1 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 2: Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded. 4 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 3: On for Mamma Mia. I'm your host, Ashani Dante. Welcome 5 00:00:26,759 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 3: to But Are You Happy? Because self care is more 6 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 3: than overprize candles? 7 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 4: And I'm doctor Anastasia Hernus, the clinical psychologist passionate about happiness. 8 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 4: Have you ever ended a relationship, been single for a while, 9 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 4: started a new relationship, only to realize that you're basically 10 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 4: dating your ex? 11 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 3: Oh so many of my girlfriends are in this cycle 12 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 3: as we speak. 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 4: Well, this is the episode for them because there's a 14 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 4: reason we keep dating the wrong. 15 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 3: Person and hopefully there's ways we can break out of 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 3: this cycle. 17 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 5: One hundred percent. 18 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 4: It is one of the most important cycles to break 19 00:01:04,039 --> 00:01:04,559 Speaker 4: in life. 20 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 3: I have a million questions. Let's get straight into it, Okay, Anasthasia, 21 00:01:15,839 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 3: Let's just cut to the chase. Why do we keep 22 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 3: dating the wrong person? 23 00:01:19,559 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 4: To answer that, I have to give you a little 24 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 4: bit of psych one oh one. So we're going to 25 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 4: talk about attachment styles, because our attachment style very much 26 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 4: influences who were drawn to, who we date and who 27 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,639 Speaker 4: we might end up in a relationship with So what 28 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 4: is an attachment style to start off with? 29 00:01:36,839 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 5: Our attachment style is essentially. 30 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 4: A pattern of how we emotionally bond with other people. 31 00:01:44,839 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 5: So it's this pattern of. 32 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,919 Speaker 4: How we can have emotional intimacy with others while also 33 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 4: maintaining our own sense of independence and identity in a relationship. Now, 34 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 4: our attachment style is relevant for emotionally close relationships. So 35 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,359 Speaker 4: my attachment style doesn't necessarily play out when it comes 36 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 4: to how I interact with a barista who's making my coffee, 37 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 4: or how I might interact with a colt work that 38 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 4: I don't really have. 39 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 6: Much to do with. 40 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 4: We're really talking about emotionally close relationships our good friends, 41 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 4: our siblings, our families, our partners, etc. 42 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 3: Okay, so there's four main attachment styles, right. 43 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 5: Yes, that's right. 44 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 4: So we've got our secure attachment, which is ultimately what 45 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 4: we're aiming for in life. We've got an anxious attachment style, 46 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 4: there's an avoidant attachment style, and then there's a disorganized 47 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 4: attachment style. So I'll go through each of them and 48 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 4: do a little bit of an explainer. As I explain 49 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 4: these attachment styles, I want you to think of closeness 50 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 4: and distance in a relationship because they all relate to 51 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 4: how emotionally close and how emotionally distant we can be 52 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 4: from someone else. 53 00:02:56,920 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 3: Is it also really important to not bring judgment because 54 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 3: I think it's very easy to be like, oh, anxious 55 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 3: is bad, and then you know, and then that kind 56 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 3: of weighs on us. 57 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 4: Yes, definitely have an open mind about what our attachment 58 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 4: style might be and the attachment style of other people 59 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 4: that we know as well. 60 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 6: So if we. 61 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 4: Start without secure attachment, this is where we feel comfortable 62 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 4: having both closeness and distance in a relationship. So if 63 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 4: I have a secure attachment with my partner, I feel 64 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 4: comfortable and okay when we have those emotionally close intimate moments. 65 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 4: I feel okay with us sharing emotions with one another, 66 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 4: being vulnerable with one another. And I also feel comfortable 67 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 4: when there's that emotional distance when we need physical and 68 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 4: emotional time. 69 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 5: Apart from one another. 70 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 4: So that's what we'd look at as a secure attachment relationship. 71 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 4: And if I can give you an example, there's something 72 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 4: called circle of security training, which is what often young 73 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 4: and new moms will do to help them learn how 74 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 4: to bond with their child And one of the best 75 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 4: visuals I have of what a secure attachment looks like 76 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 4: is where a mum and her little baby are in 77 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 4: a room together and the baby kind of starts to 78 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 4: crawl off, and you know, inspect something in the room, 79 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 4: looks at some sort of toy, and it kind of 80 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 4: goes this certain distance away from mum. It then kind 81 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 4: of turns around, looks back at mum. Mum gives the 82 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 4: kind of nod of yep, you're good, everything's okay, and 83 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 4: then it keeps playing and eventually. 