1 00:00:08,234 --> 00:00:10,914 Speaker 1: You're listening to A mother and mea podcast. 2 00:00:20,354 --> 00:00:23,234 Speaker 2: Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the Podcast of parents. It's 3 00:00:23,314 --> 00:00:25,714 Speaker 2: not like the other parenting podcast. No no, no, no no, 4 00:00:25,754 --> 00:00:29,394 Speaker 2: it's not. We don't tell you how to parent. Instead, 5 00:00:29,834 --> 00:00:32,154 Speaker 2: we read everything on the internet so that you don't 6 00:00:32,193 --> 00:00:34,873 Speaker 2: have to, and then we bring you all the good stuff, 7 00:00:34,914 --> 00:00:37,473 Speaker 2: the news, the trends, the culture and sort of all 8 00:00:37,513 --> 00:00:40,594 Speaker 2: the interesting things in me. You go, I'm one Eat Bowley. 9 00:00:40,553 --> 00:00:42,913 Speaker 1: I'm Amelia Least and I'm Stacy Hicks. 10 00:00:43,034 --> 00:00:44,913 Speaker 2: And coming up on today's show. 11 00:00:45,074 --> 00:00:48,114 Speaker 3: Is homework in twenty twenty six just a big old 12 00:00:48,153 --> 00:00:52,233 Speaker 3: waste of time. Australia's biggest influencer has started that debate, 13 00:00:52,314 --> 00:00:53,874 Speaker 3: and we're going to attempt to answer it. 14 00:00:54,354 --> 00:00:55,794 Speaker 1: Plus her husband. 15 00:00:55,514 --> 00:00:57,674 Speaker 4: One and after and all she got were the kids, 16 00:00:58,114 --> 00:01:01,914 Speaker 4: the viral Instagram post that everyone is talking about. 17 00:01:02,194 --> 00:01:06,154 Speaker 2: And guys, we've got some twin news. So Jesse Stevens, 18 00:01:06,234 --> 00:01:08,313 Speaker 2: friend of the pod and Luca Levine front of the 19 00:01:08,314 --> 00:01:10,834 Speaker 2: pod they have birth and we're gonna hear how the 20 00:01:10,874 --> 00:01:11,674 Speaker 2: first days are going. 21 00:01:11,994 --> 00:01:13,274 Speaker 1: So excited for that, I know. 22 00:01:13,394 --> 00:01:17,754 Speaker 2: But first huge news in divorce this week, move over 23 00:01:18,354 --> 00:01:23,194 Speaker 2: conscious uncoupling, because divorce has had another celebrity rebrand. Do 24 00:01:23,274 --> 00:01:25,434 Speaker 2: you know actor Lake Bell? You may not know her. 25 00:01:25,594 --> 00:01:27,834 Speaker 2: She was sort of in Boston Legal for a few seasons. 26 00:01:27,954 --> 00:01:31,434 Speaker 3: I feel like she's been on everything but nothing. You know, 27 00:01:31,634 --> 00:01:33,154 Speaker 3: she's one of those ones you know her the second 28 00:01:33,234 --> 00:01:33,674 Speaker 3: you see her. 29 00:01:33,754 --> 00:01:36,634 Speaker 2: She was on the Monica Lewinsky podcast this week. 30 00:01:36,794 --> 00:01:38,394 Speaker 1: Monica Lewinsky has a podcast. 31 00:01:39,074 --> 00:01:42,554 Speaker 2: Yes, today I learned Monica Lewinsky has a podcast. It's 32 00:01:42,594 --> 00:01:45,514 Speaker 2: about people who have rebranded themselves. 33 00:01:45,514 --> 00:01:47,234 Speaker 1: That's actually, that's smart. 34 00:01:47,474 --> 00:01:51,834 Speaker 2: And Monica asked her how she and her ex explained 35 00:01:51,914 --> 00:01:55,034 Speaker 2: splitting up to their kids. And here's what she said. 36 00:01:55,114 --> 00:01:58,314 Speaker 2: Now takes special note of the language that she uses. 37 00:01:58,874 --> 00:02:01,154 Speaker 5: You know, we never used the word divorce around them. 38 00:02:01,474 --> 00:02:05,074 Speaker 5: We said to them basically, so mom and dad got married, 39 00:02:06,034 --> 00:02:06,914 Speaker 5: how do you guys? 40 00:02:07,394 --> 00:02:08,034 Speaker 2: And we did it. 41 00:02:08,274 --> 00:02:08,754 Speaker 1: We did it. 42 00:02:09,314 --> 00:02:10,233 Speaker 2: So we did marriage. 43 00:02:10,394 --> 00:02:13,434 Speaker 5: And now we never use the word butt. And now 44 00:02:13,674 --> 00:02:15,794 Speaker 5: we have two houses and mom and dad are forever 45 00:02:15,874 --> 00:02:18,394 Speaker 5: mom and dad obviously, and we have. 46 00:02:18,354 --> 00:02:19,394 Speaker 6: Two houses now. 47 00:02:19,674 --> 00:02:23,474 Speaker 5: So mom and dad are friends, wow, and family forever. 48 00:02:23,634 --> 00:02:27,034 Speaker 5: So all of those were forever family. We are not married. Yeah, 49 00:02:27,074 --> 00:02:28,674 Speaker 5: they're like, but we want you to be married. 50 00:02:28,874 --> 00:02:29,754 Speaker 2: You know, they would say, like. 51 00:02:30,034 --> 00:02:31,353 Speaker 5: Well it would be better if you were in the 52 00:02:31,394 --> 00:02:33,354 Speaker 5: same house. Mean, did you ever think of us? And 53 00:02:33,394 --> 00:02:38,834 Speaker 5: I was like, thank you, thank you? Did you ever 54 00:02:39,034 --> 00:02:41,354 Speaker 5: think of us? I remember her saying. 55 00:02:41,074 --> 00:02:43,754 Speaker 2: That and being like, OK God, I was like, so 56 00:02:44,514 --> 00:02:45,913 Speaker 2: we only. 57 00:02:45,514 --> 00:02:46,074 Speaker 1: Thought of you. 58 00:02:46,474 --> 00:02:48,073 Speaker 2: Yea's almost fair to say. 59 00:02:48,234 --> 00:02:48,874 Speaker 1: I love it. 60 00:02:49,114 --> 00:02:51,874 Speaker 4: I think that's really clever. It never occurred to me 61 00:02:52,074 --> 00:02:53,394 Speaker 4: about the not using. 62 00:02:53,234 --> 00:02:55,714 Speaker 3: But yeah, it would be so hard, like it felt 63 00:02:55,714 --> 00:02:57,793 Speaker 3: like she even had to stop herself from saying it then. 64 00:02:57,874 --> 00:03:01,274 Speaker 3: But yeah, not saying that means that there isn't a negative. 65 00:03:01,354 --> 00:03:02,914 Speaker 3: It's just this is what we do now. 66 00:03:02,994 --> 00:03:05,714 Speaker 2: It's interesting to just not even use the D word. 67 00:03:06,074 --> 00:03:09,234 Speaker 2: It's very very modern. But surely the kids at schooling 68 00:03:09,274 --> 00:03:12,794 Speaker 2: and I'm be like, you got divorce, Like, how much 69 00:03:12,914 --> 00:03:15,154 Speaker 2: do you shelter? How much does language matter here? 70 00:03:15,674 --> 00:03:18,394 Speaker 1: I wonder if our kids these days going to say that. 71 00:03:18,474 --> 00:03:18,994 Speaker 1: I don't know. 72 00:03:19,154 --> 00:03:22,234 Speaker 4: I think language can be really powerful and reframing things 73 00:03:22,234 --> 00:03:25,874 Speaker 4: for people. I have a friend who has just gone 74 00:03:25,914 --> 00:03:29,114 Speaker 4: through a divorce, and in her own words, she did 75 00:03:29,114 --> 00:03:29,634 Speaker 4: it in the. 76 00:03:29,554 --> 00:03:30,954 Speaker 1: Most hippie dippy way. 77 00:03:31,114 --> 00:03:34,114 Speaker 4: That is, they hired a therapist who was present with 78 00:03:34,274 --> 00:03:37,794 Speaker 4: all the lawyers sessions. Often she and her ex husband 79 00:03:37,794 --> 00:03:41,194 Speaker 4: didn't even attend negotiations. It was just the therapist talking 80 00:03:41,234 --> 00:03:42,754 Speaker 4: on their behalf to the lawyers. 81 00:03:43,474 --> 00:03:44,994 Speaker 1: And she did say that when you. 82 00:03:44,994 --> 00:03:48,434 Speaker 4: Have a hippie dippy divorce, it's the second most expensive 83 00:03:48,474 --> 00:03:51,074 Speaker 4: divorce you can do. The most expensive is obviously you 84 00:03:51,114 --> 00:03:54,434 Speaker 4: hate each other and everything's acrimonious. Second most expensive is 85 00:03:54,514 --> 00:03:56,954 Speaker 4: hippie dippy and then all the other divorces a summer 86 00:03:56,994 --> 00:03:57,474 Speaker 4: in the middle. 87 00:03:58,034 --> 00:04:01,274 Speaker 2: Lake Belle said in this interview the Fuller interview that 88 00:04:01,794 --> 00:04:05,114 Speaker 2: the word divorce has this very negative connotation around it, 89 00:04:05,154 --> 00:04:08,234 Speaker 2: and I think I agree with that have a negative connotation, 90 00:04:08,274 --> 00:04:10,514 Speaker 2: and what they're doing her and her ex are like 91 00:04:10,634 --> 00:04:14,074 Speaker 2: reframing it as this positive thing. Hey, we did marriage, 92 00:04:14,074 --> 00:04:16,194 Speaker 2: and look we have you, and now we've got this 93 00:04:16,354 --> 00:04:19,194 Speaker 2: and all this abundance and it's two houses and everyone's happy. 94 00:04:19,313 --> 00:04:20,834 Speaker 2: And I quite like the reframing. 95 00:04:21,433 --> 00:04:23,234 Speaker 3: Now a bit of a gear change on this one. 96 00:04:23,313 --> 00:04:25,954 Speaker 3: The biggest video on the internet this week was of 97 00:04:25,993 --> 00:04:29,113 Speaker 3: a nine year old girl sitting in a field talking 98 00:04:29,274 --> 00:04:33,354 Speaker 3: about her very famous father's death. So James van der Beek, 99 00:04:33,354 --> 00:04:35,834 Speaker 3: who was the star of Dawson's Creek, passed away last 100 00:04:35,873 --> 00:04:38,273 Speaker 3: month and he was only forty eight, he had colo 101 00:04:38,354 --> 00:04:41,553 Speaker 3: rectal cancer. It was really devastating, and he left behind 102 00:04:41,633 --> 00:04:45,113 Speaker 3: his wife and their six kids and now their fourth child. 