Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Mia acknowledges
Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
Speaker 1: is recorded on. We pay our respects to elders past,
Speaker 1: present and emerging, and feel privileged to continue the sharing
Speaker 1: of birth stories and knowledge that has been a fundamental
Speaker 1: part of Indigenous culture.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 1: I'm Cassenya Lukij and this is Diary of a birth.
Speaker 1: We've all heard the stories of women not planning on
Speaker 1: getting pregnant then whoops, positive pregnancy test. But imagine thinking
Speaker 1: you were done having kids and whoops, twins.
Speaker 2: I showed him the photo that had the two sacks
Speaker 2: on the screen and he just said, no, no, show
Speaker 2: me the real photo. And I said, this is the
Speaker 2: real photo, and then we both just started laughing. And
Speaker 2: we've just sort of been laughing our way through ever since.
Speaker 1: I pose. And while we know that pregnancy with multiples
Speaker 1: often ends in a C section, today's mum was relieved
Speaker 1: to find out she was cleared to attempt a vaginal delivery.
Speaker 2: They basically said because I had had a successful vaginal
Speaker 2: birth previously and have twin a head down, that I
Speaker 2: was a great candidate to attempt a vaginal twin birth.
Speaker 1: So let's meet today's mum.
Speaker 2: Hi. I'm Cassie Jackson and this is my birth story
Speaker 2: with my twins, Charlie and Luna.
Speaker 1: Seeking a quieter life with acreage, Cassie and Scott moved
Speaker 1: up to Mackay from Brisbane for Cassie's teaching job.
Speaker 2: So life before the twins we were going through a
Speaker 2: massive change within our family. We had just sold our
Speaker 2: house in Brisbane to move up to MacKaye, taking a
Speaker 2: bit of a gamble on a opportunity for me to
Speaker 2: get a teaching position in a rural area where we
Speaker 2: were very fortunate to get relocation and teacher subsidized housing
Speaker 2: and those sorts of things in place so that we
Speaker 2: could work towards our dream of buying an acreage property,
Speaker 2: which we knew was never going to happen if we
Speaker 2: stayed in Brisbane. We wanted to have that slower pace
Speaker 2: of life for our kids.
Speaker 1: With a thirteen year old step son and three year
Speaker 1: old daughter she shared with Scott, Cassie was looking forward
Speaker 1: to a fresh start in far North Queensland.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we weren't planning to have any more children. Within
Speaker 2: a space of a few weeks, I lost both of
Speaker 2: my grandfathers on my side of the family. And it
Speaker 2: was only a couple of weeks after that, during one
Speaker 2: of my grandfather's funerals, that I knew that there was
Speaker 2: just something else sort of going on, And so I
Speaker 2: took a test that night and it came up very
Speaker 2: very strong straight away. And I would have only been
Speaker 2: about three and a half weeks or so at that
Speaker 2: point in time, so it was definitely a bit of
Speaker 2: a shock, but also something that I sort of felt
Speaker 2: in my bones that there was some sort of other
Speaker 2: change that was still to come after all of the
Speaker 2: loss that we had just gone through. When I told Scott,
Speaker 2: my husband, that we were having twins, we just laughed
Speaker 2: our way through. It was during COVID time, so I
Speaker 2: had to go to the dating scan by myself as
Speaker 2: he had to stay home with our other children. And
Speaker 2: I saw those two sacks up on the screen, saw
Speaker 2: those two heartbeats, and we had had a little joke
Speaker 2: the night before as well that wouldn't it be funny
Speaker 2: if there was two heart beats, And so I showed
Speaker 2: him the photo that had the two sacks on the screen,
Speaker 2: and he just said, no, no, show me the real photo.
Speaker 2: And I said, no, this is the real photo. And
Speaker 2: you know then very sternly, no, where is the real photo?
Speaker 2: And I said, this is the real photo. And then
Speaker 2: we both just started laughing, and we've just sort of
Speaker 2: been laughing our way through ever since. I suppose.
Speaker 1: Given the added risk of multiples, Cassie was monitored closely,
Speaker 1: but by thirty six weeks and a very hot summer,
Speaker 1: Cassie was ready to meet her twins.
