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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 2: Mama Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking

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Speaker 2: about on Wednesday, the eleventh of September. I'm Holly Wainwright.

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Speaker 1: I'm Mea Friedman, and I'm recording remotely today in case

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Speaker 1: I sound a little bit different to normal, because I'm

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Speaker 1: on the road doing our and your upfronts where we

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Speaker 1: talk about all the exciting things we've got coming up

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Speaker 1: at Mamma Mia next year to all out advertisers. But

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Speaker 1: there was no way I was going to miss weighing

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Speaker 1: in on this episode. Between the Kate Middleton video and

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Speaker 1: the debate, I'm all in.

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Speaker 3: That's one of the biggest episodes of the year.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 3: I am Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 2: And on the show today, as Maya has alluded to Trump, Paris,

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Speaker 2: Dogs and Cats and Taylor, we watched the first and

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Speaker 2: probably only US presidential debate so that you don't have to. Also,

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Speaker 2: the very happy announcement sees William and Kate take a

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Speaker 2: pr pivot straight out of the Harry and Meghan playbook,

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Speaker 2: and it looks like the social media band that kids

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Speaker 2: is actually going to happen. Should we be celebrating or panicking?

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Speaker 2: But first, Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 3: In case you missed it, there is a photo circulating

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Speaker 3: of Matt Damon and Jennifer Lopez that I will argue

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Speaker 3: is one of the most iconic images of our lifetime.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you, Jesse, I agree with you. I

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Speaker 2: was so excited when I saw that. Our group chat immediately,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, look at this.

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Speaker 3: This week, Damon and Lopez appeared on the red carpet

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Speaker 3: for the premiere of Unstoppable at the Toronto International Film.

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Speaker 1: First, can we talk about what she was wearing?

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Speaker 3: Yes, Mea, obviously, that is the first point on the agenda.

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Speaker 1: Okay, thank you.

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Speaker 3: We should say that the film was made by Damon

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Speaker 3: as production company, it stars Lopez.

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Speaker 1: I want to that's why he was there.

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Speaker 2: Maya. You have to let the woman give some context

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Speaker 2: to wear this image.

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Speaker 3: Of all time unpacked the dress.

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Speaker 1: Please, it is the best revenge dress since Diana's dress

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Speaker 1: that she wore On the night that Charles's interview went

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Speaker 1: to air, where he talked about his relationship with Camille.

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Speaker 1: I remember she wore that navy blue dress. We just

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Speaker 1: saw it replicated on the crown with Elizabeth Tickie anyway,

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Speaker 1: on the red carpet. I just could talk about this

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Speaker 1: for a long time. She was wearing this dress. It

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Speaker 1: was clear she was naked underneath because it had like

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Speaker 1: these bows all the way down. It'll become one of

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Speaker 1: the most iconic dresses, I think. But what's really interesting

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Speaker 1: about it that only real experts will have noticed, is

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Speaker 1: that it very clearly showed the place on her body

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Speaker 1: under her left breast where she had matching tattoos with Ben.

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Speaker 1: She's had it removed.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't correct you, but it's her right breast.

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Speaker 1: No, I think it's her left.

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Speaker 3: It is her right breast. Now, do you want to describe.

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Speaker 1: The tattoo anyway? I can't remember what it was. It

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Speaker 1: was some symbol and it's not there anymore. Is the

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Speaker 1: most important thing to take away from this whole conversation? Anyway,

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Speaker 1: continue he covered it up with makeup.

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Speaker 3: She did, and it was an infinity symbol with Jennifer

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Speaker 3: and Ben written and it was covered up. And it

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Speaker 3: appears that she did wear that dress so that she

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Speaker 3: could cover up her tattoo. Now to the photo.

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Speaker 4: I love that.

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Speaker 3: At the after party, Damon and Lopez were photographed deep

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Speaker 3: in conversation. They are holding hands, Lopez appears to be talking,

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Speaker 3: and Damon has his head bowed as though to say,

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Speaker 3: I've been talking about this fucking relationship for twenty years

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Speaker 3: and I have had enough.

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Speaker 1: I think we've all been Matt Damon in that photo.

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Speaker 3: Yes we have.

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Speaker 2: I want I've been both the people in that photo.

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Speaker 3: I want Holly to lip read this still image. Holly,

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Speaker 3: what are they saying? Because some are saying that they're

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Speaker 3: praying together because they have their heads. That is obviously incorrect.

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Speaker 1: I'll come on.

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Speaker 2: You know sometimes you have to do penance for your

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Speaker 2: bad friends. Yeah, yeah, right, And he is in this photo.

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Speaker 2: My lipreading take is he's like, I know, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: he's a dick. What can I say? And she's like

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Speaker 2: and another thing. He's like, I know, I'm sorry, I

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Speaker 2: love him, but he's a dick. What can I say?

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Speaker 2: And she just keeps going because she's had a champagne

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Speaker 2: and she's like, I just there's another and he's like,

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Speaker 2: I know, I'm sorry, he's a dick. What could I say?

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Speaker 2: That's what I think.

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Speaker 3: Is happening may or what do you think they're saying

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Speaker 3: to each other.

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Speaker 1: I think they're both someone who really loved Benefwick, and

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Speaker 1: I think that you know when you love someone, but

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Speaker 1: you also just watch them get in their own way.

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Speaker 1: And he's obviously done something and behaved in a way

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Speaker 1: that they're both really familiar with. And I think what's

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Speaker 1: really important in all the sort of leaks, because of

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Speaker 1: course she's caught so much heat for this breakup, including

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Speaker 1: on this podcast about.

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Speaker 2: From you, I'd say Jesse and I have been defending her.

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Speaker 1: I was hoping we could gloss over that, but she

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Speaker 1: has copped a lot of heat about and particularly on

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Speaker 1: the internet also here, but about that she's too much,

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Speaker 1: she was too hungry for attention, she suppose their life,

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Speaker 1: And I think what's really clear is that that was

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Speaker 1: obviously put out by his camp preemptively or maybe the

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Speaker 1: just that's what we all thought because it's the way

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Speaker 1: that everyone defaults to blaming the woman. But what's really

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Speaker 1: interesting about after this breakup, she has been seen with

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Speaker 1: his kids. She clearly remains close and has a quarterial

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Speaker 1: relationship with his ex wife because she's attended Jennifer Garner

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Speaker 1: and Ben Affleck's kids events, which if they weren't close,

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't happen. And now here she is holding hands

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Speaker 1: almost in prayer with his best friend of his whole life.

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Speaker 1: So clearly she's not the one that fault here.

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Speaker 3: I completely agree. I think he is definitely being a.

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Speaker 1: Part I think he's cheated, and he's back on the

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Speaker 1: gear like that's what I think.

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Speaker 2: Please? Can I make it really clear that this is

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Speaker 2: wild speculation and that none of us have any eye

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Speaker 2: can I that's true?

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Speaker 3: The other thing I've been thinking when I'm seeing these

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Speaker 3: images is I'm imagining text exchange between Ben and Matt,

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Speaker 3: because now Ben's going, Matt, I have seen the photos

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Speaker 3: and I need to know what you've discussed. And Matt said,

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Speaker 3: you put me in that situation. I didn't want to

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Speaker 3: be at the after party talking to a crying jin

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Speaker 3: but you didn't come, and he's like, what did you say?

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Speaker 3: And then they're going back and forth, back and forth.

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Speaker 3: I think it's very uncomfortable between the two men right now.

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Speaker 1: It's great.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry it's great, but it's great.

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Speaker 4: It is very well known that Donald Trump is weak

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Speaker 4: and wrong. Nowhere in America is a woman carrying a

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Speaker 4: pregnancy to term and asking for an abortion that is

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Speaker 4: not happening. It's insulting to the women of America.

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Speaker 5: She was big on defund the police in Minnesota. She

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Speaker 5: went out, I'm talking now, if you don't mind, please,

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Speaker 5: does that sound familiar? I would say we would both

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Speaker 5: leave this debate right now. I'd like to see her

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Speaker 5: go down to Washington, DC during this debate because we're

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Speaker 5: wasting a lot of time because it's been so bad,

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Speaker 5: it's so ridiculous. And you know what, I give you

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Speaker 5: a little secret. He hates her. He can't stand her.

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Speaker 5: In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in,

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Speaker 5: they're eating the cats, they're eating the pets of the

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Speaker 5: people that live there. And this is what's happening in

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Speaker 5: our country and it's a shame.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to invite you to attend one of Donald

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Speaker 4: Trump's rallies because it's a really interesting thing to watch.

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Speaker 4: You will see during the course of his rallies he

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Speaker 4: talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter. He will talk

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Speaker 4: about win Mills cause cancer. And what you will also

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Speaker 4: notice is that people start leaving his rallies early out

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Speaker 4: of exhaustion and boredom.

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Speaker 1: We're eating pets, we're executing babies, and Taylor Swift has

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Speaker 1: entered the chat. Welcome to the presidential debate twenty four,

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Speaker 1: the second this year, but with two well with one

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Speaker 1: different candidate. We just walked into the studio. We haven't

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Speaker 1: even had time to talk amongst ourselves. Jesse, how feeling.

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Speaker 3: I really enjoyed that debate. I felt as though at

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Speaker 3: times I was watching a courtroom drama, and what we

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Speaker 3: saw was Harris the prosecutor. I think her greatest strength,

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Speaker 3: which I noticed within the first few minutes, was actually

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Speaker 3: in her rebuttals, like she knew how to refute him,

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Speaker 3: and it felt like there was a custodian of democracy,

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Speaker 3: like there was a grown up in the room, like

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Speaker 3: there was someone that you could trust. Obviously, that's a

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Speaker 3: completely biased view because I align with most of Harris's policies.

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Speaker 3: I think it's notable that Trump didn't ever look in

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Speaker 3: her direction. He was looking down kind of the camera

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Speaker 3: and straight on, whereas when he was speaking, she was

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Speaker 3: looking at him. And I think her facial expressions, I

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Speaker 3: kept thinking about how much she would have practiced them

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Speaker 3: and decided how she would respond. So there wasn't eye rolling,

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Speaker 3: there was anything that I thought was particularly denigrating. But

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Speaker 3: there were moments where she laughed, which said a lot.

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Speaker 3: And there was a lot of strategy in the way

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Speaker 3: that she knew how to rile him up. She knew

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Speaker 3: what buttons to press and where he might have had

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Speaker 3: something strong to say. She knew that if he suggested

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Speaker 3: that other world leaders were laughing at him, or people

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Speaker 3: were leaving his rallies early, then he would get so

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Speaker 3: stuck on that point that he would become undone. So

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Speaker 3: I thought it was masterful by her. And the analysis

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Speaker 3: I heard before this debate was if we come out

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Speaker 3: of this debate talking about Harris, then Trump won, and

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Speaker 3: if we come out talking about Trump than Harris one.

