WEBVTT - What Is ‘Grey Area Drinking’... And Are You Doing It? 0:00:10.365 --> 0:00:13.125 You're listening to a Mother Mea podcast. 0:00:13.885 --> 0:00:16.885 Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.885 --> 0:00:18.525 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:18.765 --> 0:00:19.245 Hey there. 0:00:19.285 --> 0:00:22.405 Before we start today's episode, I just want to say 0:00:22.605 --> 0:00:25.685 that you are going to be hearing from some wonderful 0:00:25.725 --> 0:00:28.245 Mama Mea voices over the next few weeks as I 0:00:28.365 --> 0:00:32.005 work on another project. Hollyway and wright Claire Stevens, a 0:00:32.125 --> 0:00:35.205 Nama Brown, who is the executive producer of this show, 0:00:35.365 --> 0:00:37.525 are all going to be sitting in my chair for 0:00:37.565 --> 0:00:41.325 a few weeks and doing the same wonderful interviews that 0:00:41.365 --> 0:00:43.485 you know and love from No Filter. There are some 0:00:43.525 --> 0:00:46.925 great conversations coming your way about red and green flags 0:00:46.925 --> 0:00:52.925 in relationships, sex and porn, addiction, escaping from a religious cult, narcissism, sobriety, 0:00:53.445 --> 0:00:55.645 and more. You'll be hearing from me soon. 0:00:56.485 --> 0:00:56.845 Enjoy. 0:00:57.845 --> 0:01:01.325 I went to a friend's fortieth I got really pissed 0:01:01.765 --> 0:01:04.605 and went outside for a cigarette because when I drank, 0:01:04.685 --> 0:01:08.005 I smoked, I was wearing high heels, which as a 0:01:08.085 --> 0:01:10.685 mum you don't do very often more. And I crouched 0:01:10.685 --> 0:01:13.845 down to put out my cigarette, was pissed and sway 0:01:13.885 --> 0:01:16.845 and I fell forward, but I didn't have any reflexes. 0:01:16.925 --> 0:01:19.765 And so I landed face first onto a concrete driveway 0:01:20.365 --> 0:01:23.845 and cut my lip open, cut my nose, blood everywhere, 0:01:24.325 --> 0:01:26.285 and my friend took me home and put me to bed, 0:01:27.165 --> 0:01:29.565 and I woke up the next morning to scarlet. My 0:01:29.685 --> 0:01:32.285 daughter was five at the time, standing beside my bed, 0:01:32.365 --> 0:01:36.645 and she said, Mummy, Mummy, what happened to your face? 0:01:38.405 --> 0:01:42.325 And Oh, Holly, in that moment, I just felt such shame, 0:01:42.525 --> 0:01:44.885 such disgust, such self loathing. 0:01:48.925 --> 0:01:51.685 So, Mama, Maya, you're listening to No Filter, and I'm 0:01:51.805 --> 0:01:55.245 Holly Wainwright sitting in for mea Friedman, and I am 0:01:55.325 --> 0:01:58.765 welcoming you back to regular programming. I hope that you've 0:01:58.845 --> 0:02:02.165 enjoyed our hot pod summer. But now we are off 0:02:02.285 --> 0:02:05.045 sun lounger and we are back at work. How are 0:02:05.125 --> 0:02:08.725 you going so far in twenty twenty five? Did you 0:02:08.805 --> 0:02:12.725 survive that party season, that holiday season? Did you choose 0:02:12.765 --> 0:02:15.045 a word of the year that might lead you into 0:02:15.085 --> 0:02:18.805 a sober, curious place. Perhaps you're one of the many 0:02:18.845 --> 0:02:22.485 people who chose to get through the holidays sober, or 0:02:22.525 --> 0:02:25.765 maybe you're one of the people who didn't and woke 0:02:25.845 --> 0:02:29.045 up after Christmas and New Year and all that January 0:02:29.205 --> 0:02:31.645 fun going, You know what, I really need to address 0:02:31.685 --> 0:02:35.605 my drinking wherever you might be on that spectrum from 0:02:35.645 --> 0:02:39.445 mocktail to cocktails at five, this conversation is for you 0:02:39.605 --> 0:02:42.485 because my guest is author and health and well being 0:02:42.565 --> 0:02:46.205 coach Sarah russ Batch, and she's lived it all. Sarah's 0:02:46.245 --> 0:02:49.325 written a book called Beyond Booze, How to Create a 0:02:49.405 --> 0:02:53.565 Life you Love Alcohol Free, because she has lived through 0:02:53.685 --> 0:02:57.125 her own what she describes as a dysfunctional relationship with alcohol. 