Speaker 1: Your journey is your journey, and the next step will
Speaker 1: become clear when it's time to become clear. You can't
Speaker 1: have growth without the darkness. You can't have resilience without
Speaker 1: sitting on the depths of that dark floor. Like it
Speaker 1: for so long, I'd hold onto this one idea of success,
Speaker 1: and I'd hold onto it so tightly that it was
Speaker 1: almost like a tunnel vision. But when you do that,
Speaker 1: you just become so blind to all the opportunities that
Speaker 1: present themselves along the path. What is meant for us finds.
Speaker 2: Us welcome to the seas The Yay Podcast. Busy and
Speaker 2: happy are not the same thing. We too rarely question
Speaker 2: what makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest,
Speaker 2: but rarely we play, and often don't realize there's more
Speaker 2: than one way. So this is a platform to hear
Speaker 2: and explore the stories of those who found lives. They
Speaker 2: adore the good, bad and ugly, The best and worst
Speaker 2: day will bear all the facets.
Speaker 3: Of seizing your yay.
Speaker 2: I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah. A lawyer turned
Speaker 2: funentrepreneurs wapped the suits and siels to co found matcha
Speaker 2: Maiden and matcha Milk bar Cza is a series of
Speaker 2: conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the
Speaker 2: self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm no stranger to a fangirl moment, but
Speaker 2: this one is really up there. Having followed her journey
Speaker 2: for over a decade and poured over her fabulous new
Speaker 2: book of Gold and Dust, our guest this week is
Speaker 2: none other than the wonderful Samantha Wills. You may have
Speaker 2: had parts of how she grew her multimillion dollar global
Speaker 2: eponymous jewelry label from her kitchen table and the Bondeau
Speaker 2: markets at just twenty one years old, to a string
Speaker 2: of stores from Singapore to New York and the likes
Speaker 2: of j lo Eva Mendez and Katie Perry clamoring to
Speaker 2: wear her jewelry for any aspiring business owners listening. She
Speaker 2: has so much to share about the twelve years it
Speaker 2: took her to an overnight success, covering the scale up,
Speaker 2: brand growth, community building, and taking things one chapter at
Speaker 2: a time. A brilliant new book also reveals some of
Speaker 2: the more character building shitter bits, as you know I
Speaker 2: like to call them, along the way from having eighty
Speaker 2: thousand dollars of debt, burnout, personal turmoil, and crippling imposter syndrome.
Speaker 2: I didn't even realize that Samantha was a TAFE double dropout.
Speaker 2: But what I found most fascinating about her story is
Speaker 2: that just when Samantha Whiel's Jewelry had truly solidified itself
Speaker 2: as an undeniable global success, Samantha closed the business and
Speaker 2: walked away from it all. For someone as fascinated as
Speaker 2: I am, by redefining the metrics by which you measure
Speaker 2: your life, knowing when your jigsaw puzzle needs a shakeup,
Speaker 2: and choosing happiness before success, this was such an engaging
Speaker 2: chat I barely even knew where to start, particularly after
Speaker 2: reading her fabulous book. I hope it's as enlightening and
Speaker 2: eye opening for you guys as it was for me.
Speaker 2: Samantha Wills, Welcome to cz the A. I can't believe
Speaker 2: this day has arrived.
Speaker 1: Oh it's such a trick to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I have followed you for the longest time and you
Speaker 2: have had such a big influence on my personal journey,
Speaker 2: and reading your book brought me to tears. I was
Speaker 2: just telling you, it's like we've been. You took us
Speaker 2: through every single moment, and I just wish I could
Speaker 2: hug you right now.
Speaker 1: So sweet, thank you. As I said, I think the
Speaker 1: bits that you cried out are probably the ones that
Speaker 1: I cried out writing, So I do think there's a
Speaker 1: connection for sure.
Speaker 2: Well, it's an absolute privilege to have you here again.
Speaker 2: Just saying some maatta wheels, welcome, Dizzia is something I
Speaker 2: never thought I would be able to say, so.
Speaker 3: I'm absolutely thrilled.
Speaker 2: And I was saying to you before we started recording
Speaker 2: that I almost wish I hadn't read the book because
Speaker 2: now I don't know where to start. I'm like, there's
Speaker 2: so much stuff to talk about, but I do start
Speaker 2: every episode with a little icebreaker to ask everyone what
Speaker 2: the most down to earth thing is about them, to
Speaker 2: break through the often really glossy surface of our projected identities,
Speaker 2: and especially with the successes as remarkable as your own.
Speaker 2: I love that the intro of the book right up
Speaker 2: front acknowledges that nothing faces the sun all the time,
Speaker 2: and there's a whole I think you're referred to it
Speaker 2: as a parallel experience alongside the outer reality that the
Speaker 2: news media always focus on and that you know get
Speaker 2: mentioned in your bio, but there's so much of a
Speaker 2: human element to that behind the scenes. So what's something
Speaker 2: really human and normal and daggy about you?
Speaker 1: Question I think for me at this point, which I
Speaker 1: didn't think would be still a thing, but is imposter syndrome.
Speaker 1: I think it's gotten worse throughout my career in almost
Speaker 1: two decades into my career. Now, the imposter syndrome, it
Speaker 1: sits so closely to me. It's sitting, you know, to
Speaker 1: my left right now, and I'm like, just give me
Speaker 1: a moment. So it's something that I used to say
Speaker 1: it haunts me, but I think I've found a way
Speaker 1: to live alongside it. But yeah, it's really prevalent in
Speaker 1: my life.
Speaker 2: Gosh, it's just extraordinary because people looking at what you've
Speaker 2: done and what you've achieved, and the things you've you know, experienced,
Speaker 2: and the people you've met, I think it would be
Speaker 2: so easy to assume that that never affects your life,
Speaker 2: that that kind of feeling of self doubt never touches you.
Speaker 3: But I think what this.
Speaker 1: Arms around me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I love that you've phrased it as that
Speaker 2: you've learned to live alongside it because once I thought,
Speaker 2: you know, when I first sort of moved out of
Speaker 2: corporate and into it an industry I knew nothing about.
Speaker 2: I thought that as time went on, like I should
Speaker 2: be stripped of those feelings, I.
Speaker 3: Should outgrow them.
Speaker 2: And when I wasn't, I was like, there's something wrong
Speaker 2: with me, Like do I need a psychology or I
Speaker 2: definitely need a psychologist, but do I need another psychologist
Speaker 2: like a self doubt psychologist or But I think what
Speaker 2: I've learned is that actually it's a good sign that
Speaker 2: you're not complacent, that you're you still care about what
Speaker 2: you're doing, and that you're continually stepping outside of the
Speaker 2: comfort zone. But rather than ever wishing for it to
Speaker 2: go away, it's more just learning to acknowledge it and
Speaker 2: know what to do with it, rather than let it
Speaker 2: kind of control your life.
Speaker 1: And that's a beautiful way to look at it. And
Speaker 1: I never really looked at it that way. I think
Speaker 1: for me, I tried so long to get rid of it.
Speaker 1: I was like, I need this out of my life,
Speaker 1: and the energy that I was exerting to try and
Speaker 1: beat imposter syndrome was just exhausting, and I just continually
Speaker 1: felt like I was failing. So I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm going to live along side and then to find
Speaker 1: a way to live alongside you. It's like I see you,
Speaker 1: I get it, give me, and you just need the
Speaker 1: five minutes or whatever whatever that little starting timeframe is,
Speaker 1: because what imposter syndrome really is is just a procrastination
Speaker 1: anchor right once you start. You know when I say that,
Speaker 1: because I even give imposter syndrome a character in my
Speaker 1: book is it is that prevalent to me. But what's
Speaker 1: to start on the task? Whatever it is, They kind
Speaker 1: of quietened down a bit, so it's acknowledging and then
Speaker 1: and moving forward anyway, and then yeah, I find they
Speaker 1: shush down a bit them.
