Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on out louders.
Speaker 1: Before we start the show today, we just wanted to
Speaker 1: send our love and tell you that we're thinking of
Speaker 1: you if you are affected by the devastating floods in
Speaker 1: northern New South Wales. It's not just the people affected
Speaker 1: by the floods. There are many out louders in those
Speaker 1: areas who are part of the sees or who are
Speaker 1: some of the thousands of volunteers that have been saving
Speaker 1: lives and properties and doing incredible work. So we just
Speaker 1: wanted to say we love you, we're thinking of you,
Speaker 1: and hang in there.
Speaker 3: There is a whole conversation going on about sleepovers. The
Speaker 3: new anxiety around sleepovers is very much about control.
Speaker 4: There's this dual tension right that our kids are spending
Speaker 4: too much time on screens and not enough time with
Speaker 4: their friends, but also this very real fear about the
Speaker 4: risks that the world offers up.
Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to Mama Mia out Loud and to
Speaker 3: our Friday show where we talk about nothing to do
Speaker 3: with the news cycle at all.
Speaker 5: Today. It's Friday, the twenty third of May, and my
Speaker 5: name is Hollywayne.
Speaker 4: Right, I'm Jesse Stevens and I'm.
Speaker 2: And Burnham filling in for mea today we are back
Speaker 2: to regular programming.
Speaker 4: How we all feeling We have just finished up the
Speaker 4: tour last night in Melbourne? What an absolute joy? Does
Speaker 4: everyone else feel like they're going to fall in a hate?
Speaker 3: Yes, a very happy, saated heap Melbourne. You were wild.
Speaker 3: Thank you for finishing us off so well. We are
Speaker 3: still recording from all different corners. If we sound a
Speaker 3: bit weird, but my god, this tour has been a blast, right,
Speaker 3: It's been so much fun.
Speaker 4: I'm horrified by how often on this tour we've said
Speaker 4: this must be how Taylor Swift feels so much like Oh,
Speaker 4: it's just like after the Ears tour, like you just
Speaker 4: take the energy of an audience. Look, it's not quite it,
Speaker 4: but we are a lot of solidarity with Taylor today.
Speaker 3: Anyone who saw the show, and I know many out
Speaker 3: louders listening were not able to come, so we won't
Speaker 3: go on and on, but anyone who saw the show
Speaker 3: knows that the comparisons to Taylor Swift fastly and appropriate.
Speaker 3: It's very generous to us to costume changes anyway. On
Speaker 3: today's show, the sleepover is officially dead. What is lost
Speaker 3: by everyone staying home in their own beds? Thank you
Speaker 3: very much. Also, our recommendations include a tinly Flashblack, an
Speaker 3: unput doubtable mystery, and Bleeding for a Cause. And our
Speaker 3: best and Worst of the week includes you lot out, Louders,
Speaker 3: routine fails, and some very talented people.
Speaker 5: But first, Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 4: In case you missed it, here's what your messy, disgusting
Speaker 4: desk says about you, or rather me, whose desk is
Speaker 4: a health hazard? In an article published in the Age
Speaker 4: by Kathy Bussowitz, if you's a psychiatrist and a medical
Speaker 4: director named Marietta Vanderberg, who says clutter is actually just
Speaker 4: a postponed decision or action. It's things we pick up
Speaker 4: and put down, so we're not making a decision about
Speaker 4: that piece of paper on your desk or that book.
Speaker 4: Now this blew my mind because that identifies precisely what
Speaker 4: my problem is. I'm struggling to make decisions.
Speaker 5: She said that.
Speaker 4: Deliveries actually make this hard up because a lot of
Speaker 4: people have opened or not even yet opened packages on
Speaker 4: their desk, even she was saying, you can't find your pens,
Speaker 4: so you just buy more pens. And then there are
Speaker 4: things like a bill or a fine, which represents a
Speaker 4: task that you can't get around to yet. Researchers have
Speaker 4: found messy desks contribute to our stress hormones and even
Speaker 4: cause us to get less sleep. What's weird is that
Speaker 4: I feel like I'm tidy in most other instances, but
Speaker 4: I have never been able to keep a clean desk. Holly,
Speaker 4: is it a Sagittarius thing? Because I know you're exactly
Speaker 4: the same.
Speaker 5: I am exactly the same.
Speaker 3: I think there's different kinds of clutter, because that's really true,
Speaker 3: that clutter is an unmade decision. There are things on
Speaker 3: my desk that are like books that I've been meaning
Speaker 3: to read, things that I know I've got to get
Speaker 3: back to. It's the rules of anti clutter. Do they
Speaker 3: mean that if I can't do it now, I should
Speaker 3: throw it away? Should there be nothing that is?
Speaker 5: I'm getting to that.
Speaker 4: What you're meant to do is factor in like five
Speaker 4: minutes a day for desk admin. That's what the clever
Speaker 4: people do. Now, m Are you a messy desk or
Speaker 4: a tidy desk?
Speaker 2: I am, and I feel like my mom and mia
Speaker 2: colleagues would disagree. But I feel like I'm personally a
Speaker 2: tidy desk person but messy and every other factor of
Speaker 2: my life, because I feel like desk for me is
Speaker 2: like a public front. So I want people to assume
Speaker 2: something about me, and I think they'll assume that on
Speaker 2: how I keep my desk tidy. With that being said, though,
Speaker 2: I like to have a tiny bit of clutter because
Speaker 2: I feel like it gives the illusion that I'm a
Speaker 2: really busy person.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I agree.
Speaker 2: Things on my desk and I have, like my laptop
Speaker 2: and my notebook. It seems like I'm organized and I'm
Speaker 2: taking notes constantly, my little parcels. And then people walk
Speaker 2: past my desk and go, oh, she's so busy, look
Speaker 2: at her.
Speaker 3: Go there's some mess that's deliberate because I don't have
Speaker 3: a desk at work. I don't know how that happened,
Speaker 3: but I was relegated to a point where I don't
Speaker 3: have a desk. We're about to move to a new office.
Speaker 3: I don't know if i'll have a desk there, you know.
Speaker 3: But at home, my desk is almost deliberately cluttered because
Speaker 3: it's a beautiful old desk, and I like it to
Speaker 3: feel lived in. So I have pictures on there that
Speaker 3: mean a lot to me. I have things I like
Speaker 3: to pick up and rub or hold when I'm riding.
Speaker 3: I have like things I like to squirt on my face.
Speaker 3: I had like it's a deliberate clutter. It's not meant
Speaker 3: to be a sterile environment. It's meant to.
Speaker 5: Be a so it's like organized mess. Yeah, but then
Speaker 5: of course there's also just the mess mess I reckon.