103 00:04:45,113 --> 00:04:48,674 Speaker 3: Amelia has used her mum's account and to millions of 104 00:04:48,714 --> 00:04:51,674 Speaker 3: people done this video that went for about five minutes 105 00:04:52,113 --> 00:04:55,113 Speaker 3: talking about how she's coping with grief. But we'll just 106 00:04:55,154 --> 00:04:57,193 Speaker 3: play you a short little snippet of what she said. 107 00:04:57,674 --> 00:05:02,113 Speaker 7: Hello, my name is Amelia Vanderbeek, and as you all know, 108 00:05:03,313 --> 00:05:08,393 Speaker 7: probably know, my dad has passed away. But I'm just 109 00:05:08,433 --> 00:05:15,113 Speaker 7: going to tell you a little tips or anything that 110 00:05:15,234 --> 00:05:19,674 Speaker 7: helps you getting through. Anybody you love is passing. So 111 00:05:19,834 --> 00:05:27,033 Speaker 7: today is my dad's birthday, and the number one thing 112 00:05:27,513 --> 00:05:32,194 Speaker 7: for somebody's passing is to talk to them and let 113 00:05:32,234 --> 00:05:37,193 Speaker 7: your emotions out. If you miss them, you can cry, 114 00:05:37,553 --> 00:05:40,074 Speaker 7: you can talk to them. I talk to my. 115 00:05:40,073 --> 00:05:40,794 Speaker 6: Dad every day. 116 00:05:41,513 --> 00:05:45,033 Speaker 3: My initial thought was teers, this really got me, But 117 00:05:45,154 --> 00:05:48,274 Speaker 3: I also found it really jarring, if I'm honest, to 118 00:05:48,313 --> 00:05:50,193 Speaker 3: hear this coming from a nine year old, and to 119 00:05:50,234 --> 00:05:54,514 Speaker 3: hear a nine year old speaking about death so openly 120 00:05:54,753 --> 00:05:58,633 Speaker 3: and candidly, and with this grown up knowledge of what 121 00:05:59,034 --> 00:06:01,914 Speaker 3: was going on, and a lot of people were saying 122 00:06:01,914 --> 00:06:03,553 Speaker 3: the same, it felt like I shouldn't be hearing it. 123 00:06:03,633 --> 00:06:05,674 Speaker 3: But then the more I thought about it, I was like, 124 00:06:05,753 --> 00:06:09,354 Speaker 3: is that just because I'm uncomfortable speaking about death? You know, 125 00:06:09,354 --> 00:06:11,914 Speaker 3: you don't we often protect children from that and think 126 00:06:11,953 --> 00:06:14,594 Speaker 3: that that shouldn't be something they're part of that conversation. 127 00:06:15,193 --> 00:06:17,833 Speaker 3: But really it's clear that they've handled this with her 128 00:06:18,113 --> 00:06:20,594 Speaker 3: in such a beautiful way that she's handling it as 129 00:06:20,594 --> 00:06:24,313 Speaker 3: well as you possibly called in that circumstance, right, you 130 00:06:24,354 --> 00:06:25,354 Speaker 3: look very emotional. 131 00:06:25,393 --> 00:06:25,713 Speaker 1: Mons. 132 00:06:25,873 --> 00:06:28,354 Speaker 2: I just feel like I got parented by a nine 133 00:06:28,393 --> 00:06:32,073 Speaker 2: year old in that moment. And I also felt conflicted 134 00:06:32,113 --> 00:06:35,914 Speaker 2: about seeing a child on social media at this level 135 00:06:36,034 --> 00:06:38,953 Speaker 2: of virality, which you know I have feelings about if 136 00:06:38,993 --> 00:06:40,834 Speaker 2: you've listened to this show before. I do feel really 137 00:06:40,914 --> 00:06:44,193 Speaker 2: conflicted about kids on social media. But we are shit 138 00:06:44,193 --> 00:06:47,553 Speaker 2: at talking about death. We're terrible at it, and just 139 00:06:47,714 --> 00:06:50,434 Speaker 2: out of the mouths of babes. I loved this and 140 00:06:50,553 --> 00:06:53,073 Speaker 2: it was so beautiful, and I feel like, right now 141 00:06:53,113 --> 00:06:56,753 Speaker 2: I'm looking for beautiful content, I'm looking for connection online. 142 00:06:57,313 --> 00:06:59,953 Speaker 2: The world's a really hard place out there, and I 143 00:07:00,113 --> 00:07:02,834 Speaker 2: just felt so touched by this, and I felt like 144 00:07:02,873 --> 00:07:04,633 Speaker 2: it's the kind of thing that we actually need to 145 00:07:04,633 --> 00:07:05,794 Speaker 2: be seeing right now. 146 00:07:05,794 --> 00:07:08,674 Speaker 3: A lot of pressure on her, thank you, And I 147 00:07:08,714 --> 00:07:11,474 Speaker 3: guess kids are so much more malleable, like anything they 148 00:07:11,554 --> 00:07:13,914 Speaker 3: learn when they're younger is just kind of matter of 149 00:07:13,953 --> 00:07:16,514 Speaker 3: fact and then part of their world and their existence. 150 00:07:17,154 --> 00:07:20,234 Speaker 3: When you are shielded from death when you're younger, then 151 00:07:20,234 --> 00:07:24,674 Speaker 3: when it happens it does feel so much more devastating 152 00:07:24,714 --> 00:07:26,594 Speaker 3: to you. So maybe this is the way we need 153 00:07:26,634 --> 00:07:28,473 Speaker 3: to just be a lot more frank about it, right. 154 00:07:28,714 --> 00:07:31,674 Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I'm a bit worried about it. 155 00:07:31,794 --> 00:07:34,473 Speaker 4: Tell me why I'm not coming at this from a 156 00:07:34,914 --> 00:07:40,114 Speaker 4: judgment about James van Derbiek's partner and sort of kids 157 00:07:40,154 --> 00:07:44,074 Speaker 4: on social media argument at all. I think she and 158 00:07:44,114 --> 00:07:48,354 Speaker 4: that whole family are going through unimaginable grief and now 159 00:07:48,474 --> 00:07:51,674 Speaker 4: is not the time to be implementing a screens strategy 160 00:07:51,674 --> 00:07:56,354 Speaker 4: at home. What I'm concerned about maybe concerns the wrong word, 161 00:07:56,393 --> 00:07:59,194 Speaker 4: But what I feel ambivalent about when I hear this 162 00:07:59,393 --> 00:08:00,714 Speaker 4: is that. 163 00:08:00,714 --> 00:08:03,273 Speaker 1: I worry that nine year old Amelia. 164 00:08:03,114 --> 00:08:08,394 Speaker 4: Is already absorbing lessons in how to form on the 165 00:08:08,434 --> 00:08:13,434 Speaker 4: internet and using the language of self improvement and the 166 00:08:13,514 --> 00:08:16,794 Speaker 4: vernacular that you're used to on social media before she 167 00:08:16,914 --> 00:08:20,314 Speaker 4: can really make informed decisions about whether or not she 168 00:08:20,393 --> 00:08:23,434 Speaker 4: wants to have a presence on the Internet. So the 169 00:08:23,514 --> 00:08:26,674 Speaker 4: idea of tips about how to get through grief, it 170 00:08:26,754 --> 00:08:29,634 Speaker 4: seems like a kid who feels like this is what 171 00:08:29,674 --> 00:08:33,354 Speaker 4: she should be doing because she's seen the adults in 172 00:08:33,394 --> 00:08:36,034 Speaker 4: her life or adults on the internet talk that way, 173 00:08:36,314 --> 00:08:39,714 Speaker 4: in that sort of self optimizing way. I just think, 174 00:08:39,754 --> 00:08:42,833 Speaker 4: at nine, you don't know what sort of person you're 175 00:08:42,874 --> 00:08:44,714 Speaker 4: going to be. You don't know what sort of person 176 00:08:44,754 --> 00:08:47,554 Speaker 4: you want to be on the Internet. And that's why 177 00:08:47,594 --> 00:08:51,514 Speaker 4: I feel less concerned and more ambivalent about what this 178 00:08:51,634 --> 00:08:56,953 Speaker 4: says about how digitally literate and saturated kids are in 179 00:08:56,954 --> 00:08:57,794 Speaker 4: Internet culture. 180 00:08:59,554 --> 00:09:04,474 Speaker 2: Guys, is homework officially a complete waste of time? Because 181 00:09:04,834 --> 00:09:08,354 Speaker 2: this week I fell down an internet whole. It's one 182 00:09:08,394 --> 00:09:10,514 Speaker 2: that I'm pretty late to, I have to admit. It's 183 00:09:10,514 --> 00:09:14,394 Speaker 2: one of Australia's biggest mum influences. Her name's Indy Clinton. Now, 184 00:09:14,394 --> 00:09:16,953 Speaker 2: if you haven't heard of Indy Clinton before, she's one 185 00:09:16,954 --> 00:09:19,514 Speaker 2: of those influences that it's like, yeah, it's either all 186 00:09:19,634 --> 00:09:21,794 Speaker 2: or nothing. This is what Stacey tells me. Either you 187 00:09:21,914 --> 00:09:23,634 Speaker 2: know exactly who she is and all of her law, 188 00:09:23,754 --> 00:09:24,994 Speaker 2: or you've never heard of her in your life. 189 00:09:25,114 --> 00:09:27,434 Speaker 3: Yes, I know everything about this woman and her life 190 00:09:27,514 --> 00:09:30,154 Speaker 3: and her children, sometimes against my will, but I really 191 00:09:30,314 --> 00:09:30,754 Speaker 3: enjoy her. 192 00:09:30,874 --> 00:09:31,314 Speaker 1: She's great. 193 00:09:31,314 --> 00:09:33,194 Speaker 4: You can see why she's as popular as she is. 194 00:09:33,434 --> 00:09:34,234 Speaker 4: Very smart woman. 195 00:09:34,394 --> 00:09:36,874 Speaker 2: She has two million followers. Her vibe is very much 196 00:09:36,954 --> 00:09:39,554 Speaker 2: relatable chaos. So, you know, in the US we're seeing 197 00:09:39,554 --> 00:09:42,274 Speaker 2: all these mum influences that are very beautiful. It's a 198 00:09:42,274 --> 00:09:45,434 Speaker 2: lot of beige clothing and sour dough making in the kitchen. 