WEBVTT - How To Be Liked By Absolutely Everyone 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:06.080 Hello, and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. It's what 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:09.640 women are actually talking about on Monday, the eleventh of May. 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:13.920 I'm Holly Waynwright, I'm Klass Stevens. I'm Amelia Last And 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:17.760 here's what's made our agenda for today. What happened in 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:21.520 Australia on the weekend that has made every sitting politician 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:23.800 have a little bit of a nervous. 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:27.160 Week Plus some people are liked by everyone they meet. 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:28.800 This is what they all do. 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:33.800 And are you a time optimist? Holly and Claire Art 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:36.600 and I want to find out how their brain works. 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.440 But first look, I don't know about you too, but 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:44.360 my algorithm was hijacked on the weekend by men dancing 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:45.280 in short shorts. 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.279 You're the one who introduced me to this. You're the 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:52.320 one who triggered my algorithm with your story of Harry 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:53.600 Styles in these little shorts. 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.000 Oh my goodness, which was good because look, the global 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.440 anxiety ain't getting any better, right, There's a lot of 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:03.440 stuff going on out there. And enter one Harry Styles, 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:05.640 who has released I think it's the third video from 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:07.920 his new album. Now Harry is in a little bit 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:11.240 of trouble at the minute because his concert tickets are 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.080 really really expensive and they're not selling quite as well 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.720 as one would hope. But he knew how to counteract 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:22.080 this negative commentary, get the short shorts on release a 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.760 video that is literally just you thrusting in a very pleasing, 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.720 choreographed manner to a thirsty, thirsty crowd, which is what 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:33.199 he did. Here is a little bit of the morale 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:52.760 boosting Harry Styles video. Then next flick to next slide 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.440 on my social media speed Taron Edgerton. Do you know 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:57.600 who he is? I do? 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:01.960 What's he been in Okay sing for a start, so 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:05.160 anyone with small children knows exactly who Taron Egerton is. 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:09.040 An animated animal that. 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.520 Can you play Elton John that. I fell in love 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:15.239 with him. I thought he was great in that. 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.000 He's just so charming and talented. He's kind of like 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:19.120 a Welshoe Jackman. 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.120 He is rumored to be the next bond him and 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.679 a Lordie duking it out to be. But anyway, he 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:30.559 is also all over your feed dancing in short shorts 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:35.080 because he's promoting this movie that's on Netflix called Apex. Yes, 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:37.520 the way to get people to watch this movie is 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.359 to dance in short shorts. I fell for this, watched 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:41.440 this movie on the weekend. 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:43.600 It's not good, so I was curious because it was 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.280 filmed in the Blue Mountains. It has Charlie's Sarron, who 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:48.240 I also love. Why is it not good? 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:51.639 So it's a horror movie that isn't quite a horror movie, 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:54.760 and it's a thriller that isn't quite a thriller. But 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:59.600 it has an excellent promotional hook, and that is that 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:01.920 Taran who plays Psycho. 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.800 In it, not that'sycho, which is a bit of a 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:05.280 red flat. 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.480 It's not in the trailer he has revealed to be 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:10.480 a psycho, so it's not a spoiler that he's a psycho. 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.799 But he does this thing where his Charlie's Theron is 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:17.840 there and he gets a big speaker out and he goes, 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.799 you've got until this end of this song to get 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.200 as far away from me as possible. 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.840 Which is a good promise, if not a particularly realistic one. 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:27.239 It's like how the Killer. 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:29.320 And movies is always like I'm going to explain what 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.480 I'm going to do to you at length. 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:33.320 And give you an opportunity to get away. 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:37.160 And so Tarana did impress his play and dances a lot. 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.080 And it's like dark punk weird. 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.400 It's a really weird dance and everyone's doing it on TikTok. 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:43.280 Every bone's doing and. 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:46.160 I did you see this movie? 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:46.320 Now? 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.040 I'm sorry, I know you say it isn't good. 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.200 Don't watch the movie. Just watch that bit. The movie 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:50.960 is disturbing. 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:53.720 Can even play a bad guy? He's such a good guy. 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:54.960 He's really bad in it. 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:57.160 But anyway, but he's got an ass. The accent is 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:58.160 the Aussie accent bad? 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:01.080 No, the ass accent is good, okay, but the reflection 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:05.120 of Ozsie men in general is bad. Everybody Shallie's bumps 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.040 into wants to do bad things to her. Sort of 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:12.520 lots of outback cliches. But anyway, I digress. The way 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.120 that Taran has been promoting this on Instagram is that 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.200 he is doing that doing his dance in Little Short. 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:21.520 Do you think he ever thinks to himself, Clark Gabill 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:22.320 never had to do this? 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.320 I reckon he does. But then I think he thinks 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:28.800 this is where we're living now, this is where I live. 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.840 So the Short Shorts is back and I'm not mad 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.680 about it. And then, just to confirm my status as 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:41.440 the most Basic of Bitch's Mega brand ads launched their 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.680 World Cup ad. It's about to be the Football World Cup. 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.080 Soccer Worlds to you people, but football. 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:49.479 To me. 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:51.480 It's going to be in Mexico. It's going to be 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:57.440 America for World Cup, TM for World Cup sponsored by 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:04.359 ADM starting for Timothy Shallo May because some of my 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:08.440 basic obsessions also invaded this ad. That's a short film 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:10.479 because I don't know there are no starving people in 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.040 the world. Whatever they needed to spend one hundred and 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.320 twenty million dollars on their at but it's got Challi May, 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.839 Bad Bunny, close personal friend of mine, a young David 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:22.160 Beckham and. 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:23.320 It relies a young David. 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:28.160 So the AI in a like mohawk era David Beckham 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:30.320 because it's got all nineties nostalgia. 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.520 Wreake me up when they do this with the Spice girls. 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:34.880 Well they will, but what is it about the men 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:35.520 in the shorts. 