Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. It's what
Speaker 1: women are actually talking about on Monday, the eleventh of May.
Speaker 1: I'm Holly Waynwright, I'm Klass Stevens. I'm Amelia Last And
Speaker 1: here's what's made our agenda for today. What happened in
Speaker 1: Australia on the weekend that has made every sitting politician
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a nervous.
Speaker 2: Week Plus some people are liked by everyone they meet.
Speaker 2: This is what they all do.
Speaker 3: And are you a time optimist? Holly and Claire Art
Speaker 3: and I want to find out how their brain works.
Speaker 1: But first look, I don't know about you too, but
Speaker 1: my algorithm was hijacked on the weekend by men dancing
Speaker 1: in short shorts.
Speaker 2: You're the one who introduced me to this. You're the
Speaker 2: one who triggered my algorithm with your story of Harry
Speaker 2: Styles in these little shorts.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, which was good because look, the global
Speaker 1: anxiety ain't getting any better, right, There's a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff going on out there. And enter one Harry Styles,
Speaker 1: who has released I think it's the third video from
Speaker 1: his new album. Now Harry is in a little bit
Speaker 1: of trouble at the minute because his concert tickets are
Speaker 1: really really expensive and they're not selling quite as well
Speaker 1: as one would hope. But he knew how to counteract
Speaker 1: this negative commentary, get the short shorts on release a
Speaker 1: video that is literally just you thrusting in a very pleasing,
Speaker 1: choreographed manner to a thirsty, thirsty crowd, which is what
Speaker 1: he did. Here is a little bit of the morale
Speaker 1: boosting Harry Styles video. Then next flick to next slide
Speaker 1: on my social media speed Taron Edgerton. Do you know
Speaker 1: who he is? I do?
Speaker 3: What's he been in Okay sing for a start, so
Speaker 3: anyone with small children knows exactly who Taron Egerton is.
Speaker 1: An animated animal that.
Speaker 2: Can you play Elton John that. I fell in love
Speaker 2: with him. I thought he was great in that.
Speaker 3: He's just so charming and talented. He's kind of like
Speaker 3: a Welshoe Jackman.
Speaker 1: He is rumored to be the next bond him and
Speaker 1: a Lordie duking it out to be. But anyway, he
Speaker 1: is also all over your feed dancing in short shorts
Speaker 1: because he's promoting this movie that's on Netflix called Apex. Yes,
Speaker 1: the way to get people to watch this movie is
Speaker 1: to dance in short shorts. I fell for this, watched
Speaker 1: this movie on the weekend.
Speaker 3: It's not good, so I was curious because it was
Speaker 3: filmed in the Blue Mountains. It has Charlie's Sarron, who
Speaker 3: I also love. Why is it not good?
Speaker 1: So it's a horror movie that isn't quite a horror movie,
Speaker 1: and it's a thriller that isn't quite a thriller. But
Speaker 1: it has an excellent promotional hook, and that is that
Speaker 1: Taran who plays Psycho.
Speaker 4: In it, not that'sycho, which is a bit of a
Speaker 4: red flat.
Speaker 1: It's not in the trailer he has revealed to be
Speaker 1: a psycho, so it's not a spoiler that he's a psycho.
Speaker 1: But he does this thing where his Charlie's Theron is
Speaker 1: there and he gets a big speaker out and he goes,
Speaker 1: you've got until this end of this song to get
Speaker 1: as far away from me as possible.
Speaker 3: Which is a good promise, if not a particularly realistic one.
Speaker 4: It's like how the Killer.
Speaker 3: And movies is always like I'm going to explain what
Speaker 3: I'm going to do to you at length.
Speaker 5: And give you an opportunity to get away.
Speaker 1: And so Tarana did impress his play and dances a lot.
Speaker 4: And it's like dark punk weird.
Speaker 2: It's a really weird dance and everyone's doing it on TikTok.
Speaker 1: Every bone's doing and.
Speaker 4: I did you see this movie?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I know you say it isn't good.
Speaker 1: Don't watch the movie. Just watch that bit. The movie
Speaker 1: is disturbing.
Speaker 4: Can even play a bad guy? He's such a good guy.
Speaker 1: He's really bad in it.
Speaker 2: But anyway, but he's got an ass. The accent is
Speaker 2: the Aussie accent bad?
Speaker 1: No, the ass accent is good, okay, but the reflection
Speaker 1: of Ozsie men in general is bad. Everybody Shallie's bumps
Speaker 1: into wants to do bad things to her. Sort of
Speaker 1: lots of outback cliches. But anyway, I digress. The way
Speaker 1: that Taran has been promoting this on Instagram is that
Speaker 1: he is doing that doing his dance in Little Short.
Speaker 4: Do you think he ever thinks to himself, Clark Gabill
Speaker 4: never had to do this?
Speaker 1: I reckon he does. But then I think he thinks
Speaker 1: this is where we're living now, this is where I live.
Speaker 1: So the Short Shorts is back and I'm not mad
Speaker 1: about it. And then, just to confirm my status as
Speaker 1: the most Basic of Bitch's Mega brand ads launched their
Speaker 1: World Cup ad. It's about to be the Football World Cup.
Speaker 1: Soccer Worlds to you people, but football.
Speaker 3: To me.
Speaker 1: It's going to be in Mexico. It's going to be
Speaker 1: America for World Cup, TM for World Cup sponsored by
Speaker 1: ADM starting for Timothy Shallo May because some of my
Speaker 1: basic obsessions also invaded this ad. That's a short film
Speaker 1: because I don't know there are no starving people in
Speaker 1: the world. Whatever they needed to spend one hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty million dollars on their at but it's got Challi May,
Speaker 1: Bad Bunny, close personal friend of mine, a young David
Speaker 1: Beckham and.
Speaker 4: It relies a young David.
Speaker 1: So the AI in a like mohawk era David Beckham
Speaker 1: because it's got all nineties nostalgia.
Speaker 4: Wreake me up when they do this with the Spice girls.
Speaker 1: Well they will, but what is it about the men
Speaker 1: in the shorts.
Speaker 2: It's just so sexy and it's so distracting and it's
Speaker 2: so wholesome. And on the weekend I was I was
Speaker 2: sitting at brunch and one person was like, how about
Speaker 2: the UFOs? And I was like, this is one of
Speaker 2: those moments where you see where everyone's algorithm is. Because
Speaker 2: you're talking about mine. I was like, not looking at
Speaker 2: the UFOs, I'm looking at some red little shorties, and
Speaker 2: I'm looking at Harry Styles doing a sexy little dance
Speaker 2: and it's just oh.
