WEBVTT - Dollars And Sense

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

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<v Speaker 1>the traditional owners of the land and waters this podcast

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<v Speaker 1>is recorded on. This episode contains strong language. Listener discretion

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<v Speaker 1>is advised. Do you believe in life after love? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>unlike Cher, Jessia did. She didn't believe in twin flames, soulmates,

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<v Speaker 1>any of that. Her marriage had fallen apart and she'd

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<v Speaker 1>been hurt, yes, But that didn't make her give up

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<v Speaker 1>on believing for a single moment.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like looking for my silver fox. I'm like anyone,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like I come across as a pretty strong

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<v Speaker 2>and independent. You know, I've got a really good, tough mask.

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<v Speaker 2>But I still wanted my prince. You know, we all

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<v Speaker 2>want our prince. And that's okay too, to want that.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't want my girls also to think that that's

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<v Speaker 2>not an opportunity to have love. You know, love comes

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<v Speaker 2>in many forms. And it comes once, twice, three times.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, no twin flames here. But yeah, so whilst

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<v Speaker 2>I wasn't looking for anyone, I certainly did think, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there's another one out there for me, for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>And boy, oh boy, did she find that silver fox.

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<v Speaker 1>An older guy, big solid build, and yes, silver hair.

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<v Speaker 1>And he had money.

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<v Speaker 2>Lots of it.

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<v Speaker 1>To find someone like this to love and who loves you,

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<v Speaker 1>what could possibly go wrong?

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<v Speaker 2>The first, I guess, red flag was... My brother, who

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<v Speaker 2>was like, why is he moving in there? Like, why

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't he buy a house? Why is this multimillionaire moving

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<v Speaker 2>his couch into your townhouse? Like, what is happening? What's

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<v Speaker 2>going on? And I was like, shut up. We are

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<v Speaker 2>in love. I'm singing for daddy, I love him, Taylor Swift,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, around the kitchen. And my daughter even was

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<v Speaker 2>with me. She was like, they're just haters, mum. Don't

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<v Speaker 2>worry about it. A year in, the, you know, shit

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<v Speaker 2>started to rise to the top. not the cream.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Georgia Love and this is Everyone Has an Ex.

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<v Speaker 1>Come with me as we dive into a collection of

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<v Speaker 1>unconventional stories about relationships past through the eyes and the

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<v Speaker 1>hearts of the very people who lived them. Jess was

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<v Speaker 1>46 when this story begins. She had plenty of her

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<v Speaker 1>own before this, of course. We just simply don't have

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<v Speaker 1>time for the more than a single podcast episode. But

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<v Speaker 1>the story that directly preceded the one we're here to

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<v Speaker 1>tell today was of the dreaded M &amp; D, marriage

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<v Speaker 1>and divorce.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd come out of a pretty hectic divorce. Post-COVID, everything,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we kind of, everyone lost their shit a bit,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, including us. And I had two girls and

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<v Speaker 2>came out of that thinking, I'm a bit broken. I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, what am I going to do? I've got

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<v Speaker 2>these two beautiful girls. And my one rule with coming

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<v Speaker 2>out of that marriage was we'd worked so hard on

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<v Speaker 2>those kids and creating such a beautiful life for them.

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<v Speaker 2>There was no way I was going to fuck them

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<v Speaker 2>up with a terrible divorce. So both my ex and

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<v Speaker 2>I have worked hard at staying friends and being kind

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<v Speaker 2>to each other, even though it was carnage. So that

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<v Speaker 2>was my big thing is that I didn't want to

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<v Speaker 2>put ego in front of their future happiness. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>do you know what? We've got these guys, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>life is too short to spend it in the rear

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<v Speaker 2>view mirror. So I just was like, you know what?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to keep working, head down, bum up, take

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<v Speaker 2>these kids on their journey with me. And, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>as a result, they were happy and we were happy

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<v Speaker 2>and everything was okay. I was definitely not looking for

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<v Speaker 2>a partner or anything. I was just quite happily cruising

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<v Speaker 2>on my own, having fun. I've got, you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>best set of girlfriends and having so much fun with

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<v Speaker 2>them and having fun with my girls and my family.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I wasn't looking for anyone as such.

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<v Speaker 1>But not looking and not looking as such can mean

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<v Speaker 1>two very different things if you dig beneath the surface.

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<v Speaker 2>Unlike anyone, you know, like I come across as a

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<v Speaker 2>pretty strong and independent, you know, I've got a really

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<v Speaker 2>good tough mask, but I still wanted my prints. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>we all want our prints and that's okay too, to

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<v Speaker 2>want that. And I guess at the time I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>want my girls also to think, that that's not an

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<v Speaker 2>opportunity to have love. Love comes in many forms and

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<v Speaker 2>it comes once, twice, three times. No twin flames here.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, so whilst I wasn't looking for anyone, I

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<v Speaker 2>certainly did think, you know, there's another one out there

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<v Speaker 2>for me, for sure. I was like looking for my

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<v Speaker 2>silver fox.

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<v Speaker 1>What she didn't expect was to find him in a

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<v Speaker 1>wine bar while having a cheeky couple with a girlfriend.

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<v Speaker 2>We were about eight margaritas down each and... this tall,

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<v Speaker 2>he was a big man, he's a big man, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>salt and pepper hair, very beautiful blue eyes. And he

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<v Speaker 2>walked past me and I'm, you know, pretty obnoxious. And

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<v Speaker 2>I said, hey, did I fuck you in 88? He

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<v Speaker 2>sort of stopped in his tracks and said, no, I

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<v Speaker 2>would have been 14. And I go, oh yeah, shit,

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<v Speaker 2>I would have been 13. Yeah, no worries. Anyway, bye. Bye.

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<v Speaker 2>And didn't even think much of it. And then he

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<v Speaker 2>came up to me later in the afternoon and said,

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<v Speaker 2>what's your name? And I was like, you know, Jess.

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<v Speaker 2>And he said, Jess, I've lived all over the world

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<v Speaker 2>and I've never really come across anyone like you. I

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<v Speaker 2>was immediately kind of hooked. And then he was telling

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<v Speaker 2>me he was divorced and I was divorced and we

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<v Speaker 2>was talking, well, not divorced, but, you know, separated. And

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<v Speaker 2>we were talking about What that was like, what that

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<v Speaker 2>experience is actually like. He was like, yeah, I totally understand. Like,

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<v Speaker 2>you seem like an amazing person. I was like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I am.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyway, so then my friend and I left. So the

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<v Speaker 2>next thing you know, I start Googling him. And then

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<v Speaker 2>in the morning he texted me saying, been on LinkedIn,

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<v Speaker 2>have you? And I was so horrified because I was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>oh my God. I didn't know that you could stalk

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<v Speaker 2>people and that was sort of okay. So I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, hand on face. And then that Friday he

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<v Speaker 2>was like, my horoscope says we should be having a

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<v Speaker 2>wine in the sun this afternoon. And I was like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>my shrink says I should be picking my kids up

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<v Speaker 2>from football. So I've got like an hour. Anyway, before

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<v Speaker 2>I was going to this date, I was on the

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<v Speaker 2>phone with my friend going, I'm not going. I'm not going.

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<v Speaker 2>What am I doing? No, no, absolutely not. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>have it in me. I was scared. I wasn't frightened

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<v Speaker 2>of falling in love. I was just like, surely it

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<v Speaker 2>can't be this easy. Anyway, I go to the date.

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<v Speaker 2>And we're sitting there and he's so like charming and worldly.

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<v Speaker 2>We had cheese and we had this beautiful wine and

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<v Speaker 2>he was telling me all about where he'd lived in Singapore,

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<v Speaker 2>in Italy, everywhere. He'd sold his business for like $ 20

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<v Speaker 2>million and he was still looking to go back and

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<v Speaker 2>be that golden boy again. And he was struggling finding

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<v Speaker 2>that thing that he did it with last time. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>what gave him that power last time? And then he

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<v Speaker 2>got up from the table. And like he walked past

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<v Speaker 2>me to go to the bathroom and he walked past

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<v Speaker 2>me and he just leaned down, put his hand on

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<v Speaker 2>my shoulder and like gave me a peck on the

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<v Speaker 2>cheek as he walked past. I'm like, oh, oh my God.

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<v Speaker 2>He also had two daughters and they were at the

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<v Speaker 2>time 16 and 17. He was divorced. Well, separated actually,

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<v Speaker 2>hadn't divorced yet. Gave her 15 grand a month in

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<v Speaker 2>child support because he was so successful. He had businesses

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<v Speaker 2>in Singapore. He had a plastics business. He had a

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<v Speaker 2>data business in Melbourne. He had 21 properties. He had

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<v Speaker 2>owned a winery in Italy. At the time that I

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<v Speaker 2>met him, though, he was also working. He was on

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<v Speaker 2>a really good wage. He was working as a consultant

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<v Speaker 2>in quite a big business. I was like, oh, you're

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<v Speaker 2>just divine. I mean, the fairy tale, I've got to say,

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted it. Felt hook, line and sinker.

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<v Speaker 1>From that very first date, probably from the first meeting,

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<v Speaker 1>they went headfirst into that can't eat, can't sleep, teenage

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<v Speaker 1>level obsessed with each other. Yep, Simon fell too. As in, literally.

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<v Speaker 2>He broke his ankle. And that's what supercharged our relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>Because I was like, Florence Nightingale, met his mum. I

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<v Speaker 2>was taking sushi to him. That's how I met his daughter.

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<v Speaker 2>Because I immediately went into the care role to look

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<v Speaker 2>after him. And he didn't live far from me either.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's what made it easy. It was just sort

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<v Speaker 2>of down the road, you know, in the car very quickly.

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<v Speaker 2>So I could go back and forth. We would go

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<v Speaker 2>back to where we met, to this little wine bar

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<v Speaker 2>once or twice a week, hold hands, grin like twits.

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<v Speaker 2>We were so in love. I remember like listening to

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<v Speaker 2>songs and We would call each other in the middle

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<v Speaker 2>of the night and he did have a very nice voice.

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<v Speaker 2>He had like what we would call a radio voice.

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<v Speaker 2>And so we'd be like lying in bed in the

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<v Speaker 2>middle of the night and we'd be talking, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>under the doona covers. It was like we were teenagers.

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<v Speaker 2>And he was worldly and he knew a lot and

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<v Speaker 2>he listened and he saw me. He had empathy for

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<v Speaker 2>my situation with my ex-partner at the time. He was kind.

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<v Speaker 2>He was a good dad as far as I could

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<v Speaker 2>see at the time. He was lovely to my friends.

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<v Speaker 2>He would then say to my friends when we'd go out,

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<v Speaker 2>she's changed my life. She's making me a better man.

