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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother Mea podcast.

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Speaker 2: Hello, old friend, I'm Annalie Todd, host of Mumma MEA's

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Speaker 2: new podcast, She Built That, And I'm dropping into your

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Speaker 2: That's Incredible feed because I think you're going to love

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Speaker 2: this just like That's Incredible. It's a co listening podcast

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Speaker 2: for you to enjoy with your kids. She Built That

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Speaker 2: is all about courageous women who've turned their dreams into reality.

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Speaker 2: These women didn't just dream big, they built their futures.

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Speaker 2: Each episode, I sit down with inspiring female entrepreneurs, athletes,

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Speaker 2: and game changers who've created something extraordinary from the ground up.

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Speaker 2: We take you on a journey through storytelling with beautiful soundscapes,

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Speaker 2: diving deep into their winds, the hard times, and the

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Speaker 2: moments that sparked everything for them. You're about to hear

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Speaker 2: our first episode with Chloe Hayden. You might know her

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Speaker 2: from Netflix's Heartbreak High, but she's also built a platform

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Speaker 2: that's changing the conversation around university and representation. Her story

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Speaker 2: has ups, downs and roundabouts and it's fascinating. So gather

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Speaker 2: up the kids, stick around, and if you love what

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Speaker 2: you hear, make sure you subscribe to She Built That.

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Speaker 2: Wherever you get your podcasts for more incredible episodes, enjoy,

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Speaker 2: Hello Future Builders, and welcome to She Built That, the

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Speaker 2: podcast where we discover incredible women who didn't just dream big,

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Speaker 2: they built their futures. Every episode we'll explore how these

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Speaker 2: amazing women stack their talents, overcame obstacles and created something

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Speaker 2: spectacular that changed the world. I'm your host, Annalise Todd, MMA,

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Speaker 2: MIA's lifestyle writer and head of the Dreaming Department. Now,

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Speaker 2: before we activate this episode, can you guess who we're

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Speaker 2: talking about today? Okay, Mum and dad switch on now.

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Speaker 2: You don't want to get beaten here, think about your pride.

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Speaker 2: Clue number one. This young builder is an actress who

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Speaker 2: portrays an autistic character in a hit Netflix series and

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Speaker 2: is proudly autistical. Clue number two. Her hair color has

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Speaker 2: been various forms of red and she's a big one

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Speaker 2: direction fan. Clue number three. She wrote a book called

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Speaker 2: Different Not Less and has won an Audience Choice Award

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Speaker 2: at the Australian Academy of Cinema and Television Arts Awards.

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Speaker 2: Can you guess who it is? How'd you go? If

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Speaker 2: you guessed Chloe Hayden, You're spot on today we're talking

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Speaker 2: about actress, author, and disability rights activist Chloe Hayden, who's

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Speaker 2: building a more inclusive world by championing authentic representation for

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Speaker 2: neurodivergent people one conversation at a time. So get ready

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Speaker 2: to embrace your individuality After this, The audition room was

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Speaker 2: bright and humming with nervous energy, But for Chloe, the

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Speaker 2: world seemed to shrink to the size of her own heartbeat.

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Speaker 2: Her hands trembled as she clutched the script. This was

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Speaker 2: the moment she dreamed of, but also the one she

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Speaker 2: feared most. Would they understand her? Would they see her

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Speaker 2: for who she truly was? As the casting director called

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Speaker 2: her name, Chloe took in a deep breath, feeling the

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Speaker 2: weight of every time she'd ever been told she was

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Speaker 2: too different, too much, not enough. And then she stepped forward.