0:02:57.485 --> 0:02:59.445 But she's at great pains to point out you don't 0:02:59.445 --> 0:03:02.245 have to be hitting rock bottom to question your relationship 0:03:02.605 --> 0:03:05.605 with drink. She's not a preacher, She's not all luxury 0:03:05.645 --> 0:03:07.885 about these things. She's not here to judge you or 0:03:07.925 --> 0:03:10.445 how much you are or aren't drinking. She just wants 0:03:10.525 --> 0:03:13.045 to talk to us about something that she calls gray 0:03:13.165 --> 0:03:16.165 area drinking and to let us know that if you're 0:03:16.205 --> 0:03:19.765 thinking that you would like to reconsider booze, but you 0:03:19.885 --> 0:03:21.805 don't know quite what life would be like on the 0:03:21.845 --> 0:03:24.405 other side, well, she wants to tell you that it's 0:03:24.445 --> 0:03:28.925 pretty good. Here's Sarah. Sarah, I heard that when you 0:03:29.405 --> 0:03:34.125 were drinking, so before you gave up drinking, entirely. You 0:03:34.445 --> 0:03:39.485 had rules around alcohol, and they were, I don't drink Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, 0:03:40.005 --> 0:03:43.085 I don't drink before five pm. I don't drink white 0:03:43.085 --> 0:03:46.445 wine on an empty stomach. Now those rules around alcohol 0:03:46.565 --> 0:03:50.965 sound very sensible to me, But you say that actually 0:03:51.605 --> 0:03:55.925 setting rules like that about alcohol can be a red flag. 0:03:56.045 --> 0:03:56.725 Tell me why. 0:03:57.405 --> 0:03:59.405 So it's really important to put this into context. And 0:03:59.445 --> 0:04:01.485 I think there are some people who have their set 0:04:01.565 --> 0:04:03.845 rules and that just those are the rules that they 0:04:03.885 --> 0:04:05.965 live by, and that's that. But I think that for 0:04:06.045 --> 0:04:08.085 a lot of people who fall into the gray area 0:04:08.205 --> 0:04:12.685 drinking category, we have rules around our drinking then, and 0:04:12.725 --> 0:04:16.245 they really really govern our thoughts around alcohol. We're thinking 0:04:16.285 --> 0:04:18.685 about it a lot, and then we often find ways 0:04:18.725 --> 0:04:21.605 to justify why we can break those rules. So I 0:04:21.685 --> 0:04:25.165 lived with this constant chatter in my head where it 0:04:25.205 --> 0:04:27.005 was like, Oh, I don't drink Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, But 0:04:27.045 --> 0:04:29.125 it is Wednesday, and I am seeing my friend tonight, 0:04:29.165 --> 0:04:30.765 so at least I'm not drinking at home, So maybe 0:04:30.765 --> 0:04:32.165 I could have a drink tonight, and then I won't 0:04:32.205 --> 0:04:34.165 drink tomorrow because I'm staying home tomorrow, so I could 0:04:34.205 --> 0:04:36.405 have Thursday's drink on Wednesday. I won't drink on Thursday, 0:04:36.405 --> 0:04:38.325 and then my units are all as they should be. 0:04:38.725 --> 0:04:42.405 And there was this constant negotiation, this constant chatter, whereas 0:04:42.445 --> 0:04:45.565 people who are not gray area drinkers, they don't have 0:04:45.605 --> 0:04:47.845 that chatter, Holly, because they're just like, I fancy a 0:04:47.885 --> 0:04:49.925 drink and I'll have a drink. I don't fancy a drink, 0:04:49.965 --> 0:04:51.485 and I'm not going to have a drink, And that 0:04:51.645 --> 0:04:51.965 is it. 0:04:52.685 --> 0:04:56.205 That is so interesting, I think, and leads us obviously 0:04:56.365 --> 0:04:58.925 to the question and the main point of a lot 0:04:58.965 --> 0:05:03.085 of your work, which is gray area drinking. So explain 0:05:03.205 --> 0:05:06.525 to me what the gray area drinker is, because obviously 0:05:06.565 --> 0:05:11.045 I think we'd all be familiar with what we problematic drinking, 0:05:11.485 --> 0:05:13.925 but where that line is, we don't know what's a 0:05:14.045 --> 0:05:15.285 gray area drinker. 