WEBVTT - The Mum Whose C-Section Anaesthesia Failed in Sweden

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to another MIA podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges the

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<v Speaker 1>traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is

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<v Speaker 1>recorded on. We pay our respects to elders past, present

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<v Speaker 1>and emerging, and feel privileged to continue the sharing of

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<v Speaker 1>birth stories and knowledge that has been a fundamental part

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<v Speaker 1>of indigenous culture.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Cassania Lukit and this is diary of a birth.

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<v Speaker 1>Birth is different all over the world, both culturally and financially.

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<v Speaker 1>And while I'm fairly familiar with the way the system

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<v Speaker 1>works here in Australia, what does pregnancy and birth look

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<v Speaker 1>like in a socially democratic society like Sweden. Today's mum

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<v Speaker 1>had her first two children here in Australia and looking

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<v Speaker 1>for adventure, her and her Swedish partner flew across the

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<v Speaker 1>world and relocated to Sweden. Then she unexpectedly felt pregnant.

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<v Speaker 1>Navigating pregnancy halfway around the world wasn't always easy, especially

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<v Speaker 1>with a very unexpected complication during birth.

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<v Speaker 2>I just grabbed Gustaf and I was like, I can

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<v Speaker 2>feel everything. Please stop.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's meet today's mum.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi. I'm Eliza and this is the diary of my

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<v Speaker 2>birth with August.

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<v Speaker 1>So you were a part of the Mom and Maya family.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm the head of content at MoMA Mia and

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<v Speaker 2>it's so funny. This is actually my first podcast. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>normally behind the scenes, but I love this show and

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<v Speaker 2>I think every woman loves to tell their birth story,

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<v Speaker 2>so here I am.

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<v Speaker 1>As we know, every birth story is very different, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think what makes yours really interesting is that you

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<v Speaker 1>actually gave birth with your third child in Sweden.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that was nothing that I had really expected.

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<v Speaker 2>So I had two kids and my husband and I

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<v Speaker 2>packed up our lives and we moved to Sweden during COVID.

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<v Speaker 2>My husband Swedish, so it wasn't a random decision or

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<v Speaker 2>a random country. But we hopped on the plane. There

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<v Speaker 2>was only ten other people on the plane. It was

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<v Speaker 2>due at the height of the pandemic. And we went

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<v Speaker 2>just for a year for an adventure, and we arrived

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<v Speaker 2>and we ended up loving it, and we both ended

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<v Speaker 2>up getting jobs that we didn't expect. It just became great.

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<v Speaker 2>Everything seemed to really be working for us there. A

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<v Speaker 2>couple of months in, it would have been like six

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<v Speaker 2>months in. At this time, it's like November in Sweden,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's starting to snow, it's starting to get really cold.

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<v Speaker 2>We just had such a great summer and I started

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<v Speaker 2>feeling really sick, and one day I was like, oh

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<v Speaker 2>my god, I'm pregnant. I was actually in a cubicle

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<v Speaker 2>at work, like I'd gone to work early because I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, what's going on with me? I just felt,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you just know. And I did this pregnancy

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<v Speaker 2>test and look, it wasn't something we had necessarily wanted.

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<v Speaker 2>It was definitely a surprise and it was really hard.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I saw that test and I was across the

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<v Speaker 2>other side of the world on what we thought was

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<v Speaker 2>this adventure year. And we had also had discussions before

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<v Speaker 2>where we were like, oh, maybe our family's done. So

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<v Speaker 2>you know, this happened, and you know, you're thirty four

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<v Speaker 2>and you're like, of course, like we should do this,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, but you still felt so much guilt. I

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<v Speaker 2>felt so much guilt that I could fall pregnant when

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of my friends in Australia were trying to

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<v Speaker 2>fall pregnant with their first or second baby, and here

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<v Speaker 2>I was with a surprise baby. And so there was

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<v Speaker 2>a lot like it was a very hard pregnancy. Those

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<v Speaker 2>first couple of weeks of Oh my gosh, I'm across

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<v Speaker 2>the other side of the world. I'm away from my

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<v Speaker 2>close family. I still have my husband's family here, of course,

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<v Speaker 2>but none of my best friends are here. I've fallen

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<v Speaker 2>pregnant when a lot of other people would love to

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<v Speaker 2>be pregnant. I don't even know if I want this.

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<v Speaker 2>So it was there's a lot to take in. And

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<v Speaker 2>then coupled with that, I'm heading into my first winter

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<v Speaker 2>in Stockholm. So the temperature is minus twenty one degrees,

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<v Speaker 2>you can't go outside. I had never even experienced snow.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd never seen snow before. So the darkness, the coldness,

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<v Speaker 2>coupled with this strange like I don't know what's next

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<v Speaker 2>for my life, and then extreme morning sickness. So I

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<v Speaker 2>was so sick to the point I ended up in

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<v Speaker 2>hospital quite a few times actually, and there was one

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<v Speaker 2>incident in hospital where my throat was so sore. I

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<v Speaker 2>ended up having strep throat and I couldn't communicate with

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<v Speaker 2>the doctors. And because it was during COVID, you were

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<v Speaker 2>only allowed to go to the hospital, so my husband

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<v Speaker 2>was at home looking after them. I can barely communicate

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<v Speaker 2>with the doctors. I just want to go home. Like

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<v Speaker 2>it was really really hard at the start. But at

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<v Speaker 2>the like ten week mark, we told my mum and

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<v Speaker 2>my dad as well my in laws, and they were

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<v Speaker 2>so excited for us, and I think at that point

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<v Speaker 2>we were like, yes, lose this attitude. We are so excited.

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<v Speaker 2>We are already parents of two. We know how to

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<v Speaker 2>do this. We can bring this child up. It is

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<v Speaker 2>actually going to be okay. And so that kind of

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<v Speaker 2>put a lot of our you know, it was still

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<v Speaker 2>a cold to take in. It quashed a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>our worries. And then what was so nice was we

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<v Speaker 2>told the boys. So we have two boys at that time,

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<v Speaker 2>they would have been four and five, so we had

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<v Speaker 2>them quite close. Because you had them so close, I

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<v Speaker 2>never got to see the oldest really understand that he

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<v Speaker 2>was getting a younger brother. So it was just incredible

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<v Speaker 2>to be able to tell them and they were like,

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<v Speaker 2>what do you mean we got a baby? Like wow,

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<v Speaker 2>how did the baby come? And I was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>you're six, we're not talking about that yet. But that

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<v Speaker 2>was really exciting. Like, so, what was so interesting about

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<v Speaker 2>this pregnancy was that we were so nervous and scared

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<v Speaker 2>about it, but everyone around us was so excited it

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<v Speaker 2>also just changed everything. It meant that we stayed in

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<v Speaker 2>Stockholm longer, and yeah, it was really really incredible.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I want to go back a little bit to

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<v Speaker 1>the guilt thing because I actually find that really interesting

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<v Speaker 1>because I struggled to fall pregnant with my first and

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<v Speaker 1>I had a lot of friends who did fall pregnant

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<v Speaker 1>and hesitated telling me because they didn't want to make

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<v Speaker 1>me feel bad. It's interesting that you said that you

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<v Speaker 1>felt guilt. Was there someone in your life who was

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<v Speaker 1>really trying and you felt that guilt particularly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, before we left to go to Sweden, two of

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<v Speaker 2>my best friends were both trying and we had had

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<v Speaker 2>lots of conversations, the three of us. They were both

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<v Speaker 2>trying for their second child, and we'd had a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of conversations like where they were like, it's just not working,

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<v Speaker 2>We're doing everything, what about this? And I was really

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<v Speaker 2>part of those conversations with them, And so when I

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<v Speaker 2>found out when it had been a surprise, I did

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<v Speaker 2>immediately go, oh my god, it is a really hard feeling.