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Speaker 2: Picture this a young girl in Australia feeling like she's

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Speaker 2: crash landed on an alien planet. That was Chloe Hayden,

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Speaker 2: And for real, everyone else may as well have spoken alien,

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Speaker 2: because that's how it felt at times. From the very start,

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Speaker 2: Chloe knew she was different. The world around her felt

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Speaker 2: loud and confusing, eye contact, weird, small talk even weirder,

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Speaker 2: And why did everyone seem to expect her to fit

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Speaker 2: into a box that just didn't feel natural. I mean,

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Speaker 2: most adults spend half their lives in meetings about thinking

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Speaker 2: outside the box, but kids are just expected to get

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Speaker 2: in and stay there. But there was one thing that

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Speaker 2: Chloe discovered that made her feel right at home, and

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Speaker 2: that was acting. So she would escape into film and

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Speaker 2: so mister mcgorriam's wonder implorium would always make her smile.

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Speaker 1: The store upstairs immediately.

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Speaker 2: Now, we all need something to make us dream and

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Speaker 2: feel good about ourselves. So I asked Chloe why performing

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Speaker 2: was so special to her growing up.

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Speaker 1: I always knew that I wanted to do something in

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Speaker 1: the entertainment space. I wanted to be a singer. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be an actor. I wanted to be on

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Speaker 1: stage and perform and play pretend because weirdly, by playing pretend,

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Speaker 1: I felt more myself than I did any other time.

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Speaker 2: Chloe found freedom in practicing characters behind closed doors. But

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Speaker 2: still her early years were anything but easy, and by

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Speaker 2: the time she was thirteen, she'd already attended ten different

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Speaker 2: schools yep ten and eventually Chloe's parents decided to homeschool

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Speaker 2: her to protect her well being. It was at this

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Speaker 2: time Chloe got a diagnosis she was autistic. Now, autism

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Speaker 2: is a natural variation in how human brains work, not

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Speaker 2: a flaw, just a different way of experiencing and processing

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Speaker 2: the world. Later, she'd also learned she had ADHD. I

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Speaker 2: asked Chloe what it was light getting this news and

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Speaker 2: how it made her feel.

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Speaker 1: Being diagnosed as autistic as a thirteen year old girl

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Speaker 1: was really scary in some ways and really validating in others.

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Speaker 1: Growing up in a really tiny country town, autism it

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Speaker 1: wasn't really something that people knew about, and when they

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Speaker 1: saw me, they definitely didn't see what their expectation of

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Speaker 1: autism was. And that made being autistic feel somehow even

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Speaker 1: more isolating.

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Speaker 2: But through it all, Chloe still dreamed of becoming a performer,

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Speaker 2: even as she struggled relating to people outside of the home.

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Speaker 2: She would watch her favorite performers and then try to

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Speaker 2: emulate their mannerisms, always building on her acting skills. Her

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Speaker 2: dad would drive her to acting lessons and community plays too.

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Speaker 2: This was the one place where Chloe could find her

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Speaker 2: own self expression. It lit her up inside. I wanted

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Speaker 2: to know what Chloe loves about acting and why having

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Speaker 2: someone else write the rules can sometimes be the most

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Speaker 2: freeing thing of all.

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Speaker 1: There's something about performing, whether it be on stage or

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Speaker 1: in front of a camera, that just takes me to

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Speaker 1: my happy place. I get to literally play pretend as

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Speaker 1: a job. Would that not be everyone's happy plays, but

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Speaker 1: there's just something so wonderful for me as a neurodivergent

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Speaker 1: person where the lines are written for me, my emotions

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Speaker 1: are written for me. I don't have to play this

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Speaker 1: game and figure out what I'm supposed to be or

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Speaker 1: how other people are expecting me to be. I just

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Speaker 1: get to do what the words on the paper say

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Speaker 1: and play pretend. And there's something so oddly freeing about

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Speaker 1: doing that.

