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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: It's a bit like sex as well, like sometimes you

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Speaker 1: just don't feel like it, like the thought of it.

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Speaker 1: You're like, I don't know, I'd hate that. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: i'd hate that, you think to yourself. But then you

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Speaker 1: have a great time.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Mom and Mia out loud. It's

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Speaker 2: what women are actually talking about on Monday, the twenty

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Speaker 2: fourth of February. I'm Holly way.

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Speaker 1: Right, and I am back bitch is I'm meya f.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Jessees.

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Speaker 2: They're being cool if you're not watching Severance. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: a Severance reference.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, correct, my friends exactly because we're at work, so

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Speaker 3: we are yes, yef and your Holly is your hollyw W.

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Speaker 3: And we've decided that actually talking about how much we

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Speaker 3: love Severance is just trying to tell people how smummy this.

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Speaker 2: It's definitely a flex and if you do love Severance,

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Speaker 2: we may be recording a subscript episode about it very soon.

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Speaker 2: But on today's show, the person we're not talking about

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Speaker 2: in the story of the parenting influencer who went to jail. Also,

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Speaker 2: everyone's lonely, but no one wants to make plans. Why

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Speaker 2: we're in the year of the Flake, unless you're mere Friedman,

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Speaker 2: who has mastered the pre flake, and I have some

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Speaker 2: feedback for you about that. Also why we're all falling

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Speaker 2: over ourselves to book into the White Lotus, even though

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Speaker 2: the stuff might try and kill us there, But first

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Speaker 2: mea Friedman.

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Speaker 1: In case you missed it, it's rough out there in

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Speaker 1: the news cycle, which is probably why a post about

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Speaker 1: whimsy went viral over the weekend. Whimsy is not a

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Speaker 1: word that you hear very often, and I couldn't refine

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Speaker 1: it myself, so I looked up the definition. It's like

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Speaker 1: a playful, fanciful quality, full of odd or unpredictable ideas

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Speaker 1: that brings lighthearted humor and makes ordinary things feel a

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Speaker 1: bit magical and joyful. So someone asked women in a

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Speaker 1: video on TikTok what their whimsical little habits are, and

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Speaker 1: the internet responded in a way that felt a little

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Speaker 1: bit like a magical hug. Some of the answers included

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Speaker 1: when my cat clearly wants something and meows at me,

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Speaker 1: I tell her to use your words.

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Speaker 3: I often say that's shell.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, very cute.

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Speaker 1: For my own amusement, I say officers and nod. When

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Speaker 1: I see pigeons, I say, may I take your coat

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Speaker 1: while peeling garlic. I didn't understand that because I don't

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Speaker 1: peel garlic very often.

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Speaker 2: The garlic's wearing little coats. Okay, paper coats.

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Speaker 1: I call my to do list, my tadar list, and

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Speaker 1: do jazz hands as I tick things off. That's cute.

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Speaker 2: I like that.

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Speaker 1: I kiss my cat on both cheeks, then she kisses

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Speaker 1: me on both cheeks. Then I explained she's European to

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Speaker 1: no one. So can you think of many examples of whimsy?

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Speaker 2: I think everybody does it with their pets, right, Pets

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Speaker 2: bring out the wims in you. We all have a

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Speaker 2: voice for a dog. I assume I do for a

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Speaker 2: very specific voice. But you know what, I was trying

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Speaker 2: to do the voice before in the toilet, like I

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Speaker 2: was warming up, and I was like, let's do the voice.

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Speaker 2: I cannot do it unless she's there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, you can't conjure it.

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Speaker 2: Cute little face.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I know what you mean. Clara and I have

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Speaker 3: exclusively spoken through the girls, babies and I've realized, you know,

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Speaker 3: when you look at your your whimsical thing and you go,

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Speaker 3: might actually not be that pc because Matilda speaks with

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Speaker 3: an accent. I'm not going to say what accent, but

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Speaker 3: she actually doesn't speak English English second it's her second language,

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Speaker 3: because she doesn't yet, no, she doesn't. She babbles and

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Speaker 3: we go, well, yes, that is her language. And so

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Speaker 3: we often text from the girls to one another. Clara

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Speaker 3: and I haven't had a conversation in nearly two years.

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Speaker 3: And the other thing, I imagine.

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Speaker 1: The twins life is full of whimsy. Yes, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: is sort of magical. Every day little silly things you do.

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Speaker 3: And I realized that Lucra and I and you know

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Speaker 3: when you tell it out loud and you just sound

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Speaker 3: like the lamest person in the world. Luca and I

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Speaker 3: have one where every night he gets into bed and

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Speaker 3: he says, have you hidden my eye mask? Because he

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Speaker 3: wears an eye mask? And what a ridiculous thing. Why

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Speaker 3: would I hide his eye mask? And we play this

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Speaker 3: whole thing where like I didn't hide your eye mask

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Speaker 3: and then you find it anyway.

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Speaker 1: That sounds hilarious, hilarious, No, no, no, But.

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Speaker 2: Because the people's whimsies are hard. But then I stepped up.

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Speaker 1: It gets funnier.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because then I started hiding it and it became

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Speaker 3: a little game, and I hide it every night and

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Speaker 3: then he can't find it, and then we have this

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Speaker 3: little playful thing. And it's like people think we're boring

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Speaker 3: because we have a baby, but here we are looking.

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Speaker 2: For an ear mask. Oh that's quite good, isn't it. Fun?

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Speaker 2: Vegetables a lot, I asked, you know what I'm saying

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Speaker 2: to them. You're having a hard day. You are on

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Speaker 2: your darling. It's gonna be okay.

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Speaker 1: I had a thing where I accidentally bought too many

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Speaker 1: packs of tiny snack sized sandwich bags, but like the

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Speaker 1: snack size, you know, the resealable ones. And my children

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Speaker 1: who don't live at home, always come home and like rifle,

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Speaker 1: they go shopping in the pantry and in the fridge

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Speaker 1: and they're always looking for things, and I'm always trying

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Speaker 1: to offload these tiny, little stupid sandwich bags that I've

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Speaker 1: got many packets off and then I want them. So

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Speaker 1: what I do is that I always hide them like

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Speaker 1: in their glove box. All that's fun, handbag, that's quite fun.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing that I was thinking that was whimsy.

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Speaker 1: Is my jeans today, which none of you have noticed.

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Speaker 2: I think you get all your wimsy out of your clothes.

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Speaker 1: Actually pretend track suit pants that look like jeanspitch.

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Speaker 3: Yes turning up, which can't be good for audio.

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Speaker 2: We all document this on the feed.

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Speaker 1: Is that whimsy putting on jeans is like a thing

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Speaker 1: that's not very whimsical, But I've made them whimsical because

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Speaker 1: they're actually secretly tracksuit pack.

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Speaker 3: The other whimsical thing we've been doing is I feel

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Speaker 3: like every time you know you've got Luna or I've

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Speaker 3: got Luna, is we teach her a new phrase that

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Speaker 3: she actually doesn't need. So she got home from the

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Speaker 3: other day gay rights. Someone had taught the nanny had

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Speaker 3: taught Luna gay rights, and we were all just having

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Speaker 3: a laugh about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just a bit silly, very silly. You know

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Speaker 2: what's whimsy? The budgies. The budgies are yes you a producer.

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Speaker 2: Ruth play the little prank on mea a while ago

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Speaker 2: where we were sitting in her office having an important

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Speaker 2: meeting about something serious, and then suddenly we noticed that

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Speaker 2: they were a little pretend Bude and.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was real. I could just see one

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Speaker 1: and I was like, is that real? On?

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Speaker 2: Like a pop plant hiding in one of MEA's coat hangers?

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Speaker 2: And the in joke is that, Mia? What's the en

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Speaker 2: joke about it?

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Speaker 1: It's something about it. I look at a camera and

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Speaker 1: talk to myself.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, they're very whimsy.

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Speaker 3: You might have heard about Ruby Frank, a woman who

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Speaker 3: abused her children in front of millions of people, but

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Speaker 3: what do we know about her husband? Let's start at

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Speaker 3: the beginning. Do you guys know much about this story?

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Speaker 1: I know nothing. It's an all or nothing story. I

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Speaker 1: know she's a YouTuber and an influencer and was while

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Speaker 1: she was you know, had this big channel, was secretly

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Speaker 1: abusing her children, and now she's in jail. That's yeah.

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Speaker 3: I had no context for when the story came out.

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Speaker 3: I'd never heard of her. So basically, in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 3: Ruby Frank, she was a mother of six living in Utah,

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Speaker 3: began a YouTube channel called eight Passengers so six Kids,

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Speaker 3: her and her husband Kevin. At its peak, the channel

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Speaker 3: had two point five million subscribers, and the content often

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Speaker 3: in sight into their home life. Her parenting style was

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Speaker 3: always very strict. For example, her two sons were play

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Speaker 3: fighting in one video, and she told them if they

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Speaker 3: kept doing it, they'd lose the privilege of eating dinner.

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Speaker 3: One of her daughters was cutting things in the house

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Speaker 3: and she threatened to cut off the head of her doll.

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Speaker 3: But things started to become more and more extreme over

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Speaker 3: the course of the channel.

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Speaker 1: This at the time when those family YouTubers and they

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Speaker 1: sort of documented their whole life. It's not so common anymore,

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Speaker 1: I don't think, but it was huge in the mid.

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Speaker 3: The kind of yeah, yeah, exactly in Utah because of

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Speaker 3: the Mormon element, there are these big families.

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Speaker 2: It feels like, not to want to make light of

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Speaker 2: this story, but that Utah really overrepresents in the influencer space.