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<v Speaker 2>I love her so much. She is just amazing. I've

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<v Speaker 2>never met anyone like her. She's not living up to

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<v Speaker 2>her potential. I wish she believed in herself as much

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<v Speaker 2>as I believe in her. He was like wrapping a

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<v Speaker 2>big cloak of security around me. I was just... this is,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm finally happy, this is it. I'd been officially separated

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<v Speaker 2>from my ex for about a year and a half,

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<v Speaker 2>but we had been living separately because we had a farm.

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<v Speaker 2>So I lived in the city, he lived at our

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<v Speaker 2>farm for about three years prior to that. So I

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<v Speaker 2>hadn't had anyone... in my day to day for ages

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<v Speaker 2>and I hadn't felt loved for ages or seen or like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, there's that saying where they say that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, marriage is a witness to your life and

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't have that. So I really did miss that

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<v Speaker 2>as much as I love my kids and my friends

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<v Speaker 2>and my family. You know, I really miss that feeling

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<v Speaker 2>of having someone on my, on my team. I wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>out there hunting for a husband or anything or hunting

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<v Speaker 2>for my prince. That's why it was so lovely when

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<v Speaker 2>he did come along because it was so natural. It

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<v Speaker 2>felt so natural. It felt unforced. And I'm a lover.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was happy to love someone and have the

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<v Speaker 2>opportunity to love someone again. And I think he was too.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we surprised ourselves at how we responded to

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<v Speaker 2>each other's affection and that feeling of falling in love again.

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<v Speaker 2>The lust was immediate, all that stuff. But to really

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<v Speaker 2>have felt like this is someone I can be with, that,

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<v Speaker 2>oh God, this guy is so dependable. I can really

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<v Speaker 2>trust him. In the first year, I took him to

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<v Speaker 2>Thailand with my girls. I'd finally got my settlement money

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<v Speaker 2>from my ex. And so I was like, woohoo, take

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<v Speaker 2>the girls to Thailand. It's been a really shit four years, right?

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<v Speaker 2>especially with COVID. And he was like, should I come?

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, yeah. So he came to Thailand and

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<v Speaker 2>we just had, he got along with my girls. And

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<v Speaker 2>like in this first year that we were together, he

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<v Speaker 2>would pick my girls up from school. He would drop

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<v Speaker 2>them off. He was part of our family. My girls

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<v Speaker 2>liked him. They came to depend on him. He was

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<v Speaker 2>a fixture because we weren't living together, but he was

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<v Speaker 2>certainly around all the time. And yeah, he would say,

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<v Speaker 2>You don't have to do this alone. Let me get

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<v Speaker 2>Grace from school, right? So he'd go and pick her up.

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<v Speaker 2>And so they developed a really nice bond, Grace and Simon.

0:12:34.898 --> 0:12:40.288
<v Speaker 2>He was the first man that Grace really actually got

0:12:40.348 --> 0:12:45.428
<v Speaker 2>to respect, I think, after the nasty divorce. So before

0:12:45.448 --> 0:12:48.388
<v Speaker 2>we moved in together, he gave receipts of why we

0:12:48.468 --> 0:12:51.218
<v Speaker 2>should trust him. There was no reason why not to.

0:12:52.658 --> 0:12:55.518
<v Speaker 1>Moving in together was the obvious next step. And just

0:12:55.558 --> 0:12:58.358
<v Speaker 1>when they both felt that step was coming, the universe

0:12:58.398 --> 0:13:00.878
<v Speaker 1>delivered it on a platter with perfect timing.

0:13:01.578 --> 0:13:05.778
<v Speaker 2>So we decided after a year together that we'd move

0:13:05.798 --> 0:13:09.058
<v Speaker 2>in together. We'd find a place. And he was like, yeah,

0:13:09.098 --> 0:13:10.838
<v Speaker 2>let's find a place to live together. I've got all

0:13:10.858 --> 0:13:13.117
<v Speaker 2>this money. We're going to find somewhere beautiful. I was

0:13:13.158 --> 0:13:15.658
<v Speaker 2>so excited because I thought, here is a man. I

0:13:15.678 --> 0:13:18.857
<v Speaker 2>know he cooks and he cleans and he likes to

0:13:18.878 --> 0:13:22.778
<v Speaker 2>go to nice restaurants and he loves my kids. And

0:13:22.798 --> 0:13:25.078
<v Speaker 2>he wants to find a really nice house for us

0:13:25.118 --> 0:13:29.478
<v Speaker 2>to live in together. So he had 21 properties and

0:13:30.078 --> 0:13:32.218
<v Speaker 2>they were all rented out and they were investment properties.

0:13:32.378 --> 0:13:34.678
<v Speaker 2>So they were all like one bedroom, two bedroom places.

0:13:34.738 --> 0:13:37.158
<v Speaker 2>They weren't going to fit his two girls, my two

0:13:37.198 --> 0:13:40.248
<v Speaker 2>girls and me. And so, you know, he took, obviously

0:13:40.348 --> 0:13:43.868
<v Speaker 2>he had income from those. So our idea would be

0:13:44.448 --> 0:13:46.448
<v Speaker 2>not to move into one of these properties, but to

0:13:46.508 --> 0:13:49.448
<v Speaker 2>actually make our own home together, which is exactly what

0:13:49.468 --> 0:13:54.137
<v Speaker 2>I wanted. Right. So anyway, so we find this big, beautiful,

0:13:54.238 --> 0:13:59.498
<v Speaker 2>sprawling Edwardian home in a really gorgeous suburb that we

0:13:59.518 --> 0:14:04.618
<v Speaker 2>both loved. However, it was very expensive. So I was like,

0:14:05.298 --> 0:14:08.658
<v Speaker 2>are you sure? And he said, babe, you do the

0:14:08.718 --> 0:14:13.338
<v Speaker 2>bills and the food. I do the rent. I was like, ah,

0:14:14.098 --> 0:14:16.718
<v Speaker 2>still a lot of money. And he was like, no,

0:14:17.278 --> 0:14:19.858
<v Speaker 2>it's fine. I've got this. So I was like, oh

0:14:20.318 --> 0:14:22.868
<v Speaker 2>my God, okay. So we move all the girls in.

0:14:23.368 --> 0:14:25.568
<v Speaker 2>It's him, me. We're in this big, beautiful home. My

0:14:25.588 --> 0:14:29.738
<v Speaker 2>two dogs had a big sprawling driveway and it was

0:14:30.778 --> 0:14:35.158
<v Speaker 2>a beautiful home to raise a blended family in. And

0:14:35.898 --> 0:14:38.298
<v Speaker 2>his daughters and I would sit up and talk all

0:14:38.338 --> 0:14:43.318
<v Speaker 2>night and my daughters and it really was a beautiful family.

0:14:44.378 --> 0:14:46.978
<v Speaker 2>And we loved it. It was so much fun. We

0:14:47.018 --> 0:14:49.988
<v Speaker 2>had rocking times there. Like it was unreal. And he

0:14:50.028 --> 0:14:53.128
<v Speaker 2>would cook and he'd cook his duck risotto and I'd

0:14:53.168 --> 0:14:56.548
<v Speaker 2>be there and I'd be singing Taylor Swift and we

0:14:56.568 --> 0:14:58.668
<v Speaker 2>were singing Bruce Brinkstein and we were in love and

0:14:58.688 --> 0:15:00.358
<v Speaker 2>we were drinking red wine. We were just having the

0:15:00.378 --> 0:15:03.938
<v Speaker 2>best time ever. And, yeah, we had mutual friends that

0:15:03.958 --> 0:15:08.078
<v Speaker 2>we'd made together. We had it all. It was beautiful.

0:15:08.818 --> 0:15:11.178
<v Speaker 1>So they lived happily ever after, the end?

0:15:11.898 --> 0:15:15.698
<v Speaker 2>So even though we were– I was so happy, there

0:15:15.738 --> 0:15:19.808
<v Speaker 2>were a few detractors. The first– I guess red flag

0:15:19.848 --> 0:15:24.428
<v Speaker 2>from my friends and family was my brother, who was like,

0:15:24.448 --> 0:15:27.148
<v Speaker 2>he's got 21 properties. This is a year later, by

0:15:27.168 --> 0:15:29.628
<v Speaker 2>the way. So a year in, this was when we

0:15:29.668 --> 0:15:32.068
<v Speaker 2>were moving in together into my place. He said, why

0:15:32.138 --> 0:15:35.038
<v Speaker 2>is he moving in there? Like, why doesn't he buy

0:15:35.078 --> 0:15:39.798
<v Speaker 2>a house? Like, what's going on? My daughter even was

0:15:39.838 --> 0:15:41.918
<v Speaker 2>with me. She was like, they're just haters, Mum. Don't

0:15:41.938 --> 0:15:44.978
<v Speaker 2>worry about it. And then he got into cahoots with

0:15:45.178 --> 0:15:51.198
<v Speaker 2>my best friend, Portia, who– was like, dude, this guy

0:15:52.158 --> 0:15:53.958
<v Speaker 2>does not own a winery in Italy. And I was like,

0:15:53.978 --> 0:15:57.898
<v Speaker 2>he does. I've seen it. And then with all the

0:15:57.958 --> 0:16:00.318
<v Speaker 2>constant noise I kept getting from them, why are you

0:16:00.358 --> 0:16:02.088
<v Speaker 2>paying for lunches? Why are you doing this? Why are

0:16:02.108 --> 0:16:04.668
<v Speaker 2>you paying this? Why is this man, why did you

0:16:04.708 --> 0:16:07.348
<v Speaker 2>pay for Thailand? Why did you pay for Tasmania at

0:16:07.408 --> 0:16:11.008
<v Speaker 2>Sapphire Lodge? I know. So why are you paying for

0:16:11.048 --> 0:16:12.388
<v Speaker 2>all this? Where's his money?

0:16:13.088 --> 0:16:16.048
<v Speaker 1>Wait, wait, wait, back it up. Jess was paying for

0:16:16.068 --> 0:16:19.068
<v Speaker 1>all these things. Not to say that a man should

0:16:19.108 --> 0:16:21.498
<v Speaker 1>be doing so or to steal her brother and best

0:16:21.528 --> 0:16:25.098
<v Speaker 1>friend's limelight, but yeah, I'm also going to ask why.

0:16:25.878 --> 0:16:28.038
<v Speaker 2>I'm happy to pay for things because for me, being

0:16:28.078 --> 0:16:31.558
<v Speaker 2>a fierce independent woman is part of that. We're being

0:16:31.638 --> 0:16:34.168
<v Speaker 2>sold that at the moment too. I wasn't hiding the

0:16:34.208 --> 0:16:37.208
<v Speaker 2>fact that I was paying for things when we'd gone

0:16:37.228 --> 0:16:41.848
<v Speaker 2>to Thailand and he'd said, oh, I'll pay my part

0:16:41.868 --> 0:16:44.378
<v Speaker 2>of the accommodation or whatever. And I was like, yeah, okay, great.

0:16:44.478 --> 0:16:49.068
<v Speaker 2>And When we were in Thailand, he booked this $ 2, 000

0:16:48.228 --> 0:16:50.748
<v Speaker 2>a day boat for the four of us to go

0:16:50.868 --> 0:16:53.948
<v Speaker 2>on and zoom around Thailand. I was like, oh, that's crazy.

