WEBVTT - A Morality Checklist For Cheerleaders 0:00:10.287 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:23.487 that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to 0:00:23.527 --> 0:00:26.247 Mamma Mia. Out loud. What women are actually talking about 0:00:26.247 --> 0:00:28.927 on Wednesday, the third of July. I'm Holly Wayne, right, 0:00:29.047 --> 0:00:30.287 I'm me and Friedman. 0:00:30.127 --> 0:00:31.327 And I'm Jesse Stevens. 0:00:31.367 --> 0:00:34.167 And we're still arguing about what happened on Monday and 0:00:34.247 --> 0:00:35.847 Jill Biden and May is still wrong. 0:00:35.967 --> 0:00:38.407 And I think you know, we're the only people who 0:00:38.487 --> 0:00:40.847 care about this as much as we do. Like we're 0:00:40.887 --> 0:00:42.847 all still rowing about Jill Biden. 0:00:43.367 --> 0:00:46.287 On the cover of Vogue. But she carries the weight 0:00:46.367 --> 0:00:48.127 of not just America above the world. 0:00:48.407 --> 0:00:49.847 Let's blame her on her shoulders. 0:00:50.127 --> 0:00:53.647 Not blaming, just saying she marries a great responsibility and 0:00:53.687 --> 0:00:55.167 she needs to tell him to stay. 0:00:55.287 --> 0:00:57.487 Can't bear it as if Mea knows what's going on 0:00:57.527 --> 0:01:00.767 in their kitchen anyway, she needs to hide the show 0:01:00.847 --> 0:01:04.487 today Pomp Pom's the Pink Economy and high kicks from 0:01:04.487 --> 0:01:08.407 help why everyone's arguing about Cheerley this this week? Also, 0:01:08.887 --> 0:01:11.407 here's a world leader allowed to have Friday night off? 0:01:11.607 --> 0:01:14.487 What about any leader? This is the latest spat in 0:01:14.527 --> 0:01:18.127 the UK election and a little known underdog called Taylor Swift. 0:01:18.167 --> 0:01:20.847 It's under attack from a finger wagon columnist and Mia 0:01:20.967 --> 0:01:25.527 kind of agrees with him. But first, Jesse Stephens. 0:01:25.007 --> 0:01:27.327 In case you missed it, there is a fiery debate 0:01:27.567 --> 0:01:32.887 unfolding about about Jill Biden. No, yes, you can find 0:01:32.887 --> 0:01:35.727 a way to make this Jill, Butden's fault. But Abby Chatfield, 0:01:35.727 --> 0:01:38.847 who's a podcast our television host, posted on Instagram this 0:01:38.967 --> 0:01:42.207 week and she posed an am I the ass whole question? 0:01:42.407 --> 0:01:45.407 My favorite type of question, which was essentially, am I 0:01:45.527 --> 0:01:48.487 wrong in thinking people shouldn't beep you when you get 0:01:48.487 --> 0:01:50.487 in your car and you're not ready to go yet? 0:01:50.727 --> 0:01:54.447 I actually think it's so rude. Here's a context. Abby 0:01:54.567 --> 0:01:57.287 had just finished her yoga class, and after her yoga class, 0:01:57.287 --> 0:01:59.047 she was feeling a bit dizzy, bit light headed, and 0:01:59.087 --> 0:02:01.887 she thought, shouldn't drive when I'm feeling dizzy. What I'll 0:02:01.887 --> 0:02:03.887 do is I'll have something to eat, so I'm a 0:02:03.927 --> 0:02:06.487 safe driver. So she sat in her driver's seat, she 0:02:06.567 --> 0:02:08.487 was having something to eat, and someone behind her is 0:02:08.487 --> 0:02:12.207 going babe, babe, and she was going, I've paid for parking. 0:02:12.247 --> 0:02:15.047 I've paid for one hour and thirty seven minutes, still 0:02:15.087 --> 0:02:18.087 got four minutes left. Go keep going. And she said, 0:02:18.127 --> 0:02:20.207 it's very rude of you to beep. I want to 0:02:20.247 --> 0:02:23.727 put this out. Maya is Abby the asshole is the 0:02:23.767 --> 0:02:24.567 beep of the asshole. 