1 00:00:06,415 --> 00:00:15,214 Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma mea podcast. Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. 2 00:00:15,375 --> 00:00:18,855 Speaker 1: This is MMA MIA's twice daily news podcast. The Quickie 3 00:00:19,695 --> 00:00:24,015 Speaker 1: is having a boyfriend embarrassing Now it's the article everyone 4 00:00:24,095 --> 00:00:28,455 Speaker 1: is sharing. Chantae Joseph's Vogue explosion has undoubtedly been read 5 00:00:28,495 --> 00:00:31,735 Speaker 1: by millions of people and set off group chats everywhere. 6 00:00:32,214 --> 00:00:35,975 Speaker 1: She's asking why in twenty twenty five women are hosting 7 00:00:36,135 --> 00:00:41,374 Speaker 1: romances without faces, sharing glimpses without shouting boyfriend? And is 8 00:00:41,415 --> 00:00:44,974 Speaker 1: there actually a new kind of ick around partnership? So 9 00:00:45,015 --> 00:00:46,815 Speaker 1: why to sharing your love life online? 10 00:00:46,854 --> 00:00:47,014 Speaker 2: Now? 11 00:00:47,095 --> 00:00:50,455 Speaker 1: Feel cringey? Like you're giving away all your cool points? 12 00:00:50,974 --> 00:00:53,694 Speaker 1: And if you're single, dare I say by choice? Is 13 00:00:53,735 --> 00:00:57,055 Speaker 1: it actually a flex not a failure? Before we get there, 14 00:00:57,095 --> 00:00:59,815 Speaker 1: here's Clare Murphy with the latest from the QUICKI newsroom 15 00:00:59,895 --> 00:01:01,735 Speaker 1: for Thursday November. 16 00:01:01,295 --> 00:01:05,295 Speaker 3: Six, Thanks Taylor. The Victorian Supreme Court has released the 17 00:01:05,335 --> 00:01:09,375 Speaker 3: documents relating to Aaron Patterson's murder conviction appeal, revealing her 18 00:01:09,415 --> 00:01:12,735 Speaker 3: team believes a substantial miscarriage of justice has occurred. The 19 00:01:12,815 --> 00:01:16,655 Speaker 3: documents outlined the prosecution's five day cross examination of Patterson 20 00:01:16,695 --> 00:01:20,255 Speaker 3: after she chose to take the stand as unfair and oppressive. 21 00:01:20,575 --> 00:01:24,375 Speaker 3: Patterson's team also states that the prosecution's closing address caused 22 00:01:24,415 --> 00:01:28,055 Speaker 3: a substantial miscarriage of justice, claiming they changed their case 23 00:01:28,095 --> 00:01:30,575 Speaker 3: by implying there was a motive for the murders when 24 00:01:30,575 --> 00:01:32,655 Speaker 3: in their opening address they explained that there was no 25 00:01:32,735 --> 00:01:36,095 Speaker 3: evidence that clearly showed a motive. The appeal documents also 26 00:01:36,135 --> 00:01:38,975 Speaker 3: criticized a use of key evidence shared by the prosecution 27 00:01:39,135 --> 00:01:42,415 Speaker 3: during Patterson's trial, including the tracking of her phone via 28 00:01:42,455 --> 00:01:45,895 Speaker 3: phone tower locations and the sightings of death cap mushrooms 29 00:01:45,895 --> 00:01:49,135 Speaker 3: in those areas, as well as testimony given by Facebook friends. 30 00:01:49,455 --> 00:01:52,975 Speaker 3: The appeal documents also claim a substantial miscarriage of justice 31 00:01:53,135 --> 00:01:55,695 Speaker 3: after her lawyers attempted to show the jury photos and 32 00:01:55,775 --> 00:01:59,015 Speaker 3: video relating to mushrooms to show a history of foraging 33 00:01:59,055 --> 00:02:01,895 Speaker 3: by their client, which were found on SD card at 34 00:02:01,895 --> 00:02:05,495 Speaker 3: Patterson's home, but the judge ruled the evidence was inadmissible. 35 00:02:05,935 --> 00:02:09,855 Speaker 3: Patterson's appeal also points to a fundamental irregularity in relation 36 00:02:09,975 --> 00:02:12,815 Speaker 3: to the time the jury was sequested, which the documents 37 00:02:12,855 --> 00:02:16,375 Speaker 3: state fatally undermined the integrity of the verdicts, calling for 38 00:02:16,415 --> 00:02:19,375 Speaker 3: the convictions to be quashed and a retrial ordered. The 39 00:02:19,415 --> 00:02:21,655 Speaker 3: ABC is reporting that this is in relation to the 40 00:02:21,775 --> 00:02:24,415 Speaker 3: jurors being placed in the same hotel as a police 41 00:02:24,415 --> 00:02:28,495 Speaker 3: witness and two members of the prosecution's team. Patterson is 42 00:02:28,535 --> 00:02:31,095 Speaker 3: serving a minimum of thirty three years for the deaths 43 00:02:31,095 --> 00:02:33,695 Speaker 3: of her former in laws Don and Gale Patterson and 44 00:02:33,735 --> 00:02:36,695 Speaker 3: Gaal's sister Heather, and the attempted murder of Heather's husband 45 00:02:36,695 --> 00:02:40,495 Speaker 3: Ian after serving them deathcap mushroom laced beef Wellington at 46 00:02:40,495 --> 00:02:43,455 Speaker 3: a lunch at her home in twenty twenty three. Patterson's 47 00:02:43,455 --> 00:02:46,175 Speaker 3: documents have been accepted by the Court of Appeal, which 48 00:02:46,255 --> 00:02:49,895 Speaker 3: is yet to be granted leave to appeal. An academic 49 00:02:49,935 --> 00:02:52,575 Speaker 3: has worn the Liberal Party that women are watching how 50 00:02:52,615 --> 00:02:55,334 Speaker 3: they treat their leader. As Susan Lee continues to fight 51 00:02:55,415 --> 00:02:58,335 Speaker 3: to keep her leadership position, Lee has been forced to 52 00:02:58,415 --> 00:03:01,975 Speaker 3: keep addressing speculation a leadership battle is imminent, the most 53 00:03:02,015 --> 00:03:04,855 Speaker 3: recent coming after her two main rivals, Andrew Hasty and 54 00:03:04,895 --> 00:03:08,255 Speaker 3: Angus Taylor, were seen having dinner together in Canberra. The 55 00:03:08,295 --> 00:03:10,895 Speaker 3: dinner came after the Nationals decided to drop their net 56 00:03:11,015 --> 00:03:13,855 Speaker 3: zero target commitment and pressure from some in her own 57 00:03:13,895 --> 00:03:17,455 Speaker 3: party to do the same. Monash University politics lecturer Blair 58 00:03:17,495 --> 00:03:19,455 Speaker 3: Williams said it would be a