Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Mama Mia out loud. It's what
Speaker 1: women actually talking about on Monday, the twenty second of June.
Speaker 1: And I am Holly Wayne right, I'm Claire Stevens. Welcome back.
Speaker 1: Sorry Amelia, but you were off a bit.
Speaker 2: Last week and I think somehow Loud has thought I'd
Speaker 2: had a baby and I was like, guys, like I
Speaker 2: honestly like I wish, but no, I was just sick
Speaker 2: and it was boring and I had to listen to
Speaker 2: you guys without fighting back. It was annoying.
Speaker 1: I'm Amelia Lessa And here's what's made our agenda for today.
Speaker 2: Olivia Wilde is finally talking about that cursed don't worry
Speaker 2: Darling pressed to her and why she inexplicably became one
Speaker 2: of the most hated women in the world.
Speaker 1: The shit skirt is casting around for a new British
Speaker 1: prime minister to wear it. What you need to know
Speaker 1: about the mess of UK politics right now and what
Speaker 1: it might say about ours.
Speaker 3: And I have a very simple, completely free way to
Speaker 3: start your day better.
Speaker 1: But first, in case you missed it, So it seems
Speaker 1: that the Keith Urban Nicole Kidman divorce has taken a
Speaker 1: lovely turn.
Speaker 3: Oh how nice?
Speaker 1: Who would have thought this? It was about nine months
Speaker 1: ago that that split came out of the blue, didn't it.
Speaker 3: At least I was in the Mumamea offices that day
Speaker 3: and that was just I think that was the biggest
Speaker 3: day in history.
Speaker 1: Everybody lost their minds. Now, they obviously knew it was
Speaker 1: coming because by the time we heard about it, their
Speaker 1: settlement was almost done. So as far as we know,
Speaker 1: this could have been brewing for a while, but it
Speaker 1: certainly came out of nowhere for us. But it seems
Speaker 1: that things are amicable now because social media slutes know
Speaker 1: these things. First of all, it was Nicole Kidman's birthday
Speaker 1: on Saturday, and Keith Urban actually made a story and
Speaker 1: put it on his stories and it just had text
Speaker 1: lower case happy Birthday, Nicole Mary.
Speaker 2: Which makes her more relatable because I feel like every
Speaker 2: Australian woman their middle name is either Mary or Marie
Speaker 2: or Louise. Like I like that she's Nicole Mary.
Speaker 1: And I think maybe one of the daughters like showed
Speaker 1: him how to do it. Yeah, like I'm not doing
Speaker 1: too much. Wasn't just a lowercase story. It wasn't a
Speaker 1: very good story, and their design it wasn't there was
Speaker 1: no design, and then the next day with design kidman
Speaker 1: posts for father's sakes. It's just been Father's Day on
Speaker 1: the other side of the world, and she had a
Speaker 1: split screen photo of her late dad and then Keith
Speaker 1: with his girls and wished all the good dadsy So
Speaker 1: things have gone nice?
Speaker 3: Do I like this? That's interesting because I feel like
Speaker 3: it's very fraught about when and how you interact with
Speaker 3: X's on social media or in general, whether you reach
Speaker 3: out to them on their birthday.
Speaker 1: What do you think? Do you think would you?
Speaker 2: I don't believe it. I don't believe you can be
Speaker 2: amicable this quickly. I think there's tension, but I think
Speaker 2: it's very clever that they're pretending to be I think
Speaker 2: that's quite lovely. But it's like, don't pretend that there
Speaker 2: hasn't been any.
Speaker 1: Drama, but don't you think that it's possible that all
Speaker 1: the drama happened? Or because apparently, if reports are to
Speaker 1: be believed, their settlement has been relatively stress free. They've
Speaker 1: both agreed to not go for alimony, not go for
Speaker 1: any spousal support anything like that. She walks away with
Speaker 1: her money, he walks away with his They've got a
Speaker 1: very straightforward custody agreement with the kids, which is joint,
Speaker 1: but she's primary parent and if reports as to be believed,
Speaker 1: schorelous here she is dating again. Remember there was all
Speaker 1: the gossip about him. Maybe is she dating Simon Baker?
Speaker 1: I wish she was because that would be great.
Speaker 3: But although I don't know, you don't know about it.
Speaker 1: Apparently she's dating a businessman.
Speaker 3: Oh that's that's a big Hollywood move these days. Reese
Speaker 3: has got a businessman on.
Speaker 1: The Chairman of the Border MGM, and he's called Paul Salem.
Speaker 1: Allegedly he's divorced with four daughters.
Speaker 3: And again regardless vibe here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so maybe things have just maybe Nichole's just
Speaker 1: like cool, let's get back to social media and I,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: He's been hanging out at mar Lago, So I feel
Speaker 3: like they're diverging in many ways at this point.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Well, Sunday, the daughter she unfollowed her dad
Speaker 2: on Instagram and April, so I think she might say
Speaker 2: that this Sunday.
Speaker 1: I thought you were talking about Father's Day on Sunday.
Speaker 1: She did that Sunday, Yes, sorry, Sunday, you don't.
Speaker 3: Miss the thing, Joe gest stating and checking out Sundays following.
Speaker 2: She followed him again, unfollowed and followed. But I just
Speaker 2: think you can say, oh you want about the legal process,
Speaker 2: That's what I care about.
Speaker 3: I've got another little bit of social media news from celebs,
Speaker 3: which is that Anne Halfaway is joining the ranks of
Speaker 3: celebrities who are pregnant well into their forties. She posted
Speaker 3: over the weekend in what looked like a kind of
Speaker 3: like Lily Allen coated Brooklyn Brownstone vibe type backdrop. She
Speaker 3: was wearing this very sheet cheesecloth number and it showed off.
Speaker 3: Dare I say she was flaunting a baby bump.
Speaker 1: She is pregnant real estate agent over here with the
Speaker 1: brown style.
Speaker 3: Sorry, it was very yesteryear coded right, this cheesecloth number
Speaker 3: that she was in. And now there's a lot of
Speaker 3: other celebrities who are pregnant into their forties right now.
Speaker 3: Natalie Portman is pregnant, she's forty five. Giselle was forty
Speaker 3: four when she had her latest and Cianna Miller, of
Speaker 3: course we've talked about on the show, was forty three.
Speaker 3: So I was interested to see what the story was
Speaker 3: with Anne Hathaway's other children. I knew vaguely she had children,
Speaker 3: but she is very private about it, so I kind
Speaker 3: of had to dig a little. But it turns out
Speaker 3: her first child was born a full ten years ago.
Speaker 3: That's quite a spread, and then her second and twenty nineteen,
Speaker 3: and she's talked a lot about going through infertility and
Speaker 3: conception house, so it's very nice news.
Speaker 1: I don't even know who her partner is. Same guy
Speaker 1: with all the kids, same guy, same guy. That's very
Speaker 1: private and he so little.
Speaker 2: Fun story. I was in Positano, I'm going to say
Speaker 2: fifteen years ago, and I was standing at a bus
Speaker 2: stop and I.