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:40.719 It's just so sexy and it's so distracting and it's 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.839 so wholesome. And on the weekend I was I was 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:47.200 sitting at brunch and one person was like, how about 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:49.720 the UFOs? And I was like, this is one of 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.679 those moments where you see where everyone's algorithm is. Because 0:05:53.279 --> 0:06:00.400 you're talking about mine. I was like, not looking at 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:04.159 the UFOs, I'm looking at some red little shorties, and 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:07.039 I'm looking at Harry Styles doing a sexy little dance 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:08.600 and it's just oh. 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.720 It's the gender fluidity of it. It's the hm. I 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:12.840 just really like it. 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.440 But anyway, I don't care because Trump might have released 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:20.520 the UFO files had it has released Bad Bunny. So 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.240 speaking of things that some of us may need to 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:28.479 be distracted from, you might be seeing headlines around today 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:33.479 and yesterday that say things like Pauline Nation, Orange Country, 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:39.920 Hanson's House, a political earthquake has rocked Australian politics. All 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.280 of these superlatives are about what happened in Australia on 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.799 the weekend. The results of a by election in regional 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.839 New South Wales have It isn't an overstatement to say 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:55.000 this changed the political landscape so Farah is an area 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:58.039 of New South Wales, like an electorate in New South 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.400 Wales that is roughly the size of South Career. Now, 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:02.640 everyone keeps saying that, and I'll actually know how big 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:04.279 South Career is, but it sounds big. 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:06.520 It just reminds you how big Australia is. 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:09.479 It really does. So it's a very big electorate. It 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.800 has less than two hundred thousand people in it. It 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.360 was Susan Lee's electorate, so the woman who until quite 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.360 recently was the leader of the Liberal Party and who resigned, 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.000 and when she resigned, she also resigned as an MP, 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:25.040 so triggering a by election up for grabs. One Nation 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:28.320 won the by election a man called David Farley. He 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.880 is the first One Nation candidate elected into the Lower House. 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:35.400 And if you're going but hold on Pauline Barnaby. So 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:39.400 Pauline Hanson was elected in nineteen ninety six, but she 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.800 was an independent and she didn't form One Nation till 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:47.080 ninety seven, so she wasn't elected as a one Nation MP. Similarly, 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.280 Barnaby Joyce now one of the most high profile One 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:51.720 Nation faces. But of course, until very recently a natch 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:56.240 a national right. So this is the first time that 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.160 a one Nation MP has run and been elected to 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:02.440 the Lower House One Nation MP. Right, And there's the 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:07.480 reason why everybody's really nervous. The reason I say nervous 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.120 is not necessarily obviously, if you're a one Nation support 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.600 you're not nervous. You're excited about this, but the establishment 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.600 is nervous because this is believed to be the first 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.720 sign that things are really shifting in terms of what 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:22.880 one nation can do to the right leaning politics. Here 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.640 is a little grab of what Pauline Hansen said in 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.960 Farah on Saturday night when she came up along with 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.800 Barnaby to congratulate David Farley and take the seat. 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.880 This is not only wind, It's a win for the 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:43.959 rest of Australia. I'm seeing the sea of these proud 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.200 Australian spaces here in front of me, hundreds of you, 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.640 but millions are watching on in TVs now and I 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:57.520 believe it's giving them hope to people to represent you, 0:08:57.679 --> 0:08:59.600 the people to get out country back. 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:00.760 Now. 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.800 The thing that's interesting about this, you will have heard 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:05.959 her say get your country back. You will have heard her, 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:08.960 you know, make her claim there that lots of Australians 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.360 will be excited. This is exactly what's got a lot 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:15.640 of people nervous because ever since Pauline Hanson went into 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.440 Parliament ninety six and made her famous maiden speech where 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:22.360 she said that Australia was being swamped by Asians, she 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.240 and One Nation have on and off for thirty years now, 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:27.880 been dismissed a lot of times as a joke, as 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.600 an extremist fringe, and it seems like this is the 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.560 moment they go mainstream. 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:35.120 And it took thirty years. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:36.240 Took thirty years. 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.400 And what is also interesting is that Farah has been 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:42.959 a safe coalition seat for like eighty years. 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:44.120 Labor didn't even stand. 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:46.400 The Labor I didn't have a candidate, which I think is. 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:50.079 They know it's a conservative scene, but they didn't necessarily well, 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.000 it's been obvious during this campaign that it was going 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.640 to be a prime one nation pick. The thing that 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.000 has people nervous about this being a one nation moment 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:03.760 is that they've got serious funding One Nation now in 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.400 the form of Gina Rehnhart, who we know has bought 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:09.080 Pauline the plane that she is flying around very prominently in. 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.240 They've got a very experienced politician on the books. Whatever 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.720 you think about Barnaby Joyce, that man knows how politics works. 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:16.800 He has been Deputy. 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:17.960 Planned to know how pavements work. 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:21.559 Now he doesn't know how he has been deputy Prime minister. 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:26.080 He's only fifty nine. Like he understands the establishment so 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:29.440 they have got a level of legitimacy, and they also 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:34.160 have an electorate who is broadly very pissed off with 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:38.120 the status quo Amelia. This feels to me like a 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.200 trend to be taken very seriously if you look at 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.800 what's happening in the UK, what has happened in America? 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:48.559 What's your prim because something crazy happened in the UK, right, yes. 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:52.120 So very very quickly over the weekend in the UK 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:57.200 there was national council elections, so these are elections to 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:01.400 elect your local representatives, like literal council seats all over 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:04.280 the country and actually in Wales and Scotland as well. 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.199 And what happened in that is that Labor, who are 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:12.199 the sitting government, have lost more than a thousand councils. 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:17.439 A lot is insane because they won, not unlike mister Albanesi, 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:20.280 which might be why also he's a little nervous today. 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.920 Not unlike the Australian Labor Party. The British Labor Party 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.880 won in a landslide victory in the last election, which 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.080 was less than two years ago. Right, but now have 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.960 such an unpopular prime minister that there is broad talk 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:35.520 he's not going to make it to the next election 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:41.200 and reform. Who are basically Britain's one nation if you like. 