Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to
Speaker 2: Mama Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking
Speaker 2: about on Wednesday, the eleventh of September. I'm Holly Wainwright.
Speaker 1: I'm Mea Friedman, and I'm recording remotely today in case
Speaker 1: I sound a little bit different to normal, because I'm
Speaker 1: on the road doing our and your upfronts where we
Speaker 1: talk about all the exciting things we've got coming up
Speaker 1: at Mamma Mia next year to all out advertisers. But
Speaker 1: there was no way I was going to miss weighing
Speaker 1: in on this episode. Between the Kate Middleton video and
Speaker 1: the debate, I'm all in.
Speaker 3: That's one of the biggest episodes of the year.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 3: I am Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2: And on the show today, as Maya has alluded to Trump, Paris,
Speaker 2: Dogs and Cats and Taylor, we watched the first and
Speaker 2: probably only US presidential debate so that you don't have to. Also,
Speaker 2: the very happy announcement sees William and Kate take a
Speaker 2: pr pivot straight out of the Harry and Meghan playbook,
Speaker 2: and it looks like the social media band that kids
Speaker 2: is actually going to happen. Should we be celebrating or panicking?
Speaker 2: But first, Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3: In case you missed it, there is a photo circulating
Speaker 3: of Matt Damon and Jennifer Lopez that I will argue
Speaker 3: is one of the most iconic images of our lifetime.
Speaker 2: I agree with you, Jesse, I agree with you. I
Speaker 2: was so excited when I saw that. Our group chat immediately,
Speaker 2: I'm like, look at this.
Speaker 3: This week, Damon and Lopez appeared on the red carpet
Speaker 3: for the premiere of Unstoppable at the Toronto International Film.
Speaker 1: First, can we talk about what she was wearing?
Speaker 3: Yes, Mea, obviously, that is the first point on the agenda.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you.
Speaker 3: We should say that the film was made by Damon
Speaker 3: as production company, it stars Lopez.
Speaker 1: I want to that's why he was there.
Speaker 2: Maya. You have to let the woman give some context
Speaker 2: to wear this image.
Speaker 3: Of all time unpacked the dress.
Speaker 1: Please, it is the best revenge dress since Diana's dress
Speaker 1: that she wore On the night that Charles's interview went
Speaker 1: to air, where he talked about his relationship with Camille.
Speaker 1: I remember she wore that navy blue dress. We just
Speaker 1: saw it replicated on the crown with Elizabeth Tickie anyway,
Speaker 1: on the red carpet. I just could talk about this
Speaker 1: for a long time. She was wearing this dress. It
Speaker 1: was clear she was naked underneath because it had like
Speaker 1: these bows all the way down. It'll become one of
Speaker 1: the most iconic dresses, I think. But what's really interesting
Speaker 1: about it that only real experts will have noticed, is
Speaker 1: that it very clearly showed the place on her body
Speaker 1: under her left breast where she had matching tattoos with Ben.
Speaker 1: She's had it removed.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't correct you, but it's her right breast.
Speaker 1: No, I think it's her left.
Speaker 3: It is her right breast. Now, do you want to describe.
Speaker 1: The tattoo anyway? I can't remember what it was. It
Speaker 1: was some symbol and it's not there anymore. Is the
Speaker 1: most important thing to take away from this whole conversation? Anyway,
Speaker 1: continue he covered it up with makeup.
Speaker 3: She did, and it was an infinity symbol with Jennifer
Speaker 3: and Ben written and it was covered up. And it
Speaker 3: appears that she did wear that dress so that she
Speaker 3: could cover up her tattoo. Now to the photo.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 3: At the after party, Damon and Lopez were photographed deep
Speaker 3: in conversation. They are holding hands, Lopez appears to be talking,
Speaker 3: and Damon has his head bowed as though to say,
Speaker 3: I've been talking about this fucking relationship for twenty years
Speaker 3: and I have had enough.
Speaker 1: I think we've all been Matt Damon in that photo.
Speaker 3: Yes we have.
Speaker 2: I want I've been both the people in that photo.
Speaker 3: I want Holly to lip read this still image. Holly,
Speaker 3: what are they saying? Because some are saying that they're
Speaker 3: praying together because they have their heads. That is obviously incorrect.
Speaker 1: I'll come on.
Speaker 2: You know sometimes you have to do penance for your
Speaker 2: bad friends. Yeah, yeah, right, And he is in this photo.
Speaker 2: My lipreading take is he's like, I know, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: he's a dick. What can I say? And she's like
Speaker 2: and another thing. He's like, I know, I'm sorry, I
Speaker 2: love him, but he's a dick. What can I say?
Speaker 2: And she just keeps going because she's had a champagne
Speaker 2: and she's like, I just there's another and he's like,
Speaker 2: I know, I'm sorry, he's a dick. What could I say?
Speaker 2: That's what I think.
Speaker 3: Is happening may or what do you think they're saying
Speaker 3: to each other.
Speaker 1: I think they're both someone who really loved Benefwick, and
Speaker 1: I think that you know when you love someone, but
Speaker 1: you also just watch them get in their own way.
Speaker 1: And he's obviously done something and behaved in a way
Speaker 1: that they're both really familiar with. And I think what's
Speaker 1: really important in all the sort of leaks, because of
Speaker 1: course she's caught so much heat for this breakup, including
Speaker 1: on this podcast about.
Speaker 2: From you, I'd say Jesse and I have been defending her.
Speaker 1: I was hoping we could gloss over that, but she
Speaker 1: has copped a lot of heat about and particularly on
Speaker 1: the internet also here, but about that she's too much,
Speaker 1: she was too hungry for attention, she suppose their life,
Speaker 1: And I think what's really clear is that that was
Speaker 1: obviously put out by his camp preemptively or maybe the
Speaker 1: just that's what we all thought because it's the way
Speaker 1: that everyone defaults to blaming the woman. But what's really
Speaker 1: interesting about after this breakup, she has been seen with
Speaker 1: his kids. She clearly remains close and has a quarterial
Speaker 1: relationship with his ex wife because she's attended Jennifer Garner
Speaker 1: and Ben Affleck's kids events, which if they weren't close,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't happen. And now here she is holding hands
Speaker 1: almost in prayer with his best friend of his whole life.
Speaker 1: So clearly she's not the one that fault here.
Speaker 3: I completely agree. I think he is definitely being a.
Speaker 1: Part I think he's cheated, and he's back on the
Speaker 1: gear like that's what I think.
Speaker 2: Please? Can I make it really clear that this is
Speaker 2: wild speculation and that none of us have any eye
Speaker 2: can I that's true?
Speaker 3: The other thing I've been thinking when I'm seeing these
Speaker 3: images is I'm imagining text exchange between Ben and Matt,
Speaker 3: because now Ben's going, Matt, I have seen the photos
Speaker 3: and I need to know what you've discussed. And Matt said,
Speaker 3: you put me in that situation. I didn't want to
Speaker 3: be at the after party talking to a crying jin
Speaker 3: but you didn't come, and he's like, what did you say?
Speaker 3: And then they're going back and forth, back and forth.
Speaker 3: I think it's very uncomfortable between the two men right now.