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Speaker 2: It's like a lot of the traadwives from Utah. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the big families are from Utah. It

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Speaker 2: must have a high headcount of it does.

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Speaker 3: And physically it's a very beautiful face.

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Speaker 2: A set.

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Speaker 3: Things then became more extreme. So her older son, Chad,

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Speaker 3: speaking to the said that his mother had taken away

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Speaker 3: his bed for seven months after he played a prank

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Speaker 3: on his sibling, and since he'd been sleeping on a

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Speaker 3: bean bag, and in the video, Ruby Frank was seen laughing.

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Speaker 3: This then launched a petition flagging that there were signs

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Speaker 3: of abuse and neglect where they called on Child Protective

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Speaker 3: Services to investigate. That was from her followers. The channel

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Speaker 3: shut down, and then Ruby Frank kind of went off.

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Speaker 3: We didn't see so much of her kids anymore, but

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Speaker 3: she launched a parenting advice support program alongside this woman

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Speaker 3: named Jody Hildebrand. Then in August twenty twenty three, this

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Speaker 3: story broke out again because one of Frank's children, reportedly malnourished,

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Speaker 3: climbed out of Hildebrand's house and banged on the door

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Speaker 3: of a neighbor asking for food and water.

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Speaker 4: I just had a twelve year old boy so up

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Speaker 4: here at my front door asking for help, and he's

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Speaker 4: said he had just came from a neighbor's house. He's emaciated,

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Speaker 4: he's got tape around his leg.

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Speaker 3: Frank and this Hildebrand woman were arrested and four of

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Speaker 3: Frank's children were taken into care. The eldest two were

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Speaker 3: out of home by that point. Here's what we know

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Speaker 3: about what Frank was doing to her children. She forced

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Speaker 3: her twelve year old son to do hours of physical

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Speaker 3: tasks off and outside. It resulted in serious sunburn that blistered.

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Speaker 3: He was denied food and after attempting to run away,

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Speaker 3: his hands and feet were regularly bound. Similar punishments were

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Speaker 3: inflicted on her daughter. There are more horrific details that

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to outline here, but Frank was ultimately

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Speaker 3: charged with child abuse and will spend four to sixty

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Speaker 3: years behind bars, which I think it will be around thirty.

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Speaker 3: This has led to a lot of reflection and potential

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Speaker 3: law reform. When we round dad, where is Kevin? I

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Speaker 3: have often wondered this because he has evaded a lot

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Speaker 3: of scrutiny. They were separated by that point, and he

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Speaker 3: had not been living with Ruby Frank for about thirteen

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Speaker 3: months before this happened, and it is understood that the

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Speaker 3: abuse really stepped up in that time. He hadn't seen

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Speaker 3: the children, and he hadn't seen the children, but a

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Speaker 3: lot of the strict behaviors and also having the children

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Speaker 3: on a YouTube channel.

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Speaker 2: The YouTube channel involved him exactly right.

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Speaker 3: But over the weekend Kevin Frank spoke about his regrets

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Speaker 3: and he said that he is petitioning for a bill

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Speaker 3: whereby a child claims a percentage of money made off

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Speaker 3: their image, and also can demand as an adult that

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Speaker 3: the content made of them be removed.

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Speaker 1: You would assume that that was already the case, but

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Speaker 1: I guess it's just not in law.

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Speaker 2: No, it is in some countries. So this is part

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Speaker 2: of the whole reckoning around. You know, this kind of

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Speaker 2: influencing that involves children, and there are some countries where

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Speaker 2: ten percent of the income has to be put aside

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Speaker 2: in some kind of trust for a child, and they

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Speaker 2: want to try and pass a similar law in some

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Speaker 2: of the states in America, which is why this guy has.

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Speaker 3: Come out has come out. But Holly, I wondered when

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Speaker 3: I saw this a week conflating two issues here because

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Speaker 3: one is the YouTube element. But is this actually a

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Speaker 3: story about vologging or is this a story about something

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Speaker 3: else entirely.

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Speaker 2: I think this story gets misrepresented a lot because I'm

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Speaker 2: probably typical of some out louders who aren't massively familiar

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Speaker 2: with the Franks in that I've seen these headlines around

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Speaker 2: a lot, and it's been very much cautionary tale about

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Speaker 2: putting your children online, toxic side of influencing and parent influencers.

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Speaker 2: But what we're talking about here some of the abuse

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Speaker 2: that you outlined before, the stuff that Ruby Frank actually

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Speaker 2: got arrested for and is serving a significant jail term for,

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Speaker 2: as she absolutely should. That was not on the internet.

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Speaker 2: That is child abuse of the highest order. And it's

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Speaker 2: not like she was putting that upon YouTube. There is

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Speaker 2: a world of difference between the kind of stuff that

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Speaker 2: she was famous for, and I think we should be

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Speaker 2: really clear about. One of the reasons why this, I

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Speaker 2: think is so shocking in inverted commons to people is

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Speaker 2: that Ruby Frank, certainly at the time of her fame,

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Speaker 2: she doesn't look like an abusive parent in inverted commerce.

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Speaker 2: Obviously I'm not saying that, but that's the world's perceptions.

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Speaker 2: She's very well roomed, white lady with the nice bob

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Speaker 2: and the beautiful home and all the beautiful children, and

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Speaker 2: there's that aspirational element that people buy into. But she

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Speaker 2: was known, as you said, Jesse, for being quite strict.

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Speaker 2: But there is a world of difference between the kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff she was putting up on YouTube, which was

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Speaker 2: stuff like my daughter forgot her lunch today, the teacher

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Speaker 2: called me, But I'm gonna let her go hungry to

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Speaker 2: teach her a lesson let them. Yep, that's a let them.

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Speaker 2: And also some people would say that's you know, that's

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Speaker 2: good parenting, like resilience, content, etc. There is an ocean

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Speaker 2: of difference between that and keeping your child restrained in

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Speaker 2: a secret room in your house. And I think that

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Speaker 2: in a way, the headlines and the beautiful blonde lady

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Speaker 2: and the parent influencers finger wagging is like almost trying

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Speaker 2: to convince people that that's what was happening and we

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Speaker 2: were all born into it. But they're two different things.

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 3: Do you think this has much to do with YouTube

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Speaker 3: and sharing images of your children online? Because it's almost

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Speaker 3: like people are trying to suggest see the type of

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Speaker 3: people that profit off their children. I wonder if there's an.

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Speaker 1: Element about I wonder if you guys are feeling defensive

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Speaker 1: because you've profited off your children in some of your content. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm joking, but to me, I didn't read it like that.

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Speaker 1: To me, I read it that it was more it's

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Speaker 1: all lies, and we suspected that it was all lies.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I think there's glee, which is it

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Speaker 1: all looks so, whether it's ballerin a farm or any

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Speaker 1: of the other influencers Narah Smith. It all looks so

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Speaker 1: picture perfect, but underneath the surface there's terrible, dark things happening,

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Speaker 1: and it's like there's a glee, which is we knew

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Speaker 1: it couldn't be as good as it looked.

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Speaker 3: I think it's also almost a true crime element of

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Speaker 3: there were science, so it's the online detective.

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Speaker 1: The idea that it was happening under everyone's none.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because there were the sort of little things which,

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Speaker 3: as you say, taken out of context, don't look you

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Speaker 3: kind of go, oh, that's a bit harsh, but it's

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Speaker 3: not a crime. But I worry that it will embolden

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Speaker 3: the commenters and embolden the kind of online community that

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Speaker 3: we all know can be. I remember sharing an image

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Speaker 3: of Luna when she was a few months old and

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Speaker 3: a comment basically suggesting that it was my fault she

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Speaker 3: was so little because I wasn't feeding her properly. And

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Speaker 3: this is the thing about like people watching any of

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Speaker 3: your parenting, is that they're going to have an opinion

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 1: But aren't we learning that from this generation of kids

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Speaker 1: who were put on the internet by their parents, And

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Speaker 1: I should say none of us knew what we were doing.

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Speaker 1: It just so happened that my kids escaped that era.

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Speaker 1: Had they been born a few years later, or some

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Speaker 1: of them a few years earlier, I would have done

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Speaker 1: the same thing. Because it's like, if you're someone who

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Speaker 1: lives online and part of the content that you make

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Speaker 1: and monetize is about your life, you can't just pretend

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Speaker 1: you don't have children. So I get that, but I

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Speaker 1: think that what we're seeing now is that those children

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Speaker 1: are old enough to go, hey, you know that thing

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Speaker 1: that wasn't good for us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But I reckon that we are unable to see

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Speaker 3: as a spectrum. We have become so black and white

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Speaker 3: about sharing an image of a child online that it's

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Speaker 3: like you share an image and you're traumatizing them for life.

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Speaker 3: There is a spectrum where it's like sharing a family photograph,

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Speaker 3: child appears in video, making your children work full time

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Speaker 3: for your content, and filming them at their worst moments

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Speaker 3: when they're crying or tantruming or whatever, like, they are

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Speaker 3: totally different things, and we seem to not understand that

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Speaker 3: it's yeah, that it's.

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Speaker 2: Not the same. Ruby Frank's daughter, who has written a

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Speaker 2: memoir and who is also talking in this push to

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Speaker 2: get this bill passed in Utah, which her dad is too,

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Speaker 2: is very vocal about the fact that she feels very exploited,

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Speaker 2: and she said, you know, she was her mum would

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Speaker 2: film her bras shopping and put that online. She'd put

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Speaker 2: all kinds of very sensitive teenage stuff up there. And

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Speaker 2: I think, without questioning me or you're right, that there

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Speaker 2: is a generation who've grown up and said hey, But

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Speaker 2: as Jesse says, I don't think that's the same as

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Speaker 2: somebody who just sometimes puts a bitture of them. Care no,

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Speaker 2: but we are. I mean, you're right. But to your

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Speaker 2: barber earlier on which is fair enough about you know,

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Speaker 2: do you feel defensive? I think I probably do feel defensive.