terrible look for the 59 00:03:19,495 --> 00:03:22,415 Speaker 3: Liberal Party's first female leader to be dumped by a 60 00:03:22,415 --> 00:03:25,495 Speaker 3: bunch of men, saying women are watching and by choosing 61 00:03:25,575 --> 00:03:27,855 Speaker 3: a woman leader in Lee, they sent a message to 62 00:03:27,895 --> 00:03:30,454 Speaker 3: Australia to say we're paying attention to what you said 63 00:03:30,495 --> 00:03:32,815 Speaker 3: to us at the election, which is you need more 64 00:03:32,855 --> 00:03:36,175 Speaker 3: women and more focus on women's issues. Recent polling has 65 00:03:36,175 --> 00:03:39,335 Speaker 3: revealed support for the Liberals has plummeted to historic lows. 66 00:03:39,615 --> 00:03:43,495 Speaker 3: For the heaping pressure on the opposition leader. French authorities 67 00:03:43,535 --> 00:03:47,295 Speaker 3: have started proceedings to suspend online fast fashion retail Machine 68 00:03:47,495 --> 00:03:50,695 Speaker 3: days after weapons and childlike sex dolls were found being 69 00:03:50,735 --> 00:03:53,295 Speaker 3: sold on its site. The discovery of the dolls on 70 00:03:53,375 --> 00:03:57,855 Speaker 3: Shein's website by France's Consumer authority on Saturday sparked an outcry. 71 00:03:58,055 --> 00:04:00,895 Speaker 3: She In saying it had sanctioned the sellers and implemented 72 00:04:00,935 --> 00:04:03,655 Speaker 3: a full ban on sex dolls, saying they're committed to 73 00:04:03,735 --> 00:04:07,175 Speaker 3: working with French authorities to address their concerns. The company 74 00:04:07,215 --> 00:04:11,175 Speaker 3: says it independently decided to temporarily suspend its marketplace in 75 00:04:11,175 --> 00:04:14,855 Speaker 3: France to review and strengthen how third party sellers operate 76 00:04:14,895 --> 00:04:17,775 Speaker 3: on the site. Shean's website sells both its own brand 77 00:04:17,855 --> 00:04:21,015 Speaker 3: clothes and a vast array of products from third party sellers. 78 00:04:21,335 --> 00:04:23,855 Speaker 3: It was not immediately clear if the planned suspension would 79 00:04:23,855 --> 00:04:28,094 Speaker 3: affect Sheen's Paris store, which opened yesterday, Protesters bearing shame 80 00:04:28,135 --> 00:04:31,695 Speaker 3: on she and placards gathering outside before the opening, amid 81 00:04:31,775 --> 00:04:34,974 Speaker 3: fierce criticism of how its low cost business model works. 82 00:04:35,855 --> 00:04:38,495 Speaker 3: US singer Jelly Roll has called out a Sydney store 83 00:04:38,535 --> 00:04:41,455 Speaker 3: after he attempted to spend some downtime from performing doing 84 00:04:41,495 --> 00:04:44,495 Speaker 3: some retail therapy. The forty year old, who's been open 85 00:04:44,535 --> 00:04:47,535 Speaker 3: about his past drug addiction issues and jail time before 86 00:04:47,535 --> 00:04:51,535 Speaker 3: becoming a Grammy nominated country music style, posted online about 87 00:04:51,575 --> 00:04:53,615 Speaker 3: the interaction he had with Stuff at a high end 88 00:04:53,695 --> 00:04:54,455 Speaker 3: store in Sydney. 89 00:04:54,615 --> 00:04:55,575 Speaker 2: The Louis Vatan and. 90 00:04:55,615 --> 00:04:58,295 Speaker 4: Sedmon legitimately just treated us like we were going to 91 00:04:58,375 --> 00:04:59,295 Speaker 4: coming out around that place. 92 00:05:01,055 --> 00:05:03,534 Speaker 1: I have never been looked at more like a great 93 00:05:03,655 --> 00:05:05,215 Speaker 1: Listen the last time I was looked at like a 94 00:05:05,255 --> 00:05:08,455 Speaker 1: crim this bad I was an actual criminal, this man. 95 00:05:08,575 --> 00:05:10,695 Speaker 3: He didn't explain why he thinks they thought he was 96 00:05:10,695 --> 00:05:13,415 Speaker 3: a criminal, but commenters on the post suggested the Stuff 97 00:05:13,455 --> 00:05:16,655 Speaker 3: possibly judged him for his extensive face and neck tattoos. 98 00:05:17,015 --> 00:05:19,735 Speaker 3: Jelly Roll, who is currently touring Australia, sat down with 99 00:05:19,815 --> 00:05:22,775 Speaker 3: Muma Mia his own Kate Langbrook before his Sydney show. 100 00:05:23,175 --> 00:05:25,575 Speaker 3: You can hear that on a No Filter episode coming 101 00:05:25,655 --> 00:05:26,455 Speaker 3: up on Monday. 102 00:05:27,295 --> 00:05:30,615 Speaker 1: Thanks Clen. Next, why we're all of the sudden scared 103 00:05:30,655 --> 00:05:39,375 Speaker 1: to partner up publicly? It's the viral article. 104 00:05:39,175 --> 00:05:39,855 Speaker 4: Of the year. 105 00:05:40,495 --> 00:05:42,775 Speaker 1: Is having a boyfriend embarrassing? 106 00:05:43,735 --> 00:05:46,455 Speaker 4: For British Vogue? I wrote, is having a boyfriend embarrassing? 107 00:05:46,495 --> 00:05:46,695 Speaker 2: Now? 108 00:05:47,055 --> 00:05:48,534 Speaker 4: I know people have been in the headline they're like, 109 00:05:49,455 --> 00:05:52,135 Speaker 4: but listen. For this piece, I interviewed a bunch of women. 110 00:05:52,175 --> 00:05:54,855 Speaker 4: I spoke to them about why they hide their partners 111 00:05:54,855 --> 00:05:57,495 Speaker 4: on social media or they like post very inconspicuously about them. 112 00:05:57,655 --> 00:05:57,815 Speaker 2: You know. 113 00:05:57,895 --> 00:05:59,775 Speaker 4: Some people said it was about privacy and this sort 114 00:05:59,775 --> 00:06:02,775 Speaker 4: of unique special privacy that you only afford a romantic partner, 115 00:06:03,055 --> 00:06:05,695 Speaker 4: and this idea that like being in a relationship the 116 00:06:05,695 --> 00:06:07,974 Speaker 4: man and showcasing it to the world in and of 117 00:06:08,015 --> 00:06:10,815 Speaker 4: itself was an embarrassing thing to do. And that's what 118 00:06:10,935 --> 00:06:12,055 Speaker 4: I really wanted to get into. 119 00:06:12,935 --> 00:06:14,095 Speaker 1: I'm bidding Vogue. 