Speaker 1: You're listening to another MIA podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges the
Speaker 1: traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is
Speaker 1: recorded on. We pay our respects to elders past, present
Speaker 1: and emerging, and feel privileged to continue the sharing of
Speaker 1: birth stories and knowledge that has been a fundamental part
Speaker 1: of indigenous culture.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 1: I'm Cassania Lukit and this is diary of a birth.
Speaker 1: Birth is different all over the world, both culturally and financially.
Speaker 1: And while I'm fairly familiar with the way the system
Speaker 1: works here in Australia, what does pregnancy and birth look
Speaker 1: like in a socially democratic society like Sweden. Today's mum
Speaker 1: had her first two children here in Australia and looking
Speaker 1: for adventure, her and her Swedish partner flew across the
Speaker 1: world and relocated to Sweden. Then she unexpectedly felt pregnant.
Speaker 1: Navigating pregnancy halfway around the world wasn't always easy, especially
Speaker 1: with a very unexpected complication during birth.
Speaker 2: I just grabbed Gustaf and I was like, I can
Speaker 2: feel everything. Please stop.
Speaker 1: So let's meet today's mum.
Speaker 2: Hi. I'm Eliza and this is the diary of my
Speaker 2: birth with August.
Speaker 1: So you were a part of the Mom and Maya family.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: So I'm the head of content at MoMA Mia and
Speaker 2: it's so funny. This is actually my first podcast. I'm
Speaker 2: normally behind the scenes, but I love this show and
Speaker 2: I think every woman loves to tell their birth story,
Speaker 2: so here I am.
Speaker 1: As we know, every birth story is very different, and
Speaker 1: I think what makes yours really interesting is that you
Speaker 1: actually gave birth with your third child in Sweden.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was nothing that I had really expected.
Speaker 2: So I had two kids and my husband and I
Speaker 2: packed up our lives and we moved to Sweden during COVID.
Speaker 2: My husband Swedish, so it wasn't a random decision or
Speaker 2: a random country. But we hopped on the plane. There
Speaker 2: was only ten other people on the plane. It was
Speaker 2: due at the height of the pandemic. And we went
Speaker 2: just for a year for an adventure, and we arrived
Speaker 2: and we ended up loving it, and we both ended
Speaker 2: up getting jobs that we didn't expect. It just became great.
Speaker 2: Everything seemed to really be working for us there. A
Speaker 2: couple of months in, it would have been like six
Speaker 2: months in. At this time, it's like November in Sweden,
Speaker 2: so it's starting to snow, it's starting to get really cold.
Speaker 2: We just had such a great summer and I started
Speaker 2: feeling really sick, and one day I was like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, I'm pregnant. I was actually in a cubicle
Speaker 2: at work, like I'd gone to work early because I
Speaker 2: was like, what's going on with me? I just felt,
Speaker 2: you know, you just know. And I did this pregnancy
Speaker 2: test and look, it wasn't something we had necessarily wanted.
Speaker 2: It was definitely a surprise and it was really hard.
Speaker 2: Like I saw that test and I was across the
Speaker 2: other side of the world on what we thought was
Speaker 2: this adventure year. And we had also had discussions before
Speaker 2: where we were like, oh, maybe our family's done. So
Speaker 2: you know, this happened, and you know, you're thirty four
Speaker 2: and you're like, of course, like we should do this,
Speaker 2: you know, but you still felt so much guilt. I
Speaker 2: felt so much guilt that I could fall pregnant when
Speaker 2: a lot of my friends in Australia were trying to
Speaker 2: fall pregnant with their first or second baby, and here
Speaker 2: I was with a surprise baby. And so there was
Speaker 2: a lot like it was a very hard pregnancy. Those
Speaker 2: first couple of weeks of Oh my gosh, I'm across
Speaker 2: the other side of the world. I'm away from my
Speaker 2: close family. I still have my husband's family here, of course,
Speaker 2: but none of my best friends are here. I've fallen
Speaker 2: pregnant when a lot of other people would love to
Speaker 2: be pregnant. I don't even know if I want this.
Speaker 2: So it was there's a lot to take in. And
Speaker 2: then coupled with that, I'm heading into my first winter
Speaker 2: in Stockholm. So the temperature is minus twenty one degrees,
Speaker 2: you can't go outside. I had never even experienced snow.
Speaker 2: I'd never seen snow before. So the darkness, the coldness,
Speaker 2: coupled with this strange like I don't know what's next
Speaker 2: for my life, and then extreme morning sickness. So I
Speaker 2: was so sick to the point I ended up in
Speaker 2: hospital quite a few times actually, and there was one
Speaker 2: incident in hospital where my throat was so sore. I
Speaker 2: ended up having strep throat and I couldn't communicate with
Speaker 2: the doctors. And because it was during COVID, you were
Speaker 2: only allowed to go to the hospital, so my husband
Speaker 2: was at home looking after them. I can barely communicate
Speaker 2: with the doctors. I just want to go home. Like
Speaker 2: it was really really hard at the start. But at
Speaker 2: the like ten week mark, we told my mum and
Speaker 2: my dad as well my in laws, and they were
Speaker 2: so excited for us, and I think at that point
Speaker 2: we were like, yes, lose this attitude. We are so excited.
