1
00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,254
Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Meer acknowledges

2
00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,134
Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

3
00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:19,054
Speaker 1: is recorded on.

4
00:00:19,774 --> 00:00:24,294
Speaker 2: A quick heads up. Today's episode discusses distressing content. Take

5
00:00:24,334 --> 00:00:30,574
Speaker 2: care when listening. Hey, I'm table Strano. This is Mumma

6
00:00:30,654 --> 00:00:34,814
Speaker 2: Mer's twice daily news podcast, The Quickie. The childcare sector

7
00:00:34,934 --> 00:00:37,774
Speaker 2: is reeling after a Melbourne worker was charged with more

8
00:00:37,814 --> 00:00:42,694
Speaker 2: than seventy sexual offenses against babies and toddlers. The charges

9
00:00:42,694 --> 00:00:46,334
Speaker 2: stacked against the accused are disturbing, So what does this

10
00:00:46,454 --> 00:00:48,774
Speaker 2: mean for how we view other men who choose to

11
00:00:48,814 --> 00:00:52,614
Speaker 2: work in early childhood education? Before we get there, here

12
00:00:52,654 --> 00:00:55,094
Speaker 2: is Claire Murphy with the latest from The Quickie newsroom

13
00:00:55,174 --> 00:00:56,974
Speaker 2: for Thursday July three.

14
00:00:57,174 --> 00:00:59,974
Speaker 1: Thanks Taylor. Sewan Diddy Combs has been found guilty of

15
00:01:00,054 --> 00:01:03,934
Speaker 1: prostitution related offenses but cleared of more serious charges, in

16
00:01:03,934 --> 00:01:06,814
Speaker 1: a blow to prosecutors who'd urged a jury to find

17
00:01:06,854 --> 00:01:11,174
Speaker 1: him guilty of racketeering, conspiracy and sex trafficking. Combs was

18
00:01:11,214 --> 00:01:14,974
Speaker 1: convicted of transportation to engage in prostitution, but acquitted a

19
00:01:15,054 --> 00:01:18,814
Speaker 1: racketeering conspiracy and two counts of sex trafficking, a partial

20
00:01:18,854 --> 00:01:22,014
Speaker 1: win for the former music mogul. After the judge dismissed

21
00:01:22,014 --> 00:01:25,014
Speaker 1: the jury and lawyers for both sides, Combs knelt before

22
00:01:25,094 --> 00:01:27,814
Speaker 1: his chair and appeared to pray. He then rose and

23
00:01:27,854 --> 00:01:30,774
Speaker 1: faced the courtroom gallery, saying I'm going to be home soon.

24
00:01:31,134 --> 00:01:34,414
Speaker 1: I love you, thank you, I love you. Combs's family

25
00:01:34,454 --> 00:01:38,094
Speaker 1: and supporters erupted into applause and cheers. He now faces

26
00:01:38,134 --> 00:01:40,614
Speaker 1: a maximum ten year prison sentence on each of the

27
00:01:40,654 --> 00:01:44,534
Speaker 1: two prostitution counts. The acquittals on the sex trafficking counts

28
00:01:44,534 --> 00:01:47,934
Speaker 1: means he'll avoid a fifteen year mandatary minimum sentence. He

29
00:01:48,014 --> 00:01:50,734
Speaker 1: could have faced life in prison if he were convicted

30
00:01:50,774 --> 00:01:54,574
Speaker 1: on sex trafficking or racketeering conspiracy. After the jury read

31
00:01:54,614 --> 00:01:58,294
Speaker 1: it's verdict, defense lawyer Mark Agnafino asked Judge Subramanian to

32
00:01:58,334 --> 00:02:03,134
Speaker 1: release Combs on bail, which prosecutors opposed. Subromanian asked lawyers

33
00:02:03,134 --> 00:02:05,694
Speaker 1: for both science to submit written arguments on whether he

34
00:02:05,734 --> 00:02:09,254
Speaker 1: should release him by one pm. The lawyers representing Cassie

35
00:02:09,294 --> 00:02:12,294
Speaker 1: Vene m Surer, his former girlfriend who testified against him,

36
00:02:12,534 --> 00:02:15,734
Speaker 1: submitted a letter saying that miss Ventura believes mister Combs

37
00:02:15,854 --> 00:02:18,134
Speaker 1: is likely to pose a danger to the victims who

