Speaker 1: We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land we're recording
Speaker 1: on today. I remember this day, this conversation on the phone.
Speaker 1: It was a boy that I had booked up with
Speaker 1: through all high school, were really good mates, and he
Speaker 1: said these ten words to me. He said, you would
Speaker 1: be so much hotter if you started running, And with
Speaker 1: that I ran.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome back to Eat, Sleep, Shit, Repeat, your
Speaker 2: unhinged podcast about the madness that is motherhood and everything
Speaker 2: in between.
Speaker 1: I'm Kiri Cells and just a heads up that we
Speaker 1: are discussing body image, toxic diet culture, and disordered eating today,
Speaker 1: so this episode might not be for everyone.
Speaker 2: I didn't say my name to know, did you. I
Speaker 2: don't even know. I think I'm Kelly McCarron. Anyway, I'm
Speaker 2: pretty sure most of our shitters will know that. But
Speaker 2: I'm just sitting here going I've got no idea if
Speaker 2: I said my name before we start. We do have
Speaker 2: a request, go on and please go and review us
Speaker 2: on both Apple and Spotify. You can do it while
Speaker 2: you're listening to us. It takes less than a minute.
Speaker 2: It's a free and very easy way for you to
Speaker 2: support the podcast. Now to kick the episode off keys
Speaker 2: up for peaking pitch.
Speaker 1: I am.
Speaker 2: Let's hope it's a less shit.
Speaker 1: Oh look, it's less physically.
Speaker 2: You're never going to get old.
Speaker 1: It's never going to get old. Oh, but it is
Speaker 1: a bit sad. So just prefacing it with I'm just
Speaker 1: going to talk about some grief for my pit and
Speaker 1: it is the day as well, so it's a little
Speaker 1: bit of a double barrel sadness. But the past week
Speaker 1: has been pretty emotional. So today is my mother in
Speaker 1: law's birthday, so it's been quite a difficult week just
Speaker 1: in the lead up to it. For context, if you're
Speaker 1: a new listener, we lost my mother in law really
Speaker 1: suddenly at the beginning of the year, and the green
Speaker 1: has been incredibly hard to navigate. Also grieving while pregnant,
Speaker 1: and it's difficult because you know that these firsts are
Speaker 1: going to come up, but you don't necessarily realize how
Speaker 1: victim you're.
Speaker 2: Going to be and the impact that that first will have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know it's coming and you can just
Speaker 1: feel your yourself kind of like your heart breaking all
Speaker 1: over again.
Speaker 2: And because it is the first year that you won't
Speaker 2: be calling her and getting rude of seeing and yeah,
Speaker 2: all of that stuff and that's so heavy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's almost like the lead up
Speaker 1: is all the makeup I've just put on is coming.
Speaker 2: Off streaming down your face the lead.
Speaker 1: Up to it. I wouldn't say it's worse, but you
Speaker 1: just you have to live your life, right, So you're
Speaker 1: living while your body is processing or bracing for like
Speaker 1: this big emotional sadness and kind of just questioning everything
Speaker 1: all over again and just really missing that person a lot.
Speaker 2: So the problem with grief and time is that all
Speaker 2: of these firsts are going to hit you so hard.
Speaker 2: Yet I think people are empathetic, but no one can
Speaker 2: really understand to what you're going through. And I mean
Speaker 2: it's a bit different for you, but for anyone in
Speaker 2: a normal job, people at work would be like, you've
Speaker 2: had your time off for grief. What do you you know?
Speaker 2: You've had your grieving period. Yeah, And it's definitely trying
Speaker 2: to navigate all of these new parts of grief that
Speaker 2: will continue to find you while yeah, living your life
Speaker 2: and working and mothering and everything in between.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the mothering particularly has been difficult. Like I
Speaker 1: can't tell you the number of times in the last week,
Speaker 1: like and rue isn't inherently like a mean hid but
Speaker 1: she or just say like I don't like that or something.
Speaker 2: And they can be jerked. We can acknowledge that they
Speaker 2: can be real jerks.
Speaker 1: And it's just broken me. Like I've just been really
Speaker 1: emotionally sensitive and she's seen me cry like three times
Speaker 1: this week, and I'm just like, fuck, is this like
Speaker 1: fucking her up right now?
Speaker 2: Like, oh, we've been It's important that she sees that
Speaker 2: you're a person with varied emotions just like she is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, let me say something all the time,
Speaker 2: do not go.
Speaker 1: That makes me feel better. You know where I got
Speaker 1: this from? Though Mummy's flipping house. She's like, I try
Speaker 1: not to cry in front of my kids, And I
Speaker 1: was like, fuck, is that bad? Oh my god, I've
Speaker 1: just not realized, like this wasn't on my radar. I
Speaker 1: don't think then.
Speaker 2: I'm not a psychologist and I haven't spoken to one
Speaker 2: about this, but I feel like kids need to be
Speaker 2: aware that we have different emotions. It's about things. I mean, listen,
Speaker 2: you don't want your kids to grow up and go,
Speaker 2: oh my mom just cried all the time. Yeah, fucking
Speaker 2: but like just like you're happy, you also get angry,
Speaker 2: and you also get sad, and you also get tired,
Speaker 2: and you get hungry, and you get everything that they get. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just totally like a little bit less unhingedly hopefully no exactly.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that was my pit this week, just of
Speaker 1: the lead up to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a big How are you and Charlie planning
Speaker 2: on celebrating her tonight?
Speaker 1: Oh goodness, I'm probably gonna start crying again.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Oh my gosh, what are friends in podcasts for.
Speaker 1: We're actually going out to dinner. We got given about
Speaker 1: in the best restaurant, so we're going out to celebrate her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so nice.
Speaker 2: So we are excited for that, and she will be there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we feel her for sure, and Rue is like
Speaker 1: the spinning image of her, so she is.
Speaker 2: It's wild.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to compose myself's.
Speaker 2: So rough, but I'm so sorry for you and Charlie, Like,
Speaker 2: that's just it's just relentless, isn't it Just one thing
Speaker 2: after the other you think, oh, you know, it's getting
Speaker 2: a little bit better.
Speaker 1: Well, her birthday, yeah exactly, and then even just like
Speaker 1: the leader to the new baby, I think will be
Speaker 1: quite hard as well. Yes, that's right, we will get
Speaker 1: through it with some tears.
Speaker 2: It's healthy to get things out instead of internalizing them.
Speaker 1: I actually ordered some flowers yesterday for my father in
Speaker 1: law and my.