Speaker 2: We are already parents of two. We know how to
Speaker 2: do this. We can bring this child up. It is
Speaker 2: actually going to be okay. And so that kind of
Speaker 2: put a lot of our you know, it was still
Speaker 2: a cold to take in. It quashed a lot of
Speaker 2: our worries. And then what was so nice was we
Speaker 2: told the boys. So we have two boys at that time,
Speaker 2: they would have been four and five, so we had
Speaker 2: them quite close. Because you had them so close, I
Speaker 2: never got to see the oldest really understand that he
Speaker 2: was getting a younger brother. So it was just incredible
Speaker 2: to be able to tell them and they were like,
Speaker 2: what do you mean we got a baby? Like wow,
Speaker 2: how did the baby come? And I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're six, we're not talking about that yet. But that
Speaker 2: was really exciting. Like, so, what was so interesting about
Speaker 2: this pregnancy was that we were so nervous and scared
Speaker 2: about it, but everyone around us was so excited it
Speaker 2: also just changed everything. It meant that we stayed in
Speaker 2: Stockholm longer, and yeah, it was really really incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to go back a little bit to
Speaker 1: the guilt thing because I actually find that really interesting
Speaker 1: because I struggled to fall pregnant with my first and
Speaker 1: I had a lot of friends who did fall pregnant
Speaker 1: and hesitated telling me because they didn't want to make
Speaker 1: me feel bad. It's interesting that you said that you
Speaker 1: felt guilt. Was there someone in your life who was
Speaker 1: really trying and you felt that guilt particularly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, before we left to go to Sweden, two of
Speaker 2: my best friends were both trying and we had had
Speaker 2: lots of conversations, the three of us. They were both
Speaker 2: trying for their second child, and we'd had a lot
Speaker 2: of conversations like where they were like, it's just not working,
Speaker 2: We're doing everything, what about this? And I was really
Speaker 2: part of those conversations with them, And so when I
Speaker 2: found out when it had been a surprise, I did
Speaker 2: immediately go, oh my god, it is a really hard feeling.
Speaker 2: But the irony actually was both of them were pregnant,
Speaker 2: so I told them and they told me, and all
Speaker 2: of our kids are actually around two weeks apart, so
Speaker 2: it did all work out, but it doesn't for everyone,
Speaker 2: and it is really hard. And I think what's really
Speaker 2: hard about pregnancy is even I found this with my
Speaker 2: first I have always been quite sick in my pregnancies
Speaker 2: and I haven't loved it. And you have this like
Speaker 2: internal struggle where you're so excited and you know how
Speaker 2: lucky you are, but you also know people would want
Speaker 2: to be in your place, so you don't want to
Speaker 2: complain too much about it. I do think there is
Speaker 2: this really interesting pool that we have when it comes
Speaker 2: to fertility privilege, because like I do think I am
Speaker 2: very fortunate when it comes to like my fertility privilege,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't mean like every moment has been really easy.
Speaker 1: I think the empathy that you show is really beautiful,
Speaker 1: and I think that anyone that is struggling with fertility
Speaker 1: and has that empathy, that's kind of what a friendship needs.
Speaker 1: I know this isn't really what this is about, but
Speaker 1: I'm really fascinated by that because I remember counting the
Speaker 1: amount of people that felt pregnant while we were trying,
Speaker 1: and it like hurt every time, and it was one
Speaker 1: of those things where it was like I'm really happy
Speaker 1: for them, but I'm really sad for me. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: it's that kind of double edge sold And I'm sure
Speaker 1: that you felt the same that You're like, I feel
Speaker 1: really happy, but then I'm like this guilt of you know,
Speaker 1: my friends who really want that.
Speaker 2: But also I found like with my first, my first
Speaker 2: took longer, and I do remember I'd see pregnant woman
Speaker 2: walking down the street and I'd be like, oh, I
Speaker 2: hate her. Yeah, And so it's one of those things
Speaker 2: when you do go you know both sides. You're like,
Speaker 2: I know that this person would be happy for me,
Speaker 2: but I also would hate me. Like, so it's so conflicated.
Speaker 2: It's just part of being women, and like the empathy.
Speaker 2: Women do feel like you're right, like I do think
Speaker 2: women are just socially can understand these situations probably better
Speaker 2: than men, Like how hard it is to try and
Speaker 2: how hard it is to want something and not get it,
Speaker 2: and so when that comes to you really easily, you
Speaker 2: do feel guilt.