0:16:54.408 --> 0:16:57.348
<v Speaker 2>That's not. He said, no, babe, I've got this. And

0:16:57.368 --> 0:17:02.048
<v Speaker 2>then as we were leaving Thailand, the day before, he

0:17:02.068 --> 0:17:06.008
<v Speaker 2>got a phone call. He had to go early. And

0:17:06.068 --> 0:17:12.197
<v Speaker 2>his secretary, EA, had put him on the wrong flight.

0:17:13.238 --> 0:17:15.957
<v Speaker 2>So that leaves me in Thailand. paying the bill for

0:17:15.978 --> 0:17:18.138
<v Speaker 2>the hotel, which, do you know what? I was fine

0:17:18.158 --> 0:17:21.238
<v Speaker 2>with because I was taking my daughters anyway. It wasn't

0:17:21.358 --> 0:17:24.398
<v Speaker 2>that I wanted him to pay for that. I wanted,

0:17:24.618 --> 0:17:27.338
<v Speaker 2>I was paying for myself. He was like, sorry, babe,

0:17:27.358 --> 0:17:29.927
<v Speaker 2>EA fucked up. But yeah, no, I'll sort you out.

0:17:30.588 --> 0:17:33.688
<v Speaker 2>He never did. We did go out for lunch one

0:17:33.728 --> 0:17:37.888
<v Speaker 2>day with friends of ours and the bill came to

0:17:38.148 --> 0:17:39.728
<v Speaker 2>like a lot of money between four of us. We'd

0:17:39.768 --> 0:17:43.687
<v Speaker 2>spent all day there. And when the bill came, And

0:17:43.868 --> 0:17:47.148
<v Speaker 2>Porky Pig had ordered, you know, extra lobster rolls. And

0:17:47.168 --> 0:17:50.228
<v Speaker 2>the bill came and he just looked at me and

0:17:50.268 --> 0:17:52.468
<v Speaker 2>I was like, okay, I'm paying, sure. It was like

0:17:52.468 --> 0:17:57.468
<v Speaker 2>$ 1, 600 or something per couple. But everything else was amazing.

0:17:58.148 --> 0:18:00.427
<v Speaker 2>So what do you do? One tiny little red flag?

0:18:00.938 --> 0:18:03.838
<v Speaker 1>But is that tiny? And was it just one?

0:18:03.858 --> 0:18:06.398
<v Speaker 2>I was sitting on the sofa one day and I

0:18:06.438 --> 0:18:08.177
<v Speaker 2>get a text, hey, I've got a way for you

0:18:08.198 --> 0:18:12.638
<v Speaker 2>to make $ 10, 000 in like two weeks. And I was like, yeah?

0:18:13.518 --> 0:18:15.078
<v Speaker 2>And he comes home and he says, right, so the

0:18:15.118 --> 0:18:18.778
<v Speaker 2>company I'm working for, they need a quick investment. And

0:18:19.338 --> 0:18:21.358
<v Speaker 2>I was like, cool, no worries. When will I get

0:18:21.378 --> 0:18:23.258
<v Speaker 2>it back? He said, in two weeks, like you'll get

0:18:23.258 --> 0:18:26.757
<v Speaker 2>10 grand. I was like, yeah, okay. Cause I'd heard him,

0:18:26.818 --> 0:18:30.258
<v Speaker 2>I'd seen him on phone calls. I had heard him

0:18:31.478 --> 0:18:33.738
<v Speaker 2>doing his wills and deals. Like I had no reason

0:18:33.778 --> 0:18:36.358
<v Speaker 2>to actually doubt him. So I was like, yeah, no worries.

0:18:36.618 --> 0:18:40.888
<v Speaker 2>So I transferred it directly into his account, two sets

0:18:40.918 --> 0:18:43.438
<v Speaker 2>of 40 and one set of 20. over three days.

0:18:44.638 --> 0:18:49.417
<v Speaker 2>And two weeks later, what's going on? It never came.

0:18:50.258 --> 0:18:54.308
<v Speaker 2>So I was like, Hey babe, just for my own head,

0:18:55.208 --> 0:18:59.248
<v Speaker 2>when am I getting my money back? And he was like, soon, babe, soon.

0:19:00.168 --> 0:19:02.968
<v Speaker 2>And this went on for two months. But in that

0:19:03.028 --> 0:19:07.108
<v Speaker 2>two months, we're in the beautiful house. Everything's amazing. And

0:19:07.268 --> 0:19:11.858
<v Speaker 2>so one afternoon I'm playing Bruce Springsteen, full pelt, summer's out.

0:19:11.878 --> 0:19:14.248
<v Speaker 2>It's like spring. I had a glass of wine in

0:19:14.288 --> 0:19:16.138
<v Speaker 2>my hand and I was like, my God, life is

0:19:16.148 --> 0:19:19.478
<v Speaker 2>just so good. I had the niggling 100K in the

0:19:19.518 --> 0:19:20.978
<v Speaker 2>back of my head. But at the same time, I

0:19:21.018 --> 0:19:23.657
<v Speaker 2>thought I'm with this guy forever. It doesn't matter. I'm

0:19:23.698 --> 0:19:26.308
<v Speaker 2>getting the 100K back. Like, don't even think about it.

0:19:27.338 --> 0:19:31.157
<v Speaker 2>Look where we are. Like, he's paying the rent. Everything's good.

0:19:31.998 --> 0:19:33.648
<v Speaker 2>And he walks in the door this day and the

0:19:33.678 --> 0:19:36.447
<v Speaker 2>dogs ran at him. And I remember thinking, this is lovely.

0:19:36.508 --> 0:19:41.148
<v Speaker 2>But his face was kind of ashen. I was like,

0:19:41.168 --> 0:19:48.148
<v Speaker 2>what's going on? And he said, your money's gone. He said,

0:19:48.168 --> 0:19:51.858
<v Speaker 2>your money, the company's gone under. It's a fucking disaster.

0:19:52.258 --> 0:19:53.598
<v Speaker 2>But don't worry, I'm going to try and get it back.

0:19:53.618 --> 0:19:56.058
<v Speaker 2>Don't you worry. This is where it got really hectic.

0:19:56.098 --> 0:19:59.458
<v Speaker 2>So he had used a, he was very angry with

0:19:59.478 --> 0:20:02.678
<v Speaker 2>the person. in this company that he that had fucked

0:20:02.738 --> 0:20:08.828
<v Speaker 2>up this business therefore my money and he had gone

0:20:08.908 --> 0:20:12.548
<v Speaker 2>to a debt collector to get the money back from

0:20:12.708 --> 0:20:17.468
<v Speaker 2>said person let's call him Max So he had gone

0:20:17.488 --> 0:20:21.548
<v Speaker 2>to debt collectors to retrieve my 100K from Max. So

0:20:21.608 --> 0:20:23.228
<v Speaker 2>basically the way it works is he went to them.

0:20:23.688 --> 0:20:26.238
<v Speaker 2>He said, I need to get 100K back from this bloke.

0:20:26.338 --> 0:20:29.157
<v Speaker 2>They said, no worries, we'll take 30%. That's what they do.

0:20:30.318 --> 0:20:34.978
<v Speaker 2>He then rang Max and said, Max, I'm using this

0:20:35.258 --> 0:20:39.038
<v Speaker 2>debt recovery company. I suggest you give me some money.

0:20:39.618 --> 0:20:42.898
<v Speaker 2>He goes, I don't have the 100 grand, Simon, but

0:20:42.998 --> 0:20:47.568
<v Speaker 2>I do have A vintage car worth 55 and paintings

0:20:47.608 --> 0:20:51.428
<v Speaker 2>to the value of another 30. So Simon was like,

0:20:51.908 --> 0:21:01.677
<v Speaker 2>we'll take it. However, silly Simon went back to the

0:21:01.738 --> 0:21:04.278
<v Speaker 2>debt collectors and said, I don't need you guys anymore.

0:21:04.378 --> 0:21:07.558
<v Speaker 2>He's actually going to give me some money. And they said, well,

0:21:07.578 --> 0:21:09.558
<v Speaker 2>did you use our name? And he said, no, no, no, no.

0:21:09.578 --> 0:21:12.677
<v Speaker 2>He's just changed his mind. Oh, no. So next thing

0:21:12.698 --> 0:21:17.148
<v Speaker 2>you know, They ring Max and they're like, did he

0:21:17.248 --> 0:21:19.967
<v Speaker 2>use our name to threaten to get the money? And

0:21:20.048 --> 0:21:23.638
<v Speaker 2>he's like, yeah, he did. So he gets a phone

0:21:23.678 --> 0:21:26.518
<v Speaker 2>call from these guys saying, be here in half an

0:21:26.558 --> 0:21:30.438
<v Speaker 2>hour with this much money. So the debt collector's basically

0:21:30.458 --> 0:21:32.058
<v Speaker 2>the way it works. If you're going to use their

0:21:32.098 --> 0:21:36.428
<v Speaker 2>name to intimidate someone, you will have to pay for that.

0:21:36.828 --> 0:21:39.508
<v Speaker 2>So he had to sell his car that day. And

0:21:40.388 --> 0:21:43.428
<v Speaker 2>the next day comes home with this car, this vintage car,

0:21:44.068 --> 0:21:46.768
<v Speaker 2>And the paintings. I'm like, what the fuck am I

0:21:46.848 --> 0:21:51.388
<v Speaker 2>going to do with a car and paintings? And I

0:21:51.468 --> 0:21:54.947
<v Speaker 2>hadn't told anyone I'd lent him that $ 100, 000. Meanwhile, I'm

0:21:54.988 --> 0:22:00.188
<v Speaker 2>also lending him $ 5, 000 here, $ 200, 000 there, $ 300, 000 there, $ 6, 000 there,

0:22:00.648 --> 0:22:04.088
<v Speaker 2>to the tune of about $ 80, 000. The thing is, when

0:22:04.508 --> 0:22:07.068
<v Speaker 2>someone's got a lot of money like that, and it was,

0:22:07.448 --> 0:22:10.508
<v Speaker 2>you know, he'd sold a business for $ 20 million. And,

0:22:10.988 --> 0:22:14.388
<v Speaker 2>you know, there were receipts of that. So when... Someone

0:22:14.448 --> 0:22:16.068
<v Speaker 2>has a lot of money like that. And I didn't,

0:22:16.288 --> 0:22:20.168
<v Speaker 2>I didn't really, I just believed that you can't get

0:22:20.208 --> 0:22:23.208
<v Speaker 2>your money at a whims notice. There's tax implication. There's

0:22:23.588 --> 0:22:26.707
<v Speaker 2>bringing money in from Singapore. There's, you know, they're all

0:22:26.728 --> 0:22:29.568
<v Speaker 2>tied up in properties. Like I get it. I get

0:22:29.628 --> 0:22:33.487
<v Speaker 2>that you can't just wrangle 10K for a car today.

