1 00:00:10,365 --> 00:00:13,085 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,885 --> 00:00:16,885 Speaker 2: Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:16,885 --> 00:00:18,485 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:18,685 --> 00:00:21,565 Speaker 3: That is the saving grace of being in a band. 5 00:00:22,365 --> 00:00:24,885 Speaker 3: There's no one else on the planet. There's five people 6 00:00:24,965 --> 00:00:26,885 Speaker 3: who know what it's like to be a Spice Girl, 7 00:00:27,205 --> 00:00:29,765 Speaker 3: and even the five of us have very different experiences 8 00:00:29,805 --> 00:00:32,965 Speaker 3: of the same thing. But we knew it was so 9 00:00:33,045 --> 00:00:37,965 Speaker 3: important for us to be there for each other. Sometimes 10 00:00:37,965 --> 00:00:40,245 Speaker 3: that was a toxic environment. We put a lot of 11 00:00:40,285 --> 00:00:44,165 Speaker 3: pressure on ourselves and each other, but fundamentally we have 12 00:00:44,285 --> 00:00:47,645 Speaker 3: each other's back, you know. To this day, if someone 13 00:00:47,725 --> 00:00:49,685 Speaker 3: messes with one of the Spice Girls, you have to 14 00:00:49,685 --> 00:00:52,205 Speaker 3: deal with the other four, you know, and to have 15 00:00:52,245 --> 00:00:53,885 Speaker 3: that is pretty incredible. 16 00:01:02,125 --> 00:01:06,565 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm kateline Brook. Welcome to No Filter Ah. 17 00:01:06,845 --> 00:01:13,045 Speaker 2: The nineties a time of double denim, crimped hair, the 18 00:01:13,205 --> 00:01:19,525 Speaker 2: Rachel haircut, and the unstoppable rise of girl bands. And 19 00:01:19,565 --> 00:01:22,565 Speaker 2: one name you would remember is Melanie chishlm or maybe 20 00:01:22,805 --> 00:01:29,005 Speaker 2: better known as Melsey or the most known as Sporty Spice. 21 00:01:29,165 --> 00:01:31,565 Speaker 2: At just twenty years old, a flyer led her to 22 00:01:31,645 --> 00:01:35,685 Speaker 2: audition for a girl group, and after countless rounds of auditions. 23 00:01:35,725 --> 00:01:39,485 Speaker 2: She would go on to join Ginger, Baby, Scary and 24 00:01:39,605 --> 00:01:43,685 Speaker 2: Posh to complete the Spice Girls, a group that would 25 00:01:43,685 --> 00:01:47,805 Speaker 2: go on to define a generation. In this conversation, I 26 00:01:47,845 --> 00:01:50,965 Speaker 2: had the privilege of sitting down with Melsey as she 27 00:01:51,085 --> 00:01:54,125 Speaker 2: pulled back the curtain on an industry that was evolving 28 00:01:54,845 --> 00:01:58,765 Speaker 2: just as quickly as she was. While the Spice Girls 29 00:01:58,805 --> 00:02:01,165 Speaker 2: were spreading the message of girl power to the world, 30 00:02:02,125 --> 00:02:05,965 Speaker 2: behind the scenes, she was struggling to find her own identity. 31 00:02:06,685 --> 00:02:08,765 Speaker 1: Among the incredible highs. 32 00:02:08,885 --> 00:02:12,325 Speaker 2: Bonding with the women she calls sisters for life, there 33 00:02:12,325 --> 00:02:16,965 Speaker 2: were also deeply challenging moments. The pressure of fame took 34 00:02:17,005 --> 00:02:21,405 Speaker 2: a toll, with scars that wouldn't fully reveal themselves until 35 00:02:21,685 --> 00:02:25,965 Speaker 2: years after the band had broken up. But Mel's story 36 00:02:26,205 --> 00:02:30,405 Speaker 2: isn't just about the struggles. She spent years unpacking that 37 00:02:30,565 --> 00:02:34,325 Speaker 2: time in her life, making sense of the highs and lows, 38 00:02:34,405 --> 00:02:37,805 Speaker 2: and coming to a place of real understanding. And now 39 00:02:38,485 --> 00:02:41,485 Speaker 2: she looks back on her Spy Sgirl's days with a 40 00:02:41,525 --> 00:02:45,805 Speaker 2: mix of gratitude and honesty, proud of what they achieved, 41 00:02:46,485 --> 00:02:49,885 Speaker 2: but also clear eyed about the challenges that came with it. 42 00:02:50,845 --> 00:02:54,165 Speaker 2: We talk about life after the spyegirls, how the message 43 00:02:54,205 --> 00:02:57,525 Speaker 2: of girl power still lives on today, and whether her 44 00:02:57,605 --> 00:03:03,005 Speaker 2: daughter might ever want to follow in her footsteps. Get ready, 45 00:03:03,125 --> 00:03:09,685 Speaker 2: This conversation is about to spice up your life litive 46 00:03:09,765 --> 00:03:15,085 Speaker 2: concept happiness. But I'm very happy to see you, and 47 00:03:15,125 --> 00:03:18,845 Speaker 2: our listeners on No Filter will be so happy to 48 00:03:18,965 --> 00:03:24,325 Speaker 2: welcome you, Melanie Chisholm to No Filter. Well, thank you 49 00:03:24,445 --> 00:03:26,845 Speaker 2: very much for having me. And of course I could 50 00:03:26,845 --> 00:03:31,645 Speaker 2: also call you mil c in relation to another male me, 51 00:03:33,365 --> 00:03:37,165 Speaker 2: or I could call you sporty. You could all of 52 00:03:37,205 --> 00:03:42,085 Speaker 2: the above. And who do you think of yourself as? Oh, 53 00:03:42,245 --> 00:03:43,205 Speaker 2: that's a good question. 54 00:03:43,565 --> 00:03:45,405 Speaker 3: I think I had a bit of a hard time 55 00:03:45,445 --> 00:03:48,365 Speaker 3: with Melcy for a while because that's how I was 56 00:03:48,405 --> 00:03:52,445 Speaker 3: often referred to in the tabloids, so that sometimes had 57 00:03:52,445 --> 00:03:56,565 Speaker 3: a bit of a negative, you know vibe. I'm Melanie, 58 00:03:56,605 --> 00:04:01,685 Speaker 3: funnily enough to most people now and not many people 59 00:04:01,685 --> 00:04:04,565 Speaker 3: call me male but my old school friends or my mum. 60 00:04:05,125 --> 00:04:08,205 Speaker 3: And I'm always sporty. Yes, you're always sporty. 61 00:04:08,285 --> 00:04:15,325 Speaker 2: And how interesting to find out that you really properly 62 00:04:15,405 --> 00:04:18,725 Speaker 2: always were sporty and that that wasn't an affectation for 63 00:04:18,765 --> 00:04:19,605 Speaker 2: the Spice girls. 64 00:04:19,965 --> 00:04:22,805 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think That's probably one of the biggest misconceptions 65 00:04:22,845 --> 00:04:25,205 Speaker 3: about the Space Girls, you know, because people often in 66 00:04:25,205 --> 00:04:27,485 Speaker 3: interviews will ask us, you know, when, how did you 67 00:04:27,485 --> 00:04:29,925 Speaker 3: feel about your name and having to live up to 68 00:04:30,005 --> 00:04:32,885 Speaker 3: this thing, and it's like, well, we were given the names. 69 00:04:33,005 --> 00:04:34,085 Speaker 1: It was a little bit of a joke. 70 00:04:34,165 --> 00:04:36,205 Speaker 3: It was in a magazine in the UK, and it 71 00:04:36,285 --> 00:04:38,405 Speaker 3: was just a bit of a throwaway article, but they 72 00:04:38,565 --> 00:04:41,765 Speaker 3: just stuck and the journalists that came up with the names, 73 00:04:42,005 --> 00:04:44,325 Speaker 3: he'd done it, whether it was on our appearance or 74 00:04:44,645 --> 00:04:48,565 Speaker 3: on our personality, and we loved it. And we actually 75 00:04:48,605 --> 00:04:52,125 Speaker 3: now laugh at ourselves and each other because we are 76 00:04:52,245 --> 00:04:54,165 Speaker 3: so those people know. 77 00:04:55,165 --> 00:04:56,725 Speaker 1: There's there's no getting away from it. 78 00:04:56,805 --> 00:04:59,365 Speaker 3: We've almost like become you know when you get older 79 00:04:59,405 --> 00:05:04,045 Speaker 3: sometimes and people become more of who they are. Yes, annoying, 80 00:05:04,085 --> 00:05:05,885 Speaker 3: people get more annoying. 81 00:05:05,965 --> 00:05:08,925 Speaker 2: You become more sick in the shape of yourself. 