120 00:06:14,295 --> 00:06:17,735 Speaker 5: I'm all for singles finally getting their time in the sun, 121 00:06:18,135 --> 00:06:21,455 Speaker 5: because God knows that when you're single, Relationships are rammed 122 00:06:21,495 --> 00:06:25,495 Speaker 5: down your throat constantly. Vogue is fashion, it's style, it's 123 00:06:25,655 --> 00:06:29,174 Speaker 5: you know, trend setting. It's not this kind of think piece. 124 00:06:29,375 --> 00:06:32,295 Speaker 2: In my opinion, they're following my lead and they're saying 125 00:06:33,135 --> 00:06:37,495 Speaker 2: that stay single, just when dating and Sydney couldn't get 126 00:06:37,575 --> 00:06:40,495 Speaker 2: any more brutal. Now it's embarrassing to have a boyfriend. 127 00:06:40,495 --> 00:06:43,534 Speaker 2: I'm not showing shade. I genuinely empathize with people who 128 00:06:43,575 --> 00:06:45,575 Speaker 2: may have given up on dating, because I know it's 129 00:06:45,615 --> 00:06:47,415 Speaker 2: a jungle out there. But I'm curious to know is 130 00:06:47,455 --> 00:06:49,895 Speaker 2: this about independence or is it day passing the trip? 131 00:06:51,295 --> 00:06:55,095 Speaker 1: The woman behind the words? British Vogue writer Shante Joseph 132 00:06:55,295 --> 00:06:58,615 Speaker 1: says there's no shame in falling in love, but there's 133 00:06:58,655 --> 00:07:02,735 Speaker 1: been a prominent shift away from romantic boyfriend spam and 134 00:07:03,135 --> 00:07:08,415 Speaker 1: a big move towards female independence. For years, women were 135 00:07:08,455 --> 00:07:12,535 Speaker 1: rewarded online for hard launching a man, even getting social 136 00:07:12,655 --> 00:07:16,815 Speaker 1: and sometimes financial rewards for public partnership. Now there's been 137 00:07:16,855 --> 00:07:21,015 Speaker 1: a shift. Women are clinking glasses, blurring faces and sharing 138 00:07:21,055 --> 00:07:25,895 Speaker 1: men's hands, but rarely sharing their entire partner. Sometimes it's 139 00:07:25,935 --> 00:07:29,895 Speaker 1: an emoji over a phase that engagement announcement or video 140 00:07:29,935 --> 00:07:33,695 Speaker 1: crop jobs to hide the boyfriend on wedding day. Upon 141 00:07:33,775 --> 00:07:38,015 Speaker 1: quick examination of my own socials, I can confirm whether 142 00:07:38,055 --> 00:07:40,735 Speaker 1: I'm meant to or not. My engagement announcement features my 143 00:07:40,855 --> 00:07:46,655 Speaker 1: beloved face obscured by my own hand. Am I the problem? Anyway? 144 00:07:46,775 --> 00:07:50,095 Speaker 1: Moving on? So what's going on here? Well, Chante says 145 00:07:50,215 --> 00:07:53,415 Speaker 1: it's all about living between two worlds where women want 146 00:07:53,455 --> 00:07:56,415 Speaker 1: the social benefits of partnership but also don't want to 147 00:07:56,415 --> 00:07:59,975 Speaker 1: see boyfriend obsessed or risk being cringed to a single 148 00:08:00,015 --> 00:08:04,535 Speaker 1: audience living their flexi independent life. The article delves into 149 00:08:04,575 --> 00:08:07,375 Speaker 1: the politics, and as usually happens when you post your 150 00:08:07,415 --> 00:08:11,335 Speaker 1: opinion online, Chantey was made with some less than pleasant criticism. 151 00:08:12,135 --> 00:08:14,415 Speaker 1: She of course doubled down on TikTok. 152 00:08:15,135 --> 00:08:18,335 Speaker 4: The days of a man being a prize has really changed. 153 00:08:18,535 --> 00:08:20,935 Speaker 4: It's really, really, really changed. And obviously this has come 154 00:08:20,975 --> 00:08:23,455 Speaker 4: from like just the empowerment of single women in general, 155 00:08:23,695 --> 00:08:26,615 Speaker 4: but also just how the trajectory of men and women are. 156 00:08:26,455 --> 00:08:27,855 Speaker 1: Going to completely opposite directions. 157 00:08:28,095 --> 00:08:31,135 Speaker 4: And now we're having to look at heax sexuality with 158 00:08:31,175 --> 00:08:34,895 Speaker 4: the political lens that we've looked at other sexualities, and 159 00:08:34,934 --> 00:08:37,135 Speaker 4: we really have to evaluate if we are a part 160 00:08:37,135 --> 00:08:38,695 Speaker 4: of this thing. What does it mean? 161 00:08:39,495 --> 00:08:43,055 Speaker 1: Ultimately? As Chante says, the script is shifting. Being partnered 162 00:08:43,095 --> 00:08:47,215 Speaker 1: no longer affirms your womanhood, and being single is increasingly coveted. 163 00:08:47,975 --> 00:08:49,895 Speaker 1: To find out more, I caught up with Chantey to 164 00:08:49,975 --> 00:08:53,135 Speaker 1: unpack the article that sent group chats around the world 165 00:08:53,295 --> 00:08:57,775 Speaker 1: into meltdown. Chantey, this might be the most viral piece 166 00:08:57,775 --> 00:09:00,775 Speaker 1: of writing in twenty twenty five. Why do you think 167 00:09:00,815 --> 00:09:02,415 Speaker 1: it struck such a raw nerve? 168 00:09:02,855 --> 00:09:05,655 Speaker 4: Our relationships are so central to our lives, right and 169 00:09:05,695 --> 00:09:09,015 Speaker 4: because of that, I think it makes singleness feel even 170 00:09:09,095 --> 00:09:11,335 Speaker 4: more poignant, especially if you like ask single, and if 171 00:09:11,335 --> 00:09:13,495 Speaker 4: you're a single woman, there is so much that I 172 00:09:13,495 --> 00:09:15,695 Speaker 4: think is like stacked up against you. And so I 173 00:09:15,695 --> 00:09:19,255 Speaker 4: think seeing it just the headline is having a boyfriend 174 00:09:19,255 --> 00:09:21,975 Speaker 4: embarrassing now is enough to like, you know, trigger something 175 00:09:22,054 --> 00:09:24,695 Speaker 4: in people who do see their relationships as like a 176 00:09:24,735 --> 00:09:27,255 Speaker 4: marker of their own success, and then also trigger something 177 00:09:27,255 --> 00:09:30,615 Speaker 4: in people who have been almost like discriminated against because 178 00:09:30,655 --> 00:09:32,615 Speaker 4: they are single as well. And so I think when 179 00:09:32,655 --> 00:09:35,615 Speaker 4: you have touch like a like a polarization