0:22:34.188 --> 0:22:37.078
<v Speaker 2>He'd say, oh, babe, I'm waiting on money to be

0:22:37.118 --> 0:22:39.957
<v Speaker 2>released from Singapore. I'm waiting on this. I'd see him

0:22:40.018 --> 0:22:44.218
<v Speaker 2>on Zoom calls with like five guys in Singapore. I

0:22:44.298 --> 0:22:47.178
<v Speaker 2>saw so much proof of it being real. Every time

0:22:47.198 --> 0:22:48.998
<v Speaker 2>I would question, he would show me the property. He

0:22:49.018 --> 0:22:50.657
<v Speaker 2>would show me the spreadsheets. He would show me the

0:22:50.818 --> 0:22:54.218
<v Speaker 2>emails from his accountant. There was always money moving. And

0:22:54.238 --> 0:22:57.568
<v Speaker 2>he had this friend, Sophie, who was his accountant, who

0:22:57.588 --> 0:23:00.088
<v Speaker 2>would help him all the time with his money. He'd say,

0:23:00.628 --> 0:23:02.868
<v Speaker 2>just heading to Sophie's to get some money released to

0:23:02.908 --> 0:23:04.868
<v Speaker 2>do this or to do that, to release the car,

0:23:04.888 --> 0:23:08.148
<v Speaker 2>release the money, release the tax, release the fucking dogs.

0:23:08.268 --> 0:23:10.708
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Every time he'd go to Sophie, there

0:23:10.728 --> 0:23:13.858
<v Speaker 2>would be money the next day. I could feel that

0:23:14.058 --> 0:23:18.138
<v Speaker 2>there was something maybe not quite right, but then he

0:23:18.178 --> 0:23:21.258
<v Speaker 2>would distract me with something. He would distract me with

0:23:21.318 --> 0:23:23.628
<v Speaker 2>a beautiful dinner or he would distract me with a

0:23:23.658 --> 0:23:26.828
<v Speaker 2>gift or something. He'd do something really nice for the kids.

0:23:28.308 --> 0:23:30.608
<v Speaker 2>And that feeling would go away just as quickly as

0:23:30.648 --> 0:23:36.648
<v Speaker 2>it arrived. And I felt loved. So why would I

0:23:36.728 --> 0:23:41.768
<v Speaker 2>want to focus on the negatives? I have always believed

0:23:41.788 --> 0:23:45.697
<v Speaker 2>in the best of people I'm not naive, but I

0:23:45.718 --> 0:23:47.858
<v Speaker 2>was like, it's not going to happen to me.

0:23:48.218 --> 0:23:51.098
<v Speaker 1>And that's what everyone thinks from the outside. We hear

0:23:51.158 --> 0:23:54.798
<v Speaker 1>stories of people falling victim to scams, truly believing the

0:23:54.838 --> 0:23:57.098
<v Speaker 1>man they met on the internet is the real deal,

0:23:57.658 --> 0:24:01.438
<v Speaker 1>willingly and trustingly handing over a stomach-churning amount of money

0:24:01.798 --> 0:24:04.758
<v Speaker 1>to con men. And we all say, it wouldn't happen

0:24:04.798 --> 0:24:08.658
<v Speaker 1>to me. I'm smarter. I would see it. But there

0:24:08.698 --> 0:24:10.938
<v Speaker 1>is a reason we hear so many of these stories,

0:24:11.498 --> 0:24:14.598
<v Speaker 1>because when you're the one in it, You don't, often,

0:24:14.858 --> 0:24:16.618
<v Speaker 1>until you're in way too deep.

0:24:18.698 --> 0:24:21.858
<v Speaker 2>At this stage, I was just giving him money. Me

0:24:21.978 --> 0:24:25.258
<v Speaker 2>transferring something quickly for me, it was almost like I

0:24:25.298 --> 0:24:29.498
<v Speaker 2>was succeeding. It was a weird form of success, man.

0:24:29.538 --> 0:24:32.058
<v Speaker 2>Like I was, like he'd say, babe, I'm stuck at

0:24:32.078 --> 0:24:35.618
<v Speaker 2>the petrol station. I need 300. I go, yeah, done.

0:24:36.598 --> 0:24:40.018
<v Speaker 2>He was paying the rent and he would take me

0:24:40.058 --> 0:24:43.198
<v Speaker 2>out for nice dinners. He would cook dinner for the kids,

0:24:44.078 --> 0:24:46.198
<v Speaker 2>every night we'd sit on the couch and he would

0:24:46.238 --> 0:24:51.198
<v Speaker 2>like rub my feet. And anyone who is rubbing my feet,

0:24:51.378 --> 0:24:55.718
<v Speaker 2>I was like, mm-hmm. So there was moments of that

0:24:56.198 --> 0:24:59.428
<v Speaker 2>where I couldn't believe how lucky I was. So, you know,

0:24:59.748 --> 0:25:02.028
<v Speaker 2>fuck it. I didn't really care. I think I thought,

0:25:02.088 --> 0:25:04.248
<v Speaker 2>you know what, even if none of this is true,

0:25:04.448 --> 0:25:06.108
<v Speaker 2>I don't give a shit. I'm sad that you had

0:25:06.148 --> 0:25:09.798
<v Speaker 2>to lie about it because of ego or whatever. rules

0:25:09.818 --> 0:25:12.158
<v Speaker 2>we have in society about being perfect, and I don't

0:25:12.198 --> 0:25:13.778
<v Speaker 2>care because you love me, I love you, and if

0:25:13.798 --> 0:25:15.158
<v Speaker 2>you have nothing, I've got us both.

0:25:16.188 --> 0:25:19.548
<v Speaker 1>But over time, things changed, and that feeling began to

0:25:19.648 --> 0:25:20.248
<v Speaker 1>fade away.

0:25:21.048 --> 0:25:24.788
<v Speaker 2>Aside from the money being something that came between us,

0:25:25.348 --> 0:25:28.958
<v Speaker 2>just his general attitude came between us too. He'd been

0:25:29.138 --> 0:25:32.118
<v Speaker 2>saying some pretty horrible things to me. He'd say things like,

0:25:32.138 --> 0:25:35.598
<v Speaker 2>you're impossible, you've let yourself go, gee, menopause is really

0:25:35.658 --> 0:25:38.178
<v Speaker 2>cracking you up. I hate the word gaslighting. I call

0:25:38.218 --> 0:25:41.358
<v Speaker 2>it gaspiping. But that's when he started gaspiping me. So

0:25:41.418 --> 0:25:43.177
<v Speaker 2>if I'd like go out and get drunk as we

0:25:43.218 --> 0:25:46.018
<v Speaker 2>all did, I'd always be the one that he would

0:25:46.608 --> 0:25:48.568
<v Speaker 2>put down the next day or say, you were this,

0:25:48.628 --> 0:25:51.187
<v Speaker 2>you were that. The way he said it and then

0:25:51.228 --> 0:25:54.467
<v Speaker 2>would deny it. I'd say, but you know, why aren't

0:25:54.488 --> 0:25:56.088
<v Speaker 2>you just being nicer to me? Why are you being

0:25:56.108 --> 0:25:58.108
<v Speaker 2>so mean to me? And he'd say, I am not

0:25:58.148 --> 0:26:01.728
<v Speaker 2>being mean to you. You are impossible to talk to.

0:26:02.768 --> 0:26:06.378
<v Speaker 2>This is what happens. Jess, you turn this around. and

0:26:06.398 --> 0:26:10.298
<v Speaker 2>you get aggressive. When someone tells you that, you become

0:26:10.438 --> 0:26:13.608
<v Speaker 2>so non-aggressive, you become such a victim. And I was like,

0:26:14.348 --> 0:26:18.488
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I'm not aggressive. Oh my God. The way

0:26:18.528 --> 0:26:24.268
<v Speaker 2>he gas piped me was hectic. It was this constant little,

0:26:24.968 --> 0:26:26.588
<v Speaker 2>you've put on weight, or why don't you go to

0:26:26.628 --> 0:26:29.128
<v Speaker 2>the gym? But then at the same time, I went

0:26:29.168 --> 0:26:31.908
<v Speaker 2>on a Zen pic or something. And he said, don't

0:26:31.928 --> 0:26:35.178
<v Speaker 2>you dare go on that. That changes your personality. But

0:26:35.278 --> 0:26:38.978
<v Speaker 2>no one knew I was keeping that shit really close

0:26:38.998 --> 0:26:39.578
<v Speaker 2>to my chest.

0:26:40.858 --> 0:26:44.437
<v Speaker 1>Jess knew the relationship had become entirely toxic and her

0:26:44.518 --> 0:26:47.657
<v Speaker 1>situation was far worse than she would have ever comprehended

0:26:47.698 --> 0:26:51.108
<v Speaker 1>getting herself in. The good things no longer outweighed the bad.

0:26:51.148 --> 0:26:54.687
<v Speaker 1>She knew this, but she felt completely and utterly stuck.

0:26:55.688 --> 0:26:58.348
<v Speaker 2>I fucking hated him. What I can do is start

0:26:58.368 --> 0:27:02.278
<v Speaker 2>to protect myself and just focus on my girls. I

0:27:02.278 --> 0:27:03.917
<v Speaker 2>was like, you know what? I've been in a loveless

0:27:03.958 --> 0:27:06.677
<v Speaker 2>marriage before. I can do it again. My daughter's in

0:27:06.718 --> 0:27:09.258
<v Speaker 2>year 12. I am not about to blow that up.

0:27:10.118 --> 0:27:12.078
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't about to start fighting with him either. I

0:27:12.218 --> 0:27:15.868
<v Speaker 2>couldn't be fucked. I thought you just got to get

0:27:15.888 --> 0:27:19.748
<v Speaker 2>through this again. Like you are now in like some

0:27:19.848 --> 0:27:24.708
<v Speaker 2>crazy trauma bond again. But he was part of our family.

0:27:25.388 --> 0:27:28.528
<v Speaker 2>My girls liked him. They came to depend on him.

0:27:29.528 --> 0:27:32.028
<v Speaker 2>My daughter went on a gap year overseas and she

0:27:32.128 --> 0:27:33.927
<v Speaker 2>loved him, right? He was the first man that she

0:27:33.968 --> 0:27:36.177
<v Speaker 2>really did ever love. As I was about to put

0:27:36.198 --> 0:27:41.278
<v Speaker 2>her on the plane, she said, Mum, Simon's boring. So

0:27:41.298 --> 0:27:46.457
<v Speaker 2>that's when I was like, that was my permission to

0:27:46.498 --> 0:27:49.218
<v Speaker 2>be cut and to cut and run or be cut

0:27:49.238 --> 0:27:51.618
<v Speaker 2>and run on, which was actually the case. But that

0:27:51.658 --> 0:27:53.898
<v Speaker 2>was when I was like, oh, God, I can so

0:27:53.918 --> 0:27:56.717
<v Speaker 2>break up with this guy. Fuck this guy. Like my

0:27:56.778 --> 0:27:59.098
<v Speaker 2>kids don't like him anymore. No worries. I am out

0:27:59.138 --> 0:28:01.118
<v Speaker 2>of here and I will leave that $ 100, 000 in the

0:28:01.158 --> 0:28:01.838
<v Speaker 2>dust and I don't care.