Speaker 4: It's also a status symbol because I remember watching a
Speaker 4: documentary years ago with Caro Meldrum Hannah, who's like an
Speaker 4: ABAC journal who I'm just in awe of, and I
Speaker 4: remember there being a shot of her desk and it
Speaker 4: was revolting. Yeah, I remember that rappers, coffee cups, there
Speaker 4: were things living in it, there was a zoo like,
Speaker 4: it was revolting, and I just thought, that is an
Speaker 4: important woman. Well, it is has a lot going on.
Speaker 3: But this leads me to another very strong opinion about clutter.
Speaker 3: So I saw on socials recently that Christianna, Mama Ja
Speaker 3: to the Kardashians famously busy woman.
Speaker 5: Right, she made a point about messy cars. Listen to this.
Speaker 5: This is what she said.
Speaker 6: They said, what advice do you have for these young girls?
Speaker 6: And I said, keep your car clean? And they were
Speaker 6: like what, And I said, have you ever noticed that
Speaker 6: people with a really messy car like French fries, paper
Speaker 6: cups and drinks thrown around and closed from last week?
Speaker 6: I could not think in a car like that.
Speaker 5: I wish that it.
Speaker 6: Was legal if I was interviewing somebody, to have somebody sneak.
Speaker 7: Down and look at the inside. Go look at the
Speaker 7: inside of the car, and how does that look? Because
Speaker 7: it just kind of represents organizational skills and discipline and
Speaker 7: just the way that you feel about yourself. How do
Speaker 7: you want to present yourself when you go out into
Speaker 7: the world.
Speaker 3: What do we think about that? What do we think
Speaker 3: about the state of your car? Because by that measure,
Speaker 3: that messy desk with the cups and everything says that
Speaker 3: that person is chaotic. What do we think about the
Speaker 3: messy car represents the state of your head.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's about representing the state of
Speaker 2: my head, but I can't stand messy cars. Like my
Speaker 2: car is probably the most pristine. I barely drive it,
Speaker 2: but it's the most pristine car.
Speaker 5: Ever.
Speaker 2: I don't mind people having messy cars if they're the
Speaker 2: only ones in it, But don't make me sit in
Speaker 2: your mess, Like, don't make me get into the passenger seat.
Speaker 2: And you have like McDonald's like on the steed and
Speaker 2: you have I can't even put my water bottle down
Speaker 2: because I just drink bottles. Ever, Like, I actually get
Speaker 2: quite flustered when I'm in a message.
Speaker 5: No em, have I ever given you a lift anywhere?
Speaker 3: Because the first thing I do when anyone gets into
Speaker 3: my car is apologized for the mess.
Speaker 2: Yessee they apologizing, And then like you have to run
Speaker 2: to the passenger seat before me and about all of
Speaker 2: this stuff and dump.
Speaker 5: It into the boot.
Speaker 2: It's chaos.
Speaker 4: And then you go, oh, are you sure you can fit?
Speaker 4: And the person's feet are like on three meters worth
Speaker 4: of bags and they're like yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm fine,
Speaker 4: And I'm thinking, well, you wanted a fucking lift. This
Speaker 4: is a reality. Look, I don't appreciate Chris Jenner's opinion
Speaker 4: at all. My functionality in life relies on my car
Speaker 4: looking like that. If you want my car not to
Speaker 4: look like that, I'm gonna be late. I'm already a
Speaker 4: little bit late, orbe even later. I will barely make
Speaker 4: it to work. Like, I think it's easy for Chris
Speaker 4: Jenner to say that when maybe she has a driver.
Speaker 5: Oh for sure.
Speaker 4: The rest of us are carting around kids, and my
Speaker 4: car is my like transitional space between home and going
Speaker 4: out and child and blah.
Speaker 2: It's like it's the baby seat as well, it's the
Speaker 2: baby because Jesse, if you were to offer me a lift,
Speaker 2: it would be me and Luna in the back with
Speaker 2: your baby seat like digging into my ribcake. Well, you
Speaker 2: and Luca in the front like rows a.
Speaker 4: Room exactly, and I'd be like, sorry about the yoga
Speaker 4: you're sitting on.
Speaker 3: Let's be honest. As someone who drives a lot, I
Speaker 3: eat most of my meals in the car, So.
Speaker 5: My car is disgusting.
Speaker 3: But I find this interesting about the idea of what
Speaker 3: private space of someone's you'd like to see to make
Speaker 3: you make an assumption about them. I find that really
Speaker 3: interesting because of course Chris Jenna doesn't clean her own
Speaker 3: car and probably never has. But she probably also thinks
Speaker 3: are the people who's coming to interview with her for
Speaker 3: a job, like, are they prioritizing a clean car. Are
Speaker 3: they getting it serviced that they're getting it clean?
Speaker 5: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like to her, that probably means something. And I wonder
Speaker 3: if there's anything else in life that's like that. Like
Speaker 3: you can tell a lot about someone from their coffee order,
Speaker 3: whether they lunch at their desk.
Speaker 4: Or if they make their bed before they go to work.
Speaker 4: I think that indicates something. But I reckon that cars
Speaker 4: are a deeply personal private space. Find Chris Jenna. I
Speaker 4: won't be offering you a lift.
Speaker 3: Let's just say that, did you stay over at other
Speaker 3: people's houses when you were a kid?
Speaker 5: And Jesse m absolutely.
Speaker 2: Occasionally, mainly my cousins, but sometimes my friends.
Speaker 3: Right, because there is a whole conversation going on about
Speaker 3: sleepovers again. Now, I've been a parent for fifteen years,
Speaker 3: and if I've learned anything in that time is that
Speaker 3: there's a whole lot of things you're doing every day
Speaker 3: that are going to piss off a lot of other people,
Speaker 3: and raising the word sleepovers is one of them. This
Speaker 3: new conversation that's come back around about whether kids should
Speaker 3: be allowed to spend the night at other people's houses,
Speaker 3: and if so, who's and when has been everywhere lately,
Speaker 3: mostly thanks to a now deleted but completely viral tweet
Speaker 3: that caused a storm of agreement, which simply said, my
Speaker 3: daughter is not allowed to attend sleepovers. I hope somedays
Speaker 3: she forgives me and knows is for the best. It's
Speaker 3: a topic that gets everyone talking because even if you're
Speaker 3: not a parent, you were a kid once and your
Speaker 3: experiences very much affect your opinion. Now, before we get
Speaker 3: into this conversation, we have to acknowledge, of course, and
Speaker 3: say that there are many people who have very strong,
Speaker 3: very good reasons for feeling unsafe about sleepovers, people who
Speaker 3: suffered abuse in that situation or are close to those
Speaker 3: who did. Lots of people who work in child protection
Speaker 3: have very strong feelings about this, and child's safety comes first,
Speaker 3: always without question. But there's another level to this discussion,
Speaker 3: and that's where we're mostly going to be hanging out
Speaker 3: when we talk about it today. The new anxiety around
Speaker 3: sleepovers is also very much about control. It's about bedtimes,
Speaker 3: food choices, screens, technology in general. Jesse, You've been having
Speaker 3: some big discussions about this. Tell me what you're hearing
Speaker 3: out there.