across people 180 00:09:35,615 --> 00:09:38,214 Speaker 4: like that, something like this becomes so divisive Because I 181 00:09:38,215 --> 00:09:40,495 Speaker 4: would love to be like, you know, it's just everyone 182 00:09:40,535 --> 00:09:43,375 Speaker 4: being like this is amazing, But it's also people being like, 183 00:09:43,615 --> 00:09:45,775 Speaker 4: this is the worst thing I've ever read. You're a 184 00:09:46,015 --> 00:09:48,975 Speaker 4: terrible writer, Like it is so crazy, And I think 185 00:09:48,975 --> 00:09:52,935 Speaker 4: it's because on both ends people are just fuming. It's 186 00:09:53,015 --> 00:09:54,615 Speaker 4: just turned into something huge. 187 00:09:54,975 --> 00:09:57,814 Speaker 1: Let's go behind the headline, because people do that amazing 188 00:09:57,855 --> 00:10:01,135 Speaker 1: thing online where they read a headline either feel affirmed 189 00:10:01,335 --> 00:10:04,255 Speaker 1: or completely outraged. Don't bother to actually read the body 190 00:10:04,335 --> 00:10:06,535 Speaker 1: of work and then move on with life and maybe 191 00:10:06,575 --> 00:10:08,975 Speaker 1: post it and have a brand. What do you actually 192 00:10:09,015 --> 00:10:12,255 Speaker 1: mean by it when you say is having a boyfriend impursing? 193 00:10:13,175 --> 00:10:15,495 Speaker 4: So what I'm saying is that is this sort of 194 00:10:15,575 --> 00:10:20,255 Speaker 4: idea of the heterosexual romantic fantasy? Does it still hold weight? 195 00:10:20,615 --> 00:10:23,295 Speaker 4: Do people still kind of tether their value and their 196 00:10:23,335 --> 00:10:26,175 Speaker 4: worth to whether or not they are partnered, particularly partnered 197 00:10:26,175 --> 00:10:29,335 Speaker 4: with a man, And if not, why, And that is 198 00:10:29,335 --> 00:10:31,255 Speaker 4: what I really wanted to get into. What is it 199 00:10:31,295 --> 00:10:33,255 Speaker 4: about the state of men today and what is it 200 00:10:33,295 --> 00:10:36,855 Speaker 4: about the kind of collective awareness of women that is 201 00:10:36,935 --> 00:10:40,295 Speaker 4: making those romantic partnerships really difficult. One of the books 202 00:10:40,335 --> 00:10:43,574 Speaker 4: that I mentioned in this article is The Tragedy of Heterosexuality, 203 00:10:43,655 --> 00:10:46,295 Speaker 4: by Jane Wood, and I think it's something that every 204 00:10:46,335 --> 00:10:49,855 Speaker 4: single straight woman should read to really understand what we're 205 00:10:49,895 --> 00:10:52,095 Speaker 4: operating in. And one of the things that she talks 206 00:10:52,135 --> 00:10:54,815 Speaker 4: about is like referencing a lot of lesbian academics like 207 00:10:54,855 --> 00:10:56,935 Speaker 4: Adrian Rich who kind of said that we need to 208 00:10:56,935 --> 00:11:01,375 Speaker 4: look at heterosexuality as a political institution as opposed to 209 00:11:01,455 --> 00:11:04,735 Speaker 4: it just being this thing that we do that is indescribable. 210 00:11:04,775 --> 00:11:07,415 Speaker 4: You just have this random love for someone that you 211 00:11:07,495 --> 00:11:10,895 Speaker 4: just can't know, Like, let's actually interrogate these things, and 212 00:11:10,935 --> 00:11:13,135 Speaker 4: I think when you kind of peel back the layers 213 00:11:13,135 --> 00:11:15,215 Speaker 4: of that, you kind of see something that is rather sinister. 214 00:11:15,655 --> 00:11:17,495 Speaker 4: What I wanted to get at was the idea that 215 00:11:17,975 --> 00:11:21,135 Speaker 4: men and the kind of heteropatriarchy that we live under 216 00:11:21,575 --> 00:11:25,535 Speaker 4: has just for so long never benefited women, and now 217 00:11:25,535 --> 00:11:28,415 Speaker 4: it's getting to the point where it's just deeply unpopular. 218 00:11:28,695 --> 00:11:30,175 Speaker 4: And so as much as I think the world is 219 00:11:30,255 --> 00:11:33,334 Speaker 4: embarrassing is very light touch, I kind of wanted to 220 00:11:33,335 --> 00:11:36,495 Speaker 4: get this idea that women are essentially quote unquote more woke, 221 00:11:36,615 --> 00:11:39,175 Speaker 4: or we just know that when are becoming increasingly right wing, 222 00:11:39,415 --> 00:11:42,335 Speaker 4: women are becoming increasingly left wing. Now applied that same 223 00:11:42,375 --> 00:11:45,215 Speaker 4: logic to our romantic lives. It kind of just is 224 00:11:45,255 --> 00:11:47,735 Speaker 4: a bit weird. So I think a lot of women, 225 00:11:47,895 --> 00:11:51,975 Speaker 4: even though they deep, deep down desire these romantic relationships 226 00:11:51,975 --> 00:11:54,895 Speaker 4: with men, it sometimes comes at I think a bit 227 00:11:54,935 --> 00:11:57,895 Speaker 4: of a personal cost. And that's to your values, your beliefs, 228 00:11:58,135 --> 00:12:00,935 Speaker 4: your politics. And so when I'm saying, oh, is having 229 00:12:00,935 --> 00:12:03,295 Speaker 4: a boyfriend embarrassing? Now, it's like, have we got to 230 00:12:03,335 --> 00:12:06,935 Speaker 4: a point where we are so aware of this structure 231 00:12:06,935 --> 00:12:09,295 Speaker 4: that we're living under that now dating men just kind 232 00:12:09,335 --> 00:12:11,175 Speaker 4: of feels wrong almost. 