Speaker 2: And I also love that you give quite a few
Speaker 2: different things a name in your book, because I think
Speaker 2: that's also actually it's a really good like it's funny,
Speaker 2: but it's also a really good strategy to put a
Speaker 2: name on things so that then you could acknowledge them
Speaker 2: more quickly and then get rid of them. But one
Speaker 2: of the things I thought was the most relatable along
Speaker 2: the way of your business journey and that whole like,
Speaker 2: from the outside, it looks like you've got this massive
Speaker 2: organization and killing it every day. But your account's department
Speaker 2: lady was Renee, who was you with a different voice?
Speaker 1: Really and truly the lies that I still tell, Yeah then,
Speaker 1: like we even now, I'm like it was it was
Speaker 1: just you, like stop stop the web of lies. It's
Speaker 1: such an ingraine. Why And I do a lot of
Speaker 1: public speaking out I was like, this saw what our
Speaker 1: website looked like. I'm like, let me rephrase that. This
Speaker 1: is what my website looked like. And Renee, it was
Speaker 1: someone that I made up completely because I did not
Speaker 1: know how to.
Speaker 2: I love that so much. What an amazing tactic. It's
Speaker 2: just so clever. But so I feel like every business
Speaker 2: owner listening is like, yes, we all have done a Renee,
Speaker 2: Like that scenario has definitely happened.
Speaker 1: Oh I had a Cassie, So it's like I had
Speaker 1: an Angela accounts receivable people out in the ether.
Speaker 2: I had it just a kind regards, like the account's
Speaker 2: department was in our signature and it didn't have a name.
Speaker 2: It was just the department and I just write kind
Speaker 2: regards and then leave it because like I don't know
Speaker 2: what her name is or his name, although I'll forget
Speaker 2: the lie. So the first proper section of the podcast
Speaker 2: is your WEIGHTA and that is going through as you know,
Speaker 2: as we've touched on all the chapters that don't necessarily
Speaker 2: get as much airtime as the you and the chapter
Speaker 2: you are now. And I think people walk into your
Speaker 2: life at often encounter you at the highest moments of
Speaker 2: your life, when you know what your purpose is and
Speaker 2: you're clear in your direction and you do have a
Speaker 2: lot of success under your belt, but they can so
Speaker 2: easily forget that everyone started somewhere. Most of the time,
Speaker 2: it wasn't with money, or with a foot in the door,
Speaker 2: or with an idea of where you were going to
Speaker 2: end up. And I find that tracing through all the
Speaker 2: all the you know, you talk about gold and dust
Speaker 2: in the book. You get a lot of the gold moments,
Speaker 2: but it's the dust moments that people find really breakthrough.
Speaker 2: Like I had no idea you were a TAFE double dropout.
Speaker 2: That's the last thing I think people would imagine from
Speaker 2: your story.
Speaker 3: So take us back all the.
Speaker 2: Way too young to man for being raised in Port mcquarie,
Speaker 2: what school was like, and what you thought your future
Speaker 2: would look like back then, and then take us through
Speaker 2: each chapter two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so well, I graduated high school in nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 1: which makes me sound like I'm from a whole another century.
Speaker 1: You know. Growing up, it was again a time really
Speaker 1: before the internet, Like we had a dial up internet
Speaker 1: at home. The school I went to, poor high school
Speaker 1: just had two internet computers which were for the computer class.
Speaker 1: And so growing up, all I knew is what I saw.
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't have this digital portal into the
Speaker 1: rest of the world at that time. It just wasn't
Speaker 1: a thing. So what I saw and what I knew
Speaker 1: was very blue collar, hard working people. And I didn't
Speaker 1: even know that jewelry design could be a career. I
Speaker 1: thought that, you know, you got a job, and I thought,
Speaker 1: really smart people go to university and have careers, So
Speaker 1: do you know doctors and lawyers? And that was never me.
Speaker 1: I was always very, very creative, and so I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm just going to get a job and
Speaker 1: I'll my creativity, you know, things that I like to
Speaker 1: do on the weekend. You know, there was a time
Speaker 1: that I went through a phase where I was like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be a a dolphin trainer, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I look right now, that's awful. Firstly, it was terrible science,
Speaker 1: So I'm like, I don't know why I thought that
Speaker 1: was going to be a career path for me, but
Speaker 1: it was. It was very insular, you know. I don't
Speaker 1: say that about in a small town way, even though
Speaker 1: you know, small town was where I learnt my sense
Speaker 1: of community and things like that. But all I knew
Speaker 1: was what I saw. So finishing high school, I didn't
Speaker 1: get a UAI, so I was never going to go
Speaker 1: to university and I just got a job at our
Speaker 1: good Proud to the jewelers in Port Central shopping Center.
Speaker 1: I was there for just over a year and it
Speaker 1: was the biggest education on jewelry I think, you know,
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to me that that was going to be my
Speaker 1: career path. Worn't so much there. And then moved to
Speaker 1: Sydney when I was twenty and my best girlfriend and I, Melanie,
Speaker 1: lived together, and as you said, it was a double
Speaker 1: tape dropout and I retour job and then started making
Speaker 1: jewelry again in the night times and just as a hobby.
Speaker 1: And then it started to get interesting. Melanie had bring
Speaker 1: her friends home from work and they're like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: can I buy this would you bring all this jewelry
Speaker 1: over to my house. I'll invite my friends over and
Speaker 1: kind of this organic party plan almost like remember like
Speaker 1: Avon or Neutraumatics, like your mum. Yeah, it's a bit
Speaker 1: like that, but with jewelry. And then friends were like,
Speaker 1: you should sell it down at Onondo Beach Markets, which
Speaker 1: at the time was a really big watchpad for of
Speaker 1: Australian designers. And I was like, no one's going to
Speaker 1: pay money for you know, it's something I've made on
Speaker 1: my dining table. And so it took a few weekends
Speaker 1: down at one Markets and it started going well, and
Speaker 1: there was all these kind of green lights pointing towards it,
Speaker 1: but I was still in such a fierce state of like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: this is just a hobby. This can't be a job.
Speaker 1: You can't enjoy your job this month thing. So that
Speaker 1: was my early, early experience with it.
Speaker 2: It's really interesting that you said that, because I think
Speaker 2: so many of us do kind of think if we're
Speaker 2: having a really good time, we're like, oh, this can't
Speaker 2: be a job. Someone's going to come and tell me, no,
Speaker 2: this is too enjoyable, this is too much fun. Work
Speaker 2: has to have some kind of painful element to it.
Speaker 2: But it's also even more interesting that, Like, I think
Speaker 2: it's so impressive to walk away from what's conventional and
Speaker 2: what career paths, you know, the five careers you think
Speaker 2: exist when you're at UNI. But to do it in
Speaker 2: an age where there isn't the social media proliferation of
Speaker 2: the unconventional pathway. You were still using fax machines at
Speaker 2: the time. That's even more impressive because it was so
Speaker 2: far against the grain then to start forging your own pathway.
Speaker 2: It's much more trendy now, but back then, I mean,
Speaker 2: I can imagine that people would forget that you ever
Speaker 2: had a period of dropping out of Tafan wondering what
Speaker 2: you were going to do with your life. But I
Speaker 2: think that's even more exciting that that is where you
Speaker 2: came from and you still ended up finding a way
Speaker 2: from beating classes in primary school. I'm sure you didn't
Speaker 2: think you'd be a jewelry tycoon later in your life.