Speaker 5: It's the gender fluidity of it. It's the hm. I
Speaker 5: just really like it.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I don't care because Trump might have released
Speaker 1: the UFO files had it has released Bad Bunny. So
Speaker 1: speaking of things that some of us may need to
Speaker 1: be distracted from, you might be seeing headlines around today
Speaker 1: and yesterday that say things like Pauline Nation, Orange Country,
Speaker 1: Hanson's House, a political earthquake has rocked Australian politics. All
Speaker 1: of these superlatives are about what happened in Australia on
Speaker 1: the weekend. The results of a by election in regional
Speaker 1: New South Wales have It isn't an overstatement to say
Speaker 1: this changed the political landscape so Farah is an area
Speaker 1: of New South Wales, like an electorate in New South
Speaker 1: Wales that is roughly the size of South Career. Now,
Speaker 1: everyone keeps saying that, and I'll actually know how big
Speaker 1: South Career is, but it sounds big.
Speaker 5: It just reminds you how big Australia is.
Speaker 1: It really does. So it's a very big electorate. It
Speaker 1: has less than two hundred thousand people in it. It
Speaker 1: was Susan Lee's electorate, so the woman who until quite
Speaker 1: recently was the leader of the Liberal Party and who resigned,
Speaker 1: and when she resigned, she also resigned as an MP,
Speaker 1: so triggering a by election up for grabs. One Nation
Speaker 1: won the by election a man called David Farley. He
Speaker 1: is the first One Nation candidate elected into the Lower House.
Speaker 1: And if you're going but hold on Pauline Barnaby. So
Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson was elected in nineteen ninety six, but she
Speaker 1: was an independent and she didn't form One Nation till
Speaker 1: ninety seven, so she wasn't elected as a one Nation MP. Similarly,
Speaker 1: Barnaby Joyce now one of the most high profile One
Speaker 1: Nation faces. But of course, until very recently a natch
Speaker 1: a national right. So this is the first time that
Speaker 1: a one Nation MP has run and been elected to
Speaker 1: the Lower House One Nation MP. Right, And there's the
Speaker 1: reason why everybody's really nervous. The reason I say nervous
Speaker 1: is not necessarily obviously, if you're a one Nation support
Speaker 1: you're not nervous. You're excited about this, but the establishment
Speaker 1: is nervous because this is believed to be the first
Speaker 1: sign that things are really shifting in terms of what
Speaker 1: one nation can do to the right leaning politics. Here
Speaker 1: is a little grab of what Pauline Hansen said in
Speaker 1: Farah on Saturday night when she came up along with
Speaker 1: Barnaby to congratulate David Farley and take the seat.
Speaker 6: This is not only wind, It's a win for the
Speaker 6: rest of Australia. I'm seeing the sea of these proud
Speaker 6: Australian spaces here in front of me, hundreds of you,
Speaker 6: but millions are watching on in TVs now and I
Speaker 6: believe it's giving them hope to people to represent you,
Speaker 6: the people to get out country back.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: The thing that's interesting about this, you will have heard
Speaker 1: her say get your country back. You will have heard her,
Speaker 1: you know, make her claim there that lots of Australians
Speaker 1: will be excited. This is exactly what's got a lot
Speaker 1: of people nervous because ever since Pauline Hanson went into
Speaker 1: Parliament ninety six and made her famous maiden speech where
Speaker 1: she said that Australia was being swamped by Asians, she
Speaker 1: and One Nation have on and off for thirty years now,
Speaker 1: been dismissed a lot of times as a joke, as
Speaker 1: an extremist fringe, and it seems like this is the
Speaker 1: moment they go mainstream.
Speaker 4: And it took thirty years.
Speaker 1: Took thirty years.
Speaker 2: And what is also interesting is that Farah has been
Speaker 2: a safe coalition seat for like eighty years.
Speaker 1: Labor didn't even stand.
Speaker 5: The Labor I didn't have a candidate, which I think is.
Speaker 1: They know it's a conservative scene, but they didn't necessarily well,
Speaker 1: it's been obvious during this campaign that it was going
Speaker 1: to be a prime one nation pick. The thing that
Speaker 1: has people nervous about this being a one nation moment
Speaker 1: is that they've got serious funding One Nation now in
Speaker 1: the form of Gina Rehnhart, who we know has bought
Speaker 1: Pauline the plane that she is flying around very prominently in.
Speaker 1: They've got a very experienced politician on the books. Whatever
Speaker 1: you think about Barnaby Joyce, that man knows how politics works.
Speaker 1: He has been Deputy.
Speaker 4: Planned to know how pavements work.
Speaker 1: Now he doesn't know how he has been deputy Prime minister.
Speaker 1: He's only fifty nine. Like he understands the establishment so
Speaker 1: they have got a level of legitimacy, and they also
Speaker 1: have an electorate who is broadly very pissed off with
Speaker 1: the status quo Amelia. This feels to me like a
Speaker 1: trend to be taken very seriously if you look at
Speaker 1: what's happening in the UK, what has happened in America?
Speaker 3: What's your prim because something crazy happened in the UK, right, yes.
Speaker 1: So very very quickly over the weekend in the UK
Speaker 1: there was national council elections, so these are elections to
Speaker 1: elect your local representatives, like literal council seats all over
Speaker 1: the country and actually in Wales and Scotland as well.
Speaker 1: And what happened in that is that Labor, who are
Speaker 1: the sitting government, have lost more than a thousand councils.
Speaker 1: A lot is insane because they won, not unlike mister Albanesi,
Speaker 1: which might be why also he's a little nervous today.
Speaker 1: Not unlike the Australian Labor Party. The British Labor Party
Speaker 1: won in a landslide victory in the last election, which
Speaker 1: was less than two years ago. Right, but now have
Speaker 1: such an unpopular prime minister that there is broad talk
Speaker 1: he's not going to make it to the next election
Speaker 1: and reform. Who are basically Britain's one nation if you like.
Speaker 1: The far right Populist Party have taken more than a
Speaker 1: thousand seats in this election. Nigel Faraj, who is their leader,
Speaker 1: who again, like Pauline not to labor a comparison seen
Speaker 1: as a joke for a lot of years, is tipped
Speaker 1: to be the next legitimate Prime Minister of Britain. So no,
Speaker 1: really really, I mean a lot of experts so that
Speaker 1: won't happen and they will never win the seats that
Speaker 1: were always going to be firmly remain. But he is
Speaker 1: at the moment in the polls preferred PM. So this
Speaker 1: is the trend we're seeing around Europe. We've obviously seen
Speaker 1: what happened with trump Ism in America. It seems like
Speaker 1: a moment to be taken very seriously and not dismissed
Speaker 1: as something strange that happened in the regions. What do
Speaker 1: you say, Yeah, no.
Speaker 4: I think that's absolutely right.
Speaker 3: I was really interested to read and hear from one
Speaker 3: Nation voters in parah as to why they made this shift,
Speaker 3: because this is what happened, There was a shift towards
Speaker 3: one nation. What made them move and Rob Harris did
Speaker 3: some particular good reporting on this in the Nine Newspapers.
Speaker 3: A quote which stuck with me from this was someone
Speaker 3: said to Rob, we don't have any good politicians, so
Speaker 3: people are just saying F the lot of views. I think,
Speaker 3: and when I try and summarize the last decade of
Speaker 3: politics in Western democracies, I think F the lot of
Speaker 3: you is kind of a good slogan for it, because.