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<v Speaker 2>But the irony actually was both of them were pregnant,

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<v Speaker 2>so I told them and they told me, and all

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<v Speaker 2>of our kids are actually around two weeks apart, so

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<v Speaker 2>it did all work out, but it doesn't for everyone,

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<v Speaker 2>and it is really hard. And I think what's really

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<v Speaker 2>hard about pregnancy is even I found this with my

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<v Speaker 2>first I have always been quite sick in my pregnancies

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<v Speaker 2>and I haven't loved it. And you have this like

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<v Speaker 2>internal struggle where you're so excited and you know how

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<v Speaker 2>lucky you are, but you also know people would want

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<v Speaker 2>to be in your place, so you don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>complain too much about it. I do think there is

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<v Speaker 2>this really interesting pool that we have when it comes

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<v Speaker 2>to fertility privilege, because like I do think I am

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<v Speaker 2>very fortunate when it comes to like my fertility privilege,

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<v Speaker 2>but it doesn't mean like every moment has been really easy.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the empathy that you show is really beautiful,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think that anyone that is struggling with fertility

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<v Speaker 1>and has that empathy, that's kind of what a friendship needs.

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<v Speaker 1>I know this isn't really what this is about, but

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<v Speaker 1>I'm really fascinated by that because I remember counting the

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<v Speaker 1>amount of people that felt pregnant while we were trying,

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<v Speaker 1>and it like hurt every time, and it was one

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<v Speaker 1>of those things where it was like I'm really happy

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<v Speaker 1>for them, but I'm really sad for me. Yeah. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's that kind of double edge sold And I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>that you felt the same that You're like, I feel

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<v Speaker 1>really happy, but then I'm like this guilt of you know,

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<v Speaker 1>my friends who really want that.

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<v Speaker 2>But also I found like with my first, my first

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<v Speaker 2>took longer, and I do remember I'd see pregnant woman

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<v Speaker 2>walking down the street and I'd be like, oh, I

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<v Speaker 2>hate her. Yeah, And so it's one of those things

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<v Speaker 2>when you do go you know both sides. You're like,

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<v Speaker 2>I know that this person would be happy for me,

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<v Speaker 2>but I also would hate me. Like, so it's so conflicated.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just part of being women, and like the empathy.

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<v Speaker 2>Women do feel like you're right, like I do think

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<v Speaker 2>women are just socially can understand these situations probably better

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<v Speaker 2>than men, Like how hard it is to try and

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<v Speaker 2>how hard it is to want something and not get it,

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<v Speaker 2>and so when that comes to you really easily, you

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<v Speaker 2>do feel guilt.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's move on to being pregnant in Sweden. Now, obviously

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<v Speaker 1>you didn't speak the language, you had two small children

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<v Speaker 1>who were in daycare school. How did that process work?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I was working full time in Sweden. I

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<v Speaker 2>was working for Voke Scandinavia. It was all done in English,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's a very easy huntry to get around with English.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was very lazy learning Swedish. The Swedish system,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a social democratic system, so it's incredible. I kick

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<v Speaker 2>myself while I'm not still there. It's so incredible. All

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<v Speaker 2>of daycare, all of the schooling is paid for. So

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<v Speaker 2>I think our BI bills were probably equivalent of about

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred and fifty dollars Australian a month a month,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's full time sorry for childcare for childcare, yeah wow, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so I know, it's so silly. Why am I not there? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so they're in childcare full time. I was working full time,

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<v Speaker 2>so it was all relatively quite easy in that sense that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I had quite a lot of care and

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<v Speaker 2>support around that. The prenatal care was very different in

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<v Speaker 2>the sense that in Australia I had gone through the

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<v Speaker 2>private system, so I had an obstetrician who then I

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<v Speaker 2>saw every week of whatever you know when you do

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<v Speaker 2>it every eight weeks. But in Sweden, once again it's

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<v Speaker 2>you pay high taxes, but it does mean a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of that healthcare is free, so it's really rare to

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<v Speaker 2>have private I wouldn't even know how to go about it.

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<v Speaker 2>What the system is. It is a midwife program, so

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<v Speaker 2>you have a provider that you go to and it's

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<v Speaker 2>this same midwife, and if she's away, there's two others

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<v Speaker 2>that you work with, so you're always meeting the same

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<v Speaker 2>midwife in a location near you. Actually, those locations normally

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<v Speaker 2>then have a nurse who then you see afterwards with

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<v Speaker 2>your child, so it's quite nice. It's the before and

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<v Speaker 2>after care is all done in one space. Then you

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<v Speaker 2>do your scans at a hospital where then you see

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<v Speaker 2>a doctor at the scans. But what was interesting is

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<v Speaker 2>Sweden didn't do the blood test that you can do

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<v Speaker 2>in Australia to find out the sexbat Yeah, so I

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<v Speaker 2>had found out quite early the sex of my first

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<v Speaker 2>two boys, so it wasn't until a scan at halfway

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<v Speaker 2>scan that I found out the sex when it came

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<v Speaker 2>to August and he was another boy. There were a

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<v Speaker 2>few differences, Yeah, I think definitely the Swedish system is

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<v Speaker 2>a lot more hands off in the sense that there's

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<v Speaker 2>not as many tests. They're just a bit more chill

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<v Speaker 2>like just in general the society is a lot more chill.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, because I mean it's fairly normal here in

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<v Speaker 1>Australia at that sort of ten eleven week mark to

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<v Speaker 1>do a nit test. You know, you do the blood

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<v Speaker 1>test for the genetic testing and you can find out

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<v Speaker 1>the sex. And like you, I was very impatient and

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<v Speaker 1>found out straight away. But they don't even offer that.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, it wasn't even offered.

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<v Speaker 1>Did that frustrate you or were you okay with that? Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, what do you mean I have to

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<v Speaker 2>wait twenty weeks? How dare you? Yeah? So as a

0:12:48.693 --> 0:12:52.733
<v Speaker 2>really impatient person, it did frustrate me. I'm sure if

0:12:52.813 --> 0:12:56.653
<v Speaker 2>you looked into it more potentially, but it wasn't even offered. Yeah,

0:12:56.773 --> 0:12:59.333
<v Speaker 2>it was just interesting. There was just little things. We

0:12:59.453 --> 0:13:05.653
<v Speaker 2>never did the glucose tests, okay, yeah. I think there's

0:13:05.693 --> 0:13:09.293
<v Speaker 2>also different diseases in Sweden, so there was different vaccinations

0:13:09.333 --> 0:13:11.973
<v Speaker 2>that I had to receive, so there was just some differences.

0:13:12.613 --> 0:13:15.573
<v Speaker 2>It's really interesting giving birth in a different place.

0:13:15.933 --> 0:13:18.453
<v Speaker 1>I just think it's fascinating to hear about the different

0:13:18.533 --> 0:13:24.773
<v Speaker 1>systems and obviously Sweden have an incredible healthcare system and

0:13:24.853 --> 0:13:27.533
<v Speaker 1>to have it all that support is amazing. But to

0:13:27.613 --> 0:13:31.693
<v Speaker 1>hear those little, those little mayor differences is quite interesting.

0:13:32.173 --> 0:13:35.133
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because I think when I went private in Australia,

0:13:35.213 --> 0:13:37.853
<v Speaker 2>each time you see your obstitution, you're doing a scan

0:13:37.933 --> 0:13:40.373
<v Speaker 2>and you're seeing the baby. I didn't see the baby

0:13:40.373 --> 0:13:43.732
<v Speaker 2>as much. I only saw the baby once or twice

0:13:44.133 --> 0:13:48.413
<v Speaker 2>on scans, So it was Yeah, it just is more chill.

0:13:48.573 --> 0:13:50.013
<v Speaker 2>I think that's the best way to say it.

0:13:50.253 --> 0:13:54.293
<v Speaker 1>And what about the actual birthing process. Is there a

0:13:54.293 --> 0:13:58.133
<v Speaker 1>bit more of a push first home births or midwa

0:13:58.213 --> 0:14:02.813
<v Speaker 1>free support or what is the general consensus of birth

0:14:03.013 --> 0:14:03.733
<v Speaker 1>in Sweden?