Speaker 1: Nothing that, no, But I think too, I often think
Speaker 1: about the comparison if I was starting out now and
Speaker 1: how that would look. And I think, obviously there's so
Speaker 1: many buses to you know, how accessible I think entrepreneurialism
Speaker 1: is even now. I remember my first website I paid
Speaker 1: someone like six thousand dollars to it was almost like
Speaker 1: a fantastic homepage in two thousand and four. Now you
Speaker 1: can jump on to square space and you launch it
Speaker 1: in twenty four dollars a mile or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: So I think, well, and you know, you can build
Speaker 1: business on Instagram and things, but it can also be
Speaker 1: like especially on the social media front, like that Compare
Speaker 1: and Despair where you're like, oh my gosh, am I
Speaker 1: not doing it right? Like it's instant. So I think
Speaker 1: there's pros and cons to both eras of it. But
Speaker 1: I think it's definitely something to be really mindful of.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm very guilty of the comparents dispairied and
Speaker 1: to this day and the rabbit holes that social media
Speaker 1: can take you down. Is a slippery slope.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, I think, yeah, it's such a double edged
Speaker 2: sort of being able to democratize business in a way
Speaker 2: that anyone can sort of enter.
Speaker 3: There's really low barriers to entry.
Speaker 2: But you're right, there are also a lot of spiral
Speaker 2: areas that we all have to be mindful of. But
Speaker 2: it's also something I love hearing about these kind of
Speaker 2: earlier chapters and businesses that did start on a dining
Speaker 2: table or you know, at the one day markets. Now
Speaker 2: it sounds a bit cliche, but that's because that's how
Speaker 2: a lot of businesses do start, not expecting some big
Speaker 2: grand plan was going to eventuate, and not having any
Speaker 2: idea what would come next. But when you're in that chapter,
Speaker 2: you don't know that the dots are going to connect
Speaker 2: later on. How did you just keep rolling with the punches?
Speaker 2: How do you keep yourself like for anyone else who's
Speaker 2: earlier in their journey, when you are just at the
Speaker 2: market thinking is this ever going to get better? Am
Speaker 2: I going to grow? What did keep you going? And
Speaker 2: one of the people we had on the podcast last
Speaker 2: week is Holly Ransom. She's a full Bright scholar and
Speaker 2: Harvard Grudge is amazing, but her big message is just
Speaker 2: put yourself where lightning will strike, Like there's no conventional
Speaker 2: way to get to the top. You just have to
Speaker 2: be available and hunt down connections like nothing happens for you,
Speaker 2: You've got to make it happen. So how did you
Speaker 2: go from the markets to New York Fashion Week?
Speaker 1: Yeah? You know, in a similar way, but I would
Speaker 1: say that it's you can't really see the next step,
Speaker 1: you kind of going blind, and it is blind faith
Speaker 1: for a reason. And I talk about often, you know,
Speaker 1: standing it a crossroads is very significant to my journey,
Speaker 1: as I shar in the book, but I talk about
Speaker 1: it in a broader sense where every time we're at
Speaker 1: a crossroads, be a huge life decision or you know,
Speaker 1: a small decision we have to make day to day.
Speaker 1: We're standing at that crossroads and choosing between essentially fear
Speaker 1: and faith. So the faith is obviously the leap of faith.
Speaker 1: We're like, oh, man, I don't know what that next
Speaker 1: step is, but you know it feel our soul is
Speaker 1: always trying to push us down our destined paths. So
Speaker 1: I talk about destiny and fate. I'm like, destiny is
Speaker 1: what your highest potential, That's where your soul is always
Speaker 1: nudging you to go. And then the decision of fear
Speaker 1: is like, well, you know, fear is very much the
Speaker 1: rise of familiarity. It's like, well, if you step down
Speaker 1: the path, you don't know what if X, Y and
Speaker 1: Z happens, And it's always like the the bad list
Speaker 1: of things that could happen it's never like, well, imagine
Speaker 1: the possibilities that could happen. So I think you know,
Speaker 1: when we are at any crossroads or juncture there, it's
Speaker 1: you know, the familiar, you already know it's time to
Speaker 1: step for I don't see that like I mean, it's
Speaker 1: one of the hardest things we'll ever do in our
Speaker 1: life throughout it. But you guess said about the where
Speaker 1: lightning strikes, it's going to strike on the new path,
Speaker 1: like you know what the current path holds. So put
Speaker 1: yourself in positions and you might not ever be able
Speaker 1: to see more than an inch in front of you,
Speaker 1: but you've got to take that inch that is, you know,
Speaker 1: and then it turns into another inch and then it
Speaker 1: keeps going. But yeah, you're not going to take the
Speaker 1: path less traveled and know how it ends up. It's
Speaker 1: just not how it works.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: I always come back to that analogy with the staircase,
Speaker 2: like you don't have to see the whole staircase. In fact,
Speaker 2: you're never going to see the whole staircase at the bottom.
Speaker 2: Only when you get to the top, where you look
Speaker 2: back and see that all those little steps that didn't
Speaker 2: make sense at the time, you just have to take
Speaker 2: one step and then trust that what happens at that
Speaker 2: step is going to show you what the next step is.
Speaker 1: And you might have to be on that step for
Speaker 1: a long time, you know. I think it's releasing that
Speaker 1: timeline as well, being like, well, you know she got
Speaker 1: there on this time and she did this, or it's
Speaker 1: like no, your journey is your journey, and the step
Speaker 1: will become clear when it's time to become clear.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, And I think the probably in some careers,
Speaker 2: like in my I call it like past me and
Speaker 2: present me me when I was really risk averse and
Speaker 2: I was living in a corporate world where everything was
Speaker 2: like five year, ten year plan.
Speaker 3: When I did know.
Speaker 2: Exactly what the staircase looked like, it removed the possibility
Speaker 2: of a better staircase coming because I just made no
Speaker 2: room for anything else. I was like, this is all
Speaker 2: that's going to happen, and then you're not open to
Speaker 2: I love the way you ordered it. I think you
Speaker 2: said cosmic choreography, like the stars have this big, great
Speaker 2: plan and something else you said in the book that
Speaker 2: I wrote down, and I want to like design it
Speaker 2: into something like you put in a frame because it
Speaker 2: was just so beautiful. The universe only has three answers
Speaker 2: for us, Yes not right now, or I have something
Speaker 2: better in store for you. So even along the staircase,
Speaker 2: the shit bits that feel like you're tumbling backwards down
Speaker 2: the staircase, I know you've been through phases of having
Speaker 2: eighty thousand dollars debt or you know, having your greatest
Speaker 2: ideas these beautiful wooden boxes being poo pooed on because
Speaker 2: no one thought that that would work. But you know
Speaker 2: those are the things that propel you forwards again. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just love love that analogy.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah. And I think you know, as we
Speaker 1: go through and for so long, I would hold on
Speaker 1: It's just the same as what you're talking about. I'd
Speaker 1: hold onto this one idea of success, and I'd hold
Speaker 1: onto it so tightly that it was almost like a
Speaker 1: tunnel vision. And that's all well and good in knowing
Speaker 1: the direction you want to go in, but when you
Speaker 1: do that, you just become so blind to all the
Speaker 1: opportunities that present themselves along the path. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, if we can surrender that over being, surrender
Speaker 1: what it's meant to look like. And I say meant
Speaker 1: in quotations because like we so you know, it's got
Speaker 1: this way in this time and you know X y
Speaker 1: Z where it's like hang on. If we could just
Speaker 1: you know, set our intention for the direction we want
Speaker 1: to go and release the group a bit. What is
Speaker 1: meant for us finds us when we allow it to.
Speaker 1: We just got to listen that grip a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so true and trust, I think trust the process
Speaker 2: even when you nothing is clear and moment. And I
Speaker 2: also love that you always refer back to you know,
Speaker 2: it took you no less than twelve years to be
Speaker 2: an overnight success, and not all twelve of those years
Speaker 2: were enjoyable or clear or forward moving. So in that
Speaker 2: twelve year chapter, and I know you've embarked on a
Speaker 2: very exciting new one, which is probably where I want
Speaker 2: to spend the most time today. But just closing off
Speaker 2: that chapter, like what were the moments that stand out
Speaker 2: to you the most, that got you from the markets
Speaker 2: to the on sex and the city, you know, seeing
Speaker 2: the world's most stellar celebrities wearing your product, having this
Speaker 2: website crash because people couldn't get enough of what you
Speaker 2: were doing, Like, you know, how how do you reflect
Speaker 2: now without reading the entire book, because I feel like
Speaker 2: everyone should go and read it for all the beautiful
Speaker 2: nuances and details that we didn't know at the time.