82 00:05:09,085 --> 00:05:11,725 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's what the Spice Girls have done. 83 00:05:11,845 --> 00:05:15,165 Speaker 3: And so I've never not wanted to be sporty, and 84 00:05:15,405 --> 00:05:17,525 Speaker 3: I think now more than ever, I celebrate it. 85 00:05:18,245 --> 00:05:18,485 Speaker 1: You know. 86 00:05:18,525 --> 00:05:21,285 Speaker 2: It was interesting because the guy you were talking about 87 00:05:21,325 --> 00:05:23,245 Speaker 2: that was the editor of the what was the Top 88 00:05:23,245 --> 00:05:29,525 Speaker 2: of the Pops Meadage exactly, actual genius that he took 89 00:05:29,965 --> 00:05:32,005 Speaker 2: all of you. They took the five of you at 90 00:05:32,005 --> 00:05:36,165 Speaker 2: that time. And were you performing then or were you 91 00:05:36,205 --> 00:05:39,725 Speaker 2: still in that hiddy period where you were building up 92 00:05:39,805 --> 00:05:42,885 Speaker 2: to the launch of your album? 93 00:05:43,045 --> 00:05:47,405 Speaker 3: Was literally yet we were meeting editors and record companies 94 00:05:47,445 --> 00:05:49,085 Speaker 3: and so it was like it was the big build 95 00:05:49,125 --> 00:05:51,165 Speaker 3: up before the first single was released. 96 00:05:51,365 --> 00:05:54,405 Speaker 2: Incredible because I have to say he nailed you all 97 00:05:54,765 --> 00:05:55,485 Speaker 2: in a nice way. 98 00:05:55,845 --> 00:05:56,125 Speaker 1: He did. 99 00:05:57,245 --> 00:06:02,245 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, yeah, different, he'd be barking up. But so 100 00:06:02,925 --> 00:06:04,965 Speaker 3: Peter Lorraine is the guy. We should give him a 101 00:06:05,005 --> 00:06:09,525 Speaker 3: name Chase. Actually, he's a very successful music manager now 102 00:06:10,245 --> 00:06:13,045 Speaker 3: and he looks after some great artists in the UK. 103 00:06:13,285 --> 00:06:16,605 Speaker 3: He's just actually got a great award, a music Award 104 00:06:17,005 --> 00:06:20,765 Speaker 3: for all of his services to music. So obviously he 105 00:06:20,765 --> 00:06:23,685 Speaker 3: has always had that passion for music and just a 106 00:06:23,765 --> 00:06:25,005 Speaker 3: really good air and day. 107 00:06:25,805 --> 00:06:30,405 Speaker 2: Well, going back to the formation of the Spice Girls, 108 00:06:30,685 --> 00:06:34,805 Speaker 2: it was such a it feels like it encompassed well 109 00:06:34,805 --> 00:06:37,085 Speaker 2: because it goes through it all today. Really, I guess 110 00:06:37,085 --> 00:06:42,125 Speaker 2: that's why that it's left such a huge footprint culturally 111 00:06:42,245 --> 00:06:50,565 Speaker 2: on music, on fashion, on really on gender studies as well. 112 00:06:51,485 --> 00:06:55,085 Speaker 2: But you grew up in a really in a working 113 00:06:55,125 --> 00:06:59,805 Speaker 2: class home, you had a loving family, you had the 114 00:06:59,885 --> 00:07:03,085 Speaker 2: shock of a divorce in the family, or when your 115 00:07:03,125 --> 00:07:08,085 Speaker 2: mum left your dad. So tell me about that little 116 00:07:08,125 --> 00:07:13,845 Speaker 2: girl and watch she did and what she felt that 117 00:07:14,045 --> 00:07:17,245 Speaker 2: meant that, like, not even two decades laid that she 118 00:07:18,245 --> 00:07:21,005 Speaker 2: was confident enough to front one of the biggest outfits 119 00:07:21,005 --> 00:07:21,525 Speaker 2: in the world. 120 00:07:22,445 --> 00:07:25,525 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it looking back to your childhood, 121 00:07:25,565 --> 00:07:27,605 Speaker 3: because obviously it's all you know. 122 00:07:28,205 --> 00:07:30,805 Speaker 1: You know, your normality is normal. 123 00:07:31,405 --> 00:07:34,925 Speaker 3: But with hindsight, you know, I think about a lot 124 00:07:34,965 --> 00:07:40,685 Speaker 3: of my traits, and you know, I do believe from 125 00:07:40,725 --> 00:07:45,405 Speaker 3: those experiences I have become very determined. I really wanted 126 00:07:45,445 --> 00:07:49,685 Speaker 3: to succeed. I feel very lucky in finding my passion 127 00:07:49,805 --> 00:07:53,125 Speaker 3: early in life. I've always loved performing. My mum's also 128 00:07:53,165 --> 00:07:56,325 Speaker 3: a singer, so I'd looked up to her. I kind 129 00:07:56,365 --> 00:07:59,605 Speaker 3: of idolized her in a way. But because my mum 130 00:07:59,645 --> 00:08:03,125 Speaker 3: and dad weren't together, they both went on to remarry 131 00:08:03,245 --> 00:08:06,765 Speaker 3: and have families. I'm the only child of their relationship. 132 00:08:07,325 --> 00:08:10,525 Speaker 3: I sometimes felt alone in the world, so that made 133 00:08:10,565 --> 00:08:13,965 Speaker 3: me feel quite isolated, and I almost felt like I 134 00:08:13,965 --> 00:08:17,005 Speaker 3: had to fight for my place in this world, and 135 00:08:17,365 --> 00:08:20,685 Speaker 3: you know that's for good and for bad, but I 136 00:08:20,685 --> 00:08:22,925 Speaker 3: think it's definitely one of the factors that gave me 137 00:08:22,965 --> 00:08:25,805 Speaker 3: the drive that I have to continue to work in 138 00:08:25,925 --> 00:08:30,565 Speaker 3: music and to have had the tenacity to get there 139 00:08:30,565 --> 00:08:31,325 Speaker 3: in the first place. 140 00:08:32,045 --> 00:08:34,525 Speaker 2: It's interesting because one of the themes that kind of 141 00:08:34,645 --> 00:08:40,605 Speaker 2: underpins your whole story and to this day is that 142 00:08:41,245 --> 00:08:46,045 Speaker 2: working drive. You're such a hard worker, you come from 143 00:08:46,085 --> 00:08:50,725 Speaker 2: a family of hard workers, and yet when you're thrown 144 00:08:50,925 --> 00:08:55,325 Speaker 2: into well something it didn't exist at the time, but 145 00:08:55,685 --> 00:08:58,365 Speaker 2: we know in retrospect came to be such an amazing 146 00:08:58,405 --> 00:09:01,485 Speaker 2: thing where there is the option of not working and 147 00:09:01,605 --> 00:09:04,925 Speaker 2: embracing this life in which all the riches in the 148 00:09:04,925 --> 00:09:08,205 Speaker 2: world are thrust at you with some downsides as well. 149 00:09:09,365 --> 00:09:12,325 Speaker 2: How did you navigate that part of us? 150 00:09:12,805 --> 00:09:13,005 Speaker 1: Wow? 151 00:09:13,205 --> 00:09:18,645 Speaker 3: I think we all navigated the experience in slightly different ways. 152 00:09:19,325 --> 00:09:23,365 Speaker 3: And I think again probably from my background, you know, 153 00:09:23,445 --> 00:09:27,165 Speaker 3: being working class from the north of England and my 154 00:09:27,285 --> 00:09:30,965 Speaker 3: dad's side of the family being Irish Catholic, so there 155 00:09:31,005 --> 00:09:34,885 Speaker 3: was a lot of guilt in that community. Yeah, and 156 00:09:35,285 --> 00:09:37,565 Speaker 3: also a bit of like don't get above your station, 157 00:09:38,005 --> 00:09:41,645 Speaker 3: you know. So even though I had become successful, there 158 00:09:41,725 --> 00:09:46,045 Speaker 3: was always guilt in that I came from very little financially, 159 00:09:46,405 --> 00:09:48,925 Speaker 3: so when I was earning good money, it was like 160 00:09:48,965 --> 00:09:51,285 Speaker 3: I had to justify that. I had to justify that 161 00:09:51,405 --> 00:09:54,285 Speaker 3: to myself, you know, to my family. So I couldn't 162 00:09:54,325 --> 00:09:57,565 Speaker 3: rest on my laurels. I had to be the absolute 163 00:09:57,805 --> 00:10:02,045 Speaker 3: best I could possibly be, to be worthy of all 164 00:10:02,085 --> 00:10:04,325 Speaker 3: of these incredible things that were happening to me. And 165 00:10:04,365 --> 00:10:07,005 Speaker 3: that can be exhausting, you know, that can be a 166 00:10:07,125 --> 00:10:09,245 Speaker 3: huge burden. And it took a long time for me 167 00:10:09,445 --> 00:10:13,165 Speaker 3: to acknowledge and recognize that. And you know, it's I 168 00:10:13,245 --> 00:10:15,045 Speaker 3: think it's kind of part of your DNA, so it 169 00:10:15,085 --> 00:10:19,845 Speaker 3: never goes away, but I think it's it's important before you, 170 00:10:19,845 --> 00:10:23,165 Speaker 3: you know, drive yourself into an early grave by working 171 00:10:23,205 --> 00:10:26,605 Speaker 3: yourself to death, that you are aware if that's how 172 00:10:26,685 --> 00:10:27,485 Speaker 3: you are driven. 