Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma mea podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to biz Inbox. I'm m Vernon and
Speaker 2: you just stepped into your judgment free zone for all
Speaker 2: things career related.
Speaker 1: And I'm Sarah Davidson, a lawyer turned entrepreneur, ready to
Speaker 1: get real about workplace challenges and dive into some workplace
Speaker 1: real talk.
Speaker 3: I am so excited.
Speaker 2: Think of these biz Inbox episodes as your career confessional booth.
Speaker 2: You can be completely anonymous if you're struggling with office politics,
Speaker 2: building a business, dealing with a boss from hell, whatever
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 3: We are all is.
Speaker 1: Today we're chatting about those colleagues who treat meetings like
Speaker 1: their very own ted talk me sorry to everyone, and
Speaker 1: proving your worth to your boss from your home office.
Speaker 1: But let's start off with a question we got in
Speaker 1: that's something that I think everyone on earth can relate to. Really,
Speaker 1: why public speaking is absolutely terrifying?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, this question tackles the number one workplace fear.
Speaker 2: And no, it's not accidentally replying all, which I have
Speaker 2: done more times than i'd like to admit.
Speaker 3: This comes in from.
Speaker 2: Casey and she wrote, I'm presenting to senior leadership tomorrow
Speaker 2: and I'm incredibly nervous. My voice tends to shake and
Speaker 2: I lose my train of thought when anxious. I've tried
Speaker 2: using voice notes to keep me on track, but then
Speaker 2: my shaking hands become even more obvious as I'm fumbling
Speaker 2: with paper. It's like my body is determined to expose
Speaker 2: my nerves one way or another. What techniques do you
Speaker 2: recommend for staying composed during high pressure conversations? Any tips
Speaker 2: would be so appreciated, Sarah, you do a lot of
Speaker 2: public speaking and a lot of presenting, like I feel
Speaker 2: like you are perfect to answer this question.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, well it's such a valid one, Casey,
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people. I can't remember
Speaker 1: what the statistic is, but a lot of people are
Speaker 1: more scared of public speaking than they are of like death.
Speaker 1: Like it's people's number one fear worldwide. Such anxiety inducing
Speaker 1: activity for so many, And I guess one of the
Speaker 1: first things is be gentle on yourself. Nerves are so normal.
Speaker 1: Even after I would say probably more than a thousand
Speaker 1: speaking gigs, I still get nervous. So the goal is
Speaker 1: not for the nerves to disappear completely. So that's one
Speaker 1: thing we all get nerves. It's a really good sign
Speaker 1: that you care about the outcome, that you care about
Speaker 1: doing a good job. It's just about, like you said,
Speaker 1: learning how to not let them totally overtake you. And
Speaker 1: there's a couple of things that really help with that.
Speaker 1: I think the first is practice. It definitely gets easier
Speaker 1: over time. So when I look at my first speaking
Speaker 1: gigs when I was, like, you know, really young, in
Speaker 1: my early twenties versus now, the comfort level is dramatically different,
Speaker 1: and that just comes with practice.
Speaker 3: But there are so.
Speaker 1: Many little things that you can do in the lead
Speaker 1: up that can sort of reduce the capacity of those
Speaker 1: nerves to overcome you. So deep breathing is a really
Speaker 1: big thing just beforehand, because your heart rate getting away
Speaker 1: from itself is part of the thing that makes you shake.
Speaker 1: It's the thing that makes your brain so flighty that
Speaker 1: you lose train of thought. So big deep breast beforehand.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of psychology around the poses that you
Speaker 1: stand in beforehand while you're doing that breathing to kind
Speaker 1: of instill a bit more confidence in you, sort of
Speaker 1: instead of shrinking away and having your shoulders round it,
Speaker 1: it's put your shoulders back so that you can get
Speaker 1: as much air into your body as you can. Practicing
Speaker 1: parts of your speech in advance so that if you
Speaker 1: do lose your train of thought, you've got muscle memory.
Speaker 1: Even just the intro. I feel like if you deliver
Speaker 1: that confidently, that helps carry you through the next bit.
Speaker 1: So I know it sounds silly, but doing your speech
Speaker 1: to your mirror the night before or in the weeks
Speaker 1: before that always actually really helps me feel more confident.
Speaker 3: Yeah, saying it out loud, out.