Speaker 4: What struck me.
Speaker 3: I mean, what's interesting is that the one Nation than
Speaker 3: now the member for Farah recently ran for the Labor parties.
Speaker 3: So what's clear is that this is not an ideological shift.
Speaker 3: I don't even think the term far right applies here.
Speaker 3: I think it's more people want to burn everything down
Speaker 3: and they are justifiably angry. You know. I read in
Speaker 3: the newspapers today that Australian inequality has now widened to
Speaker 3: a sort of unprecedented degree. The budget this week is
Speaker 3: going to address housing affordability, we're told, because that's become
Speaker 3: a huge problem for young people. There are lots of
Speaker 3: reasons to feel really angry, and there is a sense
Speaker 3: that the major parties have just been in denial about
Speaker 3: that sentiment.
Speaker 4: In the electorate.
Speaker 3: I get it, and obviously I'm not even speaking from
Speaker 3: a regional perspective, and those trends of inequality, lack of
Speaker 3: access to services the general and certification of our economy,
Speaker 3: these are trends being felt even more acutely in the regions.
Speaker 2: There's a really clever expert on polling data called Cause
Speaker 2: and I've been reading a lot of his analysis over
Speaker 2: what happened over the weekend, and he said the towns
Speaker 2: that swung the hardest to one nation were the ones
Speaker 2: that had a climbing median age. It's a little bit older,
Speaker 2: wealth going backwards, population shrinking, local economies and small businesses
Speaker 2: in decline, and that is something that just kind of
Speaker 2: wasn't addressed by other parties, whereas one nation was willing
Speaker 2: to acknowledge those issues and put a scapegoat in place
Speaker 2: for why those issues might exist. But Holly, I want
Speaker 2: to challenge what you're saying about Australia going in the
Speaker 2: same direction as the UK, because I do think it's
Speaker 2: really important to acknowledge that while there is this swing,
Speaker 2: the swing currently for one nation only exists against the
Speaker 2: Liberal National Party the because what's interesting is that Barnaby Joyce.
Speaker 2: After this, there's a clip of him saying Western Sydney,
Speaker 2: here we come. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: no no. And when you kind of really break down
Speaker 2: the polling data this Cosmarus does the most clever analysis
Speaker 2: where he's like, it's just not going to happen because
Speaker 2: there's a demographic wall. Where as soon as you get
Speaker 2: to Western Sydney, say, the makeup of that demographic is
Speaker 2: literally what one nation is running against.
Speaker 5: Now, as soon as you.
Speaker 2: Get to anybody, all the polling shows, as soon as
Speaker 2: you get to people who were not born in Australia,
Speaker 2: people who speak a language other than English at home,
Speaker 2: they are not their voting labor.
Speaker 3: I am not conventional wisdom. I think there are no
Speaker 3: rules anymore. Like that's certainly something that could have been
Speaker 3: said with certainty again ten years ago. But if you
Speaker 3: look at who really voted for Trump, who shifted to
Speaker 3: Trump in the latest selection in the US, I'm not
Speaker 3: saying that the countries are the same.
Speaker 4: I'm just pointing out an interesting data point.
Speaker 3: It was, in fact, people who were first generation migrants
Speaker 3: to the US who really shifted to vote for Trump. Now,
Speaker 3: you might think that's strange given that he also was
Speaker 3: not a fan of immigration.
Speaker 4: I just think it's an era of no rules.
Speaker 2: I think though, that those people who might be in
Speaker 2: their thirties or forties and are the parent are the
Speaker 2: children of people who immigrated to Australia. They remember Pauline
Speaker 2: Hanson in the nineties.
Speaker 5: They remember.
Speaker 1: You don't have to go back to the nineties, right,
Speaker 1: So it isn't that long ago that Pauline Hanson said
Speaker 1: that there were no good Muslims, for example. There is
Speaker 1: no question that she still is sticking to a lot
Speaker 1: of that outrageous rhetoric. But the thing is that's happening
Speaker 1: because I mean, I don't disagree with your point, but
Speaker 1: the thing it's a it's not great if the cities
Speaker 1: and the regions are completely ideologically separated, and it doesn't
Speaker 1: really work that way. The suburbs are massive and strolling
Speaker 1: like Australia is a diverse country, but it's still got
Speaker 1: this very traditional heartland. What are the things that one
Speaker 1: nation are running on a lot and so other liberals
Speaker 1: is that this is a rotten government, get us out
Speaker 1: of here. If people are broadly disaffected, then they blame
Speaker 1: the people in charge that's why all the COVID governments
Speaker 1: got thrown out. And it's complicated to a point. But
Speaker 1: what I think you're seeing with this mainstreaming of one
Speaker 1: nation is every little win that they make makes them
Speaker 1: more legitimate. They will pull themselves into line a little bit.
Speaker 1: In Pauline Hanson's speech on Saturday night, she said I'm
Speaker 1: not anti immigration, I'm just pro Australia, you know, all
Speaker 1: of that kind of stuff. They'll pull themselves into line
Speaker 1: a little bit on the most extreme parts of their conversation,
Speaker 1: and you're going to see a vote, which is what
Speaker 1: I think was echoed a lot by someone who was
Speaker 1: saying I'm not racist, but I vote one nation or
Speaker 1: in the same way that people do with Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: They excuse the craziness, they excuse, oh, he doesn't really
Speaker 1: mean it, all of those things. What you see often
Speaker 1: in populous leaders, this is true of Nigel Farage as well,
Speaker 1: is they're kind of covered like and Barnaby Joyce is
Speaker 1: Australia's version of this, and he always has been. They're
Speaker 1: covered like entertaining buffoons rather than anything more sinister. And
Speaker 1: so what I'm saying is I'm not suggesting that there's
Speaker 1: a you know, again, depending on your ideological point. I'm
Speaker 1: not suggesting that there's going to be a landslide that way,
Speaker 1: but I'm suggesting we take it very seriously and anyone
Speaker 1: who isn't a fan of that side of politics shouldn't
Speaker 1: dismiss this as either a regional issue, because people in
Speaker 1: regional Australia do get very jacked off with always being
Speaker 1: treated like second class citizens, no question, and also treat
Speaker 1: it not as some kind of jokey extremist aberration but
Speaker 1: actually something that is happening around the world that we
Speaker 1: should take as seriously as anyone.
Speaker 4: It's interesting that Pauline Hanson has revealed that she's considering
Speaker 4: moving from the Senate to the House of Representatives of
Speaker 4: the next federal election. I remember you said to me
Speaker 4: a few months ago, Holly, that you thought that Pauline
Speaker 4: Hanson had a decent shot at being prime minister. And
Speaker 4: of course you have to be in the House of
Speaker 4: Representatives to be prime minister. So shall we listen to
Speaker 4: her talk about That.