0:05:15.525 --> 0:05:18.525 So a gray area drinker sits in between the space 0:05:18.845 --> 0:05:23.365 of very severe problematic drinking, so someone who has physical 0:05:23.405 --> 0:05:26.645 dependency on alcohol and needs to have medical support to 0:05:26.685 --> 0:05:29.445 withdraw from alcohol, So someone who might be a ten 0:05:29.485 --> 0:05:31.325 out of ten on a scale of one to ten 0:05:31.925 --> 0:05:34.445 and the other extreme being the one, so someone who 0:05:34.445 --> 0:05:36.965 doesn't drink, or someone who has a glass of champagne 0:05:36.965 --> 0:05:39.325 at a wedding once a year, and that's their only 0:05:39.925 --> 0:05:42.845 use of alcohol. Gray area drinking is what's in the middle. 0:05:43.365 --> 0:05:45.485 So we've passed the point of being a take it 0:05:45.565 --> 0:05:49.645 or leave it drinker, but we're not reaching or meeting 0:05:49.725 --> 0:05:54.365 the criteria for physical dependence on alcohol. We probably don't 0:05:54.445 --> 0:05:58.565 drink every single day. We can take short breaks from alcohol. 0:05:59.045 --> 0:06:03.605 We don't meet that stereotypical definition of an alcoholic that 0:06:03.685 --> 0:06:06.525 people have of Oh, if you're an alcoholic, you're drinking 0:06:06.525 --> 0:06:08.845 in the morning, you're drinking every day. You've lost your job, 0:06:08.885 --> 0:06:11.165 you've lost relationship, you've lost your home. You're sitting on 0:06:11.205 --> 0:06:13.165 a park bench drinking out of a brown paper bag 0:06:13.205 --> 0:06:16.165 all day. Gray area drinkers are in that middle. I 0:06:16.205 --> 0:06:20.325 would say about a three or a four to maybe 0:06:20.365 --> 0:06:23.245 a seven, seven and a half eight on that scale 0:06:23.285 --> 0:06:26.245 would be gray area drinkers. And Holly, it's estimated two 0:06:26.405 --> 0:06:29.165 billion people across the world sit in the gray area. 0:06:29.245 --> 0:06:30.845 Because I don't know about you, but I don't know 0:06:30.885 --> 0:06:32.965 many people that are either at the ten out of 0:06:32.965 --> 0:06:34.765 ten or the one out of ten. Most people are 0:06:34.805 --> 0:06:35.925 sitting somewhere in the middle. 0:06:37.325 --> 0:06:40.445 And that was you, right, So to get to a 0:06:40.485 --> 0:06:43.405 little bit of why this has become such a big 0:06:43.445 --> 0:06:47.165 part of your life. You can't obviously ignore your story 0:06:47.205 --> 0:06:50.765 of gray area drinking. Can you tell me a little 0:06:50.765 --> 0:06:53.845 bit about your relationship with alcohol and how it began. 0:06:54.045 --> 0:06:56.925 You and I are both originally from England, as I'm 0:06:56.965 --> 0:07:00.605 sure listeners can tell by our voices and we I 0:07:00.645 --> 0:07:03.645 think it's quite fair to say that England and with 0:07:03.725 --> 0:07:07.045 similar age, we probably both grew up in a drinking culture, 0:07:07.245 --> 0:07:12.285 right and Anglo Australia is also strong on his drinking 0:07:12.405 --> 0:07:15.285 culture and it can often feel like, well, this is 0:07:15.325 --> 0:07:18.165 just what we do. Can you tell me a bit 0:07:18.205 --> 0:07:20.645 about your experiences with alcohol? 0:07:21.085 --> 0:07:24.445 So I started drinking at fourteen. That was quite standard 0:07:24.445 --> 0:07:26.045 for where I grew up in the North of England, 0:07:26.045 --> 0:07:26.645 in Manchester. 0:07:27.085 --> 0:07:32.085 My parents I'm from Manchester too. We were probably park drinking, 0:07:32.285 --> 0:07:34.165 not that far from each other at some point. 0:07:34.165 --> 0:07:37.445 We're probably passed like one of the local roller rinks. 0:07:37.925 --> 0:07:41.485 So yeah, that was my initiation into alcohol, and I 0:07:41.485 --> 0:07:43.645 think prior to that, you know, looking back, mum and 0:07:43.765 --> 0:07:47.125 dad had a very active social life. So mom and 0:07:47.245 --> 0:07:49.605 dad often had dinner parties. And I grew up in 0:07:49.605 --> 0:07:51.965 Scotland before we moved to Manchester, when I was thirteen, 0:07:52.005 --> 0:07:54.885 So there was often parties with men drunken, men in 0:07:54.965 --> 0:07:58.885 kilts wandering around my house like pissed and happy and laughing. 