Speaker 1: It's great.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry it's great, but it's great.
Speaker 4: It is very well known that Donald Trump is weak
Speaker 4: and wrong. Nowhere in America is a woman carrying a
Speaker 4: pregnancy to term and asking for an abortion that is
Speaker 4: not happening. It's insulting to the women of America.
Speaker 5: She was big on defund the police in Minnesota. She
Speaker 5: went out, I'm talking now, if you don't mind, please,
Speaker 5: does that sound familiar? I would say we would both
Speaker 5: leave this debate right now. I'd like to see her
Speaker 5: go down to Washington, DC during this debate because we're
Speaker 5: wasting a lot of time because it's been so bad,
Speaker 5: it's so ridiculous. And you know what, I give you
Speaker 5: a little secret. He hates her. He can't stand her.
Speaker 5: In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in,
Speaker 5: they're eating the cats, they're eating the pets of the
Speaker 5: people that live there. And this is what's happening in
Speaker 5: our country and it's a shame.
Speaker 4: I'm going to invite you to attend one of Donald
Speaker 4: Trump's rallies because it's a really interesting thing to watch.
Speaker 4: You will see during the course of his rallies he
Speaker 4: talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter. He will talk
Speaker 4: about win Mills cause cancer. And what you will also
Speaker 4: notice is that people start leaving his rallies early out
Speaker 4: of exhaustion and boredom.
Speaker 1: We're eating pets, we're executing babies, and Taylor Swift has
Speaker 1: entered the chat. Welcome to the presidential debate twenty four,
Speaker 1: the second this year, but with two well with one
Speaker 1: different candidate. We just walked into the studio. We haven't
Speaker 1: even had time to talk amongst ourselves. Jesse, how feeling.
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed that debate. I felt as though at
Speaker 3: times I was watching a courtroom drama, and what we
Speaker 3: saw was Harris the prosecutor. I think her greatest strength,
Speaker 3: which I noticed within the first few minutes, was actually
Speaker 3: in her rebuttals, like she knew how to refute him,
Speaker 3: and it felt like there was a custodian of democracy,
Speaker 3: like there was a grown up in the room, like
Speaker 3: there was someone that you could trust. Obviously, that's a
Speaker 3: completely biased view because I align with most of Harris's policies.
Speaker 3: I think it's notable that Trump didn't ever look in
Speaker 3: her direction. He was looking down kind of the camera
Speaker 3: and straight on, whereas when he was speaking, she was
Speaker 3: looking at him. And I think her facial expressions, I
Speaker 3: kept thinking about how much she would have practiced them
Speaker 3: and decided how she would respond. So there wasn't eye rolling,
Speaker 3: there was anything that I thought was particularly denigrating. But
Speaker 3: there were moments where she laughed, which said a lot.
Speaker 3: And there was a lot of strategy in the way
Speaker 3: that she knew how to rile him up. She knew
Speaker 3: what buttons to press and where he might have had
Speaker 3: something strong to say. She knew that if he suggested
Speaker 3: that other world leaders were laughing at him, or people
Speaker 3: were leaving his rallies early, then he would get so
Speaker 3: stuck on that point that he would become undone. So
Speaker 3: I thought it was masterful by her. And the analysis
Speaker 3: I heard before this debate was if we come out
Speaker 3: of this debate talking about Harris, then Trump won, and
Speaker 3: if we come out talking about Trump than Harris one.
Speaker 3: I actually disagree with that analysis. I think that people
Speaker 3: will be coming out of this talking about what Harris said,
Speaker 3: how she held herself. There are viral moments of her strengths,
Speaker 3: but also Trump's weakness.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't know about that, because I think
Speaker 2: the most obvious easy headline is the eating cats and dogs.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, So the first thing that everybody on social
Speaker 2: media globbed onto was him saying that the thing that
Speaker 2: everybody needs to understand about that line, because it sounded
Speaker 2: like she'd provoked him and he'd gone off his head. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but they'd already said that. The Republicans have already been
Speaker 2: talking about this, this untrue story that illegal aliens are
Speaker 2: stealing people's pets from backyards in Ohio and eating them. JD.
Speaker 2: Vance has tweeted about it, so they've tested that line.
Speaker 2: We need to remember this. This is one of the
Speaker 2: things I think it's so important with Trump is it's
Speaker 2: so easy to laugh at him, which he hates, so
Speaker 2: it's great to do that too. But in the first
Speaker 2: two minutes of that debate, I was nervous because you
Speaker 2: want to look at him, right, he looks weird. We
Speaker 2: all know that, his orange face. It's got to be deliberate.
Speaker 2: He looks like somebody you want to look at. He
Speaker 2: says stupid things, he shouts him, and that actually makes
Speaker 2: him a formidable opponent because who you're looking at is
Speaker 2: who's got your attention, obviously. And I was worried at
Speaker 2: first because I thought she sounded a little unsure footed,
Speaker 2: but then she was just so good. But I think
Speaker 2: the things remember, while we're all lolling about cats and
Speaker 2: dogs and stuff. Is they've chosen that for a reason,
Speaker 2: and they know that people, certain people will like that
Speaker 2: and hang on to it and roll with it.
Speaker 3: And JD. Vance was on Twitter and even he has said,
Speaker 3: you know, this will probably end up being false, like
Speaker 3: he's acknowledged that it's probably false, and that is an
Speaker 3: old trope, really damaging racist trope about immigrants who eat animals,
Speaker 3: like it is so so racist. There is no factual findings,
Speaker 3: but the moment itself will be seen as a funny
Speaker 3: social media grab, which is when most people will probably
Speaker 3: be watching it. MAYA, what did you think?
Speaker 1: I was worried at first. I thought that he looked composed.
Speaker 1: I thought he'd actually been sedated. I thought he looked
Speaker 1: healthy and composed. And I thought she looked worried, and
Speaker 1: she was nervous in the beginning. And I'm so annoyed
Speaker 1: that the abortion question was so early because she hadn't
Speaker 1: hit her stride yet, and I.
Speaker 3: Thought she was brilliant.
Speaker 2: I disagree.
Speaker 1: I didn't because I thought she was fine, Like I meant, God,
Speaker 1: he's insane. But what I wanted her to say, because
Speaker 1: he always does this right, he talks about aborting babies,
Speaker 1: killing them after they're born. He talks about that, that's
Speaker 1: what the Democrats do, that's what Kamala does, and no
Speaker 1: one's ever really challenged him properly on that, and I
Speaker 1: think that. I mean, the little fact check by ther
Speaker 1: moderators was almost funny, where they were like.
Speaker 4: There is no state in this country where it is
Speaker 4: legal to kill a baby after it's born.
Speaker 1: But what I really wanted her to say was, mister Trump,
Speaker 1: are you okay? Are you unwell? Because you keep talking
Speaker 1: about executing babies like you are imagining this stuff. This
Speaker 1: is the stuff of terrible nightmares and delusions. I wanted
Speaker 1: her to go what I wanted through this whole thing
Speaker 1: about the dog eating and the babies and the all
Speaker 1: the crazy, because she needed to draw out the crazy
Speaker 1: in him, and I did. She did, but it was
Speaker 1: sort of drip fed. So it's clear she knew that
Speaker 1: there were about six or seven things that she needed
Speaker 1: to say that would make him crazy, and every single
Speaker 1: one of them did, from crowd size to you know,
Speaker 1: his rallies, to saying that other leaders were disgusted. So
Speaker 1: she knew all of those things and she dropped them
Speaker 1: but what I wanted her to do was to build them.