Speaker 3: Sorry, Impositano, but you were saying it a bus john
Speaker 3: a lot about the quality of my.
Speaker 2: Holidays a few years ago, Yes, And I looked across
Speaker 2: the road and I went, that's Anne Hathaway and she
Speaker 2: was with the same guy that she's still with.
Speaker 3: I googled the Italian fraudsters that was a great.
Speaker 2: Before, same same guy, because I was like, I don't
Speaker 2: recognize yeah, and then when I googled him, I was like,
Speaker 2: that's exactly who she was with. And I was so excited.
Speaker 2: But this was this was pre kids. Pre everything, but no,
Speaker 2: I have been on holiday with Anne halfway you have.
Speaker 1: Definitely this all buys into my theory that we're living
Speaker 1: in an age of agelessness, that like the longevity tech
Speaker 1: bros are all about, you know, not eating food and
Speaker 1: doing all that stuff to live forever. But the female
Speaker 1: version of that is extension of fertility. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's now just because I'm old, but now
Speaker 1: I'm like forties so young, you have so much time.
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the most bizarre realities of celebrity culture
Speaker 2: is that a story can completely take over the zeitgeist
Speaker 2: for weeks or months at a time, and then just
Speaker 2: as quickly as it appeared, it's entirely forgotten. And then
Speaker 2: when it comes up again, we're like, oh, yeah, that
Speaker 2: was bat sheet insane. So with the clarity of hindsight,
Speaker 2: often you can't work out why everyone lost their minds.
Speaker 2: And this is the case with the scandal of the
Speaker 2: Don't Worry Darling press tour with Olivia Wilds.
Speaker 3: This was one of my favorite moments and pop culture ever.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it. I saw a tweet that was like,
Speaker 2: it's q andon for highly online people. Yeah, and I'm
Speaker 2: like that's what it was for me. Like the closer
Speaker 2: you look, the more you found it.
Speaker 3: I think Q and on is also Q and on
Speaker 3: for I take a p.
Speaker 2: That's very true. So very luckily we got Olivia Wilde
Speaker 2: sitting down on Call Her Daddy last week to unpack
Speaker 2: all the details of the Gossip of the Press. Too
Speaker 2: are with Alex.
Speaker 3: Cooper because apparently her new movie is really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, The Invitation and it's called with Sethrob.
Speaker 1: I believe it. Her first movie that she directed was brilliant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the book smart and I've always given her a lit
Speaker 1: I know credit.
Speaker 2: And can we just acknowledge don't worry, Darling was an
Speaker 2: excellent film. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: I didn't watch it.
Speaker 2: That's the prob.
Speaker 3: I didn't watch it. The controversy I say too much.
Speaker 1: She's really smart, like on this. In this interview, she
Speaker 1: talks about how she's always wanted to direct her now
Speaker 1: she is a proper director. She's followed Greta Gerwick and
Speaker 1: all the rest of it. And one of the things
Speaker 1: that's really interesting that she says, though she says it's
Speaker 1: given her speaking of agelessness, she said she feels like
Speaker 1: she can relax. It's given her some longevity because otherwise
Speaker 1: you cast out at an early age.
Speaker 2: Anyway, she's very talented. So in twenty twenty two, for
Speaker 2: those who have forgotten the headlines about the Cursed, don't worry,
Speaker 2: Darling pressed who are were everywhere and the drama kicked
Speaker 2: off in April when Olivia Wilde, who directed the film,
Speaker 2: was at CinemaCon and she's on stage talking about the
Speaker 2: movie and she is served custody that were from via
Speaker 2: her ex Jason sidekis ted Lasso.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's why I will never believe he did it
Speaker 1: on purpose, because he's Ted Lasso.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really challenged a lot of what we thought
Speaker 2: about that man. But so she served these papers and
Speaker 2: in that moment she was seen as a bit of
Speaker 2: a victim. People went, that would be absolutely awful.
Speaker 1: It's unquestionably a shitty thing to do in front of
Speaker 1: all these people, just derail her whole professional moments.
Speaker 2: So bad. But I think it really did put a
Speaker 2: spotlight on people being like, oh, she was with ted
Speaker 2: Lasso and now they're no longer together and they have
Speaker 2: kids together, so people kind of had that in their minds.
Speaker 2: Then later in the year don't worry, Darling comes out
Speaker 2: and it was largely overshadowed by a whole lot of
Speaker 2: other drama. So Olivia Wilde was dating the lead actor,
Speaker 2: Harry Styles, who was ten years her junior and currently
Speaker 2: Florence Pugh, who was the lead actress, was pissed about it,
Speaker 2: and this there did actually seem to be legs to
Speaker 2: the fact that Florence Peugh was pitched. She made a
Speaker 2: few statements. She went to Venice Film Festival and didn't
Speaker 2: say anything, didn't give any interferee.
Speaker 3: She switched around with an apperl sprits in hand and
Speaker 3: just refused to speak.
Speaker 2: Which is how I prefer to express my exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: So there definitely was some tension. And then of course
Speaker 2: we had uh the spitting incident, which was Harry Styles
Speaker 2: definitely looked like he spat on Chris.
Speaker 3: Pine and do you think that he did?
Speaker 1: Okay, there is no way that Harry Styles spits, I asked,
Speaker 1: if you look at that foot, it is the optical
Speaker 1: illusion of the century. He said, Remember, Jesse and I
Speaker 1: did a canceled episode on it, and we said, it's
Speaker 1: like ghosts.
Speaker 2: It's more fun to believe. It's more fun if you
Speaker 2: just believe that Harry Styles did spit on Chris Pine
Speaker 2: and then Harry Styles made joke about It's like, this
Speaker 2: isn't for you to joke about, this is for us
Speaker 2: to joke You shut up. But now four years later,
Speaker 2: Olivia Wilde has spilled everything she's did very quiet.
Speaker 1: But we're a good reason because she was hard.
Speaker 3: You know who's not happy that she's choosing now to
Speaker 3: speak up. Yes, she has a movie coming out, but
Speaker 3: also Jason Zadekas has new season of ted Lars and
Speaker 3: all of this is undercutting that every man, good guy
Speaker 3: image that he has worked so hard to present in
Speaker 3: ted Larso wow, I don't think so well.
Speaker 2: Olivia Wilde makes some very interesting points about the conversation
Speaker 2: around her relationship with Harry Styles at the time. They
Speaker 2: went out for for a few years and then broke up.
Speaker 2: But this is what she says about the age gap.
Speaker 3: It's almost like the happiness made them mad.
Speaker 2: Like I would like go to shows and dance and
Speaker 2: people were like, oh, oh good gee, You're like, dare
Speaker 2: you dance?
Speaker 4: I think that it's we police women's morality to such
Speaker 4: a different degree than men that in especially mothers, the
Speaker 4: fact that you were kids, you're fuck oh yeah. So
Speaker 4: I think that there is a expectation, especially as a mother,
Speaker 4: that when you go through that public separation with the
Speaker 4: kids involved, you are supposed to be self sacrificing and
Speaker 4: you need to be sexless.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, preach. Every word of that is true.
