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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MEA's twice daily news podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Quickie. It's Halloween and kids everywhere are gearing up

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Speaker 1: to get dressed up in their favorite pop culture or

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Speaker 1: creepy characters to walk the streets in search of treats.

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Speaker 1: But while the real meaning of the day has been

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Speaker 1: moved like so many others, into a corporate space, Halloween

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Speaker 1: has meaning steeped in ancient faith, and in twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: some of those ways of thinking are back at the

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Speaker 1: forefront of human spirituality. Today we find out why it

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Speaker 1: seems more and more of us so getting a little

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Speaker 1: more what we often refer to as woo woo, in

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Speaker 1: search of something to order our worlds and give us

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Speaker 1: the strength to continue moving forward. But before we step

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Speaker 1: into the world of the witch, here's the latest from

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Speaker 1: the Quickie newsroom, Thursday, October thirty one. The principal of

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Speaker 1: the school which was involved in a car accident earlier

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Speaker 1: this week has described the incident as a complete tragedy.

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Speaker 1: A driver who just picked up a child from Auburn

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Speaker 1: South Primary School in Melbourne's East was doing a U

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Speaker 1: turn allegedly suffering a medical episode. Her car crashed through

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Speaker 1: a fence and hit a table where five students were

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Speaker 1: sitting having a break to eleven year old girls, a

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Speaker 1: ten year old girl and ten year old boy were

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Speaker 1: taken to hospital with injuries. Eleven year old Jack Davy

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Speaker 1: was killed. Victorian premieres Into Allen posted on social media,

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Speaker 1: though what should have been an unremarkable Tuesday has instead

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Speaker 1: cast a dark shadow over the city and State Principal

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Speaker 1: Marcus Witcher has called for media to respect the school

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Speaker 1: and families privacy and allow them to navigate this difficult period. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: the club's Jack Belonged to have paid tribute to the

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Speaker 1: keen sportsman who played basketball, soccer and futsal his basketball team,

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Speaker 1: starting a GoFundMe to support his family, which has raised

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Speaker 1: nearly thirty thousand dollars. The Taliban, who've been introducing increasingly

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Speaker 1: more restrictive rules on women, have now made it illegal

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Speaker 1: for women to hear each other voices. The Minister for

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Speaker 1: the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice announced that

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Speaker 1: when adult women pray and another woman passes her, she

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Speaker 1: must not pray loud enough for her to be heard.

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Speaker 1: In Afghanistan, a women's voice and face must not be

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Speaker 1: heard or seen in public. They also cannot sing or

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Speaker 1: make music. Human rights active as are concerned that this

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Speaker 1: will have broader impacts and may stop women from even

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Speaker 1: conversing with each other. The Spanish government has declared three

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Speaker 1: days of morning after dozens of people were killed in

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Speaker 1: a flash flooding event to rental rains on Tuesday in

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Speaker 1: parts of southeastern Spain left roads and towns inundated with floodwater.

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Speaker 1: Emergency services and government officials declaring that at least seventy

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Speaker 1: two people have died, with many more still missing. As

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Speaker 1: the floodwater tears through the region. Authorities in some of

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Speaker 1: the worst hit areas are telling residents to stay inside

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Speaker 1: their homes and avoid all non essential travel as the

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Speaker 1: floodwaters continue to rise, advising that the number of deaths

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Speaker 1: are also expected to increase. Kylie Minogue has admitted she

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Speaker 1: thought the song that launched her music career was very uncool.

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Speaker 1: Minogue shot up the Chants in nineteen eighty eight with

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Speaker 1: her cover of the nineteen sixty two song The Locomotion.

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Speaker 1: Kylie's saying she's so thankful for the song and what

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Speaker 1: it's meant for her career, but admitted at times she's

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Speaker 1: found it a little cheesy, saying she didn't know how

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Speaker 1: to perform it anymore, but now says it's come full

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Speaker 1: circle and she can now with all her heart and

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Speaker 1: enthusiasms sing the song again. The pop star has also

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Speaker 1: denied she has any diva tendencies, saying she's a pretty

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Speaker 1: good boss, but does expect her staff to put in

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent when they're on the job. She explained,

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Speaker 1: they know when something's not right when she raises that eyebrow.