Speaker 1: I wanted her to build them so that he would
Speaker 1: get more and more crazy, because I wanted her to
Speaker 1: really go to his cognitive decline. He's marked by such
Speaker 1: a different yardstick than anyone else. I mean, we talked
Speaker 1: about Biden's cognitive decline, but the stuff that Donald's Trump
Speaker 1: says and has always said is actually nuts, like it's
Speaker 1: completely nuts, but it's just like, oh, yeah, that's just him.
Speaker 1: And I wanted her to really draw that line and
Speaker 1: to start because he will be that. He is already
Speaker 1: the oldest ever candidate running for president, and I wanted
Speaker 1: her to start making that the story, his cognitive decline
Speaker 1: and he's crazy, so everyone people start questioning that.
Speaker 2: I was deeply impressed because the context that we go
Speaker 2: into this debate with every headline, every US politics pod,
Speaker 2: every poll is like her honeymoon is over. She is shaky,
Speaker 2: she is on the back foot. People were really nervous
Speaker 2: about how she's going to perform because she's underestimated at
Speaker 2: every turn, that woman, And there's all this muttering all
Speaker 2: the time about how she's terrible off tellyprompter, she's not
Speaker 2: good on her feet. I actually thought she was great.
Speaker 2: I agree with you Mia that in the very beginning,
Speaker 2: I was nervous. But for me, she hit her stride
Speaker 2: in that abortion discussion.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the way that she basically said, women don't want this,
Speaker 3: women who you know have been raped or their baby
Speaker 3: is a product of Like, women do not want this.
Speaker 3: And she made a great point, which was that this
Speaker 3: is offensive to all women that you think we're walking
Speaker 3: around wanting abortions at nine months. I think her party
Speaker 3: line instead of going the crazy route, the thing that
Speaker 3: was repeated over and over again was he tells lies,
Speaker 3: he tells lies. So then when there was another one,
Speaker 3: she just went kind of shrugged her shoulders. And when
Speaker 3: I told you he was going to lie, I told
Speaker 3: you he was going to lie. That seemed like the
Speaker 3: party line for me. But I want to go back
Speaker 3: to the very beginning and the significance of the hands
Speaker 3: Yes go com because they'd never met, that was going
Speaker 3: to be an important moment.
Speaker 2: Also, the important context is in the Biden Trump debate,
Speaker 2: they didn't shake hands, they didn't acknowledge each other's existence,
Speaker 2: and we talked about it at the time. Actually, I
Speaker 2: hate that You've got to at least have the facade
Speaker 2: of some kind of civilized debate, and he didn't come out,
Speaker 2: but she made him do it.
Speaker 3: She made him do it, which made her look strong.
Speaker 3: She initiated, he sort of didn't have a choice. I
Speaker 3: think it established a power dynamic within the debate. And
Speaker 3: there's you know, people who say that Trump's a bit
Speaker 3: of a germophobe and that he doesn't like handshakes have
Speaker 3: been a big thing to Trump throughout his presidency and
Speaker 3: you know, even this campaign period. So that to me
Speaker 3: was a very significant moment, and it just showed she
Speaker 3: was presidential. I thought she was incredibly presidential from that
Speaker 3: moment onwards.
Speaker 1: What did you think of the split screen? Who do
Speaker 1: you think won the split screen?
Speaker 2: I think she did.
Speaker 3: She did.
Speaker 2: Every single meme that I've seen flying around is because
Speaker 2: you were talking about her facial expressions, Jesse, and that
Speaker 2: she was restrained. She was restrained. But that face that
Speaker 2: you're out of because you're right, mere, she didn't say it,
Speaker 2: but her face said it all the time. You're out
Speaker 2: of your mind. What are you talking about? You're crazy?
Speaker 2: That's what that face was, and that's what's going around
Speaker 2: the world at top speed, right now is like, this
Speaker 2: is the face I use when my ex partner says blah.
Speaker 2: This is the face I use when my boss does blah.
Speaker 2: Like I think that's probably the best reaction she could
Speaker 2: have had, smiling looking at him like he's ridiculous, but
Speaker 2: without school yard kind of level. She's very sparkly, right,
Speaker 2: you know how I said before one of the problems
Speaker 2: with Trump is even if you hate him, which you
Speaker 2: know clearly we all do and our allegiances are clear,
Speaker 2: and I apologize for that if anybody loves him out there,
Speaker 2: But even if you think he's a dangerous death pot,
Speaker 2: as I say, you can't really help but look at him.
Speaker 2: But there's something about her. When she's in her comfortable strides,
Speaker 2: she's very sparkly. Her eyes are twinkly, her smile is amazing.
Speaker 2: My eye became more and more drawn to her as
Speaker 2: we went on.
Speaker 3: She just came across as very very smart and like
Speaker 3: well qualified and all of the things that we knew
Speaker 3: she was. But I saw a prosecutor, which is what
Speaker 3: I think would have been the aim. I want to
Speaker 3: talk about a comment he made about the assassination, because
Speaker 3: he got one in there. He got one which was
Speaker 3: basically a jab at the Democrats, suggesting what was their
Speaker 3: fault they had something to answer for when it came
Speaker 3: to him getting shot in I think he said in
Speaker 3: the face, it was.
Speaker 2: In the head, and I took a bullet to the head.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now, Millennia Trump has released a video just in the
Speaker 3: last twenty four hours promoting a book that's about to
Speaker 3: come out, where she has fueled this conspiracy theory. So
Speaker 3: she's basically saying, there's more that you need to know.
Speaker 3: Do we think the Republicans are about to go full
Speaker 3: blown tinfoil hats? This was a Democrat job? Like, is that?
Speaker 3: Is that where we're heading?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yes, Trump's people they lean into the conspiracy theories because
Speaker 2: they're very good for them, right, And I think that
Speaker 2: there's no accident that he said that in what appeared
Speaker 2: to be an offhand way, and it's twelve hours before
Speaker 2: Milani's video had been released. This is a new strategy
Speaker 2: for them.
Speaker 5: HM.
Speaker 3: Can we also talk about Taylor. I need to talk
Speaker 3: about Taylor and her press release following the debate.
Speaker 2: Maya, how are you feeling about Taylor? There's no accident
Speaker 2: in the photos she chose to use in her endorsement,
Speaker 2: tell the people about it.
Speaker 1: I'm very excited. My phone blew up just before we
Speaker 1: jumped on to record this. The timing of this is
Speaker 1: just so fascinating to me. So she put out quite
Speaker 1: a long statement at the end of the debate, and
Speaker 1: she referenced the debate. So again, this didn't happen by accident.
