WEBVTT - INBOX: Stop Shaking, Start Speaking - The Public Speaking Fix You Can Use Today!

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Amma mea podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, and welcome to biz Inbox. I'm m Vernon and

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<v Speaker 2>you just stepped into your judgment free zone for all

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<v Speaker 2>things career related.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm Sarah Davidson, a lawyer turned entrepreneur, ready to

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<v Speaker 1>get real about workplace challenges and dive into some workplace

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<v Speaker 1>real talk.

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<v Speaker 3>I am so excited.

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<v Speaker 2>Think of these biz Inbox episodes as your career confessional booth.

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<v Speaker 2>You can be completely anonymous if you're struggling with office politics,

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<v Speaker 2>building a business, dealing with a boss from hell, whatever

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<v Speaker 2>it is.

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<v Speaker 3>We are all is.

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<v Speaker 1>Today we're chatting about those colleagues who treat meetings like

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<v Speaker 1>their very own ted talk me sorry to everyone, and

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<v Speaker 1>proving your worth to your boss from your home office.

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<v Speaker 1>But let's start off with a question we got in

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<v Speaker 1>that's something that I think everyone on earth can relate to. Really,

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<v Speaker 1>why public speaking is absolutely terrifying?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, this question tackles the number one workplace fear.

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<v Speaker 2>And no, it's not accidentally replying all, which I have

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<v Speaker 2>done more times than i'd like to admit.

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<v Speaker 3>This comes in from.

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<v Speaker 2>Casey and she wrote, I'm presenting to senior leadership tomorrow

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm incredibly nervous. My voice tends to shake and

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<v Speaker 2>I lose my train of thought when anxious. I've tried

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<v Speaker 2>using voice notes to keep me on track, but then

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<v Speaker 2>my shaking hands become even more obvious as I'm fumbling

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<v Speaker 2>with paper. It's like my body is determined to expose

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<v Speaker 2>my nerves one way or another. What techniques do you

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<v Speaker 2>recommend for staying composed during high pressure conversations? Any tips

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<v Speaker 2>would be so appreciated, Sarah, you do a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>public speaking and a lot of presenting, like I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like you are perfect to answer this question.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, well it's such a valid one, Casey,

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like a lot of people. I can't remember

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<v Speaker 1>what the statistic is, but a lot of people are

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<v Speaker 1>more scared of public speaking than they are of like death.

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<v Speaker 1>Like it's people's number one fear worldwide. Such anxiety inducing

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<v Speaker 1>activity for so many, And I guess one of the

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<v Speaker 1>first things is be gentle on yourself. Nerves are so normal.

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<v Speaker 1>Even after I would say probably more than a thousand

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<v Speaker 1>speaking gigs, I still get nervous. So the goal is

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<v Speaker 1>not for the nerves to disappear completely. So that's one

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<v Speaker 1>thing we all get nerves. It's a really good sign

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<v Speaker 1>that you care about the outcome, that you care about

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<v Speaker 1>doing a good job. It's just about, like you said,

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<v Speaker 1>learning how to not let them totally overtake you. And

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<v Speaker 1>there's a couple of things that really help with that.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the first is practice. It definitely gets easier

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<v Speaker 1>over time. So when I look at my first speaking

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<v Speaker 1>gigs when I was, like, you know, really young, in

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<v Speaker 1>my early twenties versus now, the comfort level is dramatically different,

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<v Speaker 1>and that just comes with practice.

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<v Speaker 3>But there are so.

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<v Speaker 1>Many little things that you can do in the lead

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<v Speaker 1>up that can sort of reduce the capacity of those

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<v Speaker 1>nerves to overcome you. So deep breathing is a really

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<v Speaker 1>big thing just beforehand, because your heart rate getting away

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<v Speaker 1>from itself is part of the thing that makes you shake.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the thing that makes your brain so flighty that

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<v Speaker 1>you lose train of thought. So big deep breast beforehand.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of psychology around the poses that you

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<v Speaker 1>stand in beforehand while you're doing that breathing to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of instill a bit more confidence in you, sort of

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<v Speaker 1>instead of shrinking away and having your shoulders round it,

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<v Speaker 1>it's put your shoulders back so that you can get

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<v Speaker 1>as much air into your body as you can. Practicing

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<v Speaker 1>parts of your speech in advance so that if you

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<v Speaker 1>do lose your train of thought, you've got muscle memory.