173 00:10:28,525 --> 00:10:32,965 Speaker 2: You were always primarily a dancer, also interested in singing, 174 00:10:33,125 --> 00:10:35,725 Speaker 2: so you had the showbies. You had the sole roots 175 00:10:35,725 --> 00:10:39,685 Speaker 2: from your mom. You had that instinct. So the end 176 00:10:39,765 --> 00:10:43,645 Speaker 2: game for people in showbies is to achieve some degree 177 00:10:43,645 --> 00:10:47,325 Speaker 2: of success. You know, that's what we all want, but 178 00:10:47,405 --> 00:10:52,845 Speaker 2: that can also destroy us. Do you think the guilt 179 00:10:53,045 --> 00:10:57,085 Speaker 2: of success is a part of it? Is like the 180 00:10:57,245 --> 00:11:00,205 Speaker 2: shadow the shadow behind the mirror. 181 00:11:01,525 --> 00:11:05,365 Speaker 3: I think it has been for a period of my life. 182 00:11:06,045 --> 00:11:08,805 Speaker 3: And as I've got older and I you know, I've 183 00:11:08,845 --> 00:11:12,605 Speaker 3: had lots of issues, and like lots of people, you know, 184 00:11:12,765 --> 00:11:15,165 Speaker 3: as we grow up and we figure out who we are, 185 00:11:15,245 --> 00:11:17,205 Speaker 3: I had lots of things that I had to acknowledge 186 00:11:17,245 --> 00:11:20,525 Speaker 3: and never come. I've had lots of talking therapy, and 187 00:11:21,925 --> 00:11:26,405 Speaker 3: as I'm older now, I definitely have left that behind. 188 00:11:27,045 --> 00:11:27,245 Speaker 1: You know. 189 00:11:27,845 --> 00:11:33,085 Speaker 3: I work hard, and I deserve the good things that 190 00:11:33,125 --> 00:11:35,925 Speaker 3: happen to me. It's not all good. Sometimes shit comes 191 00:11:35,925 --> 00:11:38,005 Speaker 3: my way and I will deal with that too. But 192 00:11:38,125 --> 00:11:41,885 Speaker 3: I think I finally am very proud of myself and 193 00:11:42,005 --> 00:11:45,485 Speaker 3: my achievements, and that's okay. You know, it sounds ridiculous, 194 00:11:45,525 --> 00:11:48,765 Speaker 3: doesn't it. I think it's such a British thing as well, 195 00:11:49,125 --> 00:11:52,245 Speaker 3: and you know, I'm getting to know Australian and Australians more, 196 00:11:52,525 --> 00:11:55,885 Speaker 3: but I think we're quite similar as cultures. And I 197 00:11:56,005 --> 00:11:59,525 Speaker 3: don't think it's cool to think you're the Besnys or 198 00:11:59,565 --> 00:12:02,445 Speaker 3: behave like that, you know, I think it is. It's 199 00:12:02,485 --> 00:12:06,085 Speaker 3: definitely a very British thing. But now I think it's 200 00:12:06,085 --> 00:12:09,205 Speaker 3: important that we do acknowledge our success. 201 00:12:09,645 --> 00:12:10,685 Speaker 1: I'm being worthy of it. 202 00:12:11,125 --> 00:12:14,005 Speaker 2: Well, it's an interesting thing because I think you have 203 00:12:14,085 --> 00:12:17,325 Speaker 2: to have enough ego to be able to stand up 204 00:12:17,525 --> 00:12:20,485 Speaker 2: and present yourself in your case to the world. 205 00:12:21,445 --> 00:12:27,085 Speaker 1: But if you have too much ego, it will destroy you. Yeah. 206 00:12:27,125 --> 00:12:30,365 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And you always seem to have come from this 207 00:12:30,525 --> 00:12:33,725 Speaker 2: place of I'm not going to say self deprecating, but 208 00:12:33,765 --> 00:12:38,445 Speaker 2: you're very humble about your achievements. Like even when I 209 00:12:38,485 --> 00:12:41,605 Speaker 2: was reading your book, you never really talk about how 210 00:12:42,165 --> 00:12:44,925 Speaker 2: naturally talented you were, because you must have been, because 211 00:12:44,965 --> 00:12:47,685 Speaker 2: even as a child you were winning dance competitions. You 212 00:12:47,725 --> 00:12:53,805 Speaker 2: always focus on how hard you worked. So interesting, isn't it? 213 00:12:54,205 --> 00:12:55,125 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. 214 00:12:55,525 --> 00:12:58,885 Speaker 2: And yet when that moment came, and I'd love you 215 00:12:58,925 --> 00:13:02,485 Speaker 2: to tell me about this, when you went off with 216 00:13:02,565 --> 00:13:06,245 Speaker 2: your girlfriend to go to the cruise audition where you're like, 217 00:13:06,405 --> 00:13:09,085 Speaker 2: I need work, I'll audition to be a cruise dancer. 218 00:13:10,405 --> 00:13:13,805 Speaker 2: There was a guy handing out flyers. This was in 219 00:13:13,925 --> 00:13:18,165 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four. It was yeah, and what did the 220 00:13:18,165 --> 00:13:19,005 Speaker 2: flyers say? 221 00:13:19,805 --> 00:13:23,725 Speaker 3: So it said something along the lines of are you 222 00:13:24,405 --> 00:13:25,805 Speaker 3: eighteen to twenty four? 223 00:13:26,325 --> 00:13:29,685 Speaker 1: Can you dance? Sing? Are you street wise? 224 00:13:31,925 --> 00:13:35,085 Speaker 3: I mean it goes on, but basically it was an 225 00:13:35,125 --> 00:13:38,845 Speaker 3: audition for a girl band. So that was it. That 226 00:13:39,005 --> 00:13:40,845 Speaker 3: was the thing I wanted to do. I didn't want 227 00:13:40,845 --> 00:13:41,885 Speaker 3: to be dancing on cruises. 228 00:13:42,245 --> 00:13:46,525 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you knew when you looked at that piece 229 00:13:46,565 --> 00:13:53,525 Speaker 2: of paper, you knew with all certainty that it meant something. 230 00:13:55,045 --> 00:13:55,285 Speaker 1: Yeah. 231 00:13:55,525 --> 00:13:58,285 Speaker 3: It was the first time I'd ever seen a flyer 232 00:13:58,525 --> 00:14:01,765 Speaker 3: or an ad for an audition like that. And you know, 233 00:14:01,845 --> 00:14:05,645 Speaker 3: being a dancer, I was auditioning for theater performances and 234 00:14:05,725 --> 00:14:08,005 Speaker 3: you know, lots of different things. But yeah, I'd never 235 00:14:08,085 --> 00:14:11,765 Speaker 3: had something which was for the music industry, and that 236 00:14:11,925 --> 00:14:14,685 Speaker 3: was really what I wanted to do. I just knew 237 00:14:14,685 --> 00:14:17,405 Speaker 3: it was really difficult to get there. So when I 238 00:14:17,445 --> 00:14:19,565 Speaker 3: saw that, that's when I you know, it's so weird 239 00:14:19,605 --> 00:14:23,245 Speaker 3: because I literally, you know, vividly remember the setting and 240 00:14:23,805 --> 00:14:25,845 Speaker 3: the dance studio is still there in London. Actually, it's 241 00:14:25,885 --> 00:14:29,365 Speaker 3: just across the road from Selfridges on Oxford Street, and 242 00:14:29,405 --> 00:14:31,045 Speaker 3: I remember turning to her. She was on my right, 243 00:14:31,365 --> 00:14:33,565 Speaker 3: and I just went, that's it. That's what I'm going 244 00:14:33,645 --> 00:14:36,085 Speaker 3: to do. And that went on eventually to become the 245 00:14:36,125 --> 00:14:39,885 Speaker 3: Spice guest. And so you go to this audition. How 246 00:14:39,925 --> 00:14:41,845 Speaker 3: many girls are they who can sing and dance? Who 247 00:14:41,885 --> 00:14:45,845 Speaker 3: believe themselves to be straight smart. I think there was 248 00:14:45,885 --> 00:14:48,725 Speaker 3: a few hundred. You know, it wasn't in its thousands, 249 00:14:48,765 --> 00:14:51,765 Speaker 3: it was in its hundreds. But yeah, and it was 250 00:14:51,805 --> 00:14:55,245 Speaker 3: pretty brutal. You know, working in entertainment, as you will 251 00:14:55,285 --> 00:14:57,725 Speaker 3: well know, you know, we have a lot of disappointments 252 00:14:58,285 --> 00:15:01,085 Speaker 3: and we have to have quite a thick skin from 253 00:15:01,085 --> 00:15:03,685 Speaker 3: the get go. You know, you're probably going to get 254 00:15:03,685 --> 00:15:06,485 Speaker 3: told no more than you're going to get told yeah, 255 00:15:06,645 --> 00:15:08,685 Speaker 3: you know, or come back, we want to see you again, 256 00:15:08,885 --> 00:15:11,925 Speaker 3: and you're prepared for that. Yeah, but this particular time, 257 00:15:12,085 --> 00:15:14,445 Speaker 3: I did get asked to come back and we just 258 00:15:14,485 --> 00:15:16,005 Speaker 3: had to dance. I mean it was you know, it 259 00:15:16,045 --> 00:15:18,525 Speaker 3: was very much on the way you looked initially and 260 00:15:18,565 --> 00:15:20,565 Speaker 3: the way that you moved, and then you were asked 261 00:15:20,605 --> 00:15:22,405 Speaker 3: to come back and sing, and. 262 00:15:22,285 --> 00:15:24,245 Speaker 2: Then how did you look at that time? 263 00:15:24,445 --> 00:15:25,445 Speaker 1: Like what was your look? 264 00:15:25,965 --> 00:15:30,845 Speaker 3: My little luck you can find it online somewhere. So 265 00:15:30,885 --> 00:15:33,005 Speaker 3: they were filming us. I had I think I had 266 00:15:33,005 --> 00:15:36,885 Speaker 3: a little bob it was pre Posh's bob. And I 267 00:15:36,885 --> 00:15:38,325 Speaker 3: think I had like a little bit of a red, 268 00:15:38,725 --> 00:15:42,405 Speaker 3: like a henna color my hair, and yeah, I had 269 00:15:42,405 --> 00:15:46,765 Speaker 3: like a lilac little cropped terrible Tark. I had no 270 00:15:46,885 --> 00:15:50,605 Speaker 3: money at the time, bless me. Yeah, little pair of jeans, 271 00:15:50,845 --> 00:15:55,125 Speaker 3: probably some little trainers, but yeah, it was my best outfit. 