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Speaker 2: So let's call a spade a spade here. Teenage short

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Speaker 2: is hard enough trying to find your identity, but Chloe's

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Speaker 2: teens were next level tricky, being isolated from her peers

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Speaker 2: and abandoned by some friends for not acting how others

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Speaker 2: thought was normal. And for all you mums and dads

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Speaker 2: out there, just think back to that one year of

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Speaker 2: truly questionable fashion and blue eyeshadow. Perhaps that you survived

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Speaker 2: and we salute you. But this was truly a time

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Speaker 2: Chloe felt everything was stacked against her, but she continued

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Speaker 2: to stack on layers of expression in any way possible,

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Speaker 2: Even outside of acting. Chloe was embracing her own unique,

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Speaker 2: if you will, magnetism, and she decided to tell her

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Speaker 2: own story to see if anyone else out there could

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Speaker 2: relate to her experiences, starting an anonymous blog under the

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Speaker 2: name Princess Aspian, hoping maybe, just maybe someone out there

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Speaker 2: would understand. To her surprise, thousands of people did. Messages

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Speaker 2: poured in from kids and teens who felt just like her, different,

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Speaker 2: alone and desperate for acceptance. Chloe realized she wasn't alone

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Speaker 2: after all. Soon Chloe was building a community, and her

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Speaker 2: difference was her superpower. I asked her about the moment

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Speaker 2: she discovered she wasn't as alone as she thought, and

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Speaker 2: how that changed everything.

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Speaker 1: When I started my online blog, I wasn't expecting people

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Speaker 1: to see themselves in me. I was hoping to see

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Speaker 1: myself in other people. I was desperately reaching out, desperate

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Speaker 1: to find one person who made me feel like I

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Speaker 1: wasn't from an alien planet and that I was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be here, And many, many, people reached out and

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Speaker 1: responded to my blog, and the rest is history. But

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Speaker 1: that initial realization that if I was from an alien planet,

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Speaker 1: there was millions of people out there that were from

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Speaker 1: the same planet was instrumental in my growth and instrumental

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Speaker 1: in my understanding that I was supposed to be here

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Speaker 1: and that I was supposed to exist, and people like

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Speaker 1: me have existed for as long as humankind have, and

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Speaker 1: they will exist for as long as human kind will.

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Speaker 1: It is so important for people to be able to

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Speaker 1: see themselves and to be able to have an understanding

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Speaker 1: that their brain is supposed to be here and that

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Speaker 1: they are supposed to exist, and that community and that

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Speaker 1: social aspect of being able to find that is life changing.

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Speaker 2: Her blog led her to YouTube, where she made videos

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Speaker 2: about her life as an autistic girl.

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Speaker 1: Hi guys, my name is Chloe. I know I learned

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Speaker 1: Prince's Askian executive functioning.

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Speaker 2: What's that?

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Speaker 1: Don't know her?

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Speaker 2: She became a powerful voice for neurodiversity, showing the world

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Speaker 2: that being different wasn't just okay, it was amazing. As

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Speaker 2: her online momentum Snowboard, Chloe grew more confident in who

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Speaker 2: she was. She embraced what made her different instead of

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Speaker 2: trying to fit in. As the years passed, her acting

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Speaker 2: career was moving slowly but still growing. She did roles

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Speaker 2: in theater, plays and short films, but was yet to

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Speaker 2: find her big break. But in twenty twenty one, at

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Speaker 2: age twenty four, something incredible happened. Chloe was invited to

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Speaker 2: audition for a role as an autistic team called Quinnie

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Speaker 2: on a new Netflix show called Heartbreak High.

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Speaker 1: I knew the second that I saw Quinnie's character that

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Speaker 1: she was mine. I was actually competing at a cowboy

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Speaker 1: event in Bonnie Doon when it got sent through to me,

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Speaker 1: and I knew I had to get this job. And

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Speaker 1: so there's actually a video of me circulating somewhere of

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Speaker 1: my mouth moving while I'm doing this competition, and my

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Speaker 1: mouth is moving practicing the script in the middle of

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Speaker 1: me competing. I sent it off and I was hounding

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Speaker 1: my manager almost daily being like, do you know anything yet?

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Speaker 1: Have I got the job? Is the next stage of

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Speaker 1: the audition coming? Like do you know anything? And lo

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Speaker 1: and behold, I got a second audition, and then I

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Speaker 1: got an audition in front of the cast and producers

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Speaker 1: and the directors and the producers of the show.