Speaker 2: From about my twenty week scan TWINB she liked to
Speaker 2: flip all over the place, but that was pretty common
Speaker 2: for a twin bee, and so they basically said, because
Speaker 2: I had had a successful vaginal birth previously and have
Speaker 2: twin a head down, that I was a great candidate
Speaker 2: to attempt a vaginal twin birth. From about thirty six
Speaker 2: and a half weeks, I was definitely ready for these
Speaker 2: babies to come out. It was the middle of a
Speaker 2: very hot summer in North Queensland. We had set everything up,
Speaker 2: the beds, nursery, all of those scenes. We were ready
Speaker 2: for these babies to come.
Speaker 1: Usually twins don't make it to full term, so hats
Speaker 1: off to Cassie for keeping those little ones in there
Speaker 1: till thirty eight weeks, but now it was time.
Speaker 2: I made it to thirty eight weeks. It was a Sunday.
Speaker 2: I knew that day that we were going into the
Speaker 2: hospital to have our next sort of check in. I
Speaker 2: was not leaving that hospital without them out of me.
Speaker 2: Really done by that stage. We went with the plan
Speaker 2: of getting induced, so they started the process of doing
Speaker 2: the induction. I stayed in the birthing sweet overnight that night,
Speaker 2: which was really great because Scott was able to stay
Speaker 2: with me. They set up a little cot for him
Speaker 2: in the side of the birthing sweet room. Because it
Speaker 2: was getting towards midnight. I was getting some really intense
Speaker 2: cramping pain, contraction type pain, which I think is quite
Speaker 2: common when it comes to the tape form of action.
Speaker 2: They were able to give me some morphine and that
Speaker 2: sort of slowed everything back down, and then the doctors
Speaker 2: all came in and manually broke my waters and started
Speaker 2: the whole process from there.
Speaker 1: Cassie's team had a loose birth plan, but things don't
Speaker 1: always go as expected.
Speaker 2: They were sort of checking on how bubbs were doing
Speaker 2: by having both of their heart rates monitored. They did
Speaker 2: an ultrasound to see where they were positioned to once
Speaker 2: again make sure that Twin A was still head down
Speaker 2: and to see what position Twin B was in. At
Speaker 2: that point in time she was breached. She was feet first.
Speaker 2: So we had reassessed and made sure that we knew
Speaker 2: what our plan was, and it was to attempt a
Speaker 2: vaginal birth for my twins in a way that's called
Speaker 2: a trial by theater birth. That basically just means that
Speaker 2: we were going to have the babies in the theater
Speaker 2: room so that if anything was to happen, we were
Speaker 2: already there. As where the birthing suite to the theater
Speaker 2: at the Mackay Base Hospital is very far away from
Speaker 2: each other, and they wanted to make sure that we
Speaker 2: were there just in case anything went wrong.
Speaker 1: Coming up. Charlie and Luna have their own birth plan.
Speaker 2: So I had the epidural. I am a teacher myself,
Speaker 2: so I am always open to allowing student doctors or
Speaker 2: junior doctors the opportunity to learn and practice. I did
Speaker 2: the same thing with my first pregnancy. He did have
Speaker 2: a couple of cracks at it and didn't quite get there,
Speaker 2: so the scene doctor took over and finished off the epidural.
Speaker 2: At that point in time they had done a quick
Speaker 2: dilation check and I was sitting at about three and
Speaker 2: a half centimeters dilated, and then it was just a
Speaker 2: waiting game to see how long it would take before
Speaker 2: I was in active labor and close to that ten
Speaker 2: centimeter dilation mark for us to move across to the
Speaker 2: theater rooms.
Speaker 1: With her epidural in place but patchy at best, Cassie
Speaker 1: was moving through labor the best that she could.
Speaker 2: After a couple of hours, I suppose my pain levels
Speaker 2: started to increase quite dramatically. So it turns out that
Speaker 2: the epidural that I had was patchy. That's the way
Speaker 2: that they described it, and essentially that just meant that
Speaker 2: I was feeling the entire body's worth of contractions in
Speaker 2: one spot, just in my right groin area. So I'm
Speaker 2: curled over, screaming in so much pain, feeling like this
Speaker 2: is it. I'm not going to survive this pain, and
Speaker 2: telling them I've had an epidural before. I know that
Speaker 2: there is something wrong here. This is not right. I
Speaker 2: need the anethesis to come back and have another look.