Speaker 1: Loud, and then the third thing that sounds a bit
Speaker 1: counterinto you is just to call it out. So I
Speaker 1: find when I am really really nervous if I start
Speaker 1: by saying, guys, I'm really nervous here. This is not
Speaker 1: my forte, but I really want to do a good job,
Speaker 1: so please excuse the shakes. For some reason, getting it
Speaker 1: out in the open, you stop feeling that you're chasing
Speaker 1: your tail, like you're trying to look more confident than
Speaker 1: you are. If you just kind of acknowledge it and
Speaker 1: say this isn't my forte, but I'm doing my best. Yeah,
Speaker 1: everyone in the audience will understand. No one is ever
Speaker 1: not nervous, so everyone will understand that it gets it
Speaker 1: out of the way. Then you kind of feel like
Speaker 1: the fumbling. No one's staring at you, going, oh, she's
Speaker 1: fumbling because they already know that you are. You've called
Speaker 1: it out, you've had a laugh, and then you move on.
Speaker 1: I find that really powerful.
Speaker 2: Oh these are such good tips, and Casey, I feel
Speaker 2: like my nervous ticks are very similar to yours. I
Speaker 2: recently went on a live tour with our podcast Mummy
Speaker 2: Out Loud, and we were talking in front of thousands
Speaker 2: of people, and most people I've spoken in front of
Speaker 2: was twenty, so I went from twenty two thousands and it.
Speaker 3: Was so scary.
Speaker 2: And one of my nervous sticks was similar to Casey,
Speaker 2: where like my hands shake, especially when I'm holding notes.
Speaker 2: So what I did, because all the other hosts would
Speaker 2: have these palm cards and they would read of these
Speaker 2: palm cards as guides every time in rehearsal I do that,
Speaker 2: I would just uncontrollably shake. So I actually just memorized
Speaker 2: my entire bit because I knew that was my nervous tick,
Speaker 2: and I went out without holding anything and it worked
Speaker 2: so well. So it is a lot more work you
Speaker 2: have to do, but I felt like for me, knowing
Speaker 2: that was my nervous tick, not having the palm cards
Speaker 2: was a big blocker for me. So not having them
Speaker 2: was just the best decision ever, and it just made
Speaker 2: me look so much more relaxed than when I was
Speaker 2: actually dying on the inside. Another little tip I have
Speaker 2: was from these girls. They have a podcast called Interview Boss.
Speaker 2: They're absolutely brilliant, and they say like, if you get
Speaker 2: nervous in interviews and things like that, clench your butt
Speaker 2: cheeks and you stop shaking. So if you go to
Speaker 2: pick up a glass of water and you feel yourself
Speaker 2: shaking picking up like glass of water, clench your butt cheeks.
Speaker 2: It works every time.
Speaker 3: That is such a good one.
Speaker 1: I actually saw this on your notes and I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know where this is going.
Speaker 3: But I love it, just me talking to myself in general.
Speaker 1: Do you know what is one other one I just
Speaker 1: thought of as well, which always helps me is that
Speaker 1: there will always be no matter how big or small
Speaker 1: your audience is. Some people have resting bitch face even
Speaker 1: if they're really engaged, and some people have resting encouragement face,
Speaker 1: And you'll know almost instantly the people who are going
Speaker 1: to be warm and receptive to what you're saying openly,
Speaker 1: like express it on their face. Go back to them.
Speaker 1: Don't look at the people who look like they've tuned
Speaker 1: out or that they're bored, because you'll start to spiral
Speaker 1: and you'll think, oh my god, no one's listening. There's
Speaker 1: always one person who smiles and nods at you, like
Speaker 1: physically nods. Just find them and talk to just them,
Speaker 1: and you'll block out everyone else, and that kind of
Speaker 1: reinforces to you that people are listening, people are enjoying this,
Speaker 1: and that helps quell those nerves. So I always have
Speaker 1: like my yeah, secret friend in the audience who probably
Speaker 1: don't know that they're holding me up or carrying me
Speaker 1: as much as they are, But there's always one find them.
Speaker 3: That's such a good point. Okay.
Speaker 2: Our next question is an anonymous one, which are always
Speaker 2: the juiciest ones, and this person says, hey, biz team,
Speaker 2: my performance review is in a few weeks and I'm
Speaker 2: a bit worried. I work from home most days and
Speaker 2: feel like my work is kind of invisible compared to
Speaker 2: the office crowd. I've been doing fine, nothing terrible, but
Speaker 2: nothing amazing. Either any quick wins or easy ways I
Speaker 2: can show my value and stand out before my review,
Speaker 2: especially when my boss can't actually see me working. This
Speaker 2: is such an interesting question because when I was thinking
Speaker 2: about it, I was like, surely that's not the case.
