Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to MoMA Mia out loud. It's what
Speaker 1: women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the eighth of April.
Speaker 2: I'm Holly Waynwright, I'm.
Speaker 3: Amelia Leicester and I'm Kles Stevens.
Speaker 2: First time we have gathered since the Long weekend. Yeah, yes, fine,
Speaker 2: it was.
Speaker 3: It was eventful and in terms of the.
Speaker 1: World, in terms of the world and chocolate. Here's what's
Speaker 1: made our agenda for today. A Hollywood elder has unloaded
Speaker 1: his unflattering opinions on everyone from Margot Robbie to Johnny
Speaker 1: Depp and we want to know where are where are
Speaker 1: the grumpy old women?
Speaker 4: Plus Donald Trump keeps saying horrifying things, But we might
Speaker 4: have a bit of an antidote for you.
Speaker 3: And the rumor mill is on fire with Taylor and
Speaker 3: Travis's wedding plans. But what's true and more importantly, what
Speaker 3: do we think is true?
Speaker 1: Some predictions, yes, some random and rogue predictions. But first,
Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie went back to work this week. She's the
Speaker 1: Australian born American TV host. She hosts The Today Show
Speaker 1: in the US, and her mother disappeared in really shocking
Speaker 1: and distressing circumstances several months ago now and now Savannah
Speaker 1: has finally gone back to work.
Speaker 2: She said.
Speaker 1: She sat down at the desk and she said, here
Speaker 1: we go, ready or not, Let's do the news. She
Speaker 1: was wearing yellow, which is generally seen to be a
Speaker 1: symbol of, you know, waiting for missing people.
Speaker 2: To come back.
Speaker 1: Her co hosts were wearing yellow ribbons, which is the same.
Speaker 1: There were yellow flowers, and there were people outside the
Speaker 1: studio who were all holding up signs and wishing her well,
Speaker 1: and she went out at one point of the broadcast
Speaker 1: to greet them.
Speaker 2: And this is a little bit of what happened.
Speaker 4: And these signs are so beautiful. You guys have been
Speaker 4: so beautiful. I received so many letters, so much kindness
Speaker 4: to me and my family, and we feel it, we
Speaker 4: feel your prayers. So thank you so much. Every day
Speaker 4: every day.
Speaker 1: There have been no leads in that case since that
Speaker 1: really shocking vision that we reported on at the time
Speaker 1: of a masked man being caught on the ring camera
Speaker 1: of Savannah Guthrie's mother's door. No leads at all, and
Speaker 1: so Savannah Guthrie like, after two months, going okay, I'm
Speaker 1: going back to work. It's incredibly brave because there's so
Speaker 1: much attention piled on her and you can only imagine
Speaker 1: the conversation she's having constantly. But it made me think
Speaker 1: of how many people when you go through something awful,
Speaker 1: whether it's an illness, treatment, loss, grief, like there is
Speaker 1: a point at which you have to go back to work,
Speaker 1: Like you have to go back and you're not going
Speaker 1: to get a ticker take parade for it, and you're
Speaker 1: going to have to deal with the sort of sympathetic
Speaker 1: looks from your coworkers, and you're going to have to
Speaker 1: push on through. And it just made me think, like
Speaker 1: she kind of it's so brave to what she's doing.
Speaker 1: And some people have said, oh, well, you know, did
Speaker 1: she have to go back and all those things, but
Speaker 1: it just made me think that's what people do. You
Speaker 1: have to get on with it, right, and we just
Speaker 1: want to say enormous love to you if you're going
Speaker 1: through something shitty at the moment. I think Savannah Guthrie
Speaker 1: shows an extraordinary amount of bravery that actually lots of
Speaker 1: us have to exhibit every day.
Speaker 3: There's a lot going on in the world right now
Speaker 3: which we will get to, but I think it's important
Speaker 3: that we pause and acknowledge a water tight and high
Speaker 3: stakes news story. There are rumors that Taylor Swift and
Speaker 3: Travis Kelsey's wedding will take place in the middle of
Speaker 3: the year, which is the US summer, specifically on June thirteenth.
Speaker 3: Where do these rumors come from?
Speaker 2: I mean, we know they're getting married, right, I do know.
Speaker 1: She told us she posted the picture the English teacher, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the pe teacher or whatever. It was something something, Yeah,
Speaker 1: in the school cafeteria.
Speaker 3: We assumed, Yeah, we've assumed it's twenty twenty six. You
Speaker 3: assume you might have a summer wedding. Rhode Island's lovely
Speaker 3: in June.
Speaker 2: She's got a holiday house. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So there have been headlines all over the place in
Speaker 3: the last few days, predictions about bridesmaids and esthetics and
Speaker 3: the wedding dress designer. And you'd hope with all those
Speaker 3: headlines that there would be some solid information that it's
Speaker 3: based on. I mean, I did so. I did a
Speaker 3: bit of a deep dive.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 3: An Instagram account called Wedding Chicks that links vendors, planners,
Speaker 3: and locations together for people's weddings, posted a carousel a
Speaker 3: few days ago and the first slide reads save the date,
Speaker 3: Taylor and Travis are getting married on June thirteenth. The
Speaker 3: next slide reads date significance, but it's missing a C,
Speaker 3: so it really says date significance, which is how we
Speaker 3: know this is an excellent source. It turns out the
Speaker 3: entire already of the evidence for this claim is thirteen
Speaker 3: is Taylor's lucky number.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's a lot of numerologies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Kansas City Chiefs are not playing on that day.
Speaker 5: That's I mean, well that is important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he does need to be there.
Speaker 3: He needs to be there, and probably so do his teammates.
Speaker 3: In fact, they have a mini camp from June nine
Speaker 3: to eleven. How convenient because it will be over by
Speaker 3: the thirteenth. Guys, this is all the evidence.
Speaker 4: No, but I also heard that there was a rumor
Speaker 4: that she had had to pay someone who was having
Speaker 4: a wedding at the fancy Rhode Island place that she
Speaker 4: was having the wedding on the same day.
Speaker 3: Well, on that post, there was a comment from a
Speaker 3: wedding planner who said, I'm the wedding planner for the rumored.
