1 00:00:11,464 --> 00:00:16,024 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges 2 00:00:16,144 --> 00:00:19,624 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and borders that this podcast 3 00:00:19,704 --> 00:00:27,264 Speaker 1: is recorded on from Mamma Mia. Welcome to the Spill, 4 00:00:27,344 --> 00:00:30,184 Speaker 1: your daily pop culture fixed. I'm Laura Brodnick and. 5 00:00:30,184 --> 00:00:33,384 Speaker 2: I'm m Vernon And on the show today, we are 6 00:00:33,424 --> 00:00:35,464 Speaker 2: talking about Armie Hammer's redemption. 7 00:00:35,944 --> 00:00:38,344 Speaker 1: He's doing some interviews and they're very interesting. 8 00:00:38,544 --> 00:00:42,464 Speaker 2: We're also talking about Nikola Coughlin's latest campaign for Skimms. 9 00:00:42,784 --> 00:00:46,264 Speaker 1: But first some entertainment news that has made me so happy. 10 00:00:46,464 --> 00:00:48,544 Speaker 1: This is exactly why you do the spill, Like, this 11 00:00:48,624 --> 00:00:50,504 Speaker 1: is the way I do the spill for anyone who 12 00:00:50,544 --> 00:00:53,264 Speaker 1: doesn't know. I'm just a I only love Broadway songs 13 00:00:53,304 --> 00:00:56,184 Speaker 1: and Disney songs too. I'm multifaceted in that way. So 14 00:00:56,264 --> 00:00:58,264 Speaker 1: the Tony Awards were held this week, which is like 15 00:00:58,424 --> 00:01:00,784 Speaker 1: kind of like the Oscars for Broadway, you know, the 16 00:01:00,824 --> 00:01:05,064 Speaker 1: biggest awards night, very glitzy, very important, and this year 17 00:01:05,144 --> 00:01:07,144 Speaker 1: there are a lot of celebrities who cross over into 18 00:01:07,184 --> 00:01:09,064 Speaker 1: movie and TV, so there was making a lot of 19 00:01:09,104 --> 00:01:12,304 Speaker 1: kind of mainstream headline, lots of lovely moments. One is 20 00:01:12,304 --> 00:01:15,584 Speaker 1: that Angelina Jolie was there because her musical The Outsiders. 21 00:01:15,624 --> 00:01:17,864 Speaker 1: Did you read that book in high school? No? Oh 22 00:01:17,944 --> 00:01:20,184 Speaker 1: my god, it's amazing. I remember studying in high school 23 00:01:20,184 --> 00:01:21,544 Speaker 1: and being like, this is obsessed. I thought it was 24 00:01:21,584 --> 00:01:25,704 Speaker 1: mandatory for every Australian student to study maybe your Jen Baby, 25 00:01:26,464 --> 00:01:30,144 Speaker 1: probably Angelina Jolie and know the same age. Apparently, so 26 00:01:30,344 --> 00:01:32,544 Speaker 1: she produced that it won Best Musical, And why it 27 00:01:32,664 --> 00:01:35,504 Speaker 1: was making headlines is that she walked the Red carpet 28 00:01:35,824 --> 00:01:39,024 Speaker 1: with her daughter Vivian. That's her youngest daughter, who's fifty. 29 00:01:39,104 --> 00:01:40,904 Speaker 1: Is she the one who's a twin, Yes, a twin 30 00:01:40,944 --> 00:01:43,704 Speaker 1: with NOx. Yes. I do know all their names because 31 00:01:43,704 --> 00:01:46,224 Speaker 1: she worked as a production assistant on the show, like 32 00:01:46,264 --> 00:01:48,984 Speaker 1: as a runner at day. I know you know what 33 00:01:49,024 --> 00:01:52,424 Speaker 1: I would have done for a job like that. Nor 34 00:01:52,464 --> 00:01:55,064 Speaker 1: I thought that was nice news. But class they did 35 00:01:55,344 --> 00:01:58,344 Speaker 1: really cute together on the Red carpet. But the big takeaway, 36 00:01:58,424 --> 00:02:00,784 Speaker 1: the thing that everyone is talking about is a video 37 00:02:00,984 --> 00:02:02,744 Speaker 1: that when I watched it when I got home last night, 38 00:02:02,744 --> 00:02:04,904 Speaker 1: and I did break down in tears. And it's just 39 00:02:04,904 --> 00:02:07,904 Speaker 1: because it's when you see someone really live out their dreams. 40 00:02:08,344 --> 00:02:11,904 Speaker 1: And that is Jonathan Groff winning his first Tony Award. 41 00:02:12,264 --> 00:02:14,384 Speaker 1: If you're not across who Jonathan is. He has been 42 00:02:14,384 --> 00:02:16,824 Speaker 1: nominated twice before for Spring Awakening, which is where I 43 00:02:16,864 --> 00:02:18,104 Speaker 1: fell in love with him, and I listened to that 44 00:02:18,104 --> 00:02:20,464 Speaker 1: soundtrack over and over again. He was also one of 45 00:02:20,464 --> 00:02:23,264 Speaker 1: the founding members in Hamilton, was nominated for that. A 46 00:02:23,304 --> 00:02:25,264 Speaker 1: lot of people would know him from TV and movies. 47 00:02:25,464 --> 00:02:28,464 Speaker 1: Probably best to believe Jesse Saint James from Glee. 48 00:02:28,504 --> 00:02:32,104 Speaker 2: I know him from Glee as well as the King 49 00:02:32,264 --> 00:02:32,864 Speaker 2: in Hamilton. 50 00:02:33,104 --> 00:02:35,944 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, because he was also in the televised Disney version. 