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Speaker 1: It's a dreary Friday in October nineteen seventy six in Knoxville, Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: and sixteen year old twenty Gibson arrives at school.

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Speaker 2: She's going on a field trip today with her horticulture class.

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Speaker 1: It's not until she hops on the bus that mister

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Speaker 1: Dunlap tells them where they're off to, the Great Smoky

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Speaker 1: Mountains National Park.

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Speaker 2: Trenny's face falls a hike it's raining. She didn't even

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Speaker 2: pack a jacket.

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Speaker 1: Thankfully, Robert Simpson is also on the trip, her big

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Speaker 1: brother's best friend. He chivalrously offers her his warm brown

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Speaker 1: plaid jacket. She happily accepts. Once at the base of

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Speaker 1: the hike, forty students head off into the mountains, trailed

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Speaker 1: by their teacher. But when mister Dunlap starts taking roll

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Speaker 1: call at three point thirty that afternoon, while back on

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Speaker 1: the bus, one name remains unticked.

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Speaker 2: Where is twenty.

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Speaker 1: It's a question we still don't have the answer to

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Speaker 1: fifty years later, but there are lots of unanswered questions

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Speaker 1: from that day in the Smokies, like why did another

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Speaker 1: student turn up in possession of Trenny's jewelry? Why did

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Speaker 1: Robert refuse to cooperate with police inquiries? Why was Trenny

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Speaker 1: sent tracked to a nearby road where it suddenly disappeared?

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Speaker 2: How did the disappearance of.

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Speaker 1: A sixteen year old girl fade into history? I'm Jemma

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Speaker 1: Bath and this is True Crime Conversations, a podcast exploring

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Speaker 1: the world's most notorious crimes by speaking to the people who.

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Speaker 2: Know the most about them.

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Speaker 1: Fellow students who were there that day, say twenty was

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Speaker 1: on the main trail until she wasn't. One minute she

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Speaker 1: was crouched down looking off to the side, and the

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Speaker 1: next she was just gone. She was never seen again.

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Speaker 1: Robert was supposed to be looking out for her that day.

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Speaker 1: He's her big brother, but his behavior in the aftermath

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Speaker 1: of Treenny's disappearance still concerns those who are looking for

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Speaker 1: her all these decades later. So does the behavior of

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Speaker 1: her classmates. There are many strange and hard to comprehend

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Speaker 1: elements of this story. It's one of those cases that

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Speaker 1: sits with you long after you've finish hearing about it.

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Speaker 1: Tim Pillary and Lance Rheensterner are the co hosts of

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Speaker 1: the US Missing podcast, and they produced an extensive multi

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Speaker 1: part series about Treenni's case back in twenty twenty and

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Speaker 1: have provided updates on their podcast since then. They join

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Speaker 1: us now, Tim Lance, thanks so much for joining us

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Speaker 1: on True Crime Conversations. This is a case that you

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Speaker 1: have both revisited quite a bit, and after reading about

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Speaker 1: Trenny and her story, I can definitely see why.

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Speaker 2: It's one of those cases that.

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Speaker 1: Really sticks with you. It kind of stays in your mind,

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Speaker 1: doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it really does. It's a haunting disappearance about a

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Speaker 3: young girl sixteen years old on a class field trip

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Speaker 3: who should not have gone missing. There was around forty

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Speaker 3: students with her around her on the field trip, and

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Speaker 3: it is perplexing, to say the least, that she went

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Speaker 3: missing among her classmates on this field trip.

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Speaker 1: Take us back to the seventies. Who was sixteen year

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Speaker 1: old Trenny Gibson? What was she about? What was she into?

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Speaker 4: Sure from what we have looked into, and we have

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Speaker 4: to give a lot of props to Laura Risty. She

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Speaker 4: is the researcher who we've worked with. She was the

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Speaker 4: one that brought Trenny to us. She actually had a

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Speaker 4: really amazing story about what happened to her.

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Speaker 5: When she saw Trenny's picture.

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Speaker 4: So in the earlier episode, she tells us how she

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Speaker 4: saw Trenny's picture and it just kind of floored her,

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Speaker 4: like Trenny was almost calling out to her, and that

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Speaker 4: kind of minded me when you said that this is

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Speaker 4: one of those stories that sticks with you. So it

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Speaker 4: just grabbed Laura Risti. She reached out to us, and

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Speaker 4: what we work off of is primarily the research that

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Speaker 4: she's done and where sort of her vehicle to get

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Speaker 4: Trenny's case out there. And she's just so thorough so

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Speaker 4: big shout out to her, But to talk about Trenny

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Speaker 4: in the seventies, Training was born in Fulton County, Georgia,

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Speaker 4: and she moved to Knoxville, Tennessee, and that was around

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Speaker 4: the late sixties, nineteen sixty seven nineteen sixty eight. She

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Speaker 4: was a junior at Bearden High School at the time

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Speaker 4: of her disappearance, so this was the high school that

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Speaker 4: she was on the field trip with that really, honestly

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Speaker 4: shouldn't never have happened in the first place, because the

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Speaker 4: weather was not permitting to go on a hike in

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Speaker 4: the Great Smoky National Park. Very skilled at drawing, she

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Speaker 4: enjoyed reading. She liked to help her mother cook. She

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Speaker 4: looked after her little brother. She had a really good

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Speaker 4: relationship with her older brother, Bob. She didn't have a

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Speaker 4: lot of very close friends, but the friends that she

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Speaker 4: did have described her as somebody who was sort of,

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Speaker 4: like I want to say, like a wallflower, and I

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Speaker 4: don't mean this in a bad way, but nothing very remarkable.

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Speaker 4: She was smart, but she wasn't the smartest, you know,

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Speaker 4: she kind of blended in a lot, but she did.

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Speaker 4: What they've said is that she did kind of walk

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Speaker 4: to the beat of her own drum. She wasn't as

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Speaker 4: outgoing as her sister. I think her sister's name was Tina,

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Speaker 4: who was a little bit more social than Trenny. And

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Speaker 4: they came from this family that was on the surface

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Speaker 4: pretty tight knit.

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Speaker 1: Why was this trip such a big deal for Trenny

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Speaker 1: in that her family were quite strict and something like

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Speaker 1: this heading out on her own, It was a big deal,

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Speaker 1: wasn't it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't think she had spent a lot of

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Speaker 3: time away from home before this, and this was a

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Speaker 3: field trip that I want to say was an hour

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Speaker 3: or ninety minute ride from beard in high school, which

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Speaker 3: was in Knoxville, Tennessee, to the Great Smoky Mountain National Park,

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Speaker 3: which is, you know, a very large national park. It

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Speaker 3: straddles the line between North Carolina and Tennessee. It's about

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Speaker 3: half a million acres over eight hundred square miles, so

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Speaker 3: it's a large park. Now, as far as why maybe

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Speaker 3: it shouldn't have happened, the kids didn't know where they

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Speaker 3: were going that day. This is a really weird part

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Speaker 3: of the story. And to fully understand it, I think

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Speaker 3: you have to put your mind back in nineteen seventy six.