Speaker 5: Place where she's getting married, and there.
Speaker 3: Is a bride and it ain't Taylor, and I thought,
Speaker 3: but that's something you'd say if your bride was Taylor.
Speaker 2: It's true, don't We're going to have to put up this.
Speaker 4: If you're a wedding planner for Taylor Swift sweating, you're
Speaker 4: really like just posting red herrings in Instagram comments.
Speaker 3: But then a photographer commented and said that the whole
Speaker 3: area is meant to be shut down for that weekend.
Speaker 1: About Taylor Swift is she commits to a bit right.
Speaker 1: We all know that she likes to drop red herrings everywhere.
Speaker 1: Easter eggs, as I think we call them these days,
Speaker 1: are like clues and trails to things, and she's got
Speaker 1: decoys and there are pretend Taylor's and she famously arrives
Speaker 1: at a concert in the back of a bin like
Speaker 1: she knows how to decoy. So I reckon she is
Speaker 1: sending us to that location.
Speaker 3: Exactly, and she can keep a bloody secret. She can
Speaker 3: do something, so.
Speaker 2: Can her friends.
Speaker 4: Yes, what I've heard is that she and Travis have
Speaker 4: really slimmed down the guest list and it's now down
Speaker 4: to only one hundred and fifty Grandma they.
Speaker 1: Originally want to wait, do you think, well, I'm just
Speaker 1: saying she's famously invited him and said We're not having
Speaker 1: one of those little ones.
Speaker 2: I'm inviting one.
Speaker 1: I like, it's like, you know, until you start seeing
Speaker 1: it all coming in and then like maybe one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty maybe Graham not.
Speaker 4: Who were the bridesmaid discussions? Okay, Selena?
Speaker 3: The rumors about bridesmaids were Selena Gomez, which absolutely, yes, Yes,
Speaker 3: Taylor was a bridesmaid for Selena, wasn't she.
Speaker 4: I think she was kind of like an unofficial Yeah.
Speaker 4: I don't think they were wearing matching dresses, but.
Speaker 3: She was featured heavily. The is it Ham Orheim?
Speaker 4: Oh I don't.
Speaker 2: Sisters mates?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And then another prediction from this random wedding website was
Speaker 3: gig had Did And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: no no no, we need to differentiate between who is
Speaker 3: seriously in Taylor's in a circle and who is just
Speaker 3: a modelg Did is a model who is friends with Taylor,
Speaker 3: but no.
Speaker 2: She has famous.
Speaker 4: Used the question is Blake going to be a bride?
Speaker 3: I know, I know because I reckon pre all the controversy. Yes,
Speaker 3: but now Taylor's just a little bit too savvy.
Speaker 4: I think went through focus.
Speaker 2: I want to know.
Speaker 1: I want to know what we think with all our
Speaker 1: wisdom about how much we are really going to know
Speaker 1: about this wedding when it happens. Because we've just seen
Speaker 1: an excellent example of a very high profile couple just
Speaker 1: sneaking off and getting married. Tom Holland I always getson
Speaker 1: and I love him. I don't know why Tom Holland
Speaker 1: and Zendaya. There doesn't seem to be any doubt about it.
Speaker 1: They've been married. We don't know when. We don't know where,
Speaker 1: we don't know what was worn, we don't know who went,
Speaker 1: We don't know what kind of pace they had.
Speaker 4: We only found out that they were married because law Roach,
Speaker 4: a stylist, happened to drop the news that they were
Speaker 4: married on a red carpet.
Speaker 2: And she's wearing a ring and whatever.
Speaker 4: And she's been wearing like something old, something new, something borrowed,
Speaker 4: something blues right. Her press to her for the drama.
Speaker 1: But she They have illustrated that two very high profile
Speaker 1: people can pull off a completely secret non like not
Speaker 1: even paparazzi outside wedding.
Speaker 4: But that's Taylor's worst night.
Speaker 1: That's what I want to discuss is she's rich enough
Speaker 1: to do that. She could get married in a hermetically
Speaker 1: sealed bubble in space, like she's a billionaire, she'd do
Speaker 1: what she wants?
Speaker 2: Will she do that?
Speaker 4: No, she wants. The whole point of this is that
Speaker 4: we all know she's getting married. She's made that very clear.
Speaker 4: Her entire herve to this point is arguably about getting
Speaker 4: married as the end point of the narrative. Wouldn't you
Speaker 4: say yes?
Speaker 3: Since love story it really has been.
Speaker 1: But you could let people know that you're getting married
Speaker 1: on your terms. Like a lot of celebrities, the only
Speaker 1: way you find out they got married is because they
Speaker 1: drop the pictures after the event. And then there are
Speaker 1: other celebrity weddings that you know it's happening because they
Speaker 1: are a helicopter circling the island. They're a paparazzi everywhere,
Speaker 1: all the famous people are arriving.
Speaker 2: Like which version of that is Taylor going for?
Speaker 4: And Selena Gomez, for example, did kind of keep her
Speaker 4: a wedding largely under wraps. There were helicopters circling, but
Speaker 4: they didn't get many photos. The photos that we have
Speaker 4: are the ones that Selena wanted us to see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she did a fun Taylor will definitely do that, right,
Speaker 1: She's an absolute master.
Speaker 4: Think about when Jack Antonoff got married, her longtime firstwhile
Speaker 4: producer got married to Margaret Quali and they got married
Speaker 4: also in New England. But the problem was that Taylor
Speaker 4: just completely ended up dominating the proceedings. Her fans were there,
Speaker 4: they were taking photos of Taylor. It kind of, by
Speaker 4: all accounts ruined things for Margaret on her big day.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, Taylor has to be at her own wedding.
Speaker 4: She does.
Speaker 5: She does.
Speaker 3: And something that actually got me thinking because on kind
Speaker 3: of on the record a publicist.
Speaker 5: It was probably a publicist.