272 00:15:55,245 --> 00:15:57,365 Speaker 3: It's the best sec of muster up on that particular day. 273 00:15:57,965 --> 00:16:01,445 Speaker 2: And speaking of the posh Bob, you actually saw her 274 00:16:02,405 --> 00:16:05,765 Speaker 2: in the audition, so she was one of the hundreds 275 00:16:05,765 --> 00:16:06,085 Speaker 2: of girls. 276 00:16:06,165 --> 00:16:07,765 Speaker 1: She was one of the girls. 277 00:16:07,845 --> 00:16:12,125 Speaker 3: So on that day, I think myself, Melby and Victoria 278 00:16:12,165 --> 00:16:15,565 Speaker 3: were there and danced and sung for the management team. 279 00:16:16,205 --> 00:16:18,925 Speaker 3: But it was later on because Jerry I think she 280 00:16:19,045 --> 00:16:21,765 Speaker 3: missed that day but came later down the line. And 281 00:16:21,765 --> 00:16:25,005 Speaker 3: then Emma was the missing piece of the jigsaw who 282 00:16:25,005 --> 00:16:27,045 Speaker 3: didn't come in to the band for a couple of 283 00:16:27,045 --> 00:16:27,605 Speaker 3: months later. 284 00:16:28,045 --> 00:16:30,405 Speaker 1: And because initially and I didn't know this, so you. 285 00:16:30,365 --> 00:16:33,525 Speaker 3: Were called touch ah that was yeah, that was kind 286 00:16:33,525 --> 00:16:35,005 Speaker 3: of our work in progress. 287 00:16:34,565 --> 00:16:40,405 Speaker 2: Nowt Yeah, and then you missed getting cast originally because 288 00:16:40,405 --> 00:16:41,365 Speaker 2: of your tonsils. 289 00:16:41,645 --> 00:16:46,445 Speaker 3: Yes, I had horrific tonselitis as a kid, and yeah, 290 00:16:46,485 --> 00:16:49,125 Speaker 3: and you know, being a student, living in not the 291 00:16:49,125 --> 00:16:53,725 Speaker 3: best conditions and being in dirty dance studios all the time, 292 00:16:54,125 --> 00:16:57,285 Speaker 3: I was just yeah, getting it every five minutes, and 293 00:16:57,365 --> 00:16:59,885 Speaker 3: I just happened to be sick when the recall audition 294 00:17:00,125 --> 00:17:03,525 Speaker 3: was and my mum begged them to give me an 295 00:17:03,525 --> 00:17:05,885 Speaker 3: opportunity to get better and come back and see them, 296 00:17:05,965 --> 00:17:09,645 Speaker 3: but they wouldn't have it. But luckily for me, not 297 00:17:09,725 --> 00:17:12,125 Speaker 3: so much to the other person, one of the girls 298 00:17:12,205 --> 00:17:15,165 Speaker 3: they'd cast it, they didn't feel like it worked out, 299 00:17:15,285 --> 00:17:17,445 Speaker 3: so they asked me to come along and then that 300 00:17:17,525 --> 00:17:17,725 Speaker 3: was it. 301 00:17:17,845 --> 00:17:18,285 Speaker 1: I was in. 302 00:17:22,125 --> 00:17:24,725 Speaker 2: Melsey has much more to share about her time in 303 00:17:24,765 --> 00:17:30,245 Speaker 2: the Spice Girls, from building momentum to stratospheric fame and 304 00:17:30,485 --> 00:17:34,925 Speaker 2: just who turned down signing the pop group don't go anywhere. 305 00:17:37,925 --> 00:17:40,685 Speaker 2: You know those moments and they're very rare in my 306 00:17:40,845 --> 00:17:44,965 Speaker 2: life anyway. You know, where you know something with a certainty, 307 00:17:45,205 --> 00:17:50,405 Speaker 2: it's almost like a premonition that's a strong as certainty 308 00:17:52,085 --> 00:17:55,325 Speaker 2: in that gap between when you didn't get in the 309 00:17:55,365 --> 00:17:58,365 Speaker 2: girl group that you'd been so certain when you saw 310 00:17:58,405 --> 00:18:03,445 Speaker 2: the flyer, in that intervening period until the phone rang 311 00:18:03,525 --> 00:18:06,205 Speaker 2: and they said, guess what, one of the girls is 312 00:18:06,205 --> 00:18:06,685 Speaker 2: not right? 313 00:18:07,165 --> 00:18:10,445 Speaker 1: Will you come back in? Yeah? How was that period? 314 00:18:10,485 --> 00:18:11,405 Speaker 1: What were you doing then? 315 00:18:11,445 --> 00:18:14,045 Speaker 2: Were you three thinking I should have done the cruise 316 00:18:14,085 --> 00:18:16,005 Speaker 2: audition or no? 317 00:18:16,165 --> 00:18:19,045 Speaker 3: Because I was still adamant that that wasn't the direction 318 00:18:19,125 --> 00:18:21,565 Speaker 3: I wanted to go in. And I think those moments 319 00:18:21,565 --> 00:18:24,325 Speaker 3: in your life are really hard, and it's really hard 320 00:18:24,485 --> 00:18:27,805 Speaker 3: to kind of trust your instinct at those times, isn't it, 321 00:18:27,885 --> 00:18:30,805 Speaker 3: Because it's like, oh, I was so certain this was 322 00:18:30,845 --> 00:18:34,285 Speaker 3: the one, and as well because I've been ill, so 323 00:18:34,405 --> 00:18:36,525 Speaker 3: I think I was just like, well, I just got 324 00:18:36,565 --> 00:18:39,365 Speaker 3: to get myself better. And I think, you know, being 325 00:18:39,485 --> 00:18:41,845 Speaker 3: young and wanting to work in entertainment, I would just 326 00:18:42,085 --> 00:18:43,605 Speaker 3: had that. 327 00:18:44,765 --> 00:18:48,085 Speaker 1: You know, you just have to get on with it. 328 00:18:48,405 --> 00:18:50,525 Speaker 3: You can't let it get you down because there's always 329 00:18:50,525 --> 00:18:53,965 Speaker 3: another audition, there's always another opportunity. If you let those 330 00:18:54,005 --> 00:18:55,485 Speaker 3: things get to you, you'd never get anywhere. 331 00:18:56,365 --> 00:19:00,485 Speaker 2: So then you found yourself cast and at that statue 332 00:19:00,605 --> 00:19:05,925 Speaker 2: was another member of the band touch Yes, Yes, a 333 00:19:05,925 --> 00:19:10,125 Speaker 2: girl called Michelle, and then she eventually got got subbed out. 334 00:19:10,125 --> 00:19:13,765 Speaker 2: When you were willing to living in a house together 335 00:19:13,805 --> 00:19:19,565 Speaker 2: and rehearsing these routines and writing music together then or. 336 00:19:19,565 --> 00:19:22,205 Speaker 3: Yeah, so well at the time, so it's like it's 337 00:19:22,605 --> 00:19:27,005 Speaker 3: quite complicated story, but yes, so there was five of us, 338 00:19:27,125 --> 00:19:30,445 Speaker 3: so for you know, Jerry, Victoria, myself and the other 339 00:19:30,525 --> 00:19:33,685 Speaker 3: male and a girl call Michelle, and basically the management 340 00:19:33,685 --> 00:19:36,005 Speaker 3: put us together. They put us in a little house, 341 00:19:36,165 --> 00:19:38,045 Speaker 3: which is brilliant because it was a really great way 342 00:19:38,085 --> 00:19:38,925 Speaker 3: to get to know each other. 343 00:19:39,485 --> 00:19:41,565 Speaker 1: But they were giving. 344 00:19:41,325 --> 00:19:44,445 Speaker 3: Us songs that are being written by other people, and 345 00:19:44,645 --> 00:19:47,965 Speaker 3: the songs were pretty meh and they've mostly been written 346 00:19:48,005 --> 00:19:52,685 Speaker 3: by middle aged men, so as well, now the why, Yeah, 347 00:19:52,805 --> 00:19:55,485 Speaker 3: that's the way it was the mid nineties in the UK, 348 00:19:56,245 --> 00:20:00,845 Speaker 3: and as much as we know appreciated having this, you know, 349 00:20:00,965 --> 00:20:05,485 Speaker 3: this support and opportunity. We were having vocal coaching, we 350 00:20:05,485 --> 00:20:07,765 Speaker 3: were working on choreography. A few of us were dancers, 351 00:20:07,845 --> 00:20:10,325 Speaker 3: so we were helping work through those things. 