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.559 The far right Populist Party have taken more than a 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.839 thousand seats in this election. Nigel Faraj, who is their leader, 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:51.680 who again, like Pauline not to labor a comparison seen 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.680 as a joke for a lot of years, is tipped 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:58.120 to be the next legitimate Prime Minister of Britain. So no, 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.280 really really, I mean a lot of experts so that 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:02.280 won't happen and they will never win the seats that 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:05.320 were always going to be firmly remain. But he is 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:09.640 at the moment in the polls preferred PM. So this 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.680 is the trend we're seeing around Europe. We've obviously seen 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:14.920 what happened with trump Ism in America. It seems like 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.040 a moment to be taken very seriously and not dismissed 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.160 as something strange that happened in the regions. What do 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:20.960 you say, Yeah, no. 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:22.199 I think that's absolutely right. 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:26.480 I was really interested to read and hear from one 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:30.200 Nation voters in parah as to why they made this shift, 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.720 because this is what happened, There was a shift towards 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:36.760 one nation. What made them move and Rob Harris did 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.360 some particular good reporting on this in the Nine Newspapers. 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.000 A quote which stuck with me from this was someone 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.079 said to Rob, we don't have any good politicians, so 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.559 people are just saying F the lot of views. I think, 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.520 and when I try and summarize the last decade of 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.600 politics in Western democracies, I think F the lot of 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:59.000 you is kind of a good slogan for it, because. 0:12:59.120 --> 0:12:59.880 What struck me. 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.839 I mean, what's interesting is that the one Nation than 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.200 now the member for Farah recently ran for the Labor parties. 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:09.319 So what's clear is that this is not an ideological shift. 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.600 I don't even think the term far right applies here. 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.600 I think it's more people want to burn everything down 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:17.880 and they are justifiably angry. You know. I read in 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:21.800 the newspapers today that Australian inequality has now widened to 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.240 a sort of unprecedented degree. The budget this week is 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.680 going to address housing affordability, we're told, because that's become 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.240 a huge problem for young people. There are lots of 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:35.200 reasons to feel really angry, and there is a sense 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.160 that the major parties have just been in denial about 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:39.920 that sentiment. 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:40.720 In the electorate. 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:44.160 I get it, and obviously I'm not even speaking from 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:48.360 a regional perspective, and those trends of inequality, lack of 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:52.599 access to services the general and certification of our economy, 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.680 these are trends being felt even more acutely in the regions. 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.760 There's a really clever expert on polling data called Cause 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:02.880 and I've been reading a lot of his analysis over 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:07.160 what happened over the weekend, and he said the towns 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.160 that swung the hardest to one nation were the ones 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:14.559 that had a climbing median age. It's a little bit older, 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:19.360 wealth going backwards, population shrinking, local economies and small businesses 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:24.320 in decline, and that is something that just kind of 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:29.680 wasn't addressed by other parties, whereas one nation was willing 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:34.600 to acknowledge those issues and put a scapegoat in place 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.920 for why those issues might exist. But Holly, I want 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:41.920 to challenge what you're saying about Australia going in the 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.480 same direction as the UK, because I do think it's 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:50.400 really important to acknowledge that while there is this swing, 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:57.520 the swing currently for one nation only exists against the 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:02.360 Liberal National Party the because what's interesting is that Barnaby Joyce. 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.920 After this, there's a clip of him saying Western Sydney, 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:07.760 here we come. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:13.160 no no. And when you kind of really break down 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:18.400 the polling data this Cosmarus does the most clever analysis 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:22.800 where he's like, it's just not going to happen because 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.600 there's a demographic wall. Where as soon as you get 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:32.720 to Western Sydney, say, the makeup of that demographic is 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.280 literally what one nation is running against. 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:36.520 Now, as soon as you. 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.560 Get to anybody, all the polling shows, as soon as 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.240 you get to people who were not born in Australia, 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.240 people who speak a language other than English at home, 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.080 they are not their voting labor. 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.200 I am not conventional wisdom. I think there are no 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.280 rules anymore. Like that's certainly something that could have been 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.680 said with certainty again ten years ago. But if you 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.520 look at who really voted for Trump, who shifted to 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.800 Trump in the latest selection in the US, I'm not 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:04.640 saying that the countries are the same. 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:06.960 I'm just pointing out an interesting data point. 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.840 It was, in fact, people who were first generation migrants 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.280 to the US who really shifted to vote for Trump. Now, 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:16.480 you might think that's strange given that he also was 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:17.960 not a fan of immigration. 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.400 I just think it's an era of no rules. 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.600 I think though, that those people who might be in 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.560 their thirties or forties and are the parent are the 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:32.160 children of people who immigrated to Australia. They remember Pauline 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:33.360 Hanson in the nineties. 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:34.440 They remember. 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:36.880 You don't have to go back to the nineties, right, 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.640 So it isn't that long ago that Pauline Hanson said 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.640 that there were no good Muslims, for example. There is 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.160 no question that she still is sticking to a lot 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:49.240 of that outrageous rhetoric. But the thing is that's happening 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.320 because I mean, I don't disagree with your point, but 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.240 the thing it's a it's not great if the cities 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:59.400 and the regions are completely ideologically separated, and it doesn't 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.479 really work that way. The suburbs are massive and strolling 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.680 like Australia is a diverse country, but it's still got 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.720 this very traditional heartland. What are the things that one 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.720 nation are running on a lot and so other liberals 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:14.920 is that this is a rotten government, get us out 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:18.879 of here. If people are broadly disaffected, then they blame 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:22.400 the people in charge that's why all the COVID governments 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:26.520 got thrown out. And it's complicated to a point. But 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:31.120 what I think you're seeing with this mainstreaming of one 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.480 nation is every little win that they make makes them 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.520 more legitimate. They will pull themselves into line a little bit. 