WEBVTT - The Long Game

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a Mother mea podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

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<v Speaker 1>the traditional owners of the land and waters. This podcast

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<v Speaker 1>is recorded on There are many great loves women can

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<v Speaker 1>find in their lives. Best friends, sisters, the one, the

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<v Speaker 1>one who got away, and of course the gay best friend.

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<v Speaker 2>I was obsessed with him in every way. I was

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<v Speaker 2>getting everything I ever wanted from a relationship, even financially.

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<v Speaker 2>He was paying for our rent and all of our

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<v Speaker 2>bills and everything. Anything I wanted I could ask him

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<v Speaker 2>and he would help me. It was honestly the perfect relationship,

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<v Speaker 2>except we weren't having sex.

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<v Speaker 1>It really is a love like no other. And because

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<v Speaker 1>it's a friendship, deep and fulfilling, but tonic, it doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>have the same pressures as a romantic relationship. Nowhing can

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<v Speaker 1>ever come between you or change what you have.

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<v Speaker 2>One day, when he was at work, I received an

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<v Speaker 2>email and it came from a lawyer. Once I received

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<v Speaker 2>the contract, I realized in that moment that my life

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<v Speaker 2>was never going to be the same again.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Georgia Love and this is everyone has an ex

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<v Speaker 1>Come with me as we dive into a collection of

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<v Speaker 1>unconventional stories about relationships past through the eyes and the

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<v Speaker 1>hearts of the very people who live them. Meet Lauren

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<v Speaker 1>at eighteen. Like many a Kiwi before her, Lauren moved

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<v Speaker 1>from the land of the Big White Cloud to the

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<v Speaker 1>land down Under and there she found a whole new

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<v Speaker 1>vibe tribe. To kick off her adult life.

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<v Speaker 2>Moved to Sydney from Dunedin, New Zealand, fresh out of

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<v Speaker 2>high school. I'd moved in with my sister who had

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<v Speaker 2>been living in Sydney for a few years. And my

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<v Speaker 2>sister was really involved in the LGBTQ community in Sydney. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>she had a girlfriend and I moved in with them

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<v Speaker 2>and decided to you know, find a little admund job.

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<v Speaker 2>And my sister was really my social life back then.

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<v Speaker 2>I was really involved with my sister's friends. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>she had a lot of gay friends, a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>lesbian friends, and yeah, we had a great, big group

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<v Speaker 2>of friends and we had a lot of parties at

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<v Speaker 2>our house. Yeah, and that's how I met Jason.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so the love interest in this story is called Jason.

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<v Speaker 2>He was really muscular. He was a bit older than

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<v Speaker 2>our friendship group as well. He was quite chiseled and

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<v Speaker 2>had facial hair like he was older than me. I

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<v Speaker 2>was eighteen and he was thirty one, and he kind

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<v Speaker 2>of stood out to me, and he was good looking,

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<v Speaker 2>like he was a really handsome guy. He was quite

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<v Speaker 2>affectionate with me straight away, which I enjoyed, and for

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<v Speaker 2>him to give me attention in a way that I

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<v Speaker 2>hadn't really had before I was only eighteen. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>he was interested in me in like wanting to get

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<v Speaker 2>to know me, and he wanted to buy me a drink,

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<v Speaker 2>he wanted to dance with me, and yeah, I'd never

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<v Speaker 2>really experienced that before. It was all very new, and

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<v Speaker 2>I liked the attention to be honest, and he was

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<v Speaker 2>more masculine than my friends were, So I was drawn

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<v Speaker 2>to him for that reason, especially because I'm straight and

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<v Speaker 2>I thought he was a straight man like in our

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<v Speaker 2>friendship group. But when I got to talking to him,

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<v Speaker 2>I found out that he actually was gay.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, right, maybe I jumped the gun there.

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<v Speaker 2>As he were, he just became someone in our friendship group.

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<v Speaker 2>Like in our community, we had people of all sorts,

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<v Speaker 2>of different backgrounds, different ages, so it wasn't unusual for

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<v Speaker 2>us to hang out with like an older gay person

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<v Speaker 2>because you know, like in Sydney, the community is really

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<v Speaker 2>tight and it's quite small actually, so everyone kind of

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<v Speaker 2>knows everyone and everyone does socialize together. Yeah, So that's

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<v Speaker 2>how we first met. And actually that first night, we

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<v Speaker 2>went out clubbing, like on Oxford Street, and we were

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<v Speaker 2>quite drawn to each other. And I don't necessarily know why,

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<v Speaker 2>but he took a liking to me, like he was

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<v Speaker 2>quite affectionate, quite off the bat, like in terms of,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, holding hands and putting his arm around me,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, just like dancing in the nightclub and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>He was just another one of our gay friends, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>at the party, and he had a boyfriend. So I

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't interested in him like that at all. We actually

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<v Speaker 2>clicked from that first night because the very next day,

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<v Speaker 2>like our friends went to the beach and we all

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<v Speaker 2>hung out together that same day and he was there,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's where I had the opportunity to kind of

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<v Speaker 2>talk to him and get to know him a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit more on a friendship basis.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I knew I was sensing some chemistry here. Lauren

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<v Speaker 1>might have just met the other great male love in

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<v Speaker 1>a woman's life, the gay best friend.

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<v Speaker 2>We had been close friends socially, hanging out in the

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<v Speaker 2>same group partying together, going clubbing and dancing and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>After six months, he had broken up with his boyfriend

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<v Speaker 2>and he needed to move out, and my sister was

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<v Speaker 2>moving out with her girlfriend, and so I said to him, look, Jason,

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<v Speaker 2>I have a room available. Do you want to move

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<v Speaker 2>in with me? You know I trust you, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>looking for someone who can afford to pay the rent

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<v Speaker 2>and the bills, etc. So he took that opportunity and

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<v Speaker 2>he moved in straight away. Pretty much, I just thought

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<v Speaker 2>I'd be living with my friend and it was just

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<v Speaker 2>going to be the same as living with any other

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<v Speaker 2>friend really. But when he moved in, we just became

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<v Speaker 2>best of friends, like almost overnight. And it was because,

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<v Speaker 2>like I said before, he showed so much interest in

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<v Speaker 2>my life. He wanted to go and do the things

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<v Speaker 2>that I enjoyed. He wanted to go for runs on

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<v Speaker 2>the beach and things like that, all the things that

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<v Speaker 2>I really liked to do. We grew to be best

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<v Speaker 2>friends really really quickly. Like we did everything together. We

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<v Speaker 2>went out for dinners together, and people did think that

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<v Speaker 2>we were a couple because we were always together. He

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<v Speaker 2>was really affectionate with me when we'd go out in public.

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<v Speaker 2>We held hands and you know, he would put his

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<v Speaker 2>arms around me and I loved that, but he was

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<v Speaker 2>still seeing other men. I was seeing dating guys at

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<v Speaker 2>the time, and we would sometimes hang out together in

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<v Speaker 2>groups when we were dating other people. We would go

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<v Speaker 2>on double dates and it was really fun. But everyone

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<v Speaker 2>knew that with me came Jason, my gay best friend.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone knew that. Everyone who I dated knew that I

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<v Speaker 2>was going to be with my gay best friend no

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<v Speaker 2>matter what. And you know, my relationships didn't last, and

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes it was because of that. They thought they were

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<v Speaker 2>third wheeling with Jason. Because Jason was so involved in

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<v Speaker 2>my life and every aspect of my life. Most of

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<v Speaker 2>the time, the guys that I was dating felt uncomfortable

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<v Speaker 2>around him, especially because he was so affectionate, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he would tell me that he loved me in front

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<v Speaker 2>of like guys. Yeah, people just they just were uncomfortable

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<v Speaker 2>with that. Jason was very similar. He had short flings

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<v Speaker 2>with guys, like he would meet guys online or meet

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<v Speaker 2>guys out clubbing, and it would be a couple of weeks,

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<v Speaker 2>and sometimes they would feel the same way about me.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, they would be like, why is Lauren always here?

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<v Speaker 2>Why can't we go out just us, like without Lauren?

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<v Speaker 2>But Jason would want me to be there. He would

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<v Speaker 2>always invite me, and sometimes we would have plans and

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<v Speaker 2>then he would invite his boyfriend at the time to

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<v Speaker 2>be like, do you want to do this with Lauren?

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<v Speaker 2>And I yeah, And so nothing ever really stuck with

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<v Speaker 2>either of us, and we bonded over that. I think, like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, when a relationship would break down, we would

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<v Speaker 2>comfort each other, we would talk about it, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we would be like scrolling on Tinder together, like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>trying to set each other up with other people. That

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<v Speaker 2>was a really normal part of our friendship. And I

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<v Speaker 2>almost felt like if I was seeing someone and Jason

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<v Speaker 2>didn't accept them, I wouldn't even give them the time

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<v Speaker 2>of day, Like his opinion meant everything to me. He

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<v Speaker 2>felt the same way as well. Honestly, it didn't bother

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<v Speaker 2>me because I felt I had everything that I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>from Jason. Although it wasn't sexual, we did have a

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<v Speaker 2>deep love for each other and the friendship was fulfilling.

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<v Speaker 2>The friendship intensified pretty quickly. Jason started working in the

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<v Speaker 2>minds over in wa and he would do swings that

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<v Speaker 2>would last for six sometimes eight weeks, so I would

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<v Speaker 2>be instidity by myself in our apartment, but we would

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<v Speaker 2>be texting and like calling each other, skyping each other,

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<v Speaker 2>video skyping each other, like twenty for seven while I

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<v Speaker 2>was at work, you know, at night he would call

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<v Speaker 2>me in the middle of the night when he started

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<v Speaker 2>a shift just to say like, hey, I'm studying my shift.

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<v Speaker 2>Hope you have a good day. But the things that

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<v Speaker 2>we would talk about while he was away, it started

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<v Speaker 2>to get really deep and personal, Like he started to

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<v Speaker 2>talk to me about his childhood and growing up in

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<v Speaker 2>a religious family and how he could never come out

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<v Speaker 2>to his family. That was a really big thing for him.

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<v Speaker 2>And yeah, it was important to me to help him

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<v Speaker 2>through that because I really cared about him. His sexuality

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<v Speaker 2>was a secret to his family. He wasn't from Sydney,

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<v Speaker 2>and yeah, his family didn't come to visit. He was

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<v Speaker 2>very active in the LGBTQ plus community and obviously dating

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<v Speaker 2>man in Sydney. He would go to Mardi Gras and

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<v Speaker 2>he would get dressed up and all that kind of stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>which was like really normal to us. And it wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>until he was working in the Minds and I guess

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<v Speaker 2>he started spending more time alone and away from us

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<v Speaker 2>and the comfort of his friends and the community that

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<v Speaker 2>he knew and loved. That he started to open up

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<v Speaker 2>a bit more about his family, is upbringing, his childhood,

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<v Speaker 2>about you know, not being out to his family, and

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<v Speaker 2>growing up in a religious household. When we would have

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<v Speaker 2>these late night calls and even just through messaging, he

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<v Speaker 2>would tell me a lot about his experiences growing up

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<v Speaker 2>in a church and growing up in a private Catholic school,

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<v Speaker 2>and just how much shame he felt about his sexuality

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<v Speaker 2>and he felt that his family would completely disown him

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<v Speaker 2>if they found out. And that really took an effect

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<v Speaker 2>on him as he was telling me, because he told

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<v Speaker 2>me he'd never spoken to anybody else about this, and

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<v Speaker 2>that it meant a lot to him that I was

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<v Speaker 2>able to help him through it, you know. And sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>he wouldn't come home for a month, sometimes six weeks,

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<v Speaker 2>and when he'd get home, he would just be so

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<v Speaker 2>relieved that he was able to, you know, live his

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<v Speaker 2>true self because working in the minds, he kind of

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<v Speaker 2>put on this front to be the kind of FIFO

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<v Speaker 2>worker persona that wasn't really him. Yeah, So when he

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<v Speaker 2>would come back home to Sydney. We would do all

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<v Speaker 2>the great things that we enjoyed. We would go out

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<v Speaker 2>and see all of our friends and have a good time.

