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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hey, out louders, it's Saturday,

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Speaker 2: which means another episode of Parenting out Loud, your weekly

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Speaker 2: dose of culture savvy conversation parents actually want. Amelia Lester,

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Speaker 2: Stacy Hicks and I break down what parents are thinking

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Speaker 2: about from the zeitgeist, the news cycle, and trending momtop conversations.

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Speaker 2: It's smart shark takes with zero sugarcoating. This is episode three,

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Speaker 2: and it's the last time we're going to be gate

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Speaker 2: crashing this feed, so we bid you adieu. But before

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Speaker 2: we go, I've got something to ask. If you want

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Speaker 2: to support this show and keep it going, I mean,

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Speaker 2: we would love that. I've got a favor. It's going

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Speaker 2: to take you about three seconds. Pick up your phone,

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Speaker 2: search your Parenting out Loud in your podcast feed, and

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Speaker 2: hit the plus button. Hit the follow button, because that's

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Speaker 2: where our new show home is going to be. It's

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Speaker 2: going to be in Parenting out Loud, So hit follow

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Speaker 2: and be part of our smart parent squad every week. Okay,

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Speaker 2: without further ado, here's episode three of a brand new

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Speaker 2: season of Parenting Out Loud. Welcome to Parenting out Loud.

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Speaker 2: This is the podcast for parents who don't always listen

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Speaker 2: to parenting podcasts. It's the culture, it's the trends, it's

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Speaker 2: a zeitgeist, it's Marbo, it's the vibe. I'm Monique Bolli,

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Speaker 2: I'm Amelia Lastra and I love that Castle shout out,

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Speaker 2: and I am Stacey Higgs. First up, Thank you for

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Speaker 2: all the years. On last week's show, so many of

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Speaker 2: you dming us people loving it sick and heaps of

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Speaker 2: non parents just here for it. So we love that.

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Speaker 2: And Ladies number two on the Apple Charts.

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Speaker 1: I love that. That seems huge. Are we stars now?

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Speaker 3: I think we are.

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Speaker 2: We've made it fine Diary of a CEO, which feels

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Speaker 2: so validating because in twenty twenty five, parenting culture has

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Speaker 2: become like an intense startup, right.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and both cultures lack sleep.

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Speaker 3: I feel that's true. Yeah, you're giving your all and

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Speaker 3: not getting a lot time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, both cultures relentless. Coming up on today's show, K

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Speaker 2: Pop Demon Hunters, you might have heard it rippling through

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Speaker 2: the culture. We're going to talk about why it's so huge.

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Speaker 1: Men parent or tracking apps are booming, but do children

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Speaker 1: have a right to privacy? I really want to get

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Speaker 1: into this sauny debate with you, and a man has

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Speaker 1: made a case for why we should be having kids younger,

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Speaker 1: and he actually might convince.

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Speaker 3: You it's a good idea. Maybe maybe we'll.

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Speaker 2: See, But first, did you guys see Anne Hathaway gentle

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Speaker 2: parent the paparazzi? I feel like this. I saw this

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Speaker 2: video on Instagram a few times. It's been viewed over

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Speaker 2: sixty million times. She was on the set of The

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Speaker 2: Devil Wears prior to Too, which has had a lot

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Speaker 2: of paparazzi interest, Like there's things being leaked from set,

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Speaker 2: there's lots of images coming out. But on this particular day,

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Speaker 2: the paparazzi pack were bickering and she walked over. She

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Speaker 2: had this big smile and just completely diffuse the situation.

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Speaker 1: You're going to have to give a like a reenactment,

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Speaker 1: mons like, what was she doing? Calm zen Master.

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Speaker 2: We can't play this on the show because Muma Mia

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Speaker 2: does not endorse paparazzi shots or videos. So I'm going

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Speaker 2: to explain to you instead, she walks over to the pack.

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Speaker 2: She has an open palm. She has a very calm

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Speaker 2: and present stance, and she says, you guys have got

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Speaker 2: to relax. There are children on set today. Does everybody

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Speaker 2: know there are children on set? So everyone's going to relax.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna have a very nice day because we have children.

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Speaker 2: It was very calm, very demure, very okay. Everyone's having

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Speaker 2: some feelings right now, but this is the boundary. And

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Speaker 2: it was so fantastic. I tried it on my own

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Speaker 2: kids as well today, like it worked. It worked on

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Speaker 2: my four year old. It also worked on the paparazzi.

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Speaker 2: They all sort of diffused and said, oh, yes, thank you, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: I feel like Anne Hathaway was born to gentle parents.

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Speaker 1: First of all, she has an amazing voice. Second of all,

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Speaker 1: I remember reading an interview with her when her kids

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Speaker 1: were a little younger, and she said that she had

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Speaker 1: stopped drinking because she found that she was more present

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Speaker 1: with them during the week, in particular when she sort

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Speaker 1: of just ruled out drinking. So every time I have

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Speaker 1: a glass of wine on a weeknight, I think of

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Speaker 1: Anne Hathaway and how she is present and I am

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Speaker 1: not okay and another mum doing it right this week

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Speaker 1: I need to talk about Queen Mary. So she's just

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Speaker 1: given us all the masterclass in how to react when

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Speaker 1: your kids do stupid shit. So our very own Tazzyborn,

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Speaker 1: Queen of Denmark. She was at this public engagement and

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Speaker 1: a reporter asked her what she thought of her daughter

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Speaker 1: Isabella's outfit when she attended. Have you seen this?

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Speaker 3: Remember this?

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Speaker 2: The princess wore a T shirt that had something rude

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Speaker 2: on it.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yes, it was quite rude.

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Speaker 1: So it loosely translates to f tim yesterday with an

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Speaker 1: arrow pointing to the right kind of light. Those shirts

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Speaker 1: from the nineties that said I'm with stupid and then

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Speaker 1: pointed to.

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Speaker 3: The right of view.

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Speaker 1: I would be so worried wearing that T shirt that

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Speaker 1: like on the yeah or that someone inappropriate walks up

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Speaker 1: like your brother or your dad walks up next to you.

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Speaker 3: Very risky shirt.

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Speaker 1: But for context, it's lyrics from the band that she

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Speaker 1: was watching at the festival. And so this reporter asked

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Speaker 1: what did you think of this? And Queen Mary gave

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Speaker 1: the most perfect response in Danish. So I have studied

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Speaker 1: this clip with forensic levels of investigation. The smile on

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Speaker 1: her face doesn't crack. It doesn't break even for a second.

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Speaker 1: She just does a slight raise of the eyebrows, very demure,

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Speaker 1: and just says, my first thought was, are you completely confused?

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Speaker 2: Ha ha ha.

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Speaker 3: But let's just put it.

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Speaker 1: This way, some decisions are better than others. She's a

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Speaker 1: great response, like, I feel like this was the perfect

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Speaker 1: way of saying I don't agree with it, but she

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Speaker 1: can do what she wants and I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: put her down in front of you.

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Speaker 3: I loved it.

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Speaker 2: What do you think imagine being a royal and having

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Speaker 2: the ball to wear a T shirt that's got the

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Speaker 2: F word on it, Like, are you okay? Isabella? Like

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Speaker 2: do you put any weight behind birth order impact on personality?

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Speaker 2: So if you think about Isabella Princess Isabella Henriette to

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Speaker 2: Ingrid muggarethe she's the middle child, her older brother is

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Speaker 2: first in line to the throne, so he's going to

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Speaker 2: be king, and her younger siblings are twins, right, so

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Speaker 2: it's attention on him, attention on them. Is this just

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Speaker 2: like the middle child going attention to me?

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Speaker 1: And she's Prince Harry in the birth order When you

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Speaker 1: think about it, like she's the second in line to

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Speaker 1: the throne. She's the Prince Harry equivalent of Denmark, so

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Speaker 1: I feel like she can be a bit more cheeky

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Speaker 1: with her behavior. And she is eighteen, she's an adult.

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Speaker 2: She also has form in the area of breaking protocol.

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Speaker 2: So you might remember she had an official portrait where

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Speaker 2: she was wearing this orange gown and this teal sash,

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Speaker 2: she had the tiara, the turquoise earrings and she was

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Speaker 2: holding her phone.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

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Speaker 2: She was kind of the first royal to do so,

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Speaker 2: and it was apparently Mary our Mary's idea, like this

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Speaker 2: intentionally modern touch to like symbolize a modern princess and

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Speaker 2: kind of a nod to her generation. But what's interesting

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Speaker 2: is the Danes mostly love it. Like this TV presenter

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Speaker 2: Jim Linfield I saw this on Facebook. He said, I

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Speaker 2: love that our royal youngsters also have personality and courage

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Speaker 2: and they don't follow the neat, pleated flow. The time

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Speaker 2: of the ladies in the hat is over. Princess Isabella

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Speaker 2: is in. People are getting around it.

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Speaker 1: They're such a modern, cool royal family. I feel like

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Speaker 1: they're rode bikes everywhere. It's so different to the British

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Speaker 1: royal family totally. And I think you can actually buy

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Speaker 1: this shirt online, so we can drop a link in

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Speaker 1: the show notes if anyone wants a T shirt that

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Speaker 1: says ftim yesterday, it's available.

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Speaker 2: Oh to be eighteen to not have the front to

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Speaker 2: low fully developed. I love it. It feels like the

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Speaker 2: whole world is talking about kay Pop d Hunters. It's

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Speaker 2: not a great name.

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Speaker 1: Is it.

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Speaker 2: Let's just get that out of the way. It feels

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Speaker 2: like a placeholder name. It feels like they were thinking

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Speaker 2: this is just the working title, and they were like,

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Speaker 2: you know what, let's just call it this. This is

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Speaker 2: just what it is.

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Speaker 1: I kept seeing it on Netflix. I think it came

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Speaker 1: out in June, and I kept seeing it pushed on me.

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Speaker 1: I was like, this sounds ridiculous. I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: watch it. But then one day my children had been

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Speaker 1: possessed by K pop Demon Hunters. They chose to watch

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Speaker 1: it by themselves, and now it's all we listen to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So this little animated movie has completely captured the

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Speaker 2: attention of kids the world over and adults too. It's

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Speaker 2: now Netflix's most watched movie ever wow, two hundred and

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Speaker 2: thirty six million views, and the soundtracks made history too.

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Speaker 2: It's the first movie soundtrack to have four simultaneous top

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Speaker 2: ten hits on the Billboard Top one hundred and Golden

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Speaker 2: has hit number one. So if you're thinking I have

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Speaker 2: seen this, I haven't clicks on it. It looks horrid

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Speaker 2: on Netflix. It's a terrible placeholder name. But should I

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Speaker 2: be worried if my kids are obsessed with this? The

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Speaker 2: answer is, don't worry. This is excellent, and I want

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Speaker 2: to talk about why. Top line. It follows a fictional

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Speaker 2: K pop girl group now k pop stands for Korean pop,

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Speaker 2: and they're also Demon Hunters. It's written and directed by

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Speaker 2: Maggie Kang. It's about these three girls where demons lurk everywhere,

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Speaker 2: but their music protects the world from the demons of

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Speaker 2: Korean folklore. So in a sentence, it's basically girl pop

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Speaker 2: group save the world. This movie goes so hard and

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Speaker 2: it is so good. Like in the first eight minutes

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Speaker 2: I thought, what is this? I cannot look away and

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Speaker 2: it's not what I thought it would be at all,

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Speaker 2: and I'm obsessed with it. Have you guys seen.

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Speaker 3: It so good?

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Speaker 1: I hadn't, and you two convinced me to watch this,

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Speaker 1: and now the songs are on repeat.

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Speaker 3: In my head, like I can't get it out. It's

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Speaker 3: the catchiest ear. Whem.