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Speaker 3: This horticulturist teacher was the only chaperone on the bus

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Speaker 3: that brought the students. He told the kids that there

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Speaker 3: was a field trip, arranged it with the school, but

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Speaker 3: did not tell them where they were going. And I

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Speaker 3: find this to be a big problem because it was

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Speaker 3: cold and rainy that day, so training didn't even have

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Speaker 3: a jacket to wear outdoors on this hike, and she

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Speaker 3: actually borrowed her brother's friend, her brother's friend's jacket to

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Speaker 3: wear for this. So she was a little you know,

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Speaker 3: the family was a little bit strict, they were a

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Speaker 3: little bit religious. But I don't think she'd ever really

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Speaker 3: gone off on her own even to this degree, and

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Speaker 3: you know, she was surrounded by students. This shouldn't have

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Speaker 3: been a big deal necessarily, but for her young sixteen

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Speaker 3: year old girl, I don't think she's ever even done this.

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Speaker 4: I just want to preface before we get into any

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Speaker 4: further details. There are a lot of Roberts and Bob's

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Speaker 4: in this story, so we'll try to be clear as

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Speaker 4: to which Rob or Bob we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: A very popular name back in the day. It seems

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Speaker 1: it is very wild, though, to get back to that

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Speaker 1: point of the fact that forty sets of parents were

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Speaker 1: perfectly happy for their kids to go on a field

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Speaker 1: trip and.

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Speaker 2: They have no idea where they're going.

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Speaker 1: Like, as a parent myself, I can never imagine I mean,

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Speaker 1: my kids are a little but sending my kids off

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Speaker 1: to school and being like, have fun.

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Speaker 2: On your field trip wherever you went off. It's wild.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that always struck me as odd. And maybe it's

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Speaker 4: just because we don't have those details. Maybe those details

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Speaker 4: are there, but they're just kind of buried in the

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Speaker 4: you know, in the sands of time.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 4: I think maybe some parents were like, Okay, it'd be

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Speaker 4: nice to know here where my kid's going. So I

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Speaker 4: can properly prepare them. But I could see where the

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Speaker 4: school's coming from too, But also like this should have

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Speaker 4: been like how long in advance where this was this planned?

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Speaker 4: You know, we're we're not surely like when they act

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Speaker 4: the kids actually knew when they were going to be

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Speaker 4: like like I don't, I don't know when they said

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Speaker 4: there's going to be a field trip on this particular day,

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Speaker 4: like a month.

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Speaker 3: Well usually you know today, and even twenty years ago

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Speaker 3: or thirty years ago, when we were in school, there

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Speaker 3: would be a permission slip that your parents had to sign.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know if that was not the case

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Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy six, but apparently if that did happen,

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Speaker 3: it didn't say the destination where the field trip was

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Speaker 3: was headed to.

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Speaker 1: At least so they could pack appropriate shoes. Like, come on,

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Speaker 1: it's a hike.

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Speaker 4: It's a hike in the in the I mean, Tim

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Speaker 4: described it as large, but there's like so many, so

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Speaker 4: many hikes out there, there's so many different types of elevation.

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Speaker 1: So it's proper, like we would call it here bush,

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Speaker 1: it's proper trees, terrain, hills, cliffs, rocks, like it's quite

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Speaker 1: rugged I.

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Speaker 4: Would say that, yeah, I would say that some of

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Speaker 4: those paths, some of those hiking trails are are quite rugged.

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Speaker 4: I don't think that the one that the class was

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Speaker 4: going on was going to like push them to those

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Speaker 4: types of limits. But if you got off off the path,

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Speaker 4: I can imagine that you could encounter some some some

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Speaker 4: rough too in there.

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Speaker 3: So I believe their hike was from the parking lot

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Speaker 3: that was formerly known as Klingman's Dome. It's now called

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Speaker 3: Kowohe Parking Area, And I believe the hike was about

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Speaker 3: three and a half miles round trip to Andrew's Bald,

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Speaker 3: which is a mountain and it has like a grassy

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Speaker 3: top on the you know, at the top of it.

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Speaker 3: That's why it's called the Bald. I guess. So that

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Speaker 3: was the area, So that yeah, I mean again just

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Speaker 3: back to the point like of preparation, Like you know,

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Speaker 3: it's three and a half miles, Yeah, you should be

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Speaker 3: you should be prepared for that, especially it was a

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Speaker 3: little rainy, like probably a little muddy. Yeah, they're walking

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Speaker 3: on dirt and grass.

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Speaker 1: So Trenty arrives at school, she finds out she's going

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Speaker 1: not only on a field trip but on a hike,

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Speaker 1: she realizes she doesn't have a jacket.

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Speaker 2: She gets one from a friend.

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Speaker 1: An important detail I would like to touch on is

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Speaker 1: that she leaves the rest of her belongings behind, doesn't she,

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Speaker 1: which becomes important later, But she leaves them with her mum.

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Speaker 4: Right, I think that's part of I think that that's

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Speaker 4: part of not knowing where she was going. You know,

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Speaker 4: maybe just kind of travel with the smallest amount that

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Speaker 4: you have so you don't lose anything or forget anything.

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Speaker 5: But but yeah, you're yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I think at that point, when her mom dropped

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Speaker 3: her off at school, she actually was told by her

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Speaker 3: classmate where the field trip was. So I think at

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Speaker 3: the time that she left her book and I'm not one,

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Speaker 3: but I think this is how it went. That she

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Speaker 3: left her books with her mom after learning where they

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Speaker 3: were going. She's like, Okay, I'm not going to need

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Speaker 3: these all day. I mean, frankly, the field trip was

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Speaker 3: going to be longer than the school day anyway, by

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Speaker 3: you know, a couple hours, two three hours at least. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: she left her books and purse in her mom's car,

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Speaker 3: and the jacket that she was wearing was Robert Simpson's

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Speaker 3: jacket who was her brother Bob's friend. So Robert Simpson

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Speaker 3: was a senior and Trenny was a junior at Beard

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Speaker 3: and High. And Robert Simpson was a good friend of

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Speaker 3: Bob and apparently asked by Trenny's brother to watch over her.

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Speaker 3: So that was maybe one reason why he lent her

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Speaker 3: the jacket. Apparently Trenny gave him her sandwich or half

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Speaker 3: of her lunch, I believe as well. And so they

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Speaker 3: were hanging out on this hike for at least part

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Speaker 3: of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so take us to the hike. What do we

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Speaker 1: know in terms of what happened? She started off the

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Speaker 1: hike with Robert basically, and the forty kids were scattered

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Speaker 1: up the trail, wandering on this hike, teacher behind them.

