1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,294 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges 2 00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,174 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:22,174 Speaker 1: is recorded on. Hi. I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mamma 4 00:00:22,214 --> 00:00:25,334 Speaker 1: MIA's daily news podcast, The Quickie. Coming up later on 5 00:00:25,374 --> 00:00:27,654 Speaker 1: the show, we'll be speaking with a woman who knows 6 00:00:27,814 --> 00:00:32,054 Speaker 1: exactly how the children of Cereal sperm donor Jonathan Jacob Meyers, 7 00:00:32,214 --> 00:00:35,054 Speaker 1: who's the center of the shocking Netflix documentary The Man 8 00:00:35,054 --> 00:00:37,934 Speaker 1: with One Thousand Kids will feel when they grow up. 9 00:00:38,214 --> 00:00:41,174 Speaker 1: She thinks she may have as many as seven hundred 10 00:00:41,214 --> 00:00:45,334 Speaker 1: siblings out there after her biological father also bypassed checks 11 00:00:45,334 --> 00:00:48,254 Speaker 1: and measures to make sure this doesn't happen. But before 12 00:00:48,254 --> 00:00:50,454 Speaker 1: we get into that, here's a special report on the 13 00:00:50,494 --> 00:00:54,494 Speaker 1: attempted assassination of former President Donald Trump, the first time 14 00:00:54,534 --> 00:00:57,214 Speaker 1: a current or former president has been injured in an 15 00:00:57,254 --> 00:01:01,054 Speaker 1: assassination attempt since Ronald Reagan was shot and wounded all 16 00:01:01,094 --> 00:01:04,174 Speaker 1: the way back in nineteen eighty one. At approximately six 17 00:01:04,334 --> 00:01:08,534 Speaker 1: fifteen pm Saturday night in Pennsylvania. Early yesterday morning, our time, 18 00:01:08,814 --> 00:01:11,334 Speaker 1: Donald Trump was holding a campaign rally in the town 19 00:01:11,334 --> 00:01:13,854 Speaker 1: of Butler when a shooter fired from the rooftop of 20 00:01:13,894 --> 00:01:14,774 Speaker 1: a nearby building. 21 00:01:14,854 --> 00:01:16,494 Speaker 2: If you want to really. 22 00:01:16,214 --> 00:01:18,654 Speaker 3: See something that said, take a look at what happened 23 00:01:18,654 --> 00:01:20,574 Speaker 3: on him. 24 00:01:20,694 --> 00:01:23,854 Speaker 1: Witnesses described in the aftermath to the BBC that they 25 00:01:23,854 --> 00:01:26,414 Speaker 1: had tried to warn police that a man was army 26 00:01:26,454 --> 00:01:29,414 Speaker 1: crawling across the roof of a building that was situated 27 00:01:29,534 --> 00:01:32,134 Speaker 1: just outside the venue where the rally was being held, 28 00:01:32,494 --> 00:01:34,254 Speaker 1: but no one responded fifty. 29 00:01:33,974 --> 00:01:34,814 Speaker 4: Feet away from us. 30 00:01:35,414 --> 00:01:38,294 Speaker 1: So we're standing there, you know, we're we're pointing at 31 00:01:38,334 --> 00:01:39,694 Speaker 1: the guy crawling up the roof. 32 00:01:39,734 --> 00:01:41,494 Speaker 5: And he had a gun, right, he had a rifle. 33 00:01:41,814 --> 00:01:43,414 Speaker 4: We could clearly see him with a rifle. 34 00:01:43,614 --> 00:01:45,734 Speaker 1: As the shots cracked out across the space, you can 35 00:01:45,774 --> 00:01:49,054 Speaker 1: see Trump reach for his right ear, hesitate for a moment, 36 00:01:49,294 --> 00:01:51,894 Speaker 1: and then duck down behind the lectern as his secret 37 00:01:51,934 --> 00:01:54,774 Speaker 1: servant agents rushed to cover him and remove him from 38 00:01:54,814 --> 00:01:58,254 Speaker 1: the stage. Photos taken in the immediate aftermath showed Trump 39 00:01:58,254 --> 00:02:01,174 Speaker 1: on his knees, blood running down his face from the wound. 40 00:02:01,534 --> 00:02:04,134 Speaker 1: After being bundled out of the venue, lifting his fist 41 00:02:04,214 --> 00:02:06,574 Speaker 1: high in defiance to a plane waiting to fly him 42 00:02:06,614 --> 00:02:09,094 Speaker 1: back to New Jersey. He quickly took to his social 43 00:02:09,094 --> 00:02:12,494 Speaker 1: media place truth Social to explain that he was okay. 44 00:02:12,574 --> 00:02:14,734 Speaker 5: I want to thank the United States Secret Service and 45 00:02:14,814 --> 00:02:16,894 Speaker 5: all of law enforcement for their rapid response in the 46 00:02:16,894 --> 00:02:19,934 Speaker 5: shooting that just took place in Butler, Pennsylvania. Most importantly, 47 00:02:19,974 --> 00:02:22,054 Speaker 5: I want to extend my condolences to the family of 48 00:02:22,094 --> 00:02:24,214 Speaker 5: the person at the rally who was killed, and also 49 00:02:24,214 --> 00:02:26,574 Speaker 5: to the family of another person that was badly injured. 50 00:02:26,974 --> 00:02:28,934 Speaker 5: It is incredible that such an aat can take place 51 00:02:28,974 --> 00:02:31,454 Speaker 5: in our country. Nothing is known at this time about 52 00:02:31,454 --> 00:02:33,694 Speaker 5: the shooter, who is now dead. I was shot with 53 00:02:33,694 --> 00:02:35,814 Speaker 5: a bullet that pierced the upper part of my right ear. 54 00:02:36,174 --> 00:02:38,534 Speaker 5: I knew immediately that something was wrong in that I 55 00:02:38,574 --> 00:02:41,734 Speaker 5: heard whizzing sound shots and immediately felt the bullet ripping 56 00:02:41,734 --> 00:02:44,654 Speaker 5: through the skin. Much bleeding took place, so I realized 57 00:02:44,654 --> 00:02:47,014 Speaker 5: then what was happening. God bless America. 58 00:02:47,054 --> 00:02:49,974 Speaker 1: The Secret Service released a statement not long after saying 59 00:02:50,014 --> 00:02:53,054 Speaker 1: that the shooter had been neutralized. Photos of the man 60 00:02:53,214 --> 00:02:56,454 Speaker 1: lying on the roof quickly racing around social media. Some 61 00:02:56,734 --> 00:02:59,214 Speaker 1: right wing groups had blamed a man who was allegedly 62 00:02:59,214 --> 00:03:02,214 Speaker 1: a member of Antifa, the left wing anti fascist group, 63 00:03:02,294 --> 00:03:05,534 Speaker 1: as the shooter, but that was not the truth. The 64 00:03:05,734 --> 00:03:08,494 Speaker 1: FBI later released that it was twenty year old local 65 00:03:08,574 --> 00:03:12,654 Speaker 1: man Thomas Matthew Crooks, who lived about seventy kilometers from 66 00:03:12,654 --> 00:03:15,414 Speaker 1: the shooting site. The motive for the attack has still 67 00:03:15,454 --> 00:03:18,734 Speaker 1: not been established. A local police officer had climbed on 68 00:03:18,774 --> 00:03:20,894 Speaker 1: the roof where the shooter was lining up his target, 69 00:03:21,214 --> 00:03:23,934 Speaker 1: but Crooks reportedly aimed his rifle at him, so he 70 00:03:24,014 --> 00:03:27,254 Speaker 1: retreated