 2: whereas there are people in our office. Yeah, I love

463
00:23:56,954 --> 00:23:59,834
Speaker 2: very much, Yes, but I feel like I know way

464
00:23:59,914 --> 00:24:03,594
Speaker 2: too much about that weekend. Yeah, way too much, which

465
00:24:03,634 --> 00:24:04,074
Speaker 2: is fine.

466
00:24:04,514 --> 00:24:08,314
Speaker 3: Here's the complicated thing and why I find it hard

467
00:24:08,354 --> 00:24:12,594
Speaker 3: to define whether I'm an oversharer. The thing about sharing

468
00:24:12,914 --> 00:24:16,793
Speaker 3: and disclosure in general as like a psychological thing that

469
00:24:16,834 --> 00:24:20,114
Speaker 3: we do is that it should be based on reciprocity.

470
00:24:20,874 --> 00:24:24,313
Speaker 3: So it should be me having a conversation with someone

471
00:24:24,714 --> 00:24:31,594
Speaker 3: and they say, oh, I had horrible postnail depression with

472
00:24:31,634 --> 00:24:34,033
Speaker 3: my child, and like, oh my gosh, how hard is

473
00:24:34,034 --> 00:24:36,754
Speaker 3: it those few months? And that is how you develop

474
00:24:36,874 --> 00:24:40,234
Speaker 3: a relationship, where you go just a little bit deeper,

475
00:24:40,274 --> 00:24:42,954
Speaker 3: a little bit deeper, and you take turns. That has

476
00:24:43,114 --> 00:24:46,434
Speaker 3: changed in twenty twenty six where so much of our

477
00:24:46,474 --> 00:24:49,674
Speaker 3: sharing is one way. Like the weird thing about Harry

478
00:24:49,754 --> 00:24:53,674
Speaker 3: and that Olympian is that there was no reciprocity. It

479
00:24:53,714 --> 00:24:57,354
Speaker 3: was just them. It's just Harry being like, let me

480
00:24:57,354 --> 00:24:57,754
Speaker 3: tell you a.

481
00:24:57,674 --> 00:24:58,954
Speaker 1: Story in person.

482
00:24:59,354 --> 00:25:02,354
Speaker 4: We would then reciprocate to Harry with a story about

483
00:25:02,354 --> 00:25:04,954
Speaker 4: our private parts, and then we'd become closer us.

484
00:25:04,914 --> 00:25:07,074
Speaker 3: And we'd warm up to the penis.

485
00:25:07,354 --> 00:25:10,154
Speaker 2: So I think oversharing is what, as I say, is

486
00:25:10,154 --> 00:25:12,434
Speaker 2: the fuel of social media knowing what's going on in

487
00:25:12,434 --> 00:25:15,914
Speaker 2: people's lives. But it's been there's a sort of snobbery

488
00:25:15,954 --> 00:25:18,594
Speaker 2: about it. And so is this information, this article, this

489
00:25:18,754 --> 00:25:21,074
Speaker 2: idea that we should be less judged.

490
00:25:21,154 --> 00:25:24,114
Speaker 4: Yes, I think that's perfectly put and let me talk

491
00:25:24,154 --> 00:25:26,273
Speaker 4: you through the four steps, because they did get me

492
00:25:26,394 --> 00:25:31,474
Speaker 4: thinking about how I can maybe sprinkle a little bit

493
00:25:31,474 --> 00:25:34,714
Speaker 4: of Team I throughout my life to enrich and deepen

494
00:25:34,834 --> 00:25:38,354
Speaker 4: my relationships. Number One, you're meant to do an audit

495
00:25:38,794 --> 00:25:42,434
Speaker 4: of your daily life and identify those opportunities at which

496
00:25:42,474 --> 00:25:44,794
Speaker 4: you could have shared more. Now I think we all

497
00:25:44,834 --> 00:25:47,354
Speaker 4: have those, right. Maybe you're talking to a colleague you

498
00:25:47,394 --> 00:25:49,594
Speaker 4: don't know that well. They ask you how your weekend was.

499
00:25:49,634 --> 00:25:53,154
Speaker 4: That's a classic decision point where you have to decide

500
00:25:53,194 --> 00:25:54,793
Speaker 4: how much to share. You can either be like, it

501
00:25:54,834 --> 00:25:57,994
Speaker 4: was great, very relaxing, thank you, or you can tell

502
00:25:57,994 --> 00:26:00,394
Speaker 4: them about the stomach bug you had on Saturday night.

503
00:26:00,554 --> 00:26:04,554
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a very good example because so if

504
00:26:04,554 --> 00:26:06,954
Speaker 2: I'm trying to build a relationship with someone and I'm

505
00:26:06,994 --> 00:26:09,234
Speaker 2: in kitchen at work and they I say, how is

506
00:26:09,274 --> 00:26:12,714
Speaker 2: your weekend? And they say, I was actually really depressed

507
00:26:12,754 --> 00:26:16,914
Speaker 2: on Saturday. I've broken up with my partner and I

508
00:26:16,954 --> 00:26:21,634
Speaker 2: spent the whole day crying in bed with my cat. Like,

509
00:26:21,714 --> 00:26:25,313
Speaker 2: the problem with that overshare is what I do with it.

510
00:26:25,674 --> 00:26:28,874
Speaker 2: You've given me as you've opened that door, and I

511
00:26:28,954 --> 00:26:32,794
Speaker 2: can't just go, oh, great, see you later. But really

512
00:26:32,834 --> 00:26:36,634
Speaker 2: really can't. So but that person sharing that with me

513
00:26:36,754 --> 00:26:38,634
Speaker 2: tells me that A they really needed to get it

514
00:26:38,674 --> 00:26:40,834
Speaker 2: off their chest, and B they are trying to build

515
00:26:40,874 --> 00:26:41,914
Speaker 2: an intimacy with me.

516
00:26:42,114 --> 00:26:43,994
Speaker 1: It is a bed, it's a bid, it's a.

517
00:26:43,994 --> 00:26:47,114
Speaker 2: Pedal, isn't it. It's like I'm reaching to you. So

518
00:26:47,994 --> 00:26:50,593
Speaker 2: then I have to say, oh, mate, that sounds terrible,

519
00:26:50,874 --> 00:26:51,634
Speaker 2: what happened?

520
00:26:52,714 --> 00:26:55,634
Speaker 4: Or share a struggle in your own weekend, because we've

521
00:26:55,674 --> 00:26:58,434
Speaker 4: all got there. I have to go, oh, yeah, yeah,

522
00:26:58,474 --> 00:26:59,674
Speaker 4: I've got a problem too.

523
00:27:01,274 --> 00:27:02,434
Speaker 1: So here's step two.

524
00:27:02,834 --> 00:27:06,033
Speaker 4: Consider the cost of not sharing what popped into your

525
00:27:06,074 --> 00:27:08,354
Speaker 4: mind because I think too often. I think the point

526
00:27:08,394 --> 00:27:11,793
Speaker 4: that Leslie is making here is that we too often

527
00:27:12,034 --> 00:27:14,594
Speaker 4: we overthink it and that's why we don't end up oversharing.

528
00:27:14,634 --> 00:27:16,273
Speaker 1: But she's saying, how bad can.

529
00:27:16,154 --> 00:27:18,394
Speaker 4: It be to just open up a little bit more,

530
00:27:18,514 --> 00:27:19,754
Speaker 4: Just be a little bit more open.

531
00:27:20,434 --> 00:27:21,754
Speaker 1: Step three starts more.

532
00:27:22,194 --> 00:27:24,954
Speaker 4: I think perhaps the example you just gave that person

533
00:27:25,354 --> 00:27:26,314
Speaker 4: gave a little.

534
00:27:26,034 --> 00:27:27,394
Speaker 1: Bit too much information to you.