Speaker 2: I felt like if I tried to lay down flat,
Speaker 2: that my body was going to explode or something. It
Speaker 2: just felt like I needed to stay in that curled
Speaker 2: up fetal position to stay alive. At that point, the
Speaker 2: midwives managed to convince me that the anethesis was on
Speaker 2: his way, that he was going to check the epidural.
Speaker 2: They said that they needed to check my cervix now.
Speaker 2: They managed to get me to lie down and the
Speaker 2: midwives said to me, look, you're probably not going to
Speaker 2: be much further past three and a half centimeters looking
Speaker 2: at the screens. You're only having two contractions every ten minutes.
Speaker 2: You're not even inactive labor, but we just need to check.
Speaker 2: I will never forget the midwives voice when she said, okay,
Speaker 2: so we're ten plus one, and then really all hell
Speaker 2: broke loose from there. I don't think anyone was expecting
Speaker 2: me to be anywhere close to ten centimeters, let alone
Speaker 2: thinking that I was even going to be five centimeters.
Speaker 2: So I think the doctors all thought that they had
Speaker 2: hours and hours and hours before anything was going to happen.
Speaker 2: And I think that because everything happened so much quicker
Speaker 2: than expected, it definitely led to a lot of the
Speaker 2: further complications coming up because we just weren't prepared in
Speaker 2: the way that we sort of should have been.
Speaker 1: I suppose Cassie's medical team sprang into action with the
Speaker 1: drama worthy of a script written by Shonda Rhimes.
Speaker 2: It was absolute chaos. There were people everywhere, So I
Speaker 2: had the midwives, my doctors, the assistants all getting ready
Speaker 2: to wheel me up to the theater room and to
Speaker 2: get up there straight away. It was the quickest way
Speaker 2: to get to the theater room from the birthing suite
Speaker 2: at the Mackai Hospital is to go through the public corridors.
Speaker 2: So here I am legs up, crowning with my boy
Speaker 2: Charlie and getting run through these corridors while I am
Speaker 2: still having these intense contractions, you know, screaming in pain.
Speaker 2: While there are people who are just going about their
Speaker 2: normal day to day business at the hospital. I'm sure
Speaker 2: that they would have had the shock of their lives.
Speaker 2: And I'm turning to Scott and I'm saying to him,
Speaker 2: they can all see, they can all see what's going on.
Speaker 2: And you know, he was turning to me and saying, no, no,
Speaker 2: they can't see anything. It's all okay, come on, we're
Speaker 2: going to go. We're going It's all going to be
Speaker 2: okay now. And it was a couple of weeks after.
Speaker 2: He said to me when we were reliving it all,
Speaker 2: he said, yeah, they probably could see some stuff, but
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to tell you that then.
Speaker 1: And there sometimes lies are for the best.
Speaker 2: We're getting closer and closer towards the theater room and
Speaker 2: exiting I suppose the public section of the hospital, and
Speaker 2: it really was a scene like straight out of Grey's Anatomy.
Speaker 2: So Charlie was twin a he was head down, he
Speaker 2: was good to go. He had engaged, so they were
Speaker 2: really ready for him to come straight out. As soon
Speaker 2: as we got up there, I come into the theater
Speaker 2: room and there are just people everywhere. Now I'm talking
Speaker 2: forty to fifty people in this room. Because we had
Speaker 2: my whole team of doctors, we had the theater team
Speaker 2: of doctors. We had two sets of pedutricians for each
Speaker 2: baby and their teams. So I've got all these people
Speaker 2: coming up to me, putting their faces right up close
Speaker 2: to my head. Turns out that there was some miscommunication
Speaker 2: between my doctor team and the theater doctor team. In
Speaker 2: the theater's mind, I was coming up for an emergency
Speaker 2: C section for both twins, so in their head they
Speaker 2: needed to replace my epidural with a full spinal tap.