Speaker 1: Tree Pain would have been all over it, and also
Speaker 1: Carmala's campaign would have been all over it, so they
Speaker 1: would have liaised about when is the most useful time
Speaker 1: if I'm going to endorse, when do you want that
Speaker 1: endorsement to be because it could be argued why is
Speaker 1: she pulling focus? And I think that this is what
Speaker 1: Carmala's campaign obviously wanted because she wouldn't have done it
Speaker 1: otherwise because she would have been accused of pulling focus?
Speaker 3: Can I ask, though, Maya, do you think my first
Speaker 3: instinct with this was did she wait till after the
Speaker 3: debate to see how it unfolded?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Was it possible that she was going Are we going
Speaker 3: to see how Harris fares in this? And then I
Speaker 3: will decide whether I no.
Speaker 1: No, because like I mean, I'll read you her statement
Speaker 1: and then I mean, this has clearly been prepared and
Speaker 1: been given a lot of thought. And also, what's she
Speaker 1: going to do? Go, oh, she didn't do so well.
Speaker 1: I don't want to back someone who might not win.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not what this is. So she posted
Speaker 1: a picture of herself with one of her cats. She's
Speaker 1: got a couple of cats, and she said, like many
Speaker 1: of you, I watched the debate tonight. If you haven't already,
Speaker 1: now it's a great time to do your research on
Speaker 1: the issues at hand and the stances these candidates take
Speaker 1: on the topics that matters to you the most. And
Speaker 1: she then just talks about how she's informed herself and
Speaker 1: how that's important and this bit's interesting. She then refers
Speaker 1: to the AI that came out that we've mentioned on
Speaker 1: the show of her and she says, I was recently
Speaker 1: made aware of the AI of me in quote marks
Speaker 1: falsely endorsing Donald Trump's presidential run, and that he'd posted it,
Speaker 1: and it really conjured up my fears around AI and
Speaker 1: the dangers of spreading misinformation. It brought me to the
Speaker 1: conclusion that I need to be very transparent about my
Speaker 1: actual plans for this election as a voter. The simplest
Speaker 1: way to combat misinformation is with the truth. I will
Speaker 1: be casting my vote for Kamala Harris and Tim Waltz
Speaker 1: in the election. I'm voting for Kamala Harris because she
Speaker 1: fights for the rights and causes I believe need a
Speaker 1: warrior to champion them. I think she is a steady handed,
Speaker 1: gifted leader, and I believe we can accomplish so much
Speaker 1: more in this country if we are led by calm
Speaker 1: and not chaos. She then talks about how heart and
Speaker 1: she was her selection of Tim wals as her running
Speaker 1: mate because she says he's been standing up for LGBTQ
Speaker 1: plus rights, IVF and a woman's right to her own
Speaker 1: body for decades. I've done my research, and I've made
Speaker 1: my choice. Your research is all yours to do, and
Speaker 1: the choice is yours to make. And then she says,
Speaker 1: you know, she encourages first time voters to register, and
Speaker 1: then she signs it off. I love this with love
Speaker 1: and hope. Taylor Swift childless cat lady because she's the
Speaker 1: most famous childless cat lady of the world.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: I mean that's obviously in reference to Jadie Vance's jab
Speaker 1: about childless cat ladies. He was referring to Kamala Harris,
Speaker 1: and everyone was waiting for Taylor Swift to come out
Speaker 1: and she didn't at the time. She's been waiting for
Speaker 1: the moment where it's going to land in the best
Speaker 1: way for Kamala Harris, and that's clearly now.
Speaker 2: The other thing is is that voter registration in the
Speaker 2: US and it changes in different states but closes soon,
Speaker 2: so there's a ticking deadline on how useful it is
Speaker 2: for Taylor to endorse to get people out to vote
Speaker 2: for the first time. And also, I just realized I
Speaker 2: thought that the cat picture was because of the dogs
Speaker 2: and cats, and now I'm like, oh, no, it's the
Speaker 2: cat lady. I thought, well, that was fast. She really
Speaker 2: did move fast on that bit. She's like selecting the
Speaker 2: dogs and cat picture at the last minute.
Speaker 3: Read differently, it looks like she's protecting her cat from,
Speaker 3: you know, possible violence.
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting me your point about pulling focus
Speaker 2: and timing, because that could definitely be seen as a criticism.
Speaker 2: But I think, I mean, you're so right because I
Speaker 2: spoke before about how the context going into this debate
Speaker 2: is the honeymoon is over for Kamala and that since
Speaker 2: the DNC since the convention, people haven't been talking about
Speaker 2: her so much, and her campaign knows that today is
Speaker 2: another one of those tent pole breakthrough. Everybody will be
Speaker 2: talking about a the election B Kamala Harris today, so
Speaker 2: maximize give them more things to talk about. It will
Speaker 2: extend it.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: If you are as obsessed as some of us are
Speaker 2: indeed about the US election, then you'll be happy to
Speaker 2: know that the brilliant Amelia Lester is going to join
Speaker 2: us for a proper debrief and point by point unpacking
Speaker 2: of the debate in a special subscriber episode that is
Speaker 2: available tomorrow, So keep your eye up for that. We'll
Speaker 2: put a link in the show notes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really the way.
Speaker 6: As a summer comes to an end, I cannot tell
Speaker 6: you what a relief it is to have finally completed
Speaker 6: my chemotherapy treatment. The last nine months have been incredibly
Speaker 6: tough for us as a family. Life As you know,
Speaker 6: it can change in an instant, and we've had to
Speaker 6: find a way to navigate the stormy waters and road unknown.
Speaker 6: The cancer journey is complex, scary, and unpredictable for everyone,
Speaker 6: especially those closest to you.
Speaker 2: We're in a forest, we're on a wind swept English beach,
Speaker 2: we're always in natural fibers, and we are in Princess
Speaker 2: Catherine's health update video. Yesterday via official channels, the Royals
Speaker 2: released a three minute film that's a very long film
Speaker 2: in social media time, by the way, three minutes.
Speaker 3: It's not a real it's.
Speaker 1: Very long video. It was almost a mini series.
Speaker 2: And Catherine narrates telling us, as you just heard, that
Speaker 2: she is through her chemotherapy and on her way to recovery,
Speaker 2: planning on coming.
Speaker 1: Back to work.
Speaker 2: Now, I'm sure I know that in this conversation we're
Speaker 2: about to have, we're going to analyze this video and
Speaker 2: the strategy behind it and the pr planning that went
Speaker 2: into it. But in a moment of earnestness, I have
Speaker 2: to say I bloody loved this video. Every single person
Speaker 2: I know who has been through a version of what
Speaker 2: Kate has just been through and is still going through,
Speaker 2: says what she says in this that it has profoundly
Speaker 2: changed them, that their perspective has shifted in surprising or
Speaker 2: in unsurprising. And my view is that these people, William
Speaker 2: and Catherine, they don't have the option of silence. They
Speaker 2: have to say something. We've seen what happens when they
Speaker 2: don't say anything earlier this year, and so choosing how
Speaker 2: to share this news was always going to be a
Speaker 2: big deal and it was always going to get a
Speaker 2: lot of scrutiny. What they chose to do was turned
Speaker 2: to a guy that they've worked with before, a filmmaker
Speaker 2: called will war who makes ads for things like uber eats,
Speaker 2: but he's also the person who made their very similar
Speaker 2: stylistically ten year wedding anniversary video and some of the
Speaker 2: King's coronation films. To me, it felt very Harry and
Speaker 2: Meghan Netflix doco Vibes, and Marina Hyde has written in
Speaker 2: fact saying that the Meganification I like this word. The
Speaker 2: Meganification of the royal family is in full swing. So Jesse,
Speaker 2: let the analysis begin. Thoughts on our three minute video
Speaker 2: from Catherine and William.