51 00:02:36,064 --> 00:02:38,424 Speaker 1: So he won for the first time. He's been in 52 00:02:38,424 --> 00:02:40,184 Speaker 1: the industry for many years, and he got up and 53 00:02:40,184 --> 00:02:45,584 Speaker 1: gave the most emotional, beautiful acceptance speech, talking about how 54 00:02:45,624 --> 00:02:47,424 Speaker 1: theater had saved him, how he'd moved there to be 55 00:02:47,464 --> 00:02:49,704 Speaker 1: a waiter like when he was a teenager. He thanked 56 00:02:49,704 --> 00:02:51,944 Speaker 1: his family who was sitting in the audience, his parents 57 00:02:51,944 --> 00:02:54,864 Speaker 1: and brother for like letting him just you know, follow 58 00:02:54,904 --> 00:02:56,744 Speaker 1: his dreams and not judging him as a little boy 59 00:02:56,744 --> 00:02:58,904 Speaker 1: when he wanted to dress up as Mary Poppins. Was 60 00:02:59,024 --> 00:03:01,504 Speaker 1: so beautiful. His voice was like he was just tearing up, 61 00:03:01,504 --> 00:03:04,184 Speaker 1: like that level of emotion. But then a really beautiful 62 00:03:04,184 --> 00:03:06,624 Speaker 1: moment is that he was talking about his co stars, 63 00:03:06,704 --> 00:03:09,944 Speaker 1: one of who is Harry potterstar Daniel Radcliff, who also 64 00:03:09,944 --> 00:03:12,384 Speaker 1: want to tell who won his first Tony last night too, 65 00:03:12,384 --> 00:03:15,424 Speaker 1: because he's been very big on Broadway since kind of 66 00:03:15,584 --> 00:03:18,064 Speaker 1: finishing that franchise. That's kind of been his main thing. 67 00:03:18,344 --> 00:03:20,744 Speaker 1: So he won his first Tony ward. Daniel Radcliffe thanked 68 00:03:20,744 --> 00:03:23,784 Speaker 1: his girlfriend and their little baby, but also Jonathan Groff 69 00:03:23,824 --> 00:03:26,344 Speaker 1: looked out to Daniel Radcliffe and his co stars and 70 00:03:26,344 --> 00:03:28,344 Speaker 1: said some beautiful things and they all cried. 71 00:03:29,024 --> 00:03:32,064 Speaker 3: I'm now thirty nine and musical theater is still saving 72 00:03:32,104 --> 00:03:36,104 Speaker 3: my soul. Daniel Radcliffe and Lindsay Mendes, you are more 73 00:03:36,144 --> 00:03:40,864 Speaker 3: than old friends, you are soulmates. And I'm looking forward 74 00:03:40,904 --> 00:03:43,664 Speaker 3: to watching each other change for the rest of our lives. 75 00:03:43,984 --> 00:03:45,504 Speaker 3: And finally, I just want to say, when I was 76 00:03:45,504 --> 00:03:48,064 Speaker 3: a kid in Pennsylvania, I used to record the Tony 77 00:03:48,104 --> 00:03:51,424 Speaker 3: Awards on a VHS tape and watch the performances over 78 00:03:51,504 --> 00:03:54,264 Speaker 3: and over again. To actually be able to be a 79 00:03:54,304 --> 00:03:57,864 Speaker 3: part of making theater in this city has been the 80 00:03:57,904 --> 00:04:00,904 Speaker 3: greatest gift and pleasure of my life. And I thank 81 00:04:00,984 --> 00:04:02,824 Speaker 3: you and thank you so much for this honor. 82 00:04:03,064 --> 00:04:05,784 Speaker 2: It is so beautiful. I think as a normy like me. 83 00:04:05,864 --> 00:04:09,464 Speaker 2: He's not a cross musical theater, especially my generation. When 84 00:04:09,504 --> 00:04:13,504 Speaker 2: you think of musical theater, you think of Jonathan Groff, 85 00:04:13,584 --> 00:04:16,504 Speaker 2: like he's been like our generation's face. And the fact 86 00:04:16,704 --> 00:04:19,424 Speaker 2: that this was his first Tony he one was firstly surprising, 87 00:04:19,504 --> 00:04:22,784 Speaker 2: but it's also so beautiful because with this speech you 88 00:04:22,824 --> 00:04:25,704 Speaker 2: can tell he's given so much to the industry and 89 00:04:25,744 --> 00:04:27,464 Speaker 2: now finally he's getting something back. 90 00:04:27,624 --> 00:04:29,464 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. I mean, he has had a very long, 91 00:04:29,584 --> 00:04:31,464 Speaker 1: you know, prestigious career, but I think that's the kind 92 00:04:31,464 --> 00:04:33,544 Speaker 1: of it's like an actor winning an Academy Award, Yeah, 93 00:04:33,704 --> 00:04:35,984 Speaker 1: after years of you know, being in the industry. So 94 00:04:36,024 --> 00:04:39,424 Speaker 1: it's like the Leonardo DiCaprio. Yeah exactly, except this time 95 00:04:39,424 --> 00:04:41,464 Speaker 1: it didn't feel like, oh, we'll just give it to you. 96 00:04:41,544 --> 00:04:44,024 Speaker 1: It felt like he won't necessarily we roll along, which 97 00:04:44,024 --> 00:04:46,704 Speaker 1: I should say is also at Daniel Radcliffe one at four. 98 00:04:46,744 --> 00:04:49,024 Speaker 1: He's amazing in that I've only listened to clips. I 99 00:04:49,144 --> 00:04:51,104 Speaker 1: haven't been to New York to see it. But if 100 00:04:51,144 --> 00:04:53,104 Speaker 1: you're a Jonathan Groff fan and you loved him in Hamilton, 101 00:04:53,224 --> 00:04:55,984 Speaker 1: listened to him in the original Spring Awakening soundtrack, because 102 00:04:56,024 --> 00:05:01,424 Speaker 1: his voice is oh heavenly so. Armie Hammer's name has 103 00:05:01,504 --> 00:05:03,184 Speaker 1: been in the headlines a lot over the last couple 104 00:05:03,224 --> 00:05:05,424 Speaker 1: of days. If you cast your mind back a couple 105 00:05:05,464 --> 00:05:08,544 Speaker 1: of years, he was the golden boy of movies, which 106 00:05:08,544 --> 00:05:11,064 Speaker 1: is interesting because he had many many flow in a row, 107 00:05:11,544 --> 00:05:14,304 Speaker 1: and the studios in Hollywood, for some reason, kept just 108 00:05:14,344 --> 00:05:16,664 Speaker 1: trying to make Armie Hammer happen. Obviously, Call Me by 