535
00:27:27,874 --> 00:27:29,954
Speaker 4: And then four, which I think is interesting, you do

536
00:27:30,034 --> 00:27:33,474
Speaker 4: have to ask questions. She says that people assume that

537
00:27:33,914 --> 00:27:36,234
Speaker 4: you don't want to pry, but in fact, people want

538
00:27:36,274 --> 00:27:38,914
Speaker 4: to be asked questions and they don't think of them

539
00:27:38,954 --> 00:27:41,874
Speaker 4: as invasive because they're just really to be talking about themselves.

540
00:27:42,194 --> 00:27:45,394
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really interesting. I don't know is this British

541
00:27:45,474 --> 00:27:47,994
Speaker 2: or is this personality or what. But like, I'm quite

542
00:27:47,994 --> 00:27:50,513
Speaker 2: good at keeping other people's secrets. Say, I know that

543
00:27:50,554 --> 00:27:53,353
Speaker 2: something's going on in your life, right, So I know

544
00:27:53,434 --> 00:27:55,074
Speaker 2: that something's going on in your life. That's a bit

545
00:27:55,114 --> 00:27:57,194
Speaker 2: tricky and it's challenging, but you're getting on with your

546
00:27:57,314 --> 00:27:59,033
Speaker 2: you're getting on with work. We don't all want to

547
00:27:59,034 --> 00:28:02,114
Speaker 2: be stopped every two minutes for everyone to go, how

548
00:28:02,194 --> 00:28:04,513
Speaker 2: do your mum or whatever it is? Right, I'm going

549
00:28:04,594 --> 00:28:06,754
Speaker 2: to absolutely respect that, and I'm not really going to

550
00:28:06,794 --> 00:28:08,474
Speaker 2: talk to you about it much. Every now and again,

551
00:28:08,514 --> 00:28:10,434
Speaker 2: I'll give you a little arm squeeze and be like,

552
00:28:10,914 --> 00:28:14,234
Speaker 2: you're right. But that might be seen as cold, but

553
00:28:14,394 --> 00:28:16,954
Speaker 2: I assume that people don't want to talk about it,

554
00:28:17,154 --> 00:28:17,754
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean?

555
00:28:17,994 --> 00:28:19,874
Speaker 4: Well, that's why it's so interesting that the three of

556
00:28:19,914 --> 00:28:23,273
Speaker 4: us are sitting here, because Holly, you come from a

557
00:28:23,354 --> 00:28:28,434
Speaker 4: culture of not oversharing. I have spent many years in

558
00:28:28,474 --> 00:28:31,154
Speaker 4: the US, which I would say errs on the side

559
00:28:31,234 --> 00:28:34,994
Speaker 4: of TMI. One quick story is that when I started

560
00:28:35,074 --> 00:28:37,513
Speaker 4: university in the US, I was meeting my roommates for

561
00:28:37,554 --> 00:28:39,354
Speaker 4: the first time. We were going around in a circle

562
00:28:39,434 --> 00:28:41,954
Speaker 4: saying our name and where we were from. I said,

563
00:28:42,194 --> 00:28:45,314
Speaker 4: I'm Amelia. I'm from Sydney, Australia. Next person next to

564
00:28:45,354 --> 00:28:48,114
Speaker 4: me says, I'm so and so and I have an

565
00:28:48,154 --> 00:28:52,314
Speaker 4: eating disorder. Wow, And I thought, okay, it's great to

566
00:28:52,434 --> 00:28:55,354
Speaker 4: know that on first blush. And it really set me

567
00:28:55,474 --> 00:28:59,034
Speaker 4: up for Americans and how they as a rule operate,

568
00:28:59,034 --> 00:29:01,154
Speaker 4: the rough three hundred million of them. But as a rule,

569
00:29:01,634 --> 00:29:06,834
Speaker 4: particularly when it comes to topics around the body, sex, money,

570
00:29:07,514 --> 00:29:10,154
Speaker 4: I would say that Americans are much more inclined to

571
00:29:10,194 --> 00:29:12,634
Speaker 4: share details. They'll tell you New Yorkers certainly will tell

572
00:29:12,634 --> 00:29:14,754
Speaker 4: you how much money they're paying rent. Can you imagine

573
00:29:14,754 --> 00:29:16,594
Speaker 4: a city side of opening up about that?

574
00:29:16,794 --> 00:29:17,594
Speaker 2: And interesting the.

575
00:29:17,554 --> 00:29:20,474
Speaker 4: Fact that prices are always withheld on houses here I

576
00:29:20,514 --> 00:29:23,754
Speaker 4: find so interesting because it just speaks to this desired

577
00:29:23,994 --> 00:29:24,754
Speaker 4: to be private.

578
00:29:24,794 --> 00:29:26,554
Speaker 2: Would an American ask you how much you earn?

579
00:29:27,194 --> 00:29:30,914
Speaker 4: No, because that intersects with capitalism, and they don't want

580
00:29:30,914 --> 00:29:32,954
Speaker 4: to tell you that because then.

581
00:29:32,834 --> 00:29:36,754
Speaker 1: They might have their own earning powers like diminished.

582
00:29:36,314 --> 00:29:38,034
Speaker 2: In some way. They would ask you how much your

583
00:29:38,034 --> 00:29:38,474
Speaker 2: house costs.

584
00:29:38,474 --> 00:29:40,474
Speaker 1: They would absolutely ask you how much your house costs.

585
00:29:40,474 --> 00:29:42,434
Speaker 4: They expect you to tell them how much an item

586
00:29:42,474 --> 00:29:44,914
Speaker 4: of clothing is if you compliment them on it. So

587
00:29:45,074 --> 00:29:47,874
Speaker 4: we have Claire here to kind of mediate between the

588
00:29:47,914 --> 00:29:50,474
Speaker 4: two of us and to because I do think Australia

589
00:29:50,514 --> 00:29:53,394
Speaker 4: sits somewhere between the UK and the US in terms

590
00:29:53,434 --> 00:29:55,634
Speaker 4: of overshare. What do you think of the topics that

591
00:29:55,674 --> 00:29:57,994
Speaker 4: Australians will not talk about.

592
00:29:58,634 --> 00:30:01,634
Speaker 3: I mean, I think what's weird about Australia is that

593
00:30:01,754 --> 00:30:06,834
Speaker 3: some of those topics we joke about where the undertone

594
00:30:07,314 --> 00:30:12,194
Speaker 3: is kind of oversharing, and Americans don't necessarily share the

595
00:30:12,274 --> 00:30:13,434
Speaker 3: sense of humor.

596
00:30:14,394 --> 00:30:15,914
Speaker 1: Just talk about an example.

597
00:30:15,874 --> 00:30:21,194
Speaker 3: So I joke a lot about like I'll be like

598
00:30:21,354 --> 00:30:28,434
Speaker 3: I'm poor or just yes exactly so, like or I'll

599
00:30:28,554 --> 00:30:32,154
Speaker 3: joke about my family in a self deprecating way, or

600
00:30:32,594 --> 00:30:35,474
Speaker 3: so my now husband and I lived in the West

601
00:30:35,474 --> 00:30:38,194
Speaker 3: three year and he was going to a music college.

602
00:30:38,514 --> 00:30:41,834
Speaker 3: And on his first day he walked in and somebody

603
00:30:41,914 --> 00:30:43,554
Speaker 3: was like, what instrument do you play? And where he's

604
00:30:43,554 --> 00:30:45,914
Speaker 3: like a pay piano and he's like, so, how good

605
00:30:45,914 --> 00:30:47,874
Speaker 3: are you? And where he's like, oh, I I don't know,

606
00:30:48,194 --> 00:30:51,794
Speaker 3: I'm okay, and this guy was just like, if you're okay,

607
00:30:51,834 --> 00:30:54,154
Speaker 3: then why are you here? Like you know what I mean.

608
00:30:54,314 --> 00:30:56,394
Speaker 1: Like, it's kind of pretty good.

