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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Mumma Mer's twice daily

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Speaker 2: news podcast, The Quikie. This week has marked a significant

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Speaker 2: turning point in the Israel Hummas war. Remaining alive hostages

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Speaker 2: returned to Israel, the bodies of others slowly being brought

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Speaker 2: back to their families. Palestinians locked up in Israeli prisons

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Speaker 2: also released. There's potential stalling though on this phase of

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Speaker 2: the peace deal. More on that in the headlines shortly.

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Speaker 2: But what about the families who won't get to welcome

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Speaker 2: their loved ones home with open arms, receiving their remains,

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Speaker 2: or nothing at all. Before we get there, Here's Claire

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Speaker 2: Murphy with the latest from the QUICKI newsroom for Thursday,

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Speaker 2: October sixteenth.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Taylor. Israeli authority say one of the bodies returned

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Speaker 1: to them from Hamas on Tuesday night local time is

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Speaker 1: not one of the hostages they're looking for. The three

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Speaker 1: others handed back to Israel after being taken hostage in

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Speaker 1: October seven, twenty twenty three, when Hamas attacked Israel, killing

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Speaker 1: twelve hundred people, have been identified as Yuril Baruk, Tama, Nimrodi,

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Speaker 1: and Eten Levi. The fourth body's DNA does not match

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Speaker 1: any profile of the remaining hostages still to be returned.

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Speaker 1: With four more repatriated this week, there are now twenty

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Speaker 1: one bodies of missing hostages still to be returned. This

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Speaker 1: is the second time Hamas has handed over remains of

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Speaker 1: hostages only for it to turn out to be someone else.

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Speaker 1: During an earlier ceasefire this year, the militant group exchanged

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Speaker 1: the bodies that identified as Shiri Bibas and her two sons. However,

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Speaker 1: the body of Shii turned out to not be her,

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Speaker 1: but an unidentified Palestinian woman. Disgraced former political staffer Bruce

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Speaker 1: Lehman is fighting to safeguard personal diaries that were seized

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Speaker 1: during a raid on his home by the anti corruption watchdog.

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Speaker 1: The National Anti Corruption Commission or na double C, conducted

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Speaker 1: the search in June twenty twenty four amid an investigation

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Speaker 1: into claims Lhman misappropriated secret documents related to French submarines.

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Speaker 1: Lhman denies the allegation and claims investigators seized only two

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Speaker 1: handwritten personal diaries during the raid. Lhermann told the federal

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Speaker 1: court the diaries contained confidential information that should not be

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Speaker 1: disclosed due to a claim of legal professional privilege, but

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Speaker 1: the commission's lawyer says his client has not received any

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Speaker 1: claim of legal professional privilege from Lhman. Lherman issuing NABC

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Speaker 1: chief Paul Brereton and Federal Labour Government Minister Don Farrell

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Speaker 1: for legal costs incurred during the investigation into what he

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Speaker 1: describes as frivolous James Bond like allegations. He claims he

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Speaker 1: was repeatedly told he was entitled to funding for legal

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Speaker 1: representation to defend himself during the investigation, but still has

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Speaker 1: not received any money. Kim Kardashian has sat down with

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Speaker 1: Alex Cooper on the Call Her Daddy podcast, talking about

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Speaker 1: her ex husband Kanye's erratic behavior and how he affects

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Speaker 1: her dating life now. Kardashian told Cooper that she felt

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Speaker 1: unsafe emotionally and financially when the two were together. She

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Speaker 1: would wake up one morning and they'd have five Lamborghinis,

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Speaker 1: and the next day they would be gone, Karanye having

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Speaker 1: given them away to friends. She said she would never

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Speaker 1: know what she'd get every day when she woke up.

