Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Mom and me are out loud.
Speaker 1: It's what women are actually talking about on Monday, the
Speaker 1: fifteenth of June. I'm Holly Wayne Wright, I'm.
Speaker 2: Claire Stephens and I'm Amelia Wister.
Speaker 1: And here's what's made our agenda for today. Gwyneth Paltrow
Speaker 1: has made a lot of people extremely furious.
Speaker 3: We explain, have the Beckhams overplayed their hands this time?
Speaker 4: Plus is swimming in the ocean a thing of the
Speaker 4: past for many Australians now.
Speaker 1: But first look, in case you missed it, I was
Speaker 1: away last week and Claire Stevens upset a lot of
Speaker 1: people with some comments you made. Hi. They weren't political,
Speaker 1: they weren't outrageous. They were about sport.
Speaker 5: I'm a shamed.
Speaker 4: I people in my life are annoyed me, but most
Speaker 4: of all, more importantly, the out louders are annoyed me.
Speaker 5: Look, I was I.
Speaker 1: Go away for a week and sports correspondent Claire Stevens
Speaker 1: goes rogue. You were talking about the Knicks, the New
Speaker 1: York Knicks who've just won the championships. For the celebrity favorites,
Speaker 1: Da Da Da Da Da, and you were talking about
Speaker 1: the phenomena, the pop culture phenomena of that. And Claire
Speaker 1: said that, and I have to say that I found
Speaker 1: it a little strange. I love you, but I grew
Speaker 1: up in England, where football is a religion and people
Speaker 1: get very excited about it. We live in Australia, where
Speaker 1: sport again big part of the cultural identity. But you
Speaker 1: said that sporting excitement was an American thing.
Speaker 4: Okay, Firstly, you're only annoyed at me because I made
Speaker 4: fun of your coffee order, and there was also that. Secondly,
Speaker 4: I didn't word myself perfectly. What I meant is that
Speaker 4: when I've been at American sporting events, there is an
Speaker 4: earnestness that doesn't exist elsewhere, for example, and I think
Speaker 4: I may specifically be thinking of the national anthem. When
Speaker 4: Americans sing the national anthem at the beginning of a
Speaker 4: sporting matt they like cry, I.
Speaker 2: Think you're doing are definitely digging.
Speaker 4: The Australians don't do that. Our lover's sport is more
Speaker 4: fun and more lighthearted.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, those of us who decided that what you
Speaker 1: said with the Australians don't care about sport, and I
Speaker 1: know that's not what you said, but when have we
Speaker 1: ever left truth get in the way of a good story.
Speaker 1: I found it confusing, So did the eighteen thousand people
Speaker 1: who packed out Melbourne's Federation Square and an overflow venue
Speaker 1: yesterday afternoon to watch the first soccer whose game of
Speaker 1: the World Cup. Are you aware of what the World
Speaker 1: Cup is?
Speaker 5: I am, and my timing in heimsha.
Speaker 1: Because Australia is about to get one of its contagious
Speaker 1: excitements because the soccer is first game went well. This
Speaker 1: is where we all remember, basically that men play football too,
Speaker 1: because all the countries in the world are in America
Speaker 1: playing football.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 4: I heard World Cup and I was like oh, and
Speaker 4: then I saw men and I was like, oh, anyway.
Speaker 1: The soccer is won and it wasn't actually expected Turkya.
Speaker 1: They were playing in Turkya before. We're doing some shit
Speaker 1: talking and saying like and people said this a very
Speaker 1: average team. Da da da dah. The fact that soccer
Speaker 1: is one mean that everybody is going to be going
Speaker 1: absolutely nuts for this. Claire, learn the names Nestari Eron
Speaker 1: Kunda and Connor Metcalf. They scored the goals yesterday. You're
Speaker 1: going to need to know those to join in the fund.
Speaker 1: Do you have any official apologies you want to?
Speaker 2: Where's your notes app?
Speaker 4: I know I actually do need to post a notes
Speaker 4: ap apology, don't I Everyone did go nuts yesterday, didn't
Speaker 4: They did? And I went over to Jesse's house and
Speaker 4: her husband had all the children were crying because he
Speaker 4: had yelled so loudly that they thought he was angry.
Speaker 4: We were sharing videos within our family group chat of
Speaker 4: random family members just absolutely losing it. There were friends
Speaker 4: who were like, I don't know anything about football, but
Speaker 4: I'm at the pub with my with my child.
Speaker 5: Who's who's holding Australian flat?
Speaker 6: You know what?
Speaker 3: Love?
Speaker 1: We love a bandwagon? Oh yes, we're going to be
Speaker 1: soccer barnwagon from here till next Tuesday. The next soccer
Speaker 1: use game, not that anybody cares honestly, is at five
Speaker 1: am Saturday morning. We're playing America and of course the
Speaker 1: state of origin this Wednesday night. Nobody cares about that either.
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm embarrassed, and as somebody who came as somebody
Speaker 4: who came from a rugby league family growing up, I
Speaker 4: hope my extended family weren't listening to that. Soak, I
Speaker 4: thought I'd change the topic to save myself. So in
Speaker 4: case you missed it. On Sunday evening, which is Monday
Speaker 4: morning here in Australia, President Donald Trump announced a peace
Speaker 4: agreement between the US and Iran. The deal with the
Speaker 4: Islamic Republic of Iran is now complete. Congratulations to all,
Speaker 4: he wrote, I hereby fully authorized the toll free opening
Speaker 4: of the Strait of Homewoods.
Speaker 2: I think he's just using here by the sound fancy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because then he said, and simultaneously here with authorize
Speaker 4: the immediate removal of the United States Naval blockade.
Speaker 3: Imagine he's like a medieval court jester when he makes
Speaker 3: these pronouncements.
Speaker 4: And it's like, mate, every other one of your bloody
Speaker 4: truth social post has typos in it, like it's not
Speaker 4: part of your brand. He then wrote, this great deal
Speaker 4: will bring peace and security to the whole region. Many
Speaker 4: presidents have tried to make peace with Iran and all
Speaker 4: have failed. Before me, the leaders of the region have
Speaker 4: for the first time found a president who can help
Speaker 4: them achieve real peace now. In the lead up to
Speaker 4: the news, representatives of the Islamic Republic said that Trump
Speaker 4: had an unusual insistence that the deal would coincide with
Speaker 4: his eightieth birthday, and that's.
Speaker 1: What I wondered if it was a present.
Speaker 4: Yeah, He's like, oh, nothing like a deadline. For some reason,
Speaker 4: it was his eightieth birthday. He's also celebrating his adth
Speaker 4: by hosting a UFC event on the lawn of the
Speaker 4: White House. So those things who among us has not
Speaker 4: wished for that exactly. In response to the news, one
Speaker 4: Congressman Seth Moulton criticized the economic and human toll of
Speaker 4: the war, saying this it's a terrible deal. It's basically
Speaker 4: a surrender document from Donald Trump to the Supreme Leader
Speaker 4: of Iran. I mean, one hundred billion dollars of tax
Speaker 4: payer money already put into this war, fourteen Americans dead,
Speaker 4: and we get a deal that just reopens a strait
Speaker 4: that was already opened before he started this stupid war.