Speaker 3: But that was mostly call her daddy speaking.
Speaker 2: Yes, she was kind of putting it more into words
Speaker 2: because Alex Cooper asked Olivia Wilde why she thought there
Speaker 2: was so much anger about her relationship with Harry Styles,
Speaker 2: and Olivia Wilde said, it's sort of the parasocial relationship
Speaker 2: people have with him. But she also was like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, Like why do you think? And so I
Speaker 2: thought Cooper gave a really interesting analysis of that, Amelia,
Speaker 2: Why did we have such a visceral reaction to a
Speaker 2: relationship with a ten year age girl. I think Harry
Speaker 2: Styles is in his late twenties.
Speaker 1: He was twenty six, she was thirty six.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 3: Just the mother thing. I think age gap relationships post
Speaker 3: Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky in the late nineties, I
Speaker 3: think we have developed this weird, very prudish morality around
Speaker 3: age gap relationships whether they be between an older man
Speaker 3: and a younger woman, or a younger woman, or an
Speaker 3: older woman and a younger man. And the proof I
Speaker 3: have of this is that there's this new show on
Speaker 3: Disney Plus called Alice and Steve. It is a perfect,
Speaker 3: one of those like perfect little capsules of a show
Speaker 3: that only the Brits can do. It's only six episodes,
Speaker 3: and it's six perfect little half hour episodes, and it's
Speaker 3: about Jermaine from Flight of the Concords, who is embarking
Speaker 3: on a relationship with a twenty six year old woman
Speaker 3: who is.
Speaker 1: The daughter of his best friend.
Speaker 2: His friend, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: I'll get to that. I think it's important on its
Speaker 3: so but yeah, and it's like sort of like it's
Speaker 3: been built as like a wrong colm, which I hadn't
Speaker 3: heard that phrase before, but it's very true for this show.
Speaker 3: It's like that kind of awkward, cringey humor that you
Speaker 3: can't look away from. I just loved it. I ate
Speaker 3: it up over the course of like forty eight hours.
Speaker 3: But then I you know how you watch a show
Speaker 3: and then you want to see what the reviewers think.
Speaker 3: So I saw googling around and the first thing that
Speaker 3: comes up is the Guardians review, and I'm sorry, but
Speaker 3: to me, it encapsulated our inability as a society to
Speaker 3: talk properly or rationally about this topic. It was a
Speaker 3: review written by Lucy Mangan, who is a great TV reviewer.
Speaker 3: I love her reviews generally, but she kind of just
Speaker 3: spins out about this premise, and she writes that the
Speaker 3: poor man we are led to understand is not a predator.
Speaker 3: He's just a bit weak and lonely, and never asks
Speaker 3: the question of whether inexperienced people are ever in command
Speaker 3: of a situation involving experienced people of any kind. So basically,
Speaker 3: as a society, we seem to have decided that inherently,
Speaker 3: if you have an age gap, regardless of whether it's
Speaker 3: a man, again, regardless of which gender is in which
Speaker 3: power position, it can never be a relationship that's anything
Speaker 3: other than wrong or perverted. And I just think that
Speaker 3: that's insane. Twenty six is a full grown adult who
Speaker 3: is perfectly capable of consenting to this relationship. Is it
Speaker 3: a good relationship? No? Are they compatible? Not in the
Speaker 3: slightest But the.
Speaker 1: Best friends started dating your daughter? Yes, Well, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the premise of the show.
Speaker 3: But to say that the concept in itself of someone
Speaker 3: being more experienced than someone means that there is an
Speaker 3: inherent and wrong power dynamic. I just think is like
Speaker 3: a very strange new morality emerging.
Speaker 1: I I think we've always been totally fine with age
Speaker 1: gap relationships when it's men and women. For a long time,
Speaker 1: older men younger women. That was the norm and every
Speaker 1: movie you've ever seen when you think about it, right,
Speaker 1: I think it's only recently post Me Too, we've started
Speaker 1: pushing back on them with any actual veracity.
Speaker 2: Like well, but the fact that Jason Sudeikis was dating
Speaker 2: somebody who was younger.
Speaker 1: And no one even meaned it.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that. That's the first I had heard
Speaker 2: when when Olivia Wilde said it in the Call a
Speaker 2: Daddy interview.
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of the kind of way
Speaker 1: you feel about age gut relationships, Like many things in life,
Speaker 1: it's often about your life stage and where you're at,
Speaker 1: because I think that I don't think that generally we
Speaker 1: think that age gat relationships full stop are wrong, But
Speaker 1: you can see the power dynamics so much more clearly
Speaker 1: from later in your life.
Speaker 3: But I want to keep the conversation around a twenty
Speaker 3: six year old is not apparently capable of deciding that
Speaker 3: she wants to have a fling with this guy as
Speaker 3: much older than her. And the thing is that all
Speaker 3: relationships have power differentials, like no one enters into a
Speaker 3: relationship entirely equal on every footing. For instance, I'm a
Speaker 3: very very bad driver because I learned in my thirties.
Speaker 3: I'm very inexperienced when it comes to driving. I'm married
Speaker 3: to someone who's a great driver, who's been driving like
Speaker 3: a normal person since his teens. That's okay. There's different
Speaker 3: power dynamics and relationships.
Speaker 1: Oh, I agree, once you're an adult, do what you
Speaker 1: want to do. But I think that as older women
Speaker 1: in particular often get a very cynical about the men
Speaker 1: in their lives who, strangely their girlfriends are always twenty five.
Speaker 1: It's like no one is suggesting that that twenty five
Speaker 1: year old doesn't have agency. It's more it says something
Speaker 1: about you if you're a man in your fifties and
Speaker 1: you only date twenty five year olds. I mean, look
Speaker 1: at how we all laugh at Leonardo DiCaprio, right, And
Speaker 1: so I think I do think it's true that Olivia Wilde,
Speaker 1: when you listen to this interview and they go through
Speaker 1: this crazy year, we burnt that woman.
Speaker 2: At the stage the public shame.
Speaker 1: It is one hundred percent true. She was dating our
Speaker 1: favorite internet son. You know, she was older than him.
Speaker 1: What a predator. She had young children. She makes a
Speaker 1: point that not long after the divorce, it was thanks
Speaker 1: and all the custody arrangements were fine, and it was
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving and she was home with the kids and Sedukis
Speaker 1: was in Costa Rica with his young girlfriend, and she
Speaker 1: said that was fine. I knew he was there. Everybody
Speaker 1: but the press had the pictures of him and his
Speaker 1: young girlfriend on the beach, and they were all like,
Speaker 1: how lovely for him, isn't that great? I would like
Speaker 1: to see what they would have said about me if
Speaker 1: it was a national holiday and I was not with
Speaker 1: my children frolicking on a beach with Harry Styles. I
Speaker 1: think we know what they would have not.
Speaker 3: And I agree with that she was burned at the stage.