Speaker 2: They did do the spinal tap on me. My midwife
Speaker 2: all of a sudden appeared Scott was next to me, thankfully,
Speaker 2: and my midwife, she was the first one to put
Speaker 2: two and two together that, oh, they think that she's
Speaker 2: here for a C section. She literally body blocked me
Speaker 2: when the doctor was coming in ready to cut twin
Speaker 2: a out. So my midwife turned to them and said,
Speaker 2: she's here to push. She's here to push, And then
Speaker 2: it was put two and two together. Oh, well, she's
Speaker 2: had a spinal tap, so that's going to make things
Speaker 2: extremely difficult. But we're going to try this. We're going
Speaker 2: to try to push him out. We will use fourceps
Speaker 2: if we need to, but he is ready to go.
Speaker 2: Let's see if we can get him out still in
Speaker 2: the way that we wanted to with having a full
Speaker 2: spinal tap. I could not feel a single thing from
Speaker 2: my neck down. I could have been just grinning a
Speaker 2: ginormous smile. I can't feel a single thing. I don't
Speaker 2: know if I'm even pushing. Then they decided to get
Speaker 2: the forceps out and were able to get Charlie out
Speaker 2: with forceps and they put him straight onto my chest.
Speaker 2: When he was on my chest, he was quite a
Speaker 2: bluish color. He wasn't crying. They ended up taking him
Speaker 2: off of my chest and straight over to his pediatric team,
Speaker 2: where I then didn't know what was happening. No one
Speaker 2: gave me any updates of whether he was okay. I
Speaker 2: still couldn't hear him crying. There was a lot of commotion,
Speaker 2: and I kept saying, is he okay? My husband, Scott
Speaker 2: kept turning to me and saying, okay, we need to
Speaker 2: get our girl out now. We need to focus on
Speaker 2: getting our girl out and making sure that I was
Speaker 2: ready to go again. Could get Luna to Quinn b
Speaker 2: out safely, But in my head, I was petrified, and
Speaker 2: I think more than that, I was so overwhelmed with
Speaker 2: everything that had all happened and everything that I knew
Speaker 2: was still to come. I felt like I had that
Speaker 2: tunnel vision of just needing to know that he was okay.
Speaker 2: The doctors were saying to Scott, we need to get
Speaker 2: her to refocus now. Scott ended up turning to me
Speaker 2: and saying, like, yep, they gave me the thumbs up.
Speaker 2: He's fine, He's good to go. Let's do this now.
Speaker 2: He told me again later that that was the second
Speaker 2: time that day that he lied to me because he
Speaker 2: had absolutely no idea, but he knew that I wasn't
Speaker 2: going to be able to focus on getting our girl
Speaker 2: out safely if I thought that there was anything going
Speaker 2: on untoward with Charlie.
Speaker 1: And just like that, baby Charlie was born, but Cassie
Speaker 1: wasn't done yet.
Speaker 2: He had been told the morning of that the plan
Speaker 2: was once Charlie was out, that we would have an
Speaker 2: ultrasound done to locate and see what position twin B
Speaker 2: or lunar was in. If she was still feet first,
Speaker 2: we would be attempting what's called a foot extraction, where
Speaker 2: the doctor puts their hand up through the vagina and
Speaker 2: into the uterus and will grab the baby by the
Speaker 2: feet and pull them back through the canal to deliver safely.
Speaker 2: There are a couple of risks involved with that. The
Speaker 2: main one that we were told was that they could
Speaker 2: not break her amniotic sack because twin A's placenta and
Speaker 2: his sack and all of his fluids and his maconium,
Speaker 2: all of those things would be in there with her,
Speaker 2: and that could lead to serious complications and serious risk
Speaker 2: of infection and all of those other types of things.
Speaker 2: If she had flipped around and was headfirst, that chances
Speaker 2: are she would engage on her own and just come
Speaker 2: on out. The doctor put his hand up and started
Speaker 2: searching for her feet. He is searching around, and he
Speaker 2: turned to the other senior doctor and said, I can't
Speaker 2: find it. You have a go. So the second doctor
Speaker 2: came in and she went on up and was also
Speaker 2: you know, attempting to locate Luna's feet, which they still
Speaker 2: initially thought was feet first. The midwife, my saving grace,
Speaker 2: my guardian angel. On that day. She was like, get
Speaker 2: that old rasound machine over here now, and so we
Speaker 2: did that and found that she actually had flipped around,
Speaker 2: as she quite often did anyway, and she was head first.
Speaker 1: I have nothing but the utmost respect for midwives. They
Speaker 1: are heroes.