Speaker 2: You know, what was that twelve years like for you?
Speaker 2: And how what do you think made you such a
Speaker 2: great success from those markets to the highest highs.
Speaker 1: Look, and I do have to save my business partner,
Speaker 1: Jeff Bainbridge, who was very much the commercial element of
Speaker 1: the business and allowed me to be the best creative
Speaker 1: that I could be. So, you know, our partnership was
Speaker 1: very much the foundation of it. I think I think
Speaker 1: what we did as a brand, and I say we
Speaker 1: as in real people, not Renee and I, a real team.
Speaker 1: Everyone that worked on that brand over the fifteen years
Speaker 1: that it was in market, people just literally poured heart
Speaker 1: and soul into it. So it was so much more
Speaker 1: than just a product we shared. You know, in this case,
Speaker 1: it was my story. But you know, the founder's journey,
Speaker 1: I think to any business is if you're telling that correctly,
Speaker 1: and you're telling that with authenticity, that's the one thing
Speaker 1: people can't replicate. They can replicate your product and your packaging,
Speaker 1: but if you know the human element of it. And
Speaker 1: I think that my book that I've written. The original
Speaker 1: working title of that was Public Brand, Private Life, and
Speaker 1: it was originally slated as a hardcore business memoir. And
Speaker 1: the more that I wrote, I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously I was always going to share the highlights and
Speaker 1: the milestones and the hurdles and things like that, but
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's a middle element. It's the human it's
Speaker 1: humans doing business. It's humans that when heart broken or
Speaker 1: when we're in grief, or when the world doesn't seem
Speaker 1: to be going our way for months and months at
Speaker 1: a time, we're the ones still showing up and been
Speaker 1: running these businesses. So I think, you know, sorry, that
Speaker 1: got completely off topic of your question.
Speaker 3: No, it's still fascinating.
Speaker 1: I think what set us apart was, you know, anyone
Speaker 1: can I'm adamant anyone can design jewelry. But I think
Speaker 1: we were really good storytellers, and I think every touch
Speaker 1: point of our brand, we were wanting to enchant our consumer.
Speaker 1: We spoke with our consumer, not to her, and then
Speaker 1: every single person in that business had that same ethos
Speaker 1: and that's how we treated people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's something that came through really strongly
Speaker 2: in the book, is that you have Obviously there's so
Speaker 2: much practical advice on a scale up perspective that you
Speaker 2: can give to a perspective or you know, business owners
Speaker 2: earlier in their journey, and that's obviously really important, and
Speaker 2: things like delegating the skills that aren't your strong points,
Speaker 2: knowing what you strengths and weaknesses are, and like hiring accordingly.
Speaker 2: But the bigger message was the storytelling. And I feel
Speaker 2: like that does make or break a business more than
Speaker 2: the actual nuts and bolts of it. It was interesting
Speaker 2: how much emphasis there was on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's the human connection and that's how
Speaker 1: we see ourselves in others, how others see themselves in
Speaker 1: our experience, and that's not just relative to people. That's
Speaker 1: the job of a brand is to tell that. And
Speaker 1: so I think with branding, you know, we kind of
Speaker 1: go out and I think so many people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: I need to please everyone, or I need to get
Speaker 1: the biggest audience possible. I'm like, no, you need a small,
Speaker 1: engaged audience. Like if you're pleasing everyone, you're probably not
Speaker 1: living your brand values and you're not living your brand
Speaker 1: even trying to, you know, So I think it's about
Speaker 1: talking to this talking with sorry. I really like minded
Speaker 1: group of people, and I think that's all really well.
Speaker 2: And something a business partner said that I laughed at
Speaker 2: so much. Well, firstly, he said, for fox sake, dial
Speaker 2: it down with the turquoise, which I thought was hilarious.
Speaker 2: Turquoise is the essence. No, never dial it down.
Speaker 3: But also that I.
Speaker 2: Think someone asked him, you know, what trends do you
Speaker 2: see in joy or something, and he was like, oh,
Speaker 2: she just says fuck it to trends, like she just
Speaker 2: designs what she thinks is the brand.
Speaker 1: One of the owners of has Haileey Perl. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, you can't say fuck in the No.
Speaker 3: I forgot that detail.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And he was just so raisen about that. True,
Speaker 1: and you know, it was something that I couldn't admit that,
Speaker 1: you know, he was brazen enough.
Speaker 2: To to say it that way. But if you were
Speaker 2: speaking to young Samantha at like maybe twenty one, twenty
Speaker 2: two or even twenty five, in those earlier years of
Speaker 2: the business, if there were three things that you could
Speaker 2: say to someone that you think would you know, go
Speaker 2: well for them or help their journey in the net,
Speaker 2: you know, taking it through that next scalep chapter.
Speaker 1: What would it be harness your intuition? I think, you know,
Speaker 1: we've known what the word intuition means through our whole life.
Speaker 1: But I think we've been raised in a culture that
Speaker 1: celebrates the logical explanation and celebrates the you know, the
Speaker 1: tangible traditional five sensors, where that kind of is quashed
Speaker 1: down our internal knowing. So I think a lot of
Speaker 1: the times through my earlier journey, you know, I really
Speaker 1: didn't back myself on things that I trusted, you know,
Speaker 1: not big maybe is big things, but just like day
Speaker 1: to day things and hearing the intuity voice is not
Speaker 1: the hard bit, it's trusting it. So I think ultimating
Speaker 1: that and really investing in learning the fluency of intuiting nature.
Speaker 1: And I think the others would be, you know, stop
Speaker 1: and smell the roses along the way, and that was
Speaker 1: that relates as it relates also to like, don't hold
Speaker 1: on so tightly to one outcome. The most beautiful things
Speaker 1: are going to cross your path. Don't be so focused
Speaker 1: on is something that you know, you miss those things
Speaker 1: that that would probably be my my two big ones,
Speaker 1: to be honest, intuit nature is something that is all
Speaker 1: of us you know, it's not spared just for the
Speaker 1: elite few. We all have it, and I think we
Speaker 1: really need to get back to that.
Speaker 2: I love that you said as what you because the
Speaker 2: book is so much about gold and dust, and alchemy,
Speaker 2: particularly as a jewelry maker, has always been something that
Speaker 2: fascinates you. I love that you described alchemy as being
Speaker 2: not about the end of the cycle, but about the
Speaker 2: full spectrum of that cycle, and that life is the same.
Speaker 2: I often say, yeah's a journey, not a destination, because
Speaker 2: you'll inevitably get to that destination, and then what does
Speaker 2: it mean if you haven't sort of enjoyed the journey
Speaker 2: to get there, then you're just living moment to moment
Speaker 2: without any kind of joy along the way. So I
Speaker 2: love that reminder because it's so easy to get so
Speaker 2: bogged down and well, what's my next achievement that I
Speaker 2: need to get to, and never enjoying yourself.
Speaker 1: You know, probably the second part of that jewelry journey
Speaker 1: for me was like probably not stop not I know,
Speaker 1: I didn't stop long enough and celebrate the winds along
Speaker 1: the way. But it just becomes this vicious cycle of like,
Speaker 1: I think, great, we achieve that now, what's next, And
Speaker 1: it's like, you're right, get to the top of the mountain,
Speaker 1: You're like, Hey, what's next. You're like, like, it's it's
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say it's unfulfilling, because it was. It
Speaker 1: was what I wanted and it was incredibly fulfilling along
Speaker 1: the way. But yeah, you got it immerse in those
Speaker 1: moments because it sounds so cliche. It's I enjoy the
Speaker 1: journey along the way, but the entire point and I
Speaker 1: think as it relates to the alchemy of the human spirit,
Speaker 1: like you can't have growth without the darkness, you can't
Speaker 1: have resilience without sitting on the depths of that dark floor.
