Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mama and Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and
Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3: I think she's read let them. I reckon she read
Speaker 3: her over the holidays, because I know that Oprah, who
Speaker 3: I believe you know they're in a group. Chap Sure,
Speaker 3: Oprah read it. Oprah loved it. I think she said Michelle,
Speaker 3: not passive aggressively, but just said, I think you'd get
Speaker 3: a lot out of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let them have their party.
Speaker 3: Yes, let them have their party, but let me not.
Speaker 2: Come hello and welcome to Mom and Mia out loud.
Speaker 2: It's what women are actually talking about. On Monday, the
Speaker 2: twentieth of January.
Speaker 1: I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm Mea Friedman.
Speaker 3: And I'm Jesse Stevens, and we are in a new
Speaker 3: studio today. We are making the pivot to video.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It makes her sound really up with the times.
Speaker 1: And I just keep shouting, change is exciting.
Speaker 3: She does because you know that Holly and I and
Speaker 3: Nately resist change. We're not sure about it, but we
Speaker 3: are in a new studio. We've got like a fancy
Speaker 3: backdrop and everything.
Speaker 1: This isn't actually going to be our final home. This
Speaker 1: is our temporary studio while we build a new studio
Speaker 1: for ourselves. We're actually borrowing in studio to sort of
Speaker 1: get ready to go into our newstube.
Speaker 2: It's really cool where we are. It's got like hand
Speaker 2: and chairs, it's got like that.
Speaker 3: The office fancy. So I'm going to make a complaint.
Speaker 1: We fit right in anyway, There are some men around two.
Speaker 3: There are also I should note if you follow us
Speaker 3: on Instagram, if you don't, should our videos are going
Speaker 3: to look slightly different. So give us your feedback. We
Speaker 3: don't need to ask for it. They'll give it to us. Oh,
Speaker 3: let us know what they think.
Speaker 1: Indeed, they'll tell us.
Speaker 2: Anyway, It's a massive news week this week, with a
Speaker 2: tentative ceasefire coming into effecting Gaza Trump's inauguration in the
Speaker 2: early hours of tomorrow morning, and as we're about to
Speaker 2: jump into on today's show, many TikTok creators melting down
Speaker 2: about what's going on with their platform in the US.
Speaker 2: So is the TikTok band still in place? Might it
Speaker 2: come here? And why does it matter? Also, I'm not
Speaker 2: the only one having a year of nupe. Michelle Obama
Speaker 2: has rejected her invite to the Trump Party, and we
Speaker 2: think it's big. Letson Energy and Vanity Fair ran a
Speaker 2: full blown cover story about Megan and Harry, along with
Speaker 2: an eight thousand word piece We read it so you
Speaker 2: don't have to let's go.
Speaker 4: We want to hop on here and say goodbye to
Speaker 4: all fourteen million of you guys.
Speaker 5: It's just an app, but it's our whole life.
Speaker 1: No, because anyone else just been crying on this app
Speaker 1: all mate, because it feels like we're losing like community.
Speaker 3: It's just like, why would they take this app from
Speaker 3: the girls? Like if you wanted to take it, take
Speaker 3: it from the boys, not the girls.
Speaker 4: Not the girls.
Speaker 3: I cannot stop crying.
Speaker 2: It's emotional and it's sad.
Speaker 1: I feel so sad. I wonder how you actually would
Speaker 1: go about taking it away from just the boys. I
Speaker 1: quite like that idea. It's a possible solution.
Speaker 3: Late on Saturday, US time, TikTok users in a America
Speaker 3: found their app had stopped working. This was a few
Speaker 3: hours before a federal ban on the app was due
Speaker 3: to take effect. So when they opened TikTok, as some
Speaker 3: of them do every two to three minutes, they were
Speaker 3: presented with the following message, Sorry, TikTok is an available
Speaker 3: right now. A law banning TikTok has been enacted in
Speaker 3: the US. Unfortunately, this means you can't use TikTok for now.
Speaker 3: We are fortunate that President Trump has indicated that he
Speaker 3: will work with us on a solution to reinstate TikTok
Speaker 3: once he takes office. Please stay tuned because you wouldn't
Speaker 3: want TikTok to be full of propaganda.
Speaker 1: Would you.
Speaker 2: No, not at all exactly.
Speaker 3: Let's take forty five steps backwards because for years, lawmakers
Speaker 3: in Congress in the US have been worried about TikTok's
Speaker 3: Chinese ownership. This is for a lot of reasons. TikTok
Speaker 3: is owned by the Chinese company Byteedance, and US officials
Speaker 3: are worried that Chinese laws China is of course run
Speaker 3: by the Chinese Communist Party, could compel them to share
Speaker 3: information about their users sensitive data. They could monitor users,
Speaker 3: They could influence public opinion or elections. It could be
Speaker 3: used to gather intelligence on US citizens. So Jessee is.
Speaker 1: The heart of this that because China is a communist country,
Speaker 1: yep that Bite Downs is essentially controlled by the Chinese government.
Speaker 1: Is that the subtext.
Speaker 3: Correct and that we know that TikTok in terms of
Speaker 3: their settings, they can get details about your location, your
Speaker 3: browsing history. That's one element of it. The other element
Speaker 3: of it is if it is run by the Chinese
Speaker 3: Communist Party, then how about things like propaganda spreading misinformation?
Speaker 3: They have control in that way, which the US has
Speaker 3: been really really apprehensive about.
Speaker 1: And the TikTok algorithm is widely acknowledged as a whole
Speaker 1: other level from every other social media algorithm. So nobody
Speaker 1: knows exactly how that works, and that is proprietary information
Speaker 1: that a lot of people would like to get their
Speaker 1: hands on.
Speaker 3: Holders have said youth, mental health, economic concerns. Obviously, this
Speaker 3: isn't a US owned company, so that worries them as well.
Speaker 3: Whereas Twitter, a US owned blocking TikTok, we should also
Speaker 3: say it wasn't going to be unprecedented. India has blocked
Speaker 3: the app, as has Pakistan, and interestingly it has no
Speaker 3: presence in China. You might remember, oh, yeah, they don't
Speaker 3: use it there, they use different app.
Speaker 1: That's worrying.
Speaker 2: It is worry That's a bit like how the Silicon
Speaker 2: Valley tech bros don't let their kids have phones.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're going to put this in the US.
Speaker 3: We're going to spread misinformation, propaganda. We're going to turn
Speaker 3: you all on each other and see what happens.