Speaker 2: Sister in law, and that's so nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was fucking comical. I called up the
Speaker 1: florist and was hysterically clearing on the phone to her,
Speaker 1: and I said to her, I'm gonna have to text
Speaker 1: best to chew the card because I don't think I
Speaker 1: can actually say it out loud, like.
Speaker 2: It's all of these things online. Key.
Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure that it got there on time,
Speaker 1: like I don't want it to be late, and like
Speaker 1: it's you know, they live in the Northern Rivers and
Speaker 1: typically things are, yeah, things are a bit slower, so
Speaker 1: I just wanted to like make sure everything was good
Speaker 1: but far out, like you just don't realize something's.
Speaker 2: Gonna affect you.
Speaker 1: And I was just like, this is.
Speaker 2: Not like anyway, to be fair, they would probably be
Speaker 2: used to it, I hope.
Speaker 1: So she was lovely too.
Speaker 2: Don't think that it would have been the first time
Speaker 2: someone's had a cry on the phone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. That's a very good point. Thank you. Okay,
Speaker 1: so peak, which is kind of like pit rising because
Speaker 1: I'm gonna explain to you. So when we were overseas,
Speaker 1: I got a message from this daycare that I've had
Speaker 1: rus list on forever.
Speaker 2: Says outside playtime.
Speaker 1: So much outside playtime, girl, It is like my dream
Speaker 1: daycare and not getting sick all the time. Learning shit. Anyway,
Speaker 1: they messaged me saying, hey, we've got spots for five
Speaker 1: like let me know if you're still interested, and I
Speaker 1: was like yes, and so they're like, oh, welcome, rue
Speaker 1: can start in January, and I was like fuck yeah.
Speaker 1: Like everyone where I live talks about like this daycare
Speaker 1: being so amazing, so like we're all ready to move
Speaker 1: through in the new year and everything's going great. Then
Speaker 1: my girlfriend messages me and her son goes to this
Speaker 1: other amazing daycare and was like in it, it had
Speaker 1: a message about they've got spots next year for twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five. So for some reason, most of the spots
Speaker 1: typically will go to siblings, so there's very limited spots, right.
Speaker 1: But for some reason, I think some people aren't having
Speaker 1: a second, some people are waiting a little bit longer
Speaker 1: to have a second. So there's like all of the
Speaker 1: space pretty much a whole class bar three spots. And
Speaker 1: so I messaged this chick on Monday and went for
Speaker 1: a tool yesterday and she offered it me.
Speaker 2: So now I have.
Speaker 1: Two offers all my two best daycares in my area,
Speaker 1: which obviously, because I'm me, is now turning into a
Speaker 1: fucking catastrophe because.
Speaker 2: I don't know what one to choose exactly. Pretty easy decision.
Speaker 2: Wasn't only one of them for three days?
Speaker 1: No, both of them have four?
Speaker 2: Oh wow, So okay, see you really are struggling. You've got.
Speaker 1: To help. One is like three minutes further than the other.
Speaker 1: They're both away from us, like we have to drive,
Speaker 1: so it's much of a muchness. You know, one could
Speaker 1: be closer if we do end up buying like this year,
Speaker 1: one could be closer to that, But they're three minutes apart,
Speaker 1: so it's not enough to like factor in. But I
Speaker 1: immediately called Ru's best friend's mum, Beck, who I mentioned
Speaker 1: from time time on.
Speaker 2: The pod friend of the pod brother's.
Speaker 1: Group's friend of the pod. Beck. We've been trying to
Speaker 1: get them into the same daycare basically, and I called
Speaker 1: her and I was like, there's spots at this place
Speaker 1: like call up. So she emailed and she's doing a
Speaker 1: tour tomorrow. So and she can't get into the other
Speaker 1: day care because we already tried that and there weren't
Speaker 1: any spots. So if she you can get Goldie into
Speaker 1: this staycare, then I think that will be the one
Speaker 1: because then they can kind of go up together.
Speaker 2: And yes, and like, oh how nice to have your
Speaker 2: little bestie.
Speaker 1: There exactly, And then it would just be easier, like
Speaker 1: we can carpl and like alternate pickups and you know,
Speaker 1: all things that'll be actually really helpful as well. But
Speaker 1: the good thing is there's not really a bad choice
Speaker 1: because both of these daycares have like really great raving
Speaker 1: reviews from parents and stuff. So yeah, that's my peaks.
Speaker 1: Finally I've got a little bit of luck with the daycare.
Speaker 2: You've got a little no more flood No more floods. Yeah,
Speaker 2: high temperatures and not giving a child's water, getting bitten
Speaker 2: all the time, well that was just one more stuck
Speaker 2: inside like jail exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: So it's a good problem to have overall. But I'll
Speaker 1: let you know how it go.
Speaker 2: If you grew up in the nineties and early noughties,
Speaker 2: and you don't have long standing body image issues. Congratulations,
Speaker 2: you're a very rare breed.
Speaker 1: Yes you are r kel elephant in the room. You don't.
Speaker 2: Yes, but I did. I just managed to get myself
Speaker 2: out of it.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, that middle aged white man energy continues, we
Speaker 1: see as always for millennials, our formative years were spent
Speaker 1: in the cultural storm that was the pre.
Speaker 2: Internet space and the newly pressure filled world of social media.
Speaker 2: It was the perfect storm of body shaming forces like
Speaker 2: magazine covers with loose five kilos fast splashed next to
Speaker 2: the emaciated bodies of the stars of our favorite TV shows,
Speaker 2: weight loss Shakes, the heroin cheek fashion era that involved
Speaker 2: things like low rise genes with razor sharp hip bones
Speaker 2: protruding like an essential accessory, access to thin spot tumbler sites,
Speaker 2: and pro ano rhetoric or TV series with rapidly shrinking stars.
Speaker 2: It was uniquely awful. It was a fat phobic time
Speaker 2: in cultural history that's left many of us with seriously
Speaker 2: screwed up body image issues. Can relate, although being thin
Speaker 2: isn't a new concept for us, Like our mothers and
Speaker 2: grandmothers grew up using cigarettes to curb their appetites. The
Speaker 2: harmful messaging we absorbed from every single direction wasn't the
Speaker 2: same at thin worshipping propaganda that they had, so for us,
Speaker 2: aesthetics was just one part of the equation. We weren't
Speaker 2: taught that being thin was just the standard of beauty,
Speaker 2: but it was the physical manifestation of discipline, dedication, and effort.