Speaker 4: So there was an article in the Sunday Morning Herald
Speaker 4: about a week ago that covered this issue, and one
Speaker 4: of the people interviewed, I believe, was a counselor, And
Speaker 4: as you say, Holly, counselors hear some stories and I
Speaker 4: can imagine that that would influence your worldview. But I
Speaker 4: spoke on ABAC radio about it last week and had
Speaker 4: the most interesting callers. One who was a police officer
Speaker 4: and so was his wife, and they made a conscious
Speaker 4: decision that they would not let the things they saw
Speaker 4: in the day job influence how they parented because they
Speaker 4: didn't want to project that anxiety onto their kids. And
Speaker 4: one of the most interesting ones was a teacher who
Speaker 4: said she'd been teaching for like more than thirty years,
Speaker 4: and at the beginning of her career, you would have
Speaker 4: school camps where maybe you went away for two nights
Speaker 4: in year maybe seven and eight, and now they can
Speaker 4: barely do one night. A significant portion of kids will
Speaker 4: not go away for one night. They cannot be apart
Speaker 4: from their parents because at that age it is the
Speaker 4: first time they will ever spend a night away from
Speaker 4: their parents, and that's causing an issue for schools. And
Speaker 4: she was saying that from a child development point of view,
Speaker 4: independence is critical at that age because everything from packing
Speaker 4: to doing the routine of brushing the teeth or having
Speaker 4: a shower or not doing those things because you're away
Speaker 4: from your parents. They're just really important milestones that we
Speaker 4: appeared to be missing. And there's a theory that Jonathan
Speaker 4: Height and a bunch of other experts put forward, which is,
Speaker 4: this is why we're having this anxious generation because they're
Speaker 4: not having enough practice at resilience and independence.
Speaker 5: And what do you think?
Speaker 2: It's really hard because I feel so bad for kids
Speaker 2: who don't get to experience a sleepover and really want to.
Speaker 2: I remember, like I don't remember much from my primary
Speaker 2: school days, but I do remember all the sleepovers I
Speaker 2: went on. I started going to sleepovers really early on
Speaker 2: when I was younger, with just my cousins like family,
Speaker 2: and I remember when I started school, my parents were
Speaker 2: a bit hesitant on taking me to sleepovers, and I
Speaker 2: think they were mainly concerned about the cultural differences. And
Speaker 2: I remember so specifically, like my Asian friends and my
Speaker 2: ethnic friends like myself were never allowed to go on sleepovers,
Speaker 2: and I think that was mainly because of the culture.
Speaker 2: I'm biguity of not knowing what happens at different people's houses.
Speaker 2: I felt so sad for those friends of mine, because
Speaker 2: I'm sure this has changed now with kids having phones
Speaker 2: and computers. But I remember after a sleepover, for weeks
Speaker 2: on end, that's all we would talk about at school
Speaker 2: was the sleepover. And there was one time in particular,
Speaker 2: I think I was around nine years old where I
Speaker 2: had a fever and I couldn't go to my friend's
Speaker 2: birthday party and it was a sleepover and I sobbed
Speaker 2: for like a week straight because that's all my friends
Speaker 2: could talk about, and it would be the most mundane
Speaker 2: little things, like remember when Jessica had that pineapple lolly,
Speaker 2: even though she said she hated pineapple lollies, Like it
Speaker 2: was those little things, but it just brought such a big,
Speaker 2: different experience into our lives. And I just remember having
Speaker 2: so much fun, and I felt so sad for my
Speaker 2: friends who weren't allowed to go.
Speaker 3: It's interesting because your point about what you just said.
Speaker 3: I think that one of the really good things about
Speaker 3: sleepovers is observing other families up close. Right if you
Speaker 3: only ever see your family and your you know, cultural setting,
Speaker 3: whatever that is, because lots of families have their own cultures,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean as well, Like if you
Speaker 3: only ever see your family up close, you assume that
Speaker 3: all of the world is like that. And I think
Speaker 3: one of the things that's really good is watching other
Speaker 3: families operate. And I'm always really conscious of that When
Speaker 3: my kids have sleepovers at our house and there are
Speaker 3: other kids there, I sort of think, oh wow, like
Speaker 3: they're kind of studying us like a documentary. I think
Speaker 3: it's really interesting, right, because I understand the anxiety obviously
Speaker 3: the serious worst case scenarios that we've discussed, but it
Speaker 3: is worth pointing out in that that sleepovers also involve
Speaker 3: grandma's house, anti's house, cousin's house. Those are also sleepovers,
Speaker 3: and the statistics will show that very often abuse occurs
Speaker 3: within families that are closed or like adults who are
Speaker 3: very close and known to you. So total control would
Speaker 3: mean no sleepovers ever, including at family's houses. Right, But
Speaker 3: then beyond that, you've got to start making some kind
Speaker 3: of risk assessment if you're going to be prepared to
Speaker 3: do it. And one of the things I feel a
Speaker 3: bit bad about this kind of some of the dialogue
Speaker 3: I've seen around this new anxiety around sleepovers and Again,
Speaker 3: it's around more what time will they go to bed,
Speaker 3: and maybe they're gonna eat something that's bad for them,
Speaker 3: Maybe they're not gonna go to bed till late, maybe
Speaker 3: they'll watch a scary movie. Is I think that this
Speaker 3: sort of value judgment around it and this idea, I've
Speaker 3: seen quite a lot of people online saying I've decided
Speaker 3: I'm not they've only got babies in there, Like I've
Speaker 3: decided I'm not gonna let my kids have sleepovers.
Speaker 5: Is if you don't have.
Speaker 3: Grandma down the road and an anti nextoor and all
Speaker 3: that things, that means you are now granting yourselves no
Speaker 3: nights off from parenting ever. Right, We're just constantly piling
Speaker 3: more and more pressure on tiny family units and then
Speaker 3: wonder why they crack.
Speaker 5: It's like what about the village?
Speaker 3: You know, Like the idea that if you don't have
Speaker 3: grandma who lives down the road and you're going to
Speaker 3: say no sleepovers, that means you and your partner, if
Speaker 3: you've got one and never gonna go and have a
Speaker 3: night away, You're never going to go out late.
Speaker 5: Like there's a whole lot of.
