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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Mamma Mer's twice daily

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Speaker 2: news podcast, The Quickie. In case he missed it, Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump has been busy dealing in diplomacy. We've already seen

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Speaker 2: him sit down with Russias Vladimir Putin to try and

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Speaker 2: strike a deal to end the war in Ukraine. But

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Speaker 2: what does his recent meeting with Ukrainian leader Vladimir Zelenski

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Speaker 2: tell us about closing this chapter of conflict? Plus want

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Speaker 2: to survive your next team meeting or brainstorm? Well, it

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Speaker 2: turns out there's only three types of people at work,

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Speaker 2: and knowing who you are and who your coworkers are

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Speaker 2: will go a long way in getting stuff done in

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Speaker 2: the office before we get there. He's Claire Murphy with

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Speaker 2: the latest from The Quickie newsroom for Wednesday, August twenty

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Speaker 2: Thanks Taylor.

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Speaker 1: Bruce Lehman will have three days to convince an appeals

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Speaker 1: court to throw out the finding that he likely raped

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Speaker 1: his colleague Britney Higgins in Parliament House. The former Liberal

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Speaker 1: staffer is seeking to overturn a federal court judgment the

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Speaker 1: found he was not defamed by Network ten and journalist

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Speaker 1: Lisa Wilkinson during an interview with Miss Higgins on the

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Speaker 1: project in twenty twenty one. Justice Michael Lee found Miss

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Speaker 1: Higgins's claim she'd been raped in Parliament House in twenty

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Speaker 1: nineteen were substantially true in a ruling against Lehman in

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Speaker 1: April twenty twenty four. But Lehman claims the judgment contained

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Speaker 1: many errors and launched an appeal which will be heard

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Speaker 1: in court from today in Sydney. Lherman alleges he was

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Speaker 1: denied procedural fairness because the events found by the judge

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Speaker 1: were starkly different from the case run by Ten. He

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Speaker 1: points to the allegation Miss Higgins had repeatedly said no

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Speaker 1: on a loop during the alleged incident, which Justice Lee

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Speaker 1: was not satisfied had occurred. Lherman also argues that the

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Speaker 1: case as found by Justice Lee wasn't put to him

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Speaker 1: during cross examination for his response. He says, because of

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Speaker 1: deficiencies in Miss Higgins's evidence, the judge should not have

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Speaker 1: found he engaged in rape. Tasmania's returned minority liberal Romia

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Speaker 1: has declared he wants to get on with the job.

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Speaker 1: After a snap election and weeks of political uncertainty finally

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Speaker 1: came to an end this week. Jeremy Rockcliffe received Parliament's

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Speaker 1: green light to continue governing on Tuesday afternoon, when a

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Speaker 1: Labour bid to seize power via and no confidence motion

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Speaker 1: fell spectacularly flat. Neither the Liberals, who won fourteen seats

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Speaker 1: or Labour, who reached ten, managed to score the required

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Speaker 1: eighteen seats needed for majority of the July nineteen election. Labour,

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Speaker 1: which has been in opposition for eleven years in Tasmania,

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Speaker 1: tried to unseat mister Rockcliffe as Premier and install its

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Speaker 1: leader Dean Winter in the role on parliament's first day back,

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Speaker 1: but none of the cross bench, which includes five Greens,

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Speaker 1: five Independents and one Shooters Fishers and Farmers MP, backed

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Speaker 1: mister Winter's motion. Israel is studying Hamas's response to a

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Speaker 1: Gaza Strip ceasefire proposal for a sixty day truce and

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Speaker 1: the release of half the hostages still held in the enclave.

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Speaker 1: Two Israeli officials have confirmed that they are considering the agreement,

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Speaker 1: but one source reiterated that all all Israeli captives must

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Speaker 1: be freed for the war to end. Efforts to pause

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Speaker 1: the fighting gain momentum over the past week after Israel

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Speaker 1: announced plans for a new offensive to seize control of

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Speaker 1: Gaza City. According to a Hamas official, the proposal includes

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Speaker 1: the release of two hundred Palestinian prisoners jailed in Israel

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Speaker 1: and an unspecified number of imprisoned women and miners in

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Speaker 1: return for ten living and eighteen deceased hostages from the

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Speaker 1: Gaza Strip. Israel says a total of fifty hostages remain

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Speaker 1: in the enclave, twenty of them believed to still be alive. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister Anthony Albernizi has been accused of having abandoned

