WEBVTT - The Very Famous Australian In Complete Free Fall 0:00:10.327 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:23.727 that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to 0:00:23.767 --> 0:00:26.367 Mamma Mia. Out loud, what women are actually talking about 0:00:26.487 --> 0:00:30.047 on Wednesday, the eighteenth of September. I'm Holly Waynwright. Sorry 0:00:30.047 --> 0:00:35.127 I forgot that part. I'm Holly Wayne Right, I'm and. 0:00:35.087 --> 0:00:36.287 I'm jeffew Stevens. 0:00:37.367 --> 0:00:38.367 I got me who I. 0:00:38.447 --> 0:00:41.767 Was for a moment. It's not surprising brain was wondering. 0:00:42.167 --> 0:00:44.647 I'm back in the room and on the show. Today. 0:00:45.087 --> 0:00:48.927 Instagram is finally doing something about teenagers on its app, 0:00:49.007 --> 0:00:52.047 but others think this is just a parental cop out. 0:00:52.527 --> 0:00:56.847 We unpack Also, are you terrified of breaking a streak? 0:00:57.287 --> 0:00:59.367 When does a self improvement have it become an addiction? 0:00:59.487 --> 0:01:03.967 And what are hours? And a very famous Australian man 0:01:04.127 --> 0:01:06.367 is in complete public free fall? 0:01:06.927 --> 0:01:08.327 Is it time to look away? 0:01:08.767 --> 0:01:10.807 But for us Jesse steven. 0:01:10.807 --> 0:01:13.407 In case you missed it, as a close personal friend 0:01:13.567 --> 0:01:16.847 of both Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez, I am at 0:01:17.047 --> 0:01:19.367 my wit tend Matt Damon and I we've been on 0:01:19.407 --> 0:01:19.927 the phone. 0:01:20.087 --> 0:01:20.807 I bet you have. 0:01:21.087 --> 0:01:23.287 We have because where we are in the same boat. 0:01:23.367 --> 0:01:26.207 The benefit support what'sapp groups must be going. 0:01:26.167 --> 0:01:27.647 There's Ben again. 0:01:27.927 --> 0:01:29.767 Yes, that's what we call our group. 0:01:29.887 --> 0:01:31.847 Oh no, not Ben again. 0:01:32.527 --> 0:01:35.967 We event and we rage. And this is because on Saturday, 0:01:36.647 --> 0:01:40.087 Ben and Jen were pictured having brunch together with afflex 0:01:40.167 --> 0:01:44.327 two kids and Lopez's twins, and apparently the reports are 0:01:44.327 --> 0:01:47.007 that they were kissing and Affleck couldn't keep his hands 0:01:47.047 --> 0:01:47.647 off Lopez. 0:01:47.807 --> 0:01:51.207 I raise reports denied, Well, there was one report that 0:01:51.327 --> 0:01:53.407 said that, and then the other reports, plus some of 0:01:53.447 --> 0:01:56.727 the photos showed him what looked to be shouting at 0:01:56.727 --> 0:01:58.727 her baldy language was awful. 0:01:58.807 --> 0:02:01.407 I don't ah, but some of the ones I saw 0:02:01.407 --> 0:02:02.727 they were very very close. 0:02:02.887 --> 0:02:04.727 They arrived together in a car. I don't know what's 0:02:04.767 --> 0:02:07.967 going on. I don't know why they would do the 0:02:08.007 --> 0:02:10.247 pat walk and go to I think it was such 0:02:10.247 --> 0:02:13.167 a famous so where they know they are going to be. 0:02:13.207 --> 0:02:15.327 Perhaps it was a pet walk, right, So what are 0:02:15.327 --> 0:02:17.527 they trying to achieve with a pet walk? They don't 0:02:17.567 --> 0:02:20.407 need to be in the media more. I guess if 0:02:20.407 --> 0:02:23.727 they want to send a message, stop writing. It's just 0:02:23.847 --> 0:02:25.327 started a whole new cycle. 0:02:25.527 --> 0:02:27.887 Ye pressure, and she had her engagement ring on her 0:02:27.927 --> 0:02:28.527 pinky finger. 0:02:28.647 --> 0:02:30.047 Do you think they're getting back together? 0:02:30.647 --> 0:02:31.607 I don't. 0:02:31.967 --> 0:02:35.727 But I don't think that this helped with the rumors 0:02:35.847 --> 0:02:36.807 because's a friend. 0:02:36.847 --> 0:02:41.287 I'm concerned the divorce announcement, and then can't keep our 0:02:41.287 --> 0:02:42.687 hands off each other. Maybe whatever. 