Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3: Welcome to mommea out loud where women come to debrief.
Speaker 1: I am Jesse Stevens, I'm mea Friedman, and I'm m Burnham.
Speaker 3: And here's what we're talking about today, Friday, the fourth
Speaker 3: of July. The trick being used by real estate agents
Speaker 3: that renters have had enough of.
Speaker 1: Plus, you're a bitch and that's why we lack community.
Speaker 1: We are going to unpack the idea of this small
Speaker 1: favor economy and an essay that we all read that
Speaker 1: punch me in the herd a little bit and it
Speaker 1: could change how you think about loneliness and friendship and
Speaker 1: what you're doing with your life.
Speaker 2: And recommendations. Jesse is busting to tell us about a
Speaker 2: documentary with significantly less poop than the last one. Mia
Speaker 2: has just discovered Miss Rachel, and I need to tell
Speaker 2: you about a thirty dollars beauty product that I should
Speaker 2: have tried months ago.
Speaker 1: Before we start the show, though, I want to call
Speaker 1: a little meeting to discuss bitch diesel. We spoke about
Speaker 1: it on the show last week. I can't remember how
Speaker 1: it came up. I don't think you were even here.
Speaker 4: So let's forget who started.
Speaker 1: We gave you credit, Okay, you stated give me credit,
Speaker 1: so to catch people up who might have missed the show.
Speaker 1: Bitch diesel is what people call just what.
Speaker 2: People I can't coin the term. I guess I made
Speaker 2: a FROs.
Speaker 1: You made it famous in our live show. You did
Speaker 1: a little bit and you'd referred to rose, and men
Speaker 1: called cool.
Speaker 4: People call it bitch diesel.
Speaker 1: Okay, So then we started talking about how all these
Speaker 1: celebrities have their own.
Speaker 3: Megan Markle brand new rose coming. I think just this
Speaker 3: week she dropped it.
Speaker 1: Kylie's got a rose. I think Brad Pitt's got a rose.
Speaker 3: That all the cool people have a rose, which got
Speaker 3: us thinking.
Speaker 1: Should we have a rose? And we kind of just said, hey,
Speaker 1: maybe we should. So then we got inundated winemakers, alcohol companies,
Speaker 1: people saying we would like to make this dream come
Speaker 1: true and make out loud bitch diesel. Yes, do you
Speaker 1: think we should do it?
Speaker 3: I'm totally on board. I think this is a community assignment.
Speaker 3: I think what could be fun is that only one
Speaker 3: of us here has any business have we and I
Speaker 3: think I'm going to keep forgetting. Yes, I'll bring the
Speaker 3: vibes and the energy. What are you going to bring them?
Speaker 2: I brought the name, so I'm quite interested in the
Speaker 2: splitting of the.
Speaker 1: Profits Bitch Diesel and the tasting and has some questions
Speaker 1: about IP I think, yeah, I should have had this
Speaker 1: conversation before we did this.
Speaker 4: Clearly true.
Speaker 1: So there's all these things to consider. Also whether the
Speaker 1: word bitch is a problem or are we reclaiming it? Oh?
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: Okay, we've reclaimed it.
Speaker 3: Let's bring me out loud.
Speaker 1: That's going to taste good, So let's out loud. As
Speaker 1: We're going to venture ahead into this new world of
Speaker 1: Bitch Diesel and launching our own rose potentially. We will
Speaker 1: keep you updated with regular installments, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: teach these bitches how to start a business.
Speaker 4: So oh, free learning.
Speaker 1: Maybe by the end of it, Jesse, you will be
Speaker 1: able to pronounce the word entrepreneur.
Speaker 3: No, I still can't.
Speaker 2: In case you miss it, there is some new lingo
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five that I need to talk to
Speaker 2: you guys about because I'm tired of saying phrases and
Speaker 2: neither of you two understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: I thought we did very good fake faces where we
Speaker 3: act like we're going along with it, but we have
Speaker 3: no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: I like to make this some regular segment because you know,
Speaker 1: when you become aware that you are not using current lingo, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like the word lingo for example. So I'm here for
Speaker 1: this to learn some more some language.
Speaker 2: Okay, So in today's lesson, we're going to go over
Speaker 2: two phrases. And now I don't want you to take
Speaker 2: because I know what you guys do. You take these
Speaker 2: phrases and you just run wild with them and you
Speaker 2: use them all the time until they become uncol and
Speaker 2: you keep using them.
Speaker 1: Like skibbity toilet. I've only guess stoped. We're done.
Speaker 4: We're done with skimney toilet. We're done with that.
Speaker 2: The first phrase I want to go over is crashing out.
Speaker 2: Have you heard of this term?
Speaker 3: On TikTok they're always talking about crashing out.
Speaker 4: Yes, you're close.
Speaker 2: So crashing out is the new nervy bee, like a
Speaker 2: nervous breakdown. So it means when you're about to have
Speaker 2: some sort of emotional or physical breakdown. It's basically crashing out,
Speaker 2: not to be So the tense is really important here
Speaker 2: because you know how sometimes I'll be like, hey, Mia,
Speaker 2: what did you do when you got home last night?
Speaker 2: And you're like, oh, I just went to bed and
Speaker 2: crashed out.
Speaker 4: That's different. That means I'm just going to bed. I'm tired.
Speaker 2: But if you were to say I went home and
Speaker 2: I was crashing out or I'm about to crash out,
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, burnout. If you don't address this right now, something.
Speaker 4: Could go right.
Speaker 3: So this is when jen z have a feeling, Okay.
Speaker 1: I'm crashing out. I think I've been crashing out for
Speaker 1: almost twenty years. Is that a thing that could be true?
Speaker 4: No, I think that's just burnout.
Speaker 1: I think crashing out is like really in the.
Speaker 2: Moment, like it's happening right now, and you're running on
Speaker 2: an empty tank, and if you don't address it right now,
Speaker 2: then something bad.
Speaker 3: All right, So millennials would call this losing your shit, wigging.