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<v Speaker 2>That was that's what made him happy. And then when

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<v Speaker 2>he would go back, he would like cry to me

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<v Speaker 2>because he had to go back to this secret life

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<v Speaker 2>that he hated. It broke my heart because and especially myself,

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<v Speaker 2>like having my sister, you know, if that was my sister,

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<v Speaker 2>and I knew that he was happy living that lifestyle,

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<v Speaker 2>so it did really break my heart knowing that his

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<v Speaker 2>family didn't really know the real him.

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<v Speaker 1>This brought Lauren and Jason even closer together. Despite spending

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<v Speaker 1>weeks apart on other sides of the country, their bond

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<v Speaker 1>became impenetrable.

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<v Speaker 2>We loved being together. We could literally just be our

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<v Speaker 2>most silliest self together and we never judged one another.

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<v Speaker 2>We always had the best of times when we were together.

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<v Speaker 2>He stayed working in the minds purely because of the

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<v Speaker 2>money and the lifestyle that he had. On his weeks off,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, he would work really hard for four weeks

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<v Speaker 2>and then he would come home for four weeks, or

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes we would go to Fiji for a week, or

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes while he was at work, we would be talking

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<v Speaker 2>about how much we wanted to go to Bali, and

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<v Speaker 2>so he would book a trip to Bali and I

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<v Speaker 2>would meet him there after his swing would finish. That's

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of person he was, like, he went above

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<v Speaker 2>and beyond for me. It was never an issue for him.

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<v Speaker 2>He wanted to do the things that I enjoyed, and

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<v Speaker 2>he enjoyed them as well. You know, that's just what

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<v Speaker 2>we really liked to do. So for about a year

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<v Speaker 2>of him working in the mines, if he wasn't coming home,

0:15:04.250 --> 0:15:08.770
<v Speaker 2>we were traveling together. He loved spoiling me as well,

0:15:08.850 --> 0:15:12.130
<v Speaker 2>where he would come home with gifts. We would come

0:15:12.170 --> 0:15:16.250
<v Speaker 2>home with like perfume, and he'd send flowers to the house.

0:15:16.450 --> 0:15:21.690
<v Speaker 2>Like he was everything I really needed. I was getting

0:15:21.730 --> 0:15:27.130
<v Speaker 2>everything I ever wanted from a relationship, even financially. He

0:15:27.290 --> 0:15:31.370
<v Speaker 2>was taking care of me financially. He was paying for

0:15:31.530 --> 0:15:35.810
<v Speaker 2>our rent and all of our bills and everything. Anything

0:15:35.850 --> 0:15:38.290
<v Speaker 2>I wanted I could ask him and he would help me.

0:15:39.170 --> 0:15:45.330
<v Speaker 2>It was honestly the perfect relationship, except we weren't having sex.

0:15:46.490 --> 0:15:51.970
<v Speaker 2>After about six months of his four weeks on four

0:15:52.010 --> 0:15:58.250
<v Speaker 2>weeks off swing, the conversations and our communication started to

0:15:58.330 --> 0:16:03.770
<v Speaker 2>get a bit more like talking about our life goals,

0:16:04.130 --> 0:16:06.810
<v Speaker 2>talking about where we want to be in the future.

0:16:07.890 --> 0:16:10.690
<v Speaker 2>Jason started to talk about wanting to have a family

0:16:11.730 --> 0:16:14.410
<v Speaker 2>and wanting to have kids. You know, he was much

0:16:14.450 --> 0:16:18.610
<v Speaker 2>older than me, and at twenty one twenty two, that

0:16:18.770 --> 0:16:22.610
<v Speaker 2>just never crossed my mind to thinking about kids. But

0:16:23.130 --> 0:16:25.410
<v Speaker 2>you know, once he dropped the topic on me, it

0:16:25.570 --> 0:16:30.530
<v Speaker 2>was all we talked about. He felt a really strong

0:16:30.770 --> 0:16:34.810
<v Speaker 2>pull to having a kid or a couple of kids,

0:16:35.850 --> 0:16:41.610
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, I was just entertaining the idea of maybe

0:16:41.690 --> 0:16:44.970
<v Speaker 2>having a baby with my gay best friend. I mean,

0:16:45.130 --> 0:16:49.810
<v Speaker 2>we did everything else together. And yeah, he would kind

0:16:49.810 --> 0:16:52.210
<v Speaker 2>of tell me like, well, if you don't meet anyone

0:16:53.530 --> 0:16:56.170
<v Speaker 2>before you turn thirty, will you have a baby with me?

0:16:57.330 --> 0:17:01.250
<v Speaker 2>And I thought about him. I did really think, yeah,

0:17:02.050 --> 0:17:04.530
<v Speaker 2>why not. I mean I don't have anything else going

0:17:04.570 --> 0:17:07.450
<v Speaker 2>on or anybody else to have a baby with. And

0:17:07.650 --> 0:17:10.490
<v Speaker 2>I could see how great of a provider he was,

0:17:10.770 --> 0:17:13.250
<v Speaker 2>and I did see him as being a really good

0:17:13.370 --> 0:17:19.370
<v Speaker 2>father as well. So yeah, it was something that became

0:17:20.530 --> 0:17:22.850
<v Speaker 2>an important part of our friendship.

0:17:23.330 --> 0:17:27.370
<v Speaker 1>They were as close as two friends could be, possibly closer, really,

0:17:27.770 --> 0:17:30.290
<v Speaker 1>But it was just a friendship, wasn't it.

0:17:30.730 --> 0:17:34.370
<v Speaker 2>On one of his swing breaks. We met in Melbourne

0:17:35.290 --> 0:17:38.730
<v Speaker 2>and his mom and dad were that with his two

0:17:38.770 --> 0:17:42.730
<v Speaker 2>little brothers, and his brothers were still in high school.

0:17:43.490 --> 0:17:47.450
<v Speaker 2>They had come a lot a bit later in his parents' life,

0:17:47.890 --> 0:17:51.450
<v Speaker 2>and he presented me to his parents as his girlfriend.

0:17:52.290 --> 0:17:58.050
<v Speaker 2>I knew his struggles with his family, and so I

0:17:58.170 --> 0:18:02.770
<v Speaker 2>understood and I went along with it, you know, and

0:18:02.810 --> 0:18:05.130
<v Speaker 2>they treated me like I was his girlfriend. They were

0:18:05.170 --> 0:18:08.570
<v Speaker 2>getting to know me like I was his girlfriend. It

0:18:08.690 --> 0:18:17.650
<v Speaker 2>was almost because we had to play this relationship in

0:18:17.690 --> 0:18:22.970
<v Speaker 2>front of them. But during that time, I just fell

0:18:23.010 --> 0:18:24.890
<v Speaker 2>in love with him. I fell in love with the

0:18:24.930 --> 0:18:30.290
<v Speaker 2>idea of like being his girlfriend for real, not just

0:18:31.010 --> 0:18:34.650
<v Speaker 2>in front of his parents. And you know, even when

0:18:34.690 --> 0:18:38.250
<v Speaker 2>we weren't around his parents during that week, he still

0:18:38.330 --> 0:18:42.570
<v Speaker 2>treated me like I was his girlfriend. We'd go out

0:18:42.570 --> 0:18:45.930
<v Speaker 2>for dinners together and he was a gentleman. He would

0:18:46.930 --> 0:18:50.730
<v Speaker 2>open the doors and pull the chair out and actually

0:18:51.490 --> 0:18:54.250
<v Speaker 2>pay attention to me, listen to me and what I

0:18:54.290 --> 0:18:59.610
<v Speaker 2>had to say. It wasn't like he was being my

0:18:59.730 --> 0:19:02.050
<v Speaker 2>boyfriend in front of his mum and dad. And then

0:19:02.090 --> 0:19:04.650
<v Speaker 2>as soon as they went around, he'd go, oh, anyway,

0:19:04.810 --> 0:19:08.130
<v Speaker 2>like let's go back to you know, talking about boys

0:19:08.170 --> 0:19:10.530
<v Speaker 2>and things like that. It wasn't like that at all.

0:19:11.170 --> 0:19:14.290
<v Speaker 2>In the back of my mind, I just thought, no,

0:19:14.290 --> 0:19:17.210
<v Speaker 2>no way, like it's impossible, you know, like he's a

0:19:17.250 --> 0:19:17.730
<v Speaker 2>gay man.

0:19:19.850 --> 0:19:23.090
<v Speaker 1>Lauren pushed the idea of being Jason's actual girlfriend to

0:19:23.210 --> 0:19:25.490
<v Speaker 1>the back of her mind. It was a silly thought,

0:19:25.530 --> 0:19:28.090
<v Speaker 1>her head messed up with love and feelings, but she

0:19:28.170 --> 0:19:31.330
<v Speaker 1>knew they were misplaced. They'd been best friends for four

0:19:31.410 --> 0:19:34.570
<v Speaker 1>years by this point, of course, she adored him. Anything

0:19:34.610 --> 0:19:37.370
<v Speaker 1>more than a close friendship was just a silly fantasy.

0:19:38.050 --> 0:19:44.850
<v Speaker 2>So one swing, he came home and he immediately wanted

0:19:44.850 --> 0:19:48.610
<v Speaker 2>to go out drinking. And this was not something we

0:19:48.650 --> 0:19:53.650
<v Speaker 2>did very often. We never went on random night outs drinking,

0:19:54.490 --> 0:19:58.050
<v Speaker 2>but this particular time he wanted to. So we just

0:19:58.730 --> 0:20:00.570
<v Speaker 2>went out for dinner and we were having some drinks

0:20:00.570 --> 0:20:03.090
<v Speaker 2>and stuff, and then we ended up going to the

0:20:03.090 --> 0:20:08.410
<v Speaker 2>city after that and we got really drunk. He was

0:20:08.450 --> 0:20:10.850
<v Speaker 2>just buying me drink after drink after drink, and that

0:20:10.970 --> 0:20:14.050
<v Speaker 2>was kind of normal, and we must have been out

0:20:14.090 --> 0:20:19.570
<v Speaker 2>all night dancing, and when we got home we ended

0:20:19.650 --> 0:20:24.610
<v Speaker 2>up kissing. I pushed him away because I thought, no, like,

0:20:24.730 --> 0:20:26.970
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna ruin things. You know, this is going to

0:20:27.050 --> 0:20:30.250
<v Speaker 2>ruin our friendship, and I thought maybe he was just

0:20:30.330 --> 0:20:32.850
<v Speaker 2>like being silly in the moment because we had had

0:20:32.850 --> 0:20:36.210
<v Speaker 2>a few drinks. But he actually said to me like, nah,

0:20:36.210 --> 0:20:38.690
<v Speaker 2>I actually want this, and I feel like you do too,

0:20:39.970 --> 0:20:45.290
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, so it happened. We ended up sleeping together

0:20:45.370 --> 0:20:49.810
<v Speaker 2>that night. In the morning, we both woke up in

0:20:49.850 --> 0:20:55.410
<v Speaker 2>my bed completely naked, and I just freaked out. I

0:20:55.450 --> 0:20:58.330
<v Speaker 2>got dressed so fast and I left the building and

0:20:58.370 --> 0:21:02.050
<v Speaker 2>I called my sister freaking out because I just thought,

0:21:02.090 --> 0:21:04.290
<v Speaker 2>what have we done? Like We've ruined everything. It's never

0:21:04.330 --> 0:21:07.090
<v Speaker 2>going to be the same again. There was a part

0:21:07.130 --> 0:21:10.210
<v Speaker 2>of me that was like, oh my god, I can't

0:21:10.210 --> 0:21:14.330
<v Speaker 2>believe it, Like it's happening, Like maybe he is really

0:21:14.370 --> 0:21:17.890
<v Speaker 2>into me, maybe we are going to have a baby together.