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Speaker 1: What do we know about their movements or her movements?

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Speaker 5: I think a lot of it is like what don't

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Speaker 5: we know?

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Speaker 4: Like we don't know what went down between the two

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Speaker 4: of them when they were hiking together.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, they were hiking together.

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Speaker 4: Robert was apparently, I don't know, heating his friends or

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Speaker 4: making sure he was doing what his friend asked her

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Speaker 4: brother had asked him to do, which was look over

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Speaker 4: her during you know while he was gone, he was

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Speaker 4: in the Navy, so he was actually coming back later

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Speaker 4: on in the year, I think in July, so he

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Speaker 4: had asked him to look after her, sort of protective

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Speaker 4: of his little sister.

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Speaker 5: But we can just kind of speculate.

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Speaker 4: On what was going on between the two of them

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Speaker 4: because they weren't staying with the group so much. So

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Speaker 4: at some point we do know that Trenny decided to

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Speaker 4: separate with Robert and start back down to the parking lot.

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Speaker 4: And now we only have Robert's account of what happened then.

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Speaker 4: So he claimed that it was sort of an amicable separation.

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Speaker 4: They had hung out, like Tim said, they split the

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Speaker 4: bagged lunch between the two of them, and Trenny wanted

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Speaker 4: to head back down, and he said he claimed, he

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Speaker 4: said he left the trail, and this part, it's it

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Speaker 4: makes me laugh. I don't find it funny, but it

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Speaker 4: just makes me laugh. He said he left the trail

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Speaker 4: to quote track a Bear, which is I don't I

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Speaker 4: was young and stupid, and I underst stand it. Like

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Speaker 4: if you're sixteen, seventeen fifty, whatever that age range, I

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Speaker 4: don't know if.

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Speaker 5: That, I don't know if you'd ever be that like naive.

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Speaker 4: To to if you saw a bear or a bear,

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Speaker 4: track to go try to find this bear. And I

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Speaker 4: remember when Laura Risty had told us that all of

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Speaker 4: us were just like what, yeah, why was anyone track

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Speaker 4: a bear?

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Speaker 1: To be clear, there are bears here, right, Bears are

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Speaker 1: pretty common in the Smokies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, yeah, okay, definitely bears in the park and

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Speaker 3: you don't want to meet one like so that that's

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Speaker 3: the weird part about that.

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Speaker 5: If he was entarily out there, especially he.

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Speaker 3: Actually right, So I think from our point of view,

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Speaker 3: it's almost an excuse for him to not be accounted for.

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Speaker 4: I would say, but I don't want to keep like

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Speaker 4: getting into this again, but I can't stop myself. If

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Speaker 4: you didn't want to be accounted, like, come up with

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Speaker 4: a better lie than Zack a bear. I had to

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Speaker 4: go to the bathroom in the woods, or I heard

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Speaker 4: something I heard like someone yelling or something like something

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Speaker 4: else like don't don't come up with someone that's just

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Speaker 4: gonna like constantly stick in people's head and just sound

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Speaker 4: like a lie.

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Speaker 5: So like immediately it's weird.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it is weird. And most of the

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Speaker 3: students don't really remember him on the trip at all.

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Speaker 3: So that's why I mentioned that. I think it was

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Speaker 3: an excuse to not be accounted for necessarily because you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't know how long he was gone exactly. But

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Speaker 3: I think if you had the story of oh I

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Speaker 3: heard screaming or something like that, that's a much quicker thing,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there were some other students that can kind of

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Speaker 1: account for seeing Treny kind of like the last moment

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Speaker 1: she was seeing.

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Speaker 2: Can you talk us through that?

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Speaker 3: Yes, So this group of her classmates described her as

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Speaker 3: walking like she was on a mission, so with some purpose,

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Speaker 3: and she up with a group of classmates, but then

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Speaker 3: she kind of she kind of zoomed past them, I guess.

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Speaker 3: And one student said that she stopped suddenly and ducked

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Speaker 3: and looked to the right and crouched down and then

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Speaker 3: stepped off of the trail and that was it. And

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Speaker 3: when I guess this group of students got to that

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Speaker 3: spot where she was, they looked to the side and

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Speaker 3: they did not see her. And that and that is

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Speaker 3: the moment when she disappeared.

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Speaker 1: Which they didn't know at the time. When was it

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Speaker 1: discovered that she was missing.

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Speaker 3: When they counted back at the bus. I believe that

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Speaker 3: was when they realized that she was missing, and that,

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Speaker 3: you know, mister Dunlaps, this only chaperone had, you know,

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Speaker 3: had some explaining to do. And you know, I did

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Speaker 3: give this guy a hard time on some of our

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Speaker 3: recordings because I just couldn't imagine why he did the

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Speaker 3: things that he did. And apparently he was questioned by

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Speaker 3: police and even you know, somewhat considered to be a

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Speaker 3: suspect at one point, but it is not now and

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Speaker 3: did you know, help launch this search for her and

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Speaker 3: wasted no time in doing so. So I really don't

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Speaker 3: think this guy is suspicious. I think he was kind

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Speaker 3: of like a hippie guy, you know, a hippie horticulturist

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Speaker 3: teacher guy from nineteen seventy six, who was like, hey,

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Speaker 3: let's go, let's go to the park. You know, it's

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Speaker 3: not a big deal.

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Speaker 2: And obviously he had no pity kids, no problem.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, right.

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Speaker 1: So Robert was accounted for all well and good in

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Speaker 1: that roll call as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, he actually was accounted for, But there are

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Speaker 4: some of the other students who claimed that he was

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Speaker 4: maybe breathing heavily, which take that with a grain of salt.

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Speaker 4: I'm not like pointing figures at Robert, but he was

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Speaker 4: slightly out of shape. He was a smoker, and they

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Speaker 4: had just gone on a hike, so I'm sure he

337
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Speaker 4: was probably a little bit out of breath. I think

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Speaker 4: there was even a description of him being like maybe annoyed,

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Speaker 4: not upset, but annoyed. So I'm not sure what we

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Speaker 4: can take from that, but I want to just go

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Speaker 4: back real quick to what you had said again about

342
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Speaker 4: this story staying with you. Like every one of these

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Speaker 4: mysteries that we talk about, these stories have these moments

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Speaker 4: where it's something that is like the flag that like

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Speaker 4: will tell you this.

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Speaker 5: Is a special one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And a description of Trenny kind of charging past

348
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Speaker 4: the group walking with a mission stopping. They remember it

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Speaker 4: to the point where they know that she turned to

350
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Speaker 4: the right and crouched down and then went into the woods.

351
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Speaker 4: Like That's one of those like sort of touchstone type

352
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Speaker 4: moments for this story, and it does stick with you

353
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Speaker 4: because it presents such a like.