Speaker 4: Out, I'm having a breakdown.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, all that, and some of the language that
Speaker 3: we use around this not very politically correct, not very
Speaker 3: sensitive to people with legitimate mental illnesses. So I think
Speaker 3: crashing out is a way to say it that is sensitive.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so instead of saying I'm having a mentibe having
Speaker 1: a nerve bee, we say I'm crashing yeah. H.
Speaker 2: You can say about someone else like oh, I feel
Speaker 2: like you're crashing out right now, and you'll be like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I feel it.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: The next phrase I want to go over is locking in.
Speaker 3: I've been hearing this one around quite a bit.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: So locking in means putting extreme focus on a single
Speaker 2: task and ignoring all other distractions.
Speaker 3: Is when gen Z puts their phone down. I feel
Speaker 3: like gen.
Speaker 1: Z ONCEHD takes their meds yes, yes, or is just
Speaker 1: very interested in something even if you haven't taken your medal.
Speaker 3: I was reading about this though, and it's like I
Speaker 3: locked in and cleaned my room. I was like, no,
Speaker 3: you just did a job. You just put your phone
Speaker 3: out and you made a meal, and now in a
Speaker 3: locked in.
Speaker 2: No, it actually works like locked into something I tell
Speaker 2: myself all the time. If I'm meant to be writing
Speaker 2: an article, don't tell my boss, ma'am, don't listen. If
Speaker 2: I'm meant to be writing an article but I'm scrolling
Speaker 2: my phone, I literally go to myself lock in, bitch.
Speaker 4: And then I'll just start writing my article like that.
Speaker 2: And you're on your computer and someone comes up to
Speaker 2: talk to you, I'll be like, she's locked in.
Speaker 1: Doesn't matter what tense I use, doesn't matter. I can
Speaker 1: say locked in, locking.
Speaker 2: In, locking in, yeah, lock in, Okay, So now I'm
Speaker 2: going to lock in and continue the rest of this episode.
Speaker 3: Love it.
Speaker 1: There's a new kind of selfishness that masquerades as healing.
Speaker 1: It wears skin care and cancelations like armor. It calls
Speaker 1: everything a boundary and nothing a bridge. You know, the type.
Speaker 1: They won't come to your dinner because they're listening to
Speaker 1: their body, but they'll watch three hours of tiktoks alone
Speaker 1: and call it self care. They believe they're owed the
Speaker 1: fruits of community without ever touching the soil. No awkward
Speaker 1: small talk, no showing up early or staying late, just vibes.
Speaker 1: They think putting themselves first is some kind of moral
Speaker 1: high ground. But what they don't realize is that when
Speaker 1: everyone chooses themselves, no one chooses each other. And that's
Speaker 1: how the world ends, not with a bang, but with
Speaker 1: a thousand unopened invitations. These are the words of a
Speaker 1: writer called Maser who has a newsletter called Personal Scriptures,
Speaker 1: and producer Ruth put this into our consideration set to
Speaker 1: talk about on the show.
Speaker 3: Do you think she's trying to tell us that we're
Speaker 3: a bitch?
Speaker 1: Well, the newsletter was called You're a bitch, that's why
Speaker 1: we lack community.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't want to get sent back.
Speaker 1: It immediately got me and it is the most extraordinary
Speaker 1: piece about Yeah, this idea of we all complained about community.
Speaker 1: We all complain that we're lonely, but none of us
Speaker 1: want to inconvenience ourselves to show up for someone else
Speaker 1: or help someone else, or do anything that's out of
Speaker 1: our comfort zone. You know.
Speaker 4: We have a lot of.
Speaker 1: Talk about boundaries. And after I read that, there were
Speaker 1: two other things that I saw this week which sort
Speaker 1: of I want to unpack all of them together. One
Speaker 1: was a TikTok about the small favor economy, which also
Speaker 1: relates to this idea of community.
Speaker 5: Listen, I think it's okay to ask your friends for
Speaker 5: ride to the airport, even lax, even at rush hour.
Speaker 5: And actually it's more than okay. It's radical because there's
Speaker 5: this thing called the small favors economy and the idea
Speaker 5: is essentially that in the past, people used to rely
Speaker 5: on their community, their network, their neighbors for small favors,
Speaker 5: things like rides to the airport, things like a cup
Speaker 5: of sugar, things like borrowing a dress for an event.
Speaker 5: But now with late stage capitalism, those things all seem
Speaker 5: like rude for us to ask, because we could just
Speaker 5: do them ourselves, Like we could just call an uber
Speaker 5: instead of inconveniencing a friend, or we could order a
Speaker 5: dress on Amazon and have it get there tomorrow, or
Speaker 5: we could like post made our groceries instead of like
Speaker 5: asking around if anyone has anything. And that's actually really
Speaker 5: bad because it drives us further into isolation from each
Speaker 5: other and from our friends, which is good for literally
Speaker 5: no one except for the people who are trying to
Speaker 5: sell us stuff on our phones.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit longer, but that's just the crux
Speaker 1: of it. That's a digital strategist and content cretic called
Speaker 1: Amelia Montooth. And then I read this story in The
Speaker 1: Atlantic about how a wedding is a real test of
Speaker 1: how many people will help you and how big events
Speaker 1: in life, whether it's you know, a breakup or funeral
Speaker 1: law or a wedding. You then really see people will
Speaker 1: offer help, and it's a really good idea to accept
Speaker 1: that help.
Speaker 3: So the TikTok In particular, what she's talking about is
Speaker 3: a studied psychological phenomenon called the Ben Franklin effect. The
Speaker 3: Ben Franklin effect is the idea that people like you
Speaker 3: more when they do you a favor. So it's like
Speaker 3: a psychological trick.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: I walk into work and I say, am, I am
Speaker 3: running so late. I've got this segment that I meant
Speaker 3: to prepare for. Can you just write me a few notes?