199 00:09:45,874 --> 00:09:49,954 Speaker 2: She is not that. She's sort of chaos color. She's 200 00:09:50,074 --> 00:09:53,394 Speaker 2: very likable, very funny. She has three kids, and her 201 00:09:53,474 --> 00:09:56,874 Speaker 2: oldest child just started school this year, and she's having 202 00:09:56,914 --> 00:09:58,034 Speaker 2: a lot of feelings about it. 203 00:09:58,074 --> 00:09:59,914 Speaker 1: I'm not ready for your mum. Sorry, I'm meant to 204 00:09:59,954 --> 00:10:01,674 Speaker 1: have a child at school in two weeks and I 205 00:10:01,714 --> 00:10:03,474 Speaker 1: didn't even know P and C that. I don't know 206 00:10:03,474 --> 00:10:05,914 Speaker 1: if I'm loutling in my faith for so many questions, 207 00:10:05,994 --> 00:10:08,074 Speaker 1: like I have to lunchbox morning tick and then a 208 00:10:08,114 --> 00:10:08,874 Speaker 1: crunch and sip. 209 00:10:11,554 --> 00:10:13,074 Speaker 6: Do I volunteer something carnivals? 210 00:10:13,114 --> 00:10:14,274 Speaker 1: Guy, I can't do maths? 211 00:10:14,354 --> 00:10:15,674 Speaker 6: How do I help with homework? 212 00:10:16,074 --> 00:10:17,994 Speaker 1: I genuinely don't know my times tables. 213 00:10:18,114 --> 00:10:19,154 Speaker 2: I love her, I love it. 214 00:10:19,194 --> 00:10:23,474 Speaker 4: I don't know time there is lunchbox creep kids these 215 00:10:23,554 --> 00:10:24,994 Speaker 4: days have too many lunchboxes. 216 00:10:25,394 --> 00:10:27,994 Speaker 2: Yeah, no one warns you about that anyway. Amongst the 217 00:10:28,074 --> 00:10:31,514 Speaker 2: lunchbox confessionals and sort of the daily videos about her life, 218 00:10:31,634 --> 00:10:34,434 Speaker 2: she posted two things this week that absolutely blew up. 219 00:10:34,514 --> 00:10:36,914 Speaker 2: The first one was just sort of a static image 220 00:10:36,954 --> 00:10:40,714 Speaker 2: of her at the kitchen table and it said everyone's 221 00:10:40,754 --> 00:10:44,354 Speaker 2: first time doing homework together. This has three point five 222 00:10:44,434 --> 00:10:46,594 Speaker 2: million views. And then a few days later she did 223 00:10:46,634 --> 00:10:50,514 Speaker 2: another one, which was her again at the kitchen table, 224 00:10:50,874 --> 00:10:53,594 Speaker 2: and it says day five of being a school teacher 225 00:10:53,674 --> 00:10:55,834 Speaker 2: and I give up. It was a lot of this. 226 00:10:55,914 --> 00:10:57,754 Speaker 2: I'll play you a little snippet and it's hard to 227 00:10:57,794 --> 00:11:01,114 Speaker 2: discern entirely what's happening, so I'll just explain it. So 228 00:11:01,154 --> 00:11:04,194 Speaker 2: it's her at the kitchen bench while her son very 229 00:11:04,554 --> 00:11:07,714 Speaker 2: slowly spells out words mostly wrong. 230 00:11:07,954 --> 00:11:11,314 Speaker 1: I said it, yeah, no, no, this letter, I. 231 00:11:14,074 --> 00:11:15,713 Speaker 7: Well close. 232 00:11:17,074 --> 00:11:25,954 Speaker 1: Was what I'm frustrated for her already. Just from that 233 00:11:25,994 --> 00:11:26,953 Speaker 1: little clip, we. 234 00:11:26,954 --> 00:11:30,554 Speaker 2: Can hear she's trying to stay so patient, but in 235 00:11:30,554 --> 00:11:32,994 Speaker 2: the full video she's sort of laughing and kind of bewildered, 236 00:11:33,274 --> 00:11:36,674 Speaker 2: and it's just like, what even is this? And The 237 00:11:36,714 --> 00:11:38,954 Speaker 2: reason this video struck a nerve this week is because 238 00:11:39,034 --> 00:11:41,554 Speaker 2: homework is having a moment right now. For decades, it 239 00:11:41,634 --> 00:11:43,714 Speaker 2: was just kind of what we did. No one really 240 00:11:43,794 --> 00:11:45,914 Speaker 2: questioned it. But now there is this kind of growing 241 00:11:45,994 --> 00:11:49,354 Speaker 2: tide of does it even make sense anymore? And we 242 00:11:49,474 --> 00:11:52,234 Speaker 2: are not teachers. We know teachers have their own feelings 243 00:11:52,274 --> 00:11:54,754 Speaker 2: about it, but we are journalists. So Amelia, we sent 244 00:11:54,794 --> 00:11:55,754 Speaker 2: you out to research this. 245 00:11:55,994 --> 00:11:57,954 Speaker 1: What is Yeah, you had homework? 246 00:11:58,274 --> 00:12:03,274 Speaker 4: Yeah, full disclosure, I don't make my kids do homework, 247 00:12:03,714 --> 00:12:08,274 Speaker 4: and that's because I have a inco eight not necessarily 248 00:12:08,354 --> 00:12:11,914 Speaker 4: evidence based belief that they shouldn't have to do homework. 249 00:12:11,994 --> 00:12:12,274 Speaker 1: Yeah. 250 00:12:12,314 --> 00:12:15,874 Speaker 4: So I am pleased to report that the consensus from 251 00:12:15,914 --> 00:12:19,674 Speaker 4: experts is that homework for young kids, we're talking like 252 00:12:19,874 --> 00:12:23,354 Speaker 4: K to three yep, is a waste of time. A 253 00:12:23,474 --> 00:12:26,434 Speaker 4: University of Melbourne study showed that there was basically no 254 00:12:26,594 --> 00:12:30,914 Speaker 4: correlation between doing homework and achievement for primary students. They 255 00:12:30,994 --> 00:12:32,953 Speaker 4: had a different story when it came to obviously the 256 00:12:32,994 --> 00:12:36,954 Speaker 4: middle and senior years. But that is the big takeaway. Okay, 257 00:12:37,234 --> 00:12:40,554 Speaker 4: some experts think the news gets even better. There's actually 258 00:12:40,674 --> 00:12:44,834 Speaker 4: downsides to doing homework with young kids. Some of these downsides, 259 00:12:44,914 --> 00:12:45,674 Speaker 4: which may sound. 260 00:12:45,554 --> 00:12:46,194 Speaker 1: Familiar to you. 261 00:12:46,674 --> 00:12:51,714 Speaker 4: It contributes to kids exhaustion, It creates family conflict, It 262 00:12:51,754 --> 00:12:55,154 Speaker 4: gives less time for free play and academics themselves, and 263 00:12:55,234 --> 00:12:58,034 Speaker 4: learning becomes a source of frustration, and it dampens a 264 00:12:58,074 --> 00:13:00,274 Speaker 4: love for learning, just when you're meant to be kind 265 00:13:00,314 --> 00:13:03,473 Speaker 4: of inspiring kids to explore the world with wonder and curiosity. 266 00:13:03,754 --> 00:13:07,154 Speaker 4: So that's all good news. There's a caveat, one caveat. 267 00:13:07,514 --> 00:13:10,234 Speaker 4: Some experts think that the point of homework at this 268 00:13:10,354 --> 00:13:13,034 Speaker 4: age is not to teach kids stuff so much as 269 00:13:13,074 --> 00:13:16,394 Speaker 4: to create good habits. And this is not debunked in 270 00:13:16,434 --> 00:13:18,954 Speaker 4: any way. People think, yeah, that makes sense. But even 271 00:13:19,034 --> 00:13:21,754 Speaker 4: those experts who say yeah, it's good for creating habits, 272 00:13:21,874 --> 00:13:24,354 Speaker 4: they say, keep it light and purposeful. 273 00:13:24,874 --> 00:13:28,514 Speaker 1: Light and purposeful. Okay, that doesn't feel as scary, then 274 00:13:28,754 --> 00:13:29,314 Speaker 1: it doesn't. 275 00:13:29,434 --> 00:13:31,034 Speaker 4: And so you want to hear the things that experts 276 00:13:31,034 --> 00:13:33,754 Speaker 4: say you should do instead of homework little kids, please, Yeah, 277 00:13:33,754 --> 00:13:36,994 Speaker 4: they need lots of sleep, they need unstructured play, and 278 00:13:37,074 --> 00:13:39,354 Speaker 4: you do need to read too or with them. These 279 00:13:39,354 --> 00:13:41,714 Speaker 4: things are all super important. And if you really want 280 00:13:41,714 --> 00:13:44,754 Speaker 4: to rule of thumb, they suggest a ten minute rule 281 00:13:44,794 --> 00:13:49,874 Speaker 4: per grade level. So kindergarten zero minutes, you one, ten minutes, 282 00:13:50,074 --> 00:13:52,114 Speaker 4: and so on two, yeah, twenty minutes. 283 00:13:52,394 --> 00:13:55,354 Speaker 2: I think what you're saying about the habit is really valid, 284 00:13:55,754 --> 00:13:57,794 Speaker 2: and I think reading could be the habit that is 285 00:13:57,834 --> 00:13:59,953 Speaker 2: the habit that you do every night that has really 286 00:13:59,994 --> 00:14:00,954 Speaker 2: good outcomes. 287 00:14:01,274 --> 00:14:03,874 Speaker 3: I went to the teachers to ask them. So, I 288 00:14:03,874 --> 00:14:07,274 Speaker 3: have a brilliant teacher friend. I know boots on the 289 00:14:07,314 --> 00:14:08,754 Speaker 3: ground journalism from. 290 00:14:08,634 --> 00:14:11,554 Speaker 4: US, well, sandals on the journals on the ground, very 291 00:14:11,554 --> 00:14:13,714 Speaker 4: old sandals on the ground journalism from US. 292 00:14:14,154 --> 00:14:16,394 Speaker 3: And I asked my brilliant teacher friend. I was like, 293 00:14:16,434 --> 00:14:19,914 Speaker 3: what do you see generally like from teachers around thoughts 294 00:14:19,914 --> 00:14:22,394 Speaker 3: around this. She was like, obviously I can't speak for everyone, 295 00:14:22,754 --> 00:14:25,034 Speaker 3: but she was saying, for most teachers, they agree that 296 00:14:25,114 --> 00:14:27,674 Speaker 3: a little bit of reading each night and maybe some 297 00:14:27,834 --> 00:14:32,674 Speaker 3: site words tops in KINDI is plenty. And she said basically, 298 00:14:32,714 --> 00:14:35,914 Speaker 3: for teachers, they hate making the homework, they hate marking it, 299 00:14:36,154 --> 00:14:37,914 Speaker 3: and then they also get feedback a lot of the 300 00:14:37,914 --> 00:14:40,594 Speaker 3: time from some of the parents, so it's just like 301 00:14:40,754 --> 00:14:44,194 Speaker 3: not an enjoyable process for anyone. Really reading is enough 302 00:14:44,394 --> 00:14:45,234 Speaker 3: just kind of doing that. 303 00:14:45,354 --> 00:14:48,794 Speaker 4: So here's my question to the group, Then, why do 304 00:14:48,914 --> 00:14:53,554 Speaker 4: we think that this whole homework thing has become such 305 00:14:53,594 --> 00:14:56,434 Speaker 4: a source of angst when we've got the teachers and 306 00:14:56,554 --> 00:14:59,554 Speaker 4: the researchers saying the same thing that it's actually not 307 00:14:59,794 --> 00:15:02,634 Speaker 4: helpful in any way. Do you think it's part of 308 00:15:02,674 --> 00:15:07,714 Speaker 4: this consumer driven like school as a consumer product Beyonce 309 00:15:07,754 --> 00:15:10,194 Speaker 4: that we find ourselves in where now parents think that 310 00:15:10,194 --> 00:15:13,474 Speaker 4: their kids are products to be optimized and improved and 311 00:15:13,514 --> 00:15:15,754 Speaker 4: they want kind of evidence of that, and homework is 312 00:15:15,794 --> 00:15:16,434 Speaker 4: evidence of that. 313 00:15:16,874 --> 00:15:19,234 Speaker 1: Yes, maybe that's very smart. 