Speaker 1: How is that a win?
Speaker 5: Amelia.
Speaker 4: There's a lot we don't know about this peace agreement,
Speaker 4: not in the least because there's so much political spin attached,
Speaker 4: which you won't believe. But Trump, he gets very into
Speaker 4: the spin. What do we know about what this means?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good question. Well, Iran has confirmed a ceasefire, agreement.
Speaker 3: It's confirmed, specifically that there is an end to the
Speaker 3: military conflict on all fronts, including in Lebanon. Not as
Speaker 3: I said, Iran agreed to that. Israel may or may
Speaker 3: not have agreed to the end of fighting in Lebanon,
Speaker 3: and for that matter, Hesbla may or may not have
Speaker 3: agreed to the end of fighting in Lebanon. But that
Speaker 3: is what the US and Iran agreed. The second thing
Speaker 3: that we know is that there is it does appear
Speaker 3: like the US blockade of the Strait has ended, because that's,
Speaker 3: by the way, why the strait wasn't open right now.
Speaker 3: It's because the US had blocked the strait. So that's
Speaker 3: worth noting.
Speaker 1: Does that mean Amelia, I know, I don't know if
Speaker 1: you could answer this or not. Is petrol about to
Speaker 1: get cheap O again?
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so, because we don't yet. So
Speaker 3: that brings me to the things that we don't know.
Speaker 3: And one of the things we don't know is whether
Speaker 3: or not I Ran is going to start charging a
Speaker 3: toll in the Strait of Hormootes, because one might say,
Speaker 3: why wouldn't they because they've realized now what leverage they
Speaker 3: have over people. So we don't actually know what's going
Speaker 3: to happen with that, and we don't know what's happened
Speaker 3: with the nuclear program, which was his whole ostensible reason
Speaker 3: for starting the war.
Speaker 4: Trump did say that it was a toll free opening
Speaker 4: of the strait. Oh well, Trump said, Trump says it.
Speaker 3: That's kind of like, yeah, Trump doesn't own the Strait
Speaker 3: of Hormootes, so it doesn't really matter what Trump says
Speaker 3: about it. But I do think it's right that he
Speaker 3: wanted it done for his birthday.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a piece of fit. You think it's been three
Speaker 1: weeks of escalating Gwyneth's crisis crises in fact, and look,
Speaker 1: I was away last week when the really big one hit,
Speaker 1: but my DMS took a smashing. I am associated with
Speaker 1: Gwyneth Paltrow and I would now like to be removed
Speaker 1: from this narrative.
Speaker 4: Please, it is I would there needs to be a
Speaker 4: historical study about how Hollywayinwright became because you really do
Speaker 4: like when I see Gwyneth do something, I'm like, oh god, Holly,
Speaker 4: and last.
Speaker 1: Week in particular, that was not good for me. Let
Speaker 1: me explain some of these things, because they're sort of silly,
Speaker 1: to surprising, to completely shocking, right, what sort of happened
Speaker 1: Week one was a regular gate am I saying sorry
Speaker 1: because here in Australia we just call that rocket. It's
Speaker 1: the green stuff I grow it in my garden. Flex
Speaker 1: Gwyneth is using rocket in a very upsetting way. We've
Speaker 1: got a little grab of her on the US Today
Speaker 1: Show talking to Savannah Guthrie about where she puts her arugular.
Speaker 7: You want to avoid dairy. One trick that I do
Speaker 7: is I dice up arugula and I.
Speaker 2: Put it in.
Speaker 7: Really it sounds weird, but it kind of adds like
Speaker 7: a nice texture to it and it's delicious.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: I like rocket. I eat it quite a lot. Salad, parmesan, tomatoes, yum.
Speaker 4: Dairy substitute question mark doesn't make any sense. Some of
Speaker 4: my favorite comments in response to this were I replace
Speaker 4: my chicken with marshmallows, and sometimes when I want a salad,
Speaker 4: I make a margarita. And that's really where we're at.
Speaker 4: It's like, that's it's not I have to google is it?
Speaker 3: There? Is?
Speaker 5: Is rocket dairy? No?
Speaker 1: No, it's really not. Even if you don't know much
Speaker 1: about that, it's really really not. Then things took a
Speaker 1: more serious and surprising turn. Gwenneth has a podcast called
Speaker 1: Goop Up. Yes, I listened to it.
Speaker 5: Listen to this particular episode.
Speaker 1: No, I was busy. I did not listen to this,
Speaker 1: but for reasons that I don't understand. She had a
Speaker 1: man on there called Trey stevens Now. He runs a
Speaker 1: military tech company which makes missiles and combat drones, and
Speaker 1: Gwyneth and Trey discussed, among other things, why Jesus would
Speaker 1: be cool with Trey selling weapons of war. This already
Speaker 1: made a lot of people angry. This was after a
Speaker 1: clip had surfaced of Gwyneth where she was talking about politics.
Speaker 1: The bit that you might have seen that went quite
Speaker 1: viral was Gwyneth was talking about her politics, and she
Speaker 1: was basically saying that these days she's neither left nor right,
Speaker 1: and her husband's very progressive and he basically thinks she's
Speaker 1: a Republican, but she doesn't feel anything anymore. Gwyneth was
Speaker 1: talking about her own political positioning, and this is what
Speaker 1: she said.
Speaker 7: I noticed with my own husband, who's the best person
Speaker 7: ever in the world. He's so progressive, Like he has
Speaker 7: such a sweet heart and he wants to like make
Speaker 7: sure everybody's looked after I'm pretty centrist and my husband
Speaker 7: thinks I'm a Republican, which I'm not a Republican. I mean,
Speaker 7: I don't feel anything right now, to be totally honest
Speaker 7: with you, I feel like I'm completely an independent.
Speaker 2: She's so condescending to Brad.
Speaker 4: Brad, Oh, he's such a good person.
Speaker 5: That's what.
Speaker 4: It's a very American thing to almost be.
Speaker 2: Oh, Claire, be careful.
Speaker 4: To be like, you're a do gooder, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean, Like, oh, you're such a do good like like, oh,
Speaker 4: he's such a good persons.
Speaker 3: Think that a lot of people on the right like
Speaker 3: to love a people on the left is that they're
Speaker 3: just sort of unrealistic and just soppy.
Speaker 4: Whereas Gwyneth in that interview talks a lot about how,
Speaker 4: you know, we've got darkness and light within us, and
Speaker 4: it's it's a battle for both.
Speaker 1: And it's like a conversation to have with a missile dealer.
Speaker 4: Yeah it's okay to make missiles because I feel kind
Speaker 4: of weird about.
Speaker 3: It, think that that podcast was spun. Can't why would
Speaker 3: she have an arms dealer on her show, Like I
Speaker 3: shouldn't say armstealer, arms manufacturer?