Speaker 1: So an example of how it could be used I
Speaker 1: was reading is so, for example, one country invades another country. Yeah,
Speaker 1: suddenly your TikTok feed could be full of people in
Speaker 1: the country that was being invaded very happy about the invasion,
Speaker 1: and you could be led to believe, via an algorithm
Speaker 1: and via propaganda, that maybe that invasion was actually very cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly right. So you might remember all the way
Speaker 3: back in twenty twenty, President Donald Trump signed executive orders
Speaker 3: to ban TikTok. He said it was a national security risk.
Speaker 3: They wanted to force TikTok to sell US operations to
Speaker 3: an American company, So basically have an arm where the
Speaker 3: American side gets to do its own thing, it's got
Speaker 3: some independence. And Byte Dance said absolutely, we will not
Speaker 3: do that. Then in April twenty twenty four, US Congress
Speaker 3: passed a law saying either Byte Dance sells TikTok to
Speaker 3: a non Chinese owner, or we're shutting you down. And
Speaker 3: they chose the latter. So boom, one hundred and seventy
Speaker 3: million Americans who use the app suddenly couldn't until they could.
Speaker 3: Less than twenty four hours later, TikTok was restored. In
Speaker 3: a statement, TikTok said, we thank President Trump for providing
Speaker 3: the necessary clarity and assurance to our service providers. They
Speaker 3: basically said, we don't want to penalize the Americans using it,
Speaker 3: allowing over seven million small businesses to thrive. They and
Speaker 3: for the First Amendment right and against arbitrary censorship.
Speaker 1: Our business is thriving on TikTok. Small businesses I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, some do when some came out. I've seen a
Speaker 3: lot of business owners say that they've they've built their
Speaker 3: businesses off the back of TikTok.
Speaker 1: They did in ads made by TikTok.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but think about the economic impact. Think of say
Speaker 2: the tween's skincare craze right, almost entirely fed by TikTok. Right,
Speaker 2: that has entirely changed the beauty industry. So imagine if you.
Speaker 3: Take that out for some small business industry, like a
Speaker 3: cupcake shop on the corner. If you could leverage you know,
Speaker 3: TikTok properly, you can get your message out to a
Speaker 3: lot of people in a very free way.
Speaker 1: It's have you met an algorithm? And are you actually kidding?
Speaker 1: What we know about TikTok is that it's different to
Speaker 1: every other social media app in that followers don't really matter,
Speaker 1: and there's also no real rhyme nor reason to what
Speaker 1: goes viral. So I agree that, as you said, holy
Speaker 1: TikTok globally has a massive cultural in making trends.
Speaker 2: And then that has a commercial impact in selling stuff.
Speaker 1: It can, but you don't have any control over that
Speaker 1: because it's so random. So you can make a video
Speaker 1: that goes absolutely viral, and then you can make a
Speaker 1: hundred other videos that just don't and you don't know
Speaker 1: why because it's about this algorithm. And of course the
Speaker 1: other platforms are going the same way now because everybody's
Speaker 1: trying to be like TikTok, which an idea that it's
Speaker 1: helping small business is just not true.
Speaker 3: I think it is. I would argue with you on that.
Speaker 3: I think especially in like the travel space or whatever.
Speaker 3: You'll notice it. You'll go traveling and everyone is going
Speaker 3: to this cliff top bar. Yeah, why they're going to
Speaker 3: that clifftop bar because they've seen it. That's how travel
Speaker 3: has been things like that.
Speaker 1: It's curated, but it's accidental, Like you can't manufacture that
Speaker 1: unless guess what you pay for advertising on TikTok. You
Speaker 1: can't say, oh, I've got a million followers, I'm going
Speaker 1: to put out this thing and a million people will
Speaker 1: see it. Maybe there are a.
Speaker 3: Lot of businesses in the US which would have a
Speaker 3: TikTok department, and that's what I'm kind of interested about.
Speaker 3: But for context, Trump took a liking to the app
Speaker 3: last year because he used it a lot for his
Speaker 3: presidential campaign. He was kind of good at it, and
Speaker 3: it's unclear whether he actually has the power at this
Speaker 3: point to overrule the TikTok ban. My question is, Maya,
Speaker 3: what do you think happens now?
Speaker 1: We know that over the last or since Trump won
Speaker 1: the election, it's just been a procession of tech billionaires
Speaker 1: and CEOs making their way to Mari Lago, where he's
Speaker 1: been camped out, to kiss the ring and to curry
Speaker 1: favor with him because ironically, yes, he was the one
Speaker 1: that started all of this by saying TikTok should be banned.
Speaker 3: And then he's a savior.
Speaker 1: I can't.
Speaker 3: But of course that the beginning of the story.
Speaker 1: But that is such a great plot point, you know,
Speaker 1: and nobody remembers the beginning of anything. Everybody's just about
Speaker 1: what's happening right now. And also, he used to be
Speaker 1: at war with lots of the tech bros. He said
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg should be a jail. He was at war with
Speaker 1: lots of them, and now they're all onside. So he's
Speaker 1: very much positioning himself as the hero of free speech
Speaker 1: social media.
Speaker 2: Those guys no reck elation. So it's very on brand
Speaker 2: for him at the moment that he would be the savior.
Speaker 1: So we're about to enter the new phase of this
Speaker 1: reality show and Trump. You know, when it was very
Speaker 1: chaotic last time, and it was all about resistance and
Speaker 1: it was this you know, combative situation between Trump and everybody.
Speaker 1: Now it's completely different this second term, and it's a
Speaker 1: lot more about deference. There's no defiance, it's just deference.
Speaker 1: So what Trump would want is for it to be banned,
Speaker 1: because it's much more interesting if it's banned, and then
Speaker 1: he brings it back versus him stepping in before it's banned,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? So everyone's experienced it.
Speaker 1: It's a lot more more interesting, a lot more drama,
Speaker 1: more attention for him.
Speaker 3: The reason it came back, Biden has sort of said,
Speaker 3: I'm going to leave it to Trump.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he's out. He literally has about six more hours.
Speaker 2: And there are all kinds of rumors about the sort
Speaker 2: of coalitions that are being put together that might be
Speaker 2: palatable for the US government to be able to say, look,
Speaker 2: now it's part American owned and all those things, and
Speaker 2: the CEO of TikTok is going to be at the
Speaker 2: inauguration sitting right next to all the other right on
Speaker 2: the stage, So it's going to be.
Speaker 1: Literally just they'll sell some of it to you because
Speaker 1: of that algorithm. So some people are like, oh, he's
Speaker 1: just setting it up so he can sell it to
Speaker 1: Elon Musk, who is Vice President in waiting. Why that
Speaker 1: won't happen is that this algorithm, this algorithm is so
Speaker 1: some say dodgy, some say incredibly powerful. It's probably both.