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Speaker 3: I actually disagree with that analysis. I think that people

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Speaker 3: will be coming out of this talking about what Harris said,

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Speaker 3: how she held herself. There are viral moments of her strengths,

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Speaker 3: but also Trump's weakness.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't know about that, because I think

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Speaker 2: the most obvious easy headline is the eating cats and dogs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, So the first thing that everybody on social

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Speaker 2: media globbed onto was him saying that the thing that

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Speaker 2: everybody needs to understand about that line, because it sounded

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Speaker 2: like she'd provoked him and he'd gone off his head. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but they'd already said that. The Republicans have already been

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Speaker 2: talking about this, this untrue story that illegal aliens are

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Speaker 2: stealing people's pets from backyards in Ohio and eating them. JD.

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Speaker 2: Vance has tweeted about it, so they've tested that line.

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Speaker 2: We need to remember this. This is one of the

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Speaker 2: things I think it's so important with Trump is it's

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Speaker 2: so easy to laugh at him, which he hates, so

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Speaker 2: it's great to do that too. But in the first

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Speaker 2: two minutes of that debate, I was nervous because you

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Speaker 2: want to look at him, right, he looks weird. We

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Speaker 2: all know that, his orange face. It's got to be deliberate.

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Speaker 2: He looks like somebody you want to look at. He

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Speaker 2: says stupid things, he shouts him, and that actually makes

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Speaker 2: him a formidable opponent because who you're looking at is

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Speaker 2: who's got your attention, obviously. And I was worried at

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Speaker 2: first because I thought she sounded a little unsure footed,

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Speaker 2: but then she was just so good. But I think

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Speaker 2: the things remember, while we're all lolling about cats and

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Speaker 2: dogs and stuff. Is they've chosen that for a reason,

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Speaker 2: and they know that people, certain people will like that

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Speaker 2: and hang on to it and roll with it.

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Speaker 3: And JD. Vance was on Twitter and even he has said,

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Speaker 3: you know, this will probably end up being false, like

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Speaker 3: he's acknowledged that it's probably false, and that is an

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Speaker 3: old trope, really damaging racist trope about immigrants who eat animals,

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Speaker 3: like it is so so racist. There is no factual findings,

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Speaker 3: but the moment itself will be seen as a funny

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Speaker 3: social media grab, which is when most people will probably

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Speaker 3: be watching it. MAYA, what did you think?

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Speaker 1: I was worried at first. I thought that he looked composed.

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Speaker 1: I thought he'd actually been sedated. I thought he looked

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Speaker 1: healthy and composed. And I thought she looked worried, and

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Speaker 1: she was nervous in the beginning. And I'm so annoyed

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Speaker 1: that the abortion question was so early because she hadn't

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Speaker 1: hit her stride yet, and I.

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Speaker 3: Thought she was brilliant.

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Speaker 2: I disagree.

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Speaker 1: I didn't because I thought she was fine, Like I meant, God,

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Speaker 1: he's insane. But what I wanted her to say, because

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Speaker 1: he always does this right, he talks about aborting babies,

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Speaker 1: killing them after they're born. He talks about that, that's

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Speaker 1: what the Democrats do, that's what Kamala does, and no

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Speaker 1: one's ever really challenged him properly on that, and I

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Speaker 1: think that. I mean, the little fact check by ther

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Speaker 1: moderators was almost funny, where they were like.

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Speaker 4: There is no state in this country where it is

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Speaker 4: legal to kill a baby after it's born.

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Speaker 1: But what I really wanted her to say was, mister Trump,

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Speaker 1: are you okay? Are you unwell? Because you keep talking

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Speaker 1: about executing babies like you are imagining this stuff. This

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Speaker 1: is the stuff of terrible nightmares and delusions. I wanted

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Speaker 1: her to go what I wanted through this whole thing

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Speaker 1: about the dog eating and the babies and the all

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Speaker 1: the crazy, because she needed to draw out the crazy

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Speaker 1: in him, and I did. She did, but it was

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Speaker 1: sort of drip fed. So it's clear she knew that

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Speaker 1: there were about six or seven things that she needed

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Speaker 1: to say that would make him crazy, and every single

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Speaker 1: one of them did, from crowd size to you know,

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Speaker 1: his rallies, to saying that other leaders were disgusted. So

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Speaker 1: she knew all of those things and she dropped them

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Speaker 1: but what I wanted her to do was to build them.

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Speaker 1: I wanted her to build them so that he would

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Speaker 1: get more and more crazy, because I wanted her to

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Speaker 1: really go to his cognitive decline. He's marked by such

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Speaker 1: a different yardstick than anyone else. I mean, we talked

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Speaker 1: about Biden's cognitive decline, but the stuff that Donald's Trump

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Speaker 1: says and has always said is actually nuts, like it's

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Speaker 1: completely nuts, but it's just like, oh, yeah, that's just him.

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Speaker 1: And I wanted her to really draw that line and

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Speaker 1: to start because he will be that. He is already

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Speaker 1: the oldest ever candidate running for president, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: her to start making that the story, his cognitive decline

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Speaker 1: and he's crazy, so everyone people start questioning that.

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Speaker 2: I was deeply impressed because the context that we go

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Speaker 2: into this debate with every headline, every US politics pod,

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Speaker 2: every poll is like her honeymoon is over. She is shaky,

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Speaker 2: she is on the back foot. People were really nervous

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Speaker 2: about how she's going to perform because she's underestimated at

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Speaker 2: every turn, that woman, And there's all this muttering all

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Speaker 2: the time about how she's terrible off tellyprompter, she's not

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Speaker 2: good on her feet. I actually thought she was great.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you Mia that in the very beginning,

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Speaker 2: I was nervous. But for me, she hit her stride

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Speaker 2: in that abortion discussion.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the way that she basically said, women don't want this,

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Speaker 3: women who you know have been raped or their baby

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Speaker 3: is a product of Like, women do not want this.

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Speaker 3: And she made a great point, which was that this

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Speaker 3: is offensive to all women that you think we're walking

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Speaker 3: around wanting abortions at nine months. I think her party

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Speaker 3: line instead of going the crazy route, the thing that

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Speaker 3: was repeated over and over again was he tells lies,

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Speaker 3: he tells lies. So then when there was another one,

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Speaker 3: she just went kind of shrugged her shoulders. And when

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Speaker 3: I told you he was going to lie, I told

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Speaker 3: you he was going to lie. That seemed like the

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Speaker 3: party line for me. But I want to go back

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Speaker 3: to the very beginning and the significance of the hands

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Speaker 3: Yes go com because they'd never met, that was going

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Speaker 3: to be an important moment.

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Speaker 2: Also, the important context is in the Biden Trump debate,

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Speaker 2: they didn't shake hands, they didn't acknowledge each other's existence,

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Speaker 2: and we talked about it at the time. Actually, I

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Speaker 2: hate that You've got to at least have the facade

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Speaker 2: of some kind of civilized debate, and he didn't come out,

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Speaker 2: but she made him do it.

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Speaker 3: She made him do it, which made her look strong.

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Speaker 3: She initiated, he sort of didn't have a choice. I

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Speaker 3: think it established a power dynamic within the debate. And

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Speaker 3: there's you know, people who say that Trump's a bit

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Speaker 3: of a germophobe and that he doesn't like handshakes have

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Speaker 3: been a big thing to Trump throughout his presidency and

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Speaker 3: you know, even this campaign period. So that to me

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Speaker 3: was a very significant moment, and it just showed she

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Speaker 3: was presidential. I thought she was incredibly presidential from that

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Speaker 3: moment onwards.

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Speaker 1: What did you think of the split screen? Who do

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Speaker 1: you think won the split screen?

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Speaker 2: I think she did.

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Speaker 3: She did.

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Speaker 2: Every single meme that I've seen flying around is because

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Speaker 2: you were talking about her facial expressions, Jesse, and that

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Speaker 2: she was restrained. She was restrained. But that face that

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Speaker 2: you're out of because you're right, mere, she didn't say it,

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Speaker 2: but her face said it all the time. You're out

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Speaker 2: of your mind. What are you talking about? You're crazy?

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Speaker 2: That's what that face was, and that's what's going around

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Speaker 2: the world at top speed, right now is like, this

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Speaker 2: is the face I use when my ex partner says blah.

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Speaker 2: This is the face I use when my boss does blah.

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Speaker 2: Like I think that's probably the best reaction she could

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Speaker 2: have had, smiling looking at him like he's ridiculous, but

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Speaker 2: without school yard kind of level. She's very sparkly, right,

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Speaker 2: you know how I said before one of the problems

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Speaker 2: with Trump is even if you hate him, which you

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Speaker 2: know clearly we all do and our allegiances are clear,

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Speaker 2: and I apologize for that if anybody loves him out there,

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Speaker 2: But even if you think he's a dangerous death pot,

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Speaker 2: as I say, you can't really help but look at him.

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Speaker 2: But there's something about her. When she's in her comfortable strides,

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Speaker 2: she's very sparkly. Her eyes are twinkly, her smile is amazing.

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Speaker 2: My eye became more and more drawn to her as

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Speaker 2: we went on.

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Speaker 3: She just came across as very very smart and like

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Speaker 3: well qualified and all of the things that we knew

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Speaker 3: she was. But I saw a prosecutor, which is what

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Speaker 3: I think would have been the aim. I want to

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Speaker 3: talk about a comment he made about the assassination, because

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Speaker 3: he got one in there. He got one which was

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Speaker 3: basically a jab at the Democrats, suggesting what was their

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Speaker 3: fault they had something to answer for when it came

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Speaker 3: to him getting shot in I think he said in

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Speaker 3: the face, it was.

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Speaker 2: In the head, and I took a bullet to the head.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Now, Millennia Trump has released a video just in the

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Speaker 3: last twenty four hours promoting a book that's about to

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Speaker 3: come out, where she has fueled this conspiracy theory. So

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Speaker 3: she's basically saying, there's more that you need to know.

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Speaker 3: Do we think the Republicans are about to go full

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Speaker 3: blown tinfoil hats? This was a Democrat job? Like, is that?

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Speaker 3: Is that where we're heading?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yes, Trump's people they lean into the conspiracy theories because

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Speaker 2: they're very good for them, right, And I think that

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Speaker 2: there's no accident that he said that in what appeared

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Speaker 2: to be an offhand way, and it's twelve hours before

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Speaker 2: Milani's video had been released. This is a new strategy

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Speaker 2: for them.

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Speaker 5: HM.

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Speaker 3: Can we also talk about Taylor. I need to talk

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Speaker 3: about Taylor and her press release following the debate.

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Speaker 2: Maya, how are you feeling about Taylor? There's no accident

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Speaker 2: in the photos she chose to use in her endorsement,

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Speaker 2: tell the people about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited. My phone blew up just before we

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Speaker 1: jumped on to record this. The timing of this is

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Speaker 1: just so fascinating to me. So she put out quite

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Speaker 1: a long statement at the end of the debate, and

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Speaker 1: she referenced the debate. So again, this didn't happen by accident.