Speaker 1: Let's move on to being pregnant in Sweden. Now, obviously
Speaker 1: you didn't speak the language, you had two small children
Speaker 1: who were in daycare school. How did that process work?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was working full time in Sweden. I
Speaker 2: was working for Voke Scandinavia. It was all done in English,
Speaker 2: so it's a very easy huntry to get around with English.
Speaker 2: So I was very lazy learning Swedish. The Swedish system,
Speaker 2: it's a social democratic system, so it's incredible. I kick
Speaker 2: myself while I'm not still there. It's so incredible. All
Speaker 2: of daycare, all of the schooling is paid for. So
Speaker 2: I think our BI bills were probably equivalent of about
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty dollars Australian a month a month,
Speaker 2: and that's full time sorry for childcare for childcare, yeah wow, yeah,
Speaker 2: so I know, it's so silly. Why am I not there? Yeah,
Speaker 2: so they're in childcare full time. I was working full time,
Speaker 2: so it was all relatively quite easy in that sense that,
Speaker 2: you know, I had quite a lot of care and
Speaker 2: support around that. The prenatal care was very different in
Speaker 2: the sense that in Australia I had gone through the
Speaker 2: private system, so I had an obstetrician who then I
Speaker 2: saw every week of whatever you know when you do
Speaker 2: it every eight weeks. But in Sweden, once again it's
Speaker 2: you pay high taxes, but it does mean a lot
Speaker 2: of that healthcare is free, so it's really rare to
Speaker 2: have private I wouldn't even know how to go about it.
Speaker 2: What the system is. It is a midwife program, so
Speaker 2: you have a provider that you go to and it's
Speaker 2: this same midwife, and if she's away, there's two others
Speaker 2: that you work with, so you're always meeting the same
Speaker 2: midwife in a location near you. Actually, those locations normally
Speaker 2: then have a nurse who then you see afterwards with
Speaker 2: your child, so it's quite nice. It's the before and
Speaker 2: after care is all done in one space. Then you
Speaker 2: do your scans at a hospital where then you see
Speaker 2: a doctor at the scans. But what was interesting is
Speaker 2: Sweden didn't do the blood test that you can do
Speaker 2: in Australia to find out the sexbat Yeah, so I
Speaker 2: had found out quite early the sex of my first
Speaker 2: two boys, so it wasn't until a scan at halfway
Speaker 2: scan that I found out the sex when it came
Speaker 2: to August and he was another boy. There were a
Speaker 2: few differences, Yeah, I think definitely the Swedish system is
Speaker 2: a lot more hands off in the sense that there's
Speaker 2: not as many tests. They're just a bit more chill
Speaker 2: like just in general the society is a lot more chill.
Speaker 1: So yeah, because I mean it's fairly normal here in
Speaker 1: Australia at that sort of ten eleven week mark to
Speaker 1: do a nit test. You know, you do the blood
Speaker 1: test for the genetic testing and you can find out
Speaker 1: the sex. And like you, I was very impatient and
Speaker 1: found out straight away. But they don't even offer that.
Speaker 2: No, no, it wasn't even offered.
Speaker 1: Did that frustrate you or were you okay with that? Yes?
Speaker 2: I was like, what do you mean I have to
Speaker 2: wait twenty weeks? How dare you? Yeah? So as a
Speaker 2: really impatient person, it did frustrate me. I'm sure if
Speaker 2: you looked into it more potentially, but it wasn't even offered. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was just interesting. There was just little things. We
Speaker 2: never did the glucose tests, okay, yeah. I think there's
Speaker 2: also different diseases in Sweden, so there was different vaccinations
Speaker 2: that I had to receive, so there was just some differences.
Speaker 2: It's really interesting giving birth in a different place.
Speaker 1: I just think it's fascinating to hear about the different
Speaker 1: systems and obviously Sweden have an incredible healthcare system and
Speaker 1: to have it all that support is amazing. But to
Speaker 1: hear those little, those little mayor differences is quite interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think when I went private in Australia,
Speaker 2: each time you see your obstitution, you're doing a scan
Speaker 2: and you're seeing the baby. I didn't see the baby
Speaker 2: as much. I only saw the baby once or twice
Speaker 2: on scans, So it was Yeah, it just is more chill.
Speaker 2: I think that's the best way to say it.
Speaker 1: And what about the actual birthing process. Is there a
Speaker 1: bit more of a push first home births or midwa
Speaker 1: free support or what is the general consensus of birth
Speaker 1: in Sweden?
Speaker 2: It's very much whatever you want. It's not really a
Speaker 2: push for anything. Like I said, they're very chill like.
Speaker 2: They're so like, oh yeah, if you want to do formula,
Speaker 2: do formula, if you don't want to breastfeed, whatever. For me,
Speaker 2: I had had an emergency caesar for my first birth,
Speaker 2: so I'd then had a planned caesar for my second
Speaker 2: because it was within an eighteen month period, and so
Speaker 2: with August, they weren't even going to let me try
Speaker 2: a vaginal birth, which I was so happy with.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you've spoken to your providers and you're locking
Speaker 1: in your C section date. When did you do that?