233 00:12:11,935 --> 00:12:14,814 Speaker 1: I feel like you've definitely ruffled feathers because if you 234 00:12:14,855 --> 00:12:17,535 Speaker 1: want to call it embarrassing and like that maybe trivializes 235 00:12:17,575 --> 00:12:19,415 Speaker 1: it a little bit. But what you're saying in essence, 236 00:12:19,415 --> 00:12:21,975 Speaker 1: there is like for a lot of women who have 237 00:12:22,054 --> 00:12:24,935 Speaker 1: attached themselves, whether they realize or not so deeply to 238 00:12:25,575 --> 00:12:28,015 Speaker 1: their identity being part of in a partnership or with 239 00:12:28,095 --> 00:12:31,295 Speaker 1: their partner, putting their partner out on display and then 240 00:12:31,655 --> 00:12:34,054 Speaker 1: putting that side by side. Like he said, there are 241 00:12:34,054 --> 00:12:36,095 Speaker 1: political views that going the other way. People are being 242 00:12:36,095 --> 00:12:39,215 Speaker 1: split off and isolated in so many different directions that 243 00:12:39,375 --> 00:12:42,934 Speaker 1: really shatters a lot of people's whole worldview and their 244 00:12:42,975 --> 00:12:46,335 Speaker 1: identity of themselves too. What's the reaction been like on 245 00:12:46,375 --> 00:12:49,375 Speaker 1: both sides, because I imagine for everyone who is up 246 00:12:49,375 --> 00:12:51,574 Speaker 1: in arms about it, there's also people who feel totally 247 00:12:51,615 --> 00:12:52,295 Speaker 1: seen and heard. 248 00:12:52,895 --> 00:12:55,335 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, there are lots of single women who 249 00:12:55,415 --> 00:12:59,615 Speaker 4: are reading this and they genuinely feel so affirmed by it, 250 00:12:59,695 --> 00:13:01,615 Speaker 4: do you know what I mean? But so long they've 251 00:13:01,655 --> 00:13:03,575 Speaker 4: kind of spent their lives, whether it's kind of in 252 00:13:03,655 --> 00:13:06,655 Speaker 4: the media, in the public eye, denigrate for their singleness. 253 00:13:06,655 --> 00:13:08,215 Speaker 4: And one of the things I talk about is that 254 00:13:08,215 --> 00:13:11,055 Speaker 4: the fact people are obsessed with single women who were dating, 255 00:13:11,095 --> 00:13:13,495 Speaker 4: what we're doing, why we're single, what we could be 256 00:13:13,535 --> 00:13:16,055 Speaker 4: doing differently, what we'd lack? Why does no one want us? 257 00:13:16,135 --> 00:13:17,215 Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean? It's just, you know, 258 00:13:17,215 --> 00:13:20,015 Speaker 4: there are whole books, films, TV shows just centered around 259 00:13:20,054 --> 00:13:23,135 Speaker 4: like this, this single female identity, and it's a trope, 260 00:13:23,135 --> 00:13:25,655 Speaker 4: it's a stereotype. And I think when that has for 261 00:13:25,695 --> 00:13:27,415 Speaker 4: so long has been the perception of your identity in 262 00:13:27,455 --> 00:13:29,934 Speaker 4: the media, when someone comes along and says, actually, do 263 00:13:29,975 --> 00:13:32,775 Speaker 4: you know what, right now, in this political climate, being 264 00:13:32,815 --> 00:13:35,375 Speaker 4: a single woman, a single straight woman is actually low 265 00:13:35,415 --> 00:13:38,455 Speaker 4: key a flex It's like, oh my god, Like finally, 266 00:13:38,535 --> 00:13:41,415 Speaker 4: something like validates me and doesn't make me feel bad 267 00:13:41,495 --> 00:13:44,255 Speaker 4: for my situation. And then obviously on the other side 268 00:13:44,255 --> 00:13:45,655 Speaker 4: of that, you kind of have a lot of women 269 00:13:45,695 --> 00:13:48,255 Speaker 4: who are like, I love my boyfriend. My boyfriend's great, 270 00:13:48,455 --> 00:13:50,615 Speaker 4: my boyfriend's not embarrassing. How can you say that about 271 00:13:50,615 --> 00:13:52,454 Speaker 4: my boyfriend. I've been married for ten years. I love 272 00:13:52,495 --> 00:13:55,015 Speaker 4: my husband. And it's like, girl, what do you want 273 00:13:55,054 --> 00:13:56,775 Speaker 4: me to do about that? I don't care, do you 274 00:13:56,815 --> 00:13:59,575 Speaker 4: know what I mean? I'm so glad you like your husband, 275 00:13:59,575 --> 00:14:02,335 Speaker 4: but that doesn't take away from the bigger picture. And 276 00:14:02,375 --> 00:14:05,415 Speaker 4: I think there is this need to personalize it. It's like, oh, 277 00:14:06,015 --> 00:14:08,855 Speaker 4: my husband is so nice to me, like he could 278 00:14:08,895 --> 00:14:11,535 Speaker 4: never be embarrassing. But it isn't really about your husband. 279 00:14:11,775 --> 00:14:14,655 Speaker 4: It's just about the state of men and women in general. 280 00:14:15,375 --> 00:14:17,215 Speaker 1: I love that there's a through line in the Peanut 281 00:14:17,255 --> 00:14:19,255 Speaker 1: Gallery there of not all men and it's like, yeah, 282 00:14:19,255 --> 00:14:21,815 Speaker 1: we're not saying all men like, for God's sake, that's 283 00:14:21,855 --> 00:14:23,895 Speaker 1: not actually the point of the article. 284 00:14:23,895 --> 00:14:27,215 Speaker 4: Literally, but also we understand not all men like in 285 00:14:27,415 --> 00:14:29,775 Speaker 4: every other context, and everyone hates it, you know, when 286 00:14:29,775 --> 00:14:31,655 Speaker 4: we're talking about things and you say not all men like, 287 00:14:31,975 --> 00:14:34,295 Speaker 4: people get so rouled up. But for some reason in 288 00:14:34,295 --> 00:14:37,975 Speaker 4: this case when it involves your boyfriend, Oh oh, now 289 00:14:37,975 --> 00:14:39,055 Speaker 4: you can't say anything, do you. 290 00:14:39,055 --> 00:14:39,495 Speaker 3: Know what I mean? 291 00:14:39,535 --> 00:14:42,695 Speaker 4: But I also just think it's because, like online a 292 00:14:42,775 --> 00:14:45,495 Speaker 4: lot of women are coming to share their like dating 293 00:14:45,535 --> 00:14:48,735 Speaker 4: horror stories, dating app horror stories, just like you know, 294 00:14:48,815 --> 00:14:51,015 Speaker 4: men that they thought they would spend their lives with. 295 00:14:51,095 --> 00:14:52,815 Speaker 4: And then one Tuesday he woke up and was like, oh, 296 00:14:52,815 --> 00:14:53,975 Speaker 4: by the way, I've be cheeing on you of like 297 00:14:54,015 --> 00:14:56,615 Speaker 4: twenty people eever, Like, we just keep seeing the most 298 00:14:56,655 --> 00:14:59,495 Speaker 4: horroring stories ever, and we're also aware of it now, 299 00:14:59,575 --> 00:15:02,335 Speaker 4: Like the kind of shine on that romantic partnership is 300 00:15:02,415 --> 00:15:05,015 Speaker 4: really starting to chip away, and it no longer feels 301 00:15:05,015 --> 00:15:07,055 