Speaker 3: Things you're never gonna do because you're afraid and I
Speaker 3: worry about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And there's this dual tension, right that our kids
Speaker 4: are spending too much time on screens and not enough
Speaker 4: time with their friends, but also this very real fear
Speaker 4: about the risks that the world offers up. So if
Speaker 4: you can't leave a kid with a family member or
Speaker 4: a friend, then they're always at home. But something's got
Speaker 4: to give, so likely there are going to be moments
Speaker 4: when they're on their screen, which we know isn't perfect either.
Speaker 4: This is massive on TikTok, on kind of parent TikTok, right,
Speaker 4: And I was listening to some of the sentences that
Speaker 4: some are experts like pediatricians, and others are parents giving
Speaker 4: some advice, and they said one was sexual assault is
Speaker 4: committed by people we know love and trust, and another
Speaker 4: was a father. And there's got so many likes and
Speaker 4: so much engagement when it comes to my kids, I
Speaker 4: don't trust anybody, and I don't think we can live
Speaker 4: in that world. On the one hand, I totally understand
Speaker 4: it if you have had that experience, I can't imagine
Speaker 4: what it would be like raising a child when you
Speaker 4: have had a traumatic experience as a child yourself. But
Speaker 4: if you haven't, I think you can mitigate risk, you
Speaker 4: can make sensible decisions from knowing who the family is,
Speaker 4: knowing who's going to be around. Interestingly, the discussion in
Speaker 4: the US, and this is relevant, is there guns in
Speaker 4: the house. Luckily that isn't one that's relevant to Australia.
Speaker 4: But I do reckon that at some point you've got
Speaker 4: to trust the adults around you and if you are
Speaker 4: sitting there with this like enormous anxiety, then your child
Speaker 4: is going to absorb that and that can't be good either, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I also have a question on if something
Speaker 2: does go a bit wrong, like how do you manage
Speaker 2: the parenting after that? Like another example I had at
Speaker 2: a sleepover was I was at a friend's birthday. I
Speaker 2: think we were probably eleven years old, and two of
Speaker 2: the girls got into the mum's alcohol cabinet.
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is the most common scenario in the world, right, Okay,
Speaker 5: this is good to know because it's traumatized for life.
Speaker 5: It's the most common scenario.
Speaker 2: And they were just like swigging, I want to say,
Speaker 2: like the worst alcohol. And then they started violently throwing up.
Speaker 2: And then the mom came in and she was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, all the parents were called, we all
Speaker 2: got picked up, but then one of them wasn't allowed
Speaker 2: to go to any sleepovers for the rest of the year,
Speaker 2: and the other one just showed up at the next party.
Speaker 2: And as kids who weren't involved, we were very very confused,
Speaker 2: and even my parents were a bit like, well, you
Speaker 2: were there, but did you do it? Like it was
Speaker 2: really hard to navigate. They were just very.
Speaker 3: Confused, just like every bit of parenting. One of the
Speaker 3: things that we're all really afraid of now is everybody
Speaker 3: else's judgments, right, so that happens still happens all the time.
Speaker 5: And that scenario that you talked about.
Speaker 3: The first time I ever got drunk was a sleepover,
Speaker 3: or the first time I ever saw an adult magazine
Speaker 3: was probably a sleepover. Like, it is true that these
Speaker 3: things happen.
Speaker 2: Your sleepovers are much cooler.
Speaker 3: Them, but nothing disastrous occurred, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It was just that kind of stuff. And the thing
Speaker 3: is is, obviously I have a teenager and we've been
Speaker 3: through a lot of sleepover things.
Speaker 5: It's different for me.
Speaker 3: I'll talk more about my daughter's sleepovers because my son
Speaker 3: that's a little bit different, and kids who have different needs.
Speaker 3: You know, you've got to have different rules. But my
Speaker 3: daughter's very social. She loves her friends, and sleepovers is
Speaker 3: the thing they all want to do. And I'm not
Speaker 3: in the business of telling other people what to do,
Speaker 3: but I allow them, and I allow them at my house.
Speaker 3: But I'd have my own rules, which I think every
Speaker 3: family does. It's like my house, my rules. So in
Speaker 3: our house, they're not allowed their phones after a certain time,
Speaker 3: so I'll go in and take everybody's phones and stuff.
Speaker 3: Sometimes kids get upset about that.
Speaker 5: It's tough.
Speaker 3: It's my house, my rules, right, same way that if
Speaker 3: we're having pizza for dinner, we're having pizza for dinner. Obviously,
Speaker 3: dietaries not exclusives.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I could never do the like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, aren't you just like?
Speaker 5: What if they hate me? I don't care. And I'm
Speaker 5: not very particularly strict.
Speaker 3: But the thing that I always do because when I
Speaker 3: was my daughter's age, I was a naughty teenager and
Speaker 3: I lied about where I was staying the night nearly always.
Speaker 3: So my number one thing is I always check. I
Speaker 3: have to have the parent's phone number, and I obviously
Speaker 3: when she was little, I had to know them and
Speaker 3: all that but she's older. Now I have to have
Speaker 3: the parent's phone number. I always check with the parent.
Speaker 3: So and so it says they're staying at your house,
Speaker 3: is that true?
Speaker 5: Will you be home?
Speaker 3: Like? That's base level stuff, And most I know this
Speaker 3: is big on TikTok, and I feel like it's a
Speaker 3: particular thing when your kids are little and you're looking
Speaker 3: ahead and you're going I will never But most parents
Speaker 3: I know sit somewhere in a sensible center on this,
Speaker 3: which is they have their own boundaries. Like, so, Matilda
Speaker 3: had someone stay over last week, I wasn't there, so
Speaker 3: obviously I made sure that her parents knew that I
Speaker 3: wasn't there and that Brent was there, and were they
Speaker 3: okay with that? Like just communication, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: And I think that most people are like that.
Speaker 4: They're sensible, and things are going to happen at sleepovers
Speaker 4: that aren ideal. Like on the one hand, you've got
Speaker 4: I'm sure we all remember, you know, the two way
Speaker 4: conversations and the realizing how shit you feel the next
Speaker 4: day when you didn't get any sleep and all of that.
Speaker 4: But on the other hand, I remember instances of bullying,
Speaker 4: of complex friendship dynamics. It means being said, all of
Speaker 4: those things happen too, but they are something that you
Speaker 4: deal with as a teenager. You learn things from it,
Speaker 4: and again it reinforces your independence. But for cultural reasons,
Speaker 4: for family reasons, for religious reasons, for a million reasons,
Speaker 4: some families won't do sleepovers. And it's not the only
Speaker 4: way that you can encourage independence, right, Like.