314 00:15:19,434 --> 00:15:22,394 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like we're paying for all this education 315 00:15:22,714 --> 00:15:24,634 Speaker 2: now we want a value for our money, so you 316 00:15:24,714 --> 00:15:26,274 Speaker 2: have to bring stuff home in them as well. 317 00:15:26,554 --> 00:15:27,034 Speaker 1: I think so. 318 00:15:27,234 --> 00:15:29,914 Speaker 4: And also this idea of like the school hours are 319 00:15:29,994 --> 00:15:33,194 Speaker 4: no longer enough, that the intellectual enrichment and that the 320 00:15:33,274 --> 00:15:37,354 Speaker 4: learning things has to extend outside of school hours because 321 00:15:37,474 --> 00:15:39,514 Speaker 4: kids need to always be learning. 322 00:15:39,994 --> 00:15:42,354 Speaker 3: But then on the other side of that, I would 323 00:15:42,394 --> 00:15:44,514 Speaker 3: have thought it would go the opposite way, because when 324 00:15:44,554 --> 00:15:46,914 Speaker 3: we were at school, it was like good grades equalled 325 00:15:46,994 --> 00:15:50,554 Speaker 3: lawyer or doctor. Bad grades equaled unemployment. Like that was 326 00:15:50,634 --> 00:15:52,834 Speaker 3: kind of a message you got, right, is that you 327 00:15:52,914 --> 00:15:55,434 Speaker 3: needed those high grades to get into university to do 328 00:15:55,514 --> 00:15:57,714 Speaker 3: the careers that would make you money, and now it 329 00:15:57,754 --> 00:15:59,834 Speaker 3: feels like that's flattened a lot, and that a lot 330 00:15:59,834 --> 00:16:03,034 Speaker 3: of what kids can achieve is not necessarily to do 331 00:16:03,074 --> 00:16:05,354 Speaker 3: with academic success, and we see that a lot more 332 00:16:05,474 --> 00:16:08,754 Speaker 3: like in creative fields. People do so many things to 333 00:16:08,754 --> 00:16:12,554 Speaker 3: be successful, and yet we're all still paranoid about the 334 00:16:12,554 --> 00:16:15,154 Speaker 3: grades at the end of the day. I'm surprised we 335 00:16:15,194 --> 00:16:16,274 Speaker 3: haven't gone the other way. 336 00:16:16,354 --> 00:16:19,034 Speaker 4: Yes, Mon's why do you think homework has become such 337 00:16:19,034 --> 00:16:20,394 Speaker 4: a flashpoint. 338 00:16:19,994 --> 00:16:21,914 Speaker 2: People pushing back on it Because I think that there's 339 00:16:21,914 --> 00:16:24,794 Speaker 2: this growing movement of we need our kids to move 340 00:16:24,834 --> 00:16:28,834 Speaker 2: their bodies, play and be bored. What you said before 341 00:16:28,914 --> 00:16:33,114 Speaker 2: about them constantly being optimized all the time and overscheduled, 342 00:16:33,274 --> 00:16:35,994 Speaker 2: that's a real thing. And anyone that's trying to sit 343 00:16:36,034 --> 00:16:38,194 Speaker 2: at a table at five point thirty to do a 344 00:16:38,194 --> 00:16:40,514 Speaker 2: workship with their kid when their brains are completely fried 345 00:16:40,554 --> 00:16:42,514 Speaker 2: will no, there is no benefit to it. 346 00:16:43,034 --> 00:16:45,994 Speaker 1: There's nothing you can do at five point thirty that's useful. No, 347 00:16:46,074 --> 00:16:47,914 Speaker 1: nothing good happens at that time. 348 00:16:48,594 --> 00:16:51,354 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I also think parents are more afraid now 349 00:16:51,754 --> 00:16:56,114 Speaker 2: there's we know, statistically, let's stay at home mums, more 350 00:16:56,154 --> 00:16:58,754 Speaker 2: women in the workforce, and so it becomes another thing 351 00:16:58,834 --> 00:17:01,354 Speaker 2: on the list of things to do, and so maybe 352 00:17:01,354 --> 00:17:03,754 Speaker 2: it does need to rethink Amelia. If the experts are 353 00:17:03,794 --> 00:17:06,273 Speaker 2: saying this is no benefit here, if the teachers are 354 00:17:06,273 --> 00:17:08,914 Speaker 2: saying we hated anyway, I would love a school to 355 00:17:08,954 --> 00:17:12,274 Speaker 2: put their hand up and say no homework policy caveat. 356 00:17:12,474 --> 00:17:14,754 Speaker 2: I do think in all the year levels it probably 357 00:17:14,834 --> 00:17:15,834 Speaker 2: is useful. 358 00:17:15,434 --> 00:17:17,674 Speaker 1: To prepare them for middle school and high school. 359 00:17:17,354 --> 00:17:19,354 Speaker 2: And it's good for them to have projects to work 360 00:17:19,354 --> 00:17:21,914 Speaker 2: on it home and get out the posters and the 361 00:17:21,954 --> 00:17:23,834 Speaker 2: glue and do a research thing or whatever it is. 362 00:17:23,874 --> 00:17:27,434 Speaker 2: But certainly in those early grades, would anyone miss it 363 00:17:27,474 --> 00:17:28,754 Speaker 2: if it disappeared, I don't think. 364 00:17:28,794 --> 00:17:28,874 Speaker 7: So. 365 00:17:29,834 --> 00:17:31,954 Speaker 4: We're with Indy Clinton. Let's just start at a tiship. 366 00:17:31,994 --> 00:17:33,474 Speaker 4: We're not doing it anymore. 367 00:17:33,114 --> 00:17:36,274 Speaker 2: All right, So homeworks and the bin great news. Other 368 00:17:36,314 --> 00:17:37,874 Speaker 2: great news from this week. You might have seen that 369 00:17:37,914 --> 00:17:41,914 Speaker 2: one of our own has welcomed twins into the world. 370 00:17:42,034 --> 00:17:46,074 Speaker 2: So Jesse Stevens and Luca Levine, both hosts and friends 371 00:17:46,114 --> 00:17:50,154 Speaker 2: of the podcast, have had twins, Harry and Margo. Now 372 00:17:50,154 --> 00:17:54,434 Speaker 2: they're slightly busy, but Luca did send us this message 373 00:17:54,514 --> 00:17:55,874 Speaker 2: from the front lines. 374 00:17:55,994 --> 00:17:57,674 Speaker 6: High Team Luca. 375 00:17:57,754 --> 00:18:01,434 Speaker 8: Here basically a couple of weeks ago, maybe ten days ago. 376 00:18:01,554 --> 00:18:04,514 Speaker 8: Jesse worked me up at four am and said, hey, 377 00:18:05,514 --> 00:18:10,354 Speaker 8: babies are coming. Waters just broke and we weren't expecting 378 00:18:10,354 --> 00:18:13,954 Speaker 8: them for like another six weeks. So we like bundled 379 00:18:13,994 --> 00:18:16,514 Speaker 8: the three year out, little three year old girl into 380 00:18:16,514 --> 00:18:18,634 Speaker 8: the car and I went and dropped Jesse off with 381 00:18:18,714 --> 00:18:22,474 Speaker 8: the maternity ward at a different hospital to the one 382 00:18:22,514 --> 00:18:24,634 Speaker 8: that we were meant to go to because they were 383 00:18:24,634 --> 00:18:27,154 Speaker 8: twins and they were so early, and then went and 384 00:18:27,554 --> 00:18:30,474 Speaker 8: gave our little girl to my parents, which was a 385 00:18:30,514 --> 00:18:32,194 Speaker 8: surprise for them at five am. 386 00:18:32,554 --> 00:18:34,513 Speaker 6: And then Jesse was in hospital. 387 00:18:34,154 --> 00:18:36,514 Speaker 8: For a few days, trying to slow the labor down 388 00:18:36,554 --> 00:18:39,634 Speaker 8: and keep the babies cooking. And then they couldn't wait 389 00:18:39,634 --> 00:18:45,033 Speaker 8: any longer, and little Harry and Margo arrived at about 390 00:18:45,034 --> 00:18:47,034 Speaker 8: six point thirty in the morning by a c section 391 00:18:47,274 --> 00:18:48,274 Speaker 8: on March two. 392 00:18:49,354 --> 00:18:52,754 Speaker 6: And they are all healthy, and Jesse is all healthy. 393 00:18:52,914 --> 00:18:55,954 Speaker 8: We've got about six weeks in Niku ahead of us, 394 00:18:57,034 --> 00:18:58,514 Speaker 8: just because of how early they came. 395 00:18:58,914 --> 00:19:01,874 Speaker 6: But you know, we're all we're all doing well, and 396 00:19:01,914 --> 00:19:02,554 Speaker 6: we're in that. 397 00:19:03,154 --> 00:19:07,634 Speaker 8: Hilarious bubble baby bubble where your brain it doesn't really 398 00:19:07,714 --> 00:19:12,274 Speaker 8: work properly that anyone listening to this pod will probably know. 399 00:19:13,114 --> 00:19:16,874 Speaker 6: And remember all too well. God, what an incredible place 400 00:19:17,114 --> 00:19:17,714 Speaker 6: nick who. 401 00:19:17,594 --> 00:19:21,634 Speaker 8: Is And my goodness, the nurses are just so amazing 402 00:19:21,754 --> 00:19:25,474 Speaker 8: and the people are so lovely, and they just do 403 00:19:25,634 --> 00:19:28,314 Speaker 8: everything to make a very hard experience. 