109 00:05:16,664 --> 00:05:19,064 Speaker 1: Your Name, which he was in with Timothy Shallomy, was 110 00:05:19,064 --> 00:05:21,464 Speaker 1: critically acclaimed and people loved him in that. But then 111 00:05:21,504 --> 00:05:23,904 Speaker 1: he started in a string of very forgettable blockbusters that 112 00:05:23,944 --> 00:05:26,064 Speaker 1: I won't bore you with that didn't make a lot 113 00:05:26,064 --> 00:05:28,344 Speaker 1: of money. But everyone's like, he's so handsome in an 114 00:05:28,384 --> 00:05:30,264 Speaker 1: old school way, and he comes from a super rich family, 115 00:05:30,344 --> 00:05:32,984 Speaker 1: and we like him, and sometimes he's really cute in interviews, 116 00:05:32,984 --> 00:05:34,864 Speaker 1: and it was all very sweet, and he was married 117 00:05:34,864 --> 00:05:36,944 Speaker 1: to a lovely woman called Elizbeth Chambers. They had two 118 00:05:36,984 --> 00:05:39,064 Speaker 1: little kids. Everyone loved him. He had like an it 119 00:05:39,264 --> 00:05:41,904 Speaker 1: boy edit, yes, one hundred percent, and everyone's like, even 120 00:05:41,904 --> 00:05:43,864 Speaker 1: though we've given him ten chances, he's just one more 121 00:05:43,944 --> 00:05:48,784 Speaker 1: roll away from being a bankable actor. Then in twenty 122 00:05:48,824 --> 00:05:51,704 Speaker 1: twenty one, there were a number of allegations, and they 123 00:05:51,744 --> 00:05:53,504 Speaker 1: started off from a woman who was no One under 124 00:05:53,544 --> 00:05:56,664 Speaker 1: an alias name as Effie, who alleged that she had 125 00:05:56,664 --> 00:05:59,264 Speaker 1: been on and off relationship with Armie Hammer for years, 126 00:05:59,264 --> 00:06:01,504 Speaker 1: which is something and he later clarified they were having 127 00:06:01,864 --> 00:06:05,464 Speaker 1: an affair behind his wife's back, and she reported Hammer 128 00:06:05,544 --> 00:06:07,784 Speaker 1: to the police and claimed he had raped her in 129 00:06:07,824 --> 00:06:11,744 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, and she also shared a series of very 130 00:06:11,864 --> 00:06:14,184 Speaker 1: graphic text messages this is where the whole thing kicked 131 00:06:14,184 --> 00:06:18,144 Speaker 1: off that were made public that were from Hammer, where 132 00:06:18,144 --> 00:06:19,424 Speaker 1: you know, there are a lot of kind of very 133 00:06:19,424 --> 00:06:22,464 Speaker 1: aggressive things in there. And he also was talking about 134 00:06:22,504 --> 00:06:26,384 Speaker 1: being accountable in terms of like their sexual relationship and 135 00:06:26,424 --> 00:06:27,824 Speaker 1: things he wanted to do to her. It was all 136 00:06:27,944 --> 00:06:31,464 Speaker 1: very intense. Soon after that, two other women also came 137 00:06:31,544 --> 00:06:36,304 Speaker 1: forward with different accusations against Armie Hammer for sexual coersion 138 00:06:36,344 --> 00:06:40,784 Speaker 1: and emotional abuse. Between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty. One 139 00:06:40,784 --> 00:06:43,424 Speaker 1: of the women came forward under her name Paige Lorenz 140 00:06:43,544 --> 00:06:46,344 Speaker 1: and spoke to Vanity Fair also made like some public 141 00:06:46,384 --> 00:06:49,424 Speaker 1: statements sharing her experience with Armie Hammer, saying it had 142 00:06:49,424 --> 00:06:52,184 Speaker 1: been violent, it had been brutal. He would say things 143 00:06:52,184 --> 00:06:54,104 Speaker 1: to her like I want to eat your ribs and 144 00:06:54,504 --> 00:06:57,184 Speaker 1: just yeah, very kind of very intense that it should 145 00:06:57,184 --> 00:07:00,024 Speaker 1: be said that through all of this, Armie Hammer apologized 146 00:07:00,104 --> 00:07:04,184 Speaker 1: for cheating on his wife Elizabeth, but denied any of 147 00:07:04,224 --> 00:07:09,384 Speaker 1: the accusations about sexual coersion abuse physical abuse that came out. 148 00:07:09,584 --> 00:07:11,584 Speaker 1: He denied the can as well, but I just think 149 00:07:11,584 --> 00:07:13,864 Speaker 1: it's important to kind of get a scope of the 150 00:07:13,904 --> 00:07:18,224 Speaker 1: allegations here. And so he lost all of his studio deals, 151 00:07:18,344 --> 00:07:21,224 Speaker 1: it was dropped by his agency. His wife left him 152 00:07:21,224 --> 00:07:23,304 Speaker 1: with their two children. He then hit out for a 153 00:07:23,344 --> 00:07:25,384 Speaker 1: while on the Cayman Islands where he was spotted Like 154 00:07:25,984 --> 00:07:27,904 Speaker 1: there was back and forth whether he was working at 155 00:07:27,904 --> 00:07:30,744 Speaker 1: the resort or he was just doing selling real estate 156 00:07:30,784 --> 00:07:31,384 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. 157 00:07:31,624 --> 00:07:34,184 Speaker 2: It did look like he was like the way he 158 00:07:34,304 --> 00:07:36,744 Speaker 2: dressed was like a little short and like a polo, 159 00:07:36,784 --> 00:07:38,104 Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, he's definitely. 160 00:07:37,744 --> 00:07:39,864 Speaker 1: Got yeah, I think he was selling real estate. Anyway. 