Speaker 3: No, And actually what happens now is something called a
Speaker 3: sleep under. So I've got friends who do their kids
Speaker 3: have sleepovers and that's fine. And Matilda's got friends whose
Speaker 3: parents will other kids sleepover. So sleep under is where
Speaker 3: they come and they do all the fun things that
Speaker 3: the other kids are doing, so you know, like if
Speaker 3: you're getting some pizza or doing whatever, hanging out, but
Speaker 3: then they come and pick them up at about ten
Speaker 3: o'clock or like nine o'clock or whatever is the thing.
Speaker 3: And that's called a sleep under, and that is really
Speaker 3: popular because if for whatever reason you're not comfortable with sleepovers,
Speaker 3: your kids still get some of the fun, but just
Speaker 3: not the midnight stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: What I struggle with, I guess, is the TikTok parenting
Speaker 4: experts wagging their finger at other parents, sort of suggesting
Speaker 4: that you're being irresponsible or naive or idealistic if you
Speaker 4: allow your child to do anything that is slightly risky.
Speaker 4: Because everyone out there is a monster. I don't want
Speaker 4: to live in a world where we are treating everyone
Speaker 4: as a monster. If this conversation has brought up anything
Speaker 4: for you, then we have some resources in the show notes.
Speaker 2: Out loudest in a moment, we have some recommendations for
Speaker 2: your weekend. Vibes ideas Atosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 6: This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 2: It is Friday, so we want to help set up
Speaker 2: your weekend with our very best recommendations. Holly, you go best.
Speaker 3: You know how my recommendations. I have a reputation with
Speaker 3: my co hosts for being a bit basic. Yes, I
Speaker 3: am bringing you the most basic of all recommendations because
Speaker 3: I think we all know or many of us know that.
Speaker 3: And just like that's coming back, which is the polarizing
Speaker 3: new version of Sex and the City, which is about
Speaker 3: to come back with season three. When does it drop
Speaker 3: The end of May May thirty. So I'm like an
Speaker 3: athlete preparing for this event.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's done training.
Speaker 3: And what I've been doing, and because we've been traveling
Speaker 3: a lot, which we'll talk about in a minute. But
Speaker 3: one of the things that I do for like a
Speaker 3: comfort wind down, is I have been watching the entire
Speaker 3: season six, which is the last season of Sex and
Speaker 3: the City, the TV show, Right.
Speaker 4: I loved that last season.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, it is so good.
Speaker 3: And I know there are problematic things about it, don't
Speaker 3: at me. There definitely are. There's a bit where Charlotte
Speaker 3: puts a mascot and pretends to be blind. There's quite
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff that just is not okay. But
Speaker 3: as a season of television, in these thirty minute storytelling chunks,
Speaker 3: so much happens in that season. You know what I'm
Speaker 3: talking about if you're familiar. Carrie meets Berger, gets dumped
Speaker 3: by Berger, Miranda goes out with the guy who lives downstairs,
Speaker 3: gets back together with Steve, they get married, Samantha gets cancered,
Speaker 3: Carrie meets the hot Russian, they have their whole thing,
Speaker 3: moves to Paris, Charlotte's getting pregnant child black Like, so
Speaker 3: much happens in this one season, and it is funny
Speaker 3: and light and so well told, and I am loving it.
Speaker 3: And I'm just recommending that if you just want to
Speaker 3: turn your brain off and just enjoy some excellent classic
Speaker 3: like TV, especially if you are limbering up for and
Speaker 3: just like that season six it is untouchable. It is Oh,
Speaker 3: it's on Max.
Speaker 4: By the way, everybody, how about you, M what's your recommendation?
Speaker 2: So I recently got a notification on my book app
Speaker 2: because I had it said that I wanted to read
Speaker 2: fifty books this year, and then I got a note
Speaker 2: for saying, if you want to stick to your goal,
Speaker 2: you need to read six books a month.
Speaker 3: So instead of reading goal on your reading app like Kindling, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I have fable.
Speaker 2: It's an app that you can like track all your
Speaker 2: books and stuff on it. A lot of people use
Speaker 2: it similar to Goodreads.
Speaker 5: Have you already read my book on there?
Speaker 2: I definitely have read your book, Kelly, and I've given
Speaker 2: you five stars.
Speaker 5: Thank you very much, my friend. Please proceed, Please proceed.
Speaker 2: So I was recommended this book by a friend. It's
Speaker 2: called The God of the Woods by Liz Moore, and
Speaker 2: it's kind of a thriller mystery drama. And the reason
Speaker 2: I picked it up was because I've kind of been
Speaker 2: in a hole of romanticy novels like I've been reading
Speaker 2: my fairy smut. I've been reading about sexy dragons and
Speaker 2: I was like, I need to get out of this.
Speaker 2: I can't just this can't.
Speaker 5: Be my thing.
Speaker 2: But you love that stuff, right, I love that stuff,
Speaker 2: And I think it's when I first got into Romanticy.
Speaker 2: It was just something that's so different from everyday life.
Speaker 2: I feel like when I read books now, I'm always
Speaker 2: like in the back of my head looking for a pitch,
Speaker 2: like an article or something to talk about in a podcast,
Speaker 2: and with Romanticy, you actually can't do that because it's
Speaker 2: about dragons essentially.
Speaker 5: I love that. So many people do. People just talk
Speaker 5: to me all the time about Romanticy. It's so good.
Speaker 5: I love it.
Speaker 2: So this book is actually a thriller mystery drama. It's
Speaker 2: still a novel, but it's about this girl named Barbara,
Speaker 2: and it's set in nineteen seventy five at an exclusive,
Speaker 2: high end summer camp for kids. And I picked it
Speaker 2: up holes straight after your book, so I now know
Speaker 2: a lot about camping two books. So it's set at
Speaker 2: this camp and Barbara goes missing, and Barbara in particular
Speaker 2: is the daughter of the extremely wealthy family that owns
Speaker 2: the camp and also employs pretty much the entire region
Speaker 2: they live in, so they're very very high up family,
Speaker 2: and her disappearance came fourteen years after her brother disappeared
Speaker 2: in a very similar way. Oh this is mye gripping.
Speaker 2: It's so well written. Oh it's so well doneminds me
Speaker 2: a lot of your book Hold with the descriptions of
Speaker 2: the camp and the maps and everything, so you can
Speaker 2: kind of like see it in your head. And it's
Speaker 2: just one of those thrillers that I physically couldn't put down.
Speaker 2: It's very similar to like Gillian Flynn's writing. I absolutely
Speaker 2: loved it.
Speaker 5: Remind me what it's called.
Speaker 2: It is called The God of the Woods by Liz Moore.
Speaker 4: All right, that's my next raad. My recommendation is purely
Speaker 4: here to make both of you feel like bad people.