0:07:59.045 --> 0:08:02.125 And little Sarah grew up with this very strong, ingrained 0:08:02.125 --> 0:08:05.005 belief from a very young age that what adults do 0:08:05.125 --> 0:08:08.205 to have fun is get pissed and drink alcohol. And 0:08:08.285 --> 0:08:10.325 that was what I saw, that was what I witnessed. 0:08:10.325 --> 0:08:13.005 So for me growing up, it was never a case 0:08:13.045 --> 0:08:16.045 of if I would drink, it was when I would drink. 0:08:16.445 --> 0:08:18.925 And moving from Scotland to England at thirteen was a 0:08:18.965 --> 0:08:20.965 really difficult move to do. I had a very strong 0:08:21.005 --> 0:08:23.285 Scottish accent, I was a bit overweight, I had a 0:08:23.365 --> 0:08:27.365 terrible perm. We moved from a really standard high school 0:08:27.405 --> 0:08:29.925 where there was no uniform to a very posh all 0:08:29.925 --> 0:08:32.365 girls school where the girls were playing lacrosse and hockey, 0:08:32.405 --> 0:08:35.205 and I felt like I stuck out like a sore thumb. 0:08:35.365 --> 0:08:37.445 So at fourteen, when we went down the park and 0:08:37.485 --> 0:08:40.405 got pissed on our diamond white and old English cider 0:08:40.445 --> 0:08:43.765 and Tenants super or whatever we could concoct in our parents' 0:08:43.805 --> 0:08:47.525 drinks cabinets in the soda stream bottles, it was music 0:08:47.605 --> 0:08:50.445 to my ears getting drunk with other girls because it 0:08:50.485 --> 0:08:52.725 was the first time I felt like I fitted in. 0:08:53.325 --> 0:08:57.085 I started getting this positive feedback. You're so fun when 0:08:57.125 --> 0:09:00.965 you're drunk, You're hilarious when you're drunk. So when you 0:09:01.045 --> 0:09:04.845 start getting that, you start to create this identity in 0:09:04.885 --> 0:09:07.805 your mind of well, people really like me when I'm 0:09:07.885 --> 0:09:12.405 drinking party girl. I'm the person that gets the party going, 0:09:12.605 --> 0:09:16.165 and that became my identity. Then for years and years, 0:09:16.205 --> 0:09:18.845 went to university, moved to London. My first job in 0:09:18.885 --> 0:09:22.005 London was working in recruitment, where the fourth stage of 0:09:22.005 --> 0:09:25.045 the interview process was doing shots of sambuca to see 0:09:25.045 --> 0:09:26.485 how well you could handle your boots. 0:09:27.285 --> 0:09:27.925 Oh my god. 0:09:28.005 --> 0:09:30.445 Right, So this was the nineteen nineties in London. 0:09:30.565 --> 0:09:34.565 Yeah, it's not unfamiliar to me. I was, yeah going 0:09:34.605 --> 0:09:36.485 to I mean, I don't know if the culture is 0:09:36.525 --> 0:09:38.845 still the same now, but certainly in England in the 0:09:38.925 --> 0:09:42.125 nineties and the noughdies, going to the pub after work 0:09:42.285 --> 0:09:44.805 was just a standard thing and at lunch time after 0:09:45.005 --> 0:09:47.485 and it was how you bonded. It was how you 0:09:47.645 --> 0:09:50.365 made your friends. It was the living room that you 0:09:50.405 --> 0:09:53.605 all gathered in like it was one hundred percent and 0:09:53.765 --> 0:09:56.245 alcohol focused. Experience. 0:09:56.285 --> 0:09:58.725 Absolutely, and you know, we've also got to remember this 0:09:58.845 --> 0:10:00.725 was a time where there were real there was a 0:10:00.725 --> 0:10:04.205 real shift in femininity and in female girl power. We 0:10:04.285 --> 0:10:06.325 had the Spice girls, we had sex in the city. 0:10:06.405 --> 0:10:08.965 We had women kind of going, we can get paced, 0:10:09.005 --> 0:10:11.125 we can match the lad's pipe for pint down the 0:10:11.165 --> 0:10:14.485 student union. We're making our own money. We don't need 0:10:14.525 --> 0:10:17.005 a man to buy us a single drink for the night. 