354
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Speaker 5: A incredible visual of this happening.

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Speaker 1: I also think that a lot of the moments, the

356
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Speaker 1: reason they stick in my mind as well is they

357
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Speaker 1: quite odd. You're like, what why, holy Like, what do

358
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Speaker 1: you mean you crouched down and turned to the right

359
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:03,880
Speaker 1: and then you disappeared?

360
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Speaker 2: What do you mean you were tracking a bear? What

361
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Speaker 2: do you like? It's I think it.

362
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Speaker 1: It stuck in my mind, and I kept ruminating on

363
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Speaker 1: it because there were so many moments and We're going

364
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Speaker 1: to get to more of those moments where I just thought,

365
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Speaker 1: how why, Like, it's it's her brain trying to work

366
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Speaker 1: out what happened when it's so bizarre, right, right, Yeah.

367
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Speaker 3: And the next day, apparently in that area where Trenny

368
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Speaker 3: had stepped off of the trail, they found a beer

369
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Speaker 3: can and cigarette butts in that exact area, and I

370
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Speaker 3: think it was like a little clear, like almost like

371
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Speaker 3: grass had been I don't know, like pushed down, like

372
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Speaker 3: someone was sitting there or crouching down there. It's unknown

373
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Speaker 3: if that is related to the disappearance of Trennie Gibson,

374
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Speaker 3: but I would have to imagine that it is. But

375
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Speaker 3: I but I don't know for.

376
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Speaker 1: Sure, because would Trenny have been a beer drinker or

377
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Speaker 1: a cigarette smoker?

378
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Speaker 3: I think she was a cigarette smoker, right, she actually

379
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,399
Speaker 3: did smoke cigarettes. Yeah, I don't think, like you know, regularly,

380
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Speaker 3: probably I don't think she like had a pack of

381
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 3: smokes on her. I think she would probably bum one

382
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,399
Speaker 3: here and there is as it was known. But the

383
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 3: beer can is a little more curious because I don't

384
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,399
Speaker 3: know how someone got that beer can to the park,

385
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Speaker 3: like I guess they put it in their pocket or

386
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 3: had it in their book bag. I guess a coat

387
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 3: pocket could easily carry a can or two. But you know,

388
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Speaker 3: assuming that those beers in that cigarette came from someone

389
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Speaker 3: on the on the field trip as students, that's a

390
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,960
Speaker 3: little peculiar to me. But it would also be weird,

391
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Speaker 3: you know, if someone random was just at that spot

392
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Speaker 3: off the trail drinking beers and smoking cigarettes too, well.

393
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Speaker 1: It kind of suggests that Trenny might have seen someone

394
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Speaker 1: and that's why she turned ry.

395
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Speaker 5: M hmm, I guess, is what you But it must

396
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Speaker 5: been somebody that she knew.

397
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Speaker 2: Because why would you walk towards someone you didn't know.

398
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Speaker 4: Creeping in the woods drinking a beer smoking cigarettes. I'm

399
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 4: just paying the picture. I don't know if the person

400
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 4: was actually drinking a beer and smoking cigarettes, like Tim said,

401
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 4: they that's just what they found. But if that was

402
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 4: the case, I mean, you'd have to know the person.

403
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 1: Let's go back to roll call, because to mister Dunlap's credit,

404
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 1: he moved pretty quickly in kind of alerting authorities and

405
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 1: getting a search under way, didn't He.

406
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, he took off and he searched Double Springs to

407
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Speaker 4: see if Trenny had gone off trail or taken the

408
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,879
Speaker 4: wrong trail. So Double Springs is an area that you

409
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 4: would end up if you were to go off of

410
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,400
Speaker 4: that trail that they hiked. He did send a student

411
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 4: named Danny Johnson to search back up the trail. So

412
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 4: he immediately once the roll call happened and they realized

413
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 4: it was Trenny that wasn't there, he immediately went into action.

414
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 4: He called the National Park Service at about four pm

415
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,159
Speaker 4: to alert them that someone that a student had gone missing,

416
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 4: and a ranger came down and helped mister Dunlap search again.

417
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 4: So that was around four pm, and then by six

418
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 4: point thirty I believe that night the Park Service had

419
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 4: nineteen volunteers that were searching the area.

420
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Speaker 5: So when was the roll call? Three thirty? So just

421
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 5: three hours later.

422
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 4: They have a pretty decent search team, like professional National

423
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Speaker 4: Park Service search team out there and nothing which is wild.

424
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Speaker 2: Another detail that stuck with me is that.

425
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Speaker 1: Her family didn't find out that she was missing until

426
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 1: the bus rocked up at school and she's not on it.

427
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: Because you've got to remember it's the seventies. There's no

428
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: mobile phones, they can't call ahead, So her mum's waiting

429
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 1: for her to come off this bus and there's no

430
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Speaker 1: trainy like that must have been.

431
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Speaker 2: Horrific.

432
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 1: What happened with the family. Did they move straight up

433
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 1: to the park. How are they involved in the search.

434
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Speaker 3: That's a good question. I do think they went to

435
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Speaker 3: the search the next day. Oh I'm not sure about

436
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 3: that evening, but I would imagine that was an anxiety

437
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 3: ridden night. I can't imagine the fear you would feel

438
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 3: as a parent hearing that your kid isn't on this

439
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,439
Speaker 3: bus that she was supposed to be on.

440
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: Interesting that they went the next day. What kind of

441
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: whether are we talking about? Overnight in October in the Smokies.

442
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: Can someone survive that?

443
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think someone could survive it.

444
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 4: It wouldn't be comfortable, you might, I mean, it wouldn't

445
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 4: be by any means comfortable, but it's not We're not

446
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 4: dropping down to like freezing temperatures that are bringing like

447
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:36,719
Speaker 4: sleet and rain and snow.

448
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 5: You know, we're probably we're probably teetering on freezing.

449
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think it was in the thirties.

450
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 5: Yeah.

451
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that is cold, you know, thirties fahrenheit. Yeah,

452
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 3: close to zero, yeah, Celsius.

453
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: I mean she did have that jacket which we mentioned

454
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: before from Robert, But I don't even think a jacket

455
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: could help you in zero degree temperatures.

456
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 4: No, no, But I feel like, you know, given given

457
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 4: a human beings instinct to just survive, I feel like

458
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 4: she would be doing something to keep her body warm.

459
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 4: You know, she would be doing something physical. She'd be walking,

460
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 4: she'd be moving about. I don't know. I also like

461
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 4: there were so many volunteers looking for her out there.

462
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 4: You know, she'd be calling out if she was if

463
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 4: she had got lost in the world.

464
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

465
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: The next day they brought in dogs to kind of

466
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: track her scent. Tell me about that, because all of

467
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: these separate dogs did find her scent like quite easily.