Speaker 6: Is under consideration, No decisions have been made, but still
Speaker 6: two years outside the election, so it is under consideration.
Speaker 1: I do think that, but I also think not that
Speaker 1: I want to sit around making predictions. Barnaby may actually
Speaker 1: be Pauline Hanson. As we were just saying thirty years
Speaker 1: she's seventy one years old, is she? Which is amazing
Speaker 1: because she's like the energy on the woman, right, whatever
Speaker 1: you think about her, the energy on the woman. Barnaby
Speaker 1: Joyce is only fifty nine. And I think that he
Speaker 1: is a political opportunist. He can speak to non city
Speaker 1: centric Australians in a way that nobody else is. He's
Speaker 1: a man, he has a big hat. I think I
Speaker 1: am genuinely. I just think that no political party should
Speaker 1: take this, should take their position for granted that Australia,
Speaker 1: just like Britain, just like America, with these two sides,
Speaker 1: it's not like that anymore. What they're seeing in that
Speaker 1: UK election is the vote splitting five six parties. So
Speaker 1: I think Australia that may well be something that we're
Speaker 1: seeing here too. I just think that, you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: we may have been quite complacent in Australia about falling
Speaker 1: into the sort of more extreme corners of politics because
Speaker 1: we've got compulsory voting. I know I've said that many
Speaker 1: times that we don't have to work quite so hard
Speaker 1: to enrage and engage the electric to get them out.
Speaker 1: But I think there is a complacency in that that
Speaker 1: we might be seeing chipping away.
Speaker 3: After the break. Are you a time optimist? Meryl Streep
Speaker 3: is in herf era, and I for one am here
Speaker 3: for it because she has now taken on a personal
Speaker 3: bugbear of mine. In an interview with Vanity Fair, she
Speaker 3: revealed Goldie Horn was constantly late just set when the
Speaker 3: two of them were filming Death Becomes Her. Here is
Speaker 3: a clip of Meryll talking about it, and then Goldie
Speaker 3: responding on the red carpet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I had a beef with her. What do
Speaker 4: you remember?
Speaker 7: Marilyn got fifteen minutes later to everything I do. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 7: it's unbelievable, but I think we got through that. I mean,
Speaker 7: we've been such good friends for so long. It says so,
Speaker 7: but this is her joke. So she said I was
Speaker 7: too late on the set. Maybe she's too early. I
Speaker 7: don't know. You know, sometimes when you're too early, you're
Speaker 7: still waiting for somebody who think, oh God, where the
Speaker 7: hell is Goldie.
Speaker 3: I can't believe she says that maybe she's too early.
Speaker 3: This is a problem with late people, they pass along
Speaker 3: the problem to early people. Holly Hudson and The Guardian
Speaker 3: wrote rather delightfully that you know how in that clip
Speaker 3: Goldie says that she's like, yeahen minutes late to everything.
Speaker 3: She was like, that's like when the doctor asks you
Speaker 3: how much you drink, Like you just have to multiply it.
Speaker 3: Fifteen minutes is not accurate, and poll references a Swedish
Speaker 3: term for the chronically late, which is actually far too
Speaker 3: nice for them, and that term is time optimists. These
Speaker 3: are people who believe a half hour journey can be
Speaker 3: made in fifteen minutes. Oh, these are people who believe
Speaker 3: that a bag for a weekend trip can be packed
Speaker 3: in five minutes when it actually takes twenty.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're both nodding.
Speaker 3: Claire, is time optimist a helpful label for you to
Speaker 3: explain why you are always late?
Speaker 4: Is that what's going on inside your head?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 4: Help me to understand it.
Speaker 2: Makes me feel a lot better about it, because I'm
Speaker 2: not an optimist about anything, and so thinking that I
Speaker 2: might be an optimist when it comes to time is lovely.
Speaker 2: In that article, the author wrote, would they manage to
Speaker 2: be on time for a date with Harry Styles exactly.
Speaker 5: And my answer to that is genuinely.
Speaker 4: No, genuinely no.
Speaker 2: It's almost like the more important something is the later it.
Speaker 2: So I read an article literally ten years ago that
Speaker 2: explained myself to me, and it actually started out with
Speaker 2: the idea of time optimism, and it's by Tim urban
Speaker 2: Weight but why it's my favorite blog of all time.
Speaker 2: But he kind of expresses the time optimism idea at
Speaker 2: the beginning and tries to be like, yeah, maybe I'm
Speaker 2: just really optimistic, and then he's like, now, let's be honest,
Speaker 2: I'm insane, and he breaks down the fact that he
Speaker 2: calls himself a chronically late insane person a clip a clip,
Speaker 2: and so he's like, there's okay lateness and not okay lateness.
Speaker 1: I agree with this.
Speaker 2: He's like, I fall into not okay lateness. And he's like,
Speaker 2: there are those who don't feel bad about it, and
Speaker 2: there are those who have self loathing. I have self loathing.
Speaker 2: That makes you a chronically late insane person and that's me.
Speaker 1: But isn't that okay lateness and not okay lateness? That
Speaker 1: is a situation specific? Because I believe that I believe
Speaker 1: there are things it's okay to be late for and things.
Speaker 1: It's not okay to be like it is ok to
Speaker 1: be late for high So I am a late person,
Speaker 1: but I'm selectively late. I'm rarely late for work, and
Speaker 1: I'm really true for this record.
Speaker 3: Would you be late to a date with Harry Styles?
Speaker 1: Of course not.
Speaker 5: Holy's like I've got my priorities.
Speaker 4: Maybe is not equipped there, She's not chronically.
Speaker 5: But you're not insane.
Speaker 1: I think in my other areas of my life, we
Speaker 1: are always fifteen minutes late. And my daughter, who is
Speaker 1: sixteen now, has internalized this and says to me all
Speaker 1: the time, we are always late for everything, and she
Speaker 1: hates it, right, and I try really hard to not be,
Speaker 1: but I just can't.
Speaker 4: Can I tell you the good news?
Speaker 3: Because your daughter is like that, she is going to
Speaker 3: be a punctual person in her whole life.
Speaker 1: She as a result, she probably is. But this is
Speaker 1: my defense. Okay, lateness. Here's an example. Right, I am
Speaker 1: meeting for We're meeting for drinks at seven, dinner at
Speaker 1: seven point thirty, I'm leaving. I won't leave the office
Speaker 1: till six thirty, even though I know it will take
Speaker 1: at least twenty five minutes depending on traffic, and I'm
Speaker 1: not ready yet, because any time between seven and seven
Speaker 1: fifteen is fine in that situation because you're in a bar,
Speaker 1: you've got your phone, you've got a drink, you don't
Speaker 1: care well, okay, lesness, right, you can order a drink.
Speaker 4: We need to go back to the phone after this.
Speaker 2: Y Yeah.
Speaker 1: If me and my daughter are going to pick up
Speaker 1: a friend to go shopping and we say ten thirty am,
Speaker 1: anytime before eleven is fine because she's at home, she's warm,
Speaker 1: she's fed, she's not It's fine, Like, that's okay lateness
Speaker 1: in my mind.