Speaker 2: We were told from every single angle. And as we know,
Speaker 2: the older we've got, the more different media messages we've
Speaker 2: received every single day that weight was somehow correlated with
Speaker 2: morality and value, and that is what has screwed us
Speaker 2: up in a way that is entirely distinct from our
Speaker 2: prior generations. As an example of this, if someone admits
Speaker 2: that they don't exercise if they're thin, it can be
Speaker 2: pummed off with like an eye roller, but if they're
Speaker 2: in a larger body, it is met with horror and revulsion.
Speaker 2: Nothing is more shameful than being lazy or gluttonous, or
Speaker 2: the perception of such. And people need to know that
Speaker 2: someone has discipline to increase their moral value, and discipline
Speaker 2: is synonymous within this. When I was in high school, I,
Speaker 2: like many teenagers, was obsessed with the notion of celebrity.
Speaker 2: I cried when I met Tamin Cursock and beck Hewitt
Speaker 2: Nieka right at the nabiak Thunner Up. I know after them,
Speaker 2: I actually cried. And I wasn't even allowed to watch
Speaker 2: Home and Away. So it wasn't like I was huge
Speaker 2: fans of their work. It was just that I was
Speaker 2: so in awe and overwhelmed with the idea of celebrity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was wondering how you even knew of them
Speaker 1: because you were locked up in your room reading the
Speaker 1: whole time.
Speaker 2: I still I was very into celebrity. Of course, my
Speaker 2: day to Friday, I would wake up early and run
Speaker 2: for one to two hours. Then I would come home
Speaker 2: and shake the toaster over a plate or put some
Speaker 2: wheat bis crumbs and a bit of milk bowl so
Speaker 2: I could convince my parents. I'd eat and breakfast. My
Speaker 2: dad would make me vitiweats or rivatas, those yummy things
Speaker 2: with vegimite for lunch because I would eat them. And
Speaker 2: I would also pack of tuna because I hate tuna,
Speaker 2: and I would then just sit and pick at it.
Speaker 2: Often I would be so dizzy on the bus on
Speaker 2: the way home that I would get home and go
Speaker 2: for another jog. Before being so starving, I would generally
Speaker 2: eat half a bag of biscuits and then smash my dinner.
Speaker 2: Thank goodness, because it's the only reason that I never
Speaker 2: got too thin. Yeah, yeah, I'm tall and broad, and
Speaker 2: I just wanted to be really small like the celebrities.
Speaker 2: I grew up in an era when I was told
Speaker 2: that size ten was plus sized and if you wanted
Speaker 2: to be a star, you had to be a size zero, which,
Speaker 2: to be honest, I still don't understand, like that just
Speaker 2: seems impossibly small. And the crazy thing is is that
Speaker 2: when we see videos resurface so Tyra Banks calling a
Speaker 2: model too big, we look at you.
Speaker 1: We don't see a model. And as much as I
Speaker 1: hate and preach about models not having to be stick skinny,
Speaker 1: we have to face it that we are in the
Speaker 1: fashion industry. You don't fit the clothes, you.
Speaker 2: Don't work, Or we see magazine covers where a very
Speaker 2: small Jessica Simpson is said to have packed on the pounds.
Speaker 2: The horrifying thing is that I never actually saw these
Speaker 2: things and thought there was anything wrong with it. Like
Speaker 2: I was never shocked or confused or saw that and
Speaker 2: thought are they joking like that was just so normal
Speaker 2: to me. So, Keith, tell me about your experience and
Speaker 2: what you think about all this.
Speaker 1: Can I just say, excellent points. I feel like you
Speaker 1: were kind of narrating my adolescence and probably a good
Speaker 1: chunk of my adult life, which pains me to even admit,
Speaker 1: because I just hate that I've wasted so much time
Speaker 1: thinking about this and being consumed with this. But for me,
Speaker 1: when I'm talking about the details of my experience, and
Speaker 1: specifically my experience like my eating disorder, I'm really careful
Speaker 1: about what I do and don't say about the details
Speaker 1: of how I achieved that or what I did that
Speaker 1: was bad, because I feel like people who are struggling
Speaker 1: go on to use those things to further this sickness.
Speaker 1: They can also be big triggers, and I know this
Speaker 1: because I have been that person in the past. But
Speaker 1: I can kind of give you a little bit of
Speaker 1: like an overview.
Speaker 2: I never even considered that from an adult perspective, Like
Speaker 2: I just never thought like mentioning different things that I
Speaker 2: did could be triggering, even though like as a teenager,
Speaker 2: of course I would read different things that people did
Speaker 2: and I thought, oh, that's a great idea. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I guess I just assumed that because we're all adults
Speaker 2: now that it wouldn't have the same impact.
Speaker 1: But I tell you what, even to this day, if
Speaker 1: I see a magazine that has like diet tips, I'll
Speaker 1: read it. I know to be critical about it, but
Speaker 1: like you know, so I'm just careful because I mean,
Speaker 1: I did everything. But I think finding out that I
Speaker 1: was having a daughter who now know is rude because
Speaker 1: she has been born, I thought a lot about my
Speaker 1: relationship with my body image, and I really tried to
Speaker 1: get the root of it. So I've done a lot
Speaker 1: of thinking about kind of how this all came about,
Speaker 1: because it's really important for me to try to not
Speaker 1: let her waist one minute of her life thinking about
Speaker 1: her weight, because I feel like I've spent so long
Speaker 1: worrying about my weight that I could I've done it
Speaker 1: basically two lifetimes over. But from a really young age,
Speaker 1: dieting and talk of dieting was really constant. My birth
Speaker 1: mum especially was obsessed with dieting and was always trying
Speaker 1: some latest fad that promised you'd shed the kegs, and
Speaker 1: that kind of language just was right alongside new words
Speaker 1: I was learning, so it was very much. I consumed
Speaker 1: it at such a young age, and I was a
Speaker 1: bit of a chubby kid. I was very aware that
Speaker 1: my body wasn't I want to.
Speaker 2: See so cute too?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I was just all cheeks. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm still like a cheeks now, but I was so cute.
Speaker 1: But I remember, actually, you still have really good cheeks.
Speaker 1: I know that's succulent me Philip for more. But I
Speaker 1: do remember feeling really embarrassed and all of shame whenever
Speaker 1: I had to get changed, you know, like just out
Speaker 1: with like an aunts or uncle with the other cousins
Speaker 1: and having to get changed. I like really felt that shame.
Speaker 1: I didn't understand necessarily why, but I remember feeling it
Speaker 1: around my body and wanting to cover up. But fast
Speaker 1: forward to year eight, I had this like massive growth
Speaker 1: spurt and I dropped a bunch of weight and I
Speaker 1: didn't really feel that different. But the thing that stood
Speaker 1: out to me the most at that time and like
Speaker 1: reinforced that I should feel like proud, was how people
Speaker 1: treated me. And this is so lame, but this is
Speaker 1: literally what happened. So in the space of a year,
Speaker 1: I had moved into a different group at high school,
Speaker 1: and then I started dating the hot guy of the grade,
Speaker 1: so like completely like something out of a teen movie.