161 00:07:39,864 --> 00:07:42,504 Speaker 1: It was a very murky. So in a recent episode 162 00:07:42,504 --> 00:07:45,944 Speaker 1: of the Painful Lessons podcast with host Tyler Ramsay, he 163 00:07:46,344 --> 00:07:49,184 Speaker 1: talks about all the allegations and really kind of zeros 164 00:07:49,264 --> 00:07:52,664 Speaker 1: in on the cannibalism element of the accusations and what 165 00:07:52,784 --> 00:07:53,784 Speaker 1: happened to him after that. 166 00:07:53,904 --> 00:07:55,784 Speaker 4: I'm able to sort of look at it with a 167 00:07:55,824 --> 00:08:00,264 Speaker 4: sense of distance and perspective and be like, that's hilarious. 168 00:08:00,544 --> 00:08:04,784 Speaker 4: Like people called me a cannibal, and everyone believed them. 169 00:08:05,184 --> 00:08:08,704 Speaker 4: But here's what I will say about it, even in 170 00:08:08,784 --> 00:08:13,184 Speaker 4: the indiscrepancies, I'm now at a place in my life 171 00:08:13,464 --> 00:08:17,304 Speaker 4: where I'm grateful for every single bit of it, because 172 00:08:18,184 --> 00:08:21,504 Speaker 4: where I was in my life before all of that 173 00:08:21,544 --> 00:08:24,624 Speaker 4: stuff happened to me, I didn't feel good. I never 174 00:08:24,664 --> 00:08:28,264 Speaker 4: felt satisfied. I never had enough. You know, I was 175 00:08:28,304 --> 00:08:31,344 Speaker 4: burning the candle pretty hard on both ends. 176 00:08:31,744 --> 00:08:36,024 Speaker 2: It's so interesting that he gave this interview, especially after 177 00:08:36,944 --> 00:08:39,424 Speaker 2: what those women said he was saying to them and 178 00:08:39,784 --> 00:08:42,664 Speaker 2: what he did to them. I do remember when all 179 00:08:42,704 --> 00:08:46,384 Speaker 2: of this happened, and it was also during the promotion 180 00:08:46,744 --> 00:08:48,024 Speaker 2: of Death. 181 00:08:47,784 --> 00:08:48,384 Speaker 1: On the Nile. 182 00:08:48,664 --> 00:08:51,304 Speaker 2: Yes, and he was a main character in that, and 183 00:08:51,344 --> 00:08:54,464 Speaker 2: then like the entire like marketing team just pretended he 184 00:08:54,544 --> 00:08:55,824 Speaker 2: wasn't in that film. 185 00:08:55,584 --> 00:08:56,864 Speaker 1: Like it was everything. 186 00:08:56,984 --> 00:08:58,664 Speaker 2: It wasn't then the posters or anything, and yet he 187 00:08:58,704 --> 00:09:00,864 Speaker 2: was such a prominent character. And then it was so 188 00:09:00,944 --> 00:09:02,464 Speaker 2: interesting because that whole movie, even though he was the 189 00:09:02,464 --> 00:09:04,144 Speaker 2: main character, I kind of forgot he was in it 190 00:09:04,184 --> 00:09:08,624 Speaker 2: completely and after all that I forgot he existed, And 191 00:09:09,104 --> 00:09:11,824 Speaker 2: the cannibal thing is the one thing that just stuck 192 00:09:11,944 --> 00:09:15,744 Speaker 2: with me because it was so absurd. And I feel 193 00:09:15,944 --> 00:09:19,064 Speaker 2: so bad after hearing you repeat what those women said, 194 00:09:19,064 --> 00:09:21,144 Speaker 2: even though I knew what they said, that it was 195 00:09:21,144 --> 00:09:23,744 Speaker 2: only the cannibal thing that stuck with me because it's 196 00:09:23,784 --> 00:09:26,184 Speaker 2: so absurd that it feels like it's not serious. 197 00:09:26,584 --> 00:09:28,184 Speaker 1: This is the thing I've had a real big problem 198 00:09:28,224 --> 00:09:31,704 Speaker 1: with today of people taking these interview clips and the 199 00:09:31,744 --> 00:09:34,184 Speaker 1: headlines around it of him laughing of being a cannibal, 200 00:09:34,184 --> 00:09:37,104 Speaker 1: and isn't that so wild? And he's really zeroed in 201 00:09:37,144 --> 00:09:37,744 Speaker 1: on this idea. 202 00:09:37,944 --> 00:09:40,104 Speaker 2: He's confirming what everyone's already said exactly. 203 00:09:40,104 --> 00:09:42,744 Speaker 1: He's zered in on this idea that the most important 204 00:09:42,744 --> 00:09:45,624 Speaker 1: thing here is this one little part of the accusations. Also, 205 00:09:45,784 --> 00:09:48,264 Speaker 1: none of these women were saying he actually was a cannibal. 206 00:09:48,504 --> 00:09:50,424 Speaker 1: This is the thing people are forgetting, is that these 207 00:09:50,464 --> 00:09:52,984 Speaker 1: women came forward and yes, he wasn't charged, but he 208 00:09:53,024 --> 00:09:55,424 Speaker 1: wasn't charged because he was found innocent. Is that the 209 00:09:55,464 --> 00:09:58,184 Speaker 1: accusations didn't go to court because it's actually very hard 210 00:09:58,224 --> 00:10:00,224 Speaker 1: to sort of prove a lot of this stuff, and 211 00:10:00,304 --> 00:10:03,344 Speaker 1: they found especially because of the woman called Effie with 212 00:10:03,424 --> 00:10:06,384 Speaker 1: the relationship they had. Because some of it was consensual, 213 00:10:06,424 --> 00:10:09,224 Speaker 1: it's very hard to prove what wasn't then. So it's 214 00:10:09,224 --> 00:10:11,424 Speaker 1: one of those things where this a lot when allegations 215 00:10:11,424 --> 00:10:13,904 Speaker 1: like this come out and they just don't go to 216 00:10:13,944 --> 00:10:16,144 Speaker 1: court and people think, well, they're innocent. No, it's because 217 00:10:16,384 --> 00:10:18,184 Speaker 1: very hard to