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Speaker 1: That's what's happening in the world today. Next witches are

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Speaker 1: making a comeback. They're out of the cauldron and into

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Speaker 1: the mainstream as women everywhere reclaim their power. Happy Halloween,

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Speaker 1: the day which has roots in pagan religions the eve

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Speaker 1: of all Saints day with a veil between the world

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Speaker 1: of the living and the dead, is reportedly at its thinnest,

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Speaker 1: but while many mark this day in a very non

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Speaker 1: religious way by going door to or in costume, asking

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Speaker 1: for treats and threatening tricks. A well known character for

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Speaker 1: this time of year has been making a comeback in

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Speaker 1: real life. We're talking about witches.

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Speaker 3: Well, myler for pretty, I can car accidents too.

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Speaker 1: Many centuries ago, the pagan religions flourished, but as Christianity

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Speaker 1: took hold around the globe, the punishment of witches was

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Speaker 1: a way to not only control women, but to stamp

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Speaker 1: out pagan practices. So being called a witch for centuries

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Speaker 1: represented a haggard, possibly green faced, nulled, angry woman as

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Speaker 1: ugly as they come, with a big crooked nose, sometimes

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Speaker 1: even topped with a hairy wart, someone who ate little

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Speaker 1: children and cursed good people. But the witch has started

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Speaker 1: to break free from that. In stage and now movie

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Speaker 1: productions like Wicked, we follow the journey of Glinda and Elpheba,

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Speaker 1: who go on to become the Wicked Witch of the

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Speaker 1: West and Glinda the Good Witch. Right now, the 's

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Speaker 1: seven of Marvel's latest queer lead witch theme show, Agatha

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Speaker 1: All Along, has spin off of Wonder Vision, has a

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Speaker 1: score of nine point two on IMDb. Now there's only

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Speaker 1: one show with a higher score than that in the

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Speaker 1: entire Marvel universe, and that is the season two finale

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Speaker 1: of Loki Fuck Thyhead. It was revealed recently that Andrew Garfield,

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Speaker 1: who's been making headlines around the world this past week

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Speaker 1: after Chicken Shop Dates host Amelia de Moldenburg finally dropped

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Speaker 1: her interview with the actor after they had those two

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Speaker 1: meet cute moments on the red carpet.

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Speaker 3: I only ever want to see you what.

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Speaker 1: He was previously dating doctor Kate Thomas, a professional witch

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Speaker 1: who people accused of using magic to seduce the actor.

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Speaker 2: So this particular spell is a protection spell where we

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Speaker 2: have two mirrors facing out.

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Speaker 1: The mirrors are facing out and we've got our name

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Speaker 1: on the.

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Speaker 3: Inside of it.

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Speaker 1: So it's a really powerful protective spell. And on social

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Speaker 1: media there are many out and proud witches sharing their

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Speaker 1: spells and practices.

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Speaker 3: And here from coveniv Gia and I'm going to talk

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Speaker 3: through a protection from someone's spell.

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Speaker 2: This is one of my favorite witch tips to you

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Speaker 2: take some clean eggshops and go ahead and crush them out.

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Speaker 2: Here is a really easy way to begin your witchcraft journey.

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Speaker 3: And all you need is remote pad and pen.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm a witch, and here are my top warning signs

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Speaker 1: when it comes to people around you. These are no

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Speaker 1: ugly old ladies in pointy black hats. Well somewhere the hat.

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Speaker 1: But now witches are portrayed in a much more favorable

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Speaker 1: light as women take control of the narrative. One of

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Speaker 1: these modern day witches is Kat How, entrepreneur and author

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Speaker 1: of two books on alchemy. Kat what drew you to

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Speaker 1: the life of a witch?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So in twenty twenty, I encountered pretty big depression

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Speaker 4: mental health issues, and I walked away from my company.