Speaker 3: Firstly, I agree, I am so glad. A lot of
Speaker 3: people said that they cried in the first ten to
Speaker 3: fifteen seconds when they heard that she was okay, because
Speaker 3: we've been waiting for an update and to see her
Speaker 3: with those three little kids. I think we have all
Speaker 3: known women who have lost their lives with little kids,
Speaker 3: and there is a tragedy. What that does to a
Speaker 3: family is just awful, and so I am so glad
Speaker 3: that she is okay. This video I like to imagine
Speaker 3: the briefing document because this video was about saying I
Speaker 3: am now cancer free, but it was about a lot
Speaker 3: of other things as well, right, Like, this was a
Speaker 3: branding exercise, and there was a reason why it was
Speaker 3: not a written statement from the palace. In fact, there
Speaker 3: was no reference to anything royal. There was no palace,
Speaker 3: there was no King Charles. It was a departure from
Speaker 3: what we've seen. So I would like to analyze this
Speaker 3: as though we are in year seven English, and there
Speaker 3: are a few points I would like to make. The
Speaker 3: first is that Kate is in the driver's seat. You'll
Speaker 3: notice it's one of the first shots. She's back in
Speaker 3: control of her life. Oh she is driving it. Yep, yep,
Speaker 3: that's the symbolism there. Did we notice that she released
Speaker 3: a butterfly. That's a symbol of metamorphosis.
Speaker 2: Now, I think that was in the briefing.
Speaker 3: I do, I do, or maybe not specifically, but like,
Speaker 3: we have symbolism for metamorphosis, and that I have changed,
Speaker 3: my perspective has changed. I'm a changed woman also blue.
Speaker 3: So blue is Kate Middleton's color. And you'll notice that everyone,
Speaker 3: even the kids, her and William, are all wearing different
Speaker 3: shades of blue throughout the video and apparently it signifies
Speaker 3: trust and stability. It is also as a family, their color,
Speaker 3: but it is a color that is thought to evoke
Speaker 3: trust and stability with people.
Speaker 2: Color royal blue exactly right.
Speaker 3: Now, did anyone else think it look like Kate was
Speaker 3: releasing a folk album? Yes, yeah, it was a bit
Speaker 3: folk album and.
Speaker 2: It was a bit it will double for a music video.
Speaker 3: Yes, well, this is very serious subject matter, but it
Speaker 3: has also gone beyond viral. And there was a version
Speaker 3: on Twitter where they put the succession the music under it,
Speaker 3: and it was very funny. When I watched the whole thing,
Speaker 3: and then I watched the whole thing again, and then
Speaker 3: I watched the whole thing again. It was a bit unusual, like.
Speaker 1: I buy that folk album just sorry, I've just gone
Speaker 1: a fok album. It's the kind of album that I
Speaker 1: really like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes you feel things.
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know what. None of us have
Speaker 1: been through this, so I think that what also was
Speaker 1: being conveyed to me by all of those bits were
Speaker 1: a renewal of their relationship. And I think that whether
Speaker 1: the affair rooms were true, there's no denying that something
Speaker 1: like this is incredibly difficult. And also what they've gone
Speaker 1: through with losing the Queen and then Charles's diagnosis, and
Speaker 1: then Harry and Meghan and then all the accusations about
Speaker 1: Kate that have come from Meghan and Harry and the
Speaker 1: things he said in his book. They've had a time,
Speaker 1: they really really have. And because they are not going
Speaker 1: down the Harry Meghan route of talking to Oprah and
Speaker 1: writing memoirs, they have to convey messages in other ways,
Speaker 1: and I think this was the way to do that.
Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting to me how they stepped
Speaker 1: up their entire strategy. To me, this is what the
Speaker 1: Royal Family has to be into the future, and I
Speaker 1: think they get that because people aren't interested so much.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess there's a place for ribbon cutting
Speaker 1: and being on balconies, but the point of the Royal
Speaker 1: family is really decorative, and I think when you drill
Speaker 1: even further into that, and what the read was for
Speaker 1: me in this Kate video, is that the point of Kate,
Speaker 1: because she's not ever going to be, you know, on
Speaker 1: the throne. She's not in the line of success. She's
Speaker 1: going to be not herself, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's not about her, It's about Charles, and then it's
Speaker 1: about William, and then it's going to be about their
Speaker 1: son George. So she's literally an accouterment to whoever's on
Speaker 1: the phone.
Speaker 2: She is gone.
Speaker 1: But the point is that the role of her and
Speaker 1: princesses is to perform this idea of femininity. I thought
Speaker 1: it was really interesting that she was in address because
Speaker 1: Kate doesn't usually wear a dress except when she's at
Speaker 1: like big royal things, like we usually see her in
Speaker 1: skinny jeans or pants. She's pretty sensible. She's sort of
Speaker 1: that sporty country English gal. And I think, you know, again,
Speaker 1: this isn't personal, and everybody gets to do whatever they want.
Speaker 1: This isn't about her. I'm talking about what she symbolizes,
Speaker 1: this idea that no matter whether she's just been diagnosed
Speaker 1: with cancer, whether she's in the middle of her treatment,
Speaker 1: we have never seen her look anything other than immaculate
Speaker 1: because that is her job. And I feel like, firstly,
Speaker 1: the pressure on her and secondly that isn't a very
Speaker 1: modern approach. It's a little bit more I guess. I
Speaker 1: don't want to say it's in authentic, but it's more
Speaker 1: pulling back the curtain. That's what we're more used to.
Speaker 2: But the rhyme authentic to her, you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: she is going to be the queen. She is one
Speaker 2: of the most important people in that family. There is
Speaker 2: an argument that she is the most important person in
Speaker 2: that family because people are always going to be much
Speaker 2: more interested in her than they are in him, because
Speaker 2: she's a woman. That's the way it works. But the
Speaker 2: thing that I take from this is that they have
Speaker 2: stepped their game up enormously. As you've said me, although
Speaker 2: it's interesting because I said that and I said, you know,
Speaker 2: this is a departure in strategy, But then when I
Speaker 2: realized that this same guy made their ten year anniversary
Speaker 2: video and you go back and look at that, it's
Speaker 2: much the same, right, But they've stepped up their strategy
Speaker 2: significantly in comms of how to talk about this story,
Speaker 2: because it feels almost insane now that we were all
Speaker 2: so obsessed with the Where's Kate's story earlier this year,
Speaker 2: and it feels a bit gruesome and macab but the
Speaker 2: truth of it is that fascination is never going to
Speaker 2: go away, so they have to work out how to
Speaker 2: play it. And I've read some commentary like that Marina
Speaker 2: Hyde piece that kind of says, oh, it's a bit tacky,
Speaker 2: like do they really owe us this? Do they really
Speaker 2: owe us this glimpse into their family? There's always going
Speaker 2: to be this argument that really the royals should be
Speaker 2: above this kind of stuff, But the truth of it is,
Speaker 2: as you say, these days, they can't afford to be
Speaker 2: above this kind of stuff because otherwise everybody else is
Speaker 2: telling their story. And although everyone's going to tell their
Speaker 2: story anyway, you know, they're going to read into as
Speaker 2: we're doing right now, like are they really as happy
Speaker 2: as they appear on the beach?
