WEBVTT - Madeleine West On Confronting Her Monsters And Motherhood At 47 0:00:10.365 --> 0:00:13.085 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.885 --> 0:00:16.845 Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.885 --> 0:00:18.525 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:18.685 --> 0:00:22.925 Hence why I feel so grateful to be precisely where 0:00:22.965 --> 0:00:28.285 I am now, with this little miracle who was clearly, 0:00:29.205 --> 0:00:33.365 spite all the odds, absolutely destined to be. I certainly 0:00:33.405 --> 0:00:36.285 hope the majority of those demons that plagued me earlier 0:00:36.325 --> 0:00:37.845 on are put to rest. 0:00:46.285 --> 0:00:49.525 Waiting for a pregnancy test result can bring on a 0:00:49.565 --> 0:00:58.205 whirlwind of emotions excitement, anxiety, anticipation, dread. But for Madeline West, 0:00:59.085 --> 0:01:03.525 seeing a positive test at forty seven wasn't just surprising, 0:01:04.005 --> 0:01:09.725 it was completely and utterly shocking, because at first she 0:01:09.805 --> 0:01:13.125 thought that she was in perimenopause. She even asked her 0:01:13.165 --> 0:01:16.365 doctor if a positive pregnancy test could be a symptom, 0:01:16.925 --> 0:01:20.925 but no, she was in fact expecting her seventh child, 0:01:21.325 --> 0:01:23.925 and when we spoke, she was just two weeks away 0:01:24.045 --> 0:01:29.605 from giving birth. In this conversation, Madeleine is the epitome 0:01:29.765 --> 0:01:36.125 of no filter. Unflinchingly honest and deeply reflective. She shares 0:01:36.165 --> 0:01:39.485 how she's really feeling, how the media expects her to 0:01:39.565 --> 0:01:45.125 feel about the poetically named geriatric pregnancy and why she's 0:01:45.245 --> 0:01:49.205 choosing to embrace this unexpected twist in her story. But 0:01:49.365 --> 0:01:53.405 more than that, Madeline West opens up about something far 0:01:53.485 --> 0:01:58.965 more profound, her experience of childhood's sexual abuse, a secret 0:01:59.045 --> 0:02:03.325 she had hidden from the world and from herself for 0:02:03.365 --> 0:02:07.125 almost forty years. She speaks about the moment she knew 0:02:07.165 --> 0:02:10.965 she was ready to confront her abuser, and the valiance 0:02:11.205 --> 0:02:14.925 that it took to bring him to justice. Now, as 0:02:14.965 --> 0:02:19.525 she prepares to welcome another baby, Madeleine describes her life 0:02:19.565 --> 0:02:24.405 as a jigsaw puzzle, one that's been scattered, rebuilt, and 0:02:24.485 --> 0:02:29.285 reshaped over time, and after years of healing and self discovery, 0:02:30.165 --> 0:02:34.805 she finally feels like the last piece is falling into place. 0:02:35.205 --> 0:02:37.965 But before we get there, I just want to let 0:02:38.045 --> 0:02:43.845 you know that this conversation through necessity does include very 0:02:43.885 --> 0:02:48.645 candid discussion of the abuse that Madeleine survived. So please 0:02:48.725 --> 0:02:55.445 this and mindfully, and here is Madeline West, Madeline West, 0:02:56.245 --> 0:03:02.165 beautiful of face, extraordinary of soul. We will get to 0:03:02.205 --> 0:03:05.125 that later. Welcome to no filth. 0:03:05.205 --> 0:03:06.845 I feel like, on the basis of that welcome, I 0:03:06.925 --> 0:03:08.605 wish I was in the room with you. I've even 0:03:08.605 --> 0:03:11.525 brought I've brought snacks, with me, because you just can't 0:03:11.525 --> 0:03:14.005 come between a pregnant woman and a snack. So I 0:03:14.045 --> 0:03:15.525 wish I was in the room. 0:03:15.565 --> 0:03:23.965 Whist Kate, Well, so you are pregnant, the duff well, 0:03:24.005 --> 0:03:26.685 and truly you really are barn in the oven all 0:03:26.765 --> 0:03:33.725 of that. This needs a drum roll. Seventh child, you 0:03:33.765 --> 0:03:34.765 are forty five. 0:03:34.925 --> 0:03:36.005 No, I'm forty seven. 