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Speaker 2: Not in any way do I feel like I want

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Speaker 2: to defend a person like Ruby Frank who's abusing her

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Speaker 2: children in the worst way possible. But I do want

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Speaker 2: to be a little bit defensive about the idea that

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Speaker 2: ever involving your children in online content is necessarily entirely negative.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that's true. I think it feeds into

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons why the wear of the dad's

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Speaker 2: question is interesting, which is the people who are consuming

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Speaker 2: very often a lot of parenting content on the internet,

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Speaker 2: or women they're looking at other women doing it. And

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Speaker 2: although it very often starts off with a I feel seen,

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Speaker 2: thank god, my house is dirty like your houses. My

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Speaker 2: kid won't eat vegetables like your kid won't eat vegetables,

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Speaker 2: it also always morphs into a big stream of judgment,

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Speaker 2: big stream of like, well, you know that child's top

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Speaker 2: does look a bit dirty, and you're not feeding your

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Speaker 2: child probably Jesse and whatever. I think that that's very

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Speaker 2: toxic for the parent involved, and we know that if

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Speaker 2: the child is exposed to that, that's terrible. But I

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Speaker 2: don't think that everybody who's doing that on the internet

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Speaker 2: isn't considering the outcome.

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Speaker 1: No, and of course many of them are. You would

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Speaker 1: hope that this is about apple kind of situation. But

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Speaker 1: I think what's interesting also is part of this bill

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Speaker 1: is that when the children become adults, they can request

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Speaker 1: and all that content about them is taken down. And

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Speaker 1: what I think that it speaks to is when we

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Speaker 1: have children, we feel that their experiences are our experiences,

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Speaker 1: and at what point do they become their own experiences?

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Speaker 1: Like you exactly, you watch people talk about a child's

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Speaker 1: medical condition or their behavior and it's all through the

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Speaker 1: lens of how it affects that person as a mother,

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Speaker 1: which I completely understand. But I think what we're becoming

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Speaker 1: more aware now is that that person didn't necessarily consent

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Speaker 1: to that. I don't mean, you know, when they're in

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Speaker 1: a their photos on the internet, or they're in a

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Speaker 1: little bit of sponsored content. I more mean that kind

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Speaker 1: of vlogging turning your life into a reality show.

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Speaker 3: It's just interesting to me how this conversation has almost

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Speaker 3: totally excluded fathers like as participants in their children's lives.

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Speaker 3: And I understand it to a degree because it is

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Speaker 3: women who post a lot of this content and women

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Speaker 3: follow women like that's totally the point. But I also

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Speaker 3: think that we understand women to be in charge of

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Speaker 3: parenting decisions, and so I wonder if this were reversed,

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Speaker 3: it because of our children's will Exactly like, if a

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Speaker 3: child is online, let's assume, unless it's Grimes and Elon Musk,

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Speaker 3: let's assume that both parents have consented to that. But

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Speaker 3: the judgment is always towards the mother, because it's your

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Speaker 3: job to kicks.

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Speaker 1: I think, I mean, I know what you're saying. I

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Speaker 1: think that's slightly disingenuous in that there is in most

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Speaker 1: households and most families there's divide and conquers. So the

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Speaker 1: Internet and social media and knowing about all of that

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Speaker 1: is seen as moreover something that women generally know a

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Speaker 1: lot more about. You know, men on social media tend

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Speaker 1: to either not be on it or their lurkers men

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Speaker 1: rarely post.

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I think that that's a decision that you make and

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Speaker 3: if you're going to the bottom line of the family

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Speaker 3: like this man, Look, Kevin, there is no you know,

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Speaker 3: there's evidence that he had absolutely nothing to do with

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Speaker 3: this Kevin Frank in terms.

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Speaker 2: Of the abuse of the abuse. Yeah, but he was

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Speaker 2: he was very involved in the vlogging.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And he's come out and obviously said that

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Speaker 3: he has regrets. But I just note that at no

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Speaker 3: point did everyone kind of go He was also putting

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Speaker 3: a camera in front of their face and also endorsing

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Speaker 3: the parenting style that they were both practicing.

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Speaker 2: And there are a lot of Yeah, and there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of dad influences now too. They have a

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Speaker 2: lot of female followers. I think this is the modern

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Speaker 2: example of the stage parent, right, And there have always

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Speaker 2: been extreme versions of stage parenting that have veered towards

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Speaker 2: pushing your kid really hard exploitation and pay the bills

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Speaker 2: for the family exploitation, working them over time. This is

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Speaker 2: like the dark side of that.

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Speaker 1: After the break, why everyone is feeling a bit aspirational,

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Speaker 1: including Megan Michael.

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Speaker 2: It might sound like I'm in his studio in Inner

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Speaker 2: Sydney at the moment, but mentally I am replying on

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Speaker 2: a taste for sun loungers Mui.

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Speaker 3: I haven't started watching White Lotus yet, so is it

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Speaker 3: very kind of pictureque?

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Speaker 2: Well, you've seen the other two, right, Yeah? So the

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Speaker 2: first White Lotus was a set in Hawaii at the

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Speaker 2: Four Seasons of Maui. The second one was set at

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Speaker 2: another Four Seasons in Sicily in Italy. This one is

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Speaker 2: actually filmed at three different resorts in Thailand, one of

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Speaker 2: which is the Four Seasons Samui and yes.

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Speaker 3: I feel like a holiday to be beautiful.

431
00:20:46,821 --> 00:20:49,181
Speaker 2: Of course, as soon as the first episode of season

432
00:20:49,182 --> 00:20:52,461
Speaker 2: three dropped last week, google search is for where the

433
00:20:52,502 --> 00:20:53,702
Speaker 2: hell is that filmed?

434
00:20:53,861 --> 00:20:56,462
Speaker 1: And can I go there? Skyrocketed, And the truth of

435
00:20:56,502 --> 00:20:58,661
Speaker 1: it is it's second only to why the hell did

436
00:20:58,702 --> 00:21:02,101
Speaker 1: they change the theme music? Which was iconic. But we

437
00:21:02,141 --> 00:21:02,621
Speaker 1: will move on.

438
00:21:02,742 --> 00:21:04,701
Speaker 2: We will move on. We will learn to move on

439
00:21:04,861 --> 00:21:08,141
Speaker 2: and grow and change. The hotels now in the white

440
00:21:08,182 --> 00:21:11,581
Speaker 2: Lotus world actually by into that. You can buy Whiteladus packages,

441
00:21:11,702 --> 00:21:14,101
Speaker 2: you can get deals, you can go online at the

442
00:21:14,101 --> 00:21:17,061
Speaker 2: moment and you can buy a white Loadus fluffy white robe.

443
00:21:17,381 --> 00:21:21,141
Speaker 2: You can buy white Loaders fluffy slippers. There are Instagram

444
00:21:21,222 --> 00:21:24,022
Speaker 2: accounts with all the shoppable links to all the clothes

445
00:21:24,061 --> 00:21:26,542
Speaker 2: the resort war that the women wear on the show,

446
00:21:27,182 --> 00:21:30,061
Speaker 2: and everything in white Loadus land, it seems now is shoppable,

447
00:21:30,061 --> 00:21:33,502
Speaker 2: which is not unusual because a lot of TV has

448
00:21:33,542 --> 00:21:37,702
Speaker 2: gone that way. You can buy a appropriately named skinny

449
00:21:37,742 --> 00:21:41,022
Speaker 2: water bottle from Emily in Paris. You can buy a

450
00:21:41,101 --> 00:21:44,141
Speaker 2: Stranger Things motorbike helmet. You can buy all that stuff, which.

451
00:21:44,061 --> 00:21:47,022
Speaker 3: We were discussing just last week that Netflix is about

452
00:21:47,061 --> 00:21:47,981
Speaker 3: to get in on this.

453
00:21:48,141 --> 00:21:52,341
Speaker 2: Big time with with Love Megan, which widely assumed is

454
00:21:52,381 --> 00:21:53,782
Speaker 2: that you're going to be able to buy a lot

455
00:21:53,821 --> 00:21:56,022
Speaker 2: of the things that are in that show. But I

456
00:21:56,061 --> 00:21:58,581
Speaker 2: have a question specifically about the white load of thing,

457
00:21:58,621 --> 00:22:01,701
Speaker 2: but broadly about aspiration, because if you watched any of

458
00:22:01,742 --> 00:22:04,622
Speaker 2: the white loaduses, particularly the first one, but any of them,

459
00:22:05,022 --> 00:22:08,182
Speaker 2: you'll know that actually, although it's very lovely to look at,

460
00:22:08,621 --> 00:22:12,462
Speaker 2: it is actually a high level social satire about how

461
00:22:12,581 --> 00:22:16,262
Speaker 2: rich people going to fancy resorts around the world are

462
00:22:16,302 --> 00:22:19,861
Speaker 2: actually very problematic. It gives both perspectives to the people

463
00:22:19,861 --> 00:22:21,542
Speaker 2: who work there and the people who stay there. And

464
00:22:21,621 --> 00:22:25,502
Speaker 2: very often the people who work there, I hate truly

465
00:22:25,581 --> 00:22:28,942
Speaker 2: awful people who are staying there. Sometimes there's murder involved.