0:10:17.045 --> 0:10:19.045 We'll go and get wrecked with our girlfriends and have 0:10:19.085 --> 0:10:21.525 one night stands and do all the things. Because that 0:10:21.645 --> 0:10:23.765 was that era that we were living in at the time, 0:10:23.845 --> 0:10:27.645 and it was really hedonistic and in many ways it 0:10:27.685 --> 0:10:31.805 was absolutely amazing. But it was also problematic, I think, 0:10:31.805 --> 0:10:33.845 and that's why we do have a generation of now 0:10:33.885 --> 0:10:36.525 women in their forties and fifties who have developed very 0:10:36.565 --> 0:10:41.485 dysfunctional relationships with alcohol, because it was kind of ingrained 0:10:41.485 --> 0:10:44.485 in us from that age that alcohol was just a 0:10:44.565 --> 0:10:48.045 part of our life. It wasn't problematic. No one looked 0:10:48.085 --> 0:10:50.365 at you and went, oh, she's drinking a lot, because 0:10:50.365 --> 0:10:52.725 you just drank like everyone else around you. It was 0:10:52.845 --> 0:10:53.845 just very standard. 0:10:54.005 --> 0:10:56.765 When did you start to question your alcohol use? 0:10:57.285 --> 0:11:01.085 Honestly, not until my forties right. 0:11:01.205 --> 0:11:04.245 So that's a long time, right, and there's no judgment 0:11:04.245 --> 0:11:06.325 in this sentence. I'm the same. I know many people 0:11:06.325 --> 0:11:09.245 who are. So we basically start drinking in our teens 0:11:09.565 --> 0:11:14.565 early is teens, and we're drinking pretty solidly, really pregnancies off, 0:11:14.645 --> 0:11:18.725 perhaps the odd feb Fast or whatever, and then we're 0:11:18.765 --> 0:11:23.405 here in our forties and beyond, and that's when you're like, oh, 0:11:23.445 --> 0:11:25.965 and what began to make you question? 0:11:26.165 --> 0:11:29.605 Yeah. So I'd always thought, oh, I'm a bigger drinker 0:11:29.645 --> 0:11:31.925 than other people, but actually saw that as a positive 0:11:32.325 --> 0:11:35.285 rather than a negative. I had a big capacity for alcohol. 0:11:35.365 --> 0:11:37.685 I didn't feel hung over the next day, lying in 0:11:37.725 --> 0:11:39.765 bed vomiting like some of my friends would be. I 0:11:39.845 --> 0:11:41.645 was like, right, come on, let's get going. I who 0:11:41.685 --> 0:11:43.965 was hair of the dog type thing. And then we 0:11:44.005 --> 0:11:46.325 moved to Australia and I had my kids some very 0:11:46.405 --> 0:11:49.165 quick succession, and that was when alcohol went from being 0:11:49.245 --> 0:11:52.725 something I did to socialize to being something I did 0:11:53.365 --> 0:11:56.565 as a self soooth it became something that was like, 0:11:56.685 --> 0:11:59.325 I was really lonely, I was really homesick. We'd moved 0:11:59.325 --> 0:12:01.365 to the other side of the world. I wasn't working 0:12:01.445 --> 0:12:03.005 for the first time in my life, and I'd got 0:12:03.045 --> 0:12:05.605 a huge sense of identity and achievement for my career 0:12:05.645 --> 0:12:08.245 in London. I was pure and carrots, I was going 0:12:08.285 --> 0:12:12.845 to Baby Ryan time. I was desperately lonely, and alcohol 0:12:12.965 --> 0:12:15.845 then became something to look forward to at that five 0:12:15.965 --> 0:12:18.205 six o'clock when it was you know, witching, how I 0:12:18.245 --> 0:12:20.685 have a glass of wine. And this coincided with mummy 0:12:20.725 --> 0:12:23.685 wine culture, you know, all of that marketing that started 0:12:23.685 --> 0:12:27.045 to happen for young mums around alcohol. And then it 0:12:27.085 --> 0:12:30.045 was after my in my early forties, I just really 0:12:30.085 --> 0:12:33.365 started to notice the impact that alcohol was having. I 0:12:33.365 --> 0:12:36.085 couldn't bounce back like I used to. Even just a 0:12:36.125 --> 0:12:38.845 couple of glasses of wine was really impacting my sleep, 0:12:38.885 --> 0:12:41.165 and I was waking at three am. I started to 0:12:41.165 --> 0:12:43.605 have really bad anxiety that I'd never had in my 0:12:43.645 --> 0:12:46.485 life before, had never been that person that had anxiety. 