Speaker 4: aspiration not to be in a relationship because it just 302 00:15:07,135 --> 00:15:10,375 Speaker 4: feels like this could go anywhere at any time. It's 303 00:15:10,415 --> 00:15:13,615 Speaker 4: becoming uncomfortable for you know, people who desire relationships, because 304 00:15:13,615 --> 00:15:15,455 Speaker 4: a lot of people who desperately want to be in 305 00:15:15,455 --> 00:15:17,895 Speaker 4: a relationship are reading this and they're feeling like, well, 306 00:15:18,295 --> 00:15:19,935 Speaker 4: you know, this is something I've always wanted, why is 307 00:15:20,015 --> 00:15:22,015 Speaker 4: it now embarrassing? And you know people who are in 308 00:15:22,055 --> 00:15:23,855 Speaker 4: relationships feel like really attacked by. 309 00:15:23,735 --> 00:15:25,895 Speaker 1: It too, So is the shift real? 310 00:15:25,935 --> 00:15:26,095 Speaker 4: Then? 311 00:15:26,175 --> 00:15:28,335 Speaker 1: Like what did you discover while you were researching for 312 00:15:28,415 --> 00:15:31,175 Speaker 1: this piece? You put a call out on your own Instagram. 313 00:15:31,295 --> 00:15:32,855 Speaker 1: What was coming back into your inbox? 314 00:15:33,215 --> 00:15:35,295 Speaker 4: Oh my god, it was crazy. I've got like all 315 00:15:35,295 --> 00:15:37,175 Speaker 4: of my screenshots and stuff. I'm definitely going to maybe 316 00:15:37,175 --> 00:15:39,215 Speaker 4: post that at some point, and obviously anonymious people so 317 00:15:39,215 --> 00:15:41,735 Speaker 4: they don't feel like exposed. But it did feel like 318 00:15:41,775 --> 00:15:44,215 Speaker 4: there was definitely a shift, and so I kind of, yeah, 319 00:15:44,215 --> 00:15:46,855 Speaker 4: I got this idea that a lot of women online 320 00:15:47,095 --> 00:15:48,935 Speaker 4: were kind of seeking to be in community with others 321 00:15:48,975 --> 00:15:51,095 Speaker 4: who are like them. And then I also got this 322 00:15:51,135 --> 00:15:52,895 Speaker 4: feeling online that a lot of women who were in 323 00:15:52,975 --> 00:15:56,015 Speaker 4: relationships were scared that if I started posting my partner, 324 00:15:56,415 --> 00:15:58,935 Speaker 4: a lot of people will believe that that is my identity. 325 00:15:59,255 --> 00:16:00,455 Speaker 4: Now I don't want to do that. I don't want 326 00:16:00,455 --> 00:16:03,335 Speaker 4: to be defined by my romantic relationship. And so I 327 00:16:03,375 --> 00:16:06,135 Speaker 4: just found it interesting that it became such a consuming 328 00:16:06,215 --> 00:16:08,815 Speaker 4: thing for people that they had to actively make the 329 00:16:08,855 --> 00:16:11,135 Speaker 4: effort to not put it out there. And then also 330 00:16:11,215 --> 00:16:13,615 Speaker 4: I kind of a lot of conversations were bubbling. I 331 00:16:13,615 --> 00:16:15,735 Speaker 4: remember speaking to one girl who was talking about how 332 00:16:15,775 --> 00:16:18,735 Speaker 4: she had recently gone to a relationship and you know, 333 00:16:18,775 --> 00:16:20,335 Speaker 4: her and her friend used to be like, oh, you know, 334 00:16:20,375 --> 00:16:21,775 Speaker 4: men are trash her hair, and it used to be 335 00:16:21,775 --> 00:16:23,775 Speaker 4: this kind of thing between them. So when they bonded 336 00:16:23,815 --> 00:16:26,135 Speaker 4: over as soon as you got into relationship, that changed 337 00:16:26,415 --> 00:16:27,615 Speaker 4: and she was like to me, I just kind of 338 00:16:27,655 --> 00:16:29,575 Speaker 4: feel like my friend is not supporting me, and I 339 00:16:29,575 --> 00:16:31,455 Speaker 4: don't think she approves of my relationship and I think 340 00:16:31,495 --> 00:16:34,055 Speaker 4: she respects me less because of it. But it's just 341 00:16:34,095 --> 00:16:35,975 Speaker 4: because they had a relationship that was built on this 342 00:16:36,135 --> 00:16:39,055 Speaker 4: like shared mistrust for men, and now you're in a 343 00:16:39,095 --> 00:16:41,175 Speaker 4: relationship with a man and this change your dynamics. So I 344 00:16:41,215 --> 00:16:43,735 Speaker 4: think it is like even in not interpersonal relationships, like 345 00:16:43,815 --> 00:16:47,095 Speaker 4: really creating a shift. I think often we always want 346 00:16:47,135 --> 00:16:49,255 Speaker 4: to bold this down to jealousy. It's because you're jealous. 347 00:16:49,295 --> 00:16:50,935 Speaker 4: These women are jealous. They're not happy for you because 348 00:16:50,935 --> 00:16:52,975 Speaker 4: they're jealous and they want what you have. I just 349 00:16:53,055 --> 00:16:54,935 Speaker 4: kind of think the single women are jealous of me. 350 00:16:55,015 --> 00:16:58,815 Speaker 4: Trope is so boring. We actually start to really investigate 351 00:16:58,855 --> 00:17:01,215 Speaker 4: head sexuality and where we are at politically as women, 352 00:17:01,255 --> 00:17:03,135 Speaker 4: and what we believe and what we tolerate and what 353 00:17:03,175 --> 00:17:06,495 Speaker 4: we observe. You just can't call everyone jealous, like there 354 00:17:06,534 --> 00:17:07,815 Speaker 4: has to be something else there. 355 00:17:08,335 --> 00:17:10,294 Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you bring that up, because jealousy is 356 00:17:10,334 --> 00:17:12,415 Speaker 1: one trope that has definitely played out. But then there's 357 00:17:12,455 --> 00:17:15,534 Speaker 1: also the bitter trope, which is a lot of criticism 358 00:17:15,614 --> 00:17:18,574 Speaker 1: from this article that you've attracted. People are saying that 359 00:17:18,655 --> 00:17:22,095 Speaker 1: it's bitter, it's a bitter outlook on love and relationships, 360 00:17:22,094 --> 00:17:25,134 Speaker 1: and that it potentially even divides men and women even further. 