WEBVTT - 'Crying Cafes' & A Mother-In-Law Red Flag 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:07.880 Welcome to Parenting Out Loud, the podcast that brought you 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.000 six seven. We're not like every other parenting podcast. We're 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:12.800 not here to tell you how to parent. We look 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:15.239 at the trends and the culture and sort of like 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.279 the vibe of parenting and like to kind of pick 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:20.680 it apart. It's pretty fun. Actually, I'm monque Bowling. 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:22.919 I'm Amelia Lesta, and I'm Stacey Hicks. 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:24.520 Coming up on today's show. 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:27.800 Our viral dilemma this week has sparked a big conversation 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:30.880 about grandparent boundaries and it's quite spicy. 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:36.199 Deanna Miller Laura Henshaw two celebrities presenting two very different 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:38.680 images of what it means and looks like to be 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:39.320 a new mum. 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.200 So why are people happy with either of them? 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:45.120 And the Japanese invention that we're obsessed with. 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:51.360 But first at first, guys, the biggest celebrity mom group 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.760 drama of twenty twenty six has been sparked up again. 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:57.360 Mandy Moore has entered the chat. 0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:59.840 I was so worried that Mandy Moore would enter the 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:02.840 parenting chat drama while you were on holiday. 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:07.240 Yes, yes, this has been a story this Sorry, can 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:08.640 you explain the story to me. 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:12.280 It's so there are so many prongs. Now, can you 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:13.520 just give me like a quick praise? 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:14.880 Yeah, we're up to Yes. 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:18.039 I can, as the official Celebrity mom Roup correspondent of 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:21.959 this podcast. So this kicked off back on January one, 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.160 and I love that Mandy Moore has just gone, no, 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:26.400 I'm not over it yet. It's May and we're talking 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:30.360 about it again. But it kicked off on me January. Sorry, 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.840 it kicked off on January one because Ashley Tisdale of 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:37.679 high school musical fame published a pretty scathing article with 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:41.240 the cart explaining why she left her toxic mum guen. 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.240 She published that on New Year's Day. Yes that's some 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:48.080 like six. Yes, yes, she's looked at the moon. 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:50.880 She's gone. You know what I'm doing it. We're changing 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:52.680 things up this year. I'm going to start the year 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:53.840 with toxicity. 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.200 Yes. Yeah, she was like twenty twenty six, the year 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.920 of being toxic, and here I go. So she claimed 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:01.920 that there was mean girl behavior in this mum's group 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:04.360 that she had to she had to leave. She couldn't 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:06.880 take it anymore. And it was a celebrity studded mum 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:09.440 see it was so it was widely known that she 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.280 was in a mum's group with Hillary Duff, Mandy Moore, 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:16.200 Meghan Trainer, like, they were all posting mom outings together, 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.560 mom holidays all over the place, so it was widely 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:21.760 known that these were the women she was speaking about, 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:25.600 despite her never actually saying anything. Now, instead of Hillary 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:30.560 Duff piping up straight away, Hillary Duff's husband decided to 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:32.959 clap back on her behalf, which I kind of love 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.640 that she just went, I'm outsourcing this to you, and 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:38.919 he kind of did this mock cover of her cut 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.919 article and he had the headline, when You're the most 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.560 self obsessed, tone deaf person on Earth. Other moms tend 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:48.120 to shift their focus to their actual toddlers. 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.680 Burn Oh yes, I. 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.080 Wish all husbands were as good at clapping back as 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.160 as it was iconic. 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.240 He even like dressed and mimicked the position that she 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:01.919 was in in the photo with the cart. It was 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.080 all it was all very juicy and very petty, but 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.079 it had kind of died down, you know, we'd moved 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.000 on from this. And then Mandy Moore was on Andy 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:14.200 Cohen's podcast this week and she got asked about it. 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:15.240 So this is what she had to. 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:18.520 Say, it's wild to have anybody talk about your life. 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:20.440 And I know Hillary has sort of mentioned this too. 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:22.520 It's like we both have grown up in this business 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.920 and had people dissect who we are and the choices 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.640 we make and all of that. But this was something 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:33.080 altogether different and decidedly like way more upsetting, you know 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:34.840 what I mean, because it just like cuts to the 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.720 core of I think the most important thing in my 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:41.680 life is being a kind person and like that legacy 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.480 of kindness, and anyone even insinuating that that might not 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:48.120 be the case, and with the company that I choose 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.480 to keep is like, is very upsetting. 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:51.760 How's your legacy of christ? 