0:14:04.213 --> 0:14:07.973
<v Speaker 2>It's very much whatever you want. It's not really a

0:14:07.973 --> 0:14:11.173
<v Speaker 2>push for anything. Like I said, they're very chill like.

0:14:11.253 --> 0:14:13.413
<v Speaker 2>They're so like, oh yeah, if you want to do formula,

0:14:13.573 --> 0:14:16.613
<v Speaker 2>do formula, if you don't want to breastfeed, whatever. For me,

0:14:17.453 --> 0:14:20.613
<v Speaker 2>I had had an emergency caesar for my first birth,

0:14:20.933 --> 0:14:23.173
<v Speaker 2>so I'd then had a planned caesar for my second

0:14:23.253 --> 0:14:26.373
<v Speaker 2>because it was within an eighteen month period, and so

0:14:26.573 --> 0:14:29.533
<v Speaker 2>with August, they weren't even going to let me try

0:14:29.773 --> 0:14:32.293
<v Speaker 2>a vaginal birth, which I was so happy with.

0:14:32.533 --> 0:14:36.813
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you've spoken to your providers and you're locking

0:14:36.893 --> 0:14:40.813
<v Speaker 1>in your C section date. When did you do that?

0:14:41.253 --> 0:14:44.213
<v Speaker 2>So I think we locked in the date probably at

0:14:44.213 --> 0:14:47.053
<v Speaker 2>around the twenty week mark. They're like, okay, we'll put

0:14:47.053 --> 0:14:49.893
<v Speaker 2>you in for the ninth of August. And it was

0:14:50.013 --> 0:14:55.493
<v Speaker 2>all really planned and really quite simple and easy. I

0:14:55.573 --> 0:14:58.453
<v Speaker 2>did have some pretty bad oh by the end. I

0:14:58.493 --> 0:15:02.333
<v Speaker 2>was just like so heavy and the pressure. I was

0:15:02.413 --> 0:15:03.973
<v Speaker 2>in quite a lot of pain at the end, and

0:15:04.013 --> 0:15:05.653
<v Speaker 2>I did. There was a few times where I'm like,

0:15:05.813 --> 0:15:07.613
<v Speaker 2>I think I might be going into labor, Like it

0:15:07.693 --> 0:15:10.693
<v Speaker 2>really hurts, I can't walk anymore, you know, just that pain,

0:15:10.773 --> 0:15:13.733
<v Speaker 2>that heavy pain, And so I'd just turn up at

0:15:13.733 --> 0:15:16.613
<v Speaker 2>the hospital and be like I'm in pain and they're like, okay,

0:15:16.653 --> 0:15:19.493
<v Speaker 2>come and lie down and we'll test you. So it

0:15:19.573 --> 0:15:24.053
<v Speaker 2>was quite good. Every time. They were so sweet. Every

0:15:24.133 --> 0:15:27.813
<v Speaker 2>time that would turn up, they'd be like, you're just exhausted,

0:15:27.853 --> 0:15:30.013
<v Speaker 2>like you have two kids, in a full time job

0:15:30.213 --> 0:15:33.813
<v Speaker 2>and you're carrying a baby, like just go home. But

0:15:33.853 --> 0:15:36.973
<v Speaker 2>the system made you never feel like you were overreacting

0:15:37.373 --> 0:15:39.533
<v Speaker 2>or they were always just like no, it's always better

0:15:39.573 --> 0:15:41.493
<v Speaker 2>to be safe than sorry, which I found, like you

0:15:41.533 --> 0:15:44.493
<v Speaker 2>find in Australia as well. It was really lovely care

0:15:45.013 --> 0:15:48.133
<v Speaker 2>coming up like I'd have flashbacks and be like, oh,

0:15:48.173 --> 0:15:52.333
<v Speaker 2>that was really scary. It's really interesting. I think had

0:15:52.853 --> 0:15:56.373
<v Speaker 2>August have been my first, I would have found it

0:15:56.413 --> 0:15:58.453
<v Speaker 2>probably hard to want to have another baby.

0:16:02.813 --> 0:16:05.453
<v Speaker 1>You go in on your planned day, you're at your

0:16:05.453 --> 0:16:08.373
<v Speaker 1>sort of thirty nine week mark. Tell me about the preparation.

0:16:09.053 --> 0:16:12.333
<v Speaker 2>So I am so ready to have this baby. Oh

0:16:12.373 --> 0:16:16.573
<v Speaker 2>my god. Like I was huge and just felt so

0:16:16.733 --> 0:16:20.733
<v Speaker 2>heavy and so sore and so bloody tired. So I

0:16:20.773 --> 0:16:23.733
<v Speaker 2>was so ready to have this baby. Also, it was summer,

0:16:23.853 --> 0:16:28.293
<v Speaker 2>So summer in Sweden is incredible because everyone just shuts down.

0:16:28.573 --> 0:16:31.213
<v Speaker 2>So everyone goes on like a five way holiday because

0:16:31.213 --> 0:16:33.653
<v Speaker 2>it like is literally twenty two degrees, which is like

0:16:33.693 --> 0:16:35.933
<v Speaker 2>a heat wave there, so they're all like, yay, let's

0:16:35.973 --> 0:16:39.733
<v Speaker 2>get out there. No one's working. I'd had like four

0:16:39.733 --> 0:16:43.773
<v Speaker 2>weeks off where we'd traveled and you know, I'd waddled around,

0:16:44.053 --> 0:16:46.133
<v Speaker 2>but I'd had some really nice time with the boys,

0:16:46.173 --> 0:16:48.933
<v Speaker 2>who were then on holidays as well. We lived near

0:16:48.973 --> 0:16:51.013
<v Speaker 2>our in laws, so the boys were all planned to

0:16:51.053 --> 0:16:54.853
<v Speaker 2>go there. I'd bought like a cute little matching set

0:16:54.933 --> 0:16:58.253
<v Speaker 2>for the of the hospital, packed my bags. I was

0:16:58.773 --> 0:17:02.013
<v Speaker 2>really prepped. My parents were also going to fly from

0:17:02.013 --> 0:17:05.213
<v Speaker 2>Australia to come, so once I was out of hospital,

0:17:05.253 --> 0:17:08.933
<v Speaker 2>they would be there. So I was feeling like maybe

0:17:08.933 --> 0:17:11.053
<v Speaker 2>probably a little bit arrogant, like I was like, I've

0:17:11.052 --> 0:17:15.013
<v Speaker 2>got this, this is great. So I went in really calm,

0:17:15.173 --> 0:17:17.652
<v Speaker 2>expecting that it would all be fine and that, like

0:17:17.853 --> 0:17:19.493
<v Speaker 2>I knew the drill a little bit, you.

0:17:19.532 --> 0:17:21.213
<v Speaker 1>Felt prepared and you were prepared.

0:17:21.613 --> 0:17:22.853
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, tell us.

0:17:22.773 --> 0:17:26.133
<v Speaker 1>What happened when they gave you the spinal tap?