0:02:25.087 --> 0:02:28.127 I think Abby could have misinterpreted the beep. I've been 0:02:28.167 --> 0:02:30.087 in this position a lot, because what I've noticed is 0:02:30.127 --> 0:02:33.247 that people will get into their cars now and they'll 0:02:33.327 --> 0:02:35.847 check their phone. So they'll sit there, they'll check their 0:02:35.847 --> 0:02:37.807 phone for a while, might send a few messages to 0:02:37.847 --> 0:02:40.087 a bit of scrolling, and when you're looking for a 0:02:40.127 --> 0:02:44.207 car spot, that's really frustrating and also misleading and a 0:02:44.207 --> 0:02:47.527 bit confusing. So what I will sometimes do to get 0:02:47.527 --> 0:02:50.487 the attention of the driver who is absorbed in their 0:02:50.527 --> 0:02:54.967 phone or in their noodles, I will lightly go bebep. 0:02:55.287 --> 0:02:58.007 I'll tap my horn to get their attention, and then 0:02:58.007 --> 0:03:06.287 I'll say are you going or are you eating or scrolling? No, 0:03:06.367 --> 0:03:08.967 I'm not going, and I don't give them the middle finger. 0:03:09.287 --> 0:03:11.767 I then drive away. Am I a bit irritated? Yes? 0:03:11.927 --> 0:03:14.527 But it wasn't an aggressive beep. It was just like, hey, 0:03:14.767 --> 0:03:16.127 I need you to answer a question. 0:03:16.407 --> 0:03:19.567 If there are any beeps that aren't aggressive except a kidding, 0:03:19.607 --> 0:03:22.767 except for the beeps that are like watch out, you 0:03:22.807 --> 0:03:23.287 know what I mean. 0:03:23.407 --> 0:03:26.967 No, I don't use my horn ever, I don't even. 0:03:26.887 --> 0:03:29.447 Know where it is. You never don't know where my 0:03:29.487 --> 0:03:30.607 horn half your horn. 0:03:30.967 --> 0:03:34.607 I think it's like if you're lights or something and 0:03:34.647 --> 0:03:36.887 you want to get someone's attention and maybe they are scrolling, 0:03:36.927 --> 0:03:39.327 which is illegal. Well maybe they're distracted them a little 0:03:39.367 --> 0:03:41.167 daydream and they didn't see that the lights are changed. 0:03:41.687 --> 0:03:43.687 What you can do at night, I'll flash my high 0:03:43.727 --> 0:03:44.967 beans because that's. 0:03:44.807 --> 0:03:45.487 Better than beeping. 0:03:45.687 --> 0:03:47.567 But you can just give the horn a little tap. 0:03:47.767 --> 0:03:48.607 It's not aggressive. 0:03:48.647 --> 0:03:50.527 I don't mean like a beep. 0:03:50.647 --> 0:03:53.527 I just mean what I will say, is it getting 0:03:53.567 --> 0:03:57.767 into your car use your horn after like you've been 0:03:57.767 --> 0:03:59.287 shopping or you've been out, and you get back into 0:03:59.287 --> 0:04:02.287 your car, giving people the benefit of the doubt. Often 0:04:02.327 --> 0:04:04.047 you've got to get your maps up, you might have 0:04:04.127 --> 0:04:06.447 a quick work thing, you might have a message all 0:04:06.487 --> 0:04:08.607 of that to say that people are scrolling. And they 0:04:08.687 --> 0:04:11.367 might be, but I would rather them get their stuff 0:04:11.407 --> 0:04:15.647 sorted before they start driving than sort their maps out 0:04:15.767 --> 0:04:16.807 as they're going through the car. 0:04:17.207 --> 0:04:20.527 That parking spot is your parking spot until you vacate it. 0:04:20.647 --> 0:04:22.727 That's just the truth. That's the rule. This happened to 0:04:22.727 --> 0:04:24.367 me the other week. It wasn't in a car park. 0:04:24.407 --> 0:04:26.367 It was on the street and I was about to 0:04:26.447 --> 0:04:28.087 drive back from Sydney. This is whole thing. You never 0:04:28.087 --> 0:04:30.167 know someone's life to you. I was about to drive 0:04:30.207 --> 0:04:33.407 back from Sydney. That's a two hour drive. I got 0:04:33.527 --> 0:04:36.087 into my car. I needed to answer a couple of 0:04:36.167 --> 0:04:38.607 urgent messages before I set off, and then I needed 0:04:38.687 --> 0:04:40.887 to set, you know, a thing to play while I 0:04:40.927 --> 0:04:43.247 was going, And I needed to just sort myself out 0:04:43.247 --> 0:04:46.407 for a minute. Right, woman drives up next to me, 0:04:46.567 --> 0:04:50.727 bee bee and then going I'm doing their motion that 0:04:50.807 --> 0:04:52.847 meeah does, And I was like put my hand up, 0:04:52.847 --> 0:04:55.327 like give me a minute, and she's like woo, like 0:04:55.487 --> 0:04:58.847 gesturing wildly, really mad with me. Now, no doubt, I 0:04:58.887 --> 0:05:00.727 don't know her life. She's in a hurry, she's trying 0:05:00.767 --> 0:05:02.487 to find a park, maybe she's got a medical appointment, 0:05:02.487 --> 0:05:06.167 maybe she's got whatever. Right, but guys, we share the street. 