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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mea podcast. Good morning from gadigal Land.

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Speaker 1: I'm Taylor Strano. Hey, quick question, are countries for sale?

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Speaker 2: I've actually looked into it and it's well complicated.

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Speaker 1: But if you ask the Trump administration, everything has a price.

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Speaker 1: The US President says it's absolutely necessary for the United

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Speaker 1: States to conquer Greenland as a matter of national security.

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Speaker 1: But why does this Danish territory more than four thousand

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Speaker 1: kilometers away mean so much to Trump? And what happens

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Speaker 1: if he doesn't get it before we get there. Claire

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Speaker 1: Murphy's Got News Headlines for Friday, January sixteenth.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Taylor. Days after bushfires raged across the state, flash

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Speaker 3: flooding has hit Victoria's Great Ocean Road. Locals and touristing

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Speaker 3: communities around the y Kennett and Cumberland. Rivers around Lawn

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Speaker 3: were told to take shelter yesterday after the region was

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Speaker 3: in under by torrential rain. Footage posted online shows cars

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Speaker 3: being swept out to sea and campgrounds swamped. The rain

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Speaker 3: gage at Mount Cauley recording more than one hundred and

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Speaker 3: seventy millimeters of rain in the seven hours to nine

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Speaker 3: am yesterday. The previous total for an entire day in

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Speaker 3: the area was one hundred and twenty three millimeters. According

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Speaker 3: to figures released by the federal government today, almost five

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Speaker 3: million social media accounts have been deactivated or restricted since

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Speaker 3: Australia's world first age restrictions took effect on December ten.

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Speaker 3: The e Safety Commission has been closely monitoring social media

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Speaker 3: platforms since the laws took effect, and it says more

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Speaker 3: than four point seven million accounts were deactivated, removed or

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Speaker 3: restricted by December twelve. While some teenagers have managed to

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Speaker 3: bypass the age limits, which include digital ID face scans

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Speaker 3: and sophisticated algorithms, the data shows a large number have

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Speaker 3: already been booted off platforms. Meta, the parent company of

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Speaker 3: Facebook and Instagram, said it took down more than half

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Speaker 3: a million Australian user accounts before the even started. US

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Speaker 3: President Donald Trump has threatened to use the Insurrection Act,

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Speaker 3: which would allow him to deploy military forces in Minnesota

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Speaker 3: amid escalating tension over the deployment of federal ice agents,

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Speaker 3: which has become the focus of daily clashes. Trump took

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Speaker 3: to social media saying if the corrupt politicians of Minnesota

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Speaker 3: don't obey the law and stop the professional agitators and

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Speaker 3: insurrectionists from attacking the patriots of ICE who are only

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Speaker 3: trying to do their job. I will institute the Insurrection Act.

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Speaker 3: There has been an increase in violent incidents between ICE

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Speaker 3: agents and civilians. Thirty seven year old Rene Good was

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Speaker 3: killed by an ICE agent in Minneapolis after she attempted

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Speaker 3: to drive away. Her death has motivated more civilians to

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Speaker 3: protest against the agent's rival in their cities. The US

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Speaker 3: Department of Homeland Security, which is overseeing Trump's immigration crackdown,

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Speaker 3: said that an incident on Wednesday saw two people attack

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Speaker 3: a federal officer with a broomstick and a snowshovel as

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Speaker 3: he wrestled with a Venezuelan who the DHS said was

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Speaker 3: in the un United States illegally. Elon Musk's Ai chatbot

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Speaker 3: Grok will no longer be able to edit photos to

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Speaker 3: portray real people in revealing clothing in places where that

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Speaker 3: is illegal. In a statement, Musk's company Xai now says

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Speaker 3: it will geoblock content if it violates laws in a

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Speaker 3: particular place, saying we have implemented technological measures to prevent

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Speaker 3: the groc account from allowing the editing of images of

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Speaker 3: real people in revealing clothing such as bikini's underwear and

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Speaker 3: other revealing attire. The rule applies to all its users,

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Speaker 3: including paid subscribers who have access to more features. Groc's

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Speaker 3: Spicy mode had allowed users to create explicit content, leading

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Speaker 3: to a backlash from governments worldwide. Malaysia and Indonesia took

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Speaker 3: legal action and blocked access to Grock. France and India

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Speaker 3: have also issued warnings demanding stricter controls, and Brazil has

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Speaker 3: called for an investigation into Grox's misuse. The UK and

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Speaker 3: European Union we're investigating potential violations of online safety laws.