609
00:30:58,354 --> 00:31:00,834
Speaker 3: I absorbed it for a year. But it's like, I

610
00:31:00,874 --> 00:31:04,834
Speaker 3: think our way of oversharing or showing vulnerability is through

611
00:31:04,874 --> 00:31:08,354
Speaker 3: self deprecations. It's not as frank, right.

612
00:31:08,234 --> 00:31:10,754
Speaker 2: What about the idea. You know, there's a stereotype that

613
00:31:10,794 --> 00:31:12,434
Speaker 2: I think is true to a point that groups of

614
00:31:12,474 --> 00:31:18,954
Speaker 2: women overshare quickly and early to establish trust, yeah, and

615
00:31:19,034 --> 00:31:22,274
Speaker 2: vulnerability and the fact that they are not a threat.

616
00:31:22,754 --> 00:31:24,874
Speaker 2: So you see those memes all the time of like

617
00:31:24,994 --> 00:31:28,074
Speaker 2: women after five minutes, where they like it starts with Hi,

618
00:31:28,154 --> 00:31:29,514
Speaker 2: how are you, And before you know it, it's like

619
00:31:29,514 --> 00:31:31,354
Speaker 2: and then my father left and then I ended up,

620
00:31:31,794 --> 00:31:34,154
Speaker 2: and they're like, that's just her women roll me. It

621
00:31:34,234 --> 00:31:35,914
Speaker 2: is very good at that she was one of the

622
00:31:35,954 --> 00:31:38,674
Speaker 2: reasons why she's great in like a business or a

623
00:31:38,674 --> 00:31:40,754
Speaker 2: social situation. People you don't know. She'll just go up

624
00:31:40,754 --> 00:31:45,474
Speaker 2: to them and be like you look sad, and some

625
00:31:45,514 --> 00:31:48,514
Speaker 2: people really respond to that or whatever the equivalent of

626
00:31:48,514 --> 00:31:49,754
Speaker 2: that is, And before you know it, they're telling you

627
00:31:49,794 --> 00:31:52,994
Speaker 2: what they're at, what medications they're on what they had

628
00:31:52,994 --> 00:31:56,074
Speaker 2: for breakfast, how many times they have sex, whatever. I

629
00:31:56,154 --> 00:31:57,554
Speaker 2: don't like that too early.

630
00:31:57,754 --> 00:32:00,154
Speaker 4: But then how are you making the friendships? Because I

631
00:32:00,194 --> 00:32:01,914
Speaker 4: do think that's a big part of it.

632
00:32:02,034 --> 00:32:04,474
Speaker 2: If I'm a a girl's dinner in commerce and there,

633
00:32:04,914 --> 00:32:06,874
Speaker 2: and I might not know everybody, it takes me a

634
00:32:06,914 --> 00:32:09,914
Speaker 2: while to warm to that. Somebody goes straight in with

635
00:32:10,034 --> 00:32:13,474
Speaker 2: their childhood trauma or their eating disorder to your point

636
00:32:13,994 --> 00:32:17,514
Speaker 2: or whatever and a thing or their relationship messages. I

637
00:32:17,554 --> 00:32:20,394
Speaker 2: always think, why are you telling me that you don't

638
00:32:20,394 --> 00:32:22,474
Speaker 2: know if you can trust me? Maybe that's it, Like

639
00:32:22,554 --> 00:32:24,754
Speaker 2: there's a you know what I mean. I would never

640
00:32:24,794 --> 00:32:27,554
Speaker 2: share in a circle.

641
00:32:27,394 --> 00:32:30,914
Speaker 3: Of people you knew how about it work? Because my

642
00:32:31,834 --> 00:32:35,474
Speaker 3: sense about oversharing in the workplace is that and I

643
00:32:35,474 --> 00:32:38,274
Speaker 3: feel like I've learned the hard way by oversharing. And

644
00:32:38,314 --> 00:32:42,074
Speaker 3: we have a weird workplace where you sort of do

645
00:32:42,274 --> 00:32:46,114
Speaker 3: overshare publicly in the space that you work. And I

646
00:32:46,154 --> 00:32:49,474
Speaker 3: feel like as a leader, when I was editor in

647
00:32:49,554 --> 00:32:56,074
Speaker 3: chief here, I was very I guess vulnerable oversharing about

648
00:32:56,514 --> 00:33:01,634
Speaker 3: my weaknesses, like I would be very self deprecating about

649
00:33:02,434 --> 00:33:05,514
Speaker 3: like I guess it's kind of weird to be running

650
00:33:05,514 --> 00:33:08,714
Speaker 3: a content team and then doing content where you're joking

651
00:33:08,714 --> 00:33:11,634
Speaker 3: about being lazy, and then kind of running a content

652
00:33:11,714 --> 00:33:15,354
Speaker 3: team and also being really transparent about the fact that

653
00:33:16,194 --> 00:33:19,554
Speaker 3: you're bad at confrontation and you're bad at being assertive.

654
00:33:19,754 --> 00:33:23,874
Speaker 4: But by the way, like the lazy girl trope, it

655
00:33:24,034 --> 00:33:26,834
Speaker 4: is a joke because you were the editor in chiefly

656
00:33:26,914 --> 00:33:29,674
Speaker 4: you have written a book. Like I think that's why

657
00:33:29,754 --> 00:33:32,354
Speaker 4: you felt able to make that joke. If we go

658
00:33:32,474 --> 00:33:35,274
Speaker 4: deep and we psychoanalyze it, yes, But.

659
00:33:35,394 --> 00:33:40,034
Speaker 3: I I wondered if people felt like they had more

660
00:33:40,114 --> 00:33:44,074
Speaker 3: license to say things. People would say things to me

661
00:33:44,114 --> 00:33:46,994
Speaker 3: where I was like, oh, I would never say that

662
00:33:47,074 --> 00:33:49,114
Speaker 3: to my boss, but maybe you feel like you can

663
00:33:49,154 --> 00:33:50,834
Speaker 3: say that to me because I've said that about me.

664
00:33:50,954 --> 00:33:52,594
Speaker 2: Well, this is the problem that you set up. So

665
00:33:52,714 --> 00:33:55,594
Speaker 2: let's imagine that you're Anthony Albanesi and you're running a cabinet,

666
00:33:55,634 --> 00:33:58,794
Speaker 2: right and you go and you're like, it's our first

667
00:33:58,914 --> 00:34:01,314
Speaker 2: day and we've all got to make sure we trust

668
00:34:01,354 --> 00:34:04,274
Speaker 2: each other. So you open with like, actually, I don't

669
00:34:04,274 --> 00:34:09,434
Speaker 2: know anything about the economy. I'm not saying that's true,

670
00:34:10,873 --> 00:34:13,473
Speaker 2: but I'm like, so thank god I've got you, you know,

671
00:34:13,634 --> 00:34:19,994
Speaker 2: Chancellor whatever, treasure Chancellor. I'm now in Britain Answer of

672
00:34:20,034 --> 00:34:22,953
Speaker 2: the Exchequer anyway, so thank god that I have got

673
00:34:22,954 --> 00:34:27,474
Speaker 2: my treasurer right. And that does not work. It doesn't work.

674
00:34:27,834 --> 00:34:31,154
Speaker 2: You have to pretend that you have no weaknesses, that

675
00:34:31,234 --> 00:34:35,154
Speaker 2: you know everything. But imagine that. Imagine applying the female

676
00:34:35,194 --> 00:34:38,873
Speaker 2: self deprecation to a really big male coded.

677
00:34:38,714 --> 00:34:42,154
Speaker 1: Job getting up there. I'm a bit of a lazy boy, exactly.

678
00:34:44,074 --> 00:34:46,794
Speaker 2: I've got to go and negotiate with like Trump and stuff,

679
00:34:46,794 --> 00:34:49,914
Speaker 2: but I hate it's going to be super awkward.