Speaker 1: No one wants that ip to get out to competitors,
Speaker 1: and Twitter is a competitor. So even though Elon would
Speaker 1: love it and Trump would probably like Elon to have it,
Speaker 1: Trump's all about the deal. Actually, his favorite thing is
Speaker 1: when people are fighting with each other. So he's now
Speaker 1: got the CEO of TikTok, he's got Mark Zuckerberg, he's
Speaker 1: got Elon, he's got Jeff Bezos. They're all just competing
Speaker 1: with each other, Sam Altman from Open Aie, They're all
Speaker 1: just competing with each other to see who can do
Speaker 1: whatever Trump wants.
Speaker 2: My kids confidently told me that mister Beast is buying it,
Speaker 2: so that actually, and they're like, don't worry, he's going
Speaker 2: to save it. And I'm like, Sam, legit. Anyway, I
Speaker 2: want to talk about the response. Because we started this
Speaker 2: segment by playing all the sound of all the TikTok
Speaker 2: creators crying. Now it's easy to mock that. I can
Speaker 2: understand it. I mean, the thing we were just arguing
Speaker 2: about whether or not people make money from TikTok. Of
Speaker 2: course they do in different ways. You know, if Instagram
Speaker 2: has suddenly disappeared tomorrow, I would take a financial hit,
Speaker 2: like I literally would.
Speaker 1: I mark in my books.
Speaker 2: Through that, we promote our podcasts through that, we make
Speaker 2: content through that. So for some people it's about livelihood,
Speaker 2: but for many, many, many more, it's just about It's
Speaker 2: really interesting in the way we've completely changed our view
Speaker 2: of what media is and how we now see the
Speaker 2: social platforms that we check, as you said, Jesse every
Speaker 2: two or three minutes, not as private companies or media organizations,
Speaker 2: but like air and water, line rights, basic service, basic services,
Speaker 2: human rights, things we can't do without, but our lives
Speaker 2: are there. How could you take that? It's really hard
Speaker 2: not to sound a bit boomery to say this, but
Speaker 2: that's kind of really sad. It's really sad addiction, isn't it.
Speaker 2: It's literal addiction. I think it's really interesting to see that.
Speaker 2: You know, we love it. It's constant distraction, it's our
Speaker 2: particular choice of entertainment and all these things. But it
Speaker 2: isn't air or water, it isn't real human connection, and
Speaker 2: it's really difficult to, i think, for people to get
Speaker 2: their heads around the attachment people have. So you probably
Speaker 2: might have seen a lot of headlines over the weekend
Speaker 2: saying Americans are now logging onto other Chinese owned social
Speaker 2: media platforms, laugh particularly one called red Note, because they
Speaker 2: would rather almost anything than to not have their version
Speaker 2: of TikTok when they open their phone.
Speaker 3: It's one the headline. The headline on the drum was
Speaker 3: TikTok evacuees would rather learn Mandarin for red note than
Speaker 3: use meta, Which is funny because you might have noticed
Speaker 3: in the last week Meta changed how your grid looks.
Speaker 3: Have you noticed this? They've changed it into the TikTok
Speaker 3: dimensions exactly. Look, as you were saying with content creators,
Speaker 3: I understand crying as a content creator. Eighty five percent
Speaker 3: of those content creators are women, and they're making a
Speaker 3: decent living. There's a creative fund.
Speaker 1: I don't know how many. No, the creative fund gives
Speaker 1: almost nothing, So I think some people are making money.
Speaker 1: Most people are not making money. So I think what
Speaker 1: they dangle is the prospect of making money. You know, oh,
Speaker 1: you could go viral this video you just post again,
Speaker 1: you could go viral. You could go viral. But even
Speaker 1: the people who go viral can they then monetize that
Speaker 1: virality because it's so random. It's really hard. It is.
Speaker 3: But I think it would be wrong to suggest that
Speaker 3: no one's making money off it like they are. Some
Speaker 3: people have a real, real livelihood.
Speaker 2: Also, it makes them famous and they can speak it
Speaker 2: off to other things. Yeah, I think it's more branding.
Speaker 3: And everyone has said TikTok. I'm like any other social
Speaker 3: media app ever created will make you go faster. It
Speaker 3: will make you go viral faster than anything. In that way,
Speaker 3: it's easier.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting what you said whole. If someone
Speaker 1: said I'm taking your phone away tomorrow, I would be
Speaker 1: because I'm addicted to it, and also because I assume
Speaker 1: having a phone and having connection to the Internet is
Speaker 1: a human right, Like I get that this idea of
Speaker 1: what do you mean I can't have it?
Speaker 3: And for a generation, this isn't only an entertainment app.
Speaker 3: It's news, it's Google.
Speaker 1: There also be nits. But used to being told no.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, but I'm trying to think of a comparison.
Speaker 3: I mean, think about you in the eighties or whatever,
Speaker 3: if someone tried to take your TV, Like it's a
Speaker 3: similar comparison. But I think that if it is something,
Speaker 3: if it's the way that you search anything, it's like,
Speaker 3: how do I even live now? It's not like any
Speaker 3: other product.
Speaker 2: It's interesting though, because without wanting to go to weeedy,
Speaker 2: what me is saying about the way the algorithm owns
Speaker 2: us all is true. But also this trend and we've
Speaker 2: talked about it all the tech guys who are going
Speaker 2: to be sitting very front and center on that stage tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Is In Zuckerberg's interview with Joe Rogan, he very much
Speaker 2: paints himself and the other tech companies as massive victims
Speaker 2: of government overreach. Right, so he very much says, you know,
Speaker 2: government's all over the world, and I assume when he
Speaker 2: says that, he is also partly referencing Australia and our
Speaker 2: upcoming social media band are trying to limit our business,
Speaker 2: trying to take your information away from you, trying to
Speaker 2: take away your free speech. And so it's very on
Speaker 2: brand at the moment, very popular because they don't want
Speaker 2: to be regulated. Yet they don't want to be regulated,
Speaker 2: they want to make more and more money. But happily
Speaker 2: they've also made their users, including all of us, believe
Speaker 2: that their services are so essential and they're trying to
Speaker 2: be taken away. And so that's why it's so genius
Speaker 2: in a way that when an Americans opened TikTok yesterday
Speaker 2: and saw that it was gone, the President Trump of
Speaker 2: it all in that message was immediately like, but Daddy
Speaker 2: Trump is going to come along and he's going to
Speaker 2: give all you kids back your TikTok, and all those people,
Speaker 2: young people, many of whom probably are not sympathetic to
Speaker 2: President Trump in general, are going to be like, thanks, Dad.