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Speaker 1: Tree Pain would have been all over it, and also

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Speaker 1: Carmala's campaign would have been all over it, so they

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Speaker 1: would have liaised about when is the most useful time

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Speaker 1: if I'm going to endorse, when do you want that

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Speaker 1: endorsement to be because it could be argued why is

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Speaker 1: she pulling focus? And I think that this is what

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Speaker 1: Carmala's campaign obviously wanted because she wouldn't have done it

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Speaker 1: otherwise because she would have been accused of pulling focus?

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Speaker 3: Can I ask, though, Maya, do you think my first

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Speaker 3: instinct with this was did she wait till after the

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Speaker 3: debate to see how it unfolded?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 3: Was it possible that she was going Are we going

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Speaker 3: to see how Harris fares in this? And then I

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Speaker 3: will decide whether I no.

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Speaker 1: No, because like I mean, I'll read you her statement

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Speaker 1: and then I mean, this has clearly been prepared and

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Speaker 1: been given a lot of thought. And also, what's she

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Speaker 1: going to do? Go, oh, she didn't do so well.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to back someone who might not win.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's not what this is. So she posted

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Speaker 1: a picture of herself with one of her cats. She's

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Speaker 1: got a couple of cats, and she said, like many

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Speaker 1: of you, I watched the debate tonight. If you haven't already,

404
00:20:06,967 --> 00:20:08,527
Speaker 1: now it's a great time to do your research on

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Speaker 1: the issues at hand and the stances these candidates take

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00:20:11,647 --> 00:20:14,247
Speaker 1: on the topics that matters to you the most. And

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Speaker 1: she then just talks about how she's informed herself and

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Speaker 1: how that's important and this bit's interesting. She then refers

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Speaker 1: to the AI that came out that we've mentioned on

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Speaker 1: the show of her and she says, I was recently

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Speaker 1: made aware of the AI of me in quote marks

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Speaker 1: falsely endorsing Donald Trump's presidential run, and that he'd posted it,

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Speaker 1: and it really conjured up my fears around AI and

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Speaker 1: the dangers of spreading misinformation. It brought me to the

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Speaker 1: conclusion that I need to be very transparent about my

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Speaker 1: actual plans for this election as a voter. The simplest

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Speaker 1: way to combat misinformation is with the truth. I will

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Speaker 1: be casting my vote for Kamala Harris and Tim Waltz

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Speaker 1: in the election. I'm voting for Kamala Harris because she

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Speaker 1: fights for the rights and causes I believe need a

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Speaker 1: warrior to champion them. I think she is a steady handed,

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Speaker 1: gifted leader, and I believe we can accomplish so much

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Speaker 1: more in this country if we are led by calm

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Speaker 1: and not chaos. She then talks about how heart and

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Speaker 1: she was her selection of Tim wals as her running

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Speaker 1: mate because she says he's been standing up for LGBTQ

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Speaker 1: plus rights, IVF and a woman's right to her own

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Speaker 1: body for decades. I've done my research, and I've made

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Speaker 1: my choice. Your research is all yours to do, and

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Speaker 1: the choice is yours to make. And then she says,

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Speaker 1: you know, she encourages first time voters to register, and

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Speaker 1: then she signs it off. I love this with love

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Speaker 1: and hope. Taylor Swift childless cat lady because she's the

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Speaker 1: most famous childless cat lady of the world.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's obviously in reference to Jadie Vance's jab

437
00:21:39,767 --> 00:21:42,287
Speaker 1: about childless cat ladies. He was referring to Kamala Harris,

438
00:21:42,607 --> 00:21:44,647
Speaker 1: and everyone was waiting for Taylor Swift to come out

439
00:21:44,687 --> 00:21:48,007
Speaker 1: and she didn't at the time. She's been waiting for

440
00:21:48,087 --> 00:21:50,207
Speaker 1: the moment where it's going to land in the best

441
00:21:50,247 --> 00:21:52,447
Speaker 1: way for Kamala Harris, and that's clearly now.

442
00:21:52,767 --> 00:21:55,407
Speaker 2: The other thing is is that voter registration in the

443
00:21:55,567 --> 00:21:58,367
Speaker 2: US and it changes in different states but closes soon,

444
00:21:59,127 --> 00:22:02,167
Speaker 2: so there's a ticking deadline on how useful it is

445
00:22:02,167 --> 00:22:04,207
Speaker 2: for Taylor to endorse to get people out to vote

446
00:22:04,207 --> 00:22:07,007
Speaker 2: for the first time. And also, I just realized I

447
00:22:07,087 --> 00:22:10,407
Speaker 2: thought that the cat picture was because of the dogs

448
00:22:10,407 --> 00:22:16,607
Speaker 2: and cats, and now I'm like, oh, no, it's the

449
00:22:16,647 --> 00:22:21,367
Speaker 2: cat lady. I thought, well, that was fast. She really

450
00:22:21,407 --> 00:22:24,527
Speaker 2: did move fast on that bit. She's like selecting the

451
00:22:24,567 --> 00:22:26,607
Speaker 2: dogs and cat picture at the last minute.

452
00:22:26,767 --> 00:22:29,087
Speaker 3: Read differently, it looks like she's protecting her cat from,

453
00:22:29,247 --> 00:22:31,207
Speaker 3: you know, possible violence.

454
00:22:31,327 --> 00:22:33,647
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting me your point about pulling focus

455
00:22:33,647 --> 00:22:36,567
Speaker 2: and timing, because that could definitely be seen as a criticism.

456
00:22:36,607 --> 00:22:39,047
Speaker 2: But I think, I mean, you're so right because I

457
00:22:39,087 --> 00:22:41,607
Speaker 2: spoke before about how the context going into this debate

458
00:22:41,687 --> 00:22:43,847
Speaker 2: is the honeymoon is over for Kamala and that since

459
00:22:43,887 --> 00:22:47,607
Speaker 2: the DNC since the convention, people haven't been talking about

460
00:22:47,647 --> 00:22:51,727
Speaker 2: her so much, and her campaign knows that today is

461
00:22:51,767 --> 00:22:55,207
Speaker 2: another one of those tent pole breakthrough. Everybody will be

462
00:22:55,247 --> 00:22:58,927
Speaker 2: talking about a the election B Kamala Harris today, so

463
00:22:59,007 --> 00:23:01,407
Speaker 2: maximize give them more things to talk about. It will

464
00:23:01,447 --> 00:23:02,047
Speaker 2: extend it.

465
00:23:02,167 --> 00:23:02,767
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.

466
00:23:03,567 --> 00:23:06,007
Speaker 2: If you are as obsessed as some of us are

467
00:23:06,087 --> 00:23:09,047
Speaker 2: indeed about the US election, then you'll be happy to

468
00:23:09,047 --> 00:23:12,527
Speaker 2: know that the brilliant Amelia Lester is going to join

469
00:23:12,647 --> 00:23:17,847
Speaker 2: us for a proper debrief and point by point unpacking

470
00:23:18,087 --> 00:23:21,327
Speaker 2: of the debate in a special subscriber episode that is

471
00:23:21,367 --> 00:23:23,847
Speaker 2: available tomorrow, So keep your eye up for that. We'll

472
00:23:23,847 --> 00:23:24,927
Speaker 2: put a link in the show notes.

473
00:23:36,807 --> 00:23:37,927
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really the way.

474
00:23:38,007 --> 00:23:40,567
Speaker 6: As a summer comes to an end, I cannot tell

475
00:23:40,607 --> 00:23:43,247
Speaker 6: you what a relief it is to have finally completed

476
00:23:43,287 --> 00:23:48,687
Speaker 6: my chemotherapy treatment. The last nine months have been incredibly

477
00:23:48,727 --> 00:23:51,447
Speaker 6: tough for us as a family. Life As you know,

478
00:23:51,487 --> 00:23:54,407
Speaker 6: it can change in an instant, and we've had to

479
00:23:54,447 --> 00:23:59,487
Speaker 6: find a way to navigate the stormy waters and road unknown.

480
00:24:01,247 --> 00:24:05,967
Speaker 6: The cancer journey is complex, scary, and unpredictable for everyone,

481
00:24:06,887 --> 00:24:08,407
Speaker 6: especially those closest to you.

482
00:24:10,047 --> 00:24:13,167
Speaker 2: We're in a forest, we're on a wind swept English beach,

483
00:24:13,607 --> 00:24:17,087
Speaker 2: we're always in natural fibers, and we are in Princess

484
00:24:17,167 --> 00:24:22,087
Speaker 2: Catherine's health update video. Yesterday via official channels, the Royals

485
00:24:22,127 --> 00:24:25,727
Speaker 2: released a three minute film that's a very long film

486
00:24:25,767 --> 00:24:27,767
Speaker 2: in social media time, by the way, three minutes.

487
00:24:27,807 --> 00:24:28,727
Speaker 3: It's not a real it's.

488
00:24:28,647 --> 00:24:31,447
Speaker 1: Very long video. It was almost a mini series.

489
00:24:31,847 --> 00:24:34,927
Speaker 2: And Catherine narrates telling us, as you just heard, that

490
00:24:35,007 --> 00:24:37,967
Speaker 2: she is through her chemotherapy and on her way to recovery,

491
00:24:38,007 --> 00:24:39,167
Speaker 2: planning on coming.

492
00:24:38,927 --> 00:24:39,567
Speaker 1: Back to work.

493
00:24:40,327 --> 00:24:42,807
Speaker 2: Now, I'm sure I know that in this conversation we're

494
00:24:42,807 --> 00:24:45,047
Speaker 2: about to have, we're going to analyze this video and

495
00:24:45,087 --> 00:24:47,767
Speaker 2: the strategy behind it and the pr planning that went

496
00:24:47,807 --> 00:24:50,607
Speaker 2: into it. But in a moment of earnestness, I have

497
00:24:50,727 --> 00:24:55,047
Speaker 2: to say I bloody loved this video. Every single person

498
00:24:55,167 --> 00:24:58,127
Speaker 2: I know who has been through a version of what

499
00:24:58,287 --> 00:25:00,807
Speaker 2: Kate has just been through and is still going through,

500
00:25:00,967 --> 00:25:03,607
Speaker 2: says what she says in this that it has profoundly

501
00:25:03,807 --> 00:25:08,247
Speaker 2: changed them, that their perspective has shifted in surprising or

502
00:25:08,287 --> 00:25:12,487
Speaker 2: in unsurprising. And my view is that these people, William

503
00:25:12,527 --> 00:25:15,127
Speaker 2: and Catherine, they don't have the option of silence. They

504
00:25:15,167 --> 00:25:17,647
Speaker 2: have to say something. We've seen what happens when they

505
00:25:17,647 --> 00:25:20,967
Speaker 2: don't say anything earlier this year, and so choosing how

506
00:25:21,007 --> 00:25:22,807
Speaker 2: to share this news was always going to be a

507
00:25:22,807 --> 00:25:24,447
Speaker 2: big deal and it was always going to get a

508
00:25:24,447 --> 00:25:27,847
Speaker 2: lot of scrutiny. What they chose to do was turned

509
00:25:27,887 --> 00:25:30,167
Speaker 2: to a guy that they've worked with before, a filmmaker

510
00:25:30,207 --> 00:25:33,447
Speaker 2: called will war who makes ads for things like uber eats,

511
00:25:33,487 --> 00:25:36,167
Speaker 2: but he's also the person who made their very similar

512
00:25:36,207 --> 00:25:39,967
Speaker 2: stylistically ten year wedding anniversary video and some of the

513
00:25:40,047 --> 00:25:43,567
Speaker 2: King's coronation films. To me, it felt very Harry and

514
00:25:43,607 --> 00:25:47,127
Speaker 2: Meghan Netflix doco Vibes, and Marina Hyde has written in

515
00:25:47,167 --> 00:25:51,087
Speaker 2: fact saying that the Meganification I like this word. The

516
00:25:51,167 --> 00:25:55,367
Speaker 2: Meganification of the royal family is in full swing. So Jesse,

517
00:25:55,687 --> 00:25:58,967
Speaker 2: let the analysis begin. Thoughts on our three minute video

518
00:25:59,007 --> 00:25:59,967
Speaker 2: from Catherine and William.