Speaker 2: But then I talk to some friends, and I have
Speaker 2: friends who are genuinely like my boss still expects everyone
Speaker 2: to be in the office. Like my boss, no matter
Speaker 2: how hard you work, my boss needs to see people
Speaker 2: in the office. Sarah, what's been your experience with what
Speaker 2: you've seen with work from home versus working in person
Speaker 2: and seeing people work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a fascinating question because I feel like
Speaker 1: most people will either have all this colleagues working from
Speaker 1: home so they don't have to prove their worth because
Speaker 1: they're all doing the same thing, or they all work
Speaker 1: in the office. So this is a really unique scenario
Speaker 1: where you are competing with peers who have more FaceTime
Speaker 1: than you, and they do have more opportunities to show
Speaker 1: their worth. So it's a bit of a tough one
Speaker 1: I think. In the end, I am so so pleased
Speaker 1: that we have come a long way in proving that
Speaker 1: you don't have to physically be there to have value
Speaker 1: and to do valuable work. The problem is it is
Speaker 1: going to be a little bit harder for you to
Speaker 1: show that, And I think that does mean you have
Speaker 1: to do a tiny bit more work to be out
Speaker 1: of back yourself up. And so my advice in this
Speaker 1: situation would be, so often we don't record what we
Speaker 1: do during the day. As a lawyer, you don't have
Speaker 1: that choice. We always had to record in six minute
Speaker 1: increments every single task that you do during the day
Speaker 1: to a client.
Speaker 3: That feels like a whole job in itself.
Speaker 1: It is an entire job. So at the end of
Speaker 1: the day you spend so many six minute units just
Speaker 1: on working out what you did. But it's a really
Speaker 1: good habit that I got into because now I have
Speaker 1: a list at the end of every day of what
Speaker 1: I worked on and how long I worked on it.
Speaker 1: And I think tracking what you do so that when
Speaker 1: you do have a performance review, you can show them
Speaker 1: and say, these are the tangible things that I worked
Speaker 1: on that you didn't see. Otherwise it just all blurs
Speaker 1: into one big I was at home and sure we
Speaker 1: finished the project, but your individual contribution to that project
Speaker 1: or valuable things that you added to the conversations get
Speaker 1: lost in the slack conversation or the email chain, so
Speaker 1: write dot points through the day and then you've got
Speaker 1: something actually tangible written down to present because you'll forget
Speaker 1: it as well, like you won't remember what part of
Speaker 1: that project was your contribution. So I think it really
Speaker 1: is record keeping and then packaging it up in a
Speaker 1: way that does show what your value is. Which is
Speaker 1: unfair that you have to do more work than your colleagues,
Speaker 1: but that's I think part of the challenge that we
Speaker 1: still face. So don't disadvantage yourself by just not keeping
Speaker 1: a rud.
Speaker 2: It's so true, and you also might find out that
Speaker 2: you have been doing way more than what you thought,
Speaker 2: Like I know sometimes when I work from home, because
Speaker 2: no one can actually see me working, so you end
Speaker 2: up just like even taking your phone to the bathroom,
Speaker 2: like I've done that so many times because people can't
Speaker 2: actually see you get up and go to the bathroom,
Speaker 2: or see you get up and go to lunch, like
Speaker 2: even those like little bits of like hey, just letting
Speaker 2: everyone know I'm going for lunch. Now, hey letting everyone
Speaker 2: know I'm back, Like you do do those extra things
Speaker 2: that like people in the office don't have to do.
Speaker 2: So keep that in mind, because you actually might be
Speaker 2: doing more than you realize.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. And if you've written it down, you
Speaker 1: can also track sort of the hours that you've invested
Speaker 1: as well. So if you want to be able to
Speaker 1: say I spent twenty hours on this task, you can
Speaker 1: back that up. Whereas if you're remembering it like two
Speaker 1: weeks later and you haven't written anything down, it's really
Speaker 1: hard to say, here is the time I spent on this.
Speaker 2: Oh good luck with this performance review. We are sure
Speaker 2: that you are going to absolutely smash it. Coming up next,
Speaker 2: we have a juicy dilemma about how to deal with
Speaker 2: overpowering co leagues. We have a question about a meeting
Speaker 2: phenomenon that we've all definitely experienced. It's those voices in
Speaker 2: those meetings that end up taking up all the oxygen
Speaker 2: in the room. So Beck DMed us asking I need
Speaker 2: some meeting advice. In our twice weekly team catch ups,
Speaker 2: the same two colleagues dominate every discussion without fail. The
Speaker 2: rest of us barely get a word in, and I've
Speaker 2: noticed some really valuable team members haven't spoken up in weeks.
Speaker 2: I'm not the meeting leader, just a regular participant, but
Speaker 2: I'd love some suggestions for how to create space for
Speaker 2: my quieter colleagues without making things awkward or seeming like
Speaker 2: I'm trying to take over any subtle hints that can
Speaker 2: actually work in real life. Ooh, this one's quite hard.