Speaker 3: They wonder if it's because of cognitive dissonance, which is,
Speaker 3: if you're sitting at your desk doing my notes for me,
Speaker 3: then you're thinking, I must really like Jesse, Like, if
Speaker 3: I'm doing this, I must really like her.
Speaker 2: Can I say I must really like Jesse while also
Speaker 2: saying God, this lazy bitch.
Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing is, I think we all assume
Speaker 3: that people are going to resent us because we've asked
Speaker 3: them to do a favor.
Speaker 1: Surely, resentment kicks in after a certain.
Speaker 3: Pouse, exactly after a certain inflection point, but generally speaking.
Speaker 1: That inflection point's called married.
Speaker 3: We really enjoy doing favors for each other. People really
Speaker 3: enjoy it. They like feeling helpful. There's also something called
Speaker 3: reciprocity of liking is what the phenomenon's called. And basically,
Speaker 3: if mea thinks I like her, then she's more likely
Speaker 3: to like me. And when you ask someone for a favor,
Speaker 3: often it suggests that they like you.
Speaker 1: So it's an intimacy.
Speaker 3: It's a real level of trust.
Speaker 1: It is. And what I thought was amazing about both
Speaker 1: the essay by Maser and this TikTok by Amelia was
Speaker 1: this idea of how capitalism is robbing us of this,
Speaker 1: how we've commoditized community air Tasker to Uber, to Amazon,
Speaker 1: to all of these enormous corporations, and so we've stopped
Speaker 1: asking each other for favors, and we've stopped offering to
Speaker 1: do things for other people. Yeah, even making a meal.
Speaker 1: We now can just go and buy something.
Speaker 2: I wonder if the essay is less about capitalism but
Speaker 2: more about just how society has changed in the way
Speaker 2: where at a point we used to be embarrassed for
Speaker 2: having to cancel plans or not want to go out
Speaker 2: and not want to see people, and now it's just
Speaker 2: so common to accept an excuse like, Hey, I'm actually
Speaker 2: feeling really really tired, do you mind if I just
Speaker 2: stay home today? Like people are just being so so
Speaker 2: honest to why they don't want to go out.
Speaker 1: But don't you think that that has been I'm going
Speaker 1: to say selfishness in air quotes. But this idea of
Speaker 1: putting yourself first always has become this moral high ground,
Speaker 1: as if by putting myself first, I'm actually doing something
Speaker 1: really great.
Speaker 4: As a person.
Speaker 2: If you're going to do that exactly what you said
Speaker 2: before me, and when you do it over and over again,
Speaker 2: because it's good to put yourself first, but that means
Speaker 2: you're putting someone else last, and it's usually the person
Speaker 2: that you're either canceling on or you said you're going
Speaker 2: to make plans with and you don't want to see anymore.
Speaker 2: I feel like everyone will have a person in their
Speaker 2: life who they used to be friends with, and then
Speaker 2: the same person will just cancel and cancel and cancel,
Speaker 2: and you might keep inviting them out again, but you're
Speaker 2: less likely to coming to the wedding example, you're less
Speaker 2: likely to lean on them for help because you're so
Speaker 2: scared that they're going to cancel on you and not
Speaker 2: show up, you're less likely to If you have an
Speaker 2: extra ticket to an event, you're less likely to invite
Speaker 2: them because it's also that same fear of constant rejection
Speaker 2: you're getting from a person. And I think it also
Speaker 2: comes down to when you are canceling plans and like
Speaker 2: the essays said, you will cancel and you'll stay at
Speaker 2: home and either doom scroll TikTok, or you'll just watch
Speaker 2: the TV show and repeat. If you are still living
Speaker 2: with other people, like if you live with a partner,
Speaker 2: or you have pets, or you have kids, or you
Speaker 2: have housemates, you're still inadvertently getting that sense of community.
Speaker 2: The person who's not getting that sense of the community
Speaker 2: is a person who lives alone that you could have
Speaker 2: canceled on. And this is something that I've had to
Speaker 2: go over and over in my head because I do
Speaker 2: live alone. Around twenty eight percent of the Australian population
Speaker 2: lives alone, and it's more common for people who live
Speaker 2: alone to have depression. That for me, whenever I cancel
Speaker 2: plans because I want to be alone at home, it's
Speaker 2: a signal for me that I'm going into that depressive state,
Speaker 2: especially if I repeat it over and over again. And
Speaker 2: whenever someone cancel plans on me constantly to hang out
Speaker 2: by themselves at home, even though they might be with
Speaker 2: other people that they live with, they don't realize that
Speaker 2: I don't have that sense of community, and I actually
Speaker 2: need to physically keep going to achieve that and find that.
Speaker 3: That's so true because we're also not very good at
Speaker 3: knowing or predicting what will make us happy. So I've
Speaker 3: talked before. I remember we did a no Filter probably
Speaker 3: two years ago now Maya, where I spoke about depression
Speaker 3: and how the nature of depression is that you feel
Speaker 3: pulled towards doing things that are going to make you
Speaker 3: more unhappy. And people in my family who who the
Speaker 3: truth depression for a long time say the trick is
Speaker 3: doing the opposite of what you feel like doing. So
Speaker 3: if you feel like laying in bed all day, get up.
Speaker 3: If you don't feel like eating, eat that sort of thing.
Speaker 3: And so when we sit at home and we think
Speaker 3: I really don't want to go out, I think I'm
Speaker 3: gonna put myself first or whatever that language is, then
Speaker 3: often that's just going to lead to us feeling worse.
Speaker 3: And I don't think that any of this is because
Speaker 3: you're a bitch. That's the one thing that I kind
Speaker 3: of took issue. I know that it's a really great headliner.
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone is a bitch. Well, I do.
Speaker 3: I could probably name a few bitches, but not generally.
Speaker 3: I just think we live in a culture that privileges
Speaker 3: self reliance and independence, and any studies that are done
Speaker 3: on cultures that have more of a collectivist approach and
Speaker 3: understand themselves to be part of a whole, they approach
Speaker 3: it really differently. They do feel more comfortable asking for favors,
Speaker 3: and there's often greater satisfaction and happiness because we don't
Speaker 3: feel so isolated.