back down a ladder. Crooks then shot towards Trump 71 00:03:27,334 --> 00:03:31,534 Speaker 1: before the Secret Service returned. Fire officials have revealed the 72 00:03:31,574 --> 00:03:34,694 Speaker 1: bomb making materials were found inside Crook's car and back 73 00:03:34,734 --> 00:03:36,934 Speaker 1: at his home, but are not sure how he came 74 00:03:36,974 --> 00:03:39,174 Speaker 1: to have the gun in his possession, as it was 75 00:03:39,214 --> 00:03:43,294 Speaker 1: purchased by his father six months ago. Initial investigations into 76 00:03:43,374 --> 00:03:46,854 Speaker 1: his political background also haven't helped establish a motive, with 77 00:03:47,014 --> 00:03:50,454 Speaker 1: records showing he was registered as a Republican voter but 78 00:03:50,574 --> 00:03:54,294 Speaker 1: had given fifteen dollars to a Progressive political action committee 79 00:03:54,294 --> 00:03:57,414 Speaker 1: in January twenty twenty one, the day Joe Biden was 80 00:03:57,414 --> 00:04:00,614 Speaker 1: sworn into office. The FBI also explained that they could 81 00:04:00,614 --> 00:04:04,214 Speaker 1: not identify whether Trump's injuries were actually from the bullet 82 00:04:04,614 --> 00:04:07,534 Speaker 1: or from breaking glass fragments, but that one person in 83 00:04:07,574 --> 00:04:10,694 Speaker 1: the crowd had been killed and two other were critically injured. 84 00:04:10,934 --> 00:04:14,334 Speaker 1: The victim has been identified overnight as former fire chief 85 00:04:14,414 --> 00:04:18,174 Speaker 1: Corey Compretori, his wife, telling the governor of Pennsylvania that 86 00:04:18,214 --> 00:04:22,054 Speaker 1: he dove over his family to protect them. The response 87 00:04:22,054 --> 00:04:25,254 Speaker 1: from Trump's friends, family, and political colleagues in allies was 88 00:04:25,334 --> 00:04:28,134 Speaker 1: all in agreeance. Regardless of where you stand in this election, 89 00:04:28,454 --> 00:04:31,974 Speaker 1: this is not the answer. His daughter, Ivanka thanked those 90 00:04:32,014 --> 00:04:34,094 Speaker 1: who protected her dad via social media. 91 00:04:34,214 --> 00:04:36,214 Speaker 6: Thank you for your love and prayers for my father 92 00:04:36,534 --> 00:04:40,294 Speaker 6: and for the other victims of today's senseless violence in Butler, Pennsylvania. 93 00:04:40,574 --> 00:04:42,974 Speaker 6: I'm grateful to the Secret Service and all the other 94 00:04:43,054 --> 00:04:46,734 Speaker 6: law enforcement officers their quick and decisive actions today. I 95 00:04:46,774 --> 00:04:49,334 Speaker 6: continue to pray for our country. I love you, Dad, 96 00:04:49,334 --> 00:04:50,414 Speaker 6: today and always. 97 00:04:50,694 --> 00:04:54,254 Speaker 1: Democratic Congresswoman Gabrielle Gifford wrote that she knows all too 98 00:04:54,294 --> 00:04:57,014 Speaker 1: well how violence of this kind can be, having been 99 00:04:57,054 --> 00:05:00,094 Speaker 1: the target of an assassination attempt herself in twenty eleven 100 00:05:00,374 --> 00:05:03,614 Speaker 1: that left her with severe injuries. She says she's holding 101 00:05:03,654 --> 00:05:06,374 Speaker 1: President Trump in her heart and that political violence is 102 00:05:06,454 --> 00:05:10,574 Speaker 1: Unamerican Independent presidential candidate Robert F. KA Kenedy Junior, who 103 00:05:10,614 --> 00:05:13,934 Speaker 1: was fourteen when he witnessed his father's assassination in La 104 00:05:14,294 --> 00:05:17,254 Speaker 1: and lived in the shadow of his uncle JFK's assassination 105 00:05:17,334 --> 00:05:20,694 Speaker 1: all his life. Says he understands the implications this has 106 00:05:20,734 --> 00:05:23,334 Speaker 1: for the country, but called on the people of America 107 00:05:23,454 --> 00:05:27,014 Speaker 1: to use this moment to unify and renounce violence. Australian 108 00:05:27,014 --> 00:05:29,934 Speaker 1: Prime Minister Anthony Albenezi front at a press conference, making 109 00:05:30,014 --> 00:05:33,734 Speaker 1: it clear that this kind of action is unacceptable. 110 00:05:33,134 --> 00:05:36,854 Speaker 7: In Australia as in the United States. The essence and 111 00:05:36,934 --> 00:05:40,854 Speaker 7: the purpose of our democracies is that we can express 112 00:05:40,894 --> 00:05:47,054 Speaker 7: our views, debate our disagreements, and resolve our differences peacefully. 113 00:05:47,534 --> 00:05:50,334 Speaker 7: We do so with respect for each other and in 114 00:05:50,374 --> 00:05:54,574 Speaker 7: the spirit of a shared love of our country. Any 115 00:05:54,614 --> 00:05:57,374 Speaker 7: act of violence is in affront to that and must 116 00:05:57,454 --> 00:05:59,294 Speaker 7: be condemned unequivocally. 117 00:05:59,534 --> 00:06:02,654 Speaker 1: President Joe Biden, who's been fighting this past fortnite to 118 00:06:02,694 --> 00:06:05,614 Speaker 1: regain any momentum lost in the wake of the disastrous 119 00:06:05,654 --> 00:06:09,174 Speaker 1: presidential debate now two weeks ago, was also quick to 120 00:06:09,174 --> 00:06:10,134 Speaker 1: condemn the attack. 121 00:06:10,334 --> 00:06:12,814 Speaker 8: There's no place in America for this kind of violence. 122 00:06:12,894 --> 00:06:13,414 Speaker 4: It's sick. 123 00:06:13,654 --> 00:06:15,134 Speaker 8: It's one of the reason why we have to unite 124 00:06:15,134 --> 00:06:18,374 Speaker 8: this country. We cannot allow for this to be happening. 125 00:06:18,414 --> 00:06:21,814 Speaker 8: We cannot be like this. We cannot condone this. The 126 00:06:22,054 --> 00:06:24,854 Speaker 8: Trump rally, a rally that he should have been able 127 00:06:24,854 --> 00:06:28,974 Speaker 8: to be conducted peacefully without any problem. But the idea, 128 00:06:29,294 --> 00:06:32,974 Speaker 8: the idea that there's political violence or violence in America 129 00:06:33,054 --> 00:06:35,694 Speaker 8: like this is just unheard of. It's just not appropriate, 130 00:06:35,934 --> 00:06:38,254 Speaker 8: and everybody, everybody must condemn it. 131 00:06:38,334 --> 00:06:41,574 Speaker 1: Chas Ligadello, co host of the ABC's Planet America, says 132 00:06:41,574 --> 00:06:45,374 Speaker 1: that Biden's response to the shooting has been anything but inspirational. 