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.520 I don't mean to laugh. I don't mean to laugh. 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.000 But when I saw this, I watched this with no 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:58.920 sound on, so I didn't hear what she was saying, 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:00.600 and all I did all I could see was her 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.720 body language in this, And I got to say, I'm 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.320 no body language expert, but I have watched enough Channel 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.800 nine Today show with body language experts to know what 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:12.920 I'm talking about. It is so it is so charged, 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.160 and it is so defensive, and it does not come 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:16.880 across well. 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.680 I had a bit of sympathy for her with this, 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.599 because I wondered whether it was one of those things 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.599 where she's held a tongue and she's held a tongue, 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.800 you know, like those people. I'm saying those people and 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.640 I'm this people that can't have someone else thinking ill 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.160 of you even though it doesn't really matter anymore. 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:36.480 And it's like she just. 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.640 So desperately wanted to fix the narrative and say no, 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.080 but I'm not mean, like I never would have been mean. 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.240 And that's what this felt like, that she was trying 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:46.720 to be chill. 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.239 And say, you know, yeah, it is upsetting when someone 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:51.120 says that, and you know that's not who I am. 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:53.480 But it came across as like, please, don't think I'm 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:54.040 a mean girl. 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.520 Please. It has no chill. 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.400 It has no chill. And that's interesting because she would 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:01.520 have known that this was going to come up, right, Yeah, 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:06.960 Why hadn't someone prepared her and said, Mandy much chill 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:09.520 in this situation, like you need to just be so 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:15.120 level headed and even like channel a CEO, channel Ted 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.600 Lasso and just be like, you know what, it's just 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:24.159 really disappointing that some people were upset, and I wish 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:26.360 them well. All it needed to. 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:30.760 Be gentle parented, Andy Cohen said was very disappointing. I 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:35.520 think the reason why she wasn't able to rain herself 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.480 in here, despite the fact that I think we can 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:43.680 agree that Mandy Moore and Hillary Duff won this narrative, Like, 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.960 I don't think anyone thought Ashley Tisdale came out looking 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.680 good from it. Setting that aside, I think that what 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.719 you see happening in this clip is that realization of 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.560 the way you think about yourself is different from the 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.600 way other people think about you. Yeah, that is such 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.320 a confronting moment in anyone's life because you think, well, 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.080 I'm putting out kindness in the world. I'm just trying 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.760 to be kind and clearly it's not coming across that 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.480 way to some people. And you can almost see like 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.920 the cogs in her brain like trying to trying to 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:17.440 turn over. 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:18.960 Am I the mean girl? 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:21.320 Maybe I am the mean girl when I only ever 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:23.200 tried to be kind? 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:25.280 Yeah, I do feel I do feel for her. 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.680 I think she's one of those She's had that legacy 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.240 of being one of those very wholesome you know, she 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.600 was famous very early, much like Hillary was, and they 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.960 have both had pretty untarnished reputations as they've as they've 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:38.160 grown up in this industry. 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.440 Child stars, Yeah, they were child. 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.640 Stars essentially, and so to have someone saying that you're 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.720 you're not a nice person would feel like a big affront. 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.680 But who knows, Maybe Megan Trainer's husband will pipe in 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:51.840 soon like another update, and this. 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:53.120 Story will just go all year. 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.080 Like speaking of child stars, it does feel childish to 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.680 an extent, And I think for me, what's interesting about 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.760 it is it's giving high school. It's giving high school 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.760 drama and me and girl drama. And there is this 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.200 maybe there's this myth of when you become a mother 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.800 that you've shared this unique experience with a lot of 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.440 other women. So there's sort of like this kumbayanas that 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.040 might come over you and you suddenly feel like, oh, 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.040 we're a sisterhood, right, I am a mother, you're a 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:26.960 mother as a mother. But this just shows that is 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.040 not the case at all, Like it is still very 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:30.760 much high school. 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:32.080 Two much love. 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:37.520 Celebrities have lately presented in some ways polar opposite visions 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.480 of what new motherhood actually looks like. 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:42.640 So let me tell you about the first. 