Speaker 1: And that's so lame and I'm cringing, But that reward
Speaker 1: for my body looking differently was like so obvious at
Speaker 1: that time, and I felt like that really loud laid
Speaker 1: the foundation in my psyche of like the value that's
Speaker 1: society puts on people with smaller bodies, all this idea
Speaker 1: of like thin or skinny privilege, which I'll get to
Speaker 1: in a second, but I would say that the trigger
Speaker 1: of my eating disorder. And that's fucked because I remember
Speaker 1: this day, this conversation on the phone. It was a
Speaker 1: boy that I had like hooked up with through all
Speaker 1: high school, are really good mates, and he said these
Speaker 1: ten words to me. He said, you would be so
Speaker 1: much hotter if you started running. And with that I ran.
Speaker 1: I ran every day, I ran very far, and I
Speaker 1: became completely obsessed. And then you know, around the same time,
Speaker 1: the invention of the Internet was just kind of like
Speaker 1: where I got my PhD in eating disorders, Like if
Speaker 1: you put lists together of the things like I have
Speaker 1: done it. But the really sad thing about that is
Speaker 1: that all of those tricks that I practiced to be
Speaker 1: thin for so many years. I now live with the
Speaker 1: repercussions of and I have the side effects of today.
Speaker 1: So I have a bunch of food intolerances. I now
Speaker 1: have ibs. I have a really incredibly lazy boo, and
Speaker 1: those are my daily reminders of how poorly I treated
Speaker 1: my body. And it is heartbreaking, like heartbreaking that these
Speaker 1: are all things that are self inflicted. But I think
Speaker 1: a lot about the turning point, because even though I'm
Speaker 1: not cured, I don't think I ever will be.
Speaker 2: You've gotten a lot better, like even when we met,
Speaker 2: much better that period between you and your late twenties
Speaker 2: to now, you've changed so much.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much because I try to remember that,
Speaker 1: because I do go through bad periods of course still,
Speaker 1: but they're few and far are between. Is that the same?
Speaker 1: I don't even know, you know, they're not as frequent,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I often think to myself, like, wow,
Speaker 1: you've come so far. And it was very much when
Speaker 1: I started working on a daily entertainment podcast with a
Speaker 1: dear friend of mine who's just the most incredible, intelligent person,
Speaker 1: amazing journalist Laura Brodnick We worked on this podcast together
Speaker 1: for four years, and it was my job basically every
Speaker 1: day to dissect celebrity culture and entertainment, and I had
Speaker 1: to critically examine things that were happening at a time
Speaker 1: when collectively we were all re examining a lot of things,
Speaker 1: but specifically diet culture or toxic dyt culture and how
Speaker 1: Hollywood largely perpetuated these ideals. And that's when, for the
Speaker 1: first time, I came across the term that I mentioned
Speaker 1: a little bit before, which is thin or skinny privilege
Speaker 1: and also pretty privilege. So when I discovered the idea
Speaker 1: of thin privilege, it fucked me up, but in a
Speaker 1: good way because suddenly I was like, Wow, I realized
Speaker 1: that I was perpetuating the stigma around wait as well
Speaker 1: as fat phobia by kind of buying into this thin privilege.
Speaker 1: And once I understood that, and I also have to
Speaker 1: shout up Lucy Neville because I know that she's going
Speaker 1: to be listening like she's from jen Z. Once I
Speaker 1: became friends with her specifically as well, I was finally
Speaker 1: able to improve my body image because I literally had
Speaker 1: this deeper understanding of this phenomenon that had kind of
Speaker 1: like taken hold of me. There's something that was like
Speaker 1: so tied to our culture and our value and our worth.
Speaker 1: And then I had someone younger than me going like,
Speaker 1: why do you say that stuff to yourself? Like that's
Speaker 1: so crazy, Like can you hear what you're saying to yourself?
Speaker 1: And then Lucy would always say, well, I'm bigger than you,
Speaker 1: so am I fat? And I'd be like, oh, you're not,
Speaker 1: Like it used to be not a youth thing.
Speaker 2: I used to say that to people all the time too.
Speaker 2: I'd be like, or if someone would be like, oh,
Speaker 2: so and so's a bit big, I'm like, I'm bigger
Speaker 2: than that person, and you're saying it in a negative way,
Speaker 2: so what do you say about me? And I also
Speaker 2: what you're discussing with Lucy, it makes me think of
Speaker 2: you know, whenever a friend is being really rude to themselves,
Speaker 2: it kisses me off because I'm like, don't fucking say
Speaker 2: that about yourself. If you wouldn't say it about your
Speaker 2: friend or someone you love, why are you saying it
Speaker 2: about yourself? One hundred percent like treat yourself kindly. Of
Speaker 2: course we all have bad days, but don't treat yourself
Speaker 2: like shit. Don't treat yourself like someone you really dislike.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I wanted to quickly sorry, and I've
Speaker 1: just been gasbagging for so long, but I wanted to
Speaker 1: quickly explain thin privilege using the words of someone way
Speaker 1: smarter than I am. And I found this article that
Speaker 1: was written in twenty nineteen, and this is I think
Speaker 1: that the term was coined by a chick on Twitter
Speaker 1: who is tweeting about thin privilege. And it was as
Speaker 1: we were kind of like understanding like the privilege of wealth,
Speaker 1: the privilege of race, all of that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: and then thin privileges ideal came up. So this is
Speaker 1: from a Sydney Morning Herald article thin privilege is real
Speaker 1: and it's time we fest up. It was written by
Speaker 1: Elana Seltzer. Hopefully they got her last name correct, so
Speaker 1: it reads the thin and thin privilege is not about
Speaker 1: being supermodel skinny, but being at a weight that means
Speaker 1: that you're not subjected to judgment and harassment from strangers.
Speaker 1: It means that you can go into almost any clothes
Speaker 1: shop and find something that will fit. You can eat
Speaker 1: a hamburger in public without people clearly judging your decision.
Speaker 1: You can wear something figure hugging without people's sneaks at you,
Speaker 1: and like, I just added the sin exactly what you
Speaker 1: said before kel is say that you don't work out,
Speaker 1: and it's okay. You know. The article goes on to say,
Speaker 1: when I speak about thin privilege, I'm talking about the
Speaker 1: advantages that thin people in Western culture experience, such as
Speaker 1: being assumed healthy and having a wide array of clothes available,
Speaker 1: as well as a body that aligns with dominant ideas
Speaker 1: of what is attractive.