Speaker 3: He saved us. Those companies have so far been stifled
Speaker 3: by government overreach.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine what will happen?
Speaker 3: You imagine what would happen when they're.
Speaker 1: Not After the break, Michelle Obama has taken on Holly's
Speaker 1: word of the Year, and I have an announcement.
Speaker 6: Four bush and a bikini full bush, and a bikini
Speaker 6: full bush and a bikini like full bush in a bikini.
Speaker 1: Friends, it wouldn't be the start of the year without
Speaker 1: important pubic hair news. And today we have some full
Speaker 1: bush in a bikini. As you just heard, is a
Speaker 1: phrase that I'd like to consider for our first out
Speaker 1: loud merch drop because it speaks to a growing full
Speaker 1: bush movement in the pants of gen Z women while
Speaker 1: gen X and boomer women are feeling very excited about
Speaker 1: finally having on trend pubes. Happy days. All right, let's
Speaker 1: unpack these pubes together. The woman you just heard is
Speaker 1: the one we have to thank for this new phrase.
Speaker 1: Her name is Suninda, and she's a regular person on TikTok.
Speaker 1: Funnily enough, who was just scrolling through Etsy and found
Speaker 1: this bikini that she quite liked. And underneath there were
Speaker 1: all these reviews from people who'd bought the bikini, including
Speaker 1: someone who'd bought it and posted a picture of herself,
Speaker 1: and in this picture it was a positive review. Suninda
Speaker 1: noticed that she had a very, very full bush. Now
Speaker 1: nobody can actually locate this photo, because yes, I have tried.
Speaker 1: The sentiment is being widely embraced by the thirteen million
Speaker 1: people who've watched that video about it. Now, this does
Speaker 1: seem to be bad news for laser people who might
Speaker 1: want to consider merkans, because laser is sadly not reversible.
Speaker 1: There has been some really awesome commentary overall, translating to
Speaker 1: you do you. One particular poetic observer noted pubic hair,
Speaker 1: often viewed through a lens of societal uneasy taboo, is
Speaker 1: here reclaimed as a form of personal expression and empowerment,
Speaker 1: and another person brilliantly described it as age one week
Speaker 1: born on TikTok appearance dense and luxuriant. The movement's unofficial
Speaker 1: motto comes from this comment. Every time you keep your
Speaker 1: bush despite societal pressures an angel gains its wings.
Speaker 3: Yeah, have you guys seen this at the beach this summer? No,
Speaker 3: I've seen it in the wild.
Speaker 2: I think I see it anyway, because I hang around
Speaker 2: with normal people. Yeah, exactly, we still have pubic care.
Speaker 3: I've definitely seen.
Speaker 2: A very judgmental comment. Me is glaring at me because
Speaker 2: it sound like I'm saying that people who don't have
Speaker 2: pubic care not normal. No, No, I retract that comment.
Speaker 2: You misread my look.
Speaker 1: It was what situations are you in where you see
Speaker 1: other women's pubic care when.
Speaker 2: Miss the beach and it's coming out of the sides
Speaker 2: of their bikini.
Speaker 1: But so you have seen it in the wild, Okay.
Speaker 3: And when you're saying you don't think it's intentional, I
Speaker 3: don't think.
Speaker 2: I don't think i've seen it in the wild as
Speaker 2: like a cool TikTok trend. I think I've just seen
Speaker 2: it in the wild as the way that women look
Speaker 2: when they go swimming at the beach.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I wonder if as a result of the new
Speaker 3: cut of bikinis. When I say new, let's say the
Speaker 3: last two years, yes, is inevitable have gone? I either
Speaker 3: remove with a tweezer every single hair I've ever grown,
Speaker 3: or I just embrace this because the cut at the
Speaker 3: front I quite like a not a boyleg, but like,
Speaker 3: oh yeah, I don't do a G string or whatever.
Speaker 1: I just the high nineties, the high nineties thing.
Speaker 3: I mean, you can get a great bikini like you
Speaker 3: can do your bikini line. You've not even half removed
Speaker 3: what's going to be on show. So I think people
Speaker 3: have just gone it's all too hard. Let the bush fly.
Speaker 2: Tomorrow is the coronation, sorry, inauguration of Donald Trump as
Speaker 2: the returning president of the USA. And look, we're going
Speaker 2: to be pulling Amelia Lester out of the corner. She's
Speaker 2: likely rocking in to attend our debrief when we're going
Speaker 2: to record a little episode about the event just for subscribers.
Speaker 2: But someone who is not accepting her invitation to the party, which,
Speaker 2: unlike the last time Trump took off, is going to
Speaker 2: be a big, well attended affair with huge, very well
Speaker 2: funded victory parties all over town, is Michelle Obama, who
Speaker 2: is we've decided giving big let them energy to her
Speaker 2: year of nup. Her husband is going, Hillary Clinton is going,
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris and Doug are going. Former presidents Bush and
Speaker 2: Clinton and the current one we think he's called Joe
Speaker 2: Biden will be there, of course with Jill. But Michelle
Speaker 2: has said nup, not doing it, and I think it
Speaker 2: means something. Last time Trump was standing on that White
Speaker 2: House stage in his big coat, it was the Obamas
Speaker 2: who were leaving office, and she said, understandably perhaps that
Speaker 2: she cried her eyes out afterwards. Here's a little bit
Speaker 2: of what she said about it.
Speaker 4: To sit on that stage and watch the opposite of
Speaker 4: what we represented on display. There was no diversity, there
Speaker 4: was no color on that stage. There was no reflection
Speaker 4: of the broader sense of America. I cried for thirty
Speaker 4: minutes straight, uncontrollable sobbing, because that's how much we were
Speaker 4: holding it together for eight years.
Speaker 2: So this time she is protecting her peace and nupping
Speaker 2: it so we believe, is Nancy Pelosi. I wonder if
Speaker 2: this is all part of the lessons being learned from
Speaker 2: the Trump era, like fuck the rules, fuck the niceties,
Speaker 2: We're gonna do what we want to do. Because former
Speaker 2: president's wives have always gone to these things. Michelle Obama, though,
Speaker 2: is one of the most high profile of all of
Speaker 2: those women, and she is not going to go and
Speaker 2: smile and shake hands with the man she's openly criticized
Speaker 2: in the past, unlike a lot of the people who
Speaker 2: are going to be there, who have said awful things
Speaker 2: about Trump before, but now suddenly, as we just discussed,
Speaker 2: are saying, Oh, actually he's fine. Here, I have some money,
Speaker 2: let's have a party.