Speaker 1: Like they go hand in hand, and the beauty is
Speaker 1: on the other side of it. But it is the
Speaker 1: whole spectrum of it. You're right.
Speaker 2: I always talk about as I get older, I feel
Speaker 2: like all the cliches make sense. I'm like, well, they
Speaker 2: cliches because they're they're real, Like they're true.
Speaker 3: They cliche for a reason. Davit differently, Well, before.
Speaker 2: We do move on to that sort of second half
Speaker 2: of the business, because that's the bit I'm really really
Speaker 2: fascinated about, because that's where it seemed like you had
Speaker 2: seized your yeah, and you did have everything you'd ever
Speaker 2: dreamed of, and so interesting that what looks like walking
Speaker 2: away from everything good has actually been a great liberation
Speaker 2: and total redefinition of the world around you, which I
Speaker 2: think is the next thing people struggle with is when
Speaker 2: they have hit the goals they thought they wanted and
Speaker 2: then don't know what to do next. But quickly before that,
Speaker 2: speaking of the darkness, and I think the midnight chapter
Speaker 2: or something as you call it, but also the lightners
Speaker 2: looking back now, what were your midnight moments? But what
Speaker 2: were your highest moments? The ones where it did hit
Speaker 2: home of like j lo is fucking wearing my jewelry,
Speaker 2: Like what does that feel like?
Speaker 1: Did that happen? Like? I mean, Pink played such a
Speaker 1: big part in my journey in my share in there
Speaker 1: where she bought our entire collection and we're like, like,
Speaker 1: I was like wow, definitely having product on sex and
Speaker 1: the city was surreal being on cubilaty all of it's
Speaker 1: still even and to have the gift to return to
Speaker 1: it through writing and be able to sit with each
Speaker 1: of those moments felt so special to be able to
Speaker 1: relive them again. The opt sad alongside Mark Warburn. That
Speaker 1: was that was why.
Speaker 2: It's so hard, Like I can imagine it being just
Speaker 2: difficult to describe what that's actually like, and it sounds bad.
Speaker 2: But sometimes the things that I have never thought, like
Speaker 2: the rooms I've never thought i'd be in, or the
Speaker 2: situations I've never thought I would be in. It's I'm
Speaker 2: almost numb at the time because it's so much sensory
Speaker 2: overload that, like, you know, you come straight out of
Speaker 2: it and.
Speaker 3: Someone will be like, how wasn't You're like, it was amazing,
Speaker 3: but I.
Speaker 2: Can't feel anything yet, Like I'm just so my sense
Speaker 2: is just switch off because I'm like otherwise I'll explode.
Speaker 2: And it's only like years later that you look back
Speaker 2: and you're like, what was that?
Speaker 1: It's so true, I don't know it was every moment
Speaker 1: of it was was surreal, and you know, it's often
Speaker 1: easy to romanticize things. But obviously, as I said, there
Speaker 1: was a lot of mid nights in there as well.
Speaker 1: But it all makes up the spectrum.
Speaker 2: And then what I get really fascinated about is people
Speaker 2: knowing when the next you know, when that next step
Speaker 2: in the staircase, when it's time for that it's a
Speaker 2: lot easier, I think when you take a new step
Speaker 2: because of dissatisfaction, because you're like, this has gotten too far,
Speaker 2: I'm too unhappy. I'll do something about this. But when
Speaker 2: it's almost too much of a good thing, it's really
Speaker 2: hard to walk away from what everyone else in society
Speaker 2: thinks should be the dream. But as you mentioned, like
Speaker 2: if your intuition is telling you, actually, I've grown out
Speaker 2: of this chapter. It's not serving me anymore. Something I
Speaker 2: found really interesting that you said was that you had
Speaker 2: become less and less creative as the business grew, and
Speaker 2: rather than a jewelry company, it almost becomes a logistics company,
Speaker 2: and that that's not what you started out for, which
Speaker 2: is resonated with me because we sold our first business
Speaker 2: match I made and at the end of last year,
Speaker 2: because I was in a factory with a high aussest,
Speaker 2: not with the customers and not doing the storytelling. But
Speaker 2: it's a real like, excuse my language, but it's a
Speaker 2: head fuck to sort of pull away from the dreams
Speaker 2: that you've You know, you've seized your ya and fulfilled
Speaker 2: your dreams, but then even the foundation, how did you
Speaker 2: know that you needed something else to what you were doing.
Speaker 2: How do you know that that's what's you know.
Speaker 1: I think we haven't been afforded the information that it's
Speaker 1: okay to close something like it's okay to be like, okay,
Speaker 1: I did that and walk it rather than running it
Speaker 1: into the depth. I use friends the TV shows example,
Speaker 1: like they closed on a high, they honored that legacy.
Speaker 1: And then you see programs that have tried to reboot,
Speaker 1: like Sex and the City. I'm like, man, they should
Speaker 1: not have come back. And even though we had product
Speaker 1: in the movie, don't get me rod.
Speaker 3: It was okay on one level.
Speaker 1: I always sound like that movie was so Sex and
Speaker 1: the City two was such a shit awful movie. It
Speaker 1: was so bad.
Speaker 3: Except for your Jewelry obviously, But I'm.
Speaker 1: Just like, wow, what a way to really destroy it's
Speaker 1: probably too harsh a word, but to destroy a really
Speaker 1: incredible franchise. So I think, you know, for us to
Speaker 1: close to the mount the World's Jewelry, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: it might have looked like a quick decision because it
Speaker 1: kind of shocked a lot of people, but it was
Speaker 1: a two year journey for me to get to that point. So,
Speaker 1: you know, after a relationship breakdown, which really threw me
Speaker 1: into the depths of a personal darkness in two thousand
Speaker 1: and fifteen. I then launched the Samantha Worlds Foundation twenty
Speaker 1: sixteen and kind of, you know, that was my alchemy
Speaker 1: to kind of move through that. And then my curiosity
Speaker 1: was starting to be sparked from my writing on the
Speaker 1: Samantha the World's Foundation. And at the same time, I
Speaker 1: probably designed, you know, eleven thousand pieces of jewelry. I
Speaker 1: knew at that point I was designing with my hands
Speaker 1: and not my heart. We were doing, you know, twenty
Speaker 1: two collections a year. At that point, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: eleven thousand pieces of jewelry in I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: it's just a creative block, you know, that little flicker
Speaker 1: inciety that as all creative people know, it's your lifeblood,
Speaker 1: it's what gets you up in the morning, runs through
Speaker 1: your veins, and mine was really starting to do. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it's just a creative block. Like
Speaker 1: I know this feeling, you know, six months in another
Speaker 1: six months, another six months, I'm like, okay, share, maybe
Speaker 1: this is this is how I feel forever now. Like
Speaker 1: it was a very scary place to reside.
Speaker 4: And because you know, I ever so modestly named the
Speaker 4: brand the Wheel. You know, we're branding growth, and we were,
Speaker 4: you know, there was no reason to even question stepping
Speaker 4: away from it.
Speaker 1: I just didn't even think that was an avenue for me.
Speaker 1: So my thought was like, I need to get this
Speaker 1: creativity back, and that's what I tried to set about doing.
Speaker 1: And obviously the time had come and once I finally
Speaker 1: realized what was happening, that was time to close that chapter.
Speaker 1: I could have sold it. I could have got another
Speaker 1: designer in and just stepped away from it completely. But
Speaker 1: I was like, that's not what the brand was built on.
Speaker 1: The brand was built on soul, it was built on heart,
Speaker 1: it was built on this you know truth around that.
Speaker 1: And for me, designing with my hands and not my
Speaker 1: heart felt fraudular in a way to me. So I
Speaker 1: wanted to honor the legacy of that journey. I wanted
Speaker 1: to honor the people that worked on that brand, and
Speaker 1: wanted to honor our incredible brand community. And I think
Speaker 1: that it was just a knowing inside and I talk
Speaker 1: about like a feeling filter and you know, in your
Speaker 1: soloplexaria and then the thinking filter, and when you run
Speaker 1: things through your feeling filter. You cannot fake a feeling.