519
00:26:00,087 --> 00:26:02,527
Speaker 3: Firstly, I agree, I am so glad. A lot of

520
00:26:02,527 --> 00:26:04,567
Speaker 3: people said that they cried in the first ten to

521
00:26:04,607 --> 00:26:06,527
Speaker 3: fifteen seconds when they heard that she was okay, because

522
00:26:06,527 --> 00:26:09,167
Speaker 3: we've been waiting for an update and to see her

523
00:26:09,447 --> 00:26:12,727
Speaker 3: with those three little kids. I think we have all

524
00:26:12,767 --> 00:26:16,367
Speaker 3: known women who have lost their lives with little kids,

525
00:26:16,407 --> 00:26:17,927
Speaker 3: and there is a tragedy. What that does to a

526
00:26:18,007 --> 00:26:21,807
Speaker 3: family is just awful, and so I am so glad

527
00:26:21,887 --> 00:26:26,727
Speaker 3: that she is okay. This video I like to imagine

528
00:26:26,727 --> 00:26:29,887
Speaker 3: the briefing document because this video was about saying I

529
00:26:29,927 --> 00:26:31,647
Speaker 3: am now cancer free, but it was about a lot

530
00:26:31,687 --> 00:26:34,607
Speaker 3: of other things as well, right, Like, this was a

531
00:26:34,647 --> 00:26:37,487
Speaker 3: branding exercise, and there was a reason why it was

532
00:26:37,887 --> 00:26:41,727
Speaker 3: not a written statement from the palace. In fact, there

533
00:26:41,927 --> 00:26:45,287
Speaker 3: was no reference to anything royal. There was no palace,

534
00:26:45,407 --> 00:26:47,687
Speaker 3: there was no King Charles. It was a departure from

535
00:26:47,767 --> 00:26:50,887
Speaker 3: what we've seen. So I would like to analyze this

536
00:26:50,967 --> 00:26:52,967
Speaker 3: as though we are in year seven English, and there

537
00:26:53,007 --> 00:26:55,127
Speaker 3: are a few points I would like to make. The

538
00:26:55,167 --> 00:26:57,967
Speaker 3: first is that Kate is in the driver's seat. You'll

539
00:26:58,007 --> 00:27:00,167
Speaker 3: notice it's one of the first shots. She's back in

540
00:27:00,167 --> 00:27:02,967
Speaker 3: control of her life. Oh she is driving it. Yep, yep,

541
00:27:03,047 --> 00:27:06,207
Speaker 3: that's the symbolism there. Did we notice that she released

542
00:27:06,207 --> 00:27:08,767
Speaker 3: a butterfly. That's a symbol of metamorphosis.

543
00:27:09,647 --> 00:27:11,487
Speaker 2: Now, I think that was in the briefing.

544
00:27:11,447 --> 00:27:13,927
Speaker 3: I do, I do, or maybe not specifically, but like,

545
00:27:13,967 --> 00:27:17,327
Speaker 3: we have symbolism for metamorphosis, and that I have changed,

546
00:27:17,647 --> 00:27:21,887
Speaker 3: my perspective has changed. I'm a changed woman also blue.

547
00:27:22,247 --> 00:27:26,407
Speaker 3: So blue is Kate Middleton's color. And you'll notice that everyone,

548
00:27:26,447 --> 00:27:29,007
Speaker 3: even the kids, her and William, are all wearing different

549
00:27:29,007 --> 00:27:33,607
Speaker 3: shades of blue throughout the video and apparently it signifies

550
00:27:33,887 --> 00:27:36,607
Speaker 3: trust and stability. It is also as a family, their color,

551
00:27:36,927 --> 00:27:39,447
Speaker 3: but it is a color that is thought to evoke

552
00:27:39,527 --> 00:27:40,967
Speaker 3: trust and stability with people.

553
00:27:41,927 --> 00:27:43,607
Speaker 2: Color royal blue exactly right.

554
00:27:44,407 --> 00:27:46,887
Speaker 3: Now, did anyone else think it look like Kate was

555
00:27:46,927 --> 00:27:51,047
Speaker 3: releasing a folk album? Yes, yeah, it was a bit

556
00:27:51,087 --> 00:27:51,847
Speaker 3: folk album and.

557
00:27:51,807 --> 00:27:53,927
Speaker 2: It was a bit it will double for a music video.

558
00:27:54,127 --> 00:27:56,927
Speaker 3: Yes, well, this is very serious subject matter, but it

559
00:27:56,967 --> 00:27:59,367
Speaker 3: has also gone beyond viral. And there was a version

560
00:27:59,407 --> 00:28:01,927
Speaker 3: on Twitter where they put the succession the music under it,

561
00:28:01,967 --> 00:28:04,727
Speaker 3: and it was very funny. When I watched the whole thing,

562
00:28:04,727 --> 00:28:05,967
Speaker 3: and then I watched the whole thing again, and then

563
00:28:06,007 --> 00:28:09,567
Speaker 3: I watched the whole thing again. It was a bit unusual, like.

564
00:28:09,527 --> 00:28:12,647
Speaker 1: I buy that folk album just sorry, I've just gone

565
00:28:12,647 --> 00:28:14,807
Speaker 1: a fok album. It's the kind of album that I

566
00:28:14,847 --> 00:28:15,447
Speaker 1: really like.

567
00:28:15,847 --> 00:28:17,887
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes you feel things.

568
00:28:18,207 --> 00:28:20,567
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know what. None of us have

569
00:28:20,687 --> 00:28:24,607
Speaker 1: been through this, so I think that what also was

570
00:28:24,687 --> 00:28:29,367
Speaker 1: being conveyed to me by all of those bits were

571
00:28:29,767 --> 00:28:33,087
Speaker 1: a renewal of their relationship. And I think that whether

572
00:28:33,687 --> 00:28:38,167
Speaker 1: the affair rooms were true, there's no denying that something

573
00:28:38,207 --> 00:28:41,487
Speaker 1: like this is incredibly difficult. And also what they've gone

574
00:28:41,527 --> 00:28:46,127
Speaker 1: through with losing the Queen and then Charles's diagnosis, and

575
00:28:46,127 --> 00:28:49,007
Speaker 1: then Harry and Meghan and then all the accusations about

576
00:28:49,087 --> 00:28:51,487
Speaker 1: Kate that have come from Meghan and Harry and the

577
00:28:51,527 --> 00:28:54,047
Speaker 1: things he said in his book. They've had a time,

578
00:28:54,287 --> 00:28:59,807
Speaker 1: they really really have. And because they are not going

579
00:28:59,847 --> 00:29:03,367
Speaker 1: down the Harry Meghan route of talking to Oprah and

580
00:29:03,767 --> 00:29:08,287
Speaker 1: writing memoirs, they have to convey messages in other ways,

581
00:29:08,567 --> 00:29:10,727
Speaker 1: and I think this was the way to do that.

582
00:29:10,847 --> 00:29:13,327
Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting to me how they stepped

583
00:29:13,407 --> 00:29:16,007
Speaker 1: up their entire strategy. To me, this is what the

584
00:29:16,087 --> 00:29:19,807
Speaker 1: Royal Family has to be into the future, and I

585
00:29:19,807 --> 00:29:23,407
Speaker 1: think they get that because people aren't interested so much.

586
00:29:23,527 --> 00:29:25,807
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess there's a place for ribbon cutting

587
00:29:25,887 --> 00:29:28,447
Speaker 1: and being on balconies, but the point of the Royal

588
00:29:28,527 --> 00:29:32,287
Speaker 1: family is really decorative, and I think when you drill

589
00:29:32,367 --> 00:29:35,567
Speaker 1: even further into that, and what the read was for

590
00:29:35,687 --> 00:29:39,047
Speaker 1: me in this Kate video, is that the point of Kate,

591
00:29:39,847 --> 00:29:42,447
Speaker 1: because she's not ever going to be, you know, on

592
00:29:42,487 --> 00:29:45,207
Speaker 1: the throne. She's not in the line of success. She's

593
00:29:45,247 --> 00:29:47,647
Speaker 1: going to be not herself, you know what I mean.

594
00:29:47,887 --> 00:29:49,967
Speaker 1: It's not about her, It's about Charles, and then it's

595
00:29:49,967 --> 00:29:51,487
Speaker 1: about William, and then it's going to be about their

596
00:29:51,487 --> 00:29:56,207
Speaker 1: son George. So she's literally an accouterment to whoever's on

597
00:29:56,247 --> 00:29:56,647
Speaker 1: the phone.

598
00:29:57,287 --> 00:29:58,167
Speaker 2: She is gone.

599
00:29:58,247 --> 00:30:02,407
Speaker 1: But the point is that the role of her and

600
00:30:02,527 --> 00:30:07,327
Speaker 1: princesses is to perform this idea of femininity. I thought

601
00:30:07,327 --> 00:30:09,207
Speaker 1: it was really interesting that she was in address because

602
00:30:09,487 --> 00:30:11,607
Speaker 1: Kate doesn't usually wear a dress except when she's at

603
00:30:11,607 --> 00:30:14,127
Speaker 1: like big royal things, like we usually see her in

604
00:30:14,647 --> 00:30:19,247
Speaker 1: skinny jeans or pants. She's pretty sensible. She's sort of

605
00:30:19,247 --> 00:30:24,927
Speaker 1: that sporty country English gal. And I think, you know, again,

606
00:30:24,967 --> 00:30:27,447
Speaker 1: this isn't personal, and everybody gets to do whatever they want.