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Speaker 1: I'm happy it's there. It's not even annoying me that

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Speaker 1: these songs are in my head. It's absolutely brilliant.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun, it's funny, it's really tightly written, it's

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Speaker 2: beautiful to watch. The music is just all bangers. But

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Speaker 2: beyond that, I want to talk about the messages in it,

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Speaker 2: because I think it's really solid, and I think Disney

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Speaker 2: would be looking at this and thinking, shit, our brain

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Speaker 2: is over. They would be sitting around the bardroom head

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Speaker 2: in hands I reckon. So firstly, it's very girl power,

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Speaker 2: So the girls are at the center of this. Instead

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Speaker 2: of being passive and pretty pop idols, they're warriors and

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Speaker 2: it's their voices that are the weapons. So that's doing

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Speaker 2: two interesting things. Firstly, it centers art and music as

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Speaker 2: the thing that will save us, like music's going to

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Speaker 2: save us, which I think is a really good message

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Speaker 2: right now for the world. And secondly, it's flipping the

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Speaker 2: script on female pop stars, like this thing that's often

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Speaker 2: commodified their voices actually is what gives this group power.

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Speaker 2: It's really heavily about friendship. So these three girls are

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Speaker 2: all each other's anchors, there's no male savior rushing in,

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Speaker 2: and it's got all these amazing girlhood coded moments like goofy, messy,

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Speaker 2: really silly energy and Maggie Kang, the director, said in

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Speaker 2: Glamour that she grew up watching Disney princesses and thought

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Speaker 2: that's not me. I'm goofy and I'm awkward and I'm

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Speaker 2: gross sometimes, and she wanted to put that version of

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Speaker 2: girlhood on screen. Did you guys notice that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a big thing that stuck out to me, Like,

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Speaker 1: I know, you kind of sold this to me as

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Speaker 1: this is a great show to watch with your kids.

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Speaker 1: But my overriding thought when I was watching it is

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Speaker 1: this isn't for the kids. This is for the women

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Speaker 1: who love girl groups and want to relive that fandom

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Speaker 1: and girlhood, and it just happens to be done in

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Speaker 1: a format that your kids will up weird. Did you

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Speaker 1: think it was inappropriate for kids or more just that

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Speaker 1: kids wouldn't get as much out of it. I just

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Speaker 1: feel like kids wouldn't get as much out of it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the demons, depending on your kids age, probably

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Speaker 1: might freak them out a little bit. But I think like,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's no scarier than in Lion King him

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Speaker 1: falling off the rock or the Scary step Mother Entangled. Like,

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Speaker 1: there's always dark themes in kids shows, so I could

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Speaker 1: definitely overlook that. I definitely though, felt like it was

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Speaker 1: more for us. I felt like it was very much

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Speaker 1: a movie for us. Here's what I loved about it.

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Speaker 1: When I was growing up, I was not even aware

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Speaker 1: of South Korea. I consumed almost exclusively American content, with

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Speaker 1: a little bit of British and a tiny bit of

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Speaker 1: Australian content sprinkled in. I just think it's so brilliant

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Speaker 1: that the first big cultural touchstone for Generation Alpha is

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Speaker 1: a non Western creation, which is this movie. And there's

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Speaker 1: Korean language in the songs, as I discovered because my

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Speaker 1: kids wanted to write out the lyrics to them, and

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Speaker 1: then we realized there's a bunch of Korean lyrics in them.

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Speaker 1: There are Korean locations, there's nods to Korean myths. Of course,

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Speaker 1: the very plot is sort of premised on the idea

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Speaker 1: of Korean demons and folklore. It's part of this wave

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Speaker 1: of Korean culture which is not as how you, which

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Speaker 1: has sort of taken over the world. In recent years,

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Speaker 1: but I love that this is the first big moment

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Speaker 1: for this generation and it's not Western. I found it

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Speaker 1: really interesting to learn that even though the characters speak English,

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Speaker 1: their mouth movements actually match or reflect Korean pronunciation. So

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Speaker 1: little details like that the producer and the filmmakers really

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Speaker 1: wanted to get across an authentic picture of Korean culture

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Speaker 1: today and the ultimate message of reclaiming your identity and

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Speaker 1: being true to yourself. It feels almost subversive right now

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Speaker 1: in a political environment both in Australia and the US

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Speaker 1: and in other Western countries where that whole idea of immigration, pluralism,

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Speaker 1: multiculturalism is under attack from some sectors. And Mum and

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Speaker 1: mea is entertainment writer Chelsea Hoy. She loved this movie.

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Speaker 1: She was a very early adopter of this movie and

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Speaker 1: he's a big fan of the k pop craze and

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Speaker 1: said that it does feel very true to that genre,

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Speaker 1: bringing in this whole other group of people now that

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Speaker 1: get to enjoy that. And she wrote for the site,

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Speaker 1: we can link the story in our show notes, but

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Speaker 1: bringing it back to what you said about female friendship Monds,

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Speaker 1: she said that that was what felt like the best

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Speaker 1: part of this film was that it perfectly captures friendship

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Speaker 1: in all its chaotic glory.

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Speaker 3: She said, the.

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Speaker 1: Silliness, the unhinged chaos. It's so girlhood coded. This is

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Speaker 1: exactly how close friends should interact. It's messy, supportive, ridiculous,

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Speaker 1: and fiercely loyal all at the same time. Each girl

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Speaker 1: has her own struggles, dreams, growth, arc and the film

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Speaker 1: takes time to develop them all properly, and that the

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Speaker 1: banter feels natural and lived in, so their conflicts feel real,

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Speaker 1: but their bond feels very unbreakable. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: an excellent message for our girls to be growing up

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Speaker 1: with well and our boys. I love the fact that

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Speaker 1: for boys and girls, this is a vital window when

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Speaker 1: they are young to kind of shape their perceptions of

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Speaker 1: the world and what relationships are. And I've noticed that

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Speaker 1: when boys watch that movie too, it's not centering a

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Speaker 1: heterosexual it's centering friendship. And that's just as powerful a

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Speaker 1: message for boys to receive as for girls. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's very emotionally intelligent. Like I was comparing it

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Speaker 2: to what we grew up with when we were kids,

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Speaker 2: and it's sort of we had the Goonies, the Sandlot kids,

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Speaker 2: Lion King, I guess was really big beating the Beast,

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Speaker 2: which is super problematic.

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Speaker 1: A lad and super problematic, a lot of like mediation

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Speaker 1: of other cultures.

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Speaker 2: And all centered on men. Here's the small problem with

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Speaker 2: it is that the men actually don't come off very

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Speaker 2: well in this movie. So Mark Lee wrote in Northwest

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Speaker 2: Asian Weekly that once again Asian men get thrown under

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Speaker 2: the bus, and he was arguing that at first glance,

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Speaker 2: this looks like a win for Asian representation, Like the

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Speaker 2: women are very stylish and confident and heroic, but the

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Speaker 2: men in this film are either villains or they're passive

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Speaker 2: like the Sarja boys. They don't speak, none of them

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Speaker 2: really a speaking role, so they're completely silenced, or they're

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Speaker 2: just playing useless like their manager that the girls have.

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Speaker 2: The other main male character is basically like a buffoon.

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Speaker 2: So it does leave the guys with almost nothing. But

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about childhood movies we had it. I

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Speaker 2: was arguing with my sister about this. She was saying,

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Speaker 2: don't worry about the man like, they've had their time

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Speaker 2: in the sun. If you think about the childhood movies

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Speaker 2: we had, it was Goonies, all boys, Sandlot kids, all boys,

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Speaker 2: lion king, a big boy dies and a little boy

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Speaker 2: takes over, you know, and a weird evil boy uncle

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Speaker 2: Beauty and the beast like the smart girl marries her

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Speaker 2: captor to save her dad. So it's nice to see

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Speaker 2: this tide turning in kids pop culture towards more female centric,

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Speaker 2: smart movies.

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Speaker 1: I can see that critique though, because in cell culture

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Speaker 1: is really a big thing in Korea too, and this

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Speaker 1: idea of young men feeling left behind as young women

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Speaker 1: are empowered and hitting educational goals and career goals in

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Speaker 1: a way that they're kind of lapping men is just

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Speaker 1: as big an issue there as it is in Western cultures.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's an important perspective to bring in.

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Speaker 1: I guess the other thing that I think kids are

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Speaker 1: really connecting with here, which we haven't yet touched on,

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Speaker 1: is the way that it blurs the lines between the

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Speaker 1: digital and virtual world and real world in a way

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Speaker 1: that feels so on point and so relevant for Generation Alpha.

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Speaker 1: They are more than digital natives. Their world is shaped

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Speaker 1: by the Internet and by online culture, and this movie

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Speaker 1: just blurs those boundaries in such a sort of neat

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Speaker 1: and clever way. Think about the way on the end credits,

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Speaker 1: this isn't a spoiler. You see the women who are

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Speaker 1: actually doing the singing in the studio recording the songs,

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Speaker 1: so you get reminded that this is the real world.

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Speaker 1: There is also the virtual world that you've been watching

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Speaker 1: in the movie, and the two of them, it's really

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Speaker 1: hard to tell where one ends and the other begins.

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Speaker 1: One interesting cultural reason for that is that South Korea

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Speaker 1: got internet in a widespread way a lot earlier than

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Speaker 1: the rest of the world. They found out that broadband

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Speaker 1: was delivered their back in twenty ten to basically all houses,

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Speaker 1: and so I think that's part of the reason why

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Speaker 1: they're able to sort of tap into a digital native

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Speaker 1: culture in such a convincing way. For young kids, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's quite TikTok coded as well, so in the way

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Speaker 2: that Stacy said before that this is a movie for

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Speaker 2: really for adults. It does that beautiful thing where it

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Speaker 2: toes the line between youth culture and adult themes. So

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Speaker 2: in the first few minutes we meet the girls, they're

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Speaker 2: on their private jet and they're having this big feast

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Speaker 2: of food, and that feels TikTok coded to me, because

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Speaker 2: there is this subculture on TikTok of I think it's

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Speaker 2: called muckbang, where people buy Korean food and then film

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Speaker 2: themselves eating it, And so I think there's all these

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Speaker 2: like digital moments throughout the show that kids would connect

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Speaker 2: with in a way that people who don't live their

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Speaker 2: lives on TikTok probably wouldn't. But the other thing that

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Speaker 2: really stood out to me was how inclusive this show was.

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Speaker 2: So the fans of this girl group, they're not just silly,

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Speaker 2: screaming teenage girls. It's everyone. You see all ages, all

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Speaker 2: body types, all genders. You see blokey men crying, you

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Speaker 2: see elderly women with their little fan clubs. Zoe, one

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Speaker 2: of the characters, talks about the colors in her head

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Speaker 2: and taking off her mask, which some people have said

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Speaker 2: is coded as she's neurodivergent, and a lot of fans

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Speaker 2: have read roomy. The main character is queer. Even the

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Speaker 2: rival boy band has pink hair and sort of effem

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Speaker 2: that looking soft men. So the whole world of it

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Speaker 2: is very fluid and very inclusive.