38
00:02:18,174 --> 00:02:21,614
Speaker 1: testified in this case, including herself, as well as to

39
00:02:21,654 --> 00:02:25,494
Speaker 1: the community. They are opposing his release on bail. Combs

40
00:02:25,494 --> 00:02:28,094
Speaker 1: has been held in federal lockup in Brooklyn since his

41
00:02:28,214 --> 00:02:31,734
Speaker 1: September twenty twenty four arrest. His lawyers acknowledged that the

42
00:02:31,734 --> 00:02:35,134
Speaker 1: Bad Boy Records founder, once famed for hosting lavish white

43
00:02:35,174 --> 00:02:38,174
Speaker 1: parties for the cultural elite in locales like the Hamptons

44
00:02:38,174 --> 00:02:42,174
Speaker 1: and Centrepez, was at times violent in his domestic relationships,

45
00:02:42,374 --> 00:02:46,214
Speaker 1: but they said the sexual activity described by prosecutors, including

46
00:02:46,254 --> 00:02:49,014
Speaker 1: the so called free coofs where his former girlfriend Cassie

47
00:02:49,054 --> 00:02:51,894
Speaker 1: Venturer testified that she was forced to have sex with

48
00:02:51,974 --> 00:02:56,134
Speaker 1: male sex workers for hours, was consensual and accused prosecutors

49
00:02:56,134 --> 00:02:59,614
Speaker 1: of trying to criminalize Combs's private sex life. They argue

50
00:02:59,654 --> 00:03:03,254
Speaker 1: that Venturer and Jane, a second ex girlfriend who also testified,

51
00:03:03,534 --> 00:03:06,734
Speaker 1: were strong, independent women who voluntarily took part in the

52
00:03:06,774 --> 00:03:10,334
Speaker 1: sexual performances because they wanted to please com homes. Both

53
00:03:10,374 --> 00:03:13,894
Speaker 1: women testified that they had taken part in the sexual performances,

54
00:03:13,894 --> 00:03:17,614
Speaker 1: but only after they were allegedly beaten. Combs was convicted

55
00:03:17,654 --> 00:03:21,254
Speaker 1: of transportation to engage in prostitution related to both Venturer

56
00:03:21,334 --> 00:03:25,094
Speaker 1: and Jane. Those charges required prosecutors to prove that Comes

57
00:03:25,134 --> 00:03:28,134
Speaker 1: paid the male escorts for sex and then arrange for

58
00:03:28,174 --> 00:03:31,974
Speaker 1: their travel across state lines. Judged Subramanian, will sentence Combs

59
00:03:31,974 --> 00:03:35,654
Speaker 1: at a later date. US rapper Kanye West has had

60
00:03:35,694 --> 00:03:39,614
Speaker 1: his Australian visa canceled over a controversial song referencing Adolf

61
00:03:39,734 --> 00:03:42,614
Speaker 1: Hitler in which the singer claims to be a Nazi.

62
00:03:42,894 --> 00:03:46,734
Speaker 1: Immigration officials made the decision to deny the controversial musician

63
00:03:46,854 --> 00:03:50,334
Speaker 1: access to the country after listening to his track Hyle Hitler,

64
00:03:50,614 --> 00:03:53,774
Speaker 1: which was released earlier in the year. Home Affairs Minister

65
00:03:53,854 --> 00:03:56,414
Speaker 1: Tony Burke told the ABC that West has been coming

66
00:03:56,414 --> 00:03:59,134
Speaker 1: to Australia for a long time. He's got family here

67
00:03:59,214 --> 00:04:01,734
Speaker 1: and he has made a lot of offensive comments. Mister

68
00:04:01,774 --> 00:04:04,294
Speaker 1: Burke said that his officials had looked at West's visa

69
00:04:04,414 --> 00:04:07,534
Speaker 1: again once he released the Hitler song, and he now

70
00:04:07,614 --> 00:04:10,214
Speaker 1: no longer has a valid visa in a s Australia.

71
00:04:10,374 --> 00:04:13,974
Speaker 1: West is married to Melbourne woman Biankersen, sorry his visa

72
00:04:14,054 --> 00:04:17,214
Speaker 1: had allowed him to spend time here but not perform.