680
00:34:50,034 --> 00:34:53,794
Speaker 3: It's like, I'm.

681
00:34:53,594 --> 00:34:56,114
Speaker 2: So an anagram nine. I don't know what my chart's

682
00:34:56,154 --> 00:34:59,954
Speaker 2: saying today, Like it doesn't work, Yeah, gotcha. So, although

683
00:34:59,994 --> 00:35:03,474
Speaker 2: I understand this idea that like good leadership requires some vulnerability,

684
00:35:03,514 --> 00:35:06,154
Speaker 2: Brene Brown's written a hotcture. Her whole career is based

685
00:35:06,154 --> 00:35:08,593
Speaker 2: on that fact, right, is that good leaders do allow

686
00:35:08,634 --> 00:35:12,114
Speaker 2: themselves to be vulnerable. There has to be a point

687
00:35:12,114 --> 00:35:18,234
Speaker 2: at which it's like inside voice album, yeah, yeah, side voice,

688
00:35:18,554 --> 00:35:20,194
Speaker 2: you can add up it's okay.

689
00:35:20,394 --> 00:35:20,914
Speaker 1: Yeah.

690
00:35:21,154 --> 00:35:23,554
Speaker 4: And I want to pour one out, especially for people

691
00:35:23,554 --> 00:35:26,634
Speaker 4: who are dating listening to this advice, because I think

692
00:35:26,834 --> 00:35:31,154
Speaker 4: dating is the hardest place to navigate these very complicated

693
00:35:31,194 --> 00:35:34,913
Speaker 4: dynamics around tumiin overshare, because it's the only time in

694
00:35:34,954 --> 00:35:37,234
Speaker 4: your life where you've just kind of expected to meet

695
00:35:37,274 --> 00:35:40,314
Speaker 4: someone who you've never met before, and then start talking

696
00:35:40,394 --> 00:35:45,394
Speaker 4: about your family dynamics and presumably like your romantic history

697
00:35:45,474 --> 00:35:49,034
Speaker 4: and your deepest, darkest fears and aspirations for the future,

698
00:35:49,394 --> 00:35:52,354
Speaker 4: and then guess what, you may be rejected for sharing

699
00:35:52,394 --> 00:35:52,913
Speaker 4: all of that.

700
00:35:53,114 --> 00:35:56,074
Speaker 3: And you won't know what it was that you share,

701
00:35:56,194 --> 00:35:57,514
Speaker 3: no that made you reject.

702
00:35:57,754 --> 00:36:00,194
Speaker 4: And I think the thing that I found most challenging

703
00:36:00,234 --> 00:36:03,314
Speaker 4: about my years of dating was that you have a

704
00:36:03,354 --> 00:36:06,474
Speaker 4: lot of regret about sharing too much. You know that feeling.

705
00:36:06,474 --> 00:36:08,794
Speaker 4: It gets almost like a hangover. In fact, it's often

706
00:36:08,954 --> 00:36:12,593
Speaker 4: coinciding with a hangover. Interestingly, maybe there's a correlation there

707
00:36:12,834 --> 00:36:15,393
Speaker 4: where you feel like you've given too much to this

708
00:36:15,514 --> 00:36:19,434
Speaker 4: stranger and you feel really icky about ability.

709
00:36:19,034 --> 00:36:23,314
Speaker 2: Hangover after the break in the middle of an escalating conflict,

710
00:36:23,514 --> 00:36:27,274
Speaker 2: Why are there so many headlines about influencers stuck in

711
00:36:27,354 --> 00:36:39,074
Speaker 2: Dubai among the influx of news stories about the deeply

712
00:36:39,194 --> 00:36:42,674
Speaker 2: serious escalation of conflict in Iran at the moment and

713
00:36:42,714 --> 00:36:45,834
Speaker 2: the quickie of course, our news podcast will have all

714
00:36:45,834 --> 00:36:49,034
Speaker 2: those developments as they're happening day by day. We kind

715
00:36:49,034 --> 00:36:52,994
Speaker 2: of wanted to look at this almost strange, peculiar phenomena

716
00:36:53,074 --> 00:36:55,994
Speaker 2: of all the stories about the influencers who are stranded

717
00:36:55,994 --> 00:36:59,274
Speaker 2: in Dubai, content creators from all over the world who

718
00:36:59,314 --> 00:37:01,834
Speaker 2: are now wrestling with what to make of bombs falling

719
00:37:01,874 --> 00:37:05,354
Speaker 2: on their previously paradise playground.

720
00:37:05,474 --> 00:37:05,634
Speaker 5: Right.

721
00:37:06,194 --> 00:37:09,514
Speaker 2: I heard this really interesting segment about this on the

722
00:37:09,514 --> 00:37:12,594
Speaker 2: Rest is Entertainment today and hattiped to them for like

723
00:37:12,674 --> 00:37:15,433
Speaker 2: putting some context for me around something that I keep

724
00:37:15,514 --> 00:37:17,513
Speaker 2: seeing all these stories, and I was like, but why

725
00:37:17,554 --> 00:37:20,874
Speaker 2: are there so many influencers in Dubai. I didn't really

726
00:37:20,914 --> 00:37:22,953
Speaker 2: know that world existed to the point that it does,

727
00:37:23,114 --> 00:37:25,794
Speaker 2: and that now those people all have this front seat

728
00:37:26,114 --> 00:37:30,074
Speaker 2: to this unfolding war and they're kind of being asked

729
00:37:30,154 --> 00:37:34,154
Speaker 2: to document it, right when usually they're more look at

730
00:37:34,154 --> 00:37:38,194
Speaker 2: my shoes and my fancy yacht. A little bit of context,

731
00:37:38,634 --> 00:37:40,873
Speaker 2: Dubai is known as the influencer capital of the world.

732
00:37:40,994 --> 00:37:42,913
Speaker 2: I didn't know that, did you guys know that?

733
00:37:43,034 --> 00:37:43,434
Speaker 1: I did not.

734
00:37:43,754 --> 00:37:48,074
Speaker 3: I didn't, But for a long time I've seen beautiful

735
00:37:48,114 --> 00:37:52,114
Speaker 3: people in Dubai and wondered, what's the go with that?

736
00:37:52,194 --> 00:37:54,433
Speaker 2: Well, the go with that as it turns out. And

737
00:37:54,474 --> 00:37:57,594
Speaker 2: obviously I'm not going to get deep into immigration law here,

738
00:37:58,114 --> 00:38:00,634
Speaker 2: but Dbai, I'm sure lots of people know this, and

739
00:38:00,674 --> 00:38:02,034
Speaker 2: I know that we have a lot of listeners in

740
00:38:02,074 --> 00:38:04,354
Speaker 2: that part of the world too, So please excuse my

741
00:38:04,474 --> 00:38:08,914
Speaker 2: simplistic explanation. But obviously do Ubay has a big population

742
00:38:08,954 --> 00:38:11,234
Speaker 2: of people who are not from there. They say that

743
00:38:11,274 --> 00:38:15,234
Speaker 2: about ninety two percent of workers in Dubai are not

744
00:38:15,634 --> 00:38:19,873
Speaker 2: from Dubai. They're from somewhere else. Lots of diversity within that,

745
00:38:20,074 --> 00:38:22,954
Speaker 2: both in terms of nationalities and of the level and

746
00:38:23,074 --> 00:38:26,114
Speaker 2: reward of jobs that those people are doing. Right, on

747
00:38:26,154 --> 00:38:29,554
Speaker 2: the one hand, there have been ongoing lots of significant

748
00:38:29,634 --> 00:38:32,954
Speaker 2: human rights concerns about the conditions for a lot of

749
00:38:32,954 --> 00:38:35,433
Speaker 2: workers in areas like construction who live and work in

750
00:38:35,434 --> 00:38:39,393
Speaker 2: this extreme situation. And on the other it's long been

751
00:38:39,394 --> 00:38:43,433
Speaker 2: a place for white collar so called expats to go

752
00:38:43,474 --> 00:38:46,994
Speaker 2: and work in areas like finance and tourism and increasingly

753
00:38:47,074 --> 00:38:50,274
Speaker 2: things like crypto and tech and all of that kind

754
00:38:50,274 --> 00:38:53,354
Speaker 2: of stuff. So all that's happening, and then in recent

755
00:38:53,434 --> 00:38:58,274
Speaker 2: years Dubai have actively courted influencers and content creators to

756
00:38:58,354 --> 00:39:02,034
Speaker 2: come base themselves out of there, make content about what

757
00:39:02,154 --> 00:39:05,514
Speaker 2: an amazing place it is. They offer these special visas.