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.520 In Pauline Hanson's speech on Saturday night, she said I'm 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:44.360 not anti immigration, I'm just pro Australia, you know, all 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:47.000 of that kind of stuff. They'll pull themselves into line 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:51.320 a little bit on the most extreme parts of their conversation, 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.119 and you're going to see a vote, which is what 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.879 I think was echoed a lot by someone who was 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.720 saying I'm not racist, but I vote one nation or 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.320 in the same way that people do with Donald Trump. 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.680 They excuse the craziness, they excuse, oh, he doesn't really 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.040 mean it, all of those things. What you see often 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.560 in populous leaders, this is true of Nigel Farage as well, 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.119 is they're kind of covered like and Barnaby Joyce is 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.600 Australia's version of this, and he always has been. They're 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:24.320 covered like entertaining buffoons rather than anything more sinister. And 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:28.119 so what I'm saying is I'm not suggesting that there's 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:33.000 a you know, again, depending on your ideological point. I'm 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.800 not suggesting that there's going to be a landslide that way, 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.320 but I'm suggesting we take it very seriously and anyone 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.800 who isn't a fan of that side of politics shouldn't 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.919 dismiss this as either a regional issue, because people in 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:50.640 regional Australia do get very jacked off with always being 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:54.720 treated like second class citizens, no question, and also treat 0:18:54.760 --> 0:19:01.320 it not as some kind of jokey extremist aberration but 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:03.560 actually something that is happening around the world that we 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:05.200 should take as seriously as anyone. 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:09.320 It's interesting that Pauline Hanson has revealed that she's considering 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:11.760 moving from the Senate to the House of Representatives of 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.960 the next federal election. I remember you said to me 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.280 a few months ago, Holly, that you thought that Pauline 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.280 Hanson had a decent shot at being prime minister. And 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:23.320 of course you have to be in the House of 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.960 Representatives to be prime minister. So shall we listen to 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:27.120 her talk about That. 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:30.520 Is under consideration, No decisions have been made, but still 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.000 two years outside the election, so it is under consideration. 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.359 I do think that, but I also think not that 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:41.600 I want to sit around making predictions. Barnaby may actually 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:45.200 be Pauline Hanson. As we were just saying thirty years 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.040 she's seventy one years old, is she? Which is amazing 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:50.720 because she's like the energy on the woman, right, whatever 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:54.240 you think about her, the energy on the woman. Barnaby 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.480 Joyce is only fifty nine. And I think that he 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:02.320 is a political opportunist. He can speak to non city 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:04.800 centric Australians in a way that nobody else is. He's 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:08.159 a man, he has a big hat. I think I 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:12.600 am genuinely. I just think that no political party should 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:17.280 take this, should take their position for granted that Australia, 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:21.600 just like Britain, just like America, with these two sides, 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.080 it's not like that anymore. What they're seeing in that 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:27.600 UK election is the vote splitting five six parties. So 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:30.520 I think Australia that may well be something that we're 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:33.040 seeing here too. I just think that, you know, sometimes 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.600 we may have been quite complacent in Australia about falling 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:40.960 into the sort of more extreme corners of politics because 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:43.320 we've got compulsory voting. I know I've said that many 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:45.720 times that we don't have to work quite so hard 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:48.800 to enrage and engage the electric to get them out. 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.000 But I think there is a complacency in that that 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:54.120 we might be seeing chipping away. 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:59.000 After the break. Are you a time optimist? Meryl Streep 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:03.080 is in herf era, and I for one am here 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.520 for it because she has now taken on a personal 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.439 bugbear of mine. In an interview with Vanity Fair, she 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:14.800 revealed Goldie Horn was constantly late just set when the 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:17.480 two of them were filming Death Becomes Her. Here is 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.000 a clip of Meryll talking about it, and then Goldie 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:21.400 responding on the red carpet. 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.359 Yeah, so I had a beef with her. What do 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:25.040 you remember? 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:30.320 Marilyn got fifteen minutes later to everything I do. I mean, honestly, 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.719 it's unbelievable, but I think we got through that. I mean, 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:35.760 we've been such good friends for so long. It says so, 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:37.760 but this is her joke. So she said I was 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:39.760 too late on the set. Maybe she's too early. I 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:41.800 don't know. You know, sometimes when you're too early, you're 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:43.840 still waiting for somebody who think, oh God, where the 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:45.280 hell is Goldie. 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.959 I can't believe she says that maybe she's too early. 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:51.800 This is a problem with late people, they pass along 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:55.160 the problem to early people. Holly Hudson and The Guardian 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:58.280 wrote rather delightfully that you know how in that clip 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.160 Goldie says that she's like, yeahen minutes late to everything. 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:03.080 She was like, that's like when the doctor asks you 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:05.600 how much you drink, Like you just have to multiply it. 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:10.920 Fifteen minutes is not accurate, and poll references a Swedish 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:14.080 term for the chronically late, which is actually far too 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:17.240 nice for them, and that term is time optimists. These 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:19.480 are people who believe a half hour journey can be 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:22.359 made in fifteen minutes. Oh, these are people who believe 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:24.280 that a bag for a weekend trip can be packed 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:26.000 in five minutes when it actually takes twenty. 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:27.280 Yeah, you're both nodding. 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:31.040 Claire, is time optimist a helpful label for you to 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:32.720 explain why you are always late? 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:34.240 Is that what's going on inside your head? 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:34.680 Yes? 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:35.959 Help me to understand it. 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:40.440 Makes me feel a lot better about it, because I'm 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.240 not an optimist about anything, and so thinking that I 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:46.760 might be an optimist when it comes to time is lovely. 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:51.520 In that article, the author wrote, would they manage to 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:54.320 be on time for a date with Harry Styles exactly. 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:56.520 And my answer to that is genuinely. 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:58.040 No, genuinely no. 