84 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 5: It comes back. 85 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 6: Right. 86 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 5: This is this idea of secure attachment. 87 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 4: I can go away from the person I have the 88 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 4: relationship with, I can feel comfortable being away, and then 89 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 4: I can comfortably come back as well. 90 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 3: So essentially it's finding the relationship and the balance between 91 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 3: being independent but also intimate. 92 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 5: Exactly. 93 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's our secure attachment. Then we'll talk about 94 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 4: our anxious attachment style. Now, this is essentially an attachment 95 00:04:55,320 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 4: style where we feel uncomfortable having emotional. 96 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 5: Space in a relationship. We want to be close. 97 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 4: We crave the closeness, and sometimes we can crave it 98 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 4: a little bit too much. So this might present as 99 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 4: someone who is quite clinging in a relationship. To put 100 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 4: it simply right, there's someone who wants to constantly be 101 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 4: in contact with. 102 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 5: The other person. 103 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 4: If they don't hear back from them, they become really anxious, 104 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 4: they become really worried, They start to, you know, call 105 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 4: them repeatedly. So there's a discomfort with that space in relationships. 106 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: It does remind me of one of my friends, and 107 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 3: let's just call her Lucy. Lucy, I would say, has 108 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 3: this anxious attachment style and is quite clinging to her partner. 109 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 3: And when she messages her partner he doesn't get back 110 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 3: to her. There's a freak out. She freaks out, she 111 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 3: thinks there's something wrong, he's going to break up with her, 112 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 3: and it's just she really spirals. So in a way, 113 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 3: would you say that that's a pattern of an anxious 114 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 3: attachment style. 115 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 4: Absolutely, And unfortunately what can happen is the more anxious 116 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 4: someone behaves in a relationship, the more the other person 117 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 4: might actually step away from them because it feels quite 118 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 4: overwhelming to be on the receiving end of So while 119 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 4: that person, like your friend Lucy, is craving the closeness, 120 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 4: it can actually have the opposite effect. In a relationship 121 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 4: where someone steps further away from them. 122 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's interesting because they want intimacy because they're 123 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 3: scared of being alone. And then those behaviors are acting 124 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 3: out like the partner's stepping away and she doesn't understand. 125 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 3: So what we think is helping is actually making it 126 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 3: worse without realizing absolutely. 127 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 4: And that can be amplified if someone who has an 128 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 4: anxious attachment style partners up with someone who has an 129 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 4: avoidant attachment style. Right, So, the avoidant attachment style is 130 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 4: almost the opposite of the anxious. It's someone who has 131 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 4: discomforted with emotional closeness. It's the person who always feels 132 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 4: like emotionally they're in arm's length away and constantly emotionally 133 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 4: just out of reach, like we can never quite reach them. 134 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 4: And what we sometimes find is when someone who's anxious 135 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 4: pairs with someone who's avoidant, there can almost be this 136 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 4: cat and mouse where the anxious person does their anxious 137 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 4: stuff understandably and the avoidant person keeps stepping further and 138 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 4: further away. 139 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 3: Okay, so those are the three. What about the fourth 140 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 3: attachment style? 141 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 4: So the last one is what we call disorganized attachment, 142 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 4: and this is essentially a combination of the anxious and 143 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 4: the avoidance styles. This is where someone has unfortunately discomfort 144 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 4: with both closeness. 145 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 5: And distance done where me. 146 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, And for the person who is disorganized in their 147 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 4: attachment style, it really can feel uncomfortable but quite chaotic. 148 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 4: It's like this constant push pull feeling, and that person 149 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 4: will feel it in themselves and a person they're in 150 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 4: a relationship with will also feel it from them as well. 151 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 3: So you've talked about the patterns of attachment style, but 152 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 3: where does it all come from? 153 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 5: Good question. 