758
00:39:05,554 --> 00:39:08,194
Speaker 2: They it's something called a ten year Golden visa, which

759
00:39:08,234 --> 00:39:09,993
Speaker 2: gives you, you know, sort of you can stay there

760
00:39:09,994 --> 00:39:12,393
Speaker 2: and live there. And most of these visas you just

761
00:39:12,474 --> 00:39:14,354
Speaker 2: have to prove that you have a bit of a following,

762
00:39:14,514 --> 00:39:16,033
Speaker 2: you prove what you're going to do, and then you'll

763
00:39:16,034 --> 00:39:18,194
Speaker 2: pay a small fee. But while you're living and working there,

764
00:39:18,194 --> 00:39:20,634
Speaker 2: you pay no income tax. So that's why it becomes

765
00:39:21,434 --> 00:39:24,314
Speaker 2: such an attractive place. And they've set up like working

766
00:39:24,394 --> 00:39:27,714
Speaker 2: hubs specifically for digital content creators that will have podcast

767
00:39:27,794 --> 00:39:31,394
Speaker 2: studios and cameras and all these things, and then people

768
00:39:31,554 --> 00:39:33,834
Speaker 2: will work there and so what might happen? And there

769
00:39:33,874 --> 00:39:36,274
Speaker 2: are some nostronomers in this obviously, but it's a well

770
00:39:36,314 --> 00:39:38,954
Speaker 2: worn path now for sort of say you were on

771
00:39:39,074 --> 00:39:42,794
Speaker 2: Love Island, UK and you come out with a significant following,

772
00:39:43,434 --> 00:39:45,873
Speaker 2: it's an attractive offer to be like, why don't you

773
00:39:45,914 --> 00:39:48,314
Speaker 2: go and base yourself out of Dubai for a year

774
00:39:48,434 --> 00:39:50,194
Speaker 2: or two or you know, six months of the year,

775
00:39:50,354 --> 00:39:54,394
Speaker 2: escape the British winter, make content, don't payny tax banks

776
00:39:54,434 --> 00:39:58,394
Speaker 2: some money go have and is the main role.

777
00:39:58,274 --> 00:40:02,074
Speaker 3: Of those influencers meant to be tourism.

778
00:40:02,474 --> 00:40:04,994
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of it is to promote Dubai in itself.

779
00:40:05,114 --> 00:40:08,034
Speaker 2: They come these visas with a certain see not all

780
00:40:08,074 --> 00:40:10,354
Speaker 2: of course, but some certain sort of rules around. You

781
00:40:10,394 --> 00:40:12,314
Speaker 2: have to present the UA in a positive light. You

782
00:40:12,354 --> 00:40:14,794
Speaker 2: can't criticize the government and that kind of thing. But

783
00:40:14,874 --> 00:40:18,073
Speaker 2: you might be doing private deals with brands out of there,

784
00:40:18,514 --> 00:40:21,114
Speaker 2: or you might be doing tourism stuff. And the tone

785
00:40:21,154 --> 00:40:24,074
Speaker 2: of a lot of this content is I get to

786
00:40:24,114 --> 00:40:28,074
Speaker 2: live this amazing life in and crucially a safe place.

787
00:40:28,674 --> 00:40:31,434
Speaker 2: So for the British influence, there is a very strong

788
00:40:31,514 --> 00:40:33,913
Speaker 2: vibe of this is like I can walk down the

789
00:40:33,954 --> 00:40:37,154
Speaker 2: street wearing my sixty thousand dollars rolex and no one's

790
00:40:37,154 --> 00:40:39,473
Speaker 2: going to mug me for it. Like even while this

791
00:40:39,834 --> 00:40:42,874
Speaker 2: missiles are falling, now there's a massive British content creator

792
00:40:42,914 --> 00:40:46,234
Speaker 2: lives there who's posting like even with bombs falling, Dubai

793
00:40:46,274 --> 00:40:48,433
Speaker 2: is still safeer them walking in London after nine pm,

794
00:40:48,594 --> 00:40:52,874
Speaker 2: Like there's this that's a vibe that happens right anyway. Obviously,

795
00:40:52,954 --> 00:40:55,754
Speaker 2: what has happened as we know, massive instability in the region.

796
00:40:56,074 --> 00:41:00,433
Speaker 2: Missiles are falling and flights are canceled, and now a

797
00:41:00,434 --> 00:41:03,873
Speaker 2: certain number of influencers are obviously documenting that and attracting

798
00:41:03,914 --> 00:41:07,074
Speaker 2: some criticism for doing it. There's an Australian woman called

799
00:41:07,234 --> 00:41:10,393
Speaker 2: Louise Starky, for example, and she's getting some grief for

800
00:41:10,474 --> 00:41:13,794
Speaker 2: posting from her apartment balcony you can see a missile

801
00:41:13,874 --> 00:41:16,714
Speaker 2: falling and she's taken it down. So that's why we're

802
00:41:16,754 --> 00:41:18,674
Speaker 2: not going to play it for you. She says, I'm scared.

803
00:41:18,714 --> 00:41:20,433
Speaker 2: I'm actually so scared, and then she says, it's not

804
00:41:20,474 --> 00:41:24,474
Speaker 2: meant to be happening here. Can't everyone just chill out?

805
00:41:25,554 --> 00:41:28,354
Speaker 2: She got a lot of derision for that, and quite

806
00:41:28,354 --> 00:41:30,154
Speaker 2: a lot of the influence is a copying a fair

807
00:41:30,194 --> 00:41:33,473
Speaker 2: amount of grief for that. What do we think are

808
00:41:33,474 --> 00:41:37,754
Speaker 2: we expecting these content creators to suddenly turn into war correspondence.

809
00:41:37,914 --> 00:41:39,714
Speaker 3: I mean, the idea of it's not meant to be

810
00:41:39,834 --> 00:41:43,594
Speaker 3: happening here, that's been accused of kind of being riddled

811
00:41:43,594 --> 00:41:48,114
Speaker 3: with a lot of entitlement and almost arrogance that it's

812
00:41:48,154 --> 00:41:51,714
Speaker 3: allowed to happen in the country next door, but it

813
00:41:51,714 --> 00:41:54,434
Speaker 3: shouldn't be happening to me. I do think what's interesting

814
00:41:54,434 --> 00:41:59,154
Speaker 3: about the influencer conversation is when the world gets really

815
00:41:59,194 --> 00:42:02,354
Speaker 3: scary and really complex and there is a conflict of

816
00:42:02,634 --> 00:42:05,393
Speaker 3: the proportions of which we know we have no control over.

817
00:42:05,674 --> 00:42:09,074
Speaker 3: I don't have any control over who bombs who, and

818
00:42:09,394 --> 00:42:14,234
Speaker 3: that is sickening. I think sometimes looking at influences is

819
00:42:14,234 --> 00:42:18,033
Speaker 3: the easiest way to prosecute injustice, and so we look

820
00:42:18,074 --> 00:42:22,433
Speaker 3: at somebody like Louise Staky and we're like, well, I

821
00:42:22,474 --> 00:42:25,754
Speaker 3: can't have a conversation with Trump about how maybe he

822
00:42:25,794 --> 00:42:29,593
Speaker 3: should be a bit more careful about starting military action,

823
00:42:30,314 --> 00:42:33,834
Speaker 3: but I can comment on Louise Darky's post and be like,

824
00:42:33,914 --> 00:42:35,754
Speaker 3: this is insensitive and you're a monster.