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:46.320 Laura Henshaw appeared on the cover of Sunday Life magazine 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.280 for her first Mother's Day with her five month old 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:50.560 son Atlas. 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:51.320 Very cool. 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:54.400 And she looked so. 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:58.080 Gorgeous and was wearing this kind of beautiful coats with 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:02.880 her baby nestled under her and you know, relaxing by 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:06.480 autumn foliage. The photoshoot was gorgeous. Hensher is the co 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.280 founder of wellness platform Kick. She has three hundred and 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:12.680 forty six thousand followers on Instagram, which is about three 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.600 hundred and forty five thousand and ninety more followers than 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:20.560 I have. She's been very honest and upfront with her 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:25.000 community about the challenges of parenting. And this started even 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.480 before she had kids. She had this podcast that she 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.960 hosted called Do I Want Kids? And then on her 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.720 main podcast, she's talked about since having Atlas, for instance, 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:38.080 her decision to choose an elective cesarean, how hard it 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.600 is to co parent in a fair and equitable way 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:45.319 with her husband, Dalton. So she is used to controversy, 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.360 but even she must have been taken aback by what 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:53.120 happened last month when she breastfed Atlas. In a conversation 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.679 on her podcast with Dalton, her husband, here's a bit 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.680 of that podcast. I don't want anyone to listen and 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.280 think we had it all figured out before we went in. 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:03.400 Because we absolutely didn't. 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.079 And it has been. It has been really hard, and 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:06.920 it was really interesting. 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:10.040 Yesterday I had a conversation with someone in my DMS. 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.439 She said, are you really sharing the load or are 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:14.480 you just telling us that? 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.240 Do you hear Al a. 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.200 Little bit squeaks and then little squeaks of him. 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:23.319 It sounds adorable, but then he or she is unpacking 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.960 the response with her co host Steph Claire Smith. 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.199 If you can't look at me breastfeeding without sexualizing me. 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.880 You need to do some work on yourself. 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.040 That is not my problem, he said. Imagine a guy 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:37.280 did this because. 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.640 He was in a rush, in a rush, Yes, he 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.440 just had to film a podcast with his penis. Hat 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.080 was the most rogue comment, because why. 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:47.800 The could you need to get your penis out in 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:48.439 a podcast? 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:49.240 So that was yes. 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.760 One of the criticisms was how gratuitous it was of 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.920 her to take her breast out to breastfeed her son 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.360 while podcasting. So let me pause there before I tell 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.560 you about a s who I think is presenting a 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.679 very different image of New motherhood and ask if you 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.280 saw this moms, did you see that controversy? 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:09.200 And is this really where we're still. 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:13.040 At I saw the original clip and not the controversy, 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:15.680 and I just scrolled on past and was like, cool, 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:20.160 there's a woman at work doing all the work. The 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.000 baby's hungry, she has to record the podcast like play 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:27.480 on no worries. I'm not surprised that the response to 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.880 it was so disgusting, and it was because I think 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:34.960 we know that there's this lurking manisphere. There's these men 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.800 out there that feel that they can have these kind 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:42.120 of vocal opinions, that they are very aggressive in the 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.920 way that they go after people on social media. So 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:49.200 I thought the response to it was excellent because them 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:53.400 laughing at it and ridiculing it almost but then being 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.679 able to take a step back and just laugh their 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:57.920 heads off at what some of these men were saying 0:10:58.200 --> 0:10:59.760 takes a lot of the power out of it. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:04.280 Yeah, there was a vibe of you're at work, why 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.160 can't you just focus on your work? That was very 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:11.840 much the message that these commenters were sending Laura. But 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.559 what's interesting is that this week Sienna Miller, who was 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:20.520 a millennial icon went on Jimmy Fallon's show just three 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.199 weeks after giving birth at the. 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:24.120 Age of forty four. 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.920 Just pause for a minute and imagine you are three 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.080 weeks after giving birth at the age of forty four, 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.160 and you need to go on Jimmy Fallon's show to 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:36.480 talk about your Amazon Prime series with John Krasinski. She 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:38.680 also has a toddler and a teenager at home, by 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.200 the way, and the message. 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.760 Oh no, no, no, Amelia the toddler was on the flight 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.240 with her to the Jimmy Fallon Show. She had to 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.200 take a transatlantic flight with a three week old and 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.840 a toddler to even get to that interview and three 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:53.600 week's postpartner. 