take something like this to trial. It 218 00:10:18,344 --> 00:10:21,504 Speaker 1: even harder to find someone guilty, and so I think 219 00:10:21,504 --> 00:10:25,224 Speaker 1: people are forgetting that there were accusations from at least 220 00:10:25,264 --> 00:10:29,624 Speaker 1: three separate women of some very violent, disturbing physical and 221 00:10:29,704 --> 00:10:33,024 Speaker 1: sexual assault, and that's kind of been laughed away just 222 00:10:33,024 --> 00:10:35,984 Speaker 1: because in the text there are a few comments about candalism, 223 00:10:36,024 --> 00:10:38,304 Speaker 1: which not great, but none of these women were saying 224 00:10:38,304 --> 00:10:40,264 Speaker 1: he sent me a text message about cannabism. That's why 225 00:10:40,304 --> 00:10:42,184 Speaker 1: one cancel like some of the stuff they talked about. 226 00:10:42,184 --> 00:10:44,584 Speaker 1: How what they alleged he did in terms of like 227 00:10:44,864 --> 00:10:47,104 Speaker 1: physical assault and things he would say and do to 228 00:10:47,144 --> 00:10:51,744 Speaker 1: them is completely just so terrible and disturbing, and I 229 00:10:51,744 --> 00:10:54,544 Speaker 1: feel like it being laughed off as a little cannibalism 230 00:10:54,664 --> 00:10:57,584 Speaker 1: joke is not giving the proper importance to what these 231 00:10:57,584 --> 00:10:59,544 Speaker 1: women were saying, and that's why it's so easy for 232 00:10:59,584 --> 00:11:01,704 Speaker 1: men to come back from stuff like this, because I 233 00:11:01,704 --> 00:11:03,824 Speaker 1: don't think he'll go back to his big blockbuster career. 234 00:11:03,864 --> 00:11:05,824 Speaker 1: But a lot of people in Hollywood are very supportive 235 00:11:05,864 --> 00:11:09,624 Speaker 1: of him. Robert Downey Jr. Apparently paid for his rehab 236 00:11:09,664 --> 00:11:11,744 Speaker 1: and has been like sticking by his side, and he 237 00:11:11,784 --> 00:11:14,304 Speaker 1: comes from a very rich family, so it feels like 238 00:11:14,344 --> 00:11:17,584 Speaker 1: he can slowly get his way back into Hollywood. And 239 00:11:17,664 --> 00:11:20,864 Speaker 1: all people are remembering is the cannibalism stuff, and that's 240 00:11:20,864 --> 00:11:22,864 Speaker 1: why he's leaning into that and laughing it off and 241 00:11:22,864 --> 00:11:24,944 Speaker 1: being like, oh, this absurd thing happened. But you know, 242 00:11:24,984 --> 00:11:26,664 Speaker 1: I'm just looking after my kids now and I'm such 243 00:11:26,664 --> 00:11:29,024 Speaker 1: a good guy. And obviously we don't know what happened. 244 00:11:29,104 --> 00:11:31,024 Speaker 1: You know, we weren't there for those instances, but we 245 00:11:31,064 --> 00:11:34,464 Speaker 1: do no statistically that women don't lie about this stuff, 246 00:11:34,504 --> 00:11:37,504 Speaker 1: and for three separate women to come forward, that's a 247 00:11:37,504 --> 00:11:38,704 Speaker 1: big deal. Yeah. 248 00:11:38,784 --> 00:11:41,544 Speaker 2: I think it's so irresponsible for him and his PR 249 00:11:41,624 --> 00:11:44,824 Speaker 2: team to use the descriptive word of being hilarious, of 250 00:11:44,944 --> 00:11:47,464 Speaker 2: that being hilarious, yeah, exactly, because I think what they're 251 00:11:47,544 --> 00:11:50,544 Speaker 2: leaning in on is like things that are so bizarre, 252 00:11:51,144 --> 00:11:54,584 Speaker 2: because it's so shocking, it's so closely connected to it 253 00:11:54,664 --> 00:11:57,184 Speaker 2: being funny, because we just couldn't like handle like how 254 00:11:57,224 --> 00:11:59,504 Speaker 2: funny it is, and it's actually not. It's like what 255 00:11:59,584 --> 00:12:01,984 Speaker 2: you said, it's terrifying. Like what he allegedly did to 256 00:12:01,984 --> 00:12:07,224 Speaker 2: those women is so brutal and so concerning, and I 257 00:12:07,264 --> 00:12:09,704 Speaker 2: feel for them that they put those words out there 258 00:12:09,744 --> 00:12:11,744 Speaker 2: and now it's just been made a mockery out of 259 00:12:12,224 --> 00:12:12,784 Speaker 2: coming up. 260 00:12:12,664 --> 00:12:13,384 Speaker 1: After the break. 261 00:12:13,504 --> 00:12:17,144 Speaker 2: Nikola Cochlin is the face for the latest Skims campaign 262 00:12:17,264 --> 00:12:24,264 Speaker 2: and we are going to be unpacking that so season 263 00:12:24,384 --> 00:12:26,744 Speaker 2: three Bridges and star Nicola Cocklin, as well as the 264 00:12:26,744 --> 00:12:29,784 Speaker 2: star of Dairy Girls, our favorite show ever, is the 265 00:12:29,824 --> 00:12:33,664 Speaker 2: face of Kim Kardashian's latest Skims campaign. Skims is an 266 00:12:33,704 --> 00:12:36,384 Speaker 2: internationally famous shapewear brand. I think it's one of the 267 00:12:36,424 --> 00:12:40,144 Speaker 2: most successful businesses Kim has started. Oh yes, I mean 268 00:12:40,264 --> 00:12:43,024 Speaker 2: throw back to the app the billion dollar business. 269 00:12:44,024 --> 00:12:44,704 Speaker 1: It's so good. 270 00:12:44,944 --> 00:12:48,064 Speaker 2: It gained a lot of attention through TikTok, which is 271 00:12:48,104 --> 00:12:52,544 Speaker 2: I think where everyone started to applaud its size inclusivity. 