Speaker 3: I guess I'm just saying that I think you're right
Speaker 3: that post me too. We're casting that judgment more on
Speaker 3: men than we're used to, and maybe that's a good thing,
Speaker 3: but I'm just observing that that's changed since say the nineties,
Speaker 3: when feminists everywhere stuck up for Bill Clinton because they
Speaker 3: said that Monica Lewinsky was perfectly capable of consenting as
Speaker 3: an intern to engaging in sexual acts with the president.
Speaker 2: I think what's interesting about the Olivia Wilde story is
Speaker 2: that now with the benefit of hindsight and kind of
Speaker 2: the sting coming out of whatever, we were so furious
Speaker 2: about at the time, which feels so ridiculous. Do you
Speaker 2: think it was I think we were angry. We were
Speaker 2: angry that she hired Harry Styles and that she they
Speaker 2: were spending a lot of time together in the trailer, Amelia,
Speaker 2: and that.
Speaker 3: Was probably making Florence uncomfortable. Like I get Florence's side
Speaker 3: in this. I think in a workplace dynamic, that's not easy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think we were mad about that. We
Speaker 2: were mad, but we I think we were mad that
Speaker 2: he's just an innocent little boy and this woman who's
Speaker 2: a grown up, divorced woman. Yeah, divorced woman. Remember the
Speaker 2: story about about the salad He brought salad dressing Styles
Speaker 2: a salad over to her house. This came from the
Speaker 2: nanny brought a salad over to her house, and Jason
Speaker 2: Sadaikis was so sad about it that he like laid
Speaker 2: in front of the car or something to like stop her.
Speaker 1: It was a messy split. It was a really really
Speaker 1: amating and then the salad dressing recipe went viral. It
Speaker 1: was the one from Harper Nora Refron's one from Hartburn.
Speaker 1: This is a deep cut. But then I think we
Speaker 1: made that salad dressing, maybe brought it into a podcast,
Speaker 1: like the world was obsessed with this. I think it
Speaker 1: was also that she it didn't follow the split the
Speaker 1: trope that we like, which is like man leaves woman
Speaker 1: woman very sad. Yes, this was like whatever happened between them,
Speaker 1: she did not seem sad. She seemed like she was
Speaker 1: living a great life. She was releasing a movie, she
Speaker 1: was dating a hot young man. She was you know,
Speaker 1: at parties, at concerts, dancing, as she says, And we
Speaker 1: were like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is not
Speaker 1: how this is supposed to go.
Speaker 3: That's true.
Speaker 2: And I think we also looked at Jason Sadeikis and
Speaker 2: we were like, how dare you do that? To ted Lers,
Speaker 2: which was.
Speaker 3: There was a big parasocial thing about yeah, like Jason
Speaker 3: today because is tedlar so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in hindsight that was ridiculous because he's not.
Speaker 1: That's just a character to your point about it's more
Speaker 1: fun to believe the spit. Yeah, Alex Cooper in that
Speaker 1: Call Her Daddy interview does say did Jason Sedukis serve
Speaker 1: you those papers on stage? On purpose? And Olivia Wilde says,
Speaker 1: I have to believe that he did not. He says
Speaker 1: he didn't. He's very upset about it, and I have
Speaker 1: to believe him, which isn't quite the same as saying
Speaker 1: I believe him.
Speaker 3: No. I read some interpretation that said she's very clearly
Speaker 3: saying that he knew. Is that how you understood that? Yes?
Speaker 1: But as she says, I have to believe that he
Speaker 1: didn't because I'm parenting kids with him, and everyone who's
Speaker 1: ever been through a messy split nose and you've got
Speaker 1: kids involved, at some point you just have to get
Speaker 1: on with it, right. But that is a pretty unforgivable
Speaker 1: thing to do if he did do it.
Speaker 3: I don't think that they're wishing each other happy birthday
Speaker 3: on Instagram.
Speaker 1: No. After break, the shit Skirt is looking for a
Speaker 1: new owner.
Speaker 3: Who doesn't want a free and easy way to improve
Speaker 3: their life. I know I sound like a telecommercial, but
Speaker 3: hear me out this. This is actually well on my mind.
Speaker 3: There's an artist called Tom Sacks, and he has a
Speaker 3: very simple rule that I cannot stop thinking about since
Speaker 3: I learned about it last week. Before you touch your
Speaker 3: phone in the morning, you have to do or make
Speaker 3: something yourself. He calls it output before input or OBI.
Speaker 3: And weirdly, he's developed an up with Nike around this concept,
Speaker 3: which sort of seems to undercut the whole point. But
Speaker 3: we're setting that aside. We're just going to focus on
Speaker 3: the idea of putting something out in the world before
Speaker 3: you start taking in the shit skirt and all the
Speaker 3: other terrible news. And apparently this helps you because you
Speaker 3: become more creative, you become more focused. It's especially good
Speaker 3: to do on days and you have a lot of
Speaker 3: stuff going on. And you can also try it in
Speaker 3: the evening before bed, because apparently it really helps you
Speaker 3: to remember your dreams, what.
Speaker 1: Sort of things, what sort of things should I be doing?
Speaker 3: Okay, here are some examples that Tom gave draw sing
Speaker 3: which I wake up seeing if you were sleeping with
Speaker 3: someone next to you potentially would annoy them a one
Speaker 3: minute plank, which I kind of was my favorite because
Speaker 3: it sort of seems the most tangible and least insane
Speaker 3: thing to do. Dancing little macarina or this is my favorite.
Speaker 3: Touch clay. Just get out some clay, make a little
Speaker 3: pinch pot. You're good to go. Which one are you
Speaker 3: going to do? Holly dancing?
Speaker 1: For sure? This morning I got up at five because
Speaker 1: it's Monday, I come to the city I got. I
Speaker 1: had to get up at five to catch my train.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine if I'd have gotten up at five
Speaker 1: just put some tunes on, just like I had a
Speaker 1: big party in my bedroom and then just for one minute,
Speaker 1: and the dog would have been like, sorry, just out
Speaker 1: putting before I put back. So let's give that a
Speaker 1: go next week.
Speaker 3: Are you going to just keep a little bit of
Speaker 3: clay by your bed? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Really get my creativity out first thing. I have seen
Speaker 2: so many versions of this that I guess because we're
Speaker 2: living in an age where we're getting an unprecedented amount
Speaker 2: of input, Like we're just we're constantly reading, watching things,
Speaker 2: just constant stimulus that we should be that there needs
Speaker 2: to be an overall balance as well that it's like
Speaker 2: you should be producing more than you in jest, But
Speaker 2: how about when you're tired or lazy or can't be fucked?
Speaker 2: I nobody wants to see what I do with Clay.
Speaker 2: No one wants No one wants me to sing. It's
Speaker 2: just I'd like, would it make my life better?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 3: But so would me also journal. That's some other idea. Look,
Speaker 3: I should be clear. I think I learned about this
Speaker 3: last Thursday. And have I done it even once? No,
Speaker 3: I haven't, but it's a dream.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to think if I've done it accidentally.
Speaker 3: No. I feel like people who have cats sometimes can
Speaker 3: do this because as a former cat owner myself and
Speaker 3: I love cats, as I hope out louders. No, I
Speaker 3: know in this day and age, it's kind of stigmatized
Speaker 3: to say you love cats. Anyway, that's another topic.