0:17:26.493 --> 0:17:30.013
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so look that part I remember with my second

0:17:31.173 --> 0:17:33.453
<v Speaker 2>I remember walking in to have a CAESAR and being like,

0:17:33.533 --> 0:17:35.613
<v Speaker 2>oh wow, this is a lot clinical than I thought,

0:17:35.853 --> 0:17:37.733
<v Speaker 2>Like you're going to labor and you're like cool, I'm

0:17:37.733 --> 0:17:40.853
<v Speaker 2>having a baby, and you're in that mindset. And then

0:17:40.933 --> 0:17:43.693
<v Speaker 2>I ended up having emergency caesar, which was actually fine

0:17:43.733 --> 0:17:46.253
<v Speaker 2>and beautiful and I loved it. But then the second

0:17:46.293 --> 0:17:49.853
<v Speaker 2>time around, having a planned CAESAR, I realized that you're

0:17:49.853 --> 0:17:53.093
<v Speaker 2>going in for an operation, and I did actually find

0:17:53.093 --> 0:17:56.653
<v Speaker 2>that quite nerve wracking. And I do remember like shaking

0:17:56.693 --> 0:17:59.253
<v Speaker 2>as you're getting because before I was in labor, so

0:17:59.333 --> 0:18:02.493
<v Speaker 2>having a spinal tap and when you're in labor it's

0:18:02.573 --> 0:18:05.333
<v Speaker 2>kind of part of it, but to go in cold

0:18:05.853 --> 0:18:07.373
<v Speaker 2>and have that in your back, like it is quite

0:18:07.413 --> 0:18:10.292
<v Speaker 2>nerve wracking, Like I'm quite scared of needles. I was,

0:18:10.653 --> 0:18:12.213
<v Speaker 2>like I was a bit nervous about that.

0:18:12.413 --> 0:18:14.133
<v Speaker 1>Is good stuff with you at this point.

0:18:14.413 --> 0:18:17.133
<v Speaker 2>So you wheeled into the room. So your husband comes

0:18:17.173 --> 0:18:19.292
<v Speaker 2>with you. He's in his scrubs. You know, all the

0:18:19.333 --> 0:18:22.893
<v Speaker 2>doctors speak English. Obviously their first language is Swedish, so

0:18:22.933 --> 0:18:24.973
<v Speaker 2>they probably talk Swedish to each other, but everyone can

0:18:24.973 --> 0:18:28.493
<v Speaker 2>speak English to me. So I feel completely fine and

0:18:28.613 --> 0:18:31.893
<v Speaker 2>I'm at ease beneath it. Us is so lovely. She

0:18:32.053 --> 0:18:34.013
<v Speaker 2>explains what she's going to do. She puts a spinal

0:18:34.053 --> 0:18:36.813
<v Speaker 2>tap in. She moves me into the room, and then

0:18:36.813 --> 0:18:39.693
<v Speaker 2>what they do is to test that the area is

0:18:39.813 --> 0:18:44.373
<v Speaker 2>numb to cut, they use ice. So with a C section,

0:18:44.613 --> 0:18:47.653
<v Speaker 2>you still can feel the tugging because you are awake.

0:18:48.093 --> 0:18:50.653
<v Speaker 2>It's just you don't feel the pain and new that

0:18:50.893 --> 0:18:53.493
<v Speaker 2>and I know how it feels. So it's quite a

0:18:53.573 --> 0:18:56.132
<v Speaker 2>strange sensation because you are numb, but you still know

0:18:56.413 --> 0:18:59.853
<v Speaker 2>that they're there. So they're doing the ice tests and

0:19:00.093 --> 0:19:02.693
<v Speaker 2>you can feel one part of you feels the ice

0:19:02.813 --> 0:19:04.613
<v Speaker 2>is cold, and then the other part's just kind of

0:19:04.653 --> 0:19:07.693
<v Speaker 2>not meant to feel it. She just kept doing it

0:19:07.693 --> 0:19:09.213
<v Speaker 2>to me, and I was like, no, I can still

0:19:09.253 --> 0:19:11.293
<v Speaker 2>feel it. I can still feel it. So they put

0:19:11.293 --> 0:19:15.493
<v Speaker 2>more in, They put more of the anesthetic in, and

0:19:15.533 --> 0:19:19.173
<v Speaker 2>this just keeps happening for about maybe forty minutes. At

0:19:19.173 --> 0:19:22.693
<v Speaker 2>this point, you're so to have a baby. I'm kind

0:19:22.733 --> 0:19:26.893
<v Speaker 2>of also confused because you know that it's not meant

0:19:26.893 --> 0:19:29.973
<v Speaker 2>to be cold, but you know that you still can

0:19:30.133 --> 0:19:33.773
<v Speaker 2>feel it. So by this point, I also was just

0:19:33.773 --> 0:19:36.773
<v Speaker 2>so desperate to have this baby that I was like,

0:19:37.173 --> 0:19:39.853
<v Speaker 2>I think it's working. Because they were like, oh, look,

0:19:39.893 --> 0:19:42.493
<v Speaker 2>maybe we have to come back and try again if

0:19:42.573 --> 0:19:44.973
<v Speaker 2>you don't think it's working. And I was like, no,

0:19:45.133 --> 0:19:47.013
<v Speaker 2>I think it's working. And they're like, yeah, we've given

0:19:47.053 --> 0:19:49.413
<v Speaker 2>you quite a lot, like it should be working. So

0:19:49.453 --> 0:19:52.173
<v Speaker 2>I was like, no, no, I think it's workings, let's go.

0:19:52.493 --> 0:19:55.493
<v Speaker 1>So they believed you. They believe that you still felt

0:19:55.533 --> 0:19:57.572
<v Speaker 1>that because I think I've heard stories of people who

0:19:57.653 --> 0:19:59.453
<v Speaker 1>were like I can feel pain, like no, no, no,

0:19:59.533 --> 0:20:02.773
<v Speaker 1>it's fine. They were reassuring you.

0:20:03.053 --> 0:20:06.173
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they were reassuring, and they were like, Okay, we've

0:20:06.173 --> 0:20:09.013
<v Speaker 2>put this in, we'll try again. We'll give you more time.

0:20:09.773 --> 0:20:12.013
<v Speaker 2>This exchange had gone on four forty minutes and they

0:20:12.013 --> 0:20:14.213
<v Speaker 2>were like this, it's been forty minutes now, like we

0:20:14.413 --> 0:20:17.052
<v Speaker 2>kind of have to either call it and cry and

0:20:17.133 --> 0:20:19.533
<v Speaker 2>come back this afternoon or we give it like five

0:20:19.533 --> 0:20:22.653
<v Speaker 2>more minutes. And I was like, no, I think I

0:20:22.693 --> 0:20:26.213
<v Speaker 2>can't feel anything, so like, let's go. They obviously start

0:20:26.253 --> 0:20:29.173
<v Speaker 2>the operation and a C section takes about eight minutes,

0:20:29.293 --> 0:20:32.653
<v Speaker 2>so it's incredibly fast, and it is It's so incredible

0:20:32.653 --> 0:20:35.453
<v Speaker 2>because it's like within eight minutes you have this baby.

0:20:35.693 --> 0:20:38.572
<v Speaker 2>And so they put up the screen. I'm holding Gustaf's

0:20:38.573 --> 0:20:41.733
<v Speaker 2>hand and they're cutting and you can still like feel

0:20:41.733 --> 0:20:44.093
<v Speaker 2>a little bit. And then there's just one point where

0:20:44.173 --> 0:20:47.493
<v Speaker 2>I will never forget this moment. I just grabbed Gustaff

0:20:47.613 --> 0:20:50.453
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, I can feel every like I

0:20:50.453 --> 0:20:54.653
<v Speaker 2>can feel everything. Please stop. And at that point they

0:20:54.693 --> 0:20:58.253
<v Speaker 2>all start speaking Swedish. They rush, they push good stuff

0:20:58.293 --> 0:21:00.173
<v Speaker 2>out of the room, and they go, okay, we need

0:21:00.213 --> 0:21:02.973
<v Speaker 2>to put you under. So they put me under general

0:21:03.013 --> 0:21:05.453
<v Speaker 2>anesthetic and I'm completely then knocked out.

0:21:05.813 --> 0:21:08.453
<v Speaker 1>So you've felt them cut you open.