468
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. This is a really interesting part because they had

469
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 3: different breeds of dogs and they all hit on this

470
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 3: same area on Colin's Gap. And I guess it's some

471
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 3: kind of road that or a small road near the

472
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 3: parking lot. So very interesting to hear that all the

473
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 3: dogs hit on this same area. You know, if this

474
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 3: wasn't a sixteen year old girl who like didn't have

475
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 3: any means to uh run away from her own life,

476
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 3: I think, you know, or or I should say, that

477
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 3: had means to do that. I think they this would

478
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 3: be a different situation because I think it was presumed

479
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 3: that she could have gotten too a car into a

480
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 3: car at that spot willingly or unwilling. You know, we

481
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 3: don't know, but I think that is a pretty good

482
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 3: idea of where she is or where or where she went.

483
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 3: I should say, yeah, I mean, I don't think she's

484
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 3: in that park. I do think she was either placed

485
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: into a vehicle near where those dogs hit, or you know,

486
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 3: got into one willingly. Again, I know we said her

487
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 3: her family was a little strict. I don't think that's

488
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 3: like so strict you have to rebel and run away.

489
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 3: I think again, that sounds kind of wild for a

490
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 3: sixteen year old to do without means, no cell phones,

491
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 3: no planning, no money, Like, I don't know how she

492
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 3: would have been able to do that. So I don't

493
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 3: think that's what happened, But I do think maybe some

494
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 3: time was lost in thinking that that could have happened,

495
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 3: because this was nineteen seventy six and certainly the era

496
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 3: of hitch hiking, and you know, teenagers would go missing

497
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 3: for time, you know, a day or two or so

498
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 3: and then come back without being in touch with their

499
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 3: parents because there were no cell phones. But I just

500
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 3: don't think that was a possibility in Trennie's case.

501
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 4: And I just want to elaborate a little bit on

502
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 4: the Collins Gap area, which is an area that is

503
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 4: designed for like a small parking like a small parking area,

504
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 4: and it is like a base almost, I guess that's

505
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 4: a good way to put It's a base of like

506
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 4: a few different trailheads, so there's an opportunity for several

507
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 4: different groups of hikers to be getting into that area

508
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 4: from different access points.

509
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: But she would have had too late the hightch trail

510
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: that she was on to kind of make her way

511
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: to Colin's Gap.

512
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 4: No, you can, actually there's the trail to Klingman's Dome

513
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 4: is accessible to the trail to Colin's Gap, right, but yes,

514
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,719
Speaker 4: you would you would have to leave that trail to

515
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 4: access the trail to Colin's Gap.

516
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: How would you describe the police investigation or like thereof

517
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: into Trainy's disappearance.

518
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, Unfortunately, it does seem like there was too much

519
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 3: weight put on the idea that she had run away.

520
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 3: I think those dogs didn't necessarily help the angle that

521
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 3: she was in danger. You know, I think it probably

522
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 3: confirmed their biases that she ran away. And you know,

523
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 3: I think again nineteen seventy six, these are police who

524
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 3: have probably dealt with runaways. And that's I think also

525
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 3: even today, it's true, like when the police don't have

526
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 3: an anglecessarily to search, it's kind of like, well, maybe

527
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 3: they ran away, and we'll give it a few days

528
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 3: or give it a little time and see if she

529
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 3: comes back, and if she doesn't, then we'll start, you know,

530
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 3: we'll start a new phase into the investigation. And I

531
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,479
Speaker 3: think that's eventually what happened. But yeah, I think they

532
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 3: lost a lot of time initially because they believe she

533
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 3: ran away.

534
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's just one of these frustrating parts of

535
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 4: every story that Tim and I cover on the show,

536
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 4: because we always hear that, we always hear law enforcement say,

537
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 4: oh I see a hundred of these a week. I

538
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 4: see so many, and I'm sure they do, and I'm

539
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 4: sure those runaways come back home. But you know the

540
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 4: other side of it is like we hear one hundred

541
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 4: of these a week where that's not the case. So

542
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 4: it's not so out of the ordinary, and that attitude

543
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 4: should never be put into like an actionable thing. You

544
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 4: shouldn't say, well, just because the last one did it,

545
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 4: you know, that means that this one has run away

546
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 4: as well. And again, like I know it was the seventies,

547
00:28:55,080 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 4: but still, if you're applying that experience to every single

548
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 4: one of your disappeared children cases, you're just sort of

549
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 4: blanketing everything and you're not doing your job.

550
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: And I'm not a detective, but the little I know

551
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: about Trenny, when you look at the facts of the case,

552
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: you're like, but she, how could she run away? She

553
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: was shy, she was from a strict family, she hadn't

554
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: gone out much, she didn't even know.

555
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 2: She was going there.

556
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, she didn't have her idea on her, she didn't

557
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: have a jacket.

558
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: She didn't just run away. So I think, like my

559
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: Psyche's screaming at me.

560
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,719
Speaker 4: I am same, And I'm wondering why this particular police

561
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 4: department didn't have anybody there who was just curious how

562
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 4: someone could just go off the trail and elude people

563
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 4: finding her. After there's nineteen professional park service individuals who

564
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 4: are searching, plus the teacher, plus now you know police,

565
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 4: like there was nobody there who was like, I just need.

566
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 5: To satisfy my curiosity. They're just now she ran away.

567
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: Eric Strict upbringing, you're listening to true crime Conversations with me,

568
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: Jemma Bath. I'm speaking with Tim Pillary and Lance Rhensterner,

569
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: the co hosts of the Missing podcast. Up next, Tim

570
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: and Lance discuss other theories about who may have taken Treny,

571
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 1: whether Robert, a friend of Trenny's brother, was ever questioned,

572
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: and other potential suspects. I want to go through some

573
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: of the other theories and I'll just touch on this one.

574
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: Could it have been a stranger? Is there anyone that

575
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: we know of that was working in around that area

576
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: that a serial killer anything like that that could have happened.

577
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 3: So actually, interestingly, not necessarily a serial killer, but there

578
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 3: was a family annihilator named William Bradford Bishop who actually

579
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 3: killed his entire family and left his in the parking

580
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 3: lot of the Great Smoky Mountain National park, and this

581
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,959
Speaker 3: was in March March first of nineteen seventy six, so

582
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 3: what's that eight months before or something like that before

583
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 3: Trenny went missing, So probably not still in the park.

584
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 3: And actually he's been speculated to have left the country

585
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 3: successfully and potentially even sightings in different countries of him.

586
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 3: He worked for the government, this fellow, so probably not him,

587
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 3: but that would be the only specific person that I

588
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 3: know of that could have been dangerous in the area

589
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 3: at that time, beyond the potentially classmates and things like that.

590
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 2: Let's come back to Robert.

591
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: He was obviously with Trenny on this hike, so he's

592
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: the obvious place to start and ask questions.