Speaker 1: Mia.
Speaker 2: Does Michelle's not have a broader significance?
Speaker 1: I thought it was really interesting that she did this
Speaker 1: after last week or the week before not attending Jimmy
Speaker 1: Carter's funeral as well.
Speaker 3: What was the reason for that? Has she said? What
Speaker 3: the reason was?
Speaker 1: She the reason that she gave for not attending Jimmy
Speaker 1: Carter's funeral, He was the oldest living president, and every
Speaker 1: other living president was there. There were some really funny
Speaker 1: memes and videos about that. But she said she had
Speaker 1: a scheduling conflict, and it was later discovered that she
Speaker 1: was on holiday I think in Hawaii or somewhere, and
Speaker 1: so that actually all sparked up a little bit of
Speaker 1: divorce rumors over the weekend. How are the Obama's doing?
Speaker 1: They haven't been seen in public for a while, which
Speaker 1: Obama hosed down by posting a happy birthday photo with
Speaker 1: him and Michelle holding hands over a table, and she commented,
Speaker 1: love you honey anyway her nup. I think, Holly, you've
Speaker 1: nailed it. It's you know, if you've read Becoming, which
Speaker 1: we all have. Michelle's autobiography, she talks so much about
Speaker 1: being the first Black first lady and how she had
Speaker 1: to just be so so diligent about not giving anybody
Speaker 1: anything to weaponize against her and against black women and
Speaker 1: black people by being perfect essentially, And imagine what it
Speaker 1: must have felt like for her to then leave and
Speaker 1: then see basically Milania just came in and took a
Speaker 1: big dump over what that role has traditioned been, including
Speaker 1: my personal highlight of wearing the jacket saying I don't
Speaker 1: care to you when she was going to visit children
Speaker 1: in cages. So I think she's literally just drawn a
Speaker 1: line in the sand. She's having the year of nap,
Speaker 1: just like you whole, and I think that everybody's seen,
Speaker 1: particularly women. You can do everything right, Kamala Harras. You
Speaker 1: can be even Hillary Clinton, you can be qualified, You
Speaker 1: can do all the right things, you can say all
Speaker 1: the right things, and it doesn't seem to matter.
Speaker 3: I think she's read let them. I reckon she read
Speaker 3: her over the holidays, because I know that Oprah, how
Speaker 3: I believe you know they're in a chap. Sure, Oprah
Speaker 3: read it. Oprah loved it. I think she said, Michelle,
Speaker 3: not passive aggressively, but just said, I think you'd get
Speaker 3: a lot out of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let them have their party.
Speaker 3: Yes, let them have their party, but let me not come.
Speaker 3: And that's what she's decided to do.
Speaker 2: Because I ask you, though, Jessie, because you're very good
Speaker 2: at this, what's the respectful line of nup in that situation?
Speaker 2: Because when you lose, you shake the hand of the winner,
Speaker 2: and you know the progressive side of politics, and made
Speaker 2: a big deal of that after the insurrection in Washington
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one. So you shake the hand, you
Speaker 2: follow the niceties. Is there like a disrespectful line of nup?
Speaker 2: Because does that also mean you have to go?
Speaker 3: You were right? I was wrong. I reckon she did
Speaker 3: that in twenty sixteen watching the Obamas after Trump said
Speaker 3: that Barack Obama was the head of isis total falsehoods
Speaker 3: about them For them to show up at his inauguration
Speaker 3: and shake his hand and be respectful they did their job.
Speaker 3: She's no longer the first lady. I think your job's finished.
Speaker 3: It's so fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, whereas your role as a former president, your job's
Speaker 1: kind of neverit different.
Speaker 3: It's different. And she wasn't the president, she was the
Speaker 3: first lady.
Speaker 1: Because Obama sat next to Trump at the funeral. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they were famously seen. He was sort of like laughing.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was making small talk. He'd have to.
Speaker 3: And let's not forget there is one president in all
Speaker 3: of US history who did not show up to an inauguration,
Speaker 3: and it was Donald Trump and Millennia. They did not
Speaker 3: show up to Joe bien As inauguration. So I totally
Speaker 3: respect her move. There's another nut story this week. I'm
Speaker 3: not sure if you've seen it. So Novak Djokovic is
Speaker 3: also embracing his year of nuts. Some would say, you know,
Speaker 3: we're going on to twenty years of nut with Djokovic.
Speaker 2: You're a tennis correspondent.
Speaker 3: Yes, Australian Open, so this is the news today. He
Speaker 3: won his quarter final last night and then he refused
Speaker 3: to speak to the reporter on the court. He just
Speaker 3: kind of said something to the audience and then walked off.
Speaker 3: He was speaking afterwards about why he made that decision.
Speaker 5: The reason why I chose not to do that is
Speaker 5: because a few days ago a famous a sports journalist
Speaker 5: here from Australia who works for a main broadcaster of
Speaker 5: Australia and open at Channel nine, decided to mock a
Speaker 5: Serbian fans and he made insulting and offensive comments towards me.
Speaker 5: So I was hoping he's going to apologize in public,
Speaker 5: which he hasn't done yet.
Speaker 6: I made it into the channel name.
Speaker 3: So what did Jones actually say? Here's a grab of
Speaker 3: what he said the other day back to.
Speaker 7: Melbourne Park where you can see the Novak Djokovic fans
Speaker 7: there in full voice. Yeah, the chances are quite exuretiny Novak,
Speaker 7: he's overrated. Novaksa has the Novack kicking out.
Speaker 6: Oh I'm glad they can't hear me.
Speaker 1: But wasn't he just repeating what the chances were saying.
Speaker 3: They were actually supporters and he mocked the Serbian fans,
Speaker 3: which Novak hated. I reckon it's totally fair enough for
Speaker 3: him to finish playing a match which he won. You know,
Speaker 3: he's been the number one in the world for a
Speaker 3: very long time. I'm not sure if he is right now,
Speaker 3: but he has been to be mocked by a commentator
Speaker 3: like that. It's like, no, I'm not going to come
Speaker 3: out and talk to you. And then this morning Jones
Speaker 3: came out and apologize.
Speaker 1: Remember when Michelle Obama said when they go low, we
Speaker 1: go high about Donald Trump.
Speaker 3: Now it's when we go low we go to Hawaii,
Speaker 3: we don't.
Speaker 2: Go It's interesting because I reckon that fits into the
Speaker 2: screw of the rules. Who because it's like, you have
Speaker 2: to give an interview to this particular journalist.