73
00:04:17,734 --> 00:04:21,494
Speaker 1: Hamas has suggested it's open to a ceasefire agreement with Israel,

74
00:04:21,574 --> 00:04:24,294
Speaker 1: but is stopping short of accepting the US back proposal

75
00:04:24,294 --> 00:04:28,014
Speaker 1: announced by President Donald Trump, insisting on its long standing

76
00:04:28,054 --> 00:04:30,574
Speaker 1: position that any deal bring about an end to the

77
00:04:30,574 --> 00:04:33,774
Speaker 1: war in Gaza. Trump said on Tuesday that Israel had

78
00:04:33,814 --> 00:04:36,734
Speaker 1: agreed on terms for the sixty day ceasefire and is

79
00:04:36,894 --> 00:04:40,694
Speaker 1: urging Hamas to accept it also before conditions worsen. The

80
00:04:40,814 --> 00:04:44,054
Speaker 1: US leader has increased pressure on both parties to broker

81
00:04:44,094 --> 00:04:47,294
Speaker 1: the ceasefire and hostage agreement to bring about an end

82
00:04:47,334 --> 00:04:50,414
Speaker 1: to the war. Throughout the now nearly two year long war,

83
00:04:50,574 --> 00:04:54,374
Speaker 1: ceasefire talks have failed repeatedly over whether the war should end.

84
00:04:54,374 --> 00:04:57,134
Speaker 1: As part of any deal, Hamasa said it is willing

85
00:04:57,174 --> 00:05:00,094
Speaker 1: to free the remaining fifty hostages, fewer than half of

86
00:05:00,134 --> 00:05:02,654
Speaker 1: whom are said to be alive, in exchange for a

87
00:05:02,694 --> 00:05:05,854
Speaker 1: complete Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and an end to the war.

88
00:05:06,374 --> 00:05:09,014
Speaker 1: Israel says it will agree to end the war only

89
00:05:09,054 --> 00:05:13,334
Speaker 1: if Hamas surrenders, disarms, and exiles itself, something the group

90
00:05:13,454 --> 00:05:18,414
Speaker 1: refuses to do. Oasis has announced a thirtieth anniversary reissue

91
00:05:18,414 --> 00:05:21,294
Speaker 1: of their album What's the Story Morning Glory that will

92
00:05:21,334 --> 00:05:25,294
Speaker 1: feature new unplugged versions of classic tracks. The deluxe version

93
00:05:25,294 --> 00:05:27,734
Speaker 1: of the album will be released on October three, a

94
00:05:27,854 --> 00:05:30,894
Speaker 1: day after the brit Pop Icons released their second record

95
00:05:30,934 --> 00:05:34,374
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety five, and will feature new unplugged versions

96
00:05:34,414 --> 00:05:38,934
Speaker 1: of Cast No Shadow, Morning Glory, Wonderwall, Acquiesce and Champagne

97
00:05:38,974 --> 00:05:42,294
Speaker 1: Souper and Ova. The announcement comes just days before Oasis

98
00:05:42,334 --> 00:05:45,054
Speaker 1: play the first gig of their long awaited reunion Oasis

99
00:05:45,094 --> 00:05:48,414
Speaker 1: Live twenty five, touring Cardiff on Friday, which marks the

100
00:05:48,454 --> 00:05:51,654
Speaker 1: first time that brothers Nolan Liam Gallagher will perform together

101
00:05:51,974 --> 00:05:54,294
Speaker 1: since the band split in two thousand and nine.

102
00:05:54,814 --> 00:05:58,254
Speaker 2: Thanks Claire Next. The fall up from the alleged childcare

103
00:05:58,254 --> 00:06:07,614
Speaker 2: sex abuse case. On Tuesday, news broke that a twenty

104
00:06:07,694 --> 00:06:10,814
Speaker 2: six year old male former childcare worker had been charged

105
00:06:10,854 --> 00:06:14,414
Speaker 2: with more than seventy offences, including sexual penetration of a

106
00:06:14,494 --> 00:06:19,054
Speaker 2: child under twelve, producing child abuse material and attempted sexual

107
00:06:19,094 --> 00:06:22,934
Speaker 2: penetration of a child under twelve. The alleged victims are

108
00:06:22,974 --> 00:06:26,494
Speaker 2: eight children aged between five months and two years old.