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.760 She put on a marigold yellow spaghetti strap dress and looks, 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:01.200 I think, more beautiful than I've ever I've seen even 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:04.080 Sienna Miller look and talks to Jimmy Fallon in a 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:05.640 completely coherent way. 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.120 Here she is and I can't even believe that you're 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:11.200 here because you just had a baby three weeks ago. 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:16.600 It's yeah, thank you. 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:21.320 It's crazy to be talking words and wearing like a dress. 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.240 So she sounds self deprecating in that clip, but then 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.119 she very quickly does move on to her work project. 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:32.120 And I'll call this approach to new motherhood the Margo 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.160 because you know who else did this had a baby 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:37.920 and then went straight back to never talking about babies 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.200 at work was Margot Robbie Stacy. You had quite a 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.600 strong reaction to our friend Sienna's address. 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:46.920 I don't like this about myself, Like, would I ever 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:51.239 commented on the internet. No, of course I wouldn't. But internally, 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.360 when I saw that clip of her, I did go, oh, 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:58.000 you're so annoying, like, how do you look that beautiful? 0:12:58.000 --> 0:12:59.600 And me doing all of this stuff three weeks later? 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.160 It just makes me feel bad And that's so ridiculous. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.800 And I know that intellectually because this was ten minutes 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.560 of Sienna Miller's day. A person who has access to 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:13.600 makeup artists, nanny's stylists, it's her job to look like that. 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:15.760 It's her job to go out and present those things. 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.280 So of course she is going to go and do that. 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.400 But I don't think you can help but kind of 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.280 compare your own experience to that and where you were 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.920 at at that at that point, And even though I 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:29.439 know that, you know the rest of her night was 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:30.840 probably a shit show. 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:34.439 With that baby. It did make me bristle, it did. 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:38.720 I think that's a completely valid emotional response. What happened 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:43.240 online is that comment has started criticizing her for leaving 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:47.200 her baby God and Margot. Robbie has also gotten some 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.319 backclash recently from people saying, where's your baby, Margot? Why 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:53.400 aren't you talking about your baby? And it suddenly occurred 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:57.360 to me, maybe this is what patriarchy is. When a 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.520 new mother can literally not do anything right. If she 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.520 feeds her baby, she's told she's not focusing on her work. 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.160 If she focuses on her work, she's told that she 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:07.680 needs to be at home with her baby. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.040 And what's the other option, Like we want these women 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:11.960 to completely vanish, And that's the. 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.320 Thing that's the preferred outcome. 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.120 Yeah, and that is so such a bad message to 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.240 send to mothers, that you must be invisible after that point, 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.400 like you must retreat, so we don't see how you 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:23.720 do it, whether it's right or wrong. 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:25.840 We just know you're with them. Twenty seven. 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:27.280 That's a great point, Stacy. 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.360 I actually hadn't put it together that that's why this 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:35.000 message gets pushed out there, because if both Margo and 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.600 Laura feel like they're they're doing it wrong. The net 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.960 result is every day women who are not celebrities look 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.000 at them and say, there's no right way of doing this. 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.480 So I'm just going to make sure that I take 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.400 myself out of the professional sphere altogether. Mons are we 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:52.000 overthinking this? Is this just Ciana Milla looking beautiful in 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:53.120 a spaghetti strut dressed? 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:55.520 You know what, I don't think they give a fuck 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:57.120 what we all think. I don't think they give a 0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:59.040 fuck what people on the internet think. I don't think 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:02.320 they care. I think they are doing what is right 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:05.120 for them in that moment, and that is their choice 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.440 and more power to them. I think that Ciena Miller 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:10.480 might not have even wanted to be there. She probably 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.720 signed a contract to promote this movie two years ago 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.600 and the timing didn't line up. You know, Laura Henshaw 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.640 is running her own business. You can't take maternity leave. 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:23.360 You have to just keep working. And I just think 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.400 we're at the point now where there is so much 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:32.280 noise towards mothers that it's like become white noise. And 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.760 I just really hope that they just shrug their shoulders 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:36.680 and get on with it, because who cares is that 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:37.520 too simplistic. 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:38.880 No, I don't think so. 