466
00:22:29,141 --> 00:22:30,661
Speaker 2: And in the first one there was a lot of

467
00:22:30,702 --> 00:22:34,542
Speaker 2: commentary about the impact on Indigenous communities. There's always a

468
00:22:34,581 --> 00:22:37,981
Speaker 2: lot of social commentary in those shows, and I find

469
00:22:38,022 --> 00:22:42,102
Speaker 2: it really interesting that we love all that and then

470
00:22:42,141 --> 00:22:43,981
Speaker 2: we go, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I just want to

471
00:22:43,982 --> 00:22:45,861
Speaker 2: go there. This spar looks amazing. Where can I book?

472
00:22:45,982 --> 00:22:50,222
Speaker 2: It's like our aspiration completely overrides the context.

473
00:22:50,381 --> 00:22:52,302
Speaker 3: We want their holiday, but we don't want to be.

474
00:22:52,381 --> 00:22:54,862
Speaker 2: Them, but we will be them when we're on their holiday.

475
00:22:54,901 --> 00:22:59,262
Speaker 3: Oh no, because we don't see ourselves as the leisure class.

476
00:22:59,502 --> 00:23:01,821
Speaker 3: We do not see ourselves as that, And in fact

477
00:23:02,341 --> 00:23:05,981
Speaker 3: there's this contrast between even like I keep thinking about

478
00:23:06,022 --> 00:23:08,901
Speaker 3: the Kim Kardashian of the world, right keeping up with

479
00:23:08,942 --> 00:23:11,782
Speaker 3: the Kardashian ended. I think last year I can't even tell.

480
00:23:11,702 --> 00:23:14,421
Speaker 2: Them it's on again against It's not called keeping up

481
00:23:14,422 --> 00:23:16,981
Speaker 2: the it's just called the Kardashians on at the.

482
00:23:16,982 --> 00:23:21,581
Speaker 3: Moment, totally fizzled out in terms of interest.

483
00:23:21,262 --> 00:23:23,461
Speaker 1: Cultural in terms of cultural.

484
00:23:23,182 --> 00:23:26,101
Speaker 3: Relevance, it has totally fizzled out because I think there's

485
00:23:26,141 --> 00:23:29,061
Speaker 3: something very on the nose about the Kardashians right now,

486
00:23:29,222 --> 00:23:34,181
Speaker 3: the conspicuous consumption of it, that luxury goods. I don't

487
00:23:34,302 --> 00:23:37,742
Speaker 3: think that that's what we aspire to anymore, and there's

488
00:23:37,782 --> 00:23:40,542
Speaker 3: a real kind of revolt against it.

489
00:23:40,581 --> 00:23:42,982
Speaker 2: I don't think you're right. I wish you were right

490
00:23:43,022 --> 00:23:44,741
Speaker 2: about that, But I think if you look at the

491
00:23:44,782 --> 00:23:46,742
Speaker 2: culture in America at the moment, there is a lot

492
00:23:46,782 --> 00:23:49,622
Speaker 2: of aspiration towards extreme wealth. There's a lot of it.

493
00:23:49,742 --> 00:23:52,101
Speaker 3: I think the ratings of the Kardashians tell us something.

494
00:23:52,141 --> 00:23:55,901
Speaker 3: I think the fact that they are not cool. Like

495
00:23:55,942 --> 00:23:57,821
Speaker 3: if someone told you that they were a massive fan

496
00:23:57,821 --> 00:23:59,821
Speaker 3: of Kim Kardashian, you'd be very confused.

497
00:23:59,901 --> 00:24:00,101
Speaker 6: Yeah.

498
00:24:00,101 --> 00:24:02,901
Speaker 2: But also that show, I think it's just morphed because

499
00:24:02,982 --> 00:24:05,381
Speaker 2: the Kardashians has died for lots of reasons, one of

500
00:24:05,422 --> 00:24:07,861
Speaker 2: which is that you're now expected to watch like with

501
00:24:07,982 --> 00:24:11,141
Speaker 2: baited breath to see Kim Kardashian go to that fashion

502
00:24:11,182 --> 00:24:13,422
Speaker 2: show that you've already seen her go to fifty five

503
00:24:13,462 --> 00:24:16,021
Speaker 2: times on your socials by then. And I think there

504
00:24:16,101 --> 00:24:18,142
Speaker 2: is some truth to the aspirational thing, but I think

505
00:24:18,182 --> 00:24:21,102
Speaker 2: it's kind of just shifted a bit because now it

506
00:24:21,182 --> 00:24:23,581
Speaker 2: is this we want to buy all the things that

507
00:24:23,621 --> 00:24:26,581
Speaker 2: all the famous people have. One of the biggest obviously

508
00:24:26,782 --> 00:24:28,941
Speaker 2: shows on YouTube is about giving away lots of money,

509
00:24:28,942 --> 00:24:32,022
Speaker 2: making people into millionaires. Everybody wants that, Like, I don't

510
00:24:32,061 --> 00:24:37,061
Speaker 2: think the hunger for money status things has gone anywhere.

511
00:24:37,702 --> 00:24:39,782
Speaker 2: In fact, I think that something like the White Lotus

512
00:24:39,782 --> 00:24:41,502
Speaker 2: and how we kind of love to be in on

513
00:24:41,542 --> 00:24:43,422
Speaker 2: the joke of laughing at the rich people, but really

514
00:24:43,462 --> 00:24:45,742
Speaker 2: we just want to be on their holiday kind of

515
00:24:45,782 --> 00:24:46,821
Speaker 2: says that we haven't moved on.

516
00:24:46,861 --> 00:24:49,021
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think it's as complicated as that.

517
00:24:49,101 --> 00:24:51,141
Speaker 1: I think it's just like that looks like a really

518
00:24:51,222 --> 00:24:54,262
Speaker 1: nice place to go and have a massage, or to

519
00:24:54,381 --> 00:24:57,661
Speaker 1: go and have a swim, hopefully without any bodies in

520
00:24:57,702 --> 00:25:01,941
Speaker 1: the pool. But that idea of there's no longer a

521
00:25:01,982 --> 00:25:05,542
Speaker 1: barrier between what I see and I want to buy it,

522
00:25:05,621 --> 00:25:09,502
Speaker 1: and that's what influencer culture is right because it's affiliate.

523
00:25:09,861 --> 00:25:12,542
Speaker 1: I can just click on whatever this influencer is wearing,

524
00:25:12,661 --> 00:25:15,821
Speaker 1: what products they're using. This is just an extension of that,

525
00:25:15,861 --> 00:25:18,341
Speaker 1: which is why Netflix is actually a really logical partner

526
00:25:18,341 --> 00:25:21,542
Speaker 1: for Megan Markle in terms of you watch it and

527
00:25:21,581 --> 00:25:22,982
Speaker 1: then you click straight away.

528
00:25:23,182 --> 00:25:26,302
Speaker 3: You say that there's no barrier. But the massive barrier

529
00:25:26,462 --> 00:25:29,182
Speaker 3: that exists in a way that it didn't even ten

530
00:25:29,262 --> 00:25:31,741
Speaker 3: years ago is the cost of living adress, and I

531
00:25:31,742 --> 00:25:34,982
Speaker 3: think that that is kind of the ghost haunting all

532
00:25:34,982 --> 00:25:35,181
Speaker 3: of this.

533
00:25:35,381 --> 00:25:37,461
Speaker 1: But that's the whole point. So that you can't go

534
00:25:37,742 --> 00:25:40,141
Speaker 1: to the White Lotus, you can't go to Thailand, but

535
00:25:40,182 --> 00:25:42,341
Speaker 1: I can buy a little robe, or I can buy

536
00:25:42,381 --> 00:25:45,621
Speaker 1: that little kaftan that she's wearing all the sandals, or

537
00:25:45,661 --> 00:25:46,382
Speaker 1: a scented can.

538
00:25:46,581 --> 00:25:49,222
Speaker 3: So I reckon that the aspiration has morphed, and I

539
00:25:49,302 --> 00:25:51,981
Speaker 3: think it's smaller, Like I do think that there's a

540
00:25:52,061 --> 00:25:55,101
Speaker 3: smaller world, Like I'm thinking about the tradwife because that

541
00:25:55,502 --> 00:25:59,542
Speaker 3: has become very aspirational, but that's cooking your own sourdough,

542
00:25:59,742 --> 00:26:03,782
Speaker 3: Like there's also something that is doable. Of course, they're all.

543
00:26:03,621 --> 00:26:06,102
Speaker 1: Like that's about the aspiration of time, having a lot

544
00:26:06,101 --> 00:26:09,222
Speaker 1: of time, exactly. And there's something called the Lipstick index

545
00:26:09,262 --> 00:26:11,341
Speaker 1: or the Maine index, which is when the cost of

546
00:26:11,381 --> 00:26:13,942
Speaker 1: living is high and people are struggling or there's a recession,

547
00:26:14,381 --> 00:26:17,022
Speaker 1: the sales of small luxury goods will go up. So

548
00:26:17,101 --> 00:26:20,222
Speaker 1: lipsticks used to be magazines, little things that you can buy.

549
00:26:20,542 --> 00:26:23,661
Speaker 1: And that's why it's no accident that tmu's slogan is

550
00:26:23,702 --> 00:26:26,782
Speaker 1: shopped like a billionaire without spending much money. And it's

551
00:26:26,782 --> 00:26:30,662
Speaker 1: the same reason why the big designer houses like Chanelle

552
00:26:30,821 --> 00:26:35,302
Speaker 1: or Duck Chaange, Gabana, they have fragrance businesses because ninety

553
00:26:35,341 --> 00:26:37,581
Speaker 1: nine percent of people could never buy anything from Chanel,

554
00:26:37,621 --> 00:26:40,421
Speaker 1: but they can afford a fragrance. So this idea of

555
00:26:40,422 --> 00:26:42,142
Speaker 1: being able to buy a little bit of jam from

556
00:26:42,141 --> 00:26:44,741
Speaker 1: Megan Markle, of being able to buy a white Loatus candle,

557
00:26:45,222 --> 00:26:47,661
Speaker 1: or you know, in succession, it was about the stealth wealth.