Speaker 1: I have never had a plan that I didn't want
Speaker 1: to cancel. I've never had a holiday that I didn't
Speaker 1: want to cancel or come home early from like almost never.
Speaker 1: And I wonder if it's a symptom. Particularly lately, I've
Speaker 1: found myself more and more shut in, and I wonder
Speaker 1: if there's it's probably no coincidence that the world feels
Speaker 1: very scary at the moment, both from a big picture
Speaker 1: sort of geopolitical sense and wars and what's going on
Speaker 1: in Gaza and Israel and Iran and everything, and just
Speaker 1: also there's the general situation around America and Trump and
Speaker 1: the way he's turned the world into chaos. But also
Speaker 1: closer to home, I've experienced some sort of a lot
Speaker 1: of scrutiny and attention lately, and sometimes everything feels quite unsafe,
Speaker 1: so I want to just stay home. It's like my
Speaker 1: body goes into fight or flight and it's like it's
Speaker 1: not safe out there. Just stay home, just stay contained
Speaker 1: in a small space. But when I do push myself
Speaker 1: to go out, I always I am so glad that I did.
Speaker 3: And the question is what you then do when you
Speaker 3: are at home alone, is pick up the phone and
Speaker 3: look at things that are going to reinforce the sense.
Speaker 1: It's not like I sit home and meditate or look
Speaker 1: at the garden, or read a book or enrich myself.
Speaker 1: You're right, I end up doom scrolling and perpetuating. Well,
Speaker 1: I do perpetuate this fight or flight response.
Speaker 3: Do you think as well that we're addicted, quite literally
Speaker 3: addicted to convenience. So what we were saying before about
Speaker 3: you don't have milk, I'll jump onto an app. You
Speaker 3: can get it in fifteen minutes. This is if you
Speaker 3: live in cities there's a lot of listeners who don't
Speaker 3: have that. But even like addicted to the control of
Speaker 3: knowing what the weather's going to be tomorrow, all that
Speaker 3: kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Our muscle for dealing with inconvenience or discomfort or delayed gratification.
Speaker 1: So we is so flabby.
Speaker 3: So I have someone who's very close to being and
Speaker 3: I will say, hey, I want to go visit this
Speaker 3: friend over the weekend, and this person will go, oh,
Speaker 3: abo's thirty minutes in the car. That's inconvenient. And I
Speaker 3: keep saying relationships are inconvenience.
Speaker 1: That's all out.
Speaker 3: They are incredibly inconvenient. And a relationship built just on
Speaker 3: mutual convenience isn't really a relationship with any depth. There
Speaker 3: was a great line in that article that was as
Speaker 3: if connection isn't made of small, tiring and glamorous acts,
Speaker 3: And that's so true. It's like you've got yourself out.
Speaker 1: Inconvenience is the tax that you pay for community and relationship, right,
Speaker 1: whether it's friendship or whatever. If you're never ever doing
Speaker 1: something that makes you uncomfortable or inconvenienced, you may as
Speaker 1: well just live in solitary confinement.
Speaker 4: Surely, it's also.
Speaker 2: Like really sad that it always comes with an element
Speaker 2: of surprise when someone does want to do something for you,
Speaker 2: like yeah, with weddings and funerals, like you're always so shocked,
Speaker 2: like I can't believe she sent so many flowers. I
Speaker 2: can't believe she just took over the booklet and the
Speaker 2: planning and everything, when sometimes I'm just like, that should
Speaker 2: be a given.
Speaker 1: Do you know that the people in your life should
Speaker 1: be doing research around this? People dramatically underestimate others' willingness
Speaker 1: to help exactly what you say, by as much as
Speaker 1: fifty percent.
Speaker 4: That seems like a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we always overestimate how inconvenient a requests will be. Fathers.
Speaker 3: I have a friend who just had a baby, and
Speaker 3: she had a commitment that she had to do, and
Speaker 3: she messaged me and said, is there any way they'd
Speaker 3: come around and just hold the baby for an hour?
Speaker 3: I was so excited because I was so desperate to
Speaker 3: help her, and I'd been doing the thing you're not
Speaker 3: meant to do, which is how can I help? Because
Speaker 3: I didn't know. I know sometimes you can put your
Speaker 3: foot in it, but I was like, I'm actually desperate
Speaker 3: to do that for you, and I will feel closer
Speaker 3: to you at the end of Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's hard though. Also, I know we talk a
Speaker 1: lot about askers and guesses when you factor that in
Speaker 1: and askers and guesses, and asker is someone who asks
Speaker 1: for what they want, and a guesser is someone who
Speaker 1: wants you to guess what they want. And sometimes that
Speaker 1: can be challenging because it doesn't occur to a guesser
Speaker 1: to ask what someone else would want, and it doesn't
Speaker 1: occur to an asker to have to guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're walking around going, well, what do you want
Speaker 3: from me?
Speaker 1: So that's why you've got an one pretty well. Like Jesse,
Speaker 1: I know that you're a guesser, so I don't ask
Speaker 1: you what you want. This could come across as an
Speaker 1: imposition I just do things.
Speaker 3: Send me links to what Luna for her bathday?
Speaker 2: You make yourself a guesser because you know, Jessie.
Speaker 1: No, I just I don't wait to be asked that.
Speaker 1: I don't wait to be asked because I think that
Speaker 1: you can kid yourself and go, oh, they haven't asked,
Speaker 1: therefore they don't need anything.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I.
Speaker 2: Also think love languages come into this as well, like,
Speaker 2: for example, I have a friend who was really sick
Speaker 2: and she was in hospital, and my love language is gifting, Like,
Speaker 2: I think the best thing I could do is sent
Speaker 2: her flowers, And then I remember that her love language
Speaker 2: is acts of service, So for her, she's probably like,
Speaker 2: just help.