Speaker 1: This is the official broadcaster.
Speaker 2: You absolutely have to. This is how it works. It's
Speaker 2: always been done like this, so on and so on
Speaker 2: and so on, and there's just a whole lot of people,
Speaker 2: powerful people, it has to be said, who are able
Speaker 2: to do it just going not gonna don't like you,
Speaker 2: that's not okay.
Speaker 1: On that note, I've got a little announcement. For the
Speaker 1: first time in out Loud history, I am changing my
Speaker 1: word of the Year. Oh so I should have known
Speaker 1: there was a problem when because out Loud as we
Speaker 1: record our word of the Year episode just before we
Speaker 1: go off on Christmas break, can we release it on
Speaker 1: news Day? As is tradition but when I was away,
Speaker 1: even before the episode came out, I couldn't remember what
Speaker 1: the word is.
Speaker 3: I actually can't remember right now. It was make okay mate.
Speaker 1: I don't want that word a bit. I refuse to
Speaker 1: have it. My word is going to be let them.
Speaker 1: And I know I'm breaking two rules. Not only am
Speaker 1: I changing my word, but I'm usually the stickler for
Speaker 1: you can't have more than one word. It can all
Speaker 1: be made one word with a hyphen. And I didn't
Speaker 1: know about let them before, and I've just found myself
Speaker 1: using that so much in January when I couldn't remember
Speaker 1: what my other word was. So I'm changing.
Speaker 2: Them them, turn it into one word, let them, leave them,
Speaker 2: let them.
Speaker 3: We should say, if you missed our word of the
Speaker 3: Year episode, we'll have a link in our show notes.
Speaker 3: And apparently there are new rules and you can just
Speaker 3: choose a word now I need. The new season of
Speaker 3: I'm a Celebrity premiered last night, and no one recognized
Speaker 3: each other. That's hyperbolic, but in an article for news
Speaker 3: dot com dot Au, Nick Bond writes it makes for
Speaker 3: an awkward I'm a celeb premiere when even the stars
Speaker 3: don't recognize each other. Samantha, who featured on Married at
Speaker 3: First Sight, asked sam Ti Day, the former captain of
Speaker 3: the Brisbane Broncos, so what's your talent? I really like
Speaker 3: the use of the word in there.
Speaker 2: But before you went in, don't you reckon? You'd bone
Speaker 2: up on like every possible person who might be in there,
Speaker 2: so you could go sah.
Speaker 3: Holly, you could have done that and you still wouldn't
Speaker 3: have come across some of these. I'm going to throw
Speaker 3: some names at you. Zach Towhey, guess, come on, guess.
Speaker 2: Zach Towey. Does he have a you know what?
Speaker 3: He might, but he's an AFL player, Tina proves, Come on.
Speaker 1: Tina influencers.
Speaker 2: I feel bad.
Speaker 3: Love Island contestant probably has more flowers than both of
Speaker 3: you put together on Instagram. I'm sure going Holy yeah right,
Speaker 3: Max Blegda never heard he's so famous. He is a
Speaker 3: UK TikTok creator with you half a million followers or something.
Speaker 3: There's also Nikky Buckley. What do I feel like? You know?
Speaker 1: Sale of the.
Speaker 2: Century Maddie j who he is from Lovely Chat podcaster
Speaker 2: married to.
Speaker 3: Shana Jack No decorator, olympian. Oh you're thinking of I
Speaker 3: know she thinks she's on a TV Who's on the block.
Speaker 2: Blaze, she'd be quite different.
Speaker 3: Shana Jack Swims, Reggie Bird. Do we remember Reggie? She
Speaker 3: won Big Brother?
Speaker 1: Oh Reggie? I remember that Reggie lost her sight, didn't
Speaker 1: she recently?
Speaker 3: She's got a degenerate condition.
Speaker 1: Wow, that'll make it a challenge in the jungle. Maybe
Speaker 1: it'll be easier because she doesn't have to look at
Speaker 1: what she's eating.
Speaker 3: She can just eat you exactly. Right point is there's
Speaker 3: a lot of diversity in the fame element. My pet
Speaker 3: hate is when I see people comment on a news
Speaker 3: article about a famous person with who, because I look
Speaker 3: it up, and also it's a flex you're trying to say,
Speaker 3: like I don't even know who that is.
Speaker 1: I think you're being harsh. I often will be reading
Speaker 1: something or looking at a picture of someone, and in
Speaker 1: my mind will be the sentence, I do not know
Speaker 1: that person.
Speaker 3: That it's not a nice thing to say who.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it in a disparaging way. I'm just
Speaker 1: like recognizing the complete fragmentation of fame.
Speaker 3: And that's what this speaks to, is that fame. I
Speaker 3: think it's what makes the show really interesting. The only
Speaker 3: household name in this is Dave Hughes Cusey, but it
Speaker 3: speaks to how fame means something different to every generation.
Speaker 3: I love the idea of a household like your household, Holly.
Speaker 3: I guarantee that your kids know these people.
Speaker 1: I do think jen z Ed's would even know who
Speaker 1: Hughes he was.
Speaker 3: No true.
Speaker 2: I tell Brent all the time that the most embarrassing
Speaker 2: thing he says all the time it's never heard of them.
Speaker 1: Which is what he says.
Speaker 2: It will be said many times during the Hottest one
Speaker 2: hundred countdown. He'll be like Sabrina Carpenter, never heard of them? Like, mate,
Speaker 2: shut up, it's embarrassed.
Speaker 3: I always think, though you turn up in the jungle,
Speaker 3: you don't recognize anyone. How do you ask a question?
Speaker 3: I like the what's your talents?
Speaker 1: Your talent that's great.
Speaker 3: I like that in a moment Harry and Meghan's big
Speaker 3: cover story, we will and by that I mean Holly
Speaker 3: and Maya will tell you everything you need to know about.
Speaker 2: It out loud as.
Speaker 1: If you want to listen to us every day of
Speaker 1: the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on
Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a mum and mea subscriber.
Speaker 1: Follow the link in the show notes to subscribe and
Speaker 1: support us, and a big thank you to all our
Speaker 1: current subscribers. Five years after Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's
Speaker 1: Royal exit, Vanity Fair has published an extensive eight thousand
Speaker 1: word cover story, which is a lot of words just
Speaker 1: for ret novella. Yeah, that is actually your regular cover
Speaker 1: story or your regular feature online would probably be about
Speaker 1: two thousand words, maybe three thousand words if it was
Speaker 1: very chunky, And the most interesting part about this story
Speaker 1: is that there were no interviews granted by the actual
Speaker 1: couple themselves, but this story examines their post royal life
Speaker 1: and it was obviously time to coincide with the scheduled
Speaker 1: launch of her new show on Netflix, which was postponed
Speaker 1: for a couple of months because of the bushfires.