558
00:26:47,901 --> 00:26:50,621
Speaker 1: I can buy a little bit of that lifestyle that

559
00:26:50,621 --> 00:26:51,582
Speaker 1: I could never afford.

560
00:26:51,742 --> 00:26:53,902
Speaker 2: It's interesting because and I was listening to you talk

561
00:26:53,901 --> 00:26:56,662
Speaker 2: about Megan last week, of course because I was off

562
00:26:56,702 --> 00:26:58,741
Speaker 2: the show, but I was like, oh my god, what

563
00:26:58,742 --> 00:26:59,262
Speaker 2: did you mean?

564
00:26:59,341 --> 00:27:02,821
Speaker 1: Can we just break to ask what you thought about her? Announcement.

565
00:27:03,022 --> 00:27:06,341
Speaker 2: I was very excited about the announcement. I think that

566
00:27:06,462 --> 00:27:09,981
Speaker 2: a lot of the nitpicking about the copyright stuff is

567
00:27:10,182 --> 00:27:15,222
Speaker 2: typical Meghan bashing, but also just astounding that they continue

568
00:27:15,262 --> 00:27:19,221
Speaker 2: to apparently keep kicking such own goals. But on Meghan World,

569
00:27:19,901 --> 00:27:21,821
Speaker 2: you said on that on the show last week, and

570
00:27:21,861 --> 00:27:24,142
Speaker 2: you're very right that the esthetic. I know I say

571
00:27:24,182 --> 00:27:26,461
Speaker 2: it wrong, but I can't help it. Just just go

572
00:27:26,542 --> 00:27:30,022
Speaker 2: with me, just becol people like you that the esthetic

573
00:27:30,262 --> 00:27:33,262
Speaker 2: that Meghan Michael is flogging or it was apparently going

574
00:27:33,302 --> 00:27:35,902
Speaker 2: to be flogging on with Love Meghan and with as

575
00:27:35,942 --> 00:27:39,621
Speaker 2: ever feels a bit dated now. She posted a vision board.

576
00:27:39,661 --> 00:27:42,262
Speaker 2: Speaking of aspiration, she posted a vision board this week,

577
00:27:42,302 --> 00:27:44,061
Speaker 2: and I'm just so happy she's back on Instagram. But

578
00:27:44,061 --> 00:27:47,102
Speaker 2: I may have already say that, I'm sorry, I'll stop talking.

579
00:27:47,141 --> 00:27:48,542
Speaker 1: You'll never get boring.

580
00:27:48,661 --> 00:27:51,022
Speaker 2: One of the things that she posted this week is

581
00:27:51,101 --> 00:27:54,181
Speaker 2: her vision board for we assume for with Love Meghan, right,

582
00:27:54,702 --> 00:27:57,621
Speaker 2: and it's just a whole lot of it is just

583
00:27:57,661 --> 00:27:59,101
Speaker 2: a whole lot of Easter eggs. So there are a

584
00:27:59,141 --> 00:28:02,022
Speaker 2: lot of literal memes or what memes used to be

585
00:28:02,901 --> 00:28:06,341
Speaker 2: from her tig days of like these kind of nafts.

586
00:28:06,061 --> 00:28:08,141
Speaker 3: Like you can't please everyone, You're not a Jarrevan.

587
00:28:08,302 --> 00:28:10,822
Speaker 2: That's all exactly that kind of stuff with a cursive

588
00:28:10,942 --> 00:28:13,701
Speaker 2: font and then a little tig thing she like, it's

589
00:28:13,742 --> 00:28:16,782
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen. But I think it's back. This is my point,

590
00:28:16,901 --> 00:28:19,542
Speaker 2: right because also on the corner of that vision board,

591
00:28:19,542 --> 00:28:22,462
Speaker 2: because don't think I haven't seen it many times, what

592
00:28:22,621 --> 00:28:24,341
Speaker 2: else is on it? There's a flat lay or what

593
00:28:24,742 --> 00:28:30,341
Speaker 2: else is so a pancake with a face made from

594
00:28:30,341 --> 00:28:33,382
Speaker 2: bacon and bananas. This is very exciting. There are fabrics,

595
00:28:33,422 --> 00:28:36,581
Speaker 2: watches so whimsical that are definitely not from clothes because

596
00:28:36,621 --> 00:28:38,741
Speaker 2: she's not allowed to sell those allowed to sell clothes

597
00:28:38,822 --> 00:28:42,342
Speaker 2: as per copyrights. There's a very cute illustration of her

598
00:28:42,542 --> 00:28:44,902
Speaker 2: and her man friend Harry and English coats. There's a

599
00:28:44,982 --> 00:28:47,382
Speaker 2: flat lay of a lot of what are presumably are

600
00:28:47,382 --> 00:28:50,022
Speaker 2: going to be the recipes from the show. They could

601
00:28:50,142 --> 00:28:52,982
Speaker 2: be from the whole pantry, from the app, the Bell

602
00:28:53,022 --> 00:28:54,181
Speaker 2: Gibson app that we've.

603
00:28:54,062 --> 00:28:57,462
Speaker 1: All just seen, yes again around that time.

604
00:28:57,582 --> 00:29:01,941
Speaker 2: So beautiful, looking, healthy, gorgeous. I mean, there's only so

605
00:29:02,022 --> 00:29:04,941
Speaker 2: many ways to food style, right, but they look very

606
00:29:05,022 --> 00:29:07,542
Speaker 2: much of the time, and I just think it's back.

607
00:29:07,702 --> 00:29:09,502
Speaker 2: I think that level of aspiration, and probably for a

608
00:29:09,582 --> 00:29:11,142
Speaker 2: lot of the reasons that you two were just discussing,

609
00:29:11,262 --> 00:29:13,862
Speaker 2: like a bit of accessible joy, a little bit of

610
00:29:14,142 --> 00:29:16,342
Speaker 2: trying to hold onto a portion of control in an

611
00:29:16,422 --> 00:29:17,382
Speaker 2: uncontrollable world.

612
00:29:17,742 --> 00:29:19,622
Speaker 1: Stewart two point zero that that kind of.

613
00:29:20,222 --> 00:29:23,421
Speaker 2: Domestic aspiration as well, as you know, the white Lotus

614
00:29:23,502 --> 00:29:26,222
Speaker 2: level is kind of back in fashion. Is it whimsy?

615
00:29:26,462 --> 00:29:28,782
Speaker 1: Because you talk about the things that you'll be able

616
00:29:28,822 --> 00:29:30,701
Speaker 1: to buy? I assume you probably won't be able to

617
00:29:30,702 --> 00:29:33,142
Speaker 1: buy the ice cubes with the tiny little flowers.

618
00:29:32,782 --> 00:29:35,662
Speaker 2: But anyone can make that tis isn't it. You can

619
00:29:35,742 --> 00:29:38,462
Speaker 2: go out in your street, steal.

620
00:29:38,222 --> 00:29:40,622
Speaker 1: Some flowers from someone else's guarded.

621
00:29:40,302 --> 00:29:42,502
Speaker 2: Forage and put them in some water, and I will

622
00:29:42,582 --> 00:29:42,902
Speaker 2: be free.

623
00:29:43,022 --> 00:29:45,622
Speaker 3: My neighbor has a sign saying do not steal my hydrangers.

624
00:29:45,742 --> 00:29:46,421
Speaker 3: I've thought about it.

625
00:29:47,342 --> 00:29:48,782
Speaker 2: She's like, I know what you want to do with

626
00:29:48,822 --> 00:29:50,782
Speaker 2: these pedals. I have one more question though, for me,

627
00:29:50,862 --> 00:29:54,222
Speaker 2: a business brain. Back to the white lotus right, there

628
00:29:54,262 --> 00:29:57,302
Speaker 2: would have been a time where an amazing brand like

629
00:29:57,382 --> 00:30:00,222
Speaker 2: The Four Seasons would not want to be associated with

630
00:30:00,342 --> 00:30:04,582
Speaker 2: a show where their staff were depicted taking drugs, sex,

631
00:30:04,982 --> 00:30:10,102
Speaker 2: beating up people, getting murdered, where a fancy brand would

632
00:30:10,102 --> 00:30:12,941
Speaker 2: have been like not near my brand, please. But the

633
00:30:13,022 --> 00:30:15,862
Speaker 2: four seasons, obviously after the success of these shows, are

634
00:30:15,942 --> 00:30:19,182
Speaker 2: leaning in I'm going, fine, we'll go with it. Very

635
00:30:19,222 --> 00:30:21,022
Speaker 2: savvy marketing, but a bit of a shift.