Speaker 1: Be really clear about the distinction. None of this makes
Speaker 1: any sense to me, Ami, because we're about to discuss
Speaker 1: the final Gwyneth controversy, and then we're really out tokay,
Speaker 1: as they say, right, But then the third Gwyneth controversy
Speaker 1: landed when she appeared in an ad for a luxury
Speaker 1: apartment complex called fifty one Park, which happens to be
Speaker 1: located just north of Tel Aviv in Israel. Deciding to
Speaker 1: advertise luxury apartments in Israel at this particular moment is
Speaker 1: at the very least and interesting decision. The company involved
Speaker 1: also runs a commercial real estate company in the occupied
Speaker 1: West Bank, which is about thirty kilometers away from the
Speaker 1: apartment building Gwyneth is advertising, and in fact Gaza is
Speaker 1: only about eighty kilometers from fifty one Park, So the
Speaker 1: ad itself not going to play you. A bit of
Speaker 1: it shows gwyneths getting ready in the morning early as
Speaker 1: she would. As she does, she says, even her coffee
Speaker 1: needs coffee.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really bad writing.
Speaker 1: Then she's got really her fancy active. Weear on and
Speaker 1: she goes for a run through what appears to be
Speaker 1: Central Park, and it was apparently filmed in a closed
Speaker 1: set in New York. She was there two weeks ago,
Speaker 1: not that I track her whereabouts, so maybe even as
Speaker 1: recently as that, who knows. She runs through Central Park,
Speaker 1: then she comes back to this very fancy apartment block
Speaker 1: that is all very New York coded, with a dorman
Speaker 1: and all that kind of thing. And then as she
Speaker 1: comes back out of it, someone asks her. She says,
Speaker 1: it's a reason why all great apartment buildings are built
Speaker 1: near parks. And someone says Central Park, and she says no,
Speaker 1: and then says the name of the development Israel. It
Speaker 1: is a strange ad in and of itself. And then
Speaker 1: finding out where this apartment block was, Claire, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna explore my position on Gwyneth, given that we
Speaker 1: are inextricably linked somehow. Now, but can you see any
Speaker 1: good reason for to have made these recent moves?
Speaker 5: This ad like I've seen.
Speaker 4: I saw the arugula thing, and then I missed the
Speaker 4: weapons manufacturer. And when I saw this, I thought it
Speaker 4: was AI. I thought it was I thought it was
Speaker 4: a fake because it's a very bad ad. It's a
Speaker 4: really bad because it's not a good quality ad. But
Speaker 4: the thing that just baffles me is so It was
Speaker 4: shot in New York, and she has a line where
Speaker 4: she says, there's a reason the world's most iconic buildings
Speaker 4: are by a park, fifty one park, And it's like,
Speaker 4: do we want to talk about what else this is?
Speaker 3: Bye?
Speaker 4: Like it's just so incredibly dystopian. People have said it's
Speaker 4: quite zone of interest, Like it's just it's giving a
Speaker 4: complete ignorance to what is going on in that region.
Speaker 4: And you just look at it and go, did you
Speaker 4: think about this for five minutes before you said yes?
Speaker 3: And I see why they're saying it, But it is
Speaker 3: an ad for apartment buildings and not an op ed
Speaker 3: in the newspaper.
Speaker 2: And I wonder if in doing.
Speaker 3: This very sort of shoddily made ad, Gwyneth is kind
Speaker 3: of goading us because she knows this is going to
Speaker 3: be the response, And maybe she's trying to prove some
Speaker 3: point that like, oh, I can't even make an ad anymore.
Speaker 2: I can't even make an ad.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm not doing I'm not protesting anything, I'm not
Speaker 3: writing an op ed. I'm not manufacturing arms. I know.
Speaker 1: But then when you tie it with the manufacturing arms guy,
Speaker 1: that was weird. Assuming that Gwyneth is not ignorant of
Speaker 1: what's going on in that region. There is only one explanation.
Speaker 2: Who's not ignorant of it? The weapons manufacturer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right. There is only really one explanation for
Speaker 1: her fronting this campaign, and that's that they paid her
Speaker 1: an enormous amount of money. Do we think, yes, they?
Speaker 4: I mean they must have been surely an advertise something.
Speaker 1: Well, this is what it brings us to. Right, So,
Speaker 1: assuming that Gwyneth Paltrow was offered an obscene amount of
Speaker 1: money to front this apartment block, how and why did
Speaker 1: she possibly think that this was a good idea for
Speaker 1: her brand.
Speaker 3: I think it's feature, not bug for her. I think
Speaker 3: some people would look at this and see it as
Speaker 3: the next step in Gwyneth being really savvy about which
Speaker 3: way the wind is blowing. And we are seeing a
Speaker 3: right wood turn in culture at the moment. The rich
Speaker 3: and the powerful are riching and powerful. Ng Elon Musk
Speaker 3: just this weekend became the world's first trillionaire, according to
Speaker 3: Fortune magazine, And rather than look on that as a
Speaker 3: kind of like sign of the decay of humanity.
Speaker 2: A lot of people were super happy about it.
Speaker 3: In fact, it was individual investors who put their own
Speaker 3: money into this that led to Elon Musk becoming the
Speaker 3: world's first trillionaire.
Speaker 2: So I just think we're in a moment.
Speaker 3: Where liberal doogle is seen as sort of passe, unrealistic,
Speaker 3: and it's certainly not where the money and the power is.
Speaker 1: So Gwyneth is famous for riding controversies, right she If
Speaker 1: you ever have listened to the Goop podcast, maybe not
Speaker 1: the one with the arms Deeeler, but any other, you'll
Speaker 1: actually here at the beginning of quote from Oprah, famous
Speaker 1: quote from Oprah right where she says, when you are
Speaker 1: pioneering anything or introducing new ideas to the culture, you
Speaker 1: get criticized. And then Gwyneth goes, you do, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: know anything about that, and they have a little chuckle,
Speaker 1: and I guess the idea is in. Gwyneth has said
Speaker 1: this lots of times that she believes, you know, the
Speaker 1: whole jade egg of it all, the vagina jade egg,
Speaker 1: the vagina steaming thing, those kind of controversies that she
Speaker 1: has weathered, that she has used those for publicity for
Speaker 1: Goop to kind of she now says, oh, well, I
Speaker 1: was just ahead of my time. Which is interesting to
Speaker 1: your point just then, Amelia about whether she's reading the
Speaker 1: ruins on that. But this feels different because if you
Speaker 1: now go to any of Gwyneth's posts, because as I say,
Speaker 1: she didn't post this, And there was a time, once
Speaker 1: upon a time when famous Hollywood people would go to
Speaker 1: all kinds of corners of the world and make ads
Speaker 1: for questionable things in the sort of assumption that no
Speaker 1: one who matters in inverted commas is ever going to
Speaker 1: see this ad. But those days are gone, and Gwyneth
Speaker 1: knows that, right. But if you go to Gwinnisfeed or
Speaker 1: Goop's feed, this ad is nowhere to be seen. But
Speaker 1: every comment on all her other things, so she's in
Speaker 1: New York to promote goop Eats or whatever it's called,
Speaker 1: Goop Kitchen, every comment is about this, and they are
Speaker 1: vehemently saying, you know, calling her names, as I alluded
Speaker 1: to in the intro, like it has overtaken her brand
Speaker 1: for a moment, and putting aside the actual ethics of
Speaker 1: I mean, she's the one who says my husband is
Speaker 1: the best person in the world and he's really progressive,
Speaker 1: putting aside. I know, it's very hard to do that,
Speaker 1: putting aside the ethics of whether or not you should
Speaker 1: do this. Isn't this just a stupid idea for someone
Speaker 1: who's trying to sell us salads?