Speaker 4: Me go to the bathroom. I don't know what to.
Speaker 1: Deal with your shitty flower. Then my question is, what's
Speaker 1: the difference between paying someone to go and clean your
Speaker 1: house or paying for a meal to be delivered versus
Speaker 1: making the meal yourself, or going over and stacking her
Speaker 1: dish washer and vacuuming her house yourself. How would you
Speaker 1: feel differently if Sam I sent over a voucher for
Speaker 1: a meal or got something delivered that I hadn't made,
Speaker 1: or I made something myself. The end of the day
Speaker 1: you're eating both ways, would you feel differently?
Speaker 2: I would feel differently, which is kind of shitty because
Speaker 2: I think it's like kind of this, you're doing the
Speaker 2: same thing essentially. But I also think it comes down
Speaker 2: when in your head you're seeing how much time that
Speaker 2: person put into it. We're dinner voucher such a beautiful gift,
Speaker 2: But at the same time, if you had made something
Speaker 2: and given it to me, I'm like, she went up
Speaker 2: and bought the grocery, she spent time in the kitchen,
Speaker 2: she spent time driving to my house to give it
Speaker 2: to me. If you're at my house, you might also
Speaker 2: help me clean and serve me. Like it's the extra
Speaker 2: little things I feel like in your head makes it
Speaker 2: feel like it's more, And it kind of is more
Speaker 2: if you think about it.
Speaker 1: It's back to that inconvenience, right, It's the inconvenience that
Speaker 1: says to someone you matter.
Speaker 3: It's also existing in a productivity kind of centered society
Speaker 3: and also an outcome centered society where it's like whatever
Speaker 3: the outcome or the results or the thing that sits
Speaker 3: on the table, it's like, we don't even want to
Speaker 3: think about kind of I've had this argument with a
Speaker 3: friend too about whether it's the thought that counts, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, I actually think all of the thought and
Speaker 3: all of the effort does count for a lot, But
Speaker 3: sometimes I don't think it's seen that way. Recently, there
Speaker 3: was someone in our community who was sick and they
Speaker 3: cooked all day and went and dropped off food, and
Speaker 3: I was like, what, Like it didn't even occur. I
Speaker 3: would do the dinner ladies about her. That's what I
Speaker 3: do mostly because I can't cook, and I wouldn't put
Speaker 3: that off it.
Speaker 1: Maybe you could write them some You could write poem.
Speaker 1: You could write a poem because cooking is not something
Speaker 1: that you're good at, the same with me, like I
Speaker 1: would not burden someone by cooking.
Speaker 3: So the conclusion is, write more poems out louders in
Speaker 3: a moment. Have you ever turned up to an open
Speaker 3: house or inspection and it looks nothing like the photos?
Speaker 3: You're not imagining it. We unpack the trick being used
Speaker 3: to lure renters, and we've got recommendations coming up. You're
Speaker 3: scrolling through potential properties, either to rent or to buy
Speaker 3: right and you look at just a stunning property. We're
Speaker 3: talking stunning light. That living room looks very spacious, the
Speaker 3: carpet so soft.
Speaker 4: So I can't afford it.
Speaker 3: No, you definitely can't to it. Goodness, both bedrooms fit
Speaker 3: a double bed. Can you even imagine luxury? There's even
Speaker 3: a fireplace. Look, it's burning in the corner fireplace.
Speaker 1: It's on the bottom.
Speaker 3: Can you even believe it?
Speaker 1: There's a fire peer that's crazy.
Speaker 4: Where's it going?
Speaker 3: No one asked questions. I'm going to register for an inspection.
Speaker 3: But then you get there, there's only one window and
Speaker 3: it looks like something out of a jail cell. Oh no,
Speaker 3: you can touch both walls while standing in the center
Speaker 3: of sor then the carpet is actually a rug and
Speaker 3: that belongs to the owners and they'll be taking it back.
Speaker 3: That second bedroom it might only fit a kid's single
Speaker 3: trundle bed, and the fireplace is actually a hole in
Speaker 3: the wall left by the previous tenant.
Speaker 2: It had a very raging note what happened.
Speaker 3: What happened is AI Like, if you have a sense
Speaker 3: that you're being personally victimized by the marketing of real
Speaker 3: estate agents, you are not imagining it. I have personally
Speaker 3: been to that inspection where I go, this is simply
Speaker 3: not what I saw online. I'm being you know what
Speaker 3: I'm being I'm being gasolate lit. I'm being gas lit
Speaker 3: by real estate agents, by the fake fire and there
Speaker 3: are currently calls for an Australian wide crackdown on real
Speaker 3: estate ads that use AI. So the New South Wales
Speaker 3: state government has cited examples of real estate agents using
Speaker 3: AI generated furniture that showed a double bed in a
Speaker 3: room that could literally only fit a single bed and
Speaker 3: modifying photos to obscure property damage. It is not that
Speaker 3: unusual for them to put a fire like an actual
Speaker 3: like lip fire in a fireplace that either doesn't work
Speaker 3: like isn't functional, and it's just literally like an AI
Speaker 3: generated image stuck in there. And for a long time
Speaker 3: they've been allowed to do that. Is anyone else finding
Speaker 3: themselves increasingly tricked by AI? I thought I was savvy,
Speaker 3: and I no longer feel savvy.