0:03:36.765 --> 0:03:43.525 Oh you're forty seven. It's are you laughing? 0:03:43.525 --> 0:03:45.205 Because it's just getting worse. O. 0:03:45.725 --> 0:03:49.005 B Well, it's just I actually, I actually love it. 0:03:49.245 --> 0:03:53.205 I love it. I'm happy it's not me. I'm thrilled. 0:03:53.965 --> 0:03:55.005 I'm thrilled. 0:03:55.365 --> 0:03:58.205 It's so funny to say that, Kate. All my girlfriends 0:03:58.205 --> 0:04:02.005 are saying the same thing. They're like, I can't wait 0:04:02.045 --> 0:04:04.645 to hold a baby, just don't want to carry one 0:04:05.605 --> 0:04:08.085 in one undercarriage, which is right now. 0:04:08.685 --> 0:04:11.485 All right. So I've just made a mistake that I 0:04:11.485 --> 0:04:23.405 imagine is happening a lot. The first thing when someone's pregnant. Congratulations, congratulations, Madeline, congratulations. 0:04:23.765 --> 0:04:29.885 But because it's so extraordinary, is that getting a little 0:04:29.925 --> 0:04:35.525 bit lost in the mix, in the mix of the astonished, 0:04:35.765 --> 0:04:37.725 or that the first reaction is always shocked. 0:04:38.925 --> 0:04:43.285 My first reaction was shocked, and disbelief, so I certainly 0:04:43.365 --> 0:04:46.085 can't judge anyone else for having a similar reaction to it. 0:04:46.845 --> 0:04:50.045 But what I will say, and what I have discovered, 0:04:50.325 --> 0:04:56.765 is that I am far from alone. Statistically, teen pregnancies 0:04:56.845 --> 0:05:01.765 are on a sharp decline. Pregnancies in their forties are 0:05:01.805 --> 0:05:05.845 on the rise, and particularly over forty four, which is 0:05:05.925 --> 0:05:10.165 quite surprising. It's quadrupled in the last twenty years. How 0:05:10.165 --> 0:05:13.245 many women in their latter forties are now going on 0:05:13.325 --> 0:05:18.725 to have babies, So I understand that there is it's 0:05:18.725 --> 0:05:22.685 certainly not helped by the geriatric pregnancy label that you 0:05:22.725 --> 0:05:26.005 get slapped with from thirty five. I'm like, should I 0:05:26.125 --> 0:05:28.125 should I go babies fun thingson buy a pram or 0:05:28.165 --> 0:05:30.285 should I go and get a zimmer Frame. I'm not 0:05:30.365 --> 0:05:31.245 quite sure. 0:05:31.885 --> 0:05:33.245 They should do doubles in mission. 0:05:33.285 --> 0:05:36.445 I think they should just little package, our geriatric package. 0:05:36.965 --> 0:05:39.765 But what I have discovered, and I was very slow 0:05:40.365 --> 0:05:45.605 to I really didn't want to initially air where I 0:05:45.725 --> 0:05:47.645 was and what was happening in my life. I've become 0:05:47.685 --> 0:05:51.565 increasingly private as I've gotten older, and and You've moved 0:05:51.565 --> 0:05:55.405 to Bayn and I moved to Byron, and it was 0:05:56.205 --> 0:05:59.325 my hand was kind of forced because I was informed 0:05:59.365 --> 0:06:02.845 by a media agency that there was awareness that I 0:06:02.965 --> 0:06:06.285 was pregnant. And that came about not because I'd rocked 0:06:06.365 --> 0:06:09.925 up to Melbourne Fashion Week or something in alycrate Frock. 0:06:10.005 --> 0:06:12.365 It was because I was actually presenting at Parliament and 0:06:12.405 --> 0:06:17.205 trying to push through legislation to amp up protections around 0:06:17.485 --> 0:06:20.245 child's safety, and I was just spotted by a journalist 0:06:20.325 --> 0:06:22.245 who of course went back to the office told everyone. 0:06:22.285 --> 0:06:25.405 They told everyone they knew. I found out that I 0:06:25.445 --> 0:06:28.445 was being followed by peraps trying to get that first photo. 