Speaker 3: Somebody spoke to people in August last year and said
Speaker 3: it would be a private, low key event, right, And
Speaker 3: the more I think about it, the more I'm like,
Speaker 3: absolutely not. And I read this article in New York
Speaker 3: magazine about how having a Vogue cover so good for
Speaker 3: your wedding is more prized every Yes, and the theories
Speaker 3: about why are so compelling. So one quote from a
Speaker 3: luxury event planner says, the new social currency is much
Speaker 3: more about showing that you're a creative person than that
Speaker 3: you're a rich person. I think Taylor wants to create something,
Speaker 3: it'll be your work of art.
Speaker 1: Oh, it will be full of Easter eggs, and it'll
Speaker 1: be full of little nods to this and that. The
Speaker 1: thing that was great about that article is so celebrities
Speaker 1: have a few choices when it comes to how public
Speaker 1: to go. So back in my days of being tabloid
Speaker 1: magazine lady, we did loads of weddings. We did Carl
Speaker 1: Sanderland's first wedding, we did Nat Bass's wedding, Ricky Lee's wedding.
Speaker 1: We did weddings all the time. And obviously you pay
Speaker 1: money for that. So you do a deal where you say,
Speaker 1: we want the engagement, we want the wedding. Honeymoon would
Speaker 1: be great, you know, but that comes with cash. But
Speaker 1: what you get for that cash kind of ruins the
Speaker 1: wedding in lots of ways. And for a start, you
Speaker 1: have to have journalists and photographers at your wedding that
Speaker 1: you didn't choose. You have to be approving pictures on
Speaker 1: your wedding night, you have to agree to do all that.
Speaker 1: You have to do an interview on the day, you
Speaker 1: have to do all that stuff. So that kind of
Speaker 1: old school selling your wedding is obviously way below Taylor's
Speaker 1: pay grades. She ain't doing that, but the Vogue version
Speaker 1: of selling your wedding is similar, probably though you're paying
Speaker 1: Vogue rather than the other way around. Because in that
Speaker 1: article Chloe Marle, who's the editor of Vogue, but she's
Speaker 1: worked there a long time, and she is credited as
Speaker 1: bringing the weddings back to Vogue as being a big
Speaker 1: selling points, as they're often their top stories. She said,
Speaker 1: we run it like a military operation, and we will
Speaker 1: have those pictures up within hours. So she talked about
Speaker 1: Venus William's wedding. I think that no one knew it
Speaker 1: was happening. It got married on the Friday, The pictures
Speaker 1: were up by the Sunday, So again somebody in your
Speaker 1: party has to spend that time photo approvals, back and
Speaker 1: forth with your publicists. We like that, we like that,
Speaker 1: but to have your wedding in Vogue is massive status
Speaker 1: and loads of celebrities do that and non celebrities too.
Speaker 1: Do you think that Taylor will do that the Vogue
Speaker 1: wedding as as the vehicle to get the fans the
Speaker 1: pictures or do you think she'll go directly.
Speaker 3: I think she'll go direct but I do think that
Speaker 3: what Vogue has tapped into in terms of wedding content,
Speaker 3: and I guess the resurgence of how important it is
Speaker 3: for identity and how it's an extension of personal brand.
Speaker 3: I think Taylor will be tapping into all of that,
Speaker 3: because there was a quote that said, the wedding planning
Speaker 3: process can bring up that little girl in the cafeteria
Speaker 3: who really wants to be seen. This is the ultimate
Speaker 3: version of that. And I think there's a little bit
Speaker 3: of Taylor Swift who's like, I'm marrying the jock and
Speaker 3: I want everybody to see.
Speaker 5: But there was also I just had to add this
Speaker 5: tidbit that was in the article.
Speaker 3: A woman in the fashion industry apparently tried to get
Speaker 3: her wedding in Vogue and got rejected, and apparently she
Speaker 3: burned bridges with a lot of the friends who participated
Speaker 3: in her wedding, blamed the fiasco on all her guests,
Speaker 3: and then she checked herself into a trauma retreat.
Speaker 1: So this guy in there is quite just saying, we
Speaker 1: don't do lake Como passe. If you get Marion like Coma,
Speaker 1: you won't make it into Vogue anymore.
Speaker 4: We don't like it.
Speaker 1: I didn't exactly we don't like castles in Scotland. We
Speaker 1: don't like anything that ordinary people have started doing.
Speaker 2: You're not going to get it.
Speaker 3: They're like, if we've done the Cotswolds six times, I'm
Speaker 3: not going to do it at seventh.
Speaker 5: Gosh.
Speaker 3: But no, I think Taylor will come direct fans. I
Speaker 3: think that there will be some great Instagram content, but
Speaker 3: I think she'll keep it a secret until it happens.
Speaker 2: I think they should live.
Speaker 1: You know how, every time there's a royal wedding, the
Speaker 1: argument for why the nation is paying for this so
Speaker 1: like obviously Harry and Megs, William and Catherine is like,
Speaker 1: you know, the security and the flowers in London's closed down,
Speaker 1: and it is always it's great for national morale and
Speaker 1: it's always like things have been tough lately, there's been
Speaker 1: a recession. Whatever, it brings everyone together for a reason
Speaker 1: to be happy. What could be better at this moment
Speaker 1: of global international crisis than for Taylor and Travis to
Speaker 1: just throw it open live stream?
Speaker 2: Come on in?
Speaker 4: Did you see that? In the gatest round of royal revelations,
Speaker 4: apparently the Queen said that she thought Megan's dress was
Speaker 4: too white. Yes, yes, So what Hugh White will tailor dress.
Speaker 3: I know she'll, she'll bloody get it right. I mean,
Speaker 3: she's worn so many designers, and she's worn quite a
Speaker 3: few wedding dresses in her film clips.
Speaker 1: Because she's dressed up as a bride many times. But me,
Speaker 1: Oriel exactly, Taylor Swifts not like me Oriol don't come out.
Speaker 4: In a moment. Is there anything hotter than someone doing
Speaker 4: their job really, really well? Australians woke up this morning
Speaker 4: to the news that Donald Trump had said something even
Speaker 4: more upsetting than usual. He said, a whole civilization will
Speaker 4: die tonight, never to be brought back again. His threat
Speaker 4: of mass destruction and more crimes was of course directed
Speaker 4: towards Iran, which two days ago on Easter he'd also
Speaker 4: threatened with total destruction and hell. By the end of
Speaker 4: the day US time, and by the time we're recording this,
Speaker 4: it looks like the immediate crisis has been averted. Trump
Speaker 4: has said that he and Iran's leaders have agreed to
Speaker 4: a ceasefire, and the terms of that are being clarified.