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Speaker 3: Actress Pamela Anderson has explained how she felt uncomfortable in

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Speaker 3: the audience of the Golden Globes because she was sitting

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Speaker 3: near Seth Rogan, who made a TV show about some

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Speaker 3: of the worst times in her life without ever speaking

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Speaker 3: to her about it. Rogan produced and starred in the

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Speaker 3: show Pammy and Tommy, about the thieves who rob Anderson's

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Speaker 3: former husband Tommy Lee Jones, defind they've accidentally grabbed their

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Speaker 3: sex tape. This actually happened to the couple back in

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety five. Anderson telling Andy Cohen that she left

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Speaker 3: right after presenting Rose Byrne for her Best Actress in

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Speaker 3: a Musical or Comedy, saying it was in part due

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Speaker 3: to Rogan being in the audience. She said Rogan had

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Speaker 3: made the series without talking to her, saying, how can

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Speaker 3: someone make a TV show out of the difficult times

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Speaker 3: in your life? And I'm still a living, breathing human

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Speaker 3: over here. She said she felt weird being around him,

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Speaker 3: and that she felt a bit yucky about the situation,

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Speaker 3: but that she hopes Rogan will one day reach out

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Speaker 3: to her and apologize.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Clinton.

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Speaker 1: Next Trump, Greenland and his diplomatic playbook.

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Speaker 2: All right, political pop quiz?

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Speaker 1: Can you buy a country? Well, billionaires by islands all

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Speaker 1: the time, but.

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Speaker 2: What about a whole nation?

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Speaker 1: If you ask us President Donald Trump, he'd probably tell

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Speaker 1: you everything has a price, and if it doesn't, there

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Speaker 1: are other methods to get what you want, at least

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Speaker 1: in the case of Greenland. Greenland is not this free,

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Speaker 1: floating block of ice looking for a buyer. It's actually

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Speaker 1: an autonomous territory within the Kingdom of Denmark, a kind

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Speaker 1: of semi independent part of Denmark with its own parliament

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Speaker 1: and government for most domestic issues. Copenhagen, however, still controls

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Speaker 1: defense and foreign policy. It's got around fifty seven thousand people,

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Speaker 1: mostly indigenous Greenlanders, and roughly eighty percent of its land

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Speaker 1: mass is covered by ice.

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Speaker 2: Danish and Greenlandic law.

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Speaker 1: Make clear that any move toward full independence or a

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Speaker 1: change in sovereignty has to be approved by Greenlanders themselves

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Speaker 1: in a referendum, has to be agreed to by both

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Speaker 1: Greenlandic and Danish parliaments.

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Speaker 2: Both governments have repeatedly said they have zero.

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Speaker 1: Interest in being owned by the United States. So why

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Speaker 1: does Trump want it? Well, the short answer is strategy, security,

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Speaker 1: and resources. Geographically, Greenland sits between North America and Russia,

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Speaker 1: a point in the North Atlantic used for tracking Russian

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Speaker 1: and Chinese naval activity and controlling access to the Arctic.

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Speaker 1: The US already runs a major air base in northwest Greenland,

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Speaker 1: but Trump argues that ownership would lock in US dominance

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Speaker 1: in a region he says is surrounded.

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Speaker 2: By rival ships. Then there's what's under the ice.

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Speaker 1: As the climate warms, Greenland's vast natural resources. That's oil, gas,

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Speaker 1: rare earth, minerals, uranium, and fresh water, they become more accessible,

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Speaker 1: making it a prize for anyone who thinks about future

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Speaker 1: energy security and high tech supply chains. The Trump administration

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Speaker 1: has downplayed the resource angle, saying for Greenland is more

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Speaker 1: about national security, but in the grand scheme of things,

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Speaker 1: access to critical minerals is a pretty sweet bonus. This

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Speaker 1: isn't the first time the US has tried to buy Greenland.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen forty six, it.

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Speaker 1: Quietly offered to take the territory of Denmark's hands, but

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Speaker 1: alas they couldn't make a deal. So how likely are

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Speaker 1: the US attempts to, in Trump's words, conquer Greenland in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: To pay off? And what happens if they keep declining?