109
00:06:26,934 --> 00:06:29,934
Speaker 2: They all attended a centre in Point Cook in Melbourne's

110
00:06:29,934 --> 00:06:35,694
Speaker 2: West between April twenty twenty two and January twenty twenty three. Yesterday,

111
00:06:35,734 --> 00:06:38,614
Speaker 2: a second man known to the twenty six year old

112
00:06:38,734 --> 00:06:42,534
Speaker 2: was also charged with forty five offences, including wraith and

113
00:06:42,694 --> 00:06:46,854
Speaker 2: possession of child abuse material. Now it's important to note

114
00:06:46,894 --> 00:06:49,414
Speaker 2: this second man does not work in a childcare center

115
00:06:49,734 --> 00:06:52,694
Speaker 2: and the connection between the two men is currently not known.

116
00:06:53,614 --> 00:06:56,454
Speaker 2: Both men, however, were charged as part of a wider

117
00:06:56,494 --> 00:07:02,174
Speaker 2: abuse investigation. The former childcare worker had worked at about

118
00:07:02,214 --> 00:07:06,334
Speaker 2: twenty centers between twenty seventeen and May this year, and

119
00:07:06,374 --> 00:07:09,174
Speaker 2: now families of more than twelve hundred children are being

120
00:07:09,254 --> 00:07:12,134
Speaker 2: urged to get their kids to undergo health screening amid

121
00:07:12,174 --> 00:07:14,934
Speaker 2: allegations that he could have exposed them to a sexually

122
00:07:14,934 --> 00:07:16,014
Speaker 2: transmitted infection.

123
00:07:17,054 --> 00:07:18,854
Speaker 1: We do want to say that this is another distressing

124
00:07:18,894 --> 00:07:22,654
Speaker 1: element to the situation and we're taking this approach as

125
00:07:22,694 --> 00:07:23,254
Speaker 1: a precaution.

126
00:07:23,974 --> 00:07:27,734
Speaker 2: Police and health authorities have contacted around twenty six hundred

127
00:07:27,734 --> 00:07:31,334
Speaker 2: families whose children attended centers where the man has worked.

128
00:07:32,334 --> 00:07:35,334
Speaker 2: The Victorian government has set up a dedicated hotline and

129
00:07:35,494 --> 00:07:40,454
Speaker 2: unlock support payments for affected families. Victorian Premiere Justinta Allen

130
00:07:40,534 --> 00:07:42,734
Speaker 2: has committed to a full review of the Working with

131
00:07:42,854 --> 00:07:45,414
Speaker 2: Children check system, and there are growing calls for a

132
00:07:45,494 --> 00:07:49,254
Speaker 2: national early childhood watchdog and even a Royal commission into

133
00:07:49,254 --> 00:07:54,174
Speaker 2: the sector. But while the focus is rightly on supporting

134
00:07:54,294 --> 00:07:57,374
Speaker 2: victims and families, there is another group feeling the impact,

135
00:07:58,054 --> 00:08:03,054
Speaker 2: male childcare educators. According to the twenty twenty four National

136
00:08:03,094 --> 00:08:07,134
Speaker 2: Early Childhood Education and Care Workforce Census, just under eight

137
00:08:07,174 --> 00:08:10,894
Speaker 2: percent of workers are men. Incidents like this send a

138
00:08:11,014 --> 00:08:13,814
Speaker 2: chill down the spine of the industry and strike fear

139
00:08:13,854 --> 00:08:17,214
Speaker 2: among many male educators that the actions of one individual

140
00:08:17,294 --> 00:08:20,694
Speaker 2: could undo years of building trust and breaking down the stigma.

141
00:08:21,534 --> 00:08:24,214
Speaker 2: The truth is, no matter how much we progress as

142
00:08:24,254 --> 00:08:26,774
Speaker 2: a society, there will still be people who take a

143
00:08:26,854 --> 00:08:30,654
Speaker 2: momentary pause when we're introduced to men in traditionally female

144
00:08:30,734 --> 00:08:37,614
Speaker 2: caregiving roles, nurses, disability carers, and even teachers. It's socially

145
00:08:37,654 --> 00:08:40,294
Speaker 2: conditioned that these jobs have been carved out in the

146
00:08:40,294 --> 00:08:43,214
Speaker 2: workforce for women to fulfill, and when we see a

147
00:08:43,214 --> 00:08:46,014
Speaker 2: man step into that space, it can trigger a subtle

148
00:08:46,254 --> 00:08:50,534
Speaker 2: or sometimes even overt discomfort that's rooted in outdated assumptions

149
00:08:50,574 --> 00:08:55,054
Speaker 2: about gender and care. But when something like this happens,