0:21:18.890 --> 0:21:23.010
<v Speaker 2>And then there was another part of me that was

0:21:23.090 --> 0:21:26.410
<v Speaker 2>completely in denial because he was a gay man and

0:21:26.490 --> 0:21:28.570
<v Speaker 2>he like, we had just had a few drinks, so

0:21:29.250 --> 0:21:31.410
<v Speaker 2>I felt like, oh, nah, he's going to have regrets

0:21:31.410 --> 0:21:34.090
<v Speaker 2>in the morning. He's gonna want to move out and

0:21:35.810 --> 0:21:38.330
<v Speaker 2>not want to ever speak to me again. I don't know. Yeah,

0:21:38.370 --> 0:21:41.170
<v Speaker 2>my head was like spinning at that point.

0:21:41.930 --> 0:21:43.850
<v Speaker 1>If Lauren had thought her head was a mess about

0:21:43.850 --> 0:21:48.410
<v Speaker 1>her feelings for Jason before this untapped a whole new level.

0:21:48.730 --> 0:21:52.210
<v Speaker 2>When he said that I want this. When he said

0:21:52.330 --> 0:21:58.490
<v Speaker 2>he wanted to kiss me, I think I just felt like, oh,

0:21:58.530 --> 0:22:00.890
<v Speaker 2>this is the best moment of my life, Like, this

0:22:00.970 --> 0:22:04.650
<v Speaker 2>is what I've been waiting for. I always knew I

0:22:04.730 --> 0:22:08.330
<v Speaker 2>loved my gay best friend, but the fact that he

0:22:09.050 --> 0:22:15.410
<v Speaker 2>actually wanted to kiss me just felt unreal. You know.

0:22:15.610 --> 0:22:19.370
<v Speaker 2>I think the girls that have a gay best friend,

0:22:19.410 --> 0:22:22.210
<v Speaker 2>it's like the dream, you know, because it's like you

0:22:22.250 --> 0:22:27.170
<v Speaker 2>know your best friend and you have everything with that person,

0:22:27.530 --> 0:22:31.010
<v Speaker 2>and for it to be like romantic, it's just it

0:22:31.130 --> 0:22:35.930
<v Speaker 2>never happens. So, I mean, we did live together, so

0:22:36.010 --> 0:22:38.930
<v Speaker 2>I had to go back to the apartment pretty quickly.

0:22:40.090 --> 0:22:43.250
<v Speaker 2>He slept all day that day. He was super hungover,

0:22:44.370 --> 0:22:47.410
<v Speaker 2>I remember because he woke up and it was like

0:22:47.450 --> 0:22:51.410
<v Speaker 2>the next night and I said to him, like, do

0:22:51.450 --> 0:22:53.610
<v Speaker 2>you want to have a chat? Like do you want

0:22:53.650 --> 0:22:56.330
<v Speaker 2>to talk about what happened? And he just had the

0:22:56.370 --> 0:22:59.330
<v Speaker 2>biggest smile on his face and he was like, no,

0:22:59.850 --> 0:23:02.610
<v Speaker 2>do you And I just looked at him and I said, no,

0:23:05.330 --> 0:23:08.410
<v Speaker 2>We'll just leave it for the night, and yeah, and

0:23:08.490 --> 0:23:11.730
<v Speaker 2>we did. We just like went back to our normal life,

0:23:11.890 --> 0:23:14.610
<v Speaker 2>but because he had just gotten back from work, we

0:23:14.690 --> 0:23:19.010
<v Speaker 2>had two weeks together with no distractions, no plans or anything,

0:23:19.170 --> 0:23:22.610
<v Speaker 2>so we did take that time to talk about everything.

0:23:23.810 --> 0:23:26.650
<v Speaker 2>I think we were just talking about the first night

0:23:27.370 --> 0:23:30.410
<v Speaker 2>and I asked him, like, you know, how did it

0:23:30.450 --> 0:23:33.810
<v Speaker 2>make you feel because you've never been with a woman before,

0:23:35.130 --> 0:23:39.130
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, in that time, he expressed to me that

0:23:39.330 --> 0:23:44.490
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't about my gender, wasn't about sexuality. It was

0:23:44.530 --> 0:23:48.810
<v Speaker 2>more about our connection and how much we loved each other.

0:23:49.930 --> 0:23:55.530
<v Speaker 2>And he told me that he was comfortable, and we

0:23:55.650 --> 0:24:00.130
<v Speaker 2>slept together a couple more times. We hadn't really talked

0:24:00.170 --> 0:24:05.330
<v Speaker 2>about what we were We just wanted to let it

0:24:05.370 --> 0:24:13.170
<v Speaker 2>happen organically. Yes, so it progressed pretty quickly. So the

0:24:13.250 --> 0:24:16.850
<v Speaker 2>more we talked about having sex, the more sex we had.

0:24:18.890 --> 0:24:24.490
<v Speaker 2>And then he went back to work and everything remained

0:24:24.530 --> 0:24:28.650
<v Speaker 2>the same apart from the fact that we had slept together,

0:24:29.730 --> 0:24:36.290
<v Speaker 2>and our conversations started to turn more into sexting, video chat,

0:24:37.330 --> 0:24:42.770
<v Speaker 2>sending a few pics air in there, and that was

0:24:42.810 --> 0:24:46.410
<v Speaker 2>basically it. We stopped talking about childhood, Trauman, we started

0:24:46.410 --> 0:24:52.170
<v Speaker 2>talking about having sex pretty much, and that was basically

0:24:52.210 --> 0:24:55.930
<v Speaker 2>our life for about three to four months. He would

0:24:55.930 --> 0:25:00.130
<v Speaker 2>go to work, he would come home, we would hook

0:25:00.210 --> 0:25:03.130
<v Speaker 2>up and do the things that we enjoyed. We lived

0:25:03.290 --> 0:25:06.850
<v Speaker 2>like we were together, but we never had a conversation

0:25:07.450 --> 0:25:13.330
<v Speaker 2>about it during that time until I asked him, am

0:25:13.370 --> 0:25:17.970
<v Speaker 2>I a girlfriend? Because we seem to be doing everything

0:25:18.010 --> 0:25:22.490
<v Speaker 2>that boyfriends and girlfriends do. And he just looked at

0:25:22.490 --> 0:25:26.570
<v Speaker 2>me and he was like, honestly, I love you so much,

0:25:27.090 --> 0:25:30.130
<v Speaker 2>and I don't want to be with anybody else, and

0:25:30.210 --> 0:25:33.250
<v Speaker 2>I don't want you to be with anybody else, So

0:25:33.570 --> 0:25:37.090
<v Speaker 2>if you're cool with that, then that's us. We're together.

0:25:40.050 --> 0:25:44.490
<v Speaker 2>I was elated because never in a million years did

0:25:44.490 --> 0:25:48.610
<v Speaker 2>I think that our friendship would turn into a full

0:25:48.650 --> 0:25:54.130
<v Speaker 2>blown relationship where we just loved each other that much.

0:25:55.250 --> 0:26:01.250
<v Speaker 2>And it was amazing, Like we were really happy, and

0:26:01.890 --> 0:26:06.610
<v Speaker 2>all of our friends knew, our families knew, yeah, and

0:26:06.610 --> 0:26:11.530
<v Speaker 2>everyone was quite cool about it. There were a few people,

0:26:12.890 --> 0:26:17.650
<v Speaker 2>my mom and my sister included, who were concerned that

0:26:18.810 --> 0:26:23.050
<v Speaker 2>I was not in a good spot. My sister and

0:26:23.530 --> 0:26:30.050
<v Speaker 2>my mom were quite concerned about our relationship because Jason

0:26:31.170 --> 0:26:34.130
<v Speaker 2>he wanted all of my time and attention, and that

0:26:34.250 --> 0:26:39.130
<v Speaker 2>meant taking it away from others, or you know, he

0:26:39.210 --> 0:26:42.770
<v Speaker 2>would want to one up them. If my family was

0:26:42.810 --> 0:26:47.690
<v Speaker 2>going on holiday, he would want to take me to Thailand.

0:26:48.210 --> 0:26:51.490
<v Speaker 2>He would, you know, always want to present something better.

0:26:52.530 --> 0:26:56.730
<v Speaker 2>And because of the way I felt about him, I

0:26:56.730 --> 0:27:02.490
<v Speaker 2>would accept his invite over others. And yeah, that really

0:27:02.530 --> 0:27:06.810
<v Speaker 2>bothered my sister especially, and she was quite concerned about

0:27:07.290 --> 0:27:10.970
<v Speaker 2>our age gap, how naive I was, or how innocent

0:27:11.050 --> 0:27:15.330
<v Speaker 2>I was, and she felt that he was buying my love.

0:27:16.290 --> 0:27:18.090
<v Speaker 2>I would say, you know, you don't know him like

0:27:18.210 --> 0:27:21.690
<v Speaker 2>I do. You don't know you know what he's been through,

0:27:21.730 --> 0:27:25.770
<v Speaker 2>you don't know his background and his family. I'm all

0:27:25.810 --> 0:27:29.970
<v Speaker 2>he has. I would do anything for him, and he

0:27:30.010 --> 0:27:32.650
<v Speaker 2>would do the same thing for me. And I would

0:27:32.730 --> 0:27:36.410
<v Speaker 2>tell my sister if there's anything that you need, if

0:27:36.450 --> 0:27:40.010
<v Speaker 2>you needed something in the middle of the night, Jason

0:27:40.010 --> 0:27:44.290
<v Speaker 2>would be there for you because he loves me that much.

0:27:44.370 --> 0:27:49.690
<v Speaker 2>And my sister just allowed it because she wanted to

0:27:49.730 --> 0:27:53.370
<v Speaker 2>be at least a little bit of part of my

0:27:53.450 --> 0:27:57.970
<v Speaker 2>life rather than nothing at all. My Mom's not a crude.