154 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 4: A lot of our attachment patterns come from early childhood, 155 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 4: so they are very much influenced by our family, our 156 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 4: early life experiences, any caregivers that we had in our lives, 157 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 4: or it doesn't have to just be parents, it could 158 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 4: be grandparents or aunties or anyone else who was involved 159 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 4: in sort of raising us. Our attachment styles are very 160 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 4: much influenced and modeled by how they related to us 161 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 4: when we were kids. In addition to that, our attachment 162 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 4: style can also be influenced by major disruptions in attachment. So, 163 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 4: for example, if someone has a parent who suddenly dies 164 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 4: when they're a child, or who suddenly gets up and 165 00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 4: leaves the family and goes to another country and they 166 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 4: never see them again. Right, These kind of experiences of 167 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 4: abandonment can absolutely influence how comfortable or uncomfortable people then 168 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 4: feel in their subsequent relationships in life. 169 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 3: So with these attachment styles, can you change them? Or 170 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 3: is it kind of like this is your stamp you're 171 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 3: anxiously attached in like for us no matter what relationsh yeah, 172 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 3: this is it, you know, can you actually change it? 173 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 4: You can absolutely change it. We all sit somewhere on 174 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 4: a spectrum, right, so we may always be a little 175 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 4: more anxious generally in terms of our temperament in terms 176 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 4: of our attachment. That's fine, But we definitely can change 177 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 4: our attachment. 178 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 5: Patterns with other people. 179 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 4: So the first part, as with anything, is to really 180 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 4: start to become aware of where we might sit in 181 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 4: that spectrum of attachment. Do we feel pretty secure or 182 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 4: are we a little bit more avoidance or more anxious 183 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 4: or maybe a combination of both. So the first part 184 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 4: to be able to change anything is always the awareness. 185 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 3: So our attachment styles the foundation of why we have 186 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 3: relationship patterns, I. 187 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 4: Would say largely, there's always other factors that can come 188 00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 4: into players to why we might be drawn to certain people, 189 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 4: but our attachment style is fundamental to how we relate 190 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 4: to anyone, not just sort of romantic relationships, but anyone 191 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 4: in our life. But we're definitely aiming for that sort 192 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 4: of more secure attachment with most of the people that 193 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 4: we interact with. And as I'm saying that, I'm actually 194 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 4: thinking of you as shining because you've been. 195 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: With YO for what like f fifteen years? 196 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 5: Fifteen years? 197 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 7: My gosh, okay, so it's been a while. Maybe I'm 198 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 7: going to turn it to you. You tell us, like, 199 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 7: what is it that makes a fifteen year relationship work? 200 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 7: Like what's your inside around your attachment style with Yo? 201 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: This is a great question. I'm in the hot seat. 202 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 3: So I feel like with YO and I being together 203 00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 3: for so long, I think what's at the bottom of 204 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 3: it is the trust and safety, but also being able 205 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 3: to navigate conflict and having the ability to communicate. So, 206 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 3: you know, being in a secure relationship doesn't mean that 207 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 3: we don't have disagreements. We definitely do, and I think 208 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 3: actually disagreements are really healthy in relationships because if you 209 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 3: morph into the other person, you lose your you know, independence, 210 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,079 Speaker 3: which we were talking to before when you were outlining 211 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 3: the behaviors Yo and I when we have disagreements, we're 212 00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 3: able to sit there and be able to listen to 213 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 3: each other, validate their perspective, but also not overriding the 214 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 3: other person's perspective. And then it's kind of this dance 215 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 3: of you could say, negotiation but also hearing each other. 216 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 5: What's of green flags is what I hear? 217 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: Green flags? 218 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're listening, well done, you did it. Okay, 219 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 3: tell me about green flags. 220 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 5: Green flags is what we want to look for. 221 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 4: I love that in like, you know, pop culture today, 222 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 4: we've labeled them red flags and green flags, but you know, 223 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 4: they're nice ways of summarizing things that are important to 224 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 4: look for in a relationship and in a partner, and 225 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 4: things that we ideally don't want in a. 226 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 5: Relationship as well. 227 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 4: So green flags, I mean, if I come back to 228 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 4: what you were saying about your relationship with the trust 229 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 4: and the safety, like that emotional safety, to feel like 230 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 4: I can be myself, I can be authentic, I can 231 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 4: be vulnerable and share myself and my emotional experiences with 232 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 4: someone else and know that that's going to be received. 233 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 4: Doesn't mean they have to agree with it, but they 234 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 4: can hold space for it, big green flags right there, 235 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 4: open communication, the ability to disagree. 236 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 6: Right. 237 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 4: We're not always going to agree in relationships, as you've 238 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 4: just pointed out fifteen years. 239 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 5: Probably a few disagreements along the way, of course, but 240 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 5: to be able to do that is so important. 241 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 4: I know that a disagreement isn't going to mean necessarily 242 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 4: the end of a relationship. That we can have tension 243 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 4: within a bigger picture of secure attachment in a relationship. 