0:05:06.527 --> 0:05:09.207 Just because I'm sitting in my car, it doesn't mean 0:05:09.527 --> 0:05:11.327 I have any lesser right to be there than you. 0:05:11.487 --> 0:05:13.167 I agree that there's an etiquette thing, which is if 0:05:13.207 --> 0:05:14.887 you see them waiting and I will do this a 0:05:14.887 --> 0:05:16.887 little gesture which is just like I'm actually going to 0:05:16.927 --> 0:05:18.367 be five or I'm gonna whatever. 0:05:18.527 --> 0:05:19.967 That's courteous. Don't hate that. 0:05:20.207 --> 0:05:22.567 Yeah, But I also think that we're taking out the 0:05:22.727 --> 0:05:25.207 lack of parking in cities on each other. 0:05:25.447 --> 0:05:25.767 Yeah. 0:05:25.847 --> 0:05:26.847 I just think it is a bit. 0:05:26.847 --> 0:05:28.447 Power about when you're in a shopping center the car 0:05:28.447 --> 0:05:30.447 park and you've got a pram and you get back 0:05:30.487 --> 0:05:32.727 to the car and someone's waiting for your spot and 0:05:32.727 --> 0:05:34.647 they're like, are you going, and you're like, yeah, I'm going, 0:05:34.847 --> 0:05:36.887 but it's going to take you a minute. I get 0:05:36.887 --> 0:05:39.687 the baby in, strap the baby in, fold down the thing, 0:05:39.767 --> 0:05:42.327 get all the stuff and the pressure they're waiting, and 0:05:42.327 --> 0:05:44.207 then people are backing up behind them and they're waiting 0:05:44.207 --> 0:05:47.327 and it's like, drive on, guys, find another car spot. 0:05:47.127 --> 0:05:48.527 Like go around the blociety. 0:05:48.767 --> 0:05:51.407 Yes, And then you start making mistakes being watched. So 0:05:51.447 --> 0:05:53.047 I'm gonna drop the baby and I'm gonna put the 0:05:53.047 --> 0:05:53.487 pram in the car. 0:05:53.607 --> 0:05:55.247 I'm just going to give the beeper the benefit of 0:05:55.287 --> 0:05:57.487 the doubt and saying that maybe they were just beeping 0:05:57.527 --> 0:06:01.607 to get her attention to ask her a question. You 0:06:01.687 --> 0:06:04.487 need to look like a supermodel, but perform like an athlete. 0:06:05.207 --> 0:06:08.727 Once that uniform comes on, all of the flaws and 0:06:08.727 --> 0:06:10.167 the problem go out the door. 0:06:11.527 --> 0:06:15.367 Everyone's talking about the biggest show worldwide on Netflix this week, 0:06:15.447 --> 0:06:19.807 America's Sweethearts Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders, and there is a ton 0:06:20.007 --> 0:06:22.647 to unpack about the show. It's a documentary in case 0:06:22.687 --> 0:06:26.727 you haven't seen it in many parts that covers the 0:06:26.967 --> 0:06:29.807 choosing of the twenty twenty three squad for the Dallas 0:06:29.847 --> 0:06:34.367 Cowboy cheerleaders, who are the most famous cheerleaders for probably 0:06:34.367 --> 0:06:38.407 the most famous team in the NFL, which is American Football. 0:06:39.367 --> 0:06:41.447 There's a ton to unpack about this show, which we 0:06:41.527 --> 0:06:45.527 have done on a separate episode for subscribers, everything from 0:06:45.527 --> 0:06:48.727 the incredibly strict rules that the cheerleaders have to follow. 