Speaker 2: So I think we locked in the date probably at
Speaker 2: around the twenty week mark. They're like, okay, we'll put
Speaker 2: you in for the ninth of August. And it was
Speaker 2: all really planned and really quite simple and easy. I
Speaker 2: did have some pretty bad oh by the end. I
Speaker 2: was just like so heavy and the pressure. I was
Speaker 2: in quite a lot of pain at the end, and
Speaker 2: I did. There was a few times where I'm like,
Speaker 2: I think I might be going into labor, Like it
Speaker 2: really hurts, I can't walk anymore, you know, just that pain,
Speaker 2: that heavy pain, And so I'd just turn up at
Speaker 2: the hospital and be like I'm in pain and they're like, okay,
Speaker 2: come and lie down and we'll test you. So it
Speaker 2: was quite good. Every time. They were so sweet. Every
Speaker 2: time that would turn up, they'd be like, you're just exhausted,
Speaker 2: like you have two kids, in a full time job
Speaker 2: and you're carrying a baby, like just go home. But
Speaker 2: the system made you never feel like you were overreacting
Speaker 2: or they were always just like no, it's always better
Speaker 2: to be safe than sorry, which I found, like you
Speaker 2: find in Australia as well. It was really lovely care
Speaker 2: coming up like I'd have flashbacks and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: that was really scary. It's really interesting. I think had
Speaker 2: August have been my first, I would have found it
Speaker 2: probably hard to want to have another baby.
Speaker 1: You go in on your planned day, you're at your
Speaker 1: sort of thirty nine week mark. Tell me about the preparation.
Speaker 2: So I am so ready to have this baby. Oh
Speaker 2: my god. Like I was huge and just felt so
Speaker 2: heavy and so sore and so bloody tired. So I
Speaker 2: was so ready to have this baby. Also, it was summer,
Speaker 2: So summer in Sweden is incredible because everyone just shuts down.
Speaker 2: So everyone goes on like a five way holiday because
Speaker 2: it like is literally twenty two degrees, which is like
Speaker 2: a heat wave there, so they're all like, yay, let's
Speaker 2: get out there. No one's working. I'd had like four
Speaker 2: weeks off where we'd traveled and you know, I'd waddled around,
Speaker 2: but I'd had some really nice time with the boys,
Speaker 2: who were then on holidays as well. We lived near
Speaker 2: our in laws, so the boys were all planned to
Speaker 2: go there. I'd bought like a cute little matching set
Speaker 2: for the of the hospital, packed my bags. I was
Speaker 2: really prepped. My parents were also going to fly from
Speaker 2: Australia to come, so once I was out of hospital,
Speaker 2: they would be there. So I was feeling like maybe
Speaker 2: probably a little bit arrogant, like I was like, I've
Speaker 2: got this, this is great. So I went in really calm,
Speaker 2: expecting that it would all be fine and that, like
Speaker 2: I knew the drill a little bit, you.
Speaker 1: Felt prepared and you were prepared.
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell us.
Speaker 1: What happened when they gave you the spinal tap?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so look that part I remember with my second
Speaker 2: I remember walking in to have a CAESAR and being like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, this is a lot clinical than I thought,
Speaker 2: Like you're going to labor and you're like cool, I'm
Speaker 2: having a baby, and you're in that mindset. And then
Speaker 2: I ended up having emergency caesar, which was actually fine
Speaker 2: and beautiful and I loved it. But then the second
Speaker 2: time around, having a planned CAESAR, I realized that you're
Speaker 2: going in for an operation, and I did actually find
Speaker 2: that quite nerve wracking. And I do remember like shaking
Speaker 2: as you're getting because before I was in labor, so
Speaker 2: having a spinal tap and when you're in labor it's
Speaker 2: kind of part of it, but to go in cold
Speaker 2: and have that in your back, like it is quite
Speaker 2: nerve wracking, Like I'm quite scared of needles. I was,
Speaker 2: like I was a bit nervous about that.
Speaker 1: Is good stuff with you at this point.
Speaker 2: So you wheeled into the room. So your husband comes
Speaker 2: with you. He's in his scrubs. You know, all the
Speaker 2: doctors speak English. Obviously their first language is Swedish, so
Speaker 2: they probably talk Swedish to each other, but everyone can
Speaker 2: speak English to me. So I feel completely fine and
Speaker 2: I'm at ease beneath it. Us is so lovely. She
Speaker 2: explains what she's going to do. She puts a spinal
Speaker 2: tap in. She moves me into the room, and then
Speaker 2: what they do is to test that the area is
Speaker 2: numb to cut, they use ice. So with a C section,
Speaker 2: you still can feel the tugging because you are awake.