244 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 4: So lots of green flags, of course, having that mutual 245 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 4: respect for one another, respect for independent identity as well 246 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 4: as respect for one another's opinions as well. 247 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: So what about the other side, What about red flags? 248 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 4: So red flags, red flags mean different things for different people, right, 249 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 4: So what might be a red flag for me might 250 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 4: be different to you. But if we talk about some 251 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 4: sort of evidence based, researched firm red flags, I would 252 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 4: say they're like, obviously abuse in any form. We never 253 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 4: want to tolerate any sort of abuse, things like excessive 254 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 4: jealousy or excessive secrecy. Now, I mean these things will 255 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 4: sometimes come up in small doses in relationships and that 256 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 4: can be okay, But when we are seeing it play 257 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 4: out excessively, that's a red flag, hangar management issues or 258 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 4: any sort of controlling behaviors we might see from the 259 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 4: other person. And then other things like someone gaslighting us, 260 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 4: someone love bombing us. So we love bombing has done 261 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 4: the rounds and socials lately. I've seen quite a few 262 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 4: things online about it. 263 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 5: But really this. 264 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 4: Notion of when someone comes in too strong, too early, 265 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 4: it's actually not a great indicator of how they're feeling 266 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 4: towards us and how the relationship might progress. 267 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 3: So with this green flag red flag system, where does 268 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 3: attraction come into this, Like, how does it impact that? 269 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 4: Gosh, it can impact it in so many ways. It 270 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 4: can make us blind to red flags. Sure, but everything 271 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 4: in moderation. I think this is going to be one 272 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 4: of my catchphrases for this podcast is everything in moderation. Yes, 273 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 4: we want to be looking out for the red flags 274 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 4: and the green flags, and that's important. We don't want 275 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 4: to overdo it though, right, We don't want to just 276 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 4: be there with the clipboard like ticking off in the 277 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 4: two columns what someone's sort. 278 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 5: Of matching up with. 279 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 4: But on the flip side, we also don't want to 280 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 4: go for just like ten out of ten pure chemistry, 281 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 4: fire and spice. 282 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 5: You know that that's also not what we're looking for. 283 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 4: And actually, what we often find is that when someone 284 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 4: does meet another person, if they're dating, and they do 285 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 4: feel that like ten out of ten draw to them, 286 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 4: that's often not a good sign. Let's aim for, like, yeah, 287 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 4: we want to aim for like that seven out of ten, 288 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 4: maybe an eight out of ten kind of fire and passion. 289 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 4: When we feel that ten out of ten, it's often 290 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 4: a sign that something in us is being activated, and 291 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 4: not necessarily in a good way. So if I I'm 292 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 4: an anxiously attached person and I meet someone who's kind 293 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 4: of a little bit on the avoidant end, I might. 294 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 5: Feel that fire, right. That's why we. 295 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 4: Often see anxious and avoidant people in relationships together, which 296 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 4: can end up with really some chaos in the relationship. 297 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 4: So be mindful of the ten out of ten passion 298 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 4: that you feel, and really check in with yourself around 299 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 4: why you're feeling so drawn to this person. Often it's 300 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 4: the case that it's familiar patterns being brought up and activated, 301 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 4: and because they're familiar, they feel good. 302 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 5: They're known to us, but they're not necessarily healthy for us. 303 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: After this short break. 304 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 3: Doctor Anastasia is going to teach you how to understand 305 00:15:55,280 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 3: what your relationship cycle is and exactly how to break it. Okay, Anastasia, 306 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 3: we've talked about attachment styles, red flags and green flags 307 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 3: and all the reasons why we date the wrong people. 308 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: So what do we actually do it? How do we 309 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: get off this train? 310 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 4: So I say that one of the things we all 311 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 4: need to know as women, as people in the world, 312 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 4: we need to know ourselves right before we start looking 313 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 4: for the green flags and the red flags and the 314 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 4: beige flags and whatever colored flags we want to see 315 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 4: in someone else, Let's first look at ourselves, right. We 316 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 4: need to have a solid understanding of who we are 317 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 4: and how we show up in the world and in 318 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 4: relation to other people. So I think it is so 319 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 4: important for us to spend that time doing some self reflection. 