0:06:48.927 --> 0:06:52.007 These rules cover everything from morality to the shape of 0:06:52.007 --> 0:06:56.047 their eyebrows and of course their weight. But today we 0:06:56.087 --> 0:06:58.207 want to talk about the topic of the pink economy 0:06:58.287 --> 0:07:00.607 and where the cheerleaders are having a bit of a 0:07:00.647 --> 0:07:03.487 resurgence worldwide after being a little bit on the nose 0:07:04.087 --> 0:07:08.127 over the last ten years or so. The Dallas Cowboys 0:07:08.207 --> 0:07:11.007 are one of the wealthiest and profitable NFL teams, they're 0:07:11.047 --> 0:07:15.887 worth around nine billion US dollars. Even though the cheerleaders 0:07:15.967 --> 0:07:20.487 as a business division within the company make millions of 0:07:20.487 --> 0:07:24.647 dollars through the sales of calendars and sponsorships, they personally 0:07:24.807 --> 0:07:28.287 only make for their season between about fifteen thousand twenty 0:07:28.287 --> 0:07:32.487 two thousand dollars, and that breaks down as about twelve 0:07:32.567 --> 0:07:35.207 dollars per hour they're paid, and about four hundred dollars 0:07:35.247 --> 0:07:38.687 on game days, which can last around eighteen hours. Obviously, 0:07:38.687 --> 0:07:41.447 their work is incredibly grueling. They have to do a 0:07:41.447 --> 0:07:44.647 lot of stuff like faetan and hair and makeup and 0:07:44.687 --> 0:07:46.527 all of that stuff that they have to do themselves. 0:07:47.047 --> 0:07:51.127 In comparison, a Dallas Cowboys mascot earns around sixty five 0:07:51.167 --> 0:07:54.327 thousand dollars. An NFL water boy, the guy who runs 0:07:54.367 --> 0:07:57.487 on the field with water fifty three thousand dollars he 0:07:57.607 --> 0:08:01.527 earns for the season. Now, they've been lawsuits in America. 0:08:01.727 --> 0:08:04.527 There was one from Buffalo Bill's cheerleader who claimed that 0:08:04.567 --> 0:08:06.847 she got just one hundred and five dollars for an 0:08:06.967 --> 0:08:09.607 entire season after she had all of her costs taken 0:08:09.607 --> 0:08:12.607 into account, including having to pay more than six hundred 0:08:12.607 --> 0:08:16.047 dollars for her own uniform. By twenty twenty, ten of 0:08:16.087 --> 0:08:19.087 the NFL's thirty two teams had been sued for wage 0:08:19.087 --> 0:08:22.487 theft and harassment and unsafe working conditions and discrimination, all 0:08:22.487 --> 0:08:25.407 different things. It got us wondering about what the situation 0:08:25.447 --> 0:08:28.927 with cheerleaders was here in Australia. Our daily news podcast 0:08:28.927 --> 0:08:31.487 The Quickie did a deep dive on cheerleaders in the 0:08:31.607 --> 0:08:34.527 NRL in Australia. Here's a little bit of that episode. 0:08:34.647 --> 0:08:37.967 When you finally were getting paid, Were you getting paid enough? 0:08:39.087 --> 0:08:39.367 Well? 0:08:39.487 --> 0:08:42.647 No, upon reflection, it was like fifty dollars a game 0:08:42.687 --> 0:08:43.567 that would get paid. 0:08:43.687 --> 0:08:46.007 So you're not doing it for the money, You're doing 0:08:46.007 --> 0:08:50.367 it for the love and you're obviously working another job 0:08:50.527 --> 0:08:52.447 on the side. I had a full time role and 0:08:52.487 --> 0:08:54.127 I would you know, at the end of the day, 0:08:54.287 --> 0:08:57.447 get into the bathroom, jazz up, drive off to the 0:08:57.487 --> 0:09:00.207 cheerleading gig and get that done as well. So, yeah, 0:09:00.247 --> 0:09:01.687 you're juggling the life. 0:09:01.847 --> 0:09:05.047 Did you feel pressure, even if it wasn't implicitly implied. 0:09:05.087 --> 0:09:08.007 Did you feel pressured to maintain a certain weight whilst 0:09:08.007 --> 0:09:09.247 you were performing as a cheerleader? 0:09:09.727 --> 0:09:12.487 Yeah? Absolutely, I mean that is very standard in the 0:09:12.567 --> 0:09:17.047 dance industry generally, it's something we're always dealing with. I've 0:09:17.047 --> 0:09:20.407 had other contracts where we've been weighed weekly. We weren't 0:09:20.447 --> 0:09:23.207 specifically with the cheer squad weight or anything like that, 0:09:23.327 --> 0:09:27.247 but it is very much an unspoken rule that yet 0:09:27.447 --> 0:09:29.447 you have to maintain the same weight as you were 0:09:29.527 --> 0:09:31.127 hired Jesse, do you. 0:09:31.127 --> 0:09:33.567 Think we should implement way ins here? Nonma me are 0:09:33.567 --> 0:09:35.607 out that well. 0:09:36.007 --> 0:09:38.407 I think what you