150
00:08:55,494 --> 00:08:59,494
Speaker 2: it shakes that trust that underpins the whole sector. Advocates

151
00:08:59,534 --> 00:09:03,374
Speaker 2: want a national register for early childhood staff, title rules

152
00:09:03,374 --> 00:09:07,774
Speaker 2: around supervision and photography, and a culture that encourages everyone,

153
00:09:08,094 --> 00:09:11,214
Speaker 2: regardless of gender, to speak up about anything that doesn't

154
00:09:11,254 --> 00:09:14,574
Speaker 2: feel right. The vast majority of people who work in

155
00:09:14,654 --> 00:09:17,974
Speaker 2: early childhood education do so because they cared deeply about

156
00:09:18,054 --> 00:09:21,454
Speaker 2: children's well being and development. So how are male educators

157
00:09:21,494 --> 00:09:25,134
Speaker 2: responding well? Across the country, men in early childhood are

158
00:09:25,134 --> 00:09:28,694
Speaker 2: coming together in support groups and online forums, sharing their

159
00:09:28,774 --> 00:09:32,934
Speaker 2: experiences and working out how to protect children and themselves.

160
00:09:33,454 --> 00:09:35,694
Speaker 2: To talk more on this, we're joined by early childhood

161
00:09:35,774 --> 00:09:39,494
Speaker 2: educator Nick Stevens. Nick, what have the last forty eight

162
00:09:39,494 --> 00:09:41,054
Speaker 2: hours looked and felt like for you?

163
00:09:41,614 --> 00:09:44,774
Speaker 3: I came home and I believe Tuesday night and I

164
00:09:44,854 --> 00:09:48,454
Speaker 3: started seeing the report come through. I'm part of a

165
00:09:48,494 --> 00:09:51,374
Speaker 3: men's early childhood teacher group, so there were a few

166
00:09:51,414 --> 00:09:54,254
Speaker 3: posts on there of men who were concerned about what

167
00:09:54,334 --> 00:09:57,934
Speaker 3: they'd heard and how it was going to impact them,

168
00:09:58,014 --> 00:10:00,974
Speaker 3: as well as just grief for the children that are

169
00:10:01,014 --> 00:10:04,454
Speaker 3: obviously impacted. The impacts are only kind of being felt

170
00:10:04,574 --> 00:10:08,894
Speaker 3: now as the news spreads. New regulations are coming in

171
00:10:08,894 --> 00:10:12,334
Speaker 3: about phone new and things like that. So yeah, slowly

172
00:10:12,454 --> 00:10:16,494
Speaker 3: things are moving, but it's all still very fresh.

173
00:10:16,614 --> 00:10:18,854
Speaker 2: I want to get more into the nitty gritty in

174
00:10:18,894 --> 00:10:21,894
Speaker 2: a moment, but Nick. As we know, male educators make

175
00:10:22,014 --> 00:10:25,654
Speaker 2: up such a small percentage of the early childhood workforce.

176
00:10:26,094 --> 00:10:30,134
Speaker 2: Do you think that incidents like what's allegedly happened here

177
00:10:30,494 --> 00:10:34,334
Speaker 2: potentially discourage more men from joining or even staying in

178
00:10:34,334 --> 00:10:34,974
Speaker 2: the profession.

179
00:10:35,734 --> 00:10:40,334
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, And that was the fear before this incident,

180
00:10:40,654 --> 00:10:45,254
Speaker 3: so that's even more severe now. The data suggests that

181
00:10:45,294 --> 00:10:48,854
Speaker 3: it's about three percent of early childhood educated the male.

182
00:10:49,374 --> 00:10:54,134
Speaker 3: It's not a large percentage, and this I imagine will scare

183
00:10:54,174 --> 00:10:55,414
Speaker 3: a few more away.

184
00:10:56,174 --> 00:10:58,214
Speaker 2: Can you walk us through nick for people who don't

185
00:10:58,254 --> 00:11:01,974
Speaker 2: maybe send their children to childcare or don't know the

186
00:11:02,014 --> 00:11:06,014
Speaker 2: ins and outs. What are the current protocols around security

187
00:11:06,054 --> 00:11:08,934
Speaker 2: and safety. There's been a lot of talk of standardizing

188
00:11:08,974 --> 00:11:13,094
Speaker 2: and national certain things like having a registry. What is

189
00:11:13,134 --> 00:11:14,174
Speaker 2: the current situation?