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Speaker 1: She said the final straw that ended their marriage was

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Speaker 1: when she realized her mental health had started to affect

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Speaker 1: her parenting, saying she had to save herself to be

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Speaker 1: a better mum. Kardashian was also asked about whether having

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Speaker 1: a vocal ex impacts her approach to dating now, which

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Speaker 1: Kardashian said definitely, and that she'll get close to someone

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Speaker 1: who will then put the brakes on, saying they don't

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Speaker 1: want to deal with her ex. She also reflected on

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Speaker 1: the music video Kanye made about her then boyfriend Pete Davison,

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Speaker 1: where a plast scene model of the comedian was buried alive,

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Speaker 1: saying it wasn't fair on him and that it made

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Speaker 1: her feel sad for him, but that he handled it

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Speaker 1: incredibly well, telling her it's okay, I got this, It's

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Speaker 1: all good. Kardashian says she hasn't been in another toxic

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Speaker 1: relationship since Kanye. Liam Payne's girlfriend Kate Cassidy, has recalled

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Speaker 1: the last time she said goodbye to the One Direction star.

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Speaker 1: A year on from his tragic death, The twenty six

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Speaker 1: year old shared a video on social media, saying October

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Speaker 1: twelve was the last day she spent with Liam, explaining

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Speaker 1: how she felt extremely numb, so numb that someone could

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Speaker 1: slap her across the face and she wouldn't be fased.

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Speaker 1: She said she'd struggled to say goodbye when leaving him

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Speaker 1: in the hotel room in Argentina, saying that Payne had

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Speaker 1: said to her, you're going to miss your flight, and

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Speaker 1: that she was acting like this was the last time

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Speaker 1: she was ever going to see him. She says in

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Speaker 1: the video, little did I know it literally was the

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Speaker 1: last time. Payne died on October sixteen, twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: after falling from the third floor of the Hotel balcony

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Speaker 1: in Buenos Aires.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Claire next what It's like to be a hostage family.

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Speaker 2: Earlier this week, we spoke to Shruk Ahler, a Palestinian

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Speaker 2: journalist and mother based in Gaza. Shruke has faced unspeakable tragedy,

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Speaker 2: losing her husband in an attack on their home. His

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Speaker 2: eyes were full of tears and blood.

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Speaker 3: Well he was gaspink, like catching his last breath.

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Speaker 2: On the other side of the world in the UK,

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Speaker 2: Adam Mahanit has been campaigning for the release of the

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Speaker 2: rest of the Israeli hostages held by Hamas. This week

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Speaker 2: we saw all remaining twenty alive hostages freed, the bodies

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Speaker 2: of those not alive slowly returning. For Adam, the return

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Speaker 2: of hostages is extremely personal. His cousin Sahi Idan, was

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Speaker 2: taken by Hamas on October seven. His body eventually returned

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Speaker 2: to his family. Earlier this year, Sahi and his eldest

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Speaker 2: daughter Mayan were killed by the terrorist organization. Since then,

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Speaker 2: Adam has committed to campaigning for the release of the

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Speaker 2: remaining hostages. So how did he feel watching on as

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Speaker 2: other families were reunited with those held in captivity this week? Well,

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Speaker 2: he'll never get to see his cousin again, Adam, are

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Speaker 2: you able to tell us a little bit about your

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Speaker 2: family and your cousin Sahi?

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Speaker 3: Sahi my cousins, was a few months younger than me.

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Speaker 3: He lived all his life in the community called Nahalos,

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Speaker 3: which is about six hundred meters away from the cause

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Speaker 3: of Border in southern Israel. Tachi was very much a

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Speaker 3: man of few simple pleasures, most notably sport. He was

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Speaker 3: a mad hap Wel tel Aviv FC fan and a

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Speaker 3: Hapoel tel Aviv basketball fan. When he was returned to US,

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Speaker 3: we had a funeral celebration of his life at the

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Speaker 3: stadium and they reserved a permanent seat in the stadium

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Speaker 3: for him, along with his daughter Mayan i Dan, who

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Speaker 3: was murdered. Mayan Sachi loved his family. He had four

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Speaker 3: children with his wife Galli.

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Speaker 2: Every time we hear these stories about families being taken

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Speaker 2: and murdered, it is absolutely horrific. You've mentioned there about

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Speaker 2: his daughter Mayan who was murdered in their home. It's

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Speaker 2: actually though he was actually taken, and can you tell

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Speaker 2: us a bit about what actually happened. He was taken

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Speaker 2: out of his home and then held hostage. Did you

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Speaker 2: have any indication about whether he was still alive or not?

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Speaker 2: When did you know that he was never going to

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Speaker 2: return home?