Speaker 2: I'm so clever and so clever because it's so true
Speaker 2: when people comment, like on someone's body on Instagram, going unhealthy,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, are you that person's doctor?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: How can you assume that? Of course there is some face?
Speaker 2: But skinny does not mean healthy. I wrote a list
Speaker 2: of pop culture references I was having a little think
Speaker 2: about God memory Lane, and I want to read them
Speaker 2: to you, and I think that, like every single one
Speaker 2: of them, you'll probably go on my own. The discourse
Speaker 2: around Britney' stomach and her stomach in general, remember everyone
Speaker 2: was like a thousand crunches a day. Who didn't try
Speaker 2: to do a thousand crunches a day? That's ridiculous yep,
Speaker 2: the way that the Sweet Valley Twins size was always mentioned,
Speaker 2: and it was mentioned everywhere, and on that note hand
Speaker 2: spanned waste, which that was the description for every leading
Speaker 2: lady in books. Celery is calorie negative food. Kate Moss,
Speaker 2: nothing tastes as good as skinny feels. The chubby girl
Speaker 2: in Love actually the god, I know what.
Speaker 1: You know, Natalie who works there, the chubby girl who
Speaker 1: would we call her chubby?
Speaker 2: I think there's a pretty sizable ass there, yes, sir,
Speaker 2: huge thighs, the Kate Winslet jokes around Titanic Bridget Jones
Speaker 2: being called fat and like being the larger lady in
Speaker 2: the bunny outfit. The bunny outfit stands out to me everywhere.
Speaker 1: It looked like a common prostitute until that was actually
Speaker 1: the point.
Speaker 2: She has one hell of a body, I know, I know,
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that she was considered big, like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's actually rude, Like she looked so fucking banging
Speaker 1: in that bunny costume.
Speaker 2: Alia McBeal Friends Dawson's Creek, Buffy, the oc where stars
Speaker 2: just shrunk before our very eyes.
Speaker 1: Wait, Ali mcbeill was so bad, like Porscha to ROSSI
Speaker 1: I remember she came out years later and talked about
Speaker 1: her eating disorders, and they all had them, yea, but
Speaker 1: she was the only one really to ever address it,
Speaker 1: And I just thought, imagine being an actress on that set.
Speaker 1: It would have been terrible.
Speaker 2: The Rachel Zoe aesthetic, I know, I know.
Speaker 1: And then New Caffany every hour that you can and
Speaker 1: drink lots of water.
Speaker 2: And Paris Hilton in low rise jeans. Those photos are
Speaker 2: just like imprinted on my mind.
Speaker 1: The way I worshiped Rachel Zoe and all of those same.
Speaker 1: I mean, I still do think that she's I love
Speaker 1: her style. I don't love her aesthetic, but I love
Speaker 1: her style. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. When I remind you all that, does it make
Speaker 2: you think that maybe things have gotten better? Because sometimes
Speaker 2: I worry that it hasn't, especially when I think about
Speaker 2: things like our current Zimbic obsession, or the AI trickery
Speaker 2: with face tune, or just like the exact same problems
Speaker 2: but masquerading as wellness.
Speaker 1: Oh the wellness thing. Yeah, for sure, Well on a zenpic,
Speaker 1: I do think it was like quite a step backwards.
Speaker 1: But I think only really for certain generations, like mainly
Speaker 1: the generations that spent their whole lives trying to be
Speaker 1: a size zero when their body type was not that,
Speaker 1: but the fact that this was like now achievable. I mean,
Speaker 1: I understand the appeal when you've spent your whole life
Speaker 1: trying to be a size and then there's an option,
Speaker 1: like I don't blame people for doing.
Speaker 2: That, but I think it's hugely problematic. I think it's fine. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if people need it for health reasons, fine, but I
Speaker 2: don't don't want my kids to walk out in a
Speaker 2: world where everyone's a tiny size when that isn't how
Speaker 2: the world is like.
Speaker 1: And that's where I think we're lucky, right because I
Speaker 1: do see growth and change in young It doesn't mean
Speaker 1: we would.
Speaker 2: Never take a zem pic they would be like why.
Speaker 1: I don't think it means that diet culture doesn't like
Speaker 1: suddenly exist. Of course, a new cohort of kids, right,
Speaker 1: and they're going to have other problems that are going
Speaker 1: to affect their generation way more so. It just means
Speaker 1: that they aren't the only voices in the room, and
Speaker 1: often they're not the loudest. So I think it's just
Speaker 1: more balanced or more balanced in the way of being
Speaker 1: more positive or neutral about bodies like, this is my body.
Speaker 1: I'm showing up every day and my body, and I
Speaker 1: think that is where it is. I think before it's
Speaker 1: been greatly unbalanced with media, with culture, with society, everything
Speaker 1: like that. But suddenly we're kind of flipped it on
Speaker 1: its head. So I've got a lot of hope for
Speaker 1: our kids.
Speaker 2: Me too, Me too. I also didn't realize that dit
Speaker 2: culture is rooted in racism. I had no idea. And
Speaker 2: it's funny how many things that are perceived as okay
Speaker 2: in Western culture and just the norm actually are because
Speaker 2: I've talked to you before about other different things that
Speaker 2: I read studies about. But this article by Marissa Crane
Speaker 2: was called dit culture is rooted in racism, white supremacy,
Speaker 2: and colonialism, and I knew that it was obviously directly
Speaker 2: connected to fat phobia. I didn't realize that fat phobia
Speaker 2: then had roots in the Transatlantic slave trade. So Marissa says,
Speaker 2: white European colonists labeled Black people as gluttonous, undisciplined, and
Speaker 2: hyper sexual, and held that their love of food made
Speaker 2: them fat. Meanwhile, the colonists considered themselves the superior race
Speaker 2: because of their self control and moderation, which caused them
Speaker 2: to be thin. Soon, fatness became associated with racial inferiority
Speaker 2: and immorality in the United States, and subsequently, bodyweight and
Speaker 2: size became a way for people to distinguish between slaves
Speaker 2: and non slaves, with a common belief being that fat
Speaker 2: people didn't deserve to be free. When I asked our shitters,
Speaker 2: ninety eight percent said that they had body image issues
Speaker 2: growing up and were affected by toxic diet culture, and
Speaker 2: ninety percent said they still suffered the same issues. And
Speaker 2: that makes me so fucking sad, because that's an awful
Speaker 2: lot of fabulous shitters walking around the world not feeling
Speaker 2: great about themselves.