Speaker 2: You mean cheese?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yes, that's right.
Speaker 4: She said before in a Harvard Business School lecture that basically,
Speaker 4: like part of her strategy is to have these viral
Speaker 4: uproars and then monetize those eyeballs, and in a twenty
Speaker 4: eighteen New York Times profile, the author wrote, Goop has
Speaker 4: learnt to do a special kind of dark art to
Speaker 4: coral the vitriol of the internet and the ever present
Speaker 4: shall we call it cultural ambivalence about Gwyneth Paltrow herself
Speaker 4: and turn them into cash. The thing I'm interested in
Speaker 4: here is, I mean, it's so the anger is obviously
Speaker 4: just so predictable what people are going to say. And
Speaker 4: there are countless op eds, and there are countless TikTok
Speaker 4: analyses of this ad, and I mean just really interesting
Speaker 4: points about having a luxury apartment. Bloh, where the level
Speaker 4: of luxury there's a Pilates pool. I'm like, I didn't,
Speaker 4: I had to google what a Pilartes's pool was. The
Speaker 4: level of luxury next to like, not far from where
Speaker 4: one point seven million people are starving and sick and
Speaker 4: it's horrific and homeless and homeless, and for her to
Speaker 4: not see that contrast is so bizarre. But then at
Speaker 4: the same time it tracks with the with the brand
Speaker 4: of kind of unapologetic privilege. And I wonder if because
Speaker 4: she is blonde and because she is beautiful, she is
Speaker 4: immune from people seeing her as dangerous.
Speaker 5: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: I think the opposite in a way. I because as
Speaker 1: somebody who and I want to be clear about something here.
Speaker 1: I often say this on the show, and I know
Speaker 1: not everybody agrees or can get a handle on it.
Speaker 1: I am really interested in lots of people who I
Speaker 1: disagree with, right, so I don't when is one of
Speaker 1: those public figures, pop culture figures who fascinates me. It
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean I love her, that I like her,
Speaker 1: that I endorse her, but she's someone I can't look
Speaker 1: away from. And I don't think you have to agree
Speaker 1: with everybody's politics in order to, you know, find them interesting.
Speaker 1: But the thing about this is this shows exactly that
Speaker 1: Gwynneth is exactly who everybody said she was. Do you
Speaker 1: know what I mean the people who have always thought
Speaker 1: she's just a blonde, privileged, dangerous person. Perhaps that people
Speaker 1: have been saying that about Gwyneth for a very long time,
Speaker 1: and people like me go, oh but Jade Eggs lol.
Speaker 1: You know, but this, this level of tone deafness, confirms
Speaker 1: all of those that.
Speaker 3: You said before. Does she not see the contrast? You
Speaker 3: just use the word tone deaf. I don't think that
Speaker 3: either of those is right, because I think that that
Speaker 3: implies that like she's made a mistake or an error.
Speaker 3: But she is not making an error or a mistake.
Speaker 3: She is not just failing to see the contrast or
Speaker 3: failing to understand this is torn to She wants to
Speaker 3: do this and the reason why she wants to do
Speaker 3: it is because what she's always been best at is
Speaker 3: reading the room, and the room right now loves money
Speaker 3: and power above all else.
Speaker 2: And by room, I guess I mean consumers.
Speaker 3: I guess I mean American consumers, if I'm going to
Speaker 3: drill down on it more specifically.
Speaker 1: And she has been turning for it, so Hollywood generally,
Speaker 1: I mean, certainly gets criticism from President Trump for this
Speaker 1: was always generally considered to be smaller liberal. You know
Speaker 1: and progressive and creative. The creative community is all assumed,
Speaker 1: and Gwyneth has been positioning herself away from that for
Speaker 1: quite a long time. I've listened to interviews with her
Speaker 1: where she's talked about how fascinated she is by billionaires
Speaker 1: and founders and tech people and all that stuff, and
Speaker 1: that she clearly sees herself moving in those circles now, Amelia,
Speaker 1: So you're absolutely right. Also, people like me who once
Speaker 1: were like, oh, I find her interesting whatever, now going oh,
Speaker 1: I don't think So that's not her concern because she knows,
Speaker 1: to Amelia's point, that the people who are commenting on
Speaker 1: Instagram do not really have any power, but the people
Speaker 1: who are building luxury apartment blocks wherever the hell they want,
Speaker 1: all over the world do. And interestingly, the the agency
Speaker 1: who put this ad together put a note on LinkedIn
Speaker 1: saying to bring this architectural masterpiece to the Israeli audience,
Speaker 1: because that tells you this ad is for an Israeli audience,
Speaker 1: not for the world. We needed a figure who effortlessly
Speaker 1: embodied international elegance, a premium lifestyle, an uncompromising quality, enter
Speaker 1: Academy Award, Emmy and Golden Globe winner Gwyneth Poultra.
Speaker 3: I think you could also be for Americans, by the way,
Speaker 3: in addition to Israelis. And I think that there's a
Speaker 3: reason why they're trying to conflate New York and tell
Speaker 3: Aviva that ad. But I think that she's not just
Speaker 3: similar to Anana wind Tour in that, you know, Anna
Speaker 3: Winter back in the day said I'm never going to
Speaker 3: put Kim kardashi In on the cover of Vogue, and
Speaker 3: then the winds changed and everyone became obsessed with Kim Kardashian.
Speaker 3: She puts her on the cover of Vogue, and more recently,
Speaker 3: Lauren Sanchez Bezos has been on the cover of Vogue
Speaker 3: and her wedding was covered extensively.
Speaker 2: These people who.
Speaker 3: Who kind of set and defined the culture, this is
Speaker 3: what they do. I mean, I'm not I'm not casting
Speaker 3: a judgment on it either way. I'm just saying that
Speaker 3: this is what they're good at, is kind of drawing
Speaker 3: out what's being left unsaid and making it making it in.
Speaker 4: I think the cultural point that we're at right now,
Speaker 4: where people love to criticize, cancel culture, there's power in
Speaker 4: like the backlash to the backlash. Yeah, so the fact
Speaker 4: that she's done this ad everybody who you know knows
Speaker 4: what's going on in that region says, Gwyneth, what the fuck?
Speaker 4: And then people say, oh, it's just all the work people.
Speaker 4: She can't even do an age, can't even say that strategy.
Speaker 5: It's like, that's that's part of the that's part of
Speaker 5: the market.