361 00:17:25,215 --> 00:17:26,375 Speaker 1: What do you have to say to that? 362 00:17:26,854 --> 00:17:30,095 Speaker 4: I just think you are board man. Come on, why 363 00:17:30,175 --> 00:17:32,934 Speaker 4: is everyone so scared of critical thinking? Like why is 364 00:17:32,975 --> 00:17:36,655 Speaker 4: everyone petrified of like just stepping a little bit outside 365 00:17:36,695 --> 00:17:38,734 Speaker 4: of the norms. And it's really interesting because obviously I 366 00:17:38,814 --> 00:17:41,094 Speaker 4: talk a lot about reading Jane Ward, but reading a 367 00:17:41,094 --> 00:17:44,215 Speaker 4: lot of like radical feminists, lesbians and like really getting 368 00:17:44,215 --> 00:17:47,455 Speaker 4: into their observations of heat sexuality, and that's really informed 369 00:17:47,494 --> 00:17:50,014 Speaker 4: my own views as well. Yes, I'm a straight woman, 370 00:17:50,094 --> 00:17:51,895 Speaker 4: and a lot of this stuff is just not coming 371 00:17:51,895 --> 00:17:53,734 Speaker 4: from my brain. A lot of this stuff has been studied, 372 00:17:53,774 --> 00:17:56,254 Speaker 4: has been observed, has been written about, and I'm just 373 00:17:56,334 --> 00:17:58,734 Speaker 4: reading what other people are observing and I'm like, gosh, 374 00:17:58,734 --> 00:18:01,494 Speaker 4: this is so true. There is so much about our 375 00:18:01,534 --> 00:18:04,254 Speaker 4: relationships that we actually just tolerate. You know, I talk 376 00:18:04,294 --> 00:18:07,014 Speaker 4: about hetero fatalism in this article, and this idea of 377 00:18:07,294 --> 00:18:10,175 Speaker 4: women will constantly complain about the misogyny that they face 378 00:18:10,455 --> 00:18:13,455 Speaker 4: from men, sexism from men, how much they dislike and 379 00:18:13,494 --> 00:18:17,175 Speaker 4: distrust men, and even though they feel this way, they 380 00:18:17,215 --> 00:18:19,574 Speaker 4: still date, and they still marry, and they still you know, 381 00:18:19,655 --> 00:18:22,374 Speaker 4: end up with men. And it's like, we complain about it, 382 00:18:22,375 --> 00:18:24,734 Speaker 4: but we don't actively want to change it because we're 383 00:18:24,774 --> 00:18:26,695 Speaker 4: too comfortable with it, and so much so that it's 384 00:18:26,695 --> 00:18:29,935 Speaker 4: become just a part of the heterosexual experience. You know. Oh, 385 00:18:29,975 --> 00:18:32,214 Speaker 4: you know, you're married to a man and you're cooking 386 00:18:32,215 --> 00:18:33,895 Speaker 4: and cleaning and taking care of the baby, and he's 387 00:18:33,935 --> 00:18:36,654 Speaker 4: playing games, and you know this weird stuff that we 388 00:18:36,734 --> 00:18:39,215 Speaker 4: think is so funny. It's like, oh, dad's taking care 389 00:18:39,415 --> 00:18:42,814 Speaker 4: of the kids, the babies in the microwave. Again, what 390 00:18:42,895 --> 00:18:46,055 Speaker 4: the hell, guys, this is not normal. This is not 391 00:18:46,135 --> 00:18:49,494 Speaker 4: normal for us to infantalize men, particularly in heterosexual relationships, 392 00:18:49,494 --> 00:18:52,655 Speaker 4: and that unequal distribution of like labor in the home, 393 00:18:52,774 --> 00:18:55,574 Speaker 4: all of this stuff like Okay, I'm bitter, i'm jealous, 394 00:18:55,655 --> 00:18:59,935 Speaker 4: I'm whatever, But really investigate everything that we have considered 395 00:18:59,975 --> 00:19:03,254 Speaker 4: normal in our romantic relationships with men, and you start 396 00:19:03,294 --> 00:19:06,854 Speaker 4: to realize that, no, this is and so I think 397 00:19:06,935 --> 00:19:09,454 Speaker 4: it's easier to call me bitter, it's easier to call 398 00:19:09,494 --> 00:19:11,855 Speaker 4: me jealous than it is for people to really investigate 399 00:19:12,135 --> 00:19:15,294 Speaker 4: the ways in which they are continuing patriarchy and subjugation 400 00:19:15,415 --> 00:19:17,135 Speaker 4: in their romantic relationships with men. 401 00:19:18,094 --> 00:19:20,414 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean to call you bitter and jealous 402 00:19:20,455 --> 00:19:22,535 Speaker 1: on one hand, but on the other hand, it's like, well, 403 00:19:22,574 --> 00:19:24,375 Speaker 1: single and free, right right. 404 00:19:24,375 --> 00:19:25,014 Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean? 405 00:19:25,054 --> 00:19:25,134 Speaker 2: Like? 406 00:19:25,135 --> 00:19:27,375 Speaker 4: And I'm okay, And I'm not saying you know, I'm 407 00:19:27,455 --> 00:19:29,534 Speaker 4: never gonna date anyone, of course I am. But what 408 00:19:29,614 --> 00:19:32,135 Speaker 4: I am never going to do. I Am never going 409 00:19:32,135 --> 00:19:34,094 Speaker 4: to date a man and be like I've got one 410 00:19:34,135 --> 00:19:36,054 Speaker 4: of the good ones. It's he's one of the last 411 00:19:36,094 --> 00:19:38,055 Speaker 4: good men. My man is not like any of these 412 00:19:38,054 --> 00:19:40,734 Speaker 4: other men, because you can't be like all men are trash. 413 00:19:40,774 --> 00:19:43,335 Speaker 4: Got man of trash, but not my man. Honey, I 414 00:19:43,375 --> 00:19:46,014 Speaker 4: have listen, I have a bridge to Sorry, this is crazy. 415 00:19:46,254 --> 00:19:48,175 Speaker 4: You know, I will never in my life turn around 416 00:19:48,215 --> 00:19:51,134 Speaker 4: and be like this man is not capable of any harm. 417 00:19:51,254 --> 00:19:53,334 Speaker 4: He is so great and so perfect, and he's not 418 00:19:53,415 --> 00:19:55,095 Speaker 4: like these other men because one thing a man will 419 00:19:55,135 --> 00:19:56,534 Speaker 4: do is let you down. 420 00:19:56,574 --> 00:20:00,295 Speaker 1: Honey, Chantai, you've mentioned that that you're currently single, You've 421 00:20:00,294 --> 00:20:02,694 Speaker 1: been pondering this idea of what it is to be 422 00:20:02,734 --> 00:20:05,215 Speaker 1: in a relationship in twenty twenty five and to broadcast 423 00:20:05,254 --> 00:20:06,934 Speaker 1: it to the world. Do you think that this is 424 00:20:06,975 --> 00:20:08,975 Speaker 1: going to come up for you in a dating context 425 00:20:09,014 --> 00:20:09,574 Speaker 1: in the future. 