190
00:11:15,014 --> 00:11:18,294
Speaker 3: So to become an early childhood teacher now you need

191
00:11:18,414 --> 00:11:21,534
Speaker 3: some kind of either I've got an early childhood degree,

192
00:11:21,574 --> 00:11:25,254
Speaker 3: but you need at least a Certificate three TAFE course

193
00:11:25,374 --> 00:11:28,854
Speaker 3: which covers child protection. In the course, you also need

194
00:11:28,894 --> 00:11:32,254
Speaker 3: a working with Children check and a police check which

195
00:11:32,294 --> 00:11:35,134
Speaker 3: basically just checks for another criminal. We do all of that.

196
00:11:35,174 --> 00:11:39,574
Speaker 3: We do mandatory child protection training every two years. So

197
00:11:39,614 --> 00:11:43,614
Speaker 3: there's a lot that goes into the child protection side already,

198
00:11:44,014 --> 00:11:46,934
Speaker 3: but somehow people still slip through the crack.

199
00:11:47,534 --> 00:11:50,334
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of talk of overhauling the Working

200
00:11:50,374 --> 00:11:53,014
Speaker 2: with Children check. I know that about ten years ago

201
00:11:53,054 --> 00:11:56,934
Speaker 2: there was a Royal commission into institutionalized abuse, and out

202
00:11:56,974 --> 00:11:59,414
Speaker 2: of that was this call for more standardized working with

203
00:11:59,494 --> 00:12:03,454
Speaker 2: children checks and for a national database to be implemented.

204
00:12:04,174 --> 00:12:06,854
Speaker 2: Neither of those things have been implemented yet, though. Do

205
00:12:06,894 --> 00:12:09,534
Speaker 2: you think that something like that would help set us

206
00:12:09,654 --> 00:12:12,134
Speaker 2: up so that incidents like this won't happen again?

207
00:12:12,894 --> 00:12:15,294
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean the thing with the Working with Children

208
00:12:15,574 --> 00:12:17,854
Speaker 3: check is educated are a little bit in the dark

209
00:12:18,214 --> 00:12:21,134
Speaker 3: about what they're actually checking. I guess we just get

210
00:12:21,334 --> 00:12:23,254
Speaker 3: back and approval and that's the end of it. So

211
00:12:23,414 --> 00:12:25,494
Speaker 3: I don't know too much about what the process is

212
00:12:25,694 --> 00:12:29,014
Speaker 3: like and if these people that are have offended in

213
00:12:29,054 --> 00:12:33,694
Speaker 3: the past. Regulations around who comes into centers is obviously important,

214
00:12:34,174 --> 00:12:36,734
Speaker 3: but I think you may also just have people that

215
00:12:37,374 --> 00:12:40,134
Speaker 3: the first time they perpetrate is in a childcare center.

216
00:12:40,334 --> 00:12:42,334
Speaker 3: You know, the last few cases have been young men.

217
00:12:42,694 --> 00:12:46,134
Speaker 3: These aren't men that have abused their whole lives. These

218
00:12:46,134 --> 00:12:48,934
Speaker 3: are young men who maybe this is their first time,

219
00:12:49,094 --> 00:12:51,574
Speaker 3: So checks aren't going to stop those men from coming in.

220
00:12:51,654 --> 00:12:55,294
Speaker 3: I think it's got to be safety practices within services,

221
00:12:55,374 --> 00:12:57,534
Speaker 3: but all of it's important. You need all of those

222
00:12:57,814 --> 00:12:58,694
Speaker 3: barriers in place.

223
00:12:59,414 --> 00:13:02,534
Speaker 2: Parents around the country now will potentially have that moment

224
00:13:02,534 --> 00:13:05,214
Speaker 2: of hesitation when they drop their kids off to daycare

225
00:13:05,414 --> 00:13:08,814
Speaker 2: or school. What do you want parents to know about

226
00:13:08,854 --> 00:13:11,854
Speaker 2: the role and and I guess the value of male educators.

227
00:13:12,134 --> 00:13:14,934
Speaker 2: It's not just that it's a representation thing of having

228
00:13:15,014 --> 00:13:17,974
Speaker 2: men in a classroom or in a childcare center. What

229
00:13:18,174 --> 00:13:21,454
Speaker 2: kind of things should parents remember on the good side

230
00:13:21,494 --> 00:13:22,574
Speaker 2: of having male teachers.