Speaker 4: And that is my reco is giving blood. I gave
Speaker 4: blood last Friday. I've already told you both. I've already
Speaker 4: told everyone I've come across. I saw, you know, Amelia's
Speaker 4: husband is a doctor, and i'd run into him recently
Speaker 4: and I told him within thirty seconds that I'd give
Speaker 4: him blood because doctors really like it when you give blood.
Speaker 4: So anyway, I should tell all of you too. I
Speaker 4: also tell everyone that I have magic blood, which is
Speaker 4: own egg, which means that I am obligated to give
Speaker 4: blood because I am a It's like you're a vampire's dream. Yes,
Speaker 4: when Spider Man says, with great something comes great responsibility,
Speaker 4: that's me with blood. So did you know that giving
Speaker 4: blood like needle goes in seven minutes? Seven minutes? I
Speaker 4: had to have a bit of a consult before because
Speaker 4: I traveled recently, and so that you should look that
Speaker 4: up before you do it. It's like I'd been to Fiji
Speaker 4: and it's got to be four weeks before you can
Speaker 4: do it. So there's just some funny things and a
Speaker 4: few people get caught out once they're there. So I
Speaker 4: would definitely check. But I think a lot of people
Speaker 4: think with blood it's a car accident or these traumatic accidents,
Speaker 4: and that's true. Your blood is especially own negative, is
Speaker 4: often used for that. But if you know anyone who
Speaker 4: is going through cancer treatment, the chances are they will
Speaker 4: need it at some point because it helps them, you know,
Speaker 4: do the chemo or the radiation or whatever. I have
Speaker 4: a friend's mum who's needed a few transfusions lately, and
Speaker 4: so it is such a privilege to be in the
Speaker 4: position where you're well enough to do it. And I
Speaker 4: have felt like such a good person for the last week.
Speaker 4: And every time you tell someone they really do have
Speaker 4: to give you a pat on the back. It's just like,
Speaker 4: sometimes I don't feel like a good person, and that
Speaker 4: has just been honestly, it has given me a lot
Speaker 4: of self esteem.
Speaker 3: It's on my list of things I've got to get
Speaker 3: around to doing when things calm down and inverted commas. And
Speaker 3: also plasma if you can do that too, that is incredibly.
Speaker 4: Yes, plasma, and you can give plasma more often as well.
Speaker 2: Jesse, I don't know if it was you, but someone said,
Speaker 2: if you're single, going to a blood bank.
Speaker 4: It was me.
Speaker 5: It was me.
Speaker 4: I wrote a story, so I gave blood years ago,
Speaker 4: and I hadn't done it in a few years because
Speaker 4: I'd had some issues with iron deficiency. But we went
Speaker 4: as a workplace because someone that we love who we
Speaker 4: worked with was diagnosed with cancer and we all went
Speaker 4: and gave blood. And I was like, I know, this
Speaker 4: isn't the point, but everyone here is really hot. And
Speaker 4: not only were they hot, but they had great values
Speaker 4: because they were like, I care about saving lives, and
Speaker 4: I looked around and went, this is a single girl's dream.
Speaker 4: And I remember speaking to Life Blood about it. It's often,
Speaker 4: you know, it's like a professional who's going on their
Speaker 4: lunch break and they're just like, honestly, em, I reckon go,
Speaker 4: don't give too much. You've still got to be standing.
Speaker 4: You need enough blood for yourself. But I reckon go
Speaker 4: and just look around and I think you might meet
Speaker 4: the love of your life at the blood bank.
Speaker 5: Whoa a win is a win?
Speaker 4: After the break, the highs and lows of being on
Speaker 4: the road, a very inappropriate question, and a special birthday,
Speaker 4: it is time for Best and Worst.
Speaker 5: One unlimited out loud access.
Speaker 3: We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma
Speaker 3: Mia subscribers.
Speaker 5: Follow the link of the show notes.
Speaker 3: To get us in your ears five days a week.
Speaker 3: And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 4: Holly, do you want to go first?
Speaker 2: I will.
Speaker 5: I'm breaking the rules a little bit to them.
Speaker 3: I'm going to mush them up together because my best
Speaker 3: and worst are the same thing. We have talked about
Speaker 3: the tour a little bit. We're going to talk about
Speaker 3: it a little bit more in a minute too, some
Speaker 3: very special people on the road. But my best and
Speaker 3: worst this last week and the last few weeks has
Speaker 3: been tour travel because I absolutely love traveling. I love flying,
Speaker 3: I love hotels, I love doing the shows. I love
Speaker 3: pushing myself. I love hanging out with you guys and
Speaker 3: all the crew. I love it, like I genuinely love it.
Speaker 3: But I have been away from my family so much.
Speaker 3: And this is exacerbated by the fact that obviously, as
Speaker 3: a lot of out loud as know, a couple of
Speaker 3: well four years ago now, I moved down the coast
Speaker 3: in New South Wales, so I don't live near Sydney.
Speaker 5: I don't live near the airport.
Speaker 3: So that complicates things in that it means that often
Speaker 3: when we come back to town, if we're going again soon,
Speaker 3: like I end up staying in hotels more and away.
Speaker 3: So there's been long stretches where I haven't seen the family.
Speaker 3: And we always knew, Like Brent and I at the
Speaker 3: beginning of this year, when we were looking at the year,
Speaker 3: we were like, well, May is just crazy because I've
Speaker 3: got a book coming out, which is an amazing, you
Speaker 3: know thing.
Speaker 5: You work so hard on.
Speaker 3: And finally comes and then we've got the tour, which
Speaker 3: is the highlight of my mom and me are out
Speaker 3: loud year.
Speaker 5: I love it. But they were all colliding. So we're
Speaker 5: just new.
Speaker 3: So we talked to the kids and we're just like,
Speaker 3: talk to the dog, talk to everybody, talk to the plants.
Speaker 5: Just like, I'm going to be traveling a lot. I'm
Speaker 5: not going to be around.
Speaker 3: It's not going to be great, but we'll get through it,
Speaker 3: and then we're all going to go on holiday together
Speaker 3: in the school holidays. But it's so weird, and I
Speaker 3: know there are so many people who have to travel
Speaker 3: for work or lots of different reasons. Maybe they're fly
Speaker 3: and fly out, maybe they're you know, doing lots of
Speaker 3: different things. That it's like a great privilege really because
Speaker 3: you get to still with your parent and you've got
Speaker 3: a busy family life, because you get to live a
Speaker 3: little bit of just you, just you being selfish, like
Speaker 3: sitting in a hotel room watching sex in the city, right,
Speaker 3: you know, winding down from a show. But then on
Speaker 3: the other hand, I just by the end of last week,
Speaker 3: I was just pining for them, like just absolutely pining
Speaker 3: for them, and you know, that you're not there for
Speaker 3: things you should be there for, and you know you're
Speaker 3: just not there for all the incidental little stuff, and
Speaker 3: you know that the cabbage is are and it's just
Speaker 3: the caterpillars are having their way with your broccoli.