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:03.119 It's almost like the more important something is the later it. 0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:06.879 So I read an article literally ten years ago that 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:11.439 explained myself to me, and it actually started out with 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:14.320 the idea of time optimism, and it's by Tim urban 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:16.600 Weight but why it's my favorite blog of all time. 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:21.159 But he kind of expresses the time optimism idea at 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:23.720 the beginning and tries to be like, yeah, maybe I'm 0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:26.600 just really optimistic, and then he's like, now, let's be honest, 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:31.320 I'm insane, and he breaks down the fact that he 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:35.119 calls himself a chronically late insane person a clip a clip, 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:38.879 and so he's like, there's okay lateness and not okay lateness. 0:23:38.880 --> 0:23:39.560 I agree with this. 0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:42.960 He's like, I fall into not okay lateness. And he's like, 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:45.080 there are those who don't feel bad about it, and 0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:47.919 there are those who have self loathing. I have self loathing. 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:51.040 That makes you a chronically late insane person and that's me. 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:54.080 But isn't that okay lateness and not okay lateness? That 0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:57.120 is a situation specific? Because I believe that I believe 0:23:57.160 --> 0:23:59.080 there are things it's okay to be late for and things. 0:23:59.119 --> 0:24:00.720 It's not okay to be like it is ok to 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:04.119 be late for high So I am a late person, 0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:06.919 but I'm selectively late. I'm rarely late for work, and 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:09.160 I'm really true for this record. 0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:12.400 Would you be late to a date with Harry Styles? 0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:13.560 Of course not. 0:24:16.200 --> 0:24:17.680 Holy's like I've got my priorities. 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:20.800 Maybe is not equipped there, She's not chronically. 0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:21.800 But you're not insane. 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:24.359 I think in my other areas of my life, we 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:27.320 are always fifteen minutes late. And my daughter, who is 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:31.239 sixteen now, has internalized this and says to me all 0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:33.840 the time, we are always late for everything, and she 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:36.480 hates it, right, and I try really hard to not be, 0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:37.160 but I just can't. 0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:38.240 Can I tell you the good news? 0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:40.960 Because your daughter is like that, she is going to 0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:42.520 be a punctual person in her whole life. 0:24:42.560 --> 0:24:45.240 She as a result, she probably is. But this is 0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:49.080 my defense. Okay, lateness. Here's an example. Right, I am 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:52.280 meeting for We're meeting for drinks at seven, dinner at 0:24:52.320 --> 0:24:55.040 seven point thirty, I'm leaving. I won't leave the office 0:24:55.080 --> 0:24:57.200 till six thirty, even though I know it will take 0:24:57.240 --> 0:24:59.560 at least twenty five minutes depending on traffic, and I'm 0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:02.440 not ready yet, because any time between seven and seven 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:05.360 fifteen is fine in that situation because you're in a bar, 0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:07.040 you've got your phone, you've got a drink, you don't 0:25:07.040 --> 0:25:10.320 care well, okay, lesness, right, you can order a drink. 0:25:10.359 --> 0:25:12.080 We need to go back to the phone after this. 0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:12.600 Y Yeah. 0:25:13.320 --> 0:25:15.760 If me and my daughter are going to pick up 0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:18.560 a friend to go shopping and we say ten thirty am, 0:25:19.040 --> 0:25:22.840 anytime before eleven is fine because she's at home, she's warm, 0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:25.560 she's fed, she's not It's fine, Like, that's okay lateness 0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:26.440 in my mind. 0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:28.959 I'm not nodding. I want the record to be I'm 0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:29.360 not nothing. 0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:31.320 Am I wrong that that's your lateness. 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:34.600 There is one event to which you were permitted to 0:25:34.640 --> 0:25:36.720 be late, in fact, to which you were expected to 0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:40.119 be late, and that is dinner at someone's house. You 0:25:40.200 --> 0:25:44.600 must arrive seven to fifteen minutes after the desigated time. 0:25:44.680 --> 0:25:47.439 Definitely not early, and I will literally, because I'm on 0:25:47.520 --> 0:25:49.680 time everywhere. I will have to walk around the block 0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:52.080 a couple of times because it feels so wrong to 0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:54.679 be seven to fifteen minutes late. But that is what 0:25:54.760 --> 0:25:56.439 I will do, because that is the one event to 0:25:56.480 --> 0:25:57.680 which you are allowed to be late. 0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:00.119 Why are you so punctual, Amelia? 0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:02.679 Because I grew up in a household where we relate 0:26:02.760 --> 0:26:05.199 to things, and it made me really stressed. So I 0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:07.960 recognize your daughter's pain. I do want to talk about 0:26:08.080 --> 0:26:10.840 phones and how they have changed the game a little bit, 0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:15.359 because I think that for people who are on time, 0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:18.399 we care less now if people are late. That is 0:26:18.400 --> 0:26:21.480 my contention because before I used to have to stare 0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:23.720 into thin air and think about the rise of one 0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:26.680 nation instead of just scrolling my phone. Now I can 0:26:26.720 --> 0:26:29.320 just scroll my phone and I'm not bored, and so 0:26:29.480 --> 0:26:32.080 I don't care as much if people are late these days. 0:26:32.640 --> 0:26:33.520 Yeah, you think that's true. 0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:35.159 Have you noticed that people are less annoyed at you 0:26:35.200 --> 0:26:35.600 these days? 0:26:35.800 --> 0:26:36.080 Yeah? 0:26:36.200 --> 0:26:39.040 Yeah, And that they might even be like, oh, it's okay, 0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:40.920 I'll get a little bit of work done, Like they'll 0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:44.120 like answer some emails. I'm giving you time back. Yes, 0:26:44.200 --> 0:26:47.040 I'm actually doing a favor here. But I will say 0:26:47.119 --> 0:26:50.879 as much as like, I am insane. I don't understand 0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:54.200 how time works. I will never understand how it works. 0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:57.320 How it just it goes. It goes so fast, it's 0:26:57.400 --> 0:26:59.440 just amazing. How quickly it goes? For everything? 0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:00.680 Always take long? 0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:03.960 Agree, then you think it will how every time? 0:27:04.280 --> 0:27:07.120 Just take fifteen minutes? Everything takes fifteen every. 0:27:06.920 --> 0:27:09.560 Time maps I get in the car and it's like 0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:11.560 it's going to take twenty minutes, and then next minute 0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:12.560 twenty eight minutes. 0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:14.159 This is on here. 0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:17.160 Since you have said that time takes time, I think 0:27:17.200 --> 0:27:20.560 that's your observation. I have to ask you about another 0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:24.880 equally obvious thing. Being late is anxiety, as you think, 0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:27.080 why are you living like that? Why are you not 0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:30.560 embracing the relaxed pace of someone who is on time? 0:27:30.840 --> 0:27:36.320 Yeah, okay, so okay, it's two other things. One is 0:27:37.080 --> 0:27:41.320 that in the moment reality of I never I never 0:27:41.359 --> 0:27:44.919 want to stop what I'm doing. So it's actually like 0:27:45.119 --> 0:27:46.480 the actions. 0:27:46.200 --> 0:27:48.720 You're more present, that's what you're saying. You're just simply 0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:49.960 more present in the moment. 0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:53.159 No, it's that like, for example, and I'm finding this 0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:56.040 more and more like if I have to leave the office, 0:27:56.560 --> 0:28:00.280 I kind of twiddle around and like, don't I think 0:28:00.280 --> 0:28:01.920 it's genuinely the transition of leaving. 0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:03.600 I don't get that because all I want to do 0:28:03.680 --> 0:28:05.159 is leave the office and go to the bar to 0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:06.200 have the seven pm drinks. 0:28:06.359 --> 0:28:07.280 I do not understand. 0:28:07.320 --> 0:28:07.720 I don't know. 0:28:07.960 --> 0:28:10.680 I just kind of like wander around in circles and 0:28:10.720 --> 0:28:15.760 then But then it's also I think that because I'm 0:28:15.800 --> 0:28:19.159 always late, this is it. Because I'm always late and 0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:20.920 I've never known what it's like to not be late, 0:28:21.640 --> 0:28:24.600 I assume I will be late, and I'm delaying that 0:28:24.680 --> 0:28:30.160 self loathing, yes, which which is a cycle. So I'm like, oh, 0:28:30.200 --> 0:28:32.800 I hate turning up late. So what I'll do is 0:28:32.840 --> 0:28:36.240 I'll procrastinate turning up, which makes me later. 