636
00:30:21,542 --> 00:30:24,142
Speaker 1: Not really when you think of that, these are basically

637
00:30:24,302 --> 00:30:26,822
Speaker 1: like infomercials because the whole point of the show is

638
00:30:26,942 --> 00:30:29,661
Speaker 1: to show when we check the plot out, it's just

639
00:30:30,022 --> 00:30:33,421
Speaker 1: an infomercial. Turn off the volume, and it's just looks

640
00:30:33,782 --> 00:30:36,782
Speaker 1: like a fantastic ad for you please find the murder,

641
00:30:36,902 --> 00:30:39,421
Speaker 1: which are absolutely sold out. And I think the other

642
00:30:39,502 --> 00:30:43,102
Speaker 1: thing about why everything's shoppable is that it's really expensive

643
00:30:43,222 --> 00:30:46,942
Speaker 1: to make TV and film and there are so many

644
00:30:47,062 --> 00:30:50,142
Speaker 1: challenges and by doing that, not only is it an

645
00:30:50,222 --> 00:30:53,782
Speaker 1: extra revenue stream for the creators and there's money to

646
00:30:53,862 --> 00:30:57,542
Speaker 1: be made, but then there's also product placement. And apparently

647
00:30:57,622 --> 00:30:59,142
Speaker 1: that I was reading that the White Lotus they were

648
00:30:59,182 --> 00:31:00,902
Speaker 1: talking about season four was going to be in Norway,

649
00:31:01,062 --> 00:31:03,702
Speaker 1: and that's just fallen through because one of the things

650
00:31:03,742 --> 00:31:07,822
Speaker 1: that they demand from the countries is massive tax breaks

651
00:31:07,902 --> 00:31:10,902
Speaker 1: and grants and all of those things, because those are

652
00:31:10,942 --> 00:31:12,782
Speaker 1: expensive shows to make and you need all the help

653
00:31:12,782 --> 00:31:13,142
Speaker 1: that you can.

654
00:31:13,142 --> 00:31:17,981
Speaker 3: Get in case he missed it. Last Thursday, billionaire Clive Palmer,

655
00:31:18,182 --> 00:31:21,502
Speaker 3: former head of the United Australia Party, launched a brand

656
00:31:21,622 --> 00:31:23,622
Speaker 3: new political party. Did you guys say this?

657
00:31:24,062 --> 00:31:27,661
Speaker 2: I did. I saw the hats, shoppable shoppable hats.

658
00:31:28,142 --> 00:31:30,342
Speaker 1: I did not know that Clive Palmer was still a thing.

659
00:31:30,542 --> 00:31:35,422
Speaker 3: Okay, So it is called trump Et of Patriots.

660
00:31:35,462 --> 00:31:40,302
Speaker 1: Trump Trumpet, Trumpety Trumpet the the oh did there? Yes?

661
00:31:40,422 --> 00:31:41,221
Speaker 3: Can you see what he did?

662
00:31:41,302 --> 00:31:41,941
Speaker 1: What a genius?

663
00:31:42,142 --> 00:31:42,342
Speaker 4: Yeah?

664
00:31:42,862 --> 00:31:46,701
Speaker 3: It promises to make Australia.

665
00:31:46,742 --> 00:31:50,502
Speaker 1: Trump again, great gaat again, My goodness.

666
00:31:50,542 --> 00:31:53,902
Speaker 3: Sorry, he wants to drain the swamp of Canberra. What

667
00:31:54,022 --> 00:31:56,701
Speaker 3: was his last party called United Australia. He's had a

668
00:31:56,742 --> 00:31:57,422
Speaker 3: few now.

669
00:31:57,422 --> 00:31:59,502
Speaker 1: It's like, we're not even going to pretend to United Australia.

670
00:31:59,542 --> 00:32:02,421
Speaker 1: Were Actually that's going to lean in to dividing every country.

671
00:32:02,542 --> 00:32:05,542
Speaker 3: What actually happened is that he lost a high court

672
00:32:05,582 --> 00:32:08,502
Speaker 3: bid to reregister United Australia. So I needed a new net. Okay,

673
00:32:08,622 --> 00:32:11,622
Speaker 3: bitlight megants who.

674
00:32:11,542 --> 00:32:14,501
Speaker 1: He's calling it the as I'm quite far.

675
00:32:15,422 --> 00:32:18,342
Speaker 3: He wants to ban transathletes from women's sport. Basically, all

676
00:32:18,422 --> 00:32:22,702
Speaker 3: his ideas are imported from Trump's America. Is this something

677
00:32:23,182 --> 00:32:25,382
Speaker 3: we should be worried about, like, are we about to

678
00:32:25,502 --> 00:32:27,862
Speaker 3: turn into what's happened over there?

679
00:32:27,902 --> 00:32:29,701
Speaker 1: And is this our republican part I don't think so

680
00:32:29,822 --> 00:32:32,062
Speaker 1: everyone keeps saying that, and it's like, Oh, Dutton's going

681
00:32:32,142 --> 00:32:35,062
Speaker 1: to go so Trumpian and he's going to do culture wars.

682
00:32:35,302 --> 00:32:39,062
Speaker 1: He's already said he's not. Now politicians are politicians. But

683
00:32:39,582 --> 00:32:42,261
Speaker 1: we've spoken on the show before after we all freaked

684
00:32:42,302 --> 00:32:45,462
Speaker 1: out when Trump got back in that the reason that

685
00:32:45,582 --> 00:32:49,661
Speaker 1: Australian politics will never become as extreme is because of

686
00:32:49,742 --> 00:32:53,342
Speaker 1: compulsory voting. And this sounds really nerdy, but it's not

687
00:32:53,582 --> 00:32:56,582
Speaker 1: that people don't care as much or that there aren't

688
00:32:56,582 --> 00:32:59,342
Speaker 1: as many people here that will be attracted to extreme things.

689
00:32:59,462 --> 00:33:02,942
Speaker 1: But in countries where voting isn't compulsory, it's like the algorithm.

690
00:33:03,022 --> 00:33:06,502
Speaker 1: It's literally the same thing. The issues and the policies

691
00:33:06,582 --> 00:33:08,782
Speaker 1: and the vibe that gets people out to vote has

692
00:33:08,862 --> 00:33:09,461
Speaker 1: to be extreme.

693
00:33:09,702 --> 00:33:11,542
Speaker 3: It's what I remember Holly saying that it has to

694
00:33:11,622 --> 00:33:15,221
Speaker 3: be presented as existential as this is the last election,

695
00:33:15,542 --> 00:33:16,502
Speaker 3: get off your bum.

696
00:33:16,462 --> 00:33:20,222
Speaker 1: And whereas in Australia, in most countries the vast majority

697
00:33:20,262 --> 00:33:22,782
Speaker 1: of people are in the middle are basically centrist. They're

698
00:33:22,822 --> 00:33:25,382
Speaker 1: not extreme left or extreme right. We also don't have

699
00:33:25,542 --> 00:33:26,302
Speaker 1: everyone vote.

700
00:33:26,582 --> 00:33:28,862
Speaker 3: Yeah, we also don't have the far right component. We

701
00:33:28,942 --> 00:33:31,662
Speaker 3: don't have fifty states. I think that that totally changes

702
00:33:31,862 --> 00:33:35,902
Speaker 3: our like we're obsessed with American politics culturally, I think.

703
00:33:36,382 --> 00:33:39,782
Speaker 3: But it is naive to suggest that it is going

704
00:33:39,902 --> 00:33:42,622
Speaker 3: to sort of infiltrate. I think how this.

705
00:33:42,742 --> 00:33:43,742
Speaker 2: Election is run.

706
00:33:44,702 --> 00:33:46,782
Speaker 3: I think that this not so sure. You know, you

707
00:33:46,902 --> 00:33:49,862
Speaker 3: know what it might infiltrate. It doesn't work. I do

708
00:33:50,022 --> 00:33:52,382
Speaker 3: not think it works. And let's remember that Clive Palmer,

709
00:33:52,382 --> 00:33:55,421
Speaker 3: who has already run on make Australia great Again since

710
00:33:55,542 --> 00:33:58,302
Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, are worked for Trump. He spent more than

711
00:33:58,302 --> 00:34:00,982
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty million dollars to secure one seat

712
00:34:01,182 --> 00:34:01,702
Speaker 3: in parliament.

713
00:34:01,742 --> 00:34:02,662
Speaker 1: He's just not the vibe.

714
00:34:02,862 --> 00:34:04,342
Speaker 3: He's not the vibe.

715
00:34:04,422 --> 00:34:07,502
Speaker 2: The most Trumpian thing about Clive Palmer in many ways

716
00:34:07,782 --> 00:34:10,262
Speaker 2: is his exaggeration of his own success right because he

717
00:34:10,382 --> 00:34:12,462
Speaker 2: is a very rich man. He is a proper billionaire.

718
00:34:12,542 --> 00:34:16,301
Speaker 2: He's not pretending. But he has been trying to win

719
00:34:16,702 --> 00:34:20,822
Speaker 2: serious Australian political influence for a decade and he has failed.

720
00:34:20,942 --> 00:34:24,622
Speaker 2: Clive Palmer, Yeah, Clive Palmer has, and so he would

721
00:34:24,701 --> 00:34:26,701
Speaker 2: have to go much much harder at it than he

722
00:34:26,902 --> 00:34:30,181
Speaker 2: is at the moment with his trumpet whatever, I mean,

723
00:34:30,261 --> 00:34:35,901
Speaker 2: god trumpet of patriots. But I'm a very strong It's

724
00:34:35,902 --> 00:34:37,661
Speaker 2: so funny because when I came here from England, which

725
00:34:37,701 --> 00:34:39,461
Speaker 2: is a very long time ago now, and I thought

726
00:34:39,502 --> 00:34:43,821
Speaker 2: that mandatory voting was unbelievable, Like my head nearly fell off.

727
00:34:43,862 --> 00:34:45,421
Speaker 2: I was like that it was bad. Yeah, I've never

728
00:34:45,542 --> 00:34:47,301
Speaker 2: even heard of it. I've never heard of such a thing.

729
00:34:47,342 --> 00:34:49,062
Speaker 2: There aren't very many places you to have it.

730
00:34:49,102 --> 00:34:50,861
Speaker 1: An American in this horrified and.