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:41.080 I just think that women in the public eye, they've 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.000 just got an impossible task. But I at least like 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:47.640 that we're seeing different versions of what motherhood can be 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.760 at that point, because I think, yeah, there is actually 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.320 a lot of movement in that space to women seeing 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.240 different ways of doing things. So at least that's something. 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.800 But it's a shame that they need to take such 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:00.520 backlash in order for that to happen. 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.560 Yeah, I think so. At some point in the journey 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.800 of becoming a mother, you're just too tired to care 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.640 what other people think. You're just too tired, and your 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:10.280 head is down and you are getting on with it. 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:11.880 And I hope that that's what these women are doing 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.880 and not even reading the comments. The other point is 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:19.080 that like women are being asked to make motherhood look 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:23.120 compatible with everything else. That's the frustrating bit is that 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.720 this is a lie, like Ciam Miller thing is a 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:28.240 total lie, Like you can't. 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.640 That's so true, that's so true, that's seemlesstncient bold. 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:37.200 Yeah, yeah, and that's that's difficult. But aren't we smart 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.080 enough now to all look at it and go, wow, 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.080 She's amazing. She must have had a whole team of people. 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:43.200 She probably didn't even want it. 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:43.640 I don't know. 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:45.600 Maybe I'm projecting too much onto her. 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:48.640 Okay, there is this trend popping up in Japan at 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:50.760 the moment that I think is one of the most 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.080 brilliant ideas for mothers I've ever seen, and they need 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:54.280 to have them everywhere. 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.320 They're called nighttime crying cafes. 0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:59.240 I love it already, It's so good. 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.360 So they essent spaces for women where they can take 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.840 their babies late at night or into the early hours 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.240 of the morning, free of charge, and just be with 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:10.720 other mothers who are also going through the same thing 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.440 while their babies cry it out, essentially. So one woman, 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.480 Medoka Nazawa, she runs one of these crying cafes in 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:21.400 Hakkaido free of charge, in a space that is actually 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.920 used as a specialty French toast shop during the day, 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.600 which I want to go to quite badly. 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:29.320 But smell delicious, wouldn't it. 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.280 But this place is then run by volunteers at night 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.679 so that these women can bring their babies. The babies 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.720 can play or sleep, they can breastfeed, change nappies there 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:42.199 and just be heard these by these volunteers in that space. 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:43.639 Isn't that so genius? 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.359 I love that I had a baby in Japan, and 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:51.480 it is true that is of course in many ways, 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:56.520 the public spaces are really nicely set up for babies. 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:58.679 I remember there was a cafe near. 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.560 Where I lived which had a broom which was covered 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.720 in those like play mats that you get for kids. Yeah, 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:08.200 like where they can crawl around. There was just one 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.359 big round table so there were no sharp edges and 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.520 I could just take my baby there and have the 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.560 baby crawl around while I was drinking my delicious coffee. 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:21.200 That's great and I just wish that more places in 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.040 Australia would do that. Yeah. 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:25.040 I know this is meant to be like a funny 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:29.040 light segment, but I have such a visceral reaction to 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.960 reading this story and I feel like the pin prick 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:34.520 of tears behind my eyes because I had two babies 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:36.640 with colic. I don't know if either of you had 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.840 a baby with KIT and that is the most intense 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:47.119 and relentless experience in those early early months, and I 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.199 would have loved to, like I remember that feeling of 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.040 four o'clock coming and the feeling of dread in the 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.080 pit of my stomach. The crying was going to start, 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:58.960 and then it just wouldn't stop until ten o'clock at night. 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:01.560 And it's that I would love to go to a 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.359 crying cafe where you can just I don't know if 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:06.040 I would have had the energy for it, but just 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.320 to know that there was a space where other people 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:09.200 were going through it. 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.960 It's so important, Yeah, because those hours really do feel 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.640 like the loneliest of your entire life, horrendous, they will 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.760 never ever end. And to just think of this like 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.320 going out into the night and literally seeing that light 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:24.119 at the end of the tunnel, like that light at 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:26.160 the end of the street that you could go to 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.760