0:27:58.010 --> 0:28:01.370
<v Speaker 2>My mom is very open about sex and always has been,

0:28:02.210 --> 0:28:06.250
<v Speaker 2>and she has a very colorful sex life, and you know,

0:28:06.330 --> 0:28:09.570
<v Speaker 2>she's very open. So when I said to her, like

0:28:09.730 --> 0:28:15.610
<v Speaker 2>I'm hooking up Jason, I hooken up, and she was like, oh, yeah, okay,

0:28:15.730 --> 0:28:18.250
<v Speaker 2>that's pretty cool. Yeah, like, if that's what you guys

0:28:18.290 --> 0:28:21.170
<v Speaker 2>are like, you know, if that's what makes you happy

0:28:21.370 --> 0:28:26.570
<v Speaker 2>and all that, that's cool, but make sure you're getting tested,

0:28:27.090 --> 0:28:32.450
<v Speaker 2>make sure we're using protection and things like that. And

0:28:33.410 --> 0:28:36.650
<v Speaker 2>I felt bad because I felt they were judging him

0:28:36.730 --> 0:28:41.490
<v Speaker 2>based on his sexuality or his sexual experience, and I

0:28:41.490 --> 0:28:44.610
<v Speaker 2>didn't think that that was very fear. I was super

0:28:44.650 --> 0:28:48.690
<v Speaker 2>open minded, Like I even said to him, if you

0:28:48.770 --> 0:28:52.890
<v Speaker 2>want to have relationships with men, then please tell me,

0:28:53.410 --> 0:28:59.450
<v Speaker 2>because that is something I cannot fulfill. And we talked

0:28:59.450 --> 0:29:01.570
<v Speaker 2>about that all the time, and he was like, nah,

0:29:01.650 --> 0:29:05.330
<v Speaker 2>like I really don't have that feeling. I feel like

0:29:05.370 --> 0:29:10.490
<v Speaker 2>you're my person and we're good, like just us two,

0:29:10.650 --> 0:29:13.610
<v Speaker 2>you know, which is like exactly what I wanted to hear.

0:29:14.810 --> 0:29:18.490
<v Speaker 1>But it wasn't all immediately easy and rosy. Lauren didn't

0:29:18.490 --> 0:29:21.210
<v Speaker 1>care what anyone else thought about her, but she was

0:29:21.250 --> 0:29:25.090
<v Speaker 1>worried about Jason. He'd always been openly gay, was very

0:29:25.090 --> 0:29:29.050
<v Speaker 1>active in the LGBTQI community, and there were concerns about

0:29:29.090 --> 0:29:31.410
<v Speaker 1>how people may react to this new development.

0:29:32.250 --> 0:29:36.210
<v Speaker 2>I knew people were going to be judgmental, and I

0:29:36.330 --> 0:29:40.650
<v Speaker 2>was really protective of him. I didn't want people to

0:29:41.090 --> 0:29:46.810
<v Speaker 2>treat him differently or you know, past judgment just because

0:29:47.370 --> 0:29:52.490
<v Speaker 2>he was now with a woman. And we did end

0:29:52.570 --> 0:29:58.090
<v Speaker 2>up like secluding ourselves ourselves from our friends because of that.

0:29:58.330 --> 0:30:02.450
<v Speaker 2>We were afraid that, you know, they'd be talking about

0:30:02.450 --> 0:30:05.930
<v Speaker 2>it behind our back, and we didn't want that for

0:30:05.970 --> 0:30:13.890
<v Speaker 2>each other. And yeah, we eventually moved to just being

0:30:13.930 --> 0:30:17.770
<v Speaker 2>with one another. We stopped seeing a lot of our

0:30:17.810 --> 0:30:23.210
<v Speaker 2>friends once the relationship progressed. There's no particular reason why.

0:30:23.330 --> 0:30:26.650
<v Speaker 2>It just kind of happened. People stopped reaching out to

0:30:26.730 --> 0:30:31.210
<v Speaker 2>us to hang out. But I think because we knew

0:30:31.290 --> 0:30:38.330
<v Speaker 2>so many people and our involvement in the gay community,

0:30:39.410 --> 0:30:42.370
<v Speaker 2>it kind of felt like like that wasn't us anymore.

0:30:42.450 --> 0:30:48.210
<v Speaker 2>Because he was like straight. He never came out as

0:30:48.250 --> 0:30:53.210
<v Speaker 2>anything else. He never used words to describe himself or

0:30:53.210 --> 0:30:57.090
<v Speaker 2>his sexuality. He just said like i'm me, I'm me,

0:30:57.290 --> 0:30:59.650
<v Speaker 2>and that We would say that to each other often,

0:30:59.770 --> 0:31:03.050
<v Speaker 2>like this is just us, and you know, there's not

0:31:03.090 --> 0:31:06.330
<v Speaker 2>really one word that can describe it. We were just

0:31:06.850 --> 0:31:13.410
<v Speaker 2>Lauren and Jason. That was it. The relationship was really easy.

0:31:14.170 --> 0:31:21.730
<v Speaker 2>It was very relaxing for me. I didn't really have

0:31:22.650 --> 0:31:27.490
<v Speaker 2>too much to worry about. Jason was a really good partner.

0:31:27.890 --> 0:31:37.370
<v Speaker 2>He was the most amazing listener, and he just understood

0:31:37.410 --> 0:31:41.290
<v Speaker 2>me so well. He offered so much more than what

0:31:41.410 --> 0:31:48.810
<v Speaker 2>our friendship really started with. And that was just like

0:31:48.930 --> 0:31:54.330
<v Speaker 2>his devotion, his love, his affection. Like the way he

0:31:54.410 --> 0:31:59.970
<v Speaker 2>spoke to me was like I was the only person

0:32:00.090 --> 0:32:03.690
<v Speaker 2>in the whole world. And that's how he always treated me.

0:32:04.490 --> 0:32:06.650
<v Speaker 2>Whether he was at work or he was at home,

0:32:07.210 --> 0:32:13.890
<v Speaker 2>it was always about me. I was so in love

0:32:13.970 --> 0:32:18.250
<v Speaker 2>with him and so obsessed with him and the way

0:32:18.290 --> 0:32:21.410
<v Speaker 2>that he provided for me, and like I never had

0:32:21.450 --> 0:32:26.210
<v Speaker 2>to worry about a single thing ever because he just

0:32:26.450 --> 0:32:29.690
<v Speaker 2>like had it all sorted. He had it all organized,

0:32:30.330 --> 0:32:34.650
<v Speaker 2>Like he kept a calendar on the wall and he

0:32:34.650 --> 0:32:40.090
<v Speaker 2>would book my dentist appointments for me and like give

0:32:40.170 --> 0:32:43.330
<v Speaker 2>me the money to pay for like whatever I needed.

0:32:43.450 --> 0:32:49.570
<v Speaker 2>It was just like a very stress free relationship, and

0:32:49.650 --> 0:32:53.850
<v Speaker 2>I think that's why I just enjoyed it and I

0:32:53.930 --> 0:32:57.730
<v Speaker 2>lapped it up to you know. I would be like, hey,

0:32:57.890 --> 0:33:04.330
<v Speaker 2>so I heard that, you know, Beyonce's coming to Sydney,

0:33:04.610 --> 0:33:08.530
<v Speaker 2>Like do you want to go? And he would be like, well,

0:33:09.490 --> 0:33:11.450
<v Speaker 2>I don't really like her, but we can go so

0:33:11.650 --> 0:33:13.730
<v Speaker 2>so he would buy me tickets like it. That's just

0:33:13.810 --> 0:33:15.770
<v Speaker 2>the kind of person he was. He wanted me to

0:33:15.770 --> 0:33:21.650
<v Speaker 2>be happy all the time. Our relationship maintained that like

0:33:21.730 --> 0:33:26.010
<v Speaker 2>sexual dynamic, and you know, ramped up the chemistry there

0:33:26.130 --> 0:33:30.130
<v Speaker 2>for a good I want to say, six months, and

0:33:30.170 --> 0:33:35.530
<v Speaker 2>then Jason started talking about having a baby again, having

0:33:35.530 --> 0:33:38.810
<v Speaker 2>a family, and it was like his biggest dream in

0:33:38.850 --> 0:33:41.850
<v Speaker 2>life was to be a dad, and that's all he

0:33:41.930 --> 0:33:46.410
<v Speaker 2>ever wanted. He had names for like his kids, and

0:33:47.490 --> 0:33:50.210
<v Speaker 2>you know, we shared that that stuff with each other.

0:33:50.250 --> 0:33:53.930
<v Speaker 2>It was pretty like normal for friends. And then you know,

0:33:54.010 --> 0:33:58.570
<v Speaker 2>boyfriend girlfriend kind of chat. And he started saying to me, like,

0:33:58.810 --> 0:34:01.130
<v Speaker 2>when do you want to have a kid? Is it

0:34:01.130 --> 0:34:04.090
<v Speaker 2>something that's on the cards for us soon? And that

0:34:04.170 --> 0:34:07.770
<v Speaker 2>felt like the next step as well. But at the

0:34:07.810 --> 0:34:12.290
<v Speaker 2>same time, I was twenty five turning twenty six, I

0:34:12.490 --> 0:34:16.970
<v Speaker 2>still didn't really have that big pool to be a mom.

0:34:17.290 --> 0:34:20.410
<v Speaker 2>I felt like I wanted to continue having fun. I

0:34:20.450 --> 0:34:25.730
<v Speaker 2>wanted to continue traveling and discovering this romantic side of

0:34:25.810 --> 0:34:29.570
<v Speaker 2>us and exploring that a little bit more rather than

0:34:29.610 --> 0:34:36.570
<v Speaker 2>getting a bit too serious. So I entertained his conversations

0:34:36.930 --> 0:34:40.490
<v Speaker 2>about having kids. And that was because I never wanted

0:34:40.530 --> 0:34:44.570
<v Speaker 2>to disappoint him. I always wanted to talk about the

0:34:44.610 --> 0:34:47.770
<v Speaker 2>things he wanted to talk about. I knew I wanted

0:34:47.810 --> 0:34:50.730
<v Speaker 2>to have kids one day, but my timeline wasn't matching

0:34:50.810 --> 0:34:53.810
<v Speaker 2>up with his. And I didn't want to tell him

0:34:53.810 --> 0:34:56.890
<v Speaker 2>that because I didn't want to put him off. I

0:34:56.930 --> 0:35:01.810
<v Speaker 2>didn't want him to have a reason to not like me.

0:35:02.730 --> 0:35:06.250
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to make him happy. But no matter what

0:35:06.290 --> 0:35:09.850
<v Speaker 2>I said, that was the topic of conversation every day

0:35:10.010 --> 0:35:15.610
<v Speaker 2>he was at work. Baby chat. Yeah. And then he

0:35:15.690 --> 0:35:20.850
<v Speaker 2>came home from work one day and he asked me,

0:35:21.490 --> 0:35:25.250
<v Speaker 2>when did I last get my period? I said to him, oh,

0:35:25.330 --> 0:35:27.810
<v Speaker 2>I think maybe like a week ago. And he was

0:35:27.850 --> 0:35:29.810
<v Speaker 2>like perfect, and he picked up his phone and he

0:35:29.850 --> 0:35:32.250
<v Speaker 2>put it in his phone and I was like, wait,

0:35:32.290 --> 0:35:35.770
<v Speaker 2>what are you doing And he's like, oh, nothing, I'm

0:35:35.850 --> 0:35:42.610
<v Speaker 2>just just curious. So that's when it kind of began.