272 00:12:52,784 --> 00:12:55,944 Speaker 2: So many women were trying on like shapewear from Skims 273 00:12:55,984 --> 00:12:57,864 Speaker 2: and just like talking about how much they loved it. 274 00:12:58,104 --> 00:13:00,104 Speaker 2: And I did buy a bodycon dress from Skims and 275 00:13:00,264 --> 00:13:00,704 Speaker 2: you did. 276 00:13:00,864 --> 00:13:02,464 Speaker 1: I do love it. I was on the wait list 277 00:13:02,504 --> 00:13:02,744 Speaker 1: for I. 278 00:13:02,784 --> 00:13:06,384 Speaker 2: Felt like months, but yeah, it looks great. Can confirm. 279 00:13:06,664 --> 00:13:06,744 Speaker 4: So. 280 00:13:06,824 --> 00:13:09,584 Speaker 2: In the latest campaign, Nikola is seen wearing these kind 281 00:13:09,624 --> 00:13:13,824 Speaker 2: of beautiful chic bodycon dresses referred to a soft lounge, 282 00:13:14,104 --> 00:13:15,864 Speaker 2: which I want to be referred to as soft lounge. 283 00:13:15,904 --> 00:13:17,464 Speaker 1: You think I embody that you really do. 284 00:13:18,184 --> 00:13:22,704 Speaker 2: Initially when I saw these photos, I thought Kim Kardashian 285 00:13:23,304 --> 00:13:27,424 Speaker 2: is a genius. Her PR team are so good at 286 00:13:27,504 --> 00:13:30,704 Speaker 2: kind of honing in on I guess the quote unquote 287 00:13:30,784 --> 00:13:34,184 Speaker 2: next big thing, and jumping on them and like making 288 00:13:34,224 --> 00:13:37,264 Speaker 2: them the face of the new campaign they're starting before 289 00:13:37,344 --> 00:13:40,624 Speaker 2: kind of like they become unfamous again. It's like Nikola 290 00:13:40,664 --> 00:13:42,664 Speaker 2: Coughlin's in the Zai guys, and they're so good at 291 00:13:42,704 --> 00:13:44,624 Speaker 2: like knowing who's going to be in the Zai guys, 292 00:13:44,664 --> 00:13:46,504 Speaker 2: how long they're going to be in there for, and 293 00:13:46,544 --> 00:13:49,344 Speaker 2: then just like making money off of that exactly. 294 00:13:49,344 --> 00:13:50,984 Speaker 1: They're very good at being reactive. I think a lot 295 00:13:50,984 --> 00:13:52,824 Speaker 1: of this is probably the motion. The wheels would have 296 00:13:52,864 --> 00:13:54,984 Speaker 1: been set in motion a little while ago, but she 297 00:13:55,104 --> 00:13:57,464 Speaker 1: has been very candid about saying that because it's a 298 00:13:57,464 --> 00:13:59,824 Speaker 1: digital campaign. If you can get access to the person, 299 00:13:59,904 --> 00:14:02,384 Speaker 1: you can turn it around very quickly. Kim Karashian, I 300 00:14:02,424 --> 00:14:04,224 Speaker 1: feel like, just loves getting in on a big pop 301 00:14:04,264 --> 00:14:06,784 Speaker 1: culture moment, even though sometimes she seems a bit out 302 00:14:06,784 --> 00:14:09,464 Speaker 1: of like the entertainment pop culture sphere in terms of 303 00:14:09,464 --> 00:14:12,264 Speaker 1: what content she is consuming. She seems to kind of 304 00:14:12,264 --> 00:14:13,744 Speaker 1: like look and be like, oh, this person's about to 305 00:14:13,784 --> 00:14:15,984 Speaker 1: have a big moment, like when Sabrina Carpenter was sort 306 00:14:15,984 --> 00:14:17,664 Speaker 1: of has been famous for a while, but was really 307 00:14:17,664 --> 00:14:20,744 Speaker 1: blowing up at one stage and pulled her in for 308 00:14:20,784 --> 00:14:23,904 Speaker 1: a campaign. And it's so interesting because recently Sabrina Carpenter's 309 00:14:23,904 --> 00:14:25,904 Speaker 1: had to come out and say that she consulted Taylor 310 00:14:25,944 --> 00:14:28,144 Speaker 1: Swift and they talk all the time about being in 311 00:14:28,184 --> 00:14:30,624 Speaker 1: the Skims campaign. I think this is before the Kim 312 00:14:30,704 --> 00:14:33,184 Speaker 1: song came out and her new album, And I think 313 00:14:33,224 --> 00:14:35,984 Speaker 1: also Kim Kardashian is a wild fan of Bridgington, which 314 00:14:36,024 --> 00:14:39,624 Speaker 1: I know because she's very infamously known for posting photos 315 00:14:39,664 --> 00:14:43,584 Speaker 1: from her massive screening room in her beige horror mansion 316 00:14:44,104 --> 00:14:46,424 Speaker 1: and is like always posting by Bridgeton every time it 317 00:14:46,464 --> 00:14:48,504 Speaker 1: comes out. Sometimes she gives spoilers, like when she spoiled 318 00:14:48,504 --> 00:14:50,264 Speaker 1: the New Spider Man movie and that sort of stuff 319 00:14:50,264 --> 00:14:52,104 Speaker 1: that's neither here nor there. But I think for the 320 00:14:52,504 --> 00:14:55,624 Speaker 1: because she's so like such a bridgeton fan and she's 321 00:14:55,624 --> 00:14:58,344 Speaker 1: so big about tapping into the moment that she pulled 322 00:14:58,384 --> 00:15:00,704 Speaker 1: Nikola cochlin in, who was a beautiful, famous woman, So 323 00:15:00,864 --> 00:15:03,424 Speaker 1: that doesn't make that's totally fine. What I thought was 324 00:15:03,464 --> 00:15:06,224 Speaker 1: interesting is that the thing about Skims as a brand 325 00:15:06,304 --> 00:15:09,464 Speaker 1: is like, yes, it's very size inclusive, and as you're saying, like, 326 00:15:09,504 --> 00:15:12,744 Speaker 1: there's so many plus size influencers and fashion bloggers that 327 00:15:12,864 --> 00:15:15,264 Speaker 1: I follow who are uter size twenty eight and thirty, 328 00:15:15,304 --> 00:15:17,824 Speaker 1: and they'll do these videos where they order skims and like, 329 00:15:17,864 --> 00:15:19,424 Speaker 1: this isn't going to fit in that it does fit, 330 00:15:19,504 --> 00:15:21,824 Speaker 1: and like it's just, you know, a very inclusive brand. 