Speaker 2: It's just you don't feel the pain and new that
Speaker 2: and I know how it feels. So it's quite a
Speaker 2: strange sensation because you are numb, but you still know
Speaker 2: that they're there. So they're doing the ice tests and
Speaker 2: you can feel one part of you feels the ice
Speaker 2: is cold, and then the other part's just kind of
Speaker 2: not meant to feel it. She just kept doing it
Speaker 2: to me, and I was like, no, I can still
Speaker 2: feel it. I can still feel it. So they put
Speaker 2: more in, They put more of the anesthetic in, and
Speaker 2: this just keeps happening for about maybe forty minutes. At
Speaker 2: this point, you're so to have a baby. I'm kind
Speaker 2: of also confused because you know that it's not meant
Speaker 2: to be cold, but you know that you still can
Speaker 2: feel it. So by this point, I also was just
Speaker 2: so desperate to have this baby that I was like,
Speaker 2: I think it's working. Because they were like, oh, look,
Speaker 2: maybe we have to come back and try again if
Speaker 2: you don't think it's working. And I was like, no,
Speaker 2: I think it's working. And they're like, yeah, we've given
Speaker 2: you quite a lot, like it should be working. So
Speaker 2: I was like, no, no, I think it's workings, let's go.
Speaker 1: So they believed you. They believe that you still felt
Speaker 1: that because I think I've heard stories of people who
Speaker 1: were like I can feel pain, like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's fine. They were reassuring you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were reassuring, and they were like, Okay, we've
Speaker 2: put this in, we'll try again. We'll give you more time.
Speaker 2: This exchange had gone on four forty minutes and they
Speaker 2: were like this, it's been forty minutes now, like we
Speaker 2: kind of have to either call it and cry and
Speaker 2: come back this afternoon or we give it like five
Speaker 2: more minutes. And I was like, no, I think I
Speaker 2: can't feel anything, so like, let's go. They obviously start
Speaker 2: the operation and a C section takes about eight minutes,
Speaker 2: so it's incredibly fast, and it is It's so incredible
Speaker 2: because it's like within eight minutes you have this baby.
Speaker 2: And so they put up the screen. I'm holding Gustaf's
Speaker 2: hand and they're cutting and you can still like feel
Speaker 2: a little bit. And then there's just one point where
Speaker 2: I will never forget this moment. I just grabbed Gustaff
Speaker 2: and I was like, I can feel every like I
Speaker 2: can feel everything. Please stop. And at that point they
Speaker 2: all start speaking Swedish. They rush, they push good stuff
Speaker 2: out of the room, and they go, okay, we need
Speaker 2: to put you under. So they put me under general
Speaker 2: anesthetic and I'm completely then knocked out.
Speaker 1: So you've felt them cut you open.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what I had felt was I think they'd
Speaker 2: done one layer, that it had worked. But then it
Speaker 2: was like I don't know the medical facts, but there
Speaker 2: are a few different layers that they cut through, and
Speaker 2: it was maybe the third layer that I could feel,
Speaker 2: and at that point I was just I will never
Speaker 2: forget the grip on my husband. I was just like
Speaker 2: I can feel this, Please help. Yeah, screamed and I
Speaker 2: just remember like no, no, no, no, no stop. So
Speaker 2: I like, yeah, it was all over for me. They
Speaker 2: knocked me out so quickly. I was under general anesthetic.
Speaker 2: So during that time they then continued to operate where
Speaker 2: I was completely knocked out. August was then born and
Speaker 2: he was examined and given to my husband to do
Speaker 2: skin on skin, and then I woke up maybe half
Speaker 2: an hour later, and I woke up and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I really needed that sleep, and they're like, you have
Speaker 2: a baby. I was like, oh okay, because you're so disorientated.
Speaker 2: You know when you wake up from an operation and
Speaker 2: you're a bit disorientated. I woke up and I was like, oh, oh,
Speaker 2: I have a baby. It was bizarre. It was really bizarre.
Speaker 1: Bizar's definitely one would I just want to go back.
Speaker 1: So they were very very fast with this. You said
Speaker 1: I feel this, and the anetheist comes and just basically
Speaker 1: knocks you out. There was no yeah, are you ready
Speaker 1: to be knocked out? It was like not, We're putting
Speaker 1: you under.
Speaker 2: It was a flurry and it was good stuff. You
Speaker 2: have to leave. You can't be here for years. We
Speaker 2: need to put her under. And you feel like you're
Speaker 2: in a medical show where it's that flurry around you.