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Speaker 3: On October seventh, like everyone, they heard the rocket sirens

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Speaker 3: at six twenty nine am, so the youngest were already

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Speaker 3: in the rocket shelter. Tachi, Gali and Mayan rushed into

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Speaker 3: the rocket shelter and thought it was another quote unquote

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Speaker 3: normal attack. But quite quickly they realized it wasn't because

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Speaker 3: there were hundreds of rockets flying by and you can

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Speaker 3: hear them it's very loud, and that's when they heard

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Speaker 3: the gunfire, and then they knew that there was intruders

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Speaker 3: in the community. The community WhatsApp group alerted people to

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Speaker 3: an intrusion. An unfortunate reality of rocket shelters is that

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Speaker 3: they're not designed for intrusions, so there's no locks on

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Speaker 3: the door and Tachi he barricaded the door with his

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Speaker 3: body and Mayanne, who had just celebrated her eighteenth birthday

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Speaker 3: only four days earlier. Balloons from her birthday party were

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Speaker 3: even still up in the house. She went to go

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Speaker 3: and help her family, bravely by helping her dad barricade

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Speaker 3: the door. Eventually, the terrorists got frustrated and they shot

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Speaker 3: through the door, killing Mayan instantly. Saki, at first didn't

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Speaker 3: know what happened. They had meanwhile opened the door and

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Speaker 3: the lights were also The light flooded in and he

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Speaker 3: could see his daughter on the floor, her blood pooling

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Speaker 3: out onto the tiles. He tried desperately to resuscitate her,

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Speaker 3: and to no avail. It was a killing blow. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 3: the terrorists had taken the rest of the family out.

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Speaker 3: Two of his three other children were there with him.

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Speaker 3: His third was fortunately in Tel Aviv Charron, and they

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Speaker 3: forced Golly Mayan's mother, his wife, to unlock her phone

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Speaker 3: so that they could live stream the family's horror onto

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Speaker 3: her Facebook feed, which is how much of my family

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Speaker 3: found out what happened. They used my family's home as

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Speaker 3: the base for their assault onto the community, and the

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Speaker 3: rockets were flying. The clips from that unlocked phone of

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Speaker 3: Golli's actually ended up on the Internet and shared and

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Speaker 3: became one of the earliest viral clips that went from

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Speaker 3: October seventh to a lot of people know my family

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Speaker 3: from that video. Eventually, the terrorists take the neighbors, the

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Speaker 3: Milan family, only the Shai and their two small children

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Speaker 3: into the sitting room of our family's home and hold

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Speaker 3: them there together for a while. And you could see

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Speaker 3: at some point in the clip because this whole live

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Speaker 3: stream I was sitting on Facebook. Despite Facebook's promises after

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Speaker 3: christ Church and after the Buffalo shootings that it would

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Speaker 3: take measures to stop terrorists from being able to use

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Speaker 3: this platforms to propagate their attacks, it continued on for

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Speaker 3: a very long time. Eventually, they take Tahi and Omri

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Speaker 3: away as collateral to protect their exit and frog Manche

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Speaker 3: de Gaza where that was the last time my family

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Speaker 3: saw Sahi alive in person, and Omri wonderfully has returned.

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Speaker 3: Two families, two fathers, two husbands, two sons, two brothers,

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Speaker 3: two cousins taken, one returned in a coffin, one returned

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Speaker 3: alive and reunited with his family.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing that. I know that anytime somebody

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Speaker 2: asked you about what has happened to your family, having

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Speaker 2: to step back through it is immensely painful, So we

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Speaker 2: do really appreciate it. I think that a lot of

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Speaker 2: people around the world have been watching this story unfold

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Speaker 2: for two years. They've been sitting with it and reading

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Speaker 2: headlines and seeing pictures and maybe not really fully grasping

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Speaker 2: the reality and the gravity of the situation. I do

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Speaker 2: really appreciate it. You mentioned there that the neighbor was

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Speaker 2: able to come home, and unfortunately so he was delivered

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Speaker 2: home but not alive. When did your family receive his body?