0:21:08.693 --> 0:21:12.613
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So what I had felt was I think they'd

0:21:12.653 --> 0:21:15.413
<v Speaker 2>done one layer, that it had worked. But then it

0:21:15.493 --> 0:21:18.293
<v Speaker 2>was like I don't know the medical facts, but there

0:21:18.333 --> 0:21:20.812
<v Speaker 2>are a few different layers that they cut through, and

0:21:20.853 --> 0:21:23.413
<v Speaker 2>it was maybe the third layer that I could feel,

0:21:23.733 --> 0:21:26.453
<v Speaker 2>and at that point I was just I will never

0:21:26.533 --> 0:21:29.532
<v Speaker 2>forget the grip on my husband. I was just like

0:21:30.493 --> 0:21:33.653
<v Speaker 2>I can feel this, Please help. Yeah, screamed and I

0:21:33.733 --> 0:21:35.613
<v Speaker 2>just remember like no, no, no, no, no stop. So

0:21:35.613 --> 0:21:38.453
<v Speaker 2>I like, yeah, it was all over for me. They

0:21:38.573 --> 0:21:41.693
<v Speaker 2>knocked me out so quickly. I was under general anesthetic.

0:21:41.933 --> 0:21:44.653
<v Speaker 2>So during that time they then continued to operate where

0:21:44.653 --> 0:21:48.493
<v Speaker 2>I was completely knocked out. August was then born and

0:21:48.533 --> 0:21:50.773
<v Speaker 2>he was examined and given to my husband to do

0:21:50.853 --> 0:21:54.573
<v Speaker 2>skin on skin, and then I woke up maybe half

0:21:54.613 --> 0:21:57.332
<v Speaker 2>an hour later, and I woke up and I was like, oh,

0:21:57.413 --> 0:21:59.453
<v Speaker 2>I really needed that sleep, and they're like, you have

0:21:59.493 --> 0:22:04.093
<v Speaker 2>a baby. I was like, oh okay, because you're so disorientated.

0:22:04.253 --> 0:22:07.413
<v Speaker 2>You know when you wake up from an operation and

0:22:07.453 --> 0:22:10.173
<v Speaker 2>you're a bit disorientated. I woke up and I was like, oh, oh,

0:22:10.213 --> 0:22:14.133
<v Speaker 2>I have a baby. It was bizarre. It was really bizarre.

0:22:14.493 --> 0:22:16.533
<v Speaker 1>Bizar's definitely one would I just want to go back.

0:22:16.573 --> 0:22:20.493
<v Speaker 1>So they were very very fast with this. You said

0:22:20.533 --> 0:22:25.253
<v Speaker 1>I feel this, and the anetheist comes and just basically

0:22:25.333 --> 0:22:28.093
<v Speaker 1>knocks you out. There was no yeah, are you ready

0:22:28.093 --> 0:22:29.853
<v Speaker 1>to be knocked out? It was like not, We're putting

0:22:29.853 --> 0:22:30.253
<v Speaker 1>you under.

0:22:30.813 --> 0:22:33.493
<v Speaker 2>It was a flurry and it was good stuff. You

0:22:33.533 --> 0:22:35.253
<v Speaker 2>have to leave. You can't be here for years. We

0:22:35.333 --> 0:22:38.053
<v Speaker 2>need to put her under. And you feel like you're

0:22:38.093 --> 0:22:41.213
<v Speaker 2>in a medical show where it's that flurry around you.

0:22:41.293 --> 0:22:44.053
<v Speaker 2>And it was like, okay, like everyone out, We've got

0:22:44.053 --> 0:22:48.733
<v Speaker 2>to put her under. When I woke up, I didn't

0:22:48.853 --> 0:22:51.533
<v Speaker 2>kind of realize the extent of what I'd gone through

0:22:51.573 --> 0:22:55.013
<v Speaker 2>a little bit. I had August. He was safe, he

0:22:55.093 --> 0:22:59.253
<v Speaker 2>was really great baby, he fed really well. So I

0:22:59.293 --> 0:23:01.453
<v Speaker 2>don't think it was until like a couple of months

0:23:01.533 --> 0:23:04.493
<v Speaker 2>later when things got hard, you know, when you're waking

0:23:04.573 --> 0:23:08.013
<v Speaker 2>up at night, like I'd have flashbacks and be like, oh,

0:23:08.053 --> 0:23:12.213
<v Speaker 2>that was really scary. It's really interesting. I think had

0:23:12.733 --> 0:23:16.292
<v Speaker 2>August have been my first, I would have found it

0:23:16.333 --> 0:23:19.773
<v Speaker 2>probably hard to want to have another baby. Maybe. Yeah,

0:23:20.053 --> 0:23:22.133
<v Speaker 2>it's one of those if I think about too long,

0:23:23.053 --> 0:23:26.653
<v Speaker 2>it was quite scary. Yeah, but in the moment, like

0:23:26.813 --> 0:23:29.413
<v Speaker 2>the next day, and because you have a baby, you

0:23:29.533 --> 0:23:30.773
<v Speaker 2>kind of just soldier on a bit.

0:23:31.173 --> 0:23:33.653
<v Speaker 1>I completely understand that. I'm just thinking about how quickly

0:23:33.693 --> 0:23:38.733
<v Speaker 1>that happened and Obviously you're probably not entirely cognizant of

0:23:38.773 --> 0:23:41.973
<v Speaker 1>what's going on, But has good staff told you what

0:23:42.253 --> 0:23:45.373
<v Speaker 1>he felt when he was basically pushed out of the room. Yeah,

0:23:45.373 --> 0:23:48.013
<v Speaker 1>he was like it happened so quickly. He's like, I

0:23:48.053 --> 0:23:50.332
<v Speaker 1>just was not allowed to be there. And then he's like,

0:23:50.373 --> 0:23:52.532
<v Speaker 1>but it was nice, like I got to have Orgie

0:23:52.533 --> 0:23:55.093
<v Speaker 1>and I knew you were safe. Like he knew it

0:23:55.853 --> 0:23:59.733
<v Speaker 1>was bad, but no one felt endangered. Yeah, so it

0:23:59.813 --> 0:24:02.253
<v Speaker 1>was just more oh my god, like what's happening. It

0:24:02.293 --> 0:24:03.333
<v Speaker 1>was also just so quick.

0:24:03.893 --> 0:24:07.013
<v Speaker 2>I think, yeah, he probably loved that he got to

0:24:07.093 --> 0:24:11.613
<v Speaker 2>have the baby first. But it's funny when you wake

0:24:11.693 --> 0:24:15.013
<v Speaker 2>up and you're so drugged. There's video of me and

0:24:15.453 --> 0:24:19.253
<v Speaker 2>like what I'm saying, it's like almost comical. It's like

0:24:19.373 --> 0:24:23.693
<v Speaker 2>one of those like hilarious comedies where the person wakes

0:24:23.773 --> 0:24:28.213
<v Speaker 2>up on painkillers and what I'm saying, it's ridiculou. I'm embarrassed.

0:24:29.013 --> 0:24:31.292
<v Speaker 1>Did you wake up and go, am I pregnant? Or

0:24:31.333 --> 0:24:32.253
<v Speaker 1>have I had a baby?

0:24:32.333 --> 0:24:34.973
<v Speaker 2>Like? I was just like that was the first sleep

0:24:35.013 --> 0:24:40.613
<v Speaker 2>of my life, and I was like, it was really

0:24:40.653 --> 0:24:43.173
<v Speaker 2>good that it happened like this, Like I just really

0:24:43.293 --> 0:24:45.653
<v Speaker 2>needed a sleep and because I was like, you've literally

0:24:45.653 --> 0:24:46.733
<v Speaker 2>been out for thirty minutes.

0:24:47.533 --> 0:24:49.013
<v Speaker 1>It must have been a really good nap.

0:24:50.133 --> 0:24:53.132
<v Speaker 2>It was a great thirty minute nap, but it was

0:24:53.533 --> 0:24:54.933
<v Speaker 2>not ideal what happened?

0:24:55.093 --> 0:24:59.653
<v Speaker 1>No, and then August came and how soon after you

0:24:59.773 --> 0:25:01.613
<v Speaker 1>woke up or you able to hold him?