Speaker 1: Surely though, there's an element here. Then She's just launched
Speaker 1: Groop Kitchen in the New York We talked about it
Speaker 1: the other week because I said I would love to
Speaker 1: eat one of those salads, and one of our friends
Speaker 1: who lives and works in New York's had me a
Speaker 1: message confirming they were, in fact delicious. Surely this does
Speaker 1: hurt that kind of market New York hipsters who are
Speaker 1: excited about eating Goop Kitchen. Me as a basic, a
Speaker 1: basic person, I'm now like, no, I don't know about
Speaker 1: the salads. Now, Gwynn, I think this is the armstealer
Speaker 1: on the podcast really pushed me.
Speaker 3: I won't have you malign the second trunk Trump administration
Speaker 3: is so different to the first in terms of how
Speaker 3: the US has kind of metabolized it.
Speaker 2: Like the first was the pussy.
Speaker 3: Hats and the outrage and Melanie as I don't care,
Speaker 3: do you coat? And that you know every scandal would
Speaker 3: would bring it a predictable outrage and controversy with it.
Speaker 3: But this administration, people are tired. I think a lot
Speaker 3: of Americans have tuned out of politics altogether, and I
Speaker 3: think they see Gwyneth Israel controversy and they think, I
Speaker 3: just want my rocket salad.
Speaker 4: After the break. Is swimming in the open ocean going
Speaker 4: to be a thing of the past for Australians. Just
Speaker 4: after eleven am on Saturday morning, a thirty five year
Speaker 4: old woman was bitten by a shark while swimming about
Speaker 4: thirty meters from the shore at Sydney's popular Cuji Beach.
Speaker 4: Witnesses say the shark was three to four meters, with
Speaker 4: experts suspecting that it was a great white, which is
Speaker 4: incredibly rare in the area. The woman was airlifted to
Speaker 4: hospital and is currently in critical condition. It follows a
Speaker 4: spate of shark bites earlier this year, including a two
Speaker 4: day period in January where there were four reported shark
Speaker 4: encounters on Australia's East coast, including the fatality of a
Speaker 4: twelve year old boy in Sydney Harbor. But at the
Speaker 4: end of that week. The message to the public was
Speaker 4: very much about the conditions of the water, so we
Speaker 4: were told there were heavy rains in the previous days
Speaker 4: that contributes to dirtier, murkier water, as well as sewerage
Speaker 4: which attracts baitfish and ultimately sharks. That plus the fact
Speaker 4: that it was summer, the warm water temperature that created
Speaker 4: ideal conditions for the bull sharks believed to be responsible
Speaker 4: for those attacks. But this attack on Saturday was unique
Speaker 4: and different. It was clear water, it was winter, it
Speaker 4: was a great white. In the last month alone, a
Speaker 4: thirty five year old man died while spearfishing near Albany
Speaker 4: in Western Australia, a Perth father died at Rotnest Island,
Speaker 4: and a thirty nine year old spearfisher died south of Cans.
Speaker 4: Australia has the second highest number of recorded shark incidents globally,
Speaker 4: averaging twenty two bites per year, and as Julia Baird
Speaker 4: wrote for the ABC back in January, the odds have
Speaker 4: been killed by a shark in Australia is about one
Speaker 4: in eight million, and yet it feels a lot more
Speaker 4: likely right now. Predictably, there are lots of conversations about
Speaker 4: what's going to happen next. This is just such a
Speaker 4: shocking story and so seemingly random and out of the
Speaker 4: blue that there are calls for culs even though we
Speaker 4: know that there's no clear evidence that they work and
Speaker 4: that Great whites are endangered. But there have been some
Speaker 4: interesting suggestions from academic and author Chris peppin nef So
Speaker 4: he actually submitted an op ed to a big paper
Speaker 4: he said, didn't specify which one, with some suggestions of
Speaker 4: what he thinks needs to happen it and it got rejected.
Speaker 4: And he also had some suggestions for Mossman City Council
Speaker 4: after those January attacks, and they were also dismissed. So
Speaker 4: a couple of his suggestions are temp prairie enclosures, so
Speaker 4: when people go to the beach, particularly something like Nippers,
Speaker 4: that there would be an enclosure where people get to
Speaker 4: swim safely. He also said basically for the rest of
Speaker 4: twenty twenty six that people should know if they're swimming
Speaker 4: in the open water, they're swimming at.
Speaker 5: Their own risk.
Speaker 4: And then he had some interesting ideas about shark deterrent technology. Holly,
Speaker 4: you're a beach person used to live at Kuji. How
Speaker 4: has this story changed your idea of getting in the ocean.
Speaker 1: Look, I think, I mean, I don't want to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: we've swim there all the time, but we obviously have
Speaker 1: swum there all the time, and so it does feel
Speaker 1: close to home and it's so traumatic. I just one
Speaker 1: of the things about shark attacks we all know this
Speaker 1: is they strike a very deep cord in people. It's
Speaker 1: a very very primal fear. So although the statistics, as
Speaker 1: you mentioned, Claire, the likelihood of it happening to you
Speaker 1: is small. It's such a traumatic event, and it's not
Speaker 1: only traumatic for the person involved, but for everybody who
Speaker 1: witnessed it, for the brave people who are first responders.
Speaker 1: For like, it's a very deep fear for very obvious reasons.
Speaker 1: I know that the Culgi community is obviously really really rattled,
Speaker 1: that there is a lot of support for people who
Speaker 1: were there that day. The thing that I have found
Speaker 1: really interesting in the changing conversation around sharks is that
Speaker 1: we've got to move on from and I think that
Speaker 1: we are moving on from. You either kill them or
Speaker 1: you don't kill you know, like, you either kill all
Speaker 1: the sharks, make the ocean safe or it's just have
Speaker 1: at it. I think that these discussions about getting more
Speaker 1: sharks smart in the way that some parts of Australia,
Speaker 1: for example, are croc smart or all of these is
Speaker 1: really interesting and important. What pepin Nef said that was interesting.
Speaker 1: So if you know Culdie, well, they used to once
Speaker 1: upon a time in the twenties and thirties, they had
Speaker 1: a shark net, so they had a peer that went
Speaker 1: out and then there was a shark enclosure, and lots
Speaker 1: of harbor beaches still have shark enclosures. And I think
Speaker 1: that the pier was damaged by a storm back in
Speaker 1: the day and the shark the enclosure is gone. And
Speaker 1: obviously now we have nets, but the debts come up
Speaker 1: in April. They are also imperfect. They also catch a
Speaker 1: lot of other animals that aren't the target of the debts,
Speaker 1: so they're not a perfect solution. It feels like the
Speaker 1: idea of returning to enclosures, and he was talking about
Speaker 1: some that are temporary. You can roll them out and
Speaker 1: pull them back in again again. They won't be perfect,
Speaker 1: but that they will give some semblance of safety is
Speaker 1: a smart one. I know that western Australia has a
Speaker 1: government scheme where surfers and fishermen and swimmers who buy
Speaker 1: shark deterrent technology can get it rebated by the government.
Speaker 1: Apparently that's really popular and I think that this awareness
Speaker 1: is what we have to move to because although the
Speaker 1: statistics are small, there is no argument that it is
Speaker 1: that these shark incidents are increasing. Some people don't like
Speaker 1: them being called shark attacks because it suggests that then
Speaker 1: it says suggest shark was attacking. Yeah, and they say
Speaker 1: shark bites, but that they are increasing and there are
Speaker 1: lots of factors to that. Lots of people talk about it.