404 00:19:28,834 --> 00:19:29,513 Speaker 6: So much better. 405 00:19:29,834 --> 00:19:34,674 Speaker 8: It's been weird he Jesse got discharged from hospital a 406 00:19:34,714 --> 00:19:38,514 Speaker 8: few days ago. It's been really weird going home without them, 407 00:19:39,434 --> 00:19:41,434 Speaker 8: and I think we've both been struggling with that. 408 00:19:41,874 --> 00:19:44,634 Speaker 6: But we are picking out the. 409 00:19:44,554 --> 00:19:49,914 Speaker 8: Positives, which is that we have a chance to finish 410 00:19:50,034 --> 00:19:54,074 Speaker 8: preparing the nursery and doing all those funny little things 411 00:19:54,114 --> 00:19:56,354 Speaker 8: that we thought we had another five or six weeks. 412 00:19:56,154 --> 00:19:57,513 Speaker 6: For miss you guys. 413 00:19:58,114 --> 00:20:02,714 Speaker 8: Sending all my love from the being back in the 414 00:20:02,754 --> 00:20:09,994 Speaker 8: early days of baby World. I am officially a dad 415 00:20:10,034 --> 00:20:12,874 Speaker 8: of three under three before I'm. 416 00:20:12,714 --> 00:20:15,474 Speaker 6: Thirty, which is weird. 417 00:20:15,874 --> 00:20:19,874 Speaker 8: And I'm sure that once I get through this phase 418 00:20:19,914 --> 00:20:21,594 Speaker 8: of going in and out of Nicku, I'm sure that 419 00:20:21,674 --> 00:20:25,474 Speaker 8: I've got some kind of identity crisis in coming on 420 00:20:25,594 --> 00:20:30,354 Speaker 8: that front. Stay tuned for that coming soon. Lots of love, 421 00:20:30,954 --> 00:20:31,674 Speaker 8: see you go soon. 422 00:20:32,034 --> 00:20:35,194 Speaker 4: Oh that was so lovel He sounded like a man 423 00:20:35,234 --> 00:20:36,194 Speaker 4: with three under three. 424 00:20:36,274 --> 00:20:38,594 Speaker 1: I love you, Luca, made you sound so tired. 425 00:20:39,154 --> 00:20:41,954 Speaker 2: You can almost hear the five o'clock shadow on his beard. 426 00:20:42,234 --> 00:20:45,354 Speaker 4: Yeah, did it take you know when he said that 427 00:20:45,434 --> 00:20:48,474 Speaker 4: people will remember that baby bubble where your brain's not 428 00:20:48,554 --> 00:20:50,114 Speaker 4: working and you're just immersed in it. 429 00:20:50,194 --> 00:20:52,474 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't remember, only any of it. 430 00:20:52,874 --> 00:20:55,714 Speaker 3: My daughter had a stint in special care for a while, 431 00:20:55,754 --> 00:20:57,874 Speaker 3: and it is the weirdest. You feel like you're in 432 00:20:57,874 --> 00:21:01,154 Speaker 3: an alternate universe because it doesn't go how you thought 433 00:21:01,154 --> 00:21:02,954 Speaker 3: it was going to go, and you're kind of going 434 00:21:02,954 --> 00:21:04,954 Speaker 3: back to your room or back to your house without 435 00:21:04,954 --> 00:21:07,594 Speaker 3: your baby. But it is I do back on it 436 00:21:07,634 --> 00:21:10,354 Speaker 3: as terrifying as it felt, but it was special, like 437 00:21:10,514 --> 00:21:13,394 Speaker 3: I would go back there again if I could, to 438 00:21:13,474 --> 00:21:16,074 Speaker 3: that blur, because it does feel like you can't really 439 00:21:16,514 --> 00:21:18,073 Speaker 3: grasp it, like the memory of it. 440 00:21:18,074 --> 00:21:19,474 Speaker 1: It is such a weird bubble. 441 00:21:19,554 --> 00:21:22,474 Speaker 4: I'm glad that you pulled out that thread about babies 442 00:21:22,514 --> 00:21:25,793 Speaker 4: being in the nicqu and special care because one of 443 00:21:25,794 --> 00:21:28,474 Speaker 4: my babies was also in special care for a few weeks, 444 00:21:28,594 --> 00:21:32,114 Speaker 4: and anyone who's listening knows that that's a club that 445 00:21:32,394 --> 00:21:36,714 Speaker 4: is hard to understand unless you've had experience in it. 446 00:21:37,394 --> 00:21:42,434 Speaker 4: I was surprised by how difficult it was because that 447 00:21:42,594 --> 00:21:46,313 Speaker 4: sounds crazy and naive, but I just didn't understand that 448 00:21:46,434 --> 00:21:49,354 Speaker 4: the concept of giving birth and then leaving a hospital 449 00:21:49,474 --> 00:21:53,994 Speaker 4: without your baby would go against everything that you feel 450 00:21:54,034 --> 00:21:55,513 Speaker 4: biologically programmed to do. 451 00:21:55,674 --> 00:21:56,954 Speaker 1: Yeah, what was it like? 452 00:21:57,474 --> 00:22:01,234 Speaker 4: I think you just feel like no one can understand 453 00:22:01,234 --> 00:22:03,954 Speaker 4: it unless they've been through it. So I became very 454 00:22:04,114 --> 00:22:08,154 Speaker 4: like socially isolated from my friendship groups and family that 455 00:22:08,194 --> 00:22:11,034 Speaker 4: I would have otherwise leaned on heavily during that period 456 00:22:11,074 --> 00:22:14,954 Speaker 4: because I felt angry and resentful that they couldn't understand it. 457 00:22:15,474 --> 00:22:17,394 Speaker 4: But I guess it's just a reminder that, like, there 458 00:22:17,394 --> 00:22:20,674 Speaker 4: are all sorts of ways in which birth and parenthood 459 00:22:20,794 --> 00:22:25,154 Speaker 4: can go in directions that a contravene your expectations and 460 00:22:25,194 --> 00:22:28,674 Speaker 4: that b can feel very isolating because there are so 461 00:22:28,754 --> 00:22:31,674 Speaker 4: many things that can go awry. Now I think I 462 00:22:31,714 --> 00:22:36,674 Speaker 4: have more ability to understand when that happens to other people. 463 00:22:36,874 --> 00:22:40,194 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And as Luca said, like you do 464 00:22:40,314 --> 00:22:41,994 Speaker 3: just look around and go, oh my gosh, these people 465 00:22:42,034 --> 00:22:45,634 Speaker 3: who work here are just incredible like helping you through 466 00:22:45,674 --> 00:22:49,154 Speaker 3: that in that strange, strange period. So it's so good 467 00:22:49,194 --> 00:22:52,754 Speaker 3: that they've got that around them. And yeah, that those 468 00:22:52,794 --> 00:22:54,833 Speaker 3: babies will be home with them soon's the best. 469 00:22:55,274 --> 00:22:59,674 Speaker 2: Sending our love to those beautiful new babies. They're big 470 00:22:59,714 --> 00:23:06,194 Speaker 2: sister Lunar, Jesse, Luca, Nanamea and a whole family. We're 471 00:23:06,274 --> 00:23:09,354 Speaker 2: so proud of you, guys, and we love you so much. 472 00:23:09,874 --> 00:23:13,554 Speaker 2: We can't wait to see you again for your identity crisis. Luka, 473 00:23:14,914 --> 00:23:17,234 Speaker 2: I can't wait for this segment. I cannot wait for 474 00:23:17,234 --> 00:23:20,313 Speaker 2: this segment. I'm ready, I am ready, I am ready. 475 00:23:20,754 --> 00:23:23,114 Speaker 3: We have been bursting to talk about this, haven't we. 476 00:23:23,754 --> 00:23:27,514 Speaker 3: This is another post that was everywhere this week. Big 477 00:23:27,514 --> 00:23:29,874 Speaker 3: week for parenting, I feel it. So much was going 478 00:23:29,914 --> 00:23:33,114 Speaker 3: on on the internet this week. This story went around 479 00:23:33,274 --> 00:23:37,394 Speaker 3: on Instagram as a carousel, and it has gone everywhere 480 00:23:37,434 --> 00:23:39,513 Speaker 3: like it has gone around the world and then back again. 481 00:23:39,914 --> 00:23:43,754 Speaker 3: A woman named Jana Barrett posted about the fact that 482 00:23:44,034 --> 00:23:47,714 Speaker 3: her ex partner won his second bafter this week and 483 00:23:47,754 --> 00:23:50,874 Speaker 3: all the feelings that came up for her when that occurred. 484 00:23:51,514 --> 00:23:53,313 Speaker 1: So I'm going to read you just a little bit 485 00:23:53,314 --> 00:23:55,074 Speaker 1: of it. She in New Zealand. Is that right? I 486 00:23:55,114 --> 00:23:55,553 Speaker 1: believe so? 487 00:23:55,874 --> 00:23:59,394 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, So she says, my ex just won his 488 00:23:59,474 --> 00:24:01,714 Speaker 3: second bafter this week, and it brought up a lot 489 00:24:01,714 --> 00:24:05,474 Speaker 3: for me. For seventeen years I run absolutely everything, the home, 490 00:24:05,594 --> 00:24:08,874 Speaker 3: the children, and all the invisible labor that never made 491 00:24:08,874 --> 00:24:11,793 Speaker 3: it into an acceptance speech. He went to work, and 492 00:24:11,874 --> 00:24:15,954 Speaker 3: I made that possible. Three kids, constant travel, no paternity leave. 493 00:24:16,314 --> 00:24:19,914 Speaker 3: I didn't think twice. Behind many celebrated men is a 494 00:24:19,954 --> 00:24:23,274 Speaker 3: woman whose labor made that achievement possible and her. 495 00:24:23,154 --> 00:24:27,994 Speaker 4: Name is never on the award. Wow, it's a goodie. 496 00:24:28,034 --> 00:24:30,273 Speaker 3: She goes on to talk about the fact that he 497 00:24:30,354 --> 00:24:32,914 Speaker 3: looked after her in the separation. It was nothing of 498 00:24:33,034 --> 00:24:36,033 Speaker 3: him not being a good co parent to her or 499 00:24:36,074 --> 00:24:38,674 Speaker 3: anything like that, but it was more about the fact 500 00:24:38,714 --> 00:24:41,554 Speaker 3: that she was having to start over at forty without 501 00:24:41,594 --> 00:24:43,674 Speaker 3: the awards to show for that, that she was the 502 00:24:43,714 --> 00:24:47,394 Speaker 3: one that gave up that role while he got the accolades. 