0:35:43.530 --> 0:35:48.490
<v Speaker 2>The baby planning started. He ramped it up. He ramped

0:35:48.570 --> 0:35:51.050
<v Speaker 2>up the baby chat. He wanted to talk about my

0:35:51.130 --> 0:35:55.210
<v Speaker 2>mental cycle, he wanted to talk about my diet, he

0:35:55.250 --> 0:35:58.090
<v Speaker 2>wanted to talk about, like, you know, how many drinks

0:35:58.130 --> 0:36:01.810
<v Speaker 2>I'm having a week, And started asking all of this stuff,

0:36:01.890 --> 0:36:03.930
<v Speaker 2>and he was very open with it. He said, you know,

0:36:03.970 --> 0:36:07.290
<v Speaker 2>we need to prepare. You told me one year. I

0:36:07.410 --> 0:36:10.210
<v Speaker 2>may have said that in a conversation, but in my heart,

0:36:10.290 --> 0:36:12.930
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't feeling like I could have a baby in

0:36:12.970 --> 0:36:17.850
<v Speaker 2>a year. I knew that deep down. So for about

0:36:17.890 --> 0:36:22.170
<v Speaker 2>four weeks when he was home, it was preparing us

0:36:22.570 --> 0:36:26.450
<v Speaker 2>to get pregnant. You know, I would talk about how

0:36:26.490 --> 0:36:28.890
<v Speaker 2>he's much older than me and he doesn't want to

0:36:28.930 --> 0:36:33.210
<v Speaker 2>be an old dad, and it would be a great

0:36:33.250 --> 0:36:38.530
<v Speaker 2>situation for us because I'm young, I'm fertile, I've got

0:36:38.570 --> 0:36:41.610
<v Speaker 2>lots of eggs and I could free some if I

0:36:41.650 --> 0:36:44.570
<v Speaker 2>want to. And it was just everything. It was the

0:36:44.610 --> 0:36:50.450
<v Speaker 2>IVF chat. It was going off medication and even for himself,

0:36:50.570 --> 0:36:55.530
<v Speaker 2>like what vitamins he should take. Yeah, it became super

0:36:55.530 --> 0:37:03.690
<v Speaker 2>serious and very quickly sex was about conceiving. So we

0:37:03.810 --> 0:37:09.170
<v Speaker 2>had been sleeping together for about eight months when the

0:37:09.290 --> 0:37:14.010
<v Speaker 2>sex started to be about how kids, and it was

0:37:14.210 --> 0:37:19.490
<v Speaker 2>every time he was home. The sex was not passionate.

0:37:19.810 --> 0:37:25.090
<v Speaker 2>It became about having a baby. He didn't know, but

0:37:25.450 --> 0:37:28.210
<v Speaker 2>I was taking the pill this whole time because I

0:37:28.330 --> 0:37:31.490
<v Speaker 2>wanted to have some sort of control and I wanted

0:37:31.530 --> 0:37:35.570
<v Speaker 2>to have a say, and you know my decision. But

0:37:35.850 --> 0:37:38.810
<v Speaker 2>my heart just loved him so much. I didn't want

0:37:38.850 --> 0:37:41.890
<v Speaker 2>to let him down. And I just thought, if I

0:37:42.050 --> 0:37:45.930
<v Speaker 2>just like hold off, like you know, so many women

0:37:47.010 --> 0:37:50.490
<v Speaker 2>don't have babies right away, So if I can just

0:37:50.570 --> 0:37:53.930
<v Speaker 2>hold off until, like I'm ready, then I'll go off

0:37:53.970 --> 0:37:57.610
<v Speaker 2>the pill. But because he was so up in my

0:37:57.690 --> 0:38:03.250
<v Speaker 2>business and every aspect of my life, I would get

0:38:03.290 --> 0:38:07.250
<v Speaker 2>my sheets of contraception pill and I would pop them

0:38:07.250 --> 0:38:10.890
<v Speaker 2>all out and put them in my vitamin jar so

0:38:11.010 --> 0:38:14.170
<v Speaker 2>that he did know. He would never check like my

0:38:14.370 --> 0:38:17.490
<v Speaker 2>vitamin C jar, you know. And so that's how I

0:38:17.530 --> 0:38:20.570
<v Speaker 2>took my pill every day when he was home.

0:38:22.810 --> 0:38:26.610
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so this doesn't sound great, surely, Lauren realized that.

0:38:27.330 --> 0:38:34.970
<v Speaker 2>To be quite honest, No, because I just adored him,

0:38:35.370 --> 0:38:38.130
<v Speaker 2>and a part of me loved that he wanted to

0:38:38.130 --> 0:38:41.450
<v Speaker 2>be a dad so much, because I, like, I could

0:38:41.530 --> 0:38:45.010
<v Speaker 2>see myself being with him forever and I could see

0:38:45.050 --> 0:38:49.570
<v Speaker 2>myself having kids with him. It just wasn't right then.

0:38:50.210 --> 0:38:54.490
<v Speaker 2>I just wasn't ready to have a baby like right then.

0:38:54.610 --> 0:38:57.890
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to wait a little bit longer. And even

0:38:57.930 --> 0:39:01.370
<v Speaker 2>though I told him that he was very good at

0:39:01.930 --> 0:39:07.050
<v Speaker 2>getting his way with everything, but also a part of

0:39:07.090 --> 0:39:11.650
<v Speaker 2>me like felt quite empowered because it was my book,

0:39:12.650 --> 0:39:16.770
<v Speaker 2>It's my uterus. You know. He can't just have a

0:39:16.850 --> 0:39:19.930
<v Speaker 2>baby whenever he wants. It doesn't work that way, right,

0:39:20.490 --> 0:39:24.770
<v Speaker 2>So I kept taking my pill, and every day when

0:39:24.810 --> 0:39:27.930
<v Speaker 2>I would take my pill, I would like say to myself, like, yes,

0:39:28.650 --> 0:39:32.810
<v Speaker 2>that's up to you, Like this is your choice, nobody else's,

0:39:33.090 --> 0:39:40.450
<v Speaker 2>And he was just had no idea. Yeah, so I

0:39:40.490 --> 0:39:45.530
<v Speaker 2>would say we were actively trying quote unquote to get

0:39:45.530 --> 0:39:49.690
<v Speaker 2>pregnant for about three months. He thought that it would

0:39:49.690 --> 0:39:55.890
<v Speaker 2>happen really fast because I was young, fit, healthy, young lady.

0:39:56.090 --> 0:39:59.050
<v Speaker 2>He thought I would get pregnant pretty quickly, and of

0:39:59.090 --> 0:40:02.090
<v Speaker 2>course it didn't. One day, when he was at work,

0:40:02.570 --> 0:40:07.450
<v Speaker 2>I received an email and it came from a lawyer,

0:40:08.450 --> 0:40:11.170
<v Speaker 2>but it wasn't written by the lawyer. The letter was

0:40:11.170 --> 0:40:16.210
<v Speaker 2>written by Jason. And I don't know if it was

0:40:16.290 --> 0:40:21.050
<v Speaker 2>real or if it was fake, but the contract basically

0:40:21.170 --> 0:40:27.890
<v Speaker 2>listed a few terms and conditions to being his baby mama.

0:40:30.410 --> 0:40:36.010
<v Speaker 2>Dear Lauren Police. He attached a contract for future children

0:40:36.370 --> 0:40:47.250
<v Speaker 2>with Jason. I had a quick flick through it and

0:40:48.010 --> 0:40:53.130
<v Speaker 2>I just like, I just burst into tears because I

0:40:53.330 --> 0:40:56.850
<v Speaker 2>thought that he was my best friend. We were in love,

0:40:57.450 --> 0:41:02.690
<v Speaker 2>we were like talking about our future. We were potentially

0:41:02.730 --> 0:41:06.010
<v Speaker 2>going to have a family one day. And reading this

0:41:06.370 --> 0:41:10.490
<v Speaker 2>email just was like a stab in the heart because

0:41:11.490 --> 0:41:16.010
<v Speaker 2>the conditions that were listed in this document were disgusting,

0:41:16.850 --> 0:41:22.130
<v Speaker 2>like just something that you would like never ever want

0:41:22.170 --> 0:41:25.170
<v Speaker 2>to give the mother of your children. The first one

0:41:25.370 --> 0:41:29.370
<v Speaker 2>was that I had to return back to my previous

0:41:30.130 --> 0:41:36.130
<v Speaker 2>weight within three months of giving birth. That I would

0:41:36.210 --> 0:41:40.810
<v Speaker 2>have to cover fifty to fifty percent of the expenses

0:41:40.850 --> 0:41:44.490
<v Speaker 2>when it came to having a child, that I was

0:41:44.530 --> 0:41:47.890
<v Speaker 2>not to have a c section, I had to give

0:41:47.970 --> 0:41:53.170
<v Speaker 2>birth naturally because according to his research, a vaginal birth

0:41:53.410 --> 0:41:58.290
<v Speaker 2>is better for the babies microbiom. That he would be

0:41:58.370 --> 0:42:04.930
<v Speaker 2>naming the children, he would choose the names. I don't

0:42:05.050 --> 0:42:07.610
<v Speaker 2>think at the time I even finished reading the document.

0:42:07.730 --> 0:42:12.010
<v Speaker 2>It just made me sick because never ever in my

0:42:12.130 --> 0:42:15.930
<v Speaker 2>life had I seen this side of him before. It

0:42:15.970 --> 0:42:18.650
<v Speaker 2>broke me because here I was thinking I had a

0:42:18.690 --> 0:42:22.010
<v Speaker 2>bit of control around when I was going to conceive

0:42:22.890 --> 0:42:28.690
<v Speaker 2>another life, and here's him sending me all these terms

0:42:28.690 --> 0:42:32.970
<v Speaker 2>and conditions, thinking that he owned me and that I

0:42:33.010 --> 0:42:40.010
<v Speaker 2>would oblige. I immediately picked up my phone and tried

0:42:40.010 --> 0:42:43.370
<v Speaker 2>to call him because I thought it was a prank.

0:42:44.250 --> 0:42:47.690
<v Speaker 2>I thought, like, there's no way he would the depth

0:42:47.730 --> 0:42:52.050
<v Speaker 2>that we went through talking about our future kids, none

0:42:52.130 --> 0:42:57.130
<v Speaker 2>of that ever came up. And that's why I was

0:42:57.210 --> 0:43:00.650
<v Speaker 2>so shocked, Like I just gonn't believe it. And when

0:43:00.690 --> 0:43:02.410
<v Speaker 2>I picked up the phone and tried to call him,

0:43:02.850 --> 0:43:06.170
<v Speaker 2>of course he didn't answer. He knew what was calling.

0:43:08.010 --> 0:43:12.090
<v Speaker 2>I just waited, waited to hear from him, wait to

0:43:12.130 --> 0:43:16.770
<v Speaker 2>see what kind of explanation he could possibly have. When

0:43:16.810 --> 0:43:19.730
<v Speaker 2>we did get in touch, it was probably the next day.

0:43:20.770 --> 0:43:26.490
<v Speaker 2>I asked him pretty straight up. I just said, was

0:43:26.610 --> 0:43:29.490
<v Speaker 2>all of this just to have a kid that you

0:43:29.570 --> 0:43:33.930
<v Speaker 2>can keep as your own? Like, because I felt like, well,

0:43:33.930 --> 0:43:36.690
<v Speaker 2>where do I fit into the picture when the baby comes,

0:43:36.810 --> 0:43:41.290
<v Speaker 2>Like I can't name my own child or have an

0:43:41.330 --> 0:43:46.370
<v Speaker 2>input into the name. Like I asked him, did you

0:43:46.490 --> 0:43:50.730
<v Speaker 2>do this just to have a baby with me? And now,

0:43:50.770 --> 0:43:54.130
<v Speaker 2>of course he said, no, no, no, it's not like

0:43:54.210 --> 0:43:58.290
<v Speaker 2>that at all. I'm just trying to protect myself. I

0:43:58.330 --> 0:44:06.930
<v Speaker 2>had this deep feeling that Jason had planned this to

0:44:07.050 --> 0:44:10.490
<v Speaker 2>have a child to fulfill his dream of having a child.