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<v Speaker 1>Even just the intro. I feel like if you deliver

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<v Speaker 1>that confidently, that helps carry you through the next bit.

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<v Speaker 1>So I know it sounds silly, but doing your speech

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<v Speaker 1>to your mirror the night before or in the weeks

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<v Speaker 1>before that always actually really helps me feel more confident.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, saying it out loud, out.

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<v Speaker 1>Loud, and then the third thing that sounds a bit

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<v Speaker 1>counterinto you is just to call it out. So I

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<v Speaker 1>find when I am really really nervous if I start

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<v Speaker 1>by saying, guys, I'm really nervous here. This is not

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<v Speaker 1>my forte, but I really want to do a good job,

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<v Speaker 1>so please excuse the shakes. For some reason, getting it

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<v Speaker 1>out in the open, you stop feeling that you're chasing

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<v Speaker 1>your tail, like you're trying to look more confident than

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<v Speaker 1>you are. If you just kind of acknowledge it and

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<v Speaker 1>say this isn't my forte, but I'm doing my best. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>everyone in the audience will understand. No one is ever

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<v Speaker 1>not nervous, so everyone will understand that it gets it

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<v Speaker 1>out of the way. Then you kind of feel like

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<v Speaker 1>the fumbling. No one's staring at you, going, oh, she's

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<v Speaker 1>fumbling because they already know that you are. You've called

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<v Speaker 1>it out, you've had a laugh, and then you move on.

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<v Speaker 1>I find that really powerful.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh these are such good tips, and Casey, I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like my nervous ticks are very similar to yours. I

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<v Speaker 2>recently went on a live tour with our podcast Mummy

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<v Speaker 2>Out Loud, and we were talking in front of thousands

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<v Speaker 2>of people, and most people I've spoken in front of

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<v Speaker 2>was twenty, so I went from twenty two thousands and it.

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<v Speaker 3>Was so scary.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of my nervous sticks was similar to Casey,

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<v Speaker 2>where like my hands shake, especially when I'm holding notes.

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<v Speaker 2>So what I did, because all the other hosts would

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<v Speaker 2>have these palm cards and they would read of these

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<v Speaker 2>palm cards as guides every time in rehearsal I do that,

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<v Speaker 2>I would just uncontrollably shake. So I actually just memorized

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<v Speaker 2>my entire bit because I knew that was my nervous tick,

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<v Speaker 2>and I went out without holding anything and it worked

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<v Speaker 2>so well. So it is a lot more work you

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<v Speaker 2>have to do, but I felt like for me, knowing

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<v Speaker 2>that was my nervous tick, not having the palm cards

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<v Speaker 2>was a big blocker for me. So not having them

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<v Speaker 2>was just the best decision ever, and it just made

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<v Speaker 2>me look so much more relaxed than when I was

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<v Speaker 2>actually dying on the inside. Another little tip I have

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<v Speaker 2>was from these girls. They have a podcast called Interview Boss.

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<v Speaker 2>They're absolutely brilliant, and they say like, if you get

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<v Speaker 2>nervous in interviews and things like that, clench your butt

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<v Speaker 2>cheeks and you stop shaking. So if you go to

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<v Speaker 2>pick up a glass of water and you feel yourself

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<v Speaker 2>shaking picking up like glass of water, clench your butt cheeks.

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<v Speaker 2>It works every time.

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<v Speaker 3>That is such a good one.

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<v Speaker 1>I actually saw this on your notes and I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know where this is going.