Speaker 4: I'm not nodding. I want the record to be I'm
Speaker 4: not nothing.
Speaker 1: Am I wrong that that's your lateness.
Speaker 3: There is one event to which you were permitted to
Speaker 3: be late, in fact, to which you were expected to
Speaker 3: be late, and that is dinner at someone's house. You
Speaker 3: must arrive seven to fifteen minutes after the desigated time.
Speaker 3: Definitely not early, and I will literally, because I'm on
Speaker 3: time everywhere. I will have to walk around the block
Speaker 3: a couple of times because it feels so wrong to
Speaker 3: be seven to fifteen minutes late. But that is what
Speaker 3: I will do, because that is the one event to
Speaker 3: which you are allowed to be late.
Speaker 1: Why are you so punctual, Amelia?
Speaker 3: Because I grew up in a household where we relate
Speaker 3: to things, and it made me really stressed. So I
Speaker 3: recognize your daughter's pain. I do want to talk about
Speaker 3: phones and how they have changed the game a little bit,
Speaker 3: because I think that for people who are on time,
Speaker 3: we care less now if people are late. That is
Speaker 3: my contention because before I used to have to stare
Speaker 3: into thin air and think about the rise of one
Speaker 3: nation instead of just scrolling my phone. Now I can
Speaker 3: just scroll my phone and I'm not bored, and so
Speaker 3: I don't care as much if people are late these days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you think that's true.
Speaker 4: Have you noticed that people are less annoyed at you
Speaker 4: these days?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that they might even be like, oh, it's okay,
Speaker 2: I'll get a little bit of work done, Like they'll
Speaker 2: like answer some emails. I'm giving you time back. Yes,
Speaker 2: I'm actually doing a favor here. But I will say
Speaker 2: as much as like, I am insane. I don't understand
Speaker 2: how time works. I will never understand how it works.
Speaker 2: How it just it goes. It goes so fast, it's
Speaker 2: just amazing. How quickly it goes? For everything?
Speaker 1: Always take long?
Speaker 5: Agree, then you think it will how every time?
Speaker 1: Just take fifteen minutes? Everything takes fifteen every.
Speaker 2: Time maps I get in the car and it's like
Speaker 2: it's going to take twenty minutes, and then next minute
Speaker 2: twenty eight minutes.
Speaker 6: This is on here.
Speaker 3: Since you have said that time takes time, I think
Speaker 3: that's your observation. I have to ask you about another
Speaker 3: equally obvious thing. Being late is anxiety, as you think,
Speaker 3: why are you living like that? Why are you not
Speaker 3: embracing the relaxed pace of someone who is on time?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so okay, it's two other things. One is
Speaker 2: that in the moment reality of I never I never
Speaker 2: want to stop what I'm doing. So it's actually like
Speaker 2: the actions.
Speaker 3: You're more present, that's what you're saying. You're just simply
Speaker 3: more present in the moment.
Speaker 2: No, it's that like, for example, and I'm finding this
Speaker 2: more and more like if I have to leave the office,
Speaker 2: I kind of twiddle around and like, don't I think
Speaker 2: it's genuinely the transition of leaving.
Speaker 3: I don't get that because all I want to do
Speaker 3: is leave the office and go to the bar to
Speaker 3: have the seven pm drinks.
Speaker 4: I do not understand.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just kind of like wander around in circles and
Speaker 2: then But then it's also I think that because I'm
Speaker 2: always late, this is it. Because I'm always late and
Speaker 2: I've never known what it's like to not be late,
Speaker 2: I assume I will be late, and I'm delaying that
Speaker 2: self loathing, yes, which which is a cycle. So I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I hate turning up late. So what I'll do is
Speaker 2: I'll procrastinate turning up, which makes me later.
Speaker 4: Okay, Okay, so it's insane.
Speaker 3: It's completely comment on that blog post that you mentioned
Speaker 3: that I thought was really interesting, the comment said that
Speaker 3: late people have to train themselves to trust themselves again
Speaker 3: because they've kind of like lost faith in their own word.
Speaker 3: So an example would be like if you say I'm
Speaker 3: going to get up at six point thirty, but you
Speaker 3: know that you actually always press the snooze button and
Speaker 3: actually get up at six forty five, so you kind
Speaker 3: of don't trust yourself.
Speaker 4: Do you think that's part of it?
Speaker 5: One hundred percent. I've spoken to my psychologists about this.
Speaker 2: It's like self efficacy, like the belief that you can
Speaker 2: do what you said you were going to do, and
Speaker 2: it's really depressing when that falls off, like the idea
Speaker 2: of I'll go to the gym and I'm like, I
Speaker 2: know I won't.
Speaker 5: I never hold my head because.
Speaker 4: It's like the self talk is no longer something you
Speaker 4: believe in.
Speaker 2: Yes, but then I think you can structure your life
Speaker 2: a bit where it's like, I am scared of other people,
Speaker 2: so I do being accountable to you don't like.
Speaker 1: Being in trouble.
Speaker 5: I don't like being in trouble.
Speaker 2: When you're late, you're in trouble, yeah, a lot. And
Speaker 2: it's like I have to kind of set my life
Speaker 2: up where I'm a little.
Speaker 4: Bit scared, yeah, right of other people.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I will say I reckon, I'm late less
Speaker 2: now than I used to be because I have genuinely
Speaker 2: slowed my life down a little bit.
Speaker 5: Yeah, from like my twenties.
Speaker 4: Your time optimistic, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just I genuinely have a bit more, which sounds
Speaker 2: sounds crazy because with a toddler, and I think maybe
Speaker 2: having a toddler being aware that everything really does take
Speaker 2: three times as long as you think it will because
Speaker 2: of her, But.
Speaker 1: Deeply believe in the optimism bit of it, though I
Speaker 1: think the late people are generally more she'd be right
Speaker 1: an they like, isn't that kind of the thing?
Speaker 5: Maybe today will be There are some.
Speaker 1: Things you cannot be late for. You can't be late
Speaker 1: for job interviews, you cannot be late for weddings. You
Speaker 1: cannot be late for you know something very specific, A
Speaker 1: friends ask you to support them at a medical appointment, Like,
Speaker 1: obviously you can't be late for those things. But I
Speaker 1: don't the people, the punctual people who just say all
Speaker 1: lateness is selfish. I can't subscribe to that.
Speaker 3: Can we talk a little bit about how you notify
Speaker 3: people of your lateness, because that's changed a bit with
Speaker 3: phones too, So some punctual people say, I don't care
Speaker 3: how late you are, as long as you keep me
Speaker 3: in the loop.
Speaker 4: I am not one of those people.