0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:39.480 Okay, Okay, so it's insane. 0:28:40.000 --> 0:28:43.000 It's completely comment on that blog post that you mentioned 0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:46.040 that I thought was really interesting, the comment said that 0:28:46.320 --> 0:28:50.400 late people have to train themselves to trust themselves again 0:28:50.960 --> 0:28:54.320 because they've kind of like lost faith in their own word. 0:28:54.720 --> 0:28:56.800 So an example would be like if you say I'm 0:28:56.800 --> 0:28:58.480 going to get up at six point thirty, but you 0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:01.440 know that you actually always press the snooze button and 0:29:01.560 --> 0:29:04.240 actually get up at six forty five, so you kind 0:29:04.240 --> 0:29:05.280 of don't trust yourself. 0:29:05.280 --> 0:29:06.280 Do you think that's part of it? 0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:08.880 One hundred percent. I've spoken to my psychologists about this. 0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:11.640 It's like self efficacy, like the belief that you can 0:29:11.720 --> 0:29:14.360 do what you said you were going to do, and 0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:17.920 it's really depressing when that falls off, like the idea 0:29:17.920 --> 0:29:19.640 of I'll go to the gym and I'm like, I 0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:20.400 know I won't. 0:29:20.680 --> 0:29:22.400 I never hold my head because. 0:29:22.160 --> 0:29:25.040 It's like the self talk is no longer something you 0:29:25.120 --> 0:29:25.520 believe in. 0:29:25.720 --> 0:29:28.320 Yes, but then I think you can structure your life 0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:30.600 a bit where it's like, I am scared of other people, 0:29:31.640 --> 0:29:35.000 so I do being accountable to you don't like. 0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:35.600 Being in trouble. 0:29:35.680 --> 0:29:36.720 I don't like being in trouble. 0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:39.560 When you're late, you're in trouble, yeah, a lot. And 0:29:39.600 --> 0:29:41.600 it's like I have to kind of set my life 0:29:41.680 --> 0:29:43.680 up where I'm a little. 0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:45.680 Bit scared, yeah, right of other people. 0:29:45.880 --> 0:29:50.160 Yes, And I will say I reckon, I'm late less 0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:53.200 now than I used to be because I have genuinely 0:29:53.240 --> 0:29:54.600 slowed my life down a little bit. 0:29:54.680 --> 0:29:56.720 Yeah, from like my twenties. 0:29:56.440 --> 0:29:58.640 Your time optimistic, Yeah. 0:29:58.440 --> 0:30:03.040 I just I genuinely have a bit more, which sounds 0:30:03.240 --> 0:30:06.280 sounds crazy because with a toddler, and I think maybe 0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:09.840 having a toddler being aware that everything really does take 0:30:09.880 --> 0:30:12.600 three times as long as you think it will because 0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:13.720 of her, But. 0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:16.200 Deeply believe in the optimism bit of it, though I 0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:18.480 think the late people are generally more she'd be right 0:30:18.760 --> 0:30:20.760 an they like, isn't that kind of the thing? 0:30:20.880 --> 0:30:22.600 Maybe today will be There are some. 0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:24.200 Things you cannot be late for. You can't be late 0:30:24.240 --> 0:30:26.760 for job interviews, you cannot be late for weddings. You 0:30:26.840 --> 0:30:29.520 cannot be late for you know something very specific, A 0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:32.240 friends ask you to support them at a medical appointment, Like, 0:30:32.240 --> 0:30:34.760 obviously you can't be late for those things. But I 0:30:34.800 --> 0:30:37.920 don't the people, the punctual people who just say all 0:30:38.040 --> 0:30:40.280 lateness is selfish. I can't subscribe to that. 0:30:40.600 --> 0:30:44.000 Can we talk a little bit about how you notify 0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:46.320 people of your lateness, because that's changed a bit with 0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:50.200 phones too, So some punctual people say, I don't care 0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:51.760 how late you are, as long as you keep me 0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:52.240 in the loop. 0:30:52.960 --> 0:30:54.320 I am not one of those people. 0:30:54.400 --> 0:30:57.200 I do not want to hear like the like status 0:30:57.280 --> 0:30:59.720 checks every five minutes, of the fact that the traffic 0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:01.880 is so bad and the fact that you couldn't find 0:31:01.920 --> 0:31:04.080 your shoe. I don't want to know. I just want 0:31:04.120 --> 0:31:07.320 to sit there in peace until you arrive. But but 0:31:07.400 --> 0:31:09.800 there's two camps, so do you find yourself having to 0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:11.160 navigate those two camps? 0:31:11.240 --> 0:31:14.040 I'm the same I don't want the update. I was 0:31:14.120 --> 0:31:17.880 having lunch with friends on Saturday and Jesse just went 0:31:17.920 --> 0:31:21.960 to the wrong venue and she was sending all these 0:31:22.040 --> 0:31:24.880 updates and I was like, I'm busy because I'm here, 0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:26.640 I don't and. 0:31:27.040 --> 0:31:29.320 Got the bus to the wrong place. I thought we 0:31:29.320 --> 0:31:32.120 were going here, just arrived. 0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:36.360 We're we're not checking in on your messages. I have 0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:39.080 a specific kind of time blindness where once i'm late, 0:31:39.120 --> 0:31:42.240 I can't look anymore at the time day. So you know, 0:31:42.440 --> 0:31:43.880 like say I said I was going to meet you 0:31:43.880 --> 0:31:46.360 at seven, and I stuck on the bus and it's traffic, 0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:49.280 and now it could be seventh, there could be seven, ten, 0:31:49.360 --> 0:31:50.760 it could be seven to twenty five. I'm like, I'm 0:31:50.800 --> 0:31:51.760 just going to be like, I can't look. 0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:53.600 So you're not telling them, You're not giving them the 0:31:53.640 --> 0:31:54.400 status update. 0:31:55.040 --> 0:31:56.920 Just all I'm going to say, and this I know 0:31:57.000 --> 0:31:59.240 none of this covers me in glory, is don't believe 0:31:59.360 --> 0:32:02.400 whatever status update I give you. So if my message 0:32:02.400 --> 0:32:05.600 is say five minutes, just know it's at least fifty 0:32:05.800 --> 0:32:08.480 because I'm going to be optimistic and I'm also going 0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:10.400 to lie to your face because I don't want to 0:32:10.480 --> 0:32:12.760 upset you. And then once I'm stuck on the bus 0:32:12.800 --> 0:32:15.200 and it's in traffic, I can't make it. That's the 0:32:15.240 --> 0:32:17.120 point of looking at the time. That's the way I 0:32:17.120 --> 0:32:17.880 feel about. 0:32:17.680 --> 0:32:23.560 It after the break. Some people are liked by everyone. 0:32:23.640 --> 0:32:26.200 They and their names. 0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:30.560 Are hollyway right, stop it, and this is apparently why. 0:32:30.360 --> 0:32:35.280 You're going to create a backlash. 0:32:35.600 --> 0:32:38.520 I came across an Instagram carousel last week and my 0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:42.480 thumb stopped immediately because it read some people are liked 0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:45.560 by everyone they meet. Researchers found out the one thing 0:32:45.760 --> 0:32:49.000 they all do, and I was like, cool, easy, I'll 0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:52.760 just solve this lifelong problem in an Instagram carousel, which 0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:54.800 is how I feel about most of my time on 0:32:54.840 --> 0:32:59.080 social media. Now, before I explain this in Layman's terms, 0:32:59.120 --> 0:33:02.360 I should probably give appropriate citation for those following along 0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:05.360 at home. This is based on a research study called 0:33:05.640 --> 0:33:10.080 Deconstructing the Rain of Error. Interpersonal warmth explains the self 0:33:10.080 --> 0:33:12.720 fulfilling prophecy of anticipated acceptance. 0:33:13.400 --> 0:33:15.040 You know, the academics were so pleased. 0:33:15.200 --> 0:33:18.000 I know Rain of error and everyone's like, what do 0:33:18.080 --> 0:33:21.280 you just do? It doesn't make any sense. But this 0:33:21.320 --> 0:33:23.800 is why we need Instagram carousels, because that is just 0:33:23.840 --> 0:33:27.440 a clunky title. Now, before I explain this in Layman's terms, 0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:31.000 I should probably give an appropriate citation. This is based 0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:34.240 on a research study called Deconstructing the Rain of Error. 0:33:34.480 --> 0:33:39.120 Interpersonal warmth explains the self fulfilling prophecy of anticipated acceptance 0:33:39.360 --> 0:33:44.600 by Stinson et al. In the Personality and Social Psychology bulletin. 0:33:44.920 --> 0:33:47.400 Does it say something about why everybody doesn't like you? 0:33:47.440 --> 0:33:49.560 That you had to give us all those citations before 0:33:49.560 --> 0:33:50.000 you start? 0:33:50.280 --> 0:33:52.920 Yes, because I'm like, there will be somebody listening who's like, 0:33:53.000 --> 0:33:55.120 I have a degree in psychology, and I think that 0:33:55.200 --> 0:33:56.240 you might be misrepresented. 0:33:56.240 --> 0:33:58.880 And also also I just need to also clarify that 0:33:58.920 --> 0:33:59.680 I don't think that. 0:34:03.200 --> 0:34:05.440 I should also hasten to add that I don't think 0:34:05.480 --> 0:34:07.640 that the secret to everyone liking you as being on time. 0:34:07.840 --> 0:34:10.600 Meryl Street was correct when she described herself as annoying. 0:34:10.640 --> 0:34:14.880 For me, it's not particularly warmth, which. 0:34:16.520 --> 0:34:22.920 So apparently people's expectations of acceptance often come to create 0:34:23.200 --> 0:34:26.600 the acceptance or rejection that they anticipate. 0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:28.400 Well, tell me what, let me explain that. 0:34:29.480 --> 0:34:33.560 So these researchers ran two separate studies, and again for 0:34:33.600 --> 0:34:36.959 those scientific people following along at home, one was correlational, 0:34:37.040 --> 0:34:39.040 but one was an experiment, so we've got the both 0:34:39.120 --> 0:34:43.799 the best of both worlds. So study one, their participants 0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:47.719 had to film a video introduction for a group. It's 0:34:47.760 --> 0:34:49.839 a pretty daunting thing to do, and when you get 0:34:49.880 --> 0:34:51.840 on a zoom and you're like, everyone hates my face. 0:34:51.880 --> 0:34:52.720 I hate my face. 0:34:53.239 --> 0:34:56.960 But those observers rated things like their confidence and their 0:34:57.000 --> 0:35:01.080 warmth and whether they actually liked them and in how. 0:35:01.000 --> 0:35:01.879 Mortifyed I know. 0:35:02.320 --> 0:35:06.800 And in that correlational study, warmth was the biggest predictor. 