Speaker 2: I feel like, personally, I haven't experienced this, And then
Speaker 2: when I think about that, I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: was I the overbearing colleague that just took up.
Speaker 3: All the meetings?
Speaker 1: I was just about to say, I also haven't, and
Speaker 1: that's because you and I are the two people this.
Speaker 3: Question was about. Ask who is it? We're sorry, so
Speaker 3: it's a producer? So who wrote in?
Speaker 1: I think that's what's really hard, though, is that sometimes
Speaker 1: there are definitely dominant personalities in a workplace, but sometimes
Speaker 1: it's just people who are chatty. Like You're not dominating
Speaker 1: because you want to overpower your fellow colleagues who are quieter.
Speaker 1: You just love a good chat and if you feel
Speaker 1: like you've got something to contribute that's valuable. I will
Speaker 1: genuinely keep talking until someone stops me, and I don't
Speaker 1: mean to, you know, talk over people. And sometimes I've
Speaker 1: realized this kind of made me take a cold houd
Speaker 1: look at myself, like I might be cutting off other
Speaker 1: valuable opinions simply because I find it easier to talk
Speaker 1: in a group setting. So in this scenario, I sort
Speaker 1: of thought, give them the benefit of the doubt that
Speaker 1: they don't realize that they're doing it, and maybe create
Speaker 1: an opportunity for them to realize that they are and
Speaker 1: do something differently. And that might involve maybe your meeting
Speaker 1: leader on board, if you're not the meeting leader, take
Speaker 1: them aside and just mention that you've noticed this is happening,
Speaker 1: and perhaps pitch it as I don't think they're doing
Speaker 1: it on purpose, but perhaps we could sort of direct
Speaker 1: questions to the quieter colleague, and instead of opening up
Speaker 1: the floor, you could say, hey, so what do you
Speaker 1: think about this? You could start the meeting by giving
Speaker 1: that particular person a chance to speak, and do it
Speaker 1: that way, like take a bit more control from the
Speaker 1: top down. And that depends on your meeting leader, of course,
Speaker 1: and how open they are to that. But I think
Speaker 1: that's a really subtle way of doing it without anyone
Speaker 1: feeling like you've had to have it out and you've
Speaker 1: had to say, guys, shut up, like let the others speak.
Speaker 1: I think that's a really gentle way of doing it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that, and it also seems like me
Speaker 2: So it's a consistent meeting they have. It's like a
Speaker 2: twice weekly team catch up. So there's a reason you
Speaker 2: have that meeting. And obviously it's not getting executed to
Speaker 2: the best of its ability because so many people can't
Speaker 2: actually tell the room what they're doing. So maybe even
Speaker 2: just suggest to your team leader or to the whole
Speaker 2: team in one of those meetings, say I think it'd
Speaker 2: be more efficient if we just have some sort of
Speaker 2: structure in place for this meeting and be like, let's
Speaker 2: all just take two minutes each to say exactly what
Speaker 2: we have going on, and then just kind of like
Speaker 2: see if you can start with the quiet people so
Speaker 2: they can get it over and done with, and then
Speaker 2: the I guess the talk is the me and Sarah's
Speaker 2: in your meeting can go last and we can just
Speaker 2: like finish and then it's done.
Speaker 1: I'm like, give us a deadline, like, say, how about
Speaker 1: one dot point from everything? Yes, and then we have
Speaker 1: to I mean, I can make a really bloody long
Speaker 1: dot point, but still like, at least if I have
Speaker 1: some kind of delineation that it should be just one point,
Speaker 1: like that'll rain me in a little bit. So maybe yeah,
Speaker 1: put some limits.
Speaker 3: How to work with us?
Speaker 1: Yeah, one oh one.
Speaker 2: Well, that's all we have for this week. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much for helping us clear the biz inbox. If
Speaker 2: you've got a work question, send it our way. If
Speaker 2: you have your own workplace drama, a career conundrum, or
Speaker 2: office politics nightmare, we are here for it. Or we'll
Speaker 2: put a link in our show notes for where you
Speaker 2: can s admit all of those questions. You can also
Speaker 2: have your name on this question, or you can be
Speaker 2: completely anonymous if you'd rather know one find out who
Speaker 2: you are. We completely get it.
Speaker 1: If you've missed any of our previous episodes, they're all
Speaker 1: right there in your feed waiting for you, and we'll
Speaker 1: be back solving more workplace conundrums next week.
Speaker 3: Bye see ya.
Speaker 2: Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on