320 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 4: This can happen independently, it can happen through a process 321 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 4: of seeing a therapist, but it's important to spend that 322 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 4: time reflecting. So one of the first things I recommend 323 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 4: anyone to do, if you're dating, if you're single, if 324 00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 4: you're in a relationship. 325 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 5: Is reflect on yourself. It's all well and good for 326 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 5: us to talk about the red flags, the green flags, 327 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 5: the big flags, any colored flags. 328 00:17:07,639 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 4: It doesn't matter what color they are. But we need 329 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 4: to first look in words at ourselves. So the first 330 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 4: part of being able to successfully date and find a 331 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 4: partner that will be a good match for us is 332 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 4: to do that in a reflective work, and then from 333 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 4: that point on we can figure out who might be 334 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 4: a good match for us based on what our attachment 335 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 4: style is, what our values are, and what we want 336 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 4: in life. 337 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 3: So what are the kind of questions we should be 338 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 3: asking ourselves. 339 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 4: We want to try to understand our attachment style, our 340 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 4: love language, and how we express and receive love in 341 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 4: a relationship. So we might ask ourselves questions like, how 342 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 4: do I show up in a relationship? 343 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 5: Who am I? 344 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 4: What parts of my identity come forward when I'm in 345 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 4: a relationship? What's this like when I'm with my family? 346 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 4: What part of myself shows up with my family? What 347 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 4: about with my friends? What about in past relationships? Who 348 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 4: was I in past relationships? How did I show love? 349 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 5: How did I. 350 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 4: Feel love in a relationship? But also what's my model 351 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 4: for a relationship? Being like, you know, how did my 352 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 4: parents relate to one another? How was love and care 353 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 4: and romance expressed in the household and in my family. 354 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 4: And what did I learn from that? You know, what 355 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 4: did I observe as a kid growing up watching my 356 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 4: parents or my family interact with one another and with me. 357 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 4: So these are pretty big questions, right I don't expect 358 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 4: people to have answers to these overnight or sit down 359 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 4: and you know, suddenly write out all the answers to these. 360 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 4: They take a bit of time for us to reflect on, 361 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 4: so we can learn about kind of our model for 362 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 4: relationships from our family. But then we might also want 363 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 4: to ask ourselves questions like, am I someone who jumps 364 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 4: in two feet right from the start of a relationship 365 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 4: and I give all of myself to that other person? 366 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 5: Am I someone who's super quick to run? 367 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 4: As soon as I see something that you know, doesn't 368 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 4: feel like it fits with my life and who I 369 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 4: am and the life I want to live, I jump 370 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 4: out really quick. 371 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 5: Am I someone who gets the ick really easily? 372 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 6: You know? 373 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 5: All these questions we can ask ourselves. 374 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: Is ITCK a clinical term? 375 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 6: No? 376 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 8: No, no, But I use it because people seem to 377 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 8: relate to this idea of the ick, something that something 378 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 8: that's off putting or is a bit of a turn off, right, 379 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 8: And you know do we jump and run as soon 380 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 8: as we notice that there. 381 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 3: Was something you said before love language? Can you tell 382 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 3: me more about that? 383 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 4: So the rundown on love languages, it's said that there 384 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 4: are five main types of love languages. 385 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 5: So these are the ways that. 386 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,959 Speaker 4: We like to both express love to other people and 387 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:56,719 Speaker 4: receive love. So the five categories are physical touch, words 388 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 4: of affirmation, acts of service so doing something for someone else, 389 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 4: spending quality time together, and then. 390 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 5: Receiving and giving gifts. 391 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 4: Right, So what we'll find is that different people will 392 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 4: have preferences for how they like to express and show 393 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 4: their love to other people, and there'll be different preferences 394 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 4: for how we like to receive that as well. 395 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 3: Okay, you've given us a lot of frameworks which have 396 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 3: been very helpful. 397 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: What's our homework? 398 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 5: Two things for homework. 