Speaker 1: She's really good out on a limb.
Speaker 3: A cat often vombits first thing. That's their version of
Speaker 3: output before input. Just throwing that out there as well.
Speaker 1: I often create a cup of tea first thing.
Speaker 3: In the morning.
Speaker 1: Oh that's what I did.
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there go that works.
Speaker 3: There you go to out louders, maybe you can show
Speaker 3: your output before imput, Yeah, before input, I'd love to
Speaker 3: know what people do.
Speaker 2: Actually, that would be really helpful.
Speaker 5: Moments like this don't come around often. In fact, in
Speaker 5: more than forty years of reporting politics, I don't remember
Speaker 5: anything remotely like what is happening right now. Right now,
Speaker 5: I can't say to you with any confidence who will
Speaker 5: be the Prime Minister of the UK in a fortnight,
Speaker 5: as that general election is coming very soon.
Speaker 3: You're joking, Not another.
Speaker 1: One, another one, yes, another one, friends, It's pretty likely
Speaker 1: that by the UK morning so hour tonight, the UK
Speaker 1: will have a new prime minister, or at least a
Speaker 1: new prime minister in waiting.
Speaker 3: Output before yes.
Speaker 1: A minute, that Kirstahamer wakes up on Monday morning, hopefully,
Speaker 1: well not hopefully, probably his first output will be to
Speaker 1: sign a resignation letter. Why do we care? Well, for
Speaker 1: two reasons. Who gets to wear the shitskirt of post
Speaker 1: Brexit Britain is a bit of a running scene on
Speaker 1: out Loud. Several years ago we did a whole analogy
Speaker 1: about how trying to clean up that mess was like
Speaker 1: somebody trying to get shit off the skirt and who
Speaker 1: got it passed around? And that sort of became a
Speaker 1: phrase for us to use when we know that something bad,
Speaker 1: somebody's about to get handled something bad. They're about to
Speaker 1: be putting the shit skirt on.
Speaker 2: Who had it for kind of the longest. I feel
Speaker 2: like Theresa May had.
Speaker 1: The reason May was the original shit skirt where Liz
Speaker 1: Trust wore it for a very short amount of time.
Speaker 1: Boris Johnson had it obviously for a while there. It's
Speaker 1: been passed around quite a lot. In fact, if Keir
Speaker 1: Starmer gets rumbled, is that the word I'm looking for,
Speaker 1: tumbled rolled, whatever we want to say, tray he I
Speaker 1: think he'll be the sixth British Prime minister in ten years,
Speaker 1: so then mearly as good as Australia were there for
Speaker 1: a while at getting rid of them. The other reason
Speaker 1: why we care is because what is rattling conventional politics
Speaker 1: in the UK is kind of eerily familiar to some
Speaker 1: of the things that are going on here, and also
Speaker 1: because it is batshit crazy, as anyone who has seen
Speaker 1: the pictures over the weekend of probably the next UK
Speaker 1: Prime minister standing next to a bin and a fox
Speaker 1: on a stage. Well, no, we'll get to that. I'm
Speaker 1: going to try and explain as quickly as I can.
Speaker 1: What has happened. The Prime Minister of the UK is
Speaker 1: a man called Kia Starma Serkis Starmer. He used to
Speaker 1: be a human rights lawyer. He used to be incredibly
Speaker 1: well respected.
Speaker 3: Top human rights lawyer. As Bridget Jones would.
Speaker 1: Say, indeed, he's got very he's actually got quite darcy vibes,
Speaker 1: except not as handsome, but like as in.
Speaker 3: If Colin First was Prime minister, no Onel would be
Speaker 3: rolling handsome.
Speaker 1: But he has that sort of buttoned up thing going
Speaker 1: on that people outside the UK think that men from
Speaker 1: the UK are like that, when in fact they're all
Speaker 1: kind of drunken shouting at football games. But anyway, we'll
Speaker 1: get back to that. He's very unpopular. I think he's popular.
Speaker 1: He's popularity at the minute stands on minus fifty seven percent.
Speaker 3: Wow, so that means like more than one hundred percent
Speaker 3: of people are just like nah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And the thing about that is two years ago, a
Speaker 1: bit less than two years ago, he and his Labour
Speaker 1: Party won the general election in a landslide, like a
Speaker 1: very very decisive landslide, so they held a really significant majority.
Speaker 1: Right Anyway, he's very unpopular now because Britain has all
Speaker 1: kinds of problems and he is generally seen as being
Speaker 1: ineffectual in dealing with them. Enter the most popular man
Speaker 1: in British politics. He is the mayor of my hometown.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Andy Burnham Manchester mayor aka King of the
Speaker 1: North right, right, So he The thing that's interesting about
Speaker 1: him is he's run as a scrappy insurgeon, but actually
Speaker 1: he's only ever been a politician. He's one of those.
Speaker 1: But he has a very personable aspect. Right. So if
Speaker 1: Keir Starmer is buttoned up and polite, Andy Burnham never
Speaker 1: wears a tie, can talk to real human beings in
Speaker 1: the grand character of No, he's not because he's not
Speaker 1: a badly. He's not a badie.
Speaker 2: He's what's the Australian equivalent, vibe wise, shit, that's tough
Speaker 2: Bob Catter.
Speaker 1: Who's a Titian in Australia who can talk to real
Speaker 1: human beings without appearing really awkward. Yeah, we'll come back
Speaker 1: to that. Yeah. So he's the mayor of Manchester and
Speaker 1: very very popular labor person and lots of people have
Speaker 1: said he's who should be challenging Kirs Starmer for the
Speaker 1: election because people like Andy Burnham, and they don't like Kirstarmer.
Speaker 1: But there was a little problem, and that's that Andy Burnham,
Speaker 1: as the mayor of Manchester isn't an MP. He's not
Speaker 1: a member of parliament. He can't go into parliament, is.
Speaker 3: He like in an American analogy Zora and Mandani the
Speaker 3: mayor of New York like a mayor who everyone loves.
Speaker 1: And he's done great things for Manchester, right, I mean
Speaker 1: not everybody thinks that, obviously, but he's fixed He's shown
Speaker 1: that he can fix some difficult problems. He's brought back
Speaker 1: the buses into public ownership and they actually work and
Speaker 1: run on time. He's encouraged development of the city without
Speaker 1: selling everything off. Like he's seen as a good dude,
Speaker 1: right generally speaking, not by everybody of course. Anyway, problem
Speaker 1: was he isn't a member of parliament, so we can't
Speaker 1: challenge Kirstamma not so much of a problem. We just
Speaker 1: tap another politician on the shoulder and say quit so
Speaker 1: that I can run in your seat, therefore entering politics.
Speaker 1: Coming back to challenge.
Speaker 3: So they just engineered a biologic They just completely engineered
Speaker 3: a bio Who was it who got the tap on
Speaker 3: the shoulder. Were they just publicly No, he.
Speaker 1: Was fine because I think he knew that the greater
Speaker 1: good was being.