231
00:13:23,054 --> 00:13:27,814
Speaker 3: I think personally, male educators bring so much to this

232
00:13:28,294 --> 00:13:31,854
Speaker 3: profession and it's something I'm really passionate about. We bring

233
00:13:31,974 --> 00:13:36,334
Speaker 3: unique attributes to workplaces and for some children that particularly

234
00:13:36,374 --> 00:13:40,014
Speaker 3: the children I work with, I'm their only consistent male

235
00:13:40,094 --> 00:13:44,534
Speaker 3: figure in their lives. There's so many positives of males

236
00:13:45,014 --> 00:13:48,934
Speaker 3: in the profession. But I guess the unfortunate, sad reality

237
00:13:49,174 --> 00:13:52,254
Speaker 3: is that they're just the risks when you drop your

238
00:13:52,334 --> 00:13:56,614
Speaker 3: child off in a facility because you're not there. I

239
00:13:56,654 --> 00:13:58,774
Speaker 3: don't know how to wrestle with that at the moment.

240
00:13:59,174 --> 00:14:00,494
Speaker 3: You know, if I was speaking to a parent. I

241
00:14:00,574 --> 00:14:03,134
Speaker 3: can't assure a parent dropping their child off at a

242
00:14:03,934 --> 00:14:07,454
Speaker 3: random service that their child is one hundred percent safe

243
00:14:07,534 --> 00:14:11,974
Speaker 3: because we don't know every educator intimately, and there are

244
00:14:12,094 --> 00:14:16,014
Speaker 3: times where there's going to be an educator one on

245
00:14:16,014 --> 00:14:18,854
Speaker 3: one with your child, and a lot of it is

246
00:14:18,894 --> 00:14:22,134
Speaker 3: based on trust, and I'm someone that really holds that

247
00:14:22,214 --> 00:14:24,814
Speaker 3: trust sacred. I know that parents are trusting me when

248
00:14:24,854 --> 00:14:27,334
Speaker 3: they drop their child off, and I hold that very

249
00:14:27,854 --> 00:14:31,134
Speaker 3: very close to my heart that obviously other people don't.

250
00:14:31,534 --> 00:14:35,414
Speaker 3: I guess my reassurance for parents would be that the large, large,

251
00:14:35,534 --> 00:14:38,534
Speaker 3: large percentage of children has great days of care. And

252
00:14:38,574 --> 00:14:43,134
Speaker 3: this is a tiny percentage, but it's a percentage. Yeah.

253
00:14:43,334 --> 00:14:46,574
Speaker 2: You've mentioned that male educators are coming together to support

254
00:14:46,574 --> 00:14:50,254
Speaker 2: each other and discuss solutions. What kind of conversations have

255
00:14:50,374 --> 00:14:51,494
Speaker 2: you been having and seeing.

256
00:14:52,174 --> 00:14:55,774
Speaker 3: Some of the conversations are around surveillance. So our men's

257
00:14:55,774 --> 00:14:57,974
Speaker 3: group met up about a month ago when we spoke

258
00:14:58,014 --> 00:15:02,374
Speaker 3: about how we feel comfortable working at services where there's

259
00:15:02,414 --> 00:15:05,814
Speaker 3: cameras around. It protects us as well. It protects male

260
00:15:05,934 --> 00:15:10,054
Speaker 3: educators from allegations that are false. Of the men that

261
00:15:10,094 --> 00:15:14,294
Speaker 3: I had worked with had false allegations. So cameras allow

262
00:15:14,694 --> 00:15:17,494
Speaker 3: for a little bit of safety around that, and just

263
00:15:17,854 --> 00:15:21,974
Speaker 3: that men are scared, they're worried about being falsely accused,

264
00:15:22,174 --> 00:15:25,174
Speaker 3: and we try and reassure each other around that and

265
00:15:25,334 --> 00:15:28,534
Speaker 3: talk about how to keep each other safe, ensuring that

266
00:15:28,574 --> 00:15:31,814
Speaker 3: you're supervised in bathrooms and things like that.