Speaker 2: And it was like, okay, like everyone out, We've got
Speaker 2: to put her under. When I woke up, I didn't
Speaker 2: kind of realize the extent of what I'd gone through
Speaker 2: a little bit. I had August. He was safe, he
Speaker 2: was really great baby, he fed really well. So I
Speaker 2: don't think it was until like a couple of months
Speaker 2: later when things got hard, you know, when you're waking
Speaker 2: up at night, like I'd have flashbacks and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: that was really scary. It's really interesting. I think had
Speaker 2: August have been my first, I would have found it
Speaker 2: probably hard to want to have another baby. Maybe. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's one of those if I think about too long,
Speaker 2: it was quite scary. Yeah, but in the moment, like
Speaker 2: the next day, and because you have a baby, you
Speaker 2: kind of just soldier on a bit.
Speaker 1: I completely understand that. I'm just thinking about how quickly
Speaker 1: that happened and Obviously you're probably not entirely cognizant of
Speaker 1: what's going on, But has good staff told you what
Speaker 1: he felt when he was basically pushed out of the room. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was like it happened so quickly. He's like, I
Speaker 1: just was not allowed to be there. And then he's like,
Speaker 1: but it was nice, like I got to have Orgie
Speaker 1: and I knew you were safe. Like he knew it
Speaker 1: was bad, but no one felt endangered. Yeah, so it
Speaker 1: was just more oh my god, like what's happening. It
Speaker 1: was also just so quick.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, he probably loved that he got to
Speaker 2: have the baby first. But it's funny when you wake
Speaker 2: up and you're so drugged. There's video of me and
Speaker 2: like what I'm saying, it's like almost comical. It's like
Speaker 2: one of those like hilarious comedies where the person wakes
Speaker 2: up on painkillers and what I'm saying, it's ridiculou. I'm embarrassed.
Speaker 1: Did you wake up and go, am I pregnant? Or
Speaker 1: have I had a baby?
Speaker 2: Like? I was just like that was the first sleep
Speaker 2: of my life, and I was like, it was really
Speaker 2: good that it happened like this, Like I just really
Speaker 2: needed a sleep and because I was like, you've literally
Speaker 2: been out for thirty minutes.
Speaker 1: It must have been a really good nap.
Speaker 2: It was a great thirty minute nap, but it was
Speaker 2: not ideal what happened?
Speaker 1: No, and then August came and how soon after you
Speaker 1: woke up or you able to hold him?
Speaker 2: They put him on my chest pretty soon, And so
Speaker 2: that's where there's like video of me and he's on
Speaker 2: my chest and I'm like, aren't you cute? Where did
Speaker 2: you get this little beanie from? Like that's quite funny
Speaker 2: footage because I'm still very like coming to after the
Speaker 2: general anesthetic. So he was on my chest straight away.
Speaker 2: I could start feeding him straight away. I also knew
Speaker 2: the drill that often with cesareans you can't get up
Speaker 2: and walk after twenty four hours. I knew that my
Speaker 2: recovery would be like that. It was interesting. The next
Speaker 2: day the Unethodus came and spoke to me and she said, look,
Speaker 2: I honestly did everything right. If I had to do that, Docige,
Speaker 2: I would still do it again. And I said, why
Speaker 2: do you think this happened to me? And she just said,
Speaker 2: I'm quite tall, and she's like, sometimes it's to do
Speaker 2: with height, but it had worked the other two times
Speaker 2: that I'd had it, So yeah, she was like, I
Speaker 2: really don't understand what went wrong, and you know, she
Speaker 2: guess she apologized for what happened and tried to talk
Speaker 2: me through it. But at the end of the day, like,
Speaker 2: I got a healthy baby and I'm healthy, so it
Speaker 2: was all fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean you can also acknowledge the fact
Speaker 1: that that's quite a kind of crazy. You're in a
Speaker 1: different country, you don't speak the language, there's people around you.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, there's a flurry of activity, and
Speaker 1: then you wake up and there's a baby. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was really crazy, and it's really interesting.
Speaker 2: In Sweden, they have this tradition where once you and
Speaker 2: they all talk about it, like as soon as you
Speaker 2: get pregnant, they're like, oh my god, you get the sandwiches.
Speaker 2: You have his baby, and they wheel you back to
Speaker 2: your room and they have these like little sandwiches that
Speaker 2: everyone gets and they put these little Swedish flags in
Speaker 2: the sandwich and they give you like fake champagne, and
Speaker 2: so you go and you have your Like it's just
Speaker 2: it's this weird tradition. And so I was just like
Speaker 2: I have his baby and now I'm having my fake
Speaker 2: champagne and my sandwich with a Swedish flag and this
Speaker 2: is lovely.
Speaker 1: I mean the least they could do is give you
Speaker 1: a all that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know I needed it. What was interesting with
Speaker 2: the recovery though, I do think it did take longer
Speaker 2: because they definitely don't give you as hard painkillers as Australia.
Speaker 2: It was really hard to get, Like I was like,
Speaker 2: I need something stronger than paned all, like this is
Speaker 2: really sore. In Australia, they will constant make sure you're
Speaker 2: not in pain, especially after a Caesar. But I found
Speaker 2: in Sweden I was literally like can I please have more?