133 00:06:45,654 --> 00:06:47,934 Speaker 1: But in the moments after something as tragic as this, 134 00:06:48,054 --> 00:06:51,494 Speaker 1: where an innocent life was lost, a former president threatened, 135 00:06:51,574 --> 00:06:54,454 Speaker 1: and people in a critical condition, now isn't the time 136 00:06:54,494 --> 00:06:55,174 Speaker 1: to unpack that. 137 00:06:55,414 --> 00:06:59,494 Speaker 3: I don't think Joe Biden's first response to the shooting 138 00:06:59,614 --> 00:07:03,374 Speaker 3: was magnificent, but I think we often get carried away 139 00:07:04,134 --> 00:07:07,934 Speaker 3: with first reactions. I think that's in a waste time. 140 00:07:08,094 --> 00:07:11,654 Speaker 3: No one's going to remember Joe Biden's first reaction in 141 00:07:11,734 --> 00:07:13,454 Speaker 3: a month's time, they certainly want. 142 00:07:13,934 --> 00:07:15,054 Speaker 4: I think it's more where. 143 00:07:14,894 --> 00:07:18,094 Speaker 3: It goes from here that will determine how this plays, 144 00:07:18,494 --> 00:07:22,574 Speaker 3: both in Trump's case and in Biden's case. So, yeah, 145 00:07:22,614 --> 00:07:25,454 Speaker 3: it wasn't magnificent, but whether he's done enough or not 146 00:07:25,574 --> 00:07:28,374 Speaker 3: done enough. I don't think now is the time to 147 00:07:28,494 --> 00:07:32,254 Speaker 3: judge that. I think let's revisit that question in another 148 00:07:32,294 --> 00:07:32,854 Speaker 3: week or two. 149 00:07:32,974 --> 00:07:35,654 Speaker 1: Some members of the crowd told America's ABC News that 150 00:07:35,694 --> 00:07:38,854 Speaker 1: they are concerned about what might happen if Trump does 151 00:07:38,894 --> 00:07:39,734 Speaker 1: not win this election. 152 00:07:39,854 --> 00:07:41,734 Speaker 2: Now, if he's not president, there's going to be a 153 00:07:41,774 --> 00:07:45,854 Speaker 2: war around the world. He's not the president. He's doing 154 00:07:45,894 --> 00:07:48,534 Speaker 2: this for US. I mean hundreds of millions of dollars 155 00:07:48,534 --> 00:07:50,934 Speaker 2: in legal fees. He doesn't have to do this, but 156 00:07:51,014 --> 00:07:51,934 Speaker 2: he's fighting for US. 157 00:07:52,374 --> 00:07:55,774 Speaker 1: Chass says Trump may actually use this moment to leverage 158 00:07:55,814 --> 00:07:58,374 Speaker 1: even more support from what has been of late quite 159 00:07:58,414 --> 00:07:59,454 Speaker 1: a commanding position. 160 00:07:59,574 --> 00:08:02,694 Speaker 3: I'm not sure this event in itself is going to 161 00:08:02,734 --> 00:08:06,454 Speaker 3: improve Trump's electoral prospects. I mean, his electoral prospects are 162 00:08:06,494 --> 00:08:10,454 Speaker 3: already pretty solid to begin with, but I do think 163 00:08:10,614 --> 00:08:13,574 Speaker 3: it provides Trump with an opportunity to improve his electual 164 00:08:13,614 --> 00:08:17,934 Speaker 3: prospects quite a lot, especially given that his convention is 165 00:08:17,974 --> 00:08:22,814 Speaker 3: starting tomorrow. So that means that Trump has the opportunity 166 00:08:22,934 --> 00:08:26,334 Speaker 3: to ride this for the next four days in a 167 00:08:26,454 --> 00:08:27,174 Speaker 3: huge way. 168 00:08:27,014 --> 00:08:28,694 Speaker 4: When he's never going to get more attention. 169 00:08:29,134 --> 00:08:32,694 Speaker 3: And if they play it well, then I think that 170 00:08:32,694 --> 00:08:36,414 Speaker 3: that could help him quite a lot, So I'd say 171 00:08:36,614 --> 00:08:40,494 Speaker 3: rather than an attempted shooting necessarily improving his prospects, I'd 172 00:08:40,494 --> 00:08:42,494 Speaker 3: say the way it provides him with an opportunity to 173 00:08:42,534 --> 00:08:45,334 Speaker 3: improve his own prospects, and the prospects are already pretty 174 00:08:45,374 --> 00:08:46,654 Speaker 3: good even before this chance. 175 00:08:46,694 --> 00:08:49,054 Speaker 1: Also feels that Joe Biden's attempts to claw his way 176 00:08:49,054 --> 00:08:51,574 Speaker 1: back after that debate have not worked at all. So 177 00:08:51,654 --> 00:08:54,294 Speaker 1: Trump is in an even stronger position now than he 178 00:08:54,494 --> 00:08:55,654 Speaker 1: was before the attack. 179 00:08:55,854 --> 00:09:00,094 Speaker 3: Joe Biden has had every opportunity to make up for 180 00:09:00,214 --> 00:09:02,654 Speaker 3: what was obviously a shocking debate. 181 00:09:03,214 --> 00:09:05,174 Speaker 4: His debate performance was. 182 00:09:05,134 --> 00:09:08,974 Speaker 3: So poor there were people immediately calling him for him 183 00:09:08,974 --> 00:09:12,094 Speaker 3: to drop out, so there was really assuming he didn't 184 00:09:12,134 --> 00:09:16,134 Speaker 3: want to drop out or resign his presidency. There was 185 00:09:16,654 --> 00:09:20,174 Speaker 3: only one thing he could do, which was to prove 186 00:09:20,374 --> 00:09:23,614 Speaker 3: that the debate was a one off. And there are 187 00:09:23,854 --> 00:09:27,374 Speaker 3: three ways that you can do that. First of all, 188 00:09:27,454 --> 00:09:31,614 Speaker 3: if people are doubting your cognitive abilities, then you need 189 00:09:31,654 --> 00:09:34,814 Speaker 3: to take a test. You need to take a cognitive test. 190 00:09:35,094 --> 00:09:38,374 Speaker 3: There was more than enough reason for people to doubt 191 00:09:39,054 --> 00:09:43,174 Speaker 3: Joe Biden's health, his mental health, his state of mind. 192 00:09:43,774 --> 00:09:47,574 Speaker 3: It wasn't just pundit saying that it was doctors saying that. 193 00:09:48,174 --> 00:09:50,854 Speaker 3: So he really did need to take a test and 194 00:09:50,894 --> 00:09:52,534 Speaker 3: he needed to release it to the public. 195 00:09:52,734 --> 00:09:55,334 Speaker 4: He hasn't done that. The next thing he needed to 196 00:09:55,374 --> 00:09:58,294 Speaker 4: do was to do interviews. 197 00:09:58,814 --> 00:10:03,534 Speaker 3: The man has done fewer interviews than any other president 198 00:10:03,574 --> 00:10:07,094 Speaker 3: for over forty years, and that's non accident. He's been 199 00:10:07,294 --> 00:10:10,334 Speaker 3: hidden by his staff. Everyone knows that. So if he 200 00:10:10,414 --> 00:10:13,534 Speaker 3: needs to prove that he can roll with the punches, 201 00:10:14,134 --> 00:10:17,734 Speaker 3: he needs to do plenty of interviews. Anyone else At 202 00:10:17,734 --> 00:10:20,494 Speaker 3: this point in time, we've gone out and done twenty 203 00:10:20,614 --> 00:10:23,574 Speaker 3: interviews the week after the debate. It's not like there 204 00:10:23,614 --> 00:10:26,894 Speaker 3: weren't people asking for those interviews. And what he actually 205 00:10:27,094 --> 00:10:30,254 Speaker 3: and in the end, what he actually did was one 206 00:10:30,294 --> 00:10:32,654 Speaker 3: interview with George Stephanopolis and. 207 00:10:32,614 --> 00:10:37,214 Speaker 4: Two radio interviews where the questions were pre arranged. 