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<v Speaker 3>But I love it, just me talking to myself in general.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you know what is one other one I just

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<v Speaker 1>thought of as well, which always helps me is that

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<v Speaker 1>there will always be no matter how big or small

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<v Speaker 1>your audience is. Some people have resting bitch face even

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<v Speaker 1>if they're really engaged, and some people have resting encouragement face,

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<v Speaker 1>And you'll know almost instantly the people who are going

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<v Speaker 1>to be warm and receptive to what you're saying openly,

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<v Speaker 1>like express it on their face. Go back to them.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't look at the people who look like they've tuned

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<v Speaker 1>out or that they're bored, because you'll start to spiral

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<v Speaker 1>and you'll think, oh my god, no one's listening. There's

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<v Speaker 1>always one person who smiles and nods at you, like

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<v Speaker 1>physically nods. Just find them and talk to just them,

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<v Speaker 1>and you'll block out everyone else, and that kind of

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<v Speaker 1>reinforces to you that people are listening, people are enjoying this,

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<v Speaker 1>and that helps quell those nerves. So I always have

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<v Speaker 1>like my yeah, secret friend in the audience who probably

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<v Speaker 1>don't know that they're holding me up or carrying me

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<v Speaker 1>as much as they are, But there's always one find them.

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<v Speaker 3>That's such a good point. Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Our next question is an anonymous one, which are always

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<v Speaker 2>the juiciest ones, and this person says, hey, biz team,

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<v Speaker 2>my performance review is in a few weeks and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>a bit worried. I work from home most days and

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<v Speaker 2>feel like my work is kind of invisible compared to

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<v Speaker 2>the office crowd. I've been doing fine, nothing terrible, but

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<v Speaker 2>nothing amazing. Either any quick wins or easy ways I

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<v Speaker 2>can show my value and stand out before my review,

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<v Speaker 2>especially when my boss can't actually see me working. This

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<v Speaker 2>is such an interesting question because when I was thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about it, I was like, surely that's not the case.

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<v Speaker 2>But then I talk to some friends, and I have

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<v Speaker 2>friends who are genuinely like my boss still expects everyone

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<v Speaker 2>to be in the office. Like my boss, no matter

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<v Speaker 2>how hard you work, my boss needs to see people

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<v Speaker 2>in the office. Sarah, what's been your experience with what

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<v Speaker 2>you've seen with work from home versus working in person

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<v Speaker 2>and seeing people work.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's such a fascinating question because I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>most people will either have all this colleagues working from

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<v Speaker 1>home so they don't have to prove their worth because

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<v Speaker 1>they're all doing the same thing, or they all work

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<v Speaker 1>in the office. So this is a really unique scenario

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<v Speaker 1>where you are competing with peers who have more FaceTime

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<v Speaker 1>than you, and they do have more opportunities to show

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<v Speaker 1>their worth. So it's a bit of a tough one

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<v Speaker 1>I think. In the end, I am so so pleased

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<v Speaker 1>that we have come a long way in proving that

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<v Speaker 1>you don't have to physically be there to have value

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<v Speaker 1>and to do valuable work. The problem is it is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be a little bit harder for you to

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<v Speaker 1>show that, And I think that does mean you have

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<v Speaker 1>to do a tiny bit more work to be out

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<v Speaker 1>of back yourself up. And so my advice in this

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<v Speaker 1>situation would be, so often we don't record what we

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<v Speaker 1>do during the day. As a lawyer, you don't have

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<v Speaker 1>that choice. We always had to record in six minute

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<v Speaker 1>increments every single task that you do during the day

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<v Speaker 1>to a client.

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<v Speaker 3>That feels like a whole job in itself.

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<v Speaker 1>It is an entire job. So at the end of

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<v Speaker 1>the day you spend so many six minute units just

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<v Speaker 1>on working out what you did. But it's a really

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<v Speaker 1>good habit that I got into because now I have

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<v Speaker 1>a list at the end of every day of what

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<v Speaker 1>I worked on and how long I worked on it.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think tracking what you do so that when

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<v Speaker 1>you do have a performance review, you can show them

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<v Speaker 1>and say, these are the tangible things that I worked

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<v Speaker 1>on that you didn't see. Otherwise it just all blurs

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<v Speaker 1>into one big I was at home and sure we

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<v Speaker 1>finished the project, but your individual contribution to that project

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<v Speaker 1>or valuable things that you added to the conversations get

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<v Speaker 1>lost in the slack conversation or the email chain, so

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<v Speaker 1>write dot points through the day and then you've got

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<v Speaker 1>something actually tangible written down to present because you'll forget