Speaker 3: And da da da da da.
Speaker 2: People are still going to do that, but they have
Speaker 2: to control it. And it's interesting because when the terrible
Speaker 2: pr disaster of how this whole announcement of Kate's health
Speaker 2: issues rolled out, and with hindsight you can see what
Speaker 2: a very difficult message that was to work out how
Speaker 2: to tell, and probably the fuss about the photo and
Speaker 2: all that was really overblown. But they are learning, they
Speaker 2: are changing, They are playing Harry and Meghan's game. This
Speaker 2: did look like a lot of the stock footage in
Speaker 2: that documentary, and I hope that this is where they're going,
Speaker 2: that they're going to start giving controlled glimpses, which they
Speaker 2: always have to appoint. She's released images of the family
Speaker 2: that she takes and all those things. But it's interesting.
Speaker 2: They have a job right now if anyone's into it.
Speaker 2: Communications officer for Wills and Kate is on LinkedIn right now.
Speaker 2: It only got posted on September the third.
Speaker 3: I think you could do that.
Speaker 2: I would love it. Maybe I'm going to go back
Speaker 2: to England and work at Kensington Palace.
Speaker 3: I think the really smart move was that it was
Speaker 3: just Kate's voice. We don't hear Kate's voice very often,
Speaker 3: and this was her voice for three minutes. There was
Speaker 3: nothing from William. I think if this was ten years ago,
Speaker 3: it almost would have been William's statement to talk about
Speaker 3: how the family is faring. And the other moment that
Speaker 3: stood out to me was when the kids spoke to
Speaker 3: the camera. That was kind of candid. It was the
Speaker 3: kids kind of playing with the camera and we heard
Speaker 3: their voices, which I don't think I had heard their
Speaker 3: voices before. But there is something very aspirational and idealized
Speaker 3: about this family, which, as a millennial who has grown
Speaker 3: up on the grittiness of social media, does look a
Speaker 3: little bit out of touch. It's very kind of the
Speaker 3: early influences, with their perfect kitchens and their eye and
Speaker 3: clothes and all of that that I kind of went,
Speaker 3: this isn't what a family looks like, but it's not
Speaker 3: their job.
Speaker 2: And also authentic to them, right, So you know the
Speaker 2: stuff of her wandering around in forests, She's written and
Speaker 2: talked about that a lot. Forest bathing, how she thinks
Speaker 2: it's really important, Like, this is what they do. They
Speaker 2: walk around in woods, they roll around on beaches.
Speaker 1: What's forest bathing?
Speaker 2: Walking in the woods.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's not actually bathing in a forest in a river,
Speaker 1: it's just.
Speaker 2: Walking in the worlds well bathe.
Speaker 1: Oh god, no, I think what's interesting. And you're right,
Speaker 1: I should clarify when I say not authentic, I don't
Speaker 1: mean as you say authentic for them. It's not necessarily
Speaker 1: reflective of what someone looks like when they've gone through cancer,
Speaker 1: during treatment and after treatment. And I think that possibly
Speaker 1: if I was a person who has experienced cancer, is
Speaker 1: still going through it. I would feel a little unrepresented,
Speaker 1: but that's not necessarily her job, although she does say
Speaker 1: I want to be a voice for you, but the
Speaker 1: rules of being royal and the rules of being a
Speaker 1: royal woman will never allow her to look anything less
Speaker 1: than perfect, never ever, ever. But I think that the
Speaker 1: other side text in this whole thing is a real
Speaker 1: message to Harry and Megan, because their whole narrative about
Speaker 1: why they had to leave the royal family and move
Speaker 1: to America is because of what they wanted for their children.
Speaker 1: They wanted their children and their family to be able
Speaker 1: to have loving relationship and affectionate and to be able
Speaker 1: to do normal things and not be in the spotlight.
Speaker 1: And they wanted you know that he really painted himself
Speaker 1: as a very different person to his cold brother and
Speaker 1: his cold father who did everything for the press, and
Speaker 1: that married just a dutiful person who came along, who
Speaker 1: ticked boxes, which we imagine how insulting that was to
Speaker 1: both of them, but especially Kate, and I think that
Speaker 1: what this video said very clearly was no, No, we
Speaker 1: are still in the royal family. We're still in line
Speaker 1: to the throne. Don't try to say that we don't
Speaker 1: have a loving, beautiful family and that we're not affectionate,
Speaker 1: or that this is all just for show, because we
Speaker 1: are a very normal like it showed them as good parents,
Speaker 1: showed William is a really good dad. That's the mantle
Speaker 1: Harry and Megan are trying to have that we're the
Speaker 1: ones that care about acudes. And Harry very explicitly wrote
Speaker 1: in his book, I'm worried for my niece and my
Speaker 1: nephews growing up in that system, and it was so
Speaker 1: out of line and so controlling, you know, through overconcern
Speaker 1: this idea of only I can give my children a
Speaker 1: happy life away from the royal bubble. And I think
Speaker 1: this was very much a message in response to that.
Speaker 2: And he clearly is a good dad. He only had
Speaker 2: to watch the Taylor Swift concert video to see that.
Speaker 2: You know, that wasn't happening two generations ago. If you
Speaker 2: want to hear more royal thoughts, particularly from me, listen
Speaker 2: to today's quickie we talk about this. We also it's
Speaker 2: going to be a big time in royals guys, because
Speaker 2: it's Harry's fortieth on the weekend.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: Everybody wants to know is the King going to post
Speaker 2: about it. How is the family going to handle that?
Speaker 2: He's inheriting sixteen million dollars pounds on that day. Next
Speaker 2: week the first of two films about Prince Andrew and
Speaker 2: that disastrous newsnight in If Who comes out, it's going
Speaker 2: to be a big deal. There's going to be lots
Speaker 2: to talk about that. If you want to hear about
Speaker 2: all the royal gossip news, we won't call it gossip,
Speaker 2: We'll call it news. If you want to hear all
Speaker 2: the royal news, go listen to the Quickie. There's a
Speaker 2: link in the show notes.
Speaker 3: Hell every Tuesday and Thursday we drop new segments of
Speaker 3: Mummeya out Loud just for Mummeya subscribers. Follow the link
Speaker 3: in the show notes to get your daily doseph out
Speaker 3: Loud and a big thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 3: This week, Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi announced his government would
Speaker 3: be banning kids from using social media. Here's what he
Speaker 3: said on ABC News.