Speaker 1: You can talk yourself in and out of anything, but
Speaker 1: you cannot truly fake a true feeling. And at that time,
Speaker 1: when you know, when I made that decision, I was like,
Speaker 1: it just feels entirely like the right thing to do.
Speaker 1: So sorry, a long way around to answer your question,
Speaker 1: it's going inside and only you can make that decision
Speaker 1: as a founder. It doesn't it doesn't matter if you're
Speaker 1: making bajillions. It's as a creative founder. Your lifeblood is
Speaker 1: on creative integrity and if you don't have that, it's
Speaker 1: it's going to be a pretty hollow existence.
Speaker 2: And that's such an amazing example of how along the
Speaker 2: way I think people's relationship to success and wealth and
Speaker 2: material things like obviously to have a business and for
Speaker 2: it to survive, the numbers are important to an extent,
Speaker 2: but that you know, you had the chance to sell
Speaker 2: and walk away with an extraordinarily you know, huge amount
Speaker 2: of wealth and with still keeping a big legacy. And
Speaker 2: I think it was at the time unheard of really
Speaker 2: for someone to close something that had everything going for it,
Speaker 2: like preempting any kind of problems. There was no indication
Speaker 2: that it wouldn't go on for twenty years or thirty
Speaker 2: years longer. And it was so brave because people at
Speaker 2: the time, I think, still had like that dominant view
Speaker 2: of success was financial and so for you to walk
Speaker 2: away from that, everyone was like, what is happening, Like
Speaker 2: there's no financial reasons, so they couldn't understand that.
Speaker 1: It goes back to the logic right where it's like
Speaker 1: there's like I remember speaking at an event not long
Speaker 1: after we announced it, and these gentleman stood up, and
Speaker 1: he was an older gentleman. It's like, I just don't
Speaker 1: understand your logic around this, and I was like that
Speaker 1: there is there is no logic I can't argue with that,
Speaker 1: you know, And I think to your point, like success
Speaker 1: changes over time, Like what I deemed a success at
Speaker 1: twenty one is different to twenty five, to twenty eight
Speaker 1: to thirty two. Like so success at the end of
Speaker 1: that journey, to me was a personal calmness and a
Speaker 1: creative flame. Like creativity to me is a form of success.
Speaker 1: And I feel like I had done all I could
Speaker 1: do with that brand, so it was time to seek
Speaker 1: that out in a new chapter.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, just so so extraordinarily brave, and I'd
Speaker 2: love to sort of weave in the next section, which
Speaker 2: is Nata and that's all the big barriers to your
Speaker 2: joy along the way, and you cover them so beautifully
Speaker 2: in the book. I mean, seriously, look, there's like so
Speaker 2: many tabs it's actually ridiculous. But you know, we've talked
Speaker 2: touched on imposter syndrome, self doubt, and comparison, which is
Speaker 2: some of the biggest themes that emerge. I imagine around
Speaker 2: that time that they probably fled more than they ever
Speaker 2: had because the decision was so questioned and so looking
Speaker 2: at other people selling or other people and the way
Speaker 2: that they'd done it, Like how did you hope with
Speaker 2: the doubt about it being the right decision, doubt about
Speaker 2: the implications for other people, and comparing to what other
Speaker 2: founders do.
Speaker 1: I think it was actually a really calm for some reason.
Speaker 1: I might be a psychopath. I'm not sure. It was
Speaker 1: just such a calm noise. It was like two years
Speaker 1: of turmoil and fear and self questioning and like this
Speaker 1: really unease within myself to get to that decision, and
Speaker 1: then even to the day we closed, it was just
Speaker 1: a calmness of like it is time and I also
Speaker 1: acknowledged that it was a shock to a lot of people,
Speaker 1: and I really I think I conveyed this in the book,
Speaker 1: where you know, in my mind in the lead up
Speaker 1: to the announcement of closing, I was like, the world
Speaker 1: doesn't need any more jewelry, like we you know, kind
Speaker 1: of like this almost like a high and mighty like payer,
Speaker 1: doesn't you know this, that and the other. It doesn't
Speaker 1: matter about the jewelry. And then when we announced it,
Speaker 1: the amount of love and sharing that people within our
Speaker 1: brand community and how much the brand touched people, and
Speaker 1: like one of our community members and she's said that
Speaker 1: I am able to share this publicly, and I shared
Speaker 1: it in the book. But you know, she shares the
Speaker 1: story of where she was a somouth the Worl's jewelry collector,
Speaker 1: and she was in a domestic violent relationship and one
Speaker 1: was on Christmas Eve and she had barricaded herself into
Speaker 1: her bedroom and her partner was, you know, trying to
Speaker 1: hack through the door to get into her and it
Speaker 1: was about four o'clock in the morning and he finally
Speaker 1: got in and smashed her entire Somautha the World's Jewelry
Speaker 1: collection to complete ducts. She didn't head away, and he
Speaker 1: found it and destroyed it. And she wrote all this
Speaker 1: in a letter. I'm kind of reading it with my
Speaker 1: hand on my heart, and she said, and you know,
Speaker 1: I finally worked up the courage after years to leave
Speaker 1: this relationship and to take an AVO out on him.
Speaker 1: And she goes, my brother took me to the police
Speaker 1: station and we filed the AVO and she goes, I'm
Speaker 1: straight from the police station. I went and I bought
Speaker 1: a Samoanthul's Bohemian bato ring and I was what And
Speaker 1: she goes, because that me signified it was my shield
Speaker 1: and my sword, and it signified my next step forward,
Speaker 1: and it was the rebuilding of what he had destroyed.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I take it back the jewelry.
Speaker 1: I was wrong, And you know, in my haste to
Speaker 1: start a new chapter, I think I was too hasty
Speaker 1: in that assumption. And just it was many stories that
Speaker 1: just came in that just wrapped around my heart about
Speaker 1: what the brand meant to them, and that almost as
Speaker 1: sad as it was, and people didn't want us to close.
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's why we're honoring this legacy. That's why
Speaker 1: we're not handing this over to a department store giant
Speaker 1: to see what they do with it. So it was pretty.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that ring has just made a full
Speaker 2: impact on the world. Like some of the photos in
Speaker 2: the book, of all its different iterations, and like there's
Speaker 2: one way. You've got a whole war of them.
Speaker 1: Oh weved one million of them through our business, sixty colorways.
Speaker 1: In the end, it had a life of its own.
Speaker 1: It was yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 2: And look this is you know, turquoise turkoise see Jeff
Speaker 2: the signature. Oh my gosh. Definitely not dialing that down.
Speaker 2: So how has it been now that you're Like another
Speaker 2: thing that really fascinates me is the concept of identity
Speaker 2: and then how much we wrap ourselves up in titles,
Speaker 2: and then how sometimes you do Like one of the
Speaker 2: most liberating things can be walking away from something that
Speaker 2: isn't what you started it for, or that has become
Speaker 2: so consuming you don't remember who you were before it.
Speaker 2: What has it been like rebuilding that outside of as
Speaker 2: a designer as Samantha Will's, founder of Samantha Will's Jewel
Speaker 2: you know, like, how has it been to sort of
Speaker 2: recreate yourself?
Speaker 1: I think it's still in progress, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: as I share towards the end of the book, I'm like, all,
Speaker 1: I know, my entire adult life was Smath the Will's
Speaker 1: jewelry designer. And you know, I even lost the name
Speaker 1: Samantha Will's role because it was the brand's name and
Speaker 1: I just got called sw I was like, can I
Speaker 1: even have that name back after it's been so commercial?