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Speaker 1: That's a great point, and it makes me reflect on

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Speaker 1: the fact that you know, there are all sorts of

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Speaker 1: downsides to not having a monoculture anymore, like the fact

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Speaker 1: that everyone's listening to their own music, everyone's watching their

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Speaker 1: own TikTok algorithm. But every now and then something hits

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Speaker 1: that the whole world enjoys, and that brings us back

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Speaker 1: to the monoculture that we used to have. And I've

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Speaker 1: found that I'm reconnecting with friends who I've sort of

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Speaker 1: fallen out of touch with because our kids are sharing

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Speaker 1: videos of themselves dancing to Golden and it's just so

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Speaker 1: nice for the whole world at this kind of moment

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Speaker 1: to be able to enjoy the same thing at the

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Speaker 1: same time. Yeah. Yeah, my only criticism when Monzie mentioned

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Speaker 1: about the inclusiveness, I think that was great from the

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Speaker 1: fan perspective. But my only thing that bugged me was

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Speaker 1: that the three main girl band members are all incredibly

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Speaker 1: thin and attractive, and when they're showing other body types

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Speaker 1: in the movie, but they're not showing them on them

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Speaker 1: that was the only thing where I went, Oh, when

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Speaker 1: they're talking about consuming ten thousand calories before they go

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Speaker 1: on stage, I wish that that hadn't been part of it,

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Speaker 1: because you kind of don't want that to be the focus.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I can't argue with that. I think that's

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Speaker 2: a really valid point though. I was listening to a

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Speaker 2: podcast with Jayha Kim. She studies K pop, and she

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Speaker 2: was talking about how K pop is this extremely manufactured

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Speaker 2: and controlled machine, and how women in K pop have

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Speaker 2: to diet like they're really controlled. They have to look

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Speaker 2: a certain way. So I guess in some sense it's

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Speaker 2: true to the K pop culture. But yeah, I do agree, skinny,

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Speaker 2: hot girls save.

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Speaker 1: In the world. And it's even at the point, as

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Speaker 1: you say about the dancers from the show. Novak Djokovic

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Speaker 1: even when you want to match. Last week did a

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Speaker 1: little dance from one of the songs, and I said,

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Speaker 1: most lovable thing he's ever.

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Speaker 2: Done in it.

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Speaker 3: I know, that's what I thought. I was like, do

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Speaker 3: I like him now?

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Speaker 1: He did one of the dancers in tribute to his daughter.

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Speaker 1: He said, she's been teaching me how to do these

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Speaker 1: dances from K pop Demon Hunters. So it's at that level,

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Speaker 1: like it's just permeated the culture in such a massive way,

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Speaker 1: which is great to see.

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Speaker 3: Everyone can enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: The demons are funny. They're not scary. If you're thinking, arna, oh,

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Speaker 2: my kid's watching demons, they're quite funny. They poke, fun

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Speaker 2: at themselves like it's a ten out of ten for me.

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Speaker 2: I loved it.

429
00:22:00,542 --> 00:22:04,021
Speaker 1: There are a lot of questions that parents these days

430
00:22:04,262 --> 00:22:08,222
Speaker 1: are having to ask themselves and answer that previous generations

431
00:22:08,222 --> 00:22:11,621
Speaker 1: of parents did not have to deal with. One of

432
00:22:11,661 --> 00:22:16,262
Speaker 1: those questions, a really, really tricky one to answer, is

433
00:22:16,581 --> 00:22:19,421
Speaker 1: whether or not to use a tracking app on your kids. Now,

434
00:22:19,621 --> 00:22:22,662
Speaker 1: Mon's and Stacy, You're probably not yet at the stage

435
00:22:22,742 --> 00:22:25,901
Speaker 1: where you're thinking about that. I am sort of approaching

436
00:22:25,942 --> 00:22:28,381
Speaker 1: that stage, and to be honest, I just don't know

437
00:22:28,462 --> 00:22:31,701
Speaker 1: what I'm going to do. But lots and lots of

438
00:22:31,782 --> 00:22:35,222
Speaker 1: parents have asked this question and decided yes, they do

439
00:22:35,302 --> 00:22:37,821
Speaker 1: want to know where their children are, and there are

440
00:22:37,861 --> 00:22:41,502
Speaker 1: lots of reasons why they do that. For instance, experts

441
00:22:41,542 --> 00:22:44,941
Speaker 1: say that for parents of children with autism, a tracking

442
00:22:44,982 --> 00:22:48,741
Speaker 1: app can be really helpful, particularly when wandering off is common.

443
00:22:49,341 --> 00:22:51,341
Speaker 1: There are lots of reasons why they do it, But

444
00:22:51,942 --> 00:22:55,381
Speaker 1: we don't yet really understand what the effects of using

445
00:22:55,422 --> 00:22:58,261
Speaker 1: these tracking apps will be on the children who are

446
00:22:58,302 --> 00:23:02,461
Speaker 1: constantly surveyed by them. So we have some clues that

447
00:23:02,502 --> 00:23:06,022
Speaker 1: are emerging. I should say they've become really ubiquitous. One

448
00:23:06,061 --> 00:23:08,342
Speaker 1: of the most popular apps Life three sixty is now

449
00:23:08,341 --> 00:23:10,581
Speaker 1: on fourteen percent of all phones in the US.

450
00:23:11,022 --> 00:23:13,382
Speaker 2: What really, Yeah.

451
00:23:12,982 --> 00:23:16,181
Speaker 1: It's crazy right, And in Australia, one in five parents

452
00:23:16,222 --> 00:23:18,781
Speaker 1: attracting their children, whether it's through an air tag or

453
00:23:18,901 --> 00:23:22,782
Speaker 1: LIE three sixty or another app. We've got some stats

454
00:23:22,821 --> 00:23:25,141
Speaker 1: coming out about what it's doing to kids to feel

455
00:23:25,182 --> 00:23:29,461
Speaker 1: constantly surveyed. A recent survey that Australia's e Safety Commissioner

456
00:23:29,502 --> 00:23:34,221
Speaker 1: did looked at the effects on young people's attitudes to

457
00:23:34,302 --> 00:23:37,742
Speaker 1: relationships and specifically intimate relationships, and they discovered that a

458
00:23:37,782 --> 00:23:40,421
Speaker 1: full twenty percent of eighteen to twenty four year olds

459
00:23:40,942 --> 00:23:44,741
Speaker 1: think that it's reasonable to track the location of their

460
00:23:44,782 --> 00:23:47,701
Speaker 1: intimate partners. That's higher than any other age group. And

461
00:23:47,821 --> 00:23:50,542
Speaker 1: remember this is the age group that came of age

462
00:23:50,942 --> 00:23:54,782
Speaker 1: being trapped by their parents. It's alarming. I think I'm

463
00:23:54,782 --> 00:23:56,381
Speaker 1: going to put my cards on the table here. I

464
00:23:56,422 --> 00:23:58,621
Speaker 1: haven't decided yet what to do about the tracking apps.

465
00:23:59,061 --> 00:24:03,381
Speaker 1: There are unforeseen consequences of children going up knowing that

466
00:24:03,422 --> 00:24:06,942
Speaker 1: their parents know exactly where they are at all times.

467
00:24:07,581 --> 00:24:10,262
Speaker 1: And it's a real gray area and it raises lots

468
00:24:10,262 --> 00:24:14,262
Speaker 1: of uncomfortable questions. Do children are they entitled to privacy?

469
00:24:14,901 --> 00:24:17,501
Speaker 1: Do we need to get their consent to use these apps.

470
00:24:17,542 --> 00:24:20,061
Speaker 1: What does it mean to link surveillance and love in

471
00:24:20,101 --> 00:24:22,782
Speaker 1: this way? Is this just the price of safety these days?

472
00:24:23,141 --> 00:24:25,542
Speaker 1: You know? As I was thinking about this, I came

473
00:24:25,581 --> 00:24:29,462
Speaker 1: across a great quote from Tina Fay about photoshop. She said,

474
00:24:29,462 --> 00:24:31,061
Speaker 1: and I want to get it right because she's so clever.

475
00:24:31,262 --> 00:24:34,461
Speaker 1: It is an appalling and tragic reflection on the moral

476
00:24:34,502 --> 00:24:37,502
Speaker 1: decay of our society, unless I need it, in which case,

477
00:24:37,502 --> 00:24:40,542
Speaker 1: everybody be cool. I suspect that's where I'm going to

478
00:24:40,621 --> 00:24:42,941
Speaker 1: land on the whole tracking apps thing, but I also

479
00:24:42,982 --> 00:24:46,782
Speaker 1: wanted to intellectualize it and overthink it first. So Stacy,

480
00:24:46,821 --> 00:24:48,461
Speaker 1: what do you think. Do you think you'll use a

481
00:24:48,502 --> 00:24:49,181
Speaker 1: tracking app?

482
00:24:49,381 --> 00:24:49,581
Speaker 2: Yeah?

483
00:24:49,581 --> 00:24:52,222
Speaker 1: Of course I bloody will. Like I didn't even think

484
00:24:52,222 --> 00:24:55,022
Speaker 1: this was a question. Everybody's doing that now. I have

485
00:24:55,542 --> 00:24:58,542
Speaker 1: friends who track their kids, track their husbands, track their

486
00:24:58,742 --> 00:25:01,901
Speaker 1: son's girlfriend like. It's all very normal now. And our

487
00:25:01,982 --> 00:25:04,701
Speaker 1: kids are growing up in that generation where they're tracking

488
00:25:04,702 --> 00:25:07,381
Speaker 1: their friends even on Snapchat. They're used to sharing that,

489
00:25:07,381 --> 00:25:09,462
Speaker 1: they're not used to the level of privacy that we had.

490
00:25:09,581 --> 00:25:11,222
Speaker 1: So I very much feel that this is going to

491
00:25:11,262 --> 00:25:13,821
Speaker 1: be the norm going forward. I must admit it's something

492
00:25:13,861 --> 00:25:15,941
Speaker 1: that I think, well, yeah, that probably would make me

493
00:25:16,061 --> 00:25:19,741
Speaker 1: feel better knowing where she is. But I kind of

494
00:25:19,742 --> 00:25:22,821
Speaker 1: wanted to interrogate, like what's our fear, Like, what's our

495
00:25:22,861 --> 00:25:26,101
Speaker 1: fear around not knowing their every move? And I guess

496
00:25:26,182 --> 00:25:27,981
Speaker 1: the one that's at the top of the list I

497
00:25:28,022 --> 00:25:30,542
Speaker 1: think you'd probably both agree is that they'll get taken,

498
00:25:30,982 --> 00:25:33,141
Speaker 1: Like that's the thing you're worried about, is that they'll

499
00:25:33,621 --> 00:25:35,622
Speaker 1: get taken or they're a missing person and you don't

500
00:25:35,661 --> 00:25:37,941
Speaker 1: know where they are. And so I looked into that

501
00:25:38,141 --> 00:25:42,141
Speaker 1: and the stats of that, and it's so minuscule compared

502
00:25:42,141 --> 00:25:45,702
Speaker 1: to our population. Like Dennis Moriarty wrote this piece where

503
00:25:45,702 --> 00:25:49,142
Speaker 1: he quoted the National Missing Person's Coordination Center, and they

504
00:25:49,222 --> 00:25:52,022
Speaker 1: track the number of missing child cases throughout the decades.

505
00:25:52,302 --> 00:25:54,861
Speaker 1: So when we're looking back at the seventies, it was eighteen,

506
00:25:55,462 --> 00:25:58,941
Speaker 1: in the eighties, it was eleven children, nineties fifteen, and

507
00:25:58,942 --> 00:26:01,462
Speaker 1: then it drops way down four in the two thousands

508
00:26:01,542 --> 00:26:04,101
Speaker 1: and five in the twenty ten. Do they know why

509
00:26:04,141 --> 00:26:06,302
Speaker 1: there's been such a drop? I mean, those are small

510
00:26:06,341 --> 00:26:08,821
Speaker 1: numbers to begin with, small numbers when you consider like

511
00:26:09,022 --> 00:26:11,022
Speaker 1: the growth of people that we've had in the country

512
00:26:11,061 --> 00:26:13,741
Speaker 1: as well, not to say that we ever want that

513
00:26:13,782 --> 00:26:16,502
Speaker 1: to be happening to any child. But the world is

514
00:26:16,542 --> 00:26:19,942
Speaker 1: by and large a safer place now than it was then.