399 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 4: First of all, go back and listen to those questions 400 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 4: that help us reflect on who we are and how 401 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 4: we are in a relationship, and spend some time maybe 402 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 4: writing journaling around those questions. The second piece of homework 403 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 4: is for the listeners who aren't sure of what their 404 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 4: ideal relationship actually looks like. Think of and find a 405 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 4: model of a relationship two people that you know who 406 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 4: are in a healthy romantic relationship, and write down a 407 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 4: list of the qualities that you can identify that that 408 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 4: relationship has. So not necessarily the qualities of the individual 409 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 4: people or what the people are like, but the qualities 410 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 4: the relationship has. So this might be things like they've 411 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 4: got a great sense of fun and humor when they're together, 412 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 4: like they've got this great banter that goes on, or 413 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 4: they've got this great sense of security when they're with 414 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 4: one another, Like when I see them out in public, 415 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 4: you know, and I see one of them, they'll speak 416 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 4: really fondly about the other person even when they're not around, right, 417 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 4: So write out this list of qualities of what you 418 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 4: see play out in that relationship. And this can be 419 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 4: a bit of a guide for you to know what 420 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 4: you're looking for, because we want to know what we're 421 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 4: looking for when we're going out on that dating journey 422 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 4: and world of what qualities we want in a partner, 423 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 4: but what qualities we want in a relationship. So spend 424 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 4: some time writing that list out for yourself. And I'm 425 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 4: also going to say this is not just for the 426 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 4: women listening. This is for the men as well. We 427 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 4: can all benefit from these types of exercises of getting 428 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 4: to know ourselves better and getting a clearer picture of 429 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 4: what it is we want in a relationship. 430 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 3: So it's been single actually a really important part of 431 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 3: breaking relationship patterns. 432 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 4: Yes and no, there's definitely benefits in spending time being single, 433 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 4: especially for the people out there who might be the 434 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 4: serial daters who maybe jump from relationship to relationship or 435 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 4: are constantly going on dates trying to find that right person. 436 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 4: There's definitely benefit in spending time with ourselves, getting to 437 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 4: know ourselves and building that strong sense of independent identity. 438 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 4: That's what being single can help us do. Build ourselves, 439 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 4: build our sense of self, our self worth, and our identity. 440 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 4: And that's really important for any relationship that we show 441 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,479 Speaker 4: up in, whether it's a romantic one, a friendship, our 442 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 4: relationship with our family. Having a strong sense of self 443 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 4: is really important. But it's also important for us to 444 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,120 Speaker 4: date and to interact with other people because that's when 445 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 4: our attachment style is going to show up. That's when 446 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 4: it's going to get triggered up. If I'm an anxiously 447 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 4: attached person in relationships. I'm probably not going to feel 448 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 4: as a anxious when I'm single because I'm not waiting 449 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 4: for that person to text back or I'm not you know, 450 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 4: wondering where they are and when they're coming home from 451 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 4: having drinks with their friends. Right, So, there is something 452 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 4: important to be said about working with our attachment styles 453 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 4: when we're in a romantic relationship, because that is when 454 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 4: it's going to show up. 455 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 3: After this shortbreak, Anastasia is going to give one of 456 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:43,199 Speaker 3: you advice on your relationship dilemma. Stay with us, barb, 457 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 3: barb Bibby, I'm having a serious crisis. 458 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 4: A BRB having a crisis. 459 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 3: Welcome back to but are you happy for today's BRB 460 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 3: Having a Crisis segment? 461 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: I am bringing you Naomi. 462 00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 2: Over the past six months, I've noticed that most of 463 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 2: the dates that I've been going on haven't really gone. 464 00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 6: Beyond like a one or two night thing. 465 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm aware of the situation, like I'll go out 466 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 2: with a guy even if his dating profile says that 467 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 2: he's looking for something casual, and even though I'm hoping 468 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 2: for something more, if we have fun together and the 469 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 2: conversation's good, then I'd still give it a shot. But 470 00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 2: I end up getting disappointed when it doesn't turn into 471 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 2: something serious, and then I have one of those light 472 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 2: bulb moments. 473 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 6: But then I've also. 474 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 2: Been ghosted by guys who say they're looking for something 475 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 2: long term. 476 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 6: So we go on a few dates, things go. 477 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 2: Well, we even sleep together, and then suddenly they disappear, 478 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 2: even though we seem to get along and we were 479 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 2: on the same page. 480 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 6: I guess that's just them being shitty. Right. Have I 481 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 6: been dating the wrong people? And if so, where do 482 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 6: I find the right ones? 483 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 3: Oh? This is hard, Anastasia. What advice do you have 484 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 3: for Naomi? 