267
00:15:32,254 --> 00:15:35,214
Speaker 2: It's a difficult balance to navigate right now. I mean,

268
00:15:35,254 --> 00:15:37,774
Speaker 2: on one hand, there's the safety in the well being

269
00:15:37,894 --> 00:15:41,854
Speaker 2: of children. That's obviously crucial and fundamental to ensure that

270
00:15:41,894 --> 00:15:44,734
Speaker 2: they grow and learn in a really safe environment. But

271
00:15:44,774 --> 00:15:47,374
Speaker 2: at the same time, there is that real risk of

272
00:15:47,454 --> 00:15:50,294
Speaker 2: driving male educators out of the job and out of

273
00:15:50,334 --> 00:15:52,894
Speaker 2: that space. And Nick, I know that you, in particular,

274
00:15:52,934 --> 00:15:55,294
Speaker 2: you've been doing work in that space, like you just mentioned,

275
00:15:55,334 --> 00:15:59,014
Speaker 2: having those conversations off the back of this horrific news

276
00:15:59,054 --> 00:16:00,934
Speaker 2: this week. Where do we go from here? What kind

277
00:16:00,934 --> 00:16:02,454
Speaker 2: of needs to happen next? Do you think?

278
00:16:03,094 --> 00:16:06,254
Speaker 3: I think there needs to be a conversation about how

279
00:16:06,294 --> 00:16:09,814
Speaker 3: this happens. A lot of the reaction has been from

280
00:16:09,894 --> 00:16:12,814
Speaker 3: good services is how did that happen? With all the

281
00:16:12,934 --> 00:16:16,374
Speaker 3: supervision we have and often the amount of adults around,

282
00:16:16,734 --> 00:16:19,574
Speaker 3: how to incidences like this happened? So I think we

283
00:16:19,654 --> 00:16:25,294
Speaker 3: need to look at our practices around supervision and educators,

284
00:16:25,334 --> 00:16:29,614
Speaker 3: all educators, men and women being alone with children during

285
00:16:29,654 --> 00:16:32,254
Speaker 3: happy changes. I think it's just bad practice to have

286
00:16:32,414 --> 00:16:35,374
Speaker 3: someone by themselves with a child while they do their

287
00:16:35,414 --> 00:16:40,654
Speaker 3: happy So specifically, i'd want conversations around that, conversations already

288
00:16:40,894 --> 00:16:45,574
Speaker 3: happening around phone us and how we manage technology. Yeah,

289
00:16:45,694 --> 00:16:50,094
Speaker 3: I think just looking at it from a child's safety approach,

290
00:16:50,174 --> 00:16:54,534
Speaker 3: how do we ensure that all children are safe? And unfortunately,

291
00:16:54,854 --> 00:16:58,894
Speaker 3: assuming that the colleagues you're working with have the potential

292
00:16:59,014 --> 00:17:04,214
Speaker 3: to be perpetrators. It's a really awkward subject. But if

293
00:17:04,254 --> 00:17:08,134
Speaker 3: we assume that the people we work with could do harm,

294
00:17:08,334 --> 00:17:10,854
Speaker 3: then we protect your lies. I think we need to

295
00:17:10,894 --> 00:17:15,574
Speaker 3: have tough, awkward and comfortable conversations to keep children safe.

296
00:17:16,774 --> 00:17:19,094
Speaker 2: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with

297
00:17:19,174 --> 00:17:21,214
Speaker 2: us today. If you or someone you know needs to

298
00:17:21,254 --> 00:17:23,334
Speaker 2: speak to someone off the back of this episode, you

299
00:17:23,374 --> 00:17:26,614
Speaker 2: can contact the National Sexual Abuse and Redress Support Service.

300
00:17:26,854 --> 00:17:29,974
Speaker 2: They're on one eight hundred two one one zero two eight,

301
00:17:30,694 --> 00:17:33,214
Speaker 2: or you can contact one eight hundred respect. That's the

302
00:17:33,334 --> 00:17:37,574
Speaker 2: National Domestic Family and Sexual Violence Counseling Service. They're on

303
00:17:37,574 --> 00:17:40,614
Speaker 2: one eight hundred seven three seven seven three to two.

304
00:17:41,294 --> 00:17:44,734
Speaker 2: The Quickie is produced by me Taylor Strano and Clare Murphy,

305
00:17:44,854 --> 00:17:48,374
Speaker 2: with audio production by Lou Hill. Muma Mia Studios are

306
00:17:48,374 --> 00:17:51,454
Speaker 2: styled with furniture from Fenton and Fenton. Visit Fenton and

307
00:17:51,534 --> 00:17:53,214
Speaker 2: Fenton dot com dot au