Speaker 4: It does look like the Strait of Hormoots, which is
Speaker 4: where all the where twenty percent of the world's oil
Speaker 4: is being held up. It looks like that will be
Speaker 4: opened under Iran's control for at least two weeks. A
Speaker 4: lot of other details being worked out, and you can
Speaker 4: hear more about that on today's Quickie. But I guess
Speaker 4: I just wanted to say that it's really hard to
Speaker 4: know what to say when someone says something like this,
Speaker 4: When someone threatens mass murder and war crimes, and he is,
Speaker 4: rather than your very looney Tunes relative, the most powerful
Speaker 4: person in the world, and I don't have anything profound
Speaker 4: to say about it, except for the fact that it
Speaker 4: really makes you feel upset and scared, and like, if
Speaker 4: this was someone who was in your life saying these things,
Speaker 4: you would probably look into getting them some sort of
Speaker 4: professional help.
Speaker 1: It's sometimes worth remembering. And I know this is, like,
Speaker 1: you know, not an original thought, but that this is
Speaker 1: not how leaders used to speak, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like tweeting out capital letters. There were lots of swear
Speaker 1: words in the last lot over Easter. There are just
Speaker 1: all these direct threats, and the thing that's tricky about
Speaker 1: it is you kind of get a bit blind to
Speaker 1: it in a way. I woke up to that this
Speaker 1: morning and I was just but I also thought, well,
Speaker 1: I know he's going to back away from it because
Speaker 1: he always does, like he says outrageous thing. And then
Speaker 1: you pointed out to me that no, he doesn't always,
Speaker 1: and the chaos is the point. But it's this foul
Speaker 1: mouthed diplomacy, whatever you want to call it out, what
Speaker 1: it's just, it's not. It's so disturbing because it's just
Speaker 1: reset the way that all of the things work.
Speaker 3: And it reminds you that other politicians had very different
Speaker 3: strategies for very good reason in the past, because that
Speaker 3: maybe a world crisis would happen, or you'd start a walk.
Speaker 4: They tend to think through the consequences. They tend to
Speaker 4: use measured language. They'd be careful about threatening entire populations
Speaker 4: with mass murder.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 4: But we don't live in that world anymore.
Speaker 3: No, And I think Trump's general vibe at the moment
Speaker 3: has us turning towards competency pawn.
Speaker 2: What's that so?
Speaker 3: A couple of months ago, an article in The Guardian
Speaker 3: introduced the term, writing, when it feels as though the
Speaker 3: world is moments away from any number of disasters, there
Speaker 3: is nothing hotter than watching someone do their job really,
Speaker 3: really well. And this particular article referenced the Pit, which
Speaker 3: has a massive invested audience. It has won so many awards.
Speaker 1: Hospital drama that stars the er guy.
Speaker 3: Correct, Yes, and I cannot turn away from these doctors
Speaker 3: in Pennsylvania who doing their jobs to a high degree
Speaker 3: of success. And you should just like the way that
Speaker 3: they talk and they know and it's it's science and
Speaker 3: there's they're making decisions based on thought.
Speaker 5: It's so hot.
Speaker 4: They might not even be the best doctors that ever existed.
Speaker 4: The point is that they approached their job with a
Speaker 4: level of seriousness that feels devoid in real life.
Speaker 1: This is like the outlauder who said in the group
Speaker 1: the other day that they'd started watching the West.
Speaker 2: Wing, and I used to. I was an obsessive.
Speaker 1: West Wing fan for a period of time when I
Speaker 1: was on maternity leave. It was my breastfeeding watch. I
Speaker 1: know you're supposed to be communing with your baby, but
Speaker 1: I was communing with Jed Bartlett and watching those pretend
Speaker 1: politicians and pretend you know, back roomors like walk and talks.
Speaker 2: Of these crises.
Speaker 1: Everything was quicker, but they were serious people, the best
Speaker 1: and brightest. That used to be a given.
Speaker 4: Well, it's probably part of the appeal of Taylor Swift
Speaker 4: as well, because, in addition to writing amazing songs and
Speaker 4: performing them and doing a sold out, record breaking world tour,
Speaker 4: that recent documentary that took us behind the scenes of
Speaker 4: the Era's tour was really designed to impress on us
Speaker 4: how much work goes into making it look effortless and
Speaker 4: making the audience have a fun time. And Taylor Swift
Speaker 4: is someone who has given us competency porn.
Speaker 5: Really, it really has.
Speaker 3: And Julia Baird wrote an article for the Sidney Morning
Speaker 3: Herald earlier this month and the headline was I'm hooked
Speaker 3: on competency porn.
Speaker 5: I wish our leaders were.
Speaker 3: Too, And it was basically about watching the frustration of
Speaker 3: watching politicians make some terrible decisions as opposed to when
Speaker 3: you come across in life an efficient nurse or a
Speaker 3: council worker, or a banker or a baker who just
Speaker 3: knows what they're doing, and it just really Oh.
Speaker 5: But the other thing that has.
Speaker 3: Me thinking about competency porn at the moment, and I
Speaker 3: think that it is a reason why the world has
Speaker 3: tuned into it so hard, is the current Artemis mission,
Speaker 3: and they're just casually traveling deeper into space than anyone
Speaker 3: has ever been before. It's humanity's first journey towards the
Speaker 3: Moon since nineteen seventy two. And I think it really
Speaker 3: is for me in a world where, especially in American politics,
Speaker 3: there has been such a rejection of science, of objective truth,
Speaker 3: You then watch something like that and think, so many
Speaker 3: things have to go right, and so many people have
Speaker 3: to be patient and put their egos aside, and you
Speaker 3: can't be a narcissist, and you can't do anything rogue.
Speaker 2: You just have to be.
Speaker 3: Careful and a team player and a team player. And
Speaker 3: without all of the science, the rocket does not go
Speaker 3: to the moon.
Speaker 5: It just doesn't.