0:02:42.727 --> 0:02:46.727 I'm so tired, I know, right, it's like, really, what. 0:02:46.607 --> 0:02:47.287 Do I say to Jen? 0:02:47.687 --> 0:02:49.847 What do I say? You say, No, that man is 0:02:49.887 --> 0:02:51.807 not going to change. That's what you say. He's not 0:02:51.807 --> 0:02:53.407 going to change. You think he's going to change, He's 0:02:53.447 --> 0:02:56.567 not going to change. Just keep moving forward. 0:02:56.687 --> 0:02:58.167 What Matt Damon was trying to tell her. 0:02:58.087 --> 0:03:00.567 Okay, I feel as though their kids are close, and 0:03:01.087 --> 0:03:03.487 what I saw was two people who want what is 0:03:03.487 --> 0:03:05.367 best for their kids. And in the reports it said, 0:03:05.407 --> 0:03:06.847 you know, they want to make sure their kids are 0:03:06.847 --> 0:03:09.047 still hanging out. The big question is, of course, couldn't 0:03:09.047 --> 0:03:10.887 they hang out in the backyard in a private location. 0:03:11.007 --> 0:03:13.527 Well, the kids are not little kids now. The kids 0:03:13.527 --> 0:03:17.607 do hang out together, I think. But also it is 0:03:17.727 --> 0:03:21.527 genuinely really tricky when you've got a blended family and 0:03:21.887 --> 0:03:26.527 the two parents bring children into their relationship. I've seen 0:03:26.567 --> 0:03:28.527 this play out a number of times, and the kids 0:03:28.567 --> 0:03:31.927 become really close to their step siblings and then they 0:03:32.047 --> 0:03:35.327 just part ways, and it's not like when you know 0:03:35.447 --> 0:03:39.407 two parents and their biological children. If the two parents split, 0:03:39.407 --> 0:03:41.967 the biological children will see both and they'll probably the 0:03:42.047 --> 0:03:45.567 kids will stay together and will go between parents. But 0:03:45.727 --> 0:03:48.727 when it's everyone came with their own children, they kind 0:03:48.727 --> 0:03:51.007 of leave with their own children, and then the children 0:03:51.047 --> 0:03:54.527 don't see the other parents and relationship siblings, Yeah, what 0:03:54.647 --> 0:03:58.407 is that relationship with your former stepfather and your former 0:03:58.527 --> 0:04:00.967 step siblings. It's really tricky. 0:04:01.087 --> 0:04:03.247 I think I'm glad you're seeing so much real life 0:04:03.367 --> 0:04:07.727 in the Benefit saga. I'm just more like past the popcorn. 0:04:08.207 --> 0:04:11.007 They're an automatic set of protections for teens that try 0:04:11.047 --> 0:04:13.727 and proactively address the top concerns that we've heard from 0:04:13.727 --> 0:04:17.807 parents about teens online, things like who can contact them, 0:04:18.167 --> 0:04:21.207 what content they see, and how much time they spend 0:04:21.407 --> 0:04:22.167 on their device. 0:04:22.567 --> 0:04:27.007 Instagram's about to change dramatically for teenagers is the breaking news, 0:04:27.047 --> 0:04:30.287 and they are not going to be thrilled. But anyone 0:04:30.327 --> 0:04:33.047 losing sleep over how much sleep teens are losing because 0:04:33.047 --> 0:04:36.207 of incessant Instagram notifications and the fact that social media 0:04:36.287 --> 0:04:40.327 has been proven to cause major harm to kids and teens, well, 0:04:40.367 --> 0:04:42.847 it is a good day for you. You might remember 0:04:42.927 --> 0:04:46.287 last week we spoke about how the government announced that 0:04:46.367 --> 0:04:48.127 they would be looking at the banning of kids from 0:04:48.207 --> 0:04:49.287 using social media. 0:04:49.367 --> 0:04:52.007 We're looking at the range between fourteen and sixteen. 0:04:52.367 --> 0:04:54.767 That's one of the reasons why we're having a trial, 0:04:55.167 --> 0:04:57.207 and what we're looking at is how you deliver it. 0:04:57.287 --> 0:04:59.407 This is a global issue. 