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Speaker 1: Australian Jews as relations deteriorate between the two nations. Israeli

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister Benjamin NETTNYA, who took to social media to

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Speaker 1: personally attack mister Alberizi in an escalation of the diplomatic stout,

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Speaker 1: writing history will remember Alberanzi for what he is, a

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Speaker 1: weak politician who betrayed Israel and abandoned Australia's Jews. The

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Speaker 1: post comes after Australia's decision to recognize the state of

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Speaker 1: Palestine and refine use entry to significant Israeli figures. Israel

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Speaker 1: responded by revoking the visas of a trio of Australian

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Speaker 1: representatives to the Palestinian authority. Foreign Minister Penny Wong said

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Speaker 1: the government had a right to safeguard communities and protect

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Speaker 1: all Australians from hate and harm. The tenth Women's Rugby

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Speaker 1: World Cup, which opens in England this weekend, looks set

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Speaker 1: to smash attendance records and set a very high bar

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Speaker 1: for Australia when we host the event in twenty twenty nine.

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Speaker 1: Organizers have announced ticket sales have dwarfed previous tournaments, including

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Speaker 1: an eighty two thousand Twickenham sellout for the final today,

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Speaker 1: three hundred and seventy five thousand of the four hundred

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Speaker 1: and seventy thousand available tickets have been sold, three times

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Speaker 1: the number that was snapped up at the last tournament

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Speaker 1: in New Zealand in twenty twenty two, and more than

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Speaker 1: ten times the thirty thousand for the last World Cup

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Speaker 1: held in England in twenty ten. The final on September

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Speaker 1: twenty seven will create a new record for a women's international,

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Speaker 1: currently set at fifty eight thousand, four hundred and ninety

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Speaker 1: eight at the same stadium for England v. France in

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty three Six Nations. Kristin Davis has revealed

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Speaker 1: that she was once set up on a date with

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Speaker 1: Friend star Matthew Perry. Davis spoke on her podcast about

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Speaker 1: the night, which was organized by a third party, saying

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Speaker 1: it was in the late nineties before she was on

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Speaker 1: Sex in the City, but after she'd finished her run

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Speaker 1: on Melroe's Place, she says, Perry sat next to her

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Speaker 1: at the dinner party full of Hollywood people and told

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Speaker 1: her how much he loved being on the set of

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Speaker 1: Friends and how happy they all were to work together.

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Speaker 1: Recalling how she felt the opposite about her time on Melrose,

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Speaker 1: which had felt overly competitive and like any one of

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Speaker 1: them could get cut at any time, she says Perry,

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Speaker 1: who passed away in twenty twenty three due to the

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Speaker 1: acute effects of ketamine, was lovely.

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Speaker 2: Thanks. Claire. Next the International Diplomat Dance, What Trump's meetings

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Speaker 2: with Putin and Zelenski really mean?

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Speaker 1: This week, global.

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Speaker 2: Eyes were on Washington as US President Donald Trump hosted

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Speaker 2: Ukrainian President Voladimir Zelenski just days after Trump's headline grabbing

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Speaker 2: meeting with rushes of blood mere Putin, So what's the deal?

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Speaker 2: As the war rages on in Ukraine, Trump has once

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Speaker 2: again stepped in, nominating himself as the one to bring

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Speaker 2: peace to the region, reigniting talks of peace deals between

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Speaker 2: the two nations. Late last week we saw Trump meet

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Speaker 2: with Putin in Alaska, declaring the summit a success.

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Speaker 3: The Alaska summit reinforced my belief that while difficult, pieces

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Speaker 3: within reach, and I believe that in a very significant step,

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Speaker 3: President Putin agreed that Russia would accept security guarantees for Ukraine.

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Speaker 3: And this is one of the key points that we

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Speaker 3: need to consider, and we're going to be considering that

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Speaker 3: at the table.

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Speaker 2: Also now, as we noted last week on the quickie

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Speaker 2: peace talks between Russia and Ukraine, yes did take place

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Speaker 2: hosted by the US president, with the Ukrainian leader notably absent.

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Speaker 2: Fast forward to this week and Trump has now hosted

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Speaker 2: another round of peace talks. This time the Ukrainian leader

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Speaker 2: was present, but Putin's invite was lost in the mail.