Speaker 1: So it definitely was a transition process. I think now
Speaker 1: I feel really calm and at home in my next
Speaker 1: body of work, which obviously is a book. I'm just
Speaker 1: in the final days of our masterclass year to kind
Speaker 1: of I think it's still tied to that identity because
Speaker 1: it will always be my origin story of this jewelry brand,
Speaker 1: but you know, handing that over it and paying it
Speaker 1: forward in a way to other entrepreneurs that are charting
Speaker 1: their path. So it feels right, is I guess the
Speaker 1: most honest answer and give?
Speaker 2: Well? The book is just so magical, and so I
Speaker 2: just feel like it really talks to something inside you
Speaker 2: that if you didn't know you had it, you will
Speaker 2: after you read the book, because it's it's unusual for
Speaker 2: a business person's book to be so emphatic on cosmic
Speaker 2: and on intuition. But I think that's probably what we
Speaker 2: need to do a bit more because we do focus
Speaker 2: so much on numbers and outcomes success blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: and that is like a very sure fire way to
Speaker 2: not necessarily be happy and to miss all the moments
Speaker 2: because you're burning out and you're never stopping to celebrate
Speaker 2: the successes. How have you found like physically managing everything
Speaker 2: until now? Really like being pulled in all different directions
Speaker 2: being a founder and an entrepreneurh's also a speaker, and
Speaker 2: then even in this next chapter being a writer, like
Speaker 2: I'm sure the interview requests and energy pulling you in
Speaker 2: all different directions, Like how do you manage burnout?
Speaker 1: You know, I say, to avoid burnout, you first have
Speaker 1: to burn out. I don't think it's something we seek out,
Speaker 1: but I think you can never truly understand the importance
Speaker 1: of self care. And self care is such an overused
Speaker 1: not I've used but used in so many contexts that
Speaker 1: really it is about self care of the soul, Like
Speaker 1: how are you protecting your spirit from exhaustion and energetic exhaustion?
Speaker 1: I think so for me now, I'm definitely listening to
Speaker 1: my body a lot more thinking when I share my
Speaker 1: endometrios journey in the book, where I just completely not
Speaker 1: only ignored when my body was screaming at me every month,
Speaker 1: but like always despised her for it. So now I'm definitely,
Speaker 1: you know, much more kinder, I think to myself and
Speaker 1: listening to that a lot quicker. Still still got a
Speaker 1: ways to come, but definitely listen to it a lot quicker.
Speaker 1: And really, you know, I'm at a point now where
Speaker 1: it's got to feel right to me. And you know,
Speaker 1: I hope that doesn't sound disposable because I keep going
Speaker 1: back to it, but I'm like, what I used to
Speaker 1: think I should be doing, And now I'm like, does
Speaker 1: it feel right what you're doing? And that's my barometer now. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So in terms of like what your plans are, I'm
Speaker 2: sure it was actually quite freeing to let go of
Speaker 2: like next season, next season planning and meetings and quarters
Speaker 2: and stuff to sort of just I don't know what's
Speaker 2: coming next, Like how are you planning for what comes next?
Speaker 2: And like with the book, what are the bits you're
Speaker 2: most proud of, what are the bits that were the hardest,
Speaker 2: and what do you hope for it to do.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, as it relates to fashion, you're
Speaker 1: always working, you know, four seasons, so it was nice
Speaker 1: to come back to the present for a while. Trually,
Speaker 1: everything is still forward planning. The process of writing a
Speaker 1: book is very forward planning. You know, you're kind of
Speaker 1: submitting it six months before it actually goes to Prins.
Speaker 1: But I enjoyed the process. I say it was part cathartic,
Speaker 1: part church confessional, part the merge all those together. But
Speaker 1: you know, I said to you before, I think with
Speaker 1: the teleportation, like going back and sitting with twenty one
Speaker 1: year old me and you know, going back and seeing
Speaker 1: with heartbroken me and kind of revisiting it, that those
Speaker 1: stages was really nice. In a way. I'm really proud
Speaker 1: of the body of work that it is. She's out
Speaker 1: in the world now, which I'm thrilled by, and I
Speaker 1: would love to see her adapted off the page in
Speaker 1: some respects that would be amazing. I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: been great done. You know, had a great book tour.
Speaker 1: So if the book is kind of the handing over
Speaker 1: of the story, then yeah, the master class is the tactile.
Speaker 1: So it's like, here's our marketing calendar. Here's the structure
Speaker 1: of the P and L. Here is all these hangible
Speaker 1: elements for entrepreneurs that they can apply to their own businesses,
Speaker 1: so hopefully they go hand in hand.
Speaker 2: I also heard that this incredible picture, which I think
Speaker 2: fits the entire concept of the book and the messaging
Speaker 2: and tone behind it, but that this was actually a
Speaker 2: selfie that you took that wasn't for the cover.
Speaker 1: I know history I was on a job that day
Speaker 1: and I had my hair and maypups on it, and
Speaker 1: then I was like, mom, like check out my nice
Speaker 1: hair and maypup and we're selfie. And that's what they
Speaker 1: ended up choosing is the book.
Speaker 2: And you did like a full cover shoot, and then
Speaker 2: intuition was like, this is the one from my phone.
Speaker 1: We actually and that was the selfie. Was what the
Speaker 1: publisher was like, Hey, we want to recreate this in
Speaker 1: the photo shoot, and obviously you know it's quite hard
Speaker 1: to recreate a selfie. So yeah, when they went back
Speaker 1: to that one, which I which I really love.
Speaker 2: And something else that you're I think surprisingly honest about
Speaker 2: is also in your personal life, not just the self
Speaker 2: doubt of the comparison in your or just your relationship
Speaker 2: with yourself, but also how the role of your relationships
Speaker 2: with other people business partners, mentors, people who you've worked
Speaker 2: with and who have given you intros to other people,
Speaker 2: but also your partners, which I think as a successful
Speaker 2: woman who is out in the world doing amazing things,
Speaker 2: it's actually quite difficult to fall into partnerships where you're
Speaker 2: not competing, where they give you enough space to go
Speaker 2: out and you know, to maybe earn more than them,
Speaker 2: or to be in the spotlight more. Just talk to
Speaker 2: us about the relationship side of things and how that's
Speaker 2: sort of unraveled for you in any advice you would
Speaker 2: have for other young female entrepreneurs who I think are
Speaker 2: moving into an age where gender roles are different, expectations
Speaker 2: are different, but it's still murky, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, definitely, I think, you know, we're still very
Speaker 1: much in a time where the ideal of shedding that
Speaker 1: traditional framework we can see it, but I don't think
Speaker 1: it's entirely on our generation just yet. I think it
Speaker 1: will be on the next gen, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it's about it comes down to that internal
Speaker 1: self esteem and you know, I talk about you know,
Speaker 1: a story in the book where I found out my
Speaker 1: partner was cheating on me, and it really put me
Speaker 1: into a deep darkness. But it was going to apply
Speaker 1: to him when I found out that he was cheating,
Speaker 1: where I said, you know, please don't leave me. And
Speaker 1: the basis of that came down to that my own
Speaker 1: self worth was really struggling. So I think first and
Speaker 1: foremost that comes down to you within and making sure
Speaker 1: that your framework of self is no one else's framework.
Speaker 1: It's got to be your own instead. It's go steadfast
Speaker 1: in that and being really clear on that, because I
Speaker 1: think that's when you start to attract what is meant
Speaker 1: for you. I think when we're trying to bend ourselves
Speaker 1: into pretzels and accommodate things that grow, you know, outside
Speaker 1: of our own values and boundaries, that's when we start
Speaker 1: to attract things that just aren't meant for us at
Speaker 1: the end of the day. So I think, yeah, my
Speaker 1: first news advice is don't take on other people's framework.
Speaker 1: You know, I share very honestly, I'm not even sure
Speaker 1: I want children. Yeah, thats went through egg freezing to
Speaker 1: give myself, you know, further options, and like you know,
Speaker 1: the traditional framework is as well, you meet someone at
Speaker 1: this age, you have kids at this age, you do X,
Speaker 1: Y and Z, and you tick ticktick all these boxes
Speaker 1: and I'm like, whose boxes are they? Like, maybe what's
Speaker 1: right for one is not right for the other. So
Speaker 1: getting really clear what your framework is and then solidifying
Speaker 1: who you are and I think that's the basis of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's such good advice.