0:04:59.447 --> 0:05:02.447 Well since that conversation in the last twenty four hours, 0:05:02.727 --> 0:05:07.607 Instagram has tried to make a preemptive move to avoid 0:05:07.647 --> 0:05:10.407 government regulation. Not just in Australia, but a lot of 0:05:10.407 --> 0:05:12.927 governments are sort of rumbling around the world about this. 0:05:13.607 --> 0:05:16.887 And Instagram, owned of course by Meta, who own Facebook, 0:05:16.927 --> 0:05:20.607 They've announced changes of their own. And the big change 0:05:20.687 --> 0:05:23.767 is that teen accounts are going to be introduced for 0:05:23.887 --> 0:05:27.647 anyone under eighteen. You're not meant to be on Instagram 0:05:27.687 --> 0:05:32.327 anyway under thirteen, So if you're a teenager, starting with Australia, 0:05:32.367 --> 0:05:34.967 the UK, the US and Canada and then rolling out 0:05:35.007 --> 0:05:37.567 for the rest of the world, here are the key changes. 0:05:38.167 --> 0:05:40.847 All teen accounts will be set to private as a default. 0:05:41.207 --> 0:05:43.487 It's going to start happening now. So if you teenage, 0:05:43.567 --> 0:05:46.407 or if a teenage already has an account, presuming that 0:05:46.527 --> 0:05:49.327 they entered their correct air state, which they probably didn't. 0:05:49.767 --> 0:05:52.767 It will be set to private. Followers who the user 0:05:52.807 --> 0:05:55.727 has not accepted, cannot see their content are interact with them. 0:05:55.767 --> 0:06:00.047 That's what private means. Teenage users will automatically be placed 0:06:00.087 --> 0:06:03.487 on a more restrictive setting for sensitive content, such as 0:06:04.087 --> 0:06:08.927 material promoting cosmetic procedures and sexually explicit or violent content. 0:06:09.447 --> 0:06:12.447 No thought, maybe that might have been happening before, seems not. 0:06:13.127 --> 0:06:15.967 An anti bullying feature will filter out offensive words or 0:06:15.967 --> 0:06:19.287 phrases in comments and DM requests, which should go swimmingly 0:06:19.487 --> 0:06:22.207 given that the words that teenagers use aren't even understood 0:06:22.687 --> 0:06:27.647 by anyone. They'll also get a notification which they can ignore, 0:06:28.007 --> 0:06:30.247 to tell them to leave the app after sixty minutes. 0:06:30.247 --> 0:06:33.287 You stay very cynical about it. I was sitting there 0:06:33.327 --> 0:06:35.167 going that sounds good. That sounds good. 0:06:35.247 --> 0:06:37.647 Have you met a teenager? The interesting one also is 0:06:37.647 --> 0:06:40.367 that sleep mode will be automatically turned on for all 0:06:40.407 --> 0:06:43.367 teen accounts between ten pm and seven am, which means 0:06:43.367 --> 0:06:47.487 that they'll get no notifications. Now, if you're sixteen or seventeen, 0:06:47.687 --> 0:06:50.447 you can opt out of all of those settings, but 0:06:50.527 --> 0:06:54.047 if you're fifteen or younger you'll need a parent or 0:06:54.047 --> 0:06:57.607 guardian's permission to do so, or your teenager will just 0:06:57.607 --> 0:07:00.647 get your phone and pretend to be you an opt 0:07:00.647 --> 0:07:01.767 out on your behalf. 0:07:02.047 --> 0:07:05.727 I hear your cynicism. Yeah, but haven't we been yelling 0:07:05.727 --> 0:07:07.807 at metas to do something? And now Meta's done something 0:07:07.807 --> 0:07:10.087 and everyone's going while the teenagers can just override it. 0:07:10.287 --> 0:07:12.247 This is very different to the fact that they just 0:07:12.287 --> 0:07:15.367 shouldn't be on social media. So this is designed to 0:07:15.407 --> 0:07:19.007 plicate governments and parents and make everyone think, oh, they're 0:07:19.047 --> 0:07:22.647 being responsible, they're doing something. Therefore, it takes all the 0:07:22.647 --> 0:07:25.007 wind out of the sales of a total ban, right, 0:07:25.007 --> 0:07:27.407 which is what governments have been talking about, which we 0:07:27.527 --> 0:07:29.247 know is far better for the kids. 0:07:29.367 --> 0:07:32.007 Yes, but that's going to take so much time an 0:07:32.047 --> 