825
00:42:35,834 --> 00:42:37,874
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. I think that's true.

826
00:42:38,154 --> 00:42:40,913
Speaker 4: I think that why we can't look away from this

827
00:42:41,154 --> 00:42:45,873
Speaker 4: is because the promise that those influences were made was

828
00:42:45,914 --> 00:42:48,034
Speaker 4: that they would be in the Middle East, but they

829
00:42:48,114 --> 00:42:51,234
Speaker 4: actually could have been anywhere. They weren't really in the

830
00:42:51,234 --> 00:42:55,394
Speaker 4: Middle East. They were kind of in this Disneyland version

831
00:42:55,954 --> 00:42:56,354
Speaker 4: in the.

832
00:42:56,274 --> 00:42:57,754
Speaker 1: Desert of the Middle East.

833
00:42:57,954 --> 00:43:01,394
Speaker 4: So one real I saw from one of these influences

834
00:43:01,914 --> 00:43:04,473
Speaker 4: proudly said she was probably saying that after two years

835
00:43:04,514 --> 00:43:07,314
Speaker 4: in Jubai, she didn't know anything about Ramadan and it's

836
00:43:07,394 --> 00:43:09,873
Speaker 4: rituals now nor do I, by the way, But I

837
00:43:09,914 --> 00:43:11,834
Speaker 4: think the issue is that if you've been living for

838
00:43:11,874 --> 00:43:15,794
Speaker 4: two years in the United Arab Emirates, you should probably

839
00:43:15,834 --> 00:43:17,354
Speaker 4: know something about Ramadan.

840
00:43:17,474 --> 00:43:19,354
Speaker 1: But that was part of the appeal. They didn't have

841
00:43:19,434 --> 00:43:20,074
Speaker 1: to know anything.

842
00:43:20,114 --> 00:43:23,434
Speaker 3: But that's interesting because I've spent maybe three days in Dubai.

843
00:43:23,554 --> 00:43:26,434
Speaker 3: I stayed there and I was oblivious and didn't know

844
00:43:26,474 --> 00:43:28,354
Speaker 3: it was Ramadan at the time because it was a

845
00:43:28,394 --> 00:43:32,354
Speaker 3: stopover coming back from Europe. And I knew it was Ramadan,

846
00:43:32,994 --> 00:43:35,674
Speaker 3: like that was in the hotel, that was everywhere. And

847
00:43:36,274 --> 00:43:40,114
Speaker 3: the thing about being there is that, yes, it feels

848
00:43:40,154 --> 00:43:43,794
Speaker 3: like you're in Jess and I both said, it feels

849
00:43:43,794 --> 00:43:45,834
Speaker 3: like a fake world. You go to this.

850
00:43:45,954 --> 00:43:48,873
Speaker 4: In fact, there's a fake world of islands some off

851
00:43:48,874 --> 00:43:49,714
Speaker 4: the coast of Germany.

852
00:43:49,794 --> 00:43:52,114
Speaker 3: I'm made like you go to this shopping center and

853
00:43:52,114 --> 00:43:54,474
Speaker 3: it's the biggest shopping center in the world, and you

854
00:43:54,554 --> 00:43:57,234
Speaker 3: see the Burj Khalifa, which is the tallest building in

855
00:43:57,234 --> 00:43:59,554
Speaker 3: the world, and you're blown away by all of this.

856
00:44:00,394 --> 00:44:02,873
Speaker 3: You're very aware of where you are. I found and

857
00:44:03,234 --> 00:44:08,354
Speaker 3: I remember when we were landing, I was reading Fifty

858
00:44:08,354 --> 00:44:10,993
Speaker 3: Shades of Gray, which you mainked.

859
00:44:10,714 --> 00:44:13,393
Speaker 1: Because it's very appropriate to that destination.

860
00:44:13,594 --> 00:44:16,114
Speaker 3: Well, and the flight attendant tapped me on the shoulder

861
00:44:16,154 --> 00:44:19,354
Speaker 3: and said, you can't read that here. Yeah, so they

862
00:44:19,394 --> 00:44:23,194
Speaker 3: definitely are those kind of I don't know those sign

863
00:44:23,274 --> 00:44:25,033
Speaker 3: posts about where you are there are.

864
00:44:25,234 --> 00:44:27,154
Speaker 4: But at the same time, I just want to say

865
00:44:27,154 --> 00:44:31,074
Speaker 4: that I really feel for all the Australians who are

866
00:44:31,114 --> 00:44:34,234
Speaker 4: in that region right now, because what is happening is

867
00:44:34,394 --> 00:44:39,794
Speaker 4: very unprecedented and shocking to a lot of the countries

868
00:44:39,834 --> 00:44:43,274
Speaker 4: in this region who thought that they were insulated from

869
00:44:43,434 --> 00:44:44,674
Speaker 4: the dynamics of.

870
00:44:45,354 --> 00:44:46,834
Speaker 1: The more hot spot areas.

871
00:44:47,034 --> 00:44:49,834
Speaker 4: So you know, I don't think that anyone could have

872
00:44:49,954 --> 00:44:53,074
Speaker 4: foreseen this future even a week ago. And when I

873
00:44:53,154 --> 00:44:56,314
Speaker 4: saw on Monday that the US State Department had issued

874
00:44:56,314 --> 00:44:58,954
Speaker 4: this warning to all Americans in the Middle East, basically

875
00:44:59,034 --> 00:45:02,994
Speaker 4: the entire Middle East, to leave immediately, my heart sank

876
00:45:03,034 --> 00:45:04,994
Speaker 4: for all these people because it's not going to be

877
00:45:05,034 --> 00:45:06,913
Speaker 4: easy for them to leave either. By the way, this

878
00:45:07,154 --> 00:45:10,594
Speaker 4: Alien government's advice is more modulated than that. It's it's

879
00:45:10,634 --> 00:45:14,354
Speaker 4: on the Defact website and it advises people to register

880
00:45:14,474 --> 00:45:18,234
Speaker 4: with their local consults and embassies and to make plans

881
00:45:18,234 --> 00:45:21,834
Speaker 4: to leave. But nonetheless, lots of flights are canceled hundreds,

882
00:45:22,034 --> 00:45:24,634
Speaker 4: even thousands of flights are canceled. There's no real way out.

883
00:45:24,714 --> 00:45:27,954
Speaker 4: People are trying to plot like overland routes. It is

884
00:45:27,994 --> 00:45:31,154
Speaker 4: a very scary situation that I don't think anyone could

885
00:45:31,194 --> 00:45:32,354
Speaker 4: have predicted.

886
00:45:32,034 --> 00:45:34,794
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think that you're right, Claire, that there

887
00:45:34,914 --> 00:45:38,834
Speaker 2: is a certain shaden freud we're seeing in the I've

888
00:45:38,834 --> 00:45:42,474
Speaker 2: seen cartoons of like sort of lots of real housewife

889
00:45:42,514 --> 00:45:44,393
Speaker 2: looking kind of women trying to get on planes and

890
00:45:44,434 --> 00:45:48,874
Speaker 2: they're like, do buy evacuation, and it's very sneery and snobby,

891
00:45:48,914 --> 00:45:51,354
Speaker 2: and it is hard not to look at that very

892
00:45:51,394 --> 00:45:55,034
Speaker 2: pure do buy influencer space where they are sort of

893
00:45:55,074 --> 00:45:56,354
Speaker 2: like I get to live on a yacht and where

894
00:45:56,354 --> 00:45:59,154
Speaker 2: a role like dad without being a bit like oh.