515
00:26:20,302 --> 00:26:22,182
Speaker 1: But I wonder whether it's a chicken and egg. It's

516
00:26:22,182 --> 00:26:24,981
Speaker 1: a bit safer now because we have the technology to

517
00:26:24,982 --> 00:26:26,781
Speaker 1: be able to know where everyone is.

518
00:26:27,422 --> 00:26:28,742
Speaker 3: What do you think mons.

519
00:26:29,821 --> 00:26:36,341
Speaker 2: Safety doesn't sell product, Stacy, Yeah, you said the magic

520
00:26:36,422 --> 00:26:41,782
Speaker 2: word just before fear. And these companies they don't care

521
00:26:42,141 --> 00:26:46,942
Speaker 2: about your kids. They care about their shareholders. Life three

522
00:26:47,101 --> 00:26:51,181
Speaker 2: sixty is a tech company and they have built a

523
00:26:51,222 --> 00:26:57,942
Speaker 2: product on anxious millennial parents, on catastrophizing situations, and marketing

524
00:26:57,982 --> 00:27:01,782
Speaker 2: with fear. Have you seen the ad for this product?

525
00:27:01,901 --> 00:27:02,262
Speaker 1: Cop this?

526
00:27:03,341 --> 00:27:07,381
Speaker 4: You are my whole wide world, my heart, my joy,

527
00:27:07,502 --> 00:27:12,901
Speaker 4: my baby girl. You'll never know how much I love you.

528
00:27:13,302 --> 00:27:17,101
Speaker 4: When you're gone. I just think of you dying.

529
00:27:18,542 --> 00:27:18,861
Speaker 1: Mom.

530
00:27:18,982 --> 00:27:21,262
Speaker 4: What every time you leave my safe when.

531
00:27:21,182 --> 00:27:22,581
Speaker 3: You drive a schools, stay out of night?

532
00:27:22,742 --> 00:27:24,182
Speaker 4: This is where I go.

533
00:27:24,621 --> 00:27:27,101
Speaker 2: Out of the million ways in i've my brain and

534
00:27:27,141 --> 00:27:27,902
Speaker 2: what you could.

535
00:27:27,782 --> 00:27:31,902
Speaker 1: Die at any given time. That's to range.

536
00:27:32,101 --> 00:27:33,581
Speaker 3: That does make me very anxious.

537
00:27:34,222 --> 00:27:36,181
Speaker 2: When you go to marketing school, you know what they say.

538
00:27:36,381 --> 00:27:40,621
Speaker 2: They say like marketing one oh. One. Fear based marketing

539
00:27:40,982 --> 00:27:44,141
Speaker 2: works because it hits the oldest part of our brain,

540
00:27:44,262 --> 00:27:48,262
Speaker 2: like the survival instinct. And for parents, the stakes are

541
00:27:48,302 --> 00:27:51,941
Speaker 2: really high because you're talking about your children. So I

542
00:27:52,022 --> 00:27:54,662
Speaker 2: just think we need to take a zoom back and go,

543
00:27:55,101 --> 00:27:58,461
Speaker 2: are they just exploiting a fear that we have that

544
00:27:58,621 --> 00:28:02,102
Speaker 2: doesn't exist, stacy, because as you say, the data shows

545
00:28:02,222 --> 00:28:05,622
Speaker 2: that we actually are living quite in safe times, particularly

546
00:28:05,661 --> 00:28:09,782
Speaker 2: in Australia. Yeah, notwithstanding your point about autism and about

547
00:28:09,821 --> 00:28:13,261
Speaker 2: some parents really needing this for certain reasons. But what

548
00:28:13,341 --> 00:28:17,661
Speaker 2: I think is really interesting is what the experts are

549
00:28:17,702 --> 00:28:21,302
Speaker 2: saying about this. I've been reading The Anxious Generation by

550
00:28:21,581 --> 00:28:24,262
Speaker 2: Jonathan hit He wrote this best selling book. Lots of

551
00:28:24,302 --> 00:28:27,462
Speaker 2: people are talking about it, and he calls this phenomenon

552
00:28:28,022 --> 00:28:31,661
Speaker 2: safety ism, and he says the research around this is

553
00:28:31,742 --> 00:28:37,542
Speaker 2: really consistent, like hovering, tracking doesn't reduce anxiety. It actually

554
00:28:37,542 --> 00:28:40,822
Speaker 2: makes kids and parents more anxious, and you see it

555
00:28:40,862 --> 00:28:44,421
Speaker 2: in the data everywhere. So Deacon University found that Australian

556
00:28:44,462 --> 00:28:47,742
Speaker 2: parents are the most risk averse in the world. Four

557
00:28:47,822 --> 00:28:50,742
Speaker 2: out of five won't let their kids do risky things.

558
00:28:51,382 --> 00:28:53,981
Speaker 2: There was this University of Michigan study that found that

559
00:28:54,142 --> 00:28:56,981
Speaker 2: half of parents won't even let their tween walk to

560
00:28:57,022 --> 00:29:00,142
Speaker 2: a friend's house or go to another aisle in the supermarket,

561
00:29:00,382 --> 00:29:02,422
Speaker 2: like parents will not let their kids go to Aisle

562
00:29:02,462 --> 00:29:05,022
Speaker 2: three to collect a can of beans. And what this

563
00:29:05,222 --> 00:29:09,181
Speaker 2: is doing is making kids depressed and anxious more than

564
00:29:09,222 --> 00:29:12,421
Speaker 2: ever and parents too. And so the experts are saying

565
00:29:12,742 --> 00:29:17,262
Speaker 2: the solution to this anxious generation is not tracking them

566
00:29:17,382 --> 00:29:19,902
Speaker 2: or texting them. You have to let them go into

567
00:29:19,982 --> 00:29:22,662
Speaker 2: the big wide world. And when we stop children taking

568
00:29:22,702 --> 00:29:25,941
Speaker 2: any risks, we actually block them with this safetyism. We

569
00:29:26,062 --> 00:29:30,221
Speaker 2: block them from overcoming anxiety, managing risk, learning to be

570
00:29:30,302 --> 00:29:33,542
Speaker 2: self governing like, all of which are essential skills to

571
00:29:33,622 --> 00:29:34,501
Speaker 2: becoming an adult.

572
00:29:34,622 --> 00:29:37,701
Speaker 1: The other thing that Hit says is that we have

573
00:29:37,822 --> 00:29:40,421
Speaker 1: set up a division between the real world and the

574
00:29:40,462 --> 00:29:42,982
Speaker 1: online world that says that the real world is more

575
00:29:43,062 --> 00:29:46,302
Speaker 1: dangerous than the online world, and kids get a lesson

576
00:29:46,382 --> 00:29:48,942
Speaker 1: from this. He says that they can retreat into their

577
00:29:48,982 --> 00:29:52,422
Speaker 1: phones where they're not monitored and where they can roam freely,

578
00:29:52,822 --> 00:29:56,102
Speaker 1: and that world is actually more dangerous than the real

579
00:29:56,142 --> 00:29:58,701
Speaker 1: world that we're monitoring them in. So I know, it

580
00:29:58,742 --> 00:30:01,022
Speaker 1: starts to feel overwhelming them because when you say, thinking

581
00:30:01,022 --> 00:30:03,622
Speaker 1: about the supermarket aisle. I don't know if I have

582
00:30:03,902 --> 00:30:06,742
Speaker 1: necessarily consciously let my kids go into a different isle

583
00:30:06,782 --> 00:30:10,021
Speaker 1: in the supermarket. And one way to get a that

584
00:30:10,182 --> 00:30:13,742
Speaker 1: is that Jonathan hit has this organization called let Grow

585
00:30:13,742 --> 00:30:16,702
Speaker 1: that I know you've come across Tumbons and that website.

586
00:30:16,742 --> 00:30:19,862
Speaker 1: The let Grow website has a ton of useful information

587
00:30:20,062 --> 00:30:24,022
Speaker 1: and practical tips on how you can start letting go

588
00:30:24,142 --> 00:30:27,142
Speaker 1: of your kids and let them into the world. And

589
00:30:27,222 --> 00:30:29,462
Speaker 1: they even have this little card you can print out

590
00:30:29,502 --> 00:30:32,742
Speaker 1: there that your child can carry that says I am

591
00:30:32,742 --> 00:30:35,582
Speaker 1: not a neglected child. I am a child whose parents

592
00:30:35,622 --> 00:30:37,782
Speaker 1: want me to be able to walk around in the world.

593
00:30:38,102 --> 00:30:40,302
Speaker 1: Here is their number if you have any questions. And

594
00:30:40,342 --> 00:30:41,622
Speaker 1: I think that's a brilliant idea.

595
00:30:41,742 --> 00:30:42,942
Speaker 3: That's so interesting.

596
00:30:43,182 --> 00:30:45,102
Speaker 1: Maybe it is a case of that we're worrying about

597
00:30:45,102 --> 00:30:47,262
Speaker 1: the wrong thing, Like it's like when people are worried

598
00:30:47,262 --> 00:30:49,302
Speaker 1: about getting on a plane and the plane crashing, but

599
00:30:49,342 --> 00:30:51,741
Speaker 1: then they'll jump in their car every day after a

600
00:30:51,742 --> 00:30:53,502
Speaker 1: couple of glasses of wine and not think.

601
00:30:53,342 --> 00:30:54,102
Speaker 3: Twice about it.

602
00:30:54,422 --> 00:30:57,662
Speaker 1: Like really, we're thinking that the danger is when they're

603
00:30:57,702 --> 00:30:59,701
Speaker 1: out and about without us, But a lot of the

604
00:30:59,782 --> 00:31:02,462
Speaker 1: danger is the phone, Like we're seeing time and time

605
00:31:02,462 --> 00:31:04,902
Speaker 1: again study showing that phones are the damaging thing to

606
00:31:04,942 --> 00:31:07,302
Speaker 1: their mental health and they're overall well being, like to

607
00:31:07,342 --> 00:31:10,262
Speaker 1: their resilience. And yet we're saying, here, have the phone,

608
00:31:10,382 --> 00:31:12,741
Speaker 1: never leave it alone. You must take this with you

609
00:31:12,822 --> 00:31:14,661
Speaker 1: so that I don't lose you. It's kind of like

610
00:31:14,782 --> 00:31:17,742
Speaker 1: misdirected fear. I think I saw.

611
00:31:17,702 --> 00:31:21,622
Speaker 2: An article that said that in twenty twenty three, stalking

612
00:31:21,742 --> 00:31:26,702
Speaker 2: victims filed a class action lawsuit against this company Life

613
00:31:26,742 --> 00:31:30,382
Speaker 2: three sixty and against tile and against Amazon for essentially

614
00:31:30,462 --> 00:31:36,022
Speaker 2: promoting stalking, specifically multiple privacy law violations. And there was

615
00:31:36,062 --> 00:31:38,181
Speaker 2: this article in the Washington Post as well that said

616
00:31:38,542 --> 00:31:42,222
Speaker 2: that parents are using this location sharing feature to track

617
00:31:42,302 --> 00:31:46,782
Speaker 2: their teenage and adult children in ways that resemble emotional abuse.

618
00:31:47,102 --> 00:31:49,981
Speaker 2: So you talked about that before, Amelia, like, is it

619
00:31:50,022 --> 00:31:51,941
Speaker 2: a thin end of the wedge? Are we teaching our

620
00:31:52,022 --> 00:31:55,382
Speaker 2: kids that surveillance is normal and surveillance is love? And

621
00:31:55,422 --> 00:31:56,222
Speaker 2: what does that say?