Speaker 1: Is it rising water temperature, is it overfishing, is it
Speaker 1: a whole lot of different things. Whatever it is, they
Speaker 1: are increasing, not just in Sydney but all over Australia
Speaker 1: and it feels like a conversation that needs to be had,
Speaker 1: This idea of at your own risk. I don't know, Amelia.
Speaker 1: In that video he says that this is America's approach
Speaker 1: generally speaking. Is that did you know?
Speaker 3: I don't quite know what he meant by that, but
Speaker 3: I do think that that point he makes that Australians
Speaker 3: have to reevaluate their relationship with the water and with
Speaker 3: this national pastime really is a confronting one, and I
Speaker 3: think it goes beyond shark awareness.
Speaker 2: I think, as you allude to in the intro.
Speaker 3: Claire, we thought we had a grasp on shark awareness
Speaker 3: in January, we check that box. Okay, no brackish water,
Speaker 3: don't go in after it's been raining, Maybe don't do
Speaker 3: it at dusk or at dawn where shark activity is higher,
Speaker 3: and just be aware that they are. There are greater
Speaker 3: numbers of them now that the water is warming due
Speaker 3: to in all likelihood climate change. So we thought, okay,
Speaker 3: we've got it now, that's how we be shark that's
Speaker 3: how we can be shark aware. But as you pointed out,
Speaker 3: this particular bite and why it's been so shocking is
Speaker 3: it doesn't seem to meet those criteria. It was colder
Speaker 3: water a different shark now, but a colder water, clear water,
Speaker 3: and not at dawn or dusk. So what I think
Speaker 3: is confronting for Australians is the idea that for many
Speaker 3: of us, going for a swim is kind of a
Speaker 3: it feels like a national entitlement. It just feels like
Speaker 3: what we do and we shouldn't have to think too
Speaker 3: hard about it. And it's our birthright. I guess that's
Speaker 3: the word I need to use for it. It is
Speaker 3: so intertwined with our national identity for so many Australians.
Speaker 3: We are a very urbanized society and most of us
Speaker 3: do hug the coast in some way. So I think
Speaker 3: the idea that we have to look at this carefree
Speaker 3: national birth right is something that we now have to
Speaker 3: figure out how to coexist with other creatures that also
Speaker 3: enjoy the water. That just like gets to the heart
Speaker 3: of what many people think it means to be Australian.
Speaker 2: I get why that's confronting. As sensible as it is.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because down where I live on the South Coast,
Speaker 1: big sharks, cold water, et cetera. You know, you're kind
Speaker 1: of aware of that, but they've just installed a shark
Speaker 1: bite kit at our beach and I've never seen that before.
Speaker 4: I think they've done that at I think after January
Speaker 4: they did that at a lot of a lot of
Speaker 4: maybe even all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they're being rolled out across New South Wales
Speaker 1: at least. I'm sure the States have something similar. And
Speaker 1: when you first see that, it's a little bit jarring,
Speaker 1: you're like, because it's basically a trauma kit and it's
Speaker 1: attached to a pole near the beach in the same
Speaker 1: way that if you're in var North Queensland there's often
Speaker 1: a jellyfish station. Obviously there's a practical application to that,
Speaker 1: but it's also just this push towards making us all
Speaker 1: a bit more aware.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but also changing our relationship to the water. I
Speaker 3: think that's what Chris is calling for, Chris Peppinneff, and
Speaker 3: I think that's probably why the major newspaper turned him down,
Speaker 3: because we're not ready.
Speaker 2: To hear that.
Speaker 4: But what's scary is that at the same time, this
Speaker 4: is so so so unlikely and so uncommon, and sometimes
Speaker 4: I even in January, I remember, like the information is
Speaker 4: so important about how the oceans work and what kind
Speaker 4: of attracts sharks and all of that. But I do
Speaker 4: worry that sometimes when these conversations come.
Speaker 1: Up, that it.
Speaker 4: Erases the randomness of it, like the fact that this
Speaker 4: woman did nothing wrong, she didn't do anything irresponsible, she
Speaker 4: did not like and it's just a thing that can happen, Buddy,
Speaker 4: is still incredibly, incredibly, incredibly unlikely, and so that idea
Speaker 4: of changing our relationship with the ocean. I'm like, I
Speaker 4: don't know if that's if that's fully necessary.
Speaker 1: But that's what's interesting about this debate, isn't It is like,
Speaker 1: I agree with you, but I feel like I also
Speaker 1: feel like we shouldn't kid ourselves. If when I first
Speaker 1: moved to Australia from England, I thought that every beach
Speaker 1: was full of sharks, right, was that was the perception
Speaker 1: I had? I was like, who would ever go swimming
Speaker 1: in Australia? Like we all know that's where the great
Speaker 1: Whites live? Like we all know that. And then obviously
Speaker 1: I've lived here for thirty years, put near the coast
Speaker 1: nearly all of that time, and you get very, oh, well,
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen. And it used to be all the
Speaker 1: time in a city like Sydney, and I know it's
Speaker 1: different in different places, but people would say there hasn't
Speaker 1: be an attack in Sydney, for you can't say that anymore.
Speaker 1: Like it is happening with increased frequency, without question. And
Speaker 1: I think that that push and pull between not wanting
Speaker 1: to change something fundamentally that's about us, and also being
Speaker 1: aware that the change circumstances of our world have increased
Speaker 1: a risk is a fair enough conversation to have. Of course,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that anybody was doing anything wrong. I mean,
Speaker 1: there'll be a lot of conversations already are about in
Speaker 1: this such because for people who aren't familiar with Sydney's beaches,
Speaker 1: Couldie is a very, generally speaking, a very flat, very
Speaker 1: calm beach. It's a bay, and the water that day,
Speaker 1: as you've said, was crystal clear. The footage of this
Speaker 1: alleged to be this shark. Afterwards you kind of going,
Speaker 1: how did nobody do that thing coming? But of course
Speaker 1: it's also winter and the beaches aren't as patrolled as
Speaker 1: theys are, and there'll be lots of questions about that.
Speaker 1: But I think that it's kind of we can't kid
Speaker 1: ourselves that what's happening isn't happening, do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean?
Speaker 4: But for example, probably what we should be more scared of,
Speaker 4: more aware of, is getting caught in a rip for example,
Speaker 4: Like that's a lot more common. But it's interesting that
Speaker 4: the way that our brains were the idea of being
Speaker 4: bitten by a shark is just so terrifying, and so
Speaker 4: it just really gets you that you then think like
Speaker 4: the cost of that is so huge that we kind
Speaker 4: of amplify the probability.
Speaker 3: I think it is changing to Holly's point, like, I agree,
Speaker 3: but things are changing and the conception you have is
Speaker 3: from a prior time. The other thing I'd say is rips.