Speaker 2: At this point in time, though, the senior head consultant,
Speaker 2: she was starting to get a bit worried about how
Speaker 2: things were progressing, and decided that she was going to
Speaker 2: be the third doctor to attempt a foot extraction. She
Speaker 2: had done it previously and said that even with her
Speaker 2: being now head first, she was able to get all
Speaker 2: the way up and be able to essentially pull her
Speaker 2: around and down, so she was elbow deep in me.
Speaker 2: We had no curtain up or anything like that because
Speaker 2: it wasn't a C section at this point in time,
Speaker 2: And so I could look down and see this woman's
Speaker 2: face as she is searching around for my daughter's feet
Speaker 2: inside of me. I could see the panic in her
Speaker 2: eyes when the monitors were going off saying that baby
Speaker 2: was in distress, and she said, I just need one
Speaker 2: more goal at this, I just need one more goal
Speaker 2: with this to try to do the foot extraction. But unfortunately,
Speaker 2: during that process, her amniotic SAP was broken, her stats plummeted,
Speaker 2: her heart rate was down into the sixties, and my
Speaker 2: midwife said to me the next day she knew at
Speaker 2: that point there was absolutely no other option. We had
Speaker 2: to do the emergency C section straight away as Luna's
Speaker 2: life was in danger.
Speaker 1: So how did Cassie feel after her emergency sea section?
Speaker 2: For all intents and purposes, the sea section was done flawlessly.
Speaker 2: I have recovered really, really well. I didn't have any
Speaker 2: issues in regards to infection or scarring and all of
Speaker 2: those sorts of things. But when Luna came out, her
Speaker 2: at birth Apgar score was two. One is the lowest
Speaker 2: that you can go. So they got her out. They
Speaker 2: put her straight into the incubator. Her pediatric team said
Speaker 2: we need to go now. They turned to Scott who
Speaker 2: was right by my side, and they said to him, Dad,
Speaker 2: are you coming. He turned to me and he said,
Speaker 2: what do you want me to do? And I said,
Speaker 2: go with them. So he got up straight away, gave
Speaker 2: me a big kiss, said you've got this, and he
Speaker 2: went off with both Charlie and Luna straight down to
Speaker 2: the special care nursery, so that he was there with them,
Speaker 2: and it made me feel obviously a big pang of
Speaker 2: jealousy that he was with them, but I knew that
Speaker 2: they weren't alone, and they had one of us there,
Speaker 2: and that was the most important thing to me at
Speaker 2: that point in time. Charlie had recovered. I suppose by
Speaker 2: that stage he's doing really, really well, but it was
Speaker 2: Luna that we were worried about.
Speaker 1: After a truly traumatic and dramatic birth. Cassie was eager
Speaker 1: to spend time with both her babies and make sure
Speaker 1: they were okay.
Speaker 2: I knew that Luna was not doing well at all.
Speaker 2: They had told me that they needed to get her
Speaker 2: down straight away and get her onto the cepat machine,
Speaker 2: the bubbles and all of those other things, because her
Speaker 2: life was still in grave danger. She had been deprived
Speaker 2: of oxygen for a period of time throughout the birthing process,
Speaker 2: and I was being, let's just say, a bit of
Speaker 2: a pain in the ass, saying, how are my babies?
Speaker 2: Can we get an update on the babies? Are they okay?
Speaker 2: Is Luna okay? They kept telling me to just have
Speaker 2: a rest. Your body has been through so much. Have
Speaker 2: a sleep, You'll feel so much better. Just kept saying,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to rest. I need I need to
Speaker 2: see them. I need to know that they're okay. There
Speaker 2: was one nurse in particular. She turned to me, she said,
Speaker 2: you're not going to sleep, are you? I said, no chance.
Speaker 2: So she went and got me a yellow zoopa dupa
Speaker 2: to get my sugar levels back up because she could
Speaker 2: see how hard I was fighting the sleep when my
Speaker 2: whole body was obviously just craving it, but my mind
Speaker 2: was never going to let that happen. So eventually, after
Speaker 2: I'd say a couple of hours in the recovery ward,
Speaker 2: my beautiful midwife came back up, and she was up
Speaker 2: to get me to take me back down. I had
Speaker 2: gotten enough movement in my feet and my body at
Speaker 2: that point for them to be happy for me to
Speaker 2: leave the recovery ward. And as soon as she turned
Speaker 2: the corner, I could see the smile on her face,
Speaker 2: and I just knew that everything was going to be okay.