Speaker 3: And I thought that the fact that Trump has been
Speaker 3: distracted by other things might have been good for our spaceship,
Speaker 3: because I reckon he would have come and he would
Speaker 3: have said, let's put a sticker on it, and they
Speaker 3: would have said, yeah, so everything has to be really
Speaker 3: and he would have been like, no, I have some
Speaker 3: rogue ideas of how to.
Speaker 2: Let's paint it goal.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons he hasn't come is
Speaker 1: he possibly doesn't really approve of it, right. I think
Speaker 1: that it's what it's been interesting. I've surprised myself about
Speaker 1: how much I've loved watching the vision coming out of
Speaker 1: this this space mission, the plant, Like if you've got
Speaker 1: a kid in your life who loves space, and lots
Speaker 1: of kids do. When the pictures of the planets in
Speaker 1: the in our galaxy are so beautiful and it is
Speaker 1: so hypnotic, and seeing the pictures of the Moon out
Speaker 1: of the window and the Earth from the window, I've
Speaker 1: absolutely loved it. I found it very soothing. If I
Speaker 1: was a completely different person with a different brain and
Speaker 1: like thirty years that would be my I would love
Speaker 1: to be on that spaceship. But it's so hypnotic and gorgeous.
Speaker 1: But it is costing something like one hundred billion dollars.
Speaker 4: But better spending it on that than.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing is is this?
Speaker 1: The other thing that's really kind of interesting about this
Speaker 1: is obviously this has been planning for a really long time.
Speaker 1: Nine years for this particular ship to go up?
Speaker 4: Is that right? I was wondering why it was happening
Speaker 4: now in Trump's second time.
Speaker 1: Exactly, so nine years for this particular ship to go up.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you call them ships. I'm just
Speaker 1: doing that craft, not like a cruise liner. But I
Speaker 1: don't think there's a bar cocktails with umbrellas in them.
Speaker 1: But you know, nine years for this particular mission, but
Speaker 1: actually the whole thing has been in train for nearly
Speaker 1: twenty and it's got these serious missions about like trying
Speaker 1: to maybe make Moon a landing place to go further
Speaker 1: and all this stuff, and so they're doing lots of science,
Speaker 1: even though we just like the pretty pitch and the
Speaker 1: stories about the toilet. But it is costing a lot
Speaker 1: of money. So some people are saying, well, you know,
Speaker 1: that money better spent elsewhere. We've got a lot of
Speaker 1: issues on Earth climate change, dada da. I understand that,
Speaker 1: but there's something about that or yeah that I don't know,
Speaker 1: it feels really necessarily.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good point, Holly. But then again, independent
Speaker 4: analysts have said that by day six of the Iran
Speaker 4: War it was costing eleven billion dollars already.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got some audio of the moment that the
Speaker 3: spacecraft actually went further than humanity had ever gone before.
Speaker 6: Yeah, from cabin of integrity here as we surpass the
Speaker 6: furthest distance humans have ever traveled from planet Earth. We
Speaker 6: do so in honoring the extraordinary efforts and feats of
Speaker 6: our predecessors in human space exploration, but we most importantly
Speaker 6: choose this moment to challenge this generation in the next
Speaker 6: to make sure this record is not long lived.
Speaker 2: They're just so reasonable.
Speaker 1: I would, as I say, I would take that challenge
Speaker 1: if I was twelve. I just need to sidebar on
Speaker 1: one thing that trickles down from what you started off
Speaker 1: by saying, Amelia, which is how unsettling and stressful the
Speaker 1: Trump rhetoric is. I guess yesterday morning, I filled up
Speaker 1: my car really early. I was coming up to Sydney
Speaker 1: for work and I had to use the car, and
Speaker 1: I filled my car up really early at this little
Speaker 1: petrol station near me. There's a woman who manages that station.
Speaker 1: She's always there, she knows all the locals, she's really friendly,
Speaker 1: and when I pulled in there at five thirty yesterday
Speaker 1: morning after the long weekend, she was already visibly upset
Speaker 1: by the amount of abuse she had copped from people
Speaker 1: pulling in and filling up and seeing the petrol prices.
Speaker 1: And I just think that it's so understandable. As we
Speaker 1: talked about last week, it's so understandable how stressed and
Speaker 1: anxious we all are. It's so understandable, how you know,
Speaker 1: coupled with the human awful, humanitarian cost and then the
Speaker 1: very literal cost on our back pockets and what's going
Speaker 1: to happen, and we don't know what the future is
Speaker 1: and how long. It's really understandable that everybody's so stressed.
Speaker 1: But I just seeing the embodiment of that in this
Speaker 1: woman who's just doing her job, who's getting yelled at
Speaker 1: by frustrated people every day.
Speaker 2: It just feels like something we've just got to not do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you see it in It's a big plot point
Speaker 3: in the pit, the fact that people take out so
Speaker 3: much of their anger towards the health care system, on
Speaker 3: healthcare workers who are so competent for the most part.
Speaker 3: But of course people are furious about the fact that
Speaker 3: they can't afford healthcare or that they have to wait
Speaker 3: a ridiculously long time because there aren't resources. But it's
Speaker 3: the same thing. It's the channeling of our frustration it
Speaker 3: incompetency at the wrong people.
Speaker 4: That's true. And also maybe we just have to somehow
Speaker 4: channel our energy and attention less towards the people who
Speaker 4: are tapping out true social posts on the toilet, and
Speaker 4: more towards the people who are literally going where no
Speaker 4: humans have gone before.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah, look, I suggested that you should go to the
Speaker 7: quickie if you want more on what Trump said today,
Speaker 7: But if you want more on a phenomenon called chicken.
Speaker 4: Nick, I need you to stick around for out loud day.
Speaker 2: Right here.
Speaker 4: A phrase has been coined for this very familiar phenomenon
Speaker 4: where you're eating some chicken and all of a sudden
Speaker 4: you are utterly repulsed by it. Have either of you
Speaker 4: had this experience? Yes, I think it's a universal non
Speaker 4: vegetarian human experience to have. People are taking to TikTok
Speaker 4: because that's what you do. You have to take to
Speaker 4: TikTok to emmortalize the exact moment that they experienced. Chickennick.