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Speaker 2: This was a dream role for Chloe, and she knew

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Speaker 2: she had to nail the audition. But then as Sue

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Speaker 2: turned up at the front door, all uninvited self doubt.

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Speaker 1: Hello, just like that.

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Speaker 2: Relative who shows up at Christmas but never RSVPs. So

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Speaker 2: arriving at the audition, questions arose in her mind. Would

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Speaker 2: they really get her? Would they like her, love her

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Speaker 2: for who she truly was. As the casting director called

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Speaker 2: her name, the blinding lights shone in her eyes, just

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Speaker 2: for some extra pressure if there wasn't already enough, and

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Speaker 2: everyone there began to murmur. Chloe took a deep breath,

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Speaker 2: and then with a quiet confidence, she stepped forward, letting

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Speaker 2: her authentic self shine through every word, every gesture, channeling

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Speaker 2: years of feeling misunderstood into Quinnie's vulnerability and strength. When

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Speaker 2: she finished, the room was silent for a beat. Everyone

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Speaker 2: was in awe. Chloe had done it. She hadn't just

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Speaker 2: played the part, she owned it, turning her difference into

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Speaker 2: her greatest power.

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Speaker 1: This might seem naive to say, but I do truly

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Speaker 1: believe that everything happens for a reason. And if I

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Speaker 1: could go back in time and take away little Chloe's pain.

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Speaker 1: I would in a heartbeat, but I can't do that,

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Speaker 1: and so I have to believe that the pain that

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Speaker 1: I went through growing up made me the person that

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Speaker 1: I am today and gave me the opportunity and the

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Speaker 1: life experience to be able to perform Quinny the way

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Speaker 1: that I do.

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Speaker 2: Working with the director Chloe helped shape Quinny's character, crafting

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Speaker 2: and stacking layer upon layer, making sure she was real, honest,

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Speaker 2: and nothing like the stereotypes she'd seen growing up.

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Speaker 1: When I got the role of Quinny, I knew straightaway

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Speaker 1: that she obviously was autistic. Originally she was just neurodivergent, coded,

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Speaker 1: I believe, And when I got the job, I had

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Speaker 1: discussions with the producers the directors and told them how

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Speaker 1: important it was to me that Quinny wasn't coded autistic,

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Speaker 1: because we have enough coded characters. We need to see

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Speaker 1: an actual, real life underlined bold. I tell a sized,

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Speaker 1: this person is autistic on screen. And so I was

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Speaker 1: really lucky to be able to work with them to

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Speaker 1: help create this character that we know and that we

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Speaker 1: love today. But we also had the most incredible autism consultants.

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Speaker 1: Quinny was written by an autistic person, and I think

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Speaker 1: she shows the importance of representation, not just in front

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Speaker 1: of the camera, but behind the camera, to make sure

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Speaker 1: that experiences truly are and the characters that we are

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Speaker 1: seeing truly are a real version of a person, and

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Speaker 1: that real people can look at these characters and go, oh,

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Speaker 1: my gosh, I see myself and I think Quinny is

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Speaker 1: the perfect example of that.

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Speaker 2: The audience and critics loved Quinnie. Chloe had made this

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Speaker 2: character so authentic, and for the first time, kids like

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Speaker 2: Chloe saw themselves on screen.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be a burden, but I've never

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Speaker 1: given any time or wanting to prepare. It's just not fair.

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Speaker 2: Chloe won an Actor Award for her performance and was

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Speaker 2: nominated for a Logi Award. She made history, but more importantly,

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Speaker 2: she gave hope to thousands of neurodivergent young people who

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Speaker 2: felt invisible. After the success of Heartbreak High, it became

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Speaker 2: clear there was a void to be filled for a

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Speaker 2: neurodivergent voice to raise awareness so that people like her

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Speaker 2: would be better understood well. Chloe stepped on into that

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Speaker 2: space like a perfectly cast lead. Word by word, page

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Speaker 2: after page, she poured her heart, experience, and knowledge into

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Speaker 2: her debut novel, and it was a best seller if

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Speaker 2: you don't mind called different not less. Sharing her journey

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Speaker 2: and encouraging others to embrace who they are, she became

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Speaker 2: a motivational speaker, traveling the world to talk about autism, kindness,

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Speaker 2: and the magic of being yourself. Today, Chloe Hayden is

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Speaker 2: a role model for kids everywhere. She's shown that you

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Speaker 2: don't have to fit in to make a difference. In fact,

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Speaker 2: it's the people who stand out, who dare to be

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Speaker 2: themselves who change the world. So what's Chloe's advice to

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Speaker 2: young people looking to embrace their individuality?