Speaker 7: We're looking at the range between fourteen and sixteen. That's
Speaker 7: one of the reasons why we're having a trial, and
Speaker 7: what we're looking at is how you deliver it. This
Speaker 7: is a global issue that governments around the globe are
Speaker 7: trying to deal with and so we can look at
Speaker 7: the experience, look at the response as well of social
Speaker 7: media companies. Social media has a social responsibility in order
Speaker 7: to have that social license that they require to operate
Speaker 7: in a decent society. They're not above everyone else. They
Speaker 7: can't just say we're a big multinational company, we can
Speaker 7: do whatever we like, regardless of the harm that's being caused.
Speaker 3: By the end of this year, the Albanesi government vows
Speaker 3: to impose a minimum age to use platforms like Facebook
Speaker 3: and Instagram, although what that age is, as Albanezi said,
Speaker 3: has not been determined yet. The cutoff age won't be
Speaker 3: revealed until the government's trial of age verification technology is completed,
Speaker 3: so without getting too technical, there are a few different
Speaker 3: ways you can determine the age of a user, from
Speaker 3: parental concers vent to estimating the user's age based on
Speaker 3: their appearance to systems with ID. The move has bipartisan support, However,
Speaker 3: the Greens have opposed the legislation, saying they would prefer
Speaker 3: harm education over a blunt ban. Many countries around the
Speaker 3: world are working on age limits for social media apps,
Speaker 3: although the enforcement varies, and as Alberanizi has said as
Speaker 3: of yet, no country in the world has solved this problem.
Speaker 3: While some are in total support of introducing the ban,
Speaker 3: some advocacy groups say social media is critical for marginalized
Speaker 3: teens to find a sense of community and belonging, and
Speaker 3: it could also limit their access to news and current affairs.
Speaker 3: Another problem is the ways in which teens might find
Speaker 3: workarounds spreading into darker corners of the internet with even
Speaker 3: less regulation. Maya what do you make of the ban?
Speaker 1: I think it's great. I hope it's still they're sixteen.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that kids will work a way
Speaker 1: around it. But I they am really disappointed at the
Speaker 1: cynical nature of the Greens and the way that they're
Speaker 1: opposing this because they know that their base are traditionally younger,
Speaker 1: So Greens voters tend to skiw younger. They're probably less
Speaker 1: likely to have kids because they are younger, or if
Speaker 1: they do have kids, they won't be at the age
Speaker 1: where they've seen the detrimental effects of social media on
Speaker 1: their kids. So I think that the closer you are
Speaker 1: to being a teenager, and the less experience you have
Speaker 1: either as an educator or as a parent with the
Speaker 1: harmful effects of social media, the less likely you are
Speaker 1: to understand or support this band. The idea of harm
Speaker 1: minimization is better. I mean, come on, you know you
Speaker 1: tried telling a teenager, oh, this is not good for
Speaker 1: your mental health. What parents are saying is that if
Speaker 1: it's just us trying to make these bands and put
Speaker 1: these restrictions on our kids ourselves, Firstly, we're not equipped
Speaker 1: to do it because we know how literally we don't
Speaker 1: know how to stop them from getting on the platforms.
Speaker 1: And secondly, it stigmatizes you kid, because unless you join
Speaker 1: forces with everybody in their class and everybody that they know,
Speaker 1: it makes them an outlier and it can make things
Speaker 1: really really hard and can just connect them socially. So
Speaker 1: there are certain things that governments have to control, and
Speaker 1: we've seen that the tech companies are incapable of doing
Speaker 1: it themselves. So I'm all for it.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because I agree with you Mia to a point,
Speaker 2: But then I've read all the counter arguments and some
Speaker 2: of them are really interesting. But the thing that always
Speaker 2: falls apart on it for me is we're not talking
Speaker 2: about banning children from the internet like I would have
Speaker 2: more sympathy from that idea of it cuts them off
Speaker 2: from news and current affairs, it stops them from community building.
Speaker 2: You know, it's ridiculous to think that you can't have
Speaker 2: children's Internet just like you have children's TV. No one
Speaker 2: is suggesting that children shouldn't be allowed on the internet, right.
Speaker 2: What they're talking about is these very specific platforms and
Speaker 2: aimed so far at Instagram, TikTok, snapchat. Discord is about
Speaker 2: those platforms, so kids will still have access to all
Speaker 2: kinds of things, and that you know, no one's talking about.
Speaker 2: They're not allowed on the Internet. They're not allowed to
Speaker 2: talk to anybody, they're not allowed to gain, they're not
Speaker 2: allowed to communicate. That's not what this is about. This
Speaker 2: is about putting restrictions on those giant companies. And I
Speaker 2: agree with Albo on that point that these social media
Speaker 2: platforms do have a responsibility, and they are becoming the
Speaker 2: world's richest and most powerful people and then putting their
Speaker 2: hands up and going, it's got nothing to do with us.
Speaker 2: These terrible issues that are occurring with kids' mental health
Speaker 2: and suicidality and all this stuff nothing to do with us.
Speaker 2: You know, that's definitely parents' responsibility. I agree with mea
Speaker 2: a million percent about the idea that parents can't fight
Speaker 2: that alone. The only thing is I find it fascinating
Speaker 2: because it's a really big deal. If it happens, it
Speaker 2: affects all kinds of things. Think about for example, and
Speaker 2: a bubble like tween and teen skincare obsession, which has
Speaker 2: been entirely fueled by TikTok. It literally changed economies because
Speaker 2: you're not supposed to market directly to children products that
Speaker 2: aren't for children. But these social media platforms have allowed
Speaker 2: businesses and companies to get around that unregulated and unfettered
Speaker 2: for a really long time by saying, well, that's not
Speaker 2: really what we're doing. It's just that the kids really
Speaker 2: like what we're putting out there. It's like, no, that's
Speaker 2: not why my twelve year old is asking me for
Speaker 2: a hundred dollars serum. You know what I mean. It's
Speaker 2: not that. So this will have massive implications in lots
Speaker 2: of ways, which is good. There's a bit of me
Speaker 2: that's sad because I think, if and when it happens,
Speaker 2: I know that my children will probably be the guinea
Speaker 2: pig generation in that I'll probably look back in a
Speaker 2: few years and go I cannot believe I let my
Speaker 2: daughter on TikTok when she was thirteen, will feel like
Speaker 2: I was handing her a cigarette or a bottle of brandy,
Speaker 2: Like Aura, I don't think you.
Speaker 3: I don't think parents have a whole lot of control
Speaker 3: right now, and we don't the public data that's come
Speaker 3: out this comes after this release that said there's been
Speaker 3: you know, an increase in mental health hospitalizations and psychological
Speaker 3: stress among young people. That is a statistical reality. And
Speaker 3: the increase is worse among women and girls aged sixteen
Speaker 3: to twenty four. And so this has come out. All
Speaker 3: of these studies have come out, and some will say
Speaker 3: just because mobile phones coexist at the same time as
Speaker 3: young people's mental health is deteriorating, doesn't mean one causes
Speaker 3: the other. They say, correlation not causation. To that, I say,
Speaker 3: speak to any teacher or any parent and ask them
Speaker 3: what they think, or specifically, any parent who has lost
Speaker 3: a child to you know, mental health issues or is
Speaker 3: currently experiencing severe mental health issues, and they will tell
Speaker 3: you the same thing. There have been a lot of
Speaker 3: advocates that have been interviewed. One I saw this was
Speaker 3: in Australia and she lost her daughter to suicide, and
Speaker 3: she went on her daughter's phone afterwards and had a
Speaker 3: look at what she was being served on TikTok, and
Speaker 3: it was so distressing what that our Go rhythm had done.