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Speaker 3: Tachi was in the first phase of the earlier hostage

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Speaker 3: deal that was announced the beginning of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: He was the last week of transfers of the hostage deal,

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Speaker 3: and we actually didn't know whether he was alive or dead.

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Speaker 3: They told us in the beginning that there would be

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Speaker 3: some who would be returned dead, but we didn't know who.

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Speaker 3: And as the weeks went by and we didn't see Tahi,

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Speaker 3: we kind of started to think maybe he's one of

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Speaker 3: the dead, but we still didn't have any firm knowledge

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Speaker 3: of it. And we had seen Tahi alive in a

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Speaker 3: Hamas propaganda video the year before, so in January twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty four, he was paraded on a Hamas propaganda video.

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Speaker 3: They did these regularly with a lot of the kind

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Speaker 3: of hostages where they would sort of treat it sometimes

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Speaker 3: like a game show, and they would ask are they

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Speaker 3: alive or are they dead? And they would just leave

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Speaker 3: this question mark and the ubiquitous inverted red triangle that

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Speaker 3: is their moniker. On the week that Tachi was supposed

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Speaker 3: to be transferred, I flew out to Israel to go

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Speaker 3: and be with the family. So when we left the

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Speaker 3: airport in the UK, we still didn't know if we

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Speaker 3: were going to the most amazing family reunion or to

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Speaker 3: a funeral. And then when we checked online we got

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Speaker 3: the news that he that a body had been delivered

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Speaker 3: with his name on it. We still didn't entirely believe

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Speaker 3: it because the week before, shiribug Bebus's body was returned

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Speaker 3: in a coffin and it turned out to not be hers.

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Speaker 3: It was a Palestidian woman whose name to this day

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Speaker 3: we still don't know. In a weird way, we were

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Speaker 3: kind of hoping that Hamas were playing tricks on us

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Speaker 3: again and doing something like that. It took twelve hours

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Speaker 3: for the forensics team to perform the necessary test and

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Speaker 3: eventually they found something and they had a positive idea,

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Speaker 3: and that's when we knew for sure that's how he

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Speaker 3: was dead.

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Speaker 2: It must be a difficult sort of feeling to sit

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Speaker 2: within this week watching Hostage Square in Tel Aviv, watching

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Speaker 2: the remaining alive hostages returning home to their loved ones.

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Speaker 2: What was that moment like for you earlier in the week.

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Speaker 3: We have all us hostage families built strong bonds with

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Speaker 3: one another and a sense of solidarity with one another.

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Speaker 3: Our fates are intertwined, so whenever a hostage family would

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Speaker 3: receive wonderful news of and be reunited with their loved ones,

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Speaker 3: we would celebrate with them and feel that sense of joy,

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Speaker 3: even if ours wasn't returned to us. And likewise, when

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Speaker 3: they would receive the worst news and told that their

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Speaker 3: loved one is dead or receive their coffin. We grieved

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Speaker 3: with them. Even now we can both celebrate the return

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Speaker 3: of homely our neighbor reunited with his family, his two

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Speaker 3: children who have been kissing his hostage poster good night

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Speaker 3: every night since he's been gone till now being able

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Speaker 3: to kiss him in person, of course, I feel an

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Speaker 3: immense sense of joy, obviously bittersweet because there's always a

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Speaker 3: start in the back of your mind, like if we

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Speaker 3: could have done this sooner, then maybe take would have

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Speaker 3: come home alive, and so many others. I think the

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Speaker 3: hostages should be returned and should have been returned immediately.

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Speaker 3: It should never been taken. It should always have been

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Speaker 3: treated as a humanitarian issue, not as a political issue.

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Speaker 3: And unfortunately the international community kind of played along. So

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Speaker 3: if you cared about what was happening in Gaza and

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Speaker 3: you wanted to see the swiftest resolution of the conflict,

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Speaker 3: that would be the way to do it. But I

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Speaker 3: didn't see not only from world leaders, but from anyone

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Speaker 3: campaigning for Palaesidians and Gaza to not many loud voices

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Speaker 3: calling for the release of the hostages, which would have

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Speaker 3: ended things much sooner, probably prevented tens of thousands of

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Speaker 3: innocent civilians dying or injuries.