Speaker 3: I do not want to hear like the like status
Speaker 3: checks every five minutes, of the fact that the traffic
Speaker 3: is so bad and the fact that you couldn't find
Speaker 3: your shoe. I don't want to know. I just want
Speaker 3: to sit there in peace until you arrive. But but
Speaker 3: there's two camps, so do you find yourself having to
Speaker 3: navigate those two camps?
Speaker 2: I'm the same I don't want the update. I was
Speaker 2: having lunch with friends on Saturday and Jesse just went
Speaker 2: to the wrong venue and she was sending all these
Speaker 2: updates and I was like, I'm busy because I'm here,
Speaker 2: I don't and.
Speaker 5: Got the bus to the wrong place. I thought we
Speaker 5: were going here, just arrived.
Speaker 1: We're we're not checking in on your messages. I have
Speaker 1: a specific kind of time blindness where once i'm late,
Speaker 1: I can't look anymore at the time day. So you know,
Speaker 1: like say I said I was going to meet you
Speaker 1: at seven, and I stuck on the bus and it's traffic,
Speaker 1: and now it could be seventh, there could be seven, ten,
Speaker 1: it could be seven to twenty five. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: just going to be like, I can't look.
Speaker 4: So you're not telling them, You're not giving them the
Speaker 4: status update.
Speaker 1: Just all I'm going to say, and this I know
Speaker 1: none of this covers me in glory, is don't believe
Speaker 1: whatever status update I give you. So if my message
Speaker 1: is say five minutes, just know it's at least fifty
Speaker 1: because I'm going to be optimistic and I'm also going
Speaker 1: to lie to your face because I don't want to
Speaker 1: upset you. And then once I'm stuck on the bus
Speaker 1: and it's in traffic, I can't make it. That's the
Speaker 1: point of looking at the time. That's the way I
Speaker 1: feel about.
Speaker 2: It after the break. Some people are liked by everyone.
Speaker 2: They and their names.
Speaker 5: Are hollyway right, stop it, and this is apparently why.
Speaker 1: You're going to create a backlash.
Speaker 2: I came across an Instagram carousel last week and my
Speaker 2: thumb stopped immediately because it read some people are liked
Speaker 2: by everyone they meet. Researchers found out the one thing
Speaker 2: they all do, and I was like, cool, easy, I'll
Speaker 2: just solve this lifelong problem in an Instagram carousel, which
Speaker 2: is how I feel about most of my time on
Speaker 2: social media. Now, before I explain this in Layman's terms,
Speaker 2: I should probably give appropriate citation for those following along
Speaker 2: at home. This is based on a research study called
Speaker 2: Deconstructing the Rain of Error. Interpersonal warmth explains the self
Speaker 2: fulfilling prophecy of anticipated acceptance.
Speaker 4: You know, the academics were so pleased.
Speaker 2: I know Rain of error and everyone's like, what do
Speaker 2: you just do? It doesn't make any sense. But this
Speaker 2: is why we need Instagram carousels, because that is just
Speaker 2: a clunky title. Now, before I explain this in Layman's terms,
Speaker 2: I should probably give an appropriate citation. This is based
Speaker 2: on a research study called Deconstructing the Rain of Error.
Speaker 2: Interpersonal warmth explains the self fulfilling prophecy of anticipated acceptance
Speaker 2: by Stinson et al. In the Personality and Social Psychology bulletin.
Speaker 1: Does it say something about why everybody doesn't like you?
Speaker 1: That you had to give us all those citations before
Speaker 1: you start?
Speaker 2: Yes, because I'm like, there will be somebody listening who's like,
Speaker 2: I have a degree in psychology, and I think that
Speaker 2: you might be misrepresented.
Speaker 1: And also also I just need to also clarify that
Speaker 1: I don't think that.
Speaker 3: I should also hasten to add that I don't think
Speaker 3: that the secret to everyone liking you as being on time.
Speaker 3: Meryl Street was correct when she described herself as annoying.
Speaker 5: For me, it's not particularly warmth, which.
Speaker 2: So apparently people's expectations of acceptance often come to create
Speaker 2: the acceptance or rejection that they anticipate.
Speaker 1: Well, tell me what, let me explain that.
Speaker 2: So these researchers ran two separate studies, and again for
Speaker 2: those scientific people following along at home, one was correlational,
Speaker 2: but one was an experiment, so we've got the both
Speaker 2: the best of both worlds. So study one, their participants
Speaker 2: had to film a video introduction for a group. It's
Speaker 2: a pretty daunting thing to do, and when you get
Speaker 2: on a zoom and you're like, everyone hates my face.
Speaker 5: I hate my face.
Speaker 2: But those observers rated things like their confidence and their
Speaker 2: warmth and whether they actually liked them and in how.
Speaker 5: Mortifyed I know.
Speaker 2: And in that correlational study, warmth was the biggest predictor.
Speaker 1: Because that's not easy through the screen warmps.
Speaker 4: Isn't this basically what we do three times a week?
Speaker 1: Yeah, damn yeah, screens.
Speaker 2: So it wasn't it wasn't their confidence, it wasn't their mood,
Speaker 2: it wasn't kind of their energy.
Speaker 4: It was warmth.
Speaker 2: And then in study two single men had a face
Speaker 2: to face interaction with a woman and it was filmed
Speaker 2: and half those men were given a little queue beforehand
Speaker 2: that basically lowered the risk of rejection, so it warmed
Speaker 2: them up.
Speaker 5: So it might have been something.
Speaker 2: Like, oh, she likes guys like you or whatever, like
Speaker 2: something that was just a bit of you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2: Observers then watched these interactions and rated how likable the
Speaker 2: guy was and men who expected rejection, Men who hadn't
Speaker 2: been primed with anything nice were seen to be colder
Speaker 2: and they were less liked.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that makes sense observers.
Speaker 2: Whereas men who had received a bit of a queue
Speaker 2: to reduce the risk of rejection were warmer and better liked.
Speaker 2: So the researchers explain that when people feel uncertain about
Speaker 2: whether they'll be accepted, they kind of pull back.
Speaker 5: On that warmth.
Speaker 2: It's preemptive, yes, to minimize the potential rejection, because it's.
Speaker 1: Basically if you think, if you walk around thinking people
Speaker 1: are going to like you, you're going to be warmer.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 1: And if you walk around thinking that people are going
Speaker 1: to have a problem with you, you're going to give
Speaker 1: off more reserved cold energy.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 2: And the important part of the design of this study, Holly,
Speaker 2: is that that people some people are warm. It's not though.
Speaker 2: It's something that can be manipulated. So if I say
Speaker 2: to you Amelia, say she actually thinks you're really cool, Hollie,
Speaker 2: and she really likes you, You're going to be more
Speaker 2: likable to a million one hundred. If I say Amelia
Speaker 2: was bitching about you in the list this morning, you're
Speaker 2: going to be colder.
Speaker 5: So it's something that we can all it's.
Speaker 4: A switch like you're not born with it, yeah.
Speaker 5: Which I really like.