Speaker 3: At least in New South Wales schools, kids get taught
Speaker 3: about rips in YU one in classrooms and we haven't
Speaker 3: been in denial about the rip dangers, and of course
Speaker 3: that still means that it's an ever present danger that
Speaker 3: we have to be aware of. But kids, we're doing
Speaker 3: a pretty good job I think of educating kids about rips.
Speaker 1: It's interesting about risk evaluation too, is that I mean,
Speaker 1: anyone who spends any time on the coast in Australia
Speaker 1: knows that the shark alarm can go off and the
Speaker 1: surface will stay. So I mean, I know that's a
Speaker 1: massive generalization and I'm not criticizing, but what I'm saying
Speaker 1: is people have their own risk assessments, right, and people
Speaker 1: who are very familiar with the water and spend a
Speaker 1: lot of time in it are sort of more confident
Speaker 1: and aware of certain things. And I wonder if that
Speaker 1: will continue to be the case but for those of
Speaker 1: us who are not water babies as such, like who
Speaker 1: maybe need a little more handholding in what risks are like.
Speaker 1: I think enclosures, I think ocean pools are going to
Speaker 1: be very very busy.
Speaker 3: Yes, except Holly, I hate to say it. At my
Speaker 3: local beach in the shark free enclosure, there was a
Speaker 3: shark recently cited.
Speaker 2: Things are changing.
Speaker 1: At the time we're recording this, we've just found out
Speaker 1: that the woman who was bitten by the shark at
Speaker 1: Cujie on Saturday is Leah Stewart. She's thirty five, she's
Speaker 1: from Cougie, She's a passionate swimmer, she's got a little child,
Speaker 1: and she's in hospital. At the time we're recording this,
Speaker 1: she's still in a critical but stable condition, and I
Speaker 1: know that we're not alone in sending all our love
Speaker 1: and support to her and her family as we're discussing
Speaker 1: this terrible.
Speaker 3: Incident after the break. Have the Beckhams overplayed their hand
Speaker 3: this time? I'm bringing some scarriless silliness because we had
Speaker 3: to have Holly talk about Gwyneth. But another very important
Speaker 3: character in the Holy Universe had a big weekend. It
Speaker 3: happened because Sir David was being honored with a star
Speaker 3: on the Hollywood Walk of Fame and Lady.
Speaker 2: Vicky was there. She was looking lovely in a kind
Speaker 2: of midnight blue dress, would you describe it that way.
Speaker 3: Or at least ten pm blue ten pm blue, And
Speaker 3: she was very funny and adorable in her speech.
Speaker 2: Let's hear a little bit of what she said.
Speaker 6: Growing up in England, the Hollywood Walk of Fame was
Speaker 6: one of those iconic things that you only saw in films,
Speaker 6: a way of immortalizing people who had succeeded in their
Speaker 6: fields and truly left their mark. So naturally, I assumed
Speaker 6: I was coming here today to receive my star for
Speaker 6: my part in that iconic cult classic Spice Wild, the movie.
Speaker 3: She's very funny, Vicky, she Lady VICKI. And of course
Speaker 3: Tom Cruise was there. Of course, I mean I was
Speaker 3: a little bit surprised, but I guess he got the
Speaker 3: Vicams in the Top Divorce.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he and Beckham are bessies. And during the tomcat era,
Speaker 1: and that's when David and Victoria lived in La because
Speaker 1: David was playing for La Galaxy. The four of them
Speaker 1: would hang out all the time with Eva Longoria as
Speaker 1: well and they were always out. Katie and Vicki were
Speaker 1: always out shopping, and Tom and David were always hanging
Speaker 1: out at football games and stuff. And clearly Katie was
Speaker 1: not there on Saturday, but Tom was, and he looked
Speaker 1: very coase.
Speaker 3: We really drawn as to who I would rather get
Speaker 3: in that divorce, because Katie's my star I like on
Speaker 3: but Tom is the last great movie star, so I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 2: It's a tough one.
Speaker 1: She might have good gossip like behind it, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, unless he.
Speaker 2: Probably like doesn't drink margaritas.
Speaker 3: I feel like.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know her NDA probably covers post margarita conversations,
Speaker 1: but I would love to try to get around it anyway.
Speaker 2: So David got his star.
Speaker 3: That was lovely, But what happened afterwards is what got
Speaker 3: tongues wagging. Brooklyn has a house in La I refer
Speaker 3: to the Beckham Son and not the borough of New York.
Speaker 2: Brooklyn has a house in la He.
Speaker 3: Also has one in Miami, obviously, but he has this
Speaker 3: sixteen million dollar mansion in this ultra exclusive Truesdale Estates
Speaker 3: neighborhood of Beverly Hills. So just after the ceremony, it's
Speaker 3: still in her lovely pink slip dress. Fourteen year old
Speaker 3: Harper Becks pops over to his house to well, it's
Speaker 3: a bit unclear what to do. She wanted to see him?
Speaker 3: I guess maybe deliver a handwritten note, pick up a mascara,
Speaker 3: perhaps that she left there a year ago.
Speaker 2: We don't quite know.
Speaker 3: But what is clear is that the whole thing was
Speaker 3: caught on camera and then run in page six. So Brooklyn,
Speaker 3: who was not at home but was instead at one
Speaker 3: of his other mansions, he was reached out to for
Speaker 3: comment about his sister's visit, and his rep said that
Speaker 3: photographers were in place as the letter was hand delivered,
Speaker 3: says it all this was choreographed for the cameras. I
Speaker 3: am the emoji with its face in its hands right now.
Speaker 3: How could Victoria think this was a good idea? And
Speaker 3: Harper is fourteen years old? Holly, am I missing something?
Speaker 1: So the reason we know this, as Amelia says, is
Speaker 1: that the paparazzi images of it have been splashed across
Speaker 1: the internet. And we always say we don't do as
Speaker 1: Papa actually imagery, but there it has become part of
Speaker 1: the story because Brooklyn is saying that was not an accident.
Speaker 1: That's what he's saying. And what is kind of clear
Speaker 1: in the Beckham universe is that Harper is moving into
Speaker 1: main character position.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: We've know she's got the skincare line coming up with
Speaker 1: that's been discussed. She was very prominent obviously at this
Speaker 1: she's I mean, for a start, if it was staged,
Speaker 1: that's kind of terrible.
Speaker 2: Are you seriously still saying if like that was staged?
Speaker 1: Well, do you think so definitely? Do you think one
Speaker 1: hundred percent? Or do you think so. One of the
Speaker 1: way the book, the way that Beckham's will will present
Speaker 1: this side, and they won't say anything publicly, but there
Speaker 1: will be leaks through their reps, is that Harper desperately
Speaker 1: misses her brother. This is the idea, This is the narrative, right,
Speaker 1: Harper was very tight with Brooklyn, as she is with
Speaker 1: her other two brothers who were at the Walk of Fame,
Speaker 1: and that she just wanted to reach out to him.
Speaker 3: There are two signs to me that it was staged.
Speaker 3: The first is that she was wearing, as I mentioned earlier,
Speaker 3: the same pink slip dress that she wore at the
Speaker 3: Walk of Fame event, and the Beckhams know the power
Speaker 3: of dress. If she really wanted to just go there
Speaker 3: and be surreptitious, she might have changed into something less formal.