0:06:28.525 --> 0:06:30.845 So I thought, well, I'm gonna, as much as I 0:06:30.885 --> 0:06:32.965 don't want to, I'm going to speak out about this 0:06:33.165 --> 0:06:37.285 on my terms. And the most wonderful flow on effect 0:06:37.405 --> 0:06:41.045 of that was I had over a thousand responses from 0:06:41.365 --> 0:06:45.285 other women who had or were having babies in their 0:06:45.285 --> 0:06:47.605 forties saying I thought I was the only one. I 0:06:47.645 --> 0:06:49.245 thought I was the only one who was going to 0:06:49.285 --> 0:06:51.605 rock up to play group and everyone would think I 0:06:51.685 --> 0:06:54.165 was grandma. I thought I was the only one who 0:06:54.205 --> 0:06:57.005 at first day of school i'd be mingling with mothers 0:06:57.005 --> 0:07:00.205 and fathers who were half my age. But quite the 0:07:00.245 --> 0:07:04.365 reverse is true, so it's really I'm actually quite gratified 0:07:04.565 --> 0:07:09.245 to have illuminated or shown a spotlight on this particular 0:07:09.525 --> 0:07:13.885 group of men and women who are delving into parenting 0:07:14.245 --> 0:07:16.805 later in life and thought that they were alone. 0:07:17.405 --> 0:07:19.965 And also I find it kind of hopeful because the 0:07:19.965 --> 0:07:24.045 one thing that we know about nature is that nature 0:07:24.085 --> 0:07:27.645 can be cruel, particularly when it comes to issues of fertility. 0:07:27.725 --> 0:07:29.885 Yes, it most definitely can. 0:07:30.165 --> 0:07:34.405 And you thought that you were perimenopausal, and you thought 0:07:34.405 --> 0:07:36.285 that's why you were having these strange cycles. 0:07:36.285 --> 0:07:39.765 See as soon as like that, oh hang on, my 0:07:39.885 --> 0:07:43.845 monthly's disappeared. Oh wow, I must have just hot footed 0:07:43.845 --> 0:07:46.605 it right through the perimenopause phase and I've gone straight 0:07:46.605 --> 0:07:50.805 into menopause. But then I got a couple of other 0:07:50.885 --> 0:07:55.085 symptoms that I recognized but did not quite fit with 0:07:55.245 --> 0:08:00.005 the narrative around menopause, which thankfully is finally getting so 0:08:00.165 --> 0:08:05.005 much traction in the media and just amongst society itself. 0:08:05.045 --> 0:08:10.165 We're finally having meaningful conversations about perimenopause and menopause. But 0:08:10.285 --> 0:08:13.685 my symptoms didn't quite correlate with any of that. I 0:08:13.765 --> 0:08:18.245 wasn't getting hot flushes. I was certainly rageful, But I'm 0:08:18.285 --> 0:08:20.485 a mum of six, and of course I'm rageful. When 0:08:20.485 --> 0:08:24.925 am I not rageful? I did the little I just thought, 0:08:24.965 --> 0:08:28.565 you know, oh, let's just let's just get this out 0:08:28.605 --> 0:08:30.165 of the way, and let's just do a little weir 0:08:30.245 --> 0:08:33.045 on a stick, and two lines popped up, And I'll 0:08:33.085 --> 0:08:37.245 be honest with you, Kate. My first thought was, maybe 0:08:37.325 --> 0:08:39.525 this is a symptom of many pause that no one's 0:08:39.565 --> 0:08:42.245 heard about you. Maybe because all your hormones are going 0:08:42.285 --> 0:08:44.645 all over them, maybe this is what happens. So I 0:08:44.805 --> 0:08:46.525 had a little check up with the doctor and he said, no, 0:08:46.805 --> 0:08:51.605 you are most definitely geriatrically up the dust and here 0:08:51.645 --> 0:08:51.965 we are. 0:08:52.965 --> 0:08:56.925 Okay. So because you now live in Byron, so this 0:08:56.965 --> 0:08:58.885 would not have been the same doctor that you had 0:08:58.925 --> 0:09:00.645 through your other six pregnancies. 0:09:00.845 --> 0:09:04.285 Or are you are the tweens that I came went 0:09:04.325 --> 0:09:07.325 and saw had a room full of dream catches and 0:09:07.365 --> 0:09:12.605 healing crystals and well, I'm decrying me a good hard staging. 0:09:13.085 --> 0:09:17.965 No, but you have to explain yourself to a new ishtock. 