0:25:02.093 --> 0:25:04.092
<v Speaker 2>They put him on my chest pretty soon, And so

0:25:04.173 --> 0:25:06.413
<v Speaker 2>that's where there's like video of me and he's on

0:25:06.453 --> 0:25:08.893
<v Speaker 2>my chest and I'm like, aren't you cute? Where did

0:25:08.933 --> 0:25:11.853
<v Speaker 2>you get this little beanie from? Like that's quite funny

0:25:11.853 --> 0:25:15.373
<v Speaker 2>footage because I'm still very like coming to after the

0:25:15.413 --> 0:25:18.173
<v Speaker 2>general anesthetic. So he was on my chest straight away.

0:25:18.253 --> 0:25:20.613
<v Speaker 2>I could start feeding him straight away. I also knew

0:25:20.773 --> 0:25:23.532
<v Speaker 2>the drill that often with cesareans you can't get up

0:25:23.533 --> 0:25:26.092
<v Speaker 2>and walk after twenty four hours. I knew that my

0:25:26.213 --> 0:25:29.533
<v Speaker 2>recovery would be like that. It was interesting. The next

0:25:29.613 --> 0:25:33.173
<v Speaker 2>day the Unethodus came and spoke to me and she said, look,

0:25:33.253 --> 0:25:36.893
<v Speaker 2>I honestly did everything right. If I had to do that, Docige,

0:25:36.973 --> 0:25:39.013
<v Speaker 2>I would still do it again. And I said, why

0:25:39.053 --> 0:25:41.013
<v Speaker 2>do you think this happened to me? And she just said,

0:25:41.133 --> 0:25:44.812
<v Speaker 2>I'm quite tall, and she's like, sometimes it's to do

0:25:44.933 --> 0:25:48.493
<v Speaker 2>with height, but it had worked the other two times

0:25:48.493 --> 0:25:51.093
<v Speaker 2>that I'd had it, So yeah, she was like, I

0:25:51.133 --> 0:25:54.253
<v Speaker 2>really don't understand what went wrong, and you know, she

0:25:55.373 --> 0:25:58.853
<v Speaker 2>guess she apologized for what happened and tried to talk

0:25:58.933 --> 0:26:01.413
<v Speaker 2>me through it. But at the end of the day, like,

0:26:01.973 --> 0:26:05.572
<v Speaker 2>I got a healthy baby and I'm healthy, so it

0:26:05.653 --> 0:26:06.372
<v Speaker 2>was all fine.

0:26:06.653 --> 0:26:09.013
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I mean you can also acknowledge the fact

0:26:09.053 --> 0:26:11.653
<v Speaker 1>that that's quite a kind of crazy. You're in a

0:26:11.693 --> 0:26:15.413
<v Speaker 1>different country, you don't speak the language, there's people around you.

0:26:15.573 --> 0:26:18.293
<v Speaker 1>All of a sudden, there's a flurry of activity, and

0:26:18.333 --> 0:26:20.973
<v Speaker 1>then you wake up and there's a baby. Yeah.

0:26:21.133 --> 0:26:24.453
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, it was really crazy, and it's really interesting.

0:26:24.493 --> 0:26:27.653
<v Speaker 2>In Sweden, they have this tradition where once you and

0:26:27.693 --> 0:26:29.373
<v Speaker 2>they all talk about it, like as soon as you

0:26:29.373 --> 0:26:31.733
<v Speaker 2>get pregnant, they're like, oh my god, you get the sandwiches.

0:26:32.733 --> 0:26:34.532
<v Speaker 2>You have his baby, and they wheel you back to

0:26:34.573 --> 0:26:37.653
<v Speaker 2>your room and they have these like little sandwiches that

0:26:37.733 --> 0:26:40.173
<v Speaker 2>everyone gets and they put these little Swedish flags in

0:26:40.213 --> 0:26:44.372
<v Speaker 2>the sandwich and they give you like fake champagne, and

0:26:44.413 --> 0:26:46.493
<v Speaker 2>so you go and you have your Like it's just

0:26:46.573 --> 0:26:49.372
<v Speaker 2>it's this weird tradition. And so I was just like

0:26:49.693 --> 0:26:51.973
<v Speaker 2>I have his baby and now I'm having my fake

0:26:52.053 --> 0:26:55.453
<v Speaker 2>champagne and my sandwich with a Swedish flag and this

0:26:55.613 --> 0:26:56.092
<v Speaker 2>is lovely.

0:26:56.453 --> 0:26:58.013
<v Speaker 1>I mean the least they could do is give you

0:26:58.053 --> 0:27:00.093
<v Speaker 1>a all that.

0:27:00.373 --> 0:27:03.213
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know I needed it. What was interesting with

0:27:03.293 --> 0:27:05.933
<v Speaker 2>the recovery though, I do think it did take longer

0:27:06.133 --> 0:27:11.293
<v Speaker 2>because they definitely don't give you as hard painkillers as Australia.

0:27:11.333 --> 0:27:13.733
<v Speaker 2>It was really hard to get, Like I was like,

0:27:13.933 --> 0:27:16.773
<v Speaker 2>I need something stronger than paned all, like this is

0:27:17.653 --> 0:27:21.453
<v Speaker 2>really sore. In Australia, they will constant make sure you're

0:27:21.493 --> 0:27:25.693
<v Speaker 2>not in pain, especially after a Caesar. But I found

0:27:25.733 --> 0:27:28.373
<v Speaker 2>in Sweden I was literally like can I please have more?

0:27:28.373 --> 0:27:30.133
<v Speaker 2>Can I please have more? And it was it was

0:27:30.173 --> 0:27:32.693
<v Speaker 2>actually a real fight to get anything stronger than a

0:27:32.693 --> 0:27:35.213
<v Speaker 2>pan at all. So I don't know why that is,

0:27:35.613 --> 0:27:36.973
<v Speaker 2>but that was something.

0:27:36.653 --> 0:27:39.053
<v Speaker 1>Because as I understand it, if you have a Caesar

0:27:39.333 --> 0:27:42.493
<v Speaker 1>in Australia, they'll give you like an endome or something

0:27:42.533 --> 0:27:44.053
<v Speaker 1>for the first day or.

0:27:44.013 --> 0:27:46.852
<v Speaker 2>So or even longer. I think if you're like they

0:27:47.013 --> 0:27:49.413
<v Speaker 2>in Australia, they just make sure that you're just not

0:27:49.533 --> 0:27:52.413
<v Speaker 2>in pain at all. So I think in Australia you're

0:27:52.453 --> 0:27:55.773
<v Speaker 2>on a very much a tight schedule of like ending

0:27:56.373 --> 0:27:59.973
<v Speaker 2>panadol where possible, like every four hours, you're taking painkillers

0:28:00.013 --> 0:28:03.373
<v Speaker 2>so you're never in pain. In Sweden they didn't even

0:28:03.413 --> 0:28:06.613
<v Speaker 2>offer endome. That's my one piece of feedback for the

0:28:06.653 --> 0:28:10.973
<v Speaker 2>Swedish medical system. That recovery was really hard. What was

0:28:10.973 --> 0:28:15.693
<v Speaker 2>also really interesting about Sweden was they are really into

0:28:15.693 --> 0:28:18.973
<v Speaker 2>skin to skin, so they actually don't even give you

0:28:19.013 --> 0:28:21.893
<v Speaker 2>a cot in the room. Oh yeah, so you go

0:28:21.973 --> 0:28:24.052
<v Speaker 2>back to your room and there's nowhere to put the

0:28:24.053 --> 0:28:28.173
<v Speaker 2>baby down, and you don't stay in the hospital as long. Well,

0:28:28.253 --> 0:28:31.013
<v Speaker 2>you know, in Australia I stayed in hospital maybe five

0:28:31.133 --> 0:28:33.773
<v Speaker 2>nights with the caesar, but in Sweden they kind of

0:28:33.813 --> 0:28:37.133
<v Speaker 2>want you to go home as soon as you can. Yeah,

0:28:37.173 --> 0:28:39.333
<v Speaker 2>they don't have cots because it's all like the baby

0:28:39.333 --> 0:28:41.613
<v Speaker 2>needs to be on your chest basically the whole time.