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<v Speaker 1>it as well, like you won't remember what part of

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<v Speaker 1>that project was your contribution. So I think it really

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<v Speaker 1>is record keeping and then packaging it up in a

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<v Speaker 1>way that does show what your value is. Which is

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<v Speaker 1>unfair that you have to do more work than your colleagues,

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<v Speaker 1>but that's I think part of the challenge that we

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<v Speaker 1>still face. So don't disadvantage yourself by just not keeping

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<v Speaker 1>a rud.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so true, and you also might find out that

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<v Speaker 2>you have been doing way more than what you thought,

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<v Speaker 2>Like I know sometimes when I work from home, because

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<v Speaker 2>no one can actually see me working, so you end

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<v Speaker 2>up just like even taking your phone to the bathroom,

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<v Speaker 2>like I've done that so many times because people can't

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<v Speaker 2>actually see you get up and go to the bathroom,

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<v Speaker 2>or see you get up and go to lunch, like

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<v Speaker 2>even those like little bits of like hey, just letting

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<v Speaker 2>everyone know I'm going for lunch. Now, hey letting everyone

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<v Speaker 2>know I'm back, Like you do do those extra things

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<v Speaker 2>that like people in the office don't have to do.

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<v Speaker 2>So keep that in mind, because you actually might be

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<v Speaker 2>doing more than you realize.

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<v Speaker 1>One hundred percent. And if you've written it down, you

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<v Speaker 1>can also track sort of the hours that you've invested

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<v Speaker 1>as well. So if you want to be able to

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<v Speaker 1>say I spent twenty hours on this task, you can

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<v Speaker 1>back that up. Whereas if you're remembering it like two

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<v Speaker 1>weeks later and you haven't written anything down, it's really

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<v Speaker 1>hard to say, here is the time I spent on this.

0:10:55.290 --> 0:10:58.050
<v Speaker 2>Oh good luck with this performance review. We are sure

0:10:58.050 --> 0:11:01.210
<v Speaker 2>that you are going to absolutely smash it. Coming up next,

0:11:01.370 --> 0:11:04.570
<v Speaker 2>we have a juicy dilemma about how to deal with

0:11:04.690 --> 0:11:13.730
<v Speaker 2>overpowering co leagues. We have a question about a meeting

0:11:13.770 --> 0:11:17.610
<v Speaker 2>phenomenon that we've all definitely experienced. It's those voices in

0:11:17.650 --> 0:11:20.490
<v Speaker 2>those meetings that end up taking up all the oxygen

0:11:20.650 --> 0:11:24.330
<v Speaker 2>in the room. So Beck DMed us asking I need

0:11:24.330 --> 0:11:27.490
<v Speaker 2>some meeting advice. In our twice weekly team catch ups,

0:11:27.570 --> 0:11:31.410
<v Speaker 2>the same two colleagues dominate every discussion without fail. The

0:11:31.450 --> 0:11:33.530
<v Speaker 2>rest of us barely get a word in, and I've

0:11:33.570 --> 0:11:36.690
<v Speaker 2>noticed some really valuable team members haven't spoken up in weeks.

0:11:37.130 --> 0:11:40.090
<v Speaker 2>I'm not the meeting leader, just a regular participant, but

0:11:40.170 --> 0:11:42.610
<v Speaker 2>I'd love some suggestions for how to create space for

0:11:42.690 --> 0:11:46.010
<v Speaker 2>my quieter colleagues without making things awkward or seeming like

0:11:46.050 --> 0:11:48.890
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to take over any subtle hints that can

0:11:48.970 --> 0:11:52.970
<v Speaker 2>actually work in real life. Ooh, this one's quite hard.

0:11:53.290 --> 0:11:56.330
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, personally, I haven't experienced this, And then

0:11:56.730 --> 0:11:58.490
<v Speaker 2>when I think about that, I'm like, oh my god,

0:11:58.650 --> 0:12:00.689
<v Speaker 2>was I the overbearing colleague that just took up.

0:12:00.650 --> 0:12:01.130
<v Speaker 3>All the meetings?