0:44:11.330 --> 0:44:13.810
<v Speaker 2>At this same time, I was trying to convince myself

0:44:13.810 --> 0:44:18.450
<v Speaker 2>that that wasn't true because of the relationship that we built,

0:44:18.610 --> 0:44:21.810
<v Speaker 2>because of the memories that we had, like the traveling

0:44:22.050 --> 0:44:26.650
<v Speaker 2>and staying up all night talking about like our dreams

0:44:26.730 --> 0:44:30.650
<v Speaker 2>and talking about traveling with our kids and all of that.

0:44:30.730 --> 0:44:36.810
<v Speaker 2>I just couldn't believe that he had manipulated me into

0:44:36.850 --> 0:44:42.290
<v Speaker 2>having a baby. Although I think that that was the case.

0:44:43.570 --> 0:44:48.050
<v Speaker 2>Straight away was like, nah, I'm not doing it no way,

0:44:48.290 --> 0:44:52.850
<v Speaker 2>because I had seen from family members, you know, who

0:44:52.890 --> 0:44:57.090
<v Speaker 2>had had kids young, and the tumultuous relationships that they

0:44:57.130 --> 0:45:01.130
<v Speaker 2>had had with their their kids' fathers, and I just

0:45:01.210 --> 0:45:06.650
<v Speaker 2>thought to myself, I have to pick my kid's father.

0:45:08.050 --> 0:45:10.530
<v Speaker 2>It has to be the most important decision I'm ever

0:45:10.570 --> 0:45:15.970
<v Speaker 2>going to make. Because I thought that this man loved

0:45:15.970 --> 0:45:20.050
<v Speaker 2>me and adored me more than anyone else in the world,

0:45:21.090 --> 0:45:26.170
<v Speaker 2>and he still looked at me like that, like that

0:45:26.250 --> 0:45:28.450
<v Speaker 2>I belonged to him, That he could tell me what

0:45:28.530 --> 0:45:32.290
<v Speaker 2>to do with my body, that he could tell me

0:45:32.370 --> 0:45:35.730
<v Speaker 2>that I had no choice or control around my own kids,

0:45:36.850 --> 0:45:40.530
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, I knew that I had to get out.

0:45:41.810 --> 0:45:47.490
<v Speaker 2>Then once I received the contract, I realized in that

0:45:47.650 --> 0:45:50.650
<v Speaker 2>moment that my life was never going to be the

0:45:50.650 --> 0:46:01.330
<v Speaker 2>same again. I immediately had an emotional change, and it

0:46:01.410 --> 0:46:04.530
<v Speaker 2>was something I couldn't really help. You know, as women,

0:46:04.650 --> 0:46:09.330
<v Speaker 2>we tend to check out emotionally before we do physically.

0:46:09.650 --> 0:46:13.610
<v Speaker 2>And I felt that, and over the course of about

0:46:14.730 --> 0:46:19.050
<v Speaker 2>two months that Paul just felt stronger and stronger. The

0:46:19.050 --> 0:46:23.090
<v Speaker 2>more I thought about getting married, having kids, being with

0:46:23.170 --> 0:46:29.610
<v Speaker 2>a husband who wants to adore me in motherhood and

0:46:29.730 --> 0:46:33.610
<v Speaker 2>enjoy the natural process of, you know, having a family,

0:46:34.570 --> 0:46:38.330
<v Speaker 2>I felt that that wasn't going to happen with Jason.

0:46:39.650 --> 0:46:47.290
<v Speaker 2>After the contract, I wanted to kind of maintain what

0:46:47.370 --> 0:46:52.250
<v Speaker 2>we had and put that behind us, because there was

0:46:52.330 --> 0:46:57.050
<v Speaker 2>so much good in what we had, and I wanted

0:46:57.090 --> 0:47:02.370
<v Speaker 2>to believe that that was a mistake he made. So

0:47:02.490 --> 0:47:08.890
<v Speaker 2>I kind of continued to put in the effort that

0:47:09.770 --> 0:47:13.210
<v Speaker 2>I had done before, you know, keeping up the communication

0:47:13.370 --> 0:47:18.010
<v Speaker 2>when he was away for work and talking about kids,

0:47:18.530 --> 0:47:22.170
<v Speaker 2>talking about the future. I was so afraid of losing

0:47:22.250 --> 0:47:26.690
<v Speaker 2>him that I wanted to keep him interested. But when

0:47:26.690 --> 0:47:30.850
<v Speaker 2>he went back to work, like the messages stopped coming,

0:47:31.570 --> 0:47:34.770
<v Speaker 2>he stopped replying, or he left me unseen a lot,

0:47:36.090 --> 0:47:41.770
<v Speaker 2>and he stopped calling as well, And like I knew,

0:47:42.850 --> 0:47:46.250
<v Speaker 2>I knew that it wasn't going to be the same

0:47:46.290 --> 0:47:50.530
<v Speaker 2>as it was. But every day I would message him

0:47:50.610 --> 0:47:53.850
<v Speaker 2>like hey, babe, how's your day going, And I miss you.

0:47:54.290 --> 0:47:58.570
<v Speaker 2>I can't wait to your home again, and he'd say, hey, thanks, yeah,

0:47:58.650 --> 0:48:02.690
<v Speaker 2>I'm tired, talk tomorrow. And that just was not the

0:48:02.810 --> 0:48:06.290
<v Speaker 2>Jason that I knew and loved. When he got home

0:48:06.370 --> 0:48:11.370
<v Speaker 2>after that swing at work, it was the same. It was,

0:48:12.850 --> 0:48:14.890
<v Speaker 2>you know, he didn't want to talk, he didn't want

0:48:14.890 --> 0:48:17.170
<v Speaker 2>to hang out, he didn't want to do the things

0:48:17.210 --> 0:48:21.250
<v Speaker 2>that we enjoyed. I found that he was, you know,

0:48:21.290 --> 0:48:23.890
<v Speaker 2>going to the gym by himself, when we always did

0:48:23.890 --> 0:48:27.450
<v Speaker 2>that together. We always cooked together, like all of our

0:48:27.530 --> 0:48:30.050
<v Speaker 2>meals like breakfast, lunch, and dinner. When he was home,

0:48:30.130 --> 0:48:33.610
<v Speaker 2>we cooked together. The first day he came home, I

0:48:33.650 --> 0:48:35.610
<v Speaker 2>woke up in the morning and he had just eaten

0:48:35.650 --> 0:48:38.970
<v Speaker 2>his breakfast and left. And that was like, yeah, it

0:48:39.050 --> 0:48:45.010
<v Speaker 2>really broke my heart because I knew he was trying

0:48:45.010 --> 0:48:49.410
<v Speaker 2>to send a message, almost like almost trying to prepare

0:48:49.450 --> 0:48:54.130
<v Speaker 2>me for the breakup. I ended up going to my mom's.

0:48:54.170 --> 0:48:55.930
<v Speaker 2>I packed a bag and I went to my mom's

0:48:56.010 --> 0:48:58.690
<v Speaker 2>and I just said, I need to have a breather

0:48:58.850 --> 0:49:01.890
<v Speaker 2>and can't stay with mum. And I, oh, chat to

0:49:01.930 --> 0:49:05.090
<v Speaker 2>you soon, and he just said, yeap, okay. So I

0:49:05.090 --> 0:49:09.370
<v Speaker 2>spent about a month at my mom's and during that

0:49:09.450 --> 0:49:15.650
<v Speaker 2>time I told her everything about how it began and

0:49:15.690 --> 0:49:19.890
<v Speaker 2>how it progressed into what it was, and telling her

0:49:20.090 --> 0:49:26.010
<v Speaker 2>all about, you know, the baby making and how he

0:49:26.130 --> 0:49:30.530
<v Speaker 2>just became so obsessed with wanting to have a baby.

0:49:31.490 --> 0:49:37.050
<v Speaker 2>And my mom, she's a dag. She just said to me, girl,

0:49:37.250 --> 0:49:40.410
<v Speaker 2>if you don't get up out of that house right now,

0:49:41.090 --> 0:49:44.210
<v Speaker 2>you are going to be stuck with that man for

0:49:44.250 --> 0:49:46.890
<v Speaker 2>the rest of your life telling you how to raise

0:49:47.130 --> 0:49:51.490
<v Speaker 2>your baby. And I knew she was right. I knew

0:49:51.530 --> 0:49:53.810
<v Speaker 2>she was right. I just needed a little bit more

0:49:53.890 --> 0:49:59.330
<v Speaker 2>time to process it. And I kind of like wanted

0:49:59.410 --> 0:50:01.210
<v Speaker 2>him to come and sweep me off my feet, Like

0:50:01.290 --> 0:50:03.610
<v Speaker 2>I wanted him to just rock up to mums and

0:50:03.930 --> 0:50:07.090
<v Speaker 2>just say, oh, like I'm sorry, let's just like start over.

0:50:07.330 --> 0:50:09.410
<v Speaker 2>And I would have jumped in his arms right then

0:50:09.450 --> 0:50:15.410
<v Speaker 2>and there. He never came. He would message me like

0:50:15.610 --> 0:50:17.650
<v Speaker 2>every few days and say like when you're coming home,

0:50:18.610 --> 0:50:21.210
<v Speaker 2>and so yeah, maybe maybe this week, maybe next week.

0:50:22.170 --> 0:50:27.090
<v Speaker 2>But he never wanted to resolve anything or you know,

0:50:27.330 --> 0:50:30.690
<v Speaker 2>he never wanted to say sorry. I wanted him to

0:50:30.690 --> 0:50:33.930
<v Speaker 2>say sorry so bad, so that we could just start over.

0:50:35.330 --> 0:50:41.690
<v Speaker 2>I started to kind of map out how I would

0:50:41.770 --> 0:50:45.410
<v Speaker 2>leave and where I would go and what I would

0:50:45.450 --> 0:50:50.370
<v Speaker 2>say to him so that it wasn't a big fight

0:50:50.810 --> 0:50:54.170
<v Speaker 2>it was. I wanted it to be smooth, so that

0:50:55.650 --> 0:50:59.170
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't hurting him. I never wanted to hurt him,

0:50:59.730 --> 0:51:06.010
<v Speaker 2>and I knew that once I did leave, it wouldn't

0:51:06.010 --> 0:51:09.770
<v Speaker 2>be easy. I knew that it would take a long

0:51:09.890 --> 0:51:12.650
<v Speaker 2>time for us to detach from me each other because

0:51:13.130 --> 0:51:17.450
<v Speaker 2>we were in each other's pocket twenty four seven. So

0:51:18.610 --> 0:51:24.890
<v Speaker 2>I eventually went home to collect my things, and I

0:51:24.890 --> 0:51:27.730
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to go alone because I didn't want to

0:51:27.890 --> 0:51:30.210
<v Speaker 2>backpedal on all the work that I had done with

0:51:30.250 --> 0:51:33.850
<v Speaker 2>my mom and my family, my sister. So I knew

0:51:33.850 --> 0:51:37.490
<v Speaker 2>I had to go there with somebody. So I asked

0:51:37.490 --> 0:51:40.770
<v Speaker 2>my brother to come with me. And he liked Jason,

0:51:41.010 --> 0:51:44.370
<v Speaker 2>they were friends, but he didn't care. He wanted me

0:51:44.450 --> 0:51:47.810
<v Speaker 2>to get out of there. So yeah, he took me

0:51:47.890 --> 0:51:51.050
<v Speaker 2>home and I just went into the house and I

0:51:51.090 --> 0:51:54.010
<v Speaker 2>started picking up my things, and a lot of the

0:51:54.090 --> 0:52:00.930
<v Speaker 2>things were his because he took care of everything. He

0:52:00.970 --> 0:52:04.210
<v Speaker 2>paid for everything, he bought everything. So when I was

0:52:04.250 --> 0:52:07.050
<v Speaker 2>packing up my things. I looked around and I realized, like,

0:52:07.810 --> 0:52:11.130
<v Speaker 2>there's like hardly any of me here, you know, like

0:52:11.210 --> 0:52:15.530
<v Speaker 2>a few eggs and clothes and like here straightener and

0:52:15.890 --> 0:52:18.170
<v Speaker 2>a few bits and bobs like that. But other than that,

0:52:18.570 --> 0:52:21.050
<v Speaker 2>it's really like his life and I was just living

0:52:21.090 --> 0:52:24.290
<v Speaker 2>in it. I said to him, like, okay, I'm picking

0:52:24.330 --> 0:52:26.130
<v Speaker 2>up my things and I'm going to move in with

0:52:26.130 --> 0:52:31.210
<v Speaker 2>my mum, and he just gave me a big hug

0:52:32.010 --> 0:52:34.650
<v Speaker 2>and we had a little cry together.