Speaker 4: How do you feel at the end of it, Holly,
Speaker 4: do you really really miss them? Do you just want
Speaker 4: to go in?
Speaker 5: I really really miss them?
Speaker 3: And then the thing that's funny about it, and again
Speaker 3: lots of people who travel for work will know this
Speaker 3: is then you get home and you're home for like
Speaker 3: a day, and it's like you are never gone, and
Speaker 3: the washing is up to the ceiling and they're all
Speaker 3: just like, oh, they're so happy to see you when
Speaker 3: you first get home. But then they're just everyone just
Speaker 3: slots back into normal life and you're like, oh yeah,
Speaker 3: and then you're like, oh, hotel room would be kind
Speaker 3: of nice. No, So it's been like, I know, I
Speaker 3: sound like a very privileged winter because these are the
Speaker 3: best things about my job, right, Like, this is such
Speaker 3: good stuff, you know, talking to people about my book.
Speaker 3: He would never talk to people about the tour, meeting
Speaker 3: out loud as on the tour, traveling with all these
Speaker 3: smart women but fuck, I miss my family a lot
Speaker 3: and it's a weird.
Speaker 5: High low situation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know what you mean. Em what was your worst?
Speaker 2: So my worst. This is gonna sound so lame compared
Speaker 2: to Holly's work, but it's kind of similar with the
Speaker 2: traveling around, Like I don't think I'm cut out for
Speaker 2: the rock star life. Like it's just a lot of hotels,
Speaker 2: a lot of flights, which I absolutely love and it's
Speaker 2: so exciting and it's so new to me. But I
Speaker 2: am the most undisciplined person in history, to the point
Speaker 2: where I genuinely think I need to be studied because
Speaker 2: I don't understand it. If I'm not held accountable for
Speaker 2: doing things, I just won't do them. And I've been
Speaker 2: really taking the mickey out of this whole, like little
Speaker 2: stint of ours being away and everything's just out of
Speaker 2: control of my life, Like I haven't planned when to
Speaker 2: do my washing. My apartment's been in a constant mess.
Speaker 2: I've been in the office when I'm not allowed to
Speaker 2: be in the office because it's still under construction. I've
Speaker 2: just been breaking so many rules. I've been sleeping in,
Speaker 2: I've been eating crazy, i haven't been taking my vitamins,
Speaker 2: and I'm starting to now feel the ramifications for all
Speaker 2: of that, Like I am starting to become a frazzle person.
Speaker 2: I'm not a frazzle person, generally hard relate.
Speaker 4: And I've not eaten. I know, we don't do good food,
Speaker 4: bad food. God, I've eaten like crap and I'm feeling it.
Speaker 4: It's like, because you're so out of whack, you just
Speaker 4: sort of eat what you can get and you get
Speaker 4: to the end of it and go, no, I probably
Speaker 4: need a vegetable.
Speaker 2: Literally, i haven't even vegetable. I've been like surviving on
Speaker 2: meta musial my whole boughs because it's just been insane,
Speaker 2: to the point where my mom came over I think
Speaker 2: it was after the Brisbane show, and she just came
Speaker 2: over and cleaned my apartment and kissed me food and
Speaker 2: was like, you need to figure this out because I
Speaker 2: can't do this.
Speaker 5: For the rest of my life.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, that's true.
Speaker 4: I'm sure that's a Telesis's mum does too, surely.
Speaker 2: But my best was also related to show because I
Speaker 2: celebrated my birthday for the Sydney show and it was
Speaker 2: hands down the best birthday I've ever had. It was
Speaker 2: just so much fun. I get a lot of anxiety
Speaker 2: from my birthday. On my twenty third birthday, I had
Speaker 2: my first anxiety attack and it was at like a
Speaker 2: big party I had for myself, and since I was
Speaker 2: twenty three, I haven't had a party for my birthday
Speaker 2: since then. Like I've had my go to was like
Speaker 2: a dinner with three of my closest friends, a dinner
Speaker 2: with my parents, and a breakfast with my grandparents, and
Speaker 2: I've just done that every year. And then the Sydney Show.
Speaker 5: It was just so much fun.
Speaker 2: And I think it's because I had just sure a
Speaker 2: great habit to build, but I had so much anxiety
Speaker 2: for the Sydney Show that the anxiety for my birthday
Speaker 2: just never came.
Speaker 3: And it was just fun and everyone was stay out
Speaker 3: loudest spontaneously sang you I need to.
Speaker 2: Find out who started that, because it wasn't anyone I know.
Speaker 2: I've asked everyone and they were like, oh, sorry, it
Speaker 2: wasn't ass So it was. It wasn't out louder and
Speaker 2: it was so beautiful and the crew and you guys
Speaker 2: were just so nice and you made me feel so special.
Speaker 2: And it was the first birthday where it was all
Speaker 2: happiness and zero anxiety, and I absolutely loved it.
Speaker 5: It was so much fun.
Speaker 4: I was so special to spend your birthday with you
Speaker 4: and the big twenty nine. No, my worst is it's
Speaker 4: a question I got asked at the park. And I
Speaker 4: want to be clear because I actually don't think there's
Speaker 4: anything inappropriate about this question. And I've had great conversations
Speaker 4: with women about it, right, And that is the second
Speaker 4: baby question. I am constantly having conversations about it. You know,
Speaker 4: people can be really touchy, and I get it about
Speaker 4: when you're having a baby, did it? Like all of
Speaker 4: that stuff can be a button for people. But I've
Speaker 4: had lots of women say to me, are you thinking
Speaker 4: about a second? And We've had great conversations and I'm
Speaker 4: really honest with them and we go back and forth.
Speaker 4: And I'm always asking people about the age gap and
Speaker 4: when did you decide to have a second and blah
Speaker 4: blah blah. But I was at the park and this
Speaker 4: woman came over to me and asked how old Luna
Speaker 4: was and asked if I was thinking about having a second,
Speaker 4: which is fine, but it was the follow up questions
Speaker 4: that I found to be inappropriate, like bordering on almost
Speaker 4: a bit like aggressive, like annoid that I hadn't had
Speaker 4: a second. So she was like, she came over, asked
Speaker 4: you think about having a second, and then like why
Speaker 4: haven't you had one yet? What are you waiting for?