Speaker 2: And it can be so easy to lose yourself, like
Speaker 2: you're out, you know, projecting to the outside world. You're
Speaker 2: your own woman and you're doing all these things. But
Speaker 2: we do have an emotional side, we do have a
Speaker 2: personal side behind the scenes. You can get lost in
Speaker 2: someone else's framework and ideals if you're not creating any
Speaker 2: boundaries or even putting time into that side of yourself.
Speaker 2: And I think that's something that also happens with our careers,
Speaker 2: is that, particularly when you do love what you do
Speaker 2: and it is unconventional and you do have a lot
Speaker 2: of freedom over your movement and your time and it
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like work. You don't bother creating any boundaries
Speaker 2: for play, because like, why would you. Your work's a
Speaker 2: fun thing. You don't need a break from that. But
Speaker 2: that's why the last section is your playta, which is
Speaker 2: making time to craft an identity for yourself that isn't productive,
Speaker 2: that isn't achieving all the time, and that allows yourself
Speaker 2: to waste time just because you enjoy a particular activity.
Speaker 2: And I think as children, we have such a curiosity
Speaker 2: for the world and we don't let expectations creep in.
Speaker 2: If we like something that's weird, we just do it anyway.
Speaker 2: But as adults we're like, oh no, if I find
Speaker 2: something quirky really fun, I'm just going to suppress that
Speaker 2: because what if I'm judged or what if no one
Speaker 2: wants to do it with me? But what has your
Speaker 2: relationship been to play? Do you have anything that you
Speaker 2: do that just helps you switch off? That's silly, and I.
Speaker 1: Think it's such an important thing. I remember someone asked
Speaker 1: me what when I had the jury business, and they're like,
Speaker 1: it's probably six years in. They're like, oh, what's your hobby?
Speaker 1: And I was like, designing jewelry and that was my hobby.
Speaker 1: But then I never replaced the hobby when I made
Speaker 1: it my career. And so my bigginess of buss and
Speaker 1: how I was like, even if you start, you turn
Speaker 1: your hobby into a career replace the hobby, Like you've
Speaker 1: got to have something that is non commercial to me,
Speaker 1: and I got onto this last lockdown, but paint find
Speaker 1: I love like I got these like which I have
Speaker 1: one here to show, but like the really intricate paint
Speaker 1: by numbers and I'm talking like thousands of thousands of
Speaker 1: little bits. You got a color in my and I
Speaker 1: truly find that. I then create space for new ideas
Speaker 1: to reach me. So it's almost like meditative but creative,
Speaker 1: and there's no commercial requirement at all. So paint by
Speaker 1: Numbers is my jam at the moment.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I love that. It's so true.
Speaker 2: I feel like because so many of us do, like
Speaker 2: our businesses start from a hobby. I just think like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: that's what I'm passionate about. But even if you don't
Speaker 2: need a break energetically, I think just from leaving the
Speaker 2: business and coming back to it, you have better ideas,
Speaker 2: Like your creativity is refreshed, and my best ideas have
Speaker 2: happened when I'm away.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, like I say, I get my best is
Speaker 1: when I'm either in the shower or driving on the freeway.
Speaker 1: So now to keep my numbers because your mind's active,
Speaker 1: but you're not like, oh my gosh, I have to
Speaker 1: solve that problem. It's just it allows what is meant
Speaker 1: for you to find you. So, yeah, get a hobby.
Speaker 1: One needs a hobby.
Speaker 2: And I feel like giving yourself permission to waste time,
Speaker 2: like to do something that would otherwise seem like a
Speaker 2: waste of time because it's not woman because you're not like,
Speaker 2: it's not a waste because you enjoy it. You've had
Speaker 2: like a full hour of fun that's just pure pleasure.
Speaker 1: But that's also the traditional framework of well it's a waste,
Speaker 1: Like why do we think it's a waste of time?
Speaker 1: So I think always questioning our our long held beliefs
Speaker 1: to see if they really do service is really important.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Oh gosh, so many nuggets of wisdom.
Speaker 3: Just to finish up.
Speaker 2: Second last question is the three interesting things about you
Speaker 2: that don't normally come up in conversation, which is hard
Speaker 2: since you've just written a book and shared very openly
Speaker 2: about lots of parts of your life.
Speaker 3: One that I loved was at one.
Speaker 2: Of your first jobs was at the hogs Breath Cafe,
Speaker 2: which I think is hilarious, But also playing Cinderella, which
Speaker 2: makes me think that you'd be a great actress and
Speaker 2: you could play yourself in the movie interpretation off of
Speaker 2: Gold and Dust.
Speaker 1: You know. I was Cinderella in a nurse theme park.
Speaker 1: That's a loose term for what it was. It's fantasy
Speaker 1: Glades in pot mcquarie, and it was like built say
Speaker 1: on four acres of enchanted green forest, but it was
Speaker 1: like four acres of sport plan So that was my job.
Speaker 1: I had lots of jobs that wouldn't even fit in
Speaker 1: the book, Like I was like worked in a galley
Speaker 1: on a boat. I like every type of different job
Speaker 1: that you can imagine. Before I got it together. When
Speaker 1: I was little, I learned taught myself sign language, like
Speaker 1: really basic sign language because I'm an only child. This
Speaker 1: sounds sad, but it's not really.
Speaker 3: So you could talk to yourself in the mirror.
Speaker 1: Because it used to be in the we the yellow
Speaker 1: pages in the phone book, and I remember Mum and
Speaker 1: Dad were doing something and I was like, I'm just
Speaker 1: going to sit here and read the phone book because
Speaker 1: I didn't have brothers or sisters, and told myself my
Speaker 1: God in sign language, Oh.
Speaker 3: My god, that's so cute.
Speaker 2: Didn't you also do like flute concerts outside your parents.
Speaker 1: Diss or something done at all.
Speaker 4: For that.
Speaker 2: If there's a message to take from that, it's you've
Speaker 2: got to try everything to figure out you. Yay, just
Speaker 2: try things. Emphasize right, flute and basketball. You're a basketballer, basketballer, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: an ice cream server and an ice cream server. Multi talented.
Speaker 2: This woman, your Linkeodin is just like wa. And since
Speaker 2: I love quote so much, the last question is what
Speaker 2: is your favorite quote?
Speaker 1: I think it has to be the one that you
Speaker 1: said before, which is the universe only has three answers
Speaker 1: for us, yes, not right now, or have something in
Speaker 1: store for you. I think it's no matter whether you
Speaker 1: have a spiritual belief or if your have religious beliefs.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's just so during that over to
Speaker 1: be like what is meant for you is making its
Speaker 1: way to you right.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, absolutely beautiful way to finish. Thank you
Speaker 2: so so much for your time. I could have talked
Speaker 2: to you for like five hours. I'm going to go
Speaker 2: and read this book all over again.
Speaker 3: It is so beautiful.
Speaker 1: Thank you for providing this platform. I think the conversations
Speaker 1: that you facilitate are so important and I'm so grateful
Speaker 1: to be a guest on your show.
Speaker 2: Well she is well and truly one of Australia's Golden Girls.
Speaker 2: I took so much out of this amazing chat and
Speaker 2: Samantha's incredible new book of Gold and Dust. It's such
Speaker 2: a beautiful read that feels like she's speaking directly to
Speaker 2: you with so much warmth and wisdom. And Samantha has
Speaker 2: generously given the neighborhood a twenty dollar voucher. If you
Speaker 2: want to have a read yourself, you seize the A
Speaker 2: twenty at the checkout before December thirty one to get
Speaker 2: your little dose of Golden Yay. The link is in
Speaker 2: the show notes. I can't recommend it more highly. As always,
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Speaker 2: I've had such lovely feedback about you guys showering people
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Speaker 2: yeay