208 00:10:37,814 --> 00:10:41,414 Speaker 3: He knew the questions in the radio interviews going into it, 209 00:10:41,734 --> 00:10:44,694 Speaker 3: and he may well have been reading his answers off 210 00:10:44,734 --> 00:10:47,334 Speaker 3: a piece of paper for we know, because they were radio. 211 00:10:47,974 --> 00:10:50,734 Speaker 3: And then he also called into Joe Scarborough and like, 212 00:10:50,814 --> 00:10:53,534 Speaker 3: and that was a very short, short call where once 213 00:10:53,534 --> 00:10:55,614 Speaker 3: again he was reading off a piece of paper. So 214 00:10:56,014 --> 00:10:58,414 Speaker 3: that didn't prove anything. And the third thing he needed 215 00:10:58,414 --> 00:11:01,254 Speaker 3: to do. Was he needed to hold press conferences. The 216 00:11:01,374 --> 00:11:05,974 Speaker 3: man had before last week had only held three proper 217 00:11:06,454 --> 00:11:11,134 Speaker 3: all in press conferences for his entire presidency. Obama did 218 00:11:11,374 --> 00:11:14,454 Speaker 3: like he was pushing one hundred press conferences during his presidency, 219 00:11:14,694 --> 00:11:18,934 Speaker 3: just so many more so it's been woefully inadequate. And 220 00:11:18,974 --> 00:11:23,054 Speaker 3: in the end, he did one press conference two weeks 221 00:11:23,094 --> 00:11:26,174 Speaker 3: after his debate. He needed to do so much more 222 00:11:26,174 --> 00:11:29,614 Speaker 3: than that. So I would say his response has been pathetic, 223 00:11:29,694 --> 00:11:33,734 Speaker 3: and I think while the debate was an indictment on 224 00:11:33,774 --> 00:11:36,494 Speaker 3: where Joe Biden is at, I think his response to 225 00:11:36,534 --> 00:11:39,414 Speaker 3: the debate has been so much worse. I think he 226 00:11:39,494 --> 00:11:41,614 Speaker 3: actually could have turned it round if he had a 227 00:11:41,654 --> 00:11:45,534 Speaker 3: decent response to the debate. But I think his performance 228 00:11:45,574 --> 00:11:48,534 Speaker 3: in the two weeks after the debate has been so 229 00:11:48,734 --> 00:11:55,214 Speaker 3: timid and so unwilling to prove the doubters wrong that 230 00:11:55,294 --> 00:11:58,054 Speaker 3: I think it's only confirmed the doubters and he's got 231 00:11:58,094 --> 00:11:58,574 Speaker 3: a problem. 232 00:11:58,574 --> 00:12:00,614 Speaker 1: I think that's the latest on this story, but we'll 233 00:12:00,654 --> 00:12:03,574 Speaker 1: keep you posted on any more information on this shocking 234 00:12:03,574 --> 00:12:06,174 Speaker 1: turn of events in the US election as they unfold, 235 00:12:06,454 --> 00:12:09,214 Speaker 1: both here on the Quickie and on the mummamea website. 236 00:12:09,614 --> 00:12:12,414 Speaker 1: Find links to the stories in our show notes. Next, 237 00:12:12,574 --> 00:12:15,414 Speaker 1: we're speaking to Catherine, who found out that her biological 238 00:12:15,414 --> 00:12:19,054 Speaker 1: father was a serial sperm donor, meaning she has intimate 239 00:12:19,094 --> 00:12:21,094 Speaker 1: knowledge of how the kids in the Man with one 240 00:12:21,134 --> 00:12:32,294 Speaker 1: Thousand Kids documentary will feel when they grow up. When 241 00:12:32,294 --> 00:12:35,814 Speaker 1: Ozzie couple Laura and Kate not their real names, searched 242 00:12:35,854 --> 00:12:38,934 Speaker 1: the Internet for a potential sperm donor. They thought they 243 00:12:38,974 --> 00:12:41,654 Speaker 1: were doing the safe thing, reaching out via a reputable 244 00:12:41,654 --> 00:12:45,494 Speaker 1: clinic that shipped sperm worldwide. They scrolled through the cryos 245 00:12:45,494 --> 00:12:48,374 Speaker 1: website Donaist and found a man known by the alias 246 00:12:48,534 --> 00:12:51,974 Speaker 1: Rude from the Netherlands whose baby picture really spoke to them. 247 00:12:52,294 --> 00:12:55,014 Speaker 1: He was a cute little blonde haired boys, something that 248 00:12:55,134 --> 00:12:57,934 Speaker 1: was of particular interest to the couple as they wanted 249 00:12:57,934 --> 00:13:00,094 Speaker 1: the boy to resemble one of the mums who wouldn't 250 00:13:00,134 --> 00:13:03,374 Speaker 1: be carrying the child too. They paid thousands and had 251 00:13:03,374 --> 00:13:05,734 Speaker 1: the man sperm shipped to Sydney, where they conceived a 252 00:13:05,774 --> 00:13:08,814 Speaker 1: little boy. They couldn't find out through crios who the 253 00:13:08,814 --> 00:13:11,814 Speaker 1: donor's identity was, but they joined an online group who 254 00:13:11,854 --> 00:13:14,414 Speaker 1: shared details of donors they had in common, trying to 255 00:13:14,414 --> 00:13:16,734 Speaker 1: see if their little boy had any half siblings out there. 256 00:13:16,974 --> 00:13:19,374 Speaker 1: When one of the people in that group reached out. 257 00:13:19,814 --> 00:13:24,654 Speaker 9: We got a private message, just said, hey, how you going. 258 00:13:25,454 --> 00:13:28,374 Speaker 9: Just want to let you know I recognize the donor 259 00:13:28,374 --> 00:13:31,214 Speaker 9: that you're looking for. I don't have very good news 260 00:13:31,294 --> 00:13:33,574 Speaker 9: unfortunately to tell you about your donor. 261 00:13:33,934 --> 00:13:36,014 Speaker 1: What they found out was shocking. 262 00:13:36,614 --> 00:13:40,134 Speaker 9: She said, your donor is quite famous in the Netherlands. 263 00:13:40,374 --> 00:13:43,894 Speaker 9: This guy is a serial donor. He has no intentions 264 00:13:43,934 --> 00:13:47,054 Speaker 9: of stopping. And there is a Facebook group that has 265 00:13:47,174 --> 00:13:50,894 Speaker 9: donor families that have used him, and they are uploading 266 00:13:50,894 --> 00:13:53,254 Speaker 9: photos of all these kids and what they look like. 267 00:13:53,534 --> 00:13:56,494 Speaker 9: It's like seeing the same version of your own child, 268 00:13:56,734 --> 00:14:00,174 Speaker 9: just slightly different. You could just lay out a plate 269 00:14:00,214 --> 00:14:03,654 Speaker 9: of dough and just bring a cookie cutter and just 270 00:14:03,694 --> 00:14:06,134 Speaker 9: do that one hundreds and hundreds of times. 