really should be asking is, if 0:09:38.447 --> 0:09:40.247 you guys love this job so much, then why are 0:09:40.247 --> 0:09:40.847 we paying you? 0:09:41.927 --> 0:09:43.967 Because a lot of people would like to host this show. 0:09:43.927 --> 0:09:46.007 Exactly, And I thought you did it for the love. 0:09:46.327 --> 0:09:47.927 And if you did it for the love, everyone knows 0:09:47.967 --> 0:09:48.887 you can't also be paid. 0:09:49.847 --> 0:09:51.487 Makes it out loud as happy? Isn't that what you do? 0:09:51.607 --> 0:09:54.247 Yeah? Exactly right, and we know if you're not doing it, 0:09:54.687 --> 0:09:58.247 I've got five hundred other girls, yeah, with false eyelashes 0:09:58.287 --> 0:10:00.167 and big hair that are very happy to take your spot. 0:10:00.607 --> 0:10:02.607 We were talking in the subscriber episode and when he 0:10:02.727 --> 0:10:04.527 sat down it was meant to be a short episode 0:10:04.527 --> 0:10:05.567 and I had forty minutes. 0:10:05.607 --> 0:10:08.367 We thought we'd probably overdone. 0:10:07.927 --> 0:10:10.847 It and was like, I'm turning the microphone. 0:10:10.327 --> 0:10:11.967 And it still wasn't enough. So we're like let's talk 0:10:11.967 --> 0:10:13.047 about it on the main show. 0:10:13.807 --> 0:10:16.047 When we talked about it there, we were saying, I 0:10:16.127 --> 0:10:22.527 can't imagine a male comparison, Like the football players also 0:10:22.647 --> 0:10:25.207 love it and also love the camaraderie, but they also 0:10:25.807 --> 0:10:28.007 are decently paid. And one thing that I've learned from 0:10:28.487 --> 0:10:33.047 this show as well as cheer is the incredible athleticism 0:10:33.367 --> 0:10:36.647 of these dancers, of these cheerleaders. And I was thinking 0:10:36.687 --> 0:10:40.527 about how culturally, probably from Bring It On, remember the 0:10:40.527 --> 0:10:43.007 movie Bring It On. Yeah, it's like we have been 0:10:43.087 --> 0:10:47.767 trying to relaunch or rebrand or rehabilitate the cheerleading image 0:10:47.767 --> 0:10:51.447 because certainly in the nineties, after a few waves of feminism, 0:10:51.807 --> 0:10:54.167 it was seen as a bit on the nose and 0:10:54.207 --> 0:10:57.207 potentially objectifying. I was a kid who went to a 0:10:57.207 --> 0:11:00.087 lot of NRL games and you would see the cheerleaders 0:11:00.087 --> 0:11:01.527 and you would hear the way that the men talked 0:11:01.567 --> 0:11:05.127 about them, and I didn't feel that it was aspirational 0:11:05.167 --> 0:11:07.567 at that time, because I thought I would never want 0:11:07.607 --> 0:11:08.647 men to talk about me. 0:11:09.447 --> 0:11:12.607 Bed cheerleader when I was a kid, really desperately. I 0:11:12.647 --> 0:11:15.327 remember in two thousand and seven, You're right, that's kind 0:11:15.327 --> 0:11:16.767 of when it started to be a little bit on 0:11:16.807 --> 0:11:20.327 the nose and Russell Crowe, who owns the South Sydney 0:11:20.367 --> 0:11:24.647 Rabbito's club, he got rid of cheerleaders for them because 0:11:24.687 --> 0:11:28.327 he said it made male fans feel uncomfortable, which I 0:11:28.327 --> 0:11:30.447 don't know if that's true. And he said our focus, 0:11:30.527 --> 0:11:33.127 I know exactly what he's saying, re established rugby league 0:11:33.167 --> 0:11:36.327 and women. So he was saying that the cheerleaders would 0:11:36.727 --> 0:11:38.767 sexualize the atmosphere and they were trying to make it 0:11:38.807 --> 0:11:41.407 more of a family game. So he briefly replaced them 0:11:41.407 --> 0:11:44.247 with a group of drummers male and female, so there 0:11:44.327 --> 0:11:47.247 was like halftime entertainment that only lasted a couple of years. 0:11:47.247 --> 0:11:49.287 They went very popular and now they just have music 0:11:49.287 --> 0:11:50.687 and videos on the big screen. 