426 00:20:09,814 --> 00:20:12,014 Speaker 4: Absolutely. The thing is, I wasn't even talking to some 427 00:20:12,054 --> 00:20:13,894 Speaker 4: guy the other day. I sent him an article. 428 00:20:13,935 --> 00:20:14,414 Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean? 429 00:20:14,695 --> 00:20:17,374 Speaker 4: I am who I am. I stand ten toes down 430 00:20:17,534 --> 00:20:20,095 Speaker 4: right on everything I believe in. And it's like, if 431 00:20:20,135 --> 00:20:22,574 Speaker 4: you read what I write and you think, oh, I 432 00:20:22,614 --> 00:20:24,494 Speaker 4: can't be of this person, I can't date this person, 433 00:20:24,574 --> 00:20:26,455 Speaker 4: do you know what? Fine, because I'm never going to 434 00:20:26,534 --> 00:20:28,615 Speaker 4: not hold these beliefs. So I kind of just feel 435 00:20:28,695 --> 00:20:30,494 Speaker 4: like this what one hundred percent come up for me 436 00:20:30,534 --> 00:20:32,094 Speaker 4: in the day in context, and people will want to 437 00:20:32,135 --> 00:20:34,774 Speaker 4: ask me about it, and that's fine. You know, it's 438 00:20:34,814 --> 00:20:37,774 Speaker 4: actually okay, And if it makes them uncomfortable, cool, But 439 00:20:37,895 --> 00:20:40,294 Speaker 4: I just I believe so strongly in what I believe, 440 00:20:40,334 --> 00:20:42,215 Speaker 4: and I have to live my wraps, you know, as 441 00:20:42,254 --> 00:20:44,814 Speaker 4: the youth say. So I'm okay with that. 442 00:20:45,494 --> 00:20:47,855 Speaker 1: The women who have read your article and are now 443 00:20:47,895 --> 00:20:51,215 Speaker 1: having like an existential crisis about what they're supposed to 444 00:20:51,215 --> 00:20:55,134 Speaker 1: do and put on their Instagram feeds. Should they still 445 00:20:55,135 --> 00:20:58,175 Speaker 1: be allowed to like celebrate their boyfriends like a die 446 00:20:58,175 --> 00:20:59,975 Speaker 1: on social media? Time out? Do we lock them in 447 00:21:00,014 --> 00:21:01,695 Speaker 1: a cup? Or how do we strike the balance? 448 00:21:02,054 --> 00:21:02,534 Speaker 2: Do you know what? 449 00:21:02,695 --> 00:21:05,414 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's so tough because I don't want to dictate 450 00:21:05,534 --> 00:21:07,614 Speaker 4: people how they should live their life. But I just 451 00:21:07,655 --> 00:21:10,014 Speaker 4: think there's an awareness that needs to be had and 452 00:21:10,054 --> 00:21:11,814 Speaker 4: I don't want them to like post their boyfriend and 453 00:21:11,814 --> 00:21:13,734 Speaker 4: feel like, oh my god, is everyone judging me? Like 454 00:21:13,814 --> 00:21:15,415 Speaker 4: if you're going to post your man, post your man. 455 00:21:15,494 --> 00:21:18,014 Speaker 4: I think my beef was more with kind of people 456 00:21:18,054 --> 00:21:21,574 Speaker 4: who wanted to post their boyfriend but his head was 457 00:21:21,655 --> 00:21:24,415 Speaker 4: disappeared from the picture or there was like an emoji 458 00:21:24,574 --> 00:21:27,814 Speaker 4: over his face, or you know, it's your proposal video 459 00:21:27,935 --> 00:21:30,655 Speaker 4: and every angle is like you can't see his face, 460 00:21:30,695 --> 00:21:32,774 Speaker 4: Like why do you want to do that? You want 461 00:21:32,895 --> 00:21:35,815 Speaker 4: the benefit, you want the cloud that comes with being 462 00:21:35,814 --> 00:21:38,374 Speaker 4: in a relationship, but you actually don't want to really 463 00:21:38,375 --> 00:21:40,335 Speaker 4: expose yourself because you don't want the man to see 464 00:21:40,334 --> 00:21:43,054 Speaker 4: this world for whatever reason. And I kind of just think, 465 00:21:43,294 --> 00:21:45,854 Speaker 4: just be you, do you if you want to post 466 00:21:45,854 --> 00:21:47,854 Speaker 4: post Like, I'm not saying don't post your boyfriend, but 467 00:21:47,895 --> 00:21:51,775 Speaker 4: I just wanted to have a conversation about our relationships, 468 00:21:51,854 --> 00:21:54,054 Speaker 4: what we see as normal, what we see is acceptable, 469 00:21:54,215 --> 00:21:57,975 Speaker 4: and really question and challenge that so guys don't freak out. 470 00:21:58,054 --> 00:21:59,975 Speaker 4: And you know, everyone's like, I broke up with my boyfriend, 471 00:22:00,014 --> 00:22:04,614 Speaker 4: and I'm like, if that's what you wanted to do, why, Like, 472 00:22:04,734 --> 00:22:06,294 Speaker 4: I obviously I love it for them, I love for 473 00:22:06,334 --> 00:22:08,574 Speaker 4: the girl is I obviously lean into it so much 474 00:22:08,614 --> 00:22:10,814 Speaker 4: because it makes people so angry, and I just I 475 00:22:10,854 --> 00:22:12,494 Speaker 4: think I just own a bit of a troll. I 476 00:22:12,574 --> 00:22:14,774 Speaker 4: kind of want women in relationships to demand more of 477 00:22:14,814 --> 00:22:17,094 Speaker 4: the men that they date. What are the ways in 478 00:22:17,135 --> 00:22:19,935 Speaker 4: which you are accepting less than you know you should be? 479 00:22:20,415 --> 00:22:23,014 Speaker 4: And just know that you are kind of allowing men 480 00:22:23,054 --> 00:22:25,254 Speaker 4: to get away with the craziness that they've been doing 481 00:22:25,254 --> 00:22:28,054 Speaker 4: for so long. So just be better, do better, you know, 482 00:22:28,135 --> 00:22:28,655 Speaker 4: don't chet. 483 00:22:31,014 --> 00:22:33,094 Speaker 1: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with 484 00:22:33,175 --> 00:22:35,974 Speaker 1: us today. The Quikie is produced by me Taylor Strano, 485 00:22:36,215 --> 00:22:40,095 Speaker 1: Lario Brophy, and Cleo Murphy, with audio production by lou Hill. 486 00:22:45,774 --> 00:22:48,414 Speaker 3: Mum and May Acknowledges, the traditional owners of land and 487 00:22:48,455 --> 00:22:50,615 Speaker 3: waters that this podcast is recorded on.