331 00:15:22,144 --> 00:15:25,544 Speaker 1: But at the same time, Kim Kardashian's actual brand around 332 00:15:25,584 --> 00:15:27,944 Speaker 1: it in terms of like the marketing and who they use, 333 00:15:28,104 --> 00:15:29,264 Speaker 1: is not very inclusive. 334 00:15:29,704 --> 00:15:32,944 Speaker 2: I thought so as well. And what I was kind 335 00:15:32,984 --> 00:15:36,344 Speaker 2: of disappointed in and seeing Nikola Cochlan's photos, which is 336 00:15:36,384 --> 00:15:39,064 Speaker 2: something we've talked in depth about with using plus sized 337 00:15:39,104 --> 00:15:41,544 Speaker 2: women on the cover of magazines, is a kind of 338 00:15:41,624 --> 00:15:44,424 Speaker 2: clothes they dress them in, like I've seen like Sabrina 339 00:15:44,424 --> 00:15:47,504 Speaker 2: Carpenter when she did the shoot with Megan Fox and 340 00:15:47,544 --> 00:15:50,864 Speaker 2: even Lana da Ray, like they're all in like lingerie, 341 00:15:51,064 --> 00:15:54,344 Speaker 2: and Nikola Cochlin's in these long body con dresses, and 342 00:15:54,384 --> 00:15:57,384 Speaker 2: I think it's so telling to see that it's plus 343 00:15:57,424 --> 00:16:00,824 Speaker 2: sized women and Nikola Cochlan classifies. I think we classify 344 00:16:00,864 --> 00:16:03,584 Speaker 2: her as like plus size women in Hollywood standard. Yeah. 345 00:16:03,624 --> 00:16:05,664 Speaker 1: In the end, that's been the hard thing about Brigitton 346 00:16:05,744 --> 00:16:09,064 Speaker 1: and kind of this season is that as much as 347 00:16:09,144 --> 00:16:12,064 Speaker 1: Nikola Cochlan is not a plus sized woman by kind 348 00:16:12,064 --> 00:16:14,224 Speaker 1: of I guess it's so very normal standards. I know 349 00:16:14,344 --> 00:16:16,184 Speaker 1: this as someone who has been in a room with 350 00:16:16,224 --> 00:16:19,864 Speaker 1: her multiple times and sat across from her recently, that 351 00:16:19,904 --> 00:16:23,944 Speaker 1: she's a very small person. But the standards of who 352 00:16:24,024 --> 00:16:26,784 Speaker 1: we see on our TV screens and on movie screens 353 00:16:26,904 --> 00:16:30,184 Speaker 1: is so warped that anyone who is not just has 354 00:16:30,184 --> 00:16:32,784 Speaker 1: a very thin body, but has a particular face shape, 355 00:16:32,824 --> 00:16:35,824 Speaker 1: thin face shape. There's also some women who have slight 356 00:16:35,904 --> 00:16:38,664 Speaker 1: curved bodies who are kind of allowed into the entertainment industry, 357 00:16:38,704 --> 00:16:40,784 Speaker 1: but they always have like a very angular face, a 358 00:16:40,904 --> 00:16:43,104 Speaker 1: very flat stomach, like they carry their weight in very 359 00:16:43,104 --> 00:16:46,584 Speaker 1: particular places, so they can kind of like sneak in almost, 360 00:16:46,984 --> 00:16:49,624 Speaker 1: And so that's why with Nikola there's been these all 361 00:16:49,624 --> 00:16:52,544 Speaker 1: these kind of different yelling from either side. And the 362 00:16:52,584 --> 00:16:54,704 Speaker 1: hard thing is that both sides are right. Is that 363 00:16:55,104 --> 00:16:57,744 Speaker 1: one side is saying she's not plus sized, but even 364 00:16:57,784 --> 00:17:00,024 Speaker 1: if she was, we shouldn't be talking about her body. 365 00:17:00,264 --> 00:17:02,864 Speaker 1: And there's another group of people who are saying, but 366 00:17:03,064 --> 00:17:05,664 Speaker 1: her body does look different to who we see, especially 367 00:17:05,704 --> 00:17:09,104 Speaker 1: in these regency romance kind of shows, but especially on 368 00:17:09,144 --> 00:17:11,104 Speaker 1: a big Netflix show. If you look around it, like 369 00:17:11,424 --> 00:17:13,264 Speaker 1: movies and TV shows have come out this year, like, 370 00:17:13,304 --> 00:17:15,864 Speaker 1: can you name any people who don't fit a very 371 00:17:15,904 --> 00:17:19,304 Speaker 1: particular mold, Like there's very very few, and it's important 372 00:17:19,304 --> 00:17:22,544 Speaker 1: to kind of look at that and examine why that is. 373 00:17:23,064 --> 00:17:24,904 Speaker 1: And also a lot of people are saying that they're 374 00:17:24,904 --> 00:17:27,264 Speaker 1: not feeling the love story this season, or they're not 375 00:17:27,344 --> 00:17:29,344 Speaker 1: kind of feeling her as the lead, And a lot 376 00:17:29,384 --> 00:17:31,144 Speaker 1: of people won't say it out loud, but like, is 377 00:17:31,224 --> 00:17:33,784 Speaker 1: that because some part of her doesn't look like what 378 00:17:33,904 --> 00:17:36,944 Speaker 1: you expect a romance heroin to look like. Most people 379 00:17:36,944 --> 00:17:38,904 Speaker 1: aren't going to say that out loud, but we all 380 00:17:38,944 --> 00:17:42,224 Speaker 1: have an internalized fat and body phobia that comes into 381 00:17:42,224 --> 00:17:44,744 Speaker 1: work around