Speaker 1: But this see to me, that explains I mean, it
Speaker 1: illustrates a lot because people who generally are really good
Speaker 1: with people in inverted commas and go around the world
Speaker 1: being good with people. There is an element of privilege
Speaker 1: that they've got where people generally like them, right, and
Speaker 1: so they go into every situation thinking this will be fine,
Speaker 1: and that there's a whole lot of reasons in your
Speaker 1: life that that will will or won't be true, right
Speaker 1: that are very complicated. Like my mum always used to say,
Speaker 1: you should always be happy to see your kids. That
Speaker 1: was her only parenting rule. Really, it's like every time
Speaker 1: you see them from when they're a little baby till
Speaker 1: when they're fifty, smile, look happy to see them. Now,
Speaker 1: that's a very good piece of advice, easier to pull
Speaker 1: off for some people than other, depending on your life stresses.
Speaker 1: But I reckon the people who are walking into rooms
Speaker 1: going like I'm here are the people who probably their
Speaker 1: mum was always happy to see them, Like it's privilege.
Speaker 1: It's privilege in a way, or they're very good at
Speaker 1: faking it, and I reckon it's You're right, I reckon
Speaker 1: it comes from self esteem as you grow up, like
Speaker 1: just generally thinking that you're a worthy person.
Speaker 5: The other thing I thought about a lot with this.
Speaker 2: Is physical attractiveness, because I'm like, if you grow up beautiful,
Speaker 2: you probably get so much nice feedback that you then
Speaker 2: assume people are going to like you, and then because
Speaker 2: you assume they will, then they do.
Speaker 3: But that does that mean, like are you saying that, like,
Speaker 3: do you think every supermodel is incredibly warm? I'm not
Speaker 3: sure that's no. In fact, that's famously not true.
Speaker 2: No, but I think there is something, you know, how
Speaker 2: like they always say, like people who are physically attractive
Speaker 2: freaking and all.
Speaker 5: Of that stuff. I think it probably is.
Speaker 1: But I'm not pulling out a tiny violin for Kia
Speaker 1: Gerber here, but it probably it would change the way
Speaker 1: people related to you in lots of different ways, and
Speaker 1: they would not all be positive because people they call
Speaker 1: to you, Yeah, people, people would win famously And this
Speaker 1: isn't true, but it's a stereotype that women don't like
Speaker 1: pretty women. Also, they might see them as a threat. Also,
Speaker 1: men might see you and again this is stereotypically, but
Speaker 1: you could be they might be more predatory towards you. So,
Speaker 1: although there is truth to that, I don't think it
Speaker 1: could be like it's probably more are you okay looking
Speaker 1: like whatever your culture deems unoffensive? Yes, which again plays
Speaker 1: into that part of like, you know a lot of
Speaker 1: this you wouldn't have anything to do with, do you reckon?
Speaker 1: There are tricks that anyone could do to make them
Speaker 1: seem warmer to people. If that's indeed what your aim.
Speaker 2: Is, well, I mean I think that's a question for you,
Speaker 2: hollyween right, because every time we do any kind of
Speaker 2: thing on the podcast about like your favorite host or
Speaker 2: which told you are doing this, it's not exactly that.
Speaker 2: But there was a personality There was a personality test
Speaker 2: that was like which one of you and everyone wanted
Speaker 2: to be Holly and Jesse and Maya cried about it
Speaker 2: for months and at the live show.
Speaker 1: Just think it's because I'm threatened. No, that's what it is,
Speaker 1: show that person.
Speaker 3: I have one practical tip. I once met the founder
Speaker 3: of aop guy.
Speaker 4: He's a Melbourneian.
Speaker 3: We had a coffee once and to this day, I
Speaker 3: have never met someone who smells so good. And it
Speaker 3: wasn't just poper mint before the coffee. I don't know
Speaker 3: what it was, but I said, remember that smell, and
Speaker 3: I do think someone's smelling nice. Rihanna is another person
Speaker 3: who is very famous for smelling nice, and she seems
Speaker 3: very warm. I wonder if like manipulating old factory senses
Speaker 3: could be a sort of short to likability, because you
Speaker 3: want to be around people who smell nice, and.
Speaker 2: It probably makes you you going into a social situation
Speaker 2: being like, I know I smell nice.
Speaker 5: Yes, that must be really nice.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think I like. I don't mind a bit
Speaker 1: of aloofness. I quite like a bit of win me
Speaker 1: over when I meet someone. But what I hate the
Speaker 1: snobbery and I reckon you can tell there's a little
Speaker 1: bit of.
Speaker 3: Like.
Speaker 1: I've always impressed by people who who don't immediately because
Speaker 1: fake warmth is worse than cold, Like fake warmth is.
Speaker 1: The worst thing is people who are like Hay and
Speaker 1: they've never met you in all of those kind of things.
Speaker 1: But then people who are I think you can read
Speaker 1: quite quickly whether somebody is trying to assess whether or
Speaker 1: not they have to be nice to you, and that
Speaker 1: is my snobbery radar. So they're kind of going, do
Speaker 1: you seem important? Do you seem to is there something
Speaker 1: you could do for me? And I don't want a stereotype,
Speaker 1: but men in management positions are very good at this
Speaker 1: when you kind of you talk to them and you
Speaker 1: can tell that they are trying to get in the
Speaker 1: first few questions they ask you, they're trying to decide
Speaker 1: whether you're worthy of their warmth. The worst genuinely warm
Speaker 1: people are warm to everybody right and until you prove them,
Speaker 1: until you give them reason to.
Speaker 3: Not be And it's so true that you have to
Speaker 3: kind of short circuit the rejection part of your brain.
Speaker 3: So there was another study recently that I remember. The
Speaker 3: headline in the Atlantic was if you actually was in box,
Speaker 3: if you invite everyone to everything, you will be happier.
Speaker 3: And that was such a revelation for me because I'm
Speaker 3: not naturally someone who invites everyone to everything, but I'm
Speaker 3: married to someone who invites everyone to everything, and it's
Speaker 3: astonishing what happens because sometimes they do get rejected, like
Speaker 3: sometimes people are weird, Like it's not always the case
Speaker 3: that if you're warmed to someone, they will be warm.
Speaker 1: Give me an example of when you should invite everybody
Speaker 1: to everything like that, where.
Speaker 3: Well, what I've seen happen is my husband invites everyone
Speaker 3: to everything, and most people are kind of surprised and
Speaker 3: delighted and like they're like, sure, I'll come to dinner.
Speaker 4: I don't really know you, but that sounds really nice.
Speaker 3: Then there's this small percentage of people who will respond
Speaker 3: weirdly and he will be like, I don't know you,
Speaker 3: I'm not coming to dinner, you know, and like, instead
Speaker 3: of being completely discombobulated by that and going to cry
Speaker 3: in a corner, he just moves on.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, that's like my husband.
Speaker 2: He's gotten very into that lately, where he'll have birthday
Speaker 2: drinks and just invite everyone and be like and everyone,
Speaker 2: bring everyone, and he'll plan a holiday and invite.