0:07:35.767 actual legal ban in different territories around the world. And 0:07:35.847 --> 0:07:37.727 it's interesting you were saying how Australia is not the 0:07:37.727 --> 0:07:40.767 only one. It's not. But we discussed last week the 0:07:40.847 --> 0:07:43.887 social media restrictions that our government are discussing putting in 0:07:44.247 --> 0:07:46.487 are amongst the harshest in the world, and they're talking 0:07:46.487 --> 0:07:48.727 about them in America like everybody's talking about them. 0:07:48.767 --> 0:07:51.607 So I but that's why this is happening whole No 0:07:51.687 --> 0:07:52.047 I get that. 0:07:52.087 --> 0:07:53.687 I don't want no, no, But my point is it's 0:07:53.687 --> 0:07:55.847 going to take a really long time, so something's better 0:07:55.887 --> 0:07:57.247 than nothing. From my perspective. 0:07:57.447 --> 0:07:59.887 It won't necessarily take a really long time because they 0:07:59.887 --> 0:08:04.887 have bipartisan support for this legislation, so to be lobbied 0:08:04.967 --> 0:08:06.087 about the government, they're. 0:08:05.927 --> 0:08:08.167 Going to be lobbied and lobbied and lobbied by these 0:08:08.207 --> 0:08:10.967 massive like if Australia manages to do it. Nowhere else 0:08:10.967 --> 0:08:13.447 has managed to do it yet, So if Australia manages 0:08:13.447 --> 0:08:16.607 to do it, great, But my perspective is I know 0:08:16.847 --> 0:08:19.647 why they're doing it, and it is cynical. They're trying 0:08:19.687 --> 0:08:23.247 to divert some of this heat. But something is better 0:08:23.287 --> 0:08:23.887 than nothing. 0:08:24.247 --> 0:08:26.607 Yeah, I think that's a bit of a defeatist attitude. Frankly. 0:08:26.687 --> 0:08:29.207 So parents are also going to have some new features 0:08:29.247 --> 0:08:32.007 that they can use, like supervision features. None of these 0:08:32.007 --> 0:08:34.687 features parents will understand how to use. And I am one, 0:08:35.007 --> 0:08:36.247 and I'm very but. 0:08:36.287 --> 0:08:38.567 This sounds simpler than the other things a little bit. 0:08:38.647 --> 0:08:41.007 It's pretty complicated. Have you ever tried to get your 0:08:41.087 --> 0:08:43.167 kids phone and try to make it like it's really hard? 0:08:43.247 --> 0:08:45.847 One hundred percent yes, But and this is exactly why 0:08:45.927 --> 0:08:47.847 they've done it so that people like me who are 0:08:47.927 --> 0:08:50.007 umming and ring about whether or not my teenagers should 0:08:50.007 --> 0:08:53.447 be on Instagram. But this sounds like a really simple 0:08:53.567 --> 0:08:55.527 way for me to be at because I cannot do 0:08:55.567 --> 0:08:58.167 all that parental control stuff. I know I should, and 0:08:58.287 --> 0:09:00.687 I google and I watch YouTube videos about how to 0:09:00.727 --> 0:09:03.407 do it. I find it really confusing soda most parents. 0:09:03.767 --> 0:09:05.567 If I can just from the get go set them 0:09:05.647 --> 0:09:07.967 up with an account that is all these things are 0:09:07.967 --> 0:09:09.407 built into it, that's a good thing. 0:09:09.447 --> 0:09:12.487 But what are they actually so their account won't be 0:09:12.567 --> 0:09:17.007 public like it sounds like a lot, but it's. 0:09:15.807 --> 0:09:18.487 Ten o'clock to get off or like this, which reminder 0:09:20.047 --> 0:09:21.927 I'm like, you need to kick him off. 0:09:22.007 --> 0:09:24.287 Doesn't mean you can't look at it. I just won't 0:09:24.327 --> 0:09:27.287 get push notifications. But you know who also isn't happy. 