271 00:14:06,934 --> 00:14:09,494 Speaker 1: They are part of the new Netflix documentary The Man 272 00:14:09,614 --> 00:14:13,054 Speaker 1: with One Thousand Kids. They had unknowingly chosen a man 273 00:14:13,094 --> 00:14:15,254 Speaker 1: who would turn out to be a serial sperm donor, 274 00:14:15,574 --> 00:14:19,454 Speaker 1: deceiving both individual families and at least eleven sperm banks 275 00:14:19,734 --> 00:14:22,254 Speaker 1: into believing that they were the only ones, or the 276 00:14:22,334 --> 00:14:27,534 Speaker 1: chosen select few receiving his donations. In reality, Jonathan Jacob 277 00:14:27,574 --> 00:14:30,934 Speaker 1: Meyer was traveling the world, donating from Kenya to Mexico, 278 00:14:31,014 --> 00:14:35,294 Speaker 1: across Europe, and yes, even to Australia. It's believed he'd 279 00:14:35,294 --> 00:14:38,254 Speaker 1: been spreading his seed globally to the point where there's 280 00:14:38,254 --> 00:14:41,894 Speaker 1: an estimation that he's possibly fathered somewhere in the vicinity 281 00:14:42,054 --> 00:14:45,814 Speaker 1: of three thousand children. The documentary explains that in just 282 00:14:45,934 --> 00:14:49,574 Speaker 1: one or two generations, one donor who has five hundred 283 00:14:49,654 --> 00:14:55,054 Speaker 1: children would have fifteen thousand descendants. The geographical closeness of 284 00:14:55,094 --> 00:14:57,254 Speaker 1: so many of them would mean those they come into 285 00:14:57,334 --> 00:15:00,814 Speaker 1: contact with as the generations continue would more and more 286 00:15:00,974 --> 00:15:03,854 Speaker 1: likely share their DNA. The chance of you ending up 287 00:15:03,894 --> 00:15:08,414 Speaker 1: in an incestual relationship grows and grows. In Jonathan Jacob 288 00:15:08,494 --> 00:15:11,094 Speaker 1: Meyer's case, three of his offspring ended up at the 289 00:15:11,134 --> 00:15:15,934 Speaker 1: same daycare center, and that's just one donor. Jonathan Jacob 290 00:15:15,934 --> 00:15:18,494 Speaker 1: Myers was believed to also be working with another man 291 00:15:18,574 --> 00:15:21,414 Speaker 1: named Leon, who was also focused on fathering as many 292 00:15:21,534 --> 00:15:24,454 Speaker 1: children as he could, some claiming they would even mix 293 00:15:24,494 --> 00:15:28,214 Speaker 1: their sperm together before handing it over to unsuspecting families 294 00:15:28,454 --> 00:15:32,374 Speaker 1: in some kind of genetic lottery. These men also reportedly 295 00:15:32,414 --> 00:15:34,734 Speaker 1: hooked up with a group of other like minded men. 296 00:15:34,894 --> 00:15:39,094 Speaker 1: Anthony Greenfield, Carl Gordy, Joe Donor Ari Nagel, all of 297 00:15:39,134 --> 00:15:41,694 Speaker 1: them very public in their quest to make as many 298 00:15:41,774 --> 00:15:45,334 Speaker 1: children as they can, some having donated hundreds of times 299 00:15:46,254 --> 00:15:48,774 Speaker 1: for the children of mayers. They're too young to really 300 00:15:48,894 --> 00:15:52,534 Speaker 1: understand the implications of what their biological father has created 301 00:15:52,534 --> 00:15:55,974 Speaker 1: for their future, but someone who understands this intimately is 302 00:15:56,094 --> 00:15:59,934 Speaker 1: Catherine Dawson. She believes she may have up to seven 303 00:16:00,054 --> 00:16:04,694 Speaker 1: hundred half siblings across Australia. After her donor used fake names, 304 00:16:04,774 --> 00:16:07,894 Speaker 1: including one of a friend who'd been murdered, to donate 305 00:16:07,934 --> 00:16:11,454 Speaker 1: at several clinics and hospitals in Melbourne. The clinics didn't 306 00:16:11,494 --> 00:16:15,294 Speaker 1: have to verify his identity or his health status, something 307 00:16:15,294 --> 00:16:17,814 Speaker 1: that Catherine would find out later would have a big 308 00:16:17,854 --> 00:16:21,934 Speaker 1: impact on her life and the lives of her many siblings. Catherine, 309 00:16:22,254 --> 00:16:24,814 Speaker 1: have you seen the Netflix documentary? What are your thoughts 310 00:16:24,894 --> 00:16:25,614 Speaker 1: after watching it? 311 00:16:26,494 --> 00:16:30,414 Speaker 10: Yeah? I absolutely have seen it. It was a very 312 00:16:30,454 --> 00:16:34,014 Speaker 10: intense watch. I've known about him and the other donors 313 00:16:34,014 --> 00:16:36,534 Speaker 10: that are mentioned in the documentary as well. One of 314 00:16:36,614 --> 00:16:39,134 Speaker 10: the messaged me last week to say, Hey, it looks 315 00:16:39,174 --> 00:16:42,814 Speaker 10: like you're raising awareness for the need of regulations and 316 00:16:42,854 --> 00:16:46,414 Speaker 10: it was Kyle Gordy hilarious. Why would he message me 317 00:16:46,774 --> 00:16:49,694 Speaker 10: to ask about Yeah, it just doesn't make any sense. 318 00:16:50,214 --> 00:16:52,094 Speaker 1: So do you think he might have been reaching out 319 00:16:52,094 --> 00:16:54,334 Speaker 1: to you to I don't know, I get you to 320 00:16:54,334 --> 00:16:57,454 Speaker 1: see his perspective on this. What would you even think 321 00:16:57,454 --> 00:16:58,414 Speaker 1: he might be asking. 322 00:16:58,734 --> 00:17:00,934 Speaker 10: Yeah, he wanted me to go on a podcast to 323 00:17:01,054 --> 00:17:04,254 Speaker 10: raise awareness for the need of regulations in the donor 324 00:17:04,334 --> 00:17:07,654 Speaker 10: conception space, which is just hilarious. 325 00:17:07,294 --> 00:17:08,974 Speaker 1: Even though he's one of these guys who kind of 326 00:17:09,014 --> 00:17:12,454 Speaker 1: self confess to wanting to make as many children as possible. 327 00:17:13,054 --> 00:17:15,054 Speaker 10: Yeah, they think they're above the law, and they think 328 00:17:15,094 --> 00:17:18,134 Speaker 10: that because it's private donation, that they won't even get regulated. 329 00:17:18,374 --> 00:17:21,294 Speaker 10: They see the clinics as something that needs to be regulated, 330 00:17:21,414 --> 00:17:24,614 Speaker 10: but that they are outside the clinics, which is completely 331 00:17:24,654 --> 00:17:28,094 Speaker 10: incorrect and exactly the opposite of what's happened in this case. 332 00:17:28,214 --> 00:17:32,454 Speaker 10: Because they needed to regulate him on his personal autonomy. 333 00:17:32,894 --> 00:17:35,094 Speaker 10: That's where we're headed because of their actions. 334 00:17:35,694 --> 00:17:39,534 Speaker 1: Catherine, can you tell me through when you found out 335 00:17:39,734 --> 00:17:43,854 Speaker 1: you were donor conceived and the details that you ended 336 00:17:43,894 --> 00:17:46,054 Speaker 1: up finding out about your donor. 