0:11:50.647 --> 0:11:52.287 As to quite a lot of teams in the NRL. 0:11:52.367 --> 0:11:54.407 So the reason in Australia we'd be talking about the 0:11:54.487 --> 0:11:56.807 NRL is the AFL do not have cheerleaders. They did 0:11:56.847 --> 0:11:58.807 once upon a time there was something called the Swantt's 0:11:58.807 --> 0:12:01.047 and Sydney Swans in fact, but they haven't done for 0:12:01.127 --> 0:12:04.607 ages and ages, whereas these days some NRL teams do 0:12:04.727 --> 0:12:08.607 and some NRL teams don't. More than half do. Still though, 0:12:09.247 --> 0:12:11.807 it's interesting because the two dancers who were interviewed on 0:12:11.847 --> 0:12:14.407 the Quickie were both NURL cheerleaders, and they were talking 0:12:14.767 --> 0:12:16.927 as they said about how the reasons why they did it, 0:12:16.967 --> 0:12:19.287 because as they spelled it out, it wasn't money, that's 0:12:19.327 --> 0:12:22.007 for sure, because they're saying that what your job entails 0:12:22.047 --> 0:12:25.127 is at least two rehearsals a week, meeting greets before 0:12:25.167 --> 0:12:27.767 and after the game, staying on the field to watch 0:12:27.807 --> 0:12:30.807 the entire game always, obviously, and all that breaks down 0:12:30.847 --> 0:12:32.687 to an HOURI rate of about five dollars an hour. 0:12:32.767 --> 0:12:34.007 So you're not doing it for the money. So they 0:12:34.007 --> 0:12:37.567 said why do they do it? They said they loved dancing, 0:12:37.647 --> 0:12:40.047 love performing, love rugby league, wanted to be part of 0:12:40.087 --> 0:12:43.407 the club and participate. Now, the thing that I find 0:12:43.487 --> 0:12:45.527 really hard to unpick in all this because watching the 0:12:45.607 --> 0:12:48.047 Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders show, and we said this on the 0:12:48.047 --> 0:12:50.927 show yesterday, there is no doubt I got to the 0:12:51.047 --> 0:12:53.607 end of that series and had nothing but admiration for 0:12:53.687 --> 0:12:56.927 these dancers. I really did. They were all amazing women, 0:12:56.967 --> 0:12:59.607 They all had other jobs, are doing amazing things. Their 0:12:59.647 --> 0:13:03.047 work ethic was unquestionable. They behaved towards each other in 0:13:03.687 --> 0:13:07.127 a really beautiful sisterly way. There was no I didn't 0:13:07.167 --> 0:13:10.607 have any criticism of them. I find it interesting that 0:13:10.647 --> 0:13:14.087 when I was consuming this documentary in an obsessive fashion 0:13:14.087 --> 0:13:16.847 over the past week or so, whenever my teenage daughter 0:13:16.847 --> 0:13:18.607 would walk in the room, I would turn it off 0:13:19.207 --> 0:13:22.207 because I didn't really want her to see it. Why, 0:13:22.407 --> 0:13:24.047 you know what I mean, Like if I question myself, 0:13:24.047 --> 0:13:25.967 and one of the things is is that my daughter, 0:13:26.247 --> 0:13:30.447 who's fourteen, loves sport, and she's a mad AFL player, 0:13:30.887 --> 0:13:33.367 and so every Sunday and actually four times a week 0:13:33.367 --> 0:13:36.007 at the moment, she is out on a field running 0:13:36.087 --> 0:13:39.207 around in short shorts and a tight top, but running 0:13:39.247 --> 0:13:43.567 around getting muddy, getting dirty, getting sweaty, playing the actual game. 0:13:44.127 --> 0:13:48.567 I respect dancers enormously, and I respect the entertainment factor, 0:13:49.007 --> 0:13:51.607 but I think it's very hard to unpick in a 0:13:51.647 --> 0:13:54.847 code like NRL in particular, that has a lot of issues. 0:13:54.927 --> 0:13:57.967 Let's be honest with attitudes towards women that they've been 0:13:57.967 --> 0:14:00.687 trying to undo with various levels of commitment and success 0:14:00.767 --> 0:14:04.687 for decades, that the involvement of women they want is 0:14:04.807 --> 0:14:09.727 that kind a decorative, ornamental role that is their scifically 0:14:09.807 --> 0:14:12.247 to applaud when the men on the field do something 0:14:12.327 --> 0:14:15.647 good rather than doing the thing themselves. And what's interesting 0:14:15.727 --> 0:14:17.527 is the world is shifting that way. Last week it 0:14:17.527 --> 0:14:20.527 was the NRL Women's State of Origin Final. It was 0:14:20.607 --> 0:14:23.967 sold out in a massive stadium. They had two million 0:14:24.047 --> 0:14:28.567 people watching it on television. That is unprecedented. That is changed. 