352 00:20:10,685 --> 00:20:12,525 Speaker 1: But yeah, this song thing was. 353 00:20:12,485 --> 00:20:16,605 Speaker 3: An issue because you know, you know the girls, right, 354 00:20:16,845 --> 00:20:18,285 Speaker 3: we're pretty feisty girls. 355 00:20:18,325 --> 00:20:19,285 Speaker 1: We've got things to say. 356 00:20:19,325 --> 00:20:22,485 Speaker 3: We were having experiences as young women in Britain growing 357 00:20:22,565 --> 00:20:26,125 Speaker 3: up in the nineties, so singing these songs about love 358 00:20:26,325 --> 00:20:28,365 Speaker 3: written by older men just. 359 00:20:28,325 --> 00:20:31,005 Speaker 1: Weren't cutting it for us. So that was probably the. 360 00:20:30,845 --> 00:20:34,765 Speaker 3: First kind of issue that we had with our first 361 00:20:35,285 --> 00:20:38,045 Speaker 3: management because we were like, we just we don't connect 362 00:20:38,125 --> 00:20:40,365 Speaker 3: with these songs, you know what I mean. Shit, So 363 00:20:41,285 --> 00:20:44,325 Speaker 3: we started, you know, in our own little way. None 364 00:20:44,365 --> 00:20:47,845 Speaker 3: of us, I mean, I didn't study music to any degree. 365 00:20:47,885 --> 00:20:51,485 Speaker 3: You know, none of us played instruments that proficiently, so 366 00:20:51,525 --> 00:20:54,845 Speaker 3: we were just singing along, making up songs, and it 367 00:20:54,925 --> 00:20:57,525 Speaker 3: was just more about the feeling and what we wanted 368 00:20:57,565 --> 00:20:58,965 Speaker 3: to say at that point. 369 00:20:59,205 --> 00:21:00,845 Speaker 2: You know what, it kind of reminded me of, which 370 00:21:00,845 --> 00:21:05,205 Speaker 2: will sound strange, but you know how some Mormons have 371 00:21:05,285 --> 00:21:08,125 Speaker 2: a lot of wives, and I read an article once 372 00:21:08,125 --> 00:21:09,165 Speaker 2: about the reason. 373 00:21:08,845 --> 00:21:10,645 Speaker 1: That the more have a lot of wives. 374 00:21:11,365 --> 00:21:13,045 Speaker 2: Is what happens is, first of all, there's a hot 375 00:21:13,085 --> 00:21:15,685 Speaker 2: young girl that comes in and the Mormon's all like, oh, yes, 376 00:21:15,805 --> 00:21:19,765 Speaker 2: yes she's and she's like, I love you, Hank or whatever, and. 377 00:21:19,605 --> 00:21:23,085 Speaker 1: Then the women form a bond with each other. 378 00:21:24,285 --> 00:21:26,965 Speaker 2: It's kind of reminds me of what happened with you 379 00:21:27,125 --> 00:21:33,485 Speaker 2: girls where you started to really assert yourselves. Michelle has 380 00:21:33,605 --> 00:21:38,085 Speaker 2: left at this point, and then you get Emma on board, baby, 381 00:21:40,245 --> 00:21:43,525 Speaker 2: and something happens in which the sum of the whole 382 00:21:44,405 --> 00:21:47,925 Speaker 2: becomes so much bigger than the sum of the parts, 383 00:21:47,965 --> 00:21:51,685 Speaker 2: and the sum of the parts is already pretty good. 384 00:21:51,125 --> 00:21:55,885 Speaker 2: What was that feeling and when was the moment, if 385 00:21:55,925 --> 00:21:59,205 Speaker 2: there was one that you went, oh there, something's happening. 386 00:21:59,445 --> 00:22:01,685 Speaker 1: It was instant. As soon as you Matt Emmett. 387 00:22:01,765 --> 00:22:04,365 Speaker 3: It was really strange because that's another really vivid memory 388 00:22:04,445 --> 00:22:07,845 Speaker 3: I have in my mind, remember being in Jerry's car. 389 00:22:08,005 --> 00:22:11,365 Speaker 3: She had a little fear, who know, bashed bits, and yeah, 390 00:22:11,405 --> 00:22:13,885 Speaker 3: she would drive us everywhere. It's amazing that we're also 391 00:22:13,925 --> 00:22:17,165 Speaker 3: living to tell the tale. And we picked up Emma 392 00:22:17,245 --> 00:22:20,885 Speaker 3: at the train station and yeah, I remember like Jerry 393 00:22:20,965 --> 00:22:23,605 Speaker 3: was like looking at her through the rearview mirror and 394 00:22:23,765 --> 00:22:26,765 Speaker 3: she was just so lovely and sweet and there was 395 00:22:26,845 --> 00:22:30,725 Speaker 3: just a massive dynamic shift and from that moment it 396 00:22:30,765 --> 00:22:34,685 Speaker 3: was just sparky. And you know, even now, it's quite 397 00:22:34,805 --> 00:22:36,805 Speaker 3: rare the five of us are in a room together. 398 00:22:37,045 --> 00:22:38,325 Speaker 3: You know, we don't get to do it as much 399 00:22:38,365 --> 00:22:41,845 Speaker 3: as we'd like to, but you it is electric. There 400 00:22:41,885 --> 00:22:45,685 Speaker 3: is something just about whatever it is between the five 401 00:22:45,765 --> 00:22:48,365 Speaker 3: of us, and it has been since day one that 402 00:22:48,485 --> 00:22:49,485 Speaker 3: it's just exciting. 403 00:22:50,525 --> 00:22:52,525 Speaker 2: You realize that you had this kind of ament in 404 00:22:52,565 --> 00:22:56,925 Speaker 2: between you're asserting your authority certainly with the group. And 405 00:22:56,965 --> 00:22:59,925 Speaker 2: it sounds like at that point Jerry was kind of 406 00:23:00,125 --> 00:23:02,685 Speaker 2: like she was a little bit older than you guys. 407 00:23:02,925 --> 00:23:04,165 Speaker 2: I mean you're all so young. 408 00:23:04,445 --> 00:23:07,525 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I think Jerry's maybe a couple 409 00:23:07,525 --> 00:23:09,885 Speaker 3: of years older than me, and then Emmas a couple 410 00:23:09,885 --> 00:23:11,805 Speaker 3: of years younger than me, so we kind of, you know, 411 00:23:11,965 --> 00:23:15,765 Speaker 3: spend that time. And absolutely, you know, I think we 412 00:23:15,885 --> 00:23:18,245 Speaker 3: always looked up to Jerry in that she has a 413 00:23:18,245 --> 00:23:21,605 Speaker 3: lot more experience in life. You know, she'd been out there, 414 00:23:21,685 --> 00:23:28,525 Speaker 3: she'd worked, and she was exceptionally driven and you know felt, 415 00:23:28,565 --> 00:23:32,245 Speaker 3: you know, in many ways, was the voice of the 416 00:23:32,245 --> 00:23:34,565 Speaker 3: Space Girls, you know, like the mouthpiece of the Spice Girls. 417 00:23:34,925 --> 00:23:39,285 Speaker 3: And then of course that's where the interesting relationship comes 418 00:23:39,325 --> 00:23:42,845 Speaker 3: between her and Melby because Melby is also very outspoken. 419 00:23:42,885 --> 00:23:45,845 Speaker 3: They're very different, but then together, when they came together, 420 00:23:45,885 --> 00:23:49,685 Speaker 3: it was very powerful. So you know, we all absolutely 421 00:23:49,725 --> 00:23:52,565 Speaker 3: had our role to play within that. I think without 422 00:23:52,605 --> 00:23:55,925 Speaker 3: personalities like Melby and Jerry, I don't think we would 423 00:23:55,925 --> 00:23:56,965 Speaker 3: have got as far as we did. 424 00:23:57,965 --> 00:24:02,325 Speaker 2: And then the snowball really starts gathering momentum down the hill, 425 00:24:03,885 --> 00:24:10,405 Speaker 2: so you change your management, Yeah, you in fact, guy 426 00:24:10,445 --> 00:24:13,245 Speaker 2: to see I love this Simon Cowell. 427 00:24:14,965 --> 00:24:16,765 Speaker 3: He's one of the only persons to ever say no 428 00:24:16,925 --> 00:24:19,485 Speaker 3: to the Spice Girls. I think it's like his biggest 429 00:24:19,605 --> 00:24:22,285 Speaker 3: regret of his life. When we look back and we 430 00:24:22,365 --> 00:24:25,565 Speaker 3: reminisce over these times, it's like Scooby Doo because it 431 00:24:25,725 --> 00:24:29,045 Speaker 3: was so many of our situations were so ridiculous. I mean, 432 00:24:29,125 --> 00:24:31,925 Speaker 3: if only we could make this movie, you know, of 433 00:24:32,045 --> 00:24:36,365 Speaker 3: those days and we were very frustrated with our management. 