Speaker 4: And when were you thinking? And if she's nearly two,
Speaker 4: then it might be time. And she was like nearly
Speaker 4: aggressive about it, And I thought, do you want me
Speaker 4: to turn to you, stranger who I have never met,
Speaker 4: and talked to you about my ovulation schedule and how
Speaker 4: that is intersecting with my husband's availability, Like do you
Speaker 4: help pride it? These conversations are you don't know if
Speaker 4: I've been struggling for twelve months. You don't know if
Speaker 4: I'm currently pregnant, you don't know if I have had
Speaker 4: pregnancy loss. Like it's just a very sore topic. And
Speaker 4: on my way back from the park, I was like,
Speaker 4: the thing is that everyone who has one baby has
Speaker 4: thought about a second, either they've decided that they don't
Speaker 4: want to, or they do want to or whatever. It's like,
Speaker 4: you're not bringing.
Speaker 5: Them the idea.
Speaker 4: You're not planting an idea that hasn't crossed my mind.
Speaker 4: I'm obviously thinking about that. I am very aware of
Speaker 4: age all that kind of stuff. I just thought, if
Speaker 4: someone is a stranger, like love conversations with strangers, but
Speaker 4: just don't compound the fertility anxiety and don't keep going.
Speaker 3: It's so funny, not funny, hahd. But Jesse, I think
Speaker 3: because you know, there's so much out there now, we
Speaker 3: share so much on STUCI. I don't mean usk, yes,
Speaker 3: but I sort of think everyone's got the memo about
Speaker 3: like not asking people those kind of questions, just like
Speaker 3: you don't ask people if they're pregnant, or you don't
Speaker 3: ask people if they want to have kids, or if
Speaker 3: they're about to get married.
Speaker 5: You know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Like, in my mind, we've all got that memo and
Speaker 3: we don't push it. But clearly that's a false reality.
Speaker 3: Clearly there's plenty of pushing still going on.
Speaker 4: And I have a theory that it is worse when
Speaker 4: you've had one. I reckon that if you don't have kids.
Speaker 4: I've got heaps and mates without kids, and I think
Speaker 4: people go, you know what, none of my business. Maybe
Speaker 4: they don't want them, maybe they do whatever. When you've
Speaker 4: had one, it's like you've opened the door for people
Speaker 4: to go, Are you having more like they think that
Speaker 4: conversation is appropriate when I know a lot of people
Speaker 4: who have struggled with a second or for various reasons,
Speaker 4: don't want one. It's just like, yeah, people think that
Speaker 4: it's an appropriate kind of thing, and if you're a mate,
Speaker 4: so happy to have the conversation, but strangers just different.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's so stressful to me.
Speaker 5: Exactly.
Speaker 4: My best is we've been touring for six or seven years.
Speaker 4: We've been doing it for a while, and I reckon
Speaker 4: we've done more than fifty live shows. Yeah, and this
Speaker 4: has been my absolute favorite for a few reasons. We've
Speaker 4: had a few special guests on the road with us,
Speaker 4: and speaking of sleepovers, it's been like a big sleepover
Speaker 4: with just the best company because you spend so much time.
Speaker 4: You have dinner together, you're backstage together, like I've just
Speaker 4: loved that incidental time and the crew, like you know,
Speaker 4: we get on stage and get an applause and do
Speaker 4: what I maintain is the easy bit, the logistics, the
Speaker 4: work that has gone on behind the scenes. And I
Speaker 4: couldn't possibly name everyone but Paula and Ruth and em
Speaker 4: Lucy Lucy's Oh, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 3: So many co Co and Tessa who are traveling with
Speaker 3: us and doing all the socials that you're seeing. This
Speaker 3: one here Emily Vernon, who's stepping out on stage for
Speaker 3: the first time in front of all those people.
Speaker 4: Exactly, And now we can actually name who the other
Speaker 4: special guest was, because now everyone knows. Of course, Amelia Lester.
Speaker 4: Amelia was on the road with us, and like, spending
Speaker 4: time with you two has just been so much fun.
Speaker 4: So we're just so lucky.
Speaker 2: It's such a good team. Like it's so much fun.
Speaker 4: Such a good team. So I've just enjoyed it so much.
Speaker 4: It's been not only my best for the week, but
Speaker 4: I reckon it'll be the highlight of my ear for sure.
Speaker 3: Massive appreciation to all those amazing women. And you know
Speaker 3: what's funny we talked about this, it's not entirely true
Speaker 3: because there are some dudes behind the scenes who came
Speaker 3: upon the Sydney Show.
Speaker 5: There's Josh.
Speaker 3: We were in Brisbane and all the crew came up
Speaker 3: on the stage to take a bow and I knew
Speaker 3: someone who was there and she said, oh my god,
Speaker 3: seeing all that all female crew, you know, it was
Speaker 3: so empowering.
Speaker 5: It was so powerful and Jesse.
Speaker 3: I told Jesse that after dinner, and we looked at
Speaker 3: each other and went that had never even heard like
Speaker 3: We're just so used to being surrounded by amazing kicks
Speaker 3: women that like, it doesn't seem remarkable, but you know what,
Speaker 3: I bet it is remarkable.
Speaker 5: Honestly, Wow, wow, wow wow, so much fun, so cool.
Speaker 3: That is all we have time for today. We will
Speaker 3: stop talking about the tour now. It probably really annoys
Speaker 3: everybody who didn't get back to original programming. But a
Speaker 3: massive thank you to all of you out louders who
Speaker 3: listen to us today, any day every week. We'll be
Speaker 3: back in your ears on Monday. Jesse and them read
Speaker 3: us out.
Speaker 4: Big thank you to our team group executive producer Ruth
Speaker 4: Devine executive producer Emmeline Gazillis, both of whom I have
Speaker 4: bought sympathy cards for after how much time they've i
Speaker 4: to spend with us over the last month.
Speaker 2: Our audio producer is Leah Porge's, our video producer is
Speaker 2: Josh Green, our one man in our big team, Hey,
Speaker 2: and our junior content producers Coco and Tessa.
Speaker 4: Bye bye, out Louders. We know you're not ready to
Speaker 4: say goodbye. We thought we would leave you with a
Speaker 4: little bit of a conversation we had on a subscriber
Speaker 4: episode yesterday about an out louder who was having a
Speaker 4: pretty good time with a situationship that needed to end
Speaker 4: it and she hadn't ended a relationship in more than
Speaker 4: twenty years. Look did she come to the right place
Speaker 4: for advice?
Speaker 5: You will see a link to.
Speaker 4: That episode will be in the show notes. Shout out
Speaker 4: to any Mum and mea subscribers listening. If you love
Speaker 4: the show and you want to support us, subscribing to
Speaker 4: Mom and Mia is the very best way to do so.
Speaker 4: There's a link in the episode description