Speaker 1: This really surprised me to hear, because of course, now
Speaker 1: that you say it, I can see it. But about
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, I was the chair of the then
Speaker 1: federal government's National Body Image Advisory Board, and we were
Speaker 1: tasked by the government at looking at a whole lot
Speaker 1: of things that we could do, guidelines and initiatives for
Speaker 1: the fashion industry, the advertising industry, the media industry that
Speaker 1: would improve body image. And one of the things that
Speaker 1: we proposed was that there be mandatory declaration when images
Speaker 1: had been photo shopped, because you know, back in the day,
Speaker 1: now it's of course pandemic, but magazine covers and magazine
Speaker 1: images and advertising images had always been retouched. You didn't
Speaker 1: have to declare it. And at the time it was
Speaker 1: compared to someone made the point that with real estate images,
Speaker 1: if you show like a view of Bondai Beach and
Speaker 1: there's not an actual view, but it just is in
Speaker 1: you used to have to have a discrimus saying not
Speaker 1: actual view. Really Yeah, so there was that was really
Speaker 1: strict around truth in advertising. The reason I brought that
Speaker 1: up is that we made the point that it was
Speaker 1: absurd that you could have a picture of a human
Speaker 1: but you didn't have to say not actual human. It
Speaker 1: was created essentially by photoshop, which is a version of AI.
Speaker 1: So I'm so surprised that all of those things have
Speaker 1: I think probably industries just haven't caught up with technology,
Speaker 1: haven't caught up with AI.
Speaker 3: You're talking about. It sounds so archaic that you would
Speaker 3: have to declare because now I imagery is totally ubiquitous.
Speaker 3: You'll see aiimage that's allegedly from a war zone, or
Speaker 3: an AI image of Donald Trump doing something he simply
Speaker 3: did not do, like that's everywhere. And what that does
Speaker 3: to the human race when you can't look at an
Speaker 3: image and trust it is something I don't like to
Speaker 3: think about too much.
Speaker 2: I wonder if it's also because especially with rents. We
Speaker 2: are in a rental crisis right now. People are desperate
Speaker 2: to find somewhere to live. And I wonder if it's
Speaker 2: just real estate going well, people will come no matter what.
Speaker 2: So what's the point of doing all this extra legwork
Speaker 2: when we just know there'll be hordes of lines for
Speaker 2: people to see this place?
Speaker 3: Well, the argument is that what you're essentially doing is
Speaker 3: like you're really wasting people's time. So if someone is
Speaker 3: in and I've been in this position between rental properties
Speaker 3: where I've been kicked out of A and I need
Speaker 3: to move into B, there's only so many properties I
Speaker 3: can visit. And I was the person who I was
Speaker 3: in a room clearing my sister and her boyfriend were
Speaker 3: in a room. Did two rooms that could have humans
Speaker 3: in them?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: And so you'd go and say this place is unlivable.
Speaker 1: For two bed yas, you've wasted our time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've wasted our time when I could have gone
Speaker 3: and seen this property that actually offers me somewhat what
Speaker 3: I want. So I think that that's the crackdown too,
Speaker 3: is just going You can't do that to people. It's
Speaker 3: incredibly manipulative.
Speaker 1: Have you been tricked by.
Speaker 2: AO Okay, look, I wasn't gonna bring this up, but
Speaker 2: this only happened a few weeks ago, which makes me
Speaker 2: even more shameful.
Speaker 4: I was on.
Speaker 2: TikTok and I was watching this video and it was
Speaker 2: one of those like mini documentary videos about this really
Speaker 2: rare fish that these fishermen found, and it was like
Speaker 2: this huge, huge I think it was like a five
Speaker 2: minute video. Entire video was generated by AI. I sat
Speaker 2: there and watched it for five minutes.
Speaker 1: Did it have when you looked in the captions? Did
Speaker 1: it have an AI hashtage? That happened to me? I
Speaker 1: watched a funny video last night and it was like
Speaker 1: this woman getting sort of eaten by her couch and
Speaker 1: this thing, and I was like, this is amazing, and
Speaker 1: I showed my kids and they're like, d No, I
Speaker 1: don't think it is.
Speaker 3: I think I Cash really did eat her.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: One of the girls in our office is some pointing
Speaker 2: around the spot. She went to get a really drastic haircut,
Speaker 2: like one of those like long hair to a bob.
Speaker 2: She went to a hair dress and she's like, I
Speaker 2: want something like this, and he was like, babe, that's
Speaker 2: not a real person.
Speaker 4: Hair doesn't flow much hairdressers.
Speaker 1: This is a real problem for hairdressers. People are rocking up,
Speaker 1: not just with shots of celebrities that look nothing like them.
Speaker 1: And Holly won't mind me telling the story of her,
Speaker 1: and I think me who went with photos of l
Speaker 1: Lara Bingle as she was then said we just want
Speaker 1: to look like this or Gwyneth Paltrow and sliding doors.
Speaker 1: I just want this pixie cut. And I mean, that's
Speaker 1: one thing, but now people are showing hair that doesn't
Speaker 1: exist and saying I want that hair.
Speaker 2: After the break, we have some recommendations for you, including
Speaker 2: something to watch, a new discovery, and something smelly for
Speaker 2: your body.
Speaker 3: Every Tuesday and Thursday we drop new segments of Mummy
Speaker 3: Are Out Loud just for Mummy A subscribers. Follow the
Speaker 3: link in the show notes to get your daily Joseph
Speaker 3: out Loud and a big thank you to all our
Speaker 3: current subscribers.
Speaker 5: Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 1: This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 2: Okay, it is Friday and we want to help you
Speaker 2: set up your weekend with our very best recommendations.
Speaker 4: Mia, do you want to get first?
Speaker 1: I have been plummeted back into the world of children's
Speaker 1: entertainers and videos. Now that Luna is almost two and
Speaker 1: she's allowed a little bit of screen time, we're having
Speaker 1: a little bit of screen time. So I am back
Speaker 1: in the Wiggles. Gosh, the wiggles have changed.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's so many of them now.
Speaker 1: There's one of the yes, one of them is very buff.
Speaker 1: One of them is a magical tree that dances like
Speaker 1: he's in a rave and I'm obsessed with him.
Speaker 3: I bet you don't know that he's married to Dorothy.
Speaker 1: I've forgotten how much you love a bit of wiggles,
Speaker 1: got them to gossip about. And Anthony, the blue Wiggle
Speaker 1: of the he's still there. Queen Adam's daughter, Lucia, his daughter.