622
00:31:56,622 --> 00:31:58,902
Speaker 1: And I think we're teaching each other that too. The

623
00:31:58,942 --> 00:32:02,022
Speaker 1: New South Wales Crime Commission has actually highlighted the use

624
00:32:02,062 --> 00:32:05,702
Speaker 1: of these apps in both domestic violence and organized crime settings.

625
00:32:06,182 --> 00:32:09,542
Speaker 1: In a lot of intimate partner violence situations, these apps

626
00:32:09,622 --> 00:32:12,782
Speaker 1: are used to control, and I wonder if we're just

627
00:32:12,862 --> 00:32:16,661
Speaker 1: becoming used to having people on demand and having information

628
00:32:16,702 --> 00:32:19,822
Speaker 1: about people on demand in a way that isn't just

629
00:32:19,862 --> 00:32:22,661
Speaker 1: done reasonable for kids, but it's also bleeding into our

630
00:32:22,702 --> 00:32:26,262
Speaker 1: other relationships. And it's like the app doesn't guarantee the safety.

631
00:32:26,302 --> 00:32:28,222
Speaker 1: It's telling you where they are, but it's not telling

632
00:32:28,222 --> 00:32:31,542
Speaker 1: you the circumstances of that location and how safe they'd

633
00:32:31,542 --> 00:32:33,461
Speaker 1: be when they're there, Like you might be seeing them

634
00:32:33,502 --> 00:32:35,822
Speaker 1: at their friend's house, there could be a party going on,

635
00:32:35,902 --> 00:32:38,421
Speaker 1: all sorts of strangers there, So it's not like a

636
00:32:38,462 --> 00:32:41,862
Speaker 1: fail safe. It doesn't account for everything that could go wrong.

637
00:32:41,702 --> 00:32:45,142
Speaker 2: So true stacy. Also, kids are savvy. They're going to

638
00:32:45,542 --> 00:32:47,502
Speaker 2: find a work around for this anyway. They're going to

639
00:32:47,542 --> 00:32:49,862
Speaker 2: put their phone under their pillow at home and then

640
00:32:49,902 --> 00:32:52,421
Speaker 2: have a burn a phone that they're using at a party.

641
00:32:52,582 --> 00:32:53,582
Speaker 3: That's exactly right.

642
00:32:53,622 --> 00:32:58,022
Speaker 1: I found this awesome article Juliet Weisfogel wrote for She Knows,

643
00:32:58,142 --> 00:33:02,342
Speaker 1: a Teens Guide to Temporarily Regaining Freedom, where she's written

644
00:33:02,382 --> 00:33:04,902
Speaker 1: all about the hacks that she used when her mum

645
00:33:05,022 --> 00:33:07,062
Speaker 1: put the tracking apps on her phone when she was

646
00:33:07,102 --> 00:33:09,382
Speaker 1: a fourteen year old and got caught sneaking out the

647
00:33:09,382 --> 00:33:12,062
Speaker 1: wadow on the ways that she got around it, So

648
00:33:12,102 --> 00:33:14,502
Speaker 1: there were different things she did, like turning off the

649
00:33:14,502 --> 00:33:17,862
Speaker 1: Bluetooth at home and the Wi Fi so that the

650
00:33:17,902 --> 00:33:20,221
Speaker 1: app would know that that was her last location, and

651
00:33:20,222 --> 00:33:21,941
Speaker 1: then seeking out the window to a party.

652
00:33:22,342 --> 00:33:23,462
Speaker 3: But I thought the best.

653
00:33:23,302 --> 00:33:25,342
Speaker 1: One that she gave his advice, which is so funny,

654
00:33:25,382 --> 00:33:29,222
Speaker 1: really crazy idea to get around it. She suggested leave

655
00:33:29,262 --> 00:33:32,062
Speaker 1: your phone at home and go to the party. But

656
00:33:32,142 --> 00:33:34,382
Speaker 1: I thought the best part was that she said they

657
00:33:34,462 --> 00:33:36,902
Speaker 1: still took their laptops because they needed a way to

658
00:33:36,942 --> 00:33:40,142
Speaker 1: communicate and to uber home afterwards. So they've got a

659
00:33:40,142 --> 00:33:42,342
Speaker 1: bit of technology on them anyway, they can't escape it.

660
00:33:42,462 --> 00:33:45,142
Speaker 1: And that said, I'm getting a bit of deja vu here,

661
00:33:45,182 --> 00:33:46,981
Speaker 1: which is before I had kids, I said I'd never

662
00:33:47,062 --> 00:33:50,182
Speaker 1: let them watch TV. I reserve the right to use

663
00:33:50,222 --> 00:33:52,262
Speaker 1: tracking apps the minute I feel.

664
00:33:51,982 --> 00:33:52,461
Speaker 3: I need to.

665
00:33:52,622 --> 00:33:56,542
Speaker 1: Yeah, some sad news cross my feed this week. Every

666
00:33:56,742 --> 00:34:00,582
Speaker 1: reject shop in Australia is about to disappear for good. No.

667
00:34:02,462 --> 00:34:05,822
Speaker 1: I love the reject shop and I also love the

668
00:34:05,862 --> 00:34:08,422
Speaker 1: top comment on this news from a Reddit post about

669
00:34:08,462 --> 00:34:11,062
Speaker 1: the reject shop. No longer will I be able to

670
00:34:11,102 --> 00:34:13,462
Speaker 1: tell my sister. That's where my mum and dad bought her.

671
00:34:14,502 --> 00:34:16,422
Speaker 3: That was a classic. I pulled that one a couple

672
00:34:16,462 --> 00:34:17,222
Speaker 3: of times too.

673
00:34:18,462 --> 00:34:21,781
Speaker 1: Look, it's probably a deep psychological problem I have, but

674
00:34:21,902 --> 00:34:25,982
Speaker 1: the reject Shop really brings out my latent hoarding instincts.

675
00:34:26,062 --> 00:34:28,622
Speaker 1: I go in there with my little basket, and because

676
00:34:28,701 --> 00:34:32,542
Speaker 1: everything is so aggressively and reasonably priced, I just want

677
00:34:32,582 --> 00:34:35,821
Speaker 1: it all. And it makes me feel like I can

678
00:34:35,822 --> 00:34:38,261
Speaker 1: be a different kind of parent. This is the kind

679
00:34:38,261 --> 00:34:40,381
Speaker 1: of parent who has a craft draw as opposed to

680
00:34:40,382 --> 00:34:44,261
Speaker 1: just piles of nonsense. The kind who sharpens her kids

681
00:34:44,342 --> 00:34:47,462
Speaker 1: pencils every evening while thinking about the masterpieces that they're

682
00:34:47,502 --> 00:34:49,582
Speaker 1: going to create the next day that she's not going

683
00:34:49,622 --> 00:34:52,102
Speaker 1: to throw out when no one's looking back, instake curate

684
00:34:52,181 --> 00:34:54,261
Speaker 1: in a perfect scrap book that she also got at

685
00:34:54,261 --> 00:34:57,742
Speaker 1: the reject shop, And the kind of parent who creates

686
00:34:57,781 --> 00:35:00,542
Speaker 1: seasonal tablescapes. I really want to be one of those

687
00:35:00,582 --> 00:35:03,941
Speaker 1: parents who celebrates the coming of spring with some pastels.

688
00:35:04,462 --> 00:35:07,062
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get that feeling in Ikia. This is too okay,

689
00:35:07,102 --> 00:35:09,422
Speaker 2: that's yours reject, that's my reject.

690
00:35:10,462 --> 00:35:13,462
Speaker 1: Look, that's why I really want to pour out a

691
00:35:13,502 --> 00:35:17,022
Speaker 1: bottle of aggressively centered off brand bubble Bath for the

692
00:35:17,102 --> 00:35:21,262
Speaker 1: reject shot. You know exactly what you're talking.

693
00:35:21,462 --> 00:35:23,261
Speaker 3: I can smell the smell as you said.

694
00:35:23,261 --> 00:35:25,862
Speaker 2: It's blue, right, it's blue blue.

695
00:35:26,142 --> 00:35:29,582
Speaker 1: And you're like, is this going to make my children's

696
00:35:29,622 --> 00:35:32,662
Speaker 1: skin break out in a rash? Maybe, but they're gonna

697
00:35:32,701 --> 00:35:34,382
Speaker 1: have fun doing it and it's going to be a

698
00:35:34,462 --> 00:35:38,582
Speaker 1: form thing. Reject Shop. Thank you for the good times.

699
00:35:38,622 --> 00:35:41,942
Speaker 1: Remember when Tony Abbott I'm wittingly posed in front of

700
00:35:41,982 --> 00:35:45,462
Speaker 1: its signage on a campaign stop in Canberra before the election,

701
00:35:45,582 --> 00:35:49,142
Speaker 1: he last n't that wonderful? Thank you for making school

702
00:35:49,142 --> 00:35:52,462
Speaker 1: holidays bearable. Thank you for the competitively priced water colors.

703
00:35:52,622 --> 00:35:56,821
Speaker 1: Thank you for the Okay. I've just been told by

704
00:35:56,822 --> 00:36:00,861
Speaker 1: their producers that in fact, it's just being renamed, and

705
00:36:00,862 --> 00:36:03,781
Speaker 1: they're telling me that it's going to be okay. It's

706
00:36:03,781 --> 00:36:07,462
Speaker 1: going to be called something called Dolorama, which is apparently

707
00:36:07,502 --> 00:36:12,742
Speaker 1: a Canadian chain that just doesn't have the same ring.

708
00:36:13,942 --> 00:36:17,221
Speaker 1: And I am going to suspend judgment on this and

709
00:36:17,302 --> 00:36:19,181
Speaker 1: wait to go and see it. But in the meantime,

710
00:36:19,302 --> 00:36:21,221
Speaker 1: thank you for the good times. Thank you for the

711
00:36:21,661 --> 00:36:25,182
Speaker 1: hairspray I have that has the name It's giving glam.

712
00:36:26,342 --> 00:36:30,261
Speaker 2: They sell impulse body spray there, guys, stop it now.

713
00:36:30,422 --> 00:36:30,582
Speaker 4: Oh.

714
00:36:32,502 --> 00:36:35,142
Speaker 1: I read a substack this week called once again I

715
00:36:35,181 --> 00:36:37,742
Speaker 1: wish I had kids younger that I have been busting

716
00:36:37,781 --> 00:36:39,622
Speaker 1: to talk to you too about because I know you'll

717
00:36:39,622 --> 00:36:42,782
Speaker 1: have a lot of feelings. Jim Dalrymple, who was thirty

718
00:36:42,822 --> 00:36:45,222
Speaker 1: six when he had his first child, said he started

719
00:36:45,221 --> 00:36:47,622
Speaker 1: thinking about the pros and cons of having kids younger

720
00:36:47,701 --> 00:36:51,422
Speaker 1: when the CEO of an AI company, Brad Weiss, tweeted

721
00:36:51,982 --> 00:36:55,862
Speaker 1: having kids before thirty is how you stay generationally poor,

722
00:36:56,062 --> 00:36:58,342
Speaker 1: and it caused quite the debate.

723
00:36:58,781 --> 00:36:59,701
Speaker 3: So why's later?