0:09:18.005 --> 0:09:19.805 Yes, you have to go through everything. And and I am 0:09:19.845 --> 0:09:24.005 someone who prides myself on keeping really healthy both mentally 0:09:24.085 --> 0:09:28.405 and physically. That's become a priority for me, particularly in 0:09:28.405 --> 0:09:31.005 the last five years because I've gone through quite a 0:09:31.045 --> 0:09:35.645 few things, so that became an absolute priority to shore 0:09:35.725 --> 0:09:39.045 up my physical and mental health, and that is what 0:09:39.085 --> 0:09:42.925 I have been doing. So I'm not a frequent visitor 0:09:42.965 --> 0:09:44.125 to a doctor's office, but I did. 0:09:44.205 --> 0:09:44.405 Yes. 0:09:44.405 --> 0:09:46.685 I found I have got a lovely GP who went 0:09:46.725 --> 0:09:50.205 and saw and his eyebrows went through the roof when 0:09:50.565 --> 0:09:54.245 we got the positive result as well. But again he 0:09:54.405 --> 0:09:58.965 reiterated that as much as this is inverted comma's higher risk, 0:09:59.645 --> 0:10:04.085 it's also not uncommon. And that's what I discovered when 0:10:04.125 --> 0:10:07.325 I opened up finally and starting having conversations with my 0:10:07.445 --> 0:10:10.685 core beautiful group of friends, that many of them had 0:10:10.685 --> 0:10:15.365 found myselves themselves in my shoes and had either decided 0:10:15.405 --> 0:10:20.045 to proceed or not proceed. But this was not completely 0:10:20.325 --> 0:10:21.565 I wasn't an anomaly. 0:10:22.245 --> 0:10:25.725 Well, I also had babies in my fings and I 0:10:25.765 --> 0:10:29.485 also had caesareans, and I know when I had to 0:10:29.485 --> 0:10:31.925 go back to the doctor the fourth time that I 0:10:32.005 --> 0:10:36.565 was accidentally pregnant. I love that these are two grown 0:10:36.645 --> 0:10:40.285 up we have Actually it's a great title for a book, accidentally, 0:10:42.365 --> 0:10:46.285 But they were like, they don't like to do caesareans 0:10:46.325 --> 0:10:51.285 past three cesareans. I was going for four you're presumably 0:10:51.365 --> 0:10:54.765 going to have. Yes, so I won't let you go natural, now, 0:10:54.805 --> 0:10:55.045 will that? 0:10:55.205 --> 0:10:59.085 No? No? No, those have an American Emergency Caesar because I'm 0:10:59.125 --> 0:11:03.045 quite small and my babies are generally quite big, so. 0:11:03.165 --> 0:11:06.485 Bigger than bigger than you would like exactly. 0:11:06.965 --> 0:11:10.245 I do have a really lovely doctor who is allowing 0:11:10.325 --> 0:11:14.765 me to go into labor. Yes, which is lovely because 0:11:14.805 --> 0:11:17.845 it means that some of those issues that little ones 0:11:17.885 --> 0:11:21.005 face when they are born by a cesarean section. That 0:11:21.005 --> 0:11:24.485 could be some issues with lungs and issues with the 0:11:24.485 --> 0:11:27.965 milk coming in. Sorry, too much information, but we're going 0:11:27.965 --> 0:11:31.685 down that path. So let's deep dive deep obviated. 0:11:31.805 --> 0:11:36.325 It's no filter. Oh, that's right, said, it's no filtered. 0:11:36.365 --> 0:11:39.685 I've got a wonderful obstetrician who will let me go 0:11:39.725 --> 0:11:42.805 into labor and then we'll pop in and zip a 0:11:42.805 --> 0:11:43.805 little one out. 0:11:44.205 --> 0:11:47.525 Okay. So when you've seen your doctor, yep, you get 0:11:47.565 --> 0:11:49.965 the news that you are pregnant. 0:11:50.085 --> 0:11:50.325 Yes. 0:11:50.365 --> 0:11:52.085 How long ago was this? By the way, how deep 0:11:52.125 --> 0:11:52.885 are you in? 0:11:53.365 --> 0:11:57.285 I've got about two and a half weeks al yes, 0:11:57.765 --> 0:12:01.925 And this is officially the last thing I'm going to 0:12:02.005 --> 0:12:05.445 do that requires my brain to function. I've just sat 0:12:05.525 --> 0:12:07.085 like I drew a line in the sand. I said, 0:12:07.085 --> 0:12:08.525 I'm going to have my chat to Kate and I'm 0:12:08.525 --> 0:12:09.805 doing nothing else. 0:12:10.685 --> 0:12:14.045 So when you get that news, who is the first 0:12:14.165 --> 0:12:15.325 person that you take? 0:12:15.445 --> 0:12:15.525 Um? 0:12:17.125 --> 0:12:17.285 Right? 