Speaker 4: Some of them have even extended it to egg ick.
Speaker 4: Sorry poultry. Not having a good week here.
Speaker 1: These are two of my main protein sources. Do you
Speaker 1: know how I'm protein maxing.
Speaker 3: Every now and then you just get a little bit
Speaker 3: of egg and you go, oh, this is egg.
Speaker 5: It really hits you that it's egg.
Speaker 4: Well, sometimes someone puts chicken and egg together in a
Speaker 4: salad and you just, you know, like some kind of
Speaker 4: channibal or something. Look, the good news is you can
Speaker 4: do something about it. Professor of psychobiological psychology in the UK.
Speaker 4: His name is Lorenzo Stafford, and he's got an action
Speaker 4: plan for you. He says that the ick is a
Speaker 4: disgust response which can be reprogrammed, So don't worry if
Speaker 4: you get the chickenick. Here's what you got to do. First,
Speaker 4: try preparing a chicken a different way. Lorenzo. That's not
Speaker 4: easy to say if I'm halfway through a sandwich, but okay,
Speaker 4: I'll take that on your advisement. He says, use breast
Speaker 4: instead of sighe for instance.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I so agree thighs always.
Speaker 4: Do you think thies are more chickenick? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they got more pink.
Speaker 1: But foodies will tell you they they always always taste better.
Speaker 4: Yeah. The Japanese love their chicken with a bit of pink.
Speaker 4: Chicken SMI is also a thing.
Speaker 6: Anyway.
Speaker 4: The second thing Lorenzo says is avoid having to deal
Speaker 4: with rod chicken. I love this tip from Laurenzo. He's
Speaker 4: basically saying, have someone else make you did and then
Speaker 4: you won't get chicken.
Speaker 5: How's the chicken getting cooked?
Speaker 1: If you never coming to my house on a Tuesday night,
Speaker 1: make the noodle soup.
Speaker 4: He says, you'll be back to enjoying chicken in no time.
Speaker 4: But this just got me thinking also about ick in general,
Speaker 4: because this was a plot point in season two if
Speaker 4: Nobody Wants This. You might remember there was an episode
Speaker 4: where Noah, who was Adam Brody, was trying to be
Speaker 4: a little bit too charming and then Kristen Bell's character
Speaker 4: Joanne all of a sudden decided she couldn't stand him.
Speaker 4: It's funny because season two of Nobody Wants This, I
Speaker 4: think gave us all the ick. So that's sort of
Speaker 4: a bit matter, isn't it. The Daily Mail put together
Speaker 4: a list of other things which give people the ick.
Speaker 4: According to TikTok, some of these include calling wine veno, which, yeah,
Speaker 4: running after a ping pong ball, which I take offense
Speaker 4: because I'm very good at ping pong, and an awkward
Speaker 4: bowling technique. Yeah.
Speaker 3: To add well, I think in terms of the ick,
Speaker 3: i'd extend that to anyone wearing bowling shoes.
Speaker 5: You know, when you go bowling, it's never it's always.
Speaker 4: And just putting your foot into the ball.
Speaker 3: And it's warm and you don't know who's worn it before.
Speaker 3: It just it's just not it. Jesse's husband, I'm sure
Speaker 3: she's brought up on this show, he says, chow.
Speaker 4: And I used to work with someone, a guy who
Speaker 4: used to call everyone a chum, and I'm just excentral.
Speaker 1: You know, on the chicken for a second, is I
Speaker 1: make a lot of chicken at home, and you know
Speaker 1: there is with breast, as discussed the white there is
Speaker 1: a very fine line between like dick and chewy as hell,
Speaker 1: and you've got to hit that right on. And you
Speaker 1: know who knows how to do that? The patrons say
Speaker 1: of this show's recipes, Nagi following I made a naggy
Speaker 1: chicken recipe the other week. It was like one with
Speaker 1: the crunchy sauce or whatever. And she was like cook
Speaker 1: for exactly three minutes on each side and then resting
Speaker 1: for two and I was like three minutes on each
Speaker 1: That's very specific, but I decided to do exactly what
Speaker 1: I was told, absolutely perfect juice.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 4: See, I live in fear of the chicken neck, I'll
Speaker 4: be honest. It kind of dictates my life. Choices, and
Speaker 4: I will never get a chicken salad because you never
Speaker 4: know did they prepare the chicken in.
Speaker 3: A way that avoided right because during during pregnancy, I'm
Speaker 3: not meant to For example, cafe downstairs has chicken sandwiches,
Speaker 3: I'm not meant to eat one of those chicken sandwiches
Speaker 3: because the chicken's been sitting out there for ages. Maybe
Speaker 3: something she would listeria. I'm going to be real, guys,
Speaker 3: I've been pretty fast and loose, and then I did
Speaker 3: end up in hospital food poising and I know it
Speaker 3: was chicken, and I know where it was from, and
Speaker 3: I knew the moment I bid into it and I
Speaker 3: kept it.
Speaker 2: Oh, the didn't put you off.
Speaker 4: It didn't ask too hungry.
Speaker 1: Okay, you either know who Brian Cox is or you don't.
Speaker 1: The defining factor will be whether or not you are
Speaker 1: a succession person. Probably because he is most famous for
Speaker 1: being the seventy nine year old Scottish actor who plays
Speaker 1: Logan Roy. Not true Rupert Murdoch at all, certainly not
Speaker 1: Rupert Murdoch at all. He obviously has done loads of
Speaker 1: other things, but he is that catapulted him from respected
Speaker 1: character actor to super famous. Always interviewed and asked what
Speaker 1: he thinks about everything actor? Right, And he was all
Speaker 1: over the internet this past weekend because he did a
Speaker 1: Sunday Times interview in the UK. And to be honest,
Speaker 1: actually when you read the interview, he didn't say all
Speaker 1: these things in the interview. It's just that the journalist
Speaker 1: was like Brian Cox says what he thinks and went
Speaker 1: and trolled trawled his memoir and every interview and he
Speaker 1: has said a lot of things and then he added
Speaker 1: to them in the interview, So it wasn't like the
Speaker 1: interview was all of them. But what did he say?