Speaker 3: Served stiff up on it.
Speaker 1: But who knows what will happen after if things fall apart,
Speaker 1: which they probably will anyway. Another key piece to this
Speaker 1: is they had to choose an area of the northwest
Speaker 1: of Manchester. It's in the Greater Manchester. The area they
Speaker 1: chose that was having a bit of a problem with
Speaker 1: the far right. So this will sound familiar to many.
Speaker 1: But the insurgent party in Britain at the minute, and
Speaker 1: many Poles say the preferred PM is actually the party
Speaker 1: called Reform, run by Nigel Farage. He was the guy
Speaker 1: who really wanted Brexit and then when it happened, fucked
Speaker 1: off to it.
Speaker 3: It's easy to remember because the name Nigel Farage sounds
Speaker 3: like the villain in a nineteen eighties.
Speaker 1: Children's movie, and many people they would think that was apt.
Speaker 1: But also he's charismatic and controversial, ring any bells. He
Speaker 1: is funded by a particularly controversial billionaire. The Reformer picking
Speaker 1: up lots of defectors from the traditional Conservative Party ring
Speaker 1: any bells, and a lot of the candidates who stand
Speaker 1: for Reform wouldn't really withstand a bit of a deep
Speaker 1: dive on their Twitter accounts, do you know what I'm saying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's often quite a bit of problematic stuff there. So
Speaker 1: Burnham had to prove the mayor of Manchester had to
Speaker 1: prove that he could stand up to a reform voting
Speaker 1: populace and win, because that's what the government of Britain
Speaker 1: needs to do. And so Makefield, which is the place
Speaker 1: that he stood in the recent local elections, they voted reform,
Speaker 1: so very much reform leaning place, and Andy decided to
Speaker 1: go in there and not sort of scrap with all
Speaker 1: the angry, anger making issues that reform were going in on,
Speaker 1: but play happy warrior and sort of also disassociated himself
Speaker 1: a bit from the labor parties. It was all vote Andy,
Speaker 1: believe in Andy, and he smashed it. He won with
Speaker 1: a big majority. The far right was split into two parties,
Speaker 1: but even if you added them together, they came nowhere
Speaker 1: near him. The Conservative Party, so our version of the
Speaker 1: UK version of Liberals didn't even really poll They got
Speaker 1: like two percent, which shows also what's going on there.
Speaker 3: Who had this seat before reform was on the ascendencied
Speaker 3: labor labor Okay.
Speaker 1: So it's a labor it's traditionally a labor seat, but
Speaker 1: one of the kind of seats that is falling from
Speaker 1: traditional parties to the minor parties, which is also something
Speaker 1: that's happening here. Is this the seat where the Reform
Speaker 1: guy had a tweet that said I'm sorry, I'm sexist. Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: exact seat. Yeah, the reform guy was campaigning in England
Speaker 1: shird a lot, which is a whole other issue where
Speaker 1: lots of English people like I want my flag back please,
Speaker 1: but and he it was proved to be a bit problematic,
Speaker 1: but that was generally considered a little bit like some
Speaker 1: of the one nation MPs here like that's just what
Speaker 1: knock about guys do. So he did get a bit
Speaker 1: of that. Andy Burnham wipe the floor with him. So
Speaker 1: now he can re enter politics and with the Bin
Speaker 1: and the Fox on his side, he can march down
Speaker 1: to London and get rid of kir Starmer. So it's
Speaker 1: basically an engineered from within the party way to topple
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister.
Speaker 3: Right. One detail in this which you know, it's interesting
Speaker 3: to look at comparisons with other countries and Australia But
Speaker 3: one contrast I'm seeing here potentially, which is also interesting
Speaker 3: to look at, I think, is that this was a
Speaker 3: labor stronghold that became a reform stronghold. And what we
Speaker 3: are seeing in Australia so far as yes, people who
Speaker 3: have voted for all the for both major parties as
Speaker 3: well as even potentially the Greens and the Teals are
Speaker 3: deffecting to one nation. That's what they're telling polsters. But
Speaker 3: at the moment it does seem like it's more something
Speaker 3: that is being that it's support from the Liberal Party
Speaker 3: that is bleeding to one nation. Do you know why
Speaker 3: in the UK it's more of it across the board.
Speaker 1: Thing my view is they are further down the line
Speaker 1: from where we are now. Obviously there's loads of differences
Speaker 1: between these two countries. UK population is much bigger, much
Speaker 1: more diverse, lots of I mean, there's a lot of difference.
Speaker 1: It's much more urbanized, although well you know, many more cities.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, when reform first came up in Britain,
Speaker 1: they were taking from the right. They were like seen
Speaker 1: as a Conservative party alternative.
Speaker 3: And this is pre Brexit we're talking right now, No,
Speaker 3: this is post.
Speaker 1: And then what's happened is that vote has begun to
Speaker 1: chip away at everybody. Right, so I think that and
Speaker 1: of course this also I'm not making a super neat comparison,
Speaker 1: but because again the places are so different, but there
Speaker 1: is a firm argument that what is happening in Britain,
Speaker 1: they're just further down the line that we are, you know,
Speaker 1: traveling towards the polls. Here one nations on the rise,
Speaker 1: particularly outside the metropolitan Area's charismatic leader, well funded by
Speaker 1: a private sector. There's a lot of similarities. And so
Speaker 1: they say that Albow is looking at Burnham and going
Speaker 1: I want to be a happy Warrior too, because that's
Speaker 1: obviously the way to fend this off problem is happy
Speaker 1: Warrior goes down to Westminster today. He says to Sir Kia,
Speaker 1: I want your job please, and Sir Kia so far
Speaker 1: I said no, you're not having it. In fact, he
Speaker 1: even tried to stop Andy from standing the first time around.
Speaker 1: He did block him and he fell to the Greens.
Speaker 2: He says, look at the polls, I'm really popular, and
Speaker 2: everyone says, sir, your minus fifty seven percent.
Speaker 1: It's not a plus fifty seven. So Kirstarmer has been
Speaker 1: like trying to push Andy Burnham away for ages. But
Speaker 1: now the King of the Nord's coming down and now
Speaker 1: all the reporting as we're recording today say that Keir
Speaker 1: Starmer has been convinced it's inevitable.
Speaker 3: Pass Andy played that, like, what does he say? Does
Speaker 3: he say I want to be prime minister?
Speaker 1: He says it's time for a change.
Speaker 3: He says change.
Speaker 1: He says it's time for a change. And interestingly, you know,
Speaker 1: as I said, he's it's sort of personality politics too,
Speaker 1: which we know from America and many other places, is
Speaker 1: a trend that we can't seem to push back. Although
Speaker 1: we were talking last week about how maybe it's fading
Speaker 1: with that Obama guy that we don't know anything about.
Speaker 1: This is very much personality politics. A lot of people
Speaker 1: who voted for Andy Burnham in this election would not
Speaker 1: have voted voted for another labor candidate. They like him
Speaker 1: and that's a real challenge for politicians because a lot
Speaker 1: of them, no offense politicians are not that likable.