503 00:24:47,874 --> 00:24:50,354 Speaker 3: And the response was huge. 504 00:24:50,714 --> 00:24:53,074 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. When she said in this post, she says, 505 00:24:53,194 --> 00:24:57,234 Speaker 2: no one talks about what I did to make that happen. Lady, 506 00:24:57,514 --> 00:25:00,474 Speaker 2: I am here to tell you we are talking about it, 507 00:25:00,514 --> 00:25:02,554 Speaker 2: and not only that the whole world is now talking 508 00:25:02,634 --> 00:25:05,594 Speaker 2: about it, but before that, I bet your friends were 509 00:25:05,594 --> 00:25:08,194 Speaker 2: talking about it too, and the the school mums and 510 00:25:08,354 --> 00:25:12,634 Speaker 2: everybody noticed. So for putting this on like a public stage, 511 00:25:12,714 --> 00:25:16,234 Speaker 2: a global stage. Thank you, because this is a conversation 512 00:25:16,354 --> 00:25:20,554 Speaker 2: that happens in every parent group that I know right now, 513 00:25:20,994 --> 00:25:25,874 Speaker 2: It's true no one talks about the wives. And I 514 00:25:25,874 --> 00:25:29,074 Speaker 2: put that in in verticommas because yeah, it is this 515 00:25:29,554 --> 00:25:31,114 Speaker 2: wife drought that we're talking about. 516 00:25:31,434 --> 00:25:34,634 Speaker 4: I got really curious about her story. Yeah, and it 517 00:25:34,714 --> 00:25:39,154 Speaker 4: seems like she now runs her own fitness brand, right, Yeah, 518 00:25:39,434 --> 00:25:44,074 Speaker 4: it specializes I love that she specializes in helping women 519 00:25:44,234 --> 00:25:49,274 Speaker 4: over forty regain their physical fitness after children, because that's 520 00:25:49,314 --> 00:25:51,833 Speaker 4: another thing that no one talks about and that they 521 00:25:51,834 --> 00:25:52,834 Speaker 4: should be talking about. 522 00:25:52,994 --> 00:25:55,794 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was funny when she first posted, you 523 00:25:55,834 --> 00:25:58,194 Speaker 3: would think, oh, well, none of our husbands are out 524 00:25:58,194 --> 00:25:59,754 Speaker 3: there winning two baptists, Like. 525 00:25:59,954 --> 00:26:01,474 Speaker 1: How relatable really is this? 526 00:26:01,794 --> 00:26:04,513 Speaker 3: But it was that everyone in the comments were saying, 527 00:26:04,914 --> 00:26:07,434 Speaker 3: you know, my partner then went on and was really 528 00:26:07,434 --> 00:26:09,714 Speaker 3: successful with the business that I helped him set up, 529 00:26:09,794 --> 00:26:11,914 Speaker 3: Like I did the legwork of that. Like everyone had 530 00:26:11,954 --> 00:26:14,874 Speaker 3: their own story of doing that, and a lot of people, 531 00:26:14,954 --> 00:26:18,434 Speaker 3: as you said, Amelia, had that point of well now 532 00:26:18,474 --> 00:26:20,874 Speaker 3: what do I do? Like they when they've kind of 533 00:26:20,914 --> 00:26:23,034 Speaker 3: the duster settled and they're at that point where they 534 00:26:23,074 --> 00:26:25,273 Speaker 3: weren't the one that pursued their career. 535 00:26:25,594 --> 00:26:26,274 Speaker 1: What do you do? 536 00:26:26,714 --> 00:26:26,954 Speaker 6: Then? 537 00:26:27,194 --> 00:26:29,914 Speaker 4: I just read a really buzzy memoir that came out 538 00:26:29,954 --> 00:26:33,394 Speaker 4: this year by an author called Bell Burden, and it's 539 00:26:33,434 --> 00:26:37,674 Speaker 4: called Strangers. And she is a New York based writer 540 00:26:38,034 --> 00:26:41,874 Speaker 4: who basically did the exact same thing as Yanna did 541 00:26:41,954 --> 00:26:45,594 Speaker 4: and supported her husband as he climbed the ranks in 542 00:26:45,914 --> 00:26:49,714 Speaker 4: the New York finance world. Along the way, he made 543 00:26:49,714 --> 00:26:52,074 Speaker 4: a lot of money. The memoir is a lot about 544 00:26:52,114 --> 00:26:55,714 Speaker 4: how they resolved financial disagreements when they came to the divorce, 545 00:26:55,874 --> 00:26:59,553 Speaker 4: and to what extent she was deserving of or owed 546 00:26:59,874 --> 00:27:02,274 Speaker 4: money that he had made off the back of her 547 00:27:02,314 --> 00:27:06,114 Speaker 4: emotional and household and domestic labor. So if people are 548 00:27:06,114 --> 00:27:09,194 Speaker 4: interested in that top I think it's a really fascinating 549 00:27:09,234 --> 00:27:13,954 Speaker 4: look at what goes into propping up the incredibly powerful 550 00:27:14,154 --> 00:27:15,194 Speaker 4: successful man. 551 00:27:15,794 --> 00:27:19,114 Speaker 2: Yeah. I sleuthed the comments on this so hard, like 552 00:27:19,154 --> 00:27:21,754 Speaker 2: we talked about doing journalistic work before. While I was 553 00:27:21,834 --> 00:27:24,674 Speaker 2: digging deep into the comments, may I read you my favorite? 554 00:27:24,714 --> 00:27:25,394 Speaker 1: Please? 555 00:27:25,914 --> 00:27:29,034 Speaker 2: My favorite was the best friend who was in there 556 00:27:29,114 --> 00:27:33,553 Speaker 2: saying love this, Jenny, Oh, that's so good. This was 557 00:27:33,594 --> 00:27:37,034 Speaker 2: my reaction when I'd heard he'd won again. I saw 558 00:27:37,154 --> 00:27:39,634 Speaker 2: all of what you were doing during that time. I'm 559 00:27:39,634 --> 00:27:42,394 Speaker 2: glad you said this out loud. I love you bad. 560 00:27:42,914 --> 00:27:43,874 Speaker 2: I just loved that. 561 00:27:45,914 --> 00:27:46,754 Speaker 1: What a legend. 562 00:27:47,114 --> 00:27:48,754 Speaker 2: And there were a lot of women which was long 563 00:27:48,834 --> 00:27:52,794 Speaker 2: lines of like sames, like this one from a woman 564 00:27:52,794 --> 00:27:56,674 Speaker 2: called Louise who's Australian. My husband is a highly decorated 565 00:27:56,714 --> 00:28:00,073 Speaker 2: military officer and we're happily married with three kids. I 566 00:28:00,154 --> 00:28:03,514 Speaker 2: even kept my career and felt deeply valued by him. 567 00:28:03,834 --> 00:28:08,354 Speaker 2: Yet I still feel this. I even won awards and decorations, 568 00:28:08,354 --> 00:28:11,194 Speaker 2: but most don't see how much harder it was for me. 569 00:28:11,954 --> 00:28:14,314 Speaker 2: I reached the level of burnout that I'll probably spend 570 00:28:14,314 --> 00:28:17,714 Speaker 2: the rest of my life recovering from. And then the 571 00:28:17,794 --> 00:28:20,634 Speaker 2: other side of it. The other tranch of comments were 572 00:28:20,954 --> 00:28:23,434 Speaker 2: mainly around the fact that there's a whole other side 573 00:28:23,474 --> 00:28:25,714 Speaker 2: that we're not considering here, and they were saying things 574 00:28:25,754 --> 00:28:29,314 Speaker 2: like have we not won something far more valuable than 575 00:28:29,474 --> 00:28:32,554 Speaker 2: any bafter? I sometimes wonder if we've framed the prizes 576 00:28:32,554 --> 00:28:35,394 Speaker 2: the wrong way around. The bafters and accolades are visible, 577 00:28:35,474 --> 00:28:37,234 Speaker 2: but being the one who is actually there for your 578 00:28:37,314 --> 00:28:39,754 Speaker 2: children day in and day out is its own kind 579 00:28:39,754 --> 00:28:43,034 Speaker 2: of success, and perhaps the more meaningful one. What you 580 00:28:43,274 --> 00:28:45,474 Speaker 2: got is worth a million bafters. 581 00:28:46,074 --> 00:28:48,834 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that's wrong, but I was. 582 00:28:48,874 --> 00:28:51,594 Speaker 3: It's nothing shiny to put on the mantelpiece if I 583 00:28:51,674 --> 00:28:52,354 Speaker 3: was going to do that. 584 00:28:52,714 --> 00:28:54,874 Speaker 2: It's not wrong, it's very true. But it's not how 585 00:28:54,914 --> 00:28:58,354 Speaker 2: things are rewarded in society. Yeah, it's just not how 586 00:28:58,474 --> 00:29:02,034 Speaker 2: the world works. Unfortunately. This is something that Annabel Krabb, 587 00:29:02,234 --> 00:29:05,234 Speaker 2: she's an Australian journalist, she wrote about brilliantly in her 588 00:29:05,274 --> 00:29:08,314 Speaker 2: book The Wife, How So True? Did this twelve years ago? 589 00:29:08,354 --> 00:29:10,234 Speaker 2: She was so ahead of her game. She wrote this 590 00:29:10,474 --> 00:29:13,234 Speaker 2: amazing book where she said, if you look at all 591 00:29:13,274 --> 00:29:17,794 Speaker 2: the people who succeed at the very highest levels, politicians, business, academia, 592 00:29:18,034 --> 00:29:21,474 Speaker 2: the thing they almost all have in common is a wife, 593 00:29:21,794 --> 00:29:25,514 Speaker 2: not a partner, not a supportive household. It's an actual wife, 594 00:29:25,714 --> 00:29:30,074 Speaker 2: someone doing the invisible adminshit the calendars, the meals, the childcare, 595 00:29:30,114 --> 00:29:32,514 Speaker 2: the logistics, the emotional labor, the medical stuff, all the 596 00:29:32,554 --> 00:29:35,834 Speaker 2: stuff that makes it possible for men to be single 597 00:29:35,914 --> 00:29:40,554 Speaker 2: minded about achievement. I see this in my own life. 598 00:29:40,674 --> 00:29:43,194 Speaker 2: I see it in the Mumamea out Louder's Facebook group 599 00:29:43,274 --> 00:29:48,314 Speaker 2: and the Mumamea families Facebook pages. Women who all want 600 00:29:48,434 --> 00:29:52,474 Speaker 2: careers who all want to have that ambition, but who 601 00:29:52,554 --> 00:29:55,954 Speaker 2: don't have wives and cannot keep everything in the air 602 00:29:56,034 --> 00:29:59,514 Speaker 2: all at once, and this is a major structural problem 603 00:29:59,714 --> 00:30:00,954 Speaker 2: and deeply problematic. 