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Speaker 4: It spent about seven years building, and I was really

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Speaker 4: sort of last. I was disassociated. I was completely disconnected

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Speaker 4: from well being. I was meditating, I was doing reiki,

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Speaker 4: I was trying all the modalities therapy, and just nothing

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Speaker 4: was working. And that's when I came across the Kai Balon,

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Speaker 4: which is an ancient Sumerian texts or emetic text, and

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Speaker 4: I started to explore the world of alchemy in more depth,

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Speaker 4: and I realized that there was just so much wisdom,

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Speaker 4: and this premise that we create our reality through our

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Speaker 4: intentions and our emotions and our thoughts and our perspectives

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Speaker 4: was really prevalent in this narrative of witchcraft and alchemy. Actually,

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Speaker 4: So that's how I came across it. That's how I

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Speaker 4: sort of started to work with it. And I would

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Speaker 4: say I was in a really bad emotional state and

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Speaker 4: within sort of two months is starting to do ritual

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Speaker 4: work and practicing alchemy. I completely just shifted through that depression.

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Speaker 3: So it was very life changing for me.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain to us what practicing alchemy means?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it means different things to different people.

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Speaker 4: Some people might think it's like spirits or demons, or

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Speaker 4: the devil or Satan worshiping. I think that's a big

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Speaker 4: misconception out there. Really, alchemy is just the practice of

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Speaker 4: intentionally shifting your emotional states and working with your intentions

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Speaker 4: and guiding those towards what you wish to or desire

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Speaker 4: to create for yourself. In its plainest explanation, I think

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Speaker 4: that's how I would define it.

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Speaker 1: In doing research for this, I've come across quite a

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Speaker 1: few people who claim to be witches or who are

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Speaker 1: interested in witchcraft, who also delve into spill making and manifestation.

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Speaker 1: Is that something that all witches practice in creating spills,

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Speaker 1: whether it be for protection or for good fortune? Is

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Speaker 1: that something that most witches practice?

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Speaker 4: So I think manifestation is a really sort of modern

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Speaker 4: term alchemy and witchcraft is what's been around for thousands

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Speaker 4: of years, and the term manifestation is pretty recent. Manifestation

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Speaker 4: is basically just an offshoot. It is a type of alchemy,

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Speaker 4: and there's different ways to do it. A lot of

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Speaker 4: people do ritual work, and I don't believe necessarily personally,

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Speaker 4: that there's a set way to do a ritual. In

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Speaker 4: other words, you have to have this specific crystal or

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Speaker 4: this specific recipe. I think it works mostly because when

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Speaker 4: you're doing rituals, you're creating a tactile experience, which puts

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Speaker 4: you in a state of flow. So they've scientifically shown

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Speaker 4: that when you're doing a ritual, you're entering states of flow,

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Speaker 4: which enhances well being, which is the energy that amplifies intentions.

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Speaker 1: Kat, how do people respond to you when you mentioned

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Speaker 1: that you're a witchel, that you are interested in alchemy

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Speaker 1: and witchcraft.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So when I pretty much was the closet, which

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Speaker 4: from twenty twenty, I mean I had been doing rituals

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Speaker 4: or you know, sex magic before in my business, but

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Speaker 4: I didn't really realize that was a form of alchemy.

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Speaker 4: And then when I started to practice it actively in

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Speaker 4: my life, I was sort of a closet which I

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Speaker 4: was really well known in the entrepreneurial space, and I

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Speaker 4: was afraid that I was going to get judged or

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Speaker 4: ostracized for it. It came to a point where I

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Speaker 4: just I felt so unauthentic not talking about it, and

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Speaker 4: that was manifesting itself as really bad emotional states. So

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Speaker 4: I was like, Okay, I'm just going to come out

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Speaker 4: and talk about this. And the response was just phenomenal.

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Speaker 4: I was, you know, receiving messages like on the daily

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Speaker 4: from these very high performing entrepreneurs, past clients, people telling me, oh,

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Speaker 4: we do rituals, or I do spells, or I do

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Speaker 4: these things as well, but I'm too ashamed to admit

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Speaker 4: to it.

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Speaker 3: So it was very positive overall.