Speaker 1: It doesn't surprise me, though, I was like, if you
Speaker 1: think about girlfriends, would that surprise you.
Speaker 2: I don't really talk about that stuff with my girlfriends.
Speaker 1: But just because you don't talk about it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: it doesn't exist, you know, Like I mean, if it does,
Speaker 1: it's more so.
Speaker 2: Well. Me and my sister often say that we're like,
Speaker 2: why don't we have worth body image issues? Because our
Speaker 2: mum honestly like, yeah, And which is funny because sixty
Speaker 2: three percent of SIT has said that they've said something
Speaker 2: negative about their appearance in front of their child. But
Speaker 2: ninety eight percent said their care, which is super important
Speaker 2: because my mum, I mean, she didn't know any better.
Speaker 2: But we grew up in a house where she was
Speaker 2: always trying to lose weight completely. She did the fat
Speaker 2: Blaster pills and we would just laugh because we'd be
Speaker 2: like fat bluster and she'd do intimate fasting and she'd
Speaker 2: do all the remember the real replacement shakes. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: exist those weird exercise things from the infomercials, like.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the infomercials blaster and like the away.
Speaker 2: Yes, she poured them all. So me and my sister
Speaker 2: always like, why do we not have worse body imagicies?
Speaker 2: Because you should, but you don't, which is great. Oh
Speaker 2: it's that middle aged white man.
Speaker 1: Thing coming through, coming through shrunk.
Speaker 2: We asked people for their thoughts and experiences, like so
Speaker 2: when I did a little survey to the shit is,
Speaker 2: I could not believe how much much of the toxicity
Speaker 2: stems from within the home. So we can blame like
Speaker 2: it's funny. We can blame media all we want. We
Speaker 2: can be like goddamn a I and the bloody Kardashians
Speaker 2: or whatnot, But our issues actually seem to primarily come
Speaker 2: from the language our parents use, which is why it
Speaker 2: is so important that we try and break the mold
Speaker 2: for our own kids. This got the most responsible we've
Speaker 2: ever gotten from a survey, so I'll only read some.
Speaker 2: We'll use some of them for socials because it's just
Speaker 2: so interesting. People had so much to say about this topic.
Speaker 2: So the first open ended question was to tell us
Speaker 2: about your experiences with self image and your perception of
Speaker 2: toxic diet culture. And then the second question was what
Speaker 2: are you implementing in your house to help produce negative
Speaker 2: self talk slash body image in your child slash children.
Speaker 2: I love that we're going the problem, but we're having
Speaker 2: solutions exactly. Well, there's no point just winging. We need
Speaker 2: to come up with ways to make sure that it's
Speaker 2: a little bit better. So, okay, my grandma weighing me
Speaker 2: at visits and telling me how much I had to
Speaker 2: lose by the next visit, the shame. I'm very much
Speaker 2: aware on what we say and how we say things
Speaker 2: are impacting young children. What to avoid saying. There are
Speaker 2: so many more positive things that we can focus on
Speaker 2: that doesn't involve the way someone looks. Yes, I can
Speaker 2: never remember a time that both my mom and grandma
Speaker 2: weren't on some sort of a diet, constantly talking about
Speaker 2: their weight and ideal weight and how fed up they
Speaker 2: were with their bodies, despite both being very healthy, straight
Speaker 2: sized women. During my teen years, when I was taller
Speaker 2: and bigger than average, I was constantly wishing to be
Speaker 2: smaller and thinner like the popular girls at school. I
Speaker 2: actually don't remember too much of the diet culture in
Speaker 2: the media, apart from that fat photo of Jessica Simpson
Speaker 2: and she's put fat in like commas because it's quite ear.
Speaker 2: But I acutely felt the lack of body positivity in
Speaker 2: my family, and I still it's not just media. My
Speaker 2: mum still was always on a diet exercise regime, always
Speaker 2: up and down, and still comments on people like what
Speaker 2: they wear because they shouldn't wear this because of that
Speaker 2: body part, or they should wear this because of this
Speaker 2: body part. Being tall and curvy, there was never anyone
Speaker 2: like me on TV unless they were an athlete, but
Speaker 2: you never usually saw them dressed up. You always just
Speaker 2: saw them like in athletic gear, and that's what I
Speaker 2: d most of the time. My mother is the biggest
Speaker 2: culprit of forcing toxic diet culture on me. She recently
Speaker 2: said to me, I can't wait for you to start
Speaker 2: losing your baby weight so we can share diet tips.
Speaker 2: My son was six months old at the time. He's
Speaker 2: now thirteen months. I have yet to share dieting tips
Speaker 2: with her because I'm trying to love my body and
Speaker 2: respect the time it needs to heal after pregnancy, birth
Speaker 2: and raising a baby.
Speaker 1: Ah. Oh my god, Oh my god. That is I
Speaker 1: feel for her. Go her, though, stay to her, honestly
Speaker 1: to She's obviously had a fucking generation of this said
Speaker 1: to her her mom. But like, good on you for
Speaker 1: recognizing that you've birthed the baby just over a year ago.
Speaker 1: Like take your time, girl, whatever your body looks like,
Speaker 1: that's your body. Like it's fine.
Speaker 2: I've always thought I was fat, even before I got fat.
Speaker 2: The amount of crazy diets I saw my mom do
Speaker 2: was unreal. She's doing better now that she's ever done,
Speaker 2: which is good.
Speaker 1: But like good, that's really good.
Speaker 2: It's so hard for people. It's just the amount of
Speaker 2: these responses that involve the person's mother or parents, but
Speaker 2: mother in particular. Oh my goodness, if one thing everyone
Speaker 2: can take away from this episode. It's actually and I
Speaker 2: didn't even know this, and I was doing like I
Speaker 2: thought that I knew this, but I would have blamed
Speaker 2: the media mostly. Actually, it's what's happening in home, and
Speaker 2: it's a bit of a cop out to blame the media.
Speaker 2: Of course the media have a lot to answer for,
Speaker 2: But where.
Speaker 1: Are those mums getting the pressure from it. They're getting
Speaker 1: it from the media, from the world telling them to
Speaker 1: be a certain way.
Speaker 2: I know, but we now know better, So it's our
Speaker 2: job to change that for our kids. Our moms didn't
Speaker 2: know any better.
Speaker 1: We do, Yeah, definitely, And I think we're lucky in
Speaker 1: that media is different now as well, so independently kids
Speaker 1: will have more representation and diverse exactly all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: So all of those things working together is going I
Speaker 1: mean it already has.