Speaker 2: And she told me that Charlie was doing fantastic, that
Speaker 2: he was having some skin to skin time with Dad,
Speaker 2: and that Luna was off the bubble machine, but she
Speaker 2: was just staying in the incubator for a little bit longer,
Speaker 2: just to make sure that everything was still going okay.
Speaker 2: But she was definitely out of that mortal danger side
Speaker 2: of things by that point in time. So she wheeled
Speaker 2: me down, wheeled me down to the Special Care nursery,
Speaker 2: and Charlie was still having some beautiful skin to skin
Speaker 2: time cuddles with Dad, and he was right next to
Speaker 2: the incubator with Luna in there. They had said that
Speaker 2: she was a feisty little thing and ripped the dummy
Speaker 2: out of her mouth and threw it straight through the
Speaker 2: little hole in the side of the incubator. They said,
Speaker 2: she's got to be a basketball player or a netball
Speaker 2: player or something when she gets older. Once I was
Speaker 2: down there and they had given me those little updates
Speaker 2: that it was time for Charlie to come over to
Speaker 2: have some skin to skin cudd all time with me,
Speaker 2: and that Luna would be ready very soon. They just
Speaker 2: wanted to do one last check on her. So I
Speaker 2: had some cuddles with Charlie and it was just so beautiful,
Speaker 2: you know, having Luna right there next to me. I
Speaker 2: was still able to put my hand in and touch
Speaker 2: her and everything like that. Obviously she was fully cooked,
Speaker 2: I suppose at thirty eight weeks, so it was fully
Speaker 2: safe to do all that had Charlie on me, and
Speaker 2: it just felt so much relief that after everything that
Speaker 2: we had gone through over those past couple of hours,
Speaker 2: and really there was thirteen minutes between the two berths,
Speaker 2: so what felt like hours and hours and hours of
Speaker 2: all of these crazy things happening was really over only
Speaker 2: on the space of you know, half an hour. The
Speaker 2: doctors came and did another check on Luna and they
Speaker 2: said that she was fine to come out to the incubator.
Speaker 2: She was put on my chest as well, so I
Speaker 2: had both babies on me, had Scott right there by
Speaker 2: my side. The midwife came in and she took the
Speaker 2: most beautiful photo of the flour of us. I look
Speaker 2: absolutely wrecked in this photo. I am yellow in color
Speaker 2: in comparison to the babies. Just the amount of stress
Speaker 2: that my body had gone through had obviously caused this
Speaker 2: yellowing sort of color. It looked like I had one
Speaker 2: epic spray tan. But it was all good. It was
Speaker 2: all for the best. I look back at that photo
Speaker 2: with such immense pride that we not only survived, but
Speaker 2: thrived from such an awful experience, and where we are
Speaker 2: now to that point in time, never thinking that would
Speaker 2: be in the position that we are now to have
Speaker 2: two such beautiful, healthy babies or toddlers. I look back
Speaker 2: at that photo with just such immense pride in myself
Speaker 2: and joy that I achieved that.
Speaker 1: So what is life really like with twins?
Speaker 2: It's a total cliche when they talk about double trouble,
Speaker 2: and how much on the other side of it, twins
Speaker 2: are an absolute blessing. There are days that you think,
Speaker 2: how on earth am I going to survive another day
Speaker 2: raising these twins, because they're just crazy. But other days
Speaker 2: we look at them and just think it's a miracle
Speaker 2: that they are here, and watching them giggle at each
Speaker 2: other and laugh and play with each other is just
Speaker 2: so beautiful, and it's just amazing being a twin mum.
Speaker 2: I can't describe it any other way. When you talk
Speaker 2: to people about having twins, it's the same reaction that
Speaker 2: I would have had to years ago or three years ago, saying,
Speaker 2: oh my goodness, I can't imagine that would be my
Speaker 2: worst nightmare. I've had people say that to me in
Speaker 2: front of me. It's such a journey to go on
Speaker 2: to be a twin mom or a multiple mum. But
Speaker 2: you know, really, at the end of the day, you
Speaker 2: wouldn't have it any other way. They are just they
Speaker 2: are just amazing. And Luna still has her struggles. Obviously,
Speaker 2: she was born in a very traumatic way. She has
Speaker 2: low muscle tone because she was deprived of oxygen at birth.