Speaker 3: But she wanted to be. She wanted everyone to say
Speaker 3: that's Harper Beckham because I just saw her half an
Speaker 3: hour ago at that event where the world's cameras ran, and.
Speaker 4: This poor girl from who lives in England is in
Speaker 4: LA for such a short time and she's using that
Speaker 4: opportunity to go to her brothers.
Speaker 3: The second, the second thing that tells me its stage.
Speaker 3: No one in Los Angeles has to walk anywhere.
Speaker 2: No one.
Speaker 3: The fact that we saw her walking down the street.
Speaker 3: There are no footpaths in Los Angeles because it pulled,
Speaker 3: not walk. So the fact that we saw her walking
Speaker 3: down a street in Los Angeles seems that she wanted
Speaker 3: to be.
Speaker 1: She was dropped off by a car, but not close
Speaker 1: enough to the gate that she didn't have to walk.
Speaker 1: That is interesting, Claire, is this how we do family?
Speaker 1: But like, is there a world where she's texting Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: She's like, I really want to come by and see
Speaker 1: you and Nicola are you home? Crickets? Because they're not talking,
Speaker 1: so she's just like I'm gonna go pop.
Speaker 4: In well what I thought was interesting. And again why
Speaker 4: the kind of the only reason the paparazziiness of it
Speaker 4: all has has become relevant.
Speaker 5: Is because those photos were released.
Speaker 4: And then Brooklyn shared to his Instagram story a photo
Speaker 4: of him in New York and he tagged the location
Speaker 4: like the fact that he was in New York going
Speaker 4: for a run. And so his point, without saying it,
Speaker 4: was like, I'm not even there. They knew I was,
Speaker 4: They knew I wasn't there. And this does add a
Speaker 4: lot of credibility to Brooklyn's long running argument that everything
Speaker 4: his family does is a performance and that it's not
Speaker 4: about they. They don't care about him the human. They
Speaker 4: care about the image of the Beckham family. And I
Speaker 4: think your theory, Holly, that Harper is kind of meant
Speaker 4: to be emerging as the new main character of this
Speaker 4: family is very true because the other the two brothers
Speaker 4: have Romeo and Romeo and Cruse and I think it's
Speaker 4: Cruise in particular, have been a bit like just taking
Speaker 4: a piss out of Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: They have, They've been being a bit harsh about it.
Speaker 4: Yes, they've been kind of posting.
Speaker 1: Just and Cruises a rockstar now side.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's a bit cool for Brookie. But I just
Speaker 4: think this was so orchestrated and that it really really
Speaker 4: makes it. I think this looks so bad for the
Speaker 4: Beckham I've heard that.
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of critiques saying that that they
Speaker 1: overreached that Vicky because everyone always assumes that it's Victoria
Speaker 1: who's the mastermind of this, because of course they do,
Speaker 1: because she's a woman and she's a mother, and why
Speaker 1: wouldn't she be But it could be David for all
Speaker 1: we know. Look, if it was orchestrated, I want more.
Speaker 1: If it was orchestrated, I want Victoria crying at the
Speaker 1: gates of the mansion. I want her holding on to
Speaker 1: the rails of the gate and shaking them and being like.
Speaker 3: Brooklyn, why won't you come to our own walk of frame?
Speaker 1: Thing like maybe harpers to live in her own life.
Speaker 1: Maybe she's making her own rules. Maybe she's like mom
Speaker 1: and dad. I don't care what you say. I'm going
Speaker 1: to see Brooklyn. He needs to know.
Speaker 2: And she just felt like taking a walk down a street.
Speaker 1: In whichever way this rolls out, it's not good for
Speaker 1: them because everyone was kind of it was dying down.
Speaker 1: You know, it was five months since Brooklyn Beckham made
Speaker 1: that famous and earth shattering Instagram series of posts about
Speaker 1: how he felt about his family, including the allegation, of course,
Speaker 1: that Victoria Beckham danced on him at his wedding party.
Speaker 1: That was five months ago. We've had a documentary since then.
Speaker 1: Beckham's got his Walk of Fame?
Speaker 2: But what is he? An actor? Can we just pause
Speaker 2: on that? Why does he have?
Speaker 4: Isn't that ba actually great point? I meant to challenge,
Speaker 4: does David Beckham have a star online?
Speaker 1: I think probably because of his documentary?
Speaker 2: Well, you also buy those stars for yourself.
Speaker 3: So I guess they figured they were going to have
Speaker 3: this big weekend in LA and they couldn't not address
Speaker 3: the issue.
Speaker 2: Is that it?
Speaker 4: I would say, I'm kind of with Victoria that she's
Speaker 4: more deserving.
Speaker 5: I actually think.
Speaker 4: Like, sorry, put all the Brooklyn stuff aside. She was
Speaker 4: this WHTS girl.
Speaker 1: She should be on that.
Speaker 2: Walk you in Sport right now? Is this some moment
Speaker 2: for a heart take from you?
Speaker 5: Pick a ball?
Speaker 1: I feel like we're going to see it. It's really
Speaker 1: funny how any time an English person is in LA
Speaker 1: they're always like, oh did Prince Harry go one of
Speaker 1: the likes. It's like William loves Beckham. Harry didn't go
Speaker 1: to the Walk of Fame. The football and World Cup
Speaker 1: is on, but Harry was in New York. You know
Speaker 1: he was in San Antonio watching the basketball. Okay, I
Speaker 1: he wasn't in the front row. People have been writing
Speaker 1: about that too. Look, BRIT's in America having a hard time.
Speaker 2: But use some sunscreen. That's all I have to say.
Speaker 2: I want to give that Sonny out there.
Speaker 1: I want to give poor old Harper the benefits of doubt.
Speaker 5: I will say, I do think.
Speaker 1: She's only fourteen.
Speaker 3: Why it's calling She is only fourteen, and your parents
Speaker 3: still advise you, at the very least when you're fourteen,
Speaker 3: And at the very least someone didn't say to her,
Speaker 3: if indeed this was all on her own initiative, you
Speaker 3: know what?
Speaker 2: Love Maybe not?
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe let's do something a bit more low key.
Speaker 5: I will say.
Speaker 4: The sibling estrangement breaks my heart. Like parent estrangement with
Speaker 4: parents is obviously always sad, but siblings. I just think, oh, Brookie.
Speaker 1: Maybe Brooklyn should open the bloody gate to his Maybe
Speaker 1: he should be in LA and he should open the
Speaker 1: gate to his sister.
Speaker 4: I think he needs to call Harper out loud.
Speaker 1: Is that is all we have time for on today's show.
Speaker 1: Please remember that we have subscriber episodes twice a week
Speaker 1: on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Plus of course, subscribers get access
Speaker 1: to exclusive stories online and to our exercise app Move,
Speaker 1: including Move walk just for half a back
Speaker 4: Bye Bye Bye Mummyer acknowledges the traditional owners of the
Speaker 4: land on which we've recorded this podcast.