0:09:27.687 --> 0:09:32.807 Evan Spiegel, our friendly billionaire husband of Miranda Kerr. He's 0:09:32.807 --> 0:09:35.087 the boss of Snapchat. And what's interesting about this is 0:09:35.127 --> 0:09:39.407 that Instagram is not the main game for teenagers and 0:09:39.487 --> 0:09:42.047 Facebook doesn't even exist for them. That's something that their 0:09:42.087 --> 0:09:46.327 grandparents use. They are all on Snapchat and TikTok, and 0:09:46.807 --> 0:09:51.127 the bosses of those social platforms do not agree with 0:09:51.207 --> 0:09:54.607 the Instagram approach, and the loudest pushback has come from 0:09:54.967 --> 0:09:58.327 Evan Spiegel. He's the boss of Snapchat and he's the 0:09:58.407 --> 0:10:00.487 father of their three children, who are too young to 0:10:00.527 --> 0:10:04.167 have phones conveniently, and he says, there's a teenager in 0:10:05.087 --> 0:10:06.927 it's the all Under Bloom one. I think, yeah, yeah, 0:10:06.927 --> 0:10:09.847 it's the Orlando Bloom one. He's fourteen. So he says 0:10:10.607 --> 0:10:13.007 he weighed on not about the Instagram band, but he 0:10:13.087 --> 0:10:17.167 weighed into the idea of Australia's planned social media age band, 0:10:17.487 --> 0:10:19.687 and funnily enough, he's not in favor of Funny that. 0:10:19.847 --> 0:10:22.767 He says, parents have already got these tools today. We 0:10:22.887 --> 0:10:25.487 use the iOS level controls and screen time at our 0:10:25.527 --> 0:10:28.527 house to limit what our teen who's fourteen, what he's 0:10:28.567 --> 0:10:31.607 able to use. We have Family Center as well inside 0:10:31.607 --> 0:10:34.807 of Snapchat that allows parents to monitor their teens activity 0:10:34.847 --> 0:10:38.167 on Snapchat and put in place more stringent content controls 0:10:38.207 --> 0:10:40.967 and things like that. He clearly has not spent much 0:10:40.967 --> 0:10:43.767 time with his fourteen year old, and maybe he has 0:10:43.847 --> 0:10:46.047 because he's the boss of Snapchat, so he understands how 0:10:46.087 --> 0:10:49.327 to work it. Yeah. I have never been more puzzled. 0:10:49.527 --> 0:10:51.567 I tried to get on Snapchat many years ago, like 0:10:51.567 --> 0:10:53.127 a lot of people did, because I like to try 0:10:53.167 --> 0:10:56.927 and understand social platforms from the inside, because I'm always 0:10:56.967 --> 0:10:59.287 a believer. If you don't know the game, you can't 0:10:59.287 --> 0:11:02.807 make the rules. It is so confusing. It felt like 0:11:02.927 --> 0:11:05.767 wandering around in the dark. I didn't understand it. And 0:11:05.887 --> 0:11:08.207 this is where kids are doing all their communicating. So 0:11:08.247 --> 0:11:11.327 we might use group techs, WhatsApp groups, they do all 0:11:11.327 --> 0:11:14.367 of it on Snapchat. So Snapchat is the big game, 0:11:14.407 --> 0:11:16.567 and the big insidious thing that Snapchat has that's so 0:11:17.967 --> 0:11:20.967 I think so awful for teens is the snap maps, 0:11:21.247 --> 0:11:23.007 so you can see where all your friends all are 0:11:23.047 --> 0:11:25.767 at all times, and that means that you can see 0:11:25.807 --> 0:11:27.847 when everybody's at a party or when everybody's at some 0:11:27.967 --> 0:11:30.207 house and you haven't been invited. 0:11:30.527 --> 0:11:33.647 Evan says that Snapchat's really good for well being though. 0:11:33.647 --> 0:11:36.367 Yeah so, and he actually says that they're not even 0:11:36.407 --> 0:11:39.287 really a social media platform, so I shouldn't really be 0:11:39.727 --> 0:11:41.247 included in these exactly. 0:11:41.487 --> 0:11:43.447 So puts it on to parents. He said, we've really 0:11:43.447 --> 0:11:45.367 done a lot to empower parents to make the right 0:11:45.487 --> 0:11:49.247 choices for their teenagers. And again, all those tools already 0:11:49.287 --> 0:11:51.887 exist for parents who would rather restrict the use of 0:11:51.927 --> 0:11:54.407 certain naps for their teens, would we I'd rather they 0:11:54.447 --> 0:11:55.087 just be banned. 0:11:55.527 --> 0:11:58.287 So, as you say, of course he's going to say that, 0:11:58.527 --> 0:12:01.007 I was looking at the data. So most Snapchat users 0:12:01.007 --> 0:12:03.447 are between the ages of thirteen and thirty four. One 0:12:03.487 --> 0:12:05.927 in five are between thirteen and seventeen. 