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Speaker 2: When Zelenski met Trump, he arrived flanked by several European leaders,

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Speaker 2: signaling that this wasn't just about the US and Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: Europe itself is also watching closely. The tone of this

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Speaker 2: week's meeting was a market shift from February, when Trump

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Speaker 2: and Vice President Jade Vance hosted what can only be

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Speaker 2: described as a heated reception with the Ukrainian president.

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Speaker 3: I said, thanks, we gave you, through the stupid president,

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Speaker 3: three hundred and fifty billion dollars.

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Speaker 4: We gave your military equipment.

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Speaker 2: This time, the two sides were far friendlier, hinting at

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Speaker 2: a cautious optimism for progress. But Taylor, how did Zelenski

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Speaker 2: and Trump leave the meeting? Well, Trump says, there's hope

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Speaker 2: for you. Guessed it. Another meeting on the books, this

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Speaker 2: time between the warring leaders, and Trump too will be there.

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Speaker 4: Maybe Ultimately, this is a decision that can only be

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Speaker 4: made by President Zolensky and by the people of Ukraine

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Speaker 4: working also together an agreement with President Putin.

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Speaker 3: I'll set up a meeting with President Putin, and if

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Speaker 3: you'd like, I'll go to that meeting. And not that

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Speaker 3: I want to do that, but I will do that

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Speaker 3: because we want to save a lot of people from dying.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people are dying, and we got to

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Speaker 3: save them.

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Speaker 2: But currently everything remains in flux, Zelensky and European leaders

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Speaker 2: wanting to cease fire before peace talks can commence, Putin

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Speaker 2: and Trump wanting to get straight down to business as always.

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Speaker 2: Our US correspondent Emelia Lester is here to unpack it all. Amelia, Look,

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Speaker 2: this is not the first time that Donald Trump and

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Speaker 2: Vladimir Zelensky met this year. Last time it ended in

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Speaker 2: some raid's voices, some tension. But how did this meeting

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Speaker 2: differ to the last time that Zelenski was in DC.

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Speaker 5: Well, Zelenski wore a suit this time, so they were

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Speaker 5: the optics of it being different. But honestly, the first

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Speaker 5: thing that really hit me when I was reviewing what

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Speaker 5: happened is that Trump looked so much happier, less angry.

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Speaker 5: They shared a joke about still elections during wartime, which

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Speaker 5: was nice. He seemed almost joyful in Zelenski's presence.

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Speaker 2: Why what does he know that we don't.

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Speaker 5: My theory is that I think his ego was stroked

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Speaker 5: by the array of European leaders that accompanied Zelensky, and

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Speaker 5: that's clearly why they all rush to get on a plane.

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Speaker 5: This was not planned, But we learn on the weekend.

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Speaker 5: In addition to Zelenski coming to Washington, we were also

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Speaker 5: getting the British, the French, the Italian, the Finnish, the German,

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Speaker 5: and the President of the European Commission leaders plus the

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Speaker 5: Native Secretary General Mark Route, who was a great Trump whisperer.

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Speaker 5: So I think he just felt very gratified that so

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Speaker 5: many world leaders showed up to this meeting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an important note because Lenski did not arrive solo.

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Speaker 2: He was flanked by all these other people. Why is

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Speaker 2: that though, I mean, did he need the extra support

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Speaker 2: going into the lions Den.

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Speaker 5: It's a pretty extraordinary lineup to assemble over the course

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Speaker 5: of what was basically forty eight hours. Really, what happened,

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Speaker 5: I think is that Europe looked at what happened on

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Speaker 5: Friday in Alaska and they were extremely worried. This is

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Speaker 5: a sign of just how alarmed they were by the

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Speaker 5: coziness between Trump and Putin on Friday, and then they

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Speaker 5: all booked tickets on the same flight to Washington to

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Speaker 5: get there on Monday. They wanted to make sure that

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Speaker 5: Zelenski was not treated the way he was last time.

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Speaker 5: And I will note that jd vance this time, the

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Speaker 5: Vice President was much quieter and less aggressive than he

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Speaker 5: was last time around, possibly because there were so many

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Speaker 5: more people in the room, and they also wanted to

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Speaker 5: correct what they saw happening on Friday, which is that

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Speaker 5: Trump's position on Russia's war in Ukraine has started to

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Speaker 5: move very pointedly towards Russia's side, after months of concerted

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Speaker 5: lobbying from the Europeans to help make him see their

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Speaker 5: point of view.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, coming off the back of that summit in

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Speaker 2: Alaska with the Russian leader, is it a little bit

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Speaker 2: maybe now of concern for putting the cart before the horse,

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Speaker 2: Because when that meeting concluded, Trump and Putin sort of said, well,

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Speaker 2: let's just get to the point, strike a deal, don't

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Speaker 2: worry about seas file, which is what the European leaders

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Speaker 2: and Zelenski ultimately have wanted to happen. They want to

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Speaker 2: cease fire before they come back to the table to

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Speaker 2: strike a deal. Is that a concerning thing? Should we

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Speaker 2: be worried that they're going to try and leapfrog actually

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Speaker 2: guns down?