Speaker 1: She the ballerina Neppo wiggle. Yes, yeah, she's also blue.
Speaker 1: She's also the blue Wiggle. Well she has to actually beautiful.
Speaker 1: It's a lovely thing anyway. Something that I've just learned
Speaker 1: about a children's entertainer called Miss Rachel. She has a
Speaker 1: YouTube channel. If you've got little kids, I'm sure you'll
Speaker 1: have heard of Miss Rachel. But I learned about Miss
Speaker 1: Rachel because I was listening to Jesse and Amelia talk
Speaker 1: about her on parenting out loud last week. She's got
Speaker 1: like fifteen million subscribers on YouTube, where there's about one
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty free videos. Fifteen million subscribers.
Speaker 3: They believe that she's the biggest children's entertainer in the world.
Speaker 1: Oh, and she just records they're very low fight. She
Speaker 1: records these videos in front of green screen in her laundroom.
Speaker 1: I think she started Jesse because her son had speech delay,
Speaker 1: and so she was making these videos. They're lovely because
Speaker 1: one of the things, and one of the reasons that
Speaker 1: you're not meant to have little kids watching screens too
Speaker 1: much is the fast cuts. The way TV's made now.
Speaker 1: It's very fast, a lot of movement, and it's hugely
Speaker 1: stimulating and it can be hard for them to process.
Speaker 4: This is very slow, So it's.
Speaker 1: For babies and photography.
Speaker 3: She sounds things out, which is really good for speech.
Speaker 3: And have you ever heard of miss Rachel.
Speaker 4: I've heard this name everywhere.
Speaker 3: Do you know her face?
Speaker 1: No, have a little listen.
Speaker 3: Hi, Frabs, I'm so excited to learn about zoo animals
Speaker 3: and chuckle animals with you today.
Speaker 1: It's going to be so much fun. Can you do
Speaker 1: this rhyme with me a tweet aor and oh whoa, whoa,
Speaker 1: who's in the zoo planing big girl. What's interesting about
Speaker 1: this story and why you were talking about it, is
Speaker 1: that lately she's become the target of a lot of
Speaker 1: pretty outrageous criticism for her advocacy of the children in Gaza,
Speaker 1: and she's also spoken about her concern for the children
Speaker 1: in Israel. But some people have said that she's been
Speaker 1: being paid by Hamas and some pretty wild accusations.
Speaker 3: So she's had to turn off all comments on Instagram
Speaker 3: and YouTube because of the hate that she was getting,
Speaker 3: and she came out and just basically said, no child
Speaker 3: should have their crucial brain development interrupted by trauma. That's
Speaker 3: what I believe. We had this really interesting discussion about
Speaker 3: what it is about children's entertainers because of the intimacy
Speaker 3: having them in your home, you know, often late at night,
Speaker 3: the middle of the night, like people feel this kind
Speaker 3: of ownership over her, like a a real parasocial relationship.
Speaker 1: But is it also Jesse. I haven't watched too many
Speaker 1: for videos, but it was it that people were objecting
Speaker 1: to her talking about the plight of children in Gaza
Speaker 1: to children.
Speaker 3: No, that's what's interesting is over on Instagram where she's
Speaker 3: got all these followers, that's where she will post and
Speaker 3: she'll say, I, you know, want to look after these children.
Speaker 1: Off and she's raising money because that's where the parents are.
Speaker 3: Because that's where the parents are. Whereas on YouTube, which
Speaker 3: is a totally different platform, she's going brushy teeth, can
Speaker 3: you say, mama? Like? They're the kind of things that
Speaker 3: she's doing. But it highlights to me, I think it's
Speaker 3: such an interesting story. Is it highlights the different especially
Speaker 3: in this crisis, about what someone says and what people
Speaker 3: here are like. So she can say I really care
Speaker 3: about the well being of children, and it might be
Speaker 3: perceived by some in the community as being anti Semitic
Speaker 3: because of where they are and what, you know, who
Speaker 3: they see. Miss Rachel is standing alongside and it's just
Speaker 3: this big, mucky mess. The New York Times has done
Speaker 3: a brilliant profile on it, this whole story, which will
Speaker 3: link to it in our show notes, because it's really
Speaker 3: interesting and if you're a parent of a kid under
Speaker 3: about five, you have heard Miss Rachel's voice.
Speaker 4: Jesse, what do you have today?
Speaker 3: I have a documentary which I'm really on the documentary train. Please,
Speaker 3: there's not a single pooh in this documentary. There's a
Speaker 3: series on Netflix called American man Hunt. They did one
Speaker 3: on the Boston bomber and this new one which remember
Speaker 3: I recommended Titan recently, and a bunch about louders slid
Speaker 3: into my DMS and said, you have to watch American
Speaker 3: man Hunt. Osama bin Lighten. You have to watch that
Speaker 3: is just come out. You'll really enjoy it.
Speaker 5: Where war, we will find those who did it and
Speaker 5: we'll bring them to justice.
Speaker 2: Call for Black chief of counter terrorism said, if you'll
Speaker 2: let me do it, I'll have flies walking on their
Speaker 2: eyeballs in six weeks.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm talking about. I was working with the
Speaker 1: representative from the FAA trying to.
Speaker 4: Track some of the conspirators. We knew this was Masamo
Speaker 4: bin Laden.
Speaker 1: We were going to war full out against inn Lodon.
Speaker 3: And the reason why is because so I was born
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety when September eleven happened, I would have
Speaker 3: been eleven, and my whole adolescence the image of bin
Speaker 3: Laden was like the villain, like he was such a bit.
Speaker 3: He loomed so large in my kind of childhood adolescence
Speaker 3: and what this documentary does is it tracks nine to
Speaker 3: eleven and then the subsequent manhunt by the US Army
Speaker 3: to try and find him. And I remembered parts of it,
Speaker 3: but the details I completely missed. And because they're able
Speaker 3: to get members of the CIA, this is Barack Obama's
Speaker 3: speech writer, They're able to get the Navy seal who
Speaker 3: actually found Bin Laden, like, they're able to interview all
Speaker 3: of these people in a way that it puts it
Speaker 3: in the context of history. There is a lot of
Speaker 3: criticism from a lot of the people in the inside
Speaker 3: ranks about Guantanamo and some of the lengths they went
Speaker 3: to to quite literally torture people to try and get intel.