Speaker 2: I'll pop some of the tips because we've got heaps
Speaker 2: of like different things that people are implementing in their
Speaker 2: house to reduce that negative self talk and body image.
Speaker 2: It's mostly just about like talking about food neutraally, don't
Speaker 2: commenting on people's bodies, and like not giving your child
Speaker 2: an appearance related compliment.
Speaker 1: Yes, this is a huge one for me. Like I
Speaker 1: never call ru beautiful. I never comment on that stuff,
Speaker 1: like I just don't want that to be an important thing.
Speaker 2: I think reading through the responses made me deaf definitely
Speaker 2: realize that I need to get better with my language
Speaker 2: around food at home. Yeah, because that's like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: so hard with toddlers because I'm like and also, you
Speaker 2: know me, I've got such a sweet tooth.
Speaker 1: Oh same, but I'm like, bro, you can't live on sugar,
Speaker 1: just because I know we need to do a follow
Speaker 1: up episode on like with a kid's dietician or something around,
Speaker 1: like or a kids suck and a dietitian around like
Speaker 1: what the yae language is, because we do want to
Speaker 1: say you shouldn't eat a chocolate bar, but we want
Speaker 1: to say it in the right way.
Speaker 2: Like, you know, the advice is always you know you
Speaker 2: sometimes food and always food, And it's like, have you
Speaker 2: met a toddler They want the sometimes food all of
Speaker 2: the time and you can't help it slip into no,
Speaker 2: that's a treat, like you're not having a treat for
Speaker 2: breakfast or I don't use the word bad food to
Speaker 2: be fair, but I definitely say treat all the time.
Speaker 1: Well, do you know, what's actually so annoying is that
Speaker 1: I have the biggest sweet tooth and Rue just does
Speaker 1: knock give a shit about sugar, and so I'm always
Speaker 1: trying to do shit with her, like I want to
Speaker 1: take her out for a treat, and she's rather shit
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: And I'm just like, can you just be a normal kid,
Speaker 2: and like, she's so funny, I'll come out with you.
Speaker 2: You can take me out for ice creams Helena.
Speaker 1: I often just go by myself with her and get
Speaker 1: myself on ice cream, and I'm just like, this is
Speaker 1: not as fun as sharing it with someone else.
Speaker 2: And do you feel a little bit ridiculous that you're
Speaker 2: the adult with the ice cream and your kids make
Speaker 2: make better choices?
Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, yes, definitely.
Speaker 2: Make better choices. Do you have any final thoughts? Because
Speaker 2: I have just been rambling this episode I found it
Speaker 2: so interesting, But I did say to Key, I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do this episode because I feel like you're
Speaker 2: still very don't need to be triggled by all of
Speaker 2: the different information and articles out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad that you did take the lead on
Speaker 1: the set for sure, or because I think that to
Speaker 1: be honest, and I think we are going to do
Speaker 1: this as a follow up episode. I think that it's interesting.
Speaker 1: With my first pregnancy, I really embraced my changing body
Speaker 1: and everything like that, but this time around it was
Speaker 1: really different, and I found myself like with a lot
Speaker 1: of negative talk, which has been really hard.
Speaker 2: Do you think that that could also have something to
Speaker 2: do with that you're feeling worse in general mentally because
Speaker 2: of the grief.
Speaker 1: I think it's a number of things. I think it's
Speaker 1: not being able to exercise, like, yeah, understanding, like saying
Speaker 1: to myself, hey, you're growing a human. This pregnancy is different.
Speaker 1: You are allowed to rest, like you don't have to
Speaker 1: move your body if you're not feeling up to it.
Speaker 1: But then it's also like, well, the result of not
Speaker 1: moving my body is that mentally I feel really down.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like the cycle of like which
Speaker 1: then in turn, you know, you look different in clothes,
Speaker 1: and I was, you know, quicker to get out of
Speaker 1: genes time around, and I was really left with not
Speaker 1: a lot of options.
Speaker 2: Which is why you wore your fish clothing.
Speaker 1: No, the fisherman invest is Sheikh Kelly, even though you
Speaker 1: don't think so. So the point I was trying to
Speaker 1: make was I'm glad that you took the leader on
Speaker 1: this at this point in time, because I think that
Speaker 1: I'm definitely in one of those moments where I've become
Speaker 1: a little bit critical of my image, but I also
Speaker 1: am not. Like the interesting thing about it is you're
Speaker 1: aware of it. I'm aware of it, and then I'm
Speaker 1: also aware of the fact. Well, I think that I'm
Speaker 1: quite evolved in the body neutrality space, like you've gotten
Speaker 1: a good day, right, But I worry about women who aren't,
Speaker 1: and I worry about you know, pregnant women or women
Speaker 1: who are raising kids and them still struggling. So I
Speaker 1: think it's an important conversation to talk about, and hopefully
Speaker 1: we do do that.
Speaker 2: Definitely listen this topic. There's probably like bloody twenty episodes
Speaker 2: in it. I'm glad that you are open about it, though,
Speaker 2: because if you weren't, I would probably And like I said,
Speaker 2: it's not really something that me and my friends talk about, Like,
Speaker 2: I find it very hard to understand that someone that
Speaker 2: has so many interesting things about them and so much
Speaker 2: to live for, like, would waste too much time worrying
Speaker 2: about that. And that makes me sound evangelical, But he
Speaker 2: can back it up that I genuinely ninety five percent
Speaker 2: of the time do not have any body image issues.
Speaker 1: And that is such like honestly cal that is such
Speaker 1: a good thing to have. It's really difficult to understand
Speaker 1: when you haven't had to diagnose eating disorder, about how
Speaker 1: much of a hold it can really take on your life.
Speaker 1: I mean, people die from this every day, and which
Speaker 1: is kind of show how severe it is, like it
Speaker 1: is an illness, oh and oh absolutely, and there are
Speaker 1: varying degrees of it. But I think that it's just
Speaker 1: proven by the number of shitter is that responded. Actually,
Speaker 1: they were saying like it has been something that has
Speaker 1: always been there and changes only really just started to happen.
Speaker 1: So we are getting there. But I do love talking
Speaker 1: about this because I think.
Speaker 2: That I love juicy stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think that the reason why I finally
Speaker 1: turned a corner was through the conversations that I had
Speaker 1: about it and challenging my beliefs and challenging why I
Speaker 1: think a certain way, and just being exposed to a
Speaker 1: different way of thinking, Like if you're living in an
Speaker 1: echo chamber of people talking about their weight and their
Speaker 1: diets and boring fitting into this, but that's what you're
Speaker 1: going to believe. I think it's really important, like to
Speaker 1: broaden the conversations that you're having, or what you're listening
Speaker 1: to or things like that, because that is what changes
Speaker 1: your actual psyche around how you think about things like
Speaker 1: body weight and type culture and body neutrality and just
Speaker 1: living in a body without any kind of value attached
Speaker 1: to it.