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Speaker 1: United States Study Center Associate Professor David Smith has been

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Speaker 1: closely following the unfolding situation. David, let's start with the

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Speaker 1: latest developments. US and Danish officials. They met yesterday to

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Speaker 1: discuss the Trump administration's plans. What do we know about

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Speaker 1: that meeting?

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Speaker 4: What came out of this meeting was that they have

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Speaker 4: not reached an agreement. The leaders have been very clear

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Speaker 4: about that. They said that the talks were constructive and frank,

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Speaker 4: but there's a fundamental deal disagreement between the two sides.

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Speaker 4: And even though they haven't said it explicitly, what that

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Speaker 4: disagreement is is that Denmark refuses to sell Greenland. They

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Speaker 4: will not consider the idea of selling Greenland. They don't

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Speaker 4: believe that they have the power to sell Greenland, and

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Speaker 4: Greenland agrees with them about this. But on the other side,

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Speaker 4: it really appears that the Americans are continuing to push

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Speaker 4: the line that the United States has to acquire complete

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Speaker 4: control of Greenland, and that the offer that they've made

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Speaker 4: is to buy it.

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Speaker 1: Is Greenland even technically for sale. Can you buy a country, David.

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Speaker 4: It's been more than a century since we've had these

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Speaker 4: kind of large scale sales of one country to another.

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Speaker 4: And the reason why is that before the First World War,

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Speaker 4: the world was largely ruled by empires who were able

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Speaker 4: to conduct these transactions with very little regard for people

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Speaker 4: who lived in these places. When the United States bought

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Speaker 4: the Louisiana purchase from the French, or Alaska from the Russians,

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Speaker 4: the considerations of the Native Americans and Native Alaskans didn't matter.

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Speaker 4: They weren't citizens, they didn't have political rights. We're living

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Speaker 4: in a different world now, where national self determination is

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Speaker 4: respected and where the rights of indigenous people are respected,

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Speaker 4: and so Denmark's position is they have no right to

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Speaker 4: sell Greenland a country which can decide to become independent.

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Speaker 4: It is Greenlanders who have to determine their own political future.

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Speaker 4: So when Denmark says the Greenland is not for sale,

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Speaker 4: they're not just saying they won't sell it. They're saying

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Speaker 4: they can't sell it. It has to be up to

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Speaker 4: the people of Greenland to decide, and the Greenlanders have

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Speaker 4: made it very clear increasingly clear that they don't consider

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Speaker 4: the country to be for sale to the United States.

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Speaker 4: In fact, Greenland's Prime minister has even said that if

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Speaker 4: a choice between Denmark and the United States, they would

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Speaker 4: take Denmark. What they want in the future is independence,

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Speaker 4: but they're not just going to swap one foreign sovereign

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Speaker 4: for another.

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Speaker 1: Why Greenland, David, The US has tried to purchase it

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Speaker 1: in the past, Why are they still pursuing it now.

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Speaker 4: So Greenland is very strategically important, and it's becoming more

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Speaker 4: strategically important as Arctic ice melts. That means that the

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Speaker 4: waterways around Greenland are potentially becoming very important both to

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Speaker 4: trade and to security. Now Donald Trump has claimed that

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Speaker 4: Greenland is surrounded by the navies of China and Russia.

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Speaker 4: There is no evidence for that at all, and today

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Speaker 4: Denmark's Prime minister said that there hasn't been a Chinese

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Speaker 4: boat anywhere near Greenland for the last ten years. But nonetheless,

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Speaker 4: Trump is claiming that there is this major security threat

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Speaker 4: to Greenland and that only the United States can actually

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Speaker 4: protect Greenland. Now, leaving aside the fact that the only

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Speaker 4: country that has in any way threatened Greenland with invasion

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Speaker 4: recently is the United States, we also need to remember

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Speaker 4: that the United States has pretty much unlimited military access

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Speaker 4: to Greenland already. The United States occupied Greenland during the

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Speaker 4: Second World War, so the US already has one pretty

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Speaker 4: significant military base there. It could expand the number of

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Speaker 4: military bases that it has if its major concern is security,

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Speaker 4: If its major concern is about control of those waterways,

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Speaker 4: it could achieve those without taking control of Greenland. What

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Speaker 4: Denmark and Greenland and NATO are trying to do now

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Speaker 4: is to instead make offers to the United States about

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Speaker 4: how they can fulfill their security objectives without having to

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Speaker 4: buy Greenland. So apparently one of the results of these

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Speaker 4: talks is been to set up a working party on

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Speaker 4: greenlanding security, where no doubt this is all going to

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Speaker 4: be discussed what the US can do to hands Greenland security.