0:28:02.418 --> 0:28:05.638
<v Speaker 1>But she didn't do that. She didn't know how. She

0:28:05.698 --> 0:28:07.778
<v Speaker 1>felt she just had to accept this was her life

0:28:07.838 --> 0:28:10.937
<v Speaker 1>now and that she'd chosen it. She was resigned to

0:28:11.038 --> 0:28:14.778
<v Speaker 1>never getting out. But, dear listeners, that's never a fate

0:28:14.898 --> 0:28:18.947
<v Speaker 1>written in stone. There's almost always that one straw that

0:28:18.988 --> 0:28:20.588
<v Speaker 1>eventually breaks the camel's back.

0:28:21.228 --> 0:28:24.248
<v Speaker 2>He was hopeless with technology, and I'm a real tech person,

0:28:25.008 --> 0:28:27.328
<v Speaker 2>and he came into my office and was like, can

0:28:27.348 --> 0:28:28.948
<v Speaker 2>you help me with this? And I was like, yeah, sure.

0:28:30.268 --> 0:28:35.467
<v Speaker 2>And up on his laptop comes, love you, babe. text

0:28:36.488 --> 0:28:41.128
<v Speaker 2>and I actually laughed I went who's that and I

0:28:41.128 --> 0:28:43.788
<v Speaker 2>was like no no and I was like no no

0:28:43.828 --> 0:28:47.148
<v Speaker 2>who is that like I'm laughing going are you serious

0:28:47.328 --> 0:28:49.788
<v Speaker 2>at this stage you are now getting fucking text messages

0:28:49.808 --> 0:28:53.528
<v Speaker 2>from someone saying love you babe and it was so

0:28:53.888 --> 0:28:56.228
<v Speaker 2>oh my god I go give me your phone he's

0:28:56.248 --> 0:28:59.128
<v Speaker 2>like no no he was like it's just this girl

0:28:59.168 --> 0:29:02.248
<v Speaker 2>I know from New Zealand I was running on adrenaline

0:29:02.428 --> 0:29:08.658
<v Speaker 2>and cortisol and Dreaded word trauma, survival. I had a

0:29:08.718 --> 0:29:12.358
<v Speaker 2>new job, full time, two kids. It was just so

0:29:12.418 --> 0:29:16.138
<v Speaker 2>full on, my life at the time, that I was like,

0:29:16.638 --> 0:29:19.898
<v Speaker 2>it was just more information that I can't deal with

0:29:19.958 --> 0:29:22.368
<v Speaker 2>right now. But I still didn't really think we were

0:29:22.388 --> 0:29:25.868
<v Speaker 2>going to break up. Just another, I'm too busy to

0:29:25.928 --> 0:29:29.408
<v Speaker 2>be worrying about your philandering ass. Then he went to

0:29:29.468 --> 0:29:33.238
<v Speaker 2>New Zealand over Christmas for like four weeks. I did

0:29:33.278 --> 0:29:36.078
<v Speaker 2>a full deep dive down into his Instagram contacts and

0:29:36.118 --> 0:29:40.328
<v Speaker 2>stuff at that stage. And there wasn't anyone in New

0:29:40.368 --> 0:29:44.268
<v Speaker 2>Zealand that I was particularly worried about. And I remember thinking,

0:29:44.668 --> 0:29:46.078
<v Speaker 2>and he called me every day in New Zealand. He

0:29:46.098 --> 0:29:47.878
<v Speaker 2>was with his mum. So I was like, well, maybe

0:29:47.938 --> 0:29:49.818
<v Speaker 2>it was just this chick on the bus. Anyway. it

0:29:49.858 --> 0:29:52.678
<v Speaker 2>wasn't but I told myself the story so then he

0:29:52.718 --> 0:29:55.558
<v Speaker 2>got back from New Zealand my brother rings me and

0:29:56.178 --> 0:29:58.868
<v Speaker 2>he says hey I just want you to know Simon's

0:29:58.888 --> 0:30:01.348
<v Speaker 2>been saying some crazy things lately because he eventually started

0:30:01.368 --> 0:30:03.848
<v Speaker 2>being friends with him he wore everyone down over two

0:30:03.868 --> 0:30:05.948
<v Speaker 2>and a half years right and Simon would go to

0:30:05.968 --> 0:30:07.848
<v Speaker 2>lunch with him and another friend of mine's husband and

0:30:07.868 --> 0:30:10.688
<v Speaker 2>he'd be saying you know Jess is terrible with money.

0:30:10.708 --> 0:30:13.188
<v Speaker 2>He'd be like, Jess is spending all her money on

0:30:13.208 --> 0:30:15.208
<v Speaker 2>her kids' school fees. Like, this is shit. She's running

0:30:15.248 --> 0:30:19.398
<v Speaker 2>out of money. And my family were like, well, yeah,

0:30:19.418 --> 0:30:20.958
<v Speaker 2>that's her choice. And he was like, no, you've got

0:30:20.978 --> 0:30:23.498
<v Speaker 2>to convince her not to spend her money on school fees.

0:30:24.198 --> 0:30:25.798
<v Speaker 2>And my brother was like, I just think you should

0:30:25.858 --> 0:30:27.958
<v Speaker 2>know that I think he's preparing to cut and run

0:30:27.978 --> 0:30:31.238
<v Speaker 2>because you're running out of money. I was like, oh,

0:30:31.298 --> 0:30:34.218
<v Speaker 2>shut up. He is not. And one day I'm sitting

0:30:34.888 --> 0:30:38.388
<v Speaker 2>in my office and he walks in and he'd been

0:30:38.448 --> 0:30:44.118
<v Speaker 2>in the Gold Coast. And he looked ashen. I was like, hi,

0:30:44.138 --> 0:30:47.658
<v Speaker 2>what do you want? I'm working. He said, I'm just

0:30:47.718 --> 0:30:51.218
<v Speaker 2>not happy, babe. I just, it's just not working out.

0:30:51.238 --> 0:30:53.718
<v Speaker 2>I'm just not happy. It was out of the blue

0:30:53.758 --> 0:30:56.178
<v Speaker 2>that he had just walked in and he'd made the decision.

0:30:56.768 --> 0:30:59.308
<v Speaker 2>So when he walked in and said, ah, you know, babe, it's,

0:30:59.908 --> 0:31:01.668
<v Speaker 2>this is really the hardest thing I've ever had to do,

0:31:01.708 --> 0:31:05.688
<v Speaker 2>but I'm just not happy. And I, no word of

0:31:05.748 --> 0:31:08.328
<v Speaker 2>a lie, didn't skip a beat. And I looked at

0:31:08.368 --> 0:31:12.988
<v Speaker 2>him and said, give me back my money. And he said, what?

0:31:14.358 --> 0:31:17.238
<v Speaker 2>And I said, fine, get the fuck out, but give

0:31:17.258 --> 0:31:18.078
<v Speaker 2>me back my money.

0:31:18.818 --> 0:31:22.278
<v Speaker 1>And he did get out, that is. He scoffed and

0:31:22.318 --> 0:31:25.498
<v Speaker 1>made out like she was being crazy and unreasonable. He

0:31:25.538 --> 0:31:28.198
<v Speaker 1>said that he was going away to do business overseas,

0:31:28.238 --> 0:31:31.258
<v Speaker 1>of course. And just like that, he left.

0:31:31.798 --> 0:31:33.498
<v Speaker 2>And I said, here we go. This is going to

0:31:33.518 --> 0:31:36.398
<v Speaker 2>be fun. This is going to be really fun. I

0:31:36.438 --> 0:31:40.088
<v Speaker 2>tell the kids that My daughter in England's like, it's okay, mum,

0:31:40.108 --> 0:31:42.498
<v Speaker 2>you'll be fine. My younger daughter, Lily, was like, I

0:31:42.518 --> 0:31:45.938
<v Speaker 2>fucking hated him anyway, mum. Anyway, so I'm like, okay,

0:31:46.298 --> 0:31:48.578
<v Speaker 2>everyone's going to be fine. His daughters were okay. They

0:31:48.618 --> 0:31:52.038
<v Speaker 2>loved me. I loved them. It was fine. But the

0:31:52.078 --> 0:31:55.468
<v Speaker 2>getting out of this eight bedroom, massive Edwardian home was

0:31:55.528 --> 0:31:58.888
<v Speaker 2>now falling onto me with my new full-time job and

0:31:58.988 --> 0:32:02.488
<v Speaker 2>him going to Singapore to do God knows what.

0:32:03.048 --> 0:32:05.538
<v Speaker 1>She was free of him. but not of the deep

0:32:05.618 --> 0:32:08.888
<v Speaker 1>financial burden he'd put and left her in. Jess had

0:32:08.958 --> 0:32:11.508
<v Speaker 1>no idea just how far she was from ever seeing

0:32:11.548 --> 0:32:15.728
<v Speaker 1>that $ 100, 000 investment again, let alone all the other thousands

0:32:15.768 --> 0:32:18.968
<v Speaker 1>she'd given him along the way. But that wasn't all.

0:32:19.668 --> 0:32:22.728
<v Speaker 2>After about a year, I started noticing the rent notices

0:32:22.948 --> 0:32:25.958
<v Speaker 2>coming in through the app, Managed App, saying, you're late

0:32:25.998 --> 0:32:28.998
<v Speaker 2>on your rent. And I'd be like, hmm. I'd go, babe,

0:32:29.158 --> 0:32:30.858
<v Speaker 2>we're late on our rent. Are you covering the rent?

0:32:30.878 --> 0:32:34.688
<v Speaker 2>Because I'm covering everything else, and believe me, feeding... Six

0:32:34.748 --> 0:32:37.128
<v Speaker 2>people in a family is expensive, plus all the bills

0:32:37.168 --> 0:32:40.078
<v Speaker 2>in an eight-bedroom home, heating. It was a lot of money.

0:32:40.798 --> 0:32:44.518
<v Speaker 2>So I'd say to him, babe, why aren't you paying

0:32:44.538 --> 0:32:47.498
<v Speaker 2>the rent? He'd say, I am. The ledger's wrong. Oh,

0:32:47.998 --> 0:32:50.058
<v Speaker 2>the real estate just got it wrong. Then he'd say,

0:32:50.478 --> 0:32:52.648
<v Speaker 2>I'll pay it. And it was always late. And that

0:32:52.678 --> 0:32:56.688
<v Speaker 2>was really stressful because I was like, I'll just pay it. No,

0:32:56.788 --> 0:32:59.908
<v Speaker 2>I can pay it. He never did. The rent was

0:32:59.948 --> 0:33:06.508
<v Speaker 2>in arrears of $ 40, 000.