895
00:45:59,194 --> 00:46:01,834
Speaker 2: But as to your point, Amelia, there are so many

896
00:46:01,874 --> 00:46:04,393
Speaker 2: people living there and stuck there who that is not

897
00:46:04,514 --> 00:46:06,834
Speaker 2: the case for them, not that there's a moral value

898
00:46:06,834 --> 00:46:08,674
Speaker 2: about whether or not you should be able to be safe.

899
00:46:08,794 --> 00:46:10,393
Speaker 2: And I just want to tell everybody that if you

900
00:46:10,434 --> 00:46:14,194
Speaker 2: do want to follow an Australian woman who's living in Dubai,

901
00:46:14,234 --> 00:46:16,393
Speaker 2: who I've followed for years actually because I interviewed her

902
00:46:16,434 --> 00:46:18,634
Speaker 2: a long time ago, and she's really amazing. She's called

903
00:46:18,714 --> 00:46:23,154
Speaker 2: Jessica Smith, and she's a former paralympian, a swimmer, and

904
00:46:23,194 --> 00:46:26,194
Speaker 2: she's lived in Dubai for years, and she's got three kids,

905
00:46:26,514 --> 00:46:31,033
Speaker 2: and she's been posting really interesting, sensible, sensitive stuff about

906
00:46:31,034 --> 00:46:33,194
Speaker 2: what it's like there at the minute, about the kind

907
00:46:33,194 --> 00:46:36,194
Speaker 2: of information that Aussies can get about the defact portal

908
00:46:36,194 --> 00:46:39,314
Speaker 2: that's been opened, Amelia and all those things. So that

909
00:46:39,514 --> 00:46:41,834
Speaker 2: kind of information coming out of social media is really

910
00:46:41,954 --> 00:46:46,434
Speaker 2: useful and interesting and gives you a window. It's not all,

911
00:46:46,994 --> 00:46:50,714
Speaker 2: you know, sort of very botox ladies screaming on balconies.

912
00:46:50,794 --> 00:46:53,034
Speaker 4: At the same time, I can see why there's an

913
00:46:53,074 --> 00:46:56,393
Speaker 4: interest in the influences because the holy is your original question.

914
00:46:56,394 --> 00:46:59,433
Speaker 4: You said, do they all have to become citizen war correspondence? No,

915
00:46:59,554 --> 00:47:02,154
Speaker 4: I don't think they do, but in essence they are.

916
00:47:02,394 --> 00:47:05,393
Speaker 4: That is what they are. And I have found it

917
00:47:05,474 --> 00:47:08,834
Speaker 4: really interesting to look at the content that these creators

918
00:47:08,834 --> 00:47:11,074
Speaker 4: are putting out right now to get a sense of

919
00:47:11,114 --> 00:47:13,514
Speaker 4: what it feels like on the ground. It's it's almost

920
00:47:13,514 --> 00:47:14,794
Speaker 4: hard to imagine the scope of.

921
00:47:14,754 --> 00:47:15,914
Speaker 1: It, guys.

922
00:47:15,954 --> 00:47:20,033
Speaker 3: An article in Sydney Morning Herald by Stacy Collino has

923
00:47:20,114 --> 00:47:23,594
Speaker 3: made me feel intense shame and I need some emotional support.

924
00:47:23,874 --> 00:47:27,953
Speaker 3: So it goes through the household items you really need

925
00:47:27,994 --> 00:47:31,674
Speaker 3: to replace, and everyone comes across these articles every few

926
00:47:31,714 --> 00:47:34,154
Speaker 3: months and I don't know, I meant to clean my

927
00:47:34,234 --> 00:47:37,033
Speaker 3: pillow case like once a week or something like. No,

928
00:47:37,154 --> 00:47:37,954
Speaker 3: it's not happening.

929
00:47:38,034 --> 00:47:38,794
Speaker 1: But this was.

930
00:47:39,354 --> 00:47:42,674
Speaker 3: It was divided into like rooms in your house. But

931
00:47:42,794 --> 00:47:46,154
Speaker 3: the section that really struck me was about your kitchen.

932
00:47:47,114 --> 00:47:53,674
Speaker 3: So about sponges. Apparently, perpetually damp sponges are breeding grounds

933
00:47:53,754 --> 00:47:57,393
Speaker 3: for bacteria. Who would have known, and they get to

934
00:47:57,474 --> 00:48:00,554
Speaker 3: really high numbers within three to four days, and you

935
00:48:00,594 --> 00:48:02,433
Speaker 3: can beautiful days. I know.

936
00:48:02,634 --> 00:48:05,434
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you said perpetually damp and not moist.

937
00:48:06,354 --> 00:48:09,834
Speaker 3: Perpetually that's what they are. I didn't know this. But

938
00:48:09,874 --> 00:48:12,714
Speaker 3: you can disinfect them by putting them in the microwave

939
00:48:12,754 --> 00:48:13,794
Speaker 3: for thirty seconds.

940
00:48:14,074 --> 00:48:20,634
Speaker 2: Yep, So disclosure in the oversharing department. I've discussed this

941
00:48:20,674 --> 00:48:22,314
Speaker 2: lately about how many pairs of pounds you packed to

942
00:48:22,314 --> 00:48:25,154
Speaker 2: go on holiday, blah blah blah, But how long do

943
00:48:25,154 --> 00:48:28,073
Speaker 2: you reckon a sponge lives on your sink. We're talking

944
00:48:28,074 --> 00:48:30,314
Speaker 2: about the ones with like the brillowpad on top right

945
00:48:30,354 --> 00:48:31,514
Speaker 2: and the yellow underneath.

946
00:48:32,394 --> 00:48:33,714
Speaker 3: It's all based on smell.

947
00:48:36,034 --> 00:48:37,794
Speaker 2: Grossing to admit, but often you'll be at the sink

948
00:48:37,834 --> 00:48:38,274
Speaker 2: and you'll be.

949
00:48:38,234 --> 00:48:41,194
Speaker 3: Like, You'll be like, oh, if it smells like cleaning product,

950
00:48:41,474 --> 00:48:46,354
Speaker 3: it's clean, right, So I reckon two weeks. Oh, it's

951
00:48:46,394 --> 00:48:47,913
Speaker 3: not a long time. It's not really.

952
00:48:48,274 --> 00:48:50,714
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a long time. But if your if your

953
00:48:50,754 --> 00:48:53,953
Speaker 2: sponge is looking pristine, I'm backing it. I merely he's

954
00:48:53,954 --> 00:48:56,754
Speaker 2: not going to share. She's a very proud I know,

955
00:48:56,034 --> 00:48:56,473
Speaker 2: don't think.

956
00:48:56,554 --> 00:48:56,913
Speaker 4: I know.

957
00:48:57,154 --> 00:48:59,234
Speaker 1: It's probably longer than two weeks.

958
00:48:59,954 --> 00:49:03,154
Speaker 3: Apparently you can also put them through the dishwasher.

959
00:49:03,754 --> 00:49:07,674
Speaker 2: You know, I never think of these, It's just was here.

960
00:49:07,754 --> 00:49:12,834
Speaker 2: She would be like landfill sustainability. Definitely keep reusing your sponges.

961
00:49:13,394 --> 00:49:16,074
Speaker 2: And I am terrible in that. Brent will use it

962
00:49:16,114 --> 00:49:17,714
Speaker 2: and use it, use it till it falls apart. And

963
00:49:17,754 --> 00:49:19,874
Speaker 2: I don't think that man is putting it in the microwave.

964
00:49:20,314 --> 00:49:25,154
Speaker 1: We've talked about Brent cutting the Brent. It's just a depression.

965
00:49:29,354 --> 00:49:31,474
Speaker 2: He will use it until it falls apart. I just

966
00:49:31,474 --> 00:49:33,234
Speaker 2: see them and go and throw them in the bin.