724
00:36:59,741 --> 00:37:01,861
Speaker 1: Clara Frid that what he meant is that having kids

725
00:37:01,902 --> 00:37:04,181
Speaker 1: young eats up your cash flow and your time, which

726
00:37:04,221 --> 00:37:07,542
Speaker 1: makes having kids sound like dodgy investment properties, and fair

727
00:37:07,741 --> 00:37:11,821
Speaker 1: kind of does. But Hrymple argues that the opposite might

728
00:37:11,822 --> 00:37:14,062
Speaker 1: be true when you consider what you could gain laiter

729
00:37:14,142 --> 00:37:17,182
Speaker 1: down the track by having kids early. So he says

730
00:37:17,181 --> 00:37:19,942
Speaker 1: in his piece, if I become a grandparent at sixty

731
00:37:19,982 --> 00:37:22,422
Speaker 1: two rather than seventy two, I might be able to

732
00:37:22,422 --> 00:37:25,142
Speaker 1: provide ten years of full time care for my grandkids.

733
00:37:25,502 --> 00:37:27,821
Speaker 1: This could be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to

734
00:37:27,862 --> 00:37:32,542
Speaker 1: my descendants. That's not generational poverty, it's generational wealth. Suddenly

735
00:37:32,582 --> 00:37:36,421
Speaker 1: having kids young is a financial advantage, And his whole

736
00:37:36,462 --> 00:37:39,502
Speaker 1: point is by having kids sooner, we can give ourselves

737
00:37:39,542 --> 00:37:42,022
Speaker 1: a more active, involved village, which is something a lot

738
00:37:42,102 --> 00:37:44,781
Speaker 1: of us millennials say that we don't really have, is

739
00:37:44,822 --> 00:37:48,181
Speaker 1: an involved village. He makes the point that millennials complain

740
00:37:48,502 --> 00:37:50,781
Speaker 1: that they don't have a village, but then go out

741
00:37:50,822 --> 00:37:53,542
Speaker 1: and make choices that will actively ensure our children also

742
00:37:53,622 --> 00:37:54,622
Speaker 1: don't have a village.

743
00:37:54,862 --> 00:37:55,822
Speaker 3: This is very.

744
00:37:55,622 --> 00:37:58,701
Speaker 1: Simplistic, like he acknowledges that not everyone is going to

745
00:37:58,701 --> 00:38:01,861
Speaker 1: have a village just by compressing the time span between generations.

746
00:38:01,862 --> 00:38:04,062
Speaker 1: Some people won't have a village, whether they have a

747
00:38:04,062 --> 00:38:06,422
Speaker 1: baby at twenty two or they have one at forty two.

748
00:38:06,862 --> 00:38:09,821
Speaker 1: But the point is that we could rethink the way

749
00:38:09,862 --> 00:38:13,421
Speaker 1: families are helping each other. So Mon's do you wish

750
00:38:13,422 --> 00:38:15,421
Speaker 1: you got cracking sooner? Now that you heard this.

751
00:38:15,542 --> 00:38:21,301
Speaker 2: Argument, Jim, Jim, Jim, I see your argument. I accept

752
00:38:21,502 --> 00:38:25,462
Speaker 2: your argument. What I don't accept is the thing that

753
00:38:25,502 --> 00:38:29,022
Speaker 2: he's missed entirely, which is the reason so many of

754
00:38:29,142 --> 00:38:32,942
Speaker 2: us don't have babies until like our thirties and older.

755
00:38:33,382 --> 00:38:36,261
Speaker 2: It's not just because we're making a choice about that.

756
00:38:36,622 --> 00:38:39,782
Speaker 2: There are all these systemic reasons, like there are huge

757
00:38:39,942 --> 00:38:43,542
Speaker 2: socio economic and social drivers that are related to this,

758
00:38:44,302 --> 00:38:48,661
Speaker 2: and here's my receipts. In Australia, the average age of

759
00:38:48,741 --> 00:38:52,301
Speaker 2: first time mums is twenty nine point nine years, so

760
00:38:52,582 --> 00:38:56,341
Speaker 2: almost thirty. In the nineteen seventies, which is where Jim

761
00:38:56,382 --> 00:39:01,542
Speaker 2: wants to live, it was twenty three. Demographers and social

762
00:39:01,582 --> 00:39:04,822
Speaker 2: researchers have looked at this, They're like, why are people

763
00:39:04,862 --> 00:39:08,941
Speaker 2: having babies older? Here's why women are spending more years

764
00:39:08,942 --> 00:39:13,822
Speaker 2: in hierogic, They're establishing careers. There are enormous economic pressures

765
00:39:13,822 --> 00:39:17,741
Speaker 2: on us right now. There's insecure work, there's better contraception,

766
00:39:17,942 --> 00:39:21,781
Speaker 2: which means more control over timing. Meeting someone is a

767
00:39:21,822 --> 00:39:25,821
Speaker 2: shit show. People are marrying their partners much later. So

768
00:39:25,862 --> 00:39:28,622
Speaker 2: the average age at marriage in Australia is now thirty

769
00:39:28,622 --> 00:39:31,421
Speaker 2: two for women thirty four for men. That's ten years

770
00:39:31,502 --> 00:39:34,222
Speaker 2: later than in the nineteen seventy so that pushes berths

771
00:39:34,261 --> 00:39:38,221
Speaker 2: further out. Also, FYI, it takes ten years now to

772
00:39:38,261 --> 00:39:40,781
Speaker 2: say for a house deposits. So I just think, yeah,

773
00:39:40,862 --> 00:39:44,382
Speaker 2: cool story, Jim. I see that, But the data doesn't

774
00:39:44,462 --> 00:39:47,342
Speaker 2: quite match up, and I think that that's the piece

775
00:39:47,382 --> 00:39:49,982
Speaker 2: that was missing for me here is it's not a

776
00:39:50,062 --> 00:39:53,181
Speaker 2: personal choice to have kids later. There's all these other

777
00:39:53,261 --> 00:39:56,781
Speaker 2: things happening around us. This is not just in Australia.

778
00:39:56,902 --> 00:39:59,982
Speaker 2: This is globally. If you zoom out, this is happening

779
00:40:00,022 --> 00:40:03,102
Speaker 2: across the EU, It's happening in Italy, Greece and Ireland,

780
00:40:03,342 --> 00:40:07,542
Speaker 2: it's happening in Asia. Maternal age is rising everywhere. There

781
00:40:07,542 --> 00:40:10,502
Speaker 2: are very few places that are sucking the trend here.

782
00:40:10,622 --> 00:40:13,862
Speaker 2: It's sort of rural India and some parts of northern Europe,

783
00:40:14,102 --> 00:40:18,062
Speaker 2: but mostly the average age of parents is rising because

784
00:40:18,102 --> 00:40:22,102
Speaker 2: we are being structurally funneled into it from all the

785
00:40:22,221 --> 00:40:23,302
Speaker 2: precious Jim.

786
00:40:24,741 --> 00:40:28,142
Speaker 1: I didn't like the article either at first. I did

787
00:40:28,422 --> 00:40:30,822
Speaker 1: at first. I read it and look, it's like everything

788
00:40:30,862 --> 00:40:34,022
Speaker 1: you disagree with politically often there's a kernel of truth

789
00:40:34,062 --> 00:40:36,221
Speaker 1: in it. And that's why on first read I was

790
00:40:36,302 --> 00:40:39,822
Speaker 1: kind of seduced by his thesis. Yes, thought, it's true.

791
00:40:40,062 --> 00:40:43,742
Speaker 1: You know when you have children older, your parents are older,

792
00:40:44,302 --> 00:40:48,382
Speaker 1: they are less into changing nappies because they are enjoying

793
00:40:48,462 --> 00:40:52,301
Speaker 1: their retirement, and you're older, so it's harder to wake

794
00:40:52,382 --> 00:40:55,422
Speaker 1: up in the morning. None of this can be disputed.

795
00:40:55,701 --> 00:40:59,742
Speaker 1: Getting older in general is not great and your energy

796
00:40:59,822 --> 00:41:02,902
Speaker 1: levels do drop. But then I started to think about

797
00:41:02,902 --> 00:41:06,181
Speaker 1: what Jim was saying, and I realized that he was

798
00:41:06,221 --> 00:41:09,742
Speaker 1: missing an elephant in the room, and that elephant is women.

799
00:41:10,661 --> 00:41:14,302
Speaker 1: He says, no, it's fine to have children young, because

800
00:41:14,382 --> 00:41:17,742
Speaker 1: it turns out that men who have children young actually

801
00:41:17,781 --> 00:41:21,701
Speaker 1: make more money than men who have children later. And

802
00:41:21,741 --> 00:41:25,142
Speaker 1: then I thought to myself, Yeah, but women who have

803
00:41:25,382 --> 00:41:30,142
Speaker 1: children younger make less money than women who have children later.

804
00:41:30,302 --> 00:41:33,462
Speaker 1: And you know why that is. It's because the motherhood

805
00:41:33,502 --> 00:41:37,742
Speaker 1: penalty is real. The Australian Breer Statistics shows that women

806
00:41:38,142 --> 00:41:41,262
Speaker 1: reduce their paid work hours by about thirty five percent

807
00:41:41,382 --> 00:41:44,102
Speaker 1: across the first five years after the arrival of children.

808
00:41:44,181 --> 00:41:47,142
Speaker 1: Australia has one of the highest rates of part time

809
00:41:47,181 --> 00:41:50,701
Speaker 1: work by women in the OECD. In some ways, that's great.

810
00:41:50,741 --> 00:41:53,142
Speaker 1: It means we get a lot more flexibility when our

811
00:41:53,221 --> 00:41:55,181
Speaker 1: children are young to give them the time that we

812
00:41:55,221 --> 00:41:57,661
Speaker 1: want to give them. In other ways, it means we're

813
00:41:57,701 --> 00:42:00,902
Speaker 1: missing out on income for retirement and for financial security

814
00:42:00,942 --> 00:42:03,901
Speaker 1: and stability because we're looking after children and we're taking

815
00:42:03,942 --> 00:42:07,661
Speaker 1: ourselves out of full time work. So the motherhood penalty

816
00:42:07,701 --> 00:42:10,261
Speaker 1: for women is real, and it's even more real when

817
00:42:10,342 --> 00:42:13,781
Speaker 1: you have kids younger. The other problem with it is

818
00:42:13,822 --> 00:42:17,261
Speaker 1: that when we talk about the village, let's be real,

819
00:42:17,342 --> 00:42:18,741
Speaker 1: we're talking about grandmothers, right.

820
00:42:19,022 --> 00:42:20,222
Speaker 3: That is so true.

821
00:42:20,302 --> 00:42:22,981
Speaker 1: That's what the village is. The village is just a

822
00:42:23,022 --> 00:42:27,701
Speaker 1: series of grandmothers making crowchheped blankets and doing the stuff.

823
00:42:28,181 --> 00:42:31,302
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the unpaid labor that women get loved with. Again,

824
00:42:31,542 --> 00:42:32,542
Speaker 2: good point, Amelia.

825
00:42:32,781 --> 00:42:35,701
Speaker 1: And the thing about grandmothers is they're not paid for

826
00:42:35,781 --> 00:42:39,702
Speaker 1: what they do. The village is unpaid labor and that's wonderful.

827
00:42:39,741 --> 00:42:42,582
Speaker 1: Grandmothers want to do it. They love their grandkids. But

828
00:42:43,302 --> 00:42:46,022
Speaker 1: we can't get away from the fact that we're basically

829
00:42:46,102 --> 00:42:49,502
Speaker 1: saying that we want more unpaid labor by women. And

830
00:42:49,622 --> 00:42:53,142
Speaker 1: one way Australians are actually pushing to strengthen that village

831
00:42:53,221 --> 00:42:56,782
Speaker 1: is they're pushing to include grandparents in the government childcare subsidy.