593
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: Was he questioned by police? Was he a suspect at all?

594
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, absolutely a suspect. So unfortunately, his father was

595
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 3: the assistant district attorney in Knoxville at the time, Knoxville, Tennessee,

596
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 3: so he counseled his son Robert not to say anything

597
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 3: to the police. So that is a very suspicious part

598
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 3: of this. And if he had nothing to do with it,

599
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 3: and you know, his dad knew that, maybe he would

600
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: have told him that anyway. But there's just some weird

601
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 3: things about Robert here like this, and the fact that

602
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 3: he had Trenny's comb. He had Trennie Gibson's comb in

603
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 3: his car after she went missing.

604
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: And to be clear, he didn't take his car on

605
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: this field trip, so the comb was found at a

606
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: later date in his car.

607
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 3: Correct. Yeah, and apparently he would use it in his

608
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 3: own hair.

609
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 2: That feels weird.

610
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 3: Very weird.

611
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, he did have He did have a significant head

612
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 4: of hair.

613
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: Do we know if he had a crush on her

614
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 2: or anything like that.

615
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think he did actually, and I don't

616
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,719
Speaker 3: think it was reciprocated at all by Trenny, but it

617
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 3: does seem like he might have had a little bit

618
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 3: of a crush on Trenny. And yeah, it is speculated

619
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 3: that something happened between the two of them, whether he

620
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 3: made a move on her or some or said something

621
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 3: to her that she didn't like or something like that.

622
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 3: But that is speculated to be or it is one

623
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 3: possible reason that she kind of separated from him and

624
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 3: walked away on the trail. But then it's again, you know,

625
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 3: we're kind of back to like, well, if she walked

626
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 3: away from him, then that wouldn't have been him on

627
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 3: the trail calling to her. But I guess we just

628
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 3: don't know. I just don't know the geography of the

629
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 3: trail that well to know if he could have actually

630
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 3: gotten to that spot before she did. My guest tells

631
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 3: me he could have, but I don't know for sure.

632
00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: Another weird thing that he did was he started to

633
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: screen the press and police calls to the family, didn't he.

634
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was answering phone calls inside the Gibson's house.

635
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 4: That's a sorry, that's a detail that I forgot. I

636
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 4: have I have, you know, reminder notes, and I forgot

637
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 4: that detail that he was screening the calls in the house.

638
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 2: Was he invited in by the family.

639
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 3: So no, I guess he was good enough friends with

640
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 3: Bob that it wasn't thought of as weird. But when

641
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 3: I said so he just broke into the house to

642
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 3: our friend Laura, she was like, uh no, not really

643
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 3: kind of knew them, so it wasn't like looked upon

644
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 3: as like a suspicious thing. But here we are fifty

645
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 3: years later and like, that's super suspicious in my opinion.

646
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't even know if this is one of

647
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 4: those things where you can write off like it was

648
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 4: the seventies. If anyone who doesn't live in my house

649
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 4: is in my house without me asking them to be here,

650
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 4: does care what time frame it is. I don't care

651
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 4: if it's the fifties, sixties, seventies or whatever.

652
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 5: Like. That's an odd thing to have happened.

653
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: Particularly given he was the last person with her and

654
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: refused to talk to police, and now he's giving the

655
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: media statements. It's just it's all very strange.

656
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, just sort of screening their calls. I mean, who

657
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 3: knows what he did, who knows what he said? And

658
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 3: who knows who he hung up on or was rude to.

659
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know. I guess I don't think

660
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 3: it was looked upon as like a suspicious thing at

661
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 3: the time. I think it was looked upon as him

662
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 3: being helpful.

663
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: I want to talk about another student, Kelvin, because Robert

664
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 1: kind of pointed to Kelvin as a potential What about him?

665
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: It might have been him? Tell us about Kelvin? What

666
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 1: do we need to know about him?

667
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 4: I always feel really bad about Kelvin because he was

668
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 4: he was one of the very few black kids at

669
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 4: the school. There weren't I can imagine that there wasn't

670
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 4: a lot of tolerance. And I might be just kind

671
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,399
Speaker 4: of painting with a broad brush here, but I feel

672
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 4: like he probably didn't have a lot of leeway when

673
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 4: it came to the suspicions that came up between his

674
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 4: relationship with with Trenny and himself. But we recently had

675
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 4: Laura back on because she had learned new information about

676
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 4: Kelvin and some of the statements that were given. And

677
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 4: this is why we love Laura so much, is that

678
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 4: she had she had she had come on and talked

679
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 4: about how Kelvin was very possessive and showed up drunk

680
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 4: at the Gibson's home and was calling out for Trenny's

681
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 4: brother Bob, and Trenny's mom, Hope had been watching this

682
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 4: all play out, and he was yelling vulgarities at Trenny

683
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 4: through the window, and he was trying to break in

684
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 4: and and and the original story was that he was

685
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 4: going to break in, and he was he was attempting

686
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 4: to abduct Trenny from her bedroom. And that's when Hope,

687
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 4: Trenny's mom, got her handgun and he his foot was

688
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 4: visible in her sight, and he shot and she shot

689
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 4: him in the foot. And according to the original story.

690
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 4: After he was shot, he still was trying to get

691
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 4: at Trenny and drag her out of her room.

692
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 2: And this was about a.

693
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: Year before she went missing, to be clear, this supposed

694
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: incident that happened.

695
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is yeah, And I've like Kelvin always gets

696
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 4: like the raw end of the deal in this story.

697
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 4: This story after we talked to Laura the again and

698
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 4: she kind of clarified some of the details.

699
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 5: This was like sort of a blown up story.

700
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,959
Speaker 4: That that he probably like they did have a relationship,

701
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 4: so they would and yeah, and Trenny probably was inviting

702
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 4: him in and they probably were in some sort of

703
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 4: compromising position. And we don't know where Trenny's family stood

704
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 4: on interracial relationships or if they wanted that with Trenny.

705
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 4: So these other details started to come out, and Laura

706
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 4: presented that to us, and we'll, you know, flat out say, like,

707
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 4: you know, some original statements sometimes aren't always like those

708
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 4: are where the narratives are being developed. Right, So if

709
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 4: the family's saying one thing about this guy coming in

710
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 4: and that's what makes the newspaper, that's what's going to

711
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 4: be put out there forever.

712
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 1: But it feels a lot more logical that Trenny was

713
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: dating Kelvin in secret. He used to come over to

714
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: her house and sneak through the window. Her mum caught him,

715
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: she shot him, doesn't like him, made up this story

716
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: about him breaking in, Like you can see how that

717
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: would all unfold. But because of that original story, suddenly

718
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: Kelvin finds himself as a potential suspect. But what Laura

719
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: found out, or what she told you, is that, I mean,

720
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: he got put in a correctional center because of that incident,

721
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: and it basically didn't go near her again, was like

722
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: I'm out Trenny.