0:33:03.488 --> 0:33:06.298
<v Speaker 1>It was only then Jess was hit with clarity of

0:33:06.338 --> 0:33:09.938
<v Speaker 1>a sudden, terrifying realisation she hadn't just been in a

0:33:10.118 --> 0:33:14.518
<v Speaker 1>toxic relationship, she'd been conned and he wasn't finished with

0:33:14.558 --> 0:33:14.918
<v Speaker 1>her yet.

0:33:15.698 --> 0:33:20.208
<v Speaker 2>So after he's broken up, he's gone to Singapore, I

0:33:20.228 --> 0:33:25.268
<v Speaker 2>started packing up the house and my friend Portia, who

0:33:25.308 --> 0:33:28.608
<v Speaker 2>had questioned him the year before, he never liked her again.

0:33:29.278 --> 0:33:30.778
<v Speaker 2>And she's pretty much my best mate and who I

0:33:30.798 --> 0:33:34.218
<v Speaker 2>hang out with the most. So... This night, he's come

0:33:34.258 --> 0:33:37.858
<v Speaker 2>back from Singapore. Her and I have had two bottles

0:33:37.898 --> 0:33:39.938
<v Speaker 2>of red. She has helped me literally pack up my

0:33:39.978 --> 0:33:43.478
<v Speaker 2>entire house. She was amazing, right? So we're sitting there.

0:33:43.738 --> 0:33:47.418
<v Speaker 2>We're a bottle in. And she had purchased from Timu

0:33:47.498 --> 0:33:51.378
<v Speaker 2>one of those zappy taser things, like from Instagram. Not

0:33:51.398 --> 0:33:53.998
<v Speaker 2>a real taser. Like it gives you electric shock. You

0:33:54.038 --> 0:33:57.378
<v Speaker 2>see them, right? So her, myself, my daughter, we're all

0:33:57.418 --> 0:34:01.888
<v Speaker 2>zapping each other that night, laughing. Laughing our heads off going, ugh. Anyway.

0:34:02.518 --> 0:34:07.618
<v Speaker 2>So Simon comes in, big chest out. You know, at

0:34:07.658 --> 0:34:10.288
<v Speaker 2>this stage, he's trying to put on his big brave

0:34:10.328 --> 0:34:13.687
<v Speaker 2>face or whatever. He comes in and he says, is

0:34:13.728 --> 0:34:16.767
<v Speaker 2>there any wine? And I was like, no. He still

0:34:16.788 --> 0:34:18.748
<v Speaker 2>got wine and pours it out of my glass into

0:34:18.808 --> 0:34:22.888
<v Speaker 2>his own. And Portia's like, what are you doing? And

0:34:22.908 --> 0:34:25.808
<v Speaker 2>he's like, well, there's no wine. And she says, don't

0:34:25.848 --> 0:34:30.357
<v Speaker 2>do that. And at this stage, I'm broken. I have

0:34:30.838 --> 0:34:33.178
<v Speaker 2>pretty much nothing. And I'm really under his control at

0:34:33.198 --> 0:34:34.918
<v Speaker 2>this stage because he'd really done a good number in

0:34:34.938 --> 0:34:38.598
<v Speaker 2>the last month of working me over and the fear

0:34:38.638 --> 0:34:42.698
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't getting money back and the whole thing. And

0:34:43.118 --> 0:34:45.508
<v Speaker 2>he picks up the taser zappy thing from the table

0:34:46.568 --> 0:34:50.547
<v Speaker 2>and says to Portia, what's this? And she said, this

0:34:50.568 --> 0:34:55.168
<v Speaker 2>is my taser. I got it off Temo. He zaps

0:34:55.208 --> 0:34:57.047
<v Speaker 2>it and he goes, oh, that's ridiculous. She goes, do

0:34:57.068 --> 0:34:59.047
<v Speaker 2>you want to go? And he says, no, I do not.

0:34:59.638 --> 0:35:01.518
<v Speaker 2>So he sort of hands it to her, and as

0:35:01.558 --> 0:35:04.277
<v Speaker 2>he turns around, she zaps him on the back. And

0:35:04.778 --> 0:35:06.698
<v Speaker 2>it's not a taser. A taser would put you on

0:35:06.718 --> 0:35:12.047
<v Speaker 2>the ground, right? He spins around, and it is like

0:35:12.178 --> 0:35:17.788
<v Speaker 2>he was shot. His reaction to that was so beyond psychotic.

0:35:18.008 --> 0:35:21.948
<v Speaker 2>You have never seen anything like it. So he's slamming doors,

0:35:22.388 --> 0:35:26.508
<v Speaker 2>calling her a cunt, threatening to have her killed by

0:35:26.548 --> 0:35:30.357
<v Speaker 2>his mafia friends. And he's screaming at me saying, why

0:35:30.378 --> 0:35:32.698
<v Speaker 2>are you laughing? I'm like, I'm not laughing. And I'm

0:35:32.718 --> 0:35:35.458
<v Speaker 2>yelling at Portia going, mate, why are you doing that?

0:35:35.898 --> 0:35:37.698
<v Speaker 2>And also I'm so pushed down by him that I

0:35:37.758 --> 0:35:42.118
<v Speaker 2>couldn't even defend her. And so he leaves. The next

0:35:42.138 --> 0:35:45.578
<v Speaker 2>thing you know, I'm getting these barrage of texts saying

0:35:45.638 --> 0:35:48.908
<v Speaker 2>that cunt just started a war. You wonder why I

0:35:48.948 --> 0:35:52.328
<v Speaker 2>left when you fucking defend her. She has no idea

0:35:52.388 --> 0:35:54.587
<v Speaker 2>who she's messing with and nobody assaults someone like that

0:35:54.628 --> 0:35:57.248
<v Speaker 2>and gets away with it. She's fucked. She's no idea

0:35:57.268 --> 0:36:00.448
<v Speaker 2>what's coming to her. And I'm like, writing these messages saying, please,

0:36:00.468 --> 0:36:02.908
<v Speaker 2>you're scaring me. Like you're scaring me and the kids

0:36:03.658 --> 0:36:06.138
<v Speaker 2>in my head. There you go again, defending a fucking idiot.

0:36:06.458 --> 0:36:08.938
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, I'm not defending what she did. I'm

0:36:08.958 --> 0:36:12.198
<v Speaker 2>saying you're scaring me. Can you stop? Please stop and think.

0:36:12.798 --> 0:36:16.268
<v Speaker 2>I'm there already. Italians or police? What does she want first?

0:36:16.948 --> 0:36:19.468
<v Speaker 2>I'm getting these right. And Portia is in my spare

0:36:19.488 --> 0:36:23.087
<v Speaker 2>room asleep. Like I'm scared because he's doing a lot

0:36:23.108 --> 0:36:26.978
<v Speaker 2>of threatening stuff. So I go into Portia. She's like

0:36:27.138 --> 0:36:29.198
<v Speaker 2>lying in our spare room, nude, pissed as a fart.

0:36:29.608 --> 0:36:31.828
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, dude, get up. You've got to go. She's like,

0:36:32.388 --> 0:36:35.928
<v Speaker 2>what for? I said, because he is threatening your life.

0:36:36.588 --> 0:36:39.547
<v Speaker 2>She's like, oh, like, fuck he will. I am not

0:36:39.608 --> 0:36:41.428
<v Speaker 2>getting out of bed. Do not wake me up again.

0:36:42.628 --> 0:36:46.038
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, oh, my God. Look at the messages. She's like, oh, whatever.

0:36:46.058 --> 0:36:49.638
<v Speaker 2>He's not going to do anything. Next day, Portia gets

0:36:49.678 --> 0:36:51.578
<v Speaker 2>a phone call. He's put an AVO on her and

0:36:51.598 --> 0:36:55.627
<v Speaker 2>he's charging her with assault drugs. She spends the next

0:36:55.688 --> 0:36:59.408
<v Speaker 2>six months and thousands of dollars on a lawyer to

0:36:59.488 --> 0:37:05.667
<v Speaker 2>basically not be charged with assault. I was going away

0:37:05.688 --> 0:37:08.668
<v Speaker 2>with her overseas to the States at the end of

0:37:08.688 --> 0:37:12.348
<v Speaker 2>the year. He said from one of the texts, she

0:37:12.368 --> 0:37:18.398
<v Speaker 2>won't be going because of a conviction. You motherfucker. I

0:37:18.438 --> 0:37:21.458
<v Speaker 2>think the worst part too was the fact that he

0:37:21.478 --> 0:37:23.438
<v Speaker 2>was telling people that I was making it all up.

0:37:24.948 --> 0:37:27.608
<v Speaker 2>He was telling everyone that he'd paid for all of

0:37:27.678 --> 0:37:31.337
<v Speaker 2>our life and it was so bad. So, you know,

0:37:31.358 --> 0:37:35.578
<v Speaker 2>the word was getting around and it came back to

0:37:35.618 --> 0:37:38.358
<v Speaker 2>me through the grapevine, through someone, a friend of someone

0:37:39.238 --> 0:37:41.027
<v Speaker 2>who knew that he had been in contact with a

0:37:41.148 --> 0:37:43.728
<v Speaker 2>particular woman in New Zealand and potentially I should get

0:37:43.748 --> 0:37:49.047
<v Speaker 2>in contact with her. So I did. I get her name.

0:37:50.268 --> 0:37:53.628
<v Speaker 2>She's a very high up person in a very big company.

0:37:55.318 --> 0:37:57.788
<v Speaker 2>And I call the company name to try and find her.

0:37:59.288 --> 0:38:02.668
<v Speaker 2>And it goes to her voicemail. I leave a message.

0:38:04.368 --> 0:38:08.087
<v Speaker 2>She calls me back. And I'm like, can you tell

0:38:08.108 --> 0:38:13.618
<v Speaker 2>me a bit what you know about Simon? And she's like, oh, God.

0:38:14.638 --> 0:38:19.098
<v Speaker 2>So it turns out he'd taken about $ 80, 000 from her

0:38:19.158 --> 0:38:26.038
<v Speaker 2>in 2021 just before me. So when he was living

0:38:26.078 --> 0:38:30.458
<v Speaker 2>in this fancy apartment, she was paying for it. Then

0:38:30.658 --> 0:38:33.238
<v Speaker 2>I went to the police and said, listen, I've got

0:38:33.298 --> 0:38:36.558
<v Speaker 2>two of us who have this story and there's no

0:38:36.598 --> 0:38:40.438
<v Speaker 2>doubt more. And I said, I genuinely think this guy

0:38:40.458 --> 0:38:44.858
<v Speaker 2>just needs to be stopped because he is obtaining finance

0:38:44.958 --> 0:38:48.338
<v Speaker 2>by deception. He's promising that he'll pay you back and

0:38:48.358 --> 0:38:51.528
<v Speaker 2>he never does and he's promising stuff. So I was

0:38:51.698 --> 0:38:56.687
<v Speaker 2>pretty much told by police The police that don't lend

0:38:56.748 --> 0:38:59.488
<v Speaker 2>someone money. And that it's really up to women not

0:38:59.548 --> 0:39:02.188
<v Speaker 2>to be that silly. It moved on in my head

0:39:02.208 --> 0:39:05.567
<v Speaker 2>and I was definitely angry underneath. But like, I'm not

0:39:05.588 --> 0:39:08.118
<v Speaker 2>wasting any more time on you. And then I get

0:39:08.158 --> 0:39:13.258
<v Speaker 2>this phone call from his ex-wife. Their girl's mum. We'd

0:39:13.538 --> 0:39:17.178
<v Speaker 2>been quite friendly since the breakup. Because she'd also been

0:39:18.358 --> 0:39:21.058
<v Speaker 2>treated so poorly by him. And I get the phone call.