0:12:46.485 --> 0:12:48.285 And I remember going to my doctor and I was 0:12:48.405 --> 0:12:50.405 crying and I was a mess, and I said to her, 0:12:51.605 --> 0:12:53.845 I was shadow of myself. I don't know what's going 0:12:53.845 --> 0:12:56.645 on with me. And at no point did she say 0:12:56.645 --> 0:12:58.445 to me how much are you drinking? That the question 0:12:58.525 --> 0:13:02.125 around alcohol didn't even come up. And yeah, I was 0:13:02.165 --> 0:13:05.405 just given a prescription for anti anxiety meds and told 0:13:05.485 --> 0:13:07.765 that I was just managing a lot. There was a 0:13:07.765 --> 0:13:09.285 lot going on and these would help me. 0:13:10.165 --> 0:13:13.525 Well, there's to just put a pause in there. There 0:13:13.645 --> 0:13:17.365 was a lot going on. And it's interesting you might 0:13:17.485 --> 0:13:19.925 use the phrase mummy wine culture, and I'm sure we'll 0:13:19.965 --> 0:13:22.725 talk about that a little bit more, but to be 0:13:23.045 --> 0:13:26.965 kind to the women who've kind of fallen into that. 0:13:27.045 --> 0:13:30.365 You know, now we're very roundly dismissive of mummy wine culture, 0:13:30.365 --> 0:13:33.005 and rightly so because it's proved to be dangerous. But 0:13:34.165 --> 0:13:37.485 the world that you were just describing where you're suddenly isolated, 0:13:37.485 --> 0:13:39.325 and that happens whether you've moved to the other side 0:13:39.325 --> 0:13:41.885 of the world or not. Your life changes very suddenly. 0:13:42.725 --> 0:13:45.485 There's suddenly everything you're doing is not about you. It's 0:13:45.485 --> 0:13:48.405 about these people you're caring for. You're often on your 0:13:48.445 --> 0:13:51.645 own a lot and for a lot of people, that 0:13:51.965 --> 0:13:56.645 glass at that bad time glass of wine becomes there's 0:13:56.765 --> 0:13:59.485 mummy me and then there's grown up me, and this 0:13:59.525 --> 0:14:03.765 is the marker of it. And it feels like it's 0:14:03.845 --> 0:14:06.925 your friend, right Like, it feels like it's your friend, 0:14:07.005 --> 0:14:08.925 and it's the thing that will bond you to other 0:14:08.925 --> 0:14:14.405 people all those things, and yet as you are discovering 0:14:14.525 --> 0:14:18.605 it isn't really your friend. It's making things harder. Like 0:14:18.725 --> 0:14:20.805 what do you say to women who are at that 0:14:20.845 --> 0:14:25.285 particular moment who are like, but I, you know, I 0:14:25.365 --> 0:14:28.365 need it to get me into that who I used 0:14:28.405 --> 0:14:30.565 to be, you know, that kind of mindset. 0:14:30.685 --> 0:14:32.645 It's a really valid point, and I think that more 0:14:32.685 --> 0:14:35.245 needs to be said about the fact that the transition 0:14:35.405 --> 0:14:39.605 into becoming a mother is not talked about enough in 0:14:39.725 --> 0:14:42.085 terms of the mental side of things, where you do 0:14:42.205 --> 0:14:45.125 go from you know, if you've had a career and 0:14:45.165 --> 0:14:47.445 you've been working and you've been surrounded by your friends 0:14:47.445 --> 0:14:50.605 all the time and having complete independence and spontaneity, to 0:14:50.685 --> 0:14:54.485 suddenly having these little people that are relying on you. 0:14:55.165 --> 0:14:57.605 It's almost as if you can't say that you're struggling 0:14:57.685 --> 0:15:00.765 because everyone else out there is going it's amazing. Motherhood 0:15:00.845 --> 0:15:02.285 is the best thing ever, and of course I'm not 0:15:02.325 --> 0:15:06.605 saying it's not. But it's also freaking hard, and there 0:15:06.685 --> 0:15:10.205 is so much shame that comes with feeling you're struggling 0:15:10.365 --> 0:15:12.485 because on paper, I felt like I've got everything I 0:15:12.525 --> 0:15:15.325 could ever have asked for. We've moved to Australia. I 0:15:15.405 --> 0:15:17.445 live by the ocean. I've got a boy and a girl. 0:15:17.525 --> 0:15:19.605 We are happy, and we are healthy, and I have 0:15:19.805 --> 0:15:23.485 everything on paper. So why am I not happy? Why 0:15:23.565 --> 0:15:27.645 is there something inside of me that is struggling with this? 0:15:27.725 --> 0:15:30.885 And I felt shame around that, and I've spoken to 0:15:30.925 --> 0:15:33.845 so many women who have felt the same. And that's 0:15:33.885 --> 0:15:37.365 where alcohol. Alcohol is great at making those feelings go 0:15:37.445 --> 0:15:39.885 away because it numbs us so we don't have to 0:15:39.885 --> 0:15:41.445 feel them anymore. 