Speaker 2: She has been diagnosed with a global developmental delay, so
Speaker 2: she's currently receiving therapy in physioot and speech. Who knows
Speaker 2: what would have happened if her birth wasn't the way
Speaker 2: that it was. Will never know whether or not she
Speaker 2: would have had the same issues, but she is thriving
Speaker 2: in all of her therapies, and she's just doing amazing.
Speaker 2: When she has her moments, she definitely has her moments,
Speaker 2: But when she laughs and giggles, she's a big cuddler.
Speaker 2: She just wants all of the culors in the world.
Speaker 1: This week, we're lucky enough to have obstetrician Bronwin Devine,
Speaker 1: who delivered both my babies, to explain the medical perspective.
Speaker 1: If you're committed to a vaginal birth with twins, why
Speaker 1: do we often need to pivot to an intervention?
Speaker 3: The problem with twins is they're quite unpredictable and can
Speaker 3: be really tricky. So while vaginal birth is definitely the
Speaker 3: preferred mode for lots of women, sometimes you'll find with
Speaker 3: twins what can happen is the first twin can come
Speaker 3: out vaginally, and then once the first one is out,
Speaker 3: the second one can do all sorts of funny things.
Speaker 3: It can turn itself upside down, It can decide that
Speaker 3: the right way to come out for it is to
Speaker 3: come out shoulder first, or it can let its own
Speaker 3: unbeliable core drop out. Sometimes the placenta can come away quickly,
Speaker 3: or sometimes it can just take a very long time
Speaker 3: for the second twin to get itself into a position
Speaker 3: to be able to be borne easily. So there are
Speaker 3: sometimes occasions with planned twin vaginal births where the first
Speaker 3: twin comes out vaginally, and no matter how hard we
Speaker 3: want the second one to come out vaginally, it just
Speaker 3: isn't gonna happen that way. So we always say to
Speaker 3: women who are planning a vaginal birth with twins, we
Speaker 3: would aim for both bubs to come out vaginally, but
Speaker 3: if the second one does something strange and unpredictable, it
Speaker 3: may be that we have to go and do a
Speaker 3: Caesar for the second one.
Speaker 1: And doctor Devine wants to ease people's fear of forceps.
Speaker 3: I do get a lot of people who say to me, look,
Speaker 3: whatever you do, I'd really prefer you not to use forceps.
Speaker 3: They sound terrible, they look scary. And I went to
Speaker 3: my birth classes and they show you know, they showed
Speaker 3: us a vacuum, they showed us the forceps, and I
Speaker 3: definitely would not want to have those people. Do think
Speaker 3: it's some relic of the eighteen hundreds, where.
Speaker 2: It was a question of just you know, doing whatever
Speaker 2: you can.
Speaker 3: And you know that sort of thing. Having said that,
Speaker 3: there are definitely instances where forceps are a very useful
Speaker 3: instrument to use, and they're a very good instrument to use,
Speaker 3: and some babies really dislike the pushing stage where their
Speaker 3: head's coming down. They find that it's causing them to
Speaker 3: have reductions in the amount of oxygen that they're getting
Speaker 3: and they really start to complain. And if we leave
Speaker 3: babies in that situation, they can be born in a
Speaker 3: very bad state. Indeed, so as long as you've got
Speaker 3: someone who's comfortable using forceps and is experienced using forceps,
Speaker 3: and he's gentle with the forceps, then there are times
Speaker 3: in childbirth where forceps can be the absolutely right instrument
Speaker 3: to use.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us on Diary of a Birth,
Speaker 1: where we celebrate all the amazing ways that we as
Speaker 1: women bring life into the world. If you'd like to
Speaker 1: share your birth story with us, we'd love to hear
Speaker 1: from you. Details are in the show notes. Diary of
Speaker 1: a Birth was hosted by me Cassena Lukitch, with expert
Speaker 1: advice from doctor Devine. This episode was produced by Tom
Speaker 1: Lyon and myself Cassena Lukitch, with audio production by Scott Stronach.