0:12:18.685 --> 0:12:18.805 What? 0:12:19.285 --> 0:12:20.125 And where is mask? 0:12:20.205 --> 0:12:23.005 So Mum's down in Victoria, so she's a little bit 0:12:23.045 --> 0:12:24.845 of a distance and she's actually going to be my 0:12:24.925 --> 0:12:28.605 birth partner, in which I love. I think that's a 0:12:28.805 --> 0:12:35.045 very strong, almost tribal connection. Yes, and this is I'm 0:12:35.045 --> 0:12:37.805 going on a tight segue, So please hold that question 0:12:38.445 --> 0:12:40.445 in your head, Cake, because I know I'll go off 0:12:40.485 --> 0:12:42.845 on a tangent and I'll completely forget, forget what we're 0:12:42.885 --> 0:12:46.605 talking about. But I've just read the most amazing book 0:12:47.045 --> 0:12:50.685 called Eve by Cat Bohannon. I'd recommend it to anyone 0:12:50.725 --> 0:12:54.805 to read, and it explains how the female body has 0:12:54.925 --> 0:12:58.325 driven evolution for the last two hundred million years, and 0:12:58.365 --> 0:13:02.885 it gives the most precise scientific explanation for why we 0:13:03.005 --> 0:13:07.725 enter menopause. We, apart from killer whales, are the only 0:13:07.805 --> 0:13:11.245 creatures on the planet that experience menopause, and men certainly 0:13:11.285 --> 0:13:14.405 don't experience it, so it's specific to the female body. 0:13:14.805 --> 0:13:19.605 And it was a precise choice that we biologically, genealogically 0:13:19.685 --> 0:13:23.085 made in our history of evolution as we branched off 0:13:23.205 --> 0:13:27.525 from some of our primate predecessors to experience menopause so 0:13:27.565 --> 0:13:29.525 that women could lead. 0:13:30.485 --> 0:13:33.645 And in part the wisdom is this week because I 0:13:33.685 --> 0:13:35.645 have heard this, but I didn't know that was the genes. 0:13:35.965 --> 0:13:40.045 And it's absolutely brilliant, and it's been been quantified by 0:13:40.165 --> 0:13:45.045 numerous scientific studies that demonstrate that, like killer whales, we 0:13:45.165 --> 0:13:47.565 are the ones who say, this is what you do 0:13:47.645 --> 0:13:50.285 in a drought, this is what you do in a famine. 0:13:50.405 --> 0:13:53.645 You need to blanch those vegetables to get the toxins out. 0:13:54.045 --> 0:13:59.725 And mothers are designed to birth their grandchildren. They've got 0:13:59.765 --> 0:14:03.165 this wealth of knowledge. And Western society is very good 0:14:03.205 --> 0:14:08.045 at dismissing how elderly as yes, somehow a little bit 0:14:08.085 --> 0:14:08.925 decrepit us. 0:14:09.365 --> 0:14:13.085 Actually we're out there in the. 0:14:12.885 --> 0:14:15.965 Field now, just let them go and graze. But the 0:14:16.485 --> 0:14:21.405 sheer wealth of instinctive knowledge that our older generations of 0:14:21.485 --> 0:14:27.605 women have is mind boggling. So it feels very symbolic 0:14:27.725 --> 0:14:31.205 and very right that it is my mum there who 0:14:31.245 --> 0:14:32.485 will bring this new little one. 0:14:32.885 --> 0:14:35.765 What did she say? What did she say when you 0:14:36.205 --> 0:14:42.925 told her you were on the phone, she dissuming, Oh. 0:14:41.405 --> 0:14:44.245 And this is a very frequent response I've gotten it's 0:14:44.365 --> 0:14:45.725 just going to be so hard. 0:14:47.005 --> 0:14:50.165 And I paused, so she forgot to say congratulations exactly. 0:14:51.245 --> 0:14:54.045 And then of course it warms up to congratulations, and 0:14:54.085 --> 0:14:55.885 over the weeks and the days and the weeks and 0:14:55.925 --> 0:14:59.485 the months that follows, it becomes overwhelmingly positive the response. 