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Speaker 1: Actually, do you think the community of witches is growing

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Speaker 1: at the moment? We are seeing more and more of

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Speaker 1: it returning to pop culture. I mean, there was a

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Speaker 1: huge amount of witch content around in the nineties and

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Speaker 1: early two thousands, but that kind of dropped away again,

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Speaker 1: but we're seeing a resurgence in it now. Do you

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Speaker 1: find that the which communities growing alongside that, or just

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Speaker 1: maybe feel a bit more confident that they can come

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Speaker 1: out and speak about it like you did.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think for sure that's definitely the case. I

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Speaker 4: think the ostracization that used to happen and the persecution

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Speaker 4: is no longer in place in a lot of areas

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Speaker 4: of the world. Obviously, it's still happening in some areas

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Speaker 4: of the world, and so people are more comfortable talking

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Speaker 4: about it, and the more people that are creating content

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Speaker 4: about it is giving more permission for others to also

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Speaker 4: claim it.

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Speaker 1: Well, it does seem like witches are making a comeback.

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Speaker 1: The fact is they never truly left. We've been celebrating

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Speaker 1: them in pop culture for many years, like the nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty seven classic The Witches of Eastwick, which centered on

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Speaker 1: three friends played by Shirt, Michelle Piffer and Susan Sarandon,

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Speaker 1: whose wishes are granted at a cost finding out they

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Speaker 1: are in fact witches. Nineteen ninety three's hocus Pocus had

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Speaker 1: Bette Midliss There, Jessica Parker and kathyen Na Jimmy terrorizing

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Speaker 1: children in a small town. We Go Buy Toose Open

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Speaker 1: nine Eyes two sniping Gus Tall. The sky life is

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Speaker 1: not shy ah by feet so say it By. In

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, it was the angsty teen horror flick

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Speaker 1: The Craft that saw young girls practicing out of witchcraft

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Speaker 1: for their own benefit. The cast and crew later explained

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Speaker 1: that they had a real witch to consult on set,

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Speaker 1: who warned them about performing that iconic scene on the beach.

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Speaker 5: Well, while we were doing the invocation on the beach,

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Speaker 5: it was strange because when we would get into the invocation,

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Speaker 5: the surf came up higher and then it would go down.

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Speaker 4: And she'd heard that that beach didn't like pagan ceremonies

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Speaker 4: because she'd heard from witch.

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Speaker 1: Associates that it was bad place for pagan rituals. And

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Speaker 1: she got out. In the same year as The Craft,

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Speaker 1: we also got Sabrina the teenage Witch, making her first

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Speaker 1: appearance in nineteen ninety eight. Nicole Kidman and Sandra Bullock

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Speaker 1: brought us a sister witch is in practical magic, struggling

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Speaker 1: to use their powers when a toxic man gets involved.

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Speaker 3: I always throw spot saltaian lapshot.

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Speaker 1: Keep thoseonaring by your garden gate, plant lavender for luck,

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Speaker 1: the fall in love whenever you can, and of course

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Speaker 1: we can't forget iconic Hermione Granger from the Harry Potter series.

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Speaker 1: The witches of Waverley Place and many others. Academics have

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Speaker 1: discussed witches in the modern context as a representation of

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Speaker 1: the repression that society faces under the patriarchy. The witch

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Speaker 1: is a symbol of a woman who dares to live

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Speaker 1: outside that structure. While we see witches in pop culture

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Speaker 1: and embrace them in our social media feeds, as Cap

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Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, there are still countries around the world who

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Speaker 1: persecute witches. At twenty twenty one UN resolution specifically address

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Speaker 1: the violence towards those who are accused of witchcraft, the

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Speaker 1: numbers showing that at least twenty thousand witches were killed

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Speaker 1: across six countries from Sub Saharan Africa to India, Nepal,

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Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia and Papua New Guinea between twenty and nine

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Speaker 1: and twenty nineteen. Witchcraft, though, is just one way in

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Speaker 1: which people around the world are reclaiming the spiritual thinking

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Speaker 1: of the past. Alex Nicholson is Mummy's Weekend editor. She

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Speaker 1: wrote about why everyone is a bit woo woo right now.