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Speaker 5: No, you're exactly right. I think the big takeaway from Friday.

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Speaker 5: At first, on Friday, I think analysts sort of said, oh,

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Speaker 5: nothing appears to have happened here, But then the way

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Speaker 5: Trump talked after it, it became clear that he really

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Speaker 5: has shifted to Putin's point of view, which is that

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Speaker 5: a peace agreement needs to come before a ceasefire. Now,

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Speaker 5: when you think about it, it's kind of an illogical

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Speaker 5: position to take, and the Europeans have been clear that

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Speaker 5: a peace agreement can't happen without a ceasefire. But now

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Speaker 5: that Trump's move over to Putin's point of view on this,

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Speaker 5: europe has to kind of wrench him back.

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Speaker 2: I feel like, on one hand, Trump and Putin are trying

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Speaker 2: to rush to the finish line, strike a deal, don't

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Speaker 2: worry about ceasefire. But then on the other hand, it

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Speaker 2: also feels that this is being really dragged out. We

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Speaker 2: had a summit in Alaska where there was one leader,

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Speaker 2: we had one in Washington when there was one leader.

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Speaker 2: There's talks of maybe a trilateral meeting on the cards

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Speaker 2: in the future. What is going on here? Why can't

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Speaker 2: they just get the three of them because Trump has

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Speaker 2: to be involved, he's gunning for that Nobel Peace Prize.

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Speaker 2: Why can't the three of them just get in a

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Speaker 2: room and do this. Why does it have to keep

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Speaker 2: being dragged out like this.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you've hit on the dynamic, which is

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Speaker 5: that we've had this flurry of activity over the last

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Speaker 5: few months. As Trump says he really wants to resolve

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Speaker 5: this war, but stepping back, we've actually made no progress

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Speaker 5: in the last few months. Look, there've been a few

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Speaker 5: small breakthroughs, and let me list them from the meeting

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Speaker 5: that happened. The US has agreed to buy Ukrainian drones

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Speaker 5: when it starts exporting them. Ukraine has basically built up

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Speaker 5: a really cutting edge drones industry from scratch in this war,

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Speaker 5: and it needs the money from those drone exports. Trump

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Speaker 5: has said the US is going to coordinate on European

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Speaker 5: security guarantees, but there've been no details on this. And

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Speaker 5: he's also said he truth socialed after the meeting, and

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Speaker 5: he said that he wants to arrange a triladal between him, Zelenski,

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Speaker 5: and Putin. But Putin's advisors said pretty much immediately after

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Speaker 5: words that Putin is not going to be involved in that,

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Speaker 5: he's not going to sit down with Zelenski. So even

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Speaker 5: setting aside those small breakthroughs, there's a fundamental problem that

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Speaker 5: remains a chasm between what Russia and Ukraine see as

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Speaker 5: the reason for fighting the war and there for the

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Speaker 5: reason for stopping the war. Putin does not think Ukraine

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Speaker 5: is a sovereign nation. He wants don Basies, which is

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Speaker 5: this portion of Ukraine in the east, but he also

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Speaker 5: just fundamentally doesn't think that the borders around Ukraine are real.

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Speaker 5: And Ukraine's position is the borders around our country not

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Speaker 5: only are they real, but we will fight to defend

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Speaker 5: these until the end. And it's very hard to find

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Speaker 5: common ground between these two perspectives because they are on

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Speaker 5: some level irreconcilable.

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Speaker 2: So we joked last week that JD. Vance was having

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Speaker 2: a very hard time in his executive assistant role trying

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Speaker 2: to pin down the three men to have a meeting

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Speaker 2: at once. It sounds like that's maybe even further in

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Speaker 2: the future than what maybe Trump is putting out there

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Speaker 2: at the end of this meeting with Zelensky this week.