485 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 4: Oh, the guys who ghost come on, guys, get it together. 486 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 5: Can we stop with the ghosting? Is what I want 487 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 5: to say first up. 488 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 4: But Naomi, look, I hear you, And the thing is, 489 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 4: for most of us, sometimes we sacrifice. 490 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 5: What we truly want for being liked. 491 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 4: Right, So I'm hearing that there's sometimes a bit of 492 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 4: a pattern of dating guys who are saying they don't 493 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 4: want a long term relationship, but it is something that 494 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 4: you're looking for. So the number one thing I would 495 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 4: say is don't ever walk into a relationship or a 496 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 4: dating situation hoping or thinking that we can change the 497 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 4: other person. We like to think we can change other people, 498 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 4: and sometimes it would be so nice to be able 499 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 4: to change other people, but we fundamentally can't. So I 500 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 4: guess the advice and guidance I would give someone like 501 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 4: Naomi is again, do that self reflective work. What can 502 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 4: you change within yourself rather than what can we change 503 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 4: in other people? And I would encourage you to be 504 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 4: really clear with yourself and the people you're dating about 505 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 4: what your hopes and expectations are for a relationship. Now, 506 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 4: this doesn't have to be something that we completely lay 507 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 4: on the table on the first dag. 508 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 5: You know, our five to ten year plan and how 509 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 5: many children we want. 510 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 4: I mean, it could be that could be fine too, 511 00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 4: but it doesn't have to be. But have some clarity, 512 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 4: at least for yourself as to what you're looking for, 513 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 4: and if it's a long term relationship, make sure that 514 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 4: you are matching and going on dates with people who 515 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 4: are saying at the very least that that's what they're 516 00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 4: looking for as well, and have those conversations early. Start 517 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 4: to suss out in those first few dates if that 518 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 4: is actually what the other person wants, that is looking for, 519 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 4: or maybe they think it's what they want, but they're 520 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 4: not quite sure. 521 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 6: Right. 522 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 4: This is a process of gathering information about the other person, 523 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 4: who they are and what they want, so that we 524 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 4: can make the best informed decisions for ourselves that we can. 525 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 3: I have a feeling a lot of people are going 526 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 3: to be bookmarking this episode and sending it to their friends. 527 00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 3: It's one of those episodes and to saysa, can you 528 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 3: give us a recap of what we covered today? 529 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 4: Absolutely, and I actually recommend writing these down and keeping 530 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 4: them handy when you're about to go on a date. 531 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 4: So first up, we can't change or control other people, 532 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 4: but we do have agency over ourselves. Second, know yourself 533 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 4: and know your attachment style. Third, reflect on the models 534 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 4: of relationships that you've grown up with. Fourth, when you're dating, 535 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 4: be the person you want to be in a relationship with. 536 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 4: Don't try and be liked or desired by the other person. 537 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 4: And last, when someone shows you who they are, believe them. 538 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 3: All such pearls of wisdom, and really they apply to 539 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 3: all relationships with other people, not just romantic ones. 540 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 5: One hundred percent. 541 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 4: Next week, we're diving headfirst into a topic that I 542 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 4: am very passionate about and that is, how to separate 543 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 4: the helpful from the harmful on therapy talk and whether 544 00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 4: or not we should be getting mental health advice from 545 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 4: the influencers out there. 546 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 3: If you have a burning question, there's a few ways 547 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 3: to get in touch with us. 548 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: Links in the show notes. 549 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 4: And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't 550 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 4: a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present 551 00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 4: here should always take into account your personal history. The 552 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 4: executive producer of But Are You Happy is Niama Brown. 553 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: Tarlie Blackman is our senior producer. 554 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 5: Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown. 555 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: I'm a Shany Dante and. 556 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 4: I'm doctor Anastasia Heronus. The names and stories of people 557 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 4: discussed have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity. 558 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 4: If this conversation brought up any difficult feelings for you, 559 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 4: we have links for more resources in the show notes 560 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 4: around the topics we discussed today. You can also reach 561 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 4: out to organizations like Beyond Blue or Lifeline if you're 562 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 4: wanting more immediate support. 563 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.