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Speaker 4: The security of Greenland does not have to depend on

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Speaker 4: the United States buying it, no matter what Donald Trump says.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like when you go to a home

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Speaker 1: open and a rival competitor who wants to also buy

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Speaker 1: the house tries to point out the flaws in the

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Speaker 1: structure so you have a better chance of getting it yourself.

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Speaker 4: It is a bit like that. Certainly, he's painting this

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Speaker 4: very bleak picture of what the security of Greenland is like.

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Speaker 4: But the other thing that's at stake is Greenland has

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Speaker 4: potentially huge reserves of critical minerals, which the United States

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Speaker 4: is very eager to secure control of those because it

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Speaker 4: needs sources of critical minerals outside of China. The United

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Speaker 4: States and American companies could easily negotiate mineral deals there.

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Speaker 4: In fact, not that long ago, Greenland actually barred Chinese

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Speaker 4: mining companies from having access to critical minerals there, So

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Speaker 4: it would be right for the United States to negotiate

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Speaker 4: that kind of access instead of having to buy it.

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Speaker 1: David Trump has said that it is absolutely necessary for

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Speaker 1: the US to conquer Greenland.

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Speaker 2: What does that look like.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they've made it very clear it's not for sale,

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Speaker 1: so it's not going to be a civilized handshaken, a

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Speaker 1: contract signed. Is there a chance that it could end

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Speaker 1: up in something more severe like military invasion?

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Speaker 4: In the Trump presidency, we've learned never to take any

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Speaker 4: options of the table, and Trump has said that military

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Speaker 4: options are potentially on the table. Now I see that

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Speaker 4: as unlikely. There was a Quinnipiac poll in the US

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Speaker 4: that said that eighty six percent of Americans would be

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Speaker 4: opposed to an invasion of Greenland. If they invaded Greenland,

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Speaker 4: they would potentially conquer it very easily, but Americans would

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Speaker 4: hate the idea of American troops fighting Swedish and Danish

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Speaker 4: troops who would be the ones defending it. These are

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Speaker 4: countries that Americans regard as friendly. Americans are really at

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Speaker 4: the moment wanting Donald Trump to focus a lot more

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Speaker 4: on fixing domestic problems, especially the cost of living crisis

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Speaker 4: in the United States. It's not at all clear how

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Speaker 4: an invasion of Denmark, or an invasion of Greenland, or

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Speaker 4: even buying Greenland would actually help that in any way.

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Speaker 4: So even though we can't disregard the possibility of a

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Speaker 4: military invasion. I think that Trump would have to think

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Speaker 4: very carefully about that because the domestic political consequences of

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Speaker 4: it could be disastrous.

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Speaker 1: While we've got you, David, there's another US foreign policy

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Speaker 1: story that's currently developing, and that is of the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration's intervention into Iran.

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Speaker 2: Where do you see this one going.

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Speaker 4: One of the things I've been thinking about looking at

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Speaker 4: this is it is amazing how quickly ideas about intervention

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Speaker 4: and regime change have suddenly become so popular in the

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Speaker 4: Trump administration. And what we're seeing is that a lot

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Speaker 4: of his own supporters are very uncomfortable about the idea

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Speaker 4: of the United States undertaking these interventions in other countries,

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Speaker 4: which they promise are going to be very quick and

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Speaker 4: very limited. But we've seen those promises before. We saw

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Speaker 4: them in Vietnam, we saw them in Iraq, we saw

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Speaker 4: them in Afghanistan. When Trump says that the United States

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Speaker 4: is going to run Venezuela, that really sets off alarm

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Speaker 4: bells for Americans who can remember what happened when the

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Speaker 4: United States tried to run Iraq, intervening in Iran in

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Speaker 4: the Middle East in a country that has been a

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Speaker 4: long term enemy of the United States for more than

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Speaker 4: forty years. I think that people are really concerned because

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Speaker 4: there have been promises made before that when regime change happens,

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Speaker 4: all the people in the country will just happily overthrow

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Speaker 4: the hated regime and will adopt a regime that the

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Speaker 4: United States likes. We have seen in the past time

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Speaker 4: and time again that it often doesn't turn out that way.