434 00:24:36,965 --> 00:24:40,285 Speaker 3: We talked to them into the idea of us doing 435 00:24:40,285 --> 00:24:43,805 Speaker 3: a showcase, which was us performing these shitty songs we 436 00:24:43,845 --> 00:24:47,205 Speaker 3: didn't even like, but we'd made up some choreography, and 437 00:24:47,405 --> 00:24:50,125 Speaker 3: we got studio space, We got writers and producers and 438 00:24:50,125 --> 00:24:53,565 Speaker 3: publishers in to see us, but we already knew we 439 00:24:53,565 --> 00:24:56,405 Speaker 3: were going to go, so we kind of got them 440 00:24:56,405 --> 00:24:58,525 Speaker 3: to pay for that, and then we went and did 441 00:24:58,525 --> 00:25:01,005 Speaker 3: our thing. And it was the first time we'd performed 442 00:25:01,045 --> 00:25:04,965 Speaker 3: in front of an audience, and we could feel the excitement, 443 00:25:05,485 --> 00:25:07,485 Speaker 3: you know, there was a bit of a buzz. People 444 00:25:07,485 --> 00:25:11,845 Speaker 3: were coming and going, and we were making the contact 445 00:25:11,925 --> 00:25:13,845 Speaker 3: with the people ourselves because we knew we were going 446 00:25:13,885 --> 00:25:16,925 Speaker 3: to walk away and do this independently until we found 447 00:25:16,925 --> 00:25:20,325 Speaker 3: about management, and that's what we did. So we did that. 448 00:25:20,445 --> 00:25:23,165 Speaker 3: We did a midnight flip from the house we've been 449 00:25:23,165 --> 00:25:27,165 Speaker 3: put up in. We stole the demo tapes and I mean, 450 00:25:27,205 --> 00:25:30,405 Speaker 3: this is the whole like, oh ridiculousness a bit, and 451 00:25:30,925 --> 00:25:34,445 Speaker 3: then we worked with the writers and the producers. A 452 00:25:34,445 --> 00:25:36,845 Speaker 3: lot of the people that appeared on the album Madam 453 00:25:36,885 --> 00:25:40,805 Speaker 3: Biff want to Be Spicy, Live, Viva Forever to become one, 454 00:25:41,365 --> 00:25:45,605 Speaker 3: guys called Absolute. Who do you think you are? Elliott Kennedy, 455 00:25:45,685 --> 00:25:48,485 Speaker 3: we went up to Sheffield. We worked with him. Say 456 00:25:48,485 --> 00:25:50,085 Speaker 3: You'll be There was a song we wrote with him. 457 00:25:50,285 --> 00:25:53,045 Speaker 3: So we were busy gathering all of these songs that 458 00:25:53,125 --> 00:25:55,845 Speaker 3: we were co writing that we were putting our own 459 00:25:55,885 --> 00:25:59,765 Speaker 3: ideas into. And in the meantime, while we were getting 460 00:25:59,805 --> 00:26:02,565 Speaker 3: all of these demos together, demo tapes I love it 461 00:26:02,605 --> 00:26:04,845 Speaker 3: that really depict the era right. 462 00:26:05,205 --> 00:26:05,845 Speaker 1: So we had our. 463 00:26:05,765 --> 00:26:10,045 Speaker 3: Cassettes with us and that's when we started to management, 464 00:26:10,125 --> 00:26:12,325 Speaker 3: and I would say by the time we met the 465 00:26:12,365 --> 00:26:16,165 Speaker 3: manager that took us to the Stratosphere with everything Sam 466 00:26:16,205 --> 00:26:19,645 Speaker 3: and Fuller, we had about ninety percent of the album written. 467 00:26:20,405 --> 00:26:23,005 Speaker 1: So yeah, we kind of did what we set out 468 00:26:23,045 --> 00:26:23,285 Speaker 1: to do. 469 00:26:27,445 --> 00:26:30,885 Speaker 2: Coming up after this short break, Melsey shares with me, 470 00:26:31,005 --> 00:26:39,645 Speaker 2: when this started getting toxic, We'll be right back. It's 471 00:26:39,685 --> 00:26:44,125 Speaker 2: an interesting thing because you were gaining this momentum and 472 00:26:45,005 --> 00:26:49,485 Speaker 2: all of your powers at that point were combined and 473 00:26:49,605 --> 00:26:52,525 Speaker 2: your focus was very much external, like this is what 474 00:26:52,565 --> 00:26:55,045 Speaker 2: we need to do. This is where we have to go. 475 00:26:55,125 --> 00:26:56,685 Speaker 2: This is where we had to have to get to. 476 00:26:57,445 --> 00:27:02,365 Speaker 2: What room did that leave for your internal at that time? Like, 477 00:27:02,565 --> 00:27:05,525 Speaker 2: how how are you? I know you gave up the 478 00:27:05,685 --> 00:27:07,725 Speaker 2: double bed to Jerry and didn't. 479 00:27:07,445 --> 00:27:11,565 Speaker 1: Even she had the double bed, I had the single. 480 00:27:12,485 --> 00:27:15,485 Speaker 1: You dive up the double bid without a. 481 00:27:15,125 --> 00:27:20,605 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think that's very much how I've been. 482 00:27:20,845 --> 00:27:23,445 Speaker 3: I think all of my life, I've yeah. I mean 483 00:27:23,525 --> 00:27:25,885 Speaker 3: it's quite difficult to talk about yourself, isn't it. But 484 00:27:26,405 --> 00:27:28,845 Speaker 3: I'm a pacifist, you know, so I always want to 485 00:27:28,925 --> 00:27:35,125 Speaker 3: keep the peace and my role within that dynamic, you know, 486 00:27:35,245 --> 00:27:38,685 Speaker 3: especially because having such big personalities, there was fireworks sometimes, 487 00:27:39,125 --> 00:27:42,485 Speaker 3: so I think my safest space was to keep out 488 00:27:42,485 --> 00:27:45,685 Speaker 3: of the firing line. I was very driven, and again, 489 00:27:45,725 --> 00:27:48,605 Speaker 3: you know, talking about all of our strengths. Of course 490 00:27:49,005 --> 00:27:52,765 Speaker 3: with strengths we have weakness. So you know, personally, for me, 491 00:27:52,925 --> 00:27:55,445 Speaker 3: the places where I would shine and I would feel 492 00:27:55,445 --> 00:28:02,165 Speaker 3: comfortable and confident was in the studio writing music, singing, recording, performing, 493 00:28:02,445 --> 00:28:06,285 Speaker 3: whereas you know, other girls would feel differently in those environments. 494 00:28:06,645 --> 00:28:10,285 Speaker 3: So there was moments when you know, that was kind 495 00:28:10,325 --> 00:28:12,405 Speaker 3: of where I put all of my energy and then 496 00:28:12,405 --> 00:28:16,965 Speaker 3: when it came to other things potentially, you know, I 497 00:28:17,005 --> 00:28:21,325 Speaker 3: suppose socializing or being at home that would be maybe 498 00:28:21,325 --> 00:28:24,725 Speaker 3: where I was a lot more of an introvert. So yeah, 499 00:28:24,805 --> 00:28:30,005 Speaker 3: it was an interesting kind of observation of who you 500 00:28:30,045 --> 00:28:33,165 Speaker 3: are as a person and who you are in different environments. 501 00:28:33,245 --> 00:28:36,125 Speaker 3: And then that's all onto a microscope because obviously, you know, 502 00:28:36,245 --> 00:28:40,245 Speaker 3: once the media got involved, we couldn't really do anything 503 00:28:40,285 --> 00:28:41,405 Speaker 3: of that it being written about. 504 00:28:42,085 --> 00:28:43,285 Speaker 1: And then of course when you. 505 00:28:44,805 --> 00:28:48,325 Speaker 2: Came out as the Spice Girls, it must have been 506 00:28:49,045 --> 00:28:53,525 Speaker 2: such an extraordinary shift in the tectonic plates of your 507 00:28:53,605 --> 00:28:57,165 Speaker 2: life between what you'd all been working towards Data DA. 508 00:28:57,685 --> 00:29:00,965 Speaker 2: So you were on tour actually in Japan, was it. 509 00:29:01,325 --> 00:29:04,165 Speaker 3: Yeah, So we released Obviously it was before the Internet 510 00:29:04,725 --> 00:29:08,005 Speaker 3: and at the time in the music industry you could 511 00:29:08,125 --> 00:29:11,685 Speaker 3: release things at different times in different places, and you 512 00:29:11,725 --> 00:29:14,365 Speaker 3: would do that because it will give you the opportunity 513 00:29:14,445 --> 00:29:19,365 Speaker 3: to promote in each territory. Obviously, now everything's happens at 514 00:29:19,405 --> 00:29:21,405 Speaker 3: the same time. You know, you can't drop a record 515 00:29:21,445 --> 00:29:25,165 Speaker 3: in the US, it's gone everywhere. So we were in Japan, 516 00:29:25,685 --> 00:29:28,805 Speaker 3: and in Japan was like really interesting. Obviously a country 517 00:29:28,845 --> 00:29:31,165 Speaker 3: none of us have been to. You know, we all 518 00:29:31,845 --> 00:29:36,125 Speaker 3: obviously came from different backgrounds, but all pretty much working class, 519 00:29:36,285 --> 00:29:38,445 Speaker 3: if not, you know, the posh one was a. 520 00:29:38,405 --> 00:29:39,965 Speaker 1: Bit more posh that much. 521 00:29:40,445 --> 00:29:43,565 Speaker 3: So, you know, we hadn't traveled and seen the world 522 00:29:43,605 --> 00:29:46,245 Speaker 3: in that way, but we're in Japan. It was a 523 00:29:46,245 --> 00:29:47,485 Speaker 3: little bit of a learning ground. 