Speaker 2: Can I please have more? And it was it was
Speaker 2: actually a real fight to get anything stronger than a
Speaker 2: pan at all. So I don't know why that is,
Speaker 2: but that was something.
Speaker 1: Because as I understand it, if you have a Caesar
Speaker 1: in Australia, they'll give you like an endome or something
Speaker 1: for the first day or.
Speaker 2: So or even longer. I think if you're like they
Speaker 2: in Australia, they just make sure that you're just not
Speaker 2: in pain at all. So I think in Australia you're
Speaker 2: on a very much a tight schedule of like ending
Speaker 2: panadol where possible, like every four hours, you're taking painkillers
Speaker 2: so you're never in pain. In Sweden they didn't even
Speaker 2: offer endome. That's my one piece of feedback for the
Speaker 2: Swedish medical system. That recovery was really hard. What was
Speaker 2: also really interesting about Sweden was they are really into
Speaker 2: skin to skin, so they actually don't even give you
Speaker 2: a cot in the room. Oh yeah, so you go
Speaker 2: back to your room and there's nowhere to put the
Speaker 2: baby down, and you don't stay in the hospital as long. Well,
Speaker 2: you know, in Australia I stayed in hospital maybe five
Speaker 2: nights with the caesar, but in Sweden they kind of
Speaker 2: want you to go home as soon as you can. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they don't have cots because it's all like the baby
Speaker 2: needs to be on your chest basically the whole time.
Speaker 2: So I found that's really strange because I was like, God,
Speaker 2: I just put him down for one second, but there's
Speaker 2: nowhere to put him down to encourage that like connection.
Speaker 2: The other thing that was really interesting is that they
Speaker 2: don't swaddle, so I had like taken my little swaddles
Speaker 2: from Australia. I'd made all my friends like, send me
Speaker 2: the materials that you like. I love the little Fraser swaddles,
Speaker 2: Jersey ones and so I was like swaddling him and
Speaker 2: they're like, what are you doing to your child? And
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, the ways you wake up. This
Speaker 2: is my plan. It's the more I reflex totally, and
Speaker 2: they just did. They were like, oh, this Australian that
Speaker 2: wants to put her baby down and swaddle it. There
Speaker 2: was just a few cultural differences as well.
Speaker 1: How old was Augie when you came back to Australia.
Speaker 2: So he was one when we moved back, which is
Speaker 2: ironic that he's a Swedish citizen what they all are,
Speaker 2: but he was actually born in Sweden and he's going
Speaker 2: to probably be the worst at Swedish well after me,
Speaker 2: after me.
Speaker 1: Final question the post care. Did you get like a
Speaker 1: nurse coming in after you like you got home.
Speaker 2: It's very similar to Australia. They come I think maybe
Speaker 2: two weeks after you come home and just see how
Speaker 2: you're going with the baby at home in your own environment.
Speaker 2: Then at the six week mark you see your midwife
Speaker 2: and then you continue with the nurse with the baby.
Speaker 2: So if you have any questions and it was quite
Speaker 2: regular checkups with the nurse and you know, she would
Speaker 2: weigh the baby very very similar, very similar process to
Speaker 2: a earlier But it was great because you kind of
Speaker 2: had this one nurse that you were assigned to, and
Speaker 2: so if we had any problems with Orgie's health or
Speaker 2: there was a question we had, we would just call her.
Speaker 2: So that was really really great. And then in terms
Speaker 2: of me, it was the same midwife afterwards. I think
Speaker 2: that care probably stopped after about maybe ten weeks, but
Speaker 2: it was still good that there was one person you
Speaker 2: could go to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, thank you so much for sharing
Speaker 1: your story and it's yeah, fascinating to hear that cultural difference,
Speaker 1: but terrifying as well with that season.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: So what does a team do when a spinal tap
Speaker 1: doesn't work? To get the answer, we asked our favorite
Speaker 1: obstetrician and gynecologist, doctor Bronwin Devine.
Speaker 3: Look, you can have an experience anitus who's done you know,
Speaker 3: thousands of these, and just some women they've had their
Speaker 3: spinal anesthetic can still feel pain. And people when they've
Speaker 3: had a spinal or an epidural, those regional blocks are
Speaker 3: designed to take away the sensation of pain and temperature
Speaker 3: because those nerve fibers run together. The way that the
Speaker 3: block works is to block the pain and temperature fibers,
Speaker 3: which is why they always test with ice. They say,
Speaker 3: this feel cold here. It's definitely cold up here on
Speaker 3: your face, but down here on your tummy and below
Speaker 3: where your legs are. No, it doesn't feel cold. Yep, no,
Speaker 3: it doesn't feel cold. So that's why they're testing it
Speaker 3: with temperature, because pain and temperature are affected the same
Speaker 3: way by those regional blocks. But if someone can feel
Speaker 3: pain during surgery, it's absolutely traumatic for that person. It
Speaker 3: can result in terrible PTSD and you know, flashbacks and
Speaker 3: things like that. It's just not okay. It's one of
Speaker 3: those things that just can't happen, you know. You hear
Speaker 3: these stories of people waking up under anesthesia when they're
Speaker 3: having other operations and how traumatic that is. You know,
Speaker 3: it's one of the absolute no, no, no, this cannot
Speaker 3: happen when people are having surgery. They cannot have the
Speaker 3: feeling of pain when they're having surgery performed on them.