604 00:30:01,154 --> 00:30:03,234 Speaker 4: I think that's a great point and if I can 605 00:30:03,314 --> 00:30:06,994 Speaker 4: extend it outside of like the heterosexual mold from me. 606 00:30:07,754 --> 00:30:10,794 Speaker 4: I read an article that really made me puffer fish 607 00:30:11,194 --> 00:30:13,994 Speaker 4: last week and in out louder law, as you know, 608 00:30:14,114 --> 00:30:17,074 Speaker 4: this means made me really angry. I want to throw 609 00:30:17,114 --> 00:30:18,994 Speaker 4: my phone across the room, but I didn't because phones 610 00:30:19,034 --> 00:30:21,954 Speaker 4: are really expensive. It was in the Atlantic, and it 611 00:30:21,994 --> 00:30:26,114 Speaker 4: was a profile of the American politician Pete Boudhajetge, who 612 00:30:26,274 --> 00:30:29,354 Speaker 4: ran for president in twenty twenty and will probably run 613 00:30:29,394 --> 00:30:33,194 Speaker 4: for president again, and who happens to be gay. And 614 00:30:33,514 --> 00:30:37,234 Speaker 4: in this article he has kind of retreated back into 615 00:30:37,434 --> 00:30:40,514 Speaker 4: raising his two kids that he has with his partner 616 00:30:41,034 --> 00:30:44,074 Speaker 4: in Middle America. And I found there was a lot 617 00:30:44,114 --> 00:30:46,794 Speaker 4: of sexism in the way that choice was presented in 618 00:30:46,834 --> 00:30:50,514 Speaker 4: the article, because it was almost like he's clearly just 619 00:30:50,634 --> 00:30:53,434 Speaker 4: doing this because this is what a politician does before 620 00:30:53,474 --> 00:30:56,834 Speaker 4: they decide to run for office again. No man could 621 00:30:56,874 --> 00:31:01,074 Speaker 4: actually be fulfilled by packing the lunch box and thinking 622 00:31:01,114 --> 00:31:03,914 Speaker 4: about whether he's going to volunteer for the sports carnival 623 00:31:04,074 --> 00:31:07,194 Speaker 4: and what extracurriculars the kids are going to do, and 624 00:31:07,234 --> 00:31:09,514 Speaker 4: it was all written in this kind of skeptical tone 625 00:31:09,514 --> 00:31:12,914 Speaker 4: that he must be doing this because he wants a 626 00:31:12,954 --> 00:31:16,434 Speaker 4: political career. And I think that does men such a 627 00:31:16,514 --> 00:31:20,434 Speaker 4: disservice too, to think that it's only women who would 628 00:31:20,514 --> 00:31:23,234 Speaker 4: choose to look after the kids, or who think that 629 00:31:23,314 --> 00:31:26,154 Speaker 4: it makes sense to look after the kids. And I 630 00:31:26,234 --> 00:31:30,194 Speaker 4: just think we need to broaden out what that sort 631 00:31:30,194 --> 00:31:33,954 Speaker 4: of domestic support role looks like and maybe sometimes it's 632 00:31:33,954 --> 00:31:34,834 Speaker 4: a man doing it. 633 00:31:35,194 --> 00:31:39,954 Speaker 2: So true, and what's fascinating about what Annabel Krab argues 634 00:31:40,074 --> 00:31:43,834 Speaker 2: in this book is that this is wildly interesting and 635 00:31:43,954 --> 00:31:46,034 Speaker 2: shows again like she was kind of ahead of her time. 636 00:31:46,794 --> 00:31:49,714 Speaker 2: She says, the solution isn't to say to women, hey, 637 00:31:50,034 --> 00:31:53,154 Speaker 2: like leaning harder, get up at five am, and like, 638 00:31:53,234 --> 00:31:55,034 Speaker 2: if you want it bad enough, you'll get it, which 639 00:31:55,074 --> 00:31:57,434 Speaker 2: is a message that we've heard before from the Sheryl 640 00:31:57,474 --> 00:31:59,714 Speaker 2: Sandbergs of the world and things like this. What she 641 00:31:59,874 --> 00:32:04,834 Speaker 2: says is actually the real structural fix is men stepping 642 00:32:04,914 --> 00:32:08,234 Speaker 2: up more, but for them to be able to step 643 00:32:08,354 --> 00:32:11,714 Speaker 2: up more and interrupt their careers to the structures are 644 00:32:11,754 --> 00:32:14,434 Speaker 2: not in place for them to do that, Like parental 645 00:32:14,514 --> 00:32:17,834 Speaker 2: leave sucks for them having a flexible job. They'll get 646 00:32:17,834 --> 00:32:21,234 Speaker 2: penalized for that. So, like you say, those things that 647 00:32:21,314 --> 00:32:24,354 Speaker 2: allow men to step up more into the domestic sphere 648 00:32:24,674 --> 00:32:27,714 Speaker 2: are not like culturally as available to them or structurally 649 00:32:27,754 --> 00:32:29,874 Speaker 2: as available to them as we think they should be. 650 00:32:29,994 --> 00:32:33,674 Speaker 2: That's what she says. The fix is change of pace. Now, 651 00:32:33,794 --> 00:32:36,714 Speaker 2: let's blow off the rage. Let's talk about the things 652 00:32:36,714 --> 00:32:38,674 Speaker 2: that are making us happy this week. Every week we 653 00:32:38,754 --> 00:32:41,194 Speaker 2: bring you the things that we're trying or buying, or 654 00:32:41,234 --> 00:32:44,034 Speaker 2: listening to or reading, so that when you have a 655 00:32:44,074 --> 00:32:46,354 Speaker 2: spare two minutes, you can think about one of the 656 00:32:46,354 --> 00:32:49,274 Speaker 2: options we present to you. Okay, all right, Stacy, what 657 00:32:49,314 --> 00:32:50,194 Speaker 2: have you got this week? 658 00:32:50,394 --> 00:32:54,234 Speaker 3: Okay, this week it's something to buy. It is called 659 00:32:54,274 --> 00:32:57,154 Speaker 3: the Wavy Talk thermal blow dry brush. 660 00:32:57,434 --> 00:32:57,554 Speaker 7: Oh. 661 00:32:57,594 --> 00:32:59,874 Speaker 1: I've always been curious about the same. 662 00:32:59,714 --> 00:33:01,834 Speaker 3: And it got me at a weak moment. I saw 663 00:33:01,834 --> 00:33:05,034 Speaker 3: someone in a video using like these thermal brushes. 664 00:33:05,634 --> 00:33:07,754 Speaker 1: It was on TikTok. I saw one using it and 665 00:33:07,794 --> 00:33:08,354 Speaker 1: I ordered it. 666 00:33:08,394 --> 00:33:10,834 Speaker 4: Basically on the spot you were doing research, I was 667 00:33:10,994 --> 00:33:11,794 Speaker 4: it was research. 668 00:33:12,034 --> 00:33:15,194 Speaker 3: More sandals on the ground journalism from me. I was like, 669 00:33:15,274 --> 00:33:18,274 Speaker 3: I need to try it podcast time. Yeah, flannels on 670 00:33:18,314 --> 00:33:19,914 Speaker 3: the ground heading a tiktop. 671 00:33:21,594 --> 00:33:22,034 Speaker 1: I bought it. 672 00:33:22,114 --> 00:33:23,794 Speaker 3: It was one of those things I barely even remembered. 673 00:33:23,794 --> 00:33:26,034 Speaker 3: I'd bought it my next morning, so it was sixty 674 00:33:26,114 --> 00:33:28,074 Speaker 3: nine bucks. I think they're eighty bucks. They were on 675 00:33:28,194 --> 00:33:30,834 Speaker 3: sale on Amazon for sixty nine, so I bought it. 676 00:33:30,874 --> 00:33:33,034 Speaker 3: I was like, it's fine, I'll try it because I 677 00:33:33,114 --> 00:33:35,514 Speaker 3: find using a hair straight now, which I have used 678 00:33:35,554 --> 00:33:38,274 Speaker 3: on my hair since I was, you know, sixteen years old, 679 00:33:38,794 --> 00:33:41,354 Speaker 3: my hair now has gotten to a point where it's 680 00:33:41,394 --> 00:33:45,594 Speaker 3: somehow like fluffy and flat simultaneous. 681 00:33:44,874 --> 00:33:47,874 Speaker 4: Like Okay, this is simply not true, but you'll have 682 00:33:47,914 --> 00:33:48,514 Speaker 4: to take her word. 683 00:33:48,554 --> 00:33:49,394 Speaker 1: But it's always just. 684 00:33:49,354 --> 00:33:52,754 Speaker 3: Having to every day do it again, like and it's dying, 685 00:33:52,954 --> 00:33:55,194 Speaker 3: Like it's just getting shorter and shorter at the ends 686 00:33:55,194 --> 00:33:58,034 Speaker 3: because I'm frying it. So I wanted to try these 687 00:33:58,074 --> 00:34:00,714 Speaker 3: because they say they're better for damage and for like 688 00:34:00,754 --> 00:34:03,794 Speaker 3: if you've got thinning hair postpartum, they're more gentle on 689 00:34:03,794 --> 00:34:07,554 Speaker 3: your hair, so better for that. And I thought, stupidly 690 00:34:07,634 --> 00:34:10,514 Speaker 3: maybe I thought they made a noise like a blow dryer, 691 00:34:10,714 --> 00:34:13,394 Speaker 3: Like I thought they blow dried your hair from wet 692 00:34:13,433 --> 00:34:16,033 Speaker 3: to dry. No, so you just use it on your 693 00:34:16,114 --> 00:34:19,114 Speaker 3: natural dry hair, So just let your hair dry. You 694 00:34:19,154 --> 00:34:20,634 Speaker 3: can't do it on wed No, you can't do it 695 00:34:20,634 --> 00:34:23,433 Speaker 3: on wet hair. But my hair is so curly and 696 00:34:23,514 --> 00:34:26,034 Speaker 3: unruly and literally one swipe and it. 697 00:34:26,034 --> 00:34:29,194 Speaker 1: Was smooth, smooth. So it just uses heat. 698 00:34:28,994 --> 00:34:32,074 Speaker 3: But with a round brush, but it's gentle heat, so 699 00:34:32,114 --> 00:34:34,154 Speaker 3: it's not like clamping down on your hair. 700 00:34:34,634 --> 00:34:38,034 Speaker 2: It's good you're saving money using this because if you 701 00:34:38,074 --> 00:34:39,834 Speaker 2: had to go and get your hair blow dried at 702 00:34:39,834 --> 00:34:44,314 Speaker 2: a hairdresser's exactly one fifty pop. Yeah, it's half price 703 00:34:44,474 --> 00:34:47,674 Speaker 2: for what's going to do the same thing. Basically, great job, Stacey. 