832
00:42:57,142 --> 00:43:00,062
Speaker 1: Parents around the nation are actually putting together a petition

833
00:43:00,142 --> 00:43:03,941
Speaker 1: for the Prime Minister to say why shouldn't grandparents get

834
00:43:03,982 --> 00:43:06,902
Speaker 1: the same kinds of financial reimbursement as other types of

835
00:43:06,982 --> 00:43:10,222
Speaker 1: care And I think that's a really solid step forward

836
00:43:10,462 --> 00:43:13,422
Speaker 1: rather than saying that women should take themselves out of

837
00:43:13,462 --> 00:43:16,782
Speaker 1: the workplace earlier to have children. Yeah, and it's also

838
00:43:17,221 --> 00:43:19,261
Speaker 1: in an ideal world that would be lovely if you

839
00:43:19,422 --> 00:43:22,781
Speaker 1: had your children earlier, your parents are around to help you.

840
00:43:23,142 --> 00:43:25,422
Speaker 1: But you can't bet on the fact that once you

841
00:43:25,502 --> 00:43:28,421
Speaker 1: get there, your parents will be around to help you.

842
00:43:28,502 --> 00:43:31,142
Speaker 1: Like that's assuming that nothing will go wrong for them

843
00:43:31,181 --> 00:43:33,261
Speaker 1: physically or health wise.

844
00:43:33,261 --> 00:43:36,301
Speaker 2: And assuming they're alive. Exactly, they have a relationship with

845
00:43:36,342 --> 00:43:37,461
Speaker 2: you as well, that's it.

846
00:43:37,502 --> 00:43:39,781
Speaker 1: That's not guaranteed that they're even going to be there.

847
00:43:39,781 --> 00:43:42,062
Speaker 1: And as you say, they're not paid workers. They can

848
00:43:42,142 --> 00:43:43,902
Speaker 1: change their mind at any time and say I'm not

849
00:43:43,942 --> 00:43:46,142
Speaker 1: helping you with this. Your kids are brat, you're on

850
00:43:46,181 --> 00:43:49,542
Speaker 1: your own, so you're not guaranteeing yourself a village. Obviously,

851
00:43:49,582 --> 00:43:52,022
Speaker 1: in an ideal world that would be lovely, But why

852
00:43:52,062 --> 00:43:54,781
Speaker 1: would I risk it and risk my earning capacity to

853
00:43:54,822 --> 00:43:55,702
Speaker 1: have a child earlier?

854
00:43:55,701 --> 00:43:56,301
Speaker 3: On what if?

855
00:43:56,701 --> 00:43:59,942
Speaker 1: Sorry Jim, Sorry. I love that more men are writing

856
00:44:00,022 --> 00:44:03,502
Speaker 1: about parenting. And yes, I think Jim's got a terrific

857
00:44:03,542 --> 00:44:06,582
Speaker 1: newsletter which I have subscribed to because I do want

858
00:44:06,582 --> 00:44:09,142
Speaker 1: to hear more perspectives from men. And it's really refreshing

859
00:44:09,181 --> 00:44:12,982
Speaker 1: to have a man talk frankly about his regrets in fatherhood,

860
00:44:13,022 --> 00:44:15,781
Speaker 1: but turns out he really is pushing an gender. He

861
00:44:15,862 --> 00:44:18,662
Speaker 1: also writes for a conservative think tank in the US

862
00:44:18,701 --> 00:44:23,902
Speaker 1: that's dedicated to strengthening marriage hint, heterosexual marriage and families.

863
00:44:24,261 --> 00:44:26,781
Speaker 1: And I think blessed Jim, Like, even if we subscribe

864
00:44:26,822 --> 00:44:29,222
Speaker 1: to this idea that we should be having them younger,

865
00:44:29,542 --> 00:44:32,421
Speaker 1: I think we can all probably admit whether we it's

866
00:44:32,502 --> 00:44:34,502
Speaker 1: not a great trait. But when you hear of someone

867
00:44:34,542 --> 00:44:37,142
Speaker 1: who's had a baby at twenty two, twenty three, your

868
00:44:37,181 --> 00:44:40,261
Speaker 1: first question is, one, was that on purpose? Did they

869
00:44:40,302 --> 00:44:41,142
Speaker 1: mean to do that?

870
00:44:41,781 --> 00:44:42,382
Speaker 3: And two?

871
00:44:43,022 --> 00:44:44,661
Speaker 1: How are they going to do this now? Who's going

872
00:44:44,701 --> 00:44:46,462
Speaker 1: to help them look after that baby? How are they

873
00:44:46,462 --> 00:44:47,981
Speaker 1: going to move ahead in their career? Like I get

874
00:44:48,022 --> 00:44:51,062
Speaker 1: secondhand stress for women that have them younger because I

875
00:44:51,102 --> 00:44:53,821
Speaker 1: think about how hard it would be to parent at

876
00:44:53,822 --> 00:44:57,261
Speaker 1: that age. It will help out. Yeah, God, Stacy, what.

877
00:44:57,382 --> 00:44:59,102
Speaker 2: They've got all the energy in the world. That's the

878
00:44:59,142 --> 00:45:01,142
Speaker 2: best age to be a parent. That's what you say.

879
00:45:01,181 --> 00:45:03,422
Speaker 3: That's true, But it is a young person's game. And

880
00:45:03,462 --> 00:45:04,142
Speaker 3: that is the thing.

881
00:45:04,302 --> 00:45:06,462
Speaker 1: Like, really, when you look at all of the studies

882
00:45:06,502 --> 00:45:08,902
Speaker 1: around when is actually best for us to conceive and

883
00:45:08,942 --> 00:45:11,942
Speaker 1: when would quate to the lowest risk pregnancy. It is

884
00:45:11,942 --> 00:45:14,261
Speaker 1: in our mid twenties to late twenties, Like that is

885
00:45:14,302 --> 00:45:16,781
Speaker 1: when we should be having them, but we're just too

886
00:45:16,781 --> 00:45:18,942
Speaker 1: busy getting our shit in order to do.

887
00:45:18,862 --> 00:45:22,221
Speaker 2: It all right. To wrap up today's show, we're going

888
00:45:22,261 --> 00:45:24,181
Speaker 2: to share the things that we're loving, sick things that

889
00:45:24,221 --> 00:45:25,982
Speaker 2: we might text to our friends or put in a

890
00:45:26,062 --> 00:45:28,462
Speaker 2: mum's group chat. Amelia.

891
00:45:28,622 --> 00:45:32,301
Speaker 1: So, I have discovered a book series that I want

892
00:45:32,302 --> 00:45:35,701
Speaker 1: to read just as much, if not more than my children.

893
00:45:35,982 --> 00:45:39,102
Speaker 1: And it's called Percy Jackson and the Olympians. This is

894
00:45:39,142 --> 00:45:43,182
Speaker 1: a series that inspires absolute devotion and adoration and people.

895
00:45:43,221 --> 00:45:44,941
Speaker 1: And I guess I've been living under a rock because

896
00:45:44,942 --> 00:45:47,221
Speaker 1: I only recently discovered it. The book started coming out

897
00:45:47,261 --> 00:45:49,221
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five that by an author called

898
00:45:49,342 --> 00:45:52,181
Speaker 1: Rick Reordan. I pick one up at the bookshop and

899
00:45:52,221 --> 00:45:54,341
Speaker 1: I took it to the counter and the young woman

900
00:45:54,382 --> 00:45:57,861
Speaker 1: behind the counter literally gasped and said, this is the

901
00:45:57,862 --> 00:46:00,381
Speaker 1: book that got me into reading. And now she works

902
00:46:00,382 --> 00:46:02,982
Speaker 1: at a bookshop, so she's very into reading. And I

903
00:46:03,022 --> 00:46:05,262
Speaker 1: took it home and started reading it to my children.

904
00:46:05,462 --> 00:46:10,221
Speaker 1: And look, they think it's fine. I'm obsessed, Like, can

905
00:46:10,261 --> 00:46:13,102
Speaker 1: we start doing bedtime reading at six point thirty when

906
00:46:13,102 --> 00:46:15,261
Speaker 1: bedtime is eight, just so we can read more of

907
00:46:15,302 --> 00:46:18,021
Speaker 1: the books. There are fantasy series. They're about a twelve

908
00:46:18,102 --> 00:46:21,661
Speaker 1: year old kid who travels across America to recover Zusa's

909
00:46:21,741 --> 00:46:26,022
Speaker 1: lightning Bolt. They're based on Greek mythology. They're so exciting,

910
00:46:26,221 --> 00:46:29,982
Speaker 1: they're so gripping, and they're a page turner for kids

911
00:46:30,022 --> 00:46:31,062
Speaker 1: and adults alike.

912
00:46:31,422 --> 00:46:33,462
Speaker 2: That's great. I love that. Did you start with a

913
00:46:33,502 --> 00:46:35,301
Speaker 2: particular one? Is it a series that you have to

914
00:46:35,302 --> 00:46:36,622
Speaker 2: start at zero? Yeah?

915
00:46:36,701 --> 00:46:38,981
Speaker 1: Start at zero. The first book's called The Lightning Thief.

916
00:46:39,022 --> 00:46:40,981
Speaker 1: But there's so many in the series. So the good

917
00:46:41,022 --> 00:46:43,781
Speaker 1: news is you have a lot of great reading ahead

918
00:46:43,822 --> 00:46:43,982
Speaker 1: of you.

919
00:46:44,261 --> 00:46:48,901
Speaker 2: I've been reading Rolldal to my kids, whoa role like whoa?

920
00:46:49,062 --> 00:46:52,822
Speaker 2: The world has changed. I was reading The Magic Finger

921
00:46:52,982 --> 00:46:55,421
Speaker 2: to the middle of Night. Do you remember this one?

922
00:46:55,741 --> 00:46:59,661
Speaker 2: The kids have guns in it.

923
00:46:58,342 --> 00:47:00,302
Speaker 1: Is The Gunner Magic Fingers.

924
00:47:00,582 --> 00:47:05,261
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, it's just like wow, another time Rodal did

925
00:47:05,302 --> 00:47:08,741
Speaker 2: not give a shit about like being careful around language

926
00:47:08,902 --> 00:47:12,862
Speaker 2: or he's just yeah, it's really cool to read, Stacy, Stacy,

927
00:47:12,902 --> 00:47:13,861
Speaker 2: what are you recommending?

928
00:47:14,382 --> 00:47:16,862
Speaker 1: So despite us something doing this show for a few weeks,

929
00:47:16,902 --> 00:47:19,862
Speaker 1: I felt like I had run out of recommendations yesterday,

930
00:47:20,422 --> 00:47:22,582
Speaker 1: and I of course made that my husband's problem.

931
00:47:22,741 --> 00:47:24,462
Speaker 3: I was like, do a lap of.

932
00:47:24,422 --> 00:47:27,942
Speaker 1: The house, look around at our daughter's stuff and see

933
00:47:27,982 --> 00:47:30,421
Speaker 1: if there's anything that I should be recommending. And as

934
00:47:30,422 --> 00:47:33,142
Speaker 1: I've got him on that wild goose chase, I found

935
00:47:33,181 --> 00:47:36,301
Speaker 1: the thing that I wanted to recommend. So it only

936
00:47:36,302 --> 00:47:38,421
Speaker 1: cost me twelve dollars and I bought it five years

937
00:47:38,462 --> 00:47:40,382
Speaker 1: ago and I still use it every single day and

938
00:47:40,382 --> 00:47:41,181
Speaker 1: they still have them.

939
00:47:41,221 --> 00:47:41,782
Speaker 3: I've checked.

940
00:47:42,382 --> 00:47:46,301
Speaker 1: It's a nappy caddy from Kmart, so I'm well out

941
00:47:46,302 --> 00:47:49,702
Speaker 1: of the nappy stage. But they're just a cute little box,

942
00:47:49,822 --> 00:47:51,701
Speaker 1: chic looking little box with a handle on the top,

943
00:47:52,302 --> 00:47:55,502
Speaker 1: and I use it now as like the shit bits box.