Speaker 2: Do we think that that the personality politics is what's
Speaker 2: happening with one nation and with reform in the UK,
Speaker 2: because reform similar to one nation, they have a very few.
Speaker 2: There are only very few members of that party. There's
Speaker 2: like eight us.
Speaker 1: Well, there are an increasing number at all times because
Speaker 1: in that particularly on the local level, but on the
Speaker 1: on the national level at the moment there aren't very many. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but Poles are pointing towards the sweep. The problem. The
Speaker 1: issue is for that, with the exception of some of
Speaker 1: the people who have deferred from other parties, the promer
Speaker 1: conservatives a bit like how here Nats like Barnabie Joyce
Speaker 1: have joined one nation. There's a vast amount of inexperiperience there,
Speaker 1: which is like a strength and a weakness, because you
Speaker 1: can be I'm not one of these career politician idiots.
Speaker 1: I'm an ordinary person and I can talk like ordinary people.
Speaker 1: But then there's also like a but do you understand
Speaker 1: how things work? And they're like not really.
Speaker 3: And Andy is a career politician, really he is.
Speaker 1: But he somehow has managed to like shake that off.
Speaker 3: That's so interesting.
Speaker 1: So his critics will say he's been he's been part
Speaker 1: of a government before, he's been around for ages. He
Speaker 1: is one of them. But he has sort of convincingly
Speaker 1: made a case that no, I'm different, I'm changed I'm
Speaker 1: the insurgent. What will be interesting about the shit skirt?
Speaker 1: Though Andy Burnham famously never wears a suit, he never
Speaker 1: wears a tie. He is a gen X dude, he's
Speaker 1: fifty six. His campaign ads were full of oasis like
Speaker 1: he likes to be like brick CP pop dude.
Speaker 3: He wear a ways to say like yes you can
Speaker 3: have our music and.
Speaker 1: Albo all the big Manchester bands and he wore so
Speaker 1: he always wears a T shirt and like a bomber jacket.
Speaker 1: You know how politicians have like a uniform and when
Speaker 1: down Andrews only ever worn north face. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: the thing is it's still in the UK. Now, if
Speaker 1: you're going to go into Westminster, you have to wear
Speaker 1: a shirt, a jacket and a tie. And Andy Burnham
Speaker 1: don't do that. So maybe the ships he's going to
Speaker 1: wear the ship skirt and a shirt and tie to
Speaker 1: just keep reinforcing his man at the people vibe.
Speaker 2: That did get some conservative politicians up in arms. Wearing
Speaker 2: a skirt get them very very up.
Speaker 1: It would be very King of the North, like all
Speaker 1: the way from Scotland kind of a wearing kilt. Anyway,
Speaker 1: that's what's happening.
Speaker 3: I just say here, just get some clay. I think
Speaker 3: play today Monday morning clay. Then you can handle things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is it is fascinating that this wave
Speaker 2: because the big win for labor in the UK that
Speaker 2: was around about the same time that Australia had a
Speaker 2: labor win and Canada there was there was like a
Speaker 2: wave of it, and it seems like there is this
Speaker 2: kind of turning point now and it's interesting that it
Speaker 2: is that it mirrors in all different parts of the
Speaker 2: world what the mood is. I'll be very, very interested
Speaker 2: to see what happens with this and what our labor
Speaker 2: party learns from it.
Speaker 1: Talking about what Alba might take from this, Claire is
Speaker 1: that one of the reasons why people have turned on
Speaker 1: Starmer after that big win is that he's seen as
Speaker 1: being nice but ineffectual and of flip flopping changing his
Speaker 1: mind on big policies. And again, does that sound a
Speaker 1: little bit familiar about how people are feeling about Albo.
Speaker 3: After the break, there is chaos at King's Court because
Speaker 3: Harry and Megs are coming to town. Harry and Megs
Speaker 3: are rolling out the suitcases in Montecito because they are
Speaker 3: preparing for a trip to the UK with Archie and
Speaker 3: Lily in Toe and it is happening next month, which
Speaker 3: I hate to tell you all, is coming up remarkably soon.
Speaker 3: It's almost July. Where is chaos at court about how
Speaker 3: to deal with this visit? Absolute chaos. On the one hand,
Speaker 3: you've got two camps. On the one hand, you've got
Speaker 3: King Charles and what you might call the Doves. These
Speaker 3: are the people who say, let's just get back to normal.
Speaker 3: Charles wants to give Harry and Meggs a house to
Speaker 3: stay in while they're in the UK. He has offered
Speaker 3: them security. He has offered them, in fact, a security envelope,
Speaker 3: as some of the reporting goes, which sounds really nice.
Speaker 3: And then in the other camp you've got the Hawks.
Speaker 3: This is led by William. They see the trip as pernicious,
Speaker 3: they see it as emotional blackmail. And it must be
Speaker 3: said they are more in touch with public opinion that camp,
Speaker 3: because for the most part of the UK, the only
Speaker 3: people less popular than Kirstarma are Harry and Megs. So
Speaker 3: here is the problem. Charles has offered the residents and
Speaker 3: the security to Harry and Megs, and that is why
Speaker 3: they are bringing the kids. Because previously Harry said he
Speaker 3: would never bring the kids to the UK unless he
Speaker 3: was given security, So the security and the residents are happy.
Speaker 3: So in that sense, it seems like Charles and the
Speaker 3: Doves have won. But Charles is clearly still profoundly unsure
Speaker 3: about how he wants to play this visit, because there
Speaker 3: is very mixed reporting on whether he will actually even
Speaker 3: meet with Harry and the family when they're in the UK.
Speaker 3: And the Hawks meanwhile a warning that by offering Harry
Speaker 3: and Meghan, the residents and the security, they are setting
Speaker 3: a very dangerous precedent for the rest of Charles's reign. Holly,
Speaker 3: who is going to win out? And do you think
Speaker 3: that Charles could really not meet with Harry and Meghan
Speaker 3: after he's given them a residence for their trip.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I think Charles is one hundred percent going to meet
Speaker 1: with Harry and Meghan, because I think that's what all
Speaker 1: of this is about. I thought this Hawks and Doves
Speaker 1: thing was really interesting because I reckon in all of
Speaker 1: our families, we'd have hawks and doves. There are people
Speaker 1: who are like, let bygones be bygones, let's forgive and
Speaker 1: forget and move on. And there are people who are like,
Speaker 1: never forget.
Speaker 3: And in friendship groups, dare I say it right?
Speaker 1: And I think that that's really relatable in lots of ways.
Speaker 1: But I think that while the king is still the king,
Speaker 1: so while Charles is still ultimately the power, his say
Speaker 1: goes right. So I know William's pissed off, and I
Speaker 1: know William's getting a lot of influence because everybody knows
Speaker 1: that he's going to be king soonish, But right now
Speaker 1: it's the dad who gets to say, boys, this is
Speaker 1: what we're doing. And what we're doing is we're going
Speaker 1: to let them come. We're going to make sure they're safe.