Speaker 3: It was wall to wall girls who felt the same
Speaker 3: as her, girls who were speaking very very candidly about dying.
Speaker 3: Like any mental health expert would say, you can't look
Speaker 3: at that. It's contagious. So the ban, I think is
Speaker 3: one thing, and a lot of people then go the ban,
Speaker 3: how about X, Y and Z. I don't think this
Speaker 3: is in isolation. I also think that algorithms, that's a
Speaker 3: big one. Algorithms for young people are really bad because
Speaker 3: they radicalize them and they take them down into rabbit holes.
Speaker 3: So that's another thing that could be addressed. But I
Speaker 3: find this attitude of something has to be done, something
Speaker 3: has to be done, and then they choose something. This
Speaker 3: keeps happening. The e Safety commissioner or the government chooses
Speaker 3: something and everyone yells not that, or I've even heard
Speaker 3: people say, well, it's not gonna work.
Speaker 2: It's not gonna work.
Speaker 3: I think that's defeatist and a country has to be
Speaker 3: the first country to work it out. There are big
Speaker 3: problems facing the world. Look at what AI can do.
Speaker 3: You can't tell me that there isn't a solution.
Speaker 2: Per Countries all over the world are grappling with this.
Speaker 2: So the tech companies are going to say that this
Speaker 2: is extreme. In Australia's idea is extreme, but countries are
Speaker 2: all over the world are trying to fix this. The
Speaker 2: first thing that everybody says, and this including parents who
Speaker 2: like myself a bullseye in this demo of our kids
Speaker 2: living on social media to a point, and we do
Speaker 2: our best with our earnest like not until you're this age.
Speaker 2: And but you know, I'm going to put these filters
Speaker 2: on your phone and all that. But ultimately, as me
Speaker 2: has already expressed, you're kind of powerless in this because
Speaker 2: it is their world. Like talking about the implications of
Speaker 2: banning Snapchat is enormous. That is, my daughter probably cannot
Speaker 2: imagine her life or her social life without Snapchat, which
Speaker 2: is scary in itself. Right, So the first thing everyone
Speaker 2: says is it can't be done. How would you do that? Oh,
Speaker 2: they'll find a way around it. Yes, they will find
Speaker 2: a way around it. Lots of kids, some kids will,
Speaker 2: but kids find their way around buying booze before they're eighteen.
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean we all go we should just make
Speaker 2: alcohol legal from when you're ten. Yeah, I think it
Speaker 2: is defeatist. It's going to be really interesting. I think
Speaker 2: with these kind of debates you just have to strap
Speaker 2: in and go. A lot of people are going to
Speaker 2: say a lot of stuff, but there is no question
Speaker 2: that this is one of the biggest issues that's facing kids.
Speaker 3: And community can be found in places outside of social media,
Speaker 3: and news and current affairs can and should be found
Speaker 3: in places outside of social media. What I do think
Speaker 3: is a little bit funny is like you hear as
Speaker 3: you say, Maya, the closer they are to teenagers, it's like,
Speaker 3: I need the Internet for my community, and it's like, mate,
Speaker 3: you're not sitting there making friends on the Internet. You're
Speaker 3: looking at pornography.
Speaker 2: Ironic thing about them, Yeah, they are definitely Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think they definitely are. And I but the thing is
Speaker 2: that I think there will be still be ways to
Speaker 2: do that. The thing that's slightly ironic about the Green's position,
Speaker 2: which I do have sympathy for, I understand that point,
Speaker 2: is that they're defending the business models of these massive
Speaker 2: tech platforms that are just all about getting rich. You
Speaker 2: know what you just explained, Jesse about the awfulness being
Speaker 2: served in an algorithm to a young girl with mental
Speaker 2: health issues. Generally speaking, the bosses of the tech platforms
Speaker 2: will literally go, that's got nothing to do with us
Speaker 2: while cashing checks. So it seems very ironic that the
Speaker 2: Greens would be defended in a way that really usually
Speaker 2: they would kind of think, there's got to be another way.
Speaker 3: There was a piece of legislation I think passed in
Speaker 3: the nineties or something that basically protects all tech giants
Speaker 3: from anything that is put on their platforms. Like legally
Speaker 3: they can just go, oh, well, we didn't mean them
Speaker 3: to see that or whatever. This will hold them more
Speaker 3: to account, and maybe it means that the market corrects
Speaker 3: itself and we have better platforms for young people. It
Speaker 3: doesn't mean there are no platforms, but maybe it's not
Speaker 3: the wild West. And you know, this is a bit
Speaker 3: of a kickup the bum. If this segment has brought
Speaker 3: up anything for you or has made you think about
Speaker 3: a young person in your life, then there are resources
Speaker 3: available in the show notes to life Line and beyond
Speaker 3: Blue out Louders.
Speaker 2: That's all we've got time for on today's show. Thank
Speaker 2: you as always for being with us, and thank you
Speaker 2: to our brilliant team on a crazy debate day helping
Speaker 2: us put all that together. We are going to play
Speaker 2: you now a little bit of a episode that we
Speaker 2: made just the subscribers this week with Emily Vernon, and
Speaker 2: it's about wedding etiquette, which is complex and always gets
Speaker 2: people excited and specifically about what bridesmaids should and shouldn't
Speaker 2: be expected to do and pay for. Here's a little
Speaker 2: bit of it.
Speaker 3: I was invited to a wedding and they said absolutely
Speaker 3: no gifts. That was on there.
Speaker 2: Do you still bring a gift?
Speaker 1: No? Not bring a gift?
Speaker 2: Right we honor people's wishes.
Speaker 3: They said absolutely no gift. Do you bring a card?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 1: Do you bring card?
Speaker 2: Is good card? I'd bring like an emergency card with
Speaker 2: some money in it and then see what everyone else
Speaker 2: is doing.
Speaker 1: This is a thing.
Speaker 2: No, if they say no gifts, it means no gifts,
Speaker 2: just have trust issues. I don't call them on that.
Speaker 2: Shites because also I feel like once I give a gift,
Speaker 2: I've done my job. Like I've done it. I just
Speaker 2: want to have a good time.
Speaker 1: I just want to drink.
Speaker 2: Know what it is.
Speaker 3: You don't feel even you feel like you've got one up.
Speaker 3: They're walking around the world thinking they've got one up
Speaker 3: on me because they in the event, and I didn't
Speaker 3: give you a gift, so you're like no.
Speaker 2: So here's the thing that is to the rest of
Speaker 2: the episode.
Speaker 3: In the show notes, Bye.
Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you
Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing
Speaker 2: to Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it.
Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode description.