944
00:47:55,822 --> 00:47:57,542
Speaker 1: So you know when you find like a piece of

945
00:47:57,542 --> 00:47:59,261
Speaker 1: a toy and you have no idea where the rest

946
00:47:59,302 --> 00:48:01,661
Speaker 1: of that toy is and you put it in that

947
00:48:01,741 --> 00:48:04,341
Speaker 1: pile next to your fruit bowl, like where Haemish and

948
00:48:04,342 --> 00:48:06,502
Speaker 1: Andy talk about this in my podcast. Why do you

949
00:48:06,582 --> 00:48:10,622
Speaker 1: know about my house? Because we all have I clouses

950
00:48:11,661 --> 00:48:13,542
Speaker 1: and you just end up with all this crap that

951
00:48:13,582 --> 00:48:15,462
Speaker 1: you don't know where it's meant to go and all

952
00:48:15,462 --> 00:48:18,462
Speaker 1: my daughter's like hair stuff. You know, you're the curl

953
00:48:18,502 --> 00:48:21,582
Speaker 1: cream and the tangling brush and all those bits. I

954
00:48:21,862 --> 00:48:25,102
Speaker 1: use that nappy caddy still for all of those bits.

955
00:48:25,221 --> 00:48:26,821
Speaker 1: And now I've got a second one to stop the

956
00:48:26,862 --> 00:48:29,582
Speaker 1: fruit bowl pile from piling up. So just pulled all

957
00:48:29,582 --> 00:48:31,341
Speaker 1: the little bits in there and figure it out later.

958
00:48:31,701 --> 00:48:32,862
Speaker 1: That's later mess problem.

959
00:48:33,022 --> 00:48:36,181
Speaker 2: Are you literally recommending a bin like a bin?

960
00:48:36,862 --> 00:48:37,062
Speaker 1: No?

961
00:48:37,661 --> 00:48:40,421
Speaker 3: There are things that you can't throw out, yes.

962
00:48:40,142 --> 00:48:42,102
Speaker 1: Because you know that the kid's going to be like,

963
00:48:42,181 --> 00:48:45,341
Speaker 1: where is the one small bit of a toy that

964
00:48:45,622 --> 00:48:49,301
Speaker 1: I desperately need? Yes, exactly you need them at some

965
00:48:49,542 --> 00:48:52,221
Speaker 1: point maybe, but you can't throw them out.

966
00:48:52,342 --> 00:48:53,701
Speaker 3: So that's where this stuff goes.

967
00:48:53,902 --> 00:48:56,741
Speaker 2: Doesn't it stink though from all the nappy odor that

968
00:48:56,902 --> 00:48:58,022
Speaker 2: seeped into the plastic.

969
00:48:58,582 --> 00:49:01,022
Speaker 1: No, I don't know about your nappy. No, I'm not

970
00:49:01,022 --> 00:49:04,221
Speaker 1: taling about a nappy bin, mons. I'm talking about a

971
00:49:04,261 --> 00:49:06,821
Speaker 1: little square box with a little handle on top of

972
00:49:06,862 --> 00:49:07,822
Speaker 1: the dirty nappies.

973
00:49:07,902 --> 00:49:08,982
Speaker 3: Never went anywhere near.

974
00:49:08,862 --> 00:49:12,022
Speaker 1: It is the one that you keep like the wife's

975
00:49:12,622 --> 00:49:15,822
Speaker 1: the clean nappies, gotcha the moisturizer?

976
00:49:16,022 --> 00:49:16,981
Speaker 2: Okay, all right?

977
00:49:17,382 --> 00:49:20,062
Speaker 3: Oh my god, No, that bin is long gone.

978
00:49:20,261 --> 00:49:22,742
Speaker 1: That bin has gone to the tip that was foul,

979
00:49:22,902 --> 00:49:24,142
Speaker 1: never to be returned to my house.

980
00:49:24,221 --> 00:49:26,181
Speaker 2: My god, I thought you were just throwing everything in

981
00:49:26,181 --> 00:49:29,181
Speaker 2: the stinking like yeah, here for that.

982
00:49:30,302 --> 00:49:33,542
Speaker 1: Anyway, they're like ten to twenty bucks at kmar and

983
00:49:33,582 --> 00:49:34,501
Speaker 1: we'll put a link to one.

984
00:49:34,382 --> 00:49:37,701
Speaker 2: Of lid on it Stacey, so you can cover the

985
00:49:37,741 --> 00:49:38,342
Speaker 2: ship bits.

986
00:49:38,741 --> 00:49:40,862
Speaker 1: No, the bits are free and loose, but it's fine.

987
00:49:41,022 --> 00:49:44,741
Speaker 1: Got confused shit bits. You're imatching little bits of shit

988
00:49:44,862 --> 00:49:46,382
Speaker 1: in there. I'm so sorry.

989
00:49:46,422 --> 00:49:47,342
Speaker 3: That's on memons.

990
00:49:47,382 --> 00:49:52,661
Speaker 2: That's what's your reco I've got this this hidden Netflix

991
00:49:52,902 --> 00:49:55,301
Speaker 2: gem that I can't stop watching right now, neither can

992
00:49:55,342 --> 00:49:58,781
Speaker 2: my kids. It's not K Pop Demon Hunters. It's Toddler's

993
00:49:58,942 --> 00:50:02,502
Speaker 2: Running Errands. It's a show called Old Enough. It's a

994
00:50:02,622 --> 00:50:07,421
Speaker 2: Japanese show where they send two three and four year

995
00:50:07,422 --> 00:50:11,142
Speaker 2: olds off into the world to errands completely on their own,

996
00:50:11,181 --> 00:50:13,181
Speaker 2: and then they film them with hidden cameras.

997
00:50:13,261 --> 00:50:14,302
Speaker 3: Have they got tracking apps?

998
00:50:14,342 --> 00:50:17,982
Speaker 2: I must know there are no tracking apps. Literally. I

999
00:50:18,022 --> 00:50:20,261
Speaker 2: watched one last night where a woman said to her

1000
00:50:20,342 --> 00:50:22,902
Speaker 2: three year old, take my pants to the store and

1001
00:50:22,902 --> 00:50:27,062
Speaker 2: get them mended, and I cannot stop watching it. It's

1002
00:50:27,102 --> 00:50:31,622
Speaker 2: equal parts adorable and terrifying, like you will laugh, you

1003
00:50:31,661 --> 00:50:35,662
Speaker 2: will gasp, you'll cheer for these toddlers, like these preschoolers.

1004
00:50:36,142 --> 00:50:38,462
Speaker 2: And my kids love it too, even though they can't

1005
00:50:38,502 --> 00:50:42,102
Speaker 2: quite understand it because it's in Japanese, so there's subtitles,

1006
00:50:42,102 --> 00:50:44,422
Speaker 2: but they can't completely read them all. It's going to

1007
00:50:44,502 --> 00:50:46,862
Speaker 2: make you want to send your kids out for errands

1008
00:50:46,902 --> 00:50:49,982
Speaker 2: too without a tracker, which is, you know, sometimes a

1009
00:50:49,982 --> 00:50:50,341
Speaker 2: good thing.

1010
00:50:50,582 --> 00:50:54,502
Speaker 1: How successful are they fulfilling the errands? Did she get

1011
00:50:54,502 --> 00:50:55,181
Speaker 1: the pants hammed?

1012
00:50:55,582 --> 00:50:58,981
Speaker 2: Yes? They do the most amazing things, some of these kids,

1013
00:50:59,142 --> 00:51:01,221
Speaker 2: and they show you during the show. They say they

1014
00:51:01,261 --> 00:51:03,622
Speaker 2: have to walk three hundred meters, they need to cross

1015
00:51:03,661 --> 00:51:06,661
Speaker 2: two roads, so they set it up and yes, these

1016
00:51:06,741 --> 00:51:09,781
Speaker 2: kids are so capable at such a young age. It's

1017
00:51:09,862 --> 00:51:12,942
Speaker 2: amazing to watch. And now since we've watched it, my

1018
00:51:13,022 --> 00:51:15,022
Speaker 2: kids keep saying, Mum, send me on an errand I

1019
00:51:15,062 --> 00:51:16,382
Speaker 2: want to go to the shops by myself.

1020
00:51:16,462 --> 00:51:19,301
Speaker 3: So this is definitely watching this great wreck.

1021
00:51:19,701 --> 00:51:20,942
Speaker 2: You know what, We'll put a link to all of

1022
00:51:20,982 --> 00:51:23,302
Speaker 2: our reps in the show notes in case your brain

1023
00:51:23,342 --> 00:51:25,622
Speaker 2: is a sieve. That is all we have time for

1024
00:51:25,701 --> 00:51:28,542
Speaker 2: this week on Parenting Out Loud. Now, last week I

1025
00:51:28,582 --> 00:51:31,062
Speaker 2: told you something I was not supposed to tell you all.

1026
00:51:31,181 --> 00:51:33,781
Speaker 2: I said, hey, we're in the Mamamea out Loud feed

1027
00:51:33,822 --> 00:51:37,102
Speaker 2: for just a few weeks. So if you like this show,

1028
00:51:37,661 --> 00:51:40,981
Speaker 2: come and follow it, because if you don't, it might

1029
00:51:41,102 --> 00:51:45,142
Speaker 2: not survive. That's actually a reality. I've got a fun

1030
00:51:45,181 --> 00:51:48,302
Speaker 2: fact for you both. There are ten times the amount

1031
00:51:48,302 --> 00:51:50,582
Speaker 2: of people listening to this in the Mama Mea out

1032
00:51:50,622 --> 00:51:53,301
Speaker 2: Loud feed compared to the Parenting out Loud feed. One

1033
00:51:53,342 --> 00:51:55,502
Speaker 2: in ten people went and followed and the rest were

1034
00:51:55,542 --> 00:51:58,261
Speaker 2: like nah nah. So I want to say huge thank

1035
00:51:58,302 --> 00:52:01,181
Speaker 2: you to the people who did. You are elite, You're

1036
00:52:01,221 --> 00:52:03,942
Speaker 2: in the one percent. You are the early adopters. Thank you,

1037
00:52:04,422 --> 00:52:06,661
Speaker 2: and for the rest of you, if you do like

1038
00:52:06,741 --> 00:52:09,102
Speaker 2: this show, come on over to the Parenting out Loud

1039
00:52:09,102 --> 00:52:11,062
Speaker 2: feed and if not, you know what will be out

1040
00:52:11,102 --> 00:52:13,382
Speaker 2: of your hair in a couple of weeks. The best

1041
00:52:13,502 --> 00:52:16,102
Speaker 2: way to help us is to just do that. So

1042
00:52:16,142 --> 00:52:19,102
Speaker 2: search for Parenting out Loud in your podcast app, find

1043
00:52:19,181 --> 00:52:22,821
Speaker 2: the show it's a purple logo, and hit follow and

1044
00:52:22,862 --> 00:52:25,941
Speaker 2: then maybe, just maybe we will get to number one

1045
00:52:25,942 --> 00:52:29,102
Speaker 2: ahead of Daria of a CEO. A huge thank you

1046
00:52:29,181 --> 00:52:32,221
Speaker 2: to our team. The group ep is Ruth devine produces

1047
00:52:32,302 --> 00:52:36,542
Speaker 2: Leah Porgius and Sashutanic and researcher Tessa Kodovich. Have a

1048
00:52:36,542 --> 00:52:38,662
Speaker 2: great week. We'll talk to you next Saturday morning.

1049
00:52:38,942 --> 00:52:42,022
Speaker 3: See then bye,