0:12:05.967 --> 0:12:07.807 I think the only one that's thirty four is Evans 0:12:07.847 --> 0:12:10.607 is going to say, yeah, one year old is on Snapchat. 0:12:10.647 --> 0:12:13.767 Oh, I know millions are under the age of twelve. 0:12:13.807 --> 0:12:15.767 So of course it is for little little kids. And 0:12:15.807 --> 0:12:18.567 as you say, it's so rich for a tech founded 0:12:18.567 --> 0:12:20.927 to tell us about the parental controls. We work in 0:12:21.047 --> 0:12:24.367 digital media. We're pretty tech savy. I've never heard of 0:12:24.407 --> 0:12:29.087 the iOS level controls, what the family center something something. 0:12:29.207 --> 0:12:33.247 I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about, Like, 0:12:33.607 --> 0:12:35.567 you are so literate in this in a way that 0:12:35.607 --> 0:12:37.887 parents aren't. And on the Instagram thing, I know that 0:12:38.287 --> 0:12:41.327 you were saying they're doing this, you know, to appease governments, 0:12:41.327 --> 0:12:43.887 and there's been this pushback. On the one hand, I'm 0:12:43.887 --> 0:12:45.927 glad that they've done something, and I really I want 0:12:45.927 --> 0:12:49.287 to pay that the cynic in me is going this 0:12:49.367 --> 0:12:53.327 is a move because they're looking at potentially losing millions 0:12:53.367 --> 0:12:54.527 and millions of users. 0:12:54.607 --> 0:12:56.847 And Adam Assiri said that, he said, it's bad for business, 0:12:56.927 --> 0:12:58.007 but we'll struggle through. 0:12:58.167 --> 0:12:59.887 Yeah, no, no, no, this is good. This is a 0:12:59.927 --> 0:13:03.087 good for business move because the options are because they 0:13:03.167 --> 0:13:05.927 didn't have any of these controls. The Jonathan Heights of 0:13:05.967 --> 0:13:08.167 the world, who's written that very famous book about the 0:13:08.167 --> 0:13:11.207 Anxious Generation, He's spoken a lot about Instagram and mental 0:13:11.247 --> 0:13:15.127 health rates declining with the introduction of Instagram and Snapchat 0:13:15.247 --> 0:13:18.967 and TikTok. The push has been get them off, that's 0:13:18.967 --> 0:13:21.847 the big argument. In fact, parental controls aren't what they're saying. 0:13:21.887 --> 0:13:24.167 They're saying get them off. So they're clearly sitting in 0:13:24.207 --> 0:13:26.447 board meetings going, well, we can't lose them all together. 0:13:26.487 --> 0:13:28.327 We're going to have to make some like this is 0:13:28.367 --> 0:13:32.087 a new product, essentially to tailor it specifically to a 0:13:32.127 --> 0:13:34.687 generation that they can't afford to lose. Like I don't 0:13:34.687 --> 0:13:36.247 think that this is about giving anything. 0:13:36.407 --> 0:13:38.767 The sound you can hear are parents heaving a big 0:13:38.847 --> 0:13:41.927 sigh at the thought of the mental load of having 0:13:41.967 --> 0:13:44.927 to navigate all of this new stuff and what I 0:13:44.967 --> 0:13:47.647 struggle with well, I don't struggle with But my belief 0:13:47.687 --> 0:13:50.887 is that we agree as a society that there are 0:13:50.967 --> 0:13:54.607 certain things that are bad and there are certain things 0:13:54.607 --> 0:13:57.807 that we need to do to protect everyone in our community. 0:13:57.927 --> 0:14:00.087 For example, seat belts. We don't just say, oh, seat 0:14:00.087 --> 0:14:02.447 belts are there, you can use them. We've installed them 0:14:02.447 --> 0:14:04.087 if you want to. But it's up to parents to 0:14:04.127 --> 0:14:06.487 decide whether kids use a seat belt or not. There 0:14:06.527 --> 0:14:09.847 are really strict rules around that. Same with alcohol, with vaping, 0:14:09.847 --> 0:14:13.527 all of these things that we understand. The driving age, 0:14:13.527 --> 0:14:15.687 it's not like parents should be able to decide when 0:14:15.727 --> 0:14:18.567 the kids are able to drive or smoke or drink. 