731
00:34:50,902 --> 00:34:53,142
Speaker 2: I actually thought it was probably quite bad for politics

732
00:34:53,181 --> 00:34:56,302
Speaker 2: because I used to think, oh, you know, people aren't informed,

733
00:34:56,342 --> 00:34:57,982
Speaker 2: but they have to vote. You know, they don't care,

734
00:34:58,062 --> 00:35:00,582
Speaker 2: but they have to vote. And now thirty years down

735
00:35:00,622 --> 00:35:02,902
Speaker 2: the line, I've been here nearly thirty years, I'm like,

736
00:35:03,542 --> 00:35:06,661
Speaker 2: that's great. The fact that you don't have to exercise

737
00:35:06,701 --> 00:35:08,942
Speaker 2: the edges exactly how you just explained it is brilliant.

738
00:35:09,542 --> 00:35:12,901
Speaker 2: But I don't think there is any argument that there

739
00:35:13,062 --> 00:35:15,341
Speaker 2: is a lot of hate to be made from dividing people.

740
00:35:15,462 --> 00:35:18,622
Speaker 2: And in Australia we do have similar divisions between the

741
00:35:19,181 --> 00:35:23,462
Speaker 2: metro people and the regional people. Country Australia, which is

742
00:35:23,502 --> 00:35:25,902
Speaker 2: the real Australia. Who are the real Australians? And we

743
00:35:26,062 --> 00:35:30,381
Speaker 2: saw it in the campaign for the Indigenous referendum. Voice

744
00:35:30,422 --> 00:35:34,382
Speaker 2: to Parliament working those divisions can be quite successful. So,

745
00:35:34,502 --> 00:35:36,741
Speaker 2: although I agree with you, Jesse, I don't think that

746
00:35:36,942 --> 00:35:40,781
Speaker 2: Palmer's the vibe. I'm not quite so optimistic that we're

747
00:35:40,862 --> 00:35:42,222
Speaker 2: not susceptible to that division.

748
00:35:42,542 --> 00:35:45,301
Speaker 1: The election is set to be announced soon. There's been

749
00:35:45,382 --> 00:35:47,261
Speaker 1: rumors that it's going to be announced any day and

750
00:35:47,342 --> 00:35:49,181
Speaker 1: that maybe the election will be before Easter.

751
00:35:49,342 --> 00:35:51,582
Speaker 2: You know what I'm worried about very selfishly, Well, if

752
00:35:51,622 --> 00:35:53,302
Speaker 2: it's on the day we do one of our shows,

753
00:35:53,622 --> 00:35:55,821
Speaker 2: I mean we will have time to go and vote.

754
00:35:57,102 --> 00:35:59,221
Speaker 2: What if the result comes in while we're on stageh

755
00:35:59,382 --> 00:36:00,261
Speaker 2: that not just be fun?

756
00:36:00,582 --> 00:36:00,821
Speaker 4: Okay?

757
00:36:01,302 --> 00:36:03,181
Speaker 2: Could we be likely sales out of bell Crab like

758
00:36:03,261 --> 00:36:05,702
Speaker 2: on the stage calling it Yeah, yeah.

759
00:36:05,582 --> 00:36:07,942
Speaker 1: We will bags you be Anthony Green Jesse.

760
00:36:10,181 --> 00:36:13,742
Speaker 3: In a moment. There are seven different types of Flakes,

761
00:36:14,181 --> 00:36:14,741
Speaker 3: which one is.

762
00:36:14,781 --> 00:36:18,981
Speaker 2: Maya one unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every

763
00:36:19,062 --> 00:36:23,382
Speaker 2: Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the

764
00:36:23,422 --> 00:36:25,022
Speaker 2: link at the show notes to get us in your

765
00:36:25,062 --> 00:36:28,142
Speaker 2: ears five days a week, and a huge thank you

766
00:36:28,342 --> 00:36:30,142
Speaker 2: to all our current subscribers.

767
00:36:36,422 --> 00:36:40,261
Speaker 1: Counseling plans is so hot right now. Last week I

768
00:36:40,422 --> 00:36:42,502
Speaker 1: tried to cancel a dinner because it was raining.

769
00:36:42,902 --> 00:36:43,422
Speaker 2: How did that go?

770
00:36:44,982 --> 00:36:47,542
Speaker 1: The person I tried to cancel told me that I

771
00:36:47,661 --> 00:36:50,462
Speaker 1: was pathetic and did you go? I went good and

772
00:36:50,542 --> 00:36:53,742
Speaker 1: I had a great time. Glad I didn't cancel. Everyone's lonely.

773
00:36:53,862 --> 00:36:55,821
Speaker 1: But when it comes to actually leaving the house, how

774
00:36:55,862 --> 00:36:58,142
Speaker 1: come nobody can be bothered to follow through on the

775
00:36:58,261 --> 00:37:01,102
Speaker 1: arrangement they made in a flood of social enthusiasm last

776
00:37:01,142 --> 00:37:05,822
Speaker 1: week after their second coffee. Stylus dot com recently posted

777
00:37:05,862 --> 00:37:10,262
Speaker 1: a story by writer Shahed Azadi about the psychology behind

778
00:37:10,582 --> 00:37:13,342
Speaker 1: the seven different types of flake, and I guarantee that

779
00:37:13,382 --> 00:37:16,062
Speaker 1: you will recognize yourself or the flakes in your life

780
00:37:16,142 --> 00:37:19,821
Speaker 1: from the following list. First one, the relationship flake. This

781
00:37:19,982 --> 00:37:23,302
Speaker 1: is the kind of flake that cancels because of reasons

782
00:37:23,382 --> 00:37:26,582
Speaker 1: or plans with their partner. Their partner will always come first.

783
00:37:26,902 --> 00:37:28,342
Speaker 3: I find that flake very annoying.

784
00:37:28,502 --> 00:37:29,422
Speaker 2: Yeah, strange.

785
00:37:29,582 --> 00:37:31,902
Speaker 1: Second type is the work flake. They're always working in.

786
00:37:31,982 --> 00:37:33,341
Speaker 1: Work will always be prioritized.

787
00:37:33,382 --> 00:37:34,301
Speaker 2: I'm sure we've all been that.

788
00:37:34,982 --> 00:37:38,022
Speaker 1: The last minute flake. This is my jam. They have

789
00:37:38,181 --> 00:37:41,062
Speaker 1: something called present bias, so they commit to plans when

790
00:37:41,102 --> 00:37:44,102
Speaker 1: they feel excited and like it's a good idea, but

791
00:37:44,181 --> 00:37:46,382
Speaker 1: then they struggle with those plans when they're faced with

792
00:37:46,462 --> 00:37:48,781
Speaker 1: the immediate cognitive load of following.

793
00:37:48,502 --> 00:37:50,542
Speaker 2: Through on the You know what's great about the last

794
00:37:50,582 --> 00:37:53,542
Speaker 2: minute flake is that sometimes if I'm at a social

795
00:37:53,582 --> 00:37:56,102
Speaker 2: event where me is meant to come, I never think

796
00:37:56,142 --> 00:37:58,301
Speaker 2: she's gonna come. I think she's going to last minute flake,

797
00:37:58,701 --> 00:38:01,301
Speaker 2: and then sometimes she just turns up and it's like

798
00:38:01,382 --> 00:38:03,982
Speaker 2: a wonderful surprise. I remember when we were going to

799
00:38:04,062 --> 00:38:05,741
Speaker 2: something at the Opera House and we were having dinner

800
00:38:05,781 --> 00:38:08,221
Speaker 2: before and I was like, Mia is never coming to

801
00:38:08,302 --> 00:38:11,701
Speaker 2: this restaurant. Too many steps, too many steps, too much,

802
00:38:12,062 --> 00:38:13,901
Speaker 2: she will never find a park, it's not going to happen.

803
00:38:14,102 --> 00:38:15,301
Speaker 2: And then she just materialized.

804
00:38:15,302 --> 00:38:17,142
Speaker 1: It was like a little tree. I have a lot

805
00:38:17,181 --> 00:38:19,862
Speaker 1: of stern words with myself because I'm trying to deflake

806
00:38:20,022 --> 00:38:23,261
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to be more present, so I've got

807
00:38:23,342 --> 00:38:26,301
Speaker 1: like a show up thing anyway. Number four this is

808
00:38:26,302 --> 00:38:29,661
Speaker 1: also sometimes me the forgetful flake. This flake relies on

809
00:38:29,822 --> 00:38:32,142
Speaker 1: the other person either forgetting that you've made the plan,

810
00:38:32,822 --> 00:38:36,022
Speaker 1: or hoping that the planned hangout is forgotten so that

811
00:38:36,542 --> 00:38:39,862
Speaker 1: no excuses are necessary. Preemptive flake is someone who's so

812
00:38:40,062 --> 00:38:43,102
Speaker 1: proceeds of bailing a few days out they start complaining

813
00:38:43,181 --> 00:38:46,502
Speaker 1: of feeling tired, run down, or busy at work. That's

814
00:38:46,582 --> 00:38:49,622
Speaker 1: not me, because that's someone with a lot of just

815
00:38:49,741 --> 00:38:53,381
Speaker 1: say no yes. I think this is possibly you two

816
00:38:53,462 --> 00:38:56,821
Speaker 1: definitely number six the people pleasing flake, and this is

817
00:38:56,862 --> 00:38:58,941
Speaker 1: people who say yes to plans to make everyone happy,

818
00:38:58,982 --> 00:39:00,221
Speaker 1: but there's no way they can do it all, so

819
00:39:00,302 --> 00:39:01,302
Speaker 1: they have to flake.

820
00:39:01,502 --> 00:39:04,901
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I will say yes in the moment. Two

821
00:39:04,982 --> 00:39:05,901
Speaker 3: plans on Monday night.

822
00:39:06,102 --> 00:39:11,022
Speaker 2: Yes, and then I go, hmmm, something to work that.