337 00:17:46,694 --> 00:17:49,254 Speaker 10: I was in the position where I just felt that 338 00:17:50,014 --> 00:17:53,094 Speaker 10: my connection with my legal father who I thought was 339 00:17:53,094 --> 00:17:55,854 Speaker 10: my Bilish good father at the time, something didn't quite 340 00:17:55,974 --> 00:17:59,774 Speaker 10: feel correct or that I knew the whole story. I 341 00:17:59,854 --> 00:18:03,174 Speaker 10: knew that much, and so she sat me down and 342 00:18:03,214 --> 00:18:05,894 Speaker 10: I'd said, oh, just be easier if he wasn't my father, 343 00:18:06,294 --> 00:18:10,294 Speaker 10: and so I gave her the perfect opening. As a kid, 344 00:18:10,374 --> 00:18:12,534 Speaker 10: I you know, I told my best friend, so I 345 00:18:12,614 --> 00:18:15,174 Speaker 10: knew that I was made in a lab and potentially frozen, 346 00:18:15,214 --> 00:18:17,014 Speaker 10: and they are all those kind of fun jokes to 347 00:18:17,014 --> 00:18:19,734 Speaker 10: make about that. But the donor side of not knowing 348 00:18:19,814 --> 00:18:22,014 Speaker 10: who this, you know, the person who gives the seed, 349 00:18:22,094 --> 00:18:25,734 Speaker 10: sort of thing that kids can understand. I didn't really 350 00:18:25,774 --> 00:18:28,014 Speaker 10: worry about that and I didn't feel the need to 351 00:18:28,054 --> 00:18:30,534 Speaker 10: find him. People who say that their kids don't care 352 00:18:30,614 --> 00:18:32,774 Speaker 10: at that point, I totally get it, because I didn't 353 00:18:32,814 --> 00:18:35,014 Speaker 10: at that point. But when I was about twenty three 354 00:18:35,734 --> 00:18:38,134 Speaker 10: and I'd moved back to Melbourne for some study, I 355 00:18:38,214 --> 00:18:40,094 Speaker 10: was right there and I thought, I'm in the vicinity. 356 00:18:40,294 --> 00:18:42,054 Speaker 10: I want to find out more information. Now. 357 00:18:42,614 --> 00:18:45,614 Speaker 1: Was that in difficult process to find that information? 358 00:18:46,094 --> 00:18:48,254 Speaker 10: For me? It definitely was, And it was a big 359 00:18:48,454 --> 00:18:51,774 Speaker 10: reminder that my mother had died. So because I went 360 00:18:51,814 --> 00:18:53,574 Speaker 10: back to the clinic and I said, I'd like to 361 00:18:53,574 --> 00:18:56,054 Speaker 10: get her treating file, you know, any clues about her 362 00:18:56,094 --> 00:18:58,654 Speaker 10: life and things like that that I could have access to. 363 00:18:59,294 --> 00:19:02,934 Speaker 10: Was suddenly very important to me because I could understand 364 00:19:02,934 --> 00:19:05,534 Speaker 10: her as a woman. She died when I was eighteen, 365 00:19:05,574 --> 00:19:07,654 Speaker 10: but then I could have started to understand all of 366 00:19:07,694 --> 00:19:11,454 Speaker 10: the pain and difficulty and hardship that she went through 367 00:19:11,454 --> 00:19:13,454 Speaker 10: to have me in the first place, which I did 368 00:19:13,574 --> 00:19:16,934 Speaker 10: know and I felt through my whole life. But I 369 00:19:16,974 --> 00:19:19,894 Speaker 10: could then access her file to literally see the dates 370 00:19:19,894 --> 00:19:22,374 Speaker 10: of things she went through, to see the page that 371 00:19:22,414 --> 00:19:26,214 Speaker 10: she'd signed to say this sample, it can't be guaranteed, 372 00:19:26,334 --> 00:19:29,774 Speaker 10: this doesn't contain HIV AIDS. You need to let go 373 00:19:29,854 --> 00:19:32,854 Speaker 10: of the clinic for any legal responsibility if you can 374 00:19:32,894 --> 00:19:35,814 Speaker 10: track that, and she'd signed it. So there were things 375 00:19:35,894 --> 00:19:37,974 Speaker 10: like that that she just had to do in order 376 00:19:38,054 --> 00:19:42,174 Speaker 10: to have me and put herself at risk. And it's 377 00:19:42,254 --> 00:19:44,054 Speaker 10: quite hard to see. And it was a big reminder 378 00:19:44,094 --> 00:19:46,334 Speaker 10: because I had to provide her death certificate to show 379 00:19:46,334 --> 00:19:48,334 Speaker 10: that I was an informant, to show that I should 380 00:19:48,374 --> 00:19:51,534 Speaker 10: then be able to get that document. It was really awful, 381 00:19:52,134 --> 00:19:52,814 Speaker 10: really awful. 382 00:19:53,494 --> 00:19:55,294 Speaker 1: So what did you find out about your donor through 383 00:19:55,294 --> 00:19:55,934 Speaker 1: that process? 384 00:19:56,494 --> 00:19:58,894 Speaker 10: Nothing. They said that I'm not allowed to know who 385 00:19:58,934 --> 00:20:01,174 Speaker 10: he is. I'm not allowed to know anything about him. 386 00:20:01,374 --> 00:20:04,574 Speaker 10: Donuts were guaranteed anonymity. In the meantime, there were all 387 00:20:04,574 --> 00:20:08,094 Speaker 10: these donor conceive people and people at Varda who knew 388 00:20:08,094 --> 00:20:11,814 Speaker 10: these donor can see people's experience serience that there was 389 00:20:12,094 --> 00:20:15,014 Speaker 10: talks of the legislation changing, and then that changed in 390 00:20:15,054 --> 00:20:20,734 Speaker 10: twenty seventeen, and so the retrospective removal of anonymity came 391 00:20:20,774 --> 00:20:23,694 Speaker 10: through in twenty seventeen. So I was allowed to apply 392 00:20:24,494 --> 00:20:26,294 Speaker 10: and his name revealed to me. 393 00:20:27,054 --> 00:20:30,414 Speaker 1: And when you find out his name, that starts you 394 00:20:30,454 --> 00:20:32,854 Speaker 1: down a path of trying to find out more about him. 395 00:20:33,974 --> 00:20:37,334 Speaker 1: Obviously difficult when he's not contactable, even by the clinic 396 00:20:37,374 --> 00:20:40,174 Speaker 1: who got the sample from in the first place. But 397 00:20:40,654 --> 00:20:42,974 Speaker 1: what was the process like to find out more about 398 00:20:42,974 --> 00:20:43,374 Speaker 1: that man? 399 00:20:43,894 --> 00:20:46,294 Speaker 10: We were able to find his close family. I was 400 00:20:46,334 --> 00:20:48,654 Speaker 10: able to get in touch with them, and they sort 401 00:20:48,694 --> 00:20:50,694 Speaker 10: of kept me at arm's length quite a lot and 402 00:20:50,734 --> 00:20:53,214 Speaker 10: didn't want to tell me much about him. But then 403 00:20:53,574 --> 00:20:56,174 Speaker 10: he actually went back into Varda himself and had a 404 00:20:56,214 --> 00:21:00,654 Speaker 10: meeting with them. So then from how he presented and 405 00:21:01,174 --> 00:21:03,294 Speaker 10: I guess how he was in speaking with them. They 406 00:21:03,334 --> 00:21:04,934 Speaker 10: got in touch with me and said, we think that 407 00:21:05,054 --> 00:21:08,094 Speaker 10: he is going through some mental illness at the moment, 408 00:21:08,574 --> 00:21:10,254 Speaker 10: you know, and he actually had a history of that. 409 00:21:10,574 --> 00:21:12,414 Speaker 10: By the end of what we could find out, he'd 410 00:21:12,454 --> 00:21:14,614 Speaker 10: been unwell for a really long time. But he actually 411 00:21:14,614 --> 00:21:18,454 Speaker 10: presented himself to the treatment authority who do the donor linking. 412 00:21:18,814 --> 00:21:20,774 Speaker 10: That's how I was able to find out what he 413 00:21:20,854 --> 00:21:21,534 Speaker 10: was going through. 414 00:21:22,374 --> 00:21:25,974 Speaker 1: When did you start to find out that you weren't 415 00:21:26,014 --> 00:21:30,014 Speaker 1: the only child of that man? And in fact, there 416 00:21:30,014 --> 00:21:34,374 Speaker 1: were quite a few more than what anyone would have expected. 