0:14:28.607 --> 0:14:30.847 That is happening at an amazing rate. It was a 0:14:30.847 --> 0:14:32.927 great game. My daughter watched that and oh my god, 0:14:33.047 --> 0:14:36.687 was she in All of those women who were smashing 0:14:36.767 --> 0:14:39.327 into each other on the field, thrown them on the floor, 0:14:39.847 --> 0:14:42.367 highly competitive competing for a cup. 0:14:42.647 --> 0:14:45.487 I'm in awe of the athleticism of the dancers too. 0:14:45.527 --> 0:14:47.207 And I know it is saying holly because even in 0:14:47.247 --> 0:14:51.687 the documentary, you watch it and you see that. So 0:14:51.807 --> 0:14:56.367 Dallas cowboys at this incredibly powerful, wealthy institution. If you 0:14:56.447 --> 0:14:59.167 want to be part of it, your options are cheerleader 0:14:59.847 --> 0:15:02.927 or biologically related to men who runs. 0:15:02.687 --> 0:15:04.647 It, maybe working behind the scenes. I'm sure they've got 0:15:04.687 --> 0:15:05.887 a lot of women in the offices. 0:15:06.087 --> 0:15:08.927 Most of the women that we saw were kind of 0:15:08.967 --> 0:15:11.407 the your leader. And it is a powerful institution, right, 0:15:11.847 --> 0:15:12.407 So it's very. 0:15:12.407 --> 0:15:15.247 Much the ultimate patriarchal structure. Whereas the men are doing 0:15:15.287 --> 0:15:18.247 the things, and the women are literally supporting them and 0:15:18.327 --> 0:15:18.927 cheering them. 0:15:19.247 --> 0:15:20.327 Who are we blaming here? 0:15:20.327 --> 0:15:24.087 And I think about my self and my own naivety 0:15:24.367 --> 0:15:29.007 and being probably quite judgmental years and years ago, where 0:15:29.167 --> 0:15:32.207 I would look at the cheerleaders and what they were 0:15:32.247 --> 0:15:37.247 wearing or whatever and would probably denigrate a little bit them. 0:15:37.487 --> 0:15:41.247 That's internalized misogyny, and that's almost victim blaming because it's like, 0:15:41.847 --> 0:15:44.967 if you are a dancer, and dancers are some of 0:15:45.047 --> 0:15:50.647 the most athletic, hard working, impressive athletes, I know, poorly. 0:15:50.487 --> 0:15:53.207 Paid as well, Yes, what are your options? 0:15:53.287 --> 0:15:56.007 And if you love dancing, if you love dancing and 0:15:56.047 --> 0:15:57.367 you're really really good at. 0:15:57.367 --> 0:15:59.807 To dance at home, yeah, I guess like. 0:16:00.207 --> 0:16:03.807 Yeah, I totally understand why that would be what you do, 0:16:04.447 --> 0:16:08.407 and we all routinely undermine it, just like we do anything. 0:16:08.767 --> 0:16:11.647 I think so because part of what you need to 0:16:11.727 --> 0:16:16.287 do in that context is the sexy aspect. So you 0:16:16.367 --> 0:16:18.607 can't pretend that that's not part of it. They're not 0:16:18.687 --> 0:16:22.647 out there in comfortable clothes and shoes. It's sexualized. And 0:16:22.807 --> 0:16:26.687 the dancers themselves say, oh, because we've got to move 0:16:26.687 --> 0:16:29.567 this certain way, which is like hips. First, we're all 0:16:29.607 --> 0:16:32.127 throwing our backs out, we've got you know, broken hips, 0:16:32.167 --> 0:16:36.447 we're damaging our bodies because it's quite sexualized. That is 0:16:36.527 --> 0:16:39.007 very different to just say ballet. And I'm not saying 0:16:39.047 --> 0:16:42.287 there's anything wrong with it, but when you say, oh, 0:16:42.327 --> 0:16:44.967 why does it make us feel a bit as women? 