Speaker 2: Before we move on to recommendations, I want to ask
Speaker 2: you a rhetorical question. Well, everyone's playing a long at home. Yeah,
Speaker 2: imagine the life you could live if you just allowed
Speaker 2: yourself to weigh what you weighed?
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, wow, all.
Speaker 2: Right, recommendations on the topic of today, I would like
Speaker 2: to recommend Loucinder Price aka Froom's new book All I
Speaker 2: Ever Wanted to Be Hot? If you've enjoyed this conversation,
Speaker 2: because oh my goodness, it was just like I also
Speaker 2: listened to it like on audible, and she is reading it,
Speaker 2: and it's honestly like listening to that Australian accent someone
Speaker 2: you know. I think she's around my age. Actually I
Speaker 2: don't know, I think so, I assume. So it was
Speaker 2: honestly just like reading my own experience in high school
Speaker 2: and oh my goodness, I just yeah, it was amazing.
Speaker 2: So that's my recommendation has got a very important one.
Speaker 1: Yes, So at the top of the episode, I talked
Speaker 1: about it being my mother in law's birthday and something
Speaker 1: that we are really passionate about as a family is
Speaker 1: just raising awareness for the Australian Organ Donor Register.
Speaker 2: Can you just explain to people, because it shocked me
Speaker 2: and I think it would shock a lot of other
Speaker 2: people how hard it is. It's really hard.
Speaker 1: So a lot of the time because people aren't registered.
Speaker 1: It comes down to the family at the end of
Speaker 1: someone's life who have to make that decision. And it's
Speaker 1: obviously a very emotional time. So even if you do
Speaker 1: get the family's approval to do that, so many things
Speaker 1: have to go right, like the organs have to be
Speaker 1: in good shape, the match has to be in good shape.
Speaker 1: There's paperwork that has to be done, and things can
Speaker 1: get delayed. It's just it's honestly a mirror call when
Speaker 1: an organ donation does happen.
Speaker 2: How many did you say had been donated successfully in
Speaker 2: the last year when you talked to that doctor.
Speaker 1: It was something tiny and I'm sorry sorry that shocked
Speaker 1: me start, but it was like in one year, I
Speaker 1: think they had maybe eight, and you just think of
Speaker 1: organ donation as being this thing.
Speaker 2: I just thought it was something. I thought eight would
Speaker 2: happen an hour. Like I just assumed everyone was an
Speaker 2: organ donator and that organ donating was just something simple.
Speaker 2: So this is so important.
Speaker 1: Process changed as well, Like I know, when I was
Speaker 1: younger in Queensland, going for your driver's license, you just
Speaker 1: tick a box, but now it's all been centralized and
Speaker 1: you have to go to Services Australia dot gov do
Speaker 1: AU and actually register, like it's a national register where
Speaker 1: you can record your organ in tissue donation decision, which
Speaker 1: means that they haven't on a file. You have to
Speaker 1: be over sixteen to do it, which most of our
Speaker 1: listeners definitely would be. But I think because it changed,
Speaker 1: even if you had previously ticked a box on whatever
Speaker 1: kind of driver's license form or something, that actually took
Speaker 1: away the register that you are registering for organis tissue donations.
Speaker 1: So I think that something that really stood out to
Speaker 1: me was just so how grateful the people at the
Speaker 1: organization were and how much just how precious they know
Speaker 1: that that gift can be.
Speaker 2: Oh it's the most heartbreaking gift. I just finished reading
Speaker 2: a book where the mother had to, you know, choose
Speaker 2: to donate her daughter's organs, and it was so horrible
Speaker 2: because I was reading it through the lens of the
Speaker 2: mum and she's like, oh my god, these people just
Speaker 2: asking me these questions like it's so insensitive, blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: But it's like, but they actually just they're just doing
Speaker 2: their job. They have to. That would be the hardest job,
Speaker 2: but they would be so grateful for the amount of
Speaker 2: lives that they can save.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And honestly, like the amount of lives that
Speaker 1: are touched by a loved ones's organ donation is just incredible.
Speaker 1: And when you lose someone really in any way, whether
Speaker 1: it's like suddenly or a long illness or whatever, like
Speaker 1: you just need there to be like some happy news,
Speaker 1: you know. So for us, it's a family, it's been
Speaker 1: really important that we made that decision and and it's beautiful.
Speaker 1: There's like a little organ donation ceremony happening in the
Speaker 1: next couple of months in Sydney and Newcastle for the
Speaker 1: families of organ donator. So just even like recognizing that,
Speaker 1: like even though you'll love, especially like how they like
Speaker 1: live on you know, yeah because they do, Yeah, they do,
Speaker 1: and just how thankful those families are. You also find
Speaker 1: out about those families, you know, it's all very like
Speaker 1: you don't know their names or anything, but you know
Speaker 1: their location and you know the family that they haven't
Speaker 1: so you really understand like the depths of the impact.
Speaker 1: That's something like so small. It's not small, but like
Speaker 1: something so easy to do. Not easy either, but like
Speaker 1: something so selfless can.
Speaker 2: Have on this something selfless exactly because the yeah, the
Speaker 2: easy small they're huge, big decisions, but there's no alternative
Speaker 2: that wouldn't have that impact. So it's kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's hard. The language around it's very hard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I know like culturally and some religions and
Speaker 1: stuff like. Of course there are going to be roadblocks
Speaker 1: if your beliefs don't allow you to do that. But
Speaker 1: if it's something you haven't thought about or considered before,
Speaker 1: I would definitely encourage you to at least read about
Speaker 1: it and make that decision because it is just such
Speaker 1: a gift. And I'll put the link to the Australian
Speaker 1: organ don't register in the show notes, so go and
Speaker 1: check it out and read all about it.
Speaker 2: Make sure that you're registered as well.
Speaker 1: Yes, do it, do it, do it.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us today. Please, like
Speaker 2: I said at the top, make sure you rate and
Speaker 2: review us and share the pod on your socials. Send
Speaker 2: us a DM let us know what you want to hear.
Speaker 2: You can find us at Kiris, at Kelly Underscore mccaren,
Speaker 2: and at AESSR dot pot.
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by myself, Kiri Cells, and Kelly mccaren,
Speaker 1: with audio production by the lovely Maddie JOANNU. See you
Speaker 1: next week.
Speaker 2: She is bye bye