417 00:21:34,534 --> 00:21:37,534 Speaker 10: From the start. There was already an indication that all 418 00:21:37,574 --> 00:21:41,054 Speaker 10: the records aren't exactly as they seem. In my case, 419 00:21:41,174 --> 00:21:43,414 Speaker 10: because I was told, even under my donor code, that 420 00:21:43,454 --> 00:21:46,654 Speaker 10: there were seven boys and four girls my donor donated 421 00:21:46,734 --> 00:21:49,134 Speaker 10: under some false names that he actually said to me 422 00:21:49,174 --> 00:21:51,934 Speaker 10: when I met him. That increased the number of potential 423 00:21:51,934 --> 00:21:54,894 Speaker 10: siblings quite a lot. I don't know the other numbers 424 00:21:54,894 --> 00:21:57,654 Speaker 10: of siblings. There's no way that they'll release that information, 425 00:21:57,854 --> 00:22:01,294 Speaker 10: and even in the legislation, they want that information to 426 00:22:01,454 --> 00:22:04,054 Speaker 10: be correct and verified before they provide it to you. 427 00:22:04,334 --> 00:22:09,134 Speaker 10: They don't have to legally verify health information identification. They 428 00:22:09,174 --> 00:22:11,414 Speaker 10: never have to do a criminal history check, but for 429 00:22:11,494 --> 00:22:13,654 Speaker 10: you to have that information released to you, they have 430 00:22:13,774 --> 00:22:15,814 Speaker 10: to be sure of it, otherwise they can seal it. 431 00:22:16,534 --> 00:22:20,174 Speaker 1: So you start to see this circle widening and widening 432 00:22:20,214 --> 00:22:23,214 Speaker 1: with more and more siblings coming on board. When did 433 00:22:23,254 --> 00:22:26,734 Speaker 1: you realize just how big the scope of this was, 434 00:22:26,814 --> 00:22:30,134 Speaker 1: that potentially there could be hundreds of siblings out there? 435 00:22:30,734 --> 00:22:33,054 Speaker 10: When I met him and he said, he said, all 436 00:22:33,094 --> 00:22:35,854 Speaker 10: of the names, and there were seven, including his own. 437 00:22:36,334 --> 00:22:39,894 Speaker 10: So he said he went to six clinics and four hospitals. 438 00:22:40,494 --> 00:22:44,054 Speaker 10: So if he used all of those seven names, seven 439 00:22:44,174 --> 00:22:47,734 Speaker 10: names at one clinic would give you ten families under 440 00:22:47,734 --> 00:22:50,614 Speaker 10: each name, So that's seventy already. But if he did 441 00:22:50,654 --> 00:22:54,934 Speaker 10: that across ten clinics, that's then seventy times ten. It's 442 00:22:54,974 --> 00:22:58,174 Speaker 10: also assuming the seven hundred is also assuming that every 443 00:22:58,334 --> 00:23:02,614 Speaker 10: family ever had only ever had one child. That's seven 444 00:23:02,694 --> 00:23:06,254 Speaker 10: hundred siblings based on every family having one child only 445 00:23:06,814 --> 00:23:10,094 Speaker 10: when I've got siblings that are full siblings or twins, 446 00:23:10,254 --> 00:23:12,374 Speaker 10: or there's lots of twins on the list. There's this 447 00:23:12,454 --> 00:23:17,254 Speaker 10: family with three kids. So the one code JE alone 448 00:23:17,614 --> 00:23:20,694 Speaker 10: has twenty two families and thirty three kids on it, 449 00:23:21,254 --> 00:23:23,774 Speaker 10: and that's one clinic with one fate name. 450 00:23:24,894 --> 00:23:26,934 Speaker 1: One thing that they touched on in the documentary on 451 00:23:26,974 --> 00:23:31,654 Speaker 1: Netflix is the potential for these kids to meet each 452 00:23:31,654 --> 00:23:35,774 Speaker 1: other and fall in love. Because there is a genetic 453 00:23:35,814 --> 00:23:39,574 Speaker 1: attraction to people within families, and when you understand you're 454 00:23:39,614 --> 00:23:42,174 Speaker 1: in a family, that boundary is put up because you 455 00:23:42,254 --> 00:23:46,054 Speaker 1: understand that attraction is because you're a sibling. But out 456 00:23:46,054 --> 00:23:48,134 Speaker 1: in the wild world, if you don't understand that there's 457 00:23:48,134 --> 00:23:50,814 Speaker 1: a potential that you could have a relationship and insest 458 00:23:50,854 --> 00:23:54,094 Speaker 1: your relationship with your half sibling. Does that concern you 459 00:23:54,134 --> 00:23:56,054 Speaker 1: when you're out in the world trying to meet people. 460 00:23:56,774 --> 00:24:01,494 Speaker 10: Yeah, absolutely, it's the number one fear. It's so triggering 461 00:24:01,534 --> 00:24:05,374 Speaker 10: whenever I see anything on like Game of Thrones was triggering, 462 00:24:05,974 --> 00:24:09,774 Speaker 10: and so for me personally, because I knew I would 463 00:24:09,814 --> 00:24:12,614 Speaker 10: date people who were born in another country. I didn't 464 00:24:12,654 --> 00:24:15,534 Speaker 10: really realize what I was doing, but I would date 465 00:24:15,534 --> 00:24:19,774 Speaker 10: people who were definitely not born in Melbourne or Australia. 466 00:24:19,814 --> 00:24:23,294 Speaker 10: And even that's not particularly safe anyway, given that I've 467 00:24:23,334 --> 00:24:26,734 Speaker 10: known that we don't all share the same race. I 468 00:24:26,774 --> 00:24:32,814 Speaker 10: can't imagine the confusion of meeting someone seeing these similarities, 469 00:24:32,854 --> 00:24:36,054 Speaker 10: having these things in common, and it's actually a genetic 470 00:24:36,134 --> 00:24:40,814 Speaker 10: sexual attraction because your siblings and something like eighty percent 471 00:24:40,854 --> 00:24:43,534 Speaker 10: of donor conceive people still don't know people that are 472 00:24:43,654 --> 00:24:46,494 Speaker 10: at our age, you're in my age, people that are 473 00:24:46,534 --> 00:24:49,174 Speaker 10: going to these clinics now, there are so many of 474 00:24:49,214 --> 00:24:51,574 Speaker 10: them that are actually donor conceived and their parents have 475 00:24:51,654 --> 00:24:55,294 Speaker 10: never told them. I've met, say, fourteen siblings off of 476 00:24:55,334 --> 00:24:57,574 Speaker 10: the list of known siblings I know now, and there's 477 00:24:57,614 --> 00:25:00,974 Speaker 10: confirmed fifty six. So that says how many of my 478 00:25:01,094 --> 00:25:03,974 Speaker 10: siblings who are between the ages of twenty and forty 479 00:25:04,094 --> 00:25:08,734 Speaker 10: who currently do not know and possibly stayed in Melbourne, 480 00:25:08,774 --> 00:25:12,294 Speaker 10: settled down and kids. And it terrifies me because it's 481 00:25:13,214 --> 00:25:17,654 Speaker 10: not just the Netflix doco. This has been happening for decades. 