0:16:45.447 --> 0:16:46.647 I think it's that part. 0:16:47.047 --> 0:16:49.567 I reckon that this could be a cultural reckoning where 0:16:49.567 --> 0:16:52.247 we're pivoting and going hang on. I was even thinking 0:16:52.247 --> 0:16:53.647 with cheer, and even with this, I was. 0:16:53.567 --> 0:16:55.687 Like, there should be an Olympics. I would watch this. 0:16:57.327 --> 0:17:00.607 Like cheer should definitely be in the Olympics. But if 0:17:00.647 --> 0:17:03.167 you haven't watched it, and maybe you've watched cheer, cheer 0:17:03.207 --> 0:17:05.767 is different. So that is literally about gymnastics. It's about 0:17:06.047 --> 0:17:08.967 doing links and pyramids and all that kind of stuff. 0:17:09.447 --> 0:17:12.087 In cheer, they're not cheering, they're anyone on the sideline 0:17:12.127 --> 0:17:14.767 of a game. They're the main event. And it's also 0:17:14.967 --> 0:17:17.407 you know, men and women. But for this it's literally 0:17:17.407 --> 0:17:19.367 on the side of the event. As Holly said, it's 0:17:19.647 --> 0:17:23.087 either halftime entertainment or when the men do something on 0:17:23.127 --> 0:17:25.927 the field, the women do little dancers on the side. 0:17:26.287 --> 0:17:29.207 And it's also being ambassadors because they also go out 0:17:29.207 --> 0:17:31.287 into the community, and they make calendars and they sign 0:17:31.327 --> 0:17:34.807 and they go visit people in nursing homes and kindergartens 0:17:34.847 --> 0:17:36.967 and they bring some of that glamour. So they're part 0:17:37.047 --> 0:17:40.007 of the branding, but it's like the sex cells. 0:17:39.767 --> 0:17:41.407 Part of the back. I think the reason I feel 0:17:41.447 --> 0:17:44.167 uncomfortable because I've said before, when the NRL was having 0:17:44.207 --> 0:17:45.887 this big reckoning and trying to figure out how to 0:17:45.887 --> 0:17:47.967 get more women at games and make them feel more comfortable, 0:17:48.007 --> 0:17:50.087 that's when a lot of teams started letting their cheerleaders go. 0:17:50.127 --> 0:17:52.847 And I remember writing some stories around that and getting 0:17:52.887 --> 0:17:55.647 pushback from women who worked in that field and being like, 0:17:56.087 --> 0:17:59.087 you make it sound like I am a stripper, and 0:17:59.127 --> 0:18:02.207 they say, no disrespect to dancers who are working in 0:18:02.247 --> 0:18:04.767 adult clubs, but that is not what I do, and 0:18:04.807 --> 0:18:07.167 you're making it sound like I am. And this is 0:18:07.167 --> 0:18:09.927 a highly skilled thing and all that stuff. I totally 0:18:09.967 --> 0:18:11.527 take all that on board, and as I said, watching 0:18:11.527 --> 0:18:13.727 these women have nothing but admiration, I think the problem 0:18:13.847 --> 0:18:16.887 is it feels like a throwback to a time when 0:18:16.927 --> 0:18:19.047 that was the only way women could get status in 0:18:19.087 --> 0:18:22.287 that world, right, and in the world full style, yes, 0:18:22.327 --> 0:18:25.527 but specifically in male dominated environments. Like that is that 0:18:25.687 --> 0:18:29.167 you think about the cheerleader, Think about every high school 0:18:29.207 --> 0:18:32.607 movie you've ever seen, any story you've ever read about 0:18:32.607 --> 0:18:34.527 that world, particularly in America, and it is an imported 0:18:34.567 --> 0:18:37.847 American thing here in Australia. The cheerleaders are the popular, 0:18:37.887 --> 0:18:40.807 the girls, the beautiful girls, the girls who date the quarterback, 0:18:40.927 --> 0:18:43.607 the girls everybody's like either wants to be or is 0:18:43.647 --> 0:18:47.247 frightened off right. And so when I look at these 0:18:47.287 --> 0:18:49.327 women and you think, oh, you get to play in 0:18:49.327 --> 0:18:52.647 that world, but only in that role, it sort of 0:18:52.687 --> 0:18:55.887 throws me back to that idea. Whereas actually, now, as 0:18:55.927 --> 0:18:58.247 I was just saying about the Women's NRL, there are 0:18:58.247 --> 0:19:00.487 lots of different ways that women can be involved in 0:19:00.527 --> 0:19:03.647