704 00:34:47,834 --> 00:34:49,514 Speaker 3: The back of my head is none of my business 705 00:34:49,514 --> 00:34:52,873 Speaker 3: at the moment. I'm still perfecting the technique, so don't 706 00:34:52,914 --> 00:34:53,514 Speaker 3: look back. 707 00:34:53,354 --> 00:34:54,674 Speaker 1: There because it's not great. 708 00:34:55,154 --> 00:34:57,234 Speaker 3: But yeah, I like it, and I think it's better 709 00:34:57,234 --> 00:34:59,354 Speaker 3: if you're kind of ov your hair straight now, just 710 00:34:59,394 --> 00:35:01,473 Speaker 3: to try one of these if you're trying to grow your. 711 00:35:01,354 --> 00:35:03,994 Speaker 1: Hair, great hair. Yeah, what have you got this week? 712 00:35:04,394 --> 00:35:08,154 Speaker 4: I am going to recommend the Babe Said as Little 713 00:35:08,234 --> 00:35:17,634 Speaker 4: Sister graphic novels series now like Babysitters Class, Yeah, Club 714 00:35:18,394 --> 00:35:22,954 Speaker 4: Christy Marianne, Claudia and Stacy ring a bell for anyone. 715 00:35:23,554 --> 00:35:26,314 Speaker 4: You will love to give your children these books and 716 00:35:26,514 --> 00:35:29,154 Speaker 4: insist on reading them with them. They are based on 717 00:35:29,314 --> 00:35:32,554 Speaker 4: Anne M. Martin's novels. The covers say that they're for 718 00:35:32,714 --> 00:35:36,154 Speaker 4: ages eight to twelve, but the characters are in year two, 719 00:35:36,834 --> 00:35:40,114 Speaker 4: so I think that there's a wide range of kids 720 00:35:40,154 --> 00:35:43,634 Speaker 4: to whom these books would appeal, and their graphic novels, 721 00:35:43,634 --> 00:35:46,114 Speaker 4: so they're fun to read together. I'm reading them to 722 00:35:46,274 --> 00:35:49,834 Speaker 4: my year one and it's safe to say that I'm 723 00:35:49,834 --> 00:35:54,274 Speaker 4: as Transiitts as she is because I absolutely loved that series, 724 00:35:54,634 --> 00:35:55,114 Speaker 4: lived it. 725 00:35:55,234 --> 00:35:58,714 Speaker 1: Favorite character, Claudia, I mean, Stacy obviously had to be. 726 00:36:00,314 --> 00:36:03,714 Speaker 2: Claudia was so cool that creative one loved her. Do 727 00:36:03,754 --> 00:36:05,954 Speaker 2: you know I think that that book series gave me 728 00:36:06,034 --> 00:36:11,114 Speaker 2: like this entrepreneurial streak, very entrepreneurial, are Yeah. 729 00:36:10,394 --> 00:36:12,554 Speaker 4: And also the graphic novels do this thing that I 730 00:36:12,594 --> 00:36:15,154 Speaker 4: loved from the books. Do you remember how in the books, 731 00:36:15,234 --> 00:36:20,274 Speaker 4: every single book always introduced each character like a thumbnail 732 00:36:20,354 --> 00:36:23,234 Speaker 4: sketch with every single book, so you'd always like get 733 00:36:23,314 --> 00:36:25,873 Speaker 4: sort of it became almost like familiar and cozy to 734 00:36:25,914 --> 00:36:29,154 Speaker 4: hear how Anne and Martin introduced Stacy and Claudia and 735 00:36:29,554 --> 00:36:31,913 Speaker 4: all the rest of them in particular ways, Claudia with 736 00:36:31,954 --> 00:36:35,073 Speaker 4: her cool ear rings and Dawn with her California cool 737 00:36:35,594 --> 00:36:37,794 Speaker 4: So you get the same thing with the graphic novels. 738 00:36:37,834 --> 00:36:39,994 Speaker 1: They do the fun little introductions at the start of 739 00:36:40,034 --> 00:36:40,714 Speaker 1: each book. 740 00:36:40,514 --> 00:36:42,754 Speaker 4: And I am just loving them. I don't know how 741 00:36:42,794 --> 00:36:45,194 Speaker 4: much they cost because I borrow them from the library. 742 00:36:45,234 --> 00:36:48,473 Speaker 2: Cute, very cool. I'm bringing you something a little bit 743 00:36:48,474 --> 00:36:49,114 Speaker 2: different today. 744 00:36:49,674 --> 00:36:49,834 Speaker 4: You know. 745 00:36:49,874 --> 00:36:51,834 Speaker 2: I mentioned at the start of the show that I'm 746 00:36:51,874 --> 00:36:55,514 Speaker 2: looking for beauty in my algorithm right now. And actually, 747 00:36:55,994 --> 00:36:58,314 Speaker 2: one of the best things that happened to me this 748 00:36:58,394 --> 00:37:02,634 Speaker 2: week online was the response to Timothy Chalomay's comments about 749 00:37:02,674 --> 00:37:05,994 Speaker 2: the opera. Yes, so, in case you missed it, Timothy's 750 00:37:06,034 --> 00:37:08,594 Speaker 2: Challameay was doing an interview. He's nominated for an oscar, 751 00:37:08,674 --> 00:37:11,714 Speaker 2: so he's doing sort of the interview circuit, and he 752 00:37:11,834 --> 00:37:14,474 Speaker 2: mentioned that he would never work in opera or ballet 753 00:37:14,514 --> 00:37:19,033 Speaker 2: because they're dying industries. Basically, no one cares about them. 754 00:37:19,394 --> 00:37:22,994 Speaker 2: And the response has been so heartening. All these ballet 755 00:37:22,994 --> 00:37:26,954 Speaker 2: studios opera studios around the world have all been making 756 00:37:26,954 --> 00:37:29,634 Speaker 2: these social media reels and things saying Oh, nobody cares, 757 00:37:29,674 --> 00:37:32,714 Speaker 2: do they showing that pack towses and standing ovations and 758 00:37:33,034 --> 00:37:36,754 Speaker 2: ballet people training, and it's just been so amazing anyway, 759 00:37:36,794 --> 00:37:40,393 Speaker 2: So my algorithm's full of art and beauty. And then 760 00:37:40,994 --> 00:37:44,234 Speaker 2: I came across this poem Stay with me. It is 761 00:37:44,434 --> 00:37:48,354 Speaker 2: so beautiful. I've gone back to it twice. It's called 762 00:37:48,474 --> 00:37:51,354 Speaker 2: If I Ever Have Boys, and I'm obsessed with it, 763 00:37:51,394 --> 00:37:53,274 Speaker 2: and so is every boy. Mum, I know I'm going 764 00:37:53,314 --> 00:37:56,754 Speaker 2: to read your bit. It's by Dara Fleming, who's this 765 00:37:56,834 --> 00:38:01,033 Speaker 2: Irish poet. If I ever have boys, they'll be dangerous men. 766 00:38:01,594 --> 00:38:05,234 Speaker 2: They'll smile at dogs and children, and be a tonic 767 00:38:05,314 --> 00:38:10,953 Speaker 2: to friends, flowers to their mother just because, and they'll 768 00:38:10,994 --> 00:38:14,274 Speaker 2: be a shoulder for many when the world is too much. 769 00:38:15,314 --> 00:38:18,914 Speaker 2: My boys will know that vulnerability is strength. They won't 770 00:38:18,914 --> 00:38:22,953 Speaker 2: bottle anger. They'll learn how to express. They won't let 771 00:38:22,954 --> 00:38:25,473 Speaker 2: pride be the reason they hide wearing masks while they're 772 00:38:25,514 --> 00:38:29,873 Speaker 2: hurting inside. My boys will be dangerous men. Anyway it 773 00:38:29,914 --> 00:38:33,274 Speaker 2: goes on. It's so beautiful. It's so beautiful. We'll put 774 00:38:33,274 --> 00:38:35,674 Speaker 2: a link in the show notes, and the actual author 775 00:38:35,714 --> 00:38:37,714 Speaker 2: of the poem, Darren Fleming, will probably read it to 776 00:38:37,714 --> 00:38:40,714 Speaker 2: you in his beautiful, lilting Irish accent, which he'll do 777 00:38:40,754 --> 00:38:42,874 Speaker 2: a much better job. And it's one of those things 778 00:38:42,874 --> 00:38:44,234 Speaker 2: that you want to print it out and put it 779 00:38:44,234 --> 00:38:45,274 Speaker 2: in your pocket or something like. 780 00:38:45,354 --> 00:38:46,314 Speaker 1: It's just so beautiful. 781 00:38:46,394 --> 00:38:48,554 Speaker 2: Anyway, that's what I'm bringing you. I'm bringing you beauty 782 00:38:48,554 --> 00:38:49,394 Speaker 2: in art today. 783 00:38:49,594 --> 00:38:52,913 Speaker 1: We loved it, Thank you, I loved it one. 784 00:38:52,754 --> 00:38:55,393 Speaker 2: All right, Well, that is all we have time for 785 00:38:55,634 --> 00:38:57,914 Speaker 2: today on Parenting Out Loud, Hey, thank you for spending 786 00:38:57,954 --> 00:39:00,234 Speaker 2: your time with us, for clicking play, for hitting follow. 787 00:39:00,794 --> 00:39:03,594 Speaker 2: We really do appreciate it, and a huge thanks to 788 00:39:03,634 --> 00:39:07,393 Speaker 2: our team. We had junior content producer Tessa Kotovich, our 789 00:39:07,434 --> 00:39:11,873 Speaker 2: audio producer Leah Porges, our executive producer Sashotanic, our other 790 00:39:11,914 --> 00:39:16,194 Speaker 2: executive producer to listen, Bizaz and group ep is Ruth Devine. 791 00:39:16,354 --> 00:39:19,114 Speaker 2: Have a great week. We'll be back next Saturday morning. 792 00:39:19,394 --> 00:39:23,554 Speaker 1: Bye bye bye, Mamma. 793 00:39:23,594 --> 00:39:26,513 Speaker 3: Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which 794 00:39:26,514 --> 00:39:27,873 Speaker 3: we have recorded this podcast.