Speaker 3: Everyth and then he doesn't obsess about it, right, he
Speaker 3: doesn't have the birthday drinks and note very carefully who
Speaker 3: do not show, and then create a little voodoo dole.
Speaker 4: Of them for the next six months.
Speaker 5: And what that has taught me generally is you're right.
Speaker 2: There will be people are who are like no, and
Speaker 2: you're like, yeah, they're not my kind of people. But broadly,
Speaker 2: people are incredibly happy to be invited, and you realize
Speaker 2: ninety percent of someone liking you is them feeling like
Speaker 2: you like them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, as soon as you.
Speaker 2: As and I find it in professional context, sometimes you
Speaker 2: sort of see someone you're like, uh, do you hate
Speaker 2: me for reasons I haven't quite worked out yet, Like
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know, did I say something
Speaker 2: or write something at some point that was stupid whatever.
Speaker 2: And as soon as you get a little hint that
Speaker 2: maybe that they are warm and that they do or
Speaker 2: somebody will say, oh I really liked this thing that
Speaker 2: you wrote or whatever, you're like, oh, amazing, And then
Speaker 2: it's this reciprocity of I like you because you like me.
Speaker 2: I like you because you don't hate me. And so
Speaker 2: I tried it. I try to go into social situations
Speaker 2: and because it's true, I think I pretty much like everybody.
Speaker 3: But here's an example of like how it's actually quite
Speaker 3: hard to do in practice when you have a group
Speaker 3: exercise class. So this group of people has been thrown
Speaker 3: into a room together and they don't know each other,
Speaker 3: and I can think about being in a group exercise
Speaker 3: class where there is a woman like this.
Speaker 4: It's not just men.
Speaker 3: We should say that because we're all doing about our
Speaker 3: husband's being like this, But there are women who are
Speaker 3: like this too. Yeah, and they just say hello to
Speaker 3: everyone who comes in, and they have a witty repartee
Speaker 3: with the instructor, and then at the end of the
Speaker 3: class they say, doing.
Speaker 4: Anything fun for the rest of your weekend.
Speaker 3: And I'm like looking at them, like, I don't know you,
Speaker 3: but there's a confidence to those people.
Speaker 5: I love those people, and you're right.
Speaker 2: It's like and then you think, going through the world
Speaker 2: like that, you must attract so much.
Speaker 3: It reminds me a bit about the mayor walks that
Speaker 3: we talked about Mayo R. I got a lot of
Speaker 3: feedback on that episode that people thought we were talking
Speaker 3: about horses mayors that we're talking about like people who
Speaker 3: run counsels who just got voted out in England if
Speaker 3: they were labor. So mayor walks are when you just
Speaker 3: walk around your neighborhood and you just act like the
Speaker 3: local mayor. And I've been trying to do that more.
Speaker 3: On the bus, I try and like get up my
Speaker 3: courage and I say good morning to the bus driver
Speaker 3: and that is should not be scary, but it is
Speaker 3: a little bit scary, and invariably they say good morning back.
Speaker 2: But you do think in terms of certain celebrities I
Speaker 2: guess have been painted as being cold or unlikable or whatever,
Speaker 2: it must be really hard to go through the world.
Speaker 5: I look at poor Megan.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, it would be really hard to meet
Speaker 2: somebody and shake their hand and know that they have
Speaker 2: been swimming in the swamp of negativity and characters.
Speaker 1: We've talked about it a lot like likability over indexes
Speaker 1: in importance for public facing females. Yeah, I don't like her.
Speaker 1: It's something you hear all the time about from women
Speaker 1: as well as manager. I just don't like her. I
Speaker 1: don't know what it is. I just don't like her.
Speaker 1: And that's a damning. They're done. They're dead to you,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't really matter what they do, because if
Speaker 1: you've made that decision, everything they do then looks like
Speaker 1: a try hard, fake attempt to win you back, and
Speaker 1: it's nonsense.
Speaker 2: And there was a really interesting comment on this post
Speaker 2: where a woman wrote, women often withdraw warmth as a
Speaker 2: protective mechanism because they've had scary interactions or in a
Speaker 2: way that men may not have had scary interactions with women.
Speaker 2: So if you've if you have been warm and it's
Speaker 2: and it's burnt you in that, perhaps somebody then didn't
Speaker 2: respect your boundaries, or you had a horrific experience with
Speaker 2: another human being, then you may not be as willing
Speaker 2: to put that forward, and that may come across as
Speaker 2: coldness when it's actually.
Speaker 1: That's why I'll share a lot of dudes say stuck up,
Speaker 1: aren't you when what they mean is not putting up
Speaker 1: with my shit exactly?
Speaker 3: Holy do you think just to wrap it up here?
Speaker 3: Because I want to know how I can.
Speaker 4: Be more warm like you?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I think that.
Speaker 3: Because I do think I'm more kind of like blue
Speaker 3: cheese if I was a person, I'm blue chee.
Speaker 1: You're a cat.
Speaker 4: But that's a good thing.
Speaker 1: That's a good thing.
Speaker 3: Do you actually consciously think when you meet someone you
Speaker 3: you're just like, yeah, you'll probably like me, Like, is
Speaker 3: that what's sort of going through your house?
Speaker 1: Not what kind of monster would I be if I
Speaker 1: marched around the world doing that? Of course I don't.
Speaker 1: I just genuinely think, like I've probably through my life,
Speaker 1: haven't we all that if you're nice to people, generally
Speaker 1: they'll be nice to you.
Speaker 3: Like that.
Speaker 1: It doesn't I don't have to like I don't want
Speaker 1: to sound like a dickhead, but I don't have to
Speaker 1: think about saying hello to the bus.
Speaker 4: No, that's you nice to people. And time is time.
Speaker 1: That's what we really really need. And dancing in short shorts, yeah,
Speaker 1: really helps to get people to like you. Out louders,
Speaker 1: thank you for being here with us on our Monday show.
Speaker 1: For dancing in short shorts with us, we appreciate you.
Speaker 1: If you would like to show us how much you
Speaker 1: love us, we would love it if you would vote
Speaker 1: for us in the Australian Audio Awards. You have until
Speaker 1: midnight on Thursday to vote for us in the People's
Speaker 1: Choice and we will put a link in the show
Speaker 1: notes of how to do it.
Speaker 2: And if you're anything like me, that means the time
Speaker 2: to vote is eleven fifty on Thursday night.
Speaker 5: Ten minutes, give yourself ten minutes if you're.
Speaker 1: Anything like Amelia, eleven thirty.
Speaker 4: If you're anything like me, thank you so much for voting.
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you so much for your vote. It's already
Speaker 2: been counting No. Eleven fifty and obviously, I know your
Speaker 2: interpreting mat is eleven fifty two. That should be enough
Speaker 2: time for you to get your vote in.
Speaker 1: I love that. Goodbye, bye bye.
Speaker 2: Mum May acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on
Speaker 2: which we have recorded this podcast.