0:52:36.090 --> 0:52:39.810
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was really sad. The last thing he said

0:52:39.850 --> 0:52:42.450
<v Speaker 3>to me was just if you ever need anything, I'll

0:52:42.450 --> 0:52:47.730
<v Speaker 3>be there. It was packed up the car and.

0:52:49.650 --> 0:52:54.130
<v Speaker 2>I left and I never went back. We both knew

0:52:54.690 --> 0:52:58.010
<v Speaker 2>we didn't have to have a conversation or like an

0:52:58.090 --> 0:53:00.890
<v Speaker 2>argument or anything. We just knew that that was the

0:53:00.930 --> 0:53:04.410
<v Speaker 2>best thing to do for us. I think he felt

0:53:04.490 --> 0:53:07.890
<v Speaker 2>that he had to let me go because he, like

0:53:08.410 --> 0:53:12.450
<v Speaker 2>I was twenty eight when I left, meant ten years

0:53:12.450 --> 0:53:17.530
<v Speaker 2>with him, and I think he knew that he had

0:53:17.530 --> 0:53:20.530
<v Speaker 2>to let me go and live my life. For the

0:53:20.530 --> 0:53:25.610
<v Speaker 2>first few weeks after I left, I stayed in my

0:53:25.690 --> 0:53:33.610
<v Speaker 2>bed and talked to no one and did nothing. I

0:53:33.810 --> 0:53:40.530
<v Speaker 2>was so sad. I was grieving like the friendship more

0:53:40.570 --> 0:53:45.690
<v Speaker 2>than anything. It was more the friendship that I lost

0:53:45.810 --> 0:53:49.770
<v Speaker 2>that I was so so sad about. Like every time

0:53:49.890 --> 0:53:53.930
<v Speaker 2>my phone would light up, I would think, ah'ser him,

0:53:54.210 --> 0:53:59.650
<v Speaker 2>because we like messaged each other all day and I

0:53:59.770 --> 0:54:04.170
<v Speaker 2>missed that, Like my phone stopped going flat because I

0:54:04.250 --> 0:54:07.410
<v Speaker 2>wasn't getting any messages or any calls. And because he

0:54:07.610 --> 0:54:11.410
<v Speaker 2>was my whole world. I didn't really have many friends

0:54:11.730 --> 0:54:16.570
<v Speaker 2>outside of our relationship, so I didn't even really have

0:54:16.610 --> 0:54:20.130
<v Speaker 2>anyone to talk about it with. I didn't really want

0:54:20.130 --> 0:54:23.170
<v Speaker 2>to get to know somebody else and do all that

0:54:23.290 --> 0:54:27.570
<v Speaker 2>again to one day maybe have kids. I thought that

0:54:27.690 --> 0:54:30.090
<v Speaker 2>we were in the right spot to like kind of

0:54:30.130 --> 0:54:36.010
<v Speaker 2>getting there, and it was even though our timings were

0:54:36.050 --> 0:54:41.130
<v Speaker 2>not in line, I did think, yeah, maybe one more year,

0:54:41.170 --> 0:54:45.130
<v Speaker 2>and like, yeah, I'd love to have a baby. Yeah.

0:54:45.130 --> 0:54:48.730
<v Speaker 2>So I was really scared. I was really scared about

0:54:49.210 --> 0:54:53.890
<v Speaker 2>leaving and starting over and meeting someone else. Even though

0:54:53.930 --> 0:54:56.770
<v Speaker 2>I was young at the time, I just didn't feel young.

0:54:57.890 --> 0:54:59.890
<v Speaker 2>It was a big chunk of my life, and he

0:55:00.170 --> 0:55:04.370
<v Speaker 2>was really all I knew. I had had very short

0:55:05.010 --> 0:55:09.970
<v Speaker 2>term relationships, but other than that, I didn't know anything

0:55:09.970 --> 0:55:13.970
<v Speaker 2>else other than Jason. He taught me. Everything that I

0:55:14.050 --> 0:55:19.330
<v Speaker 2>knew about friendship, relationship, sex, like it all started with him,

0:55:19.730 --> 0:55:23.010
<v Speaker 2>and I was petrified of ever doing any of that

0:55:23.130 --> 0:55:27.930
<v Speaker 2>with anybody else. When I first moved to Sydney, I

0:55:27.970 --> 0:55:30.930
<v Speaker 2>didn't really know anyone or anything. I was so young,

0:55:32.290 --> 0:55:38.930
<v Speaker 2>and he took me in and cared for me. He

0:55:39.050 --> 0:55:45.330
<v Speaker 2>protected me. He was so much and he taught me

0:55:45.370 --> 0:55:48.850
<v Speaker 2>so much as well. He really did. I felt like

0:55:50.490 --> 0:55:55.010
<v Speaker 2>he was a gentleman. I felt that he treated me good,

0:55:55.290 --> 0:55:59.970
<v Speaker 2>he adored me. He would tell me I was beautiful

0:56:00.090 --> 0:56:05.250
<v Speaker 2>and that he was the only person that could take

0:56:05.250 --> 0:56:09.650
<v Speaker 2>care of me, and I believed every single word he said.

0:56:09.690 --> 0:56:13.370
<v Speaker 2>I ate it up. Yeah, I felt like a million

0:56:13.410 --> 0:56:16.490
<v Speaker 2>bucks when we were together. Yeah, that's how he made

0:56:16.530 --> 0:56:25.850
<v Speaker 2>me feel. For about a month to eight weeks, I

0:56:25.970 --> 0:56:34.050
<v Speaker 2>was depressed, grieving. I missed him so much. He was

0:56:34.210 --> 0:56:37.610
<v Speaker 2>all I thought about, and I just really hoped that

0:56:38.090 --> 0:56:44.450
<v Speaker 2>he was happy, Like I really hoped that he would

0:56:44.450 --> 0:56:47.570
<v Speaker 2>be able to like find the courage to come out,

0:56:48.090 --> 0:56:52.330
<v Speaker 2>like find a partner and have a baby with his partner,

0:56:52.650 --> 0:56:55.170
<v Speaker 2>because I think deep down that's what he really wanted.

0:56:56.050 --> 0:57:02.730
<v Speaker 2>I felt that his shame of his sexuality was kind

0:57:02.730 --> 0:57:06.850
<v Speaker 2>of tainting his dream, you know, his true dream, which

0:57:06.970 --> 0:57:09.690
<v Speaker 2>was to have a male partner and have a family

0:57:09.730 --> 0:57:12.730
<v Speaker 2>with him. Yeah. I just felt I was doing the

0:57:12.810 --> 0:57:17.530
<v Speaker 2>right thing by going no contact and just leaving and

0:57:17.690 --> 0:57:20.010
<v Speaker 2>letting him do his thing, and maybe he felt the

0:57:20.050 --> 0:57:23.370
<v Speaker 2>same way about me as well. But about three months

0:57:23.410 --> 0:57:28.930
<v Speaker 2>after I moved out, I received a message on Instagram

0:57:29.890 --> 0:57:35.930
<v Speaker 2>and it was from a girl, and the message just said, Hey, Lauren,

0:57:36.690 --> 0:57:42.130
<v Speaker 2>can I ask you a question? Is Jason gay? And

0:57:42.610 --> 0:57:46.490
<v Speaker 2>my heart sank. I felt like I was going to

0:57:46.610 --> 0:57:52.610
<v Speaker 2>vomit because I thought, oh, my gosh, why would somebody

0:57:52.650 --> 0:57:56.890
<v Speaker 2>say that? Because we didn't use labels, we didn't use

0:57:57.090 --> 0:58:03.490
<v Speaker 2>words like that to describe each other. I didn't respond

0:58:03.730 --> 0:58:08.370
<v Speaker 2>to the message because I was just too protective of

0:58:08.450 --> 0:58:14.010
<v Speaker 2>him and it wasn't my place to tell anyone about

0:58:14.050 --> 0:58:18.490
<v Speaker 2>his private life. But I did find out from a

0:58:18.530 --> 0:58:22.210
<v Speaker 2>few of our mutual friends that he was dating her

0:58:23.250 --> 0:58:26.930
<v Speaker 2>and they had actually met at work while we were together.

0:58:28.090 --> 0:58:31.690
<v Speaker 2>I felt like receiving that information it was like, great,

0:58:32.330 --> 0:58:38.330
<v Speaker 2>close that book, and now we are Because there was

0:58:38.370 --> 0:58:40.530
<v Speaker 2>always a little part of me that if he said jump,

0:58:40.570 --> 0:58:43.370
<v Speaker 2>I would have said how high even after I left,

0:58:43.850 --> 0:58:47.770
<v Speaker 2>But getting that information was like that was closure for me,

0:58:48.810 --> 0:58:53.050
<v Speaker 2>I could move on. By this stage, I had already

0:58:53.050 --> 0:58:55.250
<v Speaker 2>done a little bit of you know, deep work and

0:58:55.450 --> 0:58:58.730
<v Speaker 2>was working on myself. And you know, if I had

0:58:58.850 --> 0:59:01.170
<v Speaker 2>received that message the day after I walked out of

0:59:01.210 --> 0:59:05.610
<v Speaker 2>their house, I think I would have collapsed. But at

0:59:05.650 --> 0:59:10.850
<v Speaker 2>the time, I really just like felt like, not my monkey,

0:59:10.930 --> 0:59:14.410
<v Speaker 2>not my circuit, you know, like my time is done.

0:59:14.530 --> 0:59:19.530
<v Speaker 2>I've done ten years with this man. I gave him everything, literally,

0:59:20.370 --> 0:59:24.810
<v Speaker 2>like I gave him my body and soul, and now

0:59:24.890 --> 0:59:27.570
<v Speaker 2>it's like up to him to deal with his own demons.

0:59:28.050 --> 0:59:32.130
<v Speaker 2>I didn't hate him, and sometimes I felt like I

0:59:32.170 --> 0:59:35.970
<v Speaker 2>wish I did, so that you know, I could have

0:59:36.050 --> 0:59:38.610
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of like anger, to be like, oh

0:59:38.690 --> 0:59:43.210
<v Speaker 2>this freaking lose ale whatever. But there were too many

0:59:43.250 --> 0:59:49.210
<v Speaker 2>good things about him. Yeah, so that closed it off

0:59:49.250 --> 0:59:49.450
<v Speaker 2>for me.