0:14:18.687 --> 0:14:19.487 I'm with you on that. 0:14:19.567 --> 0:14:22.247 But then what Meta is doing. What I appreciate about 0:14:22.247 --> 0:14:24.887 what they're doing is about how automatic it is, like 0:14:25.167 --> 0:14:27.607 is happening overnight. It's not that you need to go 0:14:27.687 --> 0:14:30.207 home tonight. It's not any parent. It doesn't need to 0:14:30.207 --> 0:14:33.367 go and press one hundred buttons. That's going to happen automatically. 0:14:33.567 --> 0:14:36.167 I also think this thing where and it's interesting the 0:14:36.207 --> 0:14:39.567 head of Instagram came out and he was saying he's 0:14:39.567 --> 0:14:41.487 not even going to talk about all the tools they're 0:14:41.487 --> 0:14:45.087 going to use to ensure that teenagers are protected because 0:14:45.087 --> 0:14:47.967 we don't want to give teens an instruction manual. Because 0:14:48.007 --> 0:14:50.047 I find this thing about, well, they're just going to 0:14:50.167 --> 0:14:52.487 use a new VPN. We'll talk about this last week. 0:14:52.527 --> 0:14:53.687 It's like, well they are. 0:14:53.567 --> 0:14:56.927 Now, Well, no, they are, though. Look I'm at the 0:14:57.127 --> 0:15:00.047 absolute coal face of this. Right. My fourteen year old 0:15:00.127 --> 0:15:03.447 daughter uses social media and I have not yet bought 0:15:03.487 --> 0:15:05.767 a phone for my twelve year old son, but he 0:15:06.407 --> 0:15:08.927 will get one in January because he's gone to high school. 0:15:08.927 --> 0:15:12.367 And that, like, it's really interesting. The Jonathan hypebook that 0:15:12.407 --> 0:15:14.407 you mentioned before, when we look back at this time 0:15:14.447 --> 0:15:17.207 of realignment about social media and kids and teens, that 0:15:17.367 --> 0:15:21.127 was an absolute cut through pivotal change. It spoke to 0:15:21.167 --> 0:15:23.967 the right people in the right voices. It was massively influential, 0:15:24.007 --> 0:15:26.487 and it has Remember when we first saw that and 0:15:26.487 --> 0:15:28.367 we talked about it on the show, that big piece 0:15:28.407 --> 0:15:29.967 that was about in New York Times, and I said, 0:15:29.967 --> 0:15:32.527 it's making me feel sick, and we discussed it. That 0:15:32.807 --> 0:15:35.007 is going to be one of the big temp pole 0:15:35.047 --> 0:15:37.927 moments where we all went, Oh, the thing is, as 0:15:37.967 --> 0:15:39.887 I think about, right, I'm going to buy my son 0:15:39.927 --> 0:15:43.087 a phone for high school, and I get a chance 0:15:43.167 --> 0:15:46.127 to do over right what I did with my teenager. 0:15:46.407 --> 0:15:49.487 With all this new information that has come out, particularly 0:15:49.527 --> 0:15:52.007 in the past twelve months, what am I going to 0:15:52.087 --> 0:15:58.567 do differently? Probably nothing, is the God's honest truth, right, 0:15:58.967 --> 0:16:01.407 of course I will. I'm more aware, I've read the things. 0:16:02.007 --> 0:16:04.807 But at the same time, the same social pressures are 0:16:04.807 --> 0:16:07.047 going to be there, particularly for a kid who might 0:16:07.047 --> 0:16:08.927 be a little quirky, a little different. I'll have some 0:16:09.007 --> 0:16:12.367 issue around social relationships. The same issues are going to 0:16:12.407 --> 0:16:14.927 be there that everybody else is on it, everybody else 0:16:15.007 --> 0:16:16.727 is doing it. If I'm not on that, I can't 0:16:16.727 --> 0:16:20.527 talk to blah blah blah. So I actually appreciate, even 0:16:20.607 --> 0:16:23.607 though I am smart woman and I can see absolutely 0:16:23.687 --> 0:16:26.127 the cynicism with which these changes are being made. You're 0:16:26.167 --> 0:16:29.167 one hundred percent right Mia and Jesse about that. They're 0:16:29.207 --> 0:16:31.847 panicking about what they're about to lose, and so they're 0:16:31.887 --> 0:16:34.607 going how can we mitigate? How can we mitigate? I 0:16:34.687 --> 0:16:38.207 appreciate anything that is going to make it really simple 0:16:38.247 --> 0:16:38.487 for me? 0:16:38.767 --> 0:16:39.967 So which parts do you think? 