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Speaker 1: Learning that I was autistic and having that diagnosis was

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Speaker 1: so incredibly powerful, And I wish that I could go

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Speaker 1: back and tell thirteen year old Chloe, or even younger

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Speaker 1: than that, who wasn't diagnosed with anything, and be able

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Speaker 1: to tell her that she has got such an incredibly

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Speaker 1: bright future. And most importantly, what I want every young

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Speaker 1: person to know that has ever felt different is their

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Speaker 1: brain is exactly how it's supposed to be. I've always

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Speaker 1: seen in dreams as you need to dream as big

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Speaker 1: as you possibly can, because everything that I am currently

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Speaker 1: living and doing was beyond what expectations were for me,

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Speaker 1: but I dreamed for it and it happens.

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Speaker 2: So the next time you feel out of place or

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Speaker 2: worried about what others think of you, remember Chloe Hayden,

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Speaker 2: the girl who turned society's walls into stepping stones, paving

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Speaker 2: her own way to become a performer and a voice

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Speaker 2: for change. Yep, she built that.

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Speaker 1: Gosh.

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Speaker 2: Thinking about Chloe's story, I know I've had many times

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Speaker 2: where I felt that urge to change myself just to

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Speaker 2: fit in with everyone else, don't stand out, particularly at school.

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Speaker 2: It can be hard to not go with the flow.

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Speaker 2: But this week, let's flip that like Chloe did. Now

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Speaker 2: it's your turn. I've got a challenge for you. It's

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Speaker 2: called the Celebrate your Difference Challenge. Bit of a mouthful,

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Speaker 2: isn't it, But I do think Chloe's right. Embracing what

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Speaker 2: makes you you is a far better path to happiness

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Speaker 2: than trying to follow others. Here's the challenge. Think of

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Speaker 2: one thing that makes you unique. Maybe it's a special interest,

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Speaker 2: a talent, or even just the way you see the world.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's a thought or opinion that's a little bit different.

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Speaker 2: Write it down, draw a picture about it. Or tell

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Speaker 2: a friend or family member. When I was at school,

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Speaker 2: I was told I was too much and I talk

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Speaker 2: too much. And now I'm talking on a podcast that's

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Speaker 2: a celebration of what I was told was a challenge.

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Speaker 2: Remember your difference is your source of insight, just like

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Speaker 2: Chloe's was. Share it proudly and see how it makes

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Speaker 2: you feel. Of course, if you're comfortable doing so and

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Speaker 2: in a safe space, you might even inspire someone else

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Speaker 2: to celebrate what makes them unique too. Thanks for listening

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Speaker 2: to She Built That, and remember, incredible girls don't just dream,

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Speaker 2: they built. Today's episode was written by Tom Lyon, who

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Speaker 2: also did the sound design, and produced by Tina Mattiloff.

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Speaker 2: The executive producer of She Built That is Courtney Ammenhauser

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Speaker 2: and my name's Annalise Todd. I'll catch you next time

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Speaker 2: when we tell the story of an Ossie girl who's

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Speaker 2: taking the surfing world by storm. Bye, Mamma Mia acknowledges

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Speaker 2: the traditional owners of the land. We have recorded this

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Speaker 2: podcast on the Gadigul people of the Or nation. We

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Speaker 2: pay our respects to their elders past and present, and

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Speaker 2: extend that respect to all Aboriginal and torrest rate Islander

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Speaker 2: cultures