0:14:59.925 --> 0:15:01.805 But her first concern is it's going to be so 0:15:02.125 --> 0:15:05.925 hard because you've already got so much going on. And 0:15:06.605 --> 0:15:09.405 I stepped back for a moment and went, well, I 0:15:09.325 --> 0:15:15.125 I think as I've grown older and hopefully wiser, I've 0:15:15.125 --> 0:15:20.485 come to choose my heart because life is hard. Everything 0:15:20.525 --> 0:15:23.325 about life is hard. We've got all got so many 0:15:23.405 --> 0:15:27.885 pressures on our shoulders. And yes, there's so many things 0:15:28.005 --> 0:15:31.245 I want to do with my life, but I don't 0:15:31.365 --> 0:15:34.565 for a moment believe the presence of this precious little 0:15:34.605 --> 0:15:37.205 miracle in my life is going to stop me doing 0:15:37.245 --> 0:15:39.885 what I want to do. If anything, it's going to 0:15:39.925 --> 0:15:42.165 push me harder to do what I want to do, 0:15:42.725 --> 0:15:45.445 to make the world a better place, a safer place. 0:15:50.765 --> 0:15:54.125 Coming up after the break, I asked Madeline how she 0:15:54.285 --> 0:15:58.045 processed the news of her pregnancy at forty seven years old, 0:15:58.765 --> 0:16:06.165 and whether she considered all the possible options stay with us. 0:16:09.165 --> 0:16:14.045 Was there a moment where you thought maybe I won't 0:16:14.085 --> 0:16:14.925 proceed with this. 0:16:16.525 --> 0:16:22.565 No, No, because initially I thought it was menopause. I 0:16:22.605 --> 0:16:24.325 found out a little bit later that most do. 0:16:25.285 --> 0:16:27.005 And my. 0:16:28.925 --> 0:16:33.925 Body knows this is number seven precisely where that little 0:16:33.965 --> 0:16:39.525 cluster of cells is at every stage and from I 0:16:39.605 --> 0:16:44.685 am all for everyone having everyone and everyone having choice 0:16:45.405 --> 0:16:51.925 and facilities to exercise that choice. But for me, this 0:16:52.045 --> 0:16:56.285 was a little This was a little human being who 0:16:56.365 --> 0:17:00.445 was going to change the world from the moment that 0:17:00.485 --> 0:17:04.725 I found out that I was pregnant, and that has 0:17:04.765 --> 0:17:05.445 not changed. 0:17:06.285 --> 0:17:11.925 You know, you said life is hard, and I know 0:17:11.965 --> 0:17:14.445 a lot of people say that as epithets. You know, 0:17:14.925 --> 0:17:17.925 politicians love to talk about people doing it tough, as 0:17:17.925 --> 0:17:19.525 though they've had nothing to do with the fact that 0:17:19.525 --> 0:17:20.565 people do at that class. 0:17:20.605 --> 0:17:21.765 But do you know what I mean, I can't quite 0:17:21.925 --> 0:17:22.845 join the dots. 0:17:23.485 --> 0:17:28.165 Yeah, exactly right. But when you say life is hard, 0:17:29.005 --> 0:17:34.365 you have a much more acute understanding of that than 0:17:34.485 --> 0:17:35.405 most people. 0:17:35.605 --> 0:17:39.565 I do now because I can, I can actually look 0:17:39.605 --> 0:17:45.125 back retrospectively as some of the things that I've experienced which, 0:17:45.165 --> 0:17:49.045 to be honest, I for most of my life wasn't 0:17:49.525 --> 0:17:52.525 prepared to do. I spent most of my life putting 0:17:52.645 --> 0:17:58.085 masks on, pretending to be anyone other than myself because 0:17:58.125 --> 0:18:01.725 I so despised myself, and that self that I despised 0:18:02.405 --> 0:18:06.245 originated from a tiny little girl who had horrible things 0:18:06.285 --> 0:18:10.725 happened to her that she absolutely was not to blame for. 0:18:11.725 --> 0:18:13.925 That little girl was Melanie that was used. 0:18:14.525 --> 0:18:19.285 See there you go. I even changed my name to 0:18:19.445 --> 0:18:22.845 run as hard and fast away from her as I could. 