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Speaker 1: You can find a link to the story in our

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Speaker 1: show notes. Alex, would you consider yourself someone who is

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Speaker 1: spiritually alternative?

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Speaker 2: I am definitely into spirituality. I like to say that

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Speaker 2: I'm woo woo light. I do have a few sets

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Speaker 2: of oracle.

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Speaker 3: Cars at home.

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Speaker 2: I am definitely into a psychic reading here and there.

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Speaker 3: That's what I did for my fortieth birthday.

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Speaker 2: I went and had a little reading to see what's

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Speaker 2: coming for the year and the decade ahead. I like

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Speaker 2: to journal, I like to meditate, which I guess things

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Speaker 2: like that have become more science backed anyway, It's more

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Speaker 2: of a science backed wellness practice, but they still I think,

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Speaker 2: exist within that spirituality space. I'm into it, but I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't say that I planned my entire life by it.

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Speaker 1: Do we, though, think that more people are turning to

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Speaker 1: that kind of spirituality? And why do you think that's

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Speaker 1: happening at this point in time?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely, I think spirituality is definitely booming.

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Speaker 3: I think there are a few reasons behind that.

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Speaker 2: So firstly, spirituality, as opposed to religion, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: more freedom in it. You're not having to follow a

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Speaker 2: set of dogmatic rules. There's no sense of if you

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Speaker 2: do this, you're going to hell, or you know, something

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Speaker 2: terrible will happen to you if you don't show up

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Speaker 2: and pray on a set day every week or anything

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Speaker 2: like that. So I think there's a bit of freedom

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Speaker 2: within spirituality that you don't get with religion. I think also,

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Speaker 2: you know, the world we live in is pretty chaotic,

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Speaker 2: and I think that spirituality gives a lot of people

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Speaker 2: a sense of control in that increasingly chaotic and, let's

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Speaker 2: face it, kind of grim world.

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Speaker 1: I'm interested to know from your perspective, what impact do

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Speaker 1: you think the pandemic had on us? So, for example,

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Speaker 1: I've spoken to a witch who said that her journey

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Speaker 1: into becoming a witch really began because of the depression

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Speaker 1: that kind of came about during the pandemic, And a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who work in that space said that

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Speaker 1: things like their tarot readings got booked solid during this

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Speaker 1: time too. So do you think the pandemics really impacted

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Speaker 1: our reach towards this form of spirituality?

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Speaker 3: Yes, definitely.

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Speaker 2: For me personally, I feel like my kind of foray

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Speaker 2: into more spiritual practices came as a result of the pandemic.

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Speaker 2: A good friend of mine, Holly as a Party, who

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Speaker 2: is a psychic medium and an astrologer. She noticed that

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Speaker 2: her bookings were increasing exponentially during COVID. She also had

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Speaker 2: offered a course called Manifestation and Magic, and she saw

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Speaker 2: the intake in that double when she was offering it

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Speaker 2: online during the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: What influence do you think celebrities have on us in

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Speaker 1: making our decisions in how we start to explore things

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Speaker 1: like this, because, for example, Katie Perry just recently started

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Speaker 1: talking about her angel numbers. First of all, if you

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Speaker 1: know what they are, we'd love an explanation. And a

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Speaker 1: lot of other celebrities have embraced this kind of lifestyle

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Speaker 1: and they're of course posting about it on social media.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that celebrities are guided us? I think

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Speaker 1: in starting the journey when we're looking at alternatives to

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Speaker 1: traditional religions, I.

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Speaker 2: Think celebrities are guiding us in all the trends and

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Speaker 2: all of the I mean, I'm not saying that spirituality

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Speaker 2: is necessarily a trend, but celebrities are at the forefront

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Speaker 2: of sharing ideas with the world. I mean, they have

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Speaker 2: these huge platforms. They're very visible, so if they start

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Speaker 2: talking about something, whether it's spirituality or the later shoe

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Speaker 2: for summer, we pay attention. So angel numbers are huge

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Speaker 2: at the moment with celebs. Obviously we've got Katie Perry

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Speaker 2: and her one four three album. Kylie Jenner wears a

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Speaker 2: necklace that says two two two, and that is in

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Speaker 2: reference to when her son Air was born, because his

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Speaker 2: birthday is the second of the second twenty two. And

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Speaker 2: angel number is basically a pattern of repeated numbers. So

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Speaker 2: you might look at the time and notice that it's

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Speaker 2: three point thirty three, or.