723
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,959
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you can see that playing out, like you said,

724
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 4: and you can see him standing there in the situation

725
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 4: with a shot foot and whatever story's coming out of

726
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 4: Trenny Gibson's mom's mouth to the cops, who's going to

727
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 4: believe who here? You know, the the very the like

728
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 4: the one of a handful of black students in this

729
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 4: like Deep South High School or the MoMA of this

730
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,919
Speaker 4: you know, innocent white girl. Yeah, it's clear what's about

731
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 4: to happen here.

732
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: So is there any evidence to be clear that Kelvin

733
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: could have been involved in her disappearance?

734
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 3: No? There were rumors that he was driving his car

735
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 3: following the bus that day, because so after he got

736
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 3: out of juvenile detention, he did vow to get revenge

737
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 3: on the Gibsons. And again that was only a year,

738
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 3: So if you look at the timeline of that, that

739
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 3: was a year before Trny goes missing, and then he

740
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 3: was in juvenile detention for six months, so he was apparently, like,

741
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 3: you know, only possibly gonna get revenge on Treny or

742
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 3: the family for those six months, like that was his

743
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 3: window to do so before she went missing. I don't

744
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 3: know that that ever happened. But Bob Simpson, Robert Simpson there,

745
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 3: he has sort of pointed at Kelvin, and I think

746
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 3: I think a lot of these rumors stem from him

747
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 3: because he had sort of pointed at Kelvin saying that, well,

748
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 3: if he was there, that he would have killed her.

749
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 3: Kelvin would have killed her. So I think Bob Simpson,

750
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 3: Robert Simpson was responsible for sort of you know, and

751
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 3: obviously what happened between Kelvin and the and the Gibsons

752
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 3: certainly notable in this story regardless, but I think made

753
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 3: it easier for him to sort of be scapegoaded as

754
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 3: someone who did something here in this case.

755
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, And I just want to add on to

756
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 4: that that some people were saying that there was a

757
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 4: car following the bus. Kelvin didn't own a car. And

758
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 4: also the principal of the school attested that Kelvin was

759
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 4: actually in class that day.

760
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 2: Okay, so that kind of rules him out.

761
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's got an alibi by the principle himself.

762
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: After the break, we hear about students who may have

763
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 1: known what happened to Treny, some of whom were found

764
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: wearing her jewelry. Let's move on to the jewelry, because

765
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 1: this is another part that I can't stop thinking about.

766
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: A student was found wearing Trenny's jewelry. Tell me about that.

767
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is probably the most disturbing part of this.

768
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 3: So Trenny had a sapphire necklace and a diamond star

769
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 3: sapphire ring that were with Trenny. I presumably when she

770
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 3: went missing. These were important heirlooms or jewelry for her

771
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 3: that I believe her mom gave her. And so there

772
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 3: was another student who was seen wearing it later and

773
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:35,280
Speaker 3: pretty spooky and suspicious. I would say, what was her excuse,

774
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 3: What was the excuse? So again this account comes from

775
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 3: Robert Simpson. He claimed that at the field trip, Trenny

776
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 3: was in a washroom and gave the jewelry to one

777
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 3: of the students to hold. Unclear why that would have

778
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 3: been the case, But later it was a different student

779
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 3: who was wearing Trainese jewelry or in possession of her jewelry.

780
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 3: So once again the story from Robert Simpson here seems

781
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 3: to be the problem.

782
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: I think even that data out, I can see why

783
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: you might take a ring off and ask someone to

784
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: hold it. Why would you take a nicklace off while

785
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: washing up at a basin before going on a hike.

786
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 2: It just feels weird.

787
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 4: It starts to have this feeling like there are many

788
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 4: other people that know what happened. And so when you're

789
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 4: thinking about this and trying to figure out how nineteen

790
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 4: plus searchers, including law enforcement or not including law enforcement,

791
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 4: and mister Dunlap and that other student who went up

792
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 4: the trail, how no one found any trace of her

793
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 4: within a couple of hours, within a couple of hours,

794
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 4: within within a few minutes of everybody getting back to

795
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 4: the bus doing the roll call, Trenny's not here, and

796
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 4: then they start they start a search within like you know,

797
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 4: a half hour or so, and then that search is

798
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 4: pretty extensive. At the three hour mark, you start to wonder, like, wait,

799
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 4: did maybe more than one person see what happened to

800
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 4: Trenny or know what happened to Trenny? Now that her

801
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 4: jewelry is popping up in other people's possessions and there's

802
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 4: no evidence that or there's no sign of her anywhere.

803
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 1: Isn't it true that there were a number of students

804
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: that were quite cagey as well? Like we know that

805
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: Robert tells his best story and then shuts his mouth,

806
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: doesn't want to talk, but there were a number of

807
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: students who didn't want to talk.

808
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, Laura has actually communicated with a decent amount of

809
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 3: Trenny's classmates from Beard and High, and she is convinced

810
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 3: that a small group of people know what happened to her.

811
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 3: I can't really speak to that myself, because if Trenny

812
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 3: got into a car, you know, I'm not sure, I'm

813
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 3: not sure, like what trail would have been left as

814
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 3: far as like who was aware of what? You know,

815
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 3: if she willingly got into a car, then you know,

816
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 3: we don't know whose car, Like we we'd probably never

817
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 3: know whose car that would be, and it probably wouldn't

818
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 3: have been connected with the field trip. Just seems a

819
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 3: little rare that or you know, random and probably rare

820
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 3: that she would have gotten into a car of someone

821
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 3: she didn't know at that point, So I like, I

822
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 3: don't know why that would have happened. So but also

823
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 3: on the if someone like carried her to that spot

824
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,319
Speaker 3: where the dog lost the trail and then placed her

825
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 3: into a car like then that means someone else was

826
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 3: working there and you know, with that person and had

827
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 3: a vehicle. So it's it's really perplexing when we get

828
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 3: to this point.

829
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 1: I want to be clear that no one has been

830
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: charged in this case. Is there, however, a more accepted

831
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 1: theory about what happened to her? We've talked about a

832
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: number of them. What is the most accepted theory?

833
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 3: I think, as time goes by, and now that Robert

834
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 3: Simpson has passed away, I believe you passed away in

835
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two. I think as time goes by, the

836
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 3: idea that he did something is more commonly believed than

837
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 3: any other theory. Could be me projecting that, but seems

838
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 3: like there's a lot of smoke in his direction.

839
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: In the fifty years since Treny has been missing, has

840
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: any kind of formal investigation restarted? Obviously we know Laura

841
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: has been looking into it, her associate. You guys like that.

842
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: There's a lot kind of popping up now. But in

843
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: terms of a police investigation, a formal investigation, a reward

844
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: for information, has anything happened in the last fifty years, I.