0:16:40.247 --> 0:16:43.647 So I think of making those changes on Instagram automatic 0:16:43.727 --> 0:16:46.207 and immediate, but is really mean which. 0:16:46.087 --> 0:16:48.847 Changes in particular do you think are going to help. 0:16:48.767 --> 0:16:50.287 The fact that all I have to do is make 0:16:50.327 --> 0:16:52.407 my daughter's account. If I give it to her a 0:16:52.447 --> 0:16:55.847 teen account, and it's automatically private, and it's automatically going 0:16:55.927 --> 0:16:58.687 to have various restrictions on it, on content that's served 0:16:58.687 --> 0:17:02.167 to her. That's good. It's better than not. It's not perfect, 0:17:02.327 --> 0:17:02.967 but it's good. 0:17:03.127 --> 0:17:05.287 Wouldn't it be better if she wasn't on it? 0:17:05.327 --> 0:17:07.767 Well, she's not on it, and if I decide to 0:17:07.807 --> 0:17:10.447 do it, it's such a sort of at the moment 0:17:10.567 --> 0:17:13.127 still a very ideological Wouldn't it just be great if 0:17:13.167 --> 0:17:15.087 no kids had phones? Wouldn't it just be great if 0:17:15.087 --> 0:17:17.487 no kids looked at social That's not the world I 0:17:17.567 --> 0:17:20.287 live in. I might live in that if I was 0:17:21.127 --> 0:17:23.647 a very different kind of person with a very different 0:17:23.727 --> 0:17:26.327 kind of life. But actually technology plays quite a big 0:17:26.367 --> 0:17:28.607 part in my life, of my kids' lives, and it's 0:17:28.607 --> 0:17:30.527 going to for the rest of their lives. So but 0:17:30.567 --> 0:17:32.047 what I'm not a fan of the luod eye. 0:17:32.087 --> 0:17:35.407 What we can see, what Instagram have shown us is 0:17:35.407 --> 0:17:38.687 that they can identify all the kids' accounts right everyone 0:17:38.767 --> 0:17:41.607 under eighteen or under sixteen, or under whatever aage, and 0:17:41.647 --> 0:17:45.207 they can apply restrictions so what they could do is say, 0:17:45.887 --> 0:17:49.487 no child under let's just say sixteen needs to be 0:17:49.967 --> 0:17:54.807 on Instagram between ten pm and six a three. So 0:17:54.847 --> 0:17:57.967 you don't just get notifications like do you know what 0:17:58.007 --> 0:18:00.687 I mean? That's why when you actually drill into what 0:18:00.727 --> 0:18:03.767 they're doing and what they could clearly do but aren't doing. 0:18:04.047 --> 0:18:06.527 And I have one hundred percent agree with that, and 0:18:06.567 --> 0:18:08.687 I also I am a fan of the age gating 0:18:08.727 --> 0:18:10.527 of social media apps, I really am, and I hope 0:18:10.567 --> 0:18:13.047 it happens, but it hasn't happened yet, and so we're 0:18:13.087 --> 0:18:15.247 still in the wild West at the moment. Like the 0:18:15.287 --> 0:18:18.807 tweaks are okay, But the place that this gets really 0:18:18.847 --> 0:18:21.647 thorny for parents is what Evan Spiegl's saying, which is like, 0:18:21.687 --> 0:18:24.287 it's your fault. So, for example, with the ten pm 0:18:24.767 --> 0:18:26.567 one rule that I do have in my house and 0:18:26.607 --> 0:18:29.127 it's very strict and we do not breach it is 0:18:29.207 --> 0:18:31.927 no phones in the bedrooms, so after a certain time 0:18:32.047 --> 0:18:35.887 of night, they're not allowed their phones, generally speaking. Enormous 0:18:35.927 --> 0:18:37.927 pushback to that one that Matilda first got a phone 0:18:37.967 --> 0:18:40.007 all that, but now that's just set. That's just the 0:18:40.007 --> 0:18:43.167 way it is. No one argues about it. Anymore. There 0:18:43.207 --> 0:18:44.807 is a point there people will say, well, that's up 0:18:44.847 --> 0:18:46.647 to parents, and that's subjecnt and like some of it is, 0:18:46.687 --> 0:18:48.327 and some of it is easier to do than others. 0:18:48.327 --> 0:18:51.687