482 00:25:17,974 --> 00:25:21,054 Speaker 1: This risk something I didn't consider too, and that the 483 00:25:21,094 --> 00:25:24,134 Speaker 1: doco does point out, is that yes, there is you know, 484 00:25:24,534 --> 00:25:28,094 Speaker 1: in this case, potentially thousands of children who may accidentally 485 00:25:28,134 --> 00:25:31,694 Speaker 1: meet and have romantic relationships. But then if they do 486 00:25:31,774 --> 00:25:34,254 Speaker 1: go on and have children together, those children also might 487 00:25:34,334 --> 00:25:37,294 Speaker 1: end up meeting the children of those children who are 488 00:25:37,334 --> 00:25:41,134 Speaker 1: also because they were in sort of geographically similar areas, 489 00:25:41,174 --> 00:25:44,214 Speaker 1: they might you know, this could go on for generations afterwards. 490 00:25:44,254 --> 00:25:48,774 Speaker 10: Right, Yeah, absolutely, and it will. And him insinuating that 491 00:25:48,854 --> 00:25:52,854 Speaker 10: those people just now wear a marker somehow is just disgusting. 492 00:25:53,134 --> 00:25:55,894 Speaker 10: Like this is the whole thing too. I don't have 493 00:25:56,014 --> 00:25:59,414 Speaker 10: privacy when I choose to put my DNA onto the 494 00:25:59,494 --> 00:26:02,454 Speaker 10: ancestry websites. And that's a thing I have to do. 495 00:26:02,654 --> 00:26:06,294 Speaker 10: You have to give away your privacy in exchange for information, 496 00:26:07,014 --> 00:26:09,374 Speaker 10: and they're going to have to do that now for 497 00:26:09,574 --> 00:26:14,894 Speaker 10: generations is to identify, tell everyone I am a descendant 498 00:26:14,974 --> 00:26:19,014 Speaker 10: of this guy, and double check so that they don't 499 00:26:19,134 --> 00:26:21,494 Speaker 10: date a family member. 500 00:26:23,374 --> 00:26:25,574 Speaker 1: How do you feel about these guys who are very 501 00:26:25,614 --> 00:26:27,934 Speaker 1: publicly saying that they want to have as many kids 502 00:26:27,934 --> 00:26:30,014 Speaker 1: as possible because they want to populate the earth with 503 00:26:30,054 --> 00:26:33,174 Speaker 1: their genetics, like the Elon Masks and the Nick Cannons 504 00:26:33,214 --> 00:26:35,574 Speaker 1: and all these guys that are involved in the doco. 505 00:26:36,054 --> 00:26:37,334 Speaker 1: What do you think about these men? 506 00:26:38,294 --> 00:26:42,254 Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean the audacity is huge and the egos 507 00:26:42,294 --> 00:26:46,574 Speaker 10: are massive. It's just I know that my donor donated 508 00:26:46,654 --> 00:26:50,774 Speaker 10: for money that I can kind of mentally reconcile because 509 00:26:51,974 --> 00:26:55,534 Speaker 10: everyone's trying to get by, especially if he's mentally unwell, 510 00:26:55,574 --> 00:26:58,374 Speaker 10: He's just trying to get by. And he's also got 511 00:26:58,374 --> 00:27:01,174 Speaker 10: a distorted sense of what is okay because of his 512 00:27:01,254 --> 00:27:04,854 Speaker 10: mental illness. But when it's for your own sense of 513 00:27:04,894 --> 00:27:09,454 Speaker 10: ego and two, it's just disgusting feeling like you're part 514 00:27:09,454 --> 00:27:13,094 Speaker 10: of some kind of strange lineage of someone trying to 515 00:27:13,694 --> 00:27:18,094 Speaker 10: spread their seeds. It's something that you would struggle to 516 00:27:18,134 --> 00:27:22,014 Speaker 10: find counseling for, really, because no one you can find 517 00:27:22,094 --> 00:27:26,894 Speaker 10: genetic counselor to go through that. But I don't know 518 00:27:26,934 --> 00:27:29,654 Speaker 10: how you reconcile that as a human being, knowing that 519 00:27:29,694 --> 00:27:32,614 Speaker 10: you are, like it says on the documentary a number. 520 00:27:32,894 --> 00:27:37,334 Speaker 10: You're a number, You're one of thousands, and you were 521 00:27:37,374 --> 00:27:40,374 Speaker 10: made for this reason. It's just something that's really hard 522 00:27:40,374 --> 00:27:43,174 Speaker 10: to fathom. And the donor conceived person is the person 523 00:27:43,214 --> 00:27:46,774 Speaker 10: that has this burden for their whole life. And then 524 00:27:46,814 --> 00:27:49,374 Speaker 10: they need to go and think should I even have children? 525 00:27:49,614 --> 00:27:52,174 Speaker 10: It's not do you want them, oh having a baby, 526 00:27:52,214 --> 00:27:55,014 Speaker 10: how lovely? Any of those feelings, it's should I? Because 527 00:27:55,054 --> 00:27:58,454 Speaker 10: ethically they have to now deal with those consequences. 528 00:27:59,534 --> 00:28:02,734 Speaker 1: Catherine wants to be very clear the sperm donor clinics 529 00:28:02,934 --> 00:28:05,854 Speaker 1: need to be held accountable for their role in allowing 530 00:28:05,894 --> 00:28:08,974 Speaker 1: this to become her and her siblings' reality, and points 531 00:28:09,014 --> 00:28:11,574 Speaker 1: out that her donor probably isn't the only one to 532 00:28:11,734 --> 00:28:14,574 Speaker 1: have deceived his way through their screening process. And if 533 00:28:14,574 --> 00:28:16,854 Speaker 1: he isn't the only one in Melbourne, he probably isn't 534 00:28:16,854 --> 00:28:19,014 Speaker 1: the only one in Victoria, or the only one on 535 00:28:19,054 --> 00:28:21,814 Speaker 1: the Eastern seaboard, or the only one across the country. 536 00:28:22,134 --> 00:28:24,694 Speaker 1: So how many of us are all actually related to 537 00:28:24,734 --> 00:28:28,014 Speaker 1: each other? If you have recently found out you are 538 00:28:28,094 --> 00:28:30,694 Speaker 1: donor conceived, or if you have that sense like Catherine 539 00:28:30,694 --> 00:28:33,494 Speaker 1: says she did, that something isn't quite adding up for 540 00:28:33,534 --> 00:28:37,294 Speaker 1: you and you need some support, she says, please reach out. 541 00:28:37,494 --> 00:28:39,454 Speaker 1: There are plenty of people in the same boat as you. 542 00:28:40,294 --> 00:28:43,174 Speaker 10: There are Facebook groups for support as well if you 543 00:28:43,214 --> 00:28:45,494 Speaker 10: find that you're a donor conceived. If you find that 544 00:28:45,574 --> 00:28:48,814 Speaker 10: out at a later stage, the Donor Conceived Network of 545 00:28:48,854 --> 00:28:52,974 Speaker 10: Australia or RUDC is a good place to search. 546 00:28:52,734 --> 00:28:55,774 Speaker 1: For Thanks for spending some time feeding your mind with 547 00:28:55,854 --> 00:28:58,614 Speaker 1: us today, friends. The quickie is produced by me Claire 548 00:28:58,694 --> 00:29:01,934 Speaker 1: Murphy and our senior producer Taylor Strano, with audio production 549 00:29:02,134 --> 00:29:04,414 Speaker 1: by Jacob Brown.