Speaker 3: It was written by.
Speaker 1: Contributing editor and Appeal, and it interviewed lots some lots
Speaker 1: of people who've worked with them since they moved to
Speaker 1: America or who know them, and it sort of is
Speaker 1: all about how they've navigated this transition over the.
Speaker 3: Have you actually read eight thousand.
Speaker 1: Well every word?
Speaker 3: Are you kidding about? You?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 3: I need to confess.
Speaker 1: I broke out thumbs clicking on it.
Speaker 3: I looked at it and I went, Jesse, you're going
Speaker 3: to die one day and you don't want to spend Okay, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Twenty five cover line was American Hustlers, which I think is.
Speaker 3: I like to cover. I thought that was interesting, but
Speaker 3: I went, life's too short, so I thought you'd fill
Speaker 3: me in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the cover was a pap shot of the
Speaker 1: two of them in Sunny's on some public event. I'm
Speaker 1: going to give you the five takeaways so you don't
Speaker 1: have to read it first. One was all about workplace drama.
Speaker 1: So there's a source that described Megan's management style as
Speaker 1: mean girls teenager, suggesting that she'd undermine employees by talking
Speaker 1: behind their back and gnawing at their sense of self
Speaker 1: and multiple employees told Vanity Fair that they reportedly took
Speaker 1: extended breaks or underwent therapy after working with her. I
Speaker 1: think everyone should have therapy.
Speaker 3: Anyways, were there multiple sources? Was that one source like how.
Speaker 1: Baucs of sources through the whole thing, but a lot
Speaker 1: of them were almost all of them were anonymous. So
Speaker 1: you have to take all of this with a big
Speaker 1: pinch of salt ok. The second theme of this article
Speaker 1: was about the production chaos around the podcast that they
Speaker 1: or that she recorded with Spotify. They signed you might
Speaker 1: remember one hundred million dollar deal I think, with Spotify
Speaker 1: to produce some podcasts. Megan produced a podcast called Archetypes,
Speaker 1: which we know, and this article talked about people who
Speaker 1: worked at Spotify, saying that she'd agree to provocative ideas
Speaker 1: but then walk them back on the show. So like,
Speaker 1: one episode was meant to be about the word slut
Speaker 1: as being this archetype that women are called, but she
Speaker 1: didn't want to say the word slut. She didn't want
Speaker 1: to say the word bitch, So the bitch episode was
Speaker 1: called the b word.
Speaker 2: I thought this was a bit unfair, too, right, because
Speaker 2: one of the things that must be very hard to
Speaker 2: be Megan and Harry and I know that like the
Speaker 2: world's smallest violin, but you would know that everything you
Speaker 2: said in any setting, any creative brainstorm session, anything with
Speaker 2: any employees, that Vanity Fair and every other media publication
Speaker 2: lord would love to know.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So imagine that we're having a brainstorming session about what's
Speaker 2: a new podcast going to be, and I have a
Speaker 2: terrible idea and you have a worse idea, Jesse, because
Speaker 2: that would definitely happen, and Mia just has an embarrassing
Speaker 2: idea because.
Speaker 1: The idea is just lame.
Speaker 2: It's like, this is what that is, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, It's like they can't do that because they're
Speaker 2: so high risk. Every would like, can you believe that
Speaker 2: Mia Friedman said that thing? You know? And or the
Speaker 2: other thing was I can picture this very clearly too,
Speaker 2: that they would enthusiastically say because Hattery, for example, apparently
Speaker 2: wanted to do one where he interviewed high profile sociopaths,
Speaker 2: including Vladimir Putin, Mark Zuckerberg.
Speaker 3: That sounds like a great.
Speaker 1: This was actually my favorite thing in the whole interview.
Speaker 1: For people who've ever worked on podcasts or who've worked
Speaker 1: in media, trying to learn interviews and particularly trying to
Speaker 1: learn podcast guests in this very out of market is challenging, right,
Speaker 1: So a lot of very hard. So the idea that
Speaker 1: Harry wanted to make this podcast about was about men
Speaker 1: who have traumatic events happened to them in the childhood.
Speaker 1: Like he said, my mother was basically murdered, My life
Speaker 1: was traumatic. Donald Trump Putin, all these other people, perhaps
Speaker 1: they had traumatic events, but what made me grow up
Speaker 1: into a lovely guy and them grow up and to
Speaker 1: be sociopaths. And the quote from a source was like
Speaker 1: this provided somewhat of a booking challenge to the producers.
Speaker 3: Hello, will you be on my podcast called I'm a Sociopath?
Speaker 1: Exactly?
Speaker 2: But also again I have a bit of sympathy because
Speaker 2: you know, you often do have really big, bold ideas
Speaker 2: and then you think them through and you're like, we
Speaker 2: would get annihilated.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but it's also.
Speaker 1: Just not possible, you know what I mean? So I
Speaker 1: think what it all spoke to is the rush. And
Speaker 1: this wasn't Harry and Meghan's fault. The check books were
Speaker 1: out to say, we'll throw all this money at you.
Speaker 1: Netflix did the same, and then it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: what will you actually do? And is anyone interested in
Speaker 1: what you have to say if it's not talking about
Speaker 1: the royal family, which you've ostensibly left. Also the relationship
Speaker 1: dynamic between them. A source described their relationship as intensely passionate.
Speaker 1: They are so hot for each other, the way they
Speaker 1: look at each other. I should probably not be here
Speaker 1: right now. One person said.
Speaker 2: I think that's accurate. Whenever you see them look at
Speaker 2: each other. They look at each other like that.
Speaker 1: But then others said that it was a little bit
Speaker 1: oedipus that Megan was essentially reparenting Harry and that he
Speaker 1: was trying to save her in the way that he
Speaker 1: couldn't save his mother. There was also a very interesting
Speaker 1: anecdote in there about Megan allegedly shopping a potential memoir
Speaker 1: about a divorce. If she were to get divorced, would
Speaker 1: people be interested in a divorce memoir from her? So
Speaker 1: that was interesting, It's weird, and there was no smoking
Speaker 1: guns in this right, so there was nothing that we
Speaker 1: haven't heard before. It was just really confirmation of all
Speaker 1: of those kind of rumors that they're difficult to work with,
Speaker 1: that they think they know best, that they're a bit
Speaker 1: clueless when it comes to making the world.