0:18:24.085 --> 0:18:27.165 So so much of my life has been wrapped up 0:18:27.365 --> 0:18:32.885 in ignoring the bad things that happened. But and I 0:18:32.925 --> 0:18:35.725 can speak from experience now because I've done all of 0:18:35.765 --> 0:18:38.805 my training to become something of a trauma expert and 0:18:38.925 --> 0:18:43.125 exploitation expert. So I work very closely with children. I 0:18:43.165 --> 0:18:45.125 work in schools and educate them how to be safe 0:18:45.165 --> 0:18:48.245 online just in life in general. And I also work 0:18:48.285 --> 0:18:53.245 with a lot of historical victims who want to just 0:18:53.525 --> 0:18:56.485 be empowered enough to say the words that this happened 0:18:56.485 --> 0:18:58.405 to me and it was not my fault, and that 0:18:58.485 --> 0:19:02.285 might result in them pursuing criminal or some kind of 0:19:02.445 --> 0:19:06.165 civil remediation. But now I can spot all the red flags, 0:19:06.165 --> 0:19:08.565 and I can spot all the triggers when someone has 0:19:08.565 --> 0:19:12.005 had that experience. I spent my life trying to keep 0:19:12.005 --> 0:19:16.405 that under wraps, which is why acting was a perfect profession. 0:19:16.445 --> 0:19:20.925 Donning the mantle of somebody else. I'm someone else because 0:19:21.365 --> 0:19:24.325 you couldn't bear to be yourself, Sackler. 0:19:24.365 --> 0:19:27.645 I couldn't bear to be Melanie because she'd been told 0:19:27.685 --> 0:19:30.925 for so long that she was to blame for everything 0:19:30.965 --> 0:19:31.845 that had happened to her. 0:19:32.605 --> 0:19:35.565 Now to get our listeners up to speed, who may 0:19:35.605 --> 0:19:40.845 not know this, and this is just an event of 0:19:40.885 --> 0:19:47.325 such cataclysmic proportions to happen in anybody's life that I 0:19:47.365 --> 0:19:52.605 can't believe this is not a story known to everybody. 0:19:53.165 --> 0:19:56.045 I was certainly not familiar as familiar with it. We've 0:19:56.125 --> 0:19:57.565 kind of had been background noised. 0:19:57.645 --> 0:20:01.645 But that's I think you've described it so well that 0:20:01.725 --> 0:20:05.885 this is a cataclysmic event, yet it's experienced by one 0:20:05.925 --> 0:20:10.325 in three girls and one in five boys, and that's 0:20:10.405 --> 0:20:13.525 just the reported cases. So just to qualify for anyone 0:20:13.525 --> 0:20:17.085 who's listening and not familiar with my backstory, and I'm 0:20:17.205 --> 0:20:18.525 so glad to be at a point in my life 0:20:18.525 --> 0:20:20.685 where I'm stepping away from being the poster child of 0:20:20.725 --> 0:20:25.525 trauma and achieving something beautiful and wonderful in the aftermath. 0:20:26.085 --> 0:20:29.685 I was the victim of a pedophile from the ages 0:20:29.725 --> 0:20:34.845 of four to eleven, and it was quite horrific what 0:20:34.965 --> 0:20:37.525 he did. It was your neighbor, Yes, it was my 0:20:37.565 --> 0:20:40.725 next door neighbor. And I was not alone. I was 0:20:40.765 --> 0:20:47.325 not the only victim. And after many years of working 0:20:47.365 --> 0:20:51.205 with therapists, with the police, with the federal police, in 0:20:51.285 --> 0:20:54.885 December of twenty twenty four, we put him away in 0:20:54.925 --> 0:20:58.485 prison for fifteen years. So he's now accountable. 0:20:58.965 --> 0:21:02.165 Peter Vincent wife his name was Yes, So in your 0:21:02.245 --> 0:21:06.885 little seemingly idyllic town of Voudeine that you grew up in, 0:21:06.925 --> 0:21:08.765 this charming, you. 0:21:08.725 --> 0:21:13.725 Know, little town, almost village, tiny, little bucolic, beautiful village 0:21:13.885 --> 0:21:18.605 type town. And he chose the precisely perfect location, which 0:21:18.685 --> 0:21:24.885 was an area peopled predominantly by low socioeconomic young families 0:21:25.645 --> 0:21:31.645 with little kids. And his house was the most magnificent 0:21:31.685 --> 0:21:34.885 house in the neighborhood with all the bits and pieces 0:21:34.925 --> 0:21:40.365 that would attract children, and his wife was a frequent 0:21:40.445 --> 0:21:44.565 babysitter for the neighborhood, so children were drawn to that 0:21:44.725 --> 0:21:49.365 area and he was precisely the epitome of the rock 0:21:49.405 --> 0:21:54.365 spider who, hidden in plain SIGHTE was able to access. 