Speaker 1: I just want you to imagine while I'll tell you
Speaker 1: what he said, these words coming out of the mouth
Speaker 1: of like a female equivalent to him, So like a
Speaker 1: respected elder actor like say Helen Mirren, Johnny Depp is
Speaker 1: so overblown, so over range. Edward Norton is a pain
Speaker 1: in the ass. Kevin Spacey's a stupid, stupid man. Ian McKellen,
Speaker 1: that's Gandolf people. His acting is not to my text.
Speaker 3: And did he say that when he was like co starring.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he doesn't care what he has said oftentimes about
Speaker 1: Jeremy Strong, who obviously is in succession his very respected actor,
Speaker 1: but famously method, and Brian Cox has no time for method.
Speaker 1: He said, it's fucking annoying and it's American shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, that's what he said about that.
Speaker 1: In the Sunday Times piece, he was asked about Wuthering Heights,
Speaker 1: which he hasn't seen. He likes the old version with
Speaker 1: Merle Oberon, but he hasn't seen the latest Woman Jacob
Speaker 1: and Margo. He went into a fake Australian accent, he said,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to do this terribly. Basically, he went
Speaker 1: into a fake Australian accident, went.
Speaker 4: Keith Cliff, it's me, Kathie.
Speaker 2: How are you doing? Keith? Alright, yeah, I'm all right.
Speaker 1: And then he said Margot Robbie is far too beautiful
Speaker 1: for that role. I mean, I think there should be
Speaker 1: something more of gipsy about her, but it's wrong of
Speaker 1: me to judge. It may have been a brilliant film
Speaker 1: too late, Brian, it's wrong of.
Speaker 5: Me to judge anyway. I all Australian, so what.
Speaker 1: I need to know because like this is just like
Speaker 1: the classic grumpy old man in inverted commas, who's like
Speaker 1: he says himself, I mean, my wife is always saying
Speaker 1: to me, Brian, be careful, be careful, But I think,
Speaker 1: fuck it, I don't want to be careful anymore.
Speaker 2: I'll be eighty this year.
Speaker 1: I'm going to say what I want. Can we imagine
Speaker 1: a world where a Helen Merren, a Meryl Streep, a
Speaker 1: Dame Judy Dench just unloads on all her female contemporaries
Speaker 1: like this? Can you imagine what would happen?
Speaker 5: Never?
Speaker 3: Like it just would never ever happen. The other thing
Speaker 3: is like those are kind of openly controversial, Like a
Speaker 3: lot of those are a little bit funny. Like I
Speaker 3: remember seeing what he said about Jeremy Strong and the
Speaker 3: method acting and thinking that's hilarious because that is the
Speaker 3: difference between Americans and Brits, that Brits are like, stop
Speaker 3: being so wanky.
Speaker 5: It's just a job.
Speaker 3: That is honestly a funny observation. However, he has in
Speaker 3: that there's a line about Kevin Spacey being an idiot.
Speaker 3: He's defended Kevin Spacey a few times, and like he said,
Speaker 3: he's an old friend of mine, all right, Kevin did
Speaker 3: certain things. He also did a lot of extraordinary work,
Speaker 3: and I find that really petty. I just don't like
Speaker 3: it basically criticizing all the I guess me too stuff
Speaker 3: against someone who seems to have done some pretty disgusting things.
Speaker 3: And I reckon if that you're right, if that was
Speaker 3: a woman, totally different story. I also think if it
Speaker 3: was a younger man, Remember when Matt Damon kept being
Speaker 3: slammed for just saying slightly the wrong thing about me too.
Speaker 3: Like we seem to have moral standards for men who
Speaker 3: I guess are middle aged, and as soon as they
Speaker 3: get old, we go no, no, no, you're good. You
Speaker 3: can be a crazy old grandpa.
Speaker 4: I think that's such an interesting point about the double
Speaker 4: standard holy and like, what would happen if Meryl Streep
Speaker 4: said these things? Because last week Meryl Streep's obviously on
Speaker 4: her press tour right now for Devil Wears prior two,
Speaker 4: for which I've already purchased my ticket, and she was
Speaker 4: in Mexico, and I don't know if you saw this,
Speaker 4: but she went a little bit viral because she and
Speaker 4: Anne Hathaway were being interviewed outside and I guess a
Speaker 4: worker had been tasked with holding an umbrella up to
Speaker 4: deflect the light for them. Meryl stops the interview, turns around,
Speaker 4: pats this man on the shoulder and thanks him for
Speaker 4: his service. That's so different from what we are different.
Speaker 1: And also it made me think because I was like,
Speaker 1: because we're seeing a lot of merrill and this today
Speaker 1: this morning, I woke up to see the Vogue cover
Speaker 1: she's done with Anna Winter, right, so heaven they've done
Speaker 1: all this content for Vogue where they're like in a
Speaker 1: lift together and all this stuff. Obviously promoting Devil West too,
Speaker 1: Anna win Tour. They're both seventy six. Anna Wintour is
Speaker 1: generally considered and discussed all the time as being an
Speaker 1: ice Querrel's streep is seventy six. They are both seventy six.
Speaker 1: In mind, they are, and Anna Wintour is always discussed
Speaker 1: as being a ice queen, a queen bitch, all these things.
Speaker 1: Actually go and try and find her saying something horrible
Speaker 1: about another person.
Speaker 2: And you can't.
Speaker 1: She's made like declarations about like, you know, if your
Speaker 1: competition is better than you, just stress better or whatever.
Speaker 1: And obviously the stories a legendary of the way she
Speaker 1: might treat assistance.
Speaker 2: That's why Devil was prior to exists. But she is not.
Speaker 1: She is generally considered to be a pretty awful person
Speaker 1: in inverted commas, and yet she is not sitting around saying.
Speaker 4: She's not Carl Lagerfeld, who started around saying all sorts
Speaker 4: of offensive things about fat people and people who we
Speaker 4: didn't like the way they dress.
Speaker 1: Because women know intrinsically that if you are caught bitching
Speaker 1: in inverted commas about another woman, that story has such
Speaker 1: legs it will follow you forever, like you cannot be
Speaker 1: seen to criticize other women.