Speaker 1: Imagine if they came and something happened. Imagine. So it's
Speaker 1: the sensible choice. He So we let them come. We
Speaker 1: don't celebrate them. We don't like bring them out on
Speaker 1: the balcony and have you know, parades in the street
Speaker 1: or anything, but we let them come and do their stuff.
Speaker 1: Harry allegedly is coming for an Invictus one year out countdown,
Speaker 1: and we make sure allegedly apart from the you know
Speaker 1: fact that he wants to come and stick it to
Speaker 1: his brother and we'll get on with it and you
Speaker 1: don't have to play now, you don't have to come
Speaker 1: to tea William, but they're coming. I think that's a
Speaker 1: sensible choice.
Speaker 2: In a way. It's interesting timing because Charles doesn't really
Speaker 2: have that much to lose, like William's gonna take over.
Speaker 2: It won't be that long. People in terms of public opinion,
Speaker 2: people quite like William. So he's allowed to have his
Speaker 2: line in the sand about Harry, which is quite clever
Speaker 2: again for his own popularity, because it mirrors what the
Speaker 2: British public think.
Speaker 3: But I don't.
Speaker 2: I this makes me a little bit more sympathetic to
Speaker 2: Charles that he even though it is not what people
Speaker 2: in his camp necessarily want, it is not what the
Speaker 2: public want. I kind of like it. And the fact
Speaker 2: that he wants to.
Speaker 1: See his grandkids he does. It's the most relatable thing
Speaker 1: that's ever happened. Like he wants to see his grandkids.
Speaker 1: He famously said, it's even in Harry's books, So even
Speaker 1: in Harry's unsympathetic telling that when Harry and William were
Speaker 1: really fighting hard, he was like, boys, please don't make
Speaker 1: my final years a misery, and they are doing that.
Speaker 3: But the thing is, I really think that there's a
Speaker 3: big schism emerging between William and Charles. And the reason
Speaker 3: I said that is because you said it may not
Speaker 3: be that long. But by all accounts Charles's counts, the
Speaker 3: treatment has been successful to the extent that we can
Speaker 3: say that it's been successful. He's looking at potentially another
Speaker 3: fifteen years. There are some longevity genes in this family. Meanwhile,
Speaker 3: William has been briefing constantly along the lines of when
Speaker 3: I am king, which is very offensive to Charles, because
Speaker 3: you know who sat by silently through his mother's historically
Speaker 3: long ragn never briefing of what he would do when
Speaker 3: he was king, was Charles. It's really rude of William
Speaker 3: to be doing this.
Speaker 2: People on William's side, like the Hawks are the ones
Speaker 2: who are speaking to the Daily Mail.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they keep staying in trouble. And Charles, meanwhile,
Speaker 3: is like, I've waited my whole life for this. Give
Speaker 3: me my potentially my up to fifteen years of actually
Speaker 3: being king without constantly undermining me in the press.
Speaker 1: I think that's fair enough. I think it's one of
Speaker 1: those things where you can kind of see all signs.
Speaker 1: Because William, i think rightfully, is the most hurt by
Speaker 1: what he sees as Harry's betrayal, and I think what
Speaker 1: he sees is Harry's betrayal is not so much the
Speaker 1: moving to Montecito as writing the book right up until
Speaker 1: he did that, that core text of spare that we
Speaker 1: returned too often.
Speaker 3: We should actually have it behind us.
Speaker 1: We really should. The only two people who knew what
Speaker 1: it was like to be them with those like, those
Speaker 1: two boys have the most singular unusual childhood, traumatic experiences,
Speaker 1: great experiences, privileged tragedy, all that stuff. The two of
Speaker 1: them were so bonded, and in Harry's book he kind
Speaker 1: of dismissed all that. He mocked William.
Speaker 3: Well and he attacks Kate, which which by all accounts
Speaker 3: William regarded as quite understandable.
Speaker 1: And he very much. He also kind of makes it
Speaker 1: out like they were never that tight anyway, him and William, Like.
Speaker 3: He makes fun of his baldness.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've all seen he Yeah, he's really mean
Speaker 1: about his brother. And I think that blowing the doors
Speaker 1: off that trust. I don't know how he come back
Speaker 1: from that, even as much as I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: the doves forgive and forget, that's a pretty hard thing
Speaker 1: to forgive and forget. But can't you just shut up
Speaker 1: let him come with his family and sit in your
Speaker 1: palace while he sits in his palace for a week.
Speaker 3: Maybe got to bou Moral for a bit, just get
Speaker 3: a bit away from it.
Speaker 1: All, or a nice, nice European beach bit of positana,
Speaker 1: go hang out exactly.
Speaker 2: Maybe the cousins want to play like I do. I
Speaker 2: have a lot of empathy for Charles, but I have
Speaker 2: seen it said that this is also his weakness as
Speaker 2: a leader, because it's what, well, what kind of kept
Speaker 2: Andrew around for so long? Was that Charles Nelson want
Speaker 2: to cut ties with members of his family. And the
Speaker 2: fact that William is a bit more pragmatic and a
Speaker 2: bit more able to see when maybe the royal family
Speaker 2: is being manipulated or used. That goes well with the public.
Speaker 3: Ok. Yeah, he's got the longevity of the monarchy itself
Speaker 3: to worry about, William.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some pretty funny commentary about Meghan and how
Speaker 2: now that she's lost her Netflix steal and all of that,
Speaker 2: she's kind of come scurrying back. But I do like
Speaker 2: to say that this is not about Meghan. I always
Speaker 2: hate that when these family dramas happen we somehow sent
Speaker 2: to the woman as though she is causing it. And
Speaker 2: I think the fact is there is so much complexity
Speaker 2: in this family. And I've also seen rumors that William
Speaker 2: growing up, that the rift between William and Charles has
Speaker 2: always a little bit being there.
Speaker 1: That is his mother's song.
Speaker 2: Yeah that he's like, no, you were cruel to my mum.
Speaker 3: William runs hot, doesn't he? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of there are recent photos where he looks
Speaker 2: really hot.
Speaker 1: He does seem to be going upset. He does seem
Speaker 1: to be going through a bit of a midlife maker.
Speaker 2: I know he looks really hot head a football game,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but he was like in a suit
Speaker 2: and he appears to have maybe had some regrowth of
Speaker 2: his hair, like he looks good, which can't be hurting.
Speaker 1: My hot tip for watching where the next showdown is
Speaker 1: going to be is the World Cup. Because they posted
Speaker 1: a little picture of Harry with the kids today for
Speaker 1: Father's Day and little Archie was wearing an England shirt,
Speaker 1: which is a very like considering Archie lives in the
Speaker 1: US and has nearly all his life. Is a very
Speaker 1: pointed reference. And the World Cup has been played in America,
Speaker 1: as we know different parts of America and different countries
Speaker 1: in America's but if England make it through, there's no
Speaker 1: way William's not going. He is obsessed with football and
Speaker 1: there is going to be a showdown in the stands.
Speaker 3: And we will be buying Oh Wow out louders.
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Speaker 3: Bye bye.
Speaker 2: MoMA Maer acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on
Speaker 2: which we've recorded this podcast.