0:39:21.318 --> 0:39:24.948
<v Speaker 2>Did you know... that Simon and Sophie had been seeing

0:39:24.988 --> 0:39:30.627
<v Speaker 2>each other for two years. Sophie, the accountant, he would

0:39:30.648 --> 0:39:32.328
<v Speaker 2>go to Sophie's house a lot and Sophie had a

0:39:32.368 --> 0:39:35.658
<v Speaker 2>mum and together they would help Simon a lot with

0:39:35.718 --> 0:39:39.738
<v Speaker 2>his money and his finances. And it was nearly every

0:39:39.828 --> 0:39:42.548
<v Speaker 2>night at one stage. He'd showed me photos of Sophie

0:39:42.588 --> 0:39:45.388
<v Speaker 2>before and she was like this little dumpy brown curly

0:39:45.428 --> 0:39:47.688
<v Speaker 2>haired woman and he said, you don't ever have to

0:39:47.728 --> 0:39:50.348
<v Speaker 2>be threatened by her, mate, because she's like my accountant. Yeah,

0:39:50.368 --> 0:39:52.248
<v Speaker 2>so we'd been split for about six months and I

0:39:52.268 --> 0:39:55.408
<v Speaker 2>get the phone call from his ex-wife and she said,

0:39:56.068 --> 0:39:58.238
<v Speaker 2>they're still seeing each other. I think you should probably

0:39:58.258 --> 0:40:01.797
<v Speaker 2>speak with her. So I get her number and I

0:40:01.838 --> 0:40:05.538
<v Speaker 2>call her and she answers. She's another powerful, intelligent woman.

0:40:07.178 --> 0:40:11.038
<v Speaker 2>And she answers and she's all shaking and I'm like, Hi,

0:40:11.078 --> 0:40:14.898
<v Speaker 2>it's Jess here. We probably should have a talk about Simon.

0:40:15.758 --> 0:40:18.448
<v Speaker 2>She's like, oh my God. And it was vomit worthy,

0:40:18.738 --> 0:40:23.268
<v Speaker 2>her reaction. We met at the pub that afternoon. She

0:40:23.308 --> 0:40:29.857
<v Speaker 2>turned up, shaking, looking nothing like. the picture he'd showed

0:40:29.888 --> 0:40:35.638
<v Speaker 2>me of her. She was gorgeous. And I was like, oh,

0:40:35.958 --> 0:40:39.038
<v Speaker 2>you don't look anything like the Sophie he showed me.

0:40:39.998 --> 0:40:45.258
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, she had lost a ridiculous amount of money

0:40:45.278 --> 0:40:49.098
<v Speaker 2>to him. So basically robbing Peter to pay Paul. He's

0:40:49.138 --> 0:40:53.578
<v Speaker 2>paid for the apartment from the New Zealand woman. Then

0:40:53.618 --> 0:40:56.808
<v Speaker 2>he's moved on between Sophie and myself and he's paying

0:40:56.848 --> 0:40:59.588
<v Speaker 2>for my life with Sophie's money and then even back

0:40:59.658 --> 0:41:02.498
<v Speaker 2>to his life with her, with my money. I sat

0:41:02.518 --> 0:41:04.758
<v Speaker 2>there and started working out dates and times. I went

0:41:04.798 --> 0:41:07.878
<v Speaker 2>on a work trip to Noosa and I said to him, hey,

0:41:08.458 --> 0:41:09.918
<v Speaker 2>will you look after the kids while I'm gone? He's like,

0:41:09.958 --> 0:41:12.578
<v Speaker 2>of course, the day before. I can't, babe. I'm working.

0:41:12.658 --> 0:41:14.318
<v Speaker 2>I've got to go to the Gold Coast. No worries.

0:41:14.818 --> 0:41:21.478
<v Speaker 2>He was in Noosa with Sophie that week at a

0:41:21.518 --> 0:41:27.448
<v Speaker 2>wedding and I'm there for work. I mean, I felt

0:41:27.488 --> 0:41:29.288
<v Speaker 2>a lot more for her because it was so fresh

0:41:29.328 --> 0:41:31.828
<v Speaker 2>for her. Had this happened to me when I'd just

0:41:31.868 --> 0:41:34.198
<v Speaker 2>broken up with him, I would have been like Devo.

0:41:34.378 --> 0:41:37.797
<v Speaker 2>But because I was six months out, he couldn't hurt

0:41:37.838 --> 0:41:40.198
<v Speaker 2>me anymore and I'd got my life together and my

0:41:40.238 --> 0:41:43.158
<v Speaker 2>shit together. That's the worst bit. At least I'd heard

0:41:43.258 --> 0:41:46.678
<v Speaker 2>about her. And I said to Sophie, well, I think

0:41:46.698 --> 0:41:50.898
<v Speaker 2>you need to speak to Jess. And Sophie said, who's Jess?

0:41:51.858 --> 0:41:54.828
<v Speaker 2>So the way he explained me away to her was,

0:41:55.638 --> 0:41:59.147
<v Speaker 2>He was living in a friend's, you know, granny flat

0:41:59.188 --> 0:42:01.888
<v Speaker 2>out the back. Like it must have been a carnage

0:42:01.928 --> 0:42:03.808
<v Speaker 2>way to live. I have no idea how he did it.

0:42:04.408 --> 0:42:07.988
<v Speaker 2>And she's such a, she's a cool chick. And her

0:42:08.028 --> 0:42:12.718
<v Speaker 2>mum was really good too. And he really fucked them

0:42:12.738 --> 0:42:16.797
<v Speaker 2>both over. Same way with me, just loans, loans here,

0:42:16.878 --> 0:42:19.138
<v Speaker 2>loans there, pay her back a bit, loans here, loans there,

0:42:19.178 --> 0:42:22.488
<v Speaker 2>pay her back. When I met her, he was living

0:42:22.528 --> 0:42:23.628
<v Speaker 2>in her mum's apartment.

0:42:24.238 --> 0:42:26.968
<v Speaker 1>Jess had already thought she'd heard it all. But this?

0:42:27.528 --> 0:42:30.108
<v Speaker 1>What more could this man do? How many more secrets

0:42:30.168 --> 0:42:33.107
<v Speaker 1>and how many more women? How much more swindling had

0:42:33.128 --> 0:42:36.068
<v Speaker 1>this guy done? She tried again to go to police,

0:42:36.368 --> 0:42:38.357
<v Speaker 1>saying there were now three women that she knew of.

0:42:38.938 --> 0:42:40.538
<v Speaker 1>But she got the same response.

0:42:41.098 --> 0:42:43.938
<v Speaker 2>I said to them, so can I do anything here?

0:42:43.958 --> 0:42:45.758
<v Speaker 2>Do I get a scam watch? What do I do?

0:42:46.718 --> 0:42:49.908
<v Speaker 2>And she said to me, I said, because this man

0:42:49.968 --> 0:42:52.628
<v Speaker 2>is going to keep going. And she said, well, yeah,

0:42:52.688 --> 0:42:57.678
<v Speaker 2>we can't really. without actual proof or something. Because I said,

0:42:57.698 --> 0:43:01.918
<v Speaker 2>I've got, I had a full 35 page, thanks to Chachamiti,

0:43:02.278 --> 0:43:05.398
<v Speaker 2>dossier on him, written up beautifully with everything, all of

0:43:05.418 --> 0:43:08.238
<v Speaker 2>our text messages, all the transactions. I wasn't walking and going,

0:43:08.278 --> 0:43:09.508
<v Speaker 2>oh my God, I gave this guy money, he didn't

0:43:09.528 --> 0:43:14.107
<v Speaker 2>pay me back. It was really serious brief that I had.

0:43:15.028 --> 0:43:16.808
<v Speaker 2>And they said, no, we're not passing it to fraud.

0:43:17.328 --> 0:43:20.708
<v Speaker 2>Basically bad luck. And I said, but he's going to

0:43:20.748 --> 0:43:24.527
<v Speaker 2>keep going. And she said, well, We can't really stop

0:43:24.568 --> 0:43:27.548
<v Speaker 2>women lending someone money. It's kind of on you guys.

0:43:28.468 --> 0:43:31.128
<v Speaker 2>I thought at that time I could potentially go civilly

0:43:31.188 --> 0:43:35.378
<v Speaker 2>with him or I could do mediation. We did try that.

0:43:35.678 --> 0:43:38.038
<v Speaker 2>That didn't work. So I had to go to court

0:43:38.478 --> 0:43:42.418
<v Speaker 2>because he'd left the rent. And so there was $ 40, 000

0:43:41.898 --> 0:43:46.777
<v Speaker 2>owing on it. And I basically had to pay that,

0:43:46.818 --> 0:43:49.078
<v Speaker 2>but I was refusing to pay the last 10, which

0:43:49.118 --> 0:43:54.027
<v Speaker 2>was my bond. So I was like, no, like, come on,

0:43:54.088 --> 0:43:57.408
<v Speaker 2>enough is enough. And standing in court and the judge

0:43:57.768 --> 0:44:02.428
<v Speaker 2>basically says, I'm sorry, because it's in both of your names,

0:44:02.468 --> 0:44:05.087
<v Speaker 2>you will have to pay if he's not around. And

0:44:05.148 --> 0:44:09.338
<v Speaker 2>in the end, the mediation person said, this is a

0:44:09.378 --> 0:44:11.558
<v Speaker 2>bit of a lost cause. He's not coming back to

0:44:11.598 --> 0:44:15.558
<v Speaker 2>us now. They didn't even care. That was the terrible

0:44:15.578 --> 0:44:18.578
<v Speaker 2>bit too. Like no one would listen. No one cared.

0:44:19.058 --> 0:44:21.377
<v Speaker 2>And you know what? It is all on us, right? Like, yep, sure.

0:44:21.418 --> 0:44:23.488
<v Speaker 2>Don't lend someone money to But when you're living with

0:44:23.508 --> 0:44:25.948
<v Speaker 2>someone for three years, it's very different. I didn't just

0:44:26.008 --> 0:44:28.778
<v Speaker 2>meet this guy, throw him a hundred grand after a week.