0:21:54.005 --> 0:21:56.685 Young children trusted and adored by the name. 0:21:56.765 --> 0:21:59.765 Absolutely, you know so many and so many people have said, 0:21:59.765 --> 0:22:01.725 how did they not know? How did they not know? 0:22:02.445 --> 0:22:06.565 And that's the cliche. Hidden in plain site, he was 0:22:06.685 --> 0:22:11.245 right there, and no one would dream. This wonderful, generous 0:22:11.285 --> 0:22:14.125 person who held fabulous parties and invited everyone in the 0:22:14.125 --> 0:22:17.645 neighborhood who'd pop over, and he was a plumber by trade, 0:22:17.805 --> 0:22:21.445 would fix your block toilet without batting an eye, was 0:22:21.645 --> 0:22:28.365 using public, that very positive public facade to hide the 0:22:28.445 --> 0:22:32.125 most horrific and as she said before, heinous, cataclysmic crime. 0:22:32.965 --> 0:22:36.205 You can imagine, and it still bewilders me. But the reason, 0:22:36.245 --> 0:22:38.685 as you said, you know, you can't believe that people 0:22:38.725 --> 0:22:41.605 haven't heard about it, is precisely because people don't talk 0:22:41.645 --> 0:22:47.205 about it. Our society fosters a conspiracy of silence around this, and. 0:22:47.085 --> 0:22:50.565 A lot of that is motivated by fear. 0:22:50.565 --> 0:22:55.765 Absolutely and also shame that we don't attach, we really 0:22:55.805 --> 0:23:00.005 don't appropriately attach a victim or survivor label to those 0:23:00.045 --> 0:23:05.725 who've experienced that they are seen as deficit, as broken 0:23:06.125 --> 0:23:10.405 and as somehow complicit. There's still some degree of question, 0:23:11.005 --> 0:23:13.845 what we're wearing, what we're you're doing. Well, you must 0:23:13.885 --> 0:23:15.525 have brought it on, You must have led him on. 0:23:15.645 --> 0:23:18.565 How the hell does a five year old lead on 0:23:18.605 --> 0:23:19.685 a forty year old man? 0:23:21.245 --> 0:23:21.605 How? 0:23:22.205 --> 0:23:26.525 And yet that seems to be the narrative we attached 0:23:26.565 --> 0:23:28.605 to this crime. And that is why, to this day, 0:23:28.765 --> 0:23:32.445 this crime which has one of the highest ratios of 0:23:32.525 --> 0:23:36.325 victim per capita in our society, the highest ratio of 0:23:36.365 --> 0:23:42.285 recidivus behavior by the perpetrators, yet the lowest sentencing, and 0:23:42.325 --> 0:23:45.525 the majority of cases a perpetrator might get a slap 0:23:45.565 --> 0:23:49.405 on a wrist or a community service order. Yet commit 0:23:49.485 --> 0:23:51.245 tax fraud and you'll get ten years in prison. 0:23:52.485 --> 0:23:56.525 What was the point in your life at which you, 0:23:58.885 --> 0:24:01.645 in the service of that little girl that you carried 0:24:01.645 --> 0:24:04.925 around with you, that you decided to go to the 0:24:04.965 --> 0:24:09.085 police and say, this is what happened to me. What 0:24:09.525 --> 0:24:11.085 is the process for you? 0:24:11.085 --> 0:24:13.245 You reach a point in your life where the white 0:24:13.365 --> 0:24:18.045 noise of what happened to you is so loud you 0:24:18.085 --> 0:24:24.285 can't function anymore, where memories start to resurface and you 0:24:24.325 --> 0:24:28.045 can't tuck them away or push them down anymore. And 0:24:29.365 --> 0:24:34.845 I was on the cusp of a separation and questioning 0:24:35.365 --> 0:24:39.365 so many things in my life. And what tip me 0:24:39.445 --> 0:24:44.285 over was learning that he had grandchildren. And that was 0:24:44.325 --> 0:24:47.845 when I went it stops with me, because I don't 0:24:47.845 --> 0:24:50.205 care what anyone says. If you've experienced this, it will 0:24:50.245 --> 0:24:52.325 manifest in your life in some way. 0:24:52.885 --> 0:24:53.645 Of course, it. 0:24:53.605 --> 0:24:56.405 Might be that you become an alcoholic, you have drug addiction, 0:24:56.525 --> 0:24:58.925 you might dabble in petty crime. You might not be 0:24:58.965 --> 0:25:01.645 able to function socially. You might not be able to 0:25:01.685 --> 0:25:04.325