607
00:30:27,447 --> 00:30:30,007
Speaker 1: This isn't about her. I'm talking about what she symbolizes,

608
00:30:30,687 --> 00:30:34,407
Speaker 1: this idea that no matter whether she's just been diagnosed

609
00:30:34,407 --> 00:30:36,487
Speaker 1: with cancer, whether she's in the middle of her treatment,

610
00:30:36,767 --> 00:30:39,567
Speaker 1: we have never seen her look anything other than immaculate

611
00:30:39,607 --> 00:30:42,567
Speaker 1: because that is her job. And I feel like, firstly,

612
00:30:42,607 --> 00:30:47,447
Speaker 1: the pressure on her and secondly that isn't a very

613
00:30:47,887 --> 00:30:51,287
Speaker 1: modern approach. It's a little bit more I guess. I

614
00:30:51,327 --> 00:30:53,047
Speaker 1: don't want to say it's in authentic, but it's more

615
00:30:53,087 --> 00:30:55,047
Speaker 1: pulling back the curtain. That's what we're more used to.

616
00:30:55,327 --> 00:30:58,847
Speaker 2: But the rhyme authentic to her, you know, I mean,

617
00:30:59,487 --> 00:31:01,447
Speaker 2: she is going to be the queen. She is one

618
00:31:01,447 --> 00:31:03,727
Speaker 2: of the most important people in that family. There is

619
00:31:03,767 --> 00:31:05,927
Speaker 2: an argument that she is the most important person in

620
00:31:05,927 --> 00:31:07,767
Speaker 2: that family because people are always going to be much

621
00:31:07,767 --> 00:31:09,647
Speaker 2: more interested in her than they are in him, because

622
00:31:09,647 --> 00:31:12,367
Speaker 2: she's a woman. That's the way it works. But the

623
00:31:12,447 --> 00:31:14,527
Speaker 2: thing that I take from this is that they have

624
00:31:14,607 --> 00:31:17,087
Speaker 2: stepped their game up enormously. As you've said me, although

625
00:31:17,127 --> 00:31:19,927
Speaker 2: it's interesting because I said that and I said, you know,

626
00:31:20,007 --> 00:31:22,047
Speaker 2: this is a departure in strategy, But then when I

627
00:31:22,127 --> 00:31:24,407
Speaker 2: realized that this same guy made their ten year anniversary

628
00:31:24,447 --> 00:31:25,687
Speaker 2: video and you go back and look at that, it's

629
00:31:25,767 --> 00:31:28,847
Speaker 2: much the same, right, But they've stepped up their strategy

630
00:31:29,447 --> 00:31:33,367
Speaker 2: significantly in comms of how to talk about this story,

631
00:31:33,767 --> 00:31:37,167
Speaker 2: because it feels almost insane now that we were all

632
00:31:37,407 --> 00:31:41,607
Speaker 2: so obsessed with the Where's Kate's story earlier this year,

633
00:31:41,927 --> 00:31:44,767
Speaker 2: and it feels a bit gruesome and macab but the

634
00:31:44,767 --> 00:31:47,847
Speaker 2: truth of it is that fascination is never going to

635
00:31:47,887 --> 00:31:50,127
Speaker 2: go away, so they have to work out how to

636
00:31:50,167 --> 00:31:52,767
Speaker 2: play it. And I've read some commentary like that Marina

637
00:31:52,847 --> 00:31:55,687
Speaker 2: Hyde piece that kind of says, oh, it's a bit tacky,

638
00:31:55,887 --> 00:31:58,847
Speaker 2: like do they really owe us this? Do they really

639
00:31:58,887 --> 00:32:01,527
Speaker 2: owe us this glimpse into their family? There's always going

640
00:32:01,607 --> 00:32:04,087
Speaker 2: to be this argument that really the royals should be

641
00:32:05,127 --> 00:32:08,687
Speaker 2: above this kind of stuff, But the truth of it is,

642
00:32:08,687 --> 00:32:12,327
Speaker 2: as you say, these days, they can't afford to be

643
00:32:12,367 --> 00:32:15,087
Speaker 2: above this kind of stuff because otherwise everybody else is

644
00:32:15,087 --> 00:32:17,887
Speaker 2: telling their story. And although everyone's going to tell their

645
00:32:17,927 --> 00:32:20,287
Speaker 2: story anyway, you know, they're going to read into as

646
00:32:20,287 --> 00:32:22,727
Speaker 2: we're doing right now, like are they really as happy

647
00:32:22,727 --> 00:32:23,647
Speaker 2: as they appear on the beach?

648
00:32:23,687 --> 00:32:24,567
Speaker 3: And da da da da da.

649
00:32:24,607 --> 00:32:27,167
Speaker 2: People are still going to do that, but they have

650
00:32:27,287 --> 00:32:31,047
Speaker 2: to control it. And it's interesting because when the terrible

651
00:32:31,047 --> 00:32:34,847
Speaker 2: pr disaster of how this whole announcement of Kate's health

652
00:32:34,887 --> 00:32:38,727
Speaker 2: issues rolled out, and with hindsight you can see what

653
00:32:38,767 --> 00:32:41,607
Speaker 2: a very difficult message that was to work out how

654
00:32:41,607 --> 00:32:44,327
Speaker 2: to tell, and probably the fuss about the photo and

655
00:32:44,367 --> 00:32:47,727
Speaker 2: all that was really overblown. But they are learning, they

656
00:32:47,727 --> 00:32:50,927
Speaker 2: are changing, They are playing Harry and Meghan's game. This

657
00:32:51,087 --> 00:32:53,967
Speaker 2: did look like a lot of the stock footage in

658
00:32:54,007 --> 00:32:57,847
Speaker 2: that documentary, and I hope that this is where they're going,

659
00:32:58,007 --> 00:33:01,087
Speaker 2: that they're going to start giving controlled glimpses, which they

660
00:33:01,127 --> 00:33:03,647
Speaker 2: always have to appoint. She's released images of the family

661
00:33:03,647 --> 00:33:06,207
Speaker 2: that she takes and all those things. But it's interesting.

662
00:33:06,367 --> 00:33:08,327
Speaker 2: They have a job right now if anyone's into it.

663
00:33:09,247 --> 00:33:12,487
Speaker 2: Communications officer for Wills and Kate is on LinkedIn right now.

664
00:33:12,647 --> 00:33:14,607
Speaker 2: It only got posted on September the third.

665
00:33:14,767 --> 00:33:15,687
Speaker 3: I think you could do that.

666
00:33:15,767 --> 00:33:17,607
Speaker 2: I would love it. Maybe I'm going to go back

667
00:33:17,607 --> 00:33:19,367
Speaker 2: to England and work at Kensington Palace.

668
00:33:19,527 --> 00:33:22,567
Speaker 3: I think the really smart move was that it was

669
00:33:22,727 --> 00:33:25,287
Speaker 3: just Kate's voice. We don't hear Kate's voice very often,

670
00:33:25,327 --> 00:33:28,007
Speaker 3: and this was her voice for three minutes. There was

671
00:33:28,087 --> 00:33:30,527
Speaker 3: nothing from William. I think if this was ten years ago,

672
00:33:30,567 --> 00:33:32,767
Speaker 3: it almost would have been William's statement to talk about

673
00:33:32,807 --> 00:33:35,607
Speaker 3: how the family is faring. And the other moment that

674
00:33:35,647 --> 00:33:37,887
Speaker 3: stood out to me was when the kids spoke to

675
00:33:37,927 --> 00:33:40,327
Speaker 3: the camera. That was kind of candid. It was the

676
00:33:40,407 --> 00:33:42,287
Speaker 3: kids kind of playing with the camera and we heard

677
00:33:42,287 --> 00:33:44,887
Speaker 3: their voices, which I don't think I had heard their

678
00:33:44,967 --> 00:33:50,367
Speaker 3: voices before. But there is something very aspirational and idealized

679
00:33:50,407 --> 00:33:54,287
Speaker 3: about this family, which, as a millennial who has grown

680
00:33:54,367 --> 00:33:57,887
Speaker 3: up on the grittiness of social media, does look a

681
00:33:57,927 --> 00:34:00,407
Speaker 3: little bit out of touch. It's very kind of the

682
00:34:00,487 --> 00:34:03,247
Speaker 3: early influences, with their perfect kitchens and their eye and

683
00:34:03,327 --> 00:34:05,327
Speaker 3: clothes and all of that that I kind of went,

684
00:34:05,567 --> 00:34:07,607
Speaker 3: this isn't what a family looks like, but it's not

685
00:34:07,647 --> 00:34:08,247
Speaker 3: their job.

686
00:34:08,447 --> 00:34:10,887
Speaker 2: And also authentic to them, right, So you know the

687
00:34:10,927 --> 00:34:13,607
Speaker 2: stuff of her wandering around in forests, She's written and

688
00:34:13,687 --> 00:34:15,847
Speaker 2: talked about that a lot. Forest bathing, how she thinks

689
00:34:15,887 --> 00:34:19,127
Speaker 2: it's really important, Like, this is what they do. They

690
00:34:19,167 --> 00:34:22,167
Speaker 2: walk around in woods, they roll around on beaches.

691
00:34:22,527 --> 00:34:23,647
Speaker 1: What's forest bathing?

692
00:34:23,967 --> 00:34:24,927
Speaker 2: Walking in the woods.

693
00:34:25,407 --> 00:34:28,487
Speaker 1: Oh, it's not actually bathing in a forest in a river,

694
00:34:28,927 --> 00:34:29,407
Speaker 1: it's just.

695
00:34:29,327 --> 00:34:30,647
Speaker 2: Walking in the worlds well bathe.

696
00:34:30,727 --> 00:34:33,327
Speaker 1: Oh god, no, I think what's interesting. And you're right,

697
00:34:33,367 --> 00:34:35,447
Speaker 1: I should clarify when I say not authentic, I don't

698
00:34:35,487 --> 00:34:39,767
Speaker 1: mean as you say authentic for them. It's not necessarily

699
00:34:39,807 --> 00:34:43,367
Speaker 1: reflective of what someone looks like when they've gone through cancer,

700
00:34:43,807 --> 00:34:47,567
Speaker 1: during treatment and after treatment. And I think that possibly

701
00:34:47,567 --> 00:34:50,687
Speaker 1: if I was a person who has experienced cancer, is

702
00:34:50,687 --> 00:34:54,567
Speaker 1: still going through it. I would feel a little unrepresented,

703
00:34:54,647 --> 00:34:57,167
Speaker 1: but that's not necessarily her job, although she does say

704
00:34:57,247 --> 00:35:00,007
Speaker 1: I want to be a voice for you, but the

705
00:35:00,127 --> 00:35:02,207
Speaker 1: rules of being royal and the rules of being a

706
00:35:02,287 --> 00:35:06,047
Speaker 1: royal woman will never allow her to look anything less

707
00:35:06,087 --> 00:35:08,887
Speaker 1: than perfect, never ever, ever. But I think that the

708
00:35:08,927 --> 00:35:11,487
Speaker 1: other side text in this whole thing is a real

709
00:35:11,807 --> 00:35:16,647
Speaker 1: message to Harry and Megan, because their whole narrative about

710
00:35:16,647 --> 00:35:19,367
Speaker 1: why they had to leave the royal family and move

711
00:35:19,407 --> 00:35:22,927
Speaker 1: to America is because of what they wanted for their children.