967
00:49:33,594 --> 00:49:35,034
Speaker 2: But now you tell me I can stick them in

968
00:49:35,074 --> 00:49:35,714
Speaker 2: the microwave.

969
00:49:36,194 --> 00:49:40,274
Speaker 3: Absolute hack. You also have to replace mop heads every

970
00:49:40,274 --> 00:49:43,074
Speaker 3: two to three months. Something I find really interesting about

971
00:49:43,634 --> 00:49:47,634
Speaker 3: life is when you buy a thing and then you

972
00:49:47,714 --> 00:49:50,634
Speaker 3: read the instructions for some weird reason and it says

973
00:49:50,714 --> 00:49:53,873
Speaker 3: that you have to replace a certain part, and I'm like,

974
00:49:53,954 --> 00:49:54,834
Speaker 3: who's doing that?

975
00:49:55,434 --> 00:49:57,434
Speaker 1: Sorry? What what's interesting about?

976
00:49:57,434 --> 00:50:01,074
Speaker 3: Like, like, okay, your vacuum cleaner, right, your vacuum cleaner.

977
00:50:01,114 --> 00:50:04,554
Speaker 3: We got a new vacuum cleaner recently. Huge looked at

978
00:50:04,554 --> 00:50:06,794
Speaker 3: the instructions and it's like, oh, there's a part of

979
00:50:06,794 --> 00:50:07,874
Speaker 3: your Oh yeah.

980
00:50:07,794 --> 00:50:10,714
Speaker 4: I get what you're saying. It's like, yeah, I got

981
00:50:10,754 --> 00:50:12,314
Speaker 4: what you're saying. We have I have a water pick,

982
00:50:12,634 --> 00:50:14,954
Speaker 4: you know that that like cleans in between your teeth,

983
00:50:15,354 --> 00:50:17,553
Speaker 4: And apparently I got to clean the water pick.

984
00:50:17,634 --> 00:50:20,114
Speaker 1: But the water picks for cleaning my teeth, that doesn't

985
00:50:20,114 --> 00:50:24,074
Speaker 1: make any sense. And it's always vinegar vinegar.

986
00:50:24,074 --> 00:50:28,873
Speaker 3: Or like baking pals, soda, baking soda, And I'm like,

987
00:50:28,874 --> 00:50:30,114
Speaker 3: who just has that in their cupboard?

988
00:50:30,354 --> 00:50:31,754
Speaker 2: Such domestic I know.

989
00:50:32,194 --> 00:50:35,714
Speaker 3: But also if you're cutting board has lots of cuts

990
00:50:35,794 --> 00:50:39,473
Speaker 3: or scratches, apparently it's time to replace it because those

991
00:50:39,594 --> 00:50:44,993
Speaker 3: indentations harbor bacteria that can make you listen bacteria not now,

992
00:50:45,274 --> 00:50:47,913
Speaker 3: I know, But what I want to know is, like

993
00:50:48,034 --> 00:50:50,593
Speaker 3: I'm picturing myself standing in my kitchen, which is also

994
00:50:50,634 --> 00:50:54,433
Speaker 3: my laund room and the mental load of thinking about

995
00:50:54,434 --> 00:50:58,554
Speaker 3: what's in all those cupboards. Do people keep lists or

996
00:50:58,634 --> 00:51:02,194
Speaker 3: schedules or timelines about like in six months, I have

997
00:51:02,274 --> 00:51:06,314
Speaker 3: to replace that, that mop in this I have to replace. Like,

998
00:51:06,354 --> 00:51:09,114
Speaker 3: I don't know how you know what people do.

999
00:51:09,194 --> 00:51:11,594
Speaker 4: There's a whole type of person who as the kettle

1000
00:51:11,674 --> 00:51:13,554
Speaker 4: is boiling, they do all the stuff.

1001
00:51:13,834 --> 00:51:15,194
Speaker 1: That's the whole type of person.

1002
00:51:15,634 --> 00:51:19,194
Speaker 4: Yeah, so they're like, unload the dishwasher, replaced the sponge

1003
00:51:19,194 --> 00:51:22,354
Speaker 4: poppet in the microwave, do some squats, and like then

1004
00:51:22,394 --> 00:51:23,234
Speaker 4: the kettle's boiled.

1005
00:51:23,594 --> 00:51:25,954
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're like so productive.

1006
00:51:25,994 --> 00:51:27,674
Speaker 3: I'll just order that part of that.

1007
00:51:27,874 --> 00:51:30,234
Speaker 4: It's better than just staring off into middle distance having

1008
00:51:30,274 --> 00:51:31,834
Speaker 4: existential fears.

1009
00:51:31,474 --> 00:51:35,393
Speaker 3: Right, Oh no doing that. I just stare out the

1010
00:51:35,434 --> 00:51:37,594
Speaker 3: window until the kettle tells me it's done.

1011
00:51:37,954 --> 00:51:42,234
Speaker 2: It's all economy. I like it. That's all we have

1012
00:51:42,274 --> 00:51:44,794
Speaker 2: time for out Louders on this Wednesday. Thank you so

1013
00:51:44,914 --> 00:51:48,794
Speaker 2: much to Plus Stevens, Emelia Lester, to our amazing team.

1014
00:51:49,474 --> 00:51:52,034
Speaker 2: We'll be back in your ears tomorrow. Actually, Amelia will

1015
00:51:52,074 --> 00:51:54,554
Speaker 2: be back in your ears tomorrow with Mia. What are

1016
00:51:54,594 --> 00:51:55,674
Speaker 2: you talking about tomorrow?

1017
00:51:55,874 --> 00:51:59,114
Speaker 4: Oh, it's a juicy one. Remember last week we talked

1018
00:51:59,154 --> 00:52:02,954
Speaker 4: about a letter from Vanessa, an out louder who asked

1019
00:52:02,954 --> 00:52:05,754
Speaker 4: for advice on whether she should quit her job to

1020
00:52:05,834 --> 00:52:09,554
Speaker 4: support her husband's very demanding job as they raise children.

1021
00:52:09,674 --> 00:52:12,034
Speaker 2: That thread and now Louders Facebook, is one of the

1022
00:52:12,074 --> 00:52:13,194
Speaker 2: best threads we've ever had.

1023
00:52:13,234 --> 00:52:16,954
Speaker 4: I'm just going to say that what Mia says really

1024
00:52:16,994 --> 00:52:19,074
Speaker 4: surprised me. I was not expecting it.

1025
00:52:19,754 --> 00:52:23,674
Speaker 2: Okay, that's going to be on the subscriber show. A

1026
00:52:23,754 --> 00:52:26,154
Speaker 2: massive thanks to our incredible team for helping us put

1027
00:52:26,194 --> 00:52:31,354
Speaker 2: the show together and look, Ruth divine our exceptional group EP.

1028
00:52:32,074 --> 00:52:34,473
Speaker 2: She tried to get away with us, not knowing it

1029
00:52:34,514 --> 00:52:38,634
Speaker 2: was her birthday. Oh but out Louders, I know you

1030
00:52:38,634 --> 00:52:40,714
Speaker 2: would want us to make a fuss of her on

1031
00:52:40,754 --> 00:52:42,953
Speaker 2: her special day because she's amazing and she keeps us

1032
00:52:42,954 --> 00:52:46,554
Speaker 2: all running. So happy birthday, Ruth from us and all

1033
00:52:46,634 --> 00:52:47,514
Speaker 2: of the out Louders.

1034
00:52:47,554 --> 00:52:48,634
Speaker 3: Have the best day.

1035
00:52:48,914 --> 00:52:56,314
Speaker 1: Ah Mamma.

1036
00:52:56,394 --> 00:52:59,234
Speaker 2: Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which

1037
00:52:59,274 --> 00:53:00,873
Speaker 2: we have recorded this podcast.