0:35:08.400 --> 0:35:10.840 Because that's not easy through the screen warmps. 0:35:11.080 --> 0:35:13.120 Isn't this basically what we do three times a week? 0:35:13.200 --> 0:35:18.040 Yeah, damn yeah, screens. 0:35:19.160 --> 0:35:22.040 So it wasn't it wasn't their confidence, it wasn't their mood, 0:35:22.719 --> 0:35:25.960 it wasn't kind of their energy. 0:35:26.640 --> 0:35:27.320 It was warmth. 0:35:27.600 --> 0:35:32.240 And then in study two single men had a face 0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:35.920 to face interaction with a woman and it was filmed 0:35:36.640 --> 0:35:40.360 and half those men were given a little queue beforehand 0:35:41.000 --> 0:35:43.880 that basically lowered the risk of rejection, so it warmed 0:35:43.880 --> 0:35:44.160 them up. 0:35:44.200 --> 0:35:45.640 So it might have been something. 0:35:45.400 --> 0:35:48.600 Like, oh, she likes guys like you or whatever, like 0:35:48.640 --> 0:35:52.440 something that was just a bit of you. 0:35:51.160 --> 0:35:52.520 Yeah, something like that. 0:35:53.280 --> 0:35:57.560 Observers then watched these interactions and rated how likable the 0:35:57.560 --> 0:36:02.000 guy was and men who expected rejection, Men who hadn't 0:36:02.000 --> 0:36:05.440 been primed with anything nice were seen to be colder 0:36:05.680 --> 0:36:06.879 and they were less liked. 0:36:07.040 --> 0:36:09.280 Yeah, that makes sense observers. 0:36:09.000 --> 0:36:11.040 Whereas men who had received a bit of a queue 0:36:11.080 --> 0:36:14.840 to reduce the risk of rejection were warmer and better liked. 0:36:15.160 --> 0:36:18.680 So the researchers explain that when people feel uncertain about 0:36:18.680 --> 0:36:21.600 whether they'll be accepted, they kind of pull back. 0:36:21.440 --> 0:36:22.200 On that warmth. 0:36:22.400 --> 0:36:27.240 It's preemptive, yes, to minimize the potential rejection, because it's. 0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:29.919 Basically if you think, if you walk around thinking people 0:36:29.960 --> 0:36:32.360 are going to like you, you're going to be warmer. 0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:32.879 Yes. 0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:35.120 And if you walk around thinking that people are going 0:36:35.160 --> 0:36:37.080 to have a problem with you, you're going to give 0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:38.760 off more reserved cold energy. 0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:39.200 Yes. 0:36:39.280 --> 0:36:43.920 And the important part of the design of this study, Holly, 0:36:44.440 --> 0:36:51.360 is that that people some people are warm. It's not though. 0:36:51.800 --> 0:36:54.400 It's something that can be manipulated. So if I say 0:36:54.480 --> 0:36:57.480 to you Amelia, say she actually thinks you're really cool, Hollie, 0:36:57.560 --> 0:36:59.879 and she really likes you, You're going to be more 0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:02.840 likable to a million one hundred. If I say Amelia 0:37:02.920 --> 0:37:04.839 was bitching about you in the list this morning, you're 0:37:04.880 --> 0:37:05.680 going to be colder. 0:37:06.239 --> 0:37:08.200 So it's something that we can all it's. 0:37:08.040 --> 0:37:11.360 A switch like you're not born with it, yeah. 0:37:11.200 --> 0:37:12.360 Which I really like. 0:37:12.719 --> 0:37:16.759 But this see to me, that explains I mean, it 0:37:18.000 --> 0:37:23.280 illustrates a lot because people who generally are really good 0:37:23.360 --> 0:37:26.240 with people in inverted commas and go around the world 0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:30.360 being good with people. There is an element of privilege 0:37:30.400 --> 0:37:34.040 that they've got where people generally like them, right, and 0:37:34.120 --> 0:37:36.840 so they go into every situation thinking this will be fine, 0:37:37.680 --> 0:37:39.960 and that there's a whole lot of reasons in your 0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:42.560 life that that will will or won't be true, right 0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:45.719 that are very complicated. Like my mum always used to say, 0:37:45.760 --> 0:37:47.759 you should always be happy to see your kids. That 0:37:47.800 --> 0:37:50.080 was her only parenting rule. Really, it's like every time 0:37:50.120 --> 0:37:52.440 you see them from when they're a little baby till 0:37:52.440 --> 0:37:56.600 when they're fifty, smile, look happy to see them. Now, 0:37:56.880 --> 0:37:58.960 that's a very good piece of advice, easier to pull 0:37:59.000 --> 0:38:01.719 off for some people than other, depending on your life stresses. 0:38:02.120 --> 0:38:04.480 But I reckon the people who are walking into rooms 0:38:04.560 --> 0:38:07.680 going like I'm here are the people who probably their 0:38:07.760 --> 0:38:11.120 mum was always happy to see them, Like it's privilege. 0:38:10.840 --> 0:38:13.279 It's privilege in a way, or they're very good at 0:38:13.320 --> 0:38:16.560 faking it, and I reckon it's You're right, I reckon 0:38:16.560 --> 0:38:19.440 it comes from self esteem as you grow up, like 0:38:19.560 --> 0:38:23.440 just generally thinking that you're a worthy person. 0:38:23.920 --> 0:38:25.759 The other thing I thought about a lot with this. 0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:30.520 Is physical attractiveness, because I'm like, if you grow up beautiful, 0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:34.719 you probably get so much nice feedback that you then 0:38:34.840 --> 0:38:38.000 assume people are going to like you, and then because 0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:40.000 you assume they will, then they do. 0:38:40.440 --> 0:38:43.359 But that does that mean, like are you saying that, like, 0:38:44.320 --> 0:38:47.160 do you think every supermodel is incredibly warm? I'm not 0:38:47.200 --> 0:38:49.680 sure that's no. In fact, that's famously not true. 0:38:49.800 --> 0:38:53.239 No, but I think there is something, you know, how 0:38:53.400 --> 0:38:55.880 like they always say, like people who are physically attractive 0:38:56.200 --> 0:38:58.279 freaking and all. 0:38:58.200 --> 0:38:59.759 Of that stuff. I think it probably is. 0:39:00.320 --> 0:39:02.919 But I'm not pulling out a tiny violin for Kia 0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:06.160 Gerber here, but it probably it would change the way 0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:08.279 people related to you in lots of different ways, and 0:39:08.320 --> 0:39:10.719 they would not all be positive because people they call 0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:14.360 to you, Yeah, people, people would win famously And this 0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:16.759 isn't true, but it's a stereotype that women don't like 0:39:16.800 --> 0:39:20.280 pretty women. Also, they might see them as a threat. Also, 0:39:20.400 --> 0:39:22.960 men might see you and again this is stereotypically, but 0:39:23.000 --> 0:39:25.200 you could be they might be more predatory towards you. So, 0:39:25.320 --> 0:39:27.440 although there is truth to that, I don't think it 0:39:27.480 --> 0:39:31.760 could be like it's probably more are you okay looking 0:39:32.800 --> 0:39:38.360 like whatever your culture deems unoffensive? Yes, which again plays 0:39:38.400 --> 0:39:41.000 into that part of like, you know a lot of 0:39:41.000 --> 0:39:43.560 this you wouldn't have anything to do with, do you reckon? 0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:46.520 There are tricks that anyone could do to make them 0:39:46.640 --> 0:39:49.280 seem warmer to people. If that's indeed what your aim. 0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:51.200 Is, well, I mean I think that's a question for you, 0:39:51.280 --> 0:39:55.359 hollyween right, because every time we do any kind of 0:39:56.200 --> 0:39:59.919 thing on the podcast about like your favorite host or 0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:03.799 which told you are doing this, it's not exactly that. 0:40:03.840 --> 0:40:06.520 But there was a personality There was a personality test 0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:08.600 that was like which one of you and everyone wanted 0:40:08.640 --> 0:40:10.840 to be Holly and Jesse and Maya cried about it 0:40:10.880 --> 0:40:14.480 for months and at the live show. 0:40:14.440 --> 0:40:17.120 Just think it's because I'm threatened. No, that's what it is, 0:40:18.200 --> 0:40:20.640 show that person. 0:40:21.920 --> 0:40:25.440 I have one practical tip. I once met the founder 0:40:25.440 --> 0:40:29.000 of aop guy. 0:40:29.120 --> 0:40:30.000 He's a Melbourneian. 0:40:30.880 --> 0:40:35.160 We had a coffee once and to this day, I 0:40:35.200 --> 0:40:39.759 have never met someone who smells so good. And it 0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:42.400 wasn't just poper mint before the coffee. I don't know 0:40:42.440 --> 0:40:46.920 what it was, but I said, remember that smell, and 0:40:47.000 --> 0:40:50.240 I do think someone's smelling nice. Rihanna is another person 0:40:50.320 --> 0:40:53.200 who is very famous for smelling nice, and she seems 0:40:53.280 --> 0:40:58.440 very warm. I wonder if like manipulating old factory senses 0:40:58.520 --> 0:41:01.560 could be a sort of short to likability, because you 0:41:01.600 --> 0:41:03.879 want to be around people who smell nice, and. 0:41:03.880 --> 0:41:07.040 It probably makes you you going into a social situation 0:41:07.200 --> 0:41:08.759 being like, I know I smell nice. 0:41:08.840 --> 0:41:10.680 Yes, that must be really nice. 0:41:10.600 --> 0:41:14.520 Yes, I think I like. I don't mind a bit 0:41:14.560 --> 0:41:17.200 of aloofness. I quite like a bit of win me 0:41:17.280 --> 0:41:20.040 over when I meet someone. But what I hate the 0:41:20.080 --> 0:41:23.799 snobbery and I reckon you can tell there's a little 0:41:23.840 --> 0:41:24.200 bit of. 0:41:25.840 --> 0:41:25.920 Like. 0:41:26.239 --> 0:41:29.720 I've always impressed by people who who don't immediately because 0:41:29.840 --> 0:41:33.279 fake warmth is worse than cold, Like fake warmth is. 0:41:33.280 --> 0:41:35.880 The worst thing is people who are like Hay and 0:41:35.920 --> 0:41:37.680 they've never met you in all of those kind of things. 0:41:38.239 --> 0:41:42.239 But then people who are I think you can read 0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:45.279 quite quickly whether somebody is trying to assess whether or 0:41:45.360 --> 0:41:47.279 not they have to be nice to you, and that 0:41:47.400 --> 0:41:50.080 is my snobbery radar. So they're kind of going, do 0:41:50.120 --> 0:41:53.280 you seem important? Do you seem to is there something 0:41:53.320 --> 0:41:56.839 you could do for me? And I don't want a stereotype, 0:41:56.840 --> 0:41:59.600 but men in management positions are very good at this 0:42:01.440 --> 0:42:03.640 when you kind of you talk to them and you 0:42:03.640 --> 0:42:06.319 can tell that they are trying to get in the 0:42:06.360 --> 0:42:08.480 first few questions they ask you, they're trying to decide 0:42:08.480 --> 0:42:12.560 whether you're worthy of their warmth. The worst genuinely warm 0:42:12.600 --> 0:42:16.239 people are warm to everybody right and until you prove them, 0:42:16.320 --> 0:42:17.719 until you give them reason to. 0:42:17.640 --> 0:42:19.480 Not be And it's so true that you have to 0:42:19.560 --> 0:42:22.480 kind of short circuit the rejection part of your brain. 