712
00:35:22,967 --> 00:35:25,567
Speaker 1: They wanted their children and their family to be able

713
00:35:25,647 --> 00:35:29,407
Speaker 1: to have loving relationship and affectionate and to be able

714
00:35:29,447 --> 00:35:32,447
Speaker 1: to do normal things and not be in the spotlight.

715
00:35:32,527 --> 00:35:35,367
Speaker 1: And they wanted you know that he really painted himself

716
00:35:35,407 --> 00:35:39,007
Speaker 1: as a very different person to his cold brother and

717
00:35:39,087 --> 00:35:42,247
Speaker 1: his cold father who did everything for the press, and

718
00:35:42,647 --> 00:35:45,647
Speaker 1: that married just a dutiful person who came along, who

719
00:35:45,727 --> 00:35:48,447
Speaker 1: ticked boxes, which we imagine how insulting that was to

720
00:35:48,447 --> 00:35:50,887
Speaker 1: both of them, but especially Kate, and I think that

721
00:35:50,927 --> 00:35:54,567
Speaker 1: what this video said very clearly was no, No, we

722
00:35:54,607 --> 00:35:56,807
Speaker 1: are still in the royal family. We're still in line

723
00:35:56,847 --> 00:35:59,087
Speaker 1: to the throne. Don't try to say that we don't

724
00:35:59,167 --> 00:36:02,687
Speaker 1: have a loving, beautiful family and that we're not affectionate,

725
00:36:02,807 --> 00:36:05,007
Speaker 1: or that this is all just for show, because we

726
00:36:05,087 --> 00:36:07,927
Speaker 1: are a very normal like it showed them as good parents,

727
00:36:08,047 --> 00:36:10,687
Speaker 1: showed William is a really good dad. That's the mantle

728
00:36:10,727 --> 00:36:13,647
Speaker 1: Harry and Megan are trying to have that we're the

729
00:36:13,687 --> 00:36:16,887
Speaker 1: ones that care about acudes. And Harry very explicitly wrote

730
00:36:16,887 --> 00:36:19,887
Speaker 1: in his book, I'm worried for my niece and my

731
00:36:19,927 --> 00:36:23,127
Speaker 1: nephews growing up in that system, and it was so

732
00:36:23,567 --> 00:36:28,607
Speaker 1: out of line and so controlling, you know, through overconcern

733
00:36:28,727 --> 00:36:31,847
Speaker 1: this idea of only I can give my children a

734
00:36:31,847 --> 00:36:34,927
Speaker 1: happy life away from the royal bubble. And I think

735
00:36:34,967 --> 00:36:37,087
Speaker 1: this was very much a message in response to that.

736
00:36:37,327 --> 00:36:39,407
Speaker 2: And he clearly is a good dad. He only had

737
00:36:39,407 --> 00:36:41,927
Speaker 2: to watch the Taylor Swift concert video to see that.

738
00:36:42,447 --> 00:36:45,327
Speaker 2: You know, that wasn't happening two generations ago. If you

739
00:36:45,367 --> 00:36:49,127
Speaker 2: want to hear more royal thoughts, particularly from me, listen

740
00:36:49,127 --> 00:36:51,687
Speaker 2: to today's quickie we talk about this. We also it's

741
00:36:51,687 --> 00:36:54,127
Speaker 2: going to be a big time in royals guys, because

742
00:36:54,167 --> 00:36:55,607
Speaker 2: it's Harry's fortieth on the weekend.

743
00:36:55,887 --> 00:36:56,127
Speaker 1: Yep.

744
00:36:56,247 --> 00:36:58,207
Speaker 2: Everybody wants to know is the King going to post

745
00:36:58,247 --> 00:37:00,167
Speaker 2: about it. How is the family going to handle that?

746
00:37:00,327 --> 00:37:04,327
Speaker 2: He's inheriting sixteen million dollars pounds on that day. Next

747
00:37:04,327 --> 00:37:07,047
Speaker 2: week the first of two films about Prince Andrew and

748
00:37:07,087 --> 00:37:10,167
Speaker 2: that disastrous newsnight in If Who comes out, it's going

749
00:37:10,207 --> 00:37:11,527
Speaker 2: to be a big deal. There's going to be lots

750
00:37:11,527 --> 00:37:13,487
Speaker 2: to talk about that. If you want to hear about

751
00:37:13,527 --> 00:37:16,567
Speaker 2: all the royal gossip news, we won't call it gossip,

752
00:37:16,647 --> 00:37:18,207
Speaker 2: We'll call it news. If you want to hear all

753
00:37:18,207 --> 00:37:20,327
Speaker 2: the royal news, go listen to the Quickie. There's a

754
00:37:20,367 --> 00:37:21,207
Speaker 2: link in the show notes.

755
00:37:26,567 --> 00:37:37,367
Speaker 3: Hell every Tuesday and Thursday we drop new segments of

756
00:37:37,407 --> 00:37:41,327
Speaker 3: Mummeya out Loud just for Mummeya subscribers. Follow the link

757
00:37:41,367 --> 00:37:43,407
Speaker 3: in the show notes to get your daily doseph out

758
00:37:43,447 --> 00:37:46,807
Speaker 3: Loud and a big thank you to all our current subscribers.

759
00:37:54,527 --> 00:37:59,047
Speaker 3: This week, Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi announced his government would

760
00:37:59,087 --> 00:38:02,167
Speaker 3: be banning kids from using social media. Here's what he

761
00:38:02,247 --> 00:38:03,527
Speaker 3: said on ABC News.

762
00:38:03,767 --> 00:38:07,007
Speaker 7: We're looking at the range between fourteen and sixteen. That's

763
00:38:07,047 --> 00:38:09,727
Speaker 7: one of the reasons why we're having a trial, and

764
00:38:09,767 --> 00:38:11,807
Speaker 7: what we're looking at is how you deliver it. This

765
00:38:12,007 --> 00:38:15,687
Speaker 7: is a global issue that governments around the globe are

766
00:38:15,727 --> 00:38:18,447
Speaker 7: trying to deal with and so we can look at

767
00:38:18,487 --> 00:38:22,047
Speaker 7: the experience, look at the response as well of social

768
00:38:22,127 --> 00:38:27,327
Speaker 7: media companies. Social media has a social responsibility in order

769
00:38:27,407 --> 00:38:31,207
Speaker 7: to have that social license that they require to operate

770
00:38:31,647 --> 00:38:36,047
Speaker 7: in a decent society. They're not above everyone else. They

771
00:38:36,087 --> 00:38:39,727
Speaker 7: can't just say we're a big multinational company, we can

772
00:38:39,767 --> 00:38:43,487
Speaker 7: do whatever we like, regardless of the harm that's being caused.

773
00:38:43,727 --> 00:38:46,327
Speaker 3: By the end of this year, the Albanesi government vows

774
00:38:46,367 --> 00:38:49,447
Speaker 3: to impose a minimum age to use platforms like Facebook

775
00:38:49,487 --> 00:38:53,367
Speaker 3: and Instagram, although what that age is, as Albanezi said,

776
00:38:53,487 --> 00:38:57,047
Speaker 3: has not been determined yet. The cutoff age won't be

777
00:38:57,127 --> 00:39:01,807
Speaker 3: revealed until the government's trial of age verification technology is completed,

778
00:39:02,207 --> 00:39:04,567
Speaker 3: so without getting too technical, there are a few different

779
00:39:04,567 --> 00:39:08,087
Speaker 3: ways you can determine the age of a user, from

780
00:39:08,287 --> 00:39:12,327
Speaker 3: parental concers vent to estimating the user's age based on

781
00:39:12,647 --> 00:39:18,487
Speaker 3: their appearance to systems with ID. The move has bipartisan support, However,

782
00:39:18,487 --> 00:39:21,927
Speaker 3: the Greens have opposed the legislation, saying they would prefer

783
00:39:22,247 --> 00:39:27,047
Speaker 3: harm education over a blunt ban. Many countries around the

784
00:39:27,047 --> 00:39:29,767
Speaker 3: world are working on age limits for social media apps,

785
00:39:29,807 --> 00:39:34,407
Speaker 3: although the enforcement varies, and as Alberanizi has said as

786
00:39:34,407 --> 00:39:37,847
Speaker 3: of yet, no country in the world has solved this problem.

787
00:39:38,527 --> 00:39:41,127
Speaker 3: While some are in total support of introducing the ban,

788
00:39:41,527 --> 00:39:45,567
Speaker 3: some advocacy groups say social media is critical for marginalized

789
00:39:45,567 --> 00:39:48,367
Speaker 3: teens to find a sense of community and belonging, and

790
00:39:48,407 --> 00:39:51,567
Speaker 3: it could also limit their access to news and current affairs.

791
00:39:52,207 --> 00:39:55,487
Speaker 3: Another problem is the ways in which teens might find

792
00:39:55,567 --> 00:39:58,847
Speaker 3: workarounds spreading into darker corners of the internet with even

793
00:39:59,047 --> 00:40:02,447
Speaker 3: less regulation. Maya what do you make of the ban?

794
00:40:02,807 --> 00:40:05,247
Speaker 1: I think it's great. I hope it's still they're sixteen.

795
00:40:05,367 --> 00:40:07,247
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that kids will work a way

796
00:40:07,287 --> 00:40:12,247
Speaker 1: around it. But I they am really disappointed at the

797
00:40:12,287 --> 00:40:14,927
Speaker 1: cynical nature of the Greens and the way that they're

798
00:40:14,927 --> 00:40:19,847
Speaker 1: opposing this because they know that their base are traditionally younger,

799
00:40:20,127 --> 00:40:23,607
Speaker 1: So Greens voters tend to skiw younger. They're probably less

800
00:40:23,767 --> 00:40:27,127
Speaker 1: likely to have kids because they are younger, or if

801
00:40:27,127 --> 00:40:29,327
Speaker 1: they do have kids, they won't be at the age

802
00:40:29,327 --> 00:40:33,167
Speaker 1: where they've seen the detrimental effects of social media on

803
00:40:33,207 --> 00:40:36,527
Speaker 1: their kids. So I think that the closer you are

804
00:40:37,367 --> 00:40:40,767
Speaker 1: to being a teenager, and the less experience you have

805
00:40:41,287 --> 00:40:44,567
Speaker 1: either as an educator or as a parent with the

806
00:40:44,607 --> 00:40:48,367
Speaker 1: harmful effects of social media, the less likely you are

807
00:40:48,407 --> 00:40:51,327
Speaker 1: to understand or support this band. The idea of harm

808
00:40:51,367 --> 00:40:54,807
Speaker 1: minimization is better. I mean, come on, you know you

809
00:40:54,887 --> 00:40:58,087
Speaker 1: tried telling a teenager, oh, this is not good for

810
00:40:58,167 --> 00:41:02,127
Speaker 1: your mental health. What parents are saying is that if

811
00:41:02,127 --> 00:41:05,247
Speaker 1: it's just us trying to make these bands and put

812
00:41:05,287 --> 00:41:08,487
Speaker 1: these restrictions on our kids ourselves, Firstly, we're not equipped

813
00:41:08,487 --> 00:41:10,727
Speaker 1: to do it because we know how literally we don't

814
00:41:10,727 --> 00:41:13,127
Speaker 1: know how to stop them from getting on the platforms.