0:15:41.365 --> 0:15:44.205 Until maybe it becomes part of the shame. Right, So 0:15:44.285 --> 0:15:46.325 is that what happened for you at that point? 0:15:46.605 --> 0:15:49.045 Yeah? Absolutely, And I say to everyone that becomes a 0:15:49.045 --> 0:15:52.405 gray area drinker. Alcohol is not the problem. For many 0:15:52.445 --> 0:15:56.045 of us. Alcohol is the solution to whatever the problem was. 0:15:56.125 --> 0:15:58.445 And for most of the women that I work with, 0:15:58.525 --> 0:16:00.925 I've got a group of twenty thousand and I asked 0:16:00.925 --> 0:16:03.325 them why do you drink? Or why did you drink? 0:16:03.365 --> 0:16:06.685 And there were three main reasons and it was awed 0:16:06.765 --> 0:16:08.085 and stress and loneliness. 0:16:09.525 --> 0:16:16.325 Right, that's so interesting. Boredom, stress and loneliness. So they're 0:16:16.365 --> 0:16:21.965 not Those are all obviously negative emotions, negative places that 0:16:22.005 --> 0:16:25.245 you want to escape from, and alcohol appears to be 0:16:25.325 --> 0:16:29.725 the key to another place where you're not stressed, bored, 0:16:29.805 --> 0:16:30.165 or lonely. 0:16:30.325 --> 0:16:34.045 Right, And so because number one for stress, alcohol in 0:16:34.165 --> 0:16:38.245 the short term gives us a depressing relaxant effect, so 0:16:38.285 --> 0:16:41.325 it minimizes that stress with boredom, and I find with 0:16:41.445 --> 0:16:45.005 boredom tends to be my ladies who have their kids 0:16:45.005 --> 0:16:47.885 have started growing up. They don't need them so much anymore, 0:16:47.925 --> 0:16:50.205 but they've given all of themselves and all of their 0:16:50.245 --> 0:16:53.165 lives to raising these kids, managing the juggle of work 0:16:53.205 --> 0:16:55.885 and home and everything. Suddenly they have all this time, 0:16:56.165 --> 0:16:57.685 but they don't know what to do with it, because 0:16:57.725 --> 0:17:00.485 they haven't focused on themselves for so long that this 0:17:00.645 --> 0:17:03.685 time is almost daunting. So they drink because they don't 0:17:03.725 --> 0:17:05.605 know what their help with hobbies are anymore, they don't 0:17:05.605 --> 0:17:08.325 know what they love doing. And loneliness because we are 0:17:08.325 --> 0:17:12.925 the most disconnected we have ever been as a human society, 0:17:13.085 --> 0:17:19.245 and alcohol nuns uncomfortable emotions, and so for all of us, 0:17:19.645 --> 0:17:23.805 alcohol was it might eventually become the problem, but initially 0:17:23.885 --> 0:17:26.885 it's the solution to whatever the problem is, and we're 0:17:27.005 --> 0:17:30.485 using it to escape that emotion. And so whenever we 0:17:30.565 --> 0:17:32.925 do come to the point of wanting to look at okay, 0:17:32.925 --> 0:17:34.845 how am I going to change my relationship with alcohol? 0:17:34.885 --> 0:17:36.365 We have to look at why we're drinking in the 0:17:36.365 --> 0:17:36.965 first place. 0:17:37.125 --> 0:17:40.605 Absolutely, So back to your story. You are, as you 0:17:40.765 --> 0:17:44.645 just described it, living this supposedly idyllic life, your relationship 0:17:44.645 --> 0:17:47.525 with alcohol. Did it escalate or did just the effects 0:17:47.565 --> 0:17:50.285 of it get more? I mean you were saying, how 0:17:50.325 --> 0:17:52.845 you are anxiety and you're going to the doctor. What 0:17:52.925 --> 0:17:55.245 happened next in terms of you beginning to put these 0:17:55.285 --> 0:17:59.245 pieces together that maybe that alcohol was the problem. 