Speaker 3: So we try very hard to do our caesarean sections
Speaker 3: under regional block because it is much much safer for
Speaker 3: the mum doing a caesar under general anesthetic. A pregnant woman,
Speaker 3: particularly a heavily pregnant woman, will have quite a lot
Speaker 3: of airway compromise just by dint of being pregnant and
Speaker 3: the extra fluid in her body, and you know the
Speaker 3: fact that she's got a lot of pressure in her
Speaker 3: abdomen and lots of things like that. So putting an
Speaker 3: endotra keel to you, which is what you have to
Speaker 3: have when you have a general anesthetic into someone when
Speaker 3: they have those extra complications of being pregnant, can be
Speaker 3: quite risky for the pregnant woman, and so it's become
Speaker 3: very much the norm to have caesarean sections performed under
Speaker 3: regional block, and an epidural takes quite a long time
Speaker 3: to go in. So that's why when people are having
Speaker 3: caesars that are either done electively or they've got to
Speaker 3: be done as an emergency and there is no epidural present,
Speaker 3: an esos will try and put a spinal in because
Speaker 3: it can work very quickly and you can get the
Speaker 3: spinal in quickly. It's a lot safer for the mum.
Speaker 3: But if a spinal is not effective, then we really
Speaker 3: have to abandon it and go to a general anesthetic.
Speaker 3: And when that's the case, you know, it's quite a
Speaker 3: high risk situation. The anthotist is always going to be
Speaker 3: quite tense about it. They need to get the partner
Speaker 3: out of the room because it's absolutely horrible seeing your
Speaker 3: loved one sort of become paralyzed and go off to
Speaker 3: sleep and be unresponsive. So they usually rush the partner
Speaker 3: out of the room and that's quite traumatic for them
Speaker 3: because they had every intention they were going to be
Speaker 3: there to see their baby being born. And then you know,
Speaker 3: because you know the surgery is already started, the anesis
Speaker 3: is under a lot of pressure to get that person
Speaker 3: to sleep very very quickly, but they have to be
Speaker 3: very careful. They need to do some preoxygenation and make
Speaker 3: sure that you know, they've got absolutely perfect access to
Speaker 3: the airway and things like that. So it's it really
Speaker 3: is quite a high stress, tense situation.
Speaker 1: And what about navigating different cultural requests in your practice.
Speaker 3: Australia's a very multicultural society, so we care for lots
Speaker 3: and lots of people from many different cultures and often
Speaker 3: there are specific requests that people have because they're used
Speaker 3: to a different procedure or a different process. I've certainly
Speaker 3: looked after Swedish women in pregnancy, and I have a
Speaker 3: German couple who come to see me at the moment,
Speaker 3: and they've had their first child in Germany, and so
Speaker 3: they'll often come and say to me when we're in Germany,
Speaker 3: they did this test. Do you offer that test? And
Speaker 3: you know when do I do this particular test, and
Speaker 3: sometimes bring the anti natal card from Germany and do
Speaker 3: a comparison to make sure that you know the things
Speaker 3: that they're used to are being offered here. I think
Speaker 3: in the Nordic countries, where the public health system is
Speaker 3: so well supported, it doesn't really make a lot of
Speaker 3: sense to do anything but go through the public system.
Speaker 3: But I guess also because a lot of healthcare is
Speaker 3: state funded, you know, they may not offer quite as
Speaker 3: many of them very expensive tests that we sort of
Speaker 3: take for granted here, like the NIPT. Certainly you do find,
Speaker 3: you know, say people come from a culture that's a
Speaker 3: resource for country, or a non Western culture where things
Speaker 3: are very very different. There can be specific requests of
Speaker 3: things that you haven't really encountered before, and so we
Speaker 3: try as absolutely hard as we can to help people
Speaker 3: achieve the birth that they want and do that in
Speaker 3: the most culturally sensitive way. So if we need to
Speaker 3: make policy adjustments and procedure adjustments within the realms of safety,
Speaker 3: we'll do that.
Speaker 1: Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Kasanu lukit
Speaker 1: with expert input from doctor Bronwin Divine and while we
Speaker 1: have you here, we're on the hunt to share powerful
Speaker 1: underrepresented stories from people of all cultures, backgrounds, and abilities,
Speaker 1: so please get in touch. This episode was produced by
Speaker 1: Tina Mattalov and myself kis Anu luk At, with audio
Speaker 1: production by Leah Porges.