0:28:42.093 --> 0:28:44.613
<v Speaker 2>So I found that's really strange because I was like, God,

0:28:44.653 --> 0:28:47.653
<v Speaker 2>I just put him down for one second, but there's

0:28:47.693 --> 0:28:51.093
<v Speaker 2>nowhere to put him down to encourage that like connection.

0:28:51.653 --> 0:28:53.573
<v Speaker 2>The other thing that was really interesting is that they

0:28:53.573 --> 0:28:57.893
<v Speaker 2>don't swaddle, so I had like taken my little swaddles

0:28:57.893 --> 0:29:00.573
<v Speaker 2>from Australia. I'd made all my friends like, send me

0:29:00.693 --> 0:29:05.373
<v Speaker 2>the materials that you like. I love the little Fraser swaddles,

0:29:05.573 --> 0:29:08.733
<v Speaker 2>Jersey ones and so I was like swaddling him and

0:29:08.733 --> 0:29:10.853
<v Speaker 2>they're like, what are you doing to your child? And

0:29:10.893 --> 0:29:12.813
<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh, the ways you wake up. This

0:29:12.973 --> 0:29:16.573
<v Speaker 2>is my plan. It's the more I reflex totally, and

0:29:16.613 --> 0:29:20.133
<v Speaker 2>they just did. They were like, oh, this Australian that

0:29:20.173 --> 0:29:22.813
<v Speaker 2>wants to put her baby down and swaddle it. There

0:29:22.853 --> 0:29:25.573
<v Speaker 2>was just a few cultural differences as well.

0:29:25.893 --> 0:29:29.413
<v Speaker 1>How old was Augie when you came back to Australia.

0:29:29.813 --> 0:29:32.613
<v Speaker 2>So he was one when we moved back, which is

0:29:32.653 --> 0:29:35.373
<v Speaker 2>ironic that he's a Swedish citizen what they all are,

0:29:35.493 --> 0:29:38.053
<v Speaker 2>but he was actually born in Sweden and he's going

0:29:38.093 --> 0:29:41.293
<v Speaker 2>to probably be the worst at Swedish well after me,

0:29:41.613 --> 0:29:42.053
<v Speaker 2>after me.

0:29:42.853 --> 0:29:46.373
<v Speaker 1>Final question the post care. Did you get like a

0:29:46.493 --> 0:29:50.253
<v Speaker 1>nurse coming in after you like you got home.

0:29:50.773 --> 0:29:54.533
<v Speaker 2>It's very similar to Australia. They come I think maybe

0:29:54.733 --> 0:29:57.933
<v Speaker 2>two weeks after you come home and just see how

0:29:57.933 --> 0:30:00.813
<v Speaker 2>you're going with the baby at home in your own environment.

0:30:01.573 --> 0:30:05.173
<v Speaker 2>Then at the six week mark you see your midwife

0:30:05.413 --> 0:30:09.853
<v Speaker 2>and then you continue with the nurse with the baby.

0:30:10.013 --> 0:30:13.253
<v Speaker 2>So if you have any questions and it was quite

0:30:13.333 --> 0:30:16.613
<v Speaker 2>regular checkups with the nurse and you know, she would

0:30:16.773 --> 0:30:20.333
<v Speaker 2>weigh the baby very very similar, very similar process to

0:30:20.333 --> 0:30:23.013
<v Speaker 2>a earlier But it was great because you kind of

0:30:23.053 --> 0:30:25.853
<v Speaker 2>had this one nurse that you were assigned to, and

0:30:25.933 --> 0:30:29.293
<v Speaker 2>so if we had any problems with Orgie's health or

0:30:29.733 --> 0:30:32.933
<v Speaker 2>there was a question we had, we would just call her.

0:30:33.493 --> 0:30:36.373
<v Speaker 2>So that was really really great. And then in terms

0:30:36.413 --> 0:30:40.493
<v Speaker 2>of me, it was the same midwife afterwards. I think

0:30:40.573 --> 0:30:44.733
<v Speaker 2>that care probably stopped after about maybe ten weeks, but

0:30:44.853 --> 0:30:46.933
<v Speaker 2>it was still good that there was one person you

0:30:46.973 --> 0:30:47.533
<v Speaker 2>could go to.

0:30:48.133 --> 0:30:51.133
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, thank you so much for sharing

0:30:51.133 --> 0:30:55.973
<v Speaker 1>your story and it's yeah, fascinating to hear that cultural difference,

0:30:56.053 --> 0:30:58.813
<v Speaker 1>but terrifying as well with that season.

0:31:00.733 --> 0:31:01.653
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much.

0:31:06.493 --> 0:31:09.453
<v Speaker 1>So what does a team do when a spinal tap

0:31:09.533 --> 0:31:12.813
<v Speaker 1>doesn't work? To get the answer, we asked our favorite

0:31:12.813 --> 0:31:15.853
<v Speaker 1>obstetrician and gynecologist, doctor Bronwin Devine.

0:31:16.173 --> 0:31:19.573
<v Speaker 3>Look, you can have an experience anitus who's done you know,

0:31:19.693 --> 0:31:23.013
<v Speaker 3>thousands of these, and just some women they've had their

0:31:23.053 --> 0:31:26.933
<v Speaker 3>spinal anesthetic can still feel pain. And people when they've

0:31:26.973 --> 0:31:29.973
<v Speaker 3>had a spinal or an epidural, those regional blocks are

0:31:29.973 --> 0:31:32.933
<v Speaker 3>designed to take away the sensation of pain and temperature

0:31:33.253 --> 0:31:36.373
<v Speaker 3>because those nerve fibers run together. The way that the

0:31:36.413 --> 0:31:38.893
<v Speaker 3>block works is to block the pain and temperature fibers,

0:31:38.893 --> 0:31:40.813
<v Speaker 3>which is why they always test with ice. They say,

0:31:40.933 --> 0:31:43.413
<v Speaker 3>this feel cold here. It's definitely cold up here on

0:31:43.453 --> 0:31:45.813
<v Speaker 3>your face, but down here on your tummy and below

0:31:45.973 --> 0:31:48.493
<v Speaker 3>where your legs are. No, it doesn't feel cold. Yep, no,

0:31:48.573 --> 0:31:50.453
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't feel cold. So that's why they're testing it

0:31:50.453 --> 0:31:54.253
<v Speaker 3>with temperature, because pain and temperature are affected the same

0:31:54.293 --> 0:31:58.133
<v Speaker 3>way by those regional blocks. But if someone can feel

0:31:58.173 --> 0:32:02.853
<v Speaker 3>pain during surgery, it's absolutely traumatic for that person. It

0:32:02.893 --> 0:32:07.173
<v Speaker 3>can result in terrible PTSD and you know, flashbacks and

0:32:07.213 --> 0:32:10.093
<v Speaker 3>things like that. It's just not okay. It's one of

0:32:10.133 --> 0:32:12.373
<v Speaker 3>those things that just can't happen, you know. You hear

0:32:12.373 --> 0:32:15.653
<v Speaker 3>these stories of people waking up under anesthesia when they're

0:32:15.653 --> 0:32:18.853
<v Speaker 3>having other operations and how traumatic that is. You know,

0:32:18.853 --> 0:32:22.973
<v Speaker 3>it's one of the absolute no, no, no, this cannot

0:32:22.973 --> 0:32:26.253
<v Speaker 3>happen when people are having surgery. They cannot have the

0:32:26.293 --> 0:32:29.013
<v Speaker 3>feeling of pain when they're having surgery performed on them.