Speaker 3: There are a lot of parallels with what's going on
Speaker 3: at the moment, with the US claiming to have inverted
Speaker 3: Commas achieved something that they have not achieved, and how
Speaker 3: politics works in these kind of geopolitical moments. It is fascinating.
Speaker 3: It is called American Manhunt O. Some have Bin Laden
Speaker 3: and it is on Netflix.
Speaker 1: And what are you recommending?
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm putting my body out there for the greater
Speaker 2: good because I have really.
Speaker 4: Bad back me.
Speaker 3: Oh, I've had that before.
Speaker 2: I think it's one of those things where you stop
Speaker 2: the pill and then your whole body just goes. I'm
Speaker 2: a new person.
Speaker 1: Have you got front me as well? Or just back
Speaker 1: me on my chair? I used to get it on
Speaker 1: my my nipples.
Speaker 2: Weird.
Speaker 4: It also is really weird when you're dating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, You're like, yeah, you got to undo a
Speaker 3: button and you're like, never mind.
Speaker 2: And because it's like, my back knee is on my back,
Speaker 2: so I don't really I don't really see it right
Speaker 2: until I was wearing a backless dress one so my
Speaker 2: dad saw my backnee and he was like, I do
Speaker 2: think you should get that checked out? And then I
Speaker 2: got a checked out and it was just backnee checked
Speaker 2: Do think it.
Speaker 1: Was that bad?
Speaker 2: He generally got something was wrong with hey. He was
Speaker 2: very concerned for my health and well being. So anyway,
Speaker 2: I've been treating it, even though I can't see it
Speaker 2: and I feel like anything on your back is none
Speaker 2: of my business, but I've been treating it. I've been
Speaker 2: using this little skincare toool from TBH Skincare. They're so good,
Speaker 2: so good, so affordable. I got this from Priceline for
Speaker 2: thirty dollars. It's the Breakout Hack Body Spirit and it's
Speaker 2: basically just like an exfoliant spray that you can spray
Speaker 2: on your back on. So and I actually don't need
Speaker 2: a friend to help you if you live alone, because
Speaker 2: like you can spray it upside down to the side.
Speaker 2: You can get your whole back even if you have
Speaker 2: like acne on your barm.
Speaker 3: That's what I was going to say.
Speaker 1: A lot of people like it's just like the thighs
Speaker 1: aren't as difficult to get to as bad.
Speaker 2: It's the top of yeah, And I'm like, we need
Speaker 2: more body skin care because you get like little spots everywhere.
Speaker 2: And already it's been like I think three weeks now,
Speaker 2: all my little spots have like lost their redness. I
Speaker 2: have much less. It's so so good. So if you
Speaker 2: have a little backning problems like me, it's totally normal.
Speaker 2: But you can fix it, can I?
Speaker 3: Before we go, I just remembered I have a little
Speaker 3: identical twin fun fact, would you too? Late tonight is.
Speaker 2: A creepy one, you know I feel about creature fact
Speaker 2: about you and it's just interesting, right, you know how
Speaker 2: on this show six months ago, I've got a skin cancer.
Speaker 3: Removed on my hairline, and I've had to go back
Speaker 3: and get it checked out. The other day, Claire looks
Speaker 3: at me and goes, look at this, and she's had
Speaker 3: a skin camper on to the centimeter exactly the same
Speaker 3: spot on her hairline. And what's interesting is that it's
Speaker 3: obviously nature and nurture, like the intersection of the two things,
Speaker 3: but it's clearly like the gene are predisposed.
Speaker 1: That's uncanny because because you would think, I mean.
Speaker 3: It's environmental.
Speaker 1: If you were to get would they say that your
Speaker 1: chance of skin cancer is very much determined by your
Speaker 1: son exposure when you're younger, So I guess you would
Speaker 1: have been exposed to the same things, but you don't
Speaker 1: have the same hair. No, you don't even have the
Speaker 1: same texture of hair exactly.
Speaker 2: So she's got really creep.
Speaker 1: Has she gone and got that checked out?
Speaker 3: She's about to she's about to and it looks exactly
Speaker 3: the same as mine did. And I was like, oh, well,
Speaker 3: maybe because HER's an earlier stage. I'm like, maybe you
Speaker 3: won't need to get it chopped out. You could just
Speaker 3: do the cream or whatever. But it's weird identical.
Speaker 1: It's so weird. I'll tell you, you'll be concerned.
Speaker 3: That's all we have time for today. A big thank
Speaker 3: you to all of you the out louderst for listening
Speaker 3: to today's show. We will be back in your ears
Speaker 3: next week.
Speaker 2: Big thank you to our team, our group executive producer
Speaker 2: Root Divine, our executive producer Emmeline Gazillis.
Speaker 1: Our audio producer Leah Porges, our video producer Josh Green,
Speaker 1: our junior content produces Coco and Tessa. Out Louders, take
Speaker 1: care of yourself and others this weekend. Don't be a bitch,
Speaker 1: don't convenience yourself.
Speaker 3: Bye Aye, out Louders. If you're not ready to say goodbye,
Speaker 3: then you can listen to yesterday's subscriber episode. It's a
Speaker 3: chat that Amelia m and I had.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 3: We unpacked some family drama dilemmas. We've all been there
Speaker 3: in one way or another. Follow the link in the
Speaker 3: show notes to listen.
Speaker 1: Shout out to any Mum and Maya subscribers listening. If
Speaker 1: you love the show and want to support us as well,
Speaker 1: subscribing to Mother and Maya is the very best way
Speaker 1: to do so. There is a link in the episode
Speaker 1: description