0:42:22.880 --> 0:42:25.440 So there was another study recently that I remember. The 0:42:25.480 --> 0:42:28.879 headline in the Atlantic was if you actually was in box, 0:42:29.000 --> 0:42:31.640 if you invite everyone to everything, you will be happier. 0:42:32.360 --> 0:42:35.040 And that was such a revelation for me because I'm 0:42:35.080 --> 0:42:38.600 not naturally someone who invites everyone to everything, but I'm 0:42:38.640 --> 0:42:41.000 married to someone who invites everyone to everything, and it's 0:42:41.040 --> 0:42:44.400 astonishing what happens because sometimes they do get rejected, like 0:42:44.440 --> 0:42:46.680 sometimes people are weird, Like it's not always the case 0:42:46.719 --> 0:42:48.480 that if you're warmed to someone, they will be warm. 0:42:48.560 --> 0:42:52.120 Give me an example of when you should invite everybody 0:42:52.120 --> 0:42:53.840 to everything like that, where. 0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:57.480 Well, what I've seen happen is my husband invites everyone 0:42:57.520 --> 0:43:00.160 to everything, and most people are kind of surprised and 0:43:00.160 --> 0:43:03.279 delighted and like they're like, sure, I'll come to dinner. 0:43:03.320 --> 0:43:05.959 I don't really know you, but that sounds really nice. 0:43:06.040 --> 0:43:09.240 Then there's this small percentage of people who will respond 0:43:09.320 --> 0:43:11.560 weirdly and he will be like, I don't know you, 0:43:11.640 --> 0:43:14.120 I'm not coming to dinner, you know, and like, instead 0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:17.000 of being completely discombobulated by that and going to cry 0:43:17.000 --> 0:43:18.920 in a corner, he just moves on. 0:43:19.360 --> 0:43:21.080 Yeah. Yeah, that's like my husband. 0:43:21.080 --> 0:43:23.760 He's gotten very into that lately, where he'll have birthday 0:43:23.840 --> 0:43:28.560 drinks and just invite everyone and be like and everyone, 0:43:28.640 --> 0:43:31.680 bring everyone, and he'll plan a holiday and invite. 0:43:31.280 --> 0:43:34.080 Everyth and then he doesn't obsess about it, right, he 0:43:34.120 --> 0:43:37.160 doesn't have the birthday drinks and note very carefully who 0:43:37.239 --> 0:43:39.960 do not show, and then create a little voodoo dole. 0:43:39.880 --> 0:43:41.120 Of them for the next six months. 0:43:41.120 --> 0:43:44.160 And what that has taught me generally is you're right. 0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:46.600 There will be people are who are like no, and 0:43:46.640 --> 0:43:49.960 you're like, yeah, they're not my kind of people. But broadly, 0:43:50.080 --> 0:43:54.080 people are incredibly happy to be invited, and you realize 0:43:54.800 --> 0:43:58.600 ninety percent of someone liking you is them feeling like 0:43:58.719 --> 0:43:59.479 you like them. 0:43:59.719 --> 0:44:01.360 Yeah, as soon as you. 0:44:01.320 --> 0:44:05.440 As and I find it in professional context, sometimes you 0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:07.839 sort of see someone you're like, uh, do you hate 0:44:07.880 --> 0:44:10.040 me for reasons I haven't quite worked out yet, Like 0:44:10.080 --> 0:44:12.000 I don't know, I don't know, did I say something 0:44:12.080 --> 0:44:14.320 or write something at some point that was stupid whatever. 0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:17.600 And as soon as you get a little hint that 0:44:17.680 --> 0:44:20.520 maybe that they are warm and that they do or 0:44:20.560 --> 0:44:22.759 somebody will say, oh I really liked this thing that 0:44:22.800 --> 0:44:25.640 you wrote or whatever, you're like, oh, amazing, And then 0:44:25.880 --> 0:44:29.400 it's this reciprocity of I like you because you like me. 0:44:29.880 --> 0:44:32.440 I like you because you don't hate me. And so 0:44:32.520 --> 0:44:36.400 I tried it. I try to go into social situations 0:44:37.280 --> 0:44:40.120 and because it's true, I think I pretty much like everybody. 0:44:40.120 --> 0:44:42.960 But here's an example of like how it's actually quite 0:44:42.960 --> 0:44:44.839 hard to do in practice when you have a group 0:44:44.880 --> 0:44:47.759 exercise class. So this group of people has been thrown 0:44:47.800 --> 0:44:49.600 into a room together and they don't know each other, 0:44:50.160 --> 0:44:52.360 and I can think about being in a group exercise 0:44:52.360 --> 0:44:54.120 class where there is a woman like this. 0:44:54.640 --> 0:44:55.319 It's not just men. 0:44:55.360 --> 0:44:57.200 We should say that because we're all doing about our 0:44:57.239 --> 0:44:58.960 husband's being like this, But there are women who are 0:44:59.000 --> 0:45:01.560 like this too. Yeah, and they just say hello to 0:45:01.640 --> 0:45:05.120 everyone who comes in, and they have a witty repartee 0:45:05.120 --> 0:45:06.920 with the instructor, and then at the end of the 0:45:06.920 --> 0:45:08.480 class they say, doing. 0:45:08.239 --> 0:45:10.040 Anything fun for the rest of your weekend. 0:45:10.080 --> 0:45:12.359 And I'm like looking at them, like, I don't know you, 0:45:13.440 --> 0:45:16.760 but there's a confidence to those people. 0:45:17.000 --> 0:45:19.399 I love those people, and you're right. 0:45:19.560 --> 0:45:22.360 It's like and then you think, going through the world 0:45:22.480 --> 0:45:24.120 like that, you must attract so much. 0:45:24.320 --> 0:45:26.360 It reminds me a bit about the mayor walks that 0:45:26.360 --> 0:45:28.800 we talked about Mayo R. I got a lot of 0:45:28.840 --> 0:45:30.759 feedback on that episode that people thought we were talking 0:45:30.760 --> 0:45:33.960 about horses mayors that we're talking about like people who 0:45:34.080 --> 0:45:36.680 run counsels who just got voted out in England if 0:45:36.680 --> 0:45:39.600 they were labor. So mayor walks are when you just 0:45:39.640 --> 0:45:41.880 walk around your neighborhood and you just act like the 0:45:41.920 --> 0:45:44.360 local mayor. And I've been trying to do that more. 0:45:45.120 --> 0:45:47.400 On the bus, I try and like get up my 0:45:47.480 --> 0:45:50.080 courage and I say good morning to the bus driver 0:45:50.280 --> 0:45:53.279 and that is should not be scary, but it is 0:45:53.320 --> 0:45:56.879 a little bit scary, and invariably they say good morning back. 0:45:57.000 --> 0:46:00.160 But you do think in terms of certain celebrities I 0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:04.680 guess have been painted as being cold or unlikable or whatever, 0:46:05.080 --> 0:46:07.040 it must be really hard to go through the world. 0:46:07.440 --> 0:46:08.920 I look at poor Megan. 0:46:09.280 --> 0:46:11.399 And I'm like, it would be really hard to meet 0:46:11.440 --> 0:46:15.200 somebody and shake their hand and know that they have 0:46:15.480 --> 0:46:19.400 been swimming in the swamp of negativity and characters. 0:46:21.000 --> 0:46:24.200 We've talked about it a lot like likability over indexes 0:46:24.360 --> 0:46:27.960 in importance for public facing females. Yeah, I don't like her. 0:46:28.000 --> 0:46:30.720 It's something you hear all the time about from women 0:46:30.840 --> 0:46:32.600 as well as manager. I just don't like her. I 0:46:32.600 --> 0:46:34.040 don't know what it is. I just don't like her. 0:46:34.440 --> 0:46:37.799 And that's a damning. They're done. They're dead to you, 0:46:38.360 --> 0:46:40.319 and it doesn't really matter what they do, because if 0:46:40.320 --> 0:46:42.640 you've made that decision, everything they do then looks like 0:46:42.680 --> 0:46:47.080 a try hard, fake attempt to win you back, and 0:46:47.120 --> 0:46:48.000 it's nonsense. 0:46:48.280 --> 0:46:51.120 And there was a really interesting comment on this post 0:46:51.200 --> 0:46:56.640 where a woman wrote, women often withdraw warmth as a 0:46:56.680 --> 0:47:01.000 protective mechanism because they've had scary interactions or in a 0:47:01.040 --> 0:47:03.640 way that men may not have had scary interactions with women. 0:47:03.719 --> 0:47:07.200 So if you've if you have been warm and it's 0:47:07.280 --> 0:47:10.359 and it's burnt you in that, perhaps somebody then didn't 0:47:10.400 --> 0:47:14.200 respect your boundaries, or you had a horrific experience with 0:47:14.239 --> 0:47:17.520 another human being, then you may not be as willing 0:47:17.560 --> 0:47:19.759 to put that forward, and that may come across as 0:47:19.760 --> 0:47:21.560 coldness when it's actually. 0:47:21.360 --> 0:47:24.440 That's why I'll share a lot of dudes say stuck up, 0:47:24.560 --> 0:47:27.160 aren't you when what they mean is not putting up 0:47:27.160 --> 0:47:28.160 with my shit exactly? 0:47:28.160 --> 0:47:30.239 Holy do you think just to wrap it up here? 0:47:30.280 --> 0:47:31.920 Because I want to know how I can. 0:47:31.800 --> 0:47:32.880 Be more warm like you? 0:47:33.160 --> 0:47:33.440 Yeah? 0:47:33.840 --> 0:47:34.399 I think that. 0:47:34.520 --> 0:47:36.640 Because I do think I'm more kind of like blue 0:47:36.680 --> 0:47:38.480 cheese if I was a person, I'm blue chee. 0:47:38.560 --> 0:47:39.160 You're a cat. 0:47:39.280 --> 0:47:41.239 But that's a good thing. 0:47:41.560 --> 0:47:42.359 That's a good thing. 0:47:43.000 --> 0:47:46.480 Do you actually consciously think when you meet someone you 0:47:46.480 --> 0:47:49.520 you're just like, yeah, you'll probably like me, Like, is 0:47:49.600 --> 0:47:51.080 that what's sort of going through your house? 0:47:51.160 --> 0:47:53.440 Not what kind of monster would I be if I 0:47:53.600 --> 0:47:56.320 marched around the world doing that? Of course I don't. 0:47:56.800 --> 0:48:00.759 I just genuinely think, like I've probably through my life, 0:48:00.800 --> 0:48:02.680 haven't we all that if you're nice to people, generally 0:48:02.680 --> 0:48:03.560 they'll be nice to you. 0:48:03.600 --> 0:48:03.799 Like that. 0:48:04.040 --> 0:48:05.640 It doesn't I don't have to like I don't want 0:48:05.640 --> 0:48:06.840 to sound like a dickhead, but I don't have to 0:48:06.880 --> 0:48:08.600 think about saying hello to the bus. 0:48:08.800 --> 0:48:12.120 No, that's you nice to people. And time is time. 0:48:12.440 --> 0:48:17.799 That's what we really really need. And dancing in short shorts, yeah, 0:48:18.160 --> 0:48:23.240 really helps to get people to like you. Out louders, 0:48:23.280 --> 0:48:25.840 thank you for being here with us on our Monday show. 0:48:25.960 --> 0:48:28.839 For dancing in short shorts with us, we appreciate you. 0:48:29.360 --> 0:48:31.360 If you would like to show us how much you 0:48:31.440 --> 0:48:33.839 love us, we would love it if you would vote 0:48:33.840 --> 0:48:37.320 for us in the Australian Audio Awards. You have until 0:48:37.360 --> 0:48:40.160 midnight on Thursday to vote for us in the People's 0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:41.879 Choice and we will put a link in the show 0:48:41.920 --> 0:48:43.160 notes of how to do it. 0:48:43.239 --> 0:48:46.200 And if you're anything like me, that means the time 0:48:46.239 --> 0:48:49.719 to vote is eleven fifty on Thursday night. 0:48:49.920 --> 0:48:53.040 Ten minutes, give yourself ten minutes if you're. 0:48:52.960 --> 0:48:55.000 Anything like Amelia, eleven thirty. 0:48:55.200 --> 0:48:57.200 If you're anything like me, thank you so much for voting. 0:48:57.280 --> 0:48:59.520 Yes, thank you so much for your vote. It's already 0:48:59.520 --> 0:49:02.839 been counting No. Eleven fifty and obviously, I know your 0:49:02.840 --> 0:49:06.000 interpreting mat is eleven fifty two. That should be enough 0:49:06.040 --> 0:49:07.520 time for you to get your vote in. 0:49:07.760 --> 0:49:10.440 I love that. Goodbye, bye bye. 0:49:11.440 --> 0:49:14.319 Mum May acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on 0:49:14.360 --> 0:49:16.080 which we have recorded this podcast.