823
00:39:11,422 --> 00:39:13,582
Speaker 1: So you'll say yes because you don't want to disappoint

824
00:39:13,622 --> 00:39:16,422
Speaker 1: someone in the moment. And sometimes do you always know

825
00:39:16,542 --> 00:39:17,701
Speaker 1: that you're going to cancel before it?

826
00:39:18,022 --> 00:39:18,701
Speaker 2: Yes, you do.

827
00:39:18,942 --> 00:39:21,181
Speaker 3: I know that I've got to and then ultimately you

828
00:39:21,342 --> 00:39:22,981
Speaker 3: just let them down ten times more than you would

829
00:39:22,982 --> 00:39:23,701
Speaker 3: have in the first place.

830
00:39:23,822 --> 00:39:24,701
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is your fear.

831
00:39:25,622 --> 00:39:28,261
Speaker 1: And the last one, seventh type of flake is the

832
00:39:28,422 --> 00:39:31,701
Speaker 1: upgrade flake. This is a flake you'll see a lot

833
00:39:32,022 --> 00:39:34,422
Speaker 1: around news eve. They say yes to plans with you,

834
00:39:34,502 --> 00:39:37,062
Speaker 1: but they keep an eye out for better options always.

835
00:39:37,221 --> 00:39:38,862
Speaker 2: Ye, Mia, I've got a bone to pick with you.

836
00:39:38,902 --> 00:39:41,062
Speaker 2: A bit of feedback about your flakiness. It's not actually

837
00:39:41,102 --> 00:39:43,862
Speaker 2: about the flakingness. It's about because MEA's she's the opposite

838
00:39:43,862 --> 00:39:44,862
Speaker 2: of the people please a flake.

839
00:39:44,942 --> 00:39:45,062
Speaker 4: Right.

840
00:39:45,142 --> 00:39:50,342
Speaker 2: So Mia wrote a newsletter recently, maybe I was feeling sensitive.

841
00:39:50,422 --> 00:39:52,262
Speaker 2: I was like, fuck sake, Maya. When I read.

842
00:39:54,142 --> 00:39:55,382
Speaker 1: Anyone that I had that reaction.

843
00:39:55,942 --> 00:39:58,261
Speaker 2: It was I've got a new way to say no

844
00:39:58,382 --> 00:40:00,142
Speaker 2: to plans, to things I don't want to do. And

845
00:40:00,302 --> 00:40:02,261
Speaker 2: I think the subject line would have been better than that,

846
00:40:02,261 --> 00:40:04,741
Speaker 2: because you're a good writer. But it was basically that

847
00:40:04,822 --> 00:40:07,741
Speaker 2: when someone asks you to do something, you just say,

848
00:40:07,902 --> 00:40:08,741
Speaker 2: oh no, I'd hate that.

849
00:40:10,142 --> 00:40:11,542
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh know, I'd hate that.

850
00:40:11,781 --> 00:40:15,661
Speaker 2: That is so offensive and so very levels.

851
00:40:15,982 --> 00:40:18,502
Speaker 1: Because can I explain I got a liverit that that's

852
00:40:18,582 --> 00:40:21,781
Speaker 1: highly advanced. That's highly advanced preflaking.

853
00:40:22,181 --> 00:40:25,542
Speaker 2: That is like an aggressive, aggressive flake because no, it

854
00:40:25,622 --> 00:40:27,342
Speaker 2: doesn't just say I don't want to do it. It

855
00:40:27,462 --> 00:40:30,181
Speaker 2: kind of says you must be crazy for wanting to

856
00:40:30,302 --> 00:40:33,181
Speaker 2: do that and for thinking, even for a moment, that

857
00:40:33,342 --> 00:40:34,102
Speaker 2: I want to do that.

858
00:40:34,462 --> 00:40:36,582
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very hard because there's a bit of shame

859
00:40:36,701 --> 00:40:38,821
Speaker 1: in that place. Yes in that response, isn't there?

860
00:40:38,982 --> 00:40:40,741
Speaker 2: And then the other part of my worry is like,

861
00:40:40,781 --> 00:40:43,661
Speaker 2: I've got some concern trolling about it for you. What

862
00:40:43,822 --> 00:40:46,982
Speaker 2: if you think you'd hate it but you wouldn't, because

863
00:40:47,261 --> 00:40:49,901
Speaker 2: I worry that sometimes when you were very rigid about

864
00:40:49,982 --> 00:40:52,142
Speaker 2: I don't do those things, like I don't do Monday

865
00:40:52,221 --> 00:40:54,261
Speaker 2: night drinks or I don't do you. She used to

866
00:40:54,302 --> 00:40:55,622
Speaker 2: be I don't do red carpets.

867
00:40:55,862 --> 00:40:56,221
Speaker 1: I don't.

868
00:40:56,342 --> 00:40:58,102
Speaker 2: Then she went to the logis, yeah, she did a

869
00:40:58,142 --> 00:41:00,261
Speaker 2: red carpet every week, but I hate it still. But

870
00:41:00,422 --> 00:41:02,502
Speaker 2: you went to another one and you were like, actually

871
00:41:02,582 --> 00:41:05,582
Speaker 2: that was fun. So what about breaking out of rigiditity?

872
00:41:05,982 --> 00:41:08,701
Speaker 1: You're right, and sometimes you need to just get over

873
00:41:08,741 --> 00:41:11,022
Speaker 1: yourself and show up. Sometimes you just got to show

874
00:41:11,102 --> 00:41:14,221
Speaker 1: up when it's hurtful to someone else, Like I think

875
00:41:14,261 --> 00:41:15,382
Speaker 1: it's important to show up.

876
00:41:15,661 --> 00:41:18,582
Speaker 3: Twice yesterday I tried to convince people to come to

877
00:41:18,661 --> 00:41:21,342
Speaker 3: an escape room with me. She's different social situations, and

878
00:41:21,422 --> 00:41:24,982
Speaker 3: twice they said along the words of oh, no, i'd

879
00:41:25,022 --> 00:41:27,582
Speaker 3: hate that and starting a movement. Guys, I found myself

880
00:41:27,741 --> 00:41:32,821
Speaker 3: becoming a paid sponsor of escape rooms. And I got

881
00:41:32,942 --> 00:41:33,782
Speaker 3: home and I went.

882
00:41:33,661 --> 00:41:35,902
Speaker 1: Because it's then you take it as a challenge and

883
00:41:35,982 --> 00:41:37,381
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm going to convince.

884
00:41:37,142 --> 00:41:39,301
Speaker 3: You escape rooms are actually really fun.

885
00:41:39,382 --> 00:41:42,102
Speaker 2: Have you found anyone to go to an escape room? Only? Luca?

886
00:41:42,181 --> 00:41:44,821
Speaker 3: And it's just too sad. I am actually reformed for

887
00:41:44,942 --> 00:41:46,982
Speaker 3: like I have managed to reform it.

888
00:41:47,342 --> 00:41:50,381
Speaker 1: You go out a lot. That's true because what changed.

889
00:41:50,142 --> 00:41:55,661
Speaker 3: I was in my I reckon early twenties, so unreliable,

890
00:41:56,221 --> 00:41:58,542
Speaker 3: so like, and that was the I realized that that

891
00:41:58,622 --> 00:42:01,382
Speaker 3: was a reputation I was getting, letting people down with

892
00:42:01,462 --> 00:42:03,062
Speaker 3: something I did all the time because of the people

893
00:42:03,062 --> 00:42:07,261
Speaker 3: pleasing element. I wasn't organized in a diary and I

894
00:42:07,502 --> 00:42:13,102
Speaker 3: saw it seriously people's feelings and someone who needed to

895
00:42:13,142 --> 00:42:14,941
Speaker 3: hang out because something was going on in their lives.

896
00:42:15,062 --> 00:42:16,982
Speaker 3: I wasn't there, and you don't come back from that.

897
00:42:17,261 --> 00:42:19,221
Speaker 1: It's a bit like sex as well, like sometimes you

898
00:42:19,342 --> 00:42:20,902
Speaker 1: just don't feel like it, like the thought of it.

899
00:42:20,982 --> 00:42:23,142
Speaker 1: You're like, I don't know, I'd hate that. Oh no,

900
00:42:23,181 --> 00:42:27,142
Speaker 1: I'd hate that, you think to yourself, But then you

901
00:42:27,542 --> 00:42:28,301
Speaker 1: have a great time.

902
00:42:28,661 --> 00:42:33,741
Speaker 6: I want what I want us to find this many

903
00:42:33,862 --> 00:42:40,102
Speaker 6: ways to answer the question with oh no. This week's

904
00:42:40,221 --> 00:42:42,382
Speaker 6: challenge for everybody.

905
00:42:41,982 --> 00:42:49,781
Speaker 5: Involved with that loud Okay, massive thank you to all

906
00:42:49,862 --> 00:42:52,741
Speaker 5: of the out louders who didn't say oh no, I'd

907
00:42:52,781 --> 00:42:55,701
Speaker 5: hate that when it came to pressing play on today's show,

908
00:42:56,102 --> 00:42:58,422
Speaker 5: and of course to a fabulous scene for putting it together.

909
00:42:58,462 --> 00:43:01,421
Speaker 2: We're going to be back in your ears tomorrow. Goodbye bye.

910
00:43:02,862 --> 00:43:05,302
Speaker 3: Shout out to any Mum and Me are subscribers listening.

911
00:43:05,622 --> 00:43:07,701
Speaker 3: If you love the show and you want to support us,

912
00:43:08,022 --> 00:43:10,462
Speaker 3: subscribing to Mom and Me I is the very best

913
00:43:10,542 --> 00:43:13,382
Speaker 3: way to do so. There's a link in the episode description.