845
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 5: Think we would know.

846
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 6: Yeah.

847
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 5: I think I don't believe that there have been.

848
00:46:55,200 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 4: Any fresh eyes specifically put on treny disappearance directly from

849
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 4: law enforcement.

850
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: It does feel like for many decades there before, kind

851
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 1: of maybe the early two thousands, the story was quite forgotten.

852
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 2: It kind of got left in history.

853
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's true. Yeah. And there was a

854
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 3: book written about Trainey's disappearance as well as the disappearance

855
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 3: of Dennis Martin and Polly Melton. I think it's called

856
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 3: Mysterious Disappearances in the Great Smoky Mountains. Really really good book,

857
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 3: very informative. And so there's a couple other like notable

858
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 3: disappearances from that park, but they don't seem to have

859
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,359
Speaker 3: anything to do with each other. And I think That's

860
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 3: part of a problem too in the States here is

861
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,959
Speaker 3: that the National Park Service is like the head of

862
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 3: the you know, it's under their jurisdiction for at least

863
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 3: a period of time until they can I guess transfer

864
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 3: it or something like that. So I think that is

865
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 3: part of the problem here. And Trenny was also sixteen,

866
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 3: so the FBI is involved to some degree. And then

867
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 3: there's also the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation that's involved in

868
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 3: the case, and I think those of that that's the

869
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 3: agency that's officially seeking tips at this point. But with

870
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 3: that said, like I don't think any of these agencies

871
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 3: are doing anything actively.

872
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: Do we know what became of the Gibson family in

873
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: the wake of this tragedy.

874
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, according to Laura, it pretty much like broke them.

875
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 4: They hadn't found out anything of significance in Treny's disappearance.

876
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 4: Believe Treny's father pass I think they both passed. But

877
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 4: I can't say anything as far as like the relationship

878
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 4: between her sister and her brothers if they're like fractured,

879
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 4: but I mean something like this pretty much like fractured

880
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 4: the family.

881
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 1: Do you two think that this case will ever be

882
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 1: sold that we have a chance of finding Treny, of

883
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 1: putting her to rest and this story to rest.

884
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's a chance of finding some remains.

885
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 4: I think it's super super slim. And then once you

886
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 4: find the remains and they're proven to be Trene's, I

887
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,240
Speaker 4: don't think anybody will come forward to say how that happened.

888
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 4: I think it's just far too long at this point.

889
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 4: There might be depending on where they're found. Let's say

890
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 4: they're found on a certain property, and that might raise

891
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 4: more suspicion about a property's owner and why they're there.

892
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 4: But I feel like all of the parties involved who

893
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 4: had knowledge in it are either gone or permanently like

894
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 4: not talking, because why would you do something now while

895
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 4: you've gotten away with.

896
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 5: It for fifty years. So that's just my personal negativity.

897
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's pretty unlikely that the case ever

898
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 3: is solved, or even that Trenny is found. I think

899
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 3: I would be pretty surprised to hear that she was

900
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 3: found in the park at this point, just based on

901
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 3: dogs and multiple searches over the years. I mean, and

902
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 3: it's fifty years and that was like a populated area.

903
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,399
Speaker 3: There's a bunch of visitors that hit that park every year.

904
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 3: You would just imagine someone stumbling over a body or

905
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 3: bones at some point. But so I don't know, And

906
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 3: if she were to have left the park willingly or unwillingly,

907
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,320
Speaker 3: I don't think there's any there's any way unless unless

908
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 3: there is, you know, she was buried somewhere and there

909
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 3: is some weather or some something that digs her up

910
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 3: in a way.

911
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: With no potential possible resolution here. Why do you think

912
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 1: it's important that we say Trenny's name, that we continue

913
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:51,760
Speaker 1: to talk about her and tell her story.

914
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 4: I think one of the things is two things actually

915
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 4: on this is I think that Treny and this is

916
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 4: based off of Laura doubling back on some details of

917
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 4: her story when she first came on. She came back

918
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 4: on to say, after doing more research, I discovered this

919
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 4: about Trenny which kind of changed a little bit of

920
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 4: the narrative, and it changed a little bit about some

921
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 4: of the behaviors that could be a contributing factor to

922
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 4: who and why she was with who she was with

923
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 4: during that time period, and that could lead to somebody

924
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 4: slipping up and keeping her name out there and keeping

925
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 4: the story out there and keeping that you know, constant

926
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 4: narrative going I think is really good for other stories,

927
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 4: like the stories that we talk about and to be

928
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 4: open minded about, like, hey, just because someone said one

929
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 4: thing in a newspaper article and now we're reporting on

930
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 4: that from fifty years later, there might be more details here.

931
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 4: And if you're able to have an open mind and

932
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 4: then go back on your original reporting and say, oh,

933
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,839
Speaker 4: since then, I've learned this, this, and this, I feel

934
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 4: like that helps a lot of other cases to have

935
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 4: stories that can have some sort of like development and

936
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:15,919
Speaker 4: resolution later.

937
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 3: I mean, she was an innocent sixteen year old girl

938
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 3: like this is this is exactly the kind of person

939
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 3: that we should be remembering. Like, I don't think she

940
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:30,760
Speaker 3: went missing intentionally. I don't think she did anything wrong here.

941
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,879
Speaker 3: I think it's a tragic story, and I do think

942
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 3: she was likely murdered. You know, I think it's important

943
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 3: to keep people's names, victims, survivors, people's names, missing people's

944
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 3: names out there, because if we don't, who will.

945
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 1: Thank you to Tim and Lance for helping us to

946
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: tell this story. You can listen to their episode of

947
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: The Missing podcast where the interview True Crime Conversations Murphy

948
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 1: about the case of missing Adelaide girl Rihanna Burrow.

949
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 2: Here's a little taste.

950
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 6: She purchased her Christmas card, and then she was also

951
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 6: seen walking home from that shopping center. And then we

952
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 6: know she got to her house because when her mum

953
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 6: came home, the Christmas card was on the table, and

954
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 6: so we know her movements on that day, But then

955
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 6: what happened after that, It's truly a mystery.

956
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 2: There's a link to that in the show notes.

957
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: If you have any information about the case we discussed today,

958
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 1: please contact the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. If you want

959
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 1: to see clips from this story, head to our Instagram

960
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: page at True Crime Conversations, and for our explainer videos

961
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 1: head to our TikTok of the same name. True Crime

962
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: Conversations is hosted by me Jemma Bath. Our senior producer

963
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: is Charlie Blackman. The group executive producer is a Laria Brophy,

964
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: and there's been audio designed by Jacob Brown. Thanks so

965
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 1: much for listening. I'll be back next week with another

966
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: True Crime Conversation.

967
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 6: True Crime Conversations acknowledges the traditional owners of land and

968
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 6: waters that this podcast was recorded on