524 00:29:47,765 --> 00:29:48,005 Speaker 1: You know. 525 00:29:48,085 --> 00:29:51,245 Speaker 3: We were out there releasing the album, doing the interviews, 526 00:29:51,365 --> 00:29:56,045 Speaker 3: doing the photo shoots, which was incredible and insane. And 527 00:29:56,365 --> 00:29:58,765 Speaker 3: that's when Wanta we went to number one in the UK, 528 00:29:58,965 --> 00:30:01,845 Speaker 3: which is kind of like, you know, the the ultimate 529 00:30:02,005 --> 00:30:04,645 Speaker 3: that's kind of what we were we were aiming for. 530 00:30:05,125 --> 00:30:07,845 Speaker 3: And yeah, and our opportunity to perform on top of 531 00:30:07,885 --> 00:30:13,085 Speaker 3: the pops rest in peace. But it was pretty crazy 532 00:30:13,205 --> 00:30:15,285 Speaker 3: to be in Tokyo. I think for the first couple 533 00:30:15,325 --> 00:30:16,485 Speaker 3: of weeks it was at number one. 534 00:30:17,205 --> 00:30:20,645 Speaker 2: And then so when you came back, what was the 535 00:30:20,805 --> 00:30:27,725 Speaker 2: climate like for you? Was that appetite already there was growing. 536 00:30:28,125 --> 00:30:32,245 Speaker 2: I don't imagine you can go number one and the 537 00:30:32,285 --> 00:30:35,925 Speaker 2: five of you being what you were and sleep back 538 00:30:35,925 --> 00:30:37,325 Speaker 2: into the country under the radar. 539 00:30:37,885 --> 00:30:40,325 Speaker 3: Well, it was really funny because I remember I think 540 00:30:40,325 --> 00:30:42,925 Speaker 3: we did a British TV it was called Surprise surprise 541 00:30:43,325 --> 00:30:47,405 Speaker 3: with a wonderful British broadcast AEP Silla Black, you know, 542 00:30:47,445 --> 00:30:50,645 Speaker 3: who was such a she was a national treasure and 543 00:30:50,965 --> 00:30:52,205 Speaker 3: it was a really big show. 544 00:30:52,285 --> 00:30:54,965 Speaker 1: You know. Obviously the days were TV rained. 545 00:30:55,085 --> 00:30:58,125 Speaker 3: There wasn't as many channels, you know, and the media 546 00:30:58,245 --> 00:31:00,685 Speaker 3: was so much smaller than it is now, and there 547 00:31:00,685 --> 00:31:02,965 Speaker 3: would have been millions of people watching. And we did 548 00:31:03,045 --> 00:31:06,045 Speaker 3: this TV on a Saturday night and it aired, and 549 00:31:06,125 --> 00:31:08,005 Speaker 3: I went out the next day shopping to like the 550 00:31:08,005 --> 00:31:11,805 Speaker 3: local shopping mark, and I thought everybody recognized me. 551 00:31:12,125 --> 00:31:14,445 Speaker 1: I was like, you know, thinking this is I'm a super. 552 00:31:14,205 --> 00:31:16,805 Speaker 3: Star, and we know one had a clue or cared 553 00:31:17,045 --> 00:31:20,765 Speaker 3: who I was. But then when we got back from Japan, yes, 554 00:31:21,045 --> 00:31:24,605 Speaker 3: everything changed because one of you was all over the radio. 555 00:31:25,525 --> 00:31:28,485 Speaker 3: You know, we'd had lots of television appearances that had 556 00:31:28,525 --> 00:31:31,725 Speaker 3: happened while we were away. So yeah, we definitely came 557 00:31:31,765 --> 00:31:33,165 Speaker 3: back to a very different world. 558 00:31:33,845 --> 00:31:36,765 Speaker 1: And then how was that like within your family? 559 00:31:37,165 --> 00:31:40,605 Speaker 2: So at this point everyone must have been so excited 560 00:31:40,685 --> 00:31:42,325 Speaker 2: for what was happening with our meal. 561 00:31:45,045 --> 00:31:47,165 Speaker 1: It's yeah, I think that's the thing. 562 00:31:47,885 --> 00:31:51,405 Speaker 3: At this point, it was so exciting, you know, people 563 00:31:51,725 --> 00:31:54,685 Speaker 3: couldn't believe it. I'd always talked about it. You know, 564 00:31:54,725 --> 00:31:57,445 Speaker 3: my friends and my family, they knew this is what 565 00:31:57,485 --> 00:32:00,845 Speaker 3: I'd always gone on about I was going to do, 566 00:32:00,925 --> 00:32:02,765 Speaker 3: and they knew about the band, and they'd met everyone 567 00:32:02,765 --> 00:32:05,445 Speaker 3: and they'd heard the music, but it was actually happening. 568 00:32:05,685 --> 00:32:07,765 Speaker 1: So everyone got caught up in the whirlwind. 569 00:32:08,205 --> 00:32:11,805 Speaker 3: And those you know, they early days, they're exciting and 570 00:32:11,845 --> 00:32:16,285 Speaker 3: they're heady, and of course, you know, with good always 571 00:32:16,325 --> 00:32:18,445 Speaker 3: comes a bit of bad. And then I think it 572 00:32:18,485 --> 00:32:22,085 Speaker 3: was difficult for people around us to deal with. I 573 00:32:22,125 --> 00:32:26,365 Speaker 3: suppose how you get treated differently, and how the media 574 00:32:26,485 --> 00:32:31,845 Speaker 3: pursued anybody who knew you, so you almost immediately feel 575 00:32:31,845 --> 00:32:32,525 Speaker 3: like your prey. 576 00:32:33,325 --> 00:32:35,285 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then of course. 577 00:32:35,165 --> 00:32:38,485 Speaker 2: You haven't honed those senses yet. People who have had 578 00:32:38,485 --> 00:32:41,245 Speaker 2: a degree of fame for some time often talk about 579 00:32:43,205 --> 00:32:46,565 Speaker 2: the sensors that you need when you meet someone new. 580 00:32:46,725 --> 00:32:48,885 Speaker 2: Do they want something, do they know me? Do they 581 00:32:48,965 --> 00:32:49,525 Speaker 2: like me for me? 582 00:32:50,125 --> 00:32:50,285 Speaker 1: Yeah? 583 00:32:50,365 --> 00:32:53,285 Speaker 2: Of course you were trust so raw and suddenly and 584 00:32:53,325 --> 00:32:55,005 Speaker 2: excitingly into this world. 585 00:32:55,365 --> 00:32:55,605 Speaker 1: Yeah. 586 00:32:55,645 --> 00:32:58,565 Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest things that kind of 587 00:32:58,565 --> 00:33:00,885 Speaker 3: really blows my mind when I look back, because obviously 588 00:33:01,245 --> 00:33:04,205 Speaker 3: young person, I was twenty two, and the media was 589 00:33:04,325 --> 00:33:06,445 Speaker 3: very different in those days, and a lot of the 590 00:33:06,525 --> 00:33:11,725 Speaker 3: questioning was very intrusive and personal, and you know, and 591 00:33:11,765 --> 00:33:15,285 Speaker 3: you're just talking about like fun kids magazines or whatever, 592 00:33:15,325 --> 00:33:17,485 Speaker 3: but they would ask you questions that you would feel 593 00:33:17,565 --> 00:33:19,525 Speaker 3: very uncomfortable answering. 594 00:33:19,605 --> 00:33:23,445 Speaker 4: But like white or six or yeah, all of those 595 00:33:23,445 --> 00:33:26,085 Speaker 4: things like yeah, oh, you know, talk us through the 596 00:33:26,125 --> 00:33:28,845 Speaker 4: first time we had sex, or you know, you know, 597 00:33:28,845 --> 00:33:30,645 Speaker 4: who was the first person you're kissed, and things. 598 00:33:30,485 --> 00:33:32,525 Speaker 1: Like that, and like when you're in your early twenties, 599 00:33:32,525 --> 00:33:34,725 Speaker 1: I mean, your dad's going to read that, do you 600 00:33:34,765 --> 00:33:35,965 Speaker 1: know what I mean? It's like, you don't want to 601 00:33:35,965 --> 00:33:36,765 Speaker 1: talk about those things. 602 00:33:37,205 --> 00:33:40,325 Speaker 3: But obviously different personalities within the band, but I'm a 603 00:33:40,365 --> 00:33:43,485 Speaker 3: people pleaser, so I'm thinking, well, I've got to answer 604 00:33:43,485 --> 00:33:45,165 Speaker 3: the questions that've been asked, you know. 605 00:33:45,245 --> 00:33:46,965 Speaker 1: And we had no media training. 606 00:33:47,325 --> 00:33:51,005 Speaker 3: In fact, I often believe media training was invented because 607 00:33:51,005 --> 00:33:53,565 Speaker 3: of the Spice Ghost, right, because we were a nightmare. 