0:12:02.410 --> 0:12:04.890
<v Speaker 1>I was just about to say, I also haven't, and

0:12:04.930 --> 0:12:08.490
<v Speaker 1>that's because you and I are the two people this.

0:12:08.530 --> 0:12:12.690
<v Speaker 3>Question was about. Ask who is it? We're sorry, so

0:12:12.850 --> 0:12:14.770
<v Speaker 3>it's a producer? So who wrote in?

0:12:15.890 --> 0:12:18.330
<v Speaker 1>I think that's what's really hard, though, is that sometimes

0:12:18.370 --> 0:12:22.130
<v Speaker 1>there are definitely dominant personalities in a workplace, but sometimes

0:12:22.130 --> 0:12:24.850
<v Speaker 1>it's just people who are chatty. Like You're not dominating

0:12:24.850 --> 0:12:28.210
<v Speaker 1>because you want to overpower your fellow colleagues who are quieter.

0:12:28.490 --> 0:12:30.850
<v Speaker 1>You just love a good chat and if you feel

0:12:30.850 --> 0:12:33.890
<v Speaker 1>like you've got something to contribute that's valuable. I will

0:12:33.970 --> 0:12:36.930
<v Speaker 1>genuinely keep talking until someone stops me, and I don't

0:12:37.330 --> 0:12:40.610
<v Speaker 1>mean to, you know, talk over people. And sometimes I've

0:12:40.650 --> 0:12:42.610
<v Speaker 1>realized this kind of made me take a cold houd

0:12:42.650 --> 0:12:45.370
<v Speaker 1>look at myself, like I might be cutting off other

0:12:45.450 --> 0:12:48.850
<v Speaker 1>valuable opinions simply because I find it easier to talk

0:12:48.890 --> 0:12:53.130
<v Speaker 1>in a group setting. So in this scenario, I sort

0:12:53.130 --> 0:12:55.089
<v Speaker 1>of thought, give them the benefit of the doubt that

0:12:55.130 --> 0:12:58.290
<v Speaker 1>they don't realize that they're doing it, and maybe create

0:12:58.330 --> 0:13:01.650
<v Speaker 1>an opportunity for them to realize that they are and

0:13:01.930 --> 0:13:06.290
<v Speaker 1>do something differently. And that might involve maybe your meeting

0:13:06.370 --> 0:13:09.250
<v Speaker 1>leader on board, if you're not the meeting leader, take

0:13:09.290 --> 0:13:12.650
<v Speaker 1>them aside and just mention that you've noticed this is happening,

0:13:12.730 --> 0:13:15.450
<v Speaker 1>and perhaps pitch it as I don't think they're doing

0:13:15.450 --> 0:13:19.210
<v Speaker 1>it on purpose, but perhaps we could sort of direct

0:13:19.290 --> 0:13:22.770
<v Speaker 1>questions to the quieter colleague, and instead of opening up

0:13:22.810 --> 0:13:25.850
<v Speaker 1>the floor, you could say, hey, so what do you

0:13:25.890 --> 0:13:28.770
<v Speaker 1>think about this? You could start the meeting by giving

0:13:28.770 --> 0:13:31.929
<v Speaker 1>that particular person a chance to speak, and do it

0:13:31.930 --> 0:13:34.650
<v Speaker 1>that way, like take a bit more control from the

0:13:34.690 --> 0:13:38.130
<v Speaker 1>top down. And that depends on your meeting leader, of course,

0:13:38.170 --> 0:13:40.050
<v Speaker 1>and how open they are to that. But I think

0:13:40.090 --> 0:13:42.250
<v Speaker 1>that's a really subtle way of doing it without anyone

0:13:42.290 --> 0:13:44.850
<v Speaker 1>feeling like you've had to have it out and you've

0:13:44.850 --> 0:13:47.290
<v Speaker 1>had to say, guys, shut up, like let the others speak.

0:13:47.330 --> 0:13:49.210
<v Speaker 1>I think that's a really gentle way of doing it.