Speaker 4: Okay, Devil's advocate, I reckon our Gwinny as she ages,
Speaker 4: is going to lean into speaking her truth and leaning
Speaker 4: into her power, and maybe she'll be a grumpy old woman.
Speaker 3: Well she used to come she would. I would really
Speaker 3: enjoy that era.
Speaker 4: Because she look she's pretty upfront now about For instance,
Speaker 4: when she started joining the press jo for MRDI Supreme,
Speaker 4: she told people that she claimed not to know who
Speaker 4: Timoth they shallam before they started filming.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wonder if you can say I wonder if the
Speaker 1: rules are that you can say it about men like
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I wonder if like as
Speaker 1: women get they can say, I worked with this guy
Speaker 1: and he was rude to me. I worked with this
Speaker 1: person and they were dismissive. But I wonder if you
Speaker 1: could say about a contemporary of your lives, I don't
Speaker 1: think she's very talented well, or one of the many
Speaker 1: things that Brian said.
Speaker 3: Yes, because I always think we did an episode of
Speaker 3: canceled about Catherine Heigel, and I think about it all
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 2: But she's the only example.
Speaker 3: Oh, she was so brutally canceled literally for being honest
Speaker 3: for five minutes she said a few honest things, so.
Speaker 5: There was a profile.
Speaker 3: And I always find it so interesting that the cancelation
Speaker 3: of Catherine Heigel happened at the exact same time that
Speaker 3: Woody Allen and Harvey Winstein were thriving. But anyway, she
Speaker 3: was asked about the decisions for her character Izzie Stevens
Speaker 3: in Gray's Anatomy, and she basically said that a particular
Speaker 3: storyline was a ratings ploy and it shocked people. It
Speaker 3: wasn't predictable, people didn't see it coming. But she said
Speaker 3: business like, it didn't make sense, and business is business.
Speaker 3: I understand it, but I want there to be some
Speaker 3: cooperation between the business end and.
Speaker 4: The creative end.
Speaker 3: So people saw that as her criticizing Shonda Rhymes. Then
Speaker 3: in the same interview, she was asked about her two
Speaker 3: thousand and seven film Knocked Up, directed by jud Aptao,
Speaker 3: and she said it was a little sexist and outrageous
Speaker 3: that she said that. And she said, it paints the
Speaker 3: women as shrews, as humorless and uptight, and it paints
Speaker 3: the men as lovable, goofy, fun loving guys stoned.
Speaker 4: And I don't know, I think you're overstating a because
Speaker 4: I got another example that's going to ruin this argument. Oh,
Speaker 4: you great Martha Stewart. She has said things about other
Speaker 4: women and we love her for it. For instance, she
Speaker 4: actually criticized Gwyneth Paltrow and said that she was basically
Speaker 4: muscling on it in an area that she didn't know
Speaker 4: about when she is trying to become a homemaking expert.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not bad.
Speaker 1: But Martha is a grumpy old woman. She sends it,
Speaker 1: and please don't at me. I know that old woman,
Speaker 1: you know, But like, in the context of this conversation,
Speaker 1: that is not a bad one.
Speaker 2: She says what she thinks allegedly.
Speaker 4: Now, I don't think that Brian Cox is going to
Speaker 4: be on the cover of Sports illustrated his kiss your
Speaker 4: face anytime soon. So maybe if you are a quote
Speaker 4: unquote grumpy old woman, you also have to be attractive
Speaker 4: enough to cover sports illustrations.
Speaker 3: But with that said, I do think culturally we have
Speaker 3: a soft spot for a certain type of woman who's
Speaker 3: older and who will tell you like it is, don't
Speaker 3: tell it like it is. There's something really comforting about
Speaker 3: that about a woman who will sit you down and
Speaker 3: be like that that.
Speaker 4: Does nothing but tell it how it is.
Speaker 2: These days, Yeah, but she doesn't. She doesn't criticize her peers.
Speaker 4: No, she criticizes Donald Trump.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think Maria Margleis is another one, like who
Speaker 2: is her whole person?
Speaker 1: Like I just say it, And I think that she's
Speaker 1: obviously an example of that, But I just think, I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 2: I I not that.
Speaker 1: I'm encouraging people slagging off their contemporaries. I think it's
Speaker 1: probably better to have a respectful.
Speaker 2: Silence. But it's just an interesting thought experiment.
Speaker 4: I think it's about the level of pettiness too, Like
Speaker 4: Ammartha Stewart, she's Yeah, she's occasionally said somewhat disparaging things
Speaker 4: about people who she doesn't think of as her peers
Speaker 4: or contemporaries. But there's a level of pettiness to where
Speaker 4: Brian Cox has taken it that I think you're right.
Speaker 4: I don't think women are allowed that.
Speaker 2: No, And apparently Jeremy Strong has said to him, please.
Speaker 1: Stop, please stop slagging off my method acting, and he
Speaker 1: just can't help it.
Speaker 3: I have such a soft spot for Jeremy Strong.
Speaker 1: Out loud us, thank you for listening to us.
Speaker 2: We appreciate you so much.
Speaker 1: Big shout out to a special and massive out louder
Speaker 1: Anathea this week, but we appreciate.
Speaker 2: All of you for listening.
Speaker 1: We're watching it on Apple oh yes, and watching us
Speaker 1: on Apple Video.
Speaker 2: Will be back in your ears on Friday.
Speaker 3: And can I recommend break Some Break some roles do
Speaker 3: a recommendation on a Wednesday. Sign up for the newsletter
Speaker 3: because this week you will find everything about Amelia Lester's
Speaker 3: favorite things, from the one thing she says truly changes
Speaker 3: her skin.
Speaker 5: If you're watching this, you will be very curious about that, to.
Speaker 3: The signature books she buys her friends, to the weird
Speaker 3: thing she puts on her pizza. This is where you
Speaker 3: get the download. Yes, and I think I'm up.
Speaker 1: You are we started doing these questionnaires with all the hosts,
Speaker 1: including the ones who are on the show every day,
Speaker 1: about all their favorite stuff. Questions are so good and
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Speaker 4: Bye.
Speaker 3: Mum May acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on
Speaker 3: which we've recorded this podcast.