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Speaker 5: I think so, and I think that's why it's confused

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Speaker 5: me a little bit that even the Europeans have gotten

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Speaker 5: hung up on the security guarantee and hammering out the

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Speaker 5: details of it, when we can't even get to the

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Speaker 5: position of ending the war. But I think it's very

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Speaker 5: human to sort of grasp onto the one thing that

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Speaker 5: maybe you can find agreement on, which is the security guarantees,

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Speaker 5: versus the thing that you can't, which is the reason

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Speaker 5: for fighting the war in the first place.

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Speaker 2: When you say security guarantees, Amelia, what does that actually mean.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a really good question, and it can mean

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Speaker 5: a lot of things. On one end, you've got inclusion

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Speaker 5: in NATO, which is something that neither Biden nor Trump

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Speaker 5: has said that they want to happen. On the other end,

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Speaker 5: you've got basically just minimal observation and surveillance to make

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Speaker 5: sure that Russia doesn't invade again, because security guarantee stepping

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Speaker 5: back means how can we make sure that Ukraine is

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Speaker 5: not invaded by Russia again? So the Europeans are currently

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Speaker 5: lobbying for a kind of NATO style force that would

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Speaker 5: go into Ukraine and prevent Russia from invading. But Trump,

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Speaker 5: in his latest truth social has said he doesn't want

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Speaker 5: American boots on the ground. He wants more of American coordination,

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Speaker 5: which I think means running kind of spreadsheets about the

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Speaker 5: troops on the ground. We don't really know, do.

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Speaker 2: You ever find yourself in one of those classic work meetings,

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Speaker 2: you know, the kind someone's drawing flow charts, someone else

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Speaker 2: is aggressively nodding, and then suddenly it hits you, Oh,

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Speaker 2: I know exactly who I am in this room, whether

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Speaker 2: you like it or not. We all tend to fall

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Speaker 2: into one of three roles when the brainstorming kicks off. Dreamers,

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Speaker 2: doubters or doers. And before you go claiming you're a

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Speaker 2: bit of everything, sure, but we've all got a dominant type,

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Speaker 2: and it's important to be a little bit self aware

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Speaker 2: and recognize where you fall in the lineup. First up, dreamers.

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Speaker 2: These are your big picture, blue sky thinkers. They light

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Speaker 2: up meetings with wild ideas about revolutionizing the company, never

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Speaker 2: bogged down by the way it's always been done. Dreamers

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Speaker 2: the ones everybody wants to be. They don't let reality

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Speaker 2: get in the way of a good idea. But dreamers

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Speaker 2: also aren't perfect. Sometimes those massive visions don't fit the

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Speaker 2: actual budget, timeline or business model. You need them for inspiration,

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Speaker 2: but not always for logistics. Then there's the doubters, also

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Speaker 2: known as the realists, and let's be honest, sometimes the

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Speaker 2: natesayers doubters are the ones in the meetings, quietly asking okay,

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Speaker 2: cook or cool, but how are we actually going to

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Speaker 2: do this? Well, you might think of them as the

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Speaker 2: party police. They're essential for picking up potential problems and pitfalls. Finally,

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Speaker 2: doers there they get it done. Cru when it's time

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Speaker 2: to move from PowerPoint slides to actual action, that doers

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Speaker 2: are already making lists and ticking boxes. Without them, not

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Speaker 2: much happens. The magic comes when doers push dreamers and

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Speaker 2: doubters to turn theories into reality. The secret to a

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Speaker 2: good team isn't about equal numbers, it's about balance. Too

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Speaker 2: many dreamers and nothing gets finished. Too many doubters and

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Speaker 2: nobody dares to throw out a bold idea, and with

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Speaker 2: too few doers, the best laid plans never leave the room.

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Speaker 2: So what to do about all of this? Well, next

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Speaker 2: time you're in that room, the one with the flow

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Speaker 2: charts and the forced enthusiasm, take a beat clock who's

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Speaker 2: who and who's missing? Maybe you're the dreamer who needs

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Speaker 2: a doubter to stress test your idea. Maybe you're the

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Speaker 2: doubter who could chill for five minutes and let an

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Speaker 2: idea breathe. Or maybe you're the doer who needs everyone

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Speaker 2: to stop talking and pick a lane. Thanks for taking

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Speaker 2: some time to feed your mind with us today before

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Speaker 2: your head off, I just want to let you know

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Speaker 2: it that The Quickie is produced by me Taylorstrano and

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Speaker 2: Claire Murphy, with audio production by Blue Hill