0:59:49.930 --> 0:59:52.130
<v Speaker 1>It took a while, but Lauren was able to pick

0:59:52.130 --> 0:59:54.730
<v Speaker 1>herself back up and begin to start a new life,

0:59:55.130 --> 0:59:58.170
<v Speaker 1>one without her best friend or her partner. It was

0:59:58.210 --> 1:00:01.250
<v Speaker 1>slow and hard, but she got there and she hasn't

1:00:01.290 --> 1:00:02.130
<v Speaker 1>looked back since.

1:00:02.610 --> 1:00:07.450
<v Speaker 2>I'm married now to my beautiful husband. We've been married

1:00:07.930 --> 1:00:12.970
<v Speaker 2>for three years and we've gotten two little girls who

1:00:13.130 --> 1:00:16.410
<v Speaker 2>are just the absolute light of our life. We love

1:00:16.450 --> 1:00:22.090
<v Speaker 2>them to absolute bits. But when my eldest was about

1:00:22.250 --> 1:00:26.370
<v Speaker 2>eight months old, I decided to take her, like for

1:00:26.490 --> 1:00:29.570
<v Speaker 2>a walk through the city. I had been stuck at

1:00:29.610 --> 1:00:34.250
<v Speaker 2>home during COVID and you know, we're finally allowed down,

1:00:34.690 --> 1:00:37.530
<v Speaker 2>so I decided to take her for a walk. And

1:00:37.570 --> 1:00:41.090
<v Speaker 2>so we jumped on the train and we're just cruising

1:00:41.090 --> 1:00:46.450
<v Speaker 2>down George Street and I hear my name being called

1:00:46.490 --> 1:00:52.570
<v Speaker 2>out from across the street Lauren, and I knew immediately

1:00:52.650 --> 1:00:57.050
<v Speaker 2>hill was my stomach sank. I thought I was going

1:00:57.130 --> 1:01:02.610
<v Speaker 2>to ship my pants because I just thought I knew

1:01:02.610 --> 1:01:03.970
<v Speaker 2>the day was going to come one day, like we

1:01:04.010 --> 1:01:08.610
<v Speaker 2>lived in the same city. But I was really surprised

1:01:09.970 --> 1:01:14.890
<v Speaker 2>he come running across the road Lauren, how ai ya?

1:01:15.330 --> 1:01:18.090
<v Speaker 2>I said, hey, I'm really good and he just looked

1:01:18.130 --> 1:01:20.250
<v Speaker 2>down at the pram and looked up at me and

1:01:20.290 --> 1:01:23.850
<v Speaker 2>he was like, this is I said, yeah, this is

1:01:23.890 --> 1:01:26.170
<v Speaker 2>my daughter, and he was just like he just gave

1:01:26.210 --> 1:01:30.210
<v Speaker 2>me the biggest hug and he was like, oh, my goodness,

1:01:30.250 --> 1:01:34.890
<v Speaker 2>she is so beautiful. Congratulations, I'm so happy for you.

1:01:35.690 --> 1:01:39.330
<v Speaker 2>And I had my hands like on the pram like this,

1:01:39.930 --> 1:01:42.090
<v Speaker 2>and he looked down at my hand and he saw

1:01:42.610 --> 1:01:46.410
<v Speaker 2>my wedding ring, and he was just like he just

1:01:46.450 --> 1:01:49.290
<v Speaker 2>looked at me and he just said, I'm so happy

1:01:49.370 --> 1:01:53.610
<v Speaker 2>that you're happy, and I wish you nothing but the best.

1:01:54.370 --> 1:01:56.010
<v Speaker 2>And I just looked at him and I was like,

1:01:56.050 --> 1:01:59.410
<v Speaker 2>thank you so much. I didn't have have it in

1:01:59.490 --> 1:02:02.010
<v Speaker 2>me to ask him how he was or where he

1:02:02.090 --> 1:02:05.250
<v Speaker 2>was at in his life. I almost didn't want to know.

1:02:06.130 --> 1:02:08.770
<v Speaker 2>And I just said, thanks so much, lovely to see

1:02:08.810 --> 1:02:12.370
<v Speaker 2>you look good. And that was I said, I've got

1:02:12.410 --> 1:02:14.370
<v Speaker 2>to get going. He's like, yeah, no worries, you know,

1:02:14.370 --> 1:02:16.450
<v Speaker 2>I have a good day. And that was it. And

1:02:17.170 --> 1:02:24.330
<v Speaker 2>that was four years ago, and yeah, it was It

1:02:24.490 --> 1:02:29.370
<v Speaker 2>was a super like healing moment for me, just to

1:02:29.450 --> 1:02:34.130
<v Speaker 2>see that he was well and he looked happy, like

1:02:34.610 --> 1:02:38.770
<v Speaker 2>he looked like his usual self. I have a couple

1:02:38.810 --> 1:02:41.850
<v Speaker 2>of mutual friends like that we're still friends with on Facebook.

1:02:41.930 --> 1:02:46.050
<v Speaker 2>But I don't think that Jason is involved much in

1:02:46.090 --> 1:02:51.810
<v Speaker 2>the LGBTQ plus community anymore. Yeah, just because I haven't

1:02:51.850 --> 1:02:56.250
<v Speaker 2>seen like anything of him anywhere, you know, with my

1:02:56.370 --> 1:03:00.610
<v Speaker 2>friends who are still quite active in the social communities.

1:03:01.090 --> 1:03:04.330
<v Speaker 2>I've always like hoped and wished that he would live

1:03:04.370 --> 1:03:09.010
<v Speaker 2>his authentic life out, you know, because I knew that

1:03:09.130 --> 1:03:13.050
<v Speaker 2>side of him for four years, you know, where he

1:03:13.170 --> 1:03:17.370
<v Speaker 2>was like actively dating other men. And yeah, I always

1:03:17.410 --> 1:03:20.130
<v Speaker 2>thought that as he got a bit older and matured

1:03:20.130 --> 1:03:24.210
<v Speaker 2>a bit and was less ashamed, that he would finally

1:03:24.250 --> 1:03:29.610
<v Speaker 2>come out. But yeah, I don't think he has. Jason

1:03:29.650 --> 1:03:34.090
<v Speaker 2>would be in his fifties now, and I would hope

1:03:34.130 --> 1:03:42.090
<v Speaker 2>that he's wise enough now to just be his authentic self.

1:03:42.850 --> 1:03:48.650
<v Speaker 2>And I would hope that even if he doesn't want

1:03:48.690 --> 1:03:52.810
<v Speaker 2>to come out and have a relationship with a man,

1:03:52.930 --> 1:03:56.610
<v Speaker 2>that he feels that he can still have kids on

1:03:56.650 --> 1:04:00.930
<v Speaker 2>his own, he doesn't need somebody else to do it

1:04:00.970 --> 1:04:05.170
<v Speaker 2>with him. I don't miss him now. I'm just really

1:04:05.290 --> 1:04:07.530
<v Speaker 2>lucky to be in the position that I am now

1:04:07.530 --> 1:04:11.770
<v Speaker 2>because I and I know that, you know, finding the

1:04:11.810 --> 1:04:15.010
<v Speaker 2>right person and being married and having kids with a

1:04:15.050 --> 1:04:19.250
<v Speaker 2>guy who just absolutely adawes you and your kids, you know,

1:04:19.290 --> 1:04:22.890
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't always happen that way. So I know that

1:04:23.010 --> 1:04:25.570
<v Speaker 2>and I appreciate that, and I feel like if it

1:04:25.570 --> 1:04:30.330
<v Speaker 2>weren't for Jason and myself and our experience, I would

1:04:30.330 --> 1:04:34.650
<v Speaker 2>have never met my husband and have the family that

1:04:34.690 --> 1:04:38.450
<v Speaker 2>we have today. I always imagine that being the mother

1:04:38.530 --> 1:04:46.050
<v Speaker 2>of Jason's kids would be like walking on eggshells and

1:04:46.210 --> 1:04:53.530
<v Speaker 2>would be like, you know, getting permission for every single thing.

1:04:53.650 --> 1:04:56.930
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if you can't name your own kids, then

1:04:56.970 --> 1:05:00.250
<v Speaker 2>what else could you possibly do as well? And I

1:05:00.410 --> 1:05:04.330
<v Speaker 2>felt that that's the kind of arrangement he wanted when

1:05:04.370 --> 1:05:06.970
<v Speaker 2>seeking out the mother of his kids, or if he

1:05:07.090 --> 1:05:10.210
<v Speaker 2>felt like that would be me. Like he did tell

1:05:10.210 --> 1:05:12.850
<v Speaker 2>me that I would be an amazing minad and that

1:05:13.850 --> 1:05:16.770
<v Speaker 2>I would be the best mum for his kids. And

1:05:16.810 --> 1:05:19.970
<v Speaker 2>it was because I did everything that he wanted, you know,

1:05:20.250 --> 1:05:24.050
<v Speaker 2>I said yes to everything that he wanted and I

1:05:24.130 --> 1:05:29.250
<v Speaker 2>was available to him. Twenty four seven, I look back

1:05:29.330 --> 1:05:34.490
<v Speaker 2>and I think I think Jason picked me, Like from

1:05:34.530 --> 1:05:37.370
<v Speaker 2>that very first night that we met at the party.

1:05:38.410 --> 1:05:44.490
<v Speaker 2>I think he saw me at that party and he

1:05:44.530 --> 1:05:49.410
<v Speaker 2>saw how young I was, how vulnerable I was, and

1:05:49.450 --> 1:05:53.290
<v Speaker 2>how kind I was to him, and how drawn I

1:05:53.450 --> 1:05:55.930
<v Speaker 2>was to him as well, you know, like I said,

1:05:55.970 --> 1:06:04.250
<v Speaker 2>we clicked immediately and I went along with everything that

1:06:04.290 --> 1:06:08.250
<v Speaker 2>he presented to me as a friend. Yeah, so I

1:06:08.410 --> 1:06:13.370
<v Speaker 2>felt that he picked me. But looking back, I really

1:06:13.370 --> 1:06:18.850
<v Speaker 2>don't think that I would change my experience. I guess

1:06:19.170 --> 1:06:22.410
<v Speaker 2>now that I am a mom, I do realize that

1:06:22.730 --> 1:06:29.970
<v Speaker 2>it is a really special and sacred time and sharing

1:06:31.050 --> 1:06:38.650
<v Speaker 2>my kids with my husband is just amazing. And I

1:06:38.690 --> 1:06:44.170
<v Speaker 2>always knew that I would have kids when it felt right,

1:06:45.530 --> 1:06:48.890
<v Speaker 2>and so now that I have that, being a mom

1:06:49.050 --> 1:06:55.530
<v Speaker 2>and experiencing motherhood is literally just the most amazing thing

1:06:55.610 --> 1:06:58.010
<v Speaker 2>I think I've ever done and I ever will do.

1:06:58.650 --> 1:07:00.730
<v Speaker 2>I always thought that the love that I had for

1:07:00.850 --> 1:07:06.250
<v Speaker 2>Jason was, you know, beyond this earth, but truly being

1:07:06.290 --> 1:07:14.930
<v Speaker 2>a mom and having kids and experienceing them is so

1:07:15.090 --> 1:07:19.570
<v Speaker 2>much more, so much more than anything that you'd ever

1:07:19.650 --> 1:07:21.930
<v Speaker 2>experience with a partner. I truly believe that.

1:07:37.570 --> 1:07:40.970
<v Speaker 1>Everyone Has an X is a Mintimedia production and proudly

1:07:41.050 --> 1:07:44.130
<v Speaker 1>part of the Muma Mea network. It's written and narrated

1:07:44.170 --> 1:07:47.570
<v Speaker 1>by me Georgia Love and produced by Linda Scott. If

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