815
00:41:13,487 --> 00:41:17,687
Speaker 1: And secondly, it stigmatizes you kid, because unless you join

816
00:41:17,767 --> 00:41:20,727
Speaker 1: forces with everybody in their class and everybody that they know,

817
00:41:21,607 --> 00:41:23,967
Speaker 1: it makes them an outlier and it can make things

818
00:41:24,007 --> 00:41:26,527
Speaker 1: really really hard and can just connect them socially. So

819
00:41:26,967 --> 00:41:31,047
Speaker 1: there are certain things that governments have to control, and

820
00:41:31,447 --> 00:41:33,967
Speaker 1: we've seen that the tech companies are incapable of doing

821
00:41:33,967 --> 00:41:36,047
Speaker 1: it themselves. So I'm all for it.

822
00:41:36,047 --> 00:41:38,767
Speaker 2: It's interesting because I agree with you Mia to a point,

823
00:41:39,127 --> 00:41:42,247
Speaker 2: But then I've read all the counter arguments and some

824
00:41:42,287 --> 00:41:44,727
Speaker 2: of them are really interesting. But the thing that always

825
00:41:44,767 --> 00:41:47,967
Speaker 2: falls apart on it for me is we're not talking

826
00:41:48,047 --> 00:41:50,607
Speaker 2: about banning children from the internet like I would have

827
00:41:50,647 --> 00:41:53,647
Speaker 2: more sympathy from that idea of it cuts them off

828
00:41:53,687 --> 00:41:56,527
Speaker 2: from news and current affairs, it stops them from community building.

829
00:41:57,127 --> 00:41:59,447
Speaker 2: You know, it's ridiculous to think that you can't have

830
00:41:59,567 --> 00:42:02,607
Speaker 2: children's Internet just like you have children's TV. No one

831
00:42:02,647 --> 00:42:05,687
Speaker 2: is suggesting that children shouldn't be allowed on the internet, right.

832
00:42:05,807 --> 00:42:09,087
Speaker 2: What they're talking about is these very specific platforms and

833
00:42:09,247 --> 00:42:14,207
Speaker 2: aimed so far at Instagram, TikTok, snapchat. Discord is about

834
00:42:14,287 --> 00:42:17,087
Speaker 2: those platforms, so kids will still have access to all

835
00:42:17,167 --> 00:42:19,487
Speaker 2: kinds of things, and that you know, no one's talking about.

836
00:42:19,887 --> 00:42:21,847
Speaker 2: They're not allowed on the Internet. They're not allowed to

837
00:42:21,887 --> 00:42:23,487
Speaker 2: talk to anybody, they're not allowed to gain, they're not

838
00:42:23,487 --> 00:42:25,487
Speaker 2: allowed to communicate. That's not what this is about. This

839
00:42:25,607 --> 00:42:28,047
Speaker 2: is about putting restrictions on those giant companies. And I

840
00:42:28,127 --> 00:42:31,767
Speaker 2: agree with Albo on that point that these social media

841
00:42:31,807 --> 00:42:35,767
Speaker 2: platforms do have a responsibility, and they are becoming the

842
00:42:35,807 --> 00:42:38,567
Speaker 2: world's richest and most powerful people and then putting their

843
00:42:38,567 --> 00:42:41,007
Speaker 2: hands up and going, it's got nothing to do with us.

844
00:42:41,207 --> 00:42:44,407
Speaker 2: These terrible issues that are occurring with kids' mental health

845
00:42:44,447 --> 00:42:46,647
Speaker 2: and suicidality and all this stuff nothing to do with us.

846
00:42:46,687 --> 00:42:49,407
Speaker 2: You know, that's definitely parents' responsibility. I agree with mea

847
00:42:49,487 --> 00:42:52,847
Speaker 2: a million percent about the idea that parents can't fight

848
00:42:52,927 --> 00:42:56,967
Speaker 2: that alone. The only thing is I find it fascinating

849
00:42:57,007 --> 00:42:59,527
Speaker 2: because it's a really big deal. If it happens, it

850
00:42:59,567 --> 00:43:03,127
Speaker 2: affects all kinds of things. Think about for example, and

851
00:43:03,327 --> 00:43:08,167
Speaker 2: a bubble like tween and teen skincare obsession, which has

852
00:43:08,207 --> 00:43:13,407
Speaker 2: been entirely fueled by TikTok. It literally changed economies because

853
00:43:13,407 --> 00:43:15,767
Speaker 2: you're not supposed to market directly to children products that

854
00:43:15,767 --> 00:43:18,807
Speaker 2: aren't for children. But these social media platforms have allowed

855
00:43:18,847 --> 00:43:22,527
Speaker 2: businesses and companies to get around that unregulated and unfettered

856
00:43:22,567 --> 00:43:24,327
Speaker 2: for a really long time by saying, well, that's not

857
00:43:24,367 --> 00:43:26,567
Speaker 2: really what we're doing. It's just that the kids really

858
00:43:26,607 --> 00:43:28,727
Speaker 2: like what we're putting out there. It's like, no, that's

859
00:43:28,767 --> 00:43:30,407
Speaker 2: not why my twelve year old is asking me for

860
00:43:30,407 --> 00:43:32,247
Speaker 2: a hundred dollars serum. You know what I mean. It's

861
00:43:32,287 --> 00:43:35,607
Speaker 2: not that. So this will have massive implications in lots

862
00:43:35,607 --> 00:43:38,887
Speaker 2: of ways, which is good. There's a bit of me

863
00:43:38,967 --> 00:43:41,767
Speaker 2: that's sad because I think, if and when it happens,

864
00:43:41,967 --> 00:43:44,407
Speaker 2: I know that my children will probably be the guinea

865
00:43:44,447 --> 00:43:47,487
Speaker 2: pig generation in that I'll probably look back in a

866
00:43:47,527 --> 00:43:49,327
Speaker 2: few years and go I cannot believe I let my

867
00:43:49,407 --> 00:43:51,807
Speaker 2: daughter on TikTok when she was thirteen, will feel like

868
00:43:51,887 --> 00:43:55,367
Speaker 2: I was handing her a cigarette or a bottle of brandy,

869
00:43:55,767 --> 00:43:57,207
Speaker 2: Like Aura, I don't think you.

870
00:43:57,687 --> 00:43:59,487
Speaker 3: I don't think parents have a whole lot of control

871
00:43:59,567 --> 00:44:03,047
Speaker 3: right now, and we don't the public data that's come

872
00:44:03,047 --> 00:44:05,887
Speaker 3: out this comes after this release that said there's been

873
00:44:06,127 --> 00:44:09,207
Speaker 3: you know, an increase in mental health hospitalizations and psychological

874
00:44:09,407 --> 00:44:14,047
Speaker 3: stress among young people. That is a statistical reality. And

875
00:44:14,407 --> 00:44:18,167
Speaker 3: the increase is worse among women and girls aged sixteen

876
00:44:18,327 --> 00:44:21,167
Speaker 3: to twenty four. And so this has come out. All

877
00:44:21,207 --> 00:44:23,327
Speaker 3: of these studies have come out, and some will say

878
00:44:24,047 --> 00:44:27,527
Speaker 3: just because mobile phones coexist at the same time as

879
00:44:28,007 --> 00:44:31,407
Speaker 3: young people's mental health is deteriorating, doesn't mean one causes

880
00:44:31,447 --> 00:44:35,247
Speaker 3: the other. They say, correlation not causation. To that, I say,

881
00:44:35,527 --> 00:44:39,207
Speaker 3: speak to any teacher or any parent and ask them

882
00:44:39,247 --> 00:44:43,047
Speaker 3: what they think, or specifically, any parent who has lost

883
00:44:43,127 --> 00:44:46,767
Speaker 3: a child to you know, mental health issues or is

884
00:44:46,767 --> 00:44:49,967
Speaker 3: currently experiencing severe mental health issues, and they will tell

885
00:44:50,047 --> 00:44:52,847
Speaker 3: you the same thing. There have been a lot of

886
00:44:52,887 --> 00:44:56,087
Speaker 3: advocates that have been interviewed. One I saw this was

887
00:44:56,127 --> 00:45:00,287
Speaker 3: in Australia and she lost her daughter to suicide, and

888
00:45:00,367 --> 00:45:02,927
Speaker 3: she went on her daughter's phone afterwards and had a

889
00:45:02,967 --> 00:45:06,007
Speaker 3: look at what she was being served on TikTok, and

890
00:45:06,127 --> 00:45:10,527
Speaker 3: it was so distressing what that our Go rhythm had done.

891
00:45:10,647 --> 00:45:13,447
Speaker 3: It was wall to wall girls who felt the same

892
00:45:13,487 --> 00:45:17,847
Speaker 3: as her, girls who were speaking very very candidly about dying.

893
00:45:18,287 --> 00:45:21,167
Speaker 3: Like any mental health expert would say, you can't look

894
00:45:21,167 --> 00:45:25,407
Speaker 3: at that. It's contagious. So the ban, I think is

895
00:45:25,447 --> 00:45:27,607
Speaker 3: one thing, and a lot of people then go the ban,

896
00:45:28,047 --> 00:45:30,207
Speaker 3: how about X, Y and Z. I don't think this

897
00:45:30,327 --> 00:45:34,007
Speaker 3: is in isolation. I also think that algorithms, that's a

898
00:45:34,007 --> 00:45:36,927
Speaker 3: big one. Algorithms for young people are really bad because

899
00:45:36,967 --> 00:45:39,847
Speaker 3: they radicalize them and they take them down into rabbit holes.

900
00:45:39,847 --> 00:45:43,447
Speaker 3: So that's another thing that could be addressed. But I

901
00:45:43,487 --> 00:45:46,807
Speaker 3: find this attitude of something has to be done, something

902
00:45:46,847 --> 00:45:49,047
Speaker 3: has to be done, and then they choose something. This

903
00:45:49,167 --> 00:45:52,407
Speaker 3: keeps happening. The e Safety commissioner or the government chooses

904
00:45:52,407 --> 00:45:56,567
Speaker 3: something and everyone yells not that, or I've even heard

905
00:45:56,687 --> 00:45:58,687
Speaker 3: people say, well, it's not gonna work.

906
00:45:58,727 --> 00:45:59,527
Speaker 2: It's not gonna work.

907
00:45:59,807 --> 00:46:03,087
Speaker 3: I think that's defeatist and a country has to be

908
00:46:03,407 --> 00:46:05,767
Speaker 3: the first country to work it out. There are big

909
00:46:05,807 --> 00:46:09,047
Speaker 3: problems facing the world. Look at what AI can do.