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Speaker 2: In saying all of that, then, Adam, what do you

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Speaker 2: think the sentiment from the Israeli community In Israel is

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Speaker 2: at the moment.

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Speaker 3: We're still kind of stuck in October seven and as

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Speaker 3: a nation, we're still in this state of trauma. There's

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Speaker 3: no progressing on from that until we feel like the

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Speaker 3: actual circumstances of change. The reality around us is still

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Speaker 3: very much that we're focused on bringing the remainder of

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Speaker 3: our people home, even if they're dead. Something that we

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Speaker 3: take kind of great pride in is that we don't

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Speaker 3: leave anyone behind. And in Judaism, there's a real kind

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Speaker 3: of sort of spiritual and religious significance to the remains

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Speaker 3: being buried properly and tact so it is really important

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Speaker 3: that we bring them home.

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Speaker 2: Do you have a message or play for Israeli Prime

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Speaker 2: Minister Benjamin Nahu?

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Speaker 3: Why do you ask me about him?

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Speaker 2: Well, you made the point of this should never have

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Speaker 2: been a political issue, and he is the person that

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Speaker 2: leads your country, the person that Israeli people look to

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Speaker 2: for guidance throughout this entire conflict. I just wonder if

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Speaker 2: you were to be able to have an open and

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Speaker 2: direct line to him, what you would say to him.

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Speaker 3: So I've get asked this a lot, and I always

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Speaker 3: recoil slightly. And it's not because I don't have anything

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Speaker 3: to say to Benjaminson now who or anybody like that.

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Speaker 3: But it always feels to me like the onus is

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Speaker 3: on him and put on him, as if he was

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Speaker 3: the one responsible for taking hostages and leaving them there.

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Speaker 3: And yes, he does share some blame for the lacks

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Speaker 3: of security establishment and the failings that we still need

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Speaker 3: to learn about what happened on October seventh in terms

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Speaker 3: of why response was so slow, and there's many questions

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Speaker 3: that he'll have to answer, along with the rest of

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Speaker 3: the IDF chief of staff and all of them. I

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Speaker 3: always feel like there's an unfair or disproportionate amount of

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Speaker 3: attention and focus on him and the Israeli government and

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Speaker 3: their culpability versus say Hamas or Islamic Jihad and particularly

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Speaker 3: their state benefactors. And yet all the focus seems to

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Speaker 3: be on the demo credit country that has a government

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Speaker 3: that is held accountable by its own people. I'm more

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Speaker 3: curious about why there's not enough questions about the accountability

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Speaker 3: of Hamas, who instigated the October seventh massacre. I struggle

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Speaker 3: with that question because I feel like it's it's slightly

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Speaker 3: missing the point. There's plenty of blame to go around.

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying anyone's blameless here, but I think that

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Speaker 3: we should primarily refocus our attention back to the perpetrators

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Speaker 3: of the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust, and

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Speaker 3: also what that does for Palestinians, because so many of

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Speaker 3: my Palestinian friends are frustrated by the fact that they

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Speaker 3: can't get their message out because people just assume that

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Speaker 3: Hamas represents them. What would I ask Benjamin natanehu Hum?

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Speaker 3: I guess I would ask him why we've allowed Hamah

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Speaker 3: to stay there for so long?

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Speaker 2: Adam, to end our conversation, I want to know what

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Speaker 2: your hope for the future of Israeli and Palestine is.

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Speaker 2: How do we ensure that what we've seen in the

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Speaker 2: last two years, families on both sides having to deal

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Speaker 2: with not knowing if their loved ones are alive, if

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Speaker 2: they'll be returned. How do we ensure that that never

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Speaker 2: happens again?

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Speaker 3: The only way I know how to do that is

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Speaker 3: to stop dehumanizing the other. It has to stop. You

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Speaker 3: have to start seeing people as human beings. You have

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Speaker 3: to start understanding them and treating them as equals and

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Speaker 3: engaging with them and turning away from these extremes that

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Speaker 3: are just leading people down these dark alleys. There's so

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Speaker 3: much darkness in this world and we need more light.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with

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Speaker 2: us today. The quickie is produced by me Table Strano,

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Speaker 2: Ilaria Brophy and Claire Murphy, with audio production by Lou Hill,