0:17:59.365 --> 0:18:01.685 Yeah, And I wouldn't say it escalated. I went through 0:18:01.685 --> 0:18:05.085 phases where there would be significant drinking and then phases 0:18:05.125 --> 0:18:07.525 where I would cut back. But it was always there 0:18:07.645 --> 0:18:09.885 in some way. And whenever there was a day where 0:18:09.925 --> 0:18:12.445 things were really hard, there was a big stress at work, 0:18:12.525 --> 0:18:15.405 there was a problem, my husband and I had an argument, 0:18:15.445 --> 0:18:18.725 whatever it was, alcohol was always my solution. And then 0:18:18.765 --> 0:18:22.485 in twenty seventeen, I went to a friend's fortieth I 0:18:22.525 --> 0:18:26.405 got really pissed and went outside for a cigarette because 0:18:26.485 --> 0:18:29.925 when I drank, I smoked. I was wearing high heels, 0:18:29.925 --> 0:18:32.245 which as a mum you don't do very often anymore, 0:18:32.405 --> 0:18:35.405 and I crouched down to put out my cigarette was 0:18:35.605 --> 0:18:39.445 pissed and I fell forward, but I didn't have any reflexes, 0:18:39.485 --> 0:18:42.285 and so I landed face first onto a concrete driveway 0:18:42.885 --> 0:18:46.365 and cut my lip open, cut my nose, blood everywhere, 0:18:46.885 --> 0:18:48.845 and my friend took me home and put me to bed, 0:18:49.685 --> 0:18:52.085 and I woke up the next morning to scarlet. My 0:18:52.205 --> 0:18:54.805 daughter was five at the time, standing beside my bed, 0:18:54.885 --> 0:18:59.205 and she said, Mummy, Mummy, what happened to your face? 0:19:00.925 --> 0:19:04.885 And oh, Holly, in that moment, I just felt such shame, 0:19:05.085 --> 0:19:09.725 such disgust, such self loathing. I lied to everybody and 0:19:09.765 --> 0:19:11.685 told them that we'd been out on the boat and 0:19:11.765 --> 0:19:13.925 the boat had gone over a big wave and I'd 0:19:13.965 --> 0:19:16.805 fallen forward and landed on my face. Because I felt 0:19:16.885 --> 0:19:20.805 so ashamed that I had this drinking accident. I was 0:19:20.845 --> 0:19:23.685 forty one. I was like, what is wrong with me? 0:19:24.685 --> 0:19:27.725 And I went to the chemist to get some I said, 0:19:27.725 --> 0:19:29.485 I was like, I have to go to the school 0:19:29.485 --> 0:19:31.365 concert this week. I have to go to all these things. 0:19:31.365 --> 0:19:33.885 You have to make me look normal. So she gave 0:19:33.925 --> 0:19:36.645 me all these ibuprofen and arnaca and all these things, 0:19:37.605 --> 0:19:41.445 and then she slipped me a card for domestic violence. 0:19:42.565 --> 0:19:47.525 Oh and honestly, light it was like someone that punched 0:19:47.525 --> 0:19:50.285 me in the stomach, and I stood there and my 0:19:50.445 --> 0:19:52.845 eyes just filled with tears, which probably made her think 0:19:52.885 --> 0:19:59.845 even more that she had done the right thing. 0:20:00.885 --> 0:20:04.685 More of my conversation with Sarah respect after this shortbreak 0:20:04.885 --> 0:20:13.165 stay with us. It was like she sensed there was 0:20:13.245 --> 0:20:18.325 some shame here or some distress here, that this wasn't 0:20:18.405 --> 0:20:22.085 just an incident on the boat, but she misdiagnosed its source. 0:20:23.045 --> 0:20:25.965 So I decided there and then I'm going to do 0:20:26.005 --> 0:20:28.845 a twenty one day reset, because everyone says it takes 0:20:28.885 --> 0:20:30.805 twenty one days to break a habit, and in my mind, 0:20:31.005 --> 0:20:33.685 I just had a bad habit. I wasn't an alcoholic. 0:20:33.725 --> 0:20:36.005 I'd googled that many times and I had, you know, 0:20:36.205 --> 0:20:38.565 very happily said to myself, No, I do not fit 0:20:38.605 --> 0:20:40.885 those criteria. I'm not an alcoholic, so therefore I don't 0:20:40.885 --> 0:20:42.445 have a problem with alcohol. So it's fine. 0:20:43.325 --> 0:20:46.485 Do you agree with the statement I've heard before, which is, 0:20:46.525 --> 0:20:49.845