this. So I just think people saying like, oh, 382 00:17:44,984 --> 00:17:47,384 Speaker 1: don't talk about it is also not helpful. I just 383 00:17:47,424 --> 00:17:50,064 Speaker 1: hate this conversation is happening around this big moment that 384 00:17:50,104 --> 00:17:52,544 Speaker 1: she's having. But this is what happens. I always say this, 385 00:17:52,624 --> 00:17:55,304 Speaker 1: and I know it's boring, but it's the truth. Every time. 386 00:17:55,504 --> 00:17:58,584 Speaker 1: This always happens when you have one person who doesn't 387 00:17:58,624 --> 00:18:01,624 Speaker 1: slightly fit the mold in any way, the story becomes 388 00:18:01,664 --> 00:18:04,144 Speaker 1: about their weight. And if we had every cast had 389 00:18:04,224 --> 00:18:08,144 Speaker 1: multiple people of different size of shapes, backgrounds, this wouldn't 390 00:18:08,144 --> 00:18:10,304 Speaker 1: be the case. But it's like every time any person 391 00:18:10,384 --> 00:18:12,944 Speaker 1: and who looks slightly different sticks their head out, the 392 00:18:12,984 --> 00:18:15,304 Speaker 1: whole weight of how we feel about bodies gets lumped 393 00:18:15,304 --> 00:18:17,344 Speaker 1: on them and the conversation turns ugly. 394 00:18:17,784 --> 00:18:21,704 Speaker 2: I also just don't like appreciate how the photos that 395 00:18:21,744 --> 00:18:24,624 Speaker 2: have been released, Yes, she looks absolutely stunning, but she's 396 00:18:24,624 --> 00:18:26,544 Speaker 2: still covered up in like a long dress. 397 00:18:26,624 --> 00:18:26,824 Speaker 4: Yeah. 398 00:18:26,864 --> 00:18:29,104 Speaker 2: It's also hard to know if that was her choice, 399 00:18:29,264 --> 00:18:30,784 Speaker 2: which I want to know because I'm like, she was 400 00:18:30,824 --> 00:18:34,864 Speaker 2: so adamant on like doing like nude shots for bridges. 401 00:18:34,504 --> 00:18:38,104 Speaker 1: She had in her contract that she was like everyone else, 402 00:18:38,144 --> 00:18:39,944 Speaker 1: every other woman who's being the lead of this show. 403 00:18:40,024 --> 00:18:41,944 Speaker 2: And I was so excited to see her in lingerie 404 00:18:41,944 --> 00:18:43,664 Speaker 2: because she's the same size as me, and I was like, 405 00:18:43,664 --> 00:18:46,264 Speaker 2: I want to see someone who has the same kind 406 00:18:46,304 --> 00:18:48,664 Speaker 2: of like sized body as I do. Where Laingerie on 407 00:18:48,744 --> 00:18:50,664 Speaker 2: the Skims Instagram. 408 00:18:50,304 --> 00:18:52,664 Speaker 1: And we talked about briefly on our bridges An episode 409 00:18:52,704 --> 00:18:56,064 Speaker 1: last week, Like it was so sensual but beautiful in 410 00:18:56,064 --> 00:18:58,584 Speaker 1: that sex scene where you see her breasts and the 411 00:18:58,624 --> 00:18:59,344 Speaker 1: way they move and. 412 00:18:59,344 --> 00:19:00,904 Speaker 2: You saw that she had like I think it was 413 00:19:01,144 --> 00:19:04,144 Speaker 2: literally the most beautiful bridgitt in sexte hundred percent when 414 00:19:04,224 --> 00:19:06,064 Speaker 2: you saw like, you know, a bit of thigh, this 415 00:19:06,264 --> 00:19:09,184 Speaker 2: beautiful soft skind of stomach and these just everything about 416 00:19:09,224 --> 00:19:11,424 Speaker 2: it was just like so beautiful and perfect. 417 00:19:11,424 --> 00:19:13,224 Speaker 1: And I can understand why she was like I want 418 00:19:13,264 --> 00:19:16,184 Speaker 1: this body on screen for everyone to see because it's hot. 419 00:19:16,624 --> 00:19:18,664 Speaker 1: And it's hard to know if with skins of like 420 00:19:18,704 --> 00:19:21,624 Speaker 1: that was just the campaign they had or she chose 421 00:19:21,664 --> 00:19:23,944 Speaker 1: those outfits or anything, you know, I feel like that 422 00:19:23,984 --> 00:19:25,304 Speaker 1: it's hard to kind of like, I don't want to 423 00:19:25,304 --> 00:19:27,304 Speaker 1: put that on her. They didn't let her wear the 424 00:19:27,384 --> 00:19:29,584 Speaker 1: lingerie or the thongs or anything like that they have 425 00:19:29,664 --> 00:19:32,344 Speaker 1: for other people, but it's yeah, it's because it doesn't 426 00:19:32,344 --> 00:19:34,504 Speaker 1: happen that often. Whenever it's something like this comes out, 427 00:19:34,544 --> 00:19:36,624 Speaker 1: we start examining it in a really intense way. 428 00:19:37,224 --> 00:19:39,704 Speaker 2: So we did talk quite in depth about the sex 429 00:19:39,704 --> 00:19:42,384 Speaker 2: scene and sex scenes in general in film and TV 430 00:19:42,784 --> 00:19:44,944 Speaker 2: on an episode of the Spill. We will link that 431 00:19:44,984 --> 00:19:47,304 Speaker 2: one in the show notes. Thank you so much for 432 00:19:47,344 --> 00:19:49,664 Speaker 2: listening to The Spill today. If you love listening to us, 433 00:19:49,704 --> 00:19:52,184 Speaker 2: please give us a five star rate and review five 434 00:19:52,184 --> 00:19:54,904 Speaker 2: stars only please on whichever podcast app you listen to 435 00:19:55,024 --> 00:19:57,464 Speaker 2: us on. Otherwise we will be back in your feed 436 00:19:57,504 --> 00:19:58,784 Speaker 2: at three pm tomorrow. 437 00:19:58,904 --> 00:20:02,784 Speaker 1: Bye bye Lan.