910
00:46:09,367 --> 00:46:10,927
Speaker 3: You can't tell me that there isn't a solution.

911
00:46:11,487 --> 00:46:13,807
Speaker 2: Per Countries all over the world are grappling with this.

912
00:46:14,127 --> 00:46:16,087
Speaker 2: So the tech companies are going to say that this

913
00:46:16,167 --> 00:46:19,007
Speaker 2: is extreme. In Australia's idea is extreme, but countries are

914
00:46:19,007 --> 00:46:21,407
Speaker 2: all over the world are trying to fix this. The

915
00:46:21,447 --> 00:46:24,287
Speaker 2: first thing that everybody says, and this including parents who

916
00:46:25,007 --> 00:46:28,407
Speaker 2: like myself a bullseye in this demo of our kids

917
00:46:28,487 --> 00:46:31,047
Speaker 2: living on social media to a point, and we do

918
00:46:31,127 --> 00:46:34,047
Speaker 2: our best with our earnest like not until you're this age.

919
00:46:34,247 --> 00:46:36,487
Speaker 2: And but you know, I'm going to put these filters

920
00:46:36,527 --> 00:46:38,487
Speaker 2: on your phone and all that. But ultimately, as me

921
00:46:38,527 --> 00:46:41,207
Speaker 2: has already expressed, you're kind of powerless in this because

922
00:46:41,207 --> 00:46:43,927
Speaker 2: it is their world. Like talking about the implications of

923
00:46:44,287 --> 00:46:48,367
Speaker 2: banning Snapchat is enormous. That is, my daughter probably cannot

924
00:46:48,407 --> 00:46:51,807
Speaker 2: imagine her life or her social life without Snapchat, which

925
00:46:51,847 --> 00:46:54,727
Speaker 2: is scary in itself. Right, So the first thing everyone

926
00:46:54,727 --> 00:46:56,887
Speaker 2: says is it can't be done. How would you do that? Oh,

927
00:46:56,927 --> 00:46:59,327
Speaker 2: they'll find a way around it. Yes, they will find

928
00:46:59,367 --> 00:47:01,487
Speaker 2: a way around it. Lots of kids, some kids will,

929
00:47:01,687 --> 00:47:05,127
Speaker 2: but kids find their way around buying booze before they're eighteen.

930
00:47:05,207 --> 00:47:07,127
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean we all go we should just make

931
00:47:07,287 --> 00:47:09,967
Speaker 2: alcohol legal from when you're ten. Yeah, I think it

932
00:47:10,047 --> 00:47:13,087
Speaker 2: is defeatist. It's going to be really interesting. I think

933
00:47:13,087 --> 00:47:14,927
Speaker 2: with these kind of debates you just have to strap

934
00:47:14,967 --> 00:47:16,207
Speaker 2: in and go. A lot of people are going to

935
00:47:16,247 --> 00:47:18,327
Speaker 2: say a lot of stuff, but there is no question

936
00:47:19,087 --> 00:47:21,647
Speaker 2: that this is one of the biggest issues that's facing kids.

937
00:47:21,727 --> 00:47:25,767
Speaker 3: And community can be found in places outside of social media,

938
00:47:25,847 --> 00:47:28,727
Speaker 3: and news and current affairs can and should be found

939
00:47:29,167 --> 00:47:31,367
Speaker 3: in places outside of social media. What I do think

940
00:47:31,487 --> 00:47:34,367
Speaker 3: is a little bit funny is like you hear as

941
00:47:34,367 --> 00:47:37,367
Speaker 3: you say, Maya, the closer they are to teenagers, it's like,

942
00:47:37,887 --> 00:47:41,567
Speaker 3: I need the Internet for my community, and it's like, mate,

943
00:47:41,607 --> 00:47:45,287
Speaker 3: you're not sitting there making friends on the Internet. You're

944
00:47:45,327 --> 00:47:46,567
Speaker 3: looking at pornography.

945
00:47:48,127 --> 00:47:51,967
Speaker 2: Ironic thing about them, Yeah, they are definitely Yeah, I

946
00:47:51,967 --> 00:47:53,847
Speaker 2: think they definitely are. And I but the thing is

947
00:47:53,847 --> 00:47:55,527
Speaker 2: that I think there will be still be ways to

948
00:47:55,567 --> 00:47:57,967
Speaker 2: do that. The thing that's slightly ironic about the Green's position,

949
00:47:58,007 --> 00:48:00,367
Speaker 2: which I do have sympathy for, I understand that point,

950
00:48:01,207 --> 00:48:05,407
Speaker 2: is that they're defending the business models of these massive

951
00:48:05,727 --> 00:48:08,847
Speaker 2: tech platforms that are just all about getting rich. You

952
00:48:08,887 --> 00:48:12,327
Speaker 2: know what you just explained, Jesse about the awfulness being

953
00:48:12,367 --> 00:48:14,807
Speaker 2: served in an algorithm to a young girl with mental

954
00:48:14,847 --> 00:48:19,167
Speaker 2: health issues. Generally speaking, the bosses of the tech platforms

955
00:48:19,167 --> 00:48:21,527
Speaker 2: will literally go, that's got nothing to do with us

956
00:48:21,607 --> 00:48:26,007
Speaker 2: while cashing checks. So it seems very ironic that the

957
00:48:26,047 --> 00:48:29,887
Speaker 2: Greens would be defended in a way that really usually

958
00:48:29,927 --> 00:48:33,047
Speaker 2: they would kind of think, there's got to be another way.

959
00:48:33,207 --> 00:48:35,247
Speaker 3: There was a piece of legislation I think passed in

960
00:48:35,287 --> 00:48:39,367
Speaker 3: the nineties or something that basically protects all tech giants

961
00:48:39,367 --> 00:48:42,127
Speaker 3: from anything that is put on their platforms. Like legally

962
00:48:42,207 --> 00:48:45,207
Speaker 3: they can just go, oh, well, we didn't mean them

963
00:48:45,207 --> 00:48:47,487
Speaker 3: to see that or whatever. This will hold them more

964
00:48:47,527 --> 00:48:51,727
Speaker 3: to account, and maybe it means that the market corrects

965
00:48:51,727 --> 00:48:54,167
Speaker 3: itself and we have better platforms for young people. It

966
00:48:54,167 --> 00:48:56,847
Speaker 3: doesn't mean there are no platforms, but maybe it's not

967
00:48:56,887 --> 00:48:59,247
Speaker 3: the wild West. And you know, this is a bit

968
00:48:59,287 --> 00:49:01,847
Speaker 3: of a kickup the bum. If this segment has brought

969
00:49:01,927 --> 00:49:04,607
Speaker 3: up anything for you or has made you think about

970
00:49:04,607 --> 00:49:07,407
Speaker 3: a young person in your life, then there are resources

971
00:49:07,407 --> 00:49:10,047
Speaker 3: available in the show notes to life Line and beyond

972
00:49:10,047 --> 00:49:12,287
Speaker 3: Blue out Louders.

973
00:49:12,367 --> 00:49:14,567
Speaker 2: That's all we've got time for on today's show. Thank

974
00:49:14,647 --> 00:49:16,607
Speaker 2: you as always for being with us, and thank you

975
00:49:16,647 --> 00:49:19,287
Speaker 2: to our brilliant team on a crazy debate day helping

976
00:49:19,327 --> 00:49:22,207
Speaker 2: us put all that together. We are going to play

977
00:49:22,247 --> 00:49:25,327
Speaker 2: you now a little bit of a episode that we

978
00:49:25,447 --> 00:49:28,687
Speaker 2: made just the subscribers this week with Emily Vernon, and

979
00:49:28,767 --> 00:49:33,087
Speaker 2: it's about wedding etiquette, which is complex and always gets

980
00:49:33,087 --> 00:49:37,087
Speaker 2: people excited and specifically about what bridesmaids should and shouldn't

981
00:49:37,127 --> 00:49:39,887
Speaker 2: be expected to do and pay for. Here's a little

982
00:49:39,887 --> 00:49:40,287
Speaker 2: bit of it.

983
00:49:40,807 --> 00:49:44,087
Speaker 3: I was invited to a wedding and they said absolutely

984
00:49:44,167 --> 00:49:45,287
Speaker 3: no gifts. That was on there.

985
00:49:46,407 --> 00:49:47,287
Speaker 2: Do you still bring a gift?

986
00:49:47,487 --> 00:49:48,767
Speaker 1: No? Not bring a gift?

987
00:49:48,847 --> 00:49:50,567
Speaker 2: Right we honor people's wishes.

988
00:49:50,847 --> 00:49:53,127
Speaker 3: They said absolutely no gift. Do you bring a card?

989
00:49:53,487 --> 00:49:53,567
Speaker 5: Like?

990
00:49:53,607 --> 00:49:54,287
Speaker 1: Do you bring card?

991
00:49:54,407 --> 00:49:57,607
Speaker 2: Is good card? I'd bring like an emergency card with

992
00:49:57,687 --> 00:49:59,687
Speaker 2: some money in it and then see what everyone else

993
00:49:59,767 --> 00:50:00,127
Speaker 2: is doing.

994
00:50:00,207 --> 00:50:00,887
Speaker 1: This is a thing.

995
00:50:01,287 --> 00:50:04,247
Speaker 2: No, if they say no gifts, it means no gifts,

996
00:50:04,287 --> 00:50:06,767
Speaker 2: just have trust issues. I don't call them on that.

997
00:50:06,807 --> 00:50:09,807
Speaker 2: Shites because also I feel like once I give a gift,

998
00:50:09,807 --> 00:50:11,727
Speaker 2: I've done my job. Like I've done it. I just

999
00:50:11,767 --> 00:50:12,487
Speaker 2: want to have a good time.

1000
00:50:12,527 --> 00:50:13,247
Speaker 1: I just want to drink.

1001
00:50:13,807 --> 00:50:14,247
Speaker 2: Know what it is.

1002
00:50:14,287 --> 00:50:16,687
Speaker 3: You don't feel even you feel like you've got one up.

1003
00:50:16,887 --> 00:50:18,927
Speaker 3: They're walking around the world thinking they've got one up

1004
00:50:18,927 --> 00:50:20,607
Speaker 3: on me because they in the event, and I didn't

1005
00:50:20,607 --> 00:50:22,567
Speaker 3: give you a gift, so you're like no.

1006
00:50:22,807 --> 00:50:25,127
Speaker 2: So here's the thing that is to the rest of

1007
00:50:25,167 --> 00:50:25,687
Speaker 2: the episode.

1008
00:50:25,887 --> 00:50:27,847
Speaker 3: In the show notes, Bye.

1009
00:50:28,447 --> 00:50:31,327
Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you

1010
00:50:31,487 --> 00:50:34,367
Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing

1011
00:50:34,367 --> 00:50:36,807
Speaker 2: to Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it.

1012
00:50:37,007 --> 00:50:38,847
Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode description.