0:13:49.450 --> 0:13:51.610
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I love that, and it also seems like me

0:13:51.810 --> 0:13:54.130
<v Speaker 2>So it's a consistent meeting they have. It's like a

0:13:54.170 --> 0:13:57.730
<v Speaker 2>twice weekly team catch up. So there's a reason you

0:13:57.810 --> 0:14:00.730
<v Speaker 2>have that meeting. And obviously it's not getting executed to

0:14:00.770 --> 0:14:02.730
<v Speaker 2>the best of its ability because so many people can't

0:14:02.730 --> 0:14:05.770
<v Speaker 2>actually tell the room what they're doing. So maybe even

0:14:05.850 --> 0:14:08.490
<v Speaker 2>just suggest to your team leader or to the whole

0:14:08.530 --> 0:14:10.610
<v Speaker 2>team in one of those meetings, say I think it'd

0:14:10.610 --> 0:14:12.130
<v Speaker 2>be more efficient if we just have some sort of

0:14:12.130 --> 0:14:14.610
<v Speaker 2>structure in place for this meeting and be like, let's

0:14:14.650 --> 0:14:17.290
<v Speaker 2>all just take two minutes each to say exactly what

0:14:17.330 --> 0:14:19.250
<v Speaker 2>we have going on, and then just kind of like

0:14:19.250 --> 0:14:21.170
<v Speaker 2>see if you can start with the quiet people so

0:14:21.210 --> 0:14:23.050
<v Speaker 2>they can get it over and done with, and then

0:14:23.090 --> 0:14:25.690
<v Speaker 2>the I guess the talk is the me and Sarah's

0:14:25.730 --> 0:14:28.130
<v Speaker 2>in your meeting can go last and we can just

0:14:28.170 --> 0:14:30.250
<v Speaker 2>like finish and then it's done.

0:14:30.330 --> 0:14:33.610
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, give us a deadline, like, say, how about

0:14:33.610 --> 0:14:36.010
<v Speaker 1>one dot point from everything? Yes, and then we have

0:14:36.090 --> 0:14:37.850
<v Speaker 1>to I mean, I can make a really bloody long

0:14:37.890 --> 0:14:40.250
<v Speaker 1>dot point, but still like, at least if I have

0:14:40.370 --> 0:14:43.050
<v Speaker 1>some kind of delineation that it should be just one point,

0:14:43.730 --> 0:14:45.850
<v Speaker 1>like that'll rain me in a little bit. So maybe yeah,

0:14:45.890 --> 0:14:46.890
<v Speaker 1>put some limits.

0:14:46.770 --> 0:14:47.690
<v Speaker 3>How to work with us?

0:14:48.170 --> 0:14:49.890
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, one oh one.

0:14:50.210 --> 0:14:52.330
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's all we have for this week. Thank you

0:14:52.370 --> 0:14:54.970
<v Speaker 2>so much for helping us clear the biz inbox. If

0:14:54.970 --> 0:14:57.450
<v Speaker 2>you've got a work question, send it our way. If

0:14:57.450 --> 0:15:00.290
<v Speaker 2>you have your own workplace drama, a career conundrum, or

0:15:00.290 --> 0:15:03.370
<v Speaker 2>office politics nightmare, we are here for it. Or we'll

0:15:03.370 --> 0:15:05.210
<v Speaker 2>put a link in our show notes for where you

0:15:05.250 --> 0:15:07.570
<v Speaker 2>can s admit all of those questions. You can also

0:15:07.610 --> 0:15:09.570
<v Speaker 2>have your name on this question, or you can be

0:15:09.690 --> 0:15:12.370
<v Speaker 2>completely anonymous if you'd rather know one find out who

0:15:12.370 --> 0:15:14.050
<v Speaker 2>you are. We completely get it.

0:15:14.290 --> 0:15:16.810
<v Speaker 1>If you've missed any of our previous episodes, they're all

0:15:16.890 --> 0:15:19.450
<v Speaker 1>right there in your feed waiting for you, and we'll

0:15:19.490 --> 0:15:22.530
<v Speaker 1>be back solving more workplace conundrums next week.

0:15:22.850 --> 0:15:23.810
<v Speaker 3>Bye see ya.

0:15:33.850 --> 0:15:37.210
<v Speaker 2>Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

0:15:37.210 --> 0:15:38.730
<v Speaker 2>that this podcast is recorded on