0:44:29.478 --> 0:44:33.418
<v Speaker 2>This is a three-year intense, beautiful relationship with our families involved.

0:44:34.638 --> 0:44:39.857
<v Speaker 2>This is the hardest question for me to answer and

0:44:39.878 --> 0:44:45.128
<v Speaker 2>to come to terms with because whilst I'm sure I

0:44:45.168 --> 0:44:51.027
<v Speaker 2>was a mark from the start, I do believe that

0:44:51.048 --> 0:44:54.698
<v Speaker 2>he may have accidentally fallen in love with me or

0:44:54.718 --> 0:44:59.718
<v Speaker 2>fallen for me because in going through all of our

0:44:59.818 --> 0:45:02.538
<v Speaker 2>videos and stuff that I've looked at, you know, that's

0:45:02.598 --> 0:45:06.058
<v Speaker 2>three years of relationship and the way he looked after

0:45:06.118 --> 0:45:08.698
<v Speaker 2>my kids and treated my kids. I don't know how

0:45:09.058 --> 0:45:14.658
<v Speaker 2>you can fake all of that. Maybe you can, but

0:45:14.698 --> 0:45:19.118
<v Speaker 2>I doubt it. Even though like I, sit here and

0:45:19.158 --> 0:45:21.178
<v Speaker 2>I think about him now and, you know, my blood

0:45:21.218 --> 0:45:26.718
<v Speaker 2>boils and I'm like, I hope you're unhappy wherever you are,

0:45:27.658 --> 0:45:30.928
<v Speaker 2>but not for one minute do I regret what we

0:45:30.988 --> 0:45:34.788
<v Speaker 2>did have for those few years. We had so much

0:45:34.848 --> 0:45:37.208
<v Speaker 2>fucking fun. We had the parties and we had the

0:45:37.288 --> 0:45:40.107
<v Speaker 2>house and the kids were happy and there was so

0:45:40.148 --> 0:45:44.928
<v Speaker 2>much beauty in that and so much safety and security, weirdly.

0:45:45.758 --> 0:45:52.048
<v Speaker 2>I felt amazing. And strong and like I'd finally crossed

0:45:52.108 --> 0:45:55.468
<v Speaker 2>to the other side of happy. I have no shame

0:45:55.508 --> 0:45:58.988
<v Speaker 2>around this. I've had a great life. I will keep

0:45:59.048 --> 0:46:00.938
<v Speaker 2>going and having a great life. This is just part

0:46:00.958 --> 0:46:07.218
<v Speaker 2>of my story. But what I don't like is until

0:46:07.258 --> 0:46:11.118
<v Speaker 2>you've been there, you've got no idea. That's the crux

0:46:11.158 --> 0:46:17.348
<v Speaker 2>of it. That's the truth. I still say there was

0:46:17.408 --> 0:46:20.857
<v Speaker 2>love there. It's not all just con. I mean, I'm

0:46:20.988 --> 0:46:23.108
<v Speaker 2>sure that I'm a mark and all that stuff and

0:46:23.148 --> 0:46:25.567
<v Speaker 2>everyone can sit around and say, oh, my God, this

0:46:25.588 --> 0:46:28.698
<v Speaker 2>chick is crazy. Red flags, red flags. Like, shut up.

0:46:29.508 --> 0:46:33.088
<v Speaker 2>Until you've been in it, even con men are still

0:46:33.968 --> 0:46:43.047
<v Speaker 2>feeling what they're feeling. He is a monster. There's no

0:46:43.108 --> 0:46:46.148
<v Speaker 2>other way to describe him. Doesn't really talk to his

0:46:46.188 --> 0:46:48.688
<v Speaker 2>kids either. They won't talk to him. He's just a

0:46:48.748 --> 0:46:53.388
<v Speaker 2>sad monster. He is apparently living in the Gold Coast,

0:46:53.488 --> 0:46:55.788
<v Speaker 2>and that is all I know. Part of me wants

0:46:55.828 --> 0:46:59.628
<v Speaker 2>to get a private investigator and find him. Part of

0:46:59.668 --> 0:47:03.458
<v Speaker 2>me is scared of him. Part of me wants to

0:47:03.538 --> 0:47:08.058
<v Speaker 2>warn women. Part of me wants to move on. But

0:47:08.078 --> 0:47:10.178
<v Speaker 2>also part of me just laughs at the entire thing too,

0:47:10.358 --> 0:47:15.908
<v Speaker 2>because I'm just like, you know, this is a bizarre experience.

0:47:16.998 --> 0:47:20.678
<v Speaker 2>Also then potentially get people to help me find him

0:47:21.598 --> 0:47:23.578
<v Speaker 2>and take him down because clearly the police won't do

0:47:23.598 --> 0:47:25.718
<v Speaker 2>anything about it. And the woman in New Zealand had

0:47:25.738 --> 0:47:28.417
<v Speaker 2>a whole criminal case against him and she dropped it too.

0:47:28.458 --> 0:47:30.877
<v Speaker 2>She couldn't. It was too hard. Like there is no

0:47:30.938 --> 0:47:34.638
<v Speaker 2>support out there. And you get a whole lot of

0:47:34.678 --> 0:47:37.018
<v Speaker 2>judgment too, like, no way, man, I wouldn't have fought

0:47:37.038 --> 0:47:40.528
<v Speaker 2>for that. And you might not. Well, don't you? Stay

0:47:40.548 --> 0:47:43.248
<v Speaker 2>in your cave then. There's this part of me that

0:47:44.028 --> 0:47:47.658
<v Speaker 2>just desperate to, I would love to see more of

0:47:47.738 --> 0:47:51.027
<v Speaker 2>a community for women around this because when you go

0:47:51.088 --> 0:47:52.808
<v Speaker 2>on Sis, Is This Your Man or when you listen

0:47:52.848 --> 0:47:56.428
<v Speaker 2>to this podcast here and when I talk to other people,

0:47:56.448 --> 0:47:57.908
<v Speaker 2>there are so many people who have been through this

0:47:58.448 --> 0:48:00.768
<v Speaker 2>and there's nowhere to go. You can't get these guys.

0:48:01.808 --> 0:48:03.788
<v Speaker 2>And the only way to really beat a narcissist is

0:48:03.848 --> 0:48:06.777
<v Speaker 2>to embarrass them. Sometimes I get a little bit scared,

0:48:06.888 --> 0:48:09.598
<v Speaker 2>but then I'm like, actually, no, that's what he's done

0:48:09.698 --> 0:48:12.418
<v Speaker 2>to you. That's what he's done. That's what they do

0:48:12.458 --> 0:48:15.078
<v Speaker 2>to women. They're bloody good at what they do. So

0:48:15.118 --> 0:48:18.297
<v Speaker 2>I think For women out there who are looking at

0:48:18.338 --> 0:48:21.258
<v Speaker 2>the flags early on and you know in your gut,

0:48:21.758 --> 0:48:23.837
<v Speaker 2>you feel it's not quite right and you even look

0:48:23.858 --> 0:48:26.777
<v Speaker 2>at some of your friends' faces, I promise you it

0:48:27.298 --> 0:48:31.848
<v Speaker 2>is so much easier to leave now than it is later.

0:48:32.968 --> 0:48:37.708
<v Speaker 2>And don't be afraid of financial fallout now because it's

0:48:37.888 --> 0:48:40.668
<v Speaker 2>just going to get worse and they're never going to

0:48:40.728 --> 0:48:46.018
<v Speaker 2>pay you back ever, ever, ever. So here I am now.

0:48:46.518 --> 0:48:49.698
<v Speaker 2>I've got a great new job. I'm really happy. I'm

0:48:49.798 --> 0:48:53.098
<v Speaker 2>really financially secure now. Thanks to myself, not even from

0:48:53.158 --> 0:48:56.738
<v Speaker 2>my settlement with my marriage. Like I'm actually, I'm building

0:48:56.778 --> 0:48:59.268
<v Speaker 2>my life up myself. And that's what all this has

0:48:59.288 --> 0:49:02.088
<v Speaker 2>taught me, man. Life is like, it's like the matrix.

0:49:02.228 --> 0:49:05.088
<v Speaker 2>You know, you can, I can spend my whole life

0:49:05.268 --> 0:49:08.468
<v Speaker 2>looking in my rear view mirror at all this stuff

0:49:08.488 --> 0:49:10.218
<v Speaker 2>that happened, but I was part of it. I was

0:49:10.258 --> 0:49:14.038
<v Speaker 2>complicit in all of it. And so I clearly liked drama.

0:49:15.018 --> 0:49:18.088
<v Speaker 2>And now I'm not looking for drama. I'm just looking

0:49:21.068 --> 0:49:24.068
<v Speaker 2>to be a lot calmer, which is a lot more boring,

0:49:24.108 --> 0:49:27.958
<v Speaker 2>mind you. Like less dinner party stories. I take that

0:49:28.858 --> 0:49:33.498
<v Speaker 2>there was an element of performance in on both of

0:49:33.598 --> 0:49:38.618
<v Speaker 2>our sides that performative love so that when you know

0:49:38.678 --> 0:49:41.528
<v Speaker 2>something is going wrong you fake it till you make

0:49:41.588 --> 0:49:45.468
<v Speaker 2>it and I'll never ever do that again bring on

0:49:45.508 --> 0:49:47.988
<v Speaker 2>the love like It's what makes us all get up

0:49:48.028 --> 0:49:50.868
<v Speaker 2>in the morning, right? And if it's not with a partner,

0:49:51.248 --> 0:49:53.358
<v Speaker 2>it's with yourself. So at the moment, I'm getting up

0:49:53.408 --> 0:49:58.098
<v Speaker 2>every morning for myself. My girls are incredible. I've raised

0:49:58.138 --> 0:50:02.277
<v Speaker 2>two really strong, epic, powerful young women. We're a little

0:50:02.298 --> 0:50:08.878
<v Speaker 2>bit jaded, but my friends are incredible. My family is beautiful.

0:50:10.078 --> 0:50:12.728
<v Speaker 2>And that's all that I need at the moment. My

0:50:12.768 --> 0:50:16.168
<v Speaker 2>future is looking bright and it's all built by me.

0:50:17.108 --> 0:50:19.158
<v Speaker 2>No one else. That's what I love the most.

0:50:37.168 --> 0:50:39.968
<v Speaker 1>Everyone Has an Ex is a Minty Media production and

0:50:40.008 --> 0:50:42.948
<v Speaker 1>proudly part of the Mamma Mia Network. This episode was

0:50:43.028 --> 0:50:45.948
<v Speaker 1>written and narrated by me, Georgia Love, and produced by

0:50:45.988 --> 0:50:48.548
<v Speaker 1>Linda Scott. If you have a story you'd like to share,

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<v Speaker 1>email everyonehasanx at mintymedia.com.au. You can support us by following

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<v Speaker 1>the show in your favourite podcast app and leaving a

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<v Speaker 1>five-star rating and review. We'll see you for the next one.