608 00:33:53,605 --> 00:33:55,685 Speaker 3: We just used to speak over each other all the time. 609 00:33:56,245 --> 00:33:58,725 Speaker 3: And you know, I mean, I'm quite proud of that 610 00:33:58,805 --> 00:34:01,885 Speaker 3: fact now. But we had to learn on the front line. 611 00:34:02,085 --> 00:34:04,245 Speaker 3: You know, there was nowhere for us to hide. We 612 00:34:04,325 --> 00:34:07,925 Speaker 3: had to make our own mistakes in the public you know, 613 00:34:08,005 --> 00:34:08,765 Speaker 3: public eye. 614 00:34:09,805 --> 00:34:10,845 Speaker 1: So at that point. 615 00:34:11,125 --> 00:34:14,445 Speaker 2: Was around then that you started to have issues with 616 00:34:14,525 --> 00:34:19,005 Speaker 2: eating or controlling your weight, or you'd had a couple 617 00:34:19,045 --> 00:34:21,485 Speaker 2: of things said to you that were really poisonous. 618 00:34:21,805 --> 00:34:24,285 Speaker 1: Yeah, well it was, yeah, it was before that. Really. 619 00:34:24,445 --> 00:34:27,365 Speaker 3: It was when we were with our initial management, you know, 620 00:34:27,765 --> 00:34:30,445 Speaker 3: before we were even in the public eye. And I 621 00:34:30,485 --> 00:34:33,765 Speaker 3: was just made, you know, very aware. I think he 622 00:34:33,885 --> 00:34:37,045 Speaker 3: because I was doing the backflip and he said, I'm 623 00:34:37,085 --> 00:34:39,485 Speaker 3: surprised you can do it with das like that, and 624 00:34:39,525 --> 00:34:41,525 Speaker 3: that just like really stuck with me. And I'd been 625 00:34:41,565 --> 00:34:45,045 Speaker 3: a dancer and I'd been in an environment where, you know, 626 00:34:45,125 --> 00:34:48,365 Speaker 3: and we talk about this so much more in culture 627 00:34:48,405 --> 00:34:52,205 Speaker 3: now and how things are not okay, but you know, 628 00:34:52,485 --> 00:34:53,925 Speaker 3: in the world of dance. 629 00:34:53,765 --> 00:34:58,125 Speaker 1: It was brutal. You know, you were really embarrassed. 630 00:34:58,205 --> 00:34:59,605 Speaker 3: You know, if you put on a little bit away 631 00:35:00,005 --> 00:35:02,445 Speaker 3: my holidays or something, you know, the teacher would tell 632 00:35:02,485 --> 00:35:04,685 Speaker 3: you in front of all of your classmates. We spent 633 00:35:04,725 --> 00:35:07,885 Speaker 3: all day looking in the mirror. But I it never 634 00:35:07,925 --> 00:35:11,085 Speaker 3: affected me negative in that way. I had quite a 635 00:35:11,085 --> 00:35:14,645 Speaker 3: healthy attitude towards food and towards exercise and all of 636 00:35:14,685 --> 00:35:17,765 Speaker 3: those things. But there was just something about that comment 637 00:35:18,365 --> 00:35:21,965 Speaker 3: at that time with what I wanted to achieve. It 638 00:35:22,125 --> 00:35:24,885 Speaker 3: just kind of was like a catalyst in me, and 639 00:35:25,645 --> 00:35:29,485 Speaker 3: I began to be very restrictive over what I was eating, 640 00:35:30,125 --> 00:35:34,005 Speaker 3: and I became quite obsessive about exercising. And it was 641 00:35:34,045 --> 00:35:37,245 Speaker 3: this thing of like, I have to be perfect to 642 00:35:37,405 --> 00:35:40,965 Speaker 3: achieve my dream. There's a way I have to look. 643 00:35:41,285 --> 00:35:43,725 Speaker 3: There's a way I have to behave, there's a way 644 00:35:43,805 --> 00:35:48,685 Speaker 3: I have to be and that there's no other ways because. 645 00:35:48,685 --> 00:35:53,365 Speaker 2: You work hard, so were you like I can work 646 00:35:53,485 --> 00:35:54,765 Speaker 2: hard at this as well. 647 00:35:55,085 --> 00:35:57,885 Speaker 3: It's your life, it's your destiny, it's your path. There's 648 00:35:57,885 --> 00:36:02,205 Speaker 3: no option, So whatever it takes, that's what you will do. 649 00:36:02,605 --> 00:36:06,365 Speaker 3: And that in a toxic environment, that's dangerous. 650 00:36:06,845 --> 00:36:09,285 Speaker 1: And when did it start to become. 651 00:36:09,165 --> 00:36:14,885 Speaker 3: To it kind of creeps in, you know, And it's 652 00:36:14,965 --> 00:36:18,285 Speaker 3: sometimes it's a little comments. This can happen in any workplace, 653 00:36:18,765 --> 00:36:22,005 Speaker 3: in any relationship, in a family environment. Do you know 654 00:36:22,005 --> 00:36:24,885 Speaker 3: what I mean that you talked about internalizing things? You know, 655 00:36:24,965 --> 00:36:27,885 Speaker 3: somebody can say something and people don't realize the power 656 00:36:27,885 --> 00:36:30,885 Speaker 3: of their words, you know. So it's just like all 657 00:36:30,965 --> 00:36:34,965 Speaker 3: these little things chipping away and manager comments on your thighs, 658 00:36:35,245 --> 00:36:40,405 Speaker 3: a newspaper calls you ugly, you know, talentless, and you 659 00:36:40,445 --> 00:36:43,565 Speaker 3: see a bad paparazzi shot of yourself and so just 660 00:36:43,645 --> 00:36:46,885 Speaker 3: all of these things that is chipping chipping away, and 661 00:36:47,405 --> 00:36:50,805 Speaker 3: you know, whatever's going on for you inside, whatever your 662 00:36:50,805 --> 00:36:53,805 Speaker 3: triggers are, that can send you off on a path 663 00:36:53,845 --> 00:36:55,245 Speaker 3: which can be really hard. 664 00:36:55,885 --> 00:37:00,125 Speaker 2: And also, I imagine because you were there was this 665 00:37:00,525 --> 00:37:06,005 Speaker 2: stratospheric success happening number one in thirty seven countries, unheard of, 666 00:37:07,005 --> 00:37:10,725 Speaker 2: and you're touring and the world is mad about you 667 00:37:10,805 --> 00:37:12,725 Speaker 2: and your merched everywhere and. 668 00:37:14,005 --> 00:37:15,445 Speaker 1: Girls are loving you. 669 00:37:15,445 --> 00:37:20,125 Speaker 2: You've literally changed the lives of girls. But because of 670 00:37:20,165 --> 00:37:25,245 Speaker 2: all that external did the five of you really turn 671 00:37:25,325 --> 00:37:27,965 Speaker 2: to each other more because no one else can really 672 00:37:28,085 --> 00:37:29,725 Speaker 2: understand what's going on? 673 00:37:30,925 --> 00:37:33,565 Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. I mean that is the saving 674 00:37:33,605 --> 00:37:38,085 Speaker 3: grace of being in a band. And I talk about 675 00:37:38,085 --> 00:37:40,165 Speaker 3: this a lot. There's no one else on the planet. 676 00:37:40,525 --> 00:37:42,565 Speaker 3: There's five people who know what it's like to be 677 00:37:42,605 --> 00:37:44,845 Speaker 3: a spice girl, and even the five of us have 678 00:37:45,005 --> 00:37:48,325 Speaker 3: very different experiences of the same thing, you know, but 679 00:37:48,605 --> 00:37:52,645 Speaker 3: we knew it was so important for us to be 680 00:37:52,765 --> 00:37:56,725 Speaker 3: there for each other. Sometimes that was a toxic environment, 681 00:37:56,885 --> 00:37:59,125 Speaker 3: you know. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves 682 00:37:59,205 --> 00:38:02,965 Speaker 3: and each other, but fundamentally we have each other's back, 683 00:38:03,285 --> 00:38:03,525 Speaker 3: you know. 684 00:38:03,765 --> 00:38:05,325 Speaker 1: To this day, if. 685 00:38:05,125 --> 00:38:07,325 Speaker 3: Someone messes with one of the Spice Girls, you have 686 00:38:07,405 --> 00:38:09,685 Speaker 3: to deal with the other four, you know, and to 687 00:38:09,805 --> 00:38:11,685 Speaker 3: have that is pretty incredible. 688 00:38:14,645 --> 00:38:17,845 Speaker 2: This is not the end of my conversation with Melanie Chisholm. 689 00:38:18,445 --> 00:38:21,525 Speaker 2: Follow us over to part two to hear mel talk 690 00:38:21,565 --> 00:38:24,645 Speaker 2: about the isolation that came with being a Spice Girl, 691 00:38:25,285 --> 00:38:29,285 Speaker 2: how motherhood has changed her, what girl power means to 692 00:38:29,325 --> 00:38:33,285 Speaker 2: her today, and of course, whether or not we should 693 00:38:33,325 --> 00:38:34,525 Speaker 2: expect a reunion.