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Speaker 3: You might see a number plate that has four to

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Speaker 3: three four three.

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Speaker 2: The concept of the angel number is that these are

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Speaker 2: signs from the universe, or from your guardian angels, or

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Speaker 2: from the that you're on the right track. That sort

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Speaker 2: of thing does have an impact, and you know, Katy

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Speaker 2: Perry is not the first. There are plenty of other

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Speaker 2: celebrities who've spoken about things like manifestation using positive affirmations.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of spiritual rhetoric tied up in the

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Speaker 2: language that people are using these days, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of the language that celebrities use when they talk about

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Speaker 2: achieving what they've achieved.

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Speaker 1: Can we break this down as a generational thing, Alex

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Speaker 1: because sort of back when I was younger, when it

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Speaker 1: came to spiritual practices, like my generation wore ride into

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Speaker 1: witches back in the day and being Wickan and many

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Speaker 1: of us ended up being either an atheist or agnostic

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Speaker 1: at best. What generation is embracing this new alternative spiritual practice?

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Speaker 3: Look, I was exactly the same.

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Speaker 2: I was very into Wicker and Witchcraft.

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Speaker 3: And I had all these books when I was younger,

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Speaker 3: and it sort.

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Speaker 2: Of fell off the radar as they got older, which

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Speaker 2: is exactly what you're saying. I'm definitely seen in my

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Speaker 2: own friendship circles that they're millennials who are returning to

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Speaker 2: these ideas of spirituality.

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Speaker 3: And loving it.

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Speaker 2: But the research shows that gen Z are really leading

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Speaker 2: the charge. Thirty eight percent of gen Z Australians identify

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Speaker 2: as spiritual and fifty percent say they believe in karma,

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Speaker 2: which is really interesting. Gen Z are more open to

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Speaker 2: and interested in different ideas, different ways of thinking, and

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Speaker 2: it's something that I spoke to Ellen Hooper about.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 2: Ellen Hooper is a career coach and she also co

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Speaker 2: hosts a podcast called I'll Ask My Sister where they

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Speaker 2: take an approach of cosmic meets corporate, so.

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Speaker 3: She's really at the center.

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Speaker 2: Of where the two meet, and she explained that gen

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Speaker 2: Z are just less self conscious about being interested in

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Speaker 2: different ideas, and I guess that speaks to them being

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Speaker 2: quite open and accepting. And I think it really just

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Speaker 2: comes down to the fact that gen Z have been

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Speaker 2: exposed to far more ideas of openness and acceptance in general,

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Speaker 2: so they're really willing to be open minded and accepting

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Speaker 2: about different thoughts and different ideas within a spiritual space

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: If you do want to get started exploring witchcraft for yourself,

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Speaker 1: Kat has a tip to send you down the witches road.

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Speaker 4: Well. Obviously for me, the one that I was talking

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Speaker 4: about was the Kaibalan. That one was really powerful because

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Speaker 4: it talks about dualistic forces of reality, which I think

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Speaker 4: is a prevalent force of what we're working with, and

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Speaker 4: if you're doing witchcraft or spell work or any kind

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Speaker 4: of alchemy, it's important to understand this. I've also written

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Speaker 4: a book about it called Magic Source Codes, which talks

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Speaker 4: about the basics of alchemy and some of the ritual

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Speaker 4: work that I do myself.

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Speaker 1: Happy Halloween friends, thanks for taking the time to feed

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Speaker 1: your mind with us today. The quickie is produced by

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Speaker 1: me Claire Murphy and our executive producer Taylor Strano, with

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Speaker 1: audio production by tiegen Sadler