Speaker 3: Need another profile on Meghan and Harry.
Speaker 2: I ask the same question because one of the things
Speaker 2: that I think is really interesting about this because yes,
Speaker 2: it's basically a lot of mean spirited rumors stitch together
Speaker 2: and a lot of stuff we've heard already. As Mia said,
Speaker 2: So in twenty seventeen, Megan did a proper cover with
Speaker 2: Vanity Fair. Normally a Vanity Fair cover that features celebrity,
Speaker 2: not always but very often is an agreed shoot. An
Speaker 2: Illeblewitch shot it. It cost a bajillion dollars, a long
Speaker 2: form interview. The journalist travels with you, hangs around like
Speaker 2: it's success. It's access to access, and it's deeply sourced
Speaker 2: and it's prestigious.
Speaker 1: And it used to have to be that you'd only
Speaker 1: get a Vanity Fair cover if you gave them something
Speaker 1: a big exclusive, like will you talk about the miscarriage
Speaker 1: no one you had or the divorce like Jennifer Aniston
Speaker 1: famously after Brad So.
Speaker 2: When Meghan did that, it was the first time she'd
Speaker 2: ever spoken publicly about Harry. What is interesting to me
Speaker 2: is that we've gone from that, you know, like her
Speaker 2: giving full access to them, to Vanity Fair running basically
Speaker 2: what in the business we'd call it right around, which
Speaker 2: is they've got a random picture of them, made it
Speaker 2: look really lovely and glossy, slapped it on the cover,
Speaker 2: and then just wrote around everything we've already heard. And
Speaker 2: it's like, I wouldn't blame them for being really pissed
Speaker 2: off about that, because this is an exact example of
Speaker 2: why they hate the media, right even the media who
Speaker 2: are supposedly the most credible, the ones who are on
Speaker 2: their side and inverted commas. Clearly they're not anymore.
Speaker 3: And remember they did give access Megan in particular, did
Speaker 3: give access to the cut, and they wrote the most
Speaker 3: snarky It wasn't actually I thought it.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was. I think that was an
Speaker 1: interesting story. But the criticism that's made is that they've
Speaker 1: never really understood that the media is not just pr
Speaker 1: the media is independent.
Speaker 3: And I think they understand that. I think they get
Speaker 3: taught that lesson eighty five times a week.
Speaker 2: But the problem is it's left them with nowhere to
Speaker 2: go to promote their genuine things.
Speaker 1: But that's why she's back.
Speaker 2: Yes, so you would imagine for a major Netflix launch
Speaker 2: show as Megan hasn't. We know, we spoke last week
Speaker 2: about how it's been pushed from January to March because
Speaker 2: of the LA fires. She would be doing traditional media.
Speaker 2: She would be doing a Vanity Fair cover, for example,
Speaker 2: or a People cover, which she still made. People still
Speaker 2: do seem to be on side.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: She would be doing talk show appearances. She would be
Speaker 2: doing all kinds of things she isn't going to do
Speaker 2: any of that, because she and Harry have very clearly
Speaker 2: drawn the lines of the media haters for very good reason.
Speaker 2: But it kind of puts them in a difficult position then,
Speaker 2: because they're celebrities.
Speaker 3: I wonder if there's a world in which they did
Speaker 3: give Vanity Fair something and then they took it back
Speaker 3: after the LA fires. Is that possible?
Speaker 1: No, because the problem with magazines is that they're on
Speaker 1: very long, laid times. But also when you're a Netflix,
Speaker 1: I mean, your talent is contractually obliged to promote things.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because with the Polo documentary that Harry did
Speaker 1: that came out just before Christmas, they didn't seem to
Speaker 1: promote it. They didn't do interviews, they didn't Maybe this
Speaker 1: is written into their contract that they wanted, but it
Speaker 1: starts looking like not a very good deal, which is
Speaker 1: what all the trade press has been saying for a
Speaker 1: really long time that it hasn't been a good deal,
Speaker 1: which is why Spotify didn't renew. She's doing a new podcast, however,
Speaker 1: with another podcast company called Limonata. They want a platform
Speaker 1: and they want fame, but they don't really have a
Speaker 1: lot to say that people are interested in, because what
Speaker 1: people are interested in. Is not Megan talking about feminism.
Speaker 1: It's Megan talking about how hideous it was to be
Speaker 1: inside the royal family, and understandably she doesn't do that anymore.
Speaker 2: I disagree. I would read the absolute shit out of
Speaker 2: a long form Vanity Fair profile where I got to
Speaker 2: see inside Meghan's house, where I got to see, you know,
Speaker 2: like day in the life he stuff. I'm tired of
Speaker 2: all the royal gossip, like I've heard it all, all
Speaker 2: those stories. I mean, Harry wrote an entire book about that,
Speaker 2: very good book that was all about that. So now
Speaker 2: I still think in the same way, I'm interested in
Speaker 2: all kinds of celebrities. I would still want to peak,
Speaker 2: but they understandably do not want to show. To the
Speaker 2: end of our first show in our new home, how
Speaker 2: do we feel it went.
Speaker 1: Friends by, I think it was great. I'll come back
Speaker 1: again tomorrow, which.
Speaker 2: Is lucky because we will. As we mentioned, we back
Speaker 2: again tomorrow to talk about the inauguration. A massive thank
Speaker 2: you to all of you out louders for listening to
Speaker 2: our show today and to our fabulous team for putting
Speaker 2: it together in our new home. We're going to be
Speaker 2: back in your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Bye bye. Shout out to any Mum and MEA subscribers listening.
Speaker 3: If you love the show and you want to support us,
Speaker 3: subscribing to mom and Mia is the very best way
Speaker 3: to do so. There's a link in the episode description.
Speaker 3: Did you see the TikTok trend over the weekend of
Speaker 3: the Americans who knew they were losing TikTok confessing to things.
Speaker 1: Oh no, oh no, because I thought maybe for bush
Speaker 1: and a bikini was part of that. Now I'm just
Speaker 1: going I've got nothing. I'm gone now.
Speaker 3: It was like a sound of trending sound and it
Speaker 3: basically said, let's just say you would never have bought
Speaker 3: any of those skin care products if you knew that.
Speaker 3: I had to filter on someone else saying hundreds of
Speaker 3: thousands of followers about glute exercises, and she's like, I
Speaker 3: have a baby, l.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love like everyone wearing slightly short sighted.
Speaker 3: That's what I'm gonna.
Speaker 1: I'm like, damn it.
Speaker 3: And then I actually got here's a squat and it's
Speaker 3: like no, it's no more squats.