0:32:29.533 --> 0:32:33.093
<v Speaker 3>So we try very hard to do our caesarean sections

0:32:33.213 --> 0:32:35.853
<v Speaker 3>under regional block because it is much much safer for

0:32:35.893 --> 0:32:40.693
<v Speaker 3>the mum doing a caesar under general anesthetic. A pregnant woman,

0:32:40.813 --> 0:32:44.533
<v Speaker 3>particularly a heavily pregnant woman, will have quite a lot

0:32:44.533 --> 0:32:48.573
<v Speaker 3>of airway compromise just by dint of being pregnant and

0:32:48.613 --> 0:32:51.333
<v Speaker 3>the extra fluid in her body, and you know the

0:32:51.373 --> 0:32:52.973
<v Speaker 3>fact that she's got a lot of pressure in her

0:32:53.013 --> 0:32:56.093
<v Speaker 3>abdomen and lots of things like that. So putting an

0:32:56.613 --> 0:32:58.533
<v Speaker 3>endotra keel to you, which is what you have to

0:32:58.533 --> 0:33:01.933
<v Speaker 3>have when you have a general anesthetic into someone when

0:33:01.933 --> 0:33:04.893
<v Speaker 3>they have those extra complications of being pregnant, can be

0:33:04.973 --> 0:33:08.973
<v Speaker 3>quite risky for the pregnant woman, and so it's become

0:33:09.093 --> 0:33:12.213
<v Speaker 3>very much the norm to have caesarean sections performed under

0:33:12.253 --> 0:33:16.333
<v Speaker 3>regional block, and an epidural takes quite a long time

0:33:16.373 --> 0:33:18.533
<v Speaker 3>to go in. So that's why when people are having

0:33:18.573 --> 0:33:20.933
<v Speaker 3>caesars that are either done electively or they've got to

0:33:20.973 --> 0:33:23.613
<v Speaker 3>be done as an emergency and there is no epidural present,

0:33:23.933 --> 0:33:26.053
<v Speaker 3>an esos will try and put a spinal in because

0:33:26.053 --> 0:33:28.133
<v Speaker 3>it can work very quickly and you can get the

0:33:28.173 --> 0:33:30.453
<v Speaker 3>spinal in quickly. It's a lot safer for the mum.

0:33:31.333 --> 0:33:34.813
<v Speaker 3>But if a spinal is not effective, then we really

0:33:34.893 --> 0:33:38.373
<v Speaker 3>have to abandon it and go to a general anesthetic.

0:33:38.453 --> 0:33:40.773
<v Speaker 3>And when that's the case, you know, it's quite a

0:33:40.813 --> 0:33:43.533
<v Speaker 3>high risk situation. The anthotist is always going to be

0:33:43.573 --> 0:33:46.133
<v Speaker 3>quite tense about it. They need to get the partner

0:33:46.133 --> 0:33:48.933
<v Speaker 3>out of the room because it's absolutely horrible seeing your

0:33:49.013 --> 0:33:52.173
<v Speaker 3>loved one sort of become paralyzed and go off to

0:33:52.253 --> 0:33:55.773
<v Speaker 3>sleep and be unresponsive. So they usually rush the partner

0:33:55.813 --> 0:33:57.533
<v Speaker 3>out of the room and that's quite traumatic for them

0:33:57.573 --> 0:33:59.693
<v Speaker 3>because they had every intention they were going to be

0:33:59.733 --> 0:34:02.573
<v Speaker 3>there to see their baby being born. And then you know,

0:34:02.813 --> 0:34:05.453
<v Speaker 3>because you know the surgery is already started, the anesis

0:34:05.493 --> 0:34:07.333
<v Speaker 3>is under a lot of pressure to get that person

0:34:07.453 --> 0:34:09.373
<v Speaker 3>to sleep very very quickly, but they have to be

0:34:09.453 --> 0:34:12.732
<v Speaker 3>very careful. They need to do some preoxygenation and make

0:34:12.772 --> 0:34:15.933
<v Speaker 3>sure that you know, they've got absolutely perfect access to

0:34:15.973 --> 0:34:18.853
<v Speaker 3>the airway and things like that. So it's it really

0:34:18.973 --> 0:34:21.732
<v Speaker 3>is quite a high stress, tense situation.

0:34:22.333 --> 0:34:26.292
<v Speaker 1>And what about navigating different cultural requests in your practice.

0:34:26.533 --> 0:34:29.613
<v Speaker 3>Australia's a very multicultural society, so we care for lots

0:34:29.652 --> 0:34:32.453
<v Speaker 3>and lots of people from many different cultures and often

0:34:32.453 --> 0:34:36.452
<v Speaker 3>there are specific requests that people have because they're used

0:34:36.493 --> 0:34:40.333
<v Speaker 3>to a different procedure or a different process. I've certainly

0:34:40.372 --> 0:34:43.452
<v Speaker 3>looked after Swedish women in pregnancy, and I have a

0:34:43.493 --> 0:34:45.613
<v Speaker 3>German couple who come to see me at the moment,

0:34:45.652 --> 0:34:48.212
<v Speaker 3>and they've had their first child in Germany, and so

0:34:48.493 --> 0:34:51.613
<v Speaker 3>they'll often come and say to me when we're in Germany,

0:34:51.772 --> 0:34:54.492
<v Speaker 3>they did this test. Do you offer that test? And

0:34:54.973 --> 0:34:57.492
<v Speaker 3>you know when do I do this particular test, and

0:34:57.692 --> 0:35:00.172
<v Speaker 3>sometimes bring the anti natal card from Germany and do

0:35:00.252 --> 0:35:02.772
<v Speaker 3>a comparison to make sure that you know the things

0:35:02.772 --> 0:35:05.452
<v Speaker 3>that they're used to are being offered here. I think

0:35:05.453 --> 0:35:08.932
<v Speaker 3>in the Nordic countries, where the public health system is

0:35:09.093 --> 0:35:12.372
<v Speaker 3>so well supported, it doesn't really make a lot of

0:35:12.413 --> 0:35:14.573
<v Speaker 3>sense to do anything but go through the public system.

0:35:14.652 --> 0:35:17.252
<v Speaker 3>But I guess also because a lot of healthcare is

0:35:17.252 --> 0:35:20.133
<v Speaker 3>state funded, you know, they may not offer quite as

0:35:20.172 --> 0:35:22.892
<v Speaker 3>many of them very expensive tests that we sort of

0:35:22.892 --> 0:35:27.692
<v Speaker 3>take for granted here, like the NIPT. Certainly you do find,

0:35:27.933 --> 0:35:30.932
<v Speaker 3>you know, say people come from a culture that's a

0:35:30.973 --> 0:35:33.892
<v Speaker 3>resource for country, or a non Western culture where things

0:35:33.933 --> 0:35:37.252
<v Speaker 3>are very very different. There can be specific requests of

0:35:37.332 --> 0:35:41.652
<v Speaker 3>things that you haven't really encountered before, and so we

0:35:41.812 --> 0:35:45.453
<v Speaker 3>try as absolutely hard as we can to help people

0:35:46.212 --> 0:35:48.772
<v Speaker 3>achieve the birth that they want and do that in

0:35:48.772 --> 0:35:51.212
<v Speaker 3>the most culturally sensitive way. So if we need to

0:35:52.172 --> 0:35:56.692
<v Speaker 3>make policy adjustments and procedure adjustments within the realms of safety,

0:35:56.732 --> 0:35:57.212
<v Speaker 3>we'll do that.

0:36:00.732 --> 0:36:03.373
<v Speaker 1>Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Kasanu lukit

0:36:03.533 --> 0:36:07.013
<v Speaker 1>with expert input from doctor Bronwin Divine and while we

0:36:07.093 --> 0:36:09.292
<v Speaker 1>have you here, we're on the hunt to share powerful

0:36:09.453 --> 0:36:14.613
<v Speaker 1>underrepresented stories from people of all cultures, backgrounds, and abilities,

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<v Speaker 1>so please get in touch. This episode was produced by

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<v Speaker 1>Tina Mattalov and myself kis Anu luk At, with audio

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<v Speaker 1>production by Leah Porges.