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Speaker 4: So I think that Americans are going to be very

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Speaker 4: worried about the prospect of in Iran. It's still not

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Speaker 4: clear what that intervention would look like. Trump was potentially

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Speaker 4: talking about military action in Iran, which would presumably be

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Speaker 4: something along the lines of the kinds of air strikes

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Speaker 4: that are carried out in Iran last year, but it's

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Speaker 4: not clear how that would actually be able to top

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Speaker 4: all the regime. Regime change, as we've seen before, involves

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Speaker 4: far more involved military.

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Speaker 1: Action with military intervention, What does that actually look like?

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Speaker 1: What happens when the US says we're going to go

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Speaker 1: into this country full force.

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Speaker 4: If the United States was having to provide security for

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Speaker 4: the new regime, then that would involve troops on the ground.

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Speaker 4: If the United States was trying to forcibly remove the

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Speaker 4: old regime. Then it's hard to see how that could

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Speaker 4: be done through air strikes alone. Iran is nowhere near

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Speaker 4: as weak as Venezuela was, and the security apparatus of

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Speaker 4: the Iranian regime seems very determined to hang on given

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Speaker 4: the way that they have responded to protests. What Trump

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Speaker 4: is probably hoping for is that protesters themselves are going

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Speaker 4: to be able to overthrow the regime with minimal help

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Speaker 4: from the United States. But at the moment, it's very

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Speaker 4: unclear what any kind of help would actually look like. Militarily.

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Speaker 4: Trump has said that he believes that Iran has actually

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Speaker 4: stopped killing protesters, which may be a sign that he's

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Speaker 4: actually backing away from the idea of military action. Maybe

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Speaker 4: what he'll do instead is take up Iranian offers for

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Speaker 4: negotiations over Iran's nuclear program. At the moment, it's just

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Speaker 4: really unclear. And this is because Trump has a tendency

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Speaker 4: to really talk a very big game online in order

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Speaker 4: to try to threaten and intimidate countries into doing what

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Speaker 4: he wants before he needs to use force.

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Speaker 1: David, is this all part of the Trump playbook? I

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Speaker 1: mean this last two weeks alone, we've seen the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration in the headlines alongside Venezuela, alongside Greenland, Iran. In

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Speaker 1: the last twenty four hours, phase two of the gars

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Speaker 1: A ceasefire deal is set to roll out. Is the

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Speaker 1: idea here, we don't know where to look when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the US and foreign policy and foreign intervention.

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Speaker 4: Trump really values unpredictability. He really values keeping everybody off

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Speaker 4: guard all the time, and so all of these things

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Speaker 4: happening at once. It's very different from normal approaches to

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Speaker 4: international relations, where leaders try to keep issues contained and focused.

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Speaker 4: Trump's approach instead is try to do as much as

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Speaker 4: possible all at once, take everybody by surprise. Now, we've

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Speaker 4: got to remember we're still in the early stages of

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Speaker 4: all of these issues. We've just seen the removal of

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Speaker 4: Venezuela's leader, but it's really unclear what's going to happen next.

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Speaker 4: Iran is being convulsed by all these protests at the moment,

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Speaker 4: but again it's very unclear what's going to happen. Trump

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Speaker 4: really hopes that in all of these circumstances, just making

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Speaker 4: as big and as threatening a display of power as

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Speaker 4: possible is going to get his desired outcomes. He really

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Speaker 4: seems to believe that there are very few limits to

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Speaker 4: American power in the world at the moment, and he

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Speaker 4: certainly doesn't believe that American power can be constrained by

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Speaker 4: international law or international norms. In an interview that he

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Speaker 4: gave with The New York Times, he said that the

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Speaker 4: only constraint on his power is his own morality. In

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Speaker 4: other words, there are no international rules anymore. He's going